chinese herbal medicine in china and in the west

[Guest guest]

hello

 

here in israel we use one package of raw herbs for 3 days, while in

china it is used only for one day!!

does anyone knows howcome?

 

i asked the same question in the herbal shop and i have been told of

two reasons:

1) the herbs are better quality then the herbs in chia

2) pepole in the western countries are more sensitive to the effect

of the herbs

 

what do you think?

and how many days do you use each pack in the US?

 

thanks

avishay

[Guest guest]

In the UK, its one bag per day.

 

Yes, i think westerners are more sensitive to the herbs. But it could

also be because of the cost. Having 7 bags per day is alot more

expensive.

 

I doubt if the herbs are better quality than in China. People say

they export the best stuff, but i think people are less likely to

know what good herbs look like in the west whereas in China they do

know. So the herbs are more likley to be better in China.

 

Attilio

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

 

Chinese Medicine , " avishay_yamin "

<avishay_yamin wrote:

>

> hello

>

> here in israel we use one package of raw herbs for 3 days, while in

> china it is used only for one day!!

> does anyone knows howcome?

>

> i asked the same question in the herbal shop and i have been told

of

> two reasons:

> 1) the herbs are better quality then the herbs in chia

> 2) pepole in the western countries are more sensitive to the effect

> of the herbs

>

> what do you think?

> and how many days do you use each pack in the US?

>

> thanks

> avishay

>

[Guest guest]

It depends on the company's quality of herbs.

 

In my opinion:

Non-sulfured non-pesticide herbs from China, which are available,

have more qi than the standard variety Chinatown herbs that you may be

writing about.

 

Organic herbs that come from your local farms would have the most qi and

like food, would be the most beneficial for the constitution of those who

live in that environment

(ala macrobiotic principles)

www.highfallsgarden.net

 

I'm giving a plug for these guys, because I think that this is the most

ethical and effective way to utilize the herbs. They're a consortium of

organic growers of Chinese herbs all across the U.S.

 

I've used the dried herbs, planted organic saplings and bought organic

seeds.

They're premium quality, but quite a bit more expensive than the herbs from

China.

Hope this helps. k.

 

 

 

On 2/16/07, <attiliodalberto wrote:

>

> In the UK, its one bag per day.

>

> Yes, i think westerners are more sensitive to the herbs. But it could

> also be because of the cost. Having 7 bags per day is alot more

> expensive.

>

> I doubt if the herbs are better quality than in China. People say

> they export the best stuff, but i think people are less likely to

> know what good herbs look like in the west whereas in China they do

> know. So the herbs are more likley to be better in China.

>

> Attilio

> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

>

> --- In

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>,

> " avishay_yamin "

> <avishay_yamin wrote:

> >

> > hello

> >

> > here in israel we use one package of raw herbs for 3 days, while in

> > china it is used only for one day!!

> > does anyone knows howcome?

> >

> > i asked the same question in the herbal shop and i have been told

> of

> > two reasons:

> > 1) the herbs are better quality then the herbs in chia

> > 2) pepole in the western countries are more sensitive to the effect

> > of the herbs

> >

> > what do you think?

> > and how many days do you use each pack in the US?

> >

> > thanks

> > avishay

> >

>

>

>

 

 

 

--

'Freedom from the desire for an answer is essential to the understanding of

a problem.'

 

Jiddu Krishnamurti

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I recently received some thirty herbs from High Falls Garden, which

has a consortium to distribute herbs from around the United States.

The quality is mind-boggling indeed. Having done wild crafting of

herbs for decades, I am more than impressed by the freshness, quality

and qi of the herbs that I received. I showed the herbs to my

students in a few classes at PCOM, and they were also amazed at the

difference in quality. While more expensive, I think there is a

future for high quality Chinese herbs in the future. Herbs of such

quality can be taken at lower doses with greater medicinal effect,

for one thing.

