Earning a living

April 27, 2005

I agree. This is the most essential step in the evolution of our

profession. There is no room for divisiveness in public education

efforts.

On Apr 27, 2005, at 1:16 PM, Matt Bauer wrote:

>

> The following was cut from my original message below - Matt Bauer

> " Just as importantly, a good public outreach effort will help connect

> our profession with the public thus leading to a much better ability

> to enlist grassroots public support for issues like passing Medicare

> legislation. The list of benefits goes on... It all begins with a

> conscious effort to concentrate on what we have in common rather than

> what we disagree on and making public education THE priority. "

April 27, 2005

Ray,

No need to take offense or become hostile. I do not recall Pete

specifically asking for personal help with his emotions but I could be

wrong. Why don't you ask him if this is what he wants instead of telling

him? I think that he was making comments about his perceptions of the

profession when everyone jumped in on him.

What if Pete's anger issues with the profession can be solved with greater

communication and involvement, shouldn't we try to improve the profession?

There are many graduates out there that do not make it in our profession and

it would be nice to reverse this nasty trend. What about their frustrations

and anger? Do we just ignore the trend and try to manage this only on an

individual's emotional level? I would hope not.

I am not interested in being a spokeman for our profession but I can say

that I have seen and experienced enough concern that I can see where Pete is

coming from. By the way, Ray, I would love to hear how one increases the

income of poorer living areas so that patients can afford our services like

where Pete claims to live. Our country is going thru some tough economic

times, the likes of which we have not seen since the Great Depression. Does

my admission of this fact offend you?

Have some empathy for Pete as he appears to be feeling a normal reaction to

bad economic times.

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

> " ray ford " <rford

>Chinese Medicine

><Chinese Medicine >

>RE: Earning a living

>Thu, 28 Apr 2005 08:23:07 +1000

>

>Mike ,you have not heard a thing. Pete said the same thing soooo.. many

>times it SEEMED obvious to me at least that he wanted help. This is a

>forum of interaction, advice is common AND if you have a look back Pete

>did keep the thread going by asking questions and making blanket

>statements. Since you " speak " for " the profession " and " know " what all

>the inherent problems are that need fixing, I'll leave it to you.

>Ray Ford

>

>Chinese Medicine

>Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike

>Bowser

>Thursday, 28 April 2005 3:58 AM

>Chinese Medicine

>RE: Earning a living

>

>Ray,

>

>This is a part of life here in America and probably elsewhere as well.

>I do

>not recall Pete asking for yours or mine or anyone else's individual

>help.

>Lest I forgot something, ethics allows us to work with people only with

>an

>informed consent. I do not think that Pete brought these issues up in

>order

>to be pathologized. I have noticed a tendency for us to pass judgement

>or

>that one who is making mention is somehow ill. Based upon his

>observations,

>I can say that our profession needs more help than Pete does. It is

>healthy

>and normal to be expressive. You seem to have a solution for Pete but

>do

>you have one for the profession?

>

>Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

>

> > " ray ford " <rford

> >Chinese Medicine

> ><Chinese Medicine >

> >RE: Earning a living

> >Thu, 28 Apr 2005 03:15:18 +1000

> >

> >Mike,

> >I was not suggesting that ANYONE wish anything away. Pete has poured

>his

> >heart out on this forum and really I can see his posts as a call for

> >help which is being offered by so many. This does not negate Pete's

> > " truth " but he is in pain and your playing devil's advocate and telling

> >him " yeah, we all agree ain " t it all bad and here is the TRUTH, and you

> >hold onto that truth " is not helping at all. So much has to be done,

>you

> >are so right there, education, co-operation etc but FIRST of all there

> >has to be a reason to get out of bed in the morning, playing the " aint

> >it all so bad tape " is a mighty strong reason to pull the covers over

> >and go back to sleep.

> >Ray Ford

> >

> >Chinese Medicine

> >Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike

> >Bowser

> >Thursday, 28 April 2005 2:52 AM

> >Chinese Medicine

> >RE: Earning a living

> >

> >Ray,

> >

> >I think that I was suggesting an all-inclusive focus on solutions as

> >well at

> >least that was my intention.

> >

> >Additionally, I would have to say then that we disagree with

>perceptions

> >of

> >things and whether we continue to wish it away and ignore it or admit

>it

> >

> >exists and change it. I believe that we need to be courageous in

> >admitting

> >the truth to ourselves instead of trying to placate those with other

> >views.

> >There is room for all of us.

> >

> >I do appreciate your view and dialogue and hope that all of us can

> >better

> >create that unity that we seek.

> >

> >Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

> >

> > > " ray ford " <rford

> > >Chinese Medicine

> > ><Chinese Medicine >

> > >RE: Earning a living

> > >Thu, 28 Apr 2005 02:26:44 +1000

> > >

> > >I disagree with you mike,

> > >The intent behind any of my words is to actually help Pete; this will

> > >not be done by re-enforcing his views which are causing him pain. As

> >for

> > >the " truth " of course if we all look at something the same way we may

> > >call that " truth " If other practitioners (many)see things another way

> > >does this make it " false " The point is " does it help " OR " does it

>cause

> > >more pain? " Surely what is needed here is solutions NOT a constant

> >focus

> > >on a " PART " of the picture.

> > >Ray Ford

> > >

> > >Chinese Medicine

> > >Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

>mike

> > >Bowser

> > >Thursday, 28 April 2005 1:37 AM

> > >Chinese Medicine

> > >Re: Earning a living

> > >

> > >Matt,

> > >I think that maybe some on this post have been a little hard on Pete

> >for

> > >

> > >stating what many of us may have observed and acknowledged. We do

>not

> > >want

> > >to become a society or profession that is afraid to speak the truth

> >even

> > >if

> > >it is unpopular. I admire Pete for speaking his opinion. I have

> > >witnessed

> > >some of what has been mentioned here as well. The association in MN

> >has

> > >

> > >been very dysfunctional and prevented our profession from moving

> > >forward.

> > >There is not public presence and attempts to change the legislation

>to

> > >allow

> > >L Ac insurance parity are defeated from within. Some of us might

>like

> > >challenges but constant problems like these can add to our own

> > >difficulties

> > >with practice development. It is good for Pete and all of us to take

> > >note

> > >of these issues, especially if we want to improve things. First the

> > >problem

> > >needs to be acknowledged before changes can occur. While there may

>be

> > >things that Pete and all of us can do to better market ourselves it

>is

> > >also

> > >helpful for us to have a professional presence both nationally and

> > >locally

> > >in all states. In order to succeed in this we need to agree to work

> > >together as a collective, somewhat like what the Republican party has

> > >done

> > >recently with nicer tactics.

