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Salary For A Hired Acu?

By Guest guest, in Ayurveda, Health and Wellbeing

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

Hi I have a job opportunity by an MD and she is wanting to know what a

typical salary/hourly rate for an acupuncturist is. I'd appreciate some

quick input! This is for Sacramento, Ca

 

Thanks

Julie

 

 

 

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

$26.66 per hour when I worked at St. Vincent Hospital in Los Angeles. It

was paltry.

 

In private practice its much better.

 

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Julie Ormonde <cariadanam wrote:

 

> Hi I have a job opportunity by an MD and she is wanting to know what a

> typical salary/hourly rate for an acupuncturist is. I'd appreciate some

> quick input! This is for Sacramento, Ca

>

> Thanks

> Julie

>

>

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

National Labor Stats list the hourly rate at $28 average.  Depending on the

level of experience it could go above $40.  Hope it helps.

 

Dr. Reenah McGill Relieving Your pain

Licensed Acupuncturist

Specializing in Pain Relief

323.668.0278 land ph - 323.668.2206 fax -  818-378-9882 cell

visit http://WWW.healingenergycenter.com or http://www.acuneuro.com or

http://www.mcgillpainclinic.com

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

Julie Ormonde <cariadanam

Chinese Medicine

Wednesday, February 25, 2009 3:37:24 PM

Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

Hi I have a job opportunity by an MD and she is wanting to know what a

typical salary/hourly rate for an acupuncturist is. I'd appreciate some

quick input! This is for Sacramento, Ca

 

Thanks

Julie

 

 

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

$30 an hour is typical assuming all office expenses, marketing expenses,

staff, rent, needles, herbs etc. are all provided. That is about what I

make in my practice after paying for everything and I charge $70.

 

Chris Vedeler

 

Julie Ormonde wrote:

>

> Hi I have a job opportunity by an MD and she is wanting to know what a

> typical salary/hourly rate for an acupuncturist is. I'd appreciate some

> quick input! This is for Sacramento, Ca

>

> Thanks

> Julie

>

>

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

So Chris, You have $30 leftover after all costs (overhead +

supplies, I assume marketing/promotion costs are built-into the

overhead....?).

 

How could you pay an acupuncturist the $30 that remains per hour and

still afford to stay in business? What is the point of hiring that

acu if their efforts would result in a net gain of zero?

 

In most business models, a high-level worker needs to generate FIVE

TIMES their salary in revenues. One who makes $100K should be

generating $500K in " sales " .

 

Perhaps other list members with successful private practices could

chime in with their ratios for a reality check: WHAT IS THE RATIO OF

YOUR GROSS INCOME TO YOUR SALARY+PROFITS???

 

Mark Zaranski

ps...I would guess that the Hospital payrange is skewed, and

unrealistic in terms of private practice.

Chinese Medicine , Christopher

Vedeler <vedeler wrote:

>

> $30 an hour is typical assuming all office expenses, marketing

expenses,

> staff, rent, needles, herbs etc. are all provided. That is about

what I

> make in my practice after paying for everything and I charge $70.

>

> Chris Vedeler

>

> Julie Ormonde wrote:

> >

> > Hi I have a job opportunity by an MD and she is wanting to know

what a

> > typical salary/hourly rate for an acupuncturist is. I'd

appreciate some

> > quick input! This is for Sacramento, Ca

> >

> > Thanks

> > Julie

> >

> >

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

Private practice is very much better if you have the patients. The sad but

untold story is that many acupuncturists don't have the patients to make a

decent living. That is why the median income of an acupuncturist is around

$35,000/yr. However, for those of us that have the patients to stay busy 8, 10,

12 hours a day can and do make a nice living. For those who don't or can't

generate a nice patient base, working for $50,000/yr is a good deal. However,

there are some of us that can generate salaries that exceed what many MD's make.

That is not the norm, and is on the other end of the scale. Median is in

between the high and the low and the mean will be different than the median.

 

 

 

It comes down to who can and can't generate a large patient base. If you can't,

take the salary and be happy. Actually, you will be lucky to find a salaried

position. They historically haven't been there for us.

 

 

 

Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

angelapfa

Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:58:07 -0800

Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

 

 

I worked in a hospital based clinic in Colorado and all master's level

licensees, including acupuncturists, received between $55,000 and $65,000 a year

depending on experience, plus generous benefits for health care, education,

retirement, etc.

The main question is, do you get paid regardless of whether the client shows up

or not.

 

Regards,

Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D.

 

angelapfa

 

www.InnerhealthSalem.com

 

Phone: 503 364 3022

-

Robert Chu

Chinese Medicine

Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:11 PM

Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

$26.66 per hour when I worked at St. Vincent Hospital in Los Angeles. It

was paltry.

 

In private practice its much better.

 

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Julie Ormonde <cariadanam wrote:

 

> Hi I have a job opportunity by an MD and she is wanting to know what a

> typical salary/hourly rate for an acupuncturist is. I'd appreciate some

> quick input! This is for Sacramento, Ca

>

> Thanks

> Julie

>

>

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

Donald,

You have written that you make $600 G/ year ...

is that with hiring other acupuncturists or other practitioners?

 

Did you take a practice mgmt course?

 

Doing the math, it would be very difficult to make that much $,

even seeing 60 patients/ week at $100/tx = $300 G/ year.

 

How do you do it?

 

K

 

 

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote:

 

>

> Private practice is very much better if you have the patients. The sad but

> untold story is that many acupuncturists don't have the patients to make a

> decent living. That is why the median income of an acupuncturist is around

> $35,000/yr. However, for those of us that have the patients to stay busy 8,

> 10, 12 hours a day can and do make a nice living. For those who don't or

> can't generate a nice patient base, working for $50,000/yr is a good deal.

> However, there are some of us that can generate salaries that exceed what

> many MD's make. That is not the norm, and is on the other end of the scale.

> Median is in between the high and the low and the mean will be different

> than the median.

>

> It comes down to who can and can't generate a large patient base. If you

> can't, take the salary and be happy. Actually, you will be lucky to find a

> salaried position. They historically haven't been there for us.

>

> Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

>

>

> To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> angelapfa <angelapfa%40comcast.net>

> Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:58:07 -0800

>

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> I worked in a hospital based clinic in Colorado and all master's level

> licensees, including acupuncturists, received between $55,000 and $65,000 a

> year depending on experience, plus generous benefits for health care,

> education, retirement, etc.

> The main question is, do you get paid regardless of whether the client

> shows up or not.

>

> Regards,

> Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D.

>

> angelapfa <angelapfa%40comcast.net>

>

> www.InnerhealthSalem.com

>

> Phone: 503 364 3022

> -

> Robert Chu

> To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:11 PM

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> $26.66 per hour when I worked at St. Vincent Hospital in Los Angeles. It

> was paltry.

>

> In private practice its much better.

>

> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Julie Ormonde

<cariadanam<cariadanam%40gmail.com>>

> wrote:

>

> > Hi I have a job opportunity by an MD and she is wanting to know what a

> > typical salary/hourly rate for an acupuncturist is. I'd appreciate some

> > quick input! This is for Sacramento, Ca

> >

> > Thanks

> > Julie

> >

> >

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

No, I currently am working alone with 3 assistants. However, I am taking

interviews for an associate that wants a salary and a percentage. That $600,000

is not all mine. After overhead and the MD's share, I make around $225-250,000.

I recently interviewed an acupuncturist right out of school and made her an

offer that she accepted. Then in a couple of days when s/he thought of what I

was making started making noise for more money. It's a shame. No track record

at all, but some people think they are going to make a million right out of

school. I guess I'm going to have to continue looking. Maybe it would be

better to look for someone with the experience of reality.

 

 

 

But getting back to the subject. While most of my patients come by word-of

mouth. I do keep my name in the public's eye continually. I buy radio,

television, and newpaper time and that gets expensive. Yesterday I cut a new

commercial at the local radio station. If one doesn't work or stops working, I

change it.

 

 

 

When I look at your math, I see you are not thinking outside the box. You think

only acupuncture is in your scope of practice. I make $200-400 per patient.

And I do this by practicing in my complete scope of practice and I lament that

the schools do not teach what is in our scope. If they continue to do that,

these things will be taken out of our scope of practice. Again, I no longer

share what I do with others. It is usually unappreciated and the ideas are

stolen and then marketed as their own. No thank you. I'll teach it, but I'll

get a percentage of future earnings with a written contract.

 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

johnkokko

Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:40:23 -0800

Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

 

 

Donald,

You have written that you make $600 G/ year ...

is that with hiring other acupuncturists or other practitioners?

 

Did you take a practice mgmt course?

 

Doing the math, it would be very difficult to make that much $,

even seeing 60 patients/ week at $100/tx = $300 G/ year.

 

How do you do it?

 

K

 

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote:

 

>

> Private practice is very much better if you have the patients. The sad but

> untold story is that many acupuncturists don't have the patients to make a

> decent living. That is why the median income of an acupuncturist is around

> $35,000/yr. However, for those of us that have the patients to stay busy 8,

> 10, 12 hours a day can and do make a nice living. For those who don't or

> can't generate a nice patient base, working for $50,000/yr is a good deal.

> However, there are some of us that can generate salaries that exceed what

> many MD's make. That is not the norm, and is on the other end of the scale.

> Median is in between the high and the low and the mean will be different

> than the median.

>

> It comes down to who can and can't generate a large patient base. If you

> can't, take the salary and be happy. Actually, you will be lucky to find a

> salaried position. They historically haven't been there for us.

>

> Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

>

>

> To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> angelapfa <angelapfa%40comcast.net>

> Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:58:07 -0800

>

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> I worked in a hospital based clinic in Colorado and all master's level

> licensees, including acupuncturists, received between $55,000 and $65,000 a

> year depending on experience, plus generous benefits for health care,

> education, retirement, etc.

> The main question is, do you get paid regardless of whether the client

> shows up or not.

>

> Regards,

> Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D.

>

> angelapfa <angelapfa%40comcast.net>

>

> www.InnerhealthSalem.com

>

> Phone: 503 364 3022

> -

> Robert Chu

> To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:11 PM

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> $26.66 per hour when I worked at St. Vincent Hospital in Los Angeles. It

> was paltry.

>

> In private practice its much better.

>

> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Julie Ormonde

<cariadanam<cariadanam%40gmail.com>>

> wrote:

>

> > Hi I have a job opportunity by an MD and she is wanting to know what a

> > typical salary/hourly rate for an acupuncturist is. I'd appreciate some

> > quick input! This is for Sacramento, Ca

> >

> > Thanks

> > Julie

> >

> >

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

Hi Don. Can I ask you if insurance reimbusement is a part, big or small, of your

ability, or the patient's ability to afford to pay so much?

 I was going to practice on NYC near Spanish Harlem for a while. But it was a

rehab chop shop, and within 40 minutes of arrival, the patient had chiropractic,

acupuncture, interview w a Doc, etc., whatever they could through at them and

get reimbursed for. Eventually the laws got tightened, I guess cause some people

whined that the russians were getting too greedy and flagrant. That's when the

NY acup exodus happened.

 Sound like you have a premier spot, and that's great! They wouldn't come if you

weren't helping. I end up giving it away half the time becuase no insurance, no

money, but, I never got into this for the money anyway. Still, it would make

things grow.   

 Many people, esp new, would probably benefit from advice from you. Of course

don't give it all away, but things that might help or inspire. The practice

protectionist mind that I sometimes see within our little craft is hurting the

field as a whole.

 

--- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote:

Donald Snow <don83407

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Thursday, February 26, 2009, 2:25 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, I currently am working alone with 3 assistants. However, I am taking

interviews for an associate that wants a salary and a percentage. That $600,000

is not all mine. After overhead and the MD's share, I make around $225-250,000.

I recently interviewed an acupuncturist right out of school and made her an

offer that she accepted. Then in a couple of days when s/he thought of what I

was making started making noise for more money. It's a shame. No track record

at all, but some people think they are going to make a million right out of

school. I guess I'm going to have to continue looking. Maybe it would be

better to look for someone with the experience of reality.

 

 

 

But getting back to the subject. While most of my patients come by word-of

mouth. I do keep my name in the public's eye continually. I buy radio,

television, and newpaper time and that gets expensive. Yesterday I cut a new

commercial at the local radio station. If one doesn't work or stops working, I

change it.

 

 

 

When I look at your math, I see you are not thinking outside the box. You think

only acupuncture is in your scope of practice. I make $200-400 per patient.

And I do this by practicing in my complete scope of practice and I lament that

the schools do not teach what is in our scope. If they continue to do that,

these things will be taken out of our scope of practice. Again, I no longer

share what I do with others. It is usually unappreciated and the ideas are

stolen and then marketed as their own. No thank you. I'll teach it, but I'll

get a percentage of future earnings with a written contract.

 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com

 

Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:40:23 -0800

 

Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

Donald,

 

You have written that you make $600 G/ year ...

 

is that with hiring other acupuncturists or other practitioners?

 

 

 

Did you take a practice mgmt course?

 

 

 

Doing the math, it would be very difficult to make that much $,

 

even seeing 60 patients/ week at $100/tx = $300 G/ year.

 

 

 

How do you do it?

 

 

 

K

 

 

 

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

>

 

> Private practice is very much better if you have the patients. The sad but

 

> untold story is that many acupuncturists don't have the patients to make a

 

> decent living. That is why the median income of an acupuncturist is around

 

> $35,000/yr. However, for those of us that have the patients to stay busy 8,

 

> 10, 12 hours a day can and do make a nice living. For those who don't or

 

> can't generate a nice patient base, working for $50,000/yr is a good deal.

 

> However, there are some of us that can generate salaries that exceed what

 

> many MD's make. That is not the norm, and is on the other end of the scale.

 

> Median is in between the high and the low and the mean will be different

 

> than the median.

 

>

 

> It comes down to who can and can't generate a large patient base. If you

 

> can't, take the salary and be happy. Actually, you will be lucky to find a

 

> salaried position. They historically haven't been there for us.

 

>

 

> Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

 

>

 

>

 

> <Traditional_

Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

 

> angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

 

> Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:58:07 -0800

 

>

 

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

>

 

> I worked in a hospital based clinic in Colorado and all master's level

 

> licensees, including acupuncturists, received between $55,000 and $65,000 a

 

> year depending on experience, plus generous benefits for health care,

 

> education, retirement, etc.

 

> The main question is, do you get paid regardless of whether the client

 

> shows up or not.

 

>

 

> Regards,

 

> Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D.

 

>

 

> angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

 

>

 

> www.InnerhealthSale m.com

 

>

 

> Phone: 503 364 3022

 

> -

 

> Robert Chu

 

> <Traditional_

Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

 

> Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:11 PM

 

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

>

 

> $26.66 per hour when I worked at St. Vincent Hospital in Los Angeles. It

 

> was paltry.

