Guest guest Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Thanks, Bill. Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Mon, 7/21/08, bill_schoenbart <plantmed2 wrote: bill_schoenbart <plantmed2 Re: gum and bone loss Monday, July 21, 2008, 2:09 PM Andrea, It depends on your actual diagnosis. In menopausal " power surges " , there is often both yin and yang xu. If you balance the Kidney yang herbs with Kidney yin herbs and add herbs like Huang Bai to clear deficiency heat, it shouldn't be a problem. Of course, I'm speaking theoretically, since I don't know your pattern. Since you are the patient, you should be able to formulate something balanced and listen to your body's feedback to modify the formula. - Bill , < wrote: > > Thanks, Bill. I was also thinking about the bone-strengthening herbs, but was concerned about them being too warming... Do you have experience with using these for bone loss in > menopausal women with " power surges " ? > > Andrea Beth > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > > --- Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including a practitioner's directory and a moderated discussion forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 This is very interesting. Thank you for sending it. Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Mon, 7/21/08, <johnkokko wrote: <johnkokko Re: Re: gum and bone loss Monday, July 21, 2008, 4:05 PM Hi Andrea, a dui yao for yin def heat (menopausal symptoms) could by Mo han lian and Nu zhen zi. They are not cloying, nourish the LV/KD yin, blackens the hair, are cooling and Mo han lian is specifically known for solidifying loose teeth. Also in the tonify yin category, Gui ban can (cold) can strengthen bones and anchor yang. Could these be added to the herbs that Bill suggested? K. On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 1:06 PM, < wrote: > Thanks, Bill. I was also thinking about the bone-strengthening herbs, > but was concerned about them being too warming... Do you have experience > with using these for bone loss in > menopausal women with " power surges " ? > > > Andrea Beth > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > > --- On Mon, 7/21/08, bill_schoenbart <plantmed2<plantmed2%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > bill_schoenbart <plantmed2 <plantmed2%40gmail.com>> > Re: gum and bone loss > To: <%40> > Monday, July 21, 2008, 12:47 PM > > > I have seen this in an otherwise healthy patient who had a very-low- > protein diet. In your case, if it's genetic, I would use the > bone-strengthening herbs in the Tonify Kidney category, such as Xu > Duan, Ba Ji Tian, Lu Rong, Gui Ban, Gu Sui Bu, Gou Ji, and Du Zhong. > > Gotu Kola should help strengthen the connective tissue in the sockets. > It can be purchased as an extract. If you have a greenhouse, you could > grow it and drink the juice. > > - Bill Schoenbart > > --- In <%40>, > > < wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > Despite great hygiene and very clean teeth, I am experiencing rapid > gum recession and now also some bone loss around my teeth.� The > recession was pretty gradual until I started transitioning in to > menopause a year or so ago.� My dentist tells me she's never seen a > cleaner mouth, but is concerned about the recession, especially since > my front lower teeth are starting to loosen.� I will be seeing a > periodontist this week, but want to know if anyone knows of herbal > formulas that can assist in regeneration of both, gum tissue and > bone.� Apparently, this is genetic - my mom experienced the same > thing, and despite transplanting tissue from the roof of her mouth to > her gumline, she still ended up needing bone grafts for dental > implants. I'd love to avoid all of that, if possible.� Anyone have > good results with our medicine? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > Andrea Beth > > > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 > > Cottonwood, AZ� 86326 > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Thank you, Cara. The lycopene article is interesting. Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Mon, 7/21/08, Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote: Cara Frank <herbbabe Re: Re: gum and bone loss Monday, July 21, 2008, 4:29 PM Andrea, I experienced gum recession during both my pregnancies. My dentist had me take 100 mgs of Co-Q 10, which seemed to help at the time. Also- there were articles on watermelon and lycopene content all over the news several months ago. When watermelon is warm, the lycopene content increases http://www.healthcastle.com/lycopene_watermelon.shtml anyway: on an herbal note: the teeth are governed by the kidneys: the gums by the st/LI/ yang ming. This brings to mind herbs such as sheng ma and sheng di ( and sheng di might be included in a formula to manage other menopausal sx. Just a few thoughts..... Cara O. Frank, R.OM, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. Six Fishes Healing Arts & President China Herb Company of the Chinese Herb Program Tai Sophia Institute of the Healing Arts 215-772-0770 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Thanks, Tom! Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Tue, 7/22/08, Thomas Hurrle <tom wrote: Thomas Hurrle <tom Re: gum and bone loss Tuesday, July 22, 2008, 12:44 PM CO-Q 10 is particularily helpful for inflammation, a larger dose is more effective ~125g/d or more. Often there is periodintal inflammation in this situation, probably associated with yin deficiency stomach heat. Pockets between the gum & tooth & gum tenderness show inflammation. If this is present a salt mouthwash is useful. Long term, a diet to support the kidneys is a sound strategy. Paul Pitchford would be a place to start. Tom Hurrle Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote: > > Andrea, > I experienced gum recession during both my pregnancies. My dentist had > me take 100 mgs of Co-Q 10, which seemed to help at the time. > --- Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including a practitioner's directory and a moderated discussion forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Hi Kokko, in browsing around the Bastyr website, i noticed this Whole Body Dentistry -- http://www.bastyr.edu/bookstore/order/books.asp?item={56A04844-54ED-4C88-BC15-04\ 4779472445} & catid=22 here it is on amazon - http://www.amazon.com/Whole-Body-Dentistry-Discover-Missing-Better/dp/0967844304\ /ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8 & s=books & qid=1217227405 & sr=8-1 looks like it includes Voll stuff amongst other good info. ~e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 Edith, Looks great and only $13.57 Anyone on this group have a Voll dental meridian chart on hand? Are there any other texts out there which have microsystem charts ? How about Ralph Alan Dale? K. On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 11:46 PM, Edith Chan, L.Ac. <chineseherbswrote: > Hi Kokko, > > in browsing around the Bastyr website, i noticed this Whole Body Dentistry > -- > http://www.bastyr.edu/bookstore/order/books.asp?item= > {56A04844-54ED-4C88-BC15-044779472445} & catid=22 > > here it is on amazon - > > http://www.amazon.com/Whole-Body-Dentistry-Discover-Missing-Better/dp/0967844304\ /ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8 & s=books & qid=1217227405 & sr=8-1 > > looks like it includes Voll stuff amongst other good info. > > ~e > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 Re: tooth chart - see below. My belief is that some of the basic idea holds true in many persons, but like all microsystems, you need to establish multiple corroborating signs to have a clue what is going on in any given individual. This is on one of S. Barret's quackwatch pages: http://www.dentalwatch.org/questionable/toothcharts.html NOTE: This link is not to be construed as an endorsement of Mr Barret's view's in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER. joe reid www.jreidomd.blogspot.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 Joe, I never thought that I would thank S. Barrett! He's promoting acupuncture and he doesn't even know it. Interesting thing about the chart is that the right sided Earth channel corresponds to the Pancreas, while the left side corresponds to the Spleen. A naturopath who utilizes Voll technology taught me that the right sided " SP " primary channel corresponds to the Pancreas as well. ie. needle the R side of SP 3 to stimulate the pancreas. Anyone else know about this? Thanks Joe for the chart. K. On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 9:00 PM, jreidomd <jreidomd wrote: > Re: tooth chart - see below. My belief is that some of the basic idea > holds true in many persons, but like all microsystems, you need to > establish multiple corroborating signs to have a clue what is going on > in any given individual. > > This is on one of S. Barret's quackwatch pages: > http://www.dentalwatch.org/questionable/toothcharts.html > > NOTE: This link is not to be construed as an endorsement of Mr > Barret's view's in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER. > > joe reid > www.jreidomd.blogspot.com > > > -- aka Mu bong Lim Father of Bhakti The Four Reliances: Do not rely upon the individual, but rely upon the teaching. As far as teachings go, do not rely upon the words alone, but rely upon the meaning that underlies them. Regarding the meaning, do not rely upon the provisional meaning alone, but rely upon the definitive meaning. And regarding the definitive meaning, do not rely upon ordinary consciousness, but rely upon wisdom awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 George Soulie De Morant States: The meridian of the pancreas is on the left - that of the spleen on the right. Ross - Chinese Medicine Monday, July 28, 2008 10:43 PM Re: gum and bone loss Joe, I never thought that I would thank S. Barrett! He's promoting acupuncture and he doesn't even know it. Interesting thing about the chart is that the right sided Earth channel corresponds to the Pancreas, while the left side corresponds to