 

 

On Feb 16, 2007, at 7:18 AM, wrote:

 

> It depends on the company's quality of herbs.

>

> In my opinion:

> Non-sulfured non-pesticide herbs from China, which are available,

> have more qi than the standard variety Chinatown herbs that you may be

> writing about.

>

> Organic herbs that come from your local farms would have the most

> qi and

> like food, would be the most beneficial for the constitution of

> those who

> live in that environment

> (ala macrobiotic principles)

> www.highfallsgarden.net

>

> I'm giving a plug for these guys, because I think that this is the

> most

> ethical and effective way to utilize the herbs. They're a

> consortium of

> organic growers of Chinese herbs all across the U.S.

>

> I've used the dried herbs, planted organic saplings and bought organic

> seeds.

> They're premium quality, but quite a bit more expensive than the

> herbs from

> China.

> Hope this helps. k.

>

> On 2/16/07, <attiliodalberto wrote:

> >

> > In the UK, its one bag per day.

> >

> > Yes, i think westerners are more sensitive to the herbs. But it

> could

> > also be because of the cost. Having 7 bags per day is alot more

> > expensive.

> >

> > I doubt if the herbs are better quality than in China. People say

> > they export the best stuff, but i think people are less likely to

> > know what good herbs look like in the west whereas in China they do

> > know. So the herbs are more likley to be better in China.

> >

> > Attilio

> > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

> >

> > ---

> InChinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Med

> icine%40>,

> > " avishay_yamin "

> > <avishay_yamin wrote:

> > >

> > > hello

> > >

> > > here in israel we use one package of raw herbs for 3 days,

> while in

> > > china it is used only for one day!!

> > > does anyone knows howcome?

> > >

> > > i asked the same question in the herbal shop and i have been told

> > of

> > > two reasons:

> > > 1) the herbs are better quality then the herbs in chia

> > > 2) pepole in the western countries are more sensitive to the

> effect

> > > of the herbs

> > >

> > > what do you think?

> > > and how many days do you use each pack in the US?

> > >

> > > thanks

> > > avishay

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

> --

> 'Freedom from the desire for an answer is essential to the

> understanding of

> a problem.'

>

> Jiddu Krishnamurti

>

>

[Guest guest]

John,

 

The main suppliers of raw, dried herbs (excluding suppliers of just

powders and granules) in the UK are of very low quality. I don't know

what it's like in the US, but that's the situation here.

 

Plugging a company or business is not allowed on this forum even if

it is well intended. See the group's website for a full list of rules.

 

Regards

 

Attilio

 

Chinese Medicine , " "

<johnkokko wrote:

>

> It depends on the company's quality of herbs.

>

> In my opinion:

> Non-sulfured non-pesticide herbs from China, which are available,

> have more qi than the standard variety Chinatown herbs that you may

be

> writing about.

>

> Organic herbs that come from your local farms would have the most

qi and

> like food, would be the most beneficial for the constitution of

those who

> live in that environment

> (ala macrobiotic principles)

> www.highfallsgarden.net

>

> I'm giving a plug for these guys, because I think that this is the

most

> ethical and effective way to utilize the herbs. They're a

consortium of

> organic growers of Chinese herbs all across the U.S.

>

> I've used the dried herbs, planted organic saplings and bought

organic

> seeds.

> They're premium quality, but quite a bit more expensive than the

herbs from

> China.

> Hope this helps. k.

>

>

>

> On 2/16/07, <attiliodalberto wrote:

> >

> > In the UK, its one bag per day.

> >

> > Yes, i think westerners are more sensitive to the herbs. But it

could

> > also be because of the cost. Having 7 bags per day is alot more

> > expensive.

> >

> > I doubt if the herbs are better quality than in China. People say

> > they export the best stuff, but i think people are less likely to

> > know what good herbs look like in the west whereas in China they

do

> > know. So the herbs are more likley to be better in China.

