Guest guest Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 I am looking for help for my 7yo son with Autism. We have had steady growth since his diagnosis 4 years ago and have never used TCM. I would like some help especially since I am his mom and may miss something and also I don't particularly practice pediatrics/neurological disorders. I am particularly looking for herbal advice. At 3 Tristan was a screaming, handflapping, nonverbal mess of a child. He now is a happy 7 yo mainstreamed and doing awesome, we really are close to recovery. I really need help with his focus/attention, auditory processing, and leaky gut issues/weak nutrient absorption, viral issues. S & S Normal weight/solid feels heavier than looks, short stature, too short for age Good skin tone Trunk and arm muscles hypotonic Late end of milestone marks Lost language, now has full language but has the following issues: not clearly communicating thoughts, starts in the middle of a thought – no lead in, no conversational language, all expressive issues Acute visual and hearing – 20/20 and tests out hearing machine at its highest levels, covers ears at times (this has steadily improved) Focus and attention deficits – probably our biggest issue, especially in a classroom setting Auditory processing disorder – input is much better one on one, poor listening skills in group/classroom situations Symptoms improve with illness and anger (suspect viral issue) Used to be aggressive (this has steadily improved) Zones out In general very passive, unmotivated, could easily slip through the cracks, quiet Extremely loving nature, definitely feels emotion Does things for purpose not just because, for example doesn't chit-chat this is pointless to him. Good reading skills, poor math and art skills Very visual Balance, coordination, proprioceptive issues (3-4 year level), can't cross midline Can get hyper with physical exercise Play – likes other kids but doesn't really know how to start or maintain play, kids just think he's shy Constipation – every other day (getting better with magnesium and yeast tx) Sleep – insomnia – will be awake for hours sitting quietly in his room Milk allergy, enzyme therapy has been phenomenal for this, Leaky Gut Had DPT, HIB, and Prevnar at 2, 4, 6 months, reacted more severely with each group w/ the last one inconsolable crying for 18 hours, fever, lump in leg at vax site, decided to no longer vax Tongue: slightly pale, red tip w/ notch that curls up, white going to pale yellow coat in back, small cracks mid tongue, very quivery Pulse: rapid (100bpm), irregularly irregular (seems to be new), thread Bio Med Txs – see other email post about heartbeat it has supplements listed My thoughts: Sp qi xu w/ damp, Ht qi/blood xu w/ some signs of heat but not excessive, Kid qi and essence xu, phlegm misting the mind/orifices/heart This is an herbal formula I found by http://chineseacupuncture-wnc.com/pdfs/cm_autism_practitioner.pdf *Basic Autism Formulas* *Deficiency Shi Syndrome Syndrome* Shi Chang Pu Shi Chang Pu Yuan Zhi Yuan Zhi Tian Zhu Huang Tian Zhu Huang Qian Shi Qian Shi Long Chi Long Chi Bai Zhu Huang Lian Tian Nan Xing Rou Gui Bei Xie Suan Zao Ren Bai Zi Ren Hu Po Xi Yang Shen Dan Zhu Ye Chuan Xiong Yu Jin I was thinking the def formula with some Yu Jin, Bai He, He Shou Wu and Dang Gui I'd love input, dosage ideas, herbal ideas, etc I am overwhelmed with just moving, starting a new clinic (again!), recovering my son, and having 3 small children, etc and don't want to mess this up and not much time to research. Please ask any questions, Thanks!!! Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 Some clarification on pulse - I forgot to write that it is slippery. Also last night when I was awake in the middle of the night (yes mom needs a treatment too, lol) it occured to me in one of those " duh " moments that children have a higher heart rate than adults, with research the normal hb up to 10 yrs is 70-120, so his pulse is not rapid in terms of children, I'd be interested in what any of the peds practitioners out there think in terms of TCM? On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Julie Ormonde <cariadanam wrote: > I am looking for help for my 7yo son with Autism. We have had steady > growth since his diagnosis 4 years ago and have never used TCM. I would > like some help especially since I am his mom and may miss something and also > I don't particularly practice pediatrics/neurological disorders. I am > particularly looking for herbal advice. > > > > At 3 Tristan was a screaming, handflapping, nonverbal mess of a child. He > now is a happy 7 yo mainstreamed and doing awesome, we really are close to > recovery. I really need help with his focus/attention, auditory processing, > and leaky gut issues/weak nutrient absorption, viral issues. > > > S & S > Normal weight/solid feels heavier than looks, short stature, too short for > age > > Good skin tone > > Trunk and arm muscles hypotonic > > Late end of milestone marks > > Lost language, now has full language but has the following issues: not > clearly communicating thoughts, starts in the middle of a thought – no lead > in, no conversational language, all expressive issues > > Acute visual and hearing – 20/20 and tests out hearing machine at its > highest levels, covers ears at times (this has steadily improved) > > Focus and attention deficits – probably our biggest issue, especially in a > classroom setting > > Auditory processing disorder – input is much better one on one, poor > listening skills in group/classroom situations > > Symptoms improve with illness and anger (suspect viral issue) > > Used to be aggressive (this has steadily improved) > > Zones out > > In general very passive, unmotivated, could easily slip through the cracks, > quiet > > Extremely loving nature, definitely feels emotion > > Does things for purpose not just because, for example doesn't chit-chat > this is pointless to him. > > Good reading skills, poor math and art skills > > Very visual > > Balance, coordination, proprioceptive issues (3-4 year level), can't cross > midline > > Can get hyper with physical exercise > > Play – likes other kids but doesn't really know how to start or maintain > play, kids just think he's shy > > Constipation – every other day (getting better with magnesium and yeast tx) > > Sleep – insomnia – will be awake for hours sitting quietly in his room > Milk allergy, enzyme therapy has been phenomenal for this, Leaky Gut > Had DPT, HIB, and Prevnar at 2, 4, 6 months, reacted more severely with > each group w/ the last one inconsolable crying for 18 hours, fever, lump in > leg at vax site, decided to no longer vax > > > > Tongue: slightly pale, red tip w/ notch that curls up, white going to pale > yellow coat in back, small cracks mid tongue, very quivery > > Pulse: rapid (100bpm), irregularly irregular (seems to be new), thread > > > > Bio Med Txs – see other email post about heartbeat it has supplements > listed > > > > My thoughts: Sp qi xu w/ damp, Ht qi/blood xu w/ some signs of heat but not > excessive, Kid qi and essence xu, phlegm misting the mind/orifices/heart > > > > This is an herbal formula I found by > http://chineseacupuncture-wnc.com/pdfs/cm_autism_practitioner.pdf > > > > *Basic Autism Formulas* > > *Deficiency Shi Syndrome Syndrome* > > Shi Chang Pu Shi Chang Pu > > Yuan Zhi Yuan Zhi > > Tian Zhu Huang Tian Zhu Huang > > Qian Shi Qian Shi > > Long Chi Long Chi > > Bai Zhu Huang Lian > > Tian Nan Xing Rou Gui > > Bei Xie Suan Zao Ren > > Bai Zi Ren Hu Po > > Xi Yang Shen Dan Zhu Ye > > Chuan Xiong Yu Jin > > > > I was thinking the def formula with some Yu Jin, Bai He, He Shou Wu and > Dang Gui > > > > I'd love input, dosage ideas, herbal ideas, etc I am overwhelmed with just > moving, starting a new clinic (again!), recovering my son, and having 3 > small children, etc and don't want to mess this up and not much time to > research. > > > > Please ask any questions, > > > > Thanks!!! > > Julie > -- Julie Ormonde, L.Ac. www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Just curious did he have several vaccines in a row? Chlorella algae (cracked cell wall)can help detox heavy metals from vaccines, also cilantro juice...Some autism is like chrohn's disease creating a phlegm in the brain so herbs like chang pu and yuan zhi for the brain and herbs that sooth and cool the intestines(da huang) and boost the metabolism of toxin(spleen herbs)...Then there is progression to food allergies(boost spleen, clean colon) and precicios puberty(tonify yin strongly). You could try something like very mild doses of run chang wan and bai zi ren wan to start. From your description of the tongue it sounds like damp in the l.j. heat in the heart and wind, cracks and skinny arms stomach inflammation heat. You could do some minimal acupuncture kids get rapid results from few needles: A simple treatment would be like needle rn 4(touch the needle tip to the peritonium) or s.i lower he sea point, shen men or ear shen men, or rn14(don't go deep danger), st36 or rn12(touch peritonium, lv1(wood controls wind) or gb8 or 7 or gb 20(you can thread gb20 to anmen to make it safer on a moving kid), maybe add sp3 or 6, bai hui, 4 devils do only a few points at a time and do it 2-3 times a week to really help him. You could do some minimal acupuncture kids get fast result: Chinese Medicine , " Julie Ormonde " <cariadanam wrote: > > Some clarification on pulse - I forgot to write that it is slippery. Also > last night when I was awake in the middle of the night (yes mom needs a > treatment too, lol) it occured to me in one of those " duh " moments that > children have a higher heart rate than adults, with research the normal hb > up to 10 yrs is 70-120, so his pulse is not rapid in terms of children, I'd > be interested in what any of the peds practitioners out there think in terms > of TCM? > > On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Julie Ormonde <cariadanam wrote: > > > I am looking for help for my 7yo son with Autism. We have had steady > > growth since his diagnosis 4 years ago and have never used TCM. I would > > like some help especially since I am his mom and may miss something and also > > I don't particularly practice pediatrics/neurological disorders. I am > > particularly looking for herbal advice. > > > > > > > > At 3 Tristan was a screaming, handflapping, nonverbal mess of a child. He > > now is a happy 7 yo mainstreamed and doing awesome, we really are close to > > recovery. I really need help with his focus/attention, auditory processing, > > and leaky gut issues/weak nutrient absorption, viral issues. > > > > > > S & S > > Normal weight/solid feels heavier than looks, short stature, too short for > > age > > > > Good skin tone > > > > Trunk and arm muscles hypotonic > > > > Late end of milestone marks > > > > Lost language, now has full language but has the following issues: not > > clearly communicating thoughts, starts in the middle of a thought – no lead > > in, no conversational language, all expressive issues > > > > Acute visual and hearing – 20/20 and tests out hearing machine at its > > highest levels, covers ears at times (this has steadily improved) > > > > Focus and attention deficits – probably our biggest issue, especially in a > > classroom setting > > > > Auditory processing disorder – input is much better one on one, poor > > listening skills in group/classroom situations > > > > Symptoms improve with illness and anger (suspect viral issue) > > > > Used to be aggressive (this has steadily improved) > > > > Zones out > > > > In general very passive, unmotivated, could easily slip through the cracks, > > quiet > > > > Extremely loving nature, definitely feels emotion > > > > Does things for purpose not just because, for example doesn't chit-chat > > this is pointless to him. > > > > Good reading skills, poor math and art skills > > > > Very visual > > > > Balance, coordination, proprioceptive issues (3-4 year level), can't cross > > midline > > > > Can get hyper with physical exercise > > > > Play – likes other kids but doesn't really know how to start or maintain > > play, kids just think he's shy > > > > Constipation – every other day (getting better with magnesium and yeast tx) > > > > Sleep – insomnia – will be awake for hours sitting quietly in his room > > Milk allergy, enzyme therapy has been