Help needed for personal Autism case

[Guest guest]

This is better, the uncomdified version...

 

A Walk in My Shoes

 

C. Waeltermann, 2007

 

Twas the Night Before Christmas

And all through the house

The creatures were stirring

Yes, even the mouse

 

We tried melatonin

And gave a hot bath

But the holiday jitters

They always distract

 

The children were finally

All nestled in bed

When nightmares of terror

Ran through my OWN head

 

Did I get the right gift

The right color

And style

Would there be a tantrum

Or even, maybe, a smile?

 

Our relatives come

But they don't understand

The pleasure he gets

Just from flapping his hands.

 

" He needs discipline, " they say

" Just a well-needed smack,

You must learn to parent.. "

And on goes the attack

 

We smile and nod

Because we know deep inside

The argument is moot

Let them all take a side

 

We know what it's like

To live with the spectrum

The struggles and triumphs

Achievements, regressions….

 

But what they don't know

And what they don't see

Is the joy that we feel

Over simplicity

 

He said " hello "

He ate something green!

He told his first lie!

He did not cause a scene!

 

He peed on the potty

Who cares if he's ten,

He stopped saying the same thing

Again and again!

 

Others don't realize

Just how we can cope

How we bravely hang on

At the end of our rope

 

But what they don't see

Is the joy we can't hide

When our children with autism

Make the tiniest stride

 

We may look at others

Without the problems we face

With jealousy, hatred

Or even distaste,

 

But what they don't know

Nor sometimes do we

Is that children with autism

Bring simplicity.

 

We don't get excited

Over expensive things

We jump for joy

With the progress work brings

 

Children with autism

Try hard every day

That they make us proud

More than words can say.

 

They work even harder

Than you or I

To achieve something small

To reach a star in the sky

 

So to those who don't get it

Or can't get a clue

Take a walk in my shoes

And I'll assure you…

 

That even 10 minutes

Into the walk

You'll look at me

With respect, even shock.

 

You will realize

What it is I go through

And the next time you judge

I can assure you

 

That you won't say a thing

You'll be quiet and learn,

Like the years that I did

When the tables were turned.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I don't know why you'd take offense at my suggesting acupuncture, it's

a serious condition why not use all the tools you have, please don't

be mad at me for simply trying to help...I didn't see your questions,

ask again and I will gladly answer.

 

Chinese Medicine , " Julie Ormonde "

<cariadanam wrote:

>

> I responded to your post with questions, I obviously read it and was

> interested in your opinion, what is up??

>

> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 2:36 PM, jasonwcom <jasonwcom wrote:

>

> > I'll repeat

> >

> > Try bai zi ren wan and run chang wan together at a mild dose

> >

> > --- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> > " Julie Ormonde "

> > <cariadanam@> wrote:

> > >

> > > I did have my say and I have let it go, now maybe someone could

> > actually try

> > > to help me HERBALLY?

> > >

> > > On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor@> wrote:

> > >

> > > > Hi All:

> > > >

> > > > " neurotoxins or genetics or the enviroment or weak immune

> > > > systems and really all of us hundreds of thousands of parents are

> > just not

> > > > loving our children and/or abusing them and while we are abusing

> > them we

> > > > are

> > > > spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on therapies, losing our

> > homes

> > > > losing ourselves trying to recover them, but I digress... "

> > > >

> > > > I Ching Hexagram 4. Meng

> > > > In punishing folly

> > > > It does not further one

> > > > To commit transgressions.

> > > > The only thing that furthers

> > > > Is to prevent transgressions.

> > > >

> > > > I don't believe ad hominem attacks, defamation or libel are

> > appropriate in

> > > > this forum - maybe elsewhere. This forum is ostensibly about the

> > healing of

> > > > the human heart. The man apologised PROFUSELY, and he clearly did

> > not intend

> > > > harm. Please let it go.

> > > >

> > > > Hugo

> > > >

> > > > ________________________________

> > > > Hugo Ramiro

> > > > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

> > > > http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

(They say " He needs discipline, just a well-needed smack "

 

" You must learn to parent " and on goes the attack...)

 

 Hi. A lot of people don't realize, can't realize, how different these children

are from other kids. They want to help, to apply the same guidance and

discipline that they've found useful with their own kids. But they don't know

how hard it is to have to be flexible, to accommodate and care for a child with

autism or adhd. You're on kitchen duty all the time.

 I took a walk with my girlfriend's boy this weekend. I was able to get him away

from playing 'world of warcraft' for a while, and it was cold. I had to get him

to wear a warm coat, fed him some pancakes with real maple syrup, and off we

went. We talked, letting him say, and trying to hear what he was saying about

his mom, his mom's exhusband, us, and school, and anything. Our goal was to do a

little Christmas shopping, look at the pets in the store, and pick up a couple

thing for home.

 What a lovely mind that boy has. He is so funny and sharp in his humor. There

were times in the past, we rode around in my car by ourselves, and with other

kids, and we would shout our heads off about anything. Blast the radio and

scream. And laugh outrageously about the stuff we would come up with.

 His mom overcame a hell of a childhood, and will only shower him with love,

patience.

 His attention span darts around in an interesting way, and since he goes to a

special and fantastic school, (thank God for them, catholic and state schools

couldn't wouldn't give the attention that these kids need, let alone the

borderline kids, it's a factory), I want to fight off the stigma of 'stupid,

etc', that he feels. It's a shame, he's so smart.

 Every time I come over, he wants me to give him a massage or crack/align his

back, and things like that. His mom and me might be playing scrabble and having

a glass of wine, fixing something or whatever, or putting the tree together. But

that's ok, get him to join.

 When I and her started, I was thinking of usual boundaries and expectations and

took me a while to see their relationship.

 I guess I could go on, but when you have a special child, you're a little apart

from things. I hope they have a voice sometime. So, I hope our societies turn

more human and flexible, caring. So much I want to say.

 

       

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Julie,

 

Thanks for the update.

 

A couple of thoughts about the diagnosis...

 

I would not treat Kidney deficiency. In spite of the slow achievement

of milestones, I think it is the essence that is effected rather that

the essence as a cause.

 

In terms of the Heart, the red tip is heat and the curling up is a

sign of excess heat.

 

In my own training and experience with treating consciousness

disorders, when the symptoms are strange such as talking to one's

self, hand flapping, strange screaming, inability to focus or process

- there is phlegm involved. Also it sounds like he goes through

cycles of build up - with hyper-activity, irritability, insomnia,

hyper-sensitivity and then fatigue, withdrawal. It is interesting

that his symptoms improve with discharge - anger and illness. Though

I agree with you about the Spleen Qi deficiency, with the stagnation

in the digestion, bloating, tendency to constipation along with the

above stagnation symptoms, I would make sure I was opening and

clearing. In my experience, this opening and clearing itself can

fortify a weak Spleen just as the stasis can weaken the Spleen and

Kidneys. In other words, I'd be careful about too much tonification.

The dryness of the skin and coarse hair, to me, are explained by the

systemic phlegm.

 

So, my suggestion in terms of treatment is Shi Wei Wen Dan Tang

without Shu Di Huang or Wu Wei Zi. I would increase of Ban Xia and

Zhi Shi. I would also add a small bit of Huang Lian (excellent for

clearing heat from the heart) and Hou Po. The formula does supplement

his Spleen though you may want to add Bai Zhu.

 

I would want to see the bloating and distention and constipation get

better first. I suggest opening up his Qi mechanism and then seeing

how this brings life back to his Kidney essence.

 

I'd love to hear how this goes or what your thoughts are.

 

My best,

 

Sharon

 

 

Sharon Weizenbaum

86 Henry Street

Amherst, MA 01002

www.whitepinehealingarts.com

sweiz

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Jason,

What are the 4 devils?

 

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 7:39 PM, jasonwcom <jasonwcom wrote:

 

> Just curious did he have several vaccines in a row? Chlorella algae

> (cracked cell wall)can help detox heavy metals from vaccines, also

> cilantro juice...Some autism is like chrohn's disease creating a

> phlegm in the brain so herbs like chang pu and yuan zhi for the brain

> and herbs that sooth and cool the intestines(da huang) and boost the

> metabolism of toxin(spleen herbs)...Then there is progression to food

> allergies(boost spleen, clean colon) and precicios puberty(tonify yin

> strongly).

>

> You could try something like very mild doses of run chang wan and bai

> zi ren wan to start.

>

> From your description of the tongue it sounds like damp in the l.j.

> heat in the heart and wind, cracks and skinny arms stomach

> inflammation heat.

