Guest guest Posted July 20, 2008 Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 Hi All, Despite great hygiene and very clean teeth, I am experiencing rapid gum recession and now also some bone loss around my teeth. The recession was pretty gradual until I started transitioning in to menopause a year or so ago. My dentist tells me she's never seen a cleaner mouth, but is concerned about the recession, especially since my front lower teeth are starting to loosen. I will be seeing a periodontist this week, but want to know if anyone knows of herbal formulas that can assist in regeneration of both, gum tissue and bone. Apparently, this is genetic - my mom experienced the same thing, and despite transplanting tissue from the roof of her mouth to her gumline, she still ended up needing bone grafts for dental implants. I'd love to avoid all of that, if possible. Anyone have good results with our medicine? Thanks in advance, Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2008 Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 Andrea Beth, Are you taking any herbs, medicines, nutrients or minerals? --- On Sun, 7/20/08, < wrote: < gum and bone loss " alumni PCOM " <alumni, " Chinese Herbal Medicine " , " TCM List " <Chinese Traditional Medicine > Sunday, July 20, 2008, 11:51 AM Hi All, Despite great hygiene and very clean teeth, I am experiencing rapid gum recession and now also some bone loss around my teeth. The recession was pretty gradual until I started transitioning in to menopause a year or so ago. My dentist tells me she's never seen a cleaner mouth, but is concerned about the recession, especially since my front lower teeth are starting to loosen. I will be seeing a periodontist this week, but want to know if anyone knows of herbal formulas that can assist in regeneration of both, gum tissue and bone. Apparently, this is genetic - my mom experienced the same thing, and despite transplanting tissue from the roof of her mouth to her gumline, she still ended up needing bone grafts for dental implants. I'd love to avoid all of that, if possible. Anyone have good results with our medicine? Thanks in advance, Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2008 Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 Also, can you tell us about your tongue, pulses, and what you would consider your patterns and differential diagnosis. --- On Sun, 7/20/08, < wrote: < gum and bone loss " alumni PCOM " <alumni, " Chinese Herbal Medicine " , " TCM List " <Chinese Traditional Medicine > Sunday, July 20, 2008, 11:51 AM Hi All, Despite great hygiene and very clean teeth, I am experiencing rapid gum recession and now also some bone loss around my teeth. The recession was pretty gradual until I started transitioning in to menopause a year or so ago. My dentist tells me she's never seen a cleaner mouth, but is concerned about the recession, especially since my front lower teeth are starting to loosen. I will be seeing a periodontist this week, but want to know if anyone knows of herbal formulas that can assist in regeneration of both, gum tissue and bone. Apparently, this is genetic - my mom experienced the same thing, and despite transplanting tissue from the roof of her mouth to her gumline, she still ended up needing bone grafts for dental implants. I'd love to avoid all of that, if possible. Anyone have good results with our medicine? Thanks in advance, Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Hi Yehuda, I had been taking a variety of herbs for fibromyalgia and allergies until I started feeling particularly well a couple of months ago. This included blood tonics, blood movers, and liver-calming herbs. I also was taking krill oil. Suddenly I stopped taking everything, feeling I'd had my fill for a while, but in the last week have started taking tian ma gou teng yin, as I do for yang rising symptoms I get every summer. I am not on any pharmaceuticals. Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Sun, 7/20/08, wrote: Re: gum and bone loss Chinese Medicine Sunday, July 20, 2008, 12:03 PM Andrea Beth, Are you taking any herbs, medicines, nutrients or minerals? --- On Sun, 7/20/08, < wrote: < gum and bone loss " alumni PCOM " <alumni, " Chinese Herb Academy " , " TCM List " <Chinese Traditional Medicine > Sunday, July 20, 2008, 11:51 AM Hi All, Despite great hygiene and very clean teeth, I am experiencing rapid gum recession and now also some bone loss around my teeth. The recession was pretty gradual until I started transitioning in to menopause a year or so ago. My dentist tells me she's never seen a cleaner mouth, but is concerned about the recession, especially since my front lower teeth are starting to loosen. I will be seeing a periodontist this week, but want to know if anyone knows of herbal formulas that can assist in regeneration of both, gum tissue and bone. Apparently, this is genetic - my mom experienced the same thing, and despite transplanting tissue from the roof of her mouth to her gumline, she still ended up needing bone grafts for dental implants. I'd love to avoid all of that, if possible. Anyone have good results with our medicine? Thanks in advance, Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Tongue: puffy, dusky pink with scalloped orangey sides. Transverse crack in lung area. Medium-thick dry white coat, sometimes greasy and slightly yellow; no coat on sides. Pulses Left: thin, weak, slightly choppy and tight middle position, soft in distal position, medium depth Right: weaker and smaller than left; overall thready and deficient Pulses are strongest and most substantial in middle position of both wrists. Having just turned 52 on Wednesday, I am constitutionally a damp spleen qi deficient, wood -invading-earth type with kidney qi deficiency and lung qi deficiency, resulting in wei qi xu. I also have moderate, intermittent stomach heat. Entering menopause, I am seeing some yang rising, causing headaches especially in hot weather. I am recently seeing some yin deficiency symptoms with dryness, such as dry eyes. I have been diagnosed by one of my mentors as a " shao yang type " , having a retained pathogen in the shao yang layer. I have read of periodontal disease as being attributed to stomach fire, but I don't have the associated symptoms of redness, bleeding, swelling, and infection. I have disappearing gums and diminishing bone. My gums feel slightly irritated and my lower front teeth are slightly loose. No matter what I do, all my muscles clench tightly in my sleep, including my jaw, and I believe this is what started the gum recession originally. Now I think it's being complicated by kidney and liver yin deficiency. Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Sun, 7/20/08, wrote: Re: gum and bone loss Chinese Medicine Sunday, July 20, 2008, 12:05 PM Also, can you tell us about your tongue, pulses, and what you would consider your patterns and differential diagnosis. --- On Sun, 7/20/08, < wrote: < gum and bone loss " alumni PCOM " <alumni, " Chinese Herb Academy " , " TCM List " <Chinese Traditional Medicine > Sunday, July 20, 2008, 11:51 AM Hi All, Despite great hygiene and very clean teeth, I am experiencing rapid gum recession and now also some bone loss around my teeth. The recession was pretty gradual until I started transitioning in to menopause a year or so ago. My dentist tells me she's never seen a cleaner mouth, but is concerned about the recession, especially since my front lower teeth are starting to loosen. I will be seeing a periodontist this week, but want to know if anyone knows of herbal formulas that can assist in regeneration of both, gum tissue and bone. Apparently, this is genetic - my mom experienced the same thing, and despite transplanting tissue from the roof of her mouth to her gumline, she still ended up needing bone grafts for dental implants. I'd love to avoid all of that, if possible. Anyone have good results with our medicine? Thanks in advance, Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 wrote: >... experiencing rapid gum recession and now also some bone loss around my teeth. ... want to know if anyone knows of herbal formulas that can assist in regeneration of both, gum tissue and bone. > Hi Andrea and all, It is known to be possible. With one patient, woman mid 60's, customized herbal formulas, over the course of a couple of years appeared to contribute to regrowth of bone at and around teeth roots. She had severe peridontitis, heavy-dosed antibiotics for 6 months, loss of many teeth, and eventually diagnosed as " granuloma " at the teeth roots. Surgerical correction of that stopped the general progression of damage. One problem was that several of the specialists failed to recognized the granuloma. The CM diagnosis and treatment started a year or so later. The formulas were adapted to the condition and the patient's picture, including blood/xue deficiency,... There were no acute symptoms during the treatment, other than occasional flare-ups of TMJ. Core modules included usually si jun zi tang (support spleen -- building blood(, si wu tang (liver moving and storing blood); some of the lighter yin and yang tonics, such as xuan shen & tu si zi, nu zhen zi; nourishing blood, e.g. shou wu, dang gui, gou qi zi, etc. A side effect was her hair thickened and darkened. Hair dresser asked her what she was doing (maybe suspecting she was going somewhere else and getting her hair colored). The teeth specialists had not admitted it possible, but had to acknowledge (looking at comparative xrays) that bone was growing up along the teeth roots. This case is also note-worthy also in that one, supposedly 'alternative' MD (also licensed in acupuncture, but way back in California when it didn't include herbal medicine) took a blood test, and with blood sugar reading of 129, pronounced the patient as having diabetes, recommending drugs for that. No second testing, no otherwise supporting symptoms or history. After that, and the mistrust from various iatrogenic mistakes in the long drama of the gum disease, the patient turned to an MD who does homeopathy, under treatment there for almost a year now. With acupuncture regularly for tuning, prevention. (btw, one of those pediatric homeopaths who heavily uses Kan " gentle warrior " pediatric CM formulas; I've run across, heard of several homeopaths in this area who do that. Maybe, aside from arnica and a couple of others, homeopathy