why do acidic foods increase smoking cravings?

[Guest guest]

quite right.

Any excess pathogen stagnates the Qi - this is after all illness!

And stagnant Qi tends to affect the Liver Zang. Ergo stagnant Qi from Heat can

easily stagnate the Liver.

 

Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro <subincor

wrote:

>

> Hi Kath:

>

> No, I am not a 5-e practitioner, and the mechanism I am describing is found

in TCM. Work with me here: what happens when you take someone with a harmonious

internal state and start overdosing them with korean ginseng?

>

> Hugo

>

>

> ________________________________

> Hugo Ramiro

> http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

> http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

>

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> " "

> Chinese Medicine

> Wednesday, 17 June, 2009 15:59:41

> Re: why do acidic foods increase smoking cravings?

>

>

>

>

>

> hugo:

>

> are you a 5E practitioner? maybe that's why we're not in sync.

>

> how would you explain the tcm mech of the shi heat --> liv qi stag?

>

> liv qi stag causes H, this would be depp H. but i'm missing the mechanism

> involved in H --> liv qi to stag.

>

> k

>

> On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor > wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Hi Kath:

> >

> > I'm not sure where we're having our glitch...

> >

> > Is it not possible to give someone hot medicinals, and as a consequence of

> > the excess heat for the liver to become constrained? Then once the liver is

> > constrained it generates its own heat in addition?

> >

> > ?

> >

> > It's happened to me a couple of times. At least I think it has. Addition of

> > excess to the stomach, and resultant liver constraint (as determined by

> > pulses and tongue) followed by heat. What am I missing here?

> >

> >

> > Hugo

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Hugo Ramiro

> > http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com

> > http://www.chinesem edicaltherapies. org

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > " " <acukath (AT) gmail (DOT) com <acukath%40gmail. com>>

> > <Traditional_

Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

> > Wednesday, 17 June, 2009 10:26:27

> > Re: why do acidic foods increase smoking cravings?

> >

> > hugo:

> >

> > this is interesting to explore.

> >

> > according to your original equation:

> >

> > red meat, caffeine and alcohol = heat = stress or in TCM liver qi stag =

> > cravings for smoking

> >

> > i'm not seeing the tcm logic in warm foods (heat) --> liver qi stag

> >

> > liv qi stag can cause heat, but i'm not seeing mechanism of the reverse:

> > heat will cause liver qi stag.

> >

> > so it seems to me that the mechanism here is warm foods --> heat -->

> > aggravates shen --> smoking cravings

> >

> > your thoughts?

> >

> > k

> >

> > On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 7:50 PM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor > wrote:

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hi Kath:

> > >

> > > --Kath-

> > >

> > > i think of stress causing heat, though, rather than the reverse (heat

> > > causing stress).

> > > ---

> > >

> > > This is my fault for not using CM terminology in the first place: stress

> > =

> > > liv qi constraint.

> > >

> > > Liver Qi Constraint can lead to heat. But heat can cause Liver Qi

> > > Constraint. Normal person + too much ginseng = Liver Qi Constraint, as an

> > > example.

> > >

> > > --Kath-

> > > i get the sugar crash --> stress from a western point of view. in tcm

> > terms

> > > i don't see a stress --> heat--> shen aggravation cycle here. rather it

> > > seems to me that the sugar crash --> qi xu.

> > > ---

> > >

> > > Again, my fault. Sugar crash = Sp Qi deficiency. Sp Qi deficiency = Liver

> > > Qi Constraint via Earth not nourishing Wood.

> > >

> > > No heat necessary in this second equation, just depletion.

> > >

> > > Hugo

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > Hugo Ramiro

> > > http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com

> > > http://www.chinesem edicaltherapies. org

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > " " <acukath (AT) gmail (DOT) com <acukath%40gmail.

> > com>>

> > > <Traditional_

> > Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

> >

> > > Tuesday, 16 June, 2009 18:17:48

> > > Re: why do acidic foods increase smoking cravings?

> > >

> > >

> > > hugo:

> > >

> > > i like your explanations here. esp. the tomato/heartburn (st stag) blurb.

