Guest guest Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 I'm agreeding with you, completely, dear John. Maybe could be helpful, too, treating hui yin point, CV 1, not only because of his name (one of the names), but is a ghost (GUI) point, too (and somewhat near to the right concept of a " virgin " ). You can treat it with moxa, maybe better, up to drain down the " overfloating " Shen. Suggestion in sending him to a curandero, if possible, is a very good one. _____ Da: Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine Per conto di john kokko Inviato: sabato 22 agosto 2009 17.09 A: Chinese Medicine Oggetto: Re: Salvia overdose If it's Salvia Divinorum, honestly I would send your patient to a Mazateca curandero/ curandera in Mexico who sees this kind of condition. At least you can see what the treatment is. It's a pity that people are taking these " spirit herbs " without guidance. If they don't have a guide, they will get lost, which is what happened to your patient. The plant can create dis-association from the body, which is why many take it in the first place. It seems as though your patient never re-associated (5 souls did not re-connect), so if anything, you could try working with the outer back shu points and all of the other general protocols. According to some, the " spirit " of the Salvia divinorum is like a virgin woman.... she doesn't like the " spot light " , grows in shaded areas and prefers low-light, which is why it's ironic that she's getting so much public attention. Humans have a biological need for initiation and transformation. Unfortunately, in our culture, we rarely have this.... except for the institutional holidays and what religion allows for. That's why there's so much to learn from the dying traditions. People know this, yet they don't want to take a plane down to the jungles. Instead, they experiment and get led to the " jungles of our minds " without a map or machete. K On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 6:00 AM, Bob Linde, AP, Herbalist < boblindeherbalist@ <boblindeherbalist%40> > wrote: > > > Hi May, > It is important to know what type of salvia...it could be anything from Dan > Shen to Salvia Divinorum. It may effect the treatment. > > Be well, > Bob > Robert Linde, AP, RH > Professional Herbalists Training Program > Acupuncture & Herbal Therapies > 901 Central Ave > St. Petersburg, FL 33705 > www.acuherbals.com > 727-551-0857 > > --- On Sat, 8/22/09, maylucken <maylucken@qi- <maylucken%40qi-clinic.com> clinic.com<maylucken%40qi-clinic.com>> > wrote: > > maylucken <maylucken@qi- <maylucken%40qi-clinic.com> clinic.com <maylucken%40qi-clinic.com>> > Salvia overdose > Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40> Chinese_Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40. com> > Saturday, August 22, 2009, 4:11 AM > > > > > Hi everyone. > I haven't seen this patient yet but thought i'll ask on the forum for > anyone's advice or experience with this kind of thing. > He basically overdosed on Salvia back in June. He was using it to explore > shamanic visions. > He is back home but has still a number of severe mental and physical > symptoms. He can't walk or drive. Has no balance. keeps crashing into > things. An aversion to people. Problems with self cleanliness. Got very > scared while he was using Salvia. > Sorry not much of a history but was wandering if there is that was used > traditionally for this? > > Thanks > May > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 The delicateness that everyone is treating this situation is noble and admirable. However, using cv1 in a person that is a bit unhinged is more risky than in a normal patient, but, see what presents. But to ground the qi, to me, sounds like a good plan. Listen. Look. Crazy is good to an extant, and maybe called for. But if I was unfamiliar with acupuncture, and was in the aftermath of a psychic experience, someone wanting to put a needle underneath my balls might be a but much. That's more for intimates. Any wise 'touch' and compassionate safe space may be a refuge for them to gather. One needle, and let them talk or be. Just like any emotionally acute thing, make them feel safe. --- On Sat, 8/22/09, <saudelligabriele wrote: <saudelligabriele R: Salvia overdose Chinese Medicine Saturday, August 22, 2009, 12:34 PM I'm agreeding with you, completely, dear John. Maybe could be helpful, too, treating hui yin point, CV 1, not only because of his name (one of the names), but is a ghost (GUI) point, too (and somewhat near to the right concept of a " virgin " ). You can treat it with moxa, maybe better, up to drain down the " overfloating " Shen. Suggestion in sending him to a curandero, if possible, is a very good one. _____ Da: Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine [Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine ] Per conto di john kokko Inviato: sabato 22 agosto 2009 17.09 A: Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine Oggetto: Re: Salvia overdose If it's Salvia Divinorum, honestly I would send your patient to a Mazateca curandero/ curandera in Mexico who sees this kind of condition. At least you can see what the treatment is. It's a pity that people are taking these " spirit herbs " without guidance. If they don't have a guide, they will get lost, which is what happened to your patient. The plant can create dis-association from the body, which is why many take it in the first place. It seems as though your patient never re-associated (5 souls did not re-connect), so if anything, you could try working with the outer back shu points and all of the other general protocols. According to some, the " spirit " of the Salvia divinorum is like a virgin woman.... she doesn't like the " spot light " , grows in shaded areas and prefers low-light, which is why it's ironic that she's getting so much public attention. Humans have a biological need for initiation and transformation. Unfortunately, in our culture, we rarely have this.... except for the institutional holidays and what religion allows for. That's why there's so much to learn from the dying traditions. People know this, yet they don't want to take a plane down to the jungles. Instead, they experiment and get led to the " jungles of our minds " without a map or machete. K On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 6:00 AM, Bob Linde, AP, Herbalist < boblindeherbalist@ <boblindeher balist%40. com> > wrote: > > > Hi May, > It is important to know what type of salvia...it could be anything from Dan > Shen to Salvia Divinorum. It may effect the treatment. > > Be well, > Bob > Robert Linde, AP, RH > Professional Herbalists Training Program > Acupuncture & Herbal Therapies > 901 Central Ave > St. Petersburg, FL 33705 > www.acuherbals. com > 727-551-0857 > > --- On Sat, 8/22/09, maylucken <maylucken@qi- <maylucken% 40qi-clinic. com> clinic.com<maylucke n%40qi-clinic. com>> > wrote: > > maylucken <maylucken@qi- <maylucken% 40qi-clinic. com> clinic.com <maylucken%40qi- clinic.com> > > Salvia overdose > Traditional_ <Traditional _Chinese_ Medicine% 40. com> Chinese_Medicine<Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine %40. com> > Saturday, August 22, 2009, 4:11 AM > > > > > Hi everyone. > I haven't seen this patient yet but thought i'll ask on the forum for > anyone's advice or experience with this kind of thing. > He basically overdosed on Salvia back in June. He was using it to explore > shamanic visions. > He is back home but has still a number of severe mental and physical > symptoms. He can't walk or drive. Has no balance. keeps crashing into > things. An aversion to people. Problems with self cleanliness. Got very > scared while he was using Salvia. > Sorry not much of a history but was wandering if there is that was used > traditionally for this? > > Thanks > May > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 May, on wikipedia, there is mention of people becoming very scared due to using unusually high concentrations of the salvia divinorum in extracts... again... people tampering with the herbs in non-traditional protocols. Did your patient use one of the high concentration extracts? If so, is the " spirit " of the herb unhappy? Yes... best to go to a curandera/o. K On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 9:34 AM, < saudelligabriele wrote: > > > I'm agreeding with you, completely, dear John. Maybe could be helpful, too, > treating hui yin point, CV 1, not only because of his name (one of the > names), but is a ghost (GUI) point, too (and somewhat near to the right > concept of a " virgin " ). You can treat it with moxa, maybe better, up to > drain down the " overfloating " Shen. Suggestion in sending him to a > curandero, if possible, is a very good one. > > > > _____ > > Da: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > [Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medicin\ e%40>] > Per conto di john > kokko > Inviato: sabato 22 agosto 2009 17.09 > A: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > Oggetto: Re: Salvia overdose > > If it's Salvia Divinorum, honestly I would send