phenomenal for this, Leaky Gut > > Had DPT, HIB, and Prevnar at 2, 4, 6 months, reacted more severely with > > each group w/ the last one inconsolable crying for 18 hours, fever, lump in > > leg at vax site, decided to no longer vax > > > > > > > > Tongue: slightly pale, red tip w/ notch that curls up, white going to pale > > yellow coat in back, small cracks mid tongue, very quivery > > > > Pulse: rapid (100bpm), irregularly irregular (seems to be new), thread > > > > > > > > Bio Med Txs – see other email post about heartbeat it has supplements > > listed > > > > > > > > My thoughts: Sp qi xu w/ damp, Ht qi/blood xu w/ some signs of heat but not > > excessive, Kid qi and essence xu, phlegm misting the mind/orifices/heart > > > > > > > > This is an herbal formula I found by > > http://chineseacupuncture-wnc.com/pdfs/cm_autism_practitioner.pdf > > > > > > > > *Basic Autism Formulas* > > > > *Deficiency Shi Syndrome Syndrome* > > > > Shi Chang Pu Shi Chang Pu > > > > Yuan Zhi Yuan Zhi > > > > Tian Zhu Huang Tian Zhu Huang > > > > Qian Shi Qian Shi > > > > Long Chi Long Chi > > > > Bai Zhu Huang Lian > > > > Tian Nan Xing Rou Gui > > > > Bei Xie Suan Zao Ren > > > > Bai Zi Ren Hu Po > > > > Xi Yang Shen Dan Zhu Ye > > > > Chuan Xiong Yu Jin > > > > > > > > I was thinking the def formula with some Yu Jin, Bai He, He Shou Wu and > > Dang Gui > > > > > > > > I'd love input, dosage ideas, herbal ideas, etc I am overwhelmed with just > > moving, starting a new clinic (again!), recovering my son, and having 3 > > small children, etc and don't want to mess this up and not much time to > > research. > > > > > > > > Please ask any questions, > > > > > > > > Thanks!!! > > > > Julie > > > > > > -- > Julie Ormonde, L.Ac. > www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Dear Julie, To me Autism is a kind of mental disturbance, not physical problem. We , TCM , all try to look for phlegm, blood or Qi stagnation,heat or cold , deficiency or excess, we may not find a solution for it. I have seen a few cases of autism. Personally, I think a child had or has been mentally abused - some parents defended themselves, " Oh, that would never happen... To me, " Who knows ? " -. He or she became timid, scared or frightened of others including his or her own parents. The child loses faith in their love ones and subconsciously thinks that they will never help or protect him or her. This child then isolates himself or herself to protect his or her own.................... Has the child been taking care by someone else? By relatives? By agents? By neighbors? I seen the child has lost his or her love and trust. I have seen a child had been physically abused by his or her step ( father or mother ), or caretaker. And when he or she reported to his or her parents, they took it lightly, the child has been hurt and lost trust in them. I had advised the parents to spend more time and find out what a child most interested in... Learn and work together with him or her and give him interest, listen to him more, give him more love, and assure that your action provide his protection. As long as a child has gained love , interested , and trust in you, you can lead him out of autism. Give him confidence that he can stand up and fight for his own... Ex : If a child loves cartoon, watch with him, then ask him the character's name, and what he like about that character. If he loves to draw, ask him to teach us how to draw, and ask him for grading... Make him feel important!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NEVER TURN AWAY FROM HIM WHEN HE NEED US AND NEVER USE NEGATIVE COMPLIMENTS... Good luck Julie ! Nam Nguyen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2008 Report Share Posted December 17, 2008 Nam, if you recall we round and round awhile back about this subject and I respectfully ask that you keep your opionions to yourself. Thank You Julie On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 9:26 PM, dr_namnguyen58 <dr_namnguyen58wrote: > Dear Julie, > To me Autism is a kind of mental disturbance, not physical problem. > We , TCM , all try to look for phlegm, blood or Qi stagnation,heat or > cold , deficiency or excess, we may not find a solution for it. > I have seen a few cases of autism. Personally, I think a child had > or has been mentally abused - some parents defended themselves, " Oh, > that would never happen... To me, " Who knows ? " -. He or she became > timid, scared or frightened of others including his or her own > parents. The child loses faith in their love ones and subconsciously > thinks that they will never help or protect him or her. This child > then isolates himself or herself to protect his or her > own.................... Has the child been taking care by someone > else? By relatives? By agents? By neighbors? > I seen the child has lost his or her love and trust. I have seen a > child had been physically abused by his or her step ( father or mother > ), or caretaker. And when he or she reported to his or her parents, > they took it lightly, the child has been hurt and lost trust in them. > I had advised the parents to spend more time and find out what a > child most interested in... Learn and work together with him or her > and give him interest, listen to him more, give him more love, and > assure that your action provide his protection. As long as a child has > gained love , interested , and trust in you, you can lead him out of > autism. Give him confidence that he can stand up and fight for his own... > Ex : If a child loves cartoon, watch with him, then ask him the > character's name, and what he like about that character. If he loves > to draw, ask him to teach us how to draw, and ask him for grading... > Make him feel important!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NEVER TURN AWAY FROM HIM > WHEN HE NEED US AND NEVER USE NEGATIVE COMPLIMENTS... > > Good luck Julie ! > > Nam Nguyen > > > -- Julie Ormonde, L.Ac. www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Dear Julie and or with Dr. Mark Milotay, and or to all, Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, everybody !!!!!!!!!! I am sorry for my words of expression. I do not mean to teach or offend or try to provoke anyone. If I had, there was not intention. Again, I truly apologize for all of my actions. I have tried to share information that I came across, by no mean of teaching nor insulting anybody. If all messages I shared that have offended someone, please forgive me, in my heart I had no intention. Information is for thought and idea to work out more. It is an idea of one's approach or experience, it should not literally be taken as a definition........... Probably, I had used certain words or phrases which have hurt someone, please correct me. Dr. Mark Milotay, if you feel that my messages won't help, thanks for your judgment. I will not post any again. But what message has offended our fellowship, I do not get this. Please help me to correct my behavior. Please forgive me ! And please ask the administrator to remove my name from this group, for my misbehavior. Sincerely, Thanks to all, Nam Nguyen Chinese Medicine , " Julie Ormonde " <cariadanam wrote: > > Nam, if you recall we round and round awhile back about this subject and I > respectfully ask that you keep your opionions to yourself. > > Thank You > Julie > > On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 9:26 PM, dr_namnguyen58 <dr_namnguyen58wrote: > > > Dear Julie, > > To me Autism is a kind of mental disturbance, not physical problem. > > We , TCM , all try to look for phlegm, blood or Qi stagnation,heat or > > cold , deficiency or excess, we may not find a solution for it. > > I have seen a few cases of autism. Personally, I think a child had > > or has been mentally abused - some parents defended themselves, " Oh, > > that would never happen... To me, " Who knows ? " -. He or she became > > timid, scared or frightened of others including his or her own > > parents. The child loses faith in their love ones and subconsciously > > thinks that they will never help or protect him or her. This child > > then isolates himself or herself to protect his or her > > own.................... Has the child been taking care by someone > > else? By relatives? By agents? By neighbors? > > I seen the child has lost his or her love and trust. I have seen a > > child had been physically abused by his or her step ( father or mother > > ), or caretaker. And when he or she reported to his or her parents, > > they took it lightly, the child has been hurt and lost trust in them. > > I had advised the parents to spend more time and find out what a > > child most interested in... Learn and work together with him or her > > and give him interest, listen to him more, give him more love, and > > assure that your action provide his protection. As long as a child has > > gained love , interested , and trust in you, you can lead him out of > > autism. Give him confidence that he can stand up and fight for his own... > > Ex : If a child loves cartoon, watch with him, then ask him the > > character's name, and what he like about that character. If he loves > > to draw, ask him to teach us how to draw, and ask him for grading... > > Make him feel important!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NEVER TURN AWAY FROM HIM > > WHEN HE NEED US AND NEVER USE NEGATIVE COMPLIMENTS... > > > > Good luck Julie ! > > > > Nam Nguyen > > > > > > > > > > -- > Julie Ormonde, L.Ac. > www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Nam, Think before you speak. A mother appealed for help for her autistic son, and you post some nonsense about it being caused by abuse. Aside from the fact that it isn't true, how do you think this makes a mother feel to hear something like that? She is already undergoing great difficulty due to a tragedy, and then you blame her? Your apology seems sincere, but it is best to avoid offending people in the first place. There are always going to be disagreements, but you really crossed the line this time. - Bill Chinese Medicine , " dr_namnguyen58 " <dr_namnguyen58 wrote: > > Dear Julie and or with Dr. Mark Milotay, and or to all, > > Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, everybody !!!!!!!!!! > > I am sorry for my words of expression. I do not mean to teach or > offend or try to provoke anyone. If I had, there was not intention. > Again, I truly apologize for all of my actions. > I have tried to share information that I came across, by no mean > of teaching nor insulting anybody. If all messages I shared that have > offended someone, please forgive me, in my heart I had no intention. > Information is for thought and idea to work out more. It is an idea of > one's approach or experience, it should not literally be taken as a > definition........... Probably, I had used certain words or phrases > which have hurt someone, please correct me. > Dr. Mark Milotay, if you feel that my messages won't help, thanks > for your judgment. I will not post any again. But what message has > offended our fellowship, I do not get this. Please help me to correct > my behavior. Please forgive me ! And please ask the administrator to > remove my name from this group, for my misbehavior. > > Sincerely, > Thanks to all, > > Nam Nguyen Chinese Medicine , " Julie Ormonde " > <cariadanam@> wrote: > > > > Nam, if you recall we round and round awhile back about this subject > and I > > respectfully ask that you keep your opionions to yourself. > > > > Thank You > > Julie > > > > On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 9:26 PM, dr_namnguyen58 > <dr_namnguyen58@>wrote: > > > > > Dear Julie, > > > To me Autism is a kind of mental disturbance, not physical problem. > > > We , TCM , all try to look for phlegm, blood or Qi stagnation,heat or > > > cold , deficiency or excess, we may not find a solution for it. > > > I have seen a few cases of autism. Personally, I think a child had > > > or has been mentally abused - some parents defended themselves, " Oh, > > > that would never happen... To me, " Who knows ? " -. He or she became > > > timid, scared or frightened of others including his or her own > > > parents. The child loses faith in their love ones and subconsciously > > > thinks that they will never help or protect him or her. This child > > > then isolates himself or herself to protect his or her > > > own.................... Has the child been taking care by someone > > > else? By relatives? By agents? By neighbors? > > > I seen the child has lost his or her love and trust. I have seen a > > > child had been physically abused by his or her step ( father or mother > > > ), or caretaker. And when he or she reported to his or her parents, > > > they took it lightly, the child has been hurt and lost trust in them. > > > I had advised the parents to spend more time and find out what a > > > child most interested in... Learn and work together with him or her > > > and give him interest, listen to him more, give him more love, and > > > assure that your action provide his protection. As long as a child has > > > gained love , interested , and trust in you, you can lead him out of > > > autism. Give him confidence that he can stand up and fight for his > own... > > > Ex : If a child loves cartoon, watch with him, then ask him the > > > character's name, and what he like about that character. If he loves > > > to draw, ask him to teach us how to draw, and ask him for grading... > > > Make him feel important!