> > > and i'm with you on the acidity issue. i've always had difficulty buying

> > > into the acid/alkaline cycle. i know many folks that are invested in the

> > > principle, so i try to keep an open mind. but it's never felt legitimate

> > to

> > > me. (no offence meant to those who tx according to this principle).

> > >

> > > the heat --> stress is the correct tcm approach to the issue.

> > >

> > > i think of stress causing heat, though, rather than the reverse (heat

> > > causing stress). in this case we are seeing fire or yin fire aggravating

> > > the shen.

> > >

> > > i get the sugar crash --> stress from a western point of view. in tcm

> > terms

> > > i don't see a stress --> heat--> shen aggravation cycle here. rather it

> > > seems to me that the sugar crash --> qi xu.

> > >

> > > your thoughts?

> > >

> > > kath

> > >

> > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor >

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hi Kath, my take on it is that

> > > > red meat, caffeine and alcohol = heat = stress = cravings for smoking

> > > > and

> > > > orange = (too) sweet = sugar crash = stress = cravings for a smoke.

> > > >

> > > > I absolutely do not buy the oranges and tomatoes (and other fruits and

> > > > vegetables we know to be cold) are acidic and lead to acidic

> > conditions.

> > > > Even chemistry doesn't support the idea.

> > > > The acids in lemons, tomatoes, oranges and vinegar are not strong

> > acids,

> > > > they're weak acids. They don't burn skin or clothes, right? The acids

> > > > contained in these foods don't even last long. The weak acid breaks

> > down

> > > to

> > > > co2 and water very quickly and easily.

> > > > All these people saying, " oh yeah, tomatoes are acidic, I totally got

> > > > heartburn after eating tomatoes the other day " should be saying

> > " tomatoes

> > > > are cold and cause obstruction causing me to feel unwell in the stomach

> > > > which I immediately call heartburn even though it feels nothing like a

> > > burn "

> > > > or alternatively " I got real heartburn after I ate tomatoes the other

> > day

> > > > because the tomatoes are cold and easily cause obstruction triggering

> > my

> > > > already existing stomach heat " .

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > > Hugo

> > > >

> > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > Hugo Ramiro

> > > > http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com

> > > > http://www.chinesem edicaltherapies. org

> > > >

> > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > " " <acukath (AT) gmail (DOT) com <acukath%40gmail.

> > > com>>

> > > > PCOM Alumni <alumni@pacificcoll e ge.edu <alumni%40pacificco

> >

> > > llege.edu> >

> > > > Cc: TCM List <traditional_ chinese_medicine @.

> > > com<traditional_ chinese_medicine %40. com>

> > >

> > > > >

> > > > Tuesday, 16 June, 2009 15:07:56

> > > >

> > > > why do acidic foods increase smoking cravings?

> > > >

> > > > i read many years ago that eliminating red meat, caffeine, ehol and oj

> > > > helps

> > > > reduce smoking cravings. in looking at the list, it seems to be an

> > acidic

> > > > group. i'm wondering about the mechanism of acidity triggering

> > cravings.

> > > > does anyone have an explanation for this?

> > > >

> > > > k

> > > >

> > > > --

> > > >

> > > > Oriental Medicine

> > > > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

> > > >

> > > > Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality:

> > > > http://acukath. blogspot. com/

> > > >

> > > > Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints

> > > > Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist

> > > > Available at Asheville Center for :

> > > > www.FlyingDragonLin iment.com

> > > >

> > > > Greenlife Grocery - Asheville, NC

> > > >

> > > > and from the following supply companies:

> > > > Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown

> > > > https://www. kamwo.com/ shop/product. php?productid= 17442 & cat=

> > 0 & page=1

> > > >

> > > > Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC

> > > > http://www.goldenne edleonline. com/index. php?page= categories &

> > > category=

> > > > 14 & vendor= & product= 5554 & pg=

> > > >

> > > > Asheville Center For

> > > > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

> > > > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

> > > > kbartlett@Acupunctu reAsheville. com

> > > > www.AcupunctureAshe ville.com

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

I was replying to the statement that tomatoes, and by the way its

usually only tomato sauces, cause " heart burn " because they are cold.

