Guest guest Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 notes to your questions in red, plus a few additions of my own to add to the growing list. thanks for taking on this endeavour. kath Some Questions for ABORM 1. How will you promote the certificate? Please give examples of specific activities/actions you plan to take. 2. Will your team, associates and supporters be advertising and do mailings to the [western medical] infertility community? 3. If you will be promoting it can [would] you share what it will say? 4. You are not offering educational programs, only a written exam, how can you assure the practitioner is competent in clinical practice [without providing any proof of accredited coursework & supervised clinical training in ORM]? 5. Does your certificate say it is a written exam only and does not represent the actual abilities of the practitioner? That your certificate in no way measures or approves them as a practitioner. 6. Can you assure us insurance companies will not place your certified people in a separate group in their books? Or is this your goal? 7. Have you talked with Insurance companies or brokers or any affiliated organizations about creating separate listings for practitioners of your certificate. 8. Have you consulted or discussed this idea with Licensing Agencies? For example, California State Board? If not why? 9. Has any licensing agency agreed with the stated desire claimed on your website front page statement of the goal of ABORM, has any accreditation organization confirmed the statements below? Specifically can you cite patient demand for a certificate demonstrating desire of knowledge beyond a License? 10. on your website you state that in the field of OM in the US there is not currently a board to oversee specialties. The National Commission for Certifying Agencies (NCCA) is the most widely accepted accreditation body. It evaluates certification programs based on predetermined and standardized criteria. This would be a great starting point for ABORM. Has ABORM contacted this organization for oversight, or does it plan to in the future? On 9/10/07, flyingstarsfengshui <flyingstarsfengshui wrote: > > Hello All: > > I am taking the initiative to compily a list of questions to submit > in our own time to ABORM for their written response, maybe this will > clear up their goal and future directions. > > Below are a few of my questions, please add important questions and > I will complile a list to be submitted, lets give it a week or so to > provide enough time for as many people to participate. > > I have no personal stake in ABORM, my goal is to understand clearly > how this certificate is to be marketed and the consequences to us as > practioners, it is logically to think Oncology, Diabetes, etc. will > be next. > > Some Questions for ABORM > > 1. How will you promote the certificate? > > 2. Will your team, associates and supporters be advertising and do > mailings to the infertility community? > > 3. If you will be promoting it can you share what it will say? > > 4. You are not offering educational programs, only a written exam, > how can you assure the practitioner is competent in clinical > practice. > > 5. Does your certificate say it is a written exam only and does not > represent the actual abilities of the practitioner? That your > certificate in no way measures or approves them as a practitioner. > > 6. Can you assure us insurance companies will not place your > certified people in a separate group in their books? Or is this your > goal? > > 7. Have you talked with Insurance companies or brokers or any > affiliated organizations about creating separate listings for > practitioners of your certificate. > > 8. Have you consulted or discussed this idea with Licensing > Agencies? For example, California State Board? If not why? > > 9. Has any licensing agency agreed with the stated desire claimed on > your website front page statement of the goal of ABORM, has any > accreditation organization confirmed the statements below? > Specifically can you site patient demand for a certificate > demonstrating desire of knowledge beyond a License? > > " The ABORM has been formed by leading professionals in Oriental > Reproductive Medicine who have come together voluntarily with a > resolve to meet the patient and physician demand for a demonstration > of knowledge of care in this field. We have recognized the need for > a certification to maintain that practitioners who are treating > patients with Oriental Medicine in the field of Reproductive Health > are doing so with an advanced knowledge and experience, and to allow > practitioners to demonstrate their knowledge through the process of > voluntary examination " > > > -- Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA Oriental Medicine Experienced, Dedicated, Effective Asheville Center For 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 kbartlett www.AcupunctureAsheville.