> > >

> > >Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

> > >

> > > > " Turiya Hill " <turiya

> > > >Chinese Medicine

> > > ><Chinese Medicine >

> > > >Re: Earning a living

> > > >Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:32:00 -0700

> > > >

> > > >Pete

> > > >

> > > > Sorry to have to be the one to call you on this

> >Brother.......my

> > > >general impression of your responses is one of whining and

>excessive

> > > >negativity towards the suggestions offerred you.

> > > > Listen...if you are truly in this work to practice the art of

> > >healing

> > > >and serve others all else will naturally ,and in due course,

>follow.

> >I

> > > >would really suggest you get involved in a therapeutic/ counseling

> > > >relationship with someone with whom you are comfortable....and

>start

> > >the

> > > >healing and the prosperity with yourself.

> > > > -

> > > > Pete Theisen

> > > > Chinese Medicine

> > > > Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:50 PM

> > > > Re: Earning a living

> > > >

> > > > Matt Bauer wrote:

> > > >

> > > > <snip>

> > > >

> > > > > calls for people working collectively

> > > >

> > > > Hi Matt!

> > > >

> > > > Nice idea, but people in *this* profession won't work

> >collectively.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Pete

> > > >

> > > > To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web link

> > >page,

> > > >http://babel.altavista.com/

> > > >

> > > > and

> > >adjust

> > > >accordingly.

> > > >

> > > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside

> >the

> > >

> > > >group requires prior permission from the author.

> > > >

> > > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other

> > >academics,

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >-----

> > >-------

> > > >

April 28, 2005

Dear Colleagues,

As Executive Director of one of the national organizations (AOMAlliance), I

have been following these postings with considerable interest. Matt Bauer and I

have spoken extensively about this need for public education about our

profession. I am in full agreement with him and have pledged my full support

for his efforts to bring resources together. There is no need for dissension or

division when it comes to offering this medicine as an important means to

improve public health. There are no meaningful political differences about

this, and we must work together. The Alliance will always be ready to do so!

Until such an entity is formed, one of the most important tasks of my

organization is to work on precisely this kind of education of the public. We

regard it as a high priority and we are doing more than many may realize to

spread the word through various public media. We have been responsible for the

placement of hundreds of news stories in national, international, and even local

outlets over the last nine months. I have written hundreds of letters and

emails and made more hundreds of telephone calls.

The problem that prevents us from accomplishing much more is always the lack of

resources. I cannot afford to hire a staff member to work in public relations,

but try to juggle that responsibility along with all the other tasks of running

the association. This organization is supported almost entirely by the

membership dues paid by practitioners and consumers. The more members, the more

resources. The more resources, the more we can do. It is fine for people to

complain about how little the national organizations do (although I am very

proud of what we have accomplished!) but they need to understand that we are

limited by the support we receive. If you want to see more accomplished, please

help us!

Michael McCoy, Ph.D.

Executive Director

AOMAlliance

--

Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.3 - Release 4/25/2005

April 28, 2005

Doc wrote:

<snip>

> I was even able to build a solid practice when I lived in Hong Kong.

<snip>

> take a positive approach I will gladly share my not so secret

> secrets to building a practice.

>

Hi Doc!

Ok, for sake of discussion I will turn on the " positive approach " . Tell

me how you succeeded in Hong Cong.

Regards,

Pete

April 28, 2005

ray ford wrote:

> I disagree with you mike, The intent behind any of my words is to

> actually help Pete; this will

Hi Ray!

I do appreciate your good intention.

Regards,

Pete

April 28, 2005

Thomas Bøgedal Sørensen wrote:

> Try this on for size:

>

> Trying too hard to make money is much like trying too hard to reach

> enlightenment - ambition will make it extremely difficult if not impossible!

>

> There are a few things that are important in running a business - don't

> TRY to make a lot of money

<snip>

> Been in clinic

> since February now - within app. 2 months - I am seeing patients equiv.

> to about 30% of my capacity... this figure is still on the rise....

> including the number of MDs on my patient list

Hi Dr. Thomas!

Glad it's working out for you.

Regards,

Pete

April 28, 2005

Matt Bauer wrote:

<snip>

> concentrate on what we have in common rather than what we disagree on

> and making public education THE priority.

>

> I would be happy to devote myself to such an effort but it would only

> be successful with the support of the existing organizations. -

> Matthew Bauer

Hi Matt!

Interesting post. I wonder how supportive our organizations are of each

other?

Regards,

Pete

April 28, 2005

As Michael stated, he and I have had many discussions about the need for

public education and in all honesty and at the risk of offending other

leaders in the OM field, Michael is the first person in a leadership role I

have met over the years that really gets it. I also want to state I think

these organizations have made progress in public outreach and the Alliance

perhaps more so, but I truly feel this should be job #1. I didn't offer my

comments in this subject to criticize any group, I chimed in because I

wanted to share my ideas for how all of us could be more financially secure

while helping more of the public we seek to serve. - Matthew Bauer

-

" Director " <director

Wednesday, April 27, 2005 4:21 PM

RE: Earning a living

>

> Dear Colleagues,

> As Executive Director of one of the national organizations (AOMAlliance),

I have been following these postings with considerable interest. Matt Bauer

and I have spoken extensively about this need for public education about our

profession. I am in full agreement with him and have pledged my full

support for his efforts to bring resources together. There is no need for

dissension or division when it comes to offering this medicine as an

important means to improve public health. There are no meaningful political

differences about this, and we must work together. The Alliance will always

be ready to do so!

> Until such an entity is formed, one of the most important tasks of my

organization is to work on precisely this kind of education of the public.

We regard it as a high priority and we are doing more than many may realize

to spread the word through various public media. We have been responsible

for the placement of hundreds of news stories in national, international,

and even local outlets over the last nine months. I have written hundreds

of letters and emails and made more hundreds of telephone calls.

> The problem that prevents us from accomplishing much more is always the

lack of resources. I cannot afford to hire a staff member to work in public

relations, but try to juggle that responsibility along with all the other

tasks of running the association. This organization is supported almost

entirely by the membership dues paid by practitioners and consumers. The

more members, the more resources. The more resources, the more we can do.

It is fine for people to complain about how little the national

organizations do (although I am very proud of what we have accomplished!)

but they need to understand that we are limited by the support we receive.

If you want to see more accomplished, please help us!