If coldness was the mechanism then other cold foods should also cause

this symptom, they do not. While its tempting to explain this by

flavor it does not hold because for each of the flavor explanation you

can find many of examples of the same flavor combinations that does

not cause the symptom.

 

 

 

400 29th St. Suite 419

Oakland Ca 94609

 

 

 

alonmarcus

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

 Hi Margi and all!

 

--Margi-

I've always understood the sweet taste is sedative, strengthening, harmonizing,

warming, moistening and relaxing. It's easy to see why many gravitate towards

the instant fix of many modern processed foods and beverages.

---

 

 Sweet is a tricky one because it does all the above, and engenders dampness as

well. Catch-22.

 

--Margi-

Is the root of the desire to smoke, something to do with an emptiness of the

Lung...? Does warming and filling the Lung - even with the poisons of a

cigarette - engender a feeling of less-emptiness; transient though it may be?

Throw in all the modern sugars and carbs, and the Spleen is weighed down and

blocked with glugg.

Taiyin struggles doubly in the sweet-toothed, anxious, hot, dried out smoker.

---

 

 That's very poetic. Lung/Metal follows Spleen/Earth in the generative cycle.

Positive generation involves the Lung receiving nutritive Qi from the Spleen.

Negative generation involves the Lung receiving dampness from the Spleen.

 I've seen a lot of smoker patients present with weak spleens that generate a

lot of damp and phlegm, which the smoking (kind of) keeps at bay.

 It is also improtant to note that cigarettes do contain many non-toxic

ingredients that confuse the issue further by providing pleasant or even healthy

effects - mint, gentiana, anise, coconut oil, sage, including the tobacco

itself, etc.

 

 Thanks,

 Hugo

 

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , yehuda frischman

<@.. .> wrote:

>

> Yes, but consider�that �any sweet�fruit juice is concentrated fructose,

and sugar�generates dampness,�especially in liquid�form,

�dampness�encumbers the spleen which�engengers stagnation which in turn

creates heat.� �

>

 

I've always understood the sweet taste is sedative, strengthening, harmonizing,

warming, moistening and relaxing. It's easy to see why many gravitate towards

the instant fix of many modern processed foods and beverages.

Each of the flavours is essential to good health. As ever, it's down to balance,

season, environment, constitution, and how we receive the flavours.

 

Acid - alkaline theories of foodstuffs; I just don't 'get' this, probably

because I'm not a naturopath. However, I do know that the 'normal' range of pH

7.35-7.45 in a human is a relatively tiny range. Acidosis left untreated, will

kill someone - the ketoacidotic coma of an undiagnosed diabetic is an example;

those with low oxygen levels in their blood, will also trend towards acidic,

rather than alkaline.

 

I am amused by the current fad [in my country anyway] of inducing keto-acidosis

in the early stages of certain weight loss programs, often conducted by

naturopaths. When is acidosis 'healthy', and when is it not?

 

I'm also intrigued by Andrea Beth's comments here:

" My observations of smokers, is that they tend to smoke when they are

" stimulated " - stressed, overwhelmed, etc. They perceive it producing

relaxation, even though nicotine itself is a stimulant. It might be that acidic

foods also happen to be stimulating, and this could be another explanation. "

 

This sounds like the homeopathic theory of 'like curing like', and makes a lot

of sense to me.

 

As for TCM and smoking?

Is the root of the desire to smoke, something to do with an emptiness of the

Lung...? Does warming and filling the Lung - even with the poisons of a

cigarette - engender a feeling of less-emptiness; transient though it may be?

Throw in all the modern sugars and carbs, and the Spleen is weighed down and

blocked with glugg.

Taiyin struggles doubly in the sweet-toothed, anxious, hot, dried out smoker.

 

Margi

http://margihealing .wordpress. com/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

 Hi Alon, if you are replying to me then you are misreading my statement.

 

 Tomatoes do not cause heartburn.

 

 Hugo

 

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

alon marcus <alonmarcus

Chinese Medicine

Thursday, 18 June, 2009 12:39:33

Re: why do acidic foods increase smoking cravings?

 

 

 

 

 

I was replying to the statement that tomatoes, and by the way its

usually only tomato sauces, cause " heart burn " because they are cold.