the Spleen. A naturopath who utilizes Voll technology taught me that the right sided " SP " primary channel corresponds to the Pancreas as well. ie. needle the R side of SP 3 to stimulate the pancreas. Anyone else know about this? Thanks Joe for the chart. K. On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 9:00 PM, jreidomd <jreidomd wrote: > Re: tooth chart - see below. My belief is that some of the basic idea > holds true in many persons, but like all microsystems, you need to > establish multiple corroborating signs to have a clue what is going on > in any given individual. > > This is on one of S. Barret's quackwatch pages: > http://www.dentalwatch.org/questionable/toothcharts.html > > NOTE: This link is not to be construed as an endorsement of Mr > Barret's view's in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER. > > joe reid > www.jreidomd.blogspot.com > > > -- aka Mu bong Lim Father of Bhakti The Four Reliances: Do not rely upon the individual, but rely upon the teaching. As far as teachings go, do not rely upon the words alone, but rely upon the meaning that underlies them. Regarding the meaning, do not rely upon the provisional meaning alone, but rely upon the definitive meaning. And regarding the definitive meaning, do not rely upon ordinary consciousness, but rely upon wisdom awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Andrea: This is not a response of which herbal formula to recommend at this time. May I suggest you at least consider taking a Co-Enzyme known as CQ 10 at around 100mg, capsule or gel or liquid. After flossing followed by brushing then last thing before bed take the CQ 10 on a gum brush and gently brush the cq 10 into the gums and DO NOT rinse your mouth. Great research from Japan from at least 10 years ago or so. This co enzyme brings O2 into the cells and kills anarobic bacteria and oxygenates the gums.Also take an additional 200mg per day orally. Peter Marinakis,PhD, MAc, FNAAOM Full Circle Healing Arts 645 Ridgely Ave. Annapolis, MD 21401 410-266-9370 On Jul 20, 2008, at 2:51 PM, wrote: > Hi All, > > Despite great hygiene and very clean teeth, I am experiencing rapid > gum recession and now also some bone loss around my teeth. The > recession was pretty gradual until I started transitioning in to > menopause a year or so ago. My dentist tells me she's never seen a > cleaner mouth, but is concerned about the recession, especially > since my front lower teeth are starting to loosen. I will be seeing > a periodontist this week, but want to know if anyone knows of herbal > formulas that can assist in regeneration of both, gum tissue and > bone. Apparently, this is genetic - my mom experienced the same > thing, and despite transplanting tissue from the roof of her mouth > to her gumline, she still ended up needing bone grafts for dental > implants. I'd love to avoid all of that, if possible. Anyone have > good results with our medicine? > > Thanks in advance, > Andrea Beth > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Cool, Peter. Is this also effective where there is no bacterial problem, as in my case? Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Tue, 10/7/08, Peter Marinakis <pmarinakis wrote: Peter Marinakis <pmarinakis Re: gum and bone loss Chinese Medicine Cc: " Marinakis Peter " <pmarinakis Tuesday, October 7, 2008, 9:00 PM Andrea: This is not a response of which herbal formula to recommend at this time. May I suggest you at least consider taking a Co-Enzyme known as CQ 10 at around 100mg, capsule or gel or liquid. After flossing followed by brushing then last thing before bed take the CQ 10 on a gum brush and gently brush the cq 10 into the gums and DO NOT rinse your mouth. Great research from Japan from at least 10 years ago or so. This co enzyme brings O2 into the cells and kills anarobic bacteria and oxygenates the gums.Also take an additional 200mg per day orally. Peter Marinakis,PhD, MAc, FNAAOM Full Circle Healing Arts 645 Ridgely Ave. Annapolis, MD 21401 410-266-9370 On Jul 20, 2008, at 2:51 PM, wrote: > Hi All, > > Despite great hygiene and very clean teeth, I am experiencing rapid > gum recession and now also some bone loss around my teeth. The > recession was pretty gradual until I started transitioning in to > menopause a year or so ago. My dentist tells me she's never seen a > cleaner mouth, but is concerned about the recession, especially > since my front lower teeth are starting to loosen. I will be seeing > a periodontist this week, but want to know if anyone knows of herbal > formulas that can assist in regeneration of both, gum tissue and > bone. Apparently, this is genetic - my mom experienced the same > thing, and despite transplanting tissue from the roof of her mouth > to her gumline, she still ended up needing bone grafts for dental > implants. I'd love to avoid all of that, if possible. Anyone have > good results with our medicine? > > Thanks in advance, > Andrea Beth > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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