>

> Michael McCoy, Ph.D.

> Executive Director

> AOMAlliance

>

> --

>

> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.3 - Release 4/25/2005

>

http://babel.altavista.com/

>

and adjust

accordingly.

>

April 28, 2005

OUCH- Lots of liver qi stagnation around here.

It seems we, as professionals, are more divided than united. Let's work on a

collective consciousness

and strive for the same stuff.

When in school, I felt I'd be meeting kindred spirit, but to my surprise, half

my class went into this " calling " for the money. Not judging...... but not my

cup of tea.

Competitive airs instead of helpful comments. Who's got to be right? Who's got

to be the best? Who knows the most??

Who cares!

Let's gather hands across the world and become what we study and share our

success and failures. Peace begins with one kind gesture towards another.

Can we rise above what this country's lack of consciousness has led us into?

Please let's try.

Hopefully

Joan

-

ray ford

Wednesday, April 27, 2005 6:25 PM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Earning a living

Mike ,you have not heard a thing. Pete said the same thing soooo.. many

times it SEEMED obvious to me at least that he wanted help. This is a

forum of interaction, advice is common AND if you have a look back Pete

did keep the thread going by asking questions and making blanket

statements. Since you " speak " for " the profession " and " know " what all

the inherent problems are that need fixing, I'll leave it to you.

Ray Ford

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike

Bowser

Thursday, 28 April 2005 3:58 AM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Earning a living

Ray,

This is a part of life here in America and probably elsewhere as well.

I do

not recall Pete asking for yours or mine or anyone else's individual

help.

Lest I forgot something, ethics allows us to work with people only with

an

informed consent. I do not think that Pete brought these issues up in

order

to be pathologized. I have noticed a tendency for us to pass judgement

or

that one who is making mention is somehow ill. Based upon his

observations,

I can say that our profession needs more help than Pete does. It is

healthy

and normal to be expressive. You seem to have a solution for Pete but

do

you have one for the profession?

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

> " ray ford " <rford

>Chinese Medicine

><Chinese Medicine >

>RE: Earning a living

>Thu, 28 Apr 2005 03:15:18 +1000

>

>Mike,

>I was not suggesting that ANYONE wish anything away. Pete has poured

his

>heart out on this forum and really I can see his posts as a call for

>help which is being offered by so many. This does not negate Pete's

> " truth " but he is in pain and your playing devil's advocate and telling

>him " yeah, we all agree ain " t it all bad and here is the TRUTH, and you

>hold onto that truth " is not helping at all. So much has to be done,

you

>are so right there, education, co-operation etc but FIRST of all there

>has to be a reason to get out of bed in the morning, playing the " aint

>it all so bad tape " is a mighty strong reason to pull the covers over

>and go back to sleep.

>Ray Ford

>

>Chinese Medicine

>Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike

>Bowser

>Thursday, 28 April 2005 2:52 AM

>Chinese Medicine

>RE: Earning a living

>

>Ray,

>

>I think that I was suggesting an all-inclusive focus on solutions as

>well at

>least that was my intention.

>

>Additionally, I would have to say then that we disagree with

perceptions

>of

>things and whether we continue to wish it away and ignore it or admit

it

>

>exists and change it. I believe that we need to be courageous in

>admitting

>the truth to ourselves instead of trying to placate those with other

>views.

>There is room for all of us.

>

>I do appreciate your view and dialogue and hope that all of us can

>better

>create that unity that we seek.

>

>Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

>

> > " ray ford " <rford

> >Chinese Medicine

> ><Chinese Medicine >

> >RE: Earning a living

> >Thu, 28 Apr 2005 02:26:44 +1000

> >

> >I disagree with you mike,

> >The intent behind any of my words is to actually help Pete; this will

> >not be done by re-enforcing his views which are causing him pain. As

>for

> >the " truth " of course if we all look at something the same way we may

> >call that " truth " If other practitioners (many)see things another way

> >does this make it " false " The point is " does it help " OR " does it

cause

> >more pain? " Surely what is needed here is solutions NOT a constant

>focus

> >on a " PART " of the picture.

> >Ray Ford

> >

> >Chinese Medicine

> >Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

mike

> >Bowser

> >Thursday, 28 April 2005 1:37 AM

> >Chinese Medicine

> >Re: Earning a living

> >

> >Matt,

> >I think that maybe some on this post have been a little hard on Pete

>for

> >

> >stating what many of us may have observed and acknowledged. We do

not

> >want

> >to become a society or profession that is afraid to speak the truth

>even

> >if

> >it is unpopular. I admire Pete for speaking his opinion. I have

> >witnessed

> >some of what has been mentioned here as well. The association in MN

>has

> >

> >been very dysfunctional and prevented our profession from moving

> >forward.

> >There is not public presence and attempts to change the legislation

to

> >allow

> >L Ac insurance parity are defeated from within. Some of us might

like

> >challenges but constant problems like these can add to our own

> >difficulties

> >with practice development. It is good for Pete and all of us to take

> >note

> >of these issues, especially if we want to improve things. First the

> >problem

> >needs to be acknowledged before changes can occur. While there may

be

> >things that Pete and all of us can do to better market ourselves it

is

> >also

> >helpful for us to have a professional presence both nationally and

> >locally

> >in all states. In order to succeed in this we need to agree to work

> >together as a collective, somewhat like what the Republican party has

> >done

> >recently with nicer tactics.

> >

> >Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

> >

> > > " Turiya Hill " <turiya

> > >Chinese Medicine

> > ><Chinese Medicine >

> > >Re: Earning a living

> > >Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:32:00 -0700

> > >

> > >Pete

> > >

> > > Sorry to have to be the one to call you on this

>Brother.......my

> > >general impression of your responses is one of whining and

excessive

> > >negativity towards the suggestions offerred you.

> > > Listen...if you are truly in this work to practice the art of

> >healing

> > >and serve others all else will naturally ,and in due course,

follow.

>I

> > >would really suggest you get involved in a therapeutic/ counseling

> > >relationship with someone with whom you are comfortable....and

start

> >the

> > >healing and the prosperity with yourself.

> > > -

> > > Pete Theisen

> > > Chinese Medicine

> > > Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:50 PM

> > > Re: Earning a living

> > >

> > > Matt Bauer wrote:

> > >

> > > <snip>

> > >

> > > > calls for people working collectively

> > >

> > > Hi Matt!