If coldness was the mechanism then other cold foods should also cause

this symptom, they do not. While its tempting to explain this by

flavor it does not hold because for each of the flavor explanation you

can find many of examples of the same flavor combinations that does

not cause the symptom.

 

 

 

400 29th St. Suite 419

Oakland Ca 94609

 

 

www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com

alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) net

 

 

[Guest guest]

The Basic Questions chap 74 " All that rebels and rushes upward is

associated with fire "

and " Vomiting and acid reflux are associated with heat. "

 

For my patients who suffer from heartburn (acid reflux), even a small amount

of tomatoes

or hot peppers will cause a lot of pain.

 

K

 

 

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote:

 

>

>

> Hi Alon, if you are replying to me then you are misreading my statement.

>

> Tomatoes do not cause heartburn.

>

> Hugo

>

> ________________________________

> Hugo Ramiro

> http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

> http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

>

> ________________________________

> alon marcus <alonmarcus <alonmarcus%40wans.net>>

> To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> Thursday, 18 June, 2009 12:39:33

> Re: why do acidic foods increase smoking cravings?

>

>

> I was replying to the statement that tomatoes, and by the way its

> usually only tomato sauces, cause " heart burn " because they are cold.

> If coldness was the mechanism then other cold foods should also cause

> this symptom, they do not. While its tempting to explain this by

> flavor it does not hold because for each of the flavor explanation you

> can find many of examples of the same flavor combinations that does

> not cause the symptom.

>

>

>

> 400 29th St. Suite 419

> Oakland Ca 94609

>

>

> www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com

> alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) net

>

>

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro <subincor

wrote:

>

HI Hugo and All

 

Hugo wrote:

" Lung/Metal follows Spleen/Earth in the generative cycle. Positive generation

involves the Lung receiving nutritive Qi from the Spleen. Negative generation

involves the Lung receiving dampness from the Spleen.

I've seen a lot of smoker patients present with weak spleens that generate a lot

of damp and phlegm, which the smoking (kind of) keeps at bay.

It is also improtant to note that cigarettes do contain many non-toxic

ingredients that confuse the issue further by providing pleasant or even healthy

effects - mint, gentiana, anise, coconut oil, sage, including the tobacco

itself,�etc. "

 

 

 

I feel you've nailed it with your comments there Hugo... it's evident that

people dependent upon cigarette smoking, are attempting to self-medicate the

patterns of disharmony which:

a] influenced their initial decision to smoke

b] become evident in the shorter term

c] become evident in the longer term

 

There have always been botanical substances burned to produce therapeutic smoke,

in the traditional medicines of many cultures.

 

But getting back to the oranges and tomatoes and meat... does the mind/body

crave these as a result of the imbalances, or are there in fact flavours and

substances in these foods which might help to restore balance and better

nutrition?

Tomatoes and oranges contain anti-oxidants, and the Spleen does like a little

animal protein.

 

 

Margi

[Guest guest]

But getting back to the oranges and tomatoes and meat... does the mind/body

crave these as a result of the imbalances?

 

Yes.

 

--- On Thu, 6/18/09, margi.macdonald <margi.macdonald wrote:

 

margi.macdonald <margi.macdonald

Re: why do acidic foods increase smoking cravings?

Chinese Medicine

Thursday, June 18, 2009, 6:16 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , Hugo Ramiro

<subincor@.. .> wrote:

 

>

 

HI Hugo and All

 

 

 

Hugo wrote:

 

" Lung/Metal follows Spleen/Earth in the generative cycle. Positive generation

involves the Lung receiving nutritive Qi from the Spleen. Negative generation

involves the Lung receiving dampness from the Spleen.

 

I've seen a lot of smoker patients present with weak spleens that generate a lot

of damp and phlegm, which the smoking (kind of) keeps at bay.

 

It is also improtant to note that cigarettes do contain many non-toxic

ingredients that confuse the issue further by providing pleasant or even healthy

effects - mint, gentiana, anise, coconut oil, sage, including the tobacco

itself,�etc. "

 

 

 

I feel you've nailed it with your comments there Hugo... it's evident that

people dependent upon cigarette smoking, are attempting to self-medicate the

patterns of disharmony which:

 

a] influenced their initial decision to smoke

 

b] become evident in the shorter term

 

c] become evident in the longer term

 

 

 

There have always been botanical substances burned to produce therapeutic smoke,

in the traditional medicines of many cultures.