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NEVER TURN AWAY FROM HIM > > > WHEN HE NEED US AND NEVER USE NEGATIVE COMPLIMENTS... > > > > > > Good luck Julie ! > > > > > > Nam Nguyen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Julie Ormonde, L.Ac. > > www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 yes and organic spinach leaves are heavy metal detox agents. the AFA Blue green algae or chlorella and as is cilantro. there are homeopathic detox preps,don't forget the enzyme and probiotic therapy. everything I have researched in both humans and animals screams the autism and learning disabilities are due to the pannectrotizing sclerosing effects on the brain.......was listed in Harrison's Internal Medicine Book as a post vaccinal sequelae for something about 16 years before they realized this showed the reader the known pathology. An MD, Dr.Rebecca Carley advocates the above products, homeopathy for the vaccinosis and also the glyconutrients. the glutamine receptors are affected and the damage to the developing neural tissue/brain is a risk now that few will take once enlightened to the damning effects of vaccine administration that have been hidden from not only the public but the great majority of the medical doctors who minion out their dispersal.I sincerely believe this is pathology that is a government sanctioned program and when the information is more available we will all see that there has been no greater medical assumption that has lead to more death, disease and physical breakdown than the vaccine. Mental abuse? I can hand you piles of mental problems from the metalluric synergestic action of alum and mercury in aggression, anxiety,behavioral and learning disabilites from vaccines.............this mother knowing now what I have seen in practice and in research....would NEVER have allowed myself to be so heavily vaccinated nor my children and I don't advocate vaccines for any animals.Indeed reversing this damage is of great research interest, reversing genetic damage is still a quest, we know how the damage was done but not how to reverse it, with anything, TCM or allopathic.I would advise that someone knowledgeable with the hazards in detoxing be afforded guidance of the situation, water and protection of the kidney and liver has never been more important.Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology : jasonwcom: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 03:39:45 +0000Re: Help needed for personal Autism case Just curious did he have several vaccines in a row? Chlorella algae(cracked cell wall)can help detox heavy metals from vaccines, alsocilantro juice...Some autism is like chrohn's disease creating aphlegm in the brain so herbs like chang pu and yuan zhi for the brainand herbs that sooth and cool the intestines(da huang) and boost themetabolism of toxin(spleen herbs)...Then there is progression to foodallergies(boost spleen, clean colon) and precicios puberty(tonify yinstrongly).You could try something like very mild doses of run chang wan and baizi ren wan to start.From your description of the tongue it sounds like damp in the l.j.heat in the heart and wind, cracks and skinny arms stomachinflammation heat. You could do some minimal acupuncture kids get rapid results from fewneedles: A simple treatment would be like needle rn 4(touch the needle tip tothe peritonium) or s.i lower he sea point, shen men or ear shen men,or rn14(don't go deep danger), st36 or rn12(touch peritonium, lv1(woodcontrols wind) or gb8 or 7 or gb 20(you can thread gb20 to anmen tomake it safer on a moving kid), maybe add sp3 or 6, bai hui, 4 devilsdo only a few points at a time and do it 2-3 times a week to reallyhelp him.You could do some minimal acupuncture kids get fast result: --- In Chinese Medicine , " Julie Ormonde " <cariadanam wrote:>> Some clarification on pulse - I forgot to write that it is slippery.Also> last night when I was awake in the middle of the night (yes mom needs a> treatment too, lol) it occured to me in one of those " duh " moments that> children have a higher heart rate than adults, with research thenormal hb> up to 10 yrs is 70-120, so his pulse is not rapid in terms ofchildren, I'd> be interested in what any of the peds practitioners out there thinkin terms> of TCM?> > On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Julie Ormonde <cariadanam wrote:> > > I am looking for help for my 7yo son with Autism. We have had steady> > growth since his diagnosis 4 years ago and have never used TCM. Iwould> > like some help especially since I am his mom and may misssomething and also> > I don't particularly practice pediatrics/neurological disorders. I am> > particularly looking for herbal advice.> >> >> >> > At 3 Tristan was a screaming, handflapping, nonverbal mess of achild. He> > now is a happy 7 yo mainstreamed and doing awesome, we really areclose to> > recovery. I really need help with his focus/attention, auditoryprocessing,> > and leaky gut issues/weak nutrient absorption, viral issues.> >> >> > S & S> > Normal weight/solid feels heavier than looks, short stature, tooshort for> > age> >> > Good skin tone> >> > Trunk and arm muscles hypotonic> >> > Late end of milestone marks> >> > Lost language, now has full language but has the following issues: not> > clearly communicating thoughts, starts in the middle of a thought– no lead> > in, no conversational language, all expressive issues> >> > Acute visual and hearing – 20/20 and tests out hearing machine at its> > highest levels, covers ears at times (this has steadily improved)> >> > Focus and attention deficits – probably our biggest issue,especially in a> > classroom setting> >> > Auditory processing disorder – input is much better one on one, poor> > listening skills in group/classroom situations> >> > Symptoms improve with illness and anger (suspect viral issue)> >> > Used to be aggressive (this has steadily improved)> >> > Zones out> >> > In general very passive, unmotivated, could easily slip throughthe cracks,> > quiet> >> > Extremely loving nature, definitely feels emotion> >> > Does things for purpose not just because, for example doesn'tchit-chat> > this is pointless to him.> >> > Good reading skills, poor math and art skills> >> > Very visual> >> > Balance, coordination, proprioceptive issues (3-4 year level),can't cross> > midline> >> > Can get hyper with physical exercise> >> > Play – likes other kids but doesn't really know how to start ormaintain> > play, kids just think he's shy> >> > Constipation – every other day (getting better with magnesium andyeast tx)> >> > Sleep – insomnia – will be awake for hours sitting quietly in his room> > Milk allergy, enzyme therapy has been phenomenal for this, Leaky Gut> > Had DPT, HIB, and Prevnar at 2, 4, 6 months, reacted moreseverely with> > each group w/ the last one inconsolable crying for 18 hours,fever, lump in> > leg at vax site, decided to no longer vax> >> >> >> > Tongue: slightly pale, red tip w/ notch that curls up, white goingto pale> > yellow coat in back, small cracks mid tongue, very quivery> >> > Pulse: rapid (100bpm), irregularly irregular (seems to be new), thread> >> >> >> > Bio Med Txs – see other email post about heartbeat it has supplements> > listed> >> >> >> > My thoughts: Sp qi xu w/ damp, Ht qi/blood xu w/ some signs ofheat but not> > excessive, Kid qi and essence xu, phlegm misting themind/orifices/heart> >> >> >> > This is an herbal formula I found by> > http://chineseacupuncture-wnc.com/pdfs/cm_autism_practitioner.pdf> >> >> >> > *Basic Autism Formulas*> >> > *Deficiency Shi Syndrome Syndrome*> >> > Shi Chang Pu Shi Chang Pu> >> > Yuan Zhi Yuan Zhi> >> > Tian Zhu Huang Tian Zhu Huang> >> > Qian Shi Qian Shi> >> > Long Chi Long Chi> >> > Bai Zhu Huang Lian> >> > Tian Nan Xing Rou Gui> >> > Bei Xie Suan Zao Ren> >> > Bai Zi Ren Hu Po> >> > Xi Yang Shen Dan Zhu Ye> >> > Chuan Xiong Yu Jin> >> >> >> > I was thinking the def formula with some Yu Jin, Bai He, He ShouWu and> > Dang Gui> >> >> >> > I'd love input, dosage ideas, herbal ideas, etc I am overwhelmedwith just> > moving, starting a new clinic (again!), recovering my son, andhaving 3> > small children, etc and don't want to mess this up and not muchtime to> > research.> >> >> >> > Please ask any questions,> >> >> >> > Thanks!!!> >> > Julie> >> > > > -- > Julie Ormonde, L.Ac.> www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> _______________ Suspicious message? There’s an alert for that. http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad2_1220\ 08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Hi Patricia, Julie. Autism as a result of vaccinations was and is getting attention. Do you think chelation therapy would be something to pursue in addition to the advice you already listed? e.g.; http://www.healing-arts.org/children/holmes.htm http://www.autismwebsite.com/ARI/treatment/chelationsafety.htm --- On Thu, 12/18/08, Patricia Jordan <coastalcatclinic wrote: Patricia Jordan <coastalcatclinic RE: Re: Help needed for personal Autism case " traditional chinese med " <Chinese Traditional Medicine > Thursday, December 18, 2008, 4:02 PM yes and organic spinach leaves are heavy metal detox agents. the AFA Blue green algae or chlorella and as is cilantro. there are homeopathic detox preps,don't forget the enzyme and probiotic therapy. everything I have researched in both humans and animals screams the autism and learning disabilities are due to the pannectrotizing sclerosing effects on the brain.......was listed in Harrison's Internal Medicine Book as a post vaccinal sequelae for something about 16 years before they realized this showed the reader the known pathology. An MD, Dr.Rebecca Carley advocates the above products, homeopathy for the vaccinosis and also the glyconutrients. the glutamine receptors are affected and the damage to the developing neural tissue/brain is a risk now that few will take once enlightened to the damning effects of vaccine administration that have been hidden from not only the public but the great majority of the medical doctors who minion out their dispersal.I sincerely believe this is pathology that is a government sanctioned program and when the information is more available we will all see that there has been no greater medical assumption that has lead to more death, disease and physical breakdown than the vaccine. Mental abuse? I can hand you piles of mental problems from the metalluric synergestic action of alum and mercury in aggression, anxiety,behavioral and learning disabilites from vaccines.............this mother knowing now what I have seen in practice and in research....would NEVER have allowed myself to be so heavily vaccinated nor my children and I don't advocate vaccines for any animals.Indeed reversing this damage is of great research interest, reversing genetic damage is still a quest, we know how the damage was done but not how to reverse it, with anything, TCM or allopathic.I would advise that someone knowledgeable with the hazards in detoxing be afforded guidance of the situation, water and protection of the kidney and liver has never been more important.Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology : jasonwcom: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 03:39:45 +0000Re: Help needed for personal Autism case Just curious did he have several vaccines in a row? Chlorella algae(cracked cell wall)can help detox heavy metals from vaccines, alsocilantro juice...Some autism is like chrohn's disease creating aphlegm in the brain so herbs like chang pu and yuan zhi for the brainand herbs that sooth and cool the intestines(da huang) and boost themetabolism of toxin(spleen herbs)...Then there is progression to foodallergies(boost spleen, clean colon) and precicios puberty(tonify yinstrongly).You could try something like very mild doses of run chang wan and baizi ren wan to start.From your description of the tongue it sounds like damp in the l.j.heat in the heart and wind, cracks and skinny arms stomachinflammation heat. You could do some minimal acupuncture kids get rapid results from fewneedles: A simple treatment would be like needle rn 4(touch the needle tip tothe peritonium) or s.i lower he sea point, shen men or ear shen men,or rn14(don't go deep danger), st36 or rn12(touch peritonium, lv1(woodcontrols wind) or gb8 or 7 or gb 20(you can thread gb20 to anmen tomake it safer on a moving kid), maybe add sp3 or 6, bai hui, 4 devilsdo only a few points at a time and do it 2-3 times a week to reallyhelp him.You could do some minimal acupuncture kids get fast result: --- In Chinese Medicine , " Julie Ormonde " <cariadanam wrote:>> Some clarification on pulse - I forgot to write that it is slippery.Also> last night when I was awake in the middle of the night (yes mom needs a> treatment too, lol) it occured to me in one of those " duh " moments that> children have a higher heart rate than adults, with research thenormal hb> up to 10 yrs is 70-120, so his pulse is not rapid in terms ofchildren, I'd> be interested in what any of the peds practitioners out there thinkin terms> of TCM?> > On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Julie Ormonde <cariadanam wrote:> > > I am looking for help for my 7yo son with Autism. We have had steady> > growth since his diagnosis 4 years ago and have never used TCM. Iwould> > like some help especially since I am his mom and may misssomething and also> > I don't particularly practice pediatrics/neurological disorders. I am> > particularly looking for herbal advice.> >> >> >> > At 3 Tristan was a screaming, handflapping, nonverbal mess of achild. He> > now is a happy 7 yo mainstreamed and doing awesome, we really areclose to> > recovery. I really need help with his focus/attention, auditoryprocessing,> > and leaky gut issues/weak nutrient absorption, viral issues.> >> >> > S & S> > Normal weight/solid feels heavier than looks, short stature, tooshort for> > age> >> > Good skin tone> >> > Trunk and arm muscles hypotonic> >> > Late end of milestone marks> >> > Lost language, now has full language but has the following issues: not> > clearly communicating thoughts, starts in the middle of a thought– no lead> > in, no conversational language, all expressive issues> >> > Acute visual and hearing – 20/20 and tests out hearing machine at its> > highest levels, covers ears at times (this has steadily improved)> >> > Focus and attention deficits – probably our biggest issue,especially in a> > classroom setting> >> > Auditory processing disorder – input is much better one on one, poor> > listening skills in group/classroom situations> >> > Symptoms improve with illness and anger (suspect viral issue)> >> > Used to be aggressive (this has steadily improved)> >> > Zones out> >> > In general very passive, unmotivated, could easily slip throughthe cracks,> > quiet> >> > Extremely loving nature, definitely feels emotion> >> > Does things for purpose not just because, for example doesn'tchit-chat> > this is pointless to him.> >> > Good reading skills, poor math and art skills> >> > Very visual> >> > Balance, coordination, proprioceptive issues (3-4 year level),can't cross> > midline> >> > Can get hyper with physical exercise> >> > Play – likes other kids but doesn't really know how to start ormaintain> > play, kids just think he's shy> >> > Constipation – every other day (getting better with magnesium andyeast tx)> >> > Sleep – insomnia – will be awake for hours sitting quietly in his room> > Milk allergy, enzyme therapy has been phenomenal for this, Leaky Gut> > Had DPT, HIB, and Prevnar at 2, 4, 6 months, reacted moreseverely with> > each group w/ the last one inconsolable crying for 18 hours,fever, lump in> > leg at vax site, decided to no longer vax> >> >> >> > Tongue: slightly pale, red tip w/ notch that curls up, white goingto pale> > yellow coat in back, small cracks mid tongue, very quivery> >> > Pulse: rapid (100bpm), irregularly irregular (seems to be new), thread> >> >> >> > Bio Med Txs – see other email post about heartbeat it has supplements> > listed> >> >> >> > My thoughts: Sp qi xu w/ damp, Ht qi/blood xu w/ some signs ofheat but not> > excessive, Kid qi and essence xu, phlegm misting themind/orifices/heart> >> >> >> > This is an herbal formula I found by> > http://chineseacupuncture-wnc.com/pdfs/cm_autism_practitioner.pdf> >> >> >> > *Basic Autism Formulas*> >> > *Deficiency Shi Syndrome Syndrome*> >> > Shi Chang Pu Shi Chang Pu> >> > Yuan Zhi Yuan Zhi> >> > Tian Zhu Huang Tian Zhu Huang> >> > Qian Shi Qian Shi> >> > Long Chi Long Chi> >> > Bai Zhu Huang Lian> >> > Tian Nan Xing Rou Gui> >> > Bei Xie Suan Zao Ren> >> > Bai Zi Ren Hu Po> >> > Xi Yang Shen Dan Zhu Ye> >> > Chuan Xiong Yu Jin> >> >> >> > I was thinking the def formula with some Yu Jin, Bai He, He ShouWu and> > Dang Gui> >> >> >> > I'd love input, dosage ideas, herbal ideas, etc I am overwhelmedwith just> > moving, starting a new clinic (again!), recovering my son, andhaving 3> > small children, etc and don't want to mess this up and not muchtime to> > research.> >> >> >> > Please ask any questions,> >> >> >> > Thanks!!!> >> > Julie> >> > > > -- > Julie Ormonde, L.Ac.> www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Hi Patricia, Julie. Autism as a result of vaccinations was and is getting attention. Do you think chelation therapy would be something to pursue in addition to the advice you already listed? e.g.; http://www.healing-arts.org/children/holmes.htm http://www.autismwebsite.com/ARI/treatment/chelationsafety.htm --- On Thu, 12/18/08, Patricia Jordan <coastalcatclinic wrote: Patricia Jordan <coastalcatclinic RE: Re: Help needed for personal Autism case " traditional chinese med " <Chinese Traditional Medicine > Thursday, December 18, 2008, 4:02 PM yes and organic spinach leaves are heavy metal detox agents. the AFA Blue green algae or chlorella and as is cilantro. there are homeopathic detox preps,don't forget the enzyme and probiotic therapy. everything I have researched in both humans and animals screams the autism and learning disabilities are due to the pannectrotizing sclerosing effects on the brain.......was listed in Harrison's Internal Medicine Book as a post vaccinal sequelae for something about 16 years before they realized this showed the reader the known pathology. An MD, Dr.Rebecca Carley advocates the above products, homeopathy for the vaccinosis and also the glyconutrients. the glutamine receptors are affected and the damage to the developing neural tissue/brain is a risk now that few will take once enlightened to the damning effects of vaccine administration that have been hidden from not only the public but the great majority of the medical doctors who minion out their dispersal.I sincerely believe this is pathology that is a government sanctioned program and when the information is more available we will all see that there has been no greater medical assumption that has lead to more death, disease and physical breakdown than the vaccine. Mental abuse? I can hand you piles of mental problems from the metalluric synergestic action of alum and mercury in aggression, anxiety,behavioral and learning disabilites from vaccines.............this mother knowing now what I have seen in practice and in research....would NEVER have allowed myself to be so heavily vaccinated nor my children and I don't advocate vaccines for any animals.Indeed reversing this damage is of great research interest, reversing genetic damage is still a quest, we know how the damage was done but not how to reverse it, with anything, TCM or allopathic.I would advise that someone knowledgeable with the hazards in detoxing be afforded guidance of the situation, water and protection of the kidney and liver has never been more important.Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology : jasonwcom: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 03:39:45 +0000Re: Help needed for personal Autism case Just curious did he have several vaccines in a row? Chlorella algae(cracked cell wall)can help detox heavy metals from vaccines, alsocilantro juice...Some autism is like chrohn's disease creating aphlegm in the brain so herbs like chang pu and yuan zhi for the brainand herbs that sooth and cool the intestines(da huang) and boost themetabolism of toxin(spleen herbs)...Then there is progression to foodallergies(boost spleen, clean colon) and precicios puberty(tonify yinstrongly).You could try something like very mild doses of run chang wan and baizi ren wan to start.From your description of the tongue it sounds like damp in the l.j.heat in the heart and wind, cracks and skinny arms stomachinflammation heat. You could do some minimal acupuncture kids get rapid results from fewneedles: A simple treatment would be like needle rn 4(touch the needle tip tothe peritonium) or s.i lower he sea point, shen men or ear shen men,or rn14(don't go deep danger), st36 or rn12(touch peritonium, lv1(woodcontrols wind) or gb8 or 7 or gb 20(you can thread gb20 to anmen tomake it safer on a moving kid), maybe add sp3 or 6, bai hui, 4 devilsdo only a few points at a time and do it 2-3 times a week to reallyhelp him.You could do some minimal acupuncture kids get fast result: --- In Chinese Medicine , " Julie Ormonde " <cariadanam wrote:>> Some clarification on pulse - I forgot to write that it is slippery.Also> last night when I was awake in the middle of the night (yes mom needs a> treatment too, lol) it occured to me in one of those " duh " moments that> children have a higher heart rate than adults, with research thenormal hb> up to 10 yrs is 70-120, so his pulse is not rapid in terms ofchildren, I'd> be interested in what any of the peds practitioners out there thinkin terms> of TCM?> > On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Julie Ormonde <cariadanam wrote:> > > I am looking for help for my 7yo son with Autism. We have had steady> > growth since his diagnosis 4 years ago and have never used TCM. Iwould> > like some help especially since I am his mom and may misssomething and also> > I don't particularly practice pediatrics/neurological disorders. I am> > particularly looking for herbal advice.> >> >> >> > At 3 Tristan was a screaming, handflapping, nonverbal mess of achild. He> > now is a happy 7 yo mainstreamed and doing awesome, we really areclose to> > recovery. I really need help with his focus/attention, auditoryprocessing,> > and leaky gut issues/weak nutrient absorption, viral issues.> >> >> > S & S> > Normal weight/solid feels heavier than looks, short stature, tooshort for> > age> >> > Good skin tone> >> > Trunk and arm muscles hypotonic> >> > Late end of milestone marks> >> > Lost language, now has full language but has the following issues: not> > clearly communicating thoughts, starts in the middle of a thought– no lead> > in, no conversational language, all expressive issues> >> > Acute visual and hearing – 20/20 and tests out hearing machine at its> > highest levels, covers ears at times (this has steadily improved)> >> > Focus and attention deficits – probably our biggest issue,especially in a> > classroom setting> >> > Auditory processing disorder – input is much better one on one, poor> > listening skills in group/classroom situations> >> > Symptoms improve with illness and anger (suspect viral issue)> >> > Used to be aggressive (this has steadily improved)> >> > Zones out> >> > In general very passive, unmotivated, could easily slip throughthe cracks,> > quiet> >> > Extremely loving nature, definitely feels emotion> >> > Does things for purpose not just because, for example doesn'tchit-chat> > this is pointless to him.