My prediction of how Specialty Certificates will influence our profession

September 9, 2007

And then, the Taoist masters of old will rise from the earth and

engage in a cosmic battle for supremecy with the ghosts of western

bio-medicine's hallowed founders.

The battle will rage for 16 generations, and the earth will grow as

black as pitch. Dark times will engulf the planet for a thousand

years. And the tears of children will fill the seas.

--- In

Chinese Medicine , " flyingstarsfengshui "

<flyingstarsfengshui wrote:

>

> My biggest concern is how this ABORM Certificate is going to be

> marketed.

>

> I predict the following.

>

> This Board will promote the certificate to their network of

> Physicians, Medical Institutions and related areas, they will

> attempt to persuade them to select or seek out " Certified "

> practitioners.

>

> They will write articles in journals and do advertising promoting

> the value of their certification creating the impression they are

> more qualified, creating lots of competition based on a

certificate

> not a license.

>

> They will do this in a big way.

>

> Non-Certified practioners will develop a counter program as to how

> they can address this issue, including seeking licensing agencies

> opinions on the value of these kind of certificates as the basis

of

> determining compentency, skill and the ability to practice. It

will

> set a trend of practioners and organizations to aggresively market

> their certifications, whether a board or not.

>

> Insurance companies (the one's that work with Acupuncturists and

act

> as a middle person) will begin to list these certified people

> separately by their area of specialty, separate from other

> practitioners, regardless of skill level.

>

> Insurance companies with networks will require these people for

> specific treatments and not accept others.

>

> Insurance companies will dictate Acupuncture protocols based on

> their protocols.

>

> This will only be the beginning of Boards and the attempt to

> distinguish practitioner from practitioner based on a written exam

> with no licensing agency approval.

>

> Regards,

>

> David

>

September 9, 2007

David, you are not showing a lot of congruence. Your comment below does not fit

with your recent opinions regarding " polemical " comments versus useful ones. Not

sure if your below comment is appropriate.

Hugo

David Karchmer <acuprof

Chinese Medicine

Saturday, 8 September, 2007 10:06:15 PM

Re: My prediction of how Specialty Certificates will influence

our profession

And then, the Taoist masters of old will rise from the earth and

engage in a cosmic battle for supremecy with the ghosts of western

bio-medicine' s hallowed founders.

The battle will rage for 16 generations, and the earth will grow as

black as pitch. Dark times will engulf the planet for a thousand

years. And the tears of children will fill the seas.

--- In

Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , " flyingstarsfengshu i "

<flyingstarsfengshu i wrote:

>

> My biggest concern is how this ABORM Certificate is going to be

> marketed.

>

> I predict the following.

>

> This Board will promote the certificate to their network of

> Physicians, Medical Institutions and related areas, they will

> attempt to persuade them to select or seek out " Certified "

> practitioners.

>

> They will write articles in journals and do advertising promoting

> the value of their certification creating the impression they are

> more qualified, creating lots of competition based on a

certificate

> not a license.

>

> They will do this in a big way.

>

> Non-Certified practioners will develop a counter program as to how

> they can address this issue, including seeking licensing agencies

> opinions on the value of these kind of certificates as the basis

of

> determining compentency, skill and the ability to practice. It

will

> set a trend of practioners and organizations to aggresively market

> their certifications, whether a board or not.

>

> Insurance companies (the one's that work with Acupuncturists and

act

> as a middle person) will begin to list these certified people

> separately by their area of specialty, separate from other

> practitioners, regardless of skill level.

>

> Insurance companies with networks will require these people for

> specific treatments and not accept others.

>

> Insurance companies will dictate Acupuncture protocols based on

> their protocols.

>

> This will only be the beginning of Boards and the attempt to

> distinguish practitioner from practitioner based on a written exam

> with no licensing agency approval.

>

> Regards,

>

> David

>

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_________

Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit For Good

http://uk.promotions./forgood/environment.html

September 9, 2007

Well Hugo,

You may be right on this one. As hard as I try to stay above the

fray, when someone lobs a softball, sometimes the temptation is just

too great and I have to take a swing!

I thought it was pretty funny.... but maybe that's just the way I am

warped.

David K

Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro

<subincor wrote:

>

> David, you are not showing a lot of congruence. Your comment

below does not fit with your recent opinions regarding " polemical "

comments versus useful ones. Not sure if your below comment is

appropriate.

> Hugo

>

> David Karchmer <acuprof

> Chinese Medicine

> Saturday, 8 September, 2007 10:06:15 PM

> Re: My prediction of how Specialty Certificates

will influence our profession

>

And then, the Taoist masters of old will rise from the

earth and

>

> engage in a cosmic battle for supremecy with the ghosts of western

>

> bio-medicine' s hallowed founders.