> > >

> > > Nice idea, but people in *this* profession won't work

>collectively.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Pete

> > >

> > > To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web link

> >page,

> > >http://babel.altavista.com/

> > >

> > > and

> >adjust

> > >accordingly.

> > >

> > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside

>the

> >

> > >group requires prior permission from the author.

> > >

> > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other

> >academics,

> > >

> >

>

>-----

> >-------

> > >

April 28, 2005

Joan Tirro wrote:

> OUCH- Lots of liver qi stagnation around here. It seems we, as

> professionals, are more divided than united. Let's work on a

> collective consciousness and strive for the same stuff. When in

> school, I felt I'd be meeting kindred spirit, but to my surprise,

> half my class went into this " calling " for the money. Not

> judging...... but not my cup of tea.

Hi Joan!

Oh come on, are you in practice? You know you have to pay the bills, the

student loans and oh, yeah, make your own living unless someone else is

doing that for you.

Liver qi stagnation indeed!

Regards,

Pete

April 28, 2005

Make your life your work and your work your life.

Naste,

Ed Kasper LAc Santa Cruz, CA

April 28, 2005

Mike, you are right,

Pete did not ask, but he has acknowledged my intentions and others, so

that is what counts. I did become frustrated with your posts as you did

not seem to read what I was actually saying. I do feel for Pete, just

because my response was not as Buddhist as you would have liked doesn't

mean I don't understand. Pete(sorry to talk about you Pete) has opened

up this thread and continued it by raising the ire of many with some

quite contentious assertions.

When such strong assertions are made, it is bound to create a strong

response in return, other practitioners are allowed to put their version

of reality out there too. This is why so many people have joined this

thread, quite a few upset with what Pete has to say or assume Pete's

posts have contained quite a lot of judgements which no-one really asked

for.

I agree with Pete though in that the debate has been good and brought a

very important issue into focus. Lots of great advice from so many great

practitioners has been enlightening for me anyhow.

Problems in the USA and how to fix them? I haven't got a clue. Honora

answered the question about treating in poorer communities, read her

post.

No hard feelings Mike

Ray Ford

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike

Bowser

Thursday, 28 April 2005 8:53 AM

Chinese Medicine

RE: Earning a living

Ray,

No need to take offense or become hostile. I do not recall Pete

specifically asking for personal help with his emotions but I could be

wrong. Why don't you ask him if this is what he wants instead of

telling

him? I think that he was making comments about his perceptions of the

profession when everyone jumped in on him.

What if Pete's anger issues with the profession can be solved with

greater

communication and involvement, shouldn't we try to improve the

profession?

There are many graduates out there that do not make it in our profession

and

it would be nice to reverse this nasty trend. What about their

frustrations

and anger? Do we just ignore the trend and try to manage this only on

an

individual's emotional level? I would hope not.

I am not interested in being a spokeman for our profession but I can say

that I have seen and experienced enough concern that I can see where

Pete is

coming from. By the way, Ray, I would love to hear how one increases

the

income of poorer living areas so that patients can afford our services

like

where Pete claims to live. Our country is going thru some tough

economic

times, the likes of which we have not seen since the Great Depression.

Does

my admission of this fact offend you?

Have some empathy for Pete as he appears to be feeling a normal reaction

to

bad economic times.

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

> " ray ford " <rford

>Chinese Medicine

><Chinese Medicine >

>RE: Earning a living

>Thu, 28 Apr 2005 08:23:07 +1000

>

>Mike ,you have not heard a thing. Pete said the same thing soooo.. many

>times it SEEMED obvious to me at least that he wanted help. This is a

>forum of interaction, advice is common AND if you have a look back Pete

>did keep the thread going by asking questions and making blanket

>statements. Since you " speak " for " the profession " and " know " what all

>the inherent problems are that need fixing, I'll leave it to you.

>Ray Ford

>

>Chinese Medicine

>Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike

>Bowser

>Thursday, 28 April 2005 3:58 AM

>Chinese Medicine

>RE: Earning a living

>

>Ray,

>

>This is a part of life here in America and probably elsewhere as well.

>I do

>not recall Pete asking for yours or mine or anyone else's individual

>help.

>Lest I forgot something, ethics allows us to work with people only with

>an

>informed consent. I do not think that Pete brought these issues up in

>order

>to be pathologized. I have noticed a tendency for us to pass judgement

>or

>that one who is making mention is somehow ill. Based upon his

>observations,

>I can say that our profession needs more help than Pete does. It is

>healthy

>and normal to be expressive. You seem to have a solution for Pete but

>do

>you have one for the profession?

>

>Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

>

> > " ray ford " <rford

> >Chinese Medicine

> ><Chinese Medicine >

> >RE: Earning a living

> >Thu, 28 Apr 2005 03:15:18 +1000

> >

> >Mike,

> >I was not suggesting that ANYONE wish anything away. Pete has poured

>his

> >heart out on this forum and really I can see his posts as a call for

> >help which is being offered by so many. This does not negate Pete's

> > " truth " but he is in pain and your playing devil's advocate and

telling

> >him " yeah, we all agree ain " t it all bad and here is the TRUTH, and

you

> >hold onto that truth " is not helping at all. So much has to be done,

>you

> >are so right there, education, co-operation etc but FIRST of all

there

> >has to be a reason to get out of bed in the morning, playing the

" aint

> >it all so bad tape " is a mighty strong reason to pull the covers over

> >and go back to sleep.

> >Ray Ford

> >

> >Chinese Medicine

> >Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

mike

> >Bowser

> >Thursday, 28 April 2005 2:52 AM

> >Chinese Medicine

> >RE: Earning a living

> >

> >Ray,

> >

> >I think that I was suggesting an all-inclusive focus on solutions as

> >well at

> >least that was my intention.

> >

> >Additionally, I would have to say then that we disagree with

>perceptions

> >of

> >things and whether we continue to wish it away and ignore it or admit

>it

> >

> >exists and change it. I believe that we need to be courageous in

> >admitting

> >the truth to ourselves instead of trying to placate those with other

> >views.

> >There is room for all of us.

> >

> >I do appreciate your view and dialogue and hope that all of us can

> >better

> >create that unity that we seek.

> >

> >Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

> >

> > > " ray ford " <rford

> > >Chinese Medicine

> > ><Chinese Medicine >

> > >RE: Earning a living

> > >Thu, 28 Apr 2005 02:26:44 +1000

> > >

> > >I disagree with you mike,

> > >The intent behind any of my words is to actually help Pete; this

will

> > >not be done by re-enforcing his views which are causing him pain.