your patient to a Mazateca > curandero/ curandera > in Mexico who sees this kind of condition. > At least you can see what the treatment is. > > It's a pity that people are taking these " spirit herbs " without guidance. > If they don't have a guide, they will get lost, which is what happened to > your patient. > The plant can create dis-association from the body, which is why many take > it in the first place. > It seems as though your patient never re-associated (5 souls did not > re-connect), > so if anything, you could try working with the outer back shu points and > all of the other general protocols. > > According to some, the " spirit " of the Salvia divinorum is like a virgin > woman.... > she doesn't like the " spot light " , grows in shaded areas and prefers > low-light, > which is why it's ironic that she's getting so much public attention. > > Humans have a biological need for initiation and transformation. > Unfortunately, in our culture, > we rarely have this.... except for the institutional holidays and what > religion allows for. > That's why there's so much to learn from the dying traditions. > People know this, yet they don't want to take a plane down to the jungles. > Instead, they experiment and get led to the " jungles of our minds " without > a > map or machete. > > K > > On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 6:00 AM, Bob Linde, AP, Herbalist < > boblindeherbalist@ <boblindeherbalist%40<boblindeherbalist%2540>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi May, > > It is important to know what type of salvia...it could be anything from > Dan > > Shen to Salvia Divinorum. It may effect the treatment. > > > > Be well, > > Bob > > Robert Linde, AP, RH > > Professional Herbalists Training Program > > Acupuncture & Herbal Therapies > > 901 Central Ave > > St. Petersburg, FL 33705 > > www.acuherbals.com > > 727-551-0857 > > > > --- On Sat, 8/22/09, maylucken <maylucken@qi- > <maylucken%40qi-clinic.com <maylucken%2540qi-clinic.com>> > clinic.com<maylucken%40qi-clinic.com>> > > wrote: > > > > maylucken <maylucken@qi- <maylucken%40qi-clinic.com<maylucken%2540qi-clinic.com> > > > clinic.com <maylucken%40qi-clinic.com>> > > Salvia overdose > > Traditional_ <Chinese Medicine%40<Traditional_Chinese_Medic\ ine%2540> > > > Chinese_Medicine <Chinese_Medicine%40> > <Chinese Medicine%40. > com> > > Saturday, August 22, 2009, 4:11 AM > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone. > > I haven't seen this patient yet but thought i'll ask on the forum for > > anyone's advice or experience with this kind of thing. > > He basically overdosed on Salvia back in June. He was using it to explore > > shamanic visions. > > He is back home but has still a number of severe mental and physical > > symptoms. He can't walk or drive. Has no balance. keeps crashing into > > things. An aversion to people. Problems with self cleanliness. Got very > > scared while he was using Salvia. > > Sorry not much of a history but was wandering if there is that was used > > traditionally for this? > > > > Thanks > > May > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 Hi John, Yes I think it was one of the high concentration extracts. My understanding is that he took a lot more than the dose that was recommended to him. His wife (that was watching over him while he was doing this) said that he collapsed immediately. He said that he totally dissociated from his body and was scared of what he saw. I haven¹t got all the details yet but will hopefully speak to him today. The ³spirit² of the herb unhappy? From what I have been reading the purpose of those herbs in a shamanic setting within a community was/is to go in that state and provide spiritual connection and guidance to the people around you. To be taken with pure intention and conviction of heart to the spiritual journey. Not sure what that means. Is it in the pure discovery sense or in the pure purposeful for others way? He is quite a famous, huge ego, intelligent artist and I think all this journey is for him only, not others. Also the ego dissolution that one experience might have been too much. He lives in England so curandera/o might be too far. May On 23/08/2009 06:44, " " <johnkokko wrote: > > > > > May, > on wikipedia, there is mention of people becoming very scared due to using > unusually high concentrations > of the salvia divinorum in extracts... again... people tampering with the > herbs in non-traditional protocols. > Did your patient use one of the high concentration extracts? > > If so, is the " spirit " of