>

> The battle will rage for 16 generations, and the earth will grow

as

>

> black as pitch. Dark times will engulf the planet for a thousand

>

> years. And the tears of children will fill the seas.

>

> --- In

>

> Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine @.

com, " flyingstarsfengshu i "

>

> <flyingstarsfengshu i wrote:

>

> >

>

> > My biggest concern is how this ABORM Certificate is going to be

>

> > marketed.

>

> >

>

> > I predict the following.

>

> >

>

> > This Board will promote the certificate to their network of

>

> > Physicians, Medical Institutions and related areas, they will

>

> > attempt to persuade them to select or seek out " Certified "

>

> > practitioners.

>

> >

>

> > They will write articles in journals and do advertising

promoting

>

> > the value of their certification creating the impression they

are

>

> > more qualified, creating lots of competition based on a

>

> certificate

>

> > not a license.

>

> >

>

> > They will do this in a big way.

>

> >

>

> > Non-Certified practioners will develop a counter program as to

how

>

> > they can address this issue, including seeking licensing

agencies

>

> > opinions on the value of these kind of certificates as the basis

>

> of

>

> > determining compentency, skill and the ability to practice. It

>

> will

>

> > set a trend of practioners and organizations to aggresively

market

>

> > their certifications, whether a board or not.

>

> >

>

> > Insurance companies (the one's that work with Acupuncturists and

>

> act

>

> > as a middle person) will begin to list these certified people

>

> > separately by their area of specialty, separate from other

>

> > practitioners, regardless of skill level.

>

> >

>

> > Insurance companies with networks will require these people for

>

> > specific treatments and not accept others.

>

> >

>

> > Insurance companies will dictate Acupuncture protocols based on

>

> > their protocols.

>

> >

>

> > This will only be the beginning of Boards and the attempt to

>

> > distinguish practitioner from practitioner based on a written

exam

>

> > with no licensing agency approval.

>

> >

>

> > Regards,

>

> >

>

> > David

>

> >

>

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_________

> Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit For

Good http://uk.promotions./forgood/environment.html

>

September 9, 2007

Will these crying children be the progeny of parents who achieved pregnancy with

the help of ABORM-certified acupuncturists? Sorry, I just couldn't resist - the

question was just begging to be asked!

Andrea Beth

>

> David Karchmer

> Chinese Medicine

> Saturday, 8 September, 2007 10:06:15 PM

> Re: My prediction of how Specialty Certificates

will influence our profession

>

> And then, the Taoist masters of old will rise from the

earth and

>

> engage in a cosmic battle for supremecy with the ghosts of western

>

> bio-medicine' s hallowed founders.

>

> The battle will rage for 16 generations, and the earth will grow

as

>

> black as pitch. Dark times will engulf the planet for a thousand

>

> years. And the tears of children will fill the seas.

>

> --- In

>

> Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine @.

com, " flyingstarsfengshu i "

>

> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > My biggest concern is how this ABORM Certificate is going to be

>

> > marketed.

>

> >

>

> > I predict the following.

>

> >

>

> > This Board will promote the certificate to their network of

>

> > Physicians, Medical Institutions and related areas, they will

>

> > attempt to persuade them to select or seek out " Certified "

>

> > practitioners.

>

> >

>

> > They will write articles in journals and do advertising

promoting

>

> > the value of their certification creating the impression they

are

>

> > more qualified, creating lots of competition based on a

>

> certificate

>

> > not a license.

>

> >

>

> > They will do this in a big way.

>

> >

>

> > Non-Certified practioners will develop a counter program as to

how

>

> > they can address this issue, including seeking licensing

agencies

>

> > opinions on the value of these kind of certificates as the basis

>

> of

>

> > determining compentency, skill and the ability to practice. It

>

> will

>

> > set a trend of practioners and organizations to aggresively

market

>

> > their certifications, whether a board or not.

>

> >

>

> > Insurance companies (the one's that work with Acupuncturists and

>

> act

>

> > as a middle person) will begin to list these certified people

>

> > separately by their area of specialty, separate from other

>

> > practitioners, regardless of skill level.

>

> >

>

> > Insurance companies with networks will require these people for

>

> > specific treatments and not accept others.

>

> >

>

> > Insurance companies will dictate Acupuncture protocols based on

>

> > their protocols.

>

> >

>

> > This will only be the beginning of Boards and the attempt to

>

> > distinguish practitioner from practitioner based on a written

exam

>

> > with no licensing agency approval.