As

> >for

> > >the " truth " of course if we all look at something the same way we

may

> > >call that " truth " If other practitioners (many)see things another

way

> > >does this make it " false " The point is " does it help " OR " does it

>cause

> > >more pain? " Surely what is needed here is solutions NOT a constant

> >focus

> > >on a " PART " of the picture.

> > >Ray Ford

> > >

> > >Chinese Medicine

> > >Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

>mike

> > >Bowser

> > >Thursday, 28 April 2005 1:37 AM

> > >Chinese Medicine

> > >Re: Earning a living

> > >

> > >Matt,

> > >I think that maybe some on this post have been a little hard on

Pete

> >for

> > >

> > >stating what many of us may have observed and acknowledged. We do

>not

> > >want

> > >to become a society or profession that is afraid to speak the truth

> >even

> > >if

> > >it is unpopular. I admire Pete for speaking his opinion. I have

> > >witnessed

> > >some of what has been mentioned here as well. The association in

MN

> >has

> > >

> > >been very dysfunctional and prevented our profession from moving

> > >forward.

> > >There is not public presence and attempts to change the legislation

>to

> > >allow

> > >L Ac insurance parity are defeated from within. Some of us might

>like

> > >challenges but constant problems like these can add to our own

> > >difficulties

> > >with practice development. It is good for Pete and all of us to

take

> > >note

> > >of these issues, especially if we want to improve things. First

the

> > >problem

> > >needs to be acknowledged before changes can occur. While there may

>be

> > >things that Pete and all of us can do to better market ourselves it

>is

> > >also

> > >helpful for us to have a professional presence both nationally and

> > >locally

> > >in all states. In order to succeed in this we need to agree to

work

> > >together as a collective, somewhat like what the Republican party

has

> > >done

> > >recently with nicer tactics.

> > >

> > >Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

> > >

> > > > " Turiya Hill " <turiya

> > > >Chinese Medicine

> > > ><Chinese Medicine >

> > > >Re: Earning a living

> > > >Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:32:00 -0700

> > > >

> > > >Pete

> > > >

> > > > Sorry to have to be the one to call you on this

> >Brother.......my

> > > >general impression of your responses is one of whining and

>excessive

> > > >negativity towards the suggestions offerred you.

> > > > Listen...if you are truly in this work to practice the art

of

> > >healing

> > > >and serve others all else will naturally ,and in due course,

>follow.

> >I

> > > >would really suggest you get involved in a therapeutic/

counseling

> > > >relationship with someone with whom you are comfortable....and

>start

> > >the

> > > >healing and the prosperity with yourself.

> > > > -

> > > > Pete Theisen

> > > > Chinese Medicine

> > > > Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:50 PM

> > > > Re: Earning a living

> > > >

> > > > Matt Bauer wrote:

> > > >

> > > > <snip>

> > > >

> > > > > calls for people working collectively

> > > >

> > > > Hi Matt!

> > > >

> > > > Nice idea, but people in *this* profession won't work

> >collectively.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Pete

> > > >

> > > > To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web

link

> > >page,

> > > >http://babel.altavista.com/

> > > >

and

> > >adjust

> > > >accordingly.

> > > >

> > > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication

outside

> >the

> > >

> > > >group requires prior permission from the author.

> > > >

> > > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other

> > >academics,

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>-----

> > >-------

> > > >

April 28, 2005

Hi Doc. I have been following these messages about earning a living, although

only I'm a third year student of TCM in Israel. I did, though, study and work

for many years as a reflexologist, and I also had a pretty large clientele, I

think mainly since I didn't really focus on " lack, " but was so enthralled with

the ability to help people, and also fascinated by the stories their feet would

tell me. I guess that it was just contagious! I would love to learn from your

experience and wisdom.

Joyce

-

Doc

Chinese Medicine

Wednesday, April 27, 2005 5:35 PM

Re: Earning a living

Pete,

If you want a set of proven ways to build a practice

no matter where you are I can give them to you.

Using these ideas I was even able to build a solid

practice when I lived in Hong Kong.

Too many pratitioners you say?

I had more than 6 in the same building and about two

dozen others in the few blocks surrounding my clinic.

The rest were Hong Kong Ren I was the only Gwai Lo

among the group.

Yet being a newcomer, a Jewish kid from thev States

etc I still built a practice that gave me money to

live on.

My secrets?

Well if you are actually ready to stop saying " yes

but... " and to take a positive approach I will gladly

share my not so secret secrets to building a practice.

Doc

--- Pete Theisen <petet wrote:

Doc wrote:

<snip>

>

> To the contrary Pete. Here in Colorado our

association has created

> just that type of cooperative efforts to

Hi Doc!

Well, I'm not saying it couldn't happen here, but I am

yet to see it.

The closest thing we have to working together is

health fairs - and you

have to pay big bucks to participate! I have never had

even one steady

patient come from them. Give away a lot of free

treatments, but when it

comes to permanent patients, none.

Regards,

Pete

To translate this message, copy and paste it into this

web link page, http://babel.altavista.com/

and adjust accordingly.

Messages are the property of the author. Any

duplication outside the group requires prior

permission from the author.

If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with

other academics,

April 28, 2005

Holmes:

Amen!

Joyce

-

dkakobad

Chinese Medicine

Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:10 PM

Re: Earning a living

There's a concept in Eastern lore, which says a healer has Shifa'A, or

does not.

Shifa'A is variously, clinical aptitude, the natural touch of the

healer, knowledge, which

can gained, wisdom, which can't, bedside manners, which are much like

the table side ones you

have at dinner, a pleasant style, a sedate nature.

And the last of all, the Touch!

And more interestingly, when the Ancients have applied this, they never

meant a moneyed

practice.

If you have Shifa'A, set up a practice under the first tree on the byway

to Byzantine, and

by nightfall you will have clientele.

Thus, like the Earth Pulse, if you have Shifa'A, you don't know it and

don;'t knows what

it feels like.

If you don't ....

You figure this one out.

Holmes.

April 28, 2005

Great Holmes:

Anne

joyce wrote:

> Holmes:

>

> Amen!

>

> Joyce

> -

> dkakobad

> Chinese Medicine

> Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:10 PM

> Re: Earning a living

>

> There's a concept in Eastern lore, which says a healer has Shifa'A, or

> does not.

>

> Shifa'A is variously, clinical aptitude, the natural touch of the

> healer, knowledge, which

> can gained, wisdom, which can't, bedside manners, which are much like

> the table side ones you

> have at dinner, a pleasant style, a sedate nature.