> >> > Good reading skills, poor math and art skills> >> > Very visual> >> > Balance, coordination, proprioceptive issues (3-4 year level),can't cross> > midline> >> > Can get hyper with physical exercise> >> > Play – likes other kids but doesn't really know how to start ormaintain> > play, kids just think he's shy> >> > Constipation – every other day (getting better with magnesium andyeast tx)> >> > Sleep – insomnia – will be awake for hours sitting quietly in his room> > Milk allergy, enzyme therapy has been phenomenal for this, Leaky Gut> > Had DPT, HIB, and Prevnar at 2, 4, 6 months, reacted moreseverely with> > each group w/ the last one inconsolable crying for 18 hours,fever, lump in> > leg at vax site, decided to no longer vax> >> >> >> > Tongue: slightly pale, red tip w/ notch that curls up, white goingto pale> > yellow coat in back, small cracks mid tongue, very quivery> >> > Pulse: rapid (100bpm), irregularly irregular (seems to be new), thread> >> >> >> > Bio Med Txs – see other email post about heartbeat it has supplements> > listed> >> >> >> > My thoughts: Sp qi xu w/ damp, Ht qi/blood xu w/ some signs ofheat but not> > excessive, Kid qi and essence xu, phlegm misting themind/orifices/heart> >> >> >> > This is an herbal formula I found by> > http://chineseacupuncture-wnc.com/pdfs/cm_autism_practitioner.pdf> >> >> >> > *Basic Autism Formulas*> >> > *Deficiency Shi Syndrome Syndrome*> >> > Shi Chang Pu Shi Chang Pu> >> > Yuan Zhi Yuan Zhi> >> > Tian Zhu Huang Tian Zhu Huang> >> > Qian Shi Qian Shi> >> > Long Chi Long Chi> >> > Bai Zhu Huang Lian> >> > Tian Nan Xing Rou Gui> >> > Bei Xie Suan Zao Ren> >> > Bai Zi Ren Hu Po> >> > Xi Yang Shen Dan Zhu Ye> >> > Chuan Xiong Yu Jin> >> >> >> > I was thinking the def formula with some Yu Jin, Bai He, He ShouWu and> > Dang Gui> >> >> >> > I'd love input, dosage ideas, herbal ideas, etc I am overwhelmedwith just> > moving, starting a new clinic (again!), recovering my son, andhaving 3> > small children, etc and don't want to mess this up and not muchtime to> > research.> >> >> >> > Please ask any questions,> >> >> >> > Thanks!!!> >> > Julie> >> > > > -- > Julie Ormonde, L.Ac.> www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2008 Report Share Posted December 18, 2008 Jason he was vaccinated with the vaccines I listed before at 2, 4, and 6 mos. This was about half of what was actually recommended. I felt physcially ill over the decision and actually had to leave the room when he got them, it was the biggest mistake I ever ever ever made, ALWAYS follow your gut instinct, mine was screaming and I ignored it because western medical literature scares you into vaccines. But then again maybe none of this has to do with neurotoxins or genetics or the enviroment or weak immune systems and really all of us hundreds of thousands of parents are just not loving our children and/or abusing them and while we are abusing them we are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on therapies, losing our homes losing ourselves trying to recover them, but I digress... I am curious as to why you bring up wind, he doesn't have nay tremors or seizures, while wind can be an issue with these kids I am not seeing it in mine? I was thinking of a combo of the following formulas: zhi gan cao tang (but I have figured out it seems to the GSE that was affecting his heartbeat so maybe this isn't as needed although I think he still has a predisposition to irreg heartbeat and it certainly makes sense that he would), yang xin tang, and a smaller percentage of wen dan tang, I think the heat needs addressed but I don't know that I think it is the root. I'd really *really* like input, I know you herbal gurus are out there, can you weigh in please I am trying to stick to formulas without single herb additions just for my ease of use, using combos would be easier. Julie On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 7:39 PM, jasonwcom <jasonwcom wrote: > Just curious did he have several vaccines in a row? Chlorella algae > (cracked cell wall)can help detox heavy metals from vaccines, also > cilantro juice...Some autism is like chrohn's disease creating a > phlegm in the brain so herbs like chang pu and yuan zhi for the brain > and herbs that sooth and cool the intestines(da huang) and boost the > metabolism of toxin(spleen herbs)...Then there is progression to food > allergies(boost spleen, clean colon) and precicios puberty(tonify yin > strongly). > > You could try something like very mild doses of run chang wan and bai > zi ren wan to start. > > From your description of the tongue it sounds like damp in the l.j. > heat in the heart and wind, cracks and skinny arms stomach > inflammation heat. > You could do some minimal acupuncture kids get rapid results from few > needles: > A simple treatment would be like needle rn 4(touch the needle tip to > the peritonium) or s.i lower he sea point, shen men or ear shen men, > or rn14(don't go deep danger), st36 or rn12(touch peritonium, lv1(wood > controls wind) or gb8 or 7 or gb 20(you can thread gb20 to anmen to > make it safer on a moving kid), maybe add sp3 or 6, bai hui, 4 devils > do only a few points at a time and do it 2-3 times a week to really > help him. > > You could do some minimal acupuncture kids get fast result: > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > " Julie Ormonde " > <cariadanam wrote: > > > > Some clarification on pulse - I forgot to write that it is slippery. > Also > > last night when I was awake in the middle of the night (yes mom needs a > > treatment too, lol) it occured to me in one of those " duh " moments that > > children have a higher heart rate than adults, with research the > normal hb > > up to 10 yrs is 70-120, so his pulse is not rapid in terms of > children, I'd > > be interested in what any of the peds practitioners out there think > in terms > > of TCM? > > > > On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Julie Ormonde <cariadanam wrote: > > > > > I am looking for help for my 7yo son with Autism. We have had steady > > > growth since his diagnosis 4 years ago and have never used TCM. I > would > > > like some help especially since I am his mom and may miss > something and also > > > I don't particularly practice pediatrics/neurological disorders. I am > > > particularly looking for herbal advice. > > > > > > > > > > > > At 3 Tristan was a screaming, handflapping, nonverbal mess of a > child. He > > > now is a happy 7 yo mainstreamed and doing awesome, we really are > close to > > > recovery. I really need help with his focus/attention, auditory > processing, > > > and leaky gut issues/weak nutrient absorption, viral issues. > > > > > > > > > S & S > > > Normal weight/solid feels heavier than looks, short stature, too > short for > > > age > > > > > > Good skin tone > > > > > > Trunk and arm muscles hypotonic > > > > > > Late end of milestone marks > > > > > > Lost language, now has full language but has the following issues: not > > > clearly communicating thoughts, starts in the middle of a thought > – no lead > > > in, no conversational language, all expressive issues > > > > > > Acute visual and hearing – 20/20 and tests out hearing machine at its > > > highest levels, covers ears at times (this has steadily improved) > > > > > > Focus and attention deficits – probably our biggest issue, > especially in a > > > classroom setting > > > > > > Auditory processing disorder – input is much better one on one, poor > > > listening skills in group/classroom situations > > > > > > Symptoms improve with illness and anger (suspect viral issue) > > > > > > Used to be aggressive (this has steadily improved) > > > > > > Zones out > > > > > > In general very passive, unmotivated, could easily slip through > the cracks, > > > quiet > > > > > > Extremely loving nature, definitely feels emotion > > > > > > Does things for purpose not just because, for example doesn't > chit-chat > > > this is pointless to him. > > > > > > Good reading skills, poor math and art skills > > > > > > Very visual > > > > > > Balance, coordination, proprioceptive issues (3-4 year level), > can't cross > > > midline > > > > > > Can get hyper with physical exercise > > > > > > Play – likes other kids but doesn't really know how to start or > maintain > > > play, kids just think he's shy > > > > > > Constipation – every other day (getting better with magnesium and > yeast tx) > > > > > > Sleep – insomnia – will be awake for hours sitting quietly in his room > > > Milk allergy, enzyme therapy has been phenomenal for this, Leaky Gut > > > Had DPT, HIB, and Prevnar at 2, 4, 6 months, reacted more > severely with > > > each group w/ the last one inconsolable crying for 18 hours, > fever, lump in > > > leg at vax site, decided to no longer vax > > > > > > > > > > > > Tongue: slightly pale, red tip w/ notch that curls up, white going > to pale > > > yellow coat in back, small cracks mid tongue, very quivery > > > > > > Pulse: rapid (100bpm), irregularly irregular (seems to be new), thread > > > > > > > > > > > > Bio Med Txs – see other email post about heartbeat it has supplements > > > listed > > > > > > > > > > > > My thoughts: Sp qi xu w/ damp, Ht qi/blood xu w/ some signs of > heat but not > > > excessive, Kid qi and essence xu, phlegm misting the > mind/orifices/heart > > > > > > > > > > > > This is an herbal formula I found by > > > http://chineseacupuncture-wnc.com/pdfs/cm_autism_practitioner.pdf > > > > > > > > > > > > *Basic Autism Formulas* > > > > > > *Deficiency Shi Syndrome Syndrome* > > > > > > Shi Chang Pu Shi Chang Pu > > > > > > Yuan Zhi Yuan Zhi > > > > > > Tian Zhu Huang Tian Zhu Huang > > > > > > Qian Shi Qian Shi > > > > > > Long Chi Long Chi > > > > > > Bai Zhu Huang Lian > > > > > > Tian Nan Xing Rou Gui > > > > > > Bei Xie Suan Zao Ren > > > > > > Bai Zi Ren Hu Po > > > > > > Xi Yang Shen Dan Zhu Ye > > > > > > Chuan Xiong Yu Jin > > > > > > > > > > > > I was thinking the def formula with some Yu Jin, Bai He, He Shou > Wu and > > > Dang Gui > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd love input, dosage ideas, herbal ideas, etc I am overwhelmed > with just > > > moving, starting a new clinic (again!), recovering my son, and > having 3 > > > small children, etc and don't want to mess this up and not much > time to > > > research. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please ask any questions, > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks!!! > > > > > > Julie > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Julie Ormonde, L.Ac. > > www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com<http://www.auburncommunityacupuncture.com/> > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 1:02 PM, Patricia Jordan < coastalcatclinic wrote: > > yes and organic spinach leaves are heavy metal detox agents. the AFA Blue > green algae or chlorella and as is cilantro. there are homeopathic detox > preps,don't forget the enzyme and probiotic therapy. everything I have > researched in both humans and animals screams the autism and learning > disabilities are due to the pannectrotizing sclerosing effects on the > brain.......was listed in Harrison's Internal Medicine Book as a post > vaccinal sequelae for something about 16 years before they realized this > showed the reader the known pathology. An MD, Dr.Rebecca Carley advocates > the above products, homeopathy for the vaccinosis and also the > glyconutrients. the glutamine receptors are affected and the damage to the > developing neural tissue/brain is a risk now that few will take once > enlightened to the damning effects of vaccine administration that have been > hidden from not only the public but the great majority of the medical > doctors who minion out their dispersal.I sincerely believe this is pathology > that is a government sanctioned program and when the information is more > available we will all see that there has been no greater medical assumption > that has lead to more death, disease and physical breakdown than the > vaccine. > Mental abuse? I can hand you piles of mental problems from the metalluric > synergestic action of alum and mercury in aggression, anxiety,behavioral and > learning disabilites from vaccines.............this mother knowing now what > I have seen in practice and in research....would NEVER have allowed myself > to be so heavily vaccinated nor my children and I don't advocate vaccines > for any animals.Indeed reversing this damage is of great research interest, > reversing genetic damage is still a quest, we know how the damage was done > but not how to reverse it, with anything, TCM or allopathic.I would advise > that someone knowledgeable with the hazards in detoxing be afforded guidance > of the situation, water and protection of the kidney and liver has never > been more important.Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology > > > > : > jasonwcom: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 03:39:45 +0000Re: > Help needed for personal Autism case > > > > Just curious did he have several vaccines in a row? Chlorella algae(cracked > cell wall)can help detox heavy metals from vaccines, alsocilantro > juice...Some autism is like chrohn's disease creating aphlegm in the brain > so herbs like chang pu and yuan zhi for the brainand herbs that sooth and > cool the intestines(da huang) and boost themetabolism of toxin(spleen > herbs)...Then there is progression to foodallergies(boost spleen, clean > colon) and precicios puberty(tonify yinstrongly).You could try something > like very mild doses of run chang wan and baizi ren wan to start.From your > description of the tongue it sounds like damp in the l.j.heat in the heart > and wind, cracks and skinny arms stomachinflammation heat. You could do some > minimal acupuncture kids get rapid results from fewneedles: A simple > treatment would be like needle rn 4(touch the needle tip tothe peritonium) > or s.i lower he sea point, shen men or ear shen men,or rn14(don't go deep > danger), st36 or rn12(touch peritonium, lv1(woodcontrols wind) or gb8 or 7 > or gb 20(you can thread gb20 to anmen tomake it safer on a moving kid), > maybe add sp3 or 6, bai hui, 4 devilsdo only a few points at a time and do > it 2-3 times a week to reallyhelp him.You could do some minimal acupuncture > kids get fast result: Chinese Medicine , > " Julie Ormonde " <cariadanam wrote:>> Some clarification on pulse - I > forgot to write that it is slippery.Also> last night when I was awake in the > middle of the night (yes mom needs a> treatment too, lol) it occured to me > in one of those " duh " moments that> children have a higher heart rate than > adults, with research thenormal hb> up to 10 yrs is 70-120, so his pulse is > not rapid in terms ofchildren, I'd> be interested in what any of the peds > practitioners out there thinkin terms> of TCM?> > On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at > 4:33 PM, Julie Ormonde <cariadanam wrote:> > > I am looking for help > for my 7yo son with Autism. We have had steady> > growth since his diagnosis > 4 years ago and have never used TCM. Iwould> > like some help especially > since I am his mom and may misssomething and also> > I don't particularly > practice pediatrics/neurological disorders. I am> > particularly looking for > herbal advice.> >> >> >> > At 3 Tristan was a screaming, handflapping, > nonverbal mess of achild. He> > now is a happy 7 yo mainstreamed and doing > awesome, we really areclose to> > recovery. I really need help with his > focus/attention, auditoryprocessing,> > and leaky gut issues/weak nutrient > absorption, viral issues.> >> >> > S & S> > Normal weight/solid feels heavier > than looks, short stature, tooshort for> > age> >> > Good skin tone> >> > > Trunk and arm muscles hypotonic> >> > Late end of milestone marks> >> > Lost > language, now has full language but has the following issues: not> > clearly > communicating thoughts, starts in the middle of a thought– no lead> > in, no > conversational language, all expressive issues> >> > Acute visual and > hearing – 20/20 and tests out hearing machine at its> > highest levels, > covers ears at times (this has steadily improved)> >> > Focus and attention > deficits – probably our biggest issue,especially in a> > classroom setting> > >> > Auditory processing disorder – input is much better one on one, poor> > > listening skills in group/classroom situations> >> > Symptoms improve with > illness and anger (suspect viral issue)> >> > Used to be aggressive (this > has steadily improved)> >> > Zones out> >> > In general very passive, > unmotivated, could easily slip throughthe cracks,> > quiet> >> > Extremely > loving nature, definitely feels emotion> >> > Does things for purpose not > just because, for example doesn'tchit-chat> > this is pointless to him.> >> > > Good reading skills, poor math and art skills> >> > Very visual> >> > > Balance, coordination, proprioceptive issues (3-4 year level),can't cross> > > midline> >> > Can get hyper with physical exercise> >> > Play – likes other > kids but doesn't really know how to start ormaintain> > play, kids just > think he's shy> >> > Constipation – every other day (getting better with > magnesium andyeast tx)> >> > Sleep – insomnia – will be awake for hours > sitting quietly in his room> > Milk allergy, enzyme therapy has been > phenomenal for this, Leaky Gut> > Had DPT, HIB, and Prevnar at 2, 4, 6 > months, reacted moreseverely with> > each group w/ the last one inconsolable > crying for 18 hours,fever, lump in> > leg at vax site, decided to no longer > vax> >> >> >> > Tongue: slightly pale, red tip w/ notch that curls up, white > goingto pale> > yellow coat in back, small cracks mid tongue, very quivery> > >> > Pulse: rapid (100bpm), irregularly irregular (seems to be new), thread> > >> >> >> > Bio Med Txs – see other email post about heartbeat it has > supplements> > listed> >> >> >> > My thoughts: Sp qi xu w/ damp, Ht qi/blood > xu w/ some signs ofheat but not> > excessive, Kid qi and essence xu, phlegm > misting themind/orifices/heart> >> >> >> > This is an herbal formula I found > by> > http://chineseacupuncture-wnc.com/pdfs/cm_autism_practitioner.pdf> > >> >> >> > *Basic Autism Formulas*> >> > *Deficiency Shi Syndrome Syndrome*> > >> > Shi Chang Pu Shi Chang Pu> >> > Yuan Zhi Yuan Zhi> >> > Tian Zhu Huang > Tian Zhu Huang> >> > Qian Shi Qian Shi> >> > Long Chi Long Chi> >> > Bai Zhu > Huang Lian> >> > Tian Nan Xing Rou Gui> >> > Bei Xie Suan Zao Ren> >> > Bai > Zi Ren Hu Po> >> > Xi Yang Shen Dan Zhu Ye> >> > Chuan Xiong Yu Jin> >> >> > >> > I was thinking the def formula with some Yu Jin, Bai He, He ShouWu and> > > Dang Gui> >> >> >> > I'd love input, dosage ideas, herbal ideas, etc I am > overwhelmedwith just> > moving, starting a new clinic (again!), recovering > my son, andhaving 3> > small children, etc and don't want to mess this up > and not muchtime to> > research.> >> >> >> > Please ask any questions,> >> > >> >> > Thanks!!!> >> > Julie> >> > > > -- > Julie Ormonde, L.Ac.> > www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com<http://www.auburncommunityacupuncture.com/>> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 Hi All: " neurotoxins or genetics or the enviroment or weak immune systems and really all of us hundreds of thousands of parents are just not loving our children and/or abusing them and while we are abusing them we are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on therapies, losing our homes losing ourselves trying to recover them, but I digress... " I Ching Hexagram 4. Meng In punishing folly It does not further one To commit transgressions. The only thing that furthers Is to prevent transgressions. I don't believe ad hominem attacks, defamation or libel are appropriate in this forum - maybe elsewhere. This forum is ostensibly about the healing of the human heart. The man apologised PROFUSELY, and he clearly did not intend harm. Please let it go. Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 I did have my say and I have let it go, now maybe someone could actually try to help me HERBALLY? On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: > Hi All: > > " neurotoxins or genetics or the enviroment or weak immune > systems and really all of us hundreds of thousands of parents are just not > loving our children and/or abusing them and while we are abusing them we > are > spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on therapies, losing our homes > losing ourselves trying to recover them, but I digress... " > > I Ching Hexagram 4. Meng > In punishing folly > It does not further one > To commit transgressions. > The only thing that furthers > Is to prevent transgressions. > > I don't believe ad hominem attacks, defamation or libel are appropriate in > this forum - maybe elsewhere. This forum is ostensibly about the healing of > the human heart. The man apologised PROFUSELY, and he clearly did not intend > harm. Please let it go. > > Hugo > > ________________________________ > Hugo Ramiro > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 Send e-mail anywhere. No map, no compass. http://windowslive.com/oneline/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_anywhere_12\ 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 After someone's response about Nam's apology I decided to come check out and it seems a few responses didn't make it to my email, one of which was Nam's apology and another which was the thought of chelation. Nam, thank you for your apology, I just ask that you really take some time to look at the causes of autism and how it is affecting lives before you make such an assumption, especially if you are actually treating any of these cases. I hope your apology was more than just an apology but an understanding of why it would have been poorly received. I'd be happy to share a cup of tea and invite you to spend some time with my son and I, I think you'd be quite delighted by him. I am ready to move on from it. Again thank you. As for those of you who were upset at my other response, one I had not seen Nam's response and two I'd like to see you get kicked in the gut and stand right up and smile at the person. Maybe you have evolved more than me. As for the idea of chelation - I have mildly considered it but I still have some biomedical avenues to go down and Chinese formulas to try. Chelation is not something to do lightly and it will probably be my last option. I honestly don't think we will even need to. But thank you for the thought. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 Hi Julie, a comment, and some potential help: " I'd like to see you get kicked in the gut and stand right up and smile at the person. Maybe you have evolved more than me. " Many times, I do my best, and practice makes perfect, hopefully. Generally, reading his case, I have many questions, but some basics may be useful: Basic A: Follow CM dietetics, i.e. low glycemic diet, cooked food mostly, no cold foods in the morning, no milk or milk-like substances etc (pls ask if unclear) Basic B: *What goes in must come out* Your child must be kept, as much as possible, in CALM, NON-STIMULATING environments. The more stimulation goes in and bangs through his energy system the more energy will find an outlet. Not only that but he will develop habitual pattern responses that will develop a life of their own, and become AGGRAVATED in a calm environment. This point is ESSENTIAL. For me, one may get lost in the consideration of all the branches, and so I would focus on the roots and treat those first and foremost. The Roots must be: 1. Digestive insufficiency 2. Pre-Heaven weakness 3. Accumulation of Phlegm 4. Disturbance of the Heart Mind 1. Treat with mild diet as described above and pediatric formula for digestive insufficiency / food stagnation / phlegm retention: Xiao Shi Pian (å°å„¿æ¶ˆé£Ÿç‰‡) Find at http://tinyurl.com/5xlwlg Formula is composed of Ji Nei Jin, Shan Zha, Chen Pi, Mai Ya, Bing Lang 2. For now step one will take care of this. 3. Step 1 will take care of this. 4. Familiarise yourself with Dian syndrome (it sounds like he used to have Kuang syndrome, he has now bounced to the opposite): A Yin pattern, mostly from emptiness. The main symptoms are: depression, mutism, fear, insecurity, anxiousness, memory deficit, depressed mood, quietness, deep and thready pulse, pale tongue, face without light, dull expression. There may also be fullness within emptiness: yin liver, empty kidneys and floating yang: inconsistent thought patterns, mental confusion, emotional instability, tongue with red edhes or tip, thready, rapid, wiry pulse. Thick accumulations of Phlegm blocking the Du Mai: dullness, mutism, stiffness of the limbs, psychological retreat, white and greasy