>

> >

>

> > Regards,

>

> >

>

> > David

>

> >

>

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>

_________

> Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit For

Good http://uk.promotions./forgood/environment.html

>

September 12, 2007

i thought it was lol funny, too.

thanks for the humorous break from all this heavy bickering.

k

On 9/9/07, David Karchmer <acuprof wrote:

>

> Well Hugo,

>

> You may be right on this one. As hard as I try to stay above the

> fray, when someone lobs a softball, sometimes the temptation is just

> too great and I have to take a swing!

>

> I thought it was pretty funny.... but maybe that's just the way I am

> warped.

>

> David K

> --- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> Hugo Ramiro

> <subincor wrote:

> >

> > David, you are not showing a lot of congruence. Your comment

> below does not fit with your recent opinions regarding " polemical "

> comments versus useful ones. Not sure if your below comment is

> appropriate.

> > Hugo

> >

> > David Karchmer <acuprof

> > To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> > Saturday, 8 September, 2007 10:06:15 PM

> > Re: My prediction of how Specialty Certificates

> will influence our profession

> >

> > And then, the Taoist masters of old will rise from the

> earth and

> >

> > engage in a cosmic battle for supremecy with the ghosts of western

> >

> > bio-medicine' s hallowed founders.

> >

> > The battle will rage for 16 generations, and the earth will grow

> as

> >

> > black as pitch. Dark times will engulf the planet for a thousand

> >

> > years. And the tears of children will fill the seas.

> >

> > --- In

> >

> > Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine @.

> com, " flyingstarsfengshu i "

> >

> > <flyingstarsfengshu i wrote:

> >

> > >

> >

> > > My biggest concern is how this ABORM Certificate is going to be

> >

> > > marketed.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > I predict the following.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > This Board will promote the certificate to their network of

> >

> > > Physicians, Medical Institutions and related areas, they will

> >

> > > attempt to persuade them to select or seek out " Certified "

> >

> > > practitioners.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > They will write articles in journals and do advertising

> promoting

> >

> > > the value of their certification creating the impression they

> are

> >

> > > more qualified, creating lots of competition based on a

> >

> > certificate

> >

> > > not a license.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > They will do this in a big way.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Non-Certified practioners will develop a counter program as to

> how

> >

> > > they can address this issue, including seeking licensing

> agencies

> >

> > > opinions on the value of these kind of certificates as the basis

> >

> > of

> >

> > > determining compentency, skill and the ability to practice. It

> >

> > will

> >

> > > set a trend of practioners and organizations to aggresively

> market

> >

> > > their certifications, whether a board or not.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Insurance companies (the one's that work with Acupuncturists and

> >

> > act

> >

> > > as a middle person) will begin to list these certified people

> >

> > > separately by their area of specialty, separate from other

> >

> > > practitioners, regardless of skill level.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Insurance companies with networks will require these people for

> >

> > > specific treatments and not accept others.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Insurance companies will dictate Acupuncture protocols based on

> >

> > > their protocols.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > This will only be the beginning of Boards and the attempt to

> >

> > > distinguish practitioner from practitioner based on a written

> exam

> >

> > > with no licensing agency approval.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Regards,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > David

> >

> > >

> >

> > <!--

> >

> > #ygrp-mkp{

> > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:14px

> 0px;padding:0px 14px;}

> > #ygrp-mkp hr{

> > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}

> > #ygrp-mkp #hd{

> > color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:bold;line-

> height:122%;margin:10px 0px;}

> > #ygrp-mkp #ads{

> > margin-bottom:10px;}

> > #ygrp-mkp .ad{

> > padding:0 0;}

> > #ygrp-mkp .ad a{

> > color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}

> > -->

> >

> > <!--

> >

> > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{

> > font-family:Arial;}

> > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{

> > margin:10px 0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}

> > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{

> > margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}

> > -->

> >

> > <!--

> >

> > #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean,

> sans-serif;}

> > #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}

> > #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica,

> clean, sans-serif;}

> > #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;}

> > #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}

> > #ygrp-text{

> > font-family:Georgia;

> > }

> > #ygrp-text p{

> > margin:0 0 1em 0;}

> > #ygrp-tpmsgs{

> > font-family:Arial;

> > clear:both;}

> > #ygrp-vitnav{

> > padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;}

> > #ygrp-vitnav a{

> > padding:0 1px;}

> > #ygrp-actbar{

> > clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-

> align:right;}

> > #ygrp-actbar .left{

> > float:left;white-space:nowrap;}

> > .bld{font-weight:bold;}

> > #ygrp-grft{

> > font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;}

> > #ygrp-ft{

> > font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666;