 

>

 

> In private practice its much better.

 

>

 

> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Julie Ormonde <cariadanam (AT) gmail (DOT)

com<cariadanam% 40gmail.com> >

 

> wrote:

 

>

 

> > Hi I have a job opportunity by an MD and she is wanting to know what a

 

> > typical salary/hourly rate for an acupuncturist is. I'd appreciate some

 

> > quick input! This is for Sacramento, Ca

 

> >

 

> > Thanks

 

> > Julie

 

> >

 

> >

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

What is hurting the field are so-called masters that go around giving seminars

and have huge followings. They are unable to maintain a busy practice, so

instead hype themselves or have themselves hyped to sell to those within the

profession. If they had such successful and busy practices they wouldn't have

the time to go around the country teaching our peers. In actuality, there are

no secrets in acupuncture. Really, often one must learn proper needle depth.

In school I noticed many students and practitioners using one inch needles in

areas that really required 3 to 6 inch needles.

 

 

 

Now to answer your main question. Yes, insurance pays for a great deal of my

treatments. But probably 1/3 of my patients are cash. They used to take out

loans for the treatments but now I use Care Credit. But insurance pays for most

of what I do.

 

 

 

Hope this helps,

 

 

 

Dr. Don Snow DAOM, LAc

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

ykcul_ritsym

Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:59:43 -0800

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Don. Can I ask you if insurance reimbusement is a part, big or small, of your

ability, or the patient's ability to afford to pay so much?

I was going to practice on NYC near Spanish Harlem for a while. But it was a

rehab chop shop, and within 40 minutes of arrival, the patient had chiropractic,

acupuncture, interview w a Doc, etc., whatever they could through at them and

get reimbursed for. Eventually the laws got tightened, I guess cause some people

whined that the russians were getting too greedy and flagrant. That's when the

NY acup exodus happened.

Sound like you have a premier spot, and that's great! They wouldn't come if you

weren't helping. I end up giving it away half the time becuase no insurance, no

money, but, I never got into this for the money anyway. Still, it would make

things grow.

Many people, esp new, would probably benefit from advice from you. Of course

don't give it all away, but things that might help or inspire. The practice

protectionist mind that I sometimes see within our little craft is hurting the

field as a whole.

 

--- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote:

Donald Snow <don83407

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Thursday, February 26, 2009, 2:25 PM

 

No, I currently am working alone with 3 assistants. However, I am taking

interviews for an associate that wants a salary and a percentage. That $600,000

is not all mine. After overhead and the MD's share, I make around $225-250,000.

I recently interviewed an acupuncturist right out of school and made her an

offer that she accepted. Then in a couple of days when s/he thought of what I

was making started making noise for more money. It's a shame. No track record at

all, but some people think they are going to make a million right out of school.

I guess I'm going to have to continue looking. Maybe it would be better to look

for someone with the experience of reality.

 

But getting back to the subject. While most of my patients come by word-of

mouth. I do keep my name in the public's eye continually. I buy radio,

television, and newpaper time and that gets expensive. Yesterday I cut a new

commercial at the local radio station. If one doesn't work or stops working, I

change it.

 

When I look at your math, I see you are not thinking outside the box. You think

only acupuncture is in your scope of practice. I make $200-400 per patient. And

I do this by practicing in my complete scope of practice and I lament that the

schools do not teach what is in our scope. If they continue to do that, these

things will be taken out of our scope of practice. Again, I no longer share what

I do with others. It is usually unappreciated and the ideas are stolen and then

marketed as their own. No thank you. I'll teach it, but I'll get a percentage of

future earnings with a written contract.

 

Sincerely,

 

Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

 

 

 

johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com

 

Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:40:23 -0800

 

Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

Donald,

 

You have written that you make $600 G/ year ...

 

is that with hiring other acupuncturists or other practitioners?

 

Did you take a practice mgmt course?

 

Doing the math, it would be very difficult to make that much $,

 

even seeing 60 patients/ week at $100/tx = $300 G/ year.

 

How do you do it?

 

K

 

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

 

>

 

> Private practice is very much better if you have the patients. The sad but

 

> untold story is that many acupuncturists don't have the patients to make a

 

> decent living. That is why the median income of an acupuncturist is around

 

> $35,000/yr. However, for those of us that have the patients to stay busy 8,

 

> 10, 12 hours a day can and do make a nice living. For those who don't or

 

> can't generate a nice patient base, working for $50,000/yr is a good deal.

 

> However, there are some of us that can generate salaries that exceed what

 

> many MD's make. That is not the norm, and is on the other end of the scale.

 

> Median is in between the high and the low and the mean will be different

 

> than the median.

 

>

 

> It comes down to who can and can't generate a large patient base. If you

 

> can't, take the salary and be happy. Actually, you will be lucky to find a

 

> salaried position. They historically haven't been there for us.

 

>

 

> Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

 

>

 

>

 

> <Traditional_

Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

 

> angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

 

> Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:58:07 -0800

 

>

 

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

>

 

> I worked in a hospital based clinic in Colorado and all master's level

 

> licensees, including acupuncturists, received between $55,000 and $65,000 a

 

> year depending on experience, plus generous benefits for health care,

 

> education, retirement, etc.

 

> The main question is, do you get paid regardless of whether the client

 

> shows up or not.

 

>

 

> Regards,

 

> Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D.

 

>

 

> angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

 

>

 

> www.InnerhealthSale m.com

 

>

 

> Phone: 503 364 3022

 

> -

 

> Robert Chu

 

> <Traditional_

Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

 

> Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:11 PM

 

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

>

 

> $26.66 per hour when I worked at St. Vincent Hospital in Los Angeles. It

 

> was paltry.

 

>

 

> In private practice its much better.

 

>

 

> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Julie Ormonde <cariadanam (AT) gmail (DOT)

com<cariadanam% 40gmail.com> >

 

> wrote:

 

>

 

> > Hi I have a job opportunity by an MD and she is wanting to know what a

 

> > typical salary/hourly rate for an acupuncturist is. I'd appreciate some

 

> > quick input! This is for Sacramento, Ca

 

> >

 

> > Thanks

 

> > Julie

 

> >

 

> >

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

Heya, Don... how are ya... its been a while... I see you are doing great with

your practice... keep up the great work. I just moved back to San Diego, CA, and

had to pass on my two FL practices to one of my interns, but she is doing a

great job. Stay in touch...

 

Rene Ng

 

--- On Thu, 2/26/09, mystir <ykcul_ritsym wrote:

 

mystir <ykcul_ritsym

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

Chinese Medicine

Thursday, February 26, 2009, 5:59 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Don. Can I ask you if insurance reimbusement is a part, big or small, of your

ability, or the patient's ability to afford to pay so much?

 I was going to practice on NYC near Spanish Harlem for a while. But it was a

rehab chop shop, and within 40 minutes of arrival, the patient had chiropractic,

acupuncture, interview w a Doc, etc., whatever they could through at them and

get reimbursed for. Eventually the laws got tightened, I guess cause some people

whined that the russians were getting too greedy and flagrant. That's when the

NY acup exodus happened.

 Sound like you have a premier spot, and that's great! They wouldn't come if you

weren't helping. I end up giving it away half the time becuase no insurance, no

money, but, I never got into this for the money anyway. Still, it would make

things grow.   

 Many people, esp new, would probably benefit from advice from you. Of course

don't give it all away, but things that might help or inspire. The practice

protectionist mind that I sometimes see within our little craft is hurting the

field as a whole.

 

--- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com>

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

traditional_ chinese_medicine

Thursday, February 26, 2009, 2:25 PM

 

No, I currently am working alone with 3 assistants. However, I am taking

interviews for an associate that wants a salary and a percentage. That $600,000

is not all mine. After overhead and the MD's share, I make around $225-250,000.

I recently interviewed an acupuncturist right out of school and made her an

offer that she accepted. Then in a couple of days when s/he thought of what I

was making started making noise for more money. It's a shame. No track record at

all, but some people think they are going to make a million right out of school.

I guess I'm going to have to continue looking. Maybe it would be better to look

for someone with the experience of reality.

 

But getting back to the subject. While most of my patients come by word-of

mouth. I do keep my name in the public's eye continually. I buy radio,

television, and newpaper time and that gets expensive. Yesterday I cut a new

commercial at the local radio station. If one doesn't work or stops working, I

change it.

 

When I look at your math, I see you are not thinking outside the box. You think

only acupuncture is in your scope of practice. I make $200-400 per patient. And

I do this by practicing in my complete scope of practice and I lament that the

schools do not teach what is in our scope. If they continue to do that, these

things will be taken out of our scope of practice. Again, I no longer share what

I do with others. It is usually unappreciated and the ideas are stolen and then

marketed as their own. No thank you. I'll teach it, but I'll get a percentage of

future earnings with a written contract.

 

Sincerely,

 

Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

 

 

 

johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com

 

Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:40:23 -0800

 

Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

Donald,

 

You have written that you make $600 G/ year ...

 

is that with hiring other acupuncturists or other practitioners?

 

Did you take a practice mgmt course?

 

Doing the math, it would be very difficult to make that much $,

 

even seeing 60 patients/ week at $100/tx = $300 G/ year.

 

How do you do it?

 

K

 

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

 

>

 

> Private practice is very much better if you have the patients. The sad but

 

> untold story is that many acupuncturists don't have the patients to make a

 

> decent living. That is why the median income of an acupuncturist is around

 

> $35,000/yr. However, for those of us that have the patients to stay busy 8,

 

> 10, 12 hours a day can and do make a nice living. For those who don't or

 

> can't generate a nice patient base, working for $50,000/yr is a good deal.

 

> However, there are some of us that can generate salaries that exceed what

 

> many MD's make. That is not the norm, and is on the other end of the scale.

 

> Median is in between the high and the low and the mean will be different

 

> than the median.

 

>

 

> It comes down to who can and can't generate a large patient base. If you

 

> can't, take the salary and be happy. Actually, you will be lucky to find a

 

> salaried position. They historically haven't been there for us.

 

>

 

> Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

 

>

 

>

 

> <Traditional_

Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

 

> angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

 

> Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:58:07 -0800

 

>

 

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

>

 

> I worked in a hospital based clinic in Colorado and all master's level

 

> licensees, including acupuncturists, received between $55,000 and $65,000 a

 

> year depending on experience, plus generous benefits for health care,

 

> education, retirement, etc.

 

> The main question is, do you get paid regardless of whether the client

 

> shows up or not.

 

>

 

> Regards,

 

> Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D.

 

>

 

> angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

 

>

 

> www.InnerhealthSale m.com

 

>

 

> Phone: 503 364 3022

 

> -

 

> Robert Chu

 

> <Traditional_

Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

 

> Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:11 PM

 

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

>

 

> $26.66 per hour when I worked at St. Vincent Hospital in Los Angeles. It

 

> was paltry.

 

>

 

> In private practice its much better.

 

>

 

> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Julie Ormonde <cariadanam@ gmail.

com<cariadanam% 40gmail.com> >

 

> wrote:

 

>

 

> > Hi I have a job opportunity by an MD and she is wanting to know what a

 

> > typical salary/hourly rate for an acupuncturist is. I'd appreciate some

 

> > quick input! This is for Sacramento, Ca

 

> >

 

> > Thanks

 

> > Julie

 

> >

 

> >

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

don:

 

how does care credit work? i have a friend who used it for dental work, but

didn't know that it was available for acu. is that a CA thing, or avail in

all states?

 

kath

 

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote:

 

>

> What is hurting the field are so-called masters that go around giving

> seminars and have huge followings. They are unable to maintain a busy

> practice, so instead hype themselves or have themselves hyped to sell to

> those within the profession. If they had such successful and busy practices

> they wouldn't have the time to go around the country teaching our peers. In

> actuality, there are no secrets in acupuncture. Really, often one must learn

> proper needle depth. In school I noticed many students and practitioners

> using one inch needles in areas that really required 3 to 6 inch needles.

>

> Now to answer your main question. Yes, insurance pays for a great deal of

> my treatments. But probably 1/3 of my patients are cash. They used to take

> out loans for the treatments but now I use Care Credit. But insurance pays

> for most of what I do.

>

> Hope this helps,

>

> Dr. Don Snow DAOM, LAc

>

>

>

> To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> ykcul_ritsym <ykcul_ritsym%40>

> Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:59:43 -0800

>

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> Hi Don. Can I ask you if insurance reimbusement is a part, big or small, of

> your ability, or the patient's ability to afford to pay so much?

> I was going to practice on NYC near Spanish Harlem for a while. But it was

> a rehab chop shop, and within 40 minutes of arrival, the patient had

> chiropractic, acupuncture, interview w a Doc, etc., whatever they could

> through at them and get reimbursed for. Eventually the laws got tightened, I

> guess cause some people whined that the russians were getting too greedy and

> flagrant. That's when the NY acup exodus happened.

> Sound like you have a premier spot, and that's great! They wouldn't come if

> you weren't helping. I end up giving it away half the time becuase no

> insurance, no money, but, I never got into this for the money anyway. Still,

> it would make things grow.

> Many people, esp new, would probably benefit from advice from you. Of

> course don't give it all away, but things that might help or inspire. The

> practice protectionist mind that I sometimes see within our little craft is

> hurting the field as a whole.

>

> --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 <don83407%40msn.com>>

> wrote:

> Donald Snow <don83407 <don83407%40msn.com>>

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

> To:

Chinese Traditional Medicine <Chinese Traditional Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> Thursday, February 26, 2009, 2:25 PM

>

> No, I currently am working alone with 3 assistants. However, I am taking

> interviews for an associate that wants a salary and a percentage. That

> $600,000 is not all mine. After overhead and the MD's share, I make around

> $225-250,000. I recently interviewed an acupuncturist right out of school

> and made her an offer that she accepted. Then in a couple of days when s/he

> thought of what I was making started making noise for more money. It's a

> shame. No track record at all, but some people think they are going to make

> a million right out of school. I guess I'm going to have to continue

> looking. Maybe it would be better to look for someone with the experience of

> reality.

>

> But getting back to the subject. While most of my patients come by word-of

> mouth. I do keep my name in the public's eye continually. I buy radio,

> television, and newpaper time and that gets expensive. Yesterday I cut a new

> commercial at the local radio station. If one doesn't work or stops working,

> I change it.