>

> And the last of all, the Touch!

>

> And more interestingly, when the Ancients have applied this, they never

> meant a moneyed

> practice.

>

> If you have Shifa'A, set up a practice under the first tree on the

> byway

> to Byzantine, and

> by nightfall you will have clientele.

>

> Thus, like the Earth Pulse, if you have Shifa'A, you don't know it and

> don;'t knows what

> it feels like.

>

> If you don't ....

>

> You figure this one out.

>

> Holmes.

>

April 28, 2005

Ray,

Appreciate your candor and willingness to help Pete. Many good things have

revealed themselves both for an individual (this thread) as well as a

profession (see Mathew Bauer responses). I have a sneeky suspicion that

many more like Pete may be dealing with similar economic issues. After all,

if one cannot remain in business, than what? Just for the record I have been

thru a cross country move, divorce, bankruptcy and taken several odd jobs in

order to get funds to keep practicing. I love it and will get there too. I

was recently given a faculty position at a local OM college, which has taken

me years to get so patience is a good thing. Take care and best of luck to

ya.

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

> " ray ford " <rford

>Chinese Medicine

><Chinese Medicine >

>RE: Earning a living

>Thu, 28 Apr 2005 21:07:28 +1000

>

>Mike, you are right,

>Pete did not ask, but he has acknowledged my intentions and others, so

>that is what counts. I did become frustrated with your posts as you did

>not seem to read what I was actually saying. I do feel for Pete, just

>because my response was not as Buddhist as you would have liked doesn't

>mean I don't understand. Pete(sorry to talk about you Pete) has opened

>up this thread and continued it by raising the ire of many with some

>quite contentious assertions.

>When such strong assertions are made, it is bound to create a strong

>response in return, other practitioners are allowed to put their version

>of reality out there too. This is why so many people have joined this

>thread, quite a few upset with what Pete has to say or assume Pete's

>posts have contained quite a lot of judgements which no-one really asked

>for.

>I agree with Pete though in that the debate has been good and brought a

>very important issue into focus. Lots of great advice from so many great

>practitioners has been enlightening for me anyhow.

>Problems in the USA and how to fix them? I haven't got a clue. Honora

>answered the question about treating in poorer communities, read her

>post.

>No hard feelings Mike

>Ray Ford

>

>Chinese Medicine

>Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike

>Bowser

>Thursday, 28 April 2005 8:53 AM

>Chinese Medicine

>RE: Earning a living

>

>Ray,

>No need to take offense or become hostile. I do not recall Pete

>specifically asking for personal help with his emotions but I could be

>wrong. Why don't you ask him if this is what he wants instead of

>telling

>him? I think that he was making comments about his perceptions of the

>profession when everyone jumped in on him.

>

>What if Pete's anger issues with the profession can be solved with

>greater

>communication and involvement, shouldn't we try to improve the

>profession?

>There are many graduates out there that do not make it in our profession

>and

>it would be nice to reverse this nasty trend. What about their

>frustrations

>and anger? Do we just ignore the trend and try to manage this only on

>an

>individual's emotional level? I would hope not.

>

>I am not interested in being a spokeman for our profession but I can say

>

>that I have seen and experienced enough concern that I can see where

>Pete is

>coming from. By the way, Ray, I would love to hear how one increases

>the

>income of poorer living areas so that patients can afford our services

>like

>where Pete claims to live. Our country is going thru some tough

>economic

>times, the likes of which we have not seen since the Great Depression.

>Does

>my admission of this fact offend you?

>

>Have some empathy for Pete as he appears to be feeling a normal reaction

>to

>bad economic times.

>

>Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

>

> > " ray ford " <rford

> >Chinese Medicine

> ><Chinese Medicine >

> >RE: Earning a living

> >Thu, 28 Apr 2005 08:23:07 +1000

> >

> >Mike ,you have not heard a thing. Pete said the same thing soooo.. many

> >times it SEEMED obvious to me at least that he wanted help. This is a

> >forum of interaction, advice is common AND if you have a look back Pete

> >did keep the thread going by asking questions and making blanket

> >statements. Since you " speak " for " the profession " and " know " what all

> >the inherent problems are that need fixing, I'll leave it to you.

> >Ray Ford

> >

> >Chinese Medicine

> >Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of mike

> >Bowser

> >Thursday, 28 April 2005 3:58 AM

> >Chinese Medicine

> >RE: Earning a living

> >

> >Ray,

> >

> >This is a part of life here in America and probably elsewhere as well.

> >I do

> >not recall Pete asking for yours or mine or anyone else's individual

> >help.

> >Lest I forgot something, ethics allows us to work with people only with

> >an

> >informed consent. I do not think that Pete brought these issues up in

> >order

> >to be pathologized. I have noticed a tendency for us to pass judgement

> >or

> >that one who is making mention is somehow ill. Based upon his

> >observations,

> >I can say that our profession needs more help than Pete does. It is

> >healthy

> >and normal to be expressive. You seem to have a solution for Pete but

> >do

> >you have one for the profession?

> >

> >Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

> >

> > > " ray ford " <rford

> > >Chinese Medicine

> > ><Chinese Medicine >

> > >RE: Earning a living

> > >Thu, 28 Apr 2005 03:15:18 +1000

> > >

> > >Mike,

> > >I was not suggesting that ANYONE wish anything away. Pete has poured

> >his

> > >heart out on this forum and really I can see his posts as a call for

> > >help which is being offered by so many. This does not negate Pete's

> > > " truth " but he is in pain and your playing devil's advocate and

>telling

> > >him " yeah, we all agree ain " t it all bad and here is the TRUTH, and

>you

> > >hold onto that truth " is not helping at all. So much has to be done,

> >you

> > >are so right there, education, co-operation etc but FIRST of all

>there

> > >has to be a reason to get out of bed in the morning, playing the

> " aint

> > >it all so bad tape " is a mighty strong reason to pull the covers over

> > >and go back to sleep.

> > >Ray Ford

> > >

> > >Chinese Medicine

> > >Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

>mike

> > >Bowser

> > >Thursday, 28 April 2005 2:52 AM

> > >Chinese Medicine

> > >RE: Earning a living

> > >

> > >Ray,

> > >

> > >I think that I was suggesting an all-inclusive focus on solutions as

> > >well at

> > >least that was my intention.

> > >

> > >Additionally, I would have to say then that we disagree with

> >perceptions

> > >of

> > >things and whether we continue to wish it away and ignore it or admit

> >it

> > >

> > >exists and change it. I believe that we need to be courageous in

> > >admitting

> > >the truth to ourselves instead of trying to placate those with other

> > >views.