> > padding:5px 0;

> > }

> > #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{

> > padding-bottom:10px;}

> >

> > #ygrp-vital{

> > background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;}

> > #ygrp-vital #vithd{

> > font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-

> transform:uppercase;}

> > #ygrp-vital ul{

> > padding:0;margin:2px 0;}

> > #ygrp-vital ul li{

> > list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee;

> > }

> > #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{

> > font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-

> align:right;padding-right:.5em;}

> > #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{

> > font-weight:bold;}

> > #ygrp-vital a{

> > text-decoration:none;}

> >

> > #ygrp-vital a:hover{

> > text-decoration:underline;}

> >

> > #ygrp-sponsor #hd{

> > color:#999;font-size:77%;}

> > #ygrp-sponsor #ov{

> > padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;}

> > #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{

> > padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;}

> > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{

> > list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;}

> > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{

> > text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;}

> > #ygrp-sponsor #nc{

> > background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;}

> > #ygrp-sponsor .ad{

> > padding:8px 0;}

> > #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{

> > font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-

> size:100%;line-height:122%;}

> > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{

> > text-decoration:none;}

> > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{

> > text-decoration:underline;}

> > #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{

> > margin:0;}

> > o{font-size:0;}

> > .MsoNormal{

> > margin:0 0 0 0;}

> > #ygrp-text tt{

> > font-size:120%;}

> > blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;}

> > .replbq{margin:4;}

> > -->

> >

> > ________

> > Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit For

> Good http://uk.promotions./forgood/environment.html

> >

September 12, 2007

Holy Sh**T Kath,

Did we just agree on something?

Well THIS is a turning point.

David K

-- In Chinese Medicine , " Kath Bartlett,

MS, LAc " wrote:

>

> i thought it was lol funny, too.

>

> thanks for the humorous break from all this heavy bickering.

>

> k

>

> On 9/9/07, David Karchmer <acuprof wrote:

> >

> > Well Hugo,

> >

> > You may be right on this one. As hard as I try to stay above the

> > fray, when someone lobs a softball, sometimes the temptation is

just

> > too great and I have to take a swing!

> >

> > I thought it was pretty funny.... but maybe that's just the way I

am

> > warped.

> >

> > David K

> > --- In

Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medic

ine%40>,

> > Hugo Ramiro

> > <subincor@> wrote:

> > >

> > > David, you are not showing a lot of congruence. Your comment

> > below does not fit with your recent opinions regarding " polemical "

> > comments versus useful ones. Not sure if your below comment is

> > appropriate.

> > > Hugo

> > >

> > > David Karchmer <acuprof@>

> > > To:

Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medic

ine%40>

> > > Saturday, 8 September, 2007 10:06:15 PM

> > > Re: My prediction of how Specialty Certificates

> > will influence our profession

> > >

> > > And then, the Taoist masters of old will rise from the

> > earth and

> > >

> > > engage in a cosmic battle for supremecy with the ghosts of

western

> > >

> > > bio-medicine' s hallowed founders.

> > >

> > > The battle will rage for 16 generations, and the earth will grow

> > as

> > >

> > > black as pitch. Dark times will engulf the planet for a thousand

> > >

> > > years. And the tears of children will fill the seas.

> > >

> > > --- In

> > >

> > > Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine @.

> > com, " flyingstarsfengshu i "

> > >

> > > <flyingstarsfengshu i wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > My biggest concern is how this ABORM Certificate is going to

be

> > >

> > > > marketed.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > I predict the following.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > This Board will promote the certificate to their network of

> > >

> > > > Physicians, Medical Institutions and related areas, they will

> > >

> > > > attempt to persuade them to select or seek out " Certified "

> > >

> > > > practitioners.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > They will write articles in journals and do advertising

> > promoting

> > >

> > > > the value of their certification creating the impression they

> > are

> > >

> > > > more qualified, creating lots of competition based on a

> > >

> > > certificate

> > >

> > > > not a license.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > They will do this in a big way.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Non-Certified practioners will develop a counter program as to