tongue coating, tense and full pulse. Overall, my strategy with autism kids who present with something like Dian syndrome is what I have outlined above. I ask parents to do two things: 1. Focus almost exclusively on the roots, and try to not get hooked by the constantly variable and changing branch patterns, and 2. Keep up with a simple, strategic, root treatment aimed at cleaning up the fundamental mess ( " step 1 " ). This means, partially, that all treatments should be eliminated unless absolutely regarded as essential. *Every treatment has an effect* and therefore has the potential to knock the (sensitive) patient off track. Once this has been kept up for several months, many things will settle down and a clearer view of the root disharmonies will present themselves. Reassess and progress as warranted. Of course, if branch disharmonies are clearly understood, they may be treated at the same time too. My basic rules are listed under Basic A and B. Hope this helps, feel free to ask questions, Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org ________________________________ cariadanam <cariadanam Chinese Medicine Friday, 19 December, 2008 14:12:35 Re: Help needed for personal Autism case After someone's response about Nam's apology I decided to come check out and it seems a few responses didn't make it to my email, one of which was Nam's apology and another which was the thought of chelation. Nam, thank you for your apology, I just ask that you really take some time to look at the causes of autism and how it is affecting lives before you make such an assumption, especially if you are actually treating any of these cases. I hope your apology was more than just an apology but an understanding of why it would have been poorly received. I'd be happy to share a cup of tea and invite you to spend some time with my son and I, I think you'd be quite delighted by him. I am ready to move on from it. Again thank you. As for those of you who were upset at my other response, one I had not seen Nam's response and two I'd like to see you get kicked in the gut and stand right up and smile at the person. Maybe you have evolved more than me. As for the idea of chelation - I have mildly considered it but I still have some biomedical avenues to go down and Chinese formulas to try. Chelation is not something to do lightly and it will probably be my last option. I honestly don't think we will even need to. But thank you for the thought. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 I'll repeat Try bai zi ren wan and run chang wan together at a mild dose Chinese Medicine , " Julie Ormonde " <cariadanam wrote: > > I did have my say and I have let it go, now maybe someone could actually try > to help me HERBALLY? > > On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: > > > Hi All: > > > > " neurotoxins or genetics or the enviroment or weak immune > > systems and really all of us hundreds of thousands of parents are just not > > loving our children and/or abusing them and while we are abusing them we > > are > > spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on therapies, losing our homes > > losing ourselves trying to recover them, but I digress... " > > > > I Ching Hexagram 4. Meng > > In punishing folly > > It does not further one > > To commit transgressions. > > The only thing that furthers > > Is to prevent transgressions. > > > > I don't believe ad hominem attacks, defamation or libel are appropriate in > > this forum - maybe elsewhere. This forum is ostensibly about the healing of > > the human heart. The man apologised PROFUSELY, and he clearly did not intend > > harm. Please let it go. > > > > Hugo > > > > ________________________________ > > Hugo Ramiro > > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > > http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 Sorry " Bai Zi Yang Xin Wan " and run chang wan together is what I meant try 1/4 -1/3 of the adult dose on the bottle If you are an acupuncturist you should give your son acupuncture too, better he than perfect strangers that come to your office he's your own flesh and blood Chinese Medicine , " jasonwcom " <jasonwcom wrote: > > I'll repeat > > Try bai zi ren wan and run chang wan together at a mild dose > > > > Chinese Medicine , " Julie Ormonde " > <cariadanam@> wrote: > > > > I did have my say and I have let it go, now maybe someone could > actually try > > to help me HERBALLY? > > > > On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor@> wrote: > > > > > Hi All: > > > > > > " neurotoxins or genetics or the enviroment or weak immune > > > systems and really all of us hundreds of thousands of parents are > just not > > > loving our children and/or abusing them and while we are abusing > them we > > > are > > > spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on therapies, losing our > homes > > > losing ourselves trying to recover them, but I digress... " > > > > > > I Ching Hexagram 4. Meng > > > In punishing folly > > > It does not further one > > > To commit transgressions. > > > The only thing that furthers > > > Is to prevent transgressions. > > > > > > I don't believe ad hominem attacks, defamation or libel are > appropriate in > > > this forum - maybe elsewhere. This forum is ostensibly about the > healing of > > > the human heart. The man apologised PROFUSELY, and he clearly did > not intend > > > harm. Please let it go. > > > > > > Hugo > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > Hugo Ramiro > > > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > > > http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 Hi Julie, I am impressed with the detail and clarity of your information about your son. I have a few questions for you and then I'd be happy to put in my two herbal cents regarding Chinese herbal treatment. The first question I have is about the " leaky gut " . What are his symptoms and what gave rise to this diagnosis? Secondly, your diagnosis is " Sp qi xu w/ damp, Ht qi/blood xu w/ some signs of heat but not excessive, Kid qi and essence xu, phlegm misting the mind/orifices/heart " Could you let me know why this is your diagnosis - I mean, what are the signs of Sp Qi Xu, of damp, of heart Qi xu, of heart blood xu, of heat, of Kidney Qi Xu, Kidney essence Xu and phlegm misting? I'm not sure I get the logic or basis of the diagnosis and would like to know how you are thinking of this. Finally, you write that his muscles are hypotonic. Do his muscles tend to be a bit flaccid? And is his skin moist or dry? my best, Sharon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 Wow, Im really starting to wish I didn't ask for help, how am I supposed to read this other than with negative conotations??? What is wrong with asking for herbal help? I have been appreciative of the posts so far with biomed thoughts, and yes Im pretty sure I can handle the point part, but apparantly it is assumed I care less about my own flesh and blood than patients, what a croc. You have no idea why I haven't asked abount points so how can you make that assumption and where did it come from? On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 2:44 PM, jasonwcom <jasonwcom wrote: > If you are an acupuncturist you should give your son acupuncture too, > better he than perfect strangers that come to your office he's your > own flesh and blood > Recent Activity > > - 5 > New Members<Chinese Medicine/members;_ylc=\ X3oDMTJmMjkwdjlyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzk0OTU5NzcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwODE0BHNl\ YwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEyMjk3MjY2ODk-> > - 1 > New Links<Chinese Medicine/links;_ylc=X3oD\ MTJndjcxaDllBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzk0OTU5NzcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwODE0BHNlYwN2\ dGwEc2xrA3ZsaW5rcwRzdGltZQMxMjI5NzI2Njg5> > - 1 > New Files<Chinese Medicine/files;_ylc=X3oD\ MTJnMG4wYXVsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzk0OTU5NzcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwODE0BHNlYwN2\ dGwEc2xrA3ZmaWxlcwRzdGltZQMxMjI5NzI2Njg5> > > Visit Your Group > <Chinese Medicine;_ylc=X3oDMTJlczJnNzA\ yBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzk0OTU5NzcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwODE0BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3Z\ naHAEc3RpbWUDMTIyOTcyNjY4OQ--> > Health > > Healthy Aging<http://us.ard./SIG=13rblusgf/M=493064.12016303.12582636.9706571/D\ =grphealth/S=1705060814:NC/Y=/EXP=1229733889/L=/B=rrq6YELaX.Y-/J=1229726689\ 577646/A=5191950/R=0/SIG=12ekfsqmu/*http://health./aging-overview/healt\ hy-aging/healthwise--tn9719.html> > > Improve your > > quality of life. > Ads on > > Learn more now.<http://us.ard./SIG=13rihi90b/M=493064.12016308.12445700.8674578/D=\ grphealth/S=1705060814:NC/Y=/EXP=1229733889/L=/B=r7q6YELaX.Y-/J=12297266895\ 77646/A=3848643/R=0/SIG=131q47hek/*http://searchmarketing./arp/srchv2.p\ hp?o=US2005 & cmp= & ctv=Groups4 & s=Y & s2= & s3= & b=50> > > Reach customers > > searching for you. > Check out the > > Y! Groups blog<http://us.ard./SIG=13ro066pp/M=493064.12016258.12582637.8674578/D=\ grphealth/S=1705060814:NC/Y=/EXP=1229733889/L=/B=sLq6YELaX.Y-/J=12297266895\ 77646/A=5191952/R=0/SIG=112mhte3e/*http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/> > > Stay up to speed > > on all things Groups! > . > > > -- Julie Ormonde, L.Ac. www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 I responded to your post with questions, I obviously read it and was interested in your opinion, what is up?? On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 2:36 PM, jasonwcom <jasonwcom wrote: > I'll repeat > > Try bai zi ren wan and run chang wan together at a mild dose > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > " Julie Ormonde " > <cariadanam wrote: > > > > I did have my say and I have let it go, now maybe someone could > actually try > > to help me HERBALLY? > > > > On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: > > > > > Hi All: > > > > > > " neurotoxins or genetics or the enviroment or weak immune > > > systems and really all of us hundreds of thousands of parents are > just not > > > loving our children and/or abusing them and while we are abusing > them we > > > are > > > spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on therapies, losing our > homes > > > losing ourselves trying to recover them, but I digress... " > > > > > > I Ching Hexagram 4. Meng > > > In punishing folly > > > It does not further one > > > To commit transgressions. > > > The only thing that furthers > > > Is to prevent transgressions. > > > > > > I don't believe ad hominem attacks, defamation or libel are > appropriate in > > > this forum - maybe elsewhere. This forum is ostensibly about the > healing of > > > the human heart. The man apologised PROFUSELY, and he clearly did > not intend > > > harm. Please let it go. > > > > > > Hugo > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > Hugo Ramiro > > > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > > > http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 Hugo thank you very much, I have been contemplating root vs branch quite alot and was tending to think treat the root but my pause for concern is toxins, do you think the root can heal if theier are toxins and should this be addressed from the beginning? I think I am looking at this partially from a western standpoint in terms of the toxins and maybe there aren't toxins in terms of TCM? I am also a little confused as to what the heart is doing. Is it qi, blood, yin, heat, phlegm - it seems like all of them! Overall he is clearly deficient, but his tongue and pulse do show some excess which is where I think the toxins/pathogens come in and he has some signs that show it but not alot. Thanks for your thoughts Julie On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 2:09 PM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: > Hi Julie, a comment, and some potential help: > > " I'd like to see you get kicked in the > gut and stand right up and smile at the person. Maybe you have > evolved more than me. " > > Many times, I do my best, and practice makes perfect, hopefully. > > Generally, reading his case, I have many questions, but some basics may be > useful: > > Basic A: > Follow CM dietetics, i.e. low glycemic diet, cooked food