>

> When I look at your math, I see you are not thinking outside the box. You

> think only acupuncture is in your scope of practice. I make $200-400 per

> patient. And I do this by practicing in my complete scope of practice and I

> lament that the schools do not teach what is in our scope. If they continue

> to do that, these things will be taken out of our scope of practice. Again,

> I no longer share what I do with others. It is usually unappreciated and the

> ideas are stolen and then marketed as their own. No thank you. I'll teach

> it, but I'll get a percentage of future earnings with a written contract.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

>

>

>

> johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com

>

> Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:40:23 -0800

>

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> Donald,

>

> You have written that you make $600 G/ year ...

>

> is that with hiring other acupuncturists or other practitioners?

>

> Did you take a practice mgmt course?

>

> Doing the math, it would be very difficult to make that much $,

>

> even seeing 60 patients/ week at $100/tx = $300 G/ year.

>

> How do you do it?

>

> K

>

> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Private practice is very much better if you have the patients. The sad

> but

>

> > untold story is that many acupuncturists don't have the patients to make

> a

>

> > decent living. That is why the median income of an acupuncturist is

> around

>

> > $35,000/yr. However, for those of us that have the patients to stay busy

> 8,

>

> > 10, 12 hours a day can and do make a nice living. For those who don't or

>

> > can't generate a nice patient base, working for $50,000/yr is a good

> deal.

>

> > However, there are some of us that can generate salaries that exceed what

>

> > many MD's make. That is not the norm, and is on the other end of the

> scale.

>

> > Median is in between the high and the low and the mean will be different

>

> > than the median.

>

> >

>

> > It comes down to who can and can't generate a large patient base. If you

>

> > can't, take the salary and be happy. Actually, you will be lucky to find

> a

>

> > salaried position. They historically haven't been there for us.

>

> >

>

> > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > <Traditional_

> Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

>

> > angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

>

> > Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:58:07 -0800

>

> >

>

> > Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> >

>

> > I worked in a hospital based clinic in Colorado and all master's level

>

> > licensees, including acupuncturists, received between $55,000 and $65,000

> a

>

> > year depending on experience, plus generous benefits for health care,

>

> > education, retirement, etc.

>

> > The main question is, do you get paid regardless of whether the client

>

> > shows up or not.

>

> >

>

> > Regards,

>

> > Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D.

>

> >

>

> > angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

>

> >

>

> > www.InnerhealthSale m.com

>

> >

>

> > Phone: 503 364 3022

>

> > -

>

> > Robert Chu

>

> > <Traditional_

> Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

>

> > Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:11 PM

>

> > Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> >

>

> > $26.66 per hour when I worked at St. Vincent Hospital in Los Angeles. It

>

> > was paltry.

>

> >

>

> > In private practice its much better.

>

> >

>

> > On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Julie Ormonde

<cariadanam<cariadanam%

> 40gmail.com> >

>

> > wrote:

>

> >

>

> > > Hi I have a job opportunity by an MD and she is wanting to know what a

>

> > > typical salary/hourly rate for an acupuncturist is. I'd appreciate some

>

> > > quick input! This is for Sacramento, Ca

>

> > >

>

> > > Thanks

>

> > > Julie

>

> > >

>

> > >

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

The few sallaried positions I know of in Florida pay $15 per hour, regardless of

a patient

showing up. I know of one exception, a position paying $20, but if the patient

doesn't show

they are not paid.

 

David Botton

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

It does help, and I agree with you about some teachers. Depth is different, so

you had other teachers, too, outside the sneak up like a cat japanese, and 5

element.  Still Don, just little things you told me, c'mon, I already have 6 "

needles, but the newbies are timid. I'm not successful like you, but you can

teach, inspire. Thanks for responding. Peace brother.

 

--- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote:

Donald Snow <don83407

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Thursday, February 26, 2009, 6:10 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What is hurting the field are so-called masters that go around giving seminars

and have huge followings. They are unable to maintain a busy practice, so

instead hype themselves or have themselves hyped to sell to those within the

profession. If they had such successful and busy practices they wouldn't have

the time to go around the country teaching our peers. In actuality, there are

no secrets in acupuncture. Really, often one must learn proper needle depth.

In school I noticed many students and practitioners using one inch needles in

areas that really required 3 to 6 inch needles.

 

 

 

Now to answer your main question. Yes, insurance pays for a great deal of my

treatments. But probably 1/3 of my patients are cash. They used to take out

loans for the treatments but now I use Care Credit. But insurance pays for most

of what I do.

 

 

 

Hope this helps,

 

 

 

Dr. Don Snow DAOM, LAc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ykcul_ritsym@

 

Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:59:43 -0800

 

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

Hi Don. Can I ask you if insurance reimbusement is a part, big or small, of your

ability, or the patient's ability to afford to pay so much?

 

I was going to practice on NYC near Spanish Harlem for a while. But it was a

rehab chop shop, and within 40 minutes of arrival, the patient had chiropractic,

acupuncture, interview w a Doc, etc., whatever they could through at them and

get reimbursed for. Eventually the laws got tightened, I guess cause some people

whined that the russians were getting too greedy and flagrant. That's when the

NY acup exodus happened.

 

Sound like you have a premier spot, and that's great! They wouldn't come if you

weren't helping. I end up giving it away half the time becuase no insurance, no

money, but, I never got into this for the money anyway. Still, it would make

things grow.

 

Many people, esp new, would probably benefit from advice from you. Of course

don't give it all away, but things that might help or inspire. The practice

protectionist mind that I sometimes see within our little craft is hurting the

field as a whole.

 

 

 

--- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

 

Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com>

 

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

traditional_ chinese_medicine

 

Thursday, February 26, 2009, 2:25 PM

 

 

 

No, I currently am working alone with 3 assistants. However, I am taking

interviews for an associate that wants a salary and a percentage. That $600,000

is not all mine. After overhead and the MD's share, I make around $225-250,000.

I recently interviewed an acupuncturist right out of school and made her an

offer that she accepted. Then in a couple of days when s/he thought of what I

was making started making noise for more money. It's a shame. No track record at

all, but some people think they are going to make a million right out of school.

I guess I'm going to have to continue looking. Maybe it would be better to look

for someone with the experience of reality.

 

 

 

But getting back to the subject. While most of my patients come by word-of

mouth. I do keep my name in the public's eye continually. I buy radio,

television, and newpaper time and that gets expensive. Yesterday I cut a new

commercial at the local radio station. If one doesn't work or stops working, I

change it.

 

 

 

When I look at your math, I see you are not thinking outside the box. You think

only acupuncture is in your scope of practice. I make $200-400 per patient. And

I do this by practicing in my complete scope of practice and I lament that the

schools do not teach what is in our scope. If they continue to do that, these

things will be taken out of our scope of practice. Again, I no longer share what

I do with others. It is usually unappreciated and the ideas are stolen and then

marketed as their own. No thank you. I'll teach it, but I'll get a percentage of

future earnings with a written contract.

 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com

 

 

 

Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:40:23 -0800

 

 

 

Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

Donald,

 

 

 

You have written that you make $600 G/ year ...

 

 

 

is that with hiring other acupuncturists or other practitioners?

 

 

 

Did you take a practice mgmt course?

 

 

 

Doing the math, it would be very difficult to make that much $,

 

 

 

even seeing 60 patients/ week at $100/tx = $300 G/ year.

 

 

 

How do you do it?

 

 

 

K

 

 

 

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> Private practice is very much better if you have the patients. The sad but

 

 

 

> untold story is that many acupuncturists don't have the patients to make a

 

 

 

> decent living. That is why the median income of an acupuncturist is around

 

 

 

> $35,000/yr. However, for those of us that have the patients to stay busy 8,

 

 

 

> 10, 12 hours a day can and do make a nice living. For those who don't or

 

 

 

> can't generate a nice patient base, working for $50,000/yr is a good deal.

 

 

 

> However, there are some of us that can generate salaries that exceed what

 

 

 

> many MD's make. That is not the norm, and is on the other end of the scale.

 

 

 

> Median is in between the high and the low and the mean will be different

 

 

 

> than the median.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> It comes down to who can and can't generate a large patient base. If you

 

 

 

> can't, take the salary and be happy. Actually, you will be lucky to find a

 

 

 

> salaried position. They historically haven't been there for us.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> <Traditional_

Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

 

 

 

> angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

 

 

 

> Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:58:07 -0800

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> I worked in a hospital based clinic in Colorado and all master's level

 

 

 

> licensees, including acupuncturists, received between $55,000 and $65,000 a

 

 

 

> year depending on experience, plus generous benefits for health care,

 

 

 

> education, retirement, etc.

 

 

 

> The main question is, do you get paid regardless of whether the client

 

 

 

> shows up or not.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> Regards,

 

 

 

> Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> www.InnerhealthSale m.com

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> Phone: 503 364 3022

 

 

 

> -

 

 

 

> Robert Chu

 

 

 

> <Traditional_

Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

 

 

 

> Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:11 PM

 

 

 

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> $26.66 per hour when I worked at St. Vincent Hospital in Los Angeles. It

 

 

 

> was paltry.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> In private practice its much better.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Julie Ormonde <cariadanam@ gmail.

com<cariadanam% 40gmail.com> >

 

 

 

> wrote:

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> > Hi I have a job opportunity by an MD and she is wanting to know what a

 

 

 

> > typical salary/hourly rate for an acupuncturist is. I'd appreciate some

 

 

 

> > quick input! This is for Sacramento, Ca

 

 

 

> >

 

 

 

> > Thanks

 

 

 

> > Julie

 

 

 

> >

 

 

 

> >

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

Yep, that's the sad truth a lot of places.

 

--- On Thu, 2/26/09, David Botton <david wrote:

David Botton <david

Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

Chinese Medicine

Thursday, February 26, 2009, 8:51 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The few sallaried positions I know of in Florida pay $15 per hour,

regardless of a patient

 

showing up. I know of one exception, a position paying $20, but if the patient

doesn't show

 

they are not paid.

 

 

 

David Botton

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

I'm a newbie, and I'm afraid to use 6 inch needles.

 

 

 

-

" mystir " <ykcul_ritsym

<Chinese Medicine >

Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:30 PM

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

It does help, and I agree with you about some teachers. Depth is different,

so you had other teachers, too, outside the sneak up like a cat japanese,

and 5 element. Still Don, just little things you told me, c'mon, I already

have 6 " needles, but the newbies are timid. I'm not successful like you,

but you can teach, inspire. Thanks for responding. Peace brother.

 

--- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote:

Donald Snow <don83407

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Thursday, February 26, 2009, 6:10 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What is hurting the field are so-called masters that go around giving

seminars and have huge followings. They are unable to maintain a busy

practice, so instead hype themselves or have themselves hyped to sell to

those within the profession. If they had such successful and busy practices

they wouldn't have the time to go around the country teaching our peers. In

actuality, there are no secrets in acupuncture. Really, often one must

learn proper needle depth. In school I noticed many students and

practitioners using one inch needles in areas that really required 3 to 6

inch needles.

 

 

 

Now to answer your main question. Yes, insurance pays for a great deal of

my treatments. But probably 1/3 of my patients are cash. They used to take

out loans for the treatments but now I use Care Credit. But insurance pays

for most of what I do.

 

 

 

Hope this helps,

 

 

 

Dr. Don Snow DAOM, LAc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ykcul_ritsym@

 

Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:59:43 -0800

 

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

Hi Don. Can I ask you if insurance reimbusement is a part, big or small, of

your ability, or the patient's ability to afford to pay so much?

 

I was going to practice on NYC near Spanish Harlem for a while. But it was

a rehab chop shop, and within 40 minutes of arrival, the patient had

chiropractic, acupuncture, interview w a Doc, etc., whatever they could

through at them and get reimbursed for. Eventually the laws got tightened, I

guess cause some people whined that the russians were getting too greedy and

flagrant. That's when the NY acup exodus happened.

 

Sound like you have a premier spot, and that's great! They wouldn't come if

you weren't helping. I end up giving it away half the time becuase no

insurance, no money, but, I never got into this for the money anyway. Still,

it would make things grow.

 

Many people, esp new, would probably benefit from advice from you. Of

course don't give it all away, but things that might help or inspire. The

practice protectionist mind that I sometimes see within our little craft is

hurting the field as a whole.

 

 

 

--- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

 

Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com>

 

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

traditional_ chinese_medicine

 

Thursday, February 26, 2009, 2:25 PM

 

 

 

No, I currently am working alone with 3 assistants. However, I am taking

interviews for an associate that wants a salary and a percentage. That

$600,000 is not all mine. After overhead and the MD's share, I make around

$225-250,000. I recently interviewed an acupuncturist right out of school

and made her an offer that she accepted. Then in a couple of days when s/he

thought of what I was making started making noise for more money. It's a

shame. No track record at all, but some people think they are going to make

a million right out of school. I guess I'm going to have to continue

looking. Maybe it would be better to look for someone with the experience of

reality.

 

 

 

But getting back to the subject. While most of my patients come by word-of

mouth. I do keep my name in the public's eye continually. I buy radio,

television, and newpaper time and that gets expensive. Yesterday I cut a new

commercial at the local radio station. If one doesn't work or stops working,

I change it.

 

 

 

When I look at your math, I see you are not thinking outside the box. You

think only acupuncture is in your scope of practice. I make $200-400 per

patient. And I do this by practicing in my complete scope of practice and I

lament that the schools do not teach what is in our scope. If they continue

to do that, these things will be taken out of our scope of practice. Again,

I no longer share what I do with others. It is usually unappreciated and the

ideas are stolen and then marketed as their own. No thank you. I'll teach

it, but I'll get a percentage of future earnings with a written contract.

 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com

 

 

 

Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:40:23 -0800

 

 

 

Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

Donald,

 

 

 

You have written that you make $600 G/ year ...

 

 

 

is that with hiring other acupuncturists or other practitioners?

 

 

 

Did you take a practice mgmt course?

 

 

 

Doing the math, it would be very difficult to make that much $,

 

 

 

even seeing 60 patients/ week at $100/tx = $300 G/ year.

 

 

 

How do you do it?

 

 

 

K

 

 

 

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> Private practice is very much better if you have the patients. The sad but

 

 

 

> untold story is that many acupuncturists don't have the patients to make a

 

 

 

> decent living. That is why the median income of an acupuncturist is around

 

 

 

> $35,000/yr. However, for those of us that have the patients to stay busy

> 8,

 

 

 

> 10, 12 hours a day can and do make a nice living. For those who don't or

 

 

 

> can't generate a nice patient base, working for $50,000/yr is a good deal.

 

 

 

> However, there are some of us that can generate salaries that exceed what

 

 

 

> many MD's make. That is not the norm, and is on the other end of the

> scale.