> > how

> > >

> > > > they can address this issue, including seeking licensing

> > agencies

> > >

> > > > opinions on the value of these kind of certificates as the

basis

> > >

> > > of

> > >

> > > > determining compentency, skill and the ability to practice. It

> > >

> > > will

> > >

> > > > set a trend of practioners and organizations to aggresively

> > market

> > >

> > > > their certifications, whether a board or not.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Insurance companies (the one's that work with Acupuncturists

and

> > >

> > > act

> > >

> > > > as a middle person) will begin to list these certified people

> > >

> > > > separately by their area of specialty, separate from other

> > >

> > > > practitioners, regardless of skill level.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Insurance companies with networks will require these people

for

> > >

> > > > specific treatments and not accept others.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Insurance companies will dictate Acupuncture protocols based

on

> > >

> > > > their protocols.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > This will only be the beginning of Boards and the attempt to

> > >

> > > > distinguish practitioner from practitioner based on a written

> > exam

> > >

> > > > with no licensing agency approval.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Regards,

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > David

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > <!--

> > >

> > > #ygrp-mkp{

> > > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:14px

> > 0px;padding:0px 14px;}

> > > #ygrp-mkp hr{

> > > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}

> > > #ygrp-mkp #hd{

> > > color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:bold;line-

> > height:122%;margin:10px 0px;}

> > > #ygrp-mkp #ads{

> > > margin-bottom:10px;}

> > > #ygrp-mkp .ad{

> > > padding:0 0;}

> > > #ygrp-mkp .ad a{

> > > color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}

> > > -->

> > >

> > > <!--

> > >

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{

> > > font-family:Arial;}

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{

> > > margin:10px 0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:78%;line-

height:122%;}

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{

> > > margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}

> > > -->

> > >

> > > <!--

> > >

> > > #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean,

> > sans-serif;}

> > > #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}

> > > #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica,

> > clean, sans-serif;}

> > > #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;}

> > > #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}

> > > #ygrp-text{

> > > font-family:Georgia;

> > > }

> > > #ygrp-text p{

> > > margin:0 0 1em 0;}

> > > #ygrp-tpmsgs{

> > > font-family:Arial;

> > > clear:both;}

> > > #ygrp-vitnav{

> > > padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;}

> > > #ygrp-vitnav a{

> > > padding:0 1px;}

> > > #ygrp-actbar{

> > > clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-

> > align:right;}

> > > #ygrp-actbar .left{

> > > float:left;white-space:nowrap;}

> > > .bld{font-weight:bold;}

> > > #ygrp-grft{

> > > font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;}

> > > #ygrp-ft{

> > > font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666;

> > > padding:5px 0;

> > > }

> > > #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{

> > > padding-bottom:10px;}

> > >

> > > #ygrp-vital{

> > > background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px

8px;}

> > > #ygrp-vital #vithd{

> > > font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-

weight:bold;color:#333;text-

> > transform:uppercase;}

> > > #ygrp-vital ul{

> > > padding:0;margin:2px 0;}

> > > #ygrp-vital ul li{

> > > list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee;

> > > }

> > > #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{

> > > font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-

> > align:right;padding-right:.5em;}

> > > #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{

> > > font-weight:bold;}

> > > #ygrp-vital a{

> > > text-decoration:none;}

> > >

> > > #ygrp-vital a:hover{

> > > text-decoration:underline;}

> > >

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #hd{

> > > color:#999;font-size:77%;}

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov{

> > > padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;}

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{

> > > padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;}

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{

> > > list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;}

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{

> > > text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;}

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #nc{

> > > background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;}

> > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad{

> > > padding:8px 0;}

> > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{

> > > font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-

> > size:100%;line-height:122%;}

> > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{

> > > text-decoration:none;}

> > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{

> > > text-decoration:underline;}

> > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{

> > > margin:0;}

> > > o{font-size:0;}

> > > .MsoNormal{

> > > margin:0 0 0 0;}

> > > #ygrp-text tt{

> > > font-size:120%;}

> > > blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;}

> > > .replbq{margin:4;}

> > > -->

> > >

> > > ________

> > > Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit For

> > Good http://uk.promotions./forgood/environment.html

> > >

September 12, 2007

i do try to look for commonalities. like you, i am opinionated. but just

because we disagree on one topic doesn't mean we can't find common ground

elsewhere. that's the problem with political discussions: they get really

divisive.

glad we found a place of agreement.

k

On 9/11/07, David Karchmer <acuprof wrote:

>

> Holy Sh**T Kath,

>

> Did we just agree on something?

>

> Well THIS is a turning point.

>

> David K

>

> -- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> " Kath Bartlett,

> MS, LAc " wrote:

> >

> > i thought it was lol funny, too.

> >

> > thanks for the humorous break from all this heavy bickering.