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 My question: 11. Will ABORM Board members be receiving a salary? If so, how much? Will ABORM Board members receive financial support in any form other than a salary? David Lesseps, 3rd year student and cynic On Sep 10, 2007, at 9:10 PM, wrote: > notes to your questions in red, plus a few additions of my own to add > to the > growing list. thanks for taking on this endeavour. > > kath > > Some Questions for ABORM > > 1. How will you promote the certificate? Please give examples of > specific > activities/actions you plan to take. > > 2. Will your team, associates and supporters be advertising and do > mailings to the [western medical] infertility community? > > 3. If you will be promoting it can [would] you share what it will say? > > 4. You are not offering educational programs, only a written exam, > how can you assure the practitioner is competent in clinical > practice [without providing any proof of accredited coursework & > supervised > clinical training in ORM]? > > 5. Does your certificate say it is a written exam only and does not > represent the actual abilities of the practitioner? That your > certificate in no way measures or approves them as a practitioner. > > 6. Can you assure us insurance companies will not place your > certified people in a separate group in their books? Or is this your > goal? > > 7. Have you talked with Insurance companies or brokers or any > affiliated organizations about creating separate listings for > practitioners of your certificate. > > 8. Have you consulted or discussed this idea with Licensing > Agencies? For example, California State Board? If not why? > > 9. Has any licensing agency agreed with the stated desire claimed on > your website front page statement of the goal of ABORM, has any > accreditation organization confirmed the statements below? > Specifically can you cite patient demand for a certificate > demonstrating desire of knowledge beyond a License? > > 10. on your website you state that in the field of OM in the US there > is not > currently a board to oversee specialties. The National Commission for > Certifying Agencies (NCCA) is the most > widely accepted accreditation body. It evaluates certification > programs based on predetermined and standardized criteria. This > would be a great starting point for ABORM. Has ABORM contacted this > organization for oversight, or does it plan to in the future? > > On 9/10/07, flyingstarsfengshui <flyingstarsfengshui wrote: > > > > Hello All: > > > > I am taking the initiative to compily a list of questions to submit > > in our own time to ABORM for their written response, maybe this will > > clear up their goal and future directions. > > > > Below are a few of my questions, please add important questions and > > I will complile a list to be submitted, lets give it a week or so to > > provide enough time for as many people to participate. > > > > I have no personal stake in ABORM, my goal is to understand clearly > > how this certificate is to be marketed and the consequences to us as > > practioners, it is logically to think Oncology, Diabetes, etc. will > > be next. > > > > Some Questions for ABORM > > > > 1. How will you promote the certificate? > > > > 2. Will your team, associates and supporters be advertising and do > > mailings to the infertility community? > > > > 3. If you will be promoting it can you share what it will say? > > > > 4. You are not offering educational programs, only a written exam, > > how can you assure the practitioner is competent in clinical > > practice. > > > > 5. Does your certificate say it is a written exam only and does not > > represent the actual abilities of the practitioner? That your > > certificate in no way measures or approves them as a practitioner. > > > > 6. Can you assure us insurance companies will not place your > > certified people in a separate group in their books? Or is this your > > goal? > > > > 7. Have you talked with Insurance companies or brokers or any > > affiliated organizations about creating separate listings for > > practitioners of your certificate. > > > > 8. Have you consulted or discussed this idea with Licensing > > Agencies? For example, California State Board? If not why? > > > > 9. Has any licensing agency agreed with the stated desire claimed on > > your website front page statement of the goal of ABORM, has any > > accreditation organization confirmed the statements below? > > Specifically can you site patient demand for a certificate > > demonstrating desire of knowledge beyond a License? > > > > " The ABORM has been formed by leading professionals in Oriental > > Reproductive Medicine who have come together voluntarily with a > > resolve to meet the patient and physician demand for a demonstration > > of knowledge of care in this field. We have recognized the need for > > a certification to maintain that practitioners who are treating > > patients with Oriental Medicine in the field of Reproductive Health > > are doing so with an advanced knowledge and experience, and to allow > > practitioners to demonstrate their knowledge through the process of > > voluntary examination " > > > > > > > > -- > > Oriental Medicine > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > Asheville Center For > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > kbartlett > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Hey Flying David, maybe add this one: " In your statement you refer to " advanced knowledge and experience " . The exam will ostensibly provide the knowledge, but what will you do about experience? If there will not be graded certificates based on level of experience, perhaps you should remove the word " experience " from your mission statement. " I just can't get past my idea that experience is definitive. Hugo flyingstarsfengshui <flyingstarsfengshui Chinese Medicine Monday, 10 September, 2007 8:41:42 PM ABORM TCM Community Questions Hello All: I am taking the initiative to compily a list of questions to submit in our own time to ABORM for their written response, maybe this will clear up their goal and future directions. Below are a few of my questions, please add important questions and I will complile a list to be submitted, lets give it a week or so to provide enough time for as many people to participate. I have no personal stake in ABORM, my goal is to understand clearly how this certificate is to be marketed and the consequences to us as practioners, it is logically to think Oncology, Diabetes, etc. will be next. Some Questions for ABORM 1. How will you promote the certificate? 