Five Element Acupuncture

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

As I answer this, it looks as if, either I or you, are in a parallel universe.

What are you talking about? 5 element and TCM? It's all TCM. 5 elements,

is just another tool in our toolbox to differential-diagnose the patient.

 

Emotion, and spirit, and whatever else, what?

 

If you read the Classics, Five phase cosmic correspondence, five elements,

five phase correspondence in human activity, five phase medical

correspondence,

etc., are all the things that are part of a person and that you are to take

into account when you look at the patient.

But all of those things are an add-on and part of signs and symptoms.

 

There's no emotionally based, nor spiritually based acupuncture separate from

what acupuncture is. There's no " emotion " in acupuncture, the Chinese look at

it

the same way as they look at Jing or Essence. It's part of The Field. When

we do

acupuncture, we are influencing The Field (notice that The Field is in

capitals)

Using herbs to treat the patient, we then are thinking in Zang-Fu terms and we

thus

treat the Western organs. Acupuncture treats the Qi, The Field, and 5 elements

is but a part of it.

 

Lab work, X-rays, CT scans, emotions, what a person does for a living,

demeanor,

inherent characteristic (this would be 5 element) of the patient, are all

tools we have

and we're supposed to use to make as acurate a diagnosis as we possibly can.

 

Maybe I'm in the twighlight zone, but I never - before now, heard of a

separation between

TCM and 5 element, given that 5 element is but one tool amongst many.

 

In my school 5 element is just another lecture. Whatever! This is such

nonsense!

Gloria

 

 

Hi Trish, I very much agree with Z'ev and find the split the 5

element school STILL makes between the physical and spiritual

disheartening. Addressing the emotions and the spirit is inherent in

any tradition that is able to assist in bringing organic balance to a

dynamic gone awry. It is so integral to Chinese medicine that it

does not need to be separated out as an emphasis as is done in the 5E

tradition. I am, like Z'ev amazed that this tendency of the 5E

tradition to split the emotions and spirit off from the body

persists. An ability to use the messages of the body to come to a

diagnosis does not mean that the emotions or spirit are not taken in

as well - as causes of illness or as effects of physical imbalance.

Certainly, an ability to hear the messages of physical and emotional

signs and symptoms as we do in Classical Chinese medicine and to use

these messages to guide treatment has helped many patients with

psychological disorders as well as helping many patients feel more

" right " within and as themselves. A practitioner does not have to

use emotional and spiritual language at every turn in order for the

medicine to have the depth to work on those levels. I would warn

against being seduced by spiritual language as being the hallmark of

a spiritual medicine.

 

I am certain that the graduate you spoke to was simply giving you the

5E party line that she/he had learned in school and really does not

begin to understand anything about the depth and breathe of Chinese

medicine. If that is still the party line in these 5E schools, how

ignorant and closed they are! I hope it is not still true across the

board.

 

I would suggest not just talking to recent graduates who notoriously,

in any tradition, have a bit of the born-again perspective and have

not been tempered by real life practice. I know many 5E

practitioners in the area I live in who have been very disappointed

in their ability to integrate body, emotions and spirit. These

practitioners have radically moved their practices to acupuncture

styles that see the body as an expression of spirit and honor it's

messages (as opposed to just looking for subtle and subjective

messages of spirit only and diminishing the body's ability to speak).

Many of these practitioners have complained that the diagnostic

methods of 5E are so subjective as to create a real lack of

confidence in diagnosis. It is common that a patient will be

diagnosed by various 5 E practitioners and each with see a different CF.

 

As Z'ev points out, the tradition we link to when we begin our

journey in traditional or classical Chinese medicine is very rich and

very diverse. One benefit of TCM is that, though in most schools,

your initial education will seem rather dry it opens the door to a

lifetime of study and deepening. When you really start learning and

integrating the classical roots, the beauty and effectiveness is

rather astounding. In addition you will be connected to a vast

lineage of predecessors. I know from talking to my 5E colleagues

here that the 5E tradition promotes more of an insular community -

that you either practice the tradition as it is and belong to the

community OR you jump ship. So, in spite of the possible limitations

of your initial TCM education, you set sail into an ocean of

teachers, texts, predecessors etc that will continue to inspire and

teach you for your whole career.

 

When I view 5E acupuncture as a thread of a vast tradition, rather

than as claiming to be the best or deepest or most spirit oriented, I

can find what it offers of value. My 5E collegues who have " jumped

ship " have also been able to find more value in the 5E tradition when

they have integrated it into the ocean of teachings we come from. I

also know a 5E practitioner (there are a lot in my area) who has

stayed rather more orthodox and loved it and been successful yet has

not remained critical of Classical or traditional Chinese medicine.

The misunderstanding your recent graduate expresses does not shine

the best light on the 5E tradition.

 

Good luck with your decisions!

 

Sharon

 

I am looking at a school in Florida (Academy for Five Element

Acupuncture) and was talking with a graduate yesterday about 5E. The

graduate said it is very different from TCM in that TCM is based on the

8 principles and is symptom-based to treat physical complaints. That it

was created to treat many people quickly in a standardized manner and

omits spirituality. In contrast, 5E is based on the 5 elements, does

not have protocols (except for some clearing protocols at the beginning

of treatment), and does not separate physical symptoms from the

emotional.

 

This school is seeking CA-approval and it would have been granted except

they are moving to another city this summer. Once settled, the site

visits will take place. So it seems that some TCM must be taught in

order to be CA-approved.

 

Is 5E very different from TCM?

 

Trish

 

Sharon Weizenbaum

86 Henry Street

Amherst, MA 01002

413-549-4021

sweiz

www.whitepinehealingarts.com

 

 

[Guest guest]

Greg, Trish, et al:

 

I have tried to hold my tongue and pulse on this discussion. This is just

informative , I hope, and not confrontative.

 

> While I'm no expert, what I gather is that the modern 5E phenomenon in

> the West is a transmission from Worsley, but I have no idea where he

> received this

 

Anne: In the Footsteps of the Yellow Emperor by Peter Eckman is a good source

for where Worsley got his ideas.

Also Lonnie Jarret, " The Clinical Practice of . " has a lot of

Worsley 's Five E protocols.

 

.. I recently spoke with one of his early students, who is

> now a very famous and respected practitioner in the West but who I

> shall not name, and he said that Worsley was very reluctant to reveal

> his sources, and this person felt that Worsley may have been guilty of

> a lot of MSU (making stuff up).

 

Anne: He was very effective.

There was a study done in the TAI clinic years ago, that showed a very high

level of patient satisfaction. Again, what works is what is important.

 

I have to say what is taught at TAI, my 5E school, is based on the 5 Phases.

Even TAI is only basing their teachings on what Worsley taught the earlier

practitioners. It has been extremely effective and changed many people's lives.

I personally bring in 8 principles, Dr. Tan, Cuppling, GuSha, herbs, Chakra

Energy healing (which can remove pain on the spot.) The teacher I learned this

from was interpreting the ancients also. In all of this I always have the 5E CF

in mind and use it in the treatment.

 

> Regardless of all this and getting back to the original post about

> schools. Trish, I say attend whatever school looks good to you

 

Anne: I would add, sit in on classes and talk to students from different

schools. You will know what feels right to you.