> >

> > k

> >

> > On 9/9/07, David Karchmer <acuprof wrote:

> > >

> > > Well Hugo,

> > >

> > > You may be right on this one. As hard as I try to stay above the

> > > fray, when someone lobs a softball, sometimes the temptation is

> just

> > > too great and I have to take a swing!

> > >

> > > I thought it was pretty funny.... but maybe that's just the way I

> am

> > > warped.

> > >

> > > David K

> > > --- In

>

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> <Traditional_Chinese_Medic

> ine%40>,

> > > Hugo Ramiro

> > > <subincor@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > David, you are not showing a lot of congruence. Your comment

> > > below does not fit with your recent opinions regarding " polemical "

> > > comments versus useful ones. Not sure if your below comment is

> > > appropriate.

> > > > Hugo

> > > >

> > > > David Karchmer <acuprof@>

> > > > To:

>

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> <Traditional_Chinese_Medic

> ine%40>

> > > > Saturday, 8 September, 2007 10:06:15 PM

> > > > Re: My prediction of how Specialty Certificates

> > > will influence our profession

> > > >

> > > > And then, the Taoist masters of old will rise from the

> > > earth and

> > > >

> > > > engage in a cosmic battle for supremecy with the ghosts of

> western

> > > >

> > > > bio-medicine' s hallowed founders.

> > > >

> > > > The battle will rage for 16 generations, and the earth will grow

> > > as

> > > >

> > > > black as pitch. Dark times will engulf the planet for a thousand

> > > >

> > > > years. And the tears of children will fill the seas.

> > > >

> > > > --- In

> > > >

> > > > Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine @.

> > > com, " flyingstarsfengshu i "

> > > >

> > > > <flyingstarsfengshu i wrote:

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > My biggest concern is how this ABORM Certificate is going to

> be

> > > >

> > > > > marketed.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > I predict the following.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > This Board will promote the certificate to their network of

> > > >

> > > > > Physicians, Medical Institutions and related areas, they will

> > > >

> > > > > attempt to persuade them to select or seek out " Certified "

> > > >

> > > > > practitioners.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > They will write articles in journals and do advertising

> > > promoting

> > > >

> > > > > the value of their certification creating the impression they

> > > are

> > > >

> > > > > more qualified, creating lots of competition based on a

> > > >

> > > > certificate

> > > >

> > > > > not a license.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > They will do this in a big way.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Non-Certified practioners will develop a counter program as to

> > > how

> > > >

> > > > > they can address this issue, including seeking licensing

> > > agencies

> > > >

> > > > > opinions on the value of these kind of certificates as the

> basis

> > > >

> > > > of

> > > >

> > > > > determining compentency, skill and the ability to practice. It

> > > >

> > > > will

> > > >

> > > > > set a trend of practioners and organizations to aggresively

> > > market

> > > >

> > > > > their certifications, whether a board or not.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Insurance companies (the one's that work with Acupuncturists

> and

> > > >

> > > > act

> > > >

> > > > > as a middle person) will begin to list these certified people

> > > >

> > > > > separately by their area of specialty, separate from other

> > > >

> > > > > practitioners, regardless of skill level.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Insurance companies with networks will require these people

> for

> > > >

> > > > > specific treatments and not accept others.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Insurance companies will dictate Acupuncture protocols based

> on

> > > >

> > > > > their protocols.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > This will only be the beginning of Boards and the attempt to

> > > >

> > > > > distinguish practitioner from practitioner based on a written

> > > exam

> > > >

> > > > > with no licensing agency approval.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > David

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > <!--

> > > >

> > > > #ygrp-mkp{

> > > > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:14px

> > > 0px;padding:0px 14px;}

> > > > #ygrp-mkp hr{

> > > > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}

> > > > #ygrp-mkp #hd{

> > > > color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:bold;line-

> > > height:122%;margin:10px 0px;}

> > > > #ygrp-mkp #ads{

> > > > margin-bottom:10px;}

> > > > #ygrp-mkp .ad{

> > > > padding:0 0;}

> > > > #ygrp-mkp .ad a{

> > > > color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}

> > > > -->

> > > >

> > > > <!--

> > > >

> > > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{

> > > > font-family:Arial;}

> > > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{

> > > > margin:10px 0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:78%;line-

> height:122%;}

> > > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{

> > > > margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}

> > > > -->

> > > >

> > > > <!--

> > > >

> > > > #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean,

> > > sans-serif;}

> > > > #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}

> > > > #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica,

> > > clean, sans-serif;}

> > > > #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;}

> > > > #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}

> > > > #ygrp-text{

> > > > font-family:Georgia;

