TCM - clarification on some gyn issues

March 18, 2006

I'd be very interested in more information about herbs to treat HPV. I have

a patient who has anal HPV and is also HIV+. I started treating him 6

months ago when he was on a meds holiday from protease inhibitors, but now he

just

recently went back on 3 different meds. He (reinforced by friends) seems to

think that he shouldn't take herbs if he's taking the PI's.

--RoseAnne

March 18, 2006

I think it would be nice to know more about the medical application of

certain herbs in China but would also like to know more about the particular

patient and their illness pattern. I have moved away from a TCM only type

of practice for many reasons, including a lack of trust in current medical

diagnostic ability, which it seems that TCM relies heavily upon. I am

looking to hear more about the patient functioning than a medical disease.

Could we hear more about your system findings - pulse, tongue and abdominal

palpation (if performed)? In these types of cases, I am curious as to what

is being done to help these systems or strengthen the person and their

ability to eliminate the illness. Thanks

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

>ra6151

>Chinese Medicine

> Re: TCM - clarification on some gyn issues

>Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:28:14 EST

>

>I'd be very interested in more information about herbs to treat HPV. I

>have

>a patient who has anal HPV and is also HIV+. I started treating him 6

>months ago when he was on a meds holiday from protease inhibitors, but now

>he just

>recently went back on 3 different meds. He (reinforced by friends) seems

>to

>think that he shouldn't take herbs if he's taking the PI's.

>

>--RoseAnne

>

March 19, 2006

Hi there,

probably the most important herb for herpes and HPV infection is Ban

Lan Gen, and is used in quite high doses in China, (30g or more per

formula), although I wouldnt use higher than normal doses. Partly

the higher doses in China are because the quality of the herbs used

there for your average patient, is not as good as those that are

exported overseas. Youd think it would be the other way around, but

anyway....

It can be used in formulae to prevent outbreaks, in which case you

would use herbs to support the wei qi and the liver as well.

With herpes, once the person has an outbreak you need to clear the

dampness and heat and dredge whatever meridian they turn up on,

generally liver and gallbladder from my experience. So herbs such as

the three yellows (huang qin, huang lian, huang bai) long dan cao

and ku shen, zhi zi etc are good. In terms of western herbal

medicine, the best herbs to use are melissa officinalis and

sometimes St. Johns Wort (Hypericum), although in your patients case

this would not be reccommended, as to my knowledge this is a herb

that really should be avoided in patients with HIV as it can

interact with antiretrovirals. (Not to mention reduce the efficacy

of the oral contraceptive pill and increase the metabolism of

certain chemotherapy agents, which you dont want if your on chemo.)

I remember that there are other specific herbs that are used for HPV

infection, although Ban Lan Gen is the primary herb, but the info is

in my hospital log book from china, which is in a box somewhere and

needs to be located. (We just moved house interstate.) As soon as I

find it I can forward the info. Its worth noting though that

patients did have their warts burnt off whilst undergoing herbal

treatment. (They would suction up the debris and blow it out a fan

set into the window, into the busy main road, after I learnt this, I

used to avoid walking past that bit of the hospital on a thursday,

which was when they scheduled all the wart cases to be treated in

outpatients dermatology. Call me finicky. And if you were very, very

good, the doctor might let you hold the suction tube......but I

digress.)

I think that it is OK to use certain herbs as a " magic bullet " herb

and the key herb in a formula when it has been found that they are

specifically antiviral for that virus etc. Or if they are just

specifically indicated for a certain disease (such as pu gong ying

for vitiligo etc), because the rest of the formula is prescribed

according to their personal differentiation anyway. Also, some

diseases, such as HPV, shingles etc, do actually present in almost

the same way in the majority of cases, even if there are differences

in patient constitutions underlying it. I think it is reasonable and

very usefull to integrate western medicine and chinese medicine.

They are not as mutually exclusive as some people would like to

think. Even if all western medicine gives you in some cases is a

diagnosis of exclusion (in other words they cant work out what is

wrong) this is a wonderful indication for chinese medicine treatment

and gives the practitioner and the patient some peace of mind.

regards,

Lea.

Chinese Medicine , ra6151

wrote:

>

> I'd be very interested in more information about herbs to treat

HPV. I have

> a patient who has anal HPV and is also HIV+. I started treating

him 6

> months ago when he was on a meds holiday from protease inhibitors,

but now he just

> recently went back on 3 different meds. He (reinforced by

friends) seems to

> think that he shouldn't take herbs if he's taking the PI's.

>

> --RoseAnne

>

March 19, 2006

I think one needs to be careful of kneejerk use of cold herbs in HPV. I have

treated many post herpetic neuralgia in patients with hot formulas including the

use of fu zi. I have also treated a few patients during the acute episode with

warm formulas.

Oakland, CA 94609

-

leabun1

Chinese Medicine

Saturday, March 18, 2006 5:33 PM

Re: clarification on some gyn issues