is weak in acute situations.) , L.Ac.] Palo Alto, California Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Wow, Chris. Was this woman a patient of yours? I like the approach you took. I didn't understand your comments about the Gentle Warriors formulas, though. Will you please explain? Thank you, Andrea beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Mon, 7/21/08, < wrote: < Re: gum and bone loss Chinese Medicine Monday, July 21, 2008, 12:07 AM wrote: >... experiencing rapid gum recession and now also some bone loss around my teeth. ... want to know if anyone knows of herbal formulas that can assist in regeneration of both, gum tissue and bone. > Hi Andrea and all, It is known to be possible. With one patient, woman mid 60's, customized herbal formulas, over the course of a couple of years appeared to contribute to regrowth of bone at and around teeth roots. She had severe peridontitis, heavy-dosed antibiotics for 6 months, loss of many teeth, and eventually diagnosed as " granuloma " at the teeth roots. Surgerical correction of that stopped the general progression of damage. One problem was that several of the specialists failed to recognized the granuloma. The CM diagnosis and treatment started a year or so later. The formulas were adapted to the condition and the patient's picture, including blood/xue deficiency,... There were no acute symptoms during the treatment, other than occasional flare-ups of TMJ. Core modules included usually si jun zi tang (support spleen -- building blood(, si wu tang (liver moving and storing blood); some of the lighter yin and yang tonics, such as xuan shen & tu si zi, nu zhen zi; nourishing blood, e.g. shou wu, dang gui, gou qi zi, etc. A side effect was her hair thickened and darkened. Hair dresser asked her what she was doing (maybe suspecting she was going somewhere else and getting her hair colored). The teeth specialists had not admitted it possible, but had to acknowledge (looking at comparative xrays) that bone was growing up along the teeth roots. This case is also note-worthy also in that one, supposedly 'alternative' MD (also licensed in acupuncture, but way back in California when it didn't include herbal medicine) took a blood test, and with blood sugar reading of 129, pronounced the patient as having diabetes, recommending drugs for that. No second testing, no otherwise supporting symptoms or history. After that, and the mistrust from various iatrogenic mistakes in the long drama of the gum disease, the patient turned to an MD who does homeopathy, under treatment there for almost a year now. With acupuncture regularly for tuning, prevention. (btw, one of those pediatric homeopaths who heavily uses Kan " gentle warrior " pediatric CM formulas; I've run across, heard of several homeopaths in this area who do that. Maybe, aside from arnica and a couple of others, homeopathy is weak in acute situations.) , L.Ac.] Palo Alto, California --- Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia and adjust accordingly. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Dear Andrea Beth, I would agree with the direction that Chris is taking. When thinking about your case, what specifically comes to mind is a longstanding and gradually worsening liver blood vacuity. The orange side of the tongue (I assume no coating), the scallops there as well, (I wouldn't be surprised if there is pitting as well) the choppy 2nd position, your age and the onset of menopause, and dry eyes all indicate to me that the liver blood is vacuitous. BTW, IMO I would definitely not move the blood, even though you are nourishing it. THERE'S just not enough of it! If I were you, and if you do eat meat, consider getting organic liver. I think that that might also be an element contributing to the clenching: not enough blood getting there and even possibly internal wind depending upon the symptoms. Specifically, Sionneau in the Treatment of Disease in TCM volume 3 says the following: " Bruxism is a common symptom among Western female patients who may either say they have tempero-mandibular joint disorder or that they grind their teeth at night. They may also say that their dentist has fitted them with a mouth splint to wear at night during sleep. Commonly, such women also suffer from neck and shoulder tension and restless sleep or insomnia, possibly with profuse dreams. Typically, such women in their late 30s and throughout their 40s present a more complex pattern than the simple patterns described above. Frequently, they display a combination of Spleen vacuity leading to qi and blood vacuity, liver depression with depressive heat, and an element of underlying Kidney vacuity. Usually they do not manifest full-blown signs and symptoms of Liver wind. " A formula that I would use as a foundation and a starting point would be Qi Bao Mei Ran Dan. BTW, Mayway sells it in their Plum Blossom line in pill form. But I would brew it up myself and add herbs such as Sha Ren, Shen Qu, or Mai Ya, to compensate for its cloying nature. I would also strongly consider taking Magnesium in one either the form of Citrate (as pure powder), glycinate, or perhaps specifically in your case with a history of fibromyalgia, malate. Also, I would strongly consider getting craniosacral work to balance the bones that articulate with the teeth and jaw, specifically the mandible, the sphenoid and the temporal bones. Good luck and hope you feel good! --- On Mon, 7/21/08, < wrote: < Re: gum and bone loss Chinese Medicine Monday, July 21, 2008, 12:07 AM wrote: >... experiencing rapid gum recession and now also some bone loss around my teeth. ... want to know if anyone knows of herbal formulas that can assist in regeneration of both, gum tissue and bone. > Hi Andrea and all, It is known to be possible. With one patient, woman mid 60's, customized herbal formulas, over the course of a couple of years appeared to contribute to regrowth of bone at and around teeth roots. She had severe peridontitis, heavy-dosed antibiotics for 6 months, loss of many teeth, and eventually diagnosed as " granuloma " at the teeth roots. Surgerical correction of that stopped the general progression of damage. One problem was that several of the specialists failed to recognized the granuloma. The CM diagnosis and treatment started a year or so later. The formulas were adapted to the condition and the patient's picture, including blood/xue deficiency,. .. There were no acute symptoms during the treatment, other than occasional flare-ups of TMJ. Core modules included usually si jun zi tang (support spleen -- building blood(, si wu tang (liver moving and storing blood); some of the lighter yin and yang tonics, such as xuan shen & tu si zi, nu zhen zi; nourishing blood, e.g. shou wu, dang gui, gou qi zi, etc. A side effect was her hair thickened and darkened. Hair dresser asked her what she was doing (maybe suspecting she was going somewhere else and getting her hair colored). The teeth specialists had not admitted it possible, but had to acknowledge (looking at comparative xrays) that bone was growing up along the teeth roots. This case is also note-worthy also in that one, supposedly 'alternative' MD (also licensed in acupuncture, but way back in California when it didn't include herbal medicine) took a blood test, and with blood sugar reading of 129, pronounced the patient as having diabetes, recommending drugs for that. No second testing, no otherwise supporting symptoms or history. After that, and the mistrust from various iatrogenic mistakes in the long drama of the gum disease, the patient turned to an MD who does homeopathy, under treatment there for almost a year now. With acupuncture regularly for tuning, prevention. (btw, one of those pediatric homeopaths who heavily uses Kan " gentle warrior " pediatric CM formulas; I've run across, heard of several homeopaths in this area who do that. Maybe, aside from arnica and a couple of others, homeopathy is weak in acute situations.) , L.Ac.] Palo Alto, California Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Thank you for your thoughts and time, Yehuda. I have just started trading with a woman who does cranio-sacral work. It very well could be relevant that I had an injury to my jaw in my 20's, which caused it to lock and I had to pry it open with my hands. Indeed, blood tonics have been the most helpful with my tight muscles and tendency to develop spasms. It is not only my jaw which clenches at night - my whole body does, and even years of blood tonics have not impacted this. There is no pitting in the sides of the tongue - in fact, the scallops are shallow. Liver is an interesting idea, but organic liver is not available where I live. I am particularly drawn to chicken liver (chopped liver - yum!), but are you recommending beef? Thank you for the Sionneau quote - I think it is particularly applicable in its entirety. I had taken magnesium malate for years in the past, without benefit. Really, blood tonics and, oddly, large amounts of sugar (I no longer do this!) are the only substances I have found to help the tight, stiff, crampy muscles. I will look further into your and Chris's recommendations. Thanks again, Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Mon, 7/21/08, wrote: Re: gum and bone loss Chinese Medicine Monday, July 21, 2008, 1:28 AM Dear Andrea Beth, I would agree with the direction that Chris is taking. When thinking about your case, what specifically comes to mind is a longstanding and gradually worsening liver blood vacuity. The orange side of the tongue (I assume no coating), the scallops there as well, (I wouldn't be surprised if there is pitting as well) the choppy 2nd position, your age and the onset of menopause, and dry eyes all indicate to me that the liver blood is vacuitous. BTW, IMO I would definitely not move the blood, even though you are nourishing it. THERE'S just not enough of it! If I were you, and if you do eat meat, consider getting organic liver. I think that that might also be an element contributing to the clenching: not enough blood getting there and even possibly internal wind depending upon the symptoms. Specifically, Sionneau in the Treatment of Disease in TCM volume 3 says the following: " Bruxism is a common symptom among Western female patients who may either say they have tempero-mandibular joint disorder or that they grind their teeth at night. They may also say that their dentist has