> > > > }

> > > > #ygrp-text p{

> > > > margin:0 0 1em 0;}

> > > > #ygrp-tpmsgs{

> > > > font-family:Arial;

> > > > clear:both;}

> > > > #ygrp-vitnav{

> > > > padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;}

> > > > #ygrp-vitnav a{

> > > > padding:0 1px;}

> > > > #ygrp-actbar{

> > > > clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-

> > > align:right;}

> > > > #ygrp-actbar .left{

> > > > float:left;white-space:nowrap;}

> > > > .bld{font-weight:bold;}

> > > > #ygrp-grft{

> > > > font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;}

> > > > #ygrp-ft{

> > > > font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666;

> > > > padding:5px 0;

> > > > }

> > > > #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{

> > > > padding-bottom:10px;}

> > > >

> > > > #ygrp-vital{

> > > > background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px

> 8px;}

> > > > #ygrp-vital #vithd{

> > > > font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-

> weight:bold;color:#333;text-

> > > transform:uppercase;}

> > > > #ygrp-vital ul{

> > > > padding:0;margin:2px 0;}

> > > > #ygrp-vital ul li{

> > > > list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee;

> > > > }

> > > > #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{

> > > > font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-

> > > align:right;padding-right:.5em;}

> > > > #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{

> > > > font-weight:bold;}

> > > > #ygrp-vital a{

> > > > text-decoration:none;}

> > > >

> > > > #ygrp-vital a:hover{

> > > > text-decoration:underline;}

> > > >

> > > > #ygrp-sponsor #hd{

> > > > color:#999;font-size:77%;}

> > > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov{

> > > > padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;}

> > > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{

> > > > padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;}

> > > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{

> > > > list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;}

> > > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{

> > > > text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;}

> > > > #ygrp-sponsor #nc{

> > > > background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;}

> > > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad{

> > > > padding:8px 0;}

> > > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{

> > > > font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-

> > > size:100%;line-height:122%;}

> > > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{

> > > > text-decoration:none;}

> > > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{

> > > > text-decoration:underline;}

> > > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{

> > > > margin:0;}

> > > > o{font-size:0;}

> > > > .MsoNormal{

> > > > margin:0 0 0 0;}

> > > > #ygrp-text tt{

> > > > font-size:120%;}

> > > > blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;}

> > > > .replbq{margin:4;}

> > > > -->

> > > >

> > > > ________

> > > > Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit For

> > > Good http://uk.promotions./forgood/environment.html

> > > >

September 12, 2007

Ha Ha. I think you both are pretty funny at this point.

Andrea Beth

David Karchmer <acuprof wrote: Holy Sh**T Kath,

Did we just agree on something?

Well THIS is a turning point.

David K

-- In Chinese Medicine , " Kath Bartlett,

MS, LAc " wrote:

>

> i thought it was lol funny, too.

>

> thanks for the humorous break from all this heavy bickering.

>

> k

>

> On 9/9/07, David Karchmer wrote:

> >

> > Well Hugo,

> >

> > You may be right on this one. As hard as I try to stay above the

> > fray, when someone lobs a softball, sometimes the temptation is

just

> > too great and I have to take a swing!

> >

> > I thought it was pretty funny.... but maybe that's just the way I

am

> > warped.

> >

> > David K

> > --- In

Chinese Medicine

ine%40>,

> > Hugo Ramiro

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > David, you are not showing a lot of congruence. Your comment

> > below does not fit with your recent opinions regarding " polemical "

> > comments versus useful ones. Not sure if your below comment is

> > appropriate.

> > > Hugo

> > >

> > > David Karchmer

> > > To:

Chinese Medicine

ine%40>

> > > Saturday, 8 September, 2007 10:06:15 PM

> > > Re: My prediction of how Specialty Certificates

> > will influence our profession

> > >

> > > And then, the Taoist masters of old will rise from the

> > earth and

> > >

> > > engage in a cosmic battle for supremecy with the ghosts of

western

> > >

> > > bio-medicine' s hallowed founders.

> > >

> > > The battle will rage for 16 generations, and the earth will grow

> > as

> > >

> > > black as pitch. Dark times will engulf the planet for a thousand

> > >

> > > years. And the tears of children will fill the seas.

> > >

> > > --- In

> > >

> > > Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine @.