 

 

 

> Median is in between the high and the low and the mean will be different

 

 

 

> than the median.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> It comes down to who can and can't generate a large patient base. If you

 

 

 

> can't, take the salary and be happy. Actually, you will be lucky to find a

 

 

 

> salaried position. They historically haven't been there for us.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> <Traditional_

> Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

 

 

 

> angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

 

 

 

> Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:58:07 -0800

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> I worked in a hospital based clinic in Colorado and all master's level

 

 

 

> licensees, including acupuncturists, received between $55,000 and $65,000

> a

 

 

 

> year depending on experience, plus generous benefits for health care,

 

 

 

> education, retirement, etc.

 

 

 

> The main question is, do you get paid regardless of whether the client

 

 

 

> shows up or not.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> Regards,

 

 

 

> Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> www.InnerhealthSale m.com

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> Phone: 503 364 3022

 

 

 

> -

 

 

 

> Robert Chu

 

 

 

> <Traditional_

> Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

 

 

 

> Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:11 PM

 

 

 

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> $26.66 per hour when I worked at St. Vincent Hospital in Los Angeles. It

 

 

 

> was paltry.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> In private practice its much better.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Julie Ormonde <cariadanam@ gmail.

> com<cariadanam% 40gmail.com> >

 

 

 

> wrote:

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> > Hi I have a job opportunity by an MD and she is wanting to know what a

 

 

 

> > typical salary/hourly rate for an acupuncturist is. I'd appreciate some

 

 

 

> > quick input! This is for Sacramento, Ca

 

 

 

> >

 

 

 

> > Thanks

 

 

 

> > Julie

 

 

 

> >

 

 

 

> >

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

Yeah, in the student clinic one of the guys was doing some deep needling my

first year, and I was like, " Wow you're going pretty deep, hey? " Thinking

he was going down probably like 2-3 inches. Well he pulled the needle out

and showed me. LOL. I almost passed out! Great qi sensation, though.

 

 

 

-

" mystir " <ykcul_ritsym

<Chinese Medicine >

Friday, February 27, 2009 8:58 AM

Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

I guess that does sound scary, but they are used usually in the buttocks at

certain points for large people, for back, hip, or leg problems, or for

threading (superficial horizontal insertion)to connect several points or

areas simultaneously. eg, along the spine, or scalp, sometimes like the

barefoot doctor method. Not more painful, once you are used to the feeling

where they slide easily just beneath the skin.

 

--- On Fri, 2/27/09, Mercurius Trismegistus <magisterium_magnum

wrote:

Mercurius Trismegistus <magisterium_magnum

Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

Chinese Medicine

Friday, February 27, 2009, 5:06 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm a newbie, and I'm afraid to use 6 inch needles.

 

 

 

-

 

" mystir " <ykcul_ritsym@ >

 

<Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine >

 

Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:30 PM

 

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

It does help, and I agree with you about some teachers. Depth is different,

 

so you had other teachers, too, outside the sneak up like a cat japanese,

 

and 5 element. Still Don, just little things you told me, c'mon, I already

 

have 6 " needles, but the newbies are timid. I'm not successful like you,

 

but you can teach, inspire. Thanks for responding. Peace brother.

 

 

 

--- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

 

Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com>

 

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

traditional_ chinese_medicine

 

Thursday, February 26, 2009, 6:10 PM

 

 

 

What is hurting the field are so-called masters that go around giving

 

seminars and have huge followings. They are unable to maintain a busy

 

practice, so instead hype themselves or have themselves hyped to sell to

 

those within the profession. If they had such successful and busy practices

 

they wouldn't have the time to go around the country teaching our peers. In

 

actuality, there are no secrets in acupuncture. Really, often one must

 

learn proper needle depth. In school I noticed many students and

 

practitioners using one inch needles in areas that really required 3 to 6

 

inch needles.

 

 

 

Now to answer your main question. Yes, insurance pays for a great deal of

 

my treatments. But probably 1/3 of my patients are cash. They used to take

 

out loans for the treatments but now I use Care Credit. But insurance pays

 

for most of what I do.

 

 

 

Hope this helps,

 

 

 

Dr. Don Snow DAOM, LAc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ykcul_ritsym@

 

 

 

Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:59:43 -0800

 

 

 

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

Hi Don. Can I ask you if insurance reimbusement is a part, big or small, of

 

your ability, or the patient's ability to afford to pay so much?

 

 

 

I was going to practice on NYC near Spanish Harlem for a while. But it was

 

a rehab chop shop, and within 40 minutes of arrival, the patient had

 

chiropractic, acupuncture, interview w a Doc, etc., whatever they could

 

through at them and get reimbursed for. Eventually the laws got tightened, I

 

guess cause some people whined that the russians were getting too greedy and

 

flagrant. That's when the NY acup exodus happened.

 

 

 

Sound like you have a premier spot, and that's great! They wouldn't come if

 

you weren't helping. I end up giving it away half the time becuase no

 

insurance, no money, but, I never got into this for the money anyway. Still,

 

it would make things grow.

 

 

 

Many people, esp new, would probably benefit from advice from you. Of

 

course don't give it all away, but things that might help or inspire. The

 

practice protectionist mind that I sometimes see within our little craft is

 

hurting the field as a whole.

 

 

 

--- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com>

 

 

 

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

traditional_ chinese_medicine

 

 

 

Thursday, February 26, 2009, 2:25 PM

 

 

 

No, I currently am working alone with 3 assistants. However, I am taking

 

interviews for an associate that wants a salary and a percentage. That

 

$600,000 is not all mine. After overhead and the MD's share, I make around

 

$225-250,000. I recently interviewed an acupuncturist right out of school

 

and made her an offer that she accepted. Then in a couple of days when s/he

 

thought of what I was making started making noise for more money. It's a

 

shame. No track record at all, but some people think they are going to make

 

a million right out of school. I guess I'm going to have to continue

 

looking. Maybe it would be better to look for someone with the experience of

 

reality.

 

 

 

But getting back to the subject. While most of my patients come by word-of

 

mouth. I do keep my name in the public's eye continually. I buy radio,

 

television, and newpaper time and that gets expensive. Yesterday I cut a new

 

commercial at the local radio station. If one doesn't work or stops working,

 

I change it.

 

 

 

When I look at your math, I see you are not thinking outside the box. You

 

think only acupuncture is in your scope of practice. I make $200-400 per

 

patient. And I do this by practicing in my complete scope of practice and I

 

lament that the schools do not teach what is in our scope. If they continue

 

to do that, these things will be taken out of our scope of practice. Again,

 

I no longer share what I do with others. It is usually unappreciated and the

 

ideas are stolen and then marketed as their own. No thank you. I'll teach

 

it, but I'll get a percentage of future earnings with a written contract.

 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com

 

 

 

Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:40:23 -0800

 

 

 

Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

Donald,

 

 

 

You have written that you make $600 G/ year ...

 

 

 

is that with hiring other acupuncturists or other practitioners?

 

 

 

Did you take a practice mgmt course?

 

 

 

Doing the math, it would be very difficult to make that much $,

 

 

 

even seeing 60 patients/ week at $100/tx = $300 G/ year.

 

 

 

How do you do it?

 

 

 

K

 

 

 

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> Private practice is very much better if you have the patients. The sad but

 

 

 

> untold story is that many acupuncturists don't have the patients to make a

 

 

 

> decent living. That is why the median income of an acupuncturist is around

 

 

 

> $35,000/yr. However, for those of us that have the patients to stay busy

 

> 8,

 

 

 

> 10, 12 hours a day can and do make a nice living. For those who don't or

 

 

 

> can't generate a nice patient base, working for $50,000/yr is a good deal.

 

 

 

> However, there are some of us that can generate salaries that exceed what

 

 

 

> many MD's make. That is not the norm, and is on the other end of the

 

> scale.

 

 

 

> Median is in between the high and the low and the mean will be different

 

 

 

> than the median.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> It comes down to who can and can't generate a large patient base. If you

 

 

 

> can't, take the salary and be happy. Actually, you will be lucky to find a

 

 

 

> salaried position. They historically haven't been there for us.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> <Traditional_

 

> Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

 

 

 

> angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

 

 

 

> Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:58:07 -0800

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> I worked in a hospital based clinic in Colorado and all master's level

 

 

 

> licensees, including acupuncturists, received between $55,000 and $65,000

 

> a

 

 

 

> year depending on experience, plus generous benefits for health care,

 

 

 

> education, retirement, etc.

 

 

 

> The main question is, do you get paid regardless of whether the client

 

 

 

> shows up or not.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> Regards,

 

 

 

> Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> www.InnerhealthSale m.com

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> Phone: 503 364 3022

 

 

 

> -

 

 

 

> Robert Chu

 

 

 

> <Traditional_

 

> Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

 

 

 

> Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:11 PM

 

 

 

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> $26.66 per hour when I worked at St. Vincent Hospital in Los Angeles. It

 

 

 

> was paltry.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> In private practice its much better.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Julie Ormonde <cariadanam@ gmail.

 

> com<cariadanam% 40gmail.com> >

 

 

 

> wrote:

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> > Hi I have a job opportunity by an MD and she is wanting to know what a

 

 

 

> > typical salary/hourly rate for an acupuncturist is. I'd appreciate some

 

 

 

> > quick input! This is for Sacramento, Ca

 

 

 

> >

 

 

 

> > Thanks

 

 

 

> > Julie

 

 

 

> >

 

 

 

> >

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

Hi Don, I am not pretending to be familiar, or anything, and if I am a pain,

tell me. But you are really successful, really.  But, and a big but, aside from

money, and for those coming into this field, what is it like inserting a needle?

You have your own diagnostics and methodology, and like you, some I have sworn

to keep secret. However, this is the age of discovery, the new enlightenment. I

will honor my teachers, and will give what I can.

 Again, Mr. Snow, you are doing it, tell us a story. Anything you want to say.

This group is very private, and just practitioners. People who see somehow, that

a prick in the elbow or knee is one of the most profound sciences of medicine.

Intent.

 

--- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote:

Donald Snow <don83407

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Thursday, February 26, 2009, 6:10 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What is hurting the field are so-called masters that go around giving seminars

and have huge followings. They are unable to maintain a busy practice, so

instead hype themselves or have themselves hyped to sell to those within the

profession. If they had such successful and busy practices they wouldn't have

the time to go around the country teaching our peers. In actuality, there are

no secrets in acupuncture. Really, often one must learn proper needle depth.

In school I noticed many students and practitioners using one inch needles in

areas that really required 3 to 6 inch needles.

 

 

 

Now to answer your main question. Yes, insurance pays for a great deal of my

treatments. But probably 1/3 of my patients are cash. They used to take out

loans for the treatments but now I use Care Credit. But insurance pays for most

of what I do.

 

 

 

Hope this helps,

 

 

 

Dr. Don Snow DAOM, LAc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ykcul_ritsym@

 

Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:59:43 -0800

 

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

Hi Don. Can I ask you if insurance reimbusement is a part, big or small, of your

ability, or the patient's ability to afford to pay so much?

 

I was going to practice on NYC near Spanish Harlem for a while. But it was a

rehab chop shop, and within 40 minutes of arrival, the patient had chiropractic,

acupuncture, interview w a Doc, etc., whatever they could through at them and

get reimbursed for. Eventually the laws got tightened, I guess cause some people

whined that the russians were getting too greedy and flagrant. That's when the

NY acup exodus happened.

 

Sound like you have a premier spot, and that's great! They wouldn't come if you

weren't helping. I end up giving it away half the time becuase no insurance, no

money, but, I never got into this for the money anyway. Still, it would make

things grow.

 

Many people, esp new, would probably benefit from advice from you. Of course

don't give it all away, but things that might help or inspire. The practice

protectionist mind that I sometimes see within our little craft is hurting the

field as a whole.

 

 

 

--- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

 

Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com>

 

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

traditional_ chinese_medicine

 

Thursday, February 26, 2009, 2:25 PM

 

 

 

No, I currently am working alone with 3 assistants. However, I am taking

interviews for an associate that wants a salary and a percentage. That $600,000

is not all mine. After overhead and the MD's share, I make around $225-250,000.

I recently interviewed an acupuncturist right out of school and made her an

offer that she accepted. Then in a couple of days when s/he thought of what I

was making started making noise for more money. It's a shame. No track record at

all, but some people think they are going to make a million right out of school.

I guess I'm going to have to continue looking. Maybe it would be better to look

for someone with the experience of reality.

 

 

 

But getting back to the subject. While most of my patients come by word-of

mouth. I do keep my name in the public's eye continually. I buy radio,

television, and newpaper time and that gets expensive. Yesterday I cut a new

commercial at the local radio station. If one doesn't work or stops working, I

change it.

 

 

 

When I look at your math, I see you are not thinking outside the box. You think

only acupuncture is in your scope of practice. I make $200-400 per patient. And

I do this by practicing in my complete scope of practice and I lament that the

schools do not teach what is in our scope. If they continue to do that, these

things will be taken out of our scope of practice. Again, I no longer share what

I do with others. It is usually unappreciated and the ideas are stolen and then

marketed as their own. No thank you. I'll teach it, but I'll get a percentage of

future earnings with a written contract.

 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com

 

 

 

Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:40:23 -0800

 

 

 

Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

Donald,

 

 

 

You have written that you make $600 G/ year ...

 

 

 

is that with hiring other acupuncturists or other practitioners?

 

 

 

Did you take a practice mgmt course?

 

 

 

Doing the math, it would be very difficult to make that much $,

 

 

 

even seeing 60 patients/ week at $100/tx = $300 G/ year.

 

 

 

How do you do it?

 

 

 

K

 

 

 

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> Private practice is very much better if you have the patients. The sad but

 

 

 

> untold story is that many acupuncturists don't have the patients to make a

 

 

 

> decent living. That is why the median income of an acupuncturist is around

 

 

 

> $35,000/yr. However, for those of us that have the patients to stay busy 8,

 

 

 

> 10, 12 hours a day can and do make a nice living. For those who don't or

 

 

 

> can't generate a nice patient base, working for $50,000/yr is a good deal.

 

 

 

> However, there are some of us that can generate salaries that exceed what

 

 

 

> many MD's make. That is not the norm, and is on the other end of the scale.

 

 

 

> Median is in between the high and the low and the mean will be different

 

 

 

> than the median.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> It comes down to who can and can't generate a large patient base. If you

 

 

 

> can't, take the salary and be happy. Actually, you will be lucky to find a

 

 

 

> salaried position. They historically haven't been there for us.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> <Traditional_

Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

 

 

 

> angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

 

 

 

> Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:58:07 -0800

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> I worked in a hospital based clinic in Colorado and all master's level

 

 

 

> licensees, including acupuncturists, received between $55,000 and $65,000 a

 

 

 

> year depending on experience, plus generous benefits for health care,

 

 

 

> education, retirement, etc.