> You could do some minimal acupuncture kids get rapid results from few

> needles:

> A simple treatment would be like needle rn 4(touch the needle tip to

> the peritonium) or s.i lower he sea point, shen men or ear shen men,

> or rn14(don't go deep danger), st36 or rn12(touch peritonium, lv1(wood

> controls wind) or gb8 or 7 or gb 20(you can thread gb20 to anmen to

> make it safer on a moving kid), maybe add sp3 or 6, bai hui, 4 devils

> do only a few points at a time and do it 2-3 times a week to really

> help him.

>

> You could do some minimal acupuncture kids get fast result:

>

> --- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> " Julie Ormonde "

>

> <cariadanam wrote:

> >

> > Some clarification on pulse - I forgot to write that it is slippery.

> Also

> > last night when I was awake in the middle of the night (yes mom needs a

> > treatment too, lol) it occured to me in one of those " duh " moments that

> > children have a higher heart rate than adults, with research the

> normal hb

> > up to 10 yrs is 70-120, so his pulse is not rapid in terms of

> children, I'd

> > be interested in what any of the peds practitioners out there think

> in terms

> > of TCM?

> >

> > On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Julie Ormonde <cariadanam wrote:

> >

> > > I am looking for help for my 7yo son with Autism. We have had steady

> > > growth since his diagnosis 4 years ago and have never used TCM. I

> would

> > > like some help especially since I am his mom and may miss

> something and also

> > > I don't particularly practice pediatrics/neurological disorders. I am

> > > particularly looking for herbal advice.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > At 3 Tristan was a screaming, handflapping, nonverbal mess of a

> child. He

> > > now is a happy 7 yo mainstreamed and doing awesome, we really are

> close to

> > > recovery. I really need help with his focus/attention, auditory

> processing,

> > > and leaky gut issues/weak nutrient absorption, viral issues.

> > >

> > >

> > > S & S

> > > Normal weight/solid feels heavier than looks, short stature, too

> short for

> > > age

> > >

> > > Good skin tone

> > >

> > > Trunk and arm muscles hypotonic

> > >

> > > Late end of milestone marks

> > >

> > > Lost language, now has full language but has the following issues: not

> > > clearly communicating thoughts, starts in the middle of a thought

> – no lead

> > > in, no conversational language, all expressive issues

> > >

> > > Acute visual and hearing – 20/20 and tests out hearing machine at its

> > > highest levels, covers ears at times (this has steadily improved)

> > >

> > > Focus and attention deficits – probably our biggest issue,

> especially in a

> > > classroom setting

> > >

> > > Auditory processing disorder – input is much better one on one, poor

> > > listening skills in group/classroom situations

> > >

> > > Symptoms improve with illness and anger (suspect viral issue)

> > >

> > > Used to be aggressive (this has steadily improved)

> > >

> > > Zones out

> > >

> > > In general very passive, unmotivated, could easily slip through

> the cracks,

> > > quiet

> > >

> > > Extremely loving nature, definitely feels emotion

> > >

> > > Does things for purpose not just because, for example doesn't

> chit-chat

> > > this is pointless to him.

> > >

> > > Good reading skills, poor math and art skills

> > >

> > > Very visual

> > >

> > > Balance, coordination, proprioceptive issues (3-4 year level),

> can't cross

> > > midline

> > >

> > > Can get hyper with physical exercise

> > >

> > > Play – likes other kids but doesn't really know how to start or

> maintain

> > > play, kids just think he's shy

> > >

> > > Constipation – every other day (getting better with magnesium and

> yeast tx)

> > >

> > > Sleep – insomnia – will be awake for hours sitting quietly in his room

> > > Milk allergy, enzyme therapy has been phenomenal for this, Leaky Gut

> > > Had DPT, HIB, and Prevnar at 2, 4, 6 months, reacted more

> severely with

> > > each group w/ the last one inconsolable crying for 18 hours,

> fever, lump in

> > > leg at vax site, decided to no longer vax

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Tongue: slightly pale, red tip w/ notch that curls up, white going

> to pale

> > > yellow coat in back, small cracks mid tongue, very quivery

> > >

> > > Pulse: rapid (100bpm), irregularly irregular (seems to be new), thread

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Bio Med Txs – see other email post about heartbeat it has supplements

> > > listed

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > My thoughts: Sp qi xu w/ damp, Ht qi/blood xu w/ some signs of

> heat but not

> > > excessive, Kid qi and essence xu, phlegm misting the

> mind/orifices/heart

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > This is an herbal formula I found by

> > > http://chineseacupuncture-wnc.com/pdfs/cm_autism_practitioner.pdf

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > *Basic Autism Formulas*

> > >

> > > *Deficiency Shi Syndrome Syndrome*

> > >

> > > Shi Chang Pu Shi Chang Pu

> > >

> > > Yuan Zhi Yuan Zhi

> > >

> > > Tian Zhu Huang Tian Zhu Huang

> > >

> > > Qian Shi Qian Shi

> > >

> > > Long Chi Long Chi

> > >

> > > Bai Zhu Huang Lian

> > >

> > > Tian Nan Xing Rou Gui

> > >

> > > Bei Xie Suan Zao Ren

> > >

> > > Bai Zi Ren Hu Po

> > >

> > > Xi Yang Shen Dan Zhu Ye

> > >

> > > Chuan Xiong Yu Jin

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I was thinking the def formula with some Yu Jin, Bai He, He Shou

> Wu and

> > > Dang Gui

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I'd love input, dosage ideas, herbal ideas, etc I am overwhelmed

> with just

> > > moving, starting a new clinic (again!), recovering my son, and

> having 3

> > > small children, etc and don't want to mess this up and not much

> time to

> > > research.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Please ask any questions,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Thanks!!!

> > >

> > > Julie

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > --

> > Julie Ormonde, L.Ac.

> > www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Concerning autistic children,

more often than not, the parents are more compassionate and attentive to

begin with.

That's why one chooses and is chosen to raise an autistic child in this

lifetime.

Only an unconditionally compassionate human (especially a mother) can give

their entire life

to another person. Since we can't focus our limited Qi on all of the

sentient beings in the universe,

the responsibility for one other human being is enough. I didn't quite

understand this until I had a son.

 

In a way, the lessons that we learn are the greatest gift, even though it

doesn't seem like that when we live through them.

It just seems like suffering. We are most grateful to those who who suffer

and let us join them in their suffering,

in order to free each other.

 

This is what I've seen from friends who have raised autistic and challenged

children.

We can judge them for many things... vaccinating their children, not

breast-feeding, living in poverty around environmental toxins and eating

what they can afford, but when it comes down to it, it's much deeper than

that.

 

Julie, you honor us with your courage.

K.

 

 

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 11:27 PM, bill_schoenbart <plantmed2wrote:

 

> Nam,

>

> Think before you speak. A mother appealed for help for her autistic

> son, and you post some nonsense about it being caused by abuse. Aside

> from the fact that it isn't true, how do you think this makes a mother

> feel to hear something like that? She is already undergoing great

> difficulty due to a tragedy, and then you blame her?

>

> Your apology seems sincere, but it is best to avoid offending people

> in the first place. There are always going to be disagreements, but

> you really crossed the line this time.

>

> - Bill

>

> --- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> " dr_namnguyen58 "

>

> <dr_namnguyen58 wrote:

> >

> > Dear Julie and or with Dr. Mark Milotay, and or to all,

> >

> > Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, everybody !!!!!!!!!!

> >

> > I am sorry for my words of expression. I do not mean to teach or

> > offend or try to provoke anyone. If I had, there was not intention.

> > Again, I truly apologize for all of my actions.

> > I have tried to share information that I came across, by no mean

> > of teaching nor insulting anybody. If all messages I shared that have

> > offended someone, please forgive me, in my heart I had no intention.

> > Information is for thought and idea to work out more. It is an idea of

> > one's approach or experience, it should not literally be taken as a

> > definition........... Probably, I had used certain words or phrases

> > which have hurt someone, please correct me.

> > Dr. Mark Milotay, if you feel that my messages won't help, thanks

> > for your judgment. I will not post any again. But what message has

> > offended our fellowship, I do not get this. Please help me to correct

> > my behavior. Please forgive me ! And please ask the administrator to

> > remove my name from this group, for my misbehavior.

> >

> > Sincerely,

> > Thanks to all,

> >

> > Nam Nguyen

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> " Julie Ormonde "

> > <cariadanam@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nam, if you recall we round and round awhile back about this subject

> > and I

> > > respectfully ask that you keep your opionions to yourself.

> > >

> > > Thank You

> > > Julie

> > >

> > > On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 9:26 PM, dr_namnguyen58

> > <dr_namnguyen58@>wrote:

> > >

> > > > Dear Julie,

> > > > To me Autism is a kind of mental disturbance, not physical problem.