the herb unhappy? > Yes... best to go to a curandera/o. > > K > > On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 9:34 AM, < > saudelligabriele <saudelligabriele%40tiscali.it> > wrote: > >> > >> > >> > I'm agreeding with you, completely, dear John. Maybe could be helpful, too, >> > treating hui yin point, CV 1, not only because of his name (one of the >> > names), but is a ghost (GUI) point, too (and somewhat near to the right >> > concept of a " virgin " ). You can treat it with moxa, maybe better, up to >> > drain down the " overfloating " Shen. Suggestion in sending him to a >> > curandero, if possible, is a very good one. >> > >> > >> > >> > _____ >> > >> > Da: Chinese Medicine >> <Chinese Medicine%40> >> <Chinese Medicine%40> >> > [Chinese Medicine >> <Chinese Medicine%40> >> <Chinese Medicine%40>] >> > Per conto di john >> > kokko >> > Inviato: sabato 22 agosto 2009 17.09 >> > A: Chinese Medicine >> <Chinese Medicine%40> >> <Chinese Medicine%40> >> > Oggetto: Re: Salvia overdose >> > >> > If it's Salvia Divinorum, honestly I would send your patient to a Mazateca >> > curandero/ curandera >> > in Mexico who sees this kind of condition. >> > At least you can see what the treatment is. >> > >> > It's a pity that people are taking these " spirit herbs " without guidance. >> > If they don't have a guide, they will get lost, which is what happened to >> > your patient. >> > The plant can create dis-association from the body, which is why many take >> > it in the first place. >> > It seems as though your patient never re-associated (5 souls did not >> > re-connect), >> > so if anything, you could try working with the outer back shu points and >> > all of the other general protocols. >> > >> > According to some, the " spirit " of the Salvia divinorum is like a virgin >> > woman.... >> > she doesn't like the " spot light " , grows in shaded areas and prefers >> > low-light, >> > which is why it's ironic that she's getting so much public attention. >> > >> > Humans have a biological need for initiation and transformation. >> > Unfortunately, in our culture, >> > we rarely have this.... except for the institutional holidays and what >> > religion allows for. >> > That's why there's so much to learn from the dying traditions. >> > People know this, yet they don't want to take a plane down to the jungles. >> > Instead, they experiment and get led to the " jungles of our minds " without >> > a >> > map or machete. >> > >> > K >> > >> > On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 6:00 AM, Bob Linde, AP, Herbalist < >> > boblindeherbalist@ >> <boblindeherbalist%40<boblindeherbalist%2540>> >> > > wrote: >> > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Hi May, >>> > > It is important to know what type of salvia...it could be anything from >> > Dan >>> > > Shen to Salvia Divinorum. It may effect the treatment. >>> > > >>> > > Be well, >>> > > Bob >>> > > Robert Linde, AP, RH >>> > > Professional Herbalists Training Program >>> > > Acupuncture & Herbal Therapies >>> > > 901 Central Ave >>> > > St. Petersburg, FL 33705 >>> > > www.acuherbals.com >>> > > 727-551-0857 >>> > > >>> > > --- On Sat, 8/22/09, maylucken <maylucken@qi- >> > <maylucken%40qi-clinic.com <maylucken%2540qi-clinic.com>> >> > clinic.com<maylucken%40qi-clinic.com>> >>> > > wrote: >>> > > >>> > > maylucken <maylucken@qi- >>> <maylucken%40qi-clinic.com<maylucken%2540qi-clinic.com> >>> > > >> > clinic.com <maylucken%40qi-clinic.com>> >>> > > Salvia overdose >>> > > Traditional_ >>> <Chinese Medicine%40<Traditional_Chinese_M >>> edicine%2540> >>> > > >> > Chinese_Medicine >> <Chinese_Medicine%40> >> <Chinese_Medicine%40> >> > <Chinese Medicine%40. >> > com> >>> > > Saturday, August 22, 2009, 4:11 AM >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Hi everyone. >>> > > I haven't seen this patient yet but thought i'll ask on the forum for >>> > > anyone's advice or experience with this kind of thing. >>> > > He basically overdosed on Salvia back in June. He was using it to >>> explore >>> > > shamanic visions. >>> > > He is back home but has still a number of severe mental and physical >>> > > symptoms. He can't walk or drive. Has no balance. keeps crashing into >>> > > things. An aversion to people. Problems with self cleanliness. Got very >>> > > scared while he was using Salvia. >>> > > Sorry not much of a history but was wandering if there is that was used >>> > > traditionally for this? >>> > > >>> > > Thanks >>> > > May >>> > > >>> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 Hi John, Yes I think it