> > >There is room for all of us.

> > >

> > >I do appreciate your view and dialogue and hope that all of us can

> > >better

> > >create that unity that we seek.

> > >

> > >Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

> > >

> > > > " ray ford " <rford

> > > >Chinese Medicine

> > > ><Chinese Medicine >

> > > >RE: Earning a living

> > > >Thu, 28 Apr 2005 02:26:44 +1000

> > > >

> > > >I disagree with you mike,

> > > >The intent behind any of my words is to actually help Pete; this

>will

> > > >not be done by re-enforcing his views which are causing him pain.

>As

> > >for

> > > >the " truth " of course if we all look at something the same way we

>may

> > > >call that " truth " If other practitioners (many)see things another

>way

> > > >does this make it " false " The point is " does it help " OR " does it

> >cause

> > > >more pain? " Surely what is needed here is solutions NOT a constant

> > >focus

> > > >on a " PART " of the picture.

> > > >Ray Ford

> > > >

> > > >Chinese Medicine

> > > >Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of

> >mike

> > > >Bowser

> > > >Thursday, 28 April 2005 1:37 AM

> > > >Chinese Medicine

> > > >Re: Earning a living

> > > >

> > > >Matt,

> > > >I think that maybe some on this post have been a little hard on

>Pete

> > >for

> > > >

> > > >stating what many of us may have observed and acknowledged. We do

> >not

> > > >want

> > > >to become a society or profession that is afraid to speak the truth

> > >even

> > > >if

> > > >it is unpopular. I admire Pete for speaking his opinion. I have

> > > >witnessed

> > > >some of what has been mentioned here as well. The association in

>MN

> > >has

> > > >

> > > >been very dysfunctional and prevented our profession from moving

> > > >forward.

> > > >There is not public presence and attempts to change the legislation

> >to

> > > >allow

> > > >L Ac insurance parity are defeated from within. Some of us might

> >like

> > > >challenges but constant problems like these can add to our own

> > > >difficulties

> > > >with practice development. It is good for Pete and all of us to

>take

> > > >note

> > > >of these issues, especially if we want to improve things. First

>the

> > > >problem

> > > >needs to be acknowledged before changes can occur. While there may

> >be

> > > >things that Pete and all of us can do to better market ourselves it

> >is

> > > >also

> > > >helpful for us to have a professional presence both nationally and

> > > >locally

> > > >in all states. In order to succeed in this we need to agree to

>work

> > > >together as a collective, somewhat like what the Republican party

>has

> > > >done

> > > >recently with nicer tactics.

> > > >

> > > >Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

> > > >

> > > > > " Turiya Hill " <turiya

> > > > >Chinese Medicine

> > > > ><Chinese Medicine >

> > > > >Re: Earning a living

> > > > >Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:32:00 -0700

> > > > >

> > > > >Pete

> > > > >

> > > > > Sorry to have to be the one to call you on this

> > >Brother.......my

> > > > >general impression of your responses is one of whining and

> >excessive

> > > > >negativity towards the suggestions offerred you.

> > > > > Listen...if you are truly in this work to practice the art

>of

> > > >healing

> > > > >and serve others all else will naturally ,and in due course,

> >follow.

> > >I

> > > > >would really suggest you get involved in a therapeutic/

>counseling

> > > > >relationship with someone with whom you are comfortable....and

> >start

> > > >the

> > > > >healing and the prosperity with yourself.

> > > > > -

> > > > > Pete Theisen

> > > > > Chinese Medicine

> > > > > Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:50 PM

> > > > > Re: Earning a living

> > > > >

> > > > > Matt Bauer wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > <snip>

> > > > >

> > > > > > calls for people working collectively

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi Matt!

> > > > >

> > > > > Nice idea, but people in *this* profession won't work

> > >collectively.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > Pete

> > > > >

> > > > > To translate this message, copy and paste it into this web

>link

> > > >page,

> > > > >http://babel.altavista.com/

> > > > >

>and

> > > >adjust

> > > > >accordingly.

> > > > >

> > > > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication

>outside

> > >the

> > > >

> > > > >group requires prior permission from the author.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other

> > > >academics,

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >-----

> > > >-------

> > > > >

April 28, 2005

Pete wrote .. " I wonder how supportive our organizations are of each

other? "

They are getting better. I guess I am just impatient as I've grown grey

listening to the same debates. - Matthew Bauer

-

Pete Theisen

Chinese Medicine

Wednesday, April 27, 2005 5:30 PM

Re: Earning a living

Matt Bauer wrote:

<snip>

> concentrate on what we have in common rather than what we disagree on

> and making public education THE priority.

>

> I would be happy to devote myself to such an effort but it would only

> be successful with the support of the existing organizations. -

> Matthew Bauer

Hi Matt!

Interesting post. I wonder how supportive our organizations are of each

other?

Regards,

Pete

http://babel.altavista.com/

and adjust

accordingly.

If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, click

on this link

April 28, 2005

Matt Bauer wrote:

> Pete wrote .. " I wonder how supportive our organizations are of each

> other? "

>

> They are getting better. I guess I am just impatient as I've grown grey

listening to the same debates. - Matthew Bauer

Hi Matt!

I got an off list message today to the effect that ALL the orgs are

getting behind Hinchey, is that true?

Regards,

Pete

April 28, 2005

Folks,

The Alliance has formally endorsed the Hinchey bill and Hinchey will be our

Banquet speaker in Newport, R.I. next week. AAOM has also asked its members to

take action supportive of the bill. Other national orgs are considering actions

consistent with their natures and restrictions. We are all working together on

this because we think the moment may be at hand.

With regards to supportiveness between the national orgs, I can only say that

the Alliance is strongly supportive of the efforts of all of the other orgs. I

personally have excellent working relationships with leaders in every one of the

national orgs. As far as I am concerned, the days of strife are over! We must

and will work together for the common good!

Michael

Michael R. McCoy, Ph.D.

Executive Director

AOMAlliance

Matt Bauer wrote:

> Pete wrote .. " I wonder how supportive our organizations are of each

> other? "

>

> They are getting better. I guess I am just impatient as I've grown

> grey listening to the same debates. - Matthew Bauer

Hi Matt!

I got an off list message today to the effect that ALL the orgs are getting

behind Hinchey, is that true?

Regards,

Pete

--

Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.4 - Release 4/27/2005

April 28, 2005

What is the Hinchey Bill?