2. Will your team, associates and supporters be advertising and do mailings to the infertility community? 3. If you will be promoting it can you share what it will say? 4. You are not offering educational programs, only a written exam, how can you assure the practitioner is competent in clinical practice. 5. Does your certificate say it is a written exam only and does not represent the actual abilities of the practitioner? That your certificate in no way measures or approves them as a practitioner. 6. Can you assure us insurance companies will not place your certified people in a separate group in their books? Or is this your goal? 7. Have you talked with Insurance companies or brokers or any affiliated organizations about creating separate listings for practitioners of your certificate. 8. Have you consulted or discussed this idea with Licensing Agencies? For example, California State Board? If not why? 9. Has any licensing agency agreed with the stated desire claimed on your website front page statement of the goal of ABORM, has any accreditation organization confirmed the statements below? Specifically can you site patient demand for a certificate demonstrating desire of knowledge beyond a License? " The ABORM has been formed by leading professionals in Oriental Reproductive Medicine who have come together voluntarily with a resolve to meet the patient and physician demand for a demonstration of knowledge of care in this field. We have recognized the need for a certification to maintain that practitioners who are treating patients with Oriental Medicine in the field of Reproductive Health are doing so with an advanced knowledge and experience, and to allow practitioners to demonstrate their knowledge through the process of voluntary examination " <!-- #ygrp-mkp{ border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:14px 0px;padding:0px 14px;} #ygrp-mkp hr{ border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrp-mkp #hd{ color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:bold;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0px;} #ygrp-mkp #ads{ margin-bottom:10px;} #ygrp-mkp .ad{ padding:0 0;} #ygrp-mkp .ad a{ color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} --> <!-- #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{ font-family:Arial;} #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{ margin:10px 0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{ margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;} --> <!-- #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;} #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;} #ygrp-text{ font-family:Georgia; } #ygrp-text p{ margin:0 0 1em 0;} #ygrp-tpmsgs{ font-family:Arial; clear:both;} #ygrp-vitnav{ padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;} #ygrp-vitnav a{ padding:0 1px;} #ygrp-actbar{ clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;} #ygrp-actbar .left{ float:left;white-space:nowrap;} ..bld{font-weight:bold;} #ygrp-grft{ font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;} #ygrp-ft{ font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666; padding:5px 0; } #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{ padding-bottom:10px;} #ygrp-vital{ background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;} #ygrp-vital #vithd{ font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:upp\ ercase;} #ygrp-vital ul{ padding:0;margin:2px 0;} #ygrp-vital ul li{ list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee; } #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{ font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-align:right;padding-ri\ ght:.5em;} #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{ font-weight:bold;} #ygrp-vital a{ text-decoration:none;} #ygrp-vital a:hover{ text-decoration:underline;} #ygrp-sponsor #hd{ color:#999;font-size:77%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov{ padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{ padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{ list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{ text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;} #ygrp-sponsor #nc{ background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ padding:8px 0;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-height:122%\ ;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ text-decoration:none;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ text-decoration:underline;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ margin:0;} o{font-size:0;} ..MsoNormal{ margin:0 0 0 0;} #ygrp-text tt{ font-size:120%;} blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;} ..replbq{margin:4;} --> _________ Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? 