 

 

 

But getting back to the oranges and tomatoes and meat... does the mind/body

crave these as a result of the imbalances, or are there in fact flavours and

substances in these foods which might help to restore balance and better

nutrition?

 

Tomatoes and oranges contain anti-oxidants, and the Spleen does like a little

animal protein.

 

 

 

Margi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

 Hi John!

 

 I will contest that as I have not noticed the same thing clinically - meaning

specifically that tomatoes seem to behave with a cold energetic causing

obstruction which then aggravates the heartburn. The reported sensations differ

between heartburn pain from tomatoes versus heartburn pain from hot foods.

 

 That said, Mike did mention that even a little bit of acidity may cause

" threshold " patients to go over the edge, and this may be the case, especially

in the stomach itself, although I restate my point that acidic *vegetables and

fruit* stop being acid very fast. I should mention that the only reason I bring

up the weak acids / strong acids argument is to counter the non-CM

idea which demands that foods which we know (in general) to create cooling

effects to be classed as acidifying or " hot " based on a theoretical

consideration rather than the observation of a real person.

 

 This whole problem is similar in my mind to a case from yesterday, where a 45

yr old lady with some qi deficiency and yin deficiency was treated with

bio-identical hormones  by a gynecologist (who apparently has written books on

the subject). The hormones were DHEA and progesterone and testosterone. The

treatment started a year ago, and this lady's assessment is that she has not

seen much change except that she is now growing hair in the areas where she

applies the testosterone cream.

 

 I had ignored the hormones because I can't counter this gynecologist but over

the last month it's been obvious that at least the testosterone is aggravating

her hot flashes since she seems to respond at half strength.

 

 The point being that this lady's bloodwork shows low testosterone levels and

according to this gynecologist's best practices she is receiving the medication

indicated but there is clearly no good effect. This post I guess is about

keeping our nose to our ten questions, 8 principles and so forth.

 

 Thanks John (you often have useful quotations from the classics) and everyone

for keeping this forum so useful and lively, looking forward to the next volley.

 

 Hugo

 

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

<johnkokko

Chinese Medicine

Thursday, 18 June, 2009 14:00:39

Re: Re: why do acidic foods increase smoking cravings?

 

 

 

 

 

The Basic Questions chap 74 " All that rebels and rushes upward is

associated with fire "

and " Vomiting and acid reflux are associated with heat. "

 

For my patients who suffer from heartburn (acid reflux), even a small amount

of tomatoes

or hot peppers will cause a lot of pain.

 

K

 

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor > wrote:

 

>

>

> Hi Alon, if you are replying to me then you are misreading my statement.

>

> Tomatoes do not cause heartburn.

>

> Hugo

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> Hugo Ramiro

> http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com

> http://www.chinesem edicaltherapies. org

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> alon marcus <alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) net <alonmarcus% 40wans.net> >

> <Traditional_

Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

> Thursday, 18 June, 2009 12:39:33

> Re: why do acidic foods increase smoking cravings?

>

>

> I was replying to the statement that tomatoes, and by the way its

> usually only tomato sauces, cause " heart burn " because they are cold.

> If coldness was the mechanism then other cold foods should also cause

> this symptom, they do not. While its tempting to explain this by

> flavor it does not hold because for each of the flavor explanation you

> can find many of examples of the same flavor combinations that does

> not cause the symptom.

>

>

>

> 400 29th St. Suite 419

> Oakland Ca 94609

>

>

> www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com

> alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) net

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hugo,

Maybe the best way to go about this would be to look at the foods that

create heartburn

and see what they have in common from a Chinese medicine perspective...