> >

> > Attilio

> > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

> >

> > --- In

Chinese Medicine <Traditional_Chinese_Medic

ine%40>,

> > " avishay_yamin "

> > <avishay_yamin@> wrote:

> > >

> > > hello

> > >

> > > here in israel we use one package of raw herbs for 3 days,

while in

> > > china it is used only for one day!!

> > > does anyone knows howcome?

> > >

> > > i asked the same question in the herbal shop and i have been

told

> > of

> > > two reasons:

> > > 1) the herbs are better quality then the herbs in chia

> > > 2) pepole in the western countries are more sensitive to the

effect

> > > of the herbs

> > >

> > > what do you think?

> > > and how many days do you use each pack in the US?

> > >

> > > thanks

> > > avishay

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> 'Freedom from the desire for an answer is essential to the

understanding of

> a problem.'

>

> Jiddu Krishnamurti

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

in the us standard dosing is one pack for 2 days. i don't buy the herb

quality explanation. i used asia natural herbs from china, organic and the

highest quality avail in us that i know of.

 

explanations for the diff. i have heard include cost (we charge more here)

and in china they'll use herbs only, where as in the us we generally combine

acu and herbs, allowing us to lower the herb dosages with good results.

however, this is debatable. there seems to be many conditions that we don't

tx so well (eg parkinson's). i've read that its partly due to the fact that

we don't use strong enough needle stim (making an arguement for using estim

on the scalp). maybe higher dosing would garner better results. knowing

that they dose higher in china, i have increased my herb dosing. a have a

few patients that don't respond with standard us doses, but do when i

increased (even double standard us dosages). the relative shi/xu

constitution of the patient doesn't seem to affect herb tolerance, in my

exp: i might need to go quite high with a xu const. patient to get

results. i think herb dosing is largely do to exp. level and practice

style.

 

hope this helps,

 

kath

 

 

On 2/16/07, avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin wrote:

>

> hello

>

> here in israel we use one package of raw herbs for 3 days, while in

> china it is used only for one day!!

> does anyone knows howcome?

>

> i asked the same question in the herbal shop and i have been told of

> two reasons:

> 1) the herbs are better quality then the herbs in chia

> 2) pepole in the western countries are more sensitive to the effect

> of the herbs

>

> what do you think?

> and how many days do you use each pack in the US?

>

> thanks

> avishay

>

>

>

 

 

 

--

Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA

Oriental Medicine

Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

 

Asheville Center For

70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

kbartlett

www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

wondering if those familar with both high falls herbs and asia naturals

could comment on the comparative quality respective to each co.

 

thanks,

 

kath

 

 

On 2/16/07, <zrosenbe wrote:

>

> I recently received some thirty herbs from High Falls Garden, which

> has a consortium to distribute herbs from around the United States.

> The quality is mind-boggling indeed. Having done wild crafting of

> herbs for decades, I am more than impressed by the freshness, quality

> and qi of the herbs that I received. I showed the herbs to my

> students in a few classes at PCOM, and they were also amazed at the

> difference in quality. While more expensive, I think there is a

> future for high quality Chinese herbs in the future. Herbs of such

> quality can be taken at lower doses with greater medicinal effect,

> for one thing.

>

>

> On Feb 16, 2007, at 7:18 AM, wrote:

>

> > It depends on the company's quality of herbs.

> >

> > In my opinion:

> > Non-sulfured non-pesticide herbs from China, which are available,

> > have more qi than the standard variety Chinatown herbs that you may be

> > writing about.

> >

> > Organic herbs that come from your local farms would have the most

> > qi and

> > like food, would be the most beneficial for the constitution of

> > those who

> > live in that environment

> > (ala macrobiotic principles)

> > www.highfallsgarden.net

> >

> > I'm giving a plug for these guys, because I think that this is the

> > most

> > ethical and effective way to utilize the herbs. They're a

> > consortium of

> > organic growers of Chinese herbs all across the U.S.