 

 

 

> The main question is, do you get paid regardless of whether the client

 

 

 

> shows up or not.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> Regards,

 

 

 

> Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> www.InnerhealthSale m.com

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> Phone: 503 364 3022

 

 

 

> -

 

 

 

> Robert Chu

 

 

 

> <Traditional_

Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

 

 

 

> Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:11 PM

 

 

 

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> $26.66 per hour when I worked at St. Vincent Hospital in Los Angeles. It

 

 

 

> was paltry.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> In private practice its much better.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Julie Ormonde <cariadanam@ gmail.

com<cariadanam% 40gmail.com> >

 

 

 

> wrote:

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> > Hi I have a job opportunity by an MD and she is wanting to know what a

 

 

 

> > typical salary/hourly rate for an acupuncturist is. I'd appreciate some

 

 

 

> > quick input! This is for Sacramento, Ca

 

 

 

> >

 

 

 

> > Thanks

 

 

 

> > Julie

 

 

 

> >

 

 

 

> >

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

 I guess that does sound scary, but they are used usually in the buttocks at

certain points for large people, for back, hip, or leg problems, or  for

threading (superficial horizontal insertion)to connect several points or areas

simultaneously. eg, along the spine, or scalp, sometimes like the barefoot

doctor method. Not more painful, once you are used to the feeling where they

slide easily just beneath the skin.

 

--- On Fri, 2/27/09, Mercurius Trismegistus <magisterium_magnum

wrote:

Mercurius Trismegistus <magisterium_magnum

Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

Chinese Medicine

Friday, February 27, 2009, 5:06 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm a newbie, and I'm afraid to use 6 inch needles.

 

 

 

-

 

" mystir " <ykcul_ritsym@ >

 

<Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine >

 

Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:30 PM

 

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

It does help, and I agree with you about some teachers. Depth is different,

 

so you had other teachers, too, outside the sneak up like a cat japanese,

 

and 5 element. Still Don, just little things you told me, c'mon, I already

 

have 6 " needles, but the newbies are timid. I'm not successful like you,

 

but you can teach, inspire. Thanks for responding. Peace brother.

 

 

 

--- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

 

Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com>

 

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

traditional_ chinese_medicine

 

Thursday, February 26, 2009, 6:10 PM

 

 

 

What is hurting the field are so-called masters that go around giving

 

seminars and have huge followings. They are unable to maintain a busy

 

practice, so instead hype themselves or have themselves hyped to sell to

 

those within the profession. If they had such successful and busy practices

 

they wouldn't have the time to go around the country teaching our peers. In

 

actuality, there are no secrets in acupuncture. Really, often one must

 

learn proper needle depth. In school I noticed many students and

 

practitioners using one inch needles in areas that really required 3 to 6

 

inch needles.

 

 

 

Now to answer your main question. Yes, insurance pays for a great deal of

 

my treatments. But probably 1/3 of my patients are cash. They used to take

 

out loans for the treatments but now I use Care Credit. But insurance pays

 

for most of what I do.

 

 

 

Hope this helps,

 

 

 

Dr. Don Snow DAOM, LAc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ykcul_ritsym@

 

 

 

Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:59:43 -0800

 

 

 

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

Hi Don. Can I ask you if insurance reimbusement is a part, big or small, of

 

your ability, or the patient's ability to afford to pay so much?

 

 

 

I was going to practice on NYC near Spanish Harlem for a while. But it was

 

a rehab chop shop, and within 40 minutes of arrival, the patient had

 

chiropractic, acupuncture, interview w a Doc, etc., whatever they could

 

through at them and get reimbursed for. Eventually the laws got tightened, I

 

guess cause some people whined that the russians were getting too greedy and

 

flagrant. That's when the NY acup exodus happened.

 

 

 

Sound like you have a premier spot, and that's great! They wouldn't come if

 

you weren't helping. I end up giving it away half the time becuase no

 

insurance, no money, but, I never got into this for the money anyway. Still,

 

it would make things grow.

 

 

 

Many people, esp new, would probably benefit from advice from you. Of

 

course don't give it all away, but things that might help or inspire. The

 

practice protectionist mind that I sometimes see within our little craft is

 

hurting the field as a whole.

 

 

 

--- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com>

 

 

 

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

traditional_ chinese_medicine

 

 

 

Thursday, February 26, 2009, 2:25 PM

 

 

 

No, I currently am working alone with 3 assistants. However, I am taking

 

interviews for an associate that wants a salary and a percentage. That

 

$600,000 is not all mine. After overhead and the MD's share, I make around

 

$225-250,000. I recently interviewed an acupuncturist right out of school

 

and made her an offer that she accepted. Then in a couple of days when s/he

 

thought of what I was making started making noise for more money. It's a

 

shame. No track record at all, but some people think they are going to make

 

a million right out of school. I guess I'm going to have to continue

 

looking. Maybe it would be better to look for someone with the experience of

 

reality.

 

 

 

But getting back to the subject. While most of my patients come by word-of

 

mouth. I do keep my name in the public's eye continually. I buy radio,

 

television, and newpaper time and that gets expensive. Yesterday I cut a new

 

commercial at the local radio station. If one doesn't work or stops working,

 

I change it.

 

 

 

When I look at your math, I see you are not thinking outside the box. You

 

think only acupuncture is in your scope of practice. I make $200-400 per

 

patient. And I do this by practicing in my complete scope of practice and I

 

lament that the schools do not teach what is in our scope. If they continue

 

to do that, these things will be taken out of our scope of practice. Again,

 

I no longer share what I do with others. It is usually unappreciated and the

 

ideas are stolen and then marketed as their own. No thank you. I'll teach

 

it, but I'll get a percentage of future earnings with a written contract.

 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com

 

 

 

Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:40:23 -0800

 

 

 

Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

Donald,

 

 

 

You have written that you make $600 G/ year ...

 

 

 

is that with hiring other acupuncturists or other practitioners?

 

 

 

Did you take a practice mgmt course?

 

 

 

Doing the math, it would be very difficult to make that much $,

 

 

 

even seeing 60 patients/ week at $100/tx = $300 G/ year.

 

 

 

How do you do it?

 

 

 

K

 

 

 

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> Private practice is very much better if you have the patients. The sad but

 

 

 

> untold story is that many acupuncturists don't have the patients to make a

 

 

 

> decent living. That is why the median income of an acupuncturist is around

 

 

 

> $35,000/yr. However, for those of us that have the patients to stay busy

 

> 8,

 

 

 

> 10, 12 hours a day can and do make a nice living. For those who don't or

 

 

 

> can't generate a nice patient base, working for $50,000/yr is a good deal.

 

 

 

> However, there are some of us that can generate salaries that exceed what

 

 

 

> many MD's make. That is not the norm, and is on the other end of the

 

> scale.

 

 

 

> Median is in between the high and the low and the mean will be different

 

 

 

> than the median.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> It comes down to who can and can't generate a large patient base. If you

 

 

 

> can't, take the salary and be happy. Actually, you will be lucky to find a

 

 

 

> salaried position. They historically haven't been there for us.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> <Traditional_

 

> Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

 

 

 

> angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

 

 

 

> Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:58:07 -0800

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> I worked in a hospital based clinic in Colorado and all master's level

 

 

 

> licensees, including acupuncturists, received between $55,000 and $65,000

 

> a

 

 

 

> year depending on experience, plus generous benefits for health care,

 

 

 

> education, retirement, etc.

 

 

 

> The main question is, do you get paid regardless of whether the client

 

 

 

> shows up or not.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> Regards,

 

 

 

> Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> www.InnerhealthSale m.com

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> Phone: 503 364 3022

 

 

 

> -

 

 

 

> Robert Chu

 

 

 

> <Traditional_

 

> Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

 

 

 

> Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:11 PM

 

 

 

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> $26.66 per hour when I worked at St. Vincent Hospital in Los Angeles. It

 

 

 

> was paltry.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> In private practice its much better.

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Julie Ormonde <cariadanam@ gmail.

 

> com<cariadanam% 40gmail.com> >

 

 

 

> wrote:

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

> > Hi I have a job opportunity by an MD and she is wanting to know what a

 

 

 

> > typical salary/hourly rate for an acupuncturist is. I'd appreciate some

 

 

 

> > quick input! This is for Sacramento, Ca

 

 

 

> >

 

 

 

> > Thanks

 

 

 

> > Julie

 

 

 

> >

 

 

 

> >

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

Don,

 

$200-$250 K/ year is definitely doable.

I have a couple friends who are doing that.

I was just wondering about the $600 K that was stated earlier.

 

Best,

Kokko

 

 

 

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 2:06 AM, Mercurius Trismegistus <

magisterium_magnum wrote:

 

> I'm a newbie, and I'm afraid to use 6 inch needles.

>

>

> -

> " mystir " <ykcul_ritsym <ykcul_ritsym%40>>

> To:

<Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yah\

oogroups.com>

> >

> Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:30 PM

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> It does help, and I agree with you about some teachers. Depth is different,

>

> so you had other teachers, too, outside the sneak up like a cat japanese,

> and 5 element. Still Don, just little things you told me, c'mon, I already

> have 6 " needles, but the newbies are timid. I'm not successful like you,

> but you can teach, inspire. Thanks for responding. Peace brother.

>

> --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 <don83407%40msn.com>>

> wrote:

> Donald Snow <don83407 <don83407%40msn.com>>

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

> To:

Chinese Traditional Medicine <Chinese Traditional Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> Thursday, February 26, 2009, 6:10 PM

>

> What is hurting the field are so-called masters that go around giving

> seminars and have huge followings. They are unable to maintain a busy

> practice, so instead hype themselves or have themselves hyped to sell to

> those within the profession. If they had such successful and busy practices

>

> they wouldn't have the time to go around the country teaching our peers. In

>

> actuality, there are no secrets in acupuncture. Really, often one must

> learn proper needle depth. In school I noticed many students and

> practitioners using one inch needles in areas that really required 3 to 6

> inch needles.

>

> Now to answer your main question. Yes, insurance pays for a great deal of

> my treatments. But probably 1/3 of my patients are cash. They used to take

> out loans for the treatments but now I use Care Credit. But insurance pays

> for most of what I do.

>

> Hope this helps,

>

> Dr. Don Snow DAOM, LAc

>

>

>

> ykcul_ritsym@

>

> Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:59:43 -0800

>

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> Hi Don. Can I ask you if insurance reimbusement is a part, big or small, of

>

> your ability, or the patient's ability to afford to pay so much?

>

> I was going to practice on NYC near Spanish Harlem for a while. But it was

> a rehab chop shop, and within 40 minutes of arrival, the patient had

> chiropractic, acupuncture, interview w a Doc, etc., whatever they could

> through at them and get reimbursed for. Eventually the laws got tightened,

> I

> guess cause some people whined that the russians were getting too greedy

> and

> flagrant. That's when the NY acup exodus happened.

>

> Sound like you have a premier spot, and that's great! They wouldn't come if

>

> you weren't helping. I end up giving it away half the time becuase no

> insurance, no money, but, I never got into this for the money anyway.

> Still,

> it would make things grow.

>

> Many people, esp new, would probably benefit from advice from you. Of

> course don't give it all away, but things that might help or inspire. The

> practice protectionist mind that I sometimes see within our little craft is

>

> hurting the field as a whole.

>

> --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

>

> Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com>

>

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> traditional_ chinese_medicine

>

> Thursday, February 26, 2009, 2:25 PM

>

> No, I currently am working alone with 3 assistants. However, I am taking

> interviews for an associate that wants a salary and a percentage. That

> $600,000 is not all mine. After overhead and the MD's share, I make around

> $225-250,000. I recently interviewed an acupuncturist right out of school

> and made her an offer that she accepted. Then in a couple of days when s/he

>

> thought of what I was making started making noise for more money. It's a

> shame. No track record at all, but some people think they are going to make

>

> a million right out of school. I guess I'm going to have to continue

> looking. Maybe it would be better to look for someone with the experience

> of

> reality.

>

> But getting back to the subject. While most of my patients come by word-of

> mouth. I do keep my name in the public's eye continually. I buy radio,

> television, and newpaper time and that gets expensive. Yesterday I cut a

> new

> commercial at the local radio station. If one doesn't work or stops

> working,

> I change it.

>

> When I look at your math, I see you are not thinking outside the box. You

> think only acupuncture is in your scope of practice. I make $200-400 per

> patient. And I do this by practicing in my complete scope of practice and I

>

> lament that the schools do not teach what is in our scope. If they continue

>

> to do that, these things will be taken out of our scope of practice. Again,

>

> I no longer share what I do with others. It is usually unappreciated and

> the

> ideas are stolen and then marketed as their own. No thank you. I'll teach

> it, but I'll get a percentage of future earnings with a written contract.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

>

>

>

> johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com

>

> Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:40:23 -0800

>

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> Donald,

>

> You have written that you make $600 G/ year ...

>

> is that with hiring other acupuncturists or other practitioners?

>

> Did you take a practice mgmt course?

>

> Doing the math, it would be very difficult to make that much $,

>

> even seeing 60 patients/ week at $100/tx = $300 G/ year.

>

> How do you do it?

>

> K

>

> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Private practice is very much better if you have the patients. The sad

> but

>

> > untold story is that many acupuncturists don't have the patients to make

> a

>

> > decent living. That is why the median income of an acupuncturist is

> around

>

> > $35,000/yr. However, for those of us that have the patients to stay busy

> > 8,

>

> > 10, 12 hours a day can and do make a nice living. For those who don't or

>

> > can't generate a nice patient base, working for $50,000/yr is a good

> deal.

>

> > However, there are some of us that can generate salaries that exceed what

>

> > many MD's make. That is not the norm, and is on the other end of the

> > scale.

>

> > Median is in between the high and the low and the mean will be different

>

> > than the median.

>

> >

>

> > It comes down to who can and can't generate a large patient base. If you

>

> > can't, take the salary and be happy. Actually, you will be lucky to find

> a

>

> > salaried position. They historically haven't been there for us.

>

> >

>

> > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > <Traditional_

> > Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

>

> > angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

>

> > Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:58:07 -0800

>

> >

>

> > Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> >

>

> > I worked in a hospital based clinic in Colorado and all master's level

>

> > licensees, including acupuncturists, received between $55,000 and $65,000

>

> > a

>

> > year depending on experience, plus generous benefits for health care,

>

> > education, retirement, etc.

>

> > The main question is, do you get paid regardless of whether the client

>

> > shows up or not.

>

> >

>

> > Regards,

>

> > Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D.