 

*Fruit*• Orange juice

• Lemon

• Lemonade

• Grapefruit juice

• Cranberry juice

• Tomato *Vegetables* • Mashed potatoes

• French fries

• Onion, raw *Meat* • Ground beef, chuck

• Marbled sirloin

• Chicken nuggets

• Buffalo wings *Dairy* • Sour cream

• Milk shake

• Ice cream

• Cottage cheese, regular *Grains* • Macaroni and cheese

• Spaghetti with sauce *Beverages* • Liquor

• Wine

• Coffee, decaffeinated or regular

• Tea, decaffeinated or regular *Fats / Oils* • Salad dressing, creamy

• Salad dressing, oil & vinegar *Sweets / Desserts* • Butter cookie,

high-fat

• Brownie

• Chocolate

• Doughnut

• Corn chips

• Potato chips, regular

Looks like acidic fruits (sour) and greasy (damp forming) foods.

 

The sour taste can aggravate the LV and hold phlegm

and damp forming foods can stagnate the Qi mechanism (ST Qi rebellion) and

further damage SP Qi...

so LV attacking with a SP/ST disharmony?

 

 

 

K

 

 

 

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 7:07 PM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote:

 

>

>

> Hi John!

>

> I will contest that as I have not noticed the same thing clinically -

> meaning specifically that tomatoes seem to behave with a cold energetic

> causing obstruction which then aggravates the heartburn. The reported

> sensations differ between heartburn pain from tomatoes versus heartburn pain

> from hot foods.

>

> That said, Mike did mention that even a little bit of acidity may cause

> " threshold " patients to go over the edge, and this may be the case,

> especially in the stomach itself, although I restate my point that acidic

> *vegetables and fruit* stop being acid very fast. I should mention that the

> only reason I bring up the weak acids / strong acids argument is to counter

> the non-CM idea which demands that foods which we know (in

> general) to create cooling effects to be classed as acidifying or " hot "

> based on a theoretical consideration rather than the observation of a real

> person.

>

> This whole problem is similar in my mind to a case from yesterday, where a

> 45 yr old lady with some qi deficiency and yin deficiency was treated with

> bio-identical hormones by a gynecologist (who apparently has written books

> on the subject). The hormones were DHEA and progesterone and testosterone.

> The treatment started a year ago, and this lady's assessment is that she has

> not seen much change except that she is now growing hair in the areas where

> she applies the testosterone cream.

>

> I had ignored the hormones because I can't counter this gynecologist but

> over the last month it's been obvious that at least the testosterone is

> aggravating her hot flashes since she seems to respond at half strength.

>

> The point being that this lady's bloodwork shows low testosterone levels

> and according to this gynecologist's best practices she is receiving the

> medication indicated but there is clearly no good effect. This post I guess

> is about keeping our nose to our ten questions, 8 principles and so forth.

>

> Thanks John (you often have useful quotations from the classics) and

> everyone for keeping this forum so useful and lively, looking forward to the

> next volley.

>

>

> Hugo

>

> ________________________________

> Hugo Ramiro

> http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

> http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

>

> ________________________________

> <johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com>>

> To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> Thursday, 18 June, 2009 14:00:39

> Re: Re: why do acidic foods increase smoking cravings?

>

> The Basic Questions chap 74 " All that rebels and rushes upward is

> associated with fire "

> and " Vomiting and acid reflux are associated with heat. "

>

> For my patients who suffer from heartburn (acid reflux), even a small

> amount

> of tomatoes

> or hot peppers will cause a lot of pain.

>

> K

>

> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor > wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Hi Alon, if you are replying to me then you are misreading my statement.

> >

> > Tomatoes do not cause heartburn.

> >

> > Hugo

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Hugo Ramiro

> > http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com

> > http://www.chinesem edicaltherapies. org

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > alon marcus <alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) net <alonmarcus% 40wans.net> >

> > <Traditional_

> Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

> > Thursday, 18 June, 2009 12:39:33

> > Re: why do acidic foods increase smoking cravings?

> >

> >

> > I was replying to the statement that tomatoes, and by the way its

> > usually only tomato sauces, cause " heart burn " because they are cold.

> > If coldness was the mechanism then other cold foods should also cause

> > this symptom, they do not. While its tempting to explain this by

> > flavor it does not hold because for each of the flavor explanation you

> > can find many of examples of the same flavor combinations that does

> > not cause the symptom.