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Guest guest Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 I hope all these questions are going to be asked of the other two specialty boards, I'd hate for this to turn into a witch hunt on ABORN. Seems only fair to me. Gordon. On 9/11/07, davelcorp <davelcorp wrote: > > My question: > > 11. Will ABORM Board members be receiving a salary? If so, how much? > Will ABORM Board members receive financial support in any form other > than a salary? > > David Lesseps, 3rd year student and cynic > > > On Sep 10, 2007, at 9:10 PM, wrote: > > > notes to your questions in red, plus a few additions of my own to add > > to the > > growing list. thanks for taking on this endeavour. > > > > kath > > > > Some Questions for ABORM > > > > 1. How will you promote the certificate? Please give examples of > > specific > > activities/actions you plan to take. > > > > 2. Will your team, associates and supporters be advertising and do > > mailings to the [western medical] infertility community? > > > > 3. If you will be promoting it can [would] you share what it will say? > > > > 4. You are not offering educational programs, only a written exam, > > how can you assure the practitioner is competent in clinical > > practice [without providing any proof of accredited coursework & > > supervised > > clinical training in ORM]? > > > > 5. Does your certificate say it is a written exam only and does not > > represent the actual abilities of the practitioner? That your > > certificate in no way measures or approves them as a practitioner. > > > > 6. Can you assure us insurance companies will not place your > > certified people in a separate group in their books? Or is this your > > goal? > > > > 7. Have you talked with Insurance companies or brokers or any > > affiliated organizations about creating separate listings for > > practitioners of your certificate. > > > > 8. Have you consulted or discussed this idea with Licensing > > Agencies? For example, California State Board? If not why? > > > > 9. Has any licensing agency agreed with the stated desire claimed on > > your website front page statement of the goal of ABORM, has any > > accreditation organization confirmed the statements below? > > Specifically can you cite patient demand for a certificate > > demonstrating desire of knowledge beyond a License? > > > > 10. on your website you state that in the field of OM in the US there > > is not > > currently a board to oversee specialties. The National Commission for > > Certifying Agencies (NCCA) is the most > > widely accepted accreditation body. It evaluates certification > > programs based on predetermined and standardized criteria. This > > would be a great starting point for ABORM. Has ABORM contacted this > > organization for oversight, or does it plan to in the future? > > > > On 9/10/07, flyingstarsfengshui <flyingstarsfengshui<flyingstarsfengshui%40>> > wrote: > > > > > > Hello All: > > > > > > I am taking the initiative to compily a list of questions to submit > > > in our own time to ABORM for their written response, maybe this will > > > clear up their goal and future directions. > > > > > > Below are a few of my questions, please add important questions and > > > I will complile a list to be submitted, lets give it a week or so to > > > provide enough time for as many people to participate. > > > > > > I have no personal stake in ABORM, my goal is to understand clearly > > > how this certificate is to be marketed and the consequences to us as > > > practioners, it is logically to think Oncology, Diabetes, etc. will > > > be next. > > > > > > Some Questions for ABORM > > > > > > 1. How will you promote the certificate? > > > > > > 2. Will your team, associates and supporters be advertising and do > > > mailings to the infertility community? > > > > > > 3. If you will be promoting it can you share what it will say? > > > > > > 4. You are not offering educational programs, only a written exam, > > > how can you assure the practitioner is competent in clinical > > > practice. > > > > > > 5. Does your certificate say it is a written exam only and does not > > > represent the actual abilities of the practitioner? That your > > > certificate in no way measures or approves them as a practitioner. > > > > > > 6. Can you assure us insurance companies will not place your > > > certified people in a separate group in their books? Or is this your > > > goal? > > > > > > 7. Have you talked with Insurance companies or brokers or any > > > affiliated organizations about creating separate listings for > > > practitioners of your certificate. > > > > > > 8. Have you consulted or discussed this idea with Licensing > > > Agencies? For example, California State Board? If not why? > > > > > > 9. Has any licensing agency agreed with the stated desire claimed on > > > your website front page statement of the goal of ABORM, has any > > > accreditation organization confirmed the statements below? > > > Specifically can you site patient demand for a certificate > > > demonstrating desire of knowledge beyond a License? > > > > > > " The ABORM has been formed by leading professionals in Oriental > > > Reproductive Medicine who have come together voluntarily with a > > > resolve to meet the patient and physician demand for a demonstration > > > of