>

> >

>

> > angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

>

> >

>

> > www.InnerhealthSale m.com

>

> >

>

> > Phone: 503 364 3022

>

> > -

>

> > Robert Chu

>

> > <Traditional_

> > Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

>

> > Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:11 PM

>

> > Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> >

>

> > $26.66 per hour when I worked at St. Vincent Hospital in Los Angeles. It

>

> > was paltry.

>

> >

>

> > In private practice its much better.

>

> >

>

> > On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Julie Ormonde <cariadanam@ gmail.

> > com<cariadanam% 40gmail.com> >

>

> > wrote:

>

> >

>

> > > Hi I have a job opportunity by an MD and she is wanting to know what a

>

> > > typical salary/hourly rate for an acupuncturist is. I'd appreciate some

>

> > > quick input! This is for Sacramento, Ca

>

> > >

>

> > > Thanks

>

> > > Julie

>

> > >

>

> > >

Share this post

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Share on other sites

Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

Yes, and I project $800,000 to 1 mill this year. I have explained a little

about this on earlier posts and don't want to re-hash it. But these numbers are

real and very doable. I do, however, need to hire another acupuncturist and

that is what I am currently in the process of doing. I max out at around $6 to

$800K a year and I get burned out in the process. I need another arm here.

 

 

 

Dr. Don Snow

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

johnkokko

Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:12:59 -0800

Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

 

 

Don,

 

$200-$250 K/ year is definitely doable.

I have a couple friends who are doing that.

I was just wondering about the $600 K that was stated earlier.

 

Best,

Kokko

 

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 2:06 AM, Mercurius Trismegistus <

magisterium_magnum wrote:

 

> I'm a newbie, and I'm afraid to use 6 inch needles.

>

>

> -

> " mystir " <ykcul_ritsym <ykcul_ritsym%40>>

> To:

<Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yah\

oogroups.com>

> >

> Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:30 PM

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> It does help, and I agree with you about some teachers. Depth is different,

>

> so you had other teachers, too, outside the sneak up like a cat japanese,

> and 5 element. Still Don, just little things you told me, c'mon, I already

> have 6 " needles, but the newbies are timid. I'm not successful like you,

> but you can teach, inspire. Thanks for responding. Peace brother.

>

> --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 <don83407%40msn.com>>

> wrote:

> Donald Snow <don83407 <don83407%40msn.com>>

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

> To:

Chinese Traditional Medicine <Chinese Traditional Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> Thursday, February 26, 2009, 6:10 PM

>

> What is hurting the field are so-called masters that go around giving

> seminars and have huge followings. They are unable to maintain a busy

> practice, so instead hype themselves or have themselves hyped to sell to

> those within the profession. If they had such successful and busy practices

>

> they wouldn't have the time to go around the country teaching our peers. In

>

> actuality, there are no secrets in acupuncture. Really, often one must

> learn proper needle depth. In school I noticed many students and

> practitioners using one inch needles in areas that really required 3 to 6

> inch needles.

>

> Now to answer your main question. Yes, insurance pays for a great deal of

> my treatments. But probably 1/3 of my patients are cash. They used to take

> out loans for the treatments but now I use Care Credit. But insurance pays

> for most of what I do.

>

> Hope this helps,

>

> Dr. Don Snow DAOM, LAc

>

>

>

> ykcul_ritsym@

>

> Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:59:43 -0800

>

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> Hi Don. Can I ask you if insurance reimbusement is a part, big or small, of

>

> your ability, or the patient's ability to afford to pay so much?

>

> I was going to practice on NYC near Spanish Harlem for a while. But it was

> a rehab chop shop, and within 40 minutes of arrival, the patient had

> chiropractic, acupuncture, interview w a Doc, etc., whatever they could

> through at them and get reimbursed for. Eventually the laws got tightened,

> I

> guess cause some people whined that the russians were getting too greedy

> and

> flagrant. That's when the NY acup exodus happened.

>

> Sound like you have a premier spot, and that's great! They wouldn't come if

>

> you weren't helping. I end up giving it away half the time becuase no

> insurance, no money, but, I never got into this for the money anyway.

> Still,

> it would make things grow.

>

> Many people, esp new, would probably benefit from advice from you. Of

> course don't give it all away, but things that might help or inspire. The

> practice protectionist mind that I sometimes see within our little craft is

>

> hurting the field as a whole.

>

> --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

>

> Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com>

>

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> traditional_ chinese_medicine

>

> Thursday, February 26, 2009, 2:25 PM

>

> No, I currently am working alone with 3 assistants. However, I am taking

> interviews for an associate that wants a salary and a percentage. That

> $600,000 is not all mine. After overhead and the MD's share, I make around

> $225-250,000. I recently interviewed an acupuncturist right out of school

> and made her an offer that she accepted. Then in a couple of days when s/he

>

> thought of what I was making started making noise for more money. It's a

> shame. No track record at all, but some people think they are going to make

>

> a million right out of school. I guess I'm going to have to continue

> looking. Maybe it would be better to look for someone with the experience

> of

> reality.

>

> But getting back to the subject. While most of my patients come by word-of

> mouth. I do keep my name in the public's eye continually. I buy radio,

> television, and newpaper time and that gets expensive. Yesterday I cut a

> new

> commercial at the local radio station. If one doesn't work or stops

> working,

> I change it.

>

> When I look at your math, I see you are not thinking outside the box. You

> think only acupuncture is in your scope of practice. I make $200-400 per

> patient. And I do this by practicing in my complete scope of practice and I

>

> lament that the schools do not teach what is in our scope. If they continue

>

> to do that, these things will be taken out of our scope of practice. Again,

>

> I no longer share what I do with others. It is usually unappreciated and

> the

> ideas are stolen and then marketed as their own. No thank you. I'll teach

> it, but I'll get a percentage of future earnings with a written contract.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

>

>

>

> johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com

>

> Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:40:23 -0800

>

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> Donald,

>

> You have written that you make $600 G/ year ...

>

> is that with hiring other acupuncturists or other practitioners?

>

> Did you take a practice mgmt course?

>

> Doing the math, it would be very difficult to make that much $,

>

> even seeing 60 patients/ week at $100/tx = $300 G/ year.

>

> How do you do it?

>

> K

>

> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Private practice is very much better if you have the patients. The sad

> but

>

> > untold story is that many acupuncturists don't have the patients to make

> a

>

> > decent living. That is why the median income of an acupuncturist is

> around

>

> > $35,000/yr. However, for those of us that have the patients to stay busy

> > 8,

>

> > 10, 12 hours a day can and do make a nice living. For those who don't or

>

> > can't generate a nice patient base, working for $50,000/yr is a good

> deal.

>

> > However, there are some of us that can generate salaries that exceed what

>

> > many MD's make. That is not the norm, and is on the other end of the

> > scale.

>

> > Median is in between the high and the low and the mean will be different

>

> > than the median.

>

> >

>

> > It comes down to who can and can't generate a large patient base. If you

>

> > can't, take the salary and be happy. Actually, you will be lucky to find

> a

>

> > salaried position. They historically haven't been there for us.

>

> >

>

> > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > <Traditional_

> > Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

>

> > angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

>

> > Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:58:07 -0800

>

> >

>

> > Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> >

>

> > I worked in a hospital based clinic in Colorado and all master's level

>

> > licensees, including acupuncturists, received between $55,000 and $65,000

>

> > a

>

> > year depending on experience, plus generous benefits for health care,

>

> > education, retirement, etc.

>

> > The main question is, do you get paid regardless of whether the client

>

> > shows up or not.

>

> >

>

> > Regards,

>

> > Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D.

>

> >

>

> > angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

>

> >

>

> > www.InnerhealthSale m.com

>

> >

>

> > Phone: 503 364 3022

>

> > -

>

> > Robert Chu

>

> > <Traditional_

> > Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

>

> > Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:11 PM

>

> > Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> >

>

> > $26.66 per hour when I worked at St. Vincent Hospital in Los Angeles. It

>

> > was paltry.

>

> >

>

> > In private practice its much better.

>

> >

>

> > On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Julie Ormonde <cariadanam@ gmail.

> > com<cariadanam% 40gmail.com> >

>

> > wrote:

>

> >

>

> > > Hi I have a job opportunity by an MD and she is wanting to know what a

>

> > > typical salary/hourly rate for an acupuncturist is. I'd appreciate some

>

> > > quick input! This is for Sacramento, Ca

>

> > >

>

> > > Thanks

>

> > > Julie

>

> > >

>

> > >

Share this post

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

Your gross revenue to income ratio sounds unimpressive. I stick to a business

model where you make $ 250,000 a year and expect to retain close to $200,000.

It's about $8,000 in advertising, $25,000 in salaries, and $12,000 in rent,

$6,000 for the rest; 60 clients a week, 4 days a week. Why are you killing

yourself to make all that money if you can't retain it? I am also thinking about

bringing in another AC. My main reason is that it really makes it a lot easier

to go on vacation, and we can be open 5 days a week which will help, and it will

increase the revenue more than it will cost me.

I think when I hire my main emphasis will be on working with someone I have good

rapport with, whom I genuinely enjoy in my clinic, and whom I expect to stay

long-term. I will offer either $30 an hour or 50% of revenue, whatever the hiree

prefers.

 

Regards,

Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D.

 

angelapfa

 

www.InnerhealthSalem.com

 

Phone: 503 364 3022

-

Donald Snow

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Friday, February 27, 2009 12:47 PM

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

Yes, and I project $800,000 to 1 mill this year. I have explained a little

about this on earlier posts and don't want to re-hash it. But these numbers are

real and very doable. I do, however, need to hire another acupuncturist and that

is what I am currently in the process of doing. I max out at around $6 to $800K

a year and I get burned out in the process. I need another arm here.

 

Dr. Don Snow

 

Chinese Medicine

johnkokko

Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:12:59 -0800

Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

Don,

 

$200-$250 K/ year is definitely doable.

I have a couple friends who are doing that.

I was just wondering about the $600 K that was stated earlier.

 

Best,

Kokko

 

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 2:06 AM, Mercurius Trismegistus <

magisterium_magnum wrote:

 

> I'm a newbie, and I'm afraid to use 6 inch needles.

>

>

> -

> " mystir " <ykcul_ritsym <ykcul_ritsym%40>>

> To:

<Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yah\

oogroups.com>

> >

> Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:30 PM

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> It does help, and I agree with you about some teachers. Depth is different,

>

> so you had other teachers, too, outside the sneak up like a cat japanese,

> and 5 element. Still Don, just little things you told me, c'mon, I already

> have 6 " needles, but the newbies are timid. I'm not successful like you,

> but you can teach, inspire. Thanks for responding. Peace brother.

>

> --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 <don83407%40msn.com>>

> wrote:

> Donald Snow <don83407 <don83407%40msn.com>>

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

> To:

Chinese Traditional Medicine <Chinese Traditional Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> Thursday, February 26, 2009, 6:10 PM

>

> What is hurting the field are so-called masters that go around giving

> seminars and have huge followings. They are unable to maintain a busy

> practice, so instead hype themselves or have themselves hyped to sell to

> those within the profession. If they had such successful and busy practices

>

> they wouldn't have the time to go around the country teaching our peers. In

>

> actuality, there are no secrets in acupuncture. Really, often one must

> learn proper needle depth. In school I noticed many students and

> practitioners using one inch needles in areas that really required 3 to 6

> inch needles.

>

> Now to answer your main question. Yes, insurance pays for a great deal of

> my treatments. But probably 1/3 of my patients are cash. They used to take

> out loans for the treatments but now I use Care Credit. But insurance pays

> for most of what I do.

>

> Hope this helps,

>

> Dr. Don Snow DAOM, LAc

>

>

>

> ykcul_ritsym@

>

> Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:59:43 -0800

>

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> Hi Don. Can I ask you if insurance reimbusement is a part, big or small, of

>

> your ability, or the patient's ability to afford to pay so much?

>

> I was going to practice on NYC near Spanish Harlem for a while. But it was

> a rehab chop shop, and within 40 minutes of arrival, the patient had

> chiropractic, acupuncture, interview w a Doc, etc., whatever they could

> through at them and get reimbursed for. Eventually the laws got tightened,

> I

> guess cause some people whined that the russians were getting too greedy

> and

> flagrant. That's when the NY acup exodus happened.

>

> Sound like you have a premier spot, and that's great! They wouldn't come if

>

> you weren't helping. I end up giving it away half the time becuase no

> insurance, no money, but, I never got into this for the money anyway.

> Still,

> it would make things grow.

>

> Many people, esp new, would probably benefit from advice from you. Of

> course don't give it all away, but things that might help or inspire. The

> practice protectionist mind that I sometimes see within our little craft is

>

> hurting the field as a whole.

>

> --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

>

> Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com>

>

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> traditional_ chinese_medicine

>

> Thursday, February 26, 2009, 2:25 PM

>

> No, I currently am working alone with 3 assistants. However, I am taking

> interviews for an associate that wants a salary and a percentage. That

> $600,000 is not all mine. After overhead and the MD's share, I make around

> $225-250,000. I recently interviewed an acupuncturist right out of school

> and made her an offer that she accepted. Then in a couple of days when s/he

>

> thought of what I was making started making noise for more money. It's a

> shame. No track record at all, but some people think they are going to make

>

> a million right out of school. I guess I'm going to have to continue

> looking. Maybe it would be better to look for someone with the experience

> of

> reality.

>

> But getting back to the subject. While most of my patients come by word-of

> mouth. I do keep my name in the public's eye continually. I buy radio,

> television, and newpaper time and that gets expensive. Yesterday I cut a

> new

> commercial at the local radio station. If one doesn't work or stops

> working,

> I change it.

>

> When I look at your math, I see you are not thinking outside the box. You

> think only acupuncture is in your scope of practice. I make $200-400 per

> patient. And I do this by practicing in my complete scope of practice and I

>

> lament that the schools do not teach what is in our scope. If they continue

>

> to do that, these things will be taken out of our scope of practice. Again,

>

> I no longer share what I do with others. It is usually unappreciated and

> the

> ideas are stolen and then marketed as their own. No thank you. I'll teach

> it, but I'll get a percentage of future earnings with a written contract.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

>

>

>

> johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com

>

> Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:40:23 -0800

>

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> Donald,

>

> You have written that you make $600 G/ year ...

>

> is that with hiring other acupuncturists or other practitioners?

>

> Did you take a practice mgmt course?

>

> Doing the math, it would be very difficult to make that much $,

>

> even seeing 60 patients/ week at $100/tx = $300 G/ year.

>

> How do you do it?

>

> K

>

> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Private practice is very much better if you have the patients. The sad

> but

>

> > untold story is that many acupuncturists don't have the patients to make

> a

>

> > decent living. That is why the median income of an acupuncturist is

> around

>

> > $35,000/yr. However, for those of us that have the patients to stay busy

> > 8,

>

> > 10, 12 hours a day can and do make a nice living. For those who don't or

>

> > can't generate a nice patient base, working for $50,000/yr is a good

> deal.