fitted them with a mouth splint to wear at night during sleep. Commonly, such women also suffer from neck and shoulder tension and restless sleep or insomnia, possibly with profuse dreams. Typically, such women in their late 30s and throughout their 40s present a more complex pattern than the simple patterns described above. Frequently, they display a combination of Spleen vacuity leading to qi and blood vacuity, liver depression with depressive heat, and an element of underlying Kidney vacuity. Usually they do not manifest full-blown signs and symptoms of Liver wind. " A formula that I would use as a foundation and a starting point would be Qi Bao Mei Ran Dan. BTW, Mayway sells it in their Plum Blossom line in pill form. But I would brew it up myself and add herbs such as Sha Ren, Shen Qu, or Mai Ya, to compensate for its cloying nature. I would also strongly consider taking Magnesium in one either the form of Citrate (as pure powder), glycinate, or perhaps specifically in your case with a history of fibromyalgia, malate. Also, I would strongly consider getting craniosacral work to balance the bones that articulate with the teeth and jaw, specifically the mandible, the sphenoid and the temporal bones. Good luck and hope you feel good! --- On Mon, 7/21/08, < wrote: < Re: gum and bone loss Chinese Medicine Monday, July 21, 2008, 12:07 AM wrote: >... experiencing rapid gum recession and now also some bone loss around my teeth. ... want to know if anyone knows of herbal formulas that can assist in regeneration of both, gum tissue and bone. > Hi Andrea and all, It is known to be possible. With one patient, woman mid 60's, customized herbal formulas, over the course of a couple of years appeared to contribute to regrowth of bone at and around teeth roots. She had severe peridontitis, heavy-dosed antibiotics for 6 months, loss of many teeth, and eventually diagnosed as " granuloma " at the teeth roots. Surgerical correction of that stopped the general progression of damage. One problem was that several of the specialists failed to recognized the granuloma. The CM diagnosis and treatment started a year or so later. The formulas were adapted to the condition and the patient's picture, including blood/xue deficiency,. .. There were no acute symptoms during the treatment, other than occasional flare-ups of TMJ. Core modules included usually si jun zi tang (support spleen -- building blood(, si wu tang (liver moving and storing blood); some of the lighter yin and yang tonics, such as xuan shen & tu si zi, nu zhen zi; nourishing blood, e.g. shou wu, dang gui, gou qi zi, etc. A side effect was her hair thickened and darkened. Hair dresser asked her what she was doing (maybe suspecting she was going somewhere else and getting her hair colored). The teeth specialists had not admitted it possible, but had to acknowledge (looking at comparative xrays) that bone was growing up along the teeth roots. This case is also note-worthy also in that one, supposedly 'alternative' MD (also licensed in acupuncture, but way back in California when it didn't include herbal medicine) took a blood test, and with blood sugar reading of 129, pronounced the patient as having diabetes, recommending drugs for that. No second testing, no otherwise supporting symptoms or history. After that, and the mistrust from various iatrogenic mistakes in the long drama of the gum disease, the patient turned to an MD who does homeopathy, under treatment there for almost a year now. With acupuncture regularly for tuning, prevention. (btw, one of those pediatric homeopaths who heavily uses Kan " gentle warrior " pediatric CM formulas; I've run across, heard of several homeopaths in this area who do that. Maybe, aside from arnica and a couple of others, homeopathy is weak in acute situations.) , L.Ac.] Palo Alto, California Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 I have seen this in an otherwise healthy patient who had a very-low- protein diet. In your case, if it's genetic, I would use the bone-strengthening herbs in the Tonify Kidney category, such as Xu Duan, Ba Ji Tian, Lu Rong, Gui Ban, Gu Sui Bu, Gou Ji, and Du Zhong. Gotu Kola should help strengthen the connective tissue in the sockets. It can be purchased as an extract. If you have a greenhouse, you could grow it and drink the juice. - Bill Schoenbart , < wrote: > > Hi All, > > Despite great hygiene and very clean teeth, I am experiencing rapid gum recession and now also some bone loss around my teeth.� The recession was pretty gradual until I started transitioning in to menopause a year or so ago.� My dentist tells me she's never seen a cleaner mouth, but is concerned about the recession, especially since my front lower teeth are starting to loosen.� I will be seeing a periodontist this week, but want to know if anyone knows of herbal formulas that can assist in regeneration of both, gum tissue and bone.� Apparently, this is genetic - my mom experienced the same thing, and despite transplanting tissue from the roof of her mouth to her gumline, she still ended up needing bone grafts for dental implants. I'd love to avoid all of that, if possible.� Anyone have good results with our medicine? > > Thanks in advance, > Andrea Beth > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 > Cottonwood, AZ� 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Antioxidant satus appears to be a factor as well. This study uses Lycopene supplements, but you could also increase your intake of cooked tomatoes or watermelon: http://www.vitasearch.com/CP/experts/RChandraAT05-01-08.pdf - Bill Schoenbart , < wrote: > > Hi All, > > Despite great hygiene and very clean teeth, I am experiencing rapid gum recession and now also some bone loss around my teeth.� The recession was pretty gradual until I started transitioning in to menopause a year or so ago.� My dentist tells me she's never seen a cleaner mouth, but is concerned about the recession, especially since my front lower teeth are starting to loosen.� I will be seeing a periodontist this week, but want to know if anyone knows of herbal formulas that can assist in regeneration of both, gum tissue and bone.� Apparently, this is genetic - my mom experienced the same thing, and despite transplanting tissue from the roof of her mouth to her gumline, she still ended up needing bone grafts for dental implants. I'd love to avoid all of that, if possible.� Anyone have good results with our medicine? > > Thanks in advance, > Andrea Beth > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 > Cottonwood, AZ� 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Thanks, Bill. I was also thinking about the bone-strengthening herbs, but was concerned about them being too warming... Do you have experience with using these for bone loss in menopausal women with " power surges " ? Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Mon, 7/21/08, bill_schoenbart <plantmed2 wrote: bill_schoenbart <plantmed2 Re: gum and bone loss Monday, July 21, 2008, 12:47 PM I have seen this in an otherwise healthy patient who had a very-low- protein diet. In your case, if it's genetic, I would use the bone-strengthening herbs in the Tonify Kidney category, such as Xu Duan, Ba Ji Tian, Lu Rong, Gui Ban, Gu Sui Bu, Gou Ji, and Du Zhong. Gotu Kola should help strengthen the connective tissue in the sockets. It can be purchased as an extract. If you have a greenhouse, you could grow it and drink the juice. - Bill Schoenbart , < wrote: > > Hi All, > > Despite great hygiene and very clean teeth, I am experiencing rapid gum recession and now also some bone loss around my teeth.� The recession was pretty gradual until I started transitioning in to menopause a year or so ago.� My dentist tells me she's never seen a cleaner mouth, but is concerned about the recession, especially since my front lower teeth are starting to loosen.� I will be seeing a periodontist this week, but want to know if anyone knows of herbal formulas that can assist in regeneration of both, gum tissue and bone.� Apparently, this is genetic - my mom experienced the same thing, and despite transplanting tissue from the roof of her mouth to her gumline, she still ended up needing bone grafts for dental implants. I'd love to avoid all of that, if possible.� Anyone have good results with our medicine? > > Thanks in advance, > Andrea Beth > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 > Cottonwood, AZ� 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Interesting article, Bill. I like the association of red-colored foods for treating issues in the mouth, as well. Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Andrea, It depends on your actual diagnosis. In menopausal " power surges " , there is often both yin and yang xu. If you balance the Kidney yang herbs with Kidney yin herbs and add herbs like Huang Bai to clear deficiency heat, it shouldn't be a problem. Of course, I'm speaking theoretically, since I don't know your pattern. Since you are the patient, you should be able to formulate something balanced and listen to your body's feedback to modify the formula. - Bill , < wrote: > > Thanks, Bill. I was also thinking about the bone-strengthening herbs, but was concerned about them being too warming... Do you have experience with using these for bone loss in > menopausal women with " power surges " ? > > Andrea Beth > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Hi Andrea, a dui yao for yin def heat (menopausal symptoms) could by Mo han lian and Nu zhen zi. They are not cloying, nourish the LV/KD yin, blackens the hair, are cooling and Mo han lian is specifically known for solidifying loose teeth. Also in the tonify yin category, Gui ban can (cold) can strengthen bones and anchor yang. Could these be added to the herbs that Bill suggested? K. On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 1:06 PM, < wrote: > Thanks, Bill. I was also thinking about the bone-strengthening herbs, > but was concerned about them being too warming... Do you have experience > with using these for bone loss in > menopausal women with " power surges " ? > > > Andrea Beth > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > > --- On Mon, 7/21/08, bill_schoenbart <plantmed2<plantmed2%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > bill_schoenbart <plantmed2 <plantmed2%40gmail.com>> > Re: gum and bone loss > <%40> > Monday, July 21, 2008, 12:47 PM > > > I have seen this in an otherwise healthy patient who had a very-low- > protein diet. In your case, if it's genetic, I would use the > bone-strengthening herbs in the Tonify Kidney category, such as Xu > Duan, Ba Ji Tian, Lu Rong, Gui Ban, Gu Sui Bu, Gou Ji, and Du Zhong. > > Gotu Kola should help strengthen the connective tissue in the sockets. > It can be purchased as an extract. If you have a greenhouse, you could > grow it and drink the juice. > > - Bill Schoenbart > > --- In <%40>, > > < wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > Despite great hygiene and very clean teeth, I am experiencing rapid > gum recession and now also some bone loss around my teeth.