was one of the high concentration extracts. My understanding is that he took a lot more than the dose that was recommended to him. His wife (that was watching over him while he was doing this) said that he collapsed immediately. He said that he totally dissociated from his body and was scared of what he saw. I haven¹t got all the details yet but will hopefully speak to him today. The ³spirit² of the herb unhappy? From what I have been reading the purpose of those herbs in a shamanic setting within a community was/is to go in that state and provide spiritual connection and guidance to the people around you. To be taken with pure intention and conviction of heart to the spiritual journey. Not sure what that means. Is it in the pure discovery sense or in the pure purposeful for others way? He is quite a famous, huge ego, intelligent artist and I think all this journey is for him only, not others. Also the ego dissolution that one experience might have been too much. He lives in England so curandera/o might be too far. May On 23/08/2009 06:44, " " <johnkokko wrote: > > > > > May, > on wikipedia, there is mention of people becoming very scared due to using > unusually high concentrations > of the salvia divinorum in extracts... again... people tampering with the > herbs in non-traditional protocols. > Did your patient use one of the high concentration extracts? > > If so, is the " spirit " of the herb unhappy? > Yes... best to go to a curandera/o. > > K > > On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 9:34 AM, < > saudelligabriele <saudelligabriele%40tiscali.it> > wrote: > >> > >> > >> > I'm agreeding with you, completely, dear John. Maybe could be helpful, too, >> > treating hui yin point, CV 1, not only because of his name (one of the >> > names), but is a ghost (GUI) point, too (and somewhat near to the right >> > concept of a " virgin " ). You can treat it with moxa, maybe better, up to >> > drain down the " overfloating " Shen. Suggestion in sending him to a >> > curandero, if possible, is a very good one. >> > >> > >> > >> > _____ >> > >> > Da: Chinese Medicine >> <Chinese Medicine%40> >> <Chinese Medicine%40> >> > [Chinese Medicine >> <Chinese Medicine%40> >> <Chinese Medicine%40>] >> > Per conto di john >> > kokko >> > Inviato: sabato 22 agosto 2009 17.09 >> > A: Chinese Medicine >> <Chinese Medicine%40> >> <Chinese Medicine%40> >> > Oggetto: Re: Salvia overdose >> > >> > If it's Salvia Divinorum, honestly I would send your patient to a Mazateca >> > curandero/ curandera >> > in Mexico who sees this kind of condition. >> > At least you can see what the treatment is. >> > >> > It's a pity that people are taking these " spirit herbs " without guidance. >> > If they don't have a guide, they will get lost, which is what happened to >> > your patient. >> > The plant can create dis-association from the body, which is why many take >> > it in the first place. >> > It seems as though your patient never re-associated (5 souls did not >> > re-connect), >> > so if anything, you could try working with the outer back shu points and >> > all of the other general protocols. >> > >> > According to some, the " spirit " of the Salvia divinorum is like a virgin >> > woman.... >> > she doesn't like the " spot light " , grows in shaded areas and prefers >> > low-light, >> > which is why it's ironic that she's getting so much public attention. >> > >> > Humans have a biological need for initiation and transformation. >> > Unfortunately, in our culture, >> > we rarely have this.... except for the institutional holidays and what >> > religion allows for. >> > That's why there's so much to learn from the dying traditions. >> > People know this, yet they don't want to take a plane down to the jungles. >> > Instead, they experiment and get led to the " jungles of our minds " without >> > a >> > map or machete. >> > >> > K >> > >> > On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 6:00 AM, Bob Linde, AP, Herbalist < >> > boblindeherbalist@ >> <boblindeherbalist%40<boblindeherbalist%2540>> >> > > wrote: >> > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Hi May, >>> > > It is important to know what type of salvia...it could be anything from >> > Dan >>> > > Shen to Salvia Divinorum. It may effect the treatment. >>> > > >>> > > Be well, >>> > > Bob >>> > > Robert Linde, AP, RH >>> > > Professional Herbalists Training Program >>> > > Acupuncture & Herbal Therapies >>> > > 901 Central Ave >>> > > St. Petersburg, FL 33705 >>> > > www.acuherbals.com >>> > > 727-551-0857 >>> > > >>> > > --- On Sat, 