> >

> > I've used the dried herbs, planted organic saplings and bought organic

> > seeds.

> > They're premium quality, but quite a bit more expensive than the

> > herbs from

> > China.

> > Hope this helps. k.

> >

> > On 2/16/07,

<attiliodalberto<attiliodalberto%40.co.uk>>

> wrote:

> > >

> > > In the UK, its one bag per day.

> > >

> > > Yes, i think westerners are more sensitive to the herbs. But it

> > could

> > > also be because of the cost. Having 7 bags per day is alot more

> > > expensive.

> > >

> > > I doubt if the herbs are better quality than in China. People say

> > > they export the best stuff, but i think people are less likely to

> > > know what good herbs look like in the west whereas in China they do

> > > know. So the herbs are more likley to be better in China.

> > >

> > > Attilio

> > > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

> > >

> > > ---

> >

InChinese Medicine <InChinese Medicine%40\

><Traditional_Chinese_Med

>

> > icine%40>,

> > > " avishay_yamin "

> > > <avishay_yamin wrote:

> > > >

> > > > hello

> > > >

> > > > here in israel we use one package of raw herbs for 3 days,

> > while in

> > > > china it is used only for one day!!

> > > > does anyone knows howcome?

> > > >

> > > > i asked the same question in the herbal shop and i have been told

> > > of

> > > > two reasons:

> > > > 1) the herbs are better quality then the herbs in chia

> > > > 2) pepole in the western countries are more sensitive to the

> > effect

> > > > of the herbs

> > > >

> > > > what do you think?

> > > > and how many days do you use each pack in the US?

> > > >

> > > > thanks

> > > > avishay

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > --

> > 'Freedom from the desire for an answer is essential to the

> > understanding of

> > a problem.'

> >

> > Jiddu Krishnamurti

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

In the vast majority of cases, the reason for lack of effect is

related to a dosage that is far too low for the situation. A low

dosage level is appropriate for persons who have low body wright,

mild functional disorder, and/or when the formula is used as the

second (or even the third) prescription in a complex regimen, but not

for many other situations.

 

The treatment frequency for Parkinson's patients is much less in the

west than in China where they would typically be treated on a daily

basis with acupuncture. So, your lack of effect with a difficult

patient may be related to your acupuncture treatments being too

infrequent. To remedy this situation, you may want to consider

supplementing your acupuncture treatments with auricular treatments.

 

I attended a 40 hour seminar by Dr. Li-Chun Huang in 1996. She was

one of the top acupuncturists in China before coming to the United

States. Dr. Li-Chun Huang is regarded as the top Auricular

Medicine researcher and practitioner. Most importantly for you, her

auricular treatment prescriptions are quick to learn and have a very

high efficacy. In fact, they have been my primary treatment modality

for the last 10 years.

 

Here is Dr. Huang's website: http://www.earmedicine.us/index.php

 

All of her seminars and books are wonderful. I refer to her

book " Auricular Treatment: Formulas and Prescriptions " on a daily

basis. To order her books, go to:

http://www.earmedicine.us/pu_books.php

 

Here is a for people that use her techniques:

http://health.auriculotherapy/

[Guest guest]

hi

 

thanks for evrybody for the answers

does anybody knows a herbs company named KPC, and if you do then how

good are their raw herbs? is it good quality one?

 

is it organic? and is one package will be enough for two days? or

only for one day?

 

thanks

 

avishay

[Guest guest]

my understanding is that kpc herbs are adequate, but not the highest quality

available. i don't believe their herbs are organic. if you are looking for

high quality, organic herbs, i would recommend to you asia naturals. they

have diff. distributors. in the us, i get them locally from golden needle

in candler, nc.

 

in regards to dosing: 1pack/2days is standard dosing in the us. i do this

myself with good results, however, i dose the herbs on the high end and use

avg 20-25herbs per px (this is unusual). the bags therefore weigh more and

my actual dosing by weight is close to the standard 1bag/day as in the uk

and china.