knowledge of care in this field. We have recognized the need for > > > a certification to maintain that practitioners who are treating > > > patients with Oriental Medicine in the field of Reproductive Health > > > are doing so with an advanced knowledge and experience, and to allow > > > practitioners to demonstrate their knowledge through the process of > > > voluntary examination " > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Oriental Medicine > > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > > > Asheville Center For > > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > > kbartlett<kbartlett%40AcupunctureAsheville.com> > > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 David T, Kath, and Dave L, Thanks for taking on this project. I don't know if I am a hardcore reductionist freak (as Hugo has perhaps speculated) but I am certainly a pragmatist. So, I really appreciate all efforts to dispel confusion, reduce speculative sensationalism and get to the facts. So, thanks for (finally) taking your questions about the ABORM to the ABORM. I hope this will both quell the furor over what ABORM may or may not be, and open up some new criticisms that are based on real (and not imagined) problems. Please add my question to the list: What role will the ABORM have in conducting or funding new research on the role of TCM and acupuncture in reprodoctive medicine? I know that I have sometimes taken a combative tone in this debate, and that my writing style is often terse, but I am sincere when I applaud this, perhaps overdue, effort to get the answers from the horse's mouth. Thanks again, David Karchmer Chinese Medicine , davelcorp <davelcorp wrote: > > My question: > > 11. Will ABORM Board members be receiving a salary? If so, how much? > Will ABORM Board members receive financial support in any form other > than a salary? > > David Lesseps, 3rd year student and cynic > > On Sep 10, 2007, at 9:10 PM, wrote: > > > notes to your questions in red, plus a few additions of my own to add > > to the > > growing list. thanks for taking on this endeavour. > > > > kath > > > > Some Questions for ABORM > > > > 1. How will you promote the certificate? Please give examples of > > specific > > activities/actions you plan to take. > > > > 2. Will your team, associates and supporters be advertising and do > > mailings to the [western medical] infertility community? > > > > 3. If you will be promoting it can [would] you share what it will say? > > > > 4. You are not offering educational programs, only a written exam, > > how can you assure the practitioner is competent in clinical > > practice [without providing any proof of accredited coursework & > > supervised > > clinical training in ORM]? > > > > 5. Does your certificate say it is a written exam only and does not > > represent the actual abilities of the practitioner? That your > > certificate in no way measures or approves them as a practitioner. > > > > 6. Can you assure us insurance companies will not place your > > certified people in a separate group in their books? Or is this your > > goal? > > > > 7. Have you talked with Insurance companies or brokers or any > > affiliated organizations about creating separate listings for > > practitioners of your certificate. > > > > 8. Have you consulted or discussed this idea with Licensing > > Agencies? For example, California State Board? If not why? > > > > 9. Has any licensing agency agreed with the stated desire claimed on > > your website front page statement of the goal of ABORM, has any > > accreditation organization confirmed the statements below? > > Specifically can you cite patient demand for a certificate > > demonstrating desire of knowledge beyond a License? > > > > 10. on your website you state that in the field of OM in the US there > > is not > > currently a board to oversee specialties. The National Commission for > > Certifying Agencies (NCCA) is the most > > widely accepted accreditation body. It evaluates certification > > programs based on predetermined and standardized criteria. This > > would be a great starting point for ABORM. Has ABORM contacted this > > organization for oversight, or does it plan to in the future? > > > > On 9/10/07, flyingstarsfengshui <flyingstarsfengshui wrote: > > > > > > Hello All: > > > > > > I am taking the initiative to compily a list of questions to submit > > > in our own time to ABORM for their written response, maybe this will > > > clear up their goal and future directions. > > > > > > Below are a few of my questions, please add important questions and > > > I will complile a list to be submitted, lets give it a week or so to > > > provide enough time for as many people to participate. > > > > > > I have no personal stake in ABORM, my goal is to understand clearly > > > how this certificate is to be marketed and the consequences to us as > > > practioners, it is logically to think Oncology, Diabetes, etc. will > > > be next. > > > > > > Some Questions for ABORM > > > > > > 1. How will you promote the certificate? > > > > > > 2. Will your team, associates and supporters be advertising and do > > > mailings to the infertility community? > > > > > > 3. If you will be promoting it can you share what it will say? > > > > > > 4. You are not offering educational programs, only a written exam, > > > how can you assure the practitioner is competent in clinical > > > practice. > > > > > > 5. Does