> > > > We , TCM , all try to look for phlegm, blood or Qi

> stagnation,heat or

> > > > cold , deficiency or excess, we may not find a solution for it.

> > > > I have seen a few cases of autism. Personally, I think a child had

> > > > or has been mentally abused - some parents defended themselves,

> " Oh,

> > > > that would never happen... To me, " Who knows ? " -. He or she became

> > > > timid, scared or frightened of others including his or her own

> > > > parents. The child loses faith in their love ones and subconsciously

> > > > thinks that they will never help or protect him or her. This child

> > > > then isolates himself or herself to protect his or her

> > > > own.................... Has the child been taking care by someone

> > > > else? By relatives? By agents? By neighbors?

> > > > I seen the child has lost his or her love and trust. I have seen a

> > > > child had been physically abused by his or her step ( father or

> mother

> > > > ), or caretaker. And when he or she reported to his or her parents,

> > > > they took it lightly, the child has been hurt and lost trust in

> them.

> > > > I had advised the parents to spend more time and find out what a

> > > > child most interested in... Learn and work together with him or her

> > > > and give him interest, listen to him more, give him more love, and

> > > > assure that your action provide his protection. As long as a

> child has

> > > > gained love , interested , and trust in you, you can lead him out of

> > > > autism. Give him confidence that he can stand up and fight for his

> > own...

> > > > Ex : If a child loves cartoon, watch with him, then ask him the

> > > > character's name, and what he like about that character. If he loves

> > > > to draw, ask him to teach us how to draw, and ask him for grading...

> > > > Make him feel important!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NEVER TURN AWAY FROM HIM

> > > > WHEN HE NEED US AND NEVER USE NEGATIVE COMPLIMENTS...

> > > >

> > > > Good luck Julie !

> > > >

> > > > Nam Nguyen

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > Julie Ormonde, L.Ac.

> > > www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Julie,

I've read all of the posts. It's amazing what we can all pull together from

our experiences.

I felt like the pediatrician was the devil incarnate when she tried to force

us to vaccinate our son.

She said that if we didn't vaccinate him, that all of the other children in

her waiting room were susceptible to getting anything that he caught. Which

didn't make any sense at all, because they were all vaccinated, right?

 

I asked her how she raised her daughter the first year being a

pediatrician.

She said that she brought her into the clinic office and kept her in a car

seat.

After she was vaccinated, she barely moved at all.

The pediatrician thought that was a great thing.

 

So, we ran out of there. Funny thing was that our son always cried

hysterically when we went into that office,

even without getting one shot there. He just felt the energy.

One thing that might not have been mentioned out of all of the great info

that was passed along,

is the issue of SHOCK.

 

Repeatedly getting bled and poisoned by a stranger at early stages of our

emotional/physical development are extremely shocking.

My son still remembers emotionally a burn that happened when he was 18

months young.

The feverish defence that happens after vaccinations is also a shock to the

body and brain.

This is still evidenced in the red tip on the tongue that curls up.

We can see this as excess heart fire and also inflammation in the brain (top

part of the tongue).

 

Shock deranges the spirit, scatters the pulse, disconnects the heart and

kidney (jing-shen) axis.

This could also been seen as a separation of yin and yang.

In human terms.... mother, father and self.

This dis-association can be remedied, but the child might have lost trust in

the world and the soul has decided to become dis-associated with it.

 

In other cultures, when this happens, it's purely a spiritual issue.

Of course, I think that Chinese medicine can help... Sharon W's Wen dan

tang modification,

chelation therapy, GI support, the acupuncture protocols,

and from what I've experienced, something on a deep shen level has to

happen.

 

I hope this doesn't sound too far-out, but I'm speaking genuinely.

I'm sure you've already prayed your heart out.

I've seen miracles happen in healing ceremonies, especially ones native to

the land you live on.

Keep the faith! Happy Solstice and Holy-days.

 

K.

 

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 6:28 AM, <johnkokko wrote:

 

> Concerning autistic children,

> more often than not, the parents are more compassionate and attentive to

> begin with.

> That's why one chooses and is chosen to raise an autistic child in this

> lifetime.

> Only an unconditionally compassionate human (especially a mother) can give

> their entire life

> to another person. Since we can't focus our limited Qi on all of the

> sentient beings in the universe,

> the responsibility for one other human being is enough. I didn't quite

> understand this until I had a son.

>

> In a way, the lessons that we learn are the greatest gift, even though it

> doesn't seem like that when we live through them.

> It just seems like suffering. We are most grateful to those who who suffer

> and let us join them in their suffering,

> in order to free each other.

>

> This is what I've seen from friends who have raised autistic and challenged

> children.

> We can judge them for many things... vaccinating their children, not

> breast-feeding, living in poverty around environmental toxins and eating

> what they can afford, but when it comes down to it, it's much deeper than

> that.

>

> Julie, you honor us with your courage.

> K.

>

>

>

> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 11:27 PM, bill_schoenbart <plantmed2wrote:

>

>> Nam,

>>

>> Think before you speak. A mother appealed for help for her autistic

>> son, and you post some nonsense about it being caused by abuse. Aside

>> from the fact that it isn't true, how do you think this makes a mother

>> feel to hear something like that? She is already undergoing great

>> difficulty due to a tragedy, and then you blame her?

>>

>> Your apology seems sincere, but it is best to avoid offending people

>> in the first place. There are always going to be disagreements, but

>> you really crossed the line this time.

>>

>> - Bill

>>

>> --- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

>> " dr_namnguyen58 "

>>

>> <dr_namnguyen58 wrote:

>> >

>> > Dear Julie and or with Dr. Mark Milotay, and or to all,

>> >

>> > Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, everybody !!!!!!!!!!

>> >

>> > I am sorry for my words of expression. I do not mean to teach or

>> > offend or try to provoke anyone. If I had, there was not intention.

>> > Again, I truly apologize for all of my actions.

>> > I have tried to share information that I came across, by no mean

>> > of teaching nor insulting anybody. If all messages I shared that have

>> > offended someone, please forgive me, in my heart I had no intention.

>> > Information is for thought and idea to work out more. It is an idea of

>> > one's approach or experience, it should not literally be taken as a

>> > definition........... Probably, I had used certain words or phrases

>> > which have hurt someone, please correct me.

>> > Dr. Mark Milotay, if you feel that my messages won't help, thanks

>> > for your judgment. I will not post any again. But what message has

>> > offended our fellowship, I do not get this. Please help me to correct

>> > my behavior. Please forgive me ! And please ask the administrator to

>> > remove my name from this group, for my misbehavior.

>> >

>> > Sincerely,

>> > Thanks to all,

>> >

>> > Nam Nguyen

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > --- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

>> " Julie Ormonde "

>> > <cariadanam@> wrote:

>> > >

>> > > Nam, if you recall we round and round awhile back about this subject

>> > and I

>> > > respectfully ask that you keep your opionions to yourself.

>> > >

>> > > Thank You

>> > > Julie

>> > >

>> > > On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 9:26 PM, dr_namnguyen58

>> > <dr_namnguyen58@>wrote:

>> > >

>> > > > Dear Julie,

>> > > > To me Autism is a kind of mental disturbance, not physical problem.

>> > > > We , TCM , all try to look for phlegm, blood or Qi

>> stagnation,heat or

>> > > > cold , deficiency or excess, we may not find a solution for it.

>> > > > I have seen a few cases of autism. Personally, I think a child had

>> > > > or has been mentally abused - some parents defended themselves,

>> " Oh,

>> > > > that would never happen... To me, " Who knows ? " -. He or she became

>> > > > timid, scared or frightened of others including his or her own

>> > > > parents. The child loses faith in their love ones and subconsciously

>> > > > thinks that they will never help or protect him or her. This child

>> > > > then isolates himself or herself to protect his or her

>> > > > own.................... Has the child been taking care by someone

>> > > > else? By relatives? By agents? By neighbors?

>> > > > I seen the child has lost his or her love and trust. I have seen a

>> > > > child had been physically abused by his or her step ( father or

>> mother

>> > > > ), or caretaker. And when he or she reported to his or her parents,

>> > > > they took it lightly, the child has been hurt and lost trust in

>> them.

>> > > > I had advised the parents to spend more time and find out what a

>> > > > child most interested in... Learn and work together with him or her

>> > > > and give him interest, listen to him more, give him more love, and

>> > > > assure that your action provide his protection. As long as a

>> child has

>> > > > gained love , interested , and trust in you, you can lead him out of

>> > > > autism. Give him confidence that he can stand up and fight for his

>> > own...