>

> > However, there are some of us that can generate salaries that exceed what

>

> > many MD's make. That is not the norm, and is on the other end of the

> > scale.

>

> > Median is in between the high and the low and the mean will be different

>

> > than the median.

>

> >

>

> > It comes down to who can and can't generate a large patient base. If you

>

> > can't, take the salary and be happy. Actually, you will be lucky to find

> a

>

> > salaried position. They historically haven't been there for us.

>

> >

>

> > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > <Traditional_

> > Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

>

> > angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

>

> > Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:58:07 -0800

>

> >

>

> > Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> >

>

> > I worked in a hospital based clinic in Colorado and all master's level

>

> > licensees, including acupuncturists, received between $55,000 and $65,000

>

> > a

>

> > year depending on experience, plus generous benefits for health care,

>

> > education, retirement, etc.

>

> > The main question is, do you get paid regardless of whether the client

>

> > shows up or not.

>

> >

>

> > Regards,

>

> > Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D.

>

> >

>

> > angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

>

> >

>

> > www.InnerhealthSale m.com

>

> >

>

> > Phone: 503 364 3022

>

> > -

>

> > Robert Chu

>

> > <Traditional_

> > Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

>

> > Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:11 PM

>

> > Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> >

>

> > $26.66 per hour when I worked at St. Vincent Hospital in Los Angeles. It

>

> > was paltry.

>

> >

>

> > In private practice its much better.

>

> >

>

> > On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Julie Ormonde <cariadanam@ gmail.

> > com<cariadanam% 40gmail.com> >

>

> > wrote:

>

> >

>

> > > Hi I have a job opportunity by an MD and she is wanting to know what a

>

> > > typical salary/hourly rate for an acupuncturist is. I'd appreciate some

>

> > > quick input! This is for Sacramento, Ca

>

> > >

>

> > > Thanks

>

> > > Julie

>

> > >

>

> > >

Share this post

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

If you're making $250,000 and keeping $200,000 my hat's off to you. I have an

office staff of 6, a business manager, and overhead in equipment to pay for,

plus I pay an M.D. for the priveledge of using his license so that I can bill.

I know a lot of people with similar business models but they are not actually

making much money. But they claim they would if they saw enough paitents. You

may not be impressed with a $250,000 per year salary, but I'm making it and

every day I feel blessed to do it. Also, I have never seen an acupuncturist

seeing only 60 patients a week making that kind of money. Again Dr. Angela, my

hat's off to you. Keep it up.

 

 

 

Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac.

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

angelapfa

Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:43:46 -0800

Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

 

 

Your gross revenue to income ratio sounds unimpressive. I stick to a business

model where you make $ 250,000 a year and expect to retain close to $200,000.

It's about $8,000 in advertising, $25,000 in salaries, and $12,000 in rent,

$6,000 for the rest; 60 clients a week, 4 days a week. Why are you killing

yourself to make all that money if you can't retain it? I am also thinking about

bringing in another AC. My main reason is that it really makes it a lot easier

to go on vacation, and we can be open 5 days a week which will help, and it will

increase the revenue more than it will cost me.

I think when I hire my main emphasis will be on working with someone I have good

rapport with, whom I genuinely enjoy in my clinic, and whom I expect to stay

long-term. I will offer either $30 an hour or 50% of revenue, whatever the hiree

prefers.

 

Regards,

Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D.

 

angelapfa

 

www.InnerhealthSalem.com

 

Phone: 503 364 3022

-

Donald Snow

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Friday, February 27, 2009 12:47 PM

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

Yes, and I project $800,000 to 1 mill this year. I have explained a little about

this on earlier posts and don't want to re-hash it. But these numbers are real

and very doable. I do, however, need to hire another acupuncturist and that is

what I am currently in the process of doing. I max out at around $6 to $800K a

year and I get burned out in the process. I need another arm here.

 

Dr. Don Snow

 

Chinese Medicine

johnkokko

Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:12:59 -0800

Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

Don,

 

$200-$250 K/ year is definitely doable.

I have a couple friends who are doing that.

I was just wondering about the $600 K that was stated earlier.

 

Best,

Kokko

 

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 2:06 AM, Mercurius Trismegistus <

magisterium_magnum wrote:

 

> I'm a newbie, and I'm afraid to use 6 inch needles.

>

>

> -

> " mystir " <ykcul_ritsym <ykcul_ritsym%40>>

> To:

<Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yah\

oogroups.com>

> >

> Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:30 PM

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> It does help, and I agree with you about some teachers. Depth is different,

>

> so you had other teachers, too, outside the sneak up like a cat japanese,

> and 5 element. Still Don, just little things you told me, c'mon, I already

> have 6 " needles, but the newbies are timid. I'm not successful like you,

> but you can teach, inspire. Thanks for responding. Peace brother.

>

> --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 <don83407%40msn.com>>

> wrote:

> Donald Snow <don83407 <don83407%40msn.com>>

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

> To:

Chinese Traditional Medicine <Chinese Traditional Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> Thursday, February 26, 2009, 6:10 PM

>

> What is hurting the field are so-called masters that go around giving

> seminars and have huge followings. They are unable to maintain a busy

> practice, so instead hype themselves or have themselves hyped to sell to

> those within the profession. If they had such successful and busy practices

>

> they wouldn't have the time to go around the country teaching our peers. In

>

> actuality, there are no secrets in acupuncture. Really, often one must

> learn proper needle depth. In school I noticed many students and

> practitioners using one inch needles in areas that really required 3 to 6

> inch needles.

>

> Now to answer your main question. Yes, insurance pays for a great deal of

> my treatments. But probably 1/3 of my patients are cash. They used to take

> out loans for the treatments but now I use Care Credit. But insurance pays

> for most of what I do.

>

> Hope this helps,

>

> Dr. Don Snow DAOM, LAc

>

>

>

> ykcul_ritsym@

>

> Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:59:43 -0800

>

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> Hi Don. Can I ask you if insurance reimbusement is a part, big or small, of

>

> your ability, or the patient's ability to afford to pay so much?

>

> I was going to practice on NYC near Spanish Harlem for a while. But it was

> a rehab chop shop, and within 40 minutes of arrival, the patient had

> chiropractic, acupuncture, interview w a Doc, etc., whatever they could

> through at them and get reimbursed for. Eventually the laws got tightened,

> I

> guess cause some people whined that the russians were getting too greedy

> and

> flagrant. That's when the NY acup exodus happened.

>

> Sound like you have a premier spot, and that's great! They wouldn't come if

>

> you weren't helping. I end up giving it away half the time becuase no

> insurance, no money, but, I never got into this for the money anyway.

> Still,

> it would make things grow.

>

> Many people, esp new, would probably benefit from advice from you. Of

> course don't give it all away, but things that might help or inspire. The

> practice protectionist mind that I sometimes see within our little craft is

>

> hurting the field as a whole.

>

> --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

>

> Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com>

>

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> traditional_ chinese_medicine

>

> Thursday, February 26, 2009, 2:25 PM

>

> No, I currently am working alone with 3 assistants. However, I am taking

> interviews for an associate that wants a salary and a percentage. That

> $600,000 is not all mine. After overhead and the MD's share, I make around

> $225-250,000. I recently interviewed an acupuncturist right out of school

> and made her an offer that she accepted. Then in a couple of days when s/he

>

> thought of what I was making started making noise for more money. It's a

> shame. No track record at all, but some people think they are going to make

>

> a million right out of school. I guess I'm going to have to continue

> looking. Maybe it would be better to look for someone with the experience

> of

> reality.

>

> But getting back to the subject. While most of my patients come by word-of

> mouth. I do keep my name in the public's eye continually. I buy radio,

> television, and newpaper time and that gets expensive. Yesterday I cut a

> new

> commercial at the local radio station. If one doesn't work or stops

> working,

> I change it.

>

> When I look at your math, I see you are not thinking outside the box. You

> think only acupuncture is in your scope of practice. I make $200-400 per

> patient. And I do this by practicing in my complete scope of practice and I

>

> lament that the schools do not teach what is in our scope. If they continue

>

> to do that, these things will be taken out of our scope of practice. Again,

>

> I no longer share what I do with others. It is usually unappreciated and

> the

> ideas are stolen and then marketed as their own. No thank you. I'll teach

> it, but I'll get a percentage of future earnings with a written contract.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

>

>

>

> johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com

>

> Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:40:23 -0800

>

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> Donald,

>

> You have written that you make $600 G/ year ...

>

> is that with hiring other acupuncturists or other practitioners?

>

> Did you take a practice mgmt course?

>

> Doing the math, it would be very difficult to make that much $,

>

> even seeing 60 patients/ week at $100/tx = $300 G/ year.

>

> How do you do it?

>

> K

>

> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Private practice is very much better if you have the patients. The sad

> but

>

> > untold story is that many acupuncturists don't have the patients to make

> a

>

> > decent living. That is why the median income of an acupuncturist is

> around

>

> > $35,000/yr. However, for those of us that have the patients to stay busy

> > 8,

>

> > 10, 12 hours a day can and do make a nice living. For those who don't or

>

> > can't generate a nice patient base, working for $50,000/yr is a good

> deal.

>

> > However, there are some of us that can generate salaries that exceed what

>

> > many MD's make. That is not the norm, and is on the other end of the

> > scale.

>

> > Median is in between the high and the low and the mean will be different

>

> > than the median.

>

> >

>

> > It comes down to who can and can't generate a large patient base. If you

>

> > can't, take the salary and be happy. Actually, you will be lucky to find

> a

>

> > salaried position. They historically haven't been there for us.

>

> >

>

> > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > <Traditional_

> > Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

>

> > angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

>

> > Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:58:07 -0800

>

> >

>

> > Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> >

>

> > I worked in a hospital based clinic in Colorado and all master's level

>

> > licensees, including acupuncturists, received between $55,000 and $65,000

>

> > a

>

> > year depending on experience, plus generous benefits for health care,

>

> > education, retirement, etc.

>

> > The main question is, do you get paid regardless of whether the client

>

> > shows up or not.

>

> >

>

> > Regards,

>

> > Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D.

>

> >

>

> > angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

>

> >

>

> > www.InnerhealthSale m.com

>

> >

>

> > Phone: 503 364 3022

>

> > -

>

> > Robert Chu

>

> > <Traditional_

> > Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

>

> > Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:11 PM

>

> > Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

>

> >

>

> > $26.66 per hour when I worked at St. Vincent Hospital in Los Angeles. It

>

> > was paltry.

>

> >

>

> > In private practice its much better.

>

> >

>

> > On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Julie Ormonde <cariadanam@ gmail.

> > com<cariadanam% 40gmail.com> >

>

> > wrote:

>

> >

>

> > > Hi I have a job opportunity by an MD and she is wanting to know what a

>

> > > typical salary/hourly rate for an acupuncturist is. I'd appreciate some

>

> > > quick input! This is for Sacramento, Ca

>

> > >

>

> > > Thanks

>

> > > Julie

>

> > >

>

> > >

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Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

What kind of person are you fishing for? I'd imagine the resumes are pouring in.

 

--- On Fri, 2/27/09, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote:

Donald Snow <don83407

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Friday, February 27, 2009, 3:47 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, and I project $800,000 to 1 mill this year. I have explained a little

about this on earlier posts and don't want to re-hash it. But these numbers are

real and very doable. I do, however, need to hire another acupuncturist and

that is what I am currently in the process of doing. I max out at around $6 to

$800K a year and I get burned out in the process. I need another arm here.

 

 

 

Dr. Don Snow

 

 

 

 

 

johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com

 

Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:12:59 -0800

 

Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

Don,

 

 

 

$200-$250 K/ year is definitely doable.

 

I have a couple friends who are doing that.

 

I was just wondering about the $600 K that was stated earlier.

 

 

 

Best,

 

Kokko

 

 

 

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 2:06 AM, Mercurius Trismegistus <

 

magisterium_ magnum (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote:

 

 

 

> I'm a newbie, and I'm afraid to use 6 inch needles.

 

>

 

>

 

> -

 

> " mystir " <ykcul_ritsym@ <ykcul_ritsym% 40> >

 

> <Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine <Traditional_

Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

 

> >

 

> Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:30 PM

 

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

>

 

> It does help, and I agree with you about some teachers. Depth is different,

 

>

 

> so you had other teachers, too, outside the sneak up like a cat japanese,

 

> and 5 element. Still Don, just little things you told me, c'mon, I already

 

> have 6 " needles, but the newbies are timid. I'm not successful like you,

 

> but you can teach, inspire. Thanks for responding. Peace brother.

 

>

 

> --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com <don83407%40msn. com>>

 

> wrote:

 

> Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com <don83407%40msn. com>>

 

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

> traditional_ chinese_medicine <traditional_

chinese_medicine %40. com>

 

> Thursday, February 26, 2009, 6:10 PM

 

>

 

> What is hurting the field are so-called masters that go around giving

 

> seminars and have huge followings. They are unable to maintain a busy

 

> practice, so instead hype themselves or have themselves hyped to sell to

 

> those within the profession. If they had such successful and busy practices

 

>

 

> they wouldn't have the time to go around the country teaching our peers. In

 

>

 

> actuality, there are no secrets in acupuncture. Really, often one must

 

> learn proper needle depth. In school I noticed many students and

 

> practitioners using one inch needles in areas that really required 3 to 6

 

> inch needles.

 

>

 

> Now to answer your main question. Yes, insurance pays for a great deal of

 

> my treatments. But probably 1/3 of my patients are cash. They used to take

 

> out loans for the treatments but now I use Care Credit. But insurance pays

 

> for most of what I do.

 

>

 

> Hope this helps,

 

>

 

> Dr. Don Snow DAOM, LAc

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> ykcul_ritsym@

 

>

 

> Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:59:43 -0800

 

>

 

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

>

 

> Hi Don. Can I ask you if insurance reimbusement is a part, big or small, of

 

>

 

> your ability, or the patient's ability to afford to pay so much?

 

>

 

> I was going to practice on NYC near Spanish Harlem for a while. But it was

 

> a rehab chop shop, and within 40 minutes of arrival, the patient had

 

> chiropractic, acupuncture, interview w a Doc, etc., whatever they could

 

> through at them and get reimbursed for. Eventually the laws got tightened,

 

> I

 

> guess cause some people whined that the russians were getting too greedy

 

> and

 

> flagrant. That's when the NY acup exodus happened.

 

>

 

> Sound like you have a premier spot, and that's great! They wouldn't come if

 

>

 

> you weren't helping. I end up giving it away half the time becuase no

 

> insurance, no money, but, I never got into this for the money anyway.