 

hope this helps,

 

kath

 

 

 

 

On 2/17/07, avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin wrote:

>

> hi

>

> thanks for evrybody for the answers

> does anybody knows a herbs company named KPC, and if you do then how

> good are their raw herbs? is it good quality one?

>

> is it organic? and is one package will be enough for two days? or

> only for one day?

>

> thanks

>

> avishay

>

>

>

 

 

 

--

Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA

Oriental Medicine

Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

 

Asheville Center For

70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

kbartlett

www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

There are a few questions I think we should ask every herb company before we

dispense their products to our patients:

 

For instance,

Do they do third party lab tests, testing for heavy metals, preservatives,

molds and pesticides?

If not, why not?

 

If they claim to be " organic " , are they " Certified Organic " ?

There are two levels here, " organically grown " and " organically processed "

Organically grown is what you want,

anyone can send their raw products to a " organic processor " , get them washed

with clean water and

sun-dried and get a " organically processed " label.

Who is the " Organic certifier " ?

 

Then, there is the GMP certification, Good Manufacturing Practices sticker,

which is the gold standard for International Heavy Metals limit on products

and clean facilities/manufacturing.

If a company has the GMP certification (not just processed in GMP

conditions)

than the heavy metal counts on the herbs (mercury,cadmium,lead, and arsenic)

are below USDA standards and are deemed " safe " at least according to the

assumed industry standards (which do not legally exist).

Does the company have GMP Certification?

 

Between, third party lab tests, Organic certification and GMP certification,

if the company meets at least two of these,

then I personally would trust at least the purity of their herbs.

 

Of course, species identification and regions grown,

as well as the farms (soil, water, air, seed), farmers who tend to the

former, and preservation methods are all important.

 

There are a few reliable companies in the U.S.

Subbhuti Dharmananda wrote an informative article that is a must read:

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/cleanhrb.htm

 

k.

 

 

 

On 2/17/07, wrote:

>

> my understanding is that kpc herbs are adequate, but not the highest

> quality

> available. i don't believe their herbs are organic. if you are looking for

> high quality, organic herbs, i would recommend to you asia naturals. they

> have diff. distributors. in the us, i get them locally from golden needle

> in candler, nc.

>

> in regards to dosing: 1pack/2days is standard dosing in the us. i do this

> myself with good results, however, i dose the herbs on the high end and

> use

> avg 20-25herbs per px (this is unusual). the bags therefore weigh more and

> my actual dosing by weight is close to the standard 1bag/day as in the uk

> and china.

>

> hope this helps,

>

> kath

>

> On 2/17/07, avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin<avishay_yamin%40>>

> wrote:

> >

> > hi

> >

> > thanks for evrybody for the answers

> > does anybody knows a herbs company named KPC, and if you do then how

> > good are their raw herbs? is it good quality one?

> >

> > is it organic? and is one package will be enough for two days? or

> > only for one day?

> >

> > thanks

> >

> > avishay

> >

> >

> >

>

> --

>

> Oriental Medicine

> Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

>

> Asheville Center For

> 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

> Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

> kbartlett <kbartlett%40AcupunctureAsheville.com>

> www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

John,

 

You raise some interesting points. If you call something organic in

the UK, then it has to be certified and granted a license by the Soil

Association. They are a charity devoted to promoting organic foods.

 

However, i'm not sure this would apply to medicinal herbs. In Europe,

herbs were recently reclassified as either a food stuff or a

medicine. For example, Ginseng is classified as a food, whilst Fu

Ling is a medicine. So if you say this is organic Ginseng then it

would need a license from the Soil Association. The question is, does

this apply to organic herbal medicines as well? Does anyone know?

 

GMP use is common in the UK, but I've only seen it applied to patents

and not dried, raw herbs.

