Guest guest Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 There were 2 major IVF studies done Paulus in 2002 and Dieterle in 2006 I believe the Paulus study is the one that Randine Lewis?bases her ?book on From my notes Paulus says 25 min B4 use CV6, SP8, LR3, GV20, ST29 and Shen Men right , Zhi Gong right , Neifenmi left , Naodian left?(all auric) after transfer ST 36, SP 6, SP10, LI 4 and switch sides of the auric the Dieterle study is B4 transfer? CV 4 and 6? ST 29, PC6, SP 8 and 10? and after is LI4, SP6, ST 36, KI3, LR3 you can google Paulus and IVF? or Dieterle and IVF and it should come up if you want to read the whole articles Good luck Beth Beth Grubb Licensed Acupuncturist Certified Animal Acupuncturist 410-591-2644 beth www.bethgrubb.com Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine Fri, Sep 11, 2009 8:20 am Digest Number 3179 Herbs, Acupuncture, Theory, Case Studies Messages In This Digest (9 Messages) 1a. IVF Acupuncture Brian Harasha 1b. Re: IVF Acupuncture Anne Crowley 1c. Re: IVF Acupuncture Ariel Solomon, L.Ac. 1d. Re: IVF Acupuncture Angela Pfaffenberger, PH.D. 2a. Re: Clinical Integration Course with Lonny Jarrett 2010 Mercurius Trismegistus 3.1. Re: acupuncture for MD course Hugo Ramiro 3.2. Re: acupuncture for MD course 4a. Online Practice Tests? ariaksatri2 4b. Re: Online Practice Tests? View All Topics | Create New Topic Messages 1a. IVF Acupuncture Posted by: " Brian Harasha " bharasha ? ucityfun Thu Sep?10,?2009 8:41?am (PDT) This will be my first time working alongside an MD at a fertility clinic. A client requested I do 'IVF Acupuncture' on her before and after the transfer. She wants 'her uterus relaxed and receptive' before transfer (she had this done before with success and that is how it was described to her) and then the needles are switched around right after transfer to encourage implantation. I have seen a few ideas on this but was wondering if there is a standard protocol (point combination) that everyone uses. Unfortunately she called me so late there is no time to get a pattern differentiation on her or even interview/diagnostics. Thanks for last minute help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Beth & all: The patient is referring to the Paulus protocol, but Beth you have one point incorrect, which is a common mistake, and one I made myself when I first read the study. The protocol for before transfer does NOT contain CV 6, the point is PC 6. When the article was printed the point was referred to as: " Cx 6 " but then followed by " Neiguan. " When I first read it, I thought the " x " was just a typo and used CV 6. Upon reexamination, I paid more attention to the pinyin translation, and realized my error, and that PC 6 was the intended point. Thanks to all my teachers who made me memorize pinyin names of points! So the points are: Paulus Protocol: Acupuncture was performed 25 minutes before and 25 minutes after IVF Before: PC 6, SP 8, LR 3, GV 20, ST 29, Auricular shenmen, zhigong on right, Neifenmi (endocrine), naodian (master cerebral) on left After: ST 36, SP 6, SP 10, LI 4, Auricular: shenmen, zhigong (uterus) on left, Neifenmi (endocrine), naodian (master cerebral) on right This protocol is the one most familiar to Western treatment centers, and the one they are most likely wanting you to use. Question: why this protocol? Answer: it's the one that held up in repetitive trials. Question: does this mean other points are not as effective? Answer: NO. One of the other posts on this subject refereced some other point choices that may have been based in part on Stener-Victorin's 1996 study (only 13 subjects) that introduced the idea of using acupuncture prior to IVF. Her protocol was done in the 4 weeks leading up to an IVF procedure, and used bi-weekly acupuncture on 4 points with estim: Stener-Victorin Protocol: BL23- Bl 28, 100 Hz, 0.5 ms duration, low intensity BL 57-SP 6, 2 Hz, 0.5 ms duration, enough to cause local muscle contraction Stener-Victorin believes that Estim applied to acupuncture inhibits the sympathetic nervous system and therefore dilates blood vessels.