>> > > > Ex : If a child loves cartoon, watch with him, then ask him the

>> > > > character's name, and what he like about that character. If he loves

>> > > > to draw, ask him to teach us how to draw, and ask him for grading...

>> > > > Make him feel important!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NEVER TURN AWAY FROM HIM

>> > > > WHEN HE NEED US AND NEVER USE NEGATIVE COMPLIMENTS...

>> > > >

>> > > > Good luck Julie !

>> > > >

>> > > > Nam Nguyen

>> > > >

>> > > >

>> > > >

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >

>> > > --

>> > > Julie Ormonde, L.Ac.

>> > > www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >

[Guest guest]

John, Mystir, Sharon and those who contacted me offlist - THANK YOU, THANK

YOU, THANK YOU! Your positive thoughts and support and really just the

recognition of what we are going through is very meaningful to me and

actually quite healing words in themselves.

 

I am going to sit down today (children providing, not only do I have the

7yo, but I have a 5yo and 3yo too) and try to really take a look at what

info was presented and try to come up with a starting point. I do know in

my head that I am still stuck at not addressing the toxins and Wen Dan Tang

is something I was seriously considering, I just have that gut instint that

I have to address it and after not following my instinct before I try to

give it a little say these days

I am going to do an anti-viral treatment with enzymes, lysine,vit c, and

ole within the next few days, Im trying to guage when to start as I don't

want my son to be sick on christmas day. But I will be doing this for sure.

 

Also an update: His pulse is no longer irregular - it was the Grapefruit

Seed Extract (GSE) that was causing it, so I am looking to start a different

anti-fungal esp since anti-virals increase yeast.

And back to herbs, my goal is to do the biomed above and see what happens,

then I will probably go off most supplements and do TCM w/

vitamins/CLO/enzymes

 

Thanks again for the help and I'll be back with herbal questions,

Julie

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Today: I don't take offense at your suggesting acupuncture, I take offense

at your suggesting I'd rather treat others than my " own flesh and blood "

From my post on Dec 18:

 

Jason he was vaccinated with the vaccines I listed before at 2, 4, and 6

mos. This was about half of what was actually recommended. I felt

physcially ill over the decision and actually had to leave the room when he

got them, it was the biggest mistake I ever ever ever made, ALWAYS follow

your gut instinct, mine was screaming and I ignored it because western

medical literature scares you into vaccines. But then again maybe none of

this has to do with neurotoxins or genetics or the enviroment or weak immune

systems and really all of us hundreds of thousands of parents are just not

loving our children and/or abusing them and while we are abusing them we are

spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on therapies, losing our homes

losing ourselves trying to recover them, but I digress...

 

I am curious as to why you bring up wind, he doesn't have nay tremors or

seizures, while wind can be an issue with these kids I am not seeing it in

mine?

 

I was thinking of a combo of the following formulas: zhi gan cao tang (but I

have figured out it seems to the GSE that was affecting his heartbeat so

maybe this isn't as needed although I think he still has a predisposition to

irreg heartbeat and it certainly makes sense that he would), yang xin tang,

and a smaller percentage of wen dan tang, I think the heat needs addressed

but I don't know that I think it is the root.

 

I'd really really like input, I know you herbal gurus are out there, can you

weigh in please I am trying to stick to formulas without single herb

additions just for my ease of use, using combos would be easier.

 

Julie

 

 

 

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 11:36 AM, jasonwcom <jasonwcom wrote:

 

> I don't know why you'd take offense at my suggesting acupuncture, it's

> a serious condition why not use all the tools you have, please don't

> be mad at me for simply trying to help...I didn't see your questions,

> ask again and I will gladly answer.

>

> --- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> " Julie Ormonde "

> <cariadanam wrote:

> >

> > I responded to your post with questions, I obviously read it and was

> > interested in your opinion, what is up??

> >

> > On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 2:36 PM, jasonwcom <jasonwcom wrote:

> >

> > > I'll repeat

> > >

> > > Try bai zi ren wan and run chang wan together at a mild dose

> > >

> > > --- In

>

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> <Chinese Medicine%40>,

>

> > > " Julie Ormonde "

> > > <cariadanam@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > I did have my say and I have let it go, now maybe someone could

> > > actually try

> > > > to help me HERBALLY?

> > > >

> > > > On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Hi All:

> > > > >

> > > > > " neurotoxins or genetics or the enviroment or weak immune

> > > > > systems and really all of us hundreds of thousands of parents are

> > > just not

> > > > > loving our children and/or abusing them and while we are abusing

> > > them we

> > > > > are

> > > > > spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on therapies, losing our

> > > homes

> > > > > losing ourselves trying to recover them, but I digress... "

> > > > >

> > > > > I Ching Hexagram 4. Meng

> > > > > In punishing folly

> > > > > It does not further one

> > > > > To commit transgressions.

> > > > > The only thing that furthers

> > > > > Is to prevent transgressions.

> > > > >

> > > > > I don't believe ad hominem attacks, defamation or libel are

> > > appropriate in

> > > > > this forum - maybe elsewhere. This forum is ostensibly about the

> > > healing of

> > > > > the human heart. The man apologised PROFUSELY, and he clearly did

> > > not intend

> > > > > harm. Please let it go.

> > > > >

> > > > > Hugo

> > > > >

> > > > > ________________________________

> > > > > Hugo Ramiro

> > > > > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

> > > > > http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

John, Julie, TCM group participants,

 

This is why I've always taught that it is critical that we emphasize

pediatrics in our Chinese medicine skill set. It is for the benefit

of future generations, by establishing the foundation of a person's

health which begins not only in childhood, but in utero and before

(health of the parents, ovum and sperm, etc.). Chinese medicine tries

to see the entire picture of a person's health throughout their life,

and modern life doesn't paint a pretty picture of that. Despite the

admirable gains in technology, science and biomedical treatments that

save and extend life, the destructive effects of many medications,

vaccines, environmental toxins and so on has altered and endangered

the very foundations of health. Modern medicine has become accustomed

to using very strong toxic drugs for even mild diseases, leading to

damage to body and mind.

 

This is why a merely symptomatic approach to treatment often doesn't

work. The roots of most modern diseases go far back in a patient's

personal history, including iatrogenesis at a young age. We must

factor this in, which includes effects of medical treatments.

 

I saw a young patient with pediatric eczema that started on the legs.

After vaccination, the eczema spread and surrounded his eyes and

became very uncomfortable. According to his mother, he had a strong

fever with pain and swelling at the vaccination site, then the rash

began to spread. His pulse was unusually rapid and tight.

Unfortunately, he wouldn't stick out his tongue. I suggested chai hu

gui zhi tang to start, but he wouldn't take the herbs, so there was no

followup. I've encouraged the mother to try the herbs again.

 

Even if parents choose to vaccinate their children, there are herbal

or homeopathic treatments that can prevent damage to the child's

innate immunity. Also, vaccinations can be spaced out, fewer can be

used, non-mercury vaccines can be requested. There is a variation of

responses that one can have. But certainly, this means that people

need to educate themselves on alternative health methods so they can

respond through knowledge and strength, and without fear, so that they

will not be bullied into decisions that are against their better

judgement.

 

This also means that as practitioners of Chinese medicine, we need to

immerse ourselves in the study of children's disorders, and have a

strong foundation in the classical principles that are the core of

this medicine.

 

 

 

 

On Dec 22, 2008, at 7:11 AM, wrote:

 

> Julie,

> I've read all of the posts. It's amazing what we can all pull

> together from

> our experiences.

> I felt like the pediatrician was the devil incarnate when she tried

> to force

> us to vaccinate our son.

> She said that if we didn't vaccinate him, that all of the other

> children in

> her waiting room were susceptible to getting anything that he

> caught. Which

> didn't make any sense at all, because they were all vaccinated, right?

>

> I asked her how she raised her daughter the first year being a

> pediatrician.

> She said that she brought her into the clinic office and kept her in

> a car

> seat.

> After she was vaccinated, she barely moved at all.

> The pediatrician thought that was a great thing.

>

> So, we ran out of there. Funny thing was that our son always cried

> hysterically when we went into that office,

> even without getting one shot there. He just felt the energy.

> One thing that might not have been mentioned out of all of the great

> info

> that was passed along,

> is the issue of SHOCK.

>

> Repeatedly getting bled and poisoned by a stranger at early stages

> of our

> emotional/physical development are extremely shocking.

> My son still remembers emotionally a burn that happened when he was 18

> months young.

> The feverish defence that happens after vaccinations is also a shock

> to the

> body and brain.