your certificate say it is a written exam only and does not > > > represent the actual abilities of the practitioner? That your > > > certificate in no way measures or approves them as a practitioner. > > > > > > 6. Can you assure us insurance companies will not place your > > > certified people in a separate group in their books? Or is this your > > > goal? > > > > > > 7. Have you talked with Insurance companies or brokers or any > > > affiliated organizations about creating separate listings for > > > practitioners of your certificate. > > > > > > 8. Have you consulted or discussed this idea with Licensing > > > Agencies? For example, California State Board? If not why? > > > > > > 9. Has any licensing agency agreed with the stated desire claimed on > > > your website front page statement of the goal of ABORM, has any > > > accreditation organization confirmed the statements below? > > > Specifically can you site patient demand for a certificate > > > demonstrating desire of knowledge beyond a License? > > > > > > " The ABORM has been formed by leading professionals in Oriental > > > Reproductive Medicine who have come together voluntarily with a > > > resolve to meet the patient and physician demand for a demonstration > > > of knowledge of care in this field. We have recognized the need for > > > a certification to maintain that practitioners who are treating > > > patients with Oriental Medicine in the field of Reproductive Health > > > are doing so with an advanced knowledge and experience, and to allow > > > practitioners to demonstrate their knowledge through the process of > > > voluntary examination " > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Oriental Medicine > > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > > > Asheville Center For > > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > > kbartlett > > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 You're so sensitive! To deal with your *speculation* and for the comfort of the list, I was not referring to anybody in particular with that bit of smarmy humour. Hugo David Karchmer <acuprof David T, Kath, and Dave L, Thanks for taking on this project. I don't know if I am a hardcore reductionist freak (as Hugo has perhaps speculated) David Karchmer <!-- #ygrp-mkp{ border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:14px 0px;padding:0px 14px;} #ygrp-mkp hr{ border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrp-mkp #hd{ color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:bold;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0px;} #ygrp-mkp #ads{ margin-bottom:10px;} #ygrp-mkp .ad{ padding:0 0;} #ygrp-mkp .ad a{ color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} --> <!-- #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{ font-family:Arial;} #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{ margin:10px 0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{ margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;} --> <!-- #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;} #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;} #ygrp-text{ font-family:Georgia; } #ygrp-text p{ margin:0 0 1em 0;} #ygrp-tpmsgs{ font-family:Arial; clear:both;} #ygrp-vitnav{ padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;} #ygrp-vitnav a{ padding:0 1px;} #ygrp-actbar{ clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;} #ygrp-actbar .left{ float:left;white-space:nowrap;} ..bld{font-weight:bold;} #ygrp-grft{ font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;} #ygrp-ft{ font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666; padding:5px 0; } #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{ padding-bottom:10px;} #ygrp-vital{ background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;} #ygrp-vital #vithd{ font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:upp\ ercase;} #ygrp-vital ul{ padding:0;margin:2px 0;} #ygrp-vital ul li{ list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee; } #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{ font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-align:right;padding-ri\ ght:.5em;} #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{ font-weight:bold;} #ygrp-vital a{ text-decoration:none;} #ygrp-vital a:hover{ text-decoration:underline;} #ygrp-sponsor #hd{ color:#999;font-size:77%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov{ padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{ padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{ list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{ text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;} #ygrp-sponsor #nc{ background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ padding:8px 0;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-height:122%\ ;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ text-decoration:none;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ text-decoration:underline;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ margin:0;} o{font-size:0;} ..MsoNormal{ margin:0 0 0 0;} #ygrp-text tt{ font-size:120%;} blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;} ..replbq{margin:4;} --> _________ Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit For Good http://uk.promotions./forgood/environment.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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