> >

> >

> >

> > 400 29th St. Suite 419

> > Oakland Ca 94609

> >

> >

> > www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com

> > alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) net

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Absolutely.  This is what Heiner speaks about in his article on craving and Gu

pathogens.  Great article. Read it.  (I can send you the link if you can't find

it via a google search)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Thu, 6/18/09, mystir <ykcul_ritsym wrote:

 

 

mystir <ykcul_ritsym

Re: why do acidic foods increase smoking cravings?

Chinese Medicine

Thursday, June 18, 2009, 6:11 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But getting back to the oranges and tomatoes and meat... does the mind/body

crave these as a result of the imbalances?

 

Yes.

 

--- On Thu, 6/18/09, margi.macdonald <margi.macdonald@ gmail.com> wrote:

 

margi.macdonald <margi.macdonald@ gmail.com>

Re: why do acidic foods increase smoking cravings?

 

Thursday, June 18, 2009, 6:16 PM

 

Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , Hugo Ramiro <subincor@..

..> wrote:

 

>

 

HI Hugo and All

 

Hugo wrote:

 

" Lung/Metal follows Spleen/Earth in the generative cycle. Positive generation

involves the Lung receiving nutritive Qi from the Spleen. Negative generation

involves the Lung receiving dampness from the Spleen.

 

I've seen a lot of smoker patients present with weak spleens that generate a lot

of damp and phlegm, which the smoking (kind of) keeps at bay.

 

It is also improtant to note that cigarettes do contain many non-toxic

ingredients that confuse the issue further by providing pleasant or even healthy

effects - mint, gentiana, anise, coconut oil, sage, including the tobacco

itself,�etc. "

 

I feel you've nailed it with your comments there Hugo... it's evident that

people dependent upon cigarette smoking, are attempting to self-medicate the

patterns of disharmony which:

 

a] influenced their initial decision to smoke

 

b] become evident in the shorter term

 

c] become evident in the longer term

 

There have always been botanical substances burned to produce therapeutic smoke,

in the traditional medicines of many cultures.

 

But getting back to the oranges and tomatoes and meat... does the mind/body

crave these as a result of the imbalances, or are there in fact flavours and

substances in these foods which might help to restore balance and better

nutrition?

 

Tomatoes and oranges contain anti-oxidants, and the Spleen does like a little

animal protein.

 

Margi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

But getting back to the oranges and tomatoes and meat... does the

mind/body crave these as a result of the imbalances?

 

No.

 

 

 

--- On Thu, 6/18/09, margi.macdonald <margi.macdonald@ gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

margi.macdonald <margi.macdonald@ gmail.com>

 

Re: why do acidic foods increase smoking cravings?

 

 

 

Thursday, June 18, 2009, 6:16 PM

 

 

 

Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , Hugo Ramiro <subincor@..

..> wrote:

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

HI Hugo and All

 

 

 

Hugo wrote:

 

 

 

" Lung/Metal follows Spleen/Earth in the generative cycle. Positive generation

involves the Lung receiving nutritive Qi from the Spleen. Negative generation

involves the Lung receiving dampness from the Spleen.

 

 

 

I've seen a lot of smoker patients present with weak spleens that generate a lot

of damp and phlegm, which the smoking (kind of) keeps at bay.

 

 

 

It is also improtant to note that cigarettes do contain many non-toxic

ingredients that confuse the issue further by providing pleasant or even healthy

effects - mint, gentiana, anise, coconut oil, sage, including the tobacco

itself,�etc. "

 

 

 

I feel you've nailed it with your comments there Hugo... it's evident that

people dependent upon cigarette smoking, are attempting to self-medicate the

patterns of disharmony which:

 

 

 

a] influenced their initial decision to smoke

 

 

 

b] become evident in the shorter term

 

 

 

c] become evident in the longer term

 

 

 

There have always been botanical substances burned to produce therapeutic smoke,

in the traditional medicines of many cultures.

 

 

 

But getting back to the oranges and tomatoes and meat... does the mind/body

crave these as a result of the imbalances, or are there in fact flavours and

substances in these foods which might help to restore balance and better

nutrition?

 

 

 

Tomatoes and oranges contain anti-oxidants, and the Spleen does like a little

animal protein.

 

 

 

Margi