> This is still evidenced in the red tip on the tongue that curls up.

> We can see this as excess heart fire and also inflammation in the

> brain (top

> part of the tongue).

>

> Shock deranges the spirit, scatters the pulse, disconnects the heart

> and

> kidney (jing-shen) axis.

> This could also been seen as a separation of yin and yang.

> In human terms.... mother, father and self.

> This dis-association can be remedied, but the child might have lost

> trust in

> the world and the soul has decided to become dis-associated with it.

>

> In other cultures, when this happens, it's purely a spiritual issue.

> Of course, I think that Chinese medicine can help... Sharon W's Wen

> dan

> tang modification,

> chelation therapy, GI support, the acupuncture protocols,

> and from what I've experienced, something on a deep shen level has to

> happen.

>

> I hope this doesn't sound too far-out, but I'm speaking genuinely.

> I'm sure you've already prayed your heart out.

> I've seen miracles happen in healing ceremonies, especially ones

> native to

> the land you live on.

> Keep the faith! Happy Solstice and Holy-days.

>

> K.

>

> On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 6:28 AM, <johnkokko

> wrote:

>

> > Concerning autistic children,

> > more often than not, the parents are more compassionate and

> attentive to

> > begin with.

> > That's why one chooses and is chosen to raise an autistic child in

> this

> > lifetime.

> > Only an unconditionally compassionate human (especially a mother)

> can give

> > their entire life

> > to another person. Since we can't focus our limited Qi on all of the

> > sentient beings in the universe,

> > the responsibility for one other human being is enough. I didn't

> quite

> > understand this until I had a son.

> >

> > In a way, the lessons that we learn are the greatest gift, even

> though it

> > doesn't seem like that when we live through them.

> > It just seems like suffering. We are most grateful to those who

> who suffer

> > and let us join them in their suffering,

> > in order to free each other.

> >

> > This is what I've seen from friends who have raised autistic and

> challenged

> > children.

> > We can judge them for many things... vaccinating their children, not

> > breast-feeding, living in poverty around environmental toxins and

> eating

> > what they can afford, but when it comes down to it, it's much

> deeper than

> > that.

> >

> > Julie, you honor us with your courage.

> > K.

> >

> >

> >

> > On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 11:27 PM, bill_schoenbart <plantmed2

> >wrote:

> >

> >> Nam,

> >>

> >> Think before you speak. A mother appealed for help for her autistic

> >> son, and you post some nonsense about it being caused by abuse.

> Aside

> >> from the fact that it isn't true, how do you think this makes a

> mother

> >> feel to hear something like that? She is already undergoing great

> >> difficulty due to a tragedy, and then you blame her?

> >>

> >> Your apology seems sincere, but it is best to avoid offending

> people

> >> in the first place. There are always going to be disagreements, but

> >> you really crossed the line this time.

> >>

> >> - Bill

> >>

> >> --- In

> Chinese Medicine

> @<Chinese Medicine%40>,

> >> " dr_namnguyen58 "

> >>

> >> <dr_namnguyen58 wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Dear Julie and or with Dr. Mark Milotay, and or to all,

> >> >

> >> > Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, everybody !!!!!!!!!!

> >> >

> >> > I am sorry for my words of expression. I do not mean to teach or

> >> > offend or try to provoke anyone. If I had, there was not

> intention.

> >> > Again, I truly apologize for all of my actions.

> >> > I have tried to share information that I came across, by no mean

> >> > of teaching nor insulting anybody. If all messages I shared

> that have

> >> > offended someone, please forgive me, in my heart I had no

> intention.

> >> > Information is for thought and idea to work out more. It is an

> idea of

> >> > one's approach or experience, it should not literally be taken

> as a

> >> > definition........... Probably, I had used certain words or

> phrases

> >> > which have hurt someone, please correct me.

> >> > Dr. Mark Milotay, if you feel that my messages won't help, thanks

> >> > for your judgment. I will not post any again. But what message

> has

> >> > offended our fellowship, I do not get this. Please help me to

> correct

> >> > my behavior. Please forgive me ! And please ask the

> administrator to

> >> > remove my name from this group, for my misbehavior.

> >> >

> >> > Sincerely,

> >> > Thanks to all,

> >> >

> >> > Nam Nguyen

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > --- In

> Chinese Medicine

> @<Chinese Medicine%40>,

> >> " Julie Ormonde "

> >> > <cariadanam@> wrote:

> >> > >

> >> > > Nam, if you recall we round and round awhile back about this

> subject

> >> > and I

> >> > > respectfully ask that you keep your opionions to yourself.

> >> > >

> >> > > Thank You

> >> > > Julie

> >> > >

> >> > > On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 9:26 PM, dr_namnguyen58

> >> > <dr_namnguyen58@>wrote:

> >> > >

> >> > > > Dear Julie,

> >> > > > To me Autism is a kind of mental disturbance, not physical

> problem.

> >> > > > We , TCM , all try to look for phlegm, blood or Qi

> >> stagnation,heat or

> >> > > > cold , deficiency or excess, we may not find a solution for

> it.

> >> > > > I have seen a few cases of autism. Personally, I think a

> child had

> >> > > > or has been mentally abused - some parents defended

> themselves,

> >> " Oh,

> >> > > > that would never happen... To me, " Who knows ? " -. He or

> she became

> >> > > > timid, scared or frightened of others including his or her

> own

> >> > > > parents. The child loses faith in their love ones and

> subconsciously

> >> > > > thinks that they will never help or protect him or her.

> This child

> >> > > > then isolates himself or herself to protect his or her

> >> > > > own.................... Has the child been taking care by

> someone

> >> > > > else? By relatives? By agents? By neighbors?

> >> > > > I seen the child has lost his or her love and trust. I have

> seen a

> >> > > > child had been physically abused by his or her step

> ( father or

> >> mother

> >> > > > ), or caretaker. And when he or she reported to his or her

> parents,

> >> > > > they took it lightly, the child has been hurt and lost

> trust in

> >> them.

> >> > > > I had advised the parents to spend more time and find out

> what a

> >> > > > child most interested in... Learn and work together with

> him or her

> >> > > > and give him interest, listen to him more, give him more

> love, and

> >> > > > assure that your action provide his protection. As long as a

> >> child has

> >> > > > gained love , interested , and trust in you, you can lead

> him out of

> >> > > > autism. Give him confidence that he can stand up and fight

> for his

> >> > own...

> >> > > > Ex : If a child loves cartoon, watch with him, then ask him

> the

> >> > > > character's name, and what he like about that character. If

> he loves

> >> > > > to draw, ask him to teach us how to draw, and ask him for

> grading...

> >> > > > Make him feel important!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NEVER TURN AWAY

> FROM HIM

> >> > > > WHEN HE NEED US AND NEVER USE NEGATIVE COMPLIMENTS...

> >> > > >

> >> > > > Good luck Julie !

> >> > > >

> >> > > > Nam Nguyen

> >> > > >

> >> > > >

> >> > > >

> >> > >

> >> > >

> >> > >

> >> > > --

> >> > > Julie Ormonde, L.Ac.

> >> > > www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com

> >> > >

> >> > >

> >> > >

[Guest guest]

Sharon -

 

very helpful, thank you, a few questions:

 

why do you feel the skin and hair are a sign of systemic phlegm?

 

do you think with the Shi Wei Wen Dan Tang - it would cause loose stools and

if so would this be a good thing? a purging of sorts, a few parents that

have been on TCM treatments have seen loose stools and rash with their

formulas and I am wondering about this, I have no idea what their formulas

are though. The rash would be a good sign in that toxins are coming out I

would suppose.

 

why would you leave out the Shu Di and Wu Wei Zi? I see the mention of Shi

Chang Pu alot for phlegm misting, do you think this would be a good

addition?

 

I have never heard of opening up Qi to bring back Kidney essence, could you

explain this more?

Thanks!!

Julie

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 4:48 AM, sharon weizenbaum <sweiz wrote:

 

> Hi Julie,

>

> Thanks for the update.

>

> A couple of thoughts about the diagnosis...

>

> I would not treat Kidney deficiency. In spite of the slow achievement

> of milestones, I think it is the essence that is effected rather that

> the essence as a cause.

>

> In terms of the Heart, the red tip is heat and the curling up is a

> sign of excess heat.