� The > recession was pretty gradual until I started transitioning in to > menopause a year or so ago.� My dentist tells me she's never seen a > cleaner mouth, but is concerned about the recession, especially since > my front lower teeth are starting to loosen.� I will be seeing a > periodontist this week, but want to know if anyone knows of herbal > formulas that can assist in regeneration of both, gum tissue and > bone.� Apparently, this is genetic - my mom experienced the same > thing, and despite transplanting tissue from the roof of her mouth to > her gumline, she still ended up needing bone grafts for dental > implants. I'd love to avoid all of that, if possible.� Anyone have > good results with our medicine? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > Andrea Beth > > > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 > > Cottonwood, AZ� 86326 > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Andrea, I experienced gum recession during both my pregnancies. My dentist had me take 100 mgs of Co-Q 10, which seemed to help at the time. Also- there were articles on watermelon and lycopene content all over the news several months ago. When watermelon is warm, the lycopene content increases http://www.healthcastle.com/lycopene_watermelon.shtml anyway: on an herbal note: the teeth are governed by the kidneys: the gums by the st/LI/ yang ming. This brings to mind herbs such as sheng ma and sheng di ( and sheng di might be included in a formula to manage other menopausal sx. Just a few thoughts..... Cara O. Frank, R.OM, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. Six Fishes Healing Arts & President China Herb Company of the Chinese Herb Program Tai Sophia Institute of the Healing Arts 215-772-0770 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Andrea, What type of toothbrush do you use? and what kind of toothpaste? I can tell you from experience that receding gums can come back (quickly in fact). I had receding gums in my lower jaw (central incisor) for a year (same one as you I believe) I asked a holistic dentist who told me that the lower central incisor is prone to gum recession, because it : 1: collects gunk from the top teeth 2: is in the middle of the rest of the teeth, so gets pressed together, which leads to spacing 3: is usually brushed too hard, because we are especially concerned about the way we present ourselves to the public (these being in the front and center). I did research and found out that too much or overly strong tooth-brushing can lead to receding gums. You said that your dentist said that you have the cleanest teeth out there; you probably don't have any problems with poor hygiene, but may be scrubbing your teeth/ gums too hard. I switched to a soft toothbrush and changed my toothpaste: This one has goldenseal http://herbalprovider.stores..net/nature-s-gate-natural-whitening-toothpast\ e-ng8224.html This one has myrrh and propolis http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/205067/toms_of_maine_natural_antiplaque\ _toothpaste.html?cat=5 This one has neem http://www.auromere.com/natural_toothpaste.html I wish I could find a toothpaste that all three of these. The goldenseal works best for me. After a few weeks, my gums came back. It was like a miracle, because I thought I might have to get cosmetic gum surgery. I didn't change my diet or any any supplements or herbs. Hope this helps. K. http://worldental.org/gums/how-can-you-stop-receding-gums/ " In many cases, receding gums are caused by periodontal disease (gum disease). Three out of four adults have some form of it, and in most cases, it doesn't cause any pain and goes unnoticed. Also receding gums can be caused by improper tooth brushing (toothbrush abrasion). When you brush too vigorously, even supposedly soft bristles can drive gums from your teeth and eventually expose roots. In toothbrush abrasion, the enamel at the gum line is worn away by scrubbing the sides of the teeth in a washboard fashion. Over time, this horizontal brushing wears away the protective enamel, exposing the inner nerve-containing part of the tooth called dentin. [image: Picture of Receding Gums]Sometimes receding gums can be identified at first glance, but they may be detected by feeling the top of the teeth at the gum line. If the tooth feels notched at the gum line, then the gums are likely receding, thus hastening the decay of healthy teeth. Receding gums may also be caused by teeth that are misaligned, or by excessive plaque build-up at the gum line. Misaligned teeth can be addressed by an orthodontist through the application of braces<http://worldental.org/teeth/adult-dental-braces-for-correcting-teeth/>or other treatments. Regular cleanings to remove plaque build up as well as treatments for possible periodontal disease should be undertaken where appropriate. Also receding gums can be caused by a number of factors, including mouth injuries or trauma, smoking, oral piercing<http://worldental.org/gums/piercing-cause-gum-disease-bleeding/>, misaligned, gapped or crooked teeth<http://worldental.org/teeth/fix-crooked-teeth-with-dental-braces/> … " On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 1:45 AM, < wrote: > Thank you for your thoughts and time, Yehuda. I have just started > trading with a woman who does cranio-sacral work. It very well could be > relevant that I had an injury to my jaw in my 20's, which caused it to lock > and I had to pry it open with my hands. > > . > > > -- aka Mu bong Lim Father of Bhakti The Four Reliances: Do not rely upon the individual, but rely upon the teaching. As far as teachings go, do not rely upon the words alone, but rely upon the meaning that underlies them. Regarding the meaning, do not rely upon the provisional meaning alone, but rely upon the definitive meaning. And regarding the definitive meaning, do not rely upon ordinary consciousness, but rely upon wisdom awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Wow, John! A few weeks is truly amazing! I have been using a soft toothbrush for over 20 years, and have never been told I brush too hard (my mom does, and has removed all of her enamel). I have been following a cleaning regimen recommended by a periodontist about 15 years ago, and ever since, have super-clean teeth. I will check the toothpastes you recommend, though. I have been using Aquafresh Sensitive, since my teeth have always been very sensitive to hot and cold, but I will try the ones you recommend. Thank you, Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Mon, 7/21/08, <johnkokko wrote: <johnkokko Re: gum and bone loss Chinese Medicine Monday, July 21, 2008, 9:50 AM Andrea, What type of toothbrush do you use? and what kind of toothpaste? I can tell you from experience that receding gums can come back (quickly in fact). I had receding gums in my lower jaw (central incisor) for a year (same one as you I believe) I asked a holistic dentist who told me that the lower central incisor is prone to gum recession, because it : 1: collects gunk from the top teeth 2: is in the middle of the rest of the teeth, so gets pressed together, which leads to spacing 3: is usually brushed too hard, because we are especially concerned about the way we present ourselves to the public (these being in the front and center). I did research and found out that too much or overly strong tooth-brushing can lead to receding gums. You said that your dentist said that you have the cleanest teeth out there; you probably don't have any problems with poor hygiene, but may be scrubbing your teeth/ gums too hard. I switched to a soft toothbrush and changed my toothpaste: This one has goldenseal http://herbalprovider.stores..net/nature-s-gate-natural-whitening-toothpast\ e-ng8224.html This one has myrrh and propolis http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/205067/toms_of_maine_natural_antiplaque\ _toothpaste.html?cat=5 This one has neem http://www.auromere.com/natural_toothpaste.html I wish I could find a toothpaste that all three of these. The goldenseal works best for me. After a few weeks, my gums came back. It was like a miracle, because I thought I might have to get cosmetic gum surgery. I didn't change my diet or any any supplements or herbs. Hope this helps. K. http://worldental.org/gums/how-can-you-stop-receding-gums/ " In many cases, receding gums are caused by periodontal disease (gum disease). Three out of four adults have some form of it, and in most cases, it doesn't cause any pain and goes unnoticed. Also receding gums can be caused by improper tooth brushing (toothbrush abrasion). When you brush too vigorously, even supposedly soft bristles can drive gums from your teeth and eventually expose roots. In toothbrush abrasion, the enamel at the gum line is worn away by scrubbing the sides of the teeth in a washboard fashion. Over time, this horizontal brushing wears away the protective enamel, exposing the inner nerve-containing part of the tooth called dentin. [image: Picture of Receding Gums]Sometimes receding gums can be identified at first glance, but they may be detected by feeling the top of the teeth at the gum line. If the tooth feels notched at the gum line, then the gums are likely receding, thus hastening the decay of healthy teeth. Receding gums may also be caused by teeth that are misaligned, or by excessive plaque build-up at the gum line. Misaligned teeth can be addressed by an orthodontist through the application of braces<http://worldental.org/teeth/adult-dental-braces-for-correcting-teeth/>or other treatments. Regular cleanings to remove plaque build up as well as treatments for possible periodontal disease should be undertaken where appropriate. Also receding gums can be caused by a number of factors, including mouth injuries