Guest guest Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Z'ev, What is the source of this statement? I have checked Maimonides' Medicial aphorism, Treatise on Asthma, Treatise on the Regimen of Health, Treatise on the Cause of Symptoms, and Laws of Temperaments and could not find it. Yehuda <zrosenbe wrote: Maimonides in his medical writings said that the excessive use of milk products damages the jaw. In other words, excesses of cow's milk can change the human skeleton, effecting the size of the jaw in relation to the skull. On Jun 14, 2007, at 2:10 PM, wrote: > This is interesting, Ecles. I also find that people often have > teeth that crowd their mouths. Yet, it makes absolutely no sense at > all that this would be so. Why would we have more teeth, or bigger > teeth, than our mouths can accommodate? Any ideas as to the cause? > > > > ecleea <physician wrote: Hi Thomas: > Personally, I think using teeth marks for diagnosis, in general, is > pushing it. I went to a seminar earlier this year with Jake Fratkin. > When he made a comment about teeth marks I said to myself, " Finally, > someone has seen the light! " His comment was, " Teeth marks most of > the time don't tell you anything. Many people have a mouth that's > too small to accommodate their teeth, so you'll see teeth marks on > the tongue. " In my opinion, teeth marks are not a reliable fluid > index. > > Have a great day! > Eclea > Chinese Medicine , " Thomas > Sørensen " <aikinohari wrote: > > > > Ultimately making tooth marks a sign of Kid def/MingMen def? Or is > that > > pushing it? > > > > ....sorry for breaking the post up like this.... > > > > Best regards, > > > > Thomas Sorensen > > > > 2007/6/13, Thomas Sørensen <aikinohari: > > > > > > So could it be interpreted more as a sign of def. of the > SanJiao's > > > distribution of Water and Qi due to either Sp def, lu def and/or > Kid (Yang > > > in particular) def? > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Thomas Sorensen > > > > > > 2007/6/13, Thomas Sørensen <aikinohari: > > > > > > > > Would it be completely crazy to hypothesize that tooth marks > could be > > > > seen in relation to San Jiao. If this was so then the edge of > the tongue > > > > would be equivalent to the exterior condition of the body and > tooth marks > > > > would be a manifestation of Dampness and/or (maybe more > appropriately in an > > > > otherwise not swollen tongue) phlegm in the exterior (below > skin) - either > > > > in the intestines or in the exterior portion of the body > manifesting as ie > > > > overweight, nodules etc. Depending on the rest of the tongue > reading (Crack > > > > in ST/SP area, Thick, greasy coating, swelling to the > back/front of the > > > > tongue, etc) it would give the cause of the Dampness/Phlegm > (Kid, Sp, Lu) > > > > No other significant change in tongue than toothmarks could > then point to a > > > > more exterior than interior condition, ie damp-stroke? ...of > course other > > > > symptoms and signs should correlate. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Thomas Sorensen > > > > > > > > 2007/6/13, yehuda frischman < : > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I've noticed that as well, generally in the area > associated > > > > > with the Liver and GB. Perhaps we could explain the > phenomenon of teethmarks > > > > > occurring there as a manifestation of stagnation, and as the > liver is > > > > > responsible for the smooth flow of Qi, the dampness is a > pathogen that > > > > > immediately interrupts that flow. > > > > > > > > > > Thomas Sørensen <aikinohari <aikinohari%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > > > That we agree on, but I think it's interesting to note that > the teethmarks > > > > > are outside of the " normal " area of the Sp; it's in the > periferi of > > > > > the > > > > > tongue. Also teethmarks are an uneven swelling - If there's > a general > > > > > problem in water metabolism (due to sp def or not) wouldn't > this > > > > > manifest in > > > > > a general swelling of the tongue, which of course can > coexist with the > > > > > teethmarks, but this is not always the case. I do see normal > and > > > > > withered > > > > > tongues with teethmarks.... and very often I see patients > with > > > > > teethmarks > > > > > where the pulse/symptoms and signs doesn't correlate to Sp > def, but > > > > > rather > > > > > to a Kid def....... Just wondering.... > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > Thomas Sorensen > > > > > > > > > > 2007/6/13, Attilio D'Alberto > <attiliodalberto<attiliodalberto%40.co.uk> > > > > > >: > > > > > > > > > > > > Basically put, the Spleen is one of the three organs that > regulates > > > > > > water > > > > > > metabolism in the body. If the Spleen is deficient, then > the tongue > > > > > will > > > > > > swell in size because water metabolism is not regulated. > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Attilio D'Alberto > > > > > > Doctor of (Beijing, China) > > > > > > BSc (Hons) TCM MBAcC > > > > > > Editor > > > > > > Times > > > > > > +44 (0) 1189 612512 > > > > > > enquiries<enquiries% > 40chinesemedicinetimes.com><enquiries%40chinesemedicinetimes.com> > > > > > > <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > > > > > <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php> > > > > > > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php > > > > > > > > > > > > This message