>

> In my own training and experience with treating consciousness

> disorders, when the symptoms are strange such as talking to one's

> self, hand flapping, strange screaming, inability to focus or process

> - there is phlegm involved. Also it sounds like he goes through

> cycles of build up - with hyper-activity, irritability, insomnia,

> hyper-sensitivity and then fatigue, withdrawal. It is interesting

> that his symptoms improve with discharge - anger and illness. Though

> I agree with you about the Spleen Qi deficiency, with the stagnation

> in the digestion, bloating, tendency to constipation along with the

> above stagnation symptoms, I would make sure I was opening and

> clearing. In my experience, this opening and clearing itself can

> fortify a weak Spleen just as the stasis can weaken the Spleen and

> Kidneys. In other words, I'd be careful about too much tonification.

> The dryness of the skin and coarse hair, to me, are explained by the

> systemic phlegm.

>

> So, my suggestion in terms of treatment is Shi Wei Wen Dan Tang

> without Shu Di Huang or Wu Wei Zi. I would increase of Ban Xia and

> Zhi Shi. I would also add a small bit of Huang Lian (excellent for

> clearing heat from the heart) and Hou Po. The formula does supplement

> his Spleen though you may want to add Bai Zhu.

>

> I would want to see the bloating and distention and constipation get

> better first. I suggest opening up his Qi mechanism and then seeing

> how this brings life back to his Kidney essence.

>

> I'd love to hear how this goes or what your thoughts are.

>

> My best,

>

> Sharon

>

> Sharon Weizenbaum

> 86 Henry Street

> Amherst, MA 01002

> www.whitepinehealingarts.com

> sweiz <sweiz%40rcn.com>

>

>

[Guest guest]

si shen cong

 

Chinese Medicine , " "

<johnkokko wrote:

>

> Jason,

> What are the 4 devils?

>

> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 7:39 PM, jasonwcom <jasonwcom wrote:

>

> > Just curious did he have several vaccines in a row? Chlorella algae

> > (cracked cell wall)can help detox heavy metals from vaccines, also

> > cilantro juice...Some autism is like chrohn's disease creating a

> > phlegm in the brain so herbs like chang pu and yuan zhi for the brain

> > and herbs that sooth and cool the intestines(da huang) and boost the

> > metabolism of toxin(spleen herbs)...Then there is progression to food

> > allergies(boost spleen, clean colon) and precicios puberty(tonify yin

> > strongly).

> >

> > You could try something like very mild doses of run chang wan and bai

> > zi ren wan to start.

> >

> > From your description of the tongue it sounds like damp in the l.j.

> > heat in the heart and wind, cracks and skinny arms stomach

> > inflammation heat.

> > You could do some minimal acupuncture kids get rapid results from few

> > needles:

> > A simple treatment would be like needle rn 4(touch the needle tip to

> > the peritonium) or s.i lower he sea point, shen men or ear shen men,

> > or rn14(don't go deep danger), st36 or rn12(touch peritonium, lv1(wood

> > controls wind) or gb8 or 7 or gb 20(you can thread gb20 to anmen to

> > make it safer on a moving kid), maybe add sp3 or 6, bai hui, 4 devils

> > do only a few points at a time and do it 2-3 times a week to really

> > help him.

> >

> > You could do some minimal acupuncture kids get fast result:

> >

> > --- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> > " Julie Ormonde "

> >

> > <cariadanam@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Some clarification on pulse - I forgot to write that it is slippery.

> > Also

> > > last night when I was awake in the middle of the night (yes mom

needs a

> > > treatment too, lol) it occured to me in one of those " duh "

moments that

> > > children have a higher heart rate than adults, with research the

> > normal hb

> > > up to 10 yrs is 70-120, so his pulse is not rapid in terms of

> > children, I'd

> > > be interested in what any of the peds practitioners out there think

> > in terms

> > > of TCM?

> > >

> > > On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Julie Ormonde <cariadanam@> wrote:

> > >

> > > > I am looking for help for my 7yo son with Autism. We have had

steady

> > > > growth since his diagnosis 4 years ago and have never used TCM. I

> > would

> > > > like some help especially since I am his mom and may miss

> > something and also

> > > > I don't particularly practice pediatrics/neurological

disorders. I am

> > > > particularly looking for herbal advice.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > At 3 Tristan was a screaming, handflapping, nonverbal mess of a

> > child. He

> > > > now is a happy 7 yo mainstreamed and doing awesome, we really are

> > close to

> > > > recovery. I really need help with his focus/attention, auditory

> > processing,

> > > > and leaky gut issues/weak nutrient absorption, viral issues.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > S & S

> > > > Normal weight/solid feels heavier than looks, short stature, too

> > short for

> > > > age

> > > >

> > > > Good skin tone

> > > >

> > > > Trunk and arm muscles hypotonic

> > > >

> > > > Late end of milestone marks

> > > >

> > > > Lost language, now has full language but has the following

issues: not

> > > > clearly communicating thoughts, starts in the middle of a thought

> > – no lead

> > > > in, no conversational language, all expressive issues

> > > >

> > > > Acute visual and hearing – 20/20 and tests out hearing machine

at its

> > > > highest levels, covers ears at times (this has steadily improved)

> > > >

> > > > Focus and attention deficits – probably our biggest issue,

> > especially in a

> > > > classroom setting

> > > >

> > > > Auditory processing disorder – input is much better one on

one, poor

> > > > listening skills in group/classroom situations

> > > >

> > > > Symptoms improve with illness and anger (suspect viral issue)

> > > >

> > > > Used to be aggressive (this has steadily improved)

> > > >

> > > > Zones out

> > > >

> > > > In general very passive, unmotivated, could easily slip through

> > the cracks,

> > > > quiet

> > > >

> > > > Extremely loving nature, definitely feels emotion

> > > >

> > > > Does things for purpose not just because, for example doesn't

> > chit-chat

> > > > this is pointless to him.

> > > >

> > > > Good reading skills, poor math and art skills

> > > >

> > > > Very visual

> > > >

> > > > Balance, coordination, proprioceptive issues (3-4 year level),

> > can't cross

> > > > midline

> > > >

> > > > Can get hyper with physical exercise

> > > >

> > > > Play – likes other kids but doesn't really know how to start or

> > maintain

> > > > play, kids just think he's shy

> > > >

> > > > Constipation – every other day (getting better with magnesium and

> > yeast tx)

> > > >

> > > > Sleep – insomnia – will be awake for hours sitting quietly in

his room

> > > > Milk allergy, enzyme therapy has been phenomenal for this,

Leaky Gut

> > > > Had DPT, HIB, and Prevnar at 2, 4, 6 months, reacted more

> > severely with

> > > > each group w/ the last one inconsolable crying for 18 hours,

> > fever, lump in

> > > > leg at vax site, decided to no longer vax

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Tongue: slightly pale, red tip w/ notch that curls up, white going

> > to pale

> > > > yellow coat in back, small cracks mid tongue, very quivery

> > > >

> > > > Pulse: rapid (100bpm), irregularly irregular (seems to be

new), thread

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Bio Med Txs – see other email post about heartbeat it has

supplements

> > > > listed

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > My thoughts: Sp qi xu w/ damp, Ht qi/blood xu w/ some signs of

> > heat but not

> > > > excessive, Kid qi and essence xu, phlegm misting the

> > mind/orifices/heart

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > This is an herbal formula I found by

> > > > http://chineseacupuncture-wnc.com/pdfs/cm_autism_practitioner.pdf

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > *Basic Autism Formulas*

> > > >

> > > > *Deficiency Shi Syndrome Syndrome*

> > > >

> > > > Shi Chang Pu Shi Chang Pu

> > > >

> > > > Yuan Zhi Yuan Zhi

> > > >

> > > > Tian Zhu Huang Tian Zhu Huang

> > > >

> > > > Qian Shi Qian Shi

> > > >

> > > > Long Chi Long Chi

> > > >

> > > > Bai Zhu Huang Lian

> > > >

> > > > Tian Nan Xing Rou Gui

> > > >

> > > > Bei Xie Suan Zao Ren

> > > >

> > > > Bai Zi Ren Hu Po

> > > >

> > > > Xi Yang Shen Dan Zhu Ye

> > > >

> > > > Chuan Xiong Yu Jin

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I was thinking the def formula with some Yu Jin, Bai He, He Shou

> > Wu and

> > > > Dang Gui

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I'd love input, dosage ideas, herbal ideas, etc I am overwhelmed

> > with just

> > > > moving, starting a new clinic (again!), recovering my son, and

> > having 3

> > > > small children, etc and don't want to mess this up and not much

> > time to

> > > > research.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Please ask any questions,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Thanks!!!

> > > >

> > > > Julie

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > Julie Ormonde, L.Ac.