Chinese Medicine , " Director "

<director@a...> wrote:

>

> Folks,

> The Alliance has formally endorsed the Hinchey bill and Hinchey

will be our Banquet speaker in Newport, R.I. next week. AAOM has also

asked its members to take action supportive of the bill. Other

national orgs are considering actions consistent with their natures

and restrictions. We are all working together on this because we

think the moment may be at hand.

> With regards to supportiveness between the national orgs, I can

only say that the Alliance is strongly supportive of the efforts of

all of the other orgs. I personally have excellent working

relationships with leaders in every one of the national orgs. As far

as I am concerned, the days of strife are over! We must and will work

together for the common good!

>

> Michael

>

> Michael R. McCoy, Ph.D.

> Executive Director

> AOMAlliance

>

> Matt Bauer wrote:

> > Pete wrote .. " I wonder how supportive our organizations are of each

> > other? "

> >

> > They are getting better. I guess I am just impatient as I've grown

> > grey listening to the same debates. - Matthew Bauer

>

> Hi Matt!

>

> I got an off list message today to the effect that ALL the orgs are

getting behind Hinchey, is that true?

>

> Regards,

>

> Pete

>

> --

>

> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.4 - Release 4/27/2005

April 28, 2005

The Hinchey Bill is of interest only to the US members of this list. It is

legislation introduced in the US House of Reps. (HR 818) that would add

acupuncture to the list of medical modalities and procedures included for

reimbursement under Medicare, Medicaid, and Federal Employee Health Programs.

It was introduced by Rep. Maurice Hinchey of NY and, as of yesterday, had 33

co-sponsors. All of you can help by contacting your Representatives and asking

them to co-sponsor the Bill.

Michael

AOMAlliance

What is the Hinchey Bill?

--

Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.4 - Release 4/27/2005

February 18, 2006

Todd

I am not sure what is going on in SD but CA housing market is not crashing yet.

Its slower but we are not seeing much price effects up here. What you describe

is true for US economy overall, its a pyramid with the Chinese holding most of

the cards. If they stopped financing us we would crash. I am not sure we in

alternative med are much worse off then the entire game. While most of the newer

practitioners i know do not really make it, i now a few that are doing very

well. Its not a happy picture and i am not sure why graduates are not more

vocal. I have a few students that are very good and effective practitioners but

they just cant make it. Those that are making it had to become total sales

people with constant direct marketing, that is doing public presentations all

the time, but that takes a certain type of personality and if i had to do it i

would fail. As my practice is 80% cash these days i also wander what would

happen when the general perception of the public changes and they start feeling

less confident about their financial future. Luckily i am one of those that have

been around for more than 20 years but i do feel sorry for many new graduates.

Oakland, CA 94609

-

cha

Saturday, February 18, 2006 7:53 AM

earning a living

The average american has negative savings right now. However a good

number have equity in their homes. Unfortunately luxury expenses and

even basic needs are often being financed from this equity. At the

same time, the California housing market is crashing. Homes are

staying on the market much longer than a year ago. There is a huge

inventory. For example, if I wanted to sell my condo in SD today, I

would likely take a $40K loss after all expenses were figured in. So

the question for those in the field of alternative medicine is how

are your prospective patients going to be able to pay their fees and

buy their herbs once they have used up their equity and the

foreclosures begin?

Insurance covers only a small number of patients for a small number

of visits and herbs are rarely covered at all. Being forced to give

limited service and cheap (and thus often ineffective) herbal rx,

your results will be poor and your word of mouth will suffer. I am

hard pressed to see how anyone just starting out or still in school

can ever anticipate making more than 35K per year in the next ten

years under this scenario. I may be wrong, but there is a lot of

denial in this field. I urge those who are not too heavily invested

in their careers to find others who have been out for a while or even

longer and see if you can get them to come clean on what they

actually earn. Many, many folks have privately conceded to me that

they barely get by even ten years after graduating. Yet due to ego

on one hand and business sense on the other, most folks will claim

otherwise in a public setting. If your potential patient base finds

out you are not making a decent living, they will be loathe to use

your services. Either you are no good at what you do or you might be

gone very soon. Either way, not a good health investment. Someone

remarked to me the other day, " well, so an so lives in a big mansion,

etc. " . All his examples were of folks who had been in the biz for 20

years.

It is then when it occurred to me that the profession as it stands is

somewhat like a pyramid scheme. The folks on the top of the pyramid

are the long time practitioners and the schools. The long time folks

are benefitted by the appearance of a thriving profession and

abundant cheap or free labor in the form of students seeking

mentors. The schools rake in profits by charging high tuition, which

is easily covered by students in the form of student loans, which

they assume they will pay off soon after graduating. Again, find some

honest folks like me who will tell you that in my best years, I made

60K and see little possibility of ever paying off my student loans.

I know for a fact that the majority of recent grads are pretty much

in the same straits. Then those who fail in practice are told it is

because they don't know how to run a business. Perhaps, perhaps

not. But you can't squeeze blood from a rock. If the patient base

has no disposable income, no amount of slick marketing will part them

from their cash. Besides, is that what you want to do anyway?

Persuade anyone and everyone that they need your services, regardless

of their actual need? I'll admit I could have made a bit more in the

boom years of the 90's if I was willing to sell my soul this way, but

its not boom time anymore. People talk about breaking out of your

comfort zone and approaching people on line in a supermarket to sell

them the goods. I can tell you that if anyone ever tried to sell me

anything on line at a supermarket, I would rip them them a new one

right then and there. It is the most reprehensible thing I can

imagine. Why not just take your traveling snake oil show on the road?

No, the only solution involves a twofold approach:

1. do research to prove what you do works. insurance companies are

not going to cover acupuncture services unless it is evidence based.

2. work for the creation of some sort of universal health coverage

that recognizes the benefits of preventive and alternative care so

the impoverished souls of america can actually procure your services.

For those who are dedicated to the field and want to see it develop

into the future, this is the path to take, not the road of slick

marketing tactics. If this profession goes down that slippery slope,

not only will most folks end up broke anyway, but the credibility of

the filed will be forever tarnished and the opportunity to accomplish

the two goals above will have come and gone. don't believe me? Try

and find a real friend, ply them with alcohol and get them to admit

the truth about their incomes and debts.

Web/Online Coordinator

Adult Degree and Graduate Programs

Prescott College

http://www.prescott.edu

Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including board

approved continuing education classes, an annual conference and a free

discussion forum in Chinese Herbal Medicine.

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Earning a living

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