 

> Still,

 

> it would make things grow.

 

>

 

> Many people, esp new, would probably benefit from advice from you. Of

 

> course don't give it all away, but things that might help or inspire. The

 

> practice protectionist mind that I sometimes see within our little craft is

 

>

 

> hurting the field as a whole.

 

>

 

> --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

 

>

 

> Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com>

 

>

 

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

>

 

> traditional_ chinese_medicine

 

>

 

> Thursday, February 26, 2009, 2:25 PM

 

>

 

> No, I currently am working alone with 3 assistants. However, I am taking

 

> interviews for an associate that wants a salary and a percentage. That

 

> $600,000 is not all mine. After overhead and the MD's share, I make around

 

> $225-250,000. I recently interviewed an acupuncturist right out of school

 

> and made her an offer that she accepted. Then in a couple of days when s/he

 

>

 

> thought of what I was making started making noise for more money. It's a

 

> shame. No track record at all, but some people think they are going to make

 

>

 

> a million right out of school. I guess I'm going to have to continue

 

> looking. Maybe it would be better to look for someone with the experience

 

> of

 

> reality.

 

>

 

> But getting back to the subject. While most of my patients come by word-of

 

> mouth. I do keep my name in the public's eye continually. I buy radio,

 

> television, and newpaper time and that gets expensive. Yesterday I cut a

 

> new

 

> commercial at the local radio station. If one doesn't work or stops

 

> working,

 

> I change it.

 

>

 

> When I look at your math, I see you are not thinking outside the box. You

 

> think only acupuncture is in your scope of practice. I make $200-400 per

 

> patient. And I do this by practicing in my complete scope of practice and I

 

>

 

> lament that the schools do not teach what is in our scope. If they continue

 

>

 

> to do that, these things will be taken out of our scope of practice. Again,

 

>

 

> I no longer share what I do with others. It is usually unappreciated and

 

> the

 

> ideas are stolen and then marketed as their own. No thank you. I'll teach

 

> it, but I'll get a percentage of future earnings with a written contract.

 

>

 

> Sincerely,

 

>

 

> Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com

 

>

 

> Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:40:23 -0800

 

>

 

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

>

 

> Donald,

 

>

 

> You have written that you make $600 G/ year ...

 

>

 

> is that with hiring other acupuncturists or other practitioners?

 

>

 

> Did you take a practice mgmt course?

 

>

 

> Doing the math, it would be very difficult to make that much $,

 

>

 

> even seeing 60 patients/ week at $100/tx = $300 G/ year.

 

>

 

> How do you do it?

 

>

 

> K

 

>

 

> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > Private practice is very much better if you have the patients. The sad

 

> but

 

>

 

> > untold story is that many acupuncturists don't have the patients to make

 

> a

 

>

 

> > decent living. That is why the median income of an acupuncturist is

 

> around

 

>

 

> > $35,000/yr. However, for those of us that have the patients to stay busy

 

> > 8,

 

>

 

> > 10, 12 hours a day can and do make a nice living. For those who don't or

 

>

 

> > can't generate a nice patient base, working for $50,000/yr is a good

 

> deal.

 

>

 

> > However, there are some of us that can generate salaries that exceed what

 

>

 

> > many MD's make. That is not the norm, and is on the other end of the

 

> > scale.

 

>

 

> > Median is in between the high and the low and the mean will be different

 

>

 

> > than the median.

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > It comes down to who can and can't generate a large patient base. If you

 

>

 

> > can't, take the salary and be happy. Actually, you will be lucky to find

 

> a

 

>

 

> > salaried position. They historically haven't been there for us.

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > <Traditional_

 

> > Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

 

>

 

> > angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

 

>

 

> > Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:58:07 -0800

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > I worked in a hospital based clinic in Colorado and all master's level

 

>

 

> > licensees, including acupuncturists, received between $55,000 and $65,000

 

>

 

> > a

 

>

 

> > year depending on experience, plus generous benefits for health care,

 

>

 

> > education, retirement, etc.

 

>

 

> > The main question is, do you get paid regardless of whether the client

 

>

 

> > shows up or not.

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > Regards,

 

>

 

> > Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D.

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > www.InnerhealthSale m.com

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > Phone: 503 364 3022

 

>

 

> > -

 

>

 

> > Robert Chu

 

>

 

> > <Traditional_

 

> > Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

 

>

 

> > Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:11 PM

 

>

 

> > Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > $26.66 per hour when I worked at St. Vincent Hospital in Los Angeles. It

 

>

 

> > was paltry.

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > In private practice its much better.

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Julie Ormonde <cariadanam@ gmail.

 

> > com<cariadanam% 40gmail.com> >

 

>

 

> > wrote:

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > > Hi I have a job opportunity by an MD and she is wanting to know what a

 

>

 

> > > typical salary/hourly rate for an acupuncturist is. I'd appreciate some

 

>

 

> > > quick input! This is for Sacramento, Ca

 

>

 

> > >

 

>

 

> > > Thanks

 

>

 

> > > Julie

 

>

 

> > >

 

>

 

> > >

Share this post

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Share on other sites

Guest guest   

Guest guest
Posted

I'm looking for someone who wants to learn a new treatment methodology for 3-4

months. Someone who has been out there and knows how tough it can be. Someone

hungry. Someone who after 3 or 4 months wants to take over their own clinic.

We will buy their equipment, pay for assistants, set up the contract with an MD,

and pay for advertising. That person must then sink or swim. They would have a

minimum guaranteed salary until they start producing at their new location, then

they would be offered a limited partnership with a percentage of earning over

their salary.

 

 

 

I am also looking for a person to stay with me in my clinic. That person will

learn to train others and develop their own clientele. That person would also

be offered a percentage of anything beyond their base salary. Assistants are

furnished along with billing and front office personnel. I wish someone had

made me an offer like this after graduating from school.

 

 

 

Dr. Donald J. Snow, Jr. DAOM, MPH, LAc

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

ykcul_ritsym

Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:16:54 -0800

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

 

 

 

 

What kind of person are you fishing for? I'd imagine the resumes are pouring in.

 

--- On Fri, 2/27/09, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote:

Donald Snow <don83407

RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Friday, February 27, 2009, 3:47 PM

 

Yes, and I project $800,000 to 1 mill this year. I have explained a little about

this on earlier posts and don't want to re-hash it. But these numbers are real

and very doable. I do, however, need to hire another acupuncturist and that is

what I am currently in the process of doing. I max out at around $6 to $800K a

year and I get burned out in the process. I need another arm here.

 

Dr. Don Snow

 

 

 

johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com

 

Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:12:59 -0800

 

Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

Don,

 

$200-$250 K/ year is definitely doable.

 

I have a couple friends who are doing that.

 

I was just wondering about the $600 K that was stated earlier.

 

Best,

 

Kokko

 

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 2:06 AM, Mercurius Trismegistus <

 

magisterium_ magnum (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote:

 

> I'm a newbie, and I'm afraid to use 6 inch needles.

 

>

 

>

 

> -

 

> " mystir " <ykcul_ritsym@ <ykcul_ritsym% 40> >

 

> <Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine <Traditional_

Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

 

> >

 

> Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:30 PM

 

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

>

 

> It does help, and I agree with you about some teachers. Depth is different,

 

>

 

> so you had other teachers, too, outside the sneak up like a cat japanese,

 

> and 5 element. Still Don, just little things you told me, c'mon, I already

 

> have 6 " needles, but the newbies are timid. I'm not successful like you,

 

> but you can teach, inspire. Thanks for responding. Peace brother.

 

>

 

> --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com <don83407%40msn. com>>

 

> wrote:

 

> Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com <don83407%40msn. com>>

 

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

> traditional_ chinese_medicine <traditional_

chinese_medicine %40. com>

 

> Thursday, February 26, 2009, 6:10 PM

 

>

 

> What is hurting the field are so-called masters that go around giving

 

> seminars and have huge followings. They are unable to maintain a busy

 

> practice, so instead hype themselves or have themselves hyped to sell to

 

> those within the profession. If they had such successful and busy practices

 

>

 

> they wouldn't have the time to go around the country teaching our peers. In

 

>

 

> actuality, there are no secrets in acupuncture. Really, often one must

 

> learn proper needle depth. In school I noticed many students and

 

> practitioners using one inch needles in areas that really required 3 to 6

 

> inch needles.

 

>

 

> Now to answer your main question. Yes, insurance pays for a great deal of

 

> my treatments. But probably 1/3 of my patients are cash. They used to take

 

> out loans for the treatments but now I use Care Credit. But insurance pays

 

> for most of what I do.

 

>

 

> Hope this helps,

 

>

 

> Dr. Don Snow DAOM, LAc

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> ykcul_ritsym@

 

>

 

> Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:59:43 -0800

 

>

 

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

>

 

> Hi Don. Can I ask you if insurance reimbusement is a part, big or small, of

 

>

 

> your ability, or the patient's ability to afford to pay so much?

 

>

 

> I was going to practice on NYC near Spanish Harlem for a while. But it was

 

> a rehab chop shop, and within 40 minutes of arrival, the patient had

 

> chiropractic, acupuncture, interview w a Doc, etc., whatever they could

 

> through at them and get reimbursed for. Eventually the laws got tightened,

 

> I

 

> guess cause some people whined that the russians were getting too greedy

 

> and

 

> flagrant. That's when the NY acup exodus happened.

 

>

 

> Sound like you have a premier spot, and that's great! They wouldn't come if

 

>

 

> you weren't helping. I end up giving it away half the time becuase no

 

> insurance, no money, but, I never got into this for the money anyway.

 

> Still,

 

> it would make things grow.

 

>

 

> Many people, esp new, would probably benefit from advice from you. Of

 

> course don't give it all away, but things that might help or inspire. The

 

> practice protectionist mind that I sometimes see within our little craft is

 

>

 

> hurting the field as a whole.

 

>

 

> --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

 

>

 

> Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com>

 

>

 

> RE: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

>

 

> traditional_ chinese_medicine

 

>

 

> Thursday, February 26, 2009, 2:25 PM

 

>

 

> No, I currently am working alone with 3 assistants. However, I am taking

 

> interviews for an associate that wants a salary and a percentage. That

 

> $600,000 is not all mine. After overhead and the MD's share, I make around

 

> $225-250,000. I recently interviewed an acupuncturist right out of school

 

> and made her an offer that she accepted. Then in a couple of days when s/he

 

>

 

> thought of what I was making started making noise for more money. It's a

 

> shame. No track record at all, but some people think they are going to make

 

>

 

> a million right out of school. I guess I'm going to have to continue

 

> looking. Maybe it would be better to look for someone with the experience

 

> of

 

> reality.

 

>

 

> But getting back to the subject. While most of my patients come by word-of

 

> mouth. I do keep my name in the public's eye continually. I buy radio,

 

> television, and newpaper time and that gets expensive. Yesterday I cut a

 

> new

 

> commercial at the local radio station. If one doesn't work or stops

 

> working,

 

> I change it.

 

>

 

> When I look at your math, I see you are not thinking outside the box. You

 

> think only acupuncture is in your scope of practice. I make $200-400 per

 

> patient. And I do this by practicing in my complete scope of practice and I

 

>

 

> lament that the schools do not teach what is in our scope. If they continue

 

>

 

> to do that, these things will be taken out of our scope of practice. Again,

 

>

 

> I no longer share what I do with others. It is usually unappreciated and

 

> the

 

> ideas are stolen and then marketed as their own. No thank you. I'll teach

 

> it, but I'll get a percentage of future earnings with a written contract.

 

>

 

> Sincerely,

 

>

 

> Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com

 

>

 

> Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:40:23 -0800

 

>

 

> Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

>

 

> Donald,

 

>

 

> You have written that you make $600 G/ year ...

 

>

 

> is that with hiring other acupuncturists or other practitioners?

 

>

 

> Did you take a practice mgmt course?

 

>

 

> Doing the math, it would be very difficult to make that much $,

 

>

 

> even seeing 60 patients/ week at $100/tx = $300 G/ year.

 

>

 

> How do you do it?

 

>

 

> K

 

>

 

> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote:

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > Private practice is very much better if you have the patients. The sad

 

> but

 

>

 

> > untold story is that many acupuncturists don't have the patients to make

 

> a

 

>

 

> > decent living. That is why the median income of an acupuncturist is

 

> around

 

>

 

> > $35,000/yr. However, for those of us that have the patients to stay busy

 

> > 8,

 

>

 

> > 10, 12 hours a day can and do make a nice living. For those who don't or

 

>

 

> > can't generate a nice patient base, working for $50,000/yr is a good

 

> deal.

 

>

 

> > However, there are some of us that can generate salaries that exceed what

 

>

 

> > many MD's make. That is not the norm, and is on the other end of the

 

> > scale.

 

>

 

> > Median is in between the high and the low and the mean will be different

 

>

 

> > than the median.

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > It comes down to who can and can't generate a large patient base. If you

 

>

 

> > can't, take the salary and be happy. Actually, you will be lucky to find

 

> a

 

>

 

> > salaried position. They historically haven't been there for us.

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, LAc

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > <Traditional_

 

> > Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

 

>

 

> > angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

 

>

 

> > Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:58:07 -0800

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > I worked in a hospital based clinic in Colorado and all master's level

 

>

 

> > licensees, including acupuncturists, received between $55,000 and $65,000

 

>

 

> > a

 

>

 

> > year depending on experience, plus generous benefits for health care,

 

>

 

> > education, retirement, etc.

 

>

 

> > The main question is, do you get paid regardless of whether the client

 

>

 

> > shows up or not.

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > Regards,

 

>

 

> > Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D.

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net <angelapfa%40comcas t.net>

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > www.InnerhealthSale m.com

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > Phone: 503 364 3022

 

>

 

> > -

 

>

 

> > Robert Chu

 

>

 

> > <Traditional_

 

> > Chinese_Medicine %40. com>

 

>

 

> > Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:11 PM

 

>

 

> > Re: Salary For A Hired Acu?

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > $26.66 per hour when I worked at St. Vincent Hospital in Los Angeles. It

 

>

 

> > was paltry.

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > In private practice its much better.

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Julie Ormonde <cariadanam@ gmail.

 

> > com<cariadanam% 40gmail.com> >

 

>

 

> > wrote:

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > > Hi I have a job opportunity by an MD and she is wanting to know what a

 

>

 

> > > typical salary/hourly rate for an acupuncturist is. I'd appreciate some

 

>

 

> > > quick input! This is for Sacramento, Ca

 

>

 

> > >

 

>

 

> > > Thanks

 

>

 

> > > Julie

 

>

 

> > >

 

>

 

> > >

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