mostly, no cold > foods in the morning, no milk or milk-like substances etc (pls ask if > unclear) > > Basic B: > *What goes in must come out* > Your child must be kept, as much as possible, in CALM, NON-STIMULATING > environments. The more stimulation goes in and bangs through his energy > system the more energy will find an outlet. Not only that but he will > develop habitual pattern responses that will develop a life of their own, > and become AGGRAVATED in a calm environment. > This point is ESSENTIAL. > > For me, one may get lost in the consideration of all the branches, and so I > would focus on the roots and treat those first and foremost. > > The Roots must be: > 1. Digestive insufficiency > 2. Pre-Heaven weakness > 3. Accumulation of Phlegm > 4. Disturbance of the Heart Mind > > 1. Treat with mild diet as described above and pediatric formula for > digestive insufficiency / food stagnation / phlegm retention: Xiao Shi Pian > (¾®Ñ¹¾Ã¿©ÊÒ) > Find at http://tinyurl.com/5xlwlg > Formula is composed of Ji Nei Jin, Shan Zha, Chen Pi, Mai Ya, Bing Lang > > 2. For now step one will take care of this. > > 3. Step 1 will take care of this. > > 4. Familiarise yourself with Dian syndrome (it sounds like he used to have > Kuang syndrome, he has now bounced to the opposite): > A Yin pattern, mostly from emptiness. > The main symptoms are: depression, mutism, fear, insecurity, anxiousness, > memory deficit, depressed mood, quietness, deep and thready pulse, pale > tongue, face without light, dull expression. > There may also be fullness within emptiness: yin liver, empty kidneys and > floating yang: inconsistent thought patterns, mental confusion, emotional > instability, tongue with red edhes or tip, thready, rapid, wiry pulse. > Thick accumulations of Phlegm blocking the Du Mai: dullness, mutism, > stiffness of the limbs, psychological retreat, white and greasy tongue > coating, tense and full pulse. > > Overall, my strategy with autism kids who present with something like Dian > syndrome is what I have outlined above. I ask parents to do two things: > 1. Focus almost exclusively on the roots, and try to not get hooked by the > constantly variable and changing branch patterns, and > 2. Keep up with a simple, strategic, root treatment aimed at cleaning up > the fundamental mess ( " step 1 " ). This means, partially, that all treatments > should be eliminated unless absolutely regarded as essential. *Every > treatment has an effect* and therefore has the potential to knock the > (sensitive) patient off track. > > Once this has been kept up for several months, many things will settle down > and a clearer view of the root disharmonies will present themselves. > Reassess and progress as warranted. > > Of course, if branch disharmonies are clearly understood, they may be > treated at the same time too. > > My basic rules are listed under Basic A and B. > > Hope this helps, feel free to ask questions, > > Hugo > > ________________________________ > Hugo Ramiro > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org > > ________________________________ > cariadanam <cariadanam <cariadanam%40gmail..com>> > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > Friday, 19 December, 2008 14:12:35 > Re: Help needed for personal Autism case > > After someone's response about Nam's apology I decided to come check > out and it seems a few responses didn't make it to my > email, one of which was Nam's apology and another which was the > thought of chelation. > > Nam, thank you for your apology, I just ask that you really take some > time to look at the causes of autism and how it is affecting lives > before you make such an assumption, especially if you are actually > treating any of these cases. I hope your apology was more than just > an apology but an understanding of why it would have been poorly > received. I'd be happy to share a cup of tea and invite you to spend > some time with my son and I, I think you'd be quite delighted by > him. I am ready to move on from it. Again thank you. > > As for those of you who were upset at my other response, one I had > not seen Nam's response and two I'd like to see you get kicked in the > gut and stand right up and smile at the person. Maybe you have > evolved more than me. > > As for the idea of chelation - I have mildly considered it but I > still have some biomedical avenues to go down and Chinese formulas to > try. Chelation is not something to do lightly and it will probably > be my last option. I honestly don't think we will even need to. But > thank you for the thought. > > Julie > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 Hi Julie, I am impressed with the detail and clarity of your information about your son. I have a few questions for you and then I'd be happy to put in my two herbal cents regarding Chinese herbal treatment. Thanks Sharon, I appreciate it. My responses in purple... The first question I have is about the " leaky gut " . What are his symptoms and what gave rise to this diagnosis? Well this is a western diagnosis (I know, I know don't mix the two!) Probably one of the only consistent things across almost all kids with Autism is Leaky Gut. Somehow the lining of the gut gets inflamed and damaged, foods not completely broken down due to allergens or whatever get through the lining and become toxins with a direct affect on the brain. Once digestive enzymes are incorporated you see alot of the food allergy/intolerance issues get significantly better therefore great decreasing behaviors and other symptoms. Enzymes are at this point the most effective and transforming thing I have done. I started these immediately when he was diagnosed and had such tremendous gains that I went the biomedical route with him. (Acupuncture was absolutely tortorous for him and no it wasn't me just being a mom overly concerned with her baby hurting, I am an acupuncturist after all) So that is the reasoning for Leaky Gut Secondly, your diagnosis is " Sp qi xu w/ damp, Ht qi/blood xu w/ some signs of heat but not excessive, Kid qi and essence xu, phlegm misting the mind/orifices/heart " Could you let me know why this is your diagnosis - I mean, what are the signs of Sp Qi Xu, - food intolerance, distended belly, constipation, quivery tongue, weak muscles, fatigue damp - tongue coat, slippery pulse heart qi, blood, yin - lack of focus, talking to self, irreg pulse, tongue red tip, notch, curls up of heat, - rapid pulse, red tongue tip, irritability, gets hyped up Kidney Qi Xu, Kid essence - balance and coordination issues, slow growth in height, milestones late phlegm misting? - slippery pulse, mental clarity, talking to self, tongue coat I'm not sure I get the logic or basis of the diagnosis and would like to know how you are thinking of this. Finally, you write that his muscles are hypotonic. Do his muscles tend to be a bit flaccid? yes with poor strength And is his skin moist or dry? dry skin, dry coarse hair, had " chicken skin " better with EFAs oh and one more thing I should mention he had eczema which cleared up with the elimination of dairy, he also had extreme colic and reflux as an infant which required me to eliminate all foods except five (chicken, rice, pears, potatoes, rice milk, and something else but i can't remember) for about a year, he was breastfed. my best, Sharon Thanks Sharon, julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 > 'Twas the Night Before Christmas > > 'Twas the night before Christmas and all through the house > > The creatures were stirring, yes, even the mouse > > We tried Melatonin and gave a hot bath > > But the holiday jitters, they always distract > > The children were finally all nestled in bed > > When nightmares of terror ran through my OWN head > > Did I get the right gift, the right color and style? > > Would there be a tantrum or, maybe, a smile? > > Our relatives come but they don't understand > > The pleasure he gets just from repeating and focusing > > They say " He needs discipline, just a well-needed smack " > > " You must learn to parent " and on goes the attack > > We smile and nod because we know deep inside > > The argument is moot, let them all take a side > > For only we know autism's procession > > The struggles and triumphs, achievements, regression > > See, what they don't know and what they don't see > > Is the joy that we feel over simplicity > > " He said Hello! " , " She ate something green! " > > " He told his first lie! " , " She did not cause a scene! " > > " He peed on the potty, who CARES if he's ten! " > > " He stopped saying the same thing again and again! " > > Others don't realize just how we can cope > > How we bravely hang on at the end of our rope > > But what they don't see is the joy we can't hide > > When our children with autism make the tiniest stride > > We may look at others without the problems we face > > With jealousy, sadness, or even distaste > > But what they don't know, nor sometimes do we > > Is that children with autism bring joyous simplicity > > They don't get excited over expensive things > > But we jump for joy over the progress work brings > > Children with autism try hard every day > > They make us proud more than words can say > > They work even harder than you or I > > To achieve something small, to reach a star in the sky > > So to those who don't get it or don't have a clue > > Take a walk in my shoes and I'll assure you > > that ten minutes in you'll look with respect > > at the little child who no one ever expects > > To be larger than life because he's so quiet or so different > > before being judgmental perhaps you should try it > > Our holidays are different, they're special, it's true > > Wondrous children make it so through all that they do > > But our joy is no less, my lights just as bright > > as I look at my child and say " Merry Christmas, good night " . > > Take care all!! > > --Author Unknown > > (courtesy of Autism Support Network, PA) > > Quoteable ________________________ > > Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. > > small people always do that, but the really great make you > > feel that you, too, can become great! --Mark Twain > Recent Activity > > - 5 > New Members<Chinese Medicine/members;_ylc=\ X3oDMTJmZTNrc2JpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzk0OTU5NzcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwODE0BHNl\ YwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEyMjk3MjQ1NDY-> > - 1 > New Links<Chinese Medicine/links;_ylc=X3oD\ MTJnc2Jxc2gxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzk0OTU5NzcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwODE0BHNlYwN2\ dGwEc2xrA3ZsaW5rcwRzdGltZQMxMjI5NzI0NTQ2> > - 1 > New Files<Chinese Medicine/files;_ylc=X3oD\ MTJnYWwzYTlsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzk0OTU5NzcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwODE0BHNlYwN2\ dGwEc2xrA3ZmaWxlcwRzdGltZQMxMjI5NzI0NTQ2> > > Visit Your Group > <Chinese Medicine;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMzNsaW1\ oBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzk0OTU5NzcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwODE0BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3Z\ naHAEc3RpbWUDMTIyOTcyNDU0Ng--> > Health > > Early Detection<http://us.ard./SIG=13ro1sop6/M=493064.12016303.12582636.97065\ 71/D=grphealth/S=1705060814:NC/Y=/EXP=1229731746/L=/B=XfXySULaX.E-/J=122972\ 4546262972/A=5191946/R=0/SIG=12u9heqpd/*http://health./breastcancer-sym\ ptoms/breast-cancer-symptoms/healthwise--tv3621.html> > > Know the symptoms > > of breast cancer. > New web site? > > Drive traffic now.<http://us.ard./SIG=13r80boqq/M=493064.12016308.12445700.8674578/D=\ grphealth/S=1705060814:NC/Y=/EXP=1229731746/L=/B=XvXySULaX.E-/J=12297245462\ 62972/A=3848642/R=0/SIG=131eshi2t/*http://searchmarketing./arp/srchv2.p\ hp?o=US2004 & cmp= & ctv=Groups3 & s=Y & s2= & s3= & b=50> > > Get your business > > on search. > Sell Online > > Start selling with<http://us.ard./SIG=13rpoq1jr/M=493064.12016255.12445662.8674578/D=\ grphealth/S=1705060814:NC/Y=/EXP=1229731746/L=/B=X_XySULaX.E-/J=12297245462\ 62972/A=4025291/R=0/SIG=12bsapn24/*http://us.rd./evt=44092/*http://smal\ lbusiness./merchant> > > our award-winning > > e-commerce tools. > . > > > -- Julie Ormonde, L.Ac. www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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