> > com, " flyingstarsfengshu i "

> > >

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > My biggest concern is how this ABORM Certificate is going to

be

> > >

> > > > marketed.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > I predict the following.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > This Board will promote the certificate to their network of

> > >

> > > > Physicians, Medical Institutions and related areas, they will

> > >

> > > > attempt to persuade them to select or seek out " Certified "

> > >

> > > > practitioners.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > They will write articles in journals and do advertising

> > promoting

> > >

> > > > the value of their certification creating the impression they

> > are

> > >

> > > > more qualified, creating lots of competition based on a

> > >

> > > certificate

> > >

> > > > not a license.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > They will do this in a big way.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Non-Certified practioners will develop a counter program as to

> > how

> > >

> > > > they can address this issue, including seeking licensing

> > agencies

> > >

> > > > opinions on the value of these kind of certificates as the

basis

> > >

> > > of

> > >

> > > > determining compentency, skill and the ability to practice. It

> > >

> > > will

> > >

> > > > set a trend of practioners and organizations to aggresively

> > market

> > >

> > > > their certifications, whether a board or not.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Insurance companies (the one's that work with Acupuncturists

and

> > >

> > > act

> > >

> > > > as a middle person) will begin to list these certified people

> > >

> > > > separately by their area of specialty, separate from other

> > >

> > > > practitioners, regardless of skill level.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Insurance companies with networks will require these people

for

> > >

> > > > specific treatments and not accept others.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Insurance companies will dictate Acupuncture protocols based

on

> > >

> > > > their protocols.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > This will only be the beginning of Boards and the attempt to

> > >

> > > > distinguish practitioner from practitioner based on a written

> > exam

> > >

> > > > with no licensing agency approval.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Regards,

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > David

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > >

> > > #ygrp-mkp{

> > > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:14px

> > 0px;padding:0px 14px;}

> > > #ygrp-mkp hr{

> > > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}

> > > #ygrp-mkp #hd{

> > > color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:bold;line-

> > height:122%;margin:10px 0px;}

> > > #ygrp-mkp #ads{

> > > margin-bottom:10px;}

> > > #ygrp-mkp .ad{

> > > padding:0 0;}

> > > #ygrp-mkp .ad a{

> > > color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}

> > > -->

> > >

> > > > > >

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{

> > > font-family:Arial;}

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{

> > > margin:10px 0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:78%;line-

height:122%;}

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{

> > > margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}

> > > -->

> > >

> > > > > >

> > > #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean,

> > sans-serif;}

> > > #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}

> > > #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica,

> > clean, sans-serif;}

> > > #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;}

> > > #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}

> > > #ygrp-text{

> > > font-family:Georgia;

> > > }

> > > #ygrp-text p{

> > > margin:0 0 1em 0;}

> > > #ygrp-tpmsgs{

> > > font-family:Arial;

> > > clear:both;}

> > > #ygrp-vitnav{

> > > padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;}

> > > #ygrp-vitnav a{

> > > padding:0 1px;}

> > > #ygrp-actbar{

> > > clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-

> > align:right;}

> > > #ygrp-actbar .left{

> > > float:left;white-space:nowrap;}

> > > .bld{font-weight:bold;}

> > > #ygrp-grft{

> > > font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;}

> > > #ygrp-ft{

> > > font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666;

> > > padding:5px 0;

> > > }

> > > #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{

> > > padding-bottom:10px;}

> > >

> > > #ygrp-vital{

> > > background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px

8px;}

> > > #ygrp-vital #vithd{

> > > font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-

weight:bold;color:#333;text-

> > transform:uppercase;}

> > > #ygrp-vital ul{

> > > padding:0;margin:2px 0;}

> > > #ygrp-vital ul li{

> > > list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee;

> > > }

> > > #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{

> > > font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-

> > align:right;padding-right:.5em;}

> > > #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{

> > > font-weight:bold;}

> > > #ygrp-vital a{

> > > text-decoration:none;}

> > >

> > > #ygrp-vital a:hover{

> > > text-decoration:underline;}

> > >

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #hd{

> > > color:#999;font-size:77%;}

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov{

> > > padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;}

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{

> > > padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;}

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{

> > > list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;}

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{

> > > text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;}

> > > #ygrp-sponsor #nc{

> > > background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;}

> > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad{

> > > padding:8px 0;}

> > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{

> > > font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-

> > size:100%;line-height:122%;}

> > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{

> > > text-decoration:none;}

> > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{

> > > text-decoration:underline;}

> > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{

> > > margin:0;}

> > > o{font-size:0;}

> > > .MsoNormal{

> > > margin:0 0 0 0;}

> > > #ygrp-text tt{

> > > font-size:120%;}

> > > blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;}

> > > .replbq{margin:4;}

> > > -->

> > >

> > > ________

> > > Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit For

> > Good http://uk.promotions./forgood/environment.html

> > >

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