or trauma, smoking, oral piercing<http://worldental.org/gums/piercing-cause-gum-disease-bleeding/>, misaligned, gapped or crooked teeth<http://worldental.org/teeth/fix-crooked-teeth-with-dental-braces/> … " On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 1:45 AM, < wrote: > Thank you for your thoughts and time, Yehuda. I have just started > trading with a woman who does cranio-sacral work. It very well could be > relevant that I had an injury to my jaw in my 20's, which caused it to lock > and I had to pry it open with my hands. > > . > > > -- aka Mu bong Lim Father of Bhakti The Four Reliances: Do not rely upon the individual, but rely upon the teaching. As far as teachings go, do not rely upon the words alone, but rely upon the meaning that underlies them. Regarding the meaning, do not rely upon the provisional meaning alone, but rely upon the definitive meaning. And regarding the definitive meaning, do not rely upon ordinary consciousness, but rely upon wisdom awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Hi Kokko, Is Mo Han Lian related to Han Lian Cao? --- On Mon, 7/21/08, <johnkokko wrote: <johnkokko Re: Re: gum and bone loss Monday, July 21, 2008, 4:05 PM Hi Andrea, a dui yao for yin def heat (menopausal symptoms) could by Mo han lian and Nu zhen zi. They are not cloying, nourish the LV/KD yin, blackens the hair, are cooling and Mo han lian is specifically known for solidifying loose teeth. Also in the tonify yin category, Gui ban can (cold) can strengthen bones and anchor yang. Could these be added to the herbs that Bill suggested? K. On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 1:06 PM, < > wrote: > Thanks, Bill. I was also thinking about the bone-strengthening herbs, > but was concerned about them being too warming... Do you have experience > with using these for bone loss in > menopausal women with " power surges " ? > > > Andrea Beth > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > > --- On Mon, 7/21/08, bill_schoenbart <plantmed2 (AT) gmail (DOT) com<plantmed2%40gmail. com>> > wrote: > bill_schoenbart <plantmed2 (AT) gmail (DOT) com <plantmed2%40gmail. com>> > Re: gum and bone loss > < %40. com> > Monday, July 21, 2008, 12:47 PM > > > I have seen this in an otherwise healthy patient who had a very-low- > protein diet. In your case, if it's genetic, I would use the > bone-strengthening herbs in the Tonify Kidney category, such as Xu > Duan, Ba Ji Tian, Lu Rong, Gui Ban, Gu Sui Bu, Gou Ji, and Du Zhong. > > Gotu Kola should help strengthen the connective tissue in the sockets. > It can be purchased as an extract. If you have a greenhouse, you could > grow it and drink the juice. > > - Bill Schoenbart > > < %40. com>, > > <@.. .> wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > Despite great hygiene and very clean teeth, I am experiencing rapid > gum recession and now also some bone loss around my teeth.� The > recession was pretty gradual until I started transitioning in to > menopause a year or so ago.� My dentist tells me she's never seen a > cleaner mouth, but is concerned about the recession, especially since > my front lower teeth are starting to loosen.� I will be seeing a > periodontist this week, but want to know if anyone knows of herbal > formulas that can assist in regeneration of both, gum tissue and > bone.� Apparently, this is genetic - my mom experienced the same > thing, and despite transplanting tissue from the roof of her mouth to > her gumline, she still ended up needing bone grafts for dental > implants. I'd love to avoid all of that, if possible.� Anyone have > good results with our medicine? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > Andrea Beth > > > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 > > Cottonwood, AZ� 86326 > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Yes. I was very happy, because that kind of surgery runs in $$. I looked at it every morning and noticed it coming back with light pink gums growing underneath and over the teeth. My gums are sensitive to heat as I run yin def., so the cooling nature of the Goldenseal works best. I notice that when I drink alcohol or spicy food, that sometimes the gums can get slightly inflamed and bleed (gingivitis) In the past, I took Qing wei san from Mayway which helped a lot for that: Sheng ma, Huang lian (goldenthread same family as goldenseal), Mu dan pi, Sheng di huang, Dang gui. This might be a different situation than yours. Mine came from ST-LI and KD def. heat BTW: does anyone have a microsystems channel map of the teeth? I saw this before in the Voll system and there's also a TCM map. The top incisors are HT? (if you have a big space between your two front teeth, you are said in Asian traditions to be big hearted and also you spend money very quickly (because you share everything) The bottom center incisors are KD (if you have small bottom incisors, your may have less KD jing) I remember that the wisdom teeth are either HT or KD ? The molars are SP/LI The canines are LV/GB It would be good to see that map again. Best of luck, K. On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 10:35 AM, < wrote: > Wow, John! > > A few weeks is truly amazing! I have been using a soft toothbrush for over > 20 years, and have never been told I brush too hard (my mom does, and has > removed all of her enamel). I have been following a cleaning regimen > recommended by a periodontist about 15 years ago, and ever since, have > super-clean teeth. > > I will check the toothpastes you recommend, though. I have been using > Aquafresh Sensitive, since my teeth have always been very sensitive to hot > and cold, but I will try the ones you recommend. > > Thank you, > Andrea Beth > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > > > --- On Mon, 7/21/08, <johnkokko wrote: > <johnkokko > Re: gum and bone loss > Chinese Medicine > Monday, July 21, 2008, 9:50 AM > > Andrea, > > What type of toothbrush do you use? and what kind of toothpaste? > I can tell you from experience that receding gums can come back (quickly in > fact). > I had receding gums in my lower jaw (central incisor) for a year (same one > as you I believe) > I asked a holistic dentist who told me that the lower central incisor is > prone to gum recession, because it : > 1: collects gunk from the top teeth > 2: is in the middle of the rest of the teeth, so gets pressed together, > which leads to spacing > 3: is usually brushed too hard, because we are especially concerned about > the way we present ourselves to the public (these being in the front and > center). > > I did research and found out that too much or overly strong tooth-brushing > can lead to receding gums. > > You said that your dentist said that you have the cleanest teeth out there; > you probably don't have any problems with poor hygiene, but may be > scrubbing > your teeth/ gums too hard. > I switched to a soft toothbrush and changed my toothpaste: > This one has goldenseal > > http://herbalprovider.stores..net/nature-s-gate-natural-whitening-toothpast\ e-ng8224.html > > This one has myrrh and propolis > > http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/205067/toms_of_maine_natural_antiplaque\ _toothpaste.html?cat=5 > > This one has neem > http://www.auromere.com/natural_toothpaste.html > > I wish I could find a toothpaste that all three of these. The goldenseal > works best for me. > > After a few weeks, my gums came back. It was like a miracle, because I > thought I might have to get cosmetic gum surgery. > I didn't change my diet or any any supplements or herbs. > > Hope this helps. K. > > http://worldental.org/gums/how-can-you-stop-receding-gums/ > " In many cases, receding gums are caused by periodontal disease (gum > disease). Three out of four adults have some form of it, and in most cases, > it doesn't cause any pain and goes unnoticed. Also receding gums can be > caused by improper tooth brushing (toothbrush abrasion). > > When you brush too vigorously, even supposedly soft bristles can drive gums > from your teeth and eventually expose roots. > > In toothbrush abrasion, the enamel at the gum line is worn away by > scrubbing > the sides of the teeth in a washboard fashion. Over time, this horizontal > brushing wears away the protective enamel, exposing the inner > nerve-containing part of the tooth called dentin. > > [image: Picture of Receding Gums]Sometimes receding gums can be identified > at first glance, but they may be detected by feeling the top of the teeth > at > the gum line. If the tooth feels notched at the gum line, then the gums are > likely receding, thus hastening the decay of healthy teeth. > > Receding gums may also be caused by teeth that are misaligned, or by > excessive plaque build-up at the gum line. Misaligned teeth can be > addressed > by an orthodontist through the application of > braces< > http://worldental.org/teeth/adult-dental-braces-for-correcting-teeth/>or > other treatments. Regular cleanings to remove plaque build up as well > as > treatments for possible periodontal disease should be undertaken where > appropriate. > > Also receding gums can be caused by a number of factors, including mouth > injuries or trauma, smoking, oral > piercing<http://worldental.org/gums/piercing-cause-gum-disease-bleeding/>, > misaligned, gapped or crooked > teeth<http://worldental.org/teeth/fix-crooked-teeth-with-dental-braces/> > … " > > > > > > -- aka Mu bong Lim Father of Bhakti The Four Reliances: Do not rely upon the individual, but rely upon the teaching. As far as teachings go, do not rely upon the words alone, but rely upon the meaning that underlies them. Regarding the meaning, do not rely upon the provisional meaning alone, but rely upon the definitive meaning. And regarding the definitive meaning, do not rely upon ordinary consciousness, but rely upon wisdom awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 My gums are not sensitive to anything in particular, just a little irritated-feeling lately. I have no bleeding or inflammation, and avoid alcohol and spicy food, since I don't enjoy these. I do have some st and ki xu heat, to a lesser degree than you. I think of it more as simple waning of yin. I'd be interested to see those charts, too. Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Mon, 7/21/08, <johnkokko wrote: <johnkokko Re: gum and bone loss Chinese Medicine Monday, July 21, 2008, 11:56 AM Yes. I was very happy, because that kind of surgery runs in $$. I looked at it every morning and noticed it coming back with light pink gums growing underneath and over the teeth. My gums are sensitive to heat as I run yin def., so the cooling nature of the Goldenseal works best. I notice that when I drink alcohol or spicy food, that sometimes the gums can get slightly inflamed and bleed (gingivitis) In the past, I took Qing wei san from Mayway which helped a lot for that: Sheng ma, Huang lian (goldenthread same family as goldenseal), Mu dan pi, Sheng di huang, Dang gui. This might be a different situation than yours. Mine came from ST-LI and KD def. heat BTW: does anyone have a microsystems channel map of the teeth? I saw this before in the Voll system and there's also a TCM map. The top incisors are HT? (if you have a big space between your two front teeth, you are said in Asian traditions to be big hearted and also you spend money very quickly (because you share everything) The bottom center incisors are KD (if you have small bottom incisors, your may have less KD jing) I remember that the wisdom teeth are either HT or KD ? The molars are SP/LI The canines are LV/GB It would be good to see that map again. Best of luck, K. On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 10:35 AM, < wrote: > Wow, John! > > A few weeks is truly amazing! I have been using a soft toothbrush for over > 20 years, and have never been told I brush too hard (my mom does, and has > removed all of her enamel). I have been following a cleaning regimen > recommended by a periodontist about 15 years ago, and ever since, have > super-clean teeth. > > I will check the toothpastes you recommend, though. I have been using > Aquafresh Sensitive, since my teeth have always been very sensitive to hot > and cold, but I will try the ones you recommend. > > Thank you, > Andrea Beth > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > > > --- On Mon, 7/21/08, <johnkokko wrote: > <johnkokko > Re: gum and bone loss > Chinese Medicine > Monday, July 21, 2008, 9:50 AM > > Andrea, > > What type of toothbrush do you use? and what kind of toothpaste? > I can tell you from experience that receding gums can come back (quickly in > fact). > I had receding gums in my lower jaw (central incisor) for a year (same one > as you I believe) > I asked a holistic dentist who told me that the lower central incisor is > prone to gum recession, because it : > 1: collects gunk from the top teeth > 2: is in the middle of the rest of the teeth, so gets pressed together, > which leads to spacing > 3: is usually brushed too hard, because we are especially concerned about > the way we present ourselves to the public (these being in the front and > center). > > I did research and found out that too much or overly strong tooth-brushing > can lead to receding gums. > > You said that your dentist said that you have the cleanest teeth out there; > you probably don't have any problems with poor hygiene, but may be > scrubbing > your teeth/ gums too hard. > I switched to a soft toothbrush and changed my toothpaste: > This one has goldenseal > > http://herbalprovider.stores..net/nature-s-gate-natural-whitening-toothpast\ e-ng8224.html > > This one has myrrh and propolis > > http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/205067/toms_of_maine_natural_antiplaque\ _toothpaste.html?cat=5 > > This one has neem > http://www.auromere.com/natural_toothpaste.html > > I wish I could find a toothpaste that all three of these. The goldenseal > works best for me. > > After a few weeks, my gums came back. It was like a miracle, because I > thought I might have to get cosmetic gum surgery. > I didn't change my diet or any any supplements or herbs. > > Hope this helps. K. > > http://worldental.org/gums/how-can-you-stop-receding-gums/ > " In many cases, receding gums are caused by periodontal disease (gum > disease). Three out of four adults have some form of it, and in most cases, > it doesn't cause any pain and goes unnoticed. Also receding gums can be > caused by improper tooth brushing (toothbrush abrasion). > > When you brush too vigorously, even supposedly soft bristles can drive gums > from your teeth and eventually expose roots. > > In toothbrush abrasion, the enamel at the gum line is worn away by > scrubbing > the sides of the teeth in a washboard fashion. Over time, this horizontal > brushing wears away the protective enamel, exposing the inner > nerve-containing part of the tooth called dentin. > > [image: Picture of Receding Gums]Sometimes receding gums can be identified > at first glance, but they may be detected by feeling the top of the teeth > at > the gum line. If the tooth feels notched at the gum line, then the gums are > likely receding, thus hastening the decay of healthy teeth. > > Receding gums may also be caused by teeth that are misaligned, or by > excessive plaque build-up at the gum line. Misaligned teeth can be > addressed > by an orthodontist through the application of > braces< > http://worldental.org/teeth/adult-dental-braces-for-correcting-teeth/>or > other treatments. Regular cleanings to remove plaque build up as well > as > treatments for possible periodontal disease should be undertaken where > appropriate. > > Also receding gums can be caused by a number of factors, including mouth > injuries or trauma, smoking, oral > piercing<http://worldental.org/gums/piercing-cause-gum-disease-bleeding/>, > misaligned, gapped or crooked > teeth<http://worldental.org/teeth/fix-crooked-teeth-with-dental-braces/> > … " > > > > > > -- aka Mu bong Lim Father of Bhakti The Four Reliances: Do not rely upon the individual, but rely upon the teaching. As far as teachings go, do not rely upon the words alone, but rely upon the meaning that underlies them. Regarding the meaning, do not rely upon the provisional meaning alone, but rely upon the definitive meaning. And regarding the definitive meaning, do not rely upon ordinary consciousness, but rely upon wisdom awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 hey guys, did you know, Yunnan Baiyao now makes a toothpaste as well. If Kokko is right that you have a history of overbrushing the teeth, then it is a sort of traumatic injury to the gums and Yunnan Baiyao toothpaste maybe another helpful option? At ACTCM, i remember we were given those Voll charts in " history of medicine " class when the dentist came to speak. Certainly somebody more organized than me has those sitting tidily in a binder of old notes somewhere ;-). I am very disorganized with my notes. ~edith -- Edith Chan, L.Ac. Doctoral Fellow Ph: 415.298.5324 www.EdithChanAcupuncture.com On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 12:34 PM, < wrote: > My gums are not sensitive to anything in particular, just a little > irritated-feeling lately. I have no bleeding or inflammation, and avoid > alcohol and spicy food, since I don't enjoy these. I do have some st and ki > xu heat, to a lesser degree than you. I think of it more as simple waning > of yin. > > I'd be interested to see those charts, too. > > Andrea Beth > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > > > --- On Mon, 7/21/08, <johnkokko wrote: > <johnkokko > Re: gum and bone loss > Chinese Medicine > Monday, July 21, 2008, 11:56 AM > > Yes. I was very happy, because that kind of surgery runs in $$. > > I looked at it every morning and noticed it coming back with light pink > gums > growing underneath and over the teeth. > > My gums are sensitive to heat as I run yin def., so the cooling nature of > the Goldenseal works best. > I notice that when I drink alcohol or spicy food, that sometimes the gums > can get slightly inflamed and bleed (gingivitis) > In the past, I took Qing wei san from Mayway which helped a lot for that: > Sheng ma, Huang lian (goldenthread same family as goldenseal), Mu dan pi, > Sheng di huang, Dang gui. > > This might be a different situation than yours. Mine came from ST-LI and > KD > def. heat > > BTW: does anyone have a microsystems channel map of the teeth? > I saw this before in the Voll system and there's also a TCM map. > > The top incisors are HT? (if you have a big space between your two front > teeth, you are said in Asian traditions to be big hearted and also you > spend > money very quickly (because you share everything) > The bottom center incisors are KD (if you have small bottom incisors, your > may have less KD jing) > > I remember that the wisdom teeth are either HT or KD ? > The molars are SP/LI > The canines are LV/GB > It would be good to see that map again. > > Best of luck, > K. > > > > > On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 10:35 AM, < > wrote: > > > Wow, John! > > > > A few weeks is truly amazing! I have been using a soft toothbrush for > over > > 20 years, and have never been told I brush too hard (my mom does, and has > > removed all of her enamel). I have been following a cleaning regimen > > recommended by a periodontist about 15 years ago, and ever since, have > > super-clean teeth. > > > > I will check the toothpastes you recommend, though. I have been using > > Aquafresh Sensitive, since my teeth have always been very sensitive to > hot > > and cold, but I will try the ones you recommend. > > > > Thank you, > > Andrea Beth > > > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > --- On Mon, 7/21/08, <johnkokko wrote: > > <johnkokko > > Re: gum and bone loss > > Chinese Medicine > > Monday, July 21, 2008, 9:50 AM > > > > Andrea, > > > > What type of toothbrush do you use? and what kind of toothpaste? > > I can tell you from experience that receding gums can come back (quickly > in > > fact). > > I had receding gums in my lower jaw (central incisor) for a year (same > one > > as you I believe) > > I asked a holistic dentist who told me that the lower central incisor is > > prone to gum recession, because it : > > 1: collects gunk from the top teeth > > 2: is in the middle of the rest of the teeth, so gets pressed together, > > which leads to spacing > > 3: is usually brushed too hard, because we are especially concerned > about > > the way we present ourselves to the public (these being in the front and > > center). > > > > I did research and found out that too much or overly strong > tooth-brushing > > can lead to receding gums. > > > > You said that your dentist said that you have the cleanest teeth out > there; > > you probably don't have any problems with poor hygiene, but