 

Attilio

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

 

Chinese Medicine , " "

<johnkokko wrote:

>

> There are a few questions I think we should ask every herb company

before we

> dispense their products to our patients:

>

> For instance,

> Do they do third party lab tests, testing for heavy metals,

preservatives,

> molds and pesticides?

> If not, why not?

>

> If they claim to be " organic " , are they " Certified Organic " ?

> There are two levels here, " organically grown " and " organically

processed "

> Organically grown is what you want,

> anyone can send their raw products to a " organic processor " , get

them washed

> with clean water and

> sun-dried and get a " organically processed " label.

> Who is the " Organic certifier " ?

>

> Then, there is the GMP certification, Good Manufacturing Practices

sticker,

> which is the gold standard for International Heavy Metals limit on

products

> and clean facilities/manufacturing.

> If a company has the GMP certification (not just processed in GMP

> conditions)

> than the heavy metal counts on the herbs (mercury,cadmium,lead, and

arsenic)

> are below USDA standards and are deemed " safe " at least according

to the

> assumed industry standards (which do not legally exist).

> Does the company have GMP Certification?

>

> Between, third party lab tests, Organic certification and GMP

certification,

> if the company meets at least two of these,

> then I personally would trust at least the purity of their herbs.

>

> Of course, species identification and regions grown,

> as well as the farms (soil, water, air, seed), farmers who tend to

the

> former, and preservation methods are all important.

>

> There are a few reliable companies in the U.S.

> Subbhuti Dharmananda wrote an informative article that is a must

read:

> http://www.itmonline.org/arts/cleanhrb.htm

>

> k.

>

>

>

> On 2/17/07, wrote:

> >

> > my understanding is that kpc herbs are adequate, but not the

highest

> > quality

> > available. i don't believe their herbs are organic. if you are

looking for

> > high quality, organic herbs, i would recommend to you asia

naturals. they

> > have diff. distributors. in the us, i get them locally from

golden needle

> > in candler, nc.

> >

> > in regards to dosing: 1pack/2days is standard dosing in the us. i

do this

> > myself with good results, however, i dose the herbs on the high

end and

> > use

> > avg 20-25herbs per px (this is unusual). the bags therefore weigh

more and

> > my actual dosing by weight is close to the standard 1bag/day as

in the uk

> > and china.

> >

> > hope this helps,

> >

> > kath

> >

> > On 2/17/07, avishay_yamin <avishay_yamin<avishay_yamin%

40>>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > hi

> > >

> > > thanks for evrybody for the answers

> > > does anybody knows a herbs company named KPC, and if you do

then how

> > > good are their raw herbs? is it good quality one?

> > >

> > > is it organic? and is one package will be enough for two days?

or

> > > only for one day?

> > >

> > > thanks

> > >

> > > avishay

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > --

> >

> > Oriental Medicine

> > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

> >

> > Asheville Center For

> > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

> > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

> > kbartlett <kbartlett%40AcupunctureAsheville.com>

> > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

There may well be culture-bound dimensions to herbal treatment, as

there are to acupuncture (Chinese taste for strong stimulation (the

Yellow Emperor said so); Japanese the opposite).

 

A topic not much discussed or taught in TCM, but a great article in

the book " Innovation in " (Ed. Elizabeth Hsu, 2001):

" Robust northerners and delicate southerners: 19th Century invention

of a southern medical tradition " pp262-292.

 

(Thanks to Z'ev for bringing up this book here recently, and I'm sure

he found this article particularly interesting, having a keen

interest in both SHL and wenbing traditions.)

 

The article analyzes 19th Century literature showing the formation

(before and after) of a quasi formal wenbing school of authors. Two

focal standpoints were: 1) SHL contained it all, and the " new " ideas

were splitting off from tradition, or 2) new insights and

interpretations are just furthering the tradition of refinement in

one's own time on the basis of the classics (SHL). Another, clearly

related focus (as per the title), was whether the medicine should be

considered universal (all people, all times and places), or

customized. In their context, the customization had to do with

climatalogical adaptation. More generally, perhaps, an appropriate

topic in our day and age might be customization according to

lifestyle and (technological) environment.