(This is the basic thesis for her most recent work on acupuncture and PCOS published this summer.) She showed that the pulsatility index, a measure of uterine artery blood flow resistance, was reduced in her subjects. She chose her points to be those that innervated the L 1-S 3 spinal segments and the distal dermatome, because the uterine innervation was at this level. I have clinically repeated her results of dramatically lowering the PI index, even without the estim, sometimes with just needles and/or moxa, and sometimes not using these exact points, so it may be acupuncture itself that creates this effect. Among the points that I believe are crucial for this " Western " effect and for their TCM energetics are BL 23 & SP 6. So, as always, treat the pattern... In light of the above studies, and all our TCM background in how you can best regulate menses and conception, I to do a minimum of weekly acupuncture for 4-6 weeks prior to IVF, not just the one-shot Paulus protocol whenever possible. As I have posted previously, I don't do any acupuncture on IVF patients after their transfer until about week 5 of the pregnancy. I would consider using the second half of the Paulus protocol if I were working in the IVF clinic, and could do it immediately after the transfer, but otherwise no acupuncture. At week 5 of the pregnancy, when I do resume weekly treatment, I use only a few points to regulate. I resume the use of a more " normal " number of pts at about week 10. Due to the higher incidence of metabolic disorders in IVF pregnancies, for any IVF patient with a high PI, I want to continue treatment through early placentation (until about week 14-16) because a high PI is associated with problems in later pregnancy. Acupuncture (and Chinese herbs) is the only treatment modality (western included) that can lower a PI at this critical time. Hope this helps. If you have more time, you can do some weekly treatments. Valerie Hobbs Chinese Medicine , Beth Grubb <sg1532 wrote: > > > There were 2 major IVF studies done > > Paulus in 2002 and Dieterle in 2006 > > I believe the Paulus study is the one that Randine Lewis?bases her ?book on > > From my notes Paulus says 25 min B4 use CV6, SP8, LR3, GV20, ST29 and Shen Men right , Zhi Gong right , Neifenmi left , Naodian left?(all auric) > > after transfer ST 36, SP 6, SP10, LI 4 and switch sides of the auric > > the Dieterle study is B4 transfer? CV 4 and 6? ST 29, PC6, SP 8 and 10? and after is LI4, SP6, ST 36, KI3, LR3 > > > > you can google Paulus and IVF? or Dieterle and IVF and it should come up if you want to read the whole articles > > Good luck > > Beth > > > > Beth Grubb > Licensed Acupuncturist > Certified Animal Acupuncturist > 410-591-2644 > beth > www.bethgrubb.com > > > > > IVF Acupuncture > > Posted by: " Brian Harasha " bharasha ? ucityfun > > Thu Sep?10,?2009 8:41?am (PDT) > > > > This will be my first time working alongside an MD at a fertility clinic. A > client requested I do 'IVF Acupuncture' on her before and after the > transfer. She wants 'her uterus relaxed and receptive' before transfer (she > had this done before with success and that is how it was described to her) > and then the needles are switched around right after transfer to encourage > implantation. I have seen a few ideas on this but was wondering if there is > a standard protocol (point combination) that everyone uses. Unfortunately > she called me so late there is no time to get a pattern differentiation on > her or even interview/diagnostics. > > Thanks for last minute help. > > Posted by: " Angela Pfaffenberger, PH.D. " angelapfa ? apfaffenberger > > Thu Sep?10,?2009 9:40?am (PDT) > > > > My understanding was that the acupuncture helps the client relax and keep the stress hormones under control. I use St 36, K 3, Yin Tang, ear shen men, ht 7 ( or PC 6), and occ Liv 3. I think this protocol is linked to Eastern Harmony Clinic. > > You usually don't meet the MD but I found that it pays to befriend all the office staff, arrive early, introduce yourself to EVERYBODY, hang out and talk afterwards and give everyone your card. I often got calls from clients saying " Someone at the clinic recommended you. " Some clinics also have a roster of Acs they call when the client wants acupuncture, you can ask about that and see if you can join it. > PS. I charge more for these visits because I found I usually have to be there in the morning, but it is not infrequent that I have to wait, and I don't want to hassle the client with anything. I usually ask $175. > > Regards, > Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D. > > angelapfa > > www.InnerhealthSalem.com > > Phone: 503 364 3022 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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