> > > www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I wrote a really through response to this on the 24th but it never

posted, I'll try to re-do

 

Whatever the reason there is SOME reason you are NOT asking for

acupuncture advice, maybe you want to share it maybe not. I know how

to really get results with conditions like this, I think its a serious

condition that warrents aggressive, prophylactic treatment to prevent

progression and insure normal development, real acupuncture combined

with appropriate herbs is the most powerful modality I know of to

treat it...

 

Quivering tongue indicates wind that is basic fundamentals, seizures

are extreme flaring of wind. You can have wind with out seizures.

Tourettes and some types of ocd are other mental conditions that are

wind disorders...

 

S.i. malfunction creating a lot of phlegm in the brain

 

A lot of " leaky gut " is due to blockage and inflammation in the

intestines Da huang is the best herb to treat it detoxifies the

intestines gets peristalsys going and cools inflammation. Herbs that

calm shen and chase away wind like bai zi ren and shou wu li, herbs

that treat phlegm in the brain like chang pu...Run chang wan and bai

zi ren use 1/3 -1/4 of the adult dose...

 

Blessings,

-JB

 

Chinese Medicine , " Julie Ormonde "

<cariadanam wrote:

>

> Today: I don't take offense at your suggesting acupuncture, I take

offense

> at your suggesting I'd rather treat others than my " own flesh and blood "

> From my post on Dec 18:

>

> Jason he was vaccinated with the vaccines I listed before at 2, 4, and 6

> mos. This was about half of what was actually recommended. I felt

> physcially ill over the decision and actually had to leave the room

when he

> got them, it was the biggest mistake I ever ever ever made, ALWAYS

follow

> your gut instinct, mine was screaming and I ignored it because western

> medical literature scares you into vaccines. But then again maybe

none of

> this has to do with neurotoxins or genetics or the enviroment or

weak immune

> systems and really all of us hundreds of thousands of parents are

just not

> loving our children and/or abusing them and while we are abusing

them we are

> spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on therapies, losing our homes

> losing ourselves trying to recover them, but I digress...

>

> I am curious as to why you bring up wind, he doesn't have nay tremors or

> seizures, while wind can be an issue with these kids I am not seeing

it in

> mine?

>

> I was thinking of a combo of the following formulas: zhi gan cao

tang (but I

> have figured out it seems to the GSE that was affecting his heartbeat so

> maybe this isn't as needed although I think he still has a

predisposition to

> irreg heartbeat and it certainly makes sense that he would), yang

xin tang,

> and a smaller percentage of wen dan tang, I think the heat needs

addressed

> but I don't know that I think it is the root.

>

> I'd really really like input, I know you herbal gurus are out there,

can you

> weigh in please I am trying to stick to formulas without single herb

> additions just for my ease of use, using combos would be easier.

>

> Julie

>

>

>

> On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 11:36 AM, jasonwcom <jasonwcom wrote:

>

> > I don't know why you'd take offense at my suggesting

acupuncture, it's

> > a serious condition why not use all the tools you have, please don't

> > be mad at me for simply trying to help...I didn't see your questions,

> > ask again and I will gladly answer.

> >

> > --- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> > " Julie Ormonde "

> > <cariadanam@> wrote:

> > >

> > > I responded to your post with questions, I obviously read it and was

> > > interested in your opinion, what is up??

> > >

> > > On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 2:36 PM, jasonwcom <jasonwcom@> wrote:

> > >

> > > > I'll repeat

> > > >

> > > > Try bai zi ren wan and run chang wan together at a mild dose

> > > >

> > > > --- In

> >

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> > <Chinese Medicine%40>,

> >

> > > > " Julie Ormonde "

> > > > <cariadanam@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > I did have my say and I have let it go, now maybe someone could

> > > > actually try

> > > > > to help me HERBALLY?

> > > > >

> > > > > On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Hi All:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " neurotoxins or genetics or the enviroment or weak immune

> > > > > > systems and really all of us hundreds of thousands of

parents are

> > > > just not

> > > > > > loving our children and/or abusing them and while we are

abusing

> > > > them we

> > > > > > are

> > > > > > spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on therapies,

losing our

> > > > homes

> > > > > > losing ourselves trying to recover them, but I digress... "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I Ching Hexagram 4. Meng

> > > > > > In punishing folly

> > > > > > It does not further one

> > > > > > To commit transgressions.

> > > > > > The only thing that furthers

> > > > > > Is to prevent transgressions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I don't believe ad hominem attacks, defamation or libel are

> > > > appropriate in

> > > > > > this forum - maybe elsewhere. This forum is ostensibly

about the

> > > > healing of

> > > > > > the human heart. The man apologised PROFUSELY, and he

clearly did

> > > > not intend

> > > > > > harm. Please let it go.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hugo

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ________________________________

> > > > > > Hugo Ramiro

> > > > > > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

> > > > > > http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Oh my gosh, I am not against acupuncture, I am very open to acupuncture

advice, I just really wanted to get herbal advice. Please, I'd love for you

to share it, but even more I'd love for people to share their herbal

wisdom. I just did acupuncture on my daughter for a nagging cough, I AM NOT

AGAINST ACUPUNCTURE, I promise You are reading too much into this.

 

Thank you for your herbal thoughts. Have you found any side effects to

purging with Da Huang, any exasperation of heat signs while it's on its way

out?

 

I have learned quivery tongue is qi and blood deficiency, a flapping,

lolling, or deviated tongue is wind. Where do you get this info from, it

makes sense but I have not learned it that way.

Thanks

Julie

On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 12:02 PM, jasonwcom <jasonwcom wrote:

 

> I wrote a really through response to this on the 24th but it never

> posted, I'll try to re-do

>

> Whatever the reason there is SOME reason you are NOT asking for

> acupuncture advice, maybe you want to share it maybe not. I know how

> to really get results with conditions like this, I think its a serious

> condition that warrents aggressive, prophylactic treatment to prevent

> progression and insure normal development, real acupuncture combined

> with appropriate herbs is the most powerful modality I know of to

> treat it...

>

> Quivering tongue indicates wind that is basic fundamentals, seizures

> are extreme flaring of wind. You can have wind with out seizures.

> Tourettes and some types of ocd are other mental conditions that are

> wind disorders...

>

> S.i. malfunction creating a lot of phlegm in the brain

>

> A lot of " leaky gut " is due to blockage and inflammation in the

> intestines Da huang is the best herb to treat it detoxifies the

> intestines gets peristalsys going and cools inflammation. Herbs that

> calm shen and chase away wind like bai zi ren and shou wu li, herbs

> that treat phlegm in the brain like chang pu...Run chang wan and bai

> zi ren use 1/3 -1/4 of the adult dose...

>

> Blessings,

> -JB

>

> --- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> " Julie Ormonde "

> <cariadanam wrote:

> >

> > Today: I don't take offense at your suggesting acupuncture, I take

> offense

> > at your suggesting I'd rather treat others than my " own flesh and blood "

> > From my post on Dec 18:

> >

> > Jason he was vaccinated with the vaccines I listed before at 2, 4, and 6

> > mos. This was about half of what was actually recommended. I felt

> > physcially ill over the decision and actually had to leave the room

> when he

> > got them, it was the biggest mistake I ever ever ever made, ALWAYS

> follow

> > your gut instinct, mine was screaming and I ignored it because western

> > medical literature scares you into vaccines. But then again maybe

> none of

> > this has to do with neurotoxins or genetics or the enviroment or

> weak immune

> > systems and really all of us hundreds of thousands of parents are

> just not

> > loving our children and/or abusing them and while we are abusing

> them we are

> > spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on therapies, losing our homes

> > losing ourselves trying to recover them, but I digress...

> >

> > I am curious as to why you bring up wind, he doesn't have nay tremors or

> > seizures, while wind can be an issue with these kids I am not seeing

> it in

> > mine?

> >

> > I was thinking of a combo of the following formulas: zhi gan cao

> tang (but I

> > have figured out it seems to the GSE that was affecting his heartbeat so

> > maybe this isn't as needed although I think he still has a

> predisposition to

> > irreg heartbeat and it certainly makes sense that he would), yang

> xin tang,

> > and a smaller percentage of wen dan tang, I think the heat needs

> addressed

> > but I don't know that I think it is the root.

> >

> > I'd really really like input, I know you herbal gurus are out there,

> can you

> > weigh in please I am trying to stick to formulas without single herb

> > additions just for my ease of use, using combos would be easier.

> >

> > Julie

> >

> >

> >

> > On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 11:36 AM, jasonwcom <jasonwcom wrote:

> >

> > > I don't know why you'd take offense at my suggesting

> acupuncture, it's

> > > a serious condition why not use all the tools you have, please don't

> > > be mad at me for simply trying to help...I didn't see your questions,

> > > ask again and I will gladly answer.