 

Interesting also are the multiple perspectives given on the 4 great

Masters, i.e. were they revisionists or traditional commentators? And

were there 4, and specifically 4 with or without Zhu DanXi instead of

Shang Ji, or were there 8 Masters?

 

Interesting because, here we are, 21st Century, carrying on, as best,

similar discussions.

 

 

 

 

--

 

 

Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.1/691 - Release 2/17/2007 5:06

PM

[Guest guest]

Hi Group,

 

I'm not sure I agree that 1 bag/2 days is the standard in the US, and that 1

bag/day is standard in China. As far as I can tell, there really is no

standard and people are doing all sorts of things in the US and in China.

I've spent a total of over 4 years living, studying and practicing in China

and have seen a lot of different docs practicing, and have also studied and

practiced in San Francisco and seen lots of different things there as well.

In China it is prevalent to prescribe one bag/day, but there are some who

will use one bag for 2 days, including one of my main teachers, who

generally uses one bag for 2 days unless the patient's condition is on the

more severe or acute side in which case he'll use one bag per day. I tend to

follow his style in my practice here and when I was practicing in the US I

did much the same. But one of my main teachers in SF usually uses one bag

per day. Both these docs use pretty small prescriptions (only occasionally

over 12 herbs, and very light doses, and they get good results because

they're both very skilled), which is what I strive to do as well, although

I'm not nearly as good at is these two teachers. There are also lots of docs

here in China (western and Chinese medicine) that rely on the money they

earn from their prescriptions (they get a percentage of the sales) to make a

living, So there's lots of over-prescribing, and I've seen docs write

formulas with 25+ herbs, all dosed very very high, to be taken one bag per

day. I can't help but think that the money is influencing their prescribing.

I'm not saying that using a large number of herbs is inherently bad, though,

as Shi Jin Mo (one of Beijing's 4 Great CM Docs of the 20th century) is

famous for using a large number of herbs in his prescriptions, but the

dosage of each herb is generally very light, so different than what I just

described. In any case, my point is that, in my experience, there is more

plurality in practice than " standard " .

 

As for herb quality, it's true that the majority of China's high quality

herbs are exported, but they mostly go to Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong,

and only a bit goes to the west. I know a lot about this as I also work part

time for an herb export company here in China. Most of the herbs sent to the

US are of low to mediocre quality, although some of the herbs imported for

the CM professional market are of good quality. The low quality is what the

supplement manufacturers want (a scary thought for those who like to take

supplements). So the quality used in the US varies a lot and it really

depends where you get your herbs. As for mainland China, most of the herbs

used in the large hospitals in my experience are low to medium quality. Some

docs say they dose higher because of this, but I've seen others that still

dose low and get good results. That said, there are now many wealthy people

in China and the demand for high quality herbs is real and growing and top

quality herbs can be had here at some pharmacies like Beijing Tong Ren Tang,

Hangzhou's Hu Qing Yu Tang, etc. (If you have $100,000USD you can get ONE of

their wild ginseng roots!) I work near Hu Qin Yu Tang, and there's a Tong

Ren Tang right up the street as well, and I send my patients to these shops

for herbs- the quality is really nice, and the selection of herbs and

variety of pao zhi methods is phenomenal- if I only knew how to use all the

herbs they have!

 

Anyhow, my 2+ cents. :-)

 

Happy New Year to you all!

 

Greg

 

--

Greg A. Livingston, PhD(candidate), L.Ac.

PR China, 310002

Zhejiang Province, Hangzhou

Si Tiao Xiang 23, #602

mobile: 86-571-8171-2217

http://www.myspace.com/doclivy