may be > > scrubbing > > your teeth/ gums too hard. > > I switched to a soft toothbrush and changed my toothpaste: > > This one has goldenseal > > > > > > http://herbalprovider.stores..net/nature-s-gate-natural-whitening-toothpast\ e-ng8224.html > > > > This one has myrrh and propolis > > > > > > http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/205067/toms_of_maine_natural_antiplaque\ _toothpaste.html?cat=5 > > > > This one has neem > > http://www.auromere.com/natural_toothpaste.html > > > > I wish I could find a toothpaste that all three of these. The goldenseal > > works best for me. > > > > After a few weeks, my gums came back. It was like a miracle, because I > > thought I might have to get cosmetic gum surgery. > > I didn't change my diet or any any supplements or herbs. > > > > Hope this helps. K. > > > > http://worldental.org/gums/how-can-you-stop-receding-gums/ > > " In many cases, receding gums are caused by periodontal disease (gum > > disease). Three out of four adults have some form of it, and in most > cases, > > it doesn't cause any pain and goes unnoticed. Also receding gums can > be > > caused by improper tooth brushing (toothbrush abrasion). > > > > When you brush too vigorously, even supposedly soft bristles can drive > gums > > from your teeth and eventually expose roots. > > > > In toothbrush abrasion, the enamel at the gum line is worn away by > > scrubbing > > the sides of the teeth in a washboard fashion. Over time, this horizontal > > brushing wears away the protective enamel, exposing the inner > > nerve-containing part of the tooth called dentin. > > > > [image: Picture of Receding Gums]Sometimes receding gums can be > identified > > at first glance, but they may be detected by feeling the top of the teeth > > at > > the gum line. If the tooth feels notched at the gum line, then the gums > are > > likely receding, thus hastening the decay of healthy teeth. > > > > Receding gums may also be caused by teeth that are misaligned, or by > > excessive plaque build-up at the gum line. Misaligned teeth can be > > addressed > > by an orthodontist through the application of > > braces< > > > http://worldental.org/teeth/adult-dental-braces-for-correcting-teeth/>or > > other treatments. Regular cleanings to remove plaque build up as well > > as > > treatments for possible periodontal disease should be undertaken where > > appropriate. > > > > Also receding gums can be caused by a number of factors, including mouth > > injuries or trauma, smoking, oral > > > piercing<http://worldental.org/gums/piercing-cause-gum-disease-bleeding/>, > > misaligned, gapped or crooked > > > teeth<http://worldental.org/teeth/fix-crooked-teeth-with-dental-braces/> > > … " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > aka Mu bong Lim > Father of Bhakti > > The Four Reliances: > Do not rely upon the individual, but rely upon the teaching. > As far as teachings go, do not rely upon the words alone, but rely upon the > meaning that underlies them. > Regarding the meaning, do not rely upon the provisional meaning alone, but > rely upon the definitive meaning. > And regarding the definitive meaning, do not rely upon ordinary > consciousness, but rely upon wisdom awareness. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Interesting about the toothpaste, however I have no bleeding. I'll file this away for future reference with patients who might, thought. Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Mon, 7/21/08, Edith Chan, L.Ac. <chineseherbs wrote: Edith Chan, L.Ac. <chineseherbs Re: gum and bone loss Chinese Medicine Monday, July 21, 2008, 1:10 PM hey guys, did you know, Yunnan Baiyao now makes a toothpaste as well. If Kokko is right that you have a history of overbrushing the teeth, then it is a sort of traumatic injury to the gums and Yunnan Baiyao toothpaste maybe another helpful option? At ACTCM, i remember we were given those Voll charts in " history of medicine " class when the dentist came to speak. Certainly somebody more organized than me has those sitting tidily in a binder of old notes somewhere ;-). I am very disorganized with my notes. ~edith -- Edith Chan, L.Ac. Doctoral Fellow Ph: 415.298.5324 www.EdithChanAcupuncture.com On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 12:34 PM, < wrote: > My gums are not sensitive to anything in particular, just a little > irritated-feeling lately. I have no bleeding or inflammation, and avoid > alcohol and spicy food, since I don't enjoy these. I do have some st and ki > xu heat, to a lesser degree than you. I think of it more as simple waning > of yin. > > I'd be interested to see those charts, too. > > Andrea Beth > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > > > --- On Mon, 7/21/08, <johnkokko wrote: > <johnkokko > Re: gum and bone loss > Chinese Medicine > Monday, July 21, 2008, 11:56 AM > > Yes. I was very happy, because that kind of surgery runs in $$. > > I looked at it every morning and noticed it coming back with light pink > gums > growing underneath and over the teeth. > > My gums are sensitive to heat as I run yin def., so the cooling nature of > the Goldenseal works best. > I notice that when I drink alcohol or spicy food, that sometimes the gums > can get slightly inflamed and bleed (gingivitis) > In the past, I took Qing wei san from Mayway which helped a lot for that: > Sheng ma, Huang lian (goldenthread same family as goldenseal), Mu dan pi, > Sheng di huang, Dang gui. > > This might be a different situation than yours. Mine came from ST-LI and > KD > def. heat > > BTW: does anyone have a microsystems channel map of the teeth? > I saw this before in the Voll system and there's also a TCM map. > > The top incisors are HT? (if you have a big space between your two front > teeth, you are said in Asian traditions to be big hearted and also you > spend > money very quickly (because you share everything) > The bottom center incisors are KD (if you have small bottom incisors, your > may have less KD jing) > > I remember that the wisdom teeth are either HT or KD ? > The molars are SP/LI > The canines are LV/GB > It would be good to see that map again. > > Best of luck, > K. > > > > > On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 10:35 AM, < > wrote: > > > Wow, John! > > > > A few weeks is truly amazing! I have been using a soft toothbrush for > over > > 20 years, and have never been told I brush too hard (my mom does, and has > > removed all of her enamel). I have been following a cleaning regimen > > recommended by a periodontist about 15 years ago, and ever since, have > > super-clean teeth. > > > > I will check the toothpastes you recommend, though. I have been using > > Aquafresh Sensitive, since my teeth have always been very sensitive to > hot > > and cold, but I will try the ones you recommend. > > > > Thank you, > > Andrea Beth > > > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > --- On Mon, 7/21/08, <johnkokko wrote: > > <johnkokko > > Re: gum and bone loss > > Chinese Medicine > > Monday, July 21, 2008, 9:50 AM > > > > Andrea, > > > > What type of toothbrush do you use? and what kind of toothpaste? > > I can tell you from experience that receding gums can come back (quickly > in > > fact). > > I had receding gums in my lower jaw (central incisor) for a year (same > one > > as you I believe) > > I asked a holistic dentist who told me that the lower central incisor is > > prone to gum recession, because it : > > 1: collects gunk from the top teeth > > 2: is in the middle of the rest of the teeth, so gets pressed together, > > which leads to spacing > > 3: is usually brushed too hard, because we are especially concerned > about > > the way we present ourselves to the public (these being in the front and > > center). > > > > I did research and found out that too much or overly strong > tooth-brushing > > can lead to receding gums. > > > > You said that your dentist said that you have the cleanest teeth out > there; > > you probably don't have any problems with poor hygiene, but may be > > scrubbing > > your teeth/ gums too hard. > > I switched to a soft toothbrush and changed my toothpaste: > > This one has goldenseal > > > > > > http://herbalprovider.stores..net/nature-s-gate-natural-whitening-toothpast\ e-ng8224.html > > > > This one has myrrh and propolis > > > > > > http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/205067/toms_of_maine_natural_antiplaque\ _toothpaste.html?cat=5 > > > > This one has neem > > http://www.auromere.com/natural_toothpaste.html > > > > I wish I could find a toothpaste that all three of these. The goldenseal > > works best for me. > > > > After a few weeks, my gums came back. It was like a miracle, because I > > thought I might have to get cosmetic gum surgery. > > I didn't change my diet or any any supplements or herbs. > > > > Hope this helps. K. > > > > http://worldental.org/gums/how-can-you-stop-receding-gums/ > > " In many cases, receding gums are caused by periodontal disease (gum > > disease). Three out of four adults have some form of it, and in most > cases, > > it doesn't cause any pain and goes unnoticed. Also receding gums can > be > > caused by improper tooth brushing (toothbrush abrasion). > > > > When you brush too vigorously, even supposedly soft bristles can drive > gums > > from your teeth and eventually expose roots. > > > > In toothbrush abrasion, the enamel at the gum line is worn away by > > scrubbing > > the sides of the teeth in a washboard fashion. Over time, this horizontal > > brushing wears away the protective enamel, exposing the inner > > nerve-containing part of the tooth called dentin. > > > > [image: Picture of Receding Gums]Sometimes receding gums can be > identified > > at first glance, but they may be detected by feeling the top of the teeth > > at > > the gum line. If the tooth feels notched at the gum line, then the gums > are > > likely receding, thus hastening the decay of healthy teeth. > > > > Receding gums may also be caused by teeth that are misaligned, or by > > excessive plaque build-up at the gum line. Misaligned teeth can be > > addressed > > by an orthodontist through the application of > > braces< > > > http://worldental.org/teeth/adult-dental-braces-for-correcting-teeth/>or > > other treatments. Regular cleanings to remove plaque build up as well > > as > > treatments for possible periodontal disease should be undertaken where > > appropriate. > > > > Also receding gums can be caused by a number of factors, including mouth > > injuries or trauma, smoking, oral > > > piercing<http://worldental.org/gums/piercing-cause-gum-disease-bleeding/>, > > misaligned, gapped or crooked > > > teeth<http://worldental.org/teeth/fix-crooked-teeth-with-dental-braces/> > > … " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > aka Mu bong Lim > Father of Bhakti > > The Four Reliances: > Do not rely upon the individual, but rely upon the teaching. > As far as teachings go, do not rely upon the words alone, but rely upon the > meaning that underlies them. > Regarding the meaning, do not rely upon the provisional meaning alone, but > rely upon the definitive meaning. > And regarding the definitive meaning, do not rely upon ordinary > consciousness, but rely upon wisdom awareness. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Edith, good to know about Yunnan bai yao toothpaste Main ingredient San qi ? In Korea, the main ingredient in most toothpastes was bamboo salt; my family told me that they would brush their teeth with regular salt and then wash their mouths out that way with a gargle. Incidentally, they use ocean water (salt water) to clean mouths, throats, nasal cavities in Hawaiian and Ayurvedic medicine as well. Also, I've seen herbal toothpaste that comes out of Korea that has Huang lian and Green tea (Lu cha) in it. K. On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 1:10 PM, Edith Chan, L.Ac. <chineseherbs wrote: > hey guys, > did you know, Yunnan Baiyao now makes a toothpaste as well. > If Kokko is right that you have a history of overbrushing the teeth, then > it > is a sort of traumatic injury to the gums and Yunnan Baiyao toothpaste > maybe > another helpful option? > > At ACTCM, i remember we were given those Voll charts in " history of > medicine " class when the dentist came to speak. Certainly somebody more > organized than me has those sitting tidily in a binder of old notes > somewhere ;-). I am very disorganized with my notes. > ~edith > > > > > -- > Edith Chan, L.Ac. > Doctoral Fellow > Ph: 415.298.5324 > www.EdithChanAcupuncture.com > > On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 12:34 PM, < > wrote: > > > My gums are not sensitive to anything in particular, just a little > > irritated-feeling lately. I have no bleeding or inflammation, and avoid > > alcohol and spicy food, since I don't enjoy these. I do have some st and > ki > > xu heat, to a lesser degree than you. I think of it more as simple > waning > > of yin. > > > > I'd be interested to see those charts, too. > > > > Andrea Beth > > > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > --- On Mon, 7/21/08, <johnkokko wrote: > > <johnkokko > > Re: gum and bone loss > > Chinese Medicine > > Monday, July 21, 2008, 11:56 AM > > > > Yes. I was very happy, because that kind of surgery runs in $$. > > > > I looked at it every morning and noticed it coming back with light pink > > gums > > growing underneath and over the teeth. > > > > My gums are sensitive to heat as I run yin def., so the cooling nature > of > > the Goldenseal works best. > > I notice that when I drink alcohol or spicy food, that sometimes the gums > > can get slightly inflamed and bleed (gingivitis) > > In the past, I took Qing wei san from Mayway which helped a lot for that: > > Sheng ma, Huang lian (goldenthread same family as goldenseal), Mu dan pi, > > Sheng di huang, Dang gui. > > > > This might be a different situation than yours. Mine came from ST-LI and > > KD > > def. heat > > > > BTW: does anyone have a microsystems channel map of the teeth? > > I saw this before in the Voll system and there's also a TCM map. > > > > The top incisors are HT? (if you have a big space between your two front > > teeth, you are said in Asian traditions to be big hearted and also you > > spend > > money very quickly (because you share everything) > > The bottom center incisors are KD (if you have small bottom incisors, > your > > may have less KD jing) > > > > I remember that the wisdom teeth are either HT or KD ? > > The molars are SP/LI > > The canines are LV/GB > > It would be good to see that map again. > > > > Best of luck, > > K. > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 10:35 AM, < > > > > wrote: > > > > > Wow, John! > > > > > > A few weeks is truly amazing! I have been using a soft toothbrush for > > over > > > 20 years, and have never been told I brush too hard (my mom does, and > has > > > removed all of her enamel). I have been following a cleaning regimen > > > recommended by a periodontist about 15 years ago, and ever since, have > > > super-clean teeth. > > > > > > I will check the toothpastes you recommend, though. I have been using > > > Aquafresh Sensitive, since my teeth have always been very sensitive to > > hot > > > and cold, but I will try the ones you recommend. > > > > > > Thank you, > > > Andrea Beth > > > > > > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > > 753 N. Main Street, Suite C-1 > > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 7/21/08, <johnkokko wrote: > > > <johnkokko > > > Re: gum and bone loss > > > Chinese Medicine > > > Monday, July 21, 2008, 9:50 AM > > > > > > Andrea, > > > > > > What type of toothbrush do you use? and what kind of toothpaste? > > > I can tell you from experience that receding gums can come back > (quickly > > in > > > fact). > > > I had receding gums in my lower jaw (central incisor) for a year (same > > one > > > as you I believe) > > > I asked a holistic dentist who told me that the lower central incisor > is > > > prone to gum recession, because it : > > > 1: collects gunk from the top teeth > > > 2: is in the middle of the rest of the teeth, so gets pressed > together, > > > which leads to spacing > > > 3: is usually brushed too hard, because we are especially concerned > > about > > > the way we present ourselves to the public (these being in the front > and > > > center). > > > > > > I did research and found out that too much or overly strong > > tooth-brushing > > > can lead to receding gums. > > > > > > You said that your dentist said that you have the cleanest teeth out > > there; > > > you probably don't have any problems with poor hygiene, but may be > > > scrubbing > > > your teeth/ gums too hard. > > > I switched to a soft toothbrush and changed my toothpaste: > > > This one has goldenseal > > > > > > > > > > > http://herbalprovider.stores..net/nature-s-gate-natural-whitening-toothpast\ e-ng8224.html > > > > > > This one has myrrh and propolis > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/205067/toms_of_maine_natural_antiplaque\ _toothpaste.html?cat=5 > > > > > > This one has neem > > > http://www.auromere.com/natural_toothpaste.html > > > > > > I wish I could find a toothpaste that all three of these. The > goldenseal > > > works best for me. > > > > > > After a few weeks, my gums came back. It was like a miracle, because > I > > > thought I might have to get cosmetic gum surgery. > > > I didn't change my diet or any any supplements or herbs. > > > > > > Hope this helps. K. > > > > > > http://worldental.org/gums/how-can-you-stop-receding-gums/ > > > " In many cases, receding gums are caused by periodontal disease (gum > > > disease). Three out of four adults have some form of it, and in most > > cases, > > > it doesn't cause any pain and goes unnoticed. Also receding gums can > > be > > > caused by improper tooth brushing (toothbrush abrasion). > > > > > > When you brush too vigorously, even supposedly soft bristles can drive > > gums > > > from your teeth and eventually expose roots. > > > > > > In toothbrush abrasion, the enamel at the gum line is worn away by > > > scrubbing > > > the sides of the teeth in a washboard fashion. Over time, this > horizontal > > > brushing wears away the protective enamel, exposing the inner > > > nerve-containing part of the tooth called dentin. > > > > > > [image: Picture of Receding Gums]Sometimes receding gums can be > > identified > > > at first glance, but they may be detected by feeling the top of the > teeth > > > at > > > the gum line. If the tooth feels notched at the gum line, then the gums > > are > > > likely receding, thus hastening the decay of healthy teeth. > > > > > > Receding gums may also be caused by teeth that are misaligned, or by > > > excessive plaque build-up at the gum line. Misaligned teeth can be > > > addressed > > > by an orthodontist through the application of > > > braces< > > > > > http://worldental.org/teeth/adult-dental-braces-for-correcting-teeth/>or > > > other treatments. Regular cleanings to remove plaque build up as well > > > as > > > treatments for possible periodontal disease should be undertaken where > > > appropriate. > > > > > > Also receding gums can be caused by a number of factors, including > mouth > > > injuries or trauma, smoking, oral > > > > > piercing<http://worldental.org/gums/piercing-cause-gum-disease-bleeding/ > >, > > > misaligned, gapped or crooked > > > > > teeth<http://worldental.org/teeth/fix-crooked-teeth-with-dental-braces/> > > > … " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > aka Mu bong Lim > > Father of Bhakti > > > > The Four Reliances: > > Do not rely upon the individual, but rely upon the teaching. > > As far as teachings go, do not rely upon the words alone, but rely upon > the > > meaning that underlies them. > > Regarding the meaning, do not rely upon the provisional meaning alone, > but > > rely upon the definitive meaning. > > And regarding the definitive meaning, do not rely upon ordinary > > consciousness, but rely upon wisdom awareness. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 CO-Q 10 is particularily helpful for inflammation, a larger dose is more effective ~125g/d or more. Often there is periodintal inflammation in this situation, probably associated with yin deficiency stomach heat. Pockets between the gum & tooth & gum tenderness show inflammation. If this is present a salt mouthwash is useful. Long term, a diet to support the kidneys is a sound strategy. Paul Pitchford would be a place to start. Tom Hurrle Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote: > > Andrea, > I experienced gum recession during both my pregnancies. My dentist had > me take 100 mgs of Co-Q 10, which seemed to help at the time. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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