contains privileged and confidential > information > > > > > intended > > > > > > only > > > > > > for the addressee. If you have received this message in > error you > > > > > must not > > > > > > disseminate, copy or take action on it; please notify > sender. > > > > > Although > > > > > > this > > > > > > e-mail and any attachments are believed to be virus free, > e-mail > > > > > > communications are not 100% secure and the sender makes no > warranty > > > > > that > > > > > > this message is secure or virus free. Nothing in this > transmission > > > > > shall > > > > > > or > > > > > > shall be deemed to constitute an offer or acceptance of an > offer or > > > > > > otherwise have the effect of forming a contract by > electronic > > > > > > communication. > > > > > > Your name and address may be stored to facilitate > communications. > > > > > The > > > > > > sender > > > > > > is registered in England. Registered office: PO Box 3521, > Wokingham, > > > > > > Berkshire, RG40 9DX, UK. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medi > cine%40><Chinese Medicine% > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chin > ese_Medicine%40><Chinese Medicine% > 40>] > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of Thomas > > > > > > Sørensen > > > > > > 13 June 2007 06:45 > > > > > > To: > Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medi > cine%40><Chinese Medicine% > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > Teethmarks > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Group, > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone with an explanation of why teethmarks on the tongue > are a > > > > > > manifestation of Sp def/Dampness? Anyone with ideas on this > > > > > particular > > > > > > sign > > > > > > relating it to different pathogenic factors? > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Thomas Sorensen > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Althea Akupunktur & Orientalsk Medicin > > > > > > Albanigade 23A, Kld. > > > > > > 5000 Odense C > > > > > > Denmark > > > > > > > > > > > > Tlf.: (+45) 31 25 92 26 > > > > > > info@orientalskmedi <info% <info%25> <info% > 25>40orientalskmedicin.dk> > > > > > cin.dk > > > > > > www.orientalskmedicin.dk > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 I'll find it. . .Meir Abehsera first told me about this when I was working with him on a book on Jewish traditional medicine almost thirty years ago. . . On Jun 17, 2007, at 2:00 AM, yehuda frischman wrote: > Z'ev, > > What is the source of this statement? I have checked Maimonides' > Medicial aphorism, Treatise on Asthma, Treatise on the Regimen of > Health, Treatise on the Cause of Symptoms, and Laws of Temperaments > and could not find it. > > Yehuda > > <zrosenbe wrote: > Maimonides in his medical writings said that the excessive use of > milk products damages the jaw. In other words, excesses of cow's > milk can change the human skeleton, effecting the size of the jaw in > relation to the skull. > > > On Jun 14, 2007, at 2:10 PM, wrote: > > > This is interesting, Ecles. I also find that people often have > > teeth that crowd their mouths. Yet, it makes absolutely no sense at > > all that this would be so. Why would we have more teeth, or bigger > > teeth, than our mouths can accommodate? Any ideas as to the cause? > > > > > > > > ecleea <physician wrote: Hi Thomas: > > Personally, I think using teeth marks for diagnosis, in general, is > > pushing it. I went to a seminar earlier this year with Jake Fratkin. > > When he made a comment about teeth marks I said to myself, " Finally, > > someone has seen the light! " His comment was, " Teeth marks most of > > the time don't tell you anything. Many people have a mouth that's > > too small to accommodate their teeth, so you'll see teeth marks on > > the tongue. " In my opinion, teeth marks are not a reliable fluid > > index. > > > > Have a great day! > > Eclea > > Chinese Medicine , " Thomas > > Sørensen " <aikinohari wrote: > > > > > > Ultimately making tooth marks a sign of Kid def/MingMen def? Or is > > that > > > pushing it? > > > > > > ....sorry for breaking the post up like this.... > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Thomas Sorensen > > > > > > 2007/6/13, Thomas Sørensen <aikinohari: > > > > > > > > So could it be interpreted more as a sign of def. of the > > SanJiao's > > > > distribution of Water and Qi due to either Sp def, lu def and/or > > Kid (Yang > > > > in particular) def? > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Thomas Sorensen > > > > > > > > 2007/6/13, Thomas Sørensen <aikinohari: > > > > > > > > > > Would it be completely crazy to hypothesize that tooth marks > > could be > > > > > seen in relation to San Jiao. If this was so then the edge of > > the tongue > > > > > would be equivalent to the exterior condition of the body and > > tooth marks > > > > > would be a manifestation of Dampness and/or (maybe more > > appropriately in an > > > > > otherwise not swollen tongue) phlegm in the exterior (below > > skin) - either > > > > > in the intestines or in the exterior portion of the body > > manifesting as ie > > > > > overweight, nodules etc. Depending on the rest of the tongue > > reading (Crack > > > > > in ST/SP area, Thick, greasy coating, swelling to the > > back/front of the > > > > > tongue, etc) it would give the cause of the Dampness/Phlegm > > (Kid, Sp, Lu) > > > > > No other significant change in tongue than toothmarks could > > then point to a > > > > > more exterior than interior condition, ie damp-stroke? ...of > > course other > > > > > symptoms and signs should correlate. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > Thomas Sorensen > > > > > > > > > > 2007/6/13, yehuda frischman < : > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I've noticed that as well, generally in the area > > associated > > > > > > with the Liver and GB. Perhaps we could explain the > > phenomenon of teethmarks > > > > > > occurring there as a manifestation of stagnation, and as the > > liver is > > > > > > responsible for the smooth flow of Qi, the dampness is a > > pathogen that > > > > > > immediately interrupts that flow. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thomas Sørensen <aikinohari <aikinohari%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > > That we agree on, but I think it's interesting to note that > > the teethmarks > > > > > > are outside of the " normal " area of the Sp; it's in the > > periferi of > > > > > > the > > > > > > tongue. Also teethmarks are an uneven swelling - If there's > > a general > > > > > > problem in water metabolism (due to sp def or not) wouldn't > > this > > > > > > manifest in > > > > > > a general swelling of the tongue, which of course can > > coexist with the > > > > > > teethmarks, but this is not always the case. I do see normal > > and > > > > > > withered > > > > > > tongues with teethmarks.... and very often I see patients > > with > > > > > > teethmarks > > > > > > where the pulse/symptoms and signs doesn't correlate to Sp > > def, but > > > > > > rather > > > > > > to a Kid def....... Just wondering.... > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Thomas Sorensen > > > > > > > > > > > > 2007/6/13, Attilio D'Alberto > > <attiliodalberto<attiliodalberto%40.co.uk> > > > > > > >: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Basically put, the Spleen is one of the three organs that > > regulates > > > > > > > water > > > > > > > metabolism in the body. If the Spleen is deficient, then > > the tongue > > > > > > will > > > > > > > swell in size because water metabolism is not regulated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Attilio D'Alberto > > > > > > > Doctor of (Beijing, China) > > > > > > > BSc (Hons) TCM MBAcC > > > > > > > Editor > > > > > > > Times > > > > > > > +44 (0) 1189 612512 > > > > > > > enquiries<enquiries% > > 40chinesemedicinetimes.com><enquiries%40chinesemedicinetimes.com> > > > > > > > <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/> > > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > > > > > > <http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php> > > > > > > > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/forum/index.php > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This message contains privileged and confidential > > information > > > > > > intended > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > for the addressee. If you have received this message in > > error you > > > > > > must not > > > > > > > disseminate, copy or take action on it; please notify > > sender. > > > > > > Although > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > e-mail and any attachments are believed to be virus free, > > e-mail > > > > > > > communications are not 100% secure and the sender makes no > > warranty > > > > > > that > > > > > > > this message is secure or virus free. Nothing in this > > transmission > > > > > > shall > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > shall be deemed to constitute an offer or acceptance of an > > offer or > > > > > > > otherwise have the effect of forming a contract by > > electronic > > > > > > > communication. > > > > > > > Your name and address may be stored to facilitate > > communications. > > > > > > The > > > > > > > sender > > > > > > > is registered in England. Registered office: PO Box 3521, > > Wokingham, > > > > > > > Berkshire, RG40 9DX, UK. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medi > > cine%40><Chinese Medicine% > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chin > > ese_Medicine%40><Chinese Medicine% > > 40>] > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of Thomas > > > > > > > Sørensen > > > > > > > 13 June 2007 06:45 > > > > > > > To: > > > Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medi > > cine%40><Chinese Medicine% > > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Teethmarks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Group, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone with an explanation of why teethmarks on the tongue > > are a > > > > > > > manifestation of Sp def/Dampness? Anyone with ideas on > this > > > > > > particular > > > > > > > sign > > > > > > > relating it to different pathogenic factors? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thomas Sorensen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Althea Akupunktur & Orientalsk Medicin > > > > > > > Albanigade 23A, Kld. > > > > > > > 5000 Odense C > > > > > > > Denmark > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tlf.: (+45) 31 25 92 26 > > > > > > > info@orientalskmedi <info% <info%25> <info% > > 25>40orientalskmedicin.dk> > > > > > > cin.dk > > > > > > > www.orientalskmedicin.dk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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