8/22/09, maylucken <maylucken@qi- >> > <maylucken%40qi-clinic.com <maylucken%2540qi-clinic.com>> >> > clinic.com<maylucken%40qi-clinic.com>> >>> > > wrote: >>> > > >>> > > maylucken <maylucken@qi- >>> <maylucken%40qi-clinic.com<maylucken%2540qi-clinic.com> >>> > > >> > clinic.com <maylucken%40qi-clinic.com>> >>> > > Salvia overdose >>> > > Traditional_ >>> <Chinese Medicine%40<Traditional_Chinese_M >>> edicine%2540> >>> > > >> > Chinese_Medicine >> <Chinese_Medicine%40> >> <Chinese_Medicine%40> >> > <Chinese Medicine%40. >> > com> >>> > > Saturday, August 22, 2009, 4:11 AM >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Hi everyone. >>> > > I haven't seen this patient yet but thought i'll ask on the forum for >>> > > anyone's advice or experience with this kind of thing. >>> > > He basically overdosed on Salvia back in June. He was using it to >>> explore >>> > > shamanic visions. >>> > > He is back home but has still a number of severe mental and physical >>> > > symptoms. He can't walk or drive. Has no balance. keeps crashing into >>> > > things. An aversion to people. Problems with self cleanliness. Got very >>> > > scared while he was using Salvia. >>> > > Sorry not much of a history but was wandering if there is that was used >>> > > traditionally for this? >>> > > >>> > > Thanks >>> > > May >>> > > >>> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 May, a flight to Mexico is not very far for a famous and rich artist. Why did he take a high concentration high dose extract? What kind of pride and ambition would make someone want to fly to heaven with waxed wings? Opium is a chinese herb (Ying su ke), but becomes very toxic at concentrated doses. Ma huang is one of the most important Chinese herbs, but is harder to get than hard drugs. The reason that Salvia divinorum will probably become illegal is that at the root of all of this is disrespect for the traditional knowledge about the plants and the plant " spirit " itself. Alchemy has been turned on its head. What once was a science of union has become a path of dis-association. K On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 9:20 AM, May Lucken-Ardjomande < maylucken wrote: > > > Hi John, > > Yes I think it was one of the high concentration extracts. My understanding > is that he took a lot more than the dose that was recommended to him. > His wife (that was watching over him while he was doing this) said that he > collapsed immediately. He said that he totally dissociated from his body > and > was scared of what he saw. I haven¹t got all the details yet but will > hopefully speak to him today. > > The ³spirit² of the herb unhappy? From what I have been reading the purpose > of those herbs in a shamanic setting within a community was/is to go in > that > state and provide spiritual connection and guidance to the people around > you. To be taken with pure intention and conviction of heart to the > spiritual journey. Not sure what that means. Is it in the pure discovery > sense or in the pure purposeful for others way? He is quite a famous, huge > ego, intelligent artist and I think all this journey is for him only, not > others. Also the ego dissolution that one experience might have been too > much. > > He lives in England so curandera/o might be too far. > > May > > > On 23/08/2009 06:44, " " <johnkokko<johnkokko%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > May, > > on wikipedia, there is mention of people becoming very scared due to > using > > unusually high concentrations > > of the salvia divinorum in extracts... again... people tampering with the > > herbs in non-traditional protocols. > > Did your patient use one of the high concentration extracts? > > > > If so, is the " spirit " of the herb unhappy? > > Yes... best to go to a curandera/o. > > > > K > > > > On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 9:34 AM, < > > saudelligabriele <saudelligabriele%40tiscali.it> < > saudelligabriele%40tiscali.it <saudelligabriele%2540tiscali.it>> > wrote: > > > >> > > >> > > >> > I'm agreeding with you, completely, dear John. Maybe could be helpful, > too, > >> > treating hui yin point, CV 1, not only because of his name (one of the > >> > names), but is a ghost (GUI) point, too (and somewhat near to the > right > >> > concept of a " virgin " ). You can treat it with moxa, maybe better, up > to > >> > drain down the " overfloating " Shen. Suggestion in sending him to a > >> > curandero, if possible, is a very good one. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _____ > >> > > >> > Da: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > >> <Chinese Medicine%40<Traditional_Chinese_Medic\ ine%2540> > > > >> <Chinese Medicine%40> > >> > [Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medicin\ e%40> > >> <Chinese Medicine%40<Traditional_Chinese_Medic\ ine%2540> > > > >> <Chinese Medicine%40>] > >> > Per conto di john > >> > kokko > >> > Inviato: sabato 22 agosto 2009 17.09 > >> > A: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > >> <Chinese Medicine%40<Traditional_Chinese_Medic\ ine%2540> > > > >> <Chinese Medicine%40> > >> > Oggetto: Re: Salvia overdose > >> > > >> > If it's Salvia Divinorum, honestly I would send your patient to a > Mazateca > >> > curandero/ curandera > >> > in Mexico who sees this kind of condition. > >> > At least you can see what the treatment is. > >> > > >> > It's a pity that people are taking these " spirit herbs " without > guidance. > >> > If they don't have a guide, they will get lost, which is what happened > to > >> > your patient. > >> > The plant can create dis-association from the body, which is why many > take > >> > it in the first place. > >> > It seems as though your patient never re-associated (5 souls did not > >> > re-connect), > >> > so if anything, you could try working with the outer back shu points > and > >> > all of the other general protocols. > >> > > >> > According to some, the " spirit " of the Salvia divinorum is like a > virgin > >> > woman.... > >> > she doesn't like the " spot light " , grows in shaded areas and prefers > >> > low-light, > >> > which is why it's ironic that she's getting so much public attention. > >> > > >> > Humans have a biological need for initiation and transformation. > >> > Unfortunately, in our culture, > >> > we rarely have this.... except for the institutional holidays and what > >> > religion allows for. > >> > That's why there's so much to learn from the dying traditions. > >> > People know this, yet they don't want to take a plane down to the > jungles. > >> > Instead, they experiment and get led to the " jungles of our minds " > without > >> > a > >> > map or machete. > >> > > >> > K > >> > > >> > On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 6:00 AM, Bob Linde, AP, Herbalist < > >> > boblindeherbalist@ > >> <boblindeherbalist%40 <boblindeherbalist%2540> > <boblindeherbalist%2540>> > >> > > wrote: > >> > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > Hi May, > >>> > > It is important to know what type of salvia...it could be anything > from > >> > Dan > >>> > > Shen to Salvia Divinorum. It may effect the treatment. > >>> > > > >>> > > Be well, > >>> > > Bob > >>> > > Robert Linde, AP, RH > >>> > > Professional Herbalists Training Program > >>> > > Acupuncture & Herbal Therapies > >>> > > 901 Central Ave > >>> > > St. Petersburg, FL 33705 > >>> > > www.acuherbals.com > >>> > > 727-551-0857 > >>> > > > >>> > > --- On Sat, 8/22/09, maylucken <maylucken@qi- > >> > <maylucken%40qi-clinic.com <maylucken%2540qi-clinic.com><maylucken% > 2540qi-clinic.com>> > >> > clinic.com<maylucken%40qi-clinic.com>> > >>> > > wrote: > >>> > > > >>> > > maylucken <maylucken@qi- > >>> <maylucken%40qi-clinic.com <maylucken%2540qi-clinic.com> > <maylucken%2540qi-clinic.com> > >>> > > > >> > clinic.com <maylucken%40qi-clinic.com>> > >>> > > Salvia overdose > >>> > > Traditional_ > >>> <Chinese Medicine%40<Traditional_Chinese_Medic\ ine%2540> > <Traditional_Chinese_M > >>> edicine%2540> > >>> > > > >> > Chinese_Medicine <Chinese_Medicine%40> > >> <Chinese_Medicine%40<Chinese_Medicine%2540> > > > >> <Chinese_Medicine%40> > > >> > <Chinese Medicine%40. > >> > com> > >>> > > Saturday, August 22, 2009, 4:11 AM > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > Hi everyone. > >>> > > I haven't seen this patient yet but thought i'll ask on the forum > for > >>> > > anyone's advice or experience with this kind of thing. > >>> > > He basically overdosed on Salvia back in June. He was using it to > >>> explore > >>> > > shamanic visions. > >>> > > He is back home but has still a number of severe mental and > physical > >>> > > symptoms. He can't walk or drive. Has no balance. keeps crashing > into > >>> > > things. An aversion to people. Problems with self cleanliness. Got > very > >>> > > scared while he was using Salvia. > >>> > > Sorry not much of a history but was wandering if there is that was > used > >>> > > traditionally for this? > >>> > > > >>> > > Thanks > >>> > > May > >>> > > > >>> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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