> > >

> > > --- In

>

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> <Chinese Medicine%40>,

> > > " Julie Ormonde "

> > > <cariadanam@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > I responded to your post with questions, I obviously read it and was

> > > > interested in your opinion, what is up??

> > > >

> > > > On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 2:36 PM, jasonwcom <jasonwcom@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > I'll repeat

> > > > >

> > > > > Try bai zi ren wan and run chang wan together at a mild dose

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In

> > >

>

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> <Chinese Medicine%40>

> > > <Chinese Medicine%40>,

> > >

> > > > > " Julie Ormonde "

> > > > > <cariadanam@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I did have my say and I have let it go, now maybe someone could

> > > > > actually try

> > > > > > to help me HERBALLY?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hi All:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " neurotoxins or genetics or the enviroment or weak immune

> > > > > > > systems and really all of us hundreds of thousands of

> parents are

> > > > > just not

> > > > > > > loving our children and/or abusing them and while we are

> abusing

> > > > > them we

> > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on therapies,

> losing our

> > > > > homes

> > > > > > > losing ourselves trying to recover them, but I digress... "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I Ching Hexagram 4. Meng

> > > > > > > In punishing folly

> > > > > > > It does not further one

> > > > > > > To commit transgressions.

> > > > > > > The only thing that furthers

> > > > > > > Is to prevent transgressions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I don't believe ad hominem attacks, defamation or libel are

> > > > > appropriate in

> > > > > > > this forum - maybe elsewhere. This forum is ostensibly

> about the

> > > > > healing of

> > > > > > > the human heart. The man apologised PROFUSELY, and he

> clearly did

> > > > > not intend

> > > > > > > harm. Please let it go.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hugo

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ________________________________

> > > > > > > Hugo Ramiro

> > > > > > > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

> > > > > > > http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Blood def. can cause wind because wind stirs up in emptyness, such as

a valley in nature fire and phlegm-fire(the worst) create wind because

of the flaring and flickering of the fire like in nature, phlegm

creates wind I think because the body tries to shake itself up to get

the phlegm moving and cleared out...My old post had some good

acupuncture advice. Da huang is dangerous a little because you don't

want to use too much and shock the intestines, also its very cold so

its not good for very long -term use because it can damage the yang...

Bai zi yang xin wan(a very safe tonic) is what I meant w/ run chang

wan...Hope it helps,

-JB

 

Chinese Medicine , " Julie Ormonde "

<cariadanam wrote:

>

> Oh my gosh, I am not against acupuncture, I am very open to acupuncture

> advice, I just really wanted to get herbal advice. Please, I'd love

for you

> to share it, but even more I'd love for people to share their herbal

> wisdom. I just did acupuncture on my daughter for a nagging cough,

I AM NOT

> AGAINST ACUPUNCTURE, I promise You are reading too much into this.

>

> Thank you for your herbal thoughts. Have you found any side effects to

> purging with Da Huang, any exasperation of heat signs while it's on

its way

> out?

>

> I have learned quivery tongue is qi and blood deficiency, a flapping,

> lolling, or deviated tongue is wind. Where do you get this info

from, it

> makes sense but I have not learned it that way.

> Thanks

> Julie

> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 12:02 PM, jasonwcom <jasonwcom wrote:

>

> > I wrote a really through response to this on the 24th but it never

> > posted, I'll try to re-do

> >

> > Whatever the reason there is SOME reason you are NOT asking for

> > acupuncture advice, maybe you want to share it maybe not. I know how

> > to really get results with conditions like this, I think its a serious

> > condition that warrents aggressive, prophylactic treatment to prevent

> > progression and insure normal development, real acupuncture combined

> > with appropriate herbs is the most powerful modality I know of to

> > treat it...

> >

> > Quivering tongue indicates wind that is basic fundamentals, seizures

> > are extreme flaring of wind. You can have wind with out seizures.

> > Tourettes and some types of ocd are other mental conditions that are

> > wind disorders...

> >

> > S.i. malfunction creating a lot of phlegm in the brain

> >

> > A lot of " leaky gut " is due to blockage and inflammation in the

> > intestines Da huang is the best herb to treat it detoxifies the

> > intestines gets peristalsys going and cools inflammation. Herbs that

> > calm shen and chase away wind like bai zi ren and shou wu li, herbs

> > that treat phlegm in the brain like chang pu...Run chang wan and bai

> > zi ren use 1/3 -1/4 of the adult dose...

> >

> > Blessings,

> > -JB

> >

> > --- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> > " Julie Ormonde "

> > <cariadanam@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Today: I don't take offense at your suggesting acupuncture, I take

> > offense

> > > at your suggesting I'd rather treat others than my " own flesh

and blood "

> > > From my post on Dec 18:

> > >

> > > Jason he was vaccinated with the vaccines I listed before at 2,

4, and 6

> > > mos. This was about half of what was actually recommended. I felt

> > > physcially ill over the decision and actually had to leave the room

> > when he

> > > got them, it was the biggest mistake I ever ever ever made, ALWAYS

> > follow

> > > your gut instinct, mine was screaming and I ignored it because

western

> > > medical literature scares you into vaccines. But then again maybe

> > none of

> > > this has to do with neurotoxins or genetics or the enviroment or

> > weak immune

> > > systems and really all of us hundreds of thousands of parents are

> > just not

> > > loving our children and/or abusing them and while we are abusing

> > them we are

> > > spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on therapies, losing

our homes

> > > losing ourselves trying to recover them, but I digress...

> > >

> > > I am curious as to why you bring up wind, he doesn't have nay

tremors or

> > > seizures, while wind can be an issue with these kids I am not seeing

> > it in

> > > mine?

> > >

> > > I was thinking of a combo of the following formulas: zhi gan cao

> > tang (but I

> > > have figured out it seems to the GSE that was affecting his

heartbeat so

> > > maybe this isn't as needed although I think he still has a

> > predisposition to

> > > irreg heartbeat and it certainly makes sense that he would), yang

> > xin tang,

> > > and a smaller percentage of wen dan tang, I think the heat needs

> > addressed

> > > but I don't know that I think it is the root.

> > >

> > > I'd really really like input, I know you herbal gurus are out there,

> > can you

> > > weigh in please I am trying to stick to formulas without

single herb

> > > additions just for my ease of use, using combos would be easier.

> > >

> > > Julie

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 11:36 AM, jasonwcom <jasonwcom@> wrote:

> > >

> > > > I don't know why you'd take offense at my suggesting

> > acupuncture, it's

> > > > a serious condition why not use all the tools you have, please

don't

> > > > be mad at me for simply trying to help...I didn't see your

questions,

> > > > ask again and I will gladly answer.

> > > >

> > > > --- In

> >

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> > <Chinese Medicine%40>,

> > > > " Julie Ormonde "

> > > > <cariadanam@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > I responded to your post with questions, I obviously read it

and was

> > > > > interested in your opinion, what is up??

> > > > >

> > > > > On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 2:36 PM, jasonwcom <jasonwcom@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > I'll repeat

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Try bai zi ren wan and run chang wan together at a mild dose

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In

> > > >

> >

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> > <Chinese Medicine%40>

> > > > <Chinese Medicine%40>,

> > > >

> > > > > > " Julie Ormonde "

> > > > > > <cariadanam@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I did have my say and I have let it go, now maybe

someone could

> > > > > > actually try

> > > > > > > to help me HERBALLY?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Hugo Ramiro

<subincor@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Hi All:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > " neurotoxins or genetics or the enviroment or weak immune

> > > > > > > > systems and really all of us hundreds of thousands of

> > parents are

> > > > > > just not

> > > > > > > > loving our children and/or abusing them and while we are

> > abusing

> > > > > > them we

> > > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on therapies,

> > losing our

> > > > > > homes

> > > > > > > > losing ourselves trying to recover them, but I digress... "

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I Ching Hexagram 4. Meng

> > > > > > > > In punishing folly

> > > > > > > > It does not further one

> > > > > > > > To commit transgressions.

> > > > > > > > The only thing that furthers

> > > > > > > > Is to prevent transgressions.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I don't believe ad hominem attacks, defamation or

libel are

> > > > > > appropriate in

> > > > > > > > this forum - maybe elsewhere. This forum is ostensibly

> > about the

> > > > > > healing of

> > > > > > > > the human heart. The man apologised PROFUSELY, and he

> > clearly did

> > > > > > not intend

> > > > > > > > harm. Please let it go.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Hugo

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > ________________________________

> > > > > > > > Hugo Ramiro

> > > > > > > > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

> > > > > > > > http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >