Earning a living

April 27, 2005

I have read the post regarding the struggles to earn a living in this profession

with a sense of sorrow over the tremendous potential that continues to go unmet.

While I think it is great for individuals to get marketing training and do what

they can to promote their individual practices, such efforts will only scratch

the surface of what we could enjoy collectively. It makes no sense for 10,000

practitioners to run around trying to promote their individual practices, when

we should have a public outreach body promoting EVERYBODY'S practice.

I am absolutely convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt, that a well organized

public outreach campaign to educate the public about the benefits of

acupuncture/OM would reap tremendous rewards. The public is very interested in

acupuncture - they have heard so much good and virtually no bad about it. They

are afraid however, to get involved in an uncertain relationship. They are

afraid of what will happen if they just open up the yellow pages and pick an

acupuncturist out of the phone book. Any well run campaign to make the public

feel comfortable about who will be doing the acupuncture on them will make a

world of difference.

If 10,000 acupuncturists would contribute $100 a year, that would give us

$1,000,000 to fund a " Acupuncture Advisory Board " with an 800 phone number to

refer patients to " qualified, licensed acupuncture professionals. " As it is now,

most Americans (sorry for the U.S. only post) do not have any idea that their is

a profession of trained and licensed acupuncturists. Many just assume any Asian

can get off the boat and put out a shingle to practice acupuncture. OUR

PROFESSION HAS DONE VIRTUALLY NOTHING TO CORRECT THIS MISUNDERSTANDING. I saw a

study about 5 years ago that showed that about 2% of Americans had tried

acupuncture but 6% said they would be interested in trying it. That means three

times more people who have tried acupuncture would like to try it but have not

because they do not know what to expect form pursuing treatment.

Even if such an effort did not get the funds mentioned above, a great deal could

be done with little money by developing a education campaign utilizing the print

media and the Internet. More than anything, we need to develop a body that is

seen in the public's and media's eyes as THE authoritative body on the subject

of acupuncture/OM, such as what the AMA is to American Western medicine.

I firmly believe the demand for our services would EXPLODE with the right kind

of nudge. Then practitioners would not have to spend large sums of money on

marketing training or advertising. Of course, such a plan calls for people

working collectively together. - Matthew Bauer

April 27, 2005

Matt Bauer wrote:

<snip>

> calls for people working collectively

Hi Matt!

Nice idea, but people in *this* profession won't work collectively.

Regards,

Pete

April 27, 2005

Pete

Sorry to have to be the one to call you on this Brother.......my general

impression of your responses is one of whining and excessive negativity towards

the suggestions offerred you.

Listen...if you are truly in this work to practice the art of healing and

serve others all else will naturally ,and in due course, follow. I would really

suggest you get involved in a therapeutic/ counseling relationship with someone

with whom you are comfortable....and start the healing and the prosperity with

yourself.

-

Pete Theisen

Chinese Medicine

Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:50 PM

Re: Earning a living

Matt Bauer wrote:

<snip>

> calls for people working collectively

Hi Matt!

Nice idea, but people in *this* profession won't work collectively.

Regards,

Pete

http://babel.altavista.com/

and adjust

accordingly.

If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics, click

on this link

April 27, 2005

Absolutely. We need a voice in the media to speak for us.

On Apr 26, 2005, at 8:32 PM, Matt Bauer wrote:

> It makes no sense for 10,000 practitioners to run around trying to

> promote their individual practices, when we should have a public

> outreach body promoting EVERYBODY'S practice.

>

April 27, 2005

Just something to consider: in Europe, it is forbidden to do marketing (any

kind of marketing) when you are in the (para)medical field. When you sign up

with a professional organisation, which is obliged by law in most of the

European countries, you also agree with the deontological code of the

professional organisation. In short, it means that you may never speak bad

of your colleagues, nor are you allowed to put yourself forward as a better

practitioner than your colleagues.

We are allowed to give talks, and I think that is a very good thing- I agree

with Matt Bauer's earlier post that a lot can be done to make folks aware of

the benefits of , fewer side-effects, etc.

Most of the successful practitioners I know, became so by good old-fashioned

word of mouth. In Belgium, the better practitioners see 20 to 30 patients

per day- seeing 3 or 4 people at the same moment.

I don't know about you people, but I do feel that marketing feels a bit

weird when you're in the field of medicine. We're there to try to solve

people's problems, not to offer spa-like treatments that are mainly meant to

make a person feel better. If the latter is what you're aiming for, then go

for it. However that is not why I got interested in Chinese medicine.

In short: I think that the only kind of 'marketing' that should be done is

raising public awareness of the benefits of Chinese medicine. By talks,

articles for magazines and newspapers,... all the rest depends on the

practitioners and her/his skills, patient care and integrity. But you knew

that. Reading a bit on what good patient care is, was helpful to me. Asking

a person that you helped for a referral, is also a good thing to do, when

you ask for it sincerely. I don't know if integrity can be achieved by

reading books, but it is something that we can grow, right?

Tom.

----

Matt Bauer

04/27/05 05:33:50

Chinese Medicine

Earning a living

I have read the post regarding the struggles to earn a living in this

profession with a sense of sorrow over the tremendous potential that

continues to go unmet. While I think it is great for individuals to get

marketing training and do what they can to promote their individual

practices, such efforts will only scratch the surface of what we could enjoy

collectively. It makes no sense for 10,000 practitioners to run around

trying to promote their individual practices, when we should have a public

outreach body promoting EVERYBODY'S practice.

I am absolutely convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt, that a well organized

public outreach campaign to educate the public about the benefits of

acupuncture/OM would reap tremendous rewards. The public is very interested

in acupuncture - they have heard so much good and virtually no bad about it.

They are afraid however, to get involved in an uncertain relationship. They

are afraid of what will happen if they just open up the yellow pages and

pick an acupuncturist out of the phone book. Any well run campaign to make

the public feel comfortable about who will be doing the acupuncture on them

will make a world of difference.

If 10,000 acupuncturists would contribute $100 a year, that would give us $1

000,000 to fund a " Acupuncture Advisory Board " with an 800 phone number to

refer patients to " qualified, licensed acupuncture professionals. " As it is

now, most Americans (sorry for the U.S. only post) do not have any idea that

their is a profession of trained and licensed acupuncturists. Many just

assume any Asian can get off the boat and put out a shingle to practice

acupuncture. OUR PROFESSION HAS DONE VIRTUALLY NOTHING TO CORRECT THIS

MISUNDERSTANDING. I saw a study about 5 years ago that showed that about 2%

of Americans had tried acupuncture but 6% said they would be interested in

trying it. That means three times more people who have tried acupuncture

would like to try it but have not because they do not know what to expect

form pursuing treatment.

Even if such an effort did not get the funds mentioned above, a great deal

could be done with little money by developing a education campaign utilizing

the print media and the Internet. More than anything, we need to develop a

body that is seen in the public's and media's eyes as THE authoritative body

on the subject of acupuncture/OM, such as what the AMA is to American

Western medicine.

I firmly believe the demand for our services would EXPLODE with the right

kind of nudge. Then practitioners would not have to spend large sums of

money on marketing training or advertising. Of course, such a plan calls for

people working collectively together. - Matthew Bauer

April 27, 2005

--- Pete Theisen <petet wrote:

Matt Bauer wrote:

<snip>

> calls for people working collectively

Hi Matt!

Nice idea, but people in *this* profession won't work

collectively.

Regards,

Pete<

To the contrary Pete. Here in Colorado our association

has created just that type of cooperative efforts to

promote the proffesion. I and a few other senior

practitioners also mentor newer practitioners and I

offer cheap rent in my clinic to new practitioners to

help them get there practices going.

Doc

I am only one; but still I am one.

I cannot do everything, but still I can do something;

I will not refuse to do the something I can do.

- Helen Keller

April 27, 2005

Tom Verhaeghe wrote:

<snip>

> I don't know about you people, but I do feel that marketing feels a bit

> weird when you're in the field of medicine.

Hi Dr. Tom!

Yes, very well put. Weird is exactly how it feels.

Regards,

Pete

April 27, 2005

Doc wrote:

<snip>

>

> To the contrary Pete. Here in Colorado our association has created

> just that type of cooperative efforts to

Hi Doc!

Well, I'm not saying it couldn't happen here, but I am yet to see it.

The closest thing we have to working together is health fairs - and you

have to pay big bucks to participate! I have never had even one steady

patient come from them. Give away a lot of free treatments, but when it

comes to permanent patients, none.

Regards,

Pete

April 27, 2005

Doc, I'd love to hear your secrets! I'm always looking for ways to

improve my approach. Please share!

Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht.

Oasis Acupuncture

http://www.oasisacupuncture.com

8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte

Suite D-35

Scottsdale, AZ 85258

Phone: (480) 991-3650

Fax: (480) 247-4472

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Doc

Wednesday, April 27, 2005 8:36 AM

Chinese Medicine

Re: Earning a living

Pete,

If you want a set of proven ways to build a practice

no matter where you are I can give them to you.

Using these ideas I was even able to build a solid

practice when I lived in Hong Kong.

Too many pratitioners you say?

I had more than 6 in the same building and about two

dozen others in the few blocks surrounding my clinic.

The rest were Hong Kong Ren I was the only Gwai Lo

among the group.

Yet being a newcomer, a Jewish kid from thev States

etc I still built a practice that gave me money to

live on.

My secrets?

Well if you are actually ready to stop saying " yes

but... " and to take a positive approach I will gladly

share my not so secret secrets to building a practice.

Doc

--- Pete Theisen <petet wrote:

Doc wrote:

<snip>

>

> To the contrary Pete. Here in Colorado our

association has created

> just that type of cooperative efforts to

Hi Doc!

Well, I'm not saying it couldn't happen here, but I am

yet to see it.

The closest thing we have to working together is

health fairs - and you

have to pay big bucks to participate! I have never had

even one steady

patient come from them. Give away a lot of free

treatments, but when it

comes to permanent patients, none.

Regards,

Pete

To translate this message, copy and paste it into this

web link page, http://babel.altavista.com/

and adjust accordingly.

Messages are the property of the author. Any

duplication outside the group requires prior

permission from the author.

If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with

other academics,

April 27, 2005

Pete,

If you want a set of proven ways to build a practice

no matter where you are I can give them to you.

Using these ideas I was even able to build a solid

practice when I lived in Hong Kong.

Too many pratitioners you say?

I had more than 6 in the same building and about two

dozen others in the few blocks surrounding my clinic.

The rest were Hong Kong Ren I was the only Gwai Lo

among the group.

Yet being a newcomer, a Jewish kid from thev States

etc I still built a practice that gave me money to

live on.

My secrets?

Well if you are actually ready to stop saying " yes

but... " and to take a positive approach I will gladly

share my not so secret secrets to building a practice.

Doc

--- Pete Theisen <petet wrote:

Doc wrote:

<snip>

>

> To the contrary Pete. Here in Colorado our

association has created

> just that type of cooperative efforts to

Hi Doc!

Well, I'm not saying it couldn't happen here, but I am

yet to see it.

The closest thing we have to working together is

health fairs - and you

have to pay big bucks to participate! I have never had

even one steady

patient come from them. Give away a lot of free

treatments, but when it

comes to permanent patients, none.

Regards,

Pete

To translate this message, copy and paste it into this

web link page, http://babel.altavista.com/

and adjust accordingly.

Messages are the property of the author. Any

duplication outside the group requires prior

permission from the author.

If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with

other academics,

April 27, 2005

Matt,

I think that maybe some on this post have been a little hard on Pete for

stating what many of us may have observed and acknowledged. We do not want

to become a society or profession that is afraid to speak the truth even if

it is unpopular. I admire Pete for speaking his opinion. I have witnessed

some of what has been mentioned here as well. The association in MN has

been very dysfunctional and prevented our profession from moving forward.

There is not public presence and attempts to change the legislation to allow

L Ac insurance parity are defeated from within. Some of us might like

challenges but constant problems like these can add to our own difficulties

with practice development. It is good for Pete and all of us to take note

of these issues, especially if we want to improve things. First the problem

needs to be acknowledged before changes can occur. While there may be

things that Pete and all of us can do to better market ourselves it is also

helpful for us to have a professional presence both nationally and locally

in all states. In order to succeed in this we need to agree to work

together as a collective, somewhat like what the Republican party has done

recently with nicer tactics.

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

> " Turiya Hill " <turiya

>Chinese Medicine

><Chinese Medicine >

>Re: Earning a living

>Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:32:00 -0700

>

>Pete

>

> Sorry to have to be the one to call you on this Brother.......my

>general impression of your responses is one of whining and excessive

>negativity towards the suggestions offerred you.

> Listen...if you are truly in this work to practice the art of healing

>and serve others all else will naturally ,and in due course, follow. I

>would really suggest you get involved in a therapeutic/ counseling

>relationship with someone with whom you are comfortable....and start the

>healing and the prosperity with yourself.

> -

> Pete Theisen

> Chinese Medicine

> Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:50 PM

> Re: Earning a living

>

> Matt Bauer wrote:

>

> <snip>

>

> > calls for people working collectively

>

> Hi Matt!

>

> Nice idea, but people in *this* profession won't work collectively.

>

> Regards,

>

> Pete

>

>http://babel.altavista.com/

>

> and adjust

>accordingly.

>

> Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the

>group requires prior permission from the author.

>

> If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other academics,

>

April 27, 2005

I think we all would like to benefit from your wisdom. I know I would.

Thanks in advance.

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

>Doc <Doc

>Chinese Medicine

>Re: Earning a living

>Wed, 27 Apr 2005 08:35:50 -0700 (PDT)

>

>Pete,

>If you want a set of proven ways to build a practice

>no matter where you are I can give them to you.

>Using these ideas I was even able to build a solid

>practice when I lived in Hong Kong.

>Too many pratitioners you say?

>I had more than 6 in the same building and about two

>dozen others in the few blocks surrounding my clinic.

>The rest were Hong Kong Ren I was the only Gwai Lo

>among the group.

>Yet being a newcomer, a Jewish kid from thev States

>etc I still built a practice that gave me money to

>live on.

>

>My secrets?

>Well if you are actually ready to stop saying " yes

>but... " and to take a positive approach I will gladly

>share my not so secret secrets to building a practice.

>

>Doc

>--- Pete Theisen <petet wrote:

>

>Doc wrote:

>

><snip>

> >

> > To the contrary Pete. Here in Colorado our

>association has created

> > just that type of cooperative efforts to

>

>Hi Doc!

>

>Well, I'm not saying it couldn't happen here, but I am

>yet to see it.

>The closest thing we have to working together is

>health fairs - and you

>have to pay big bucks to participate! I have never had

>even one steady

>patient come from them. Give away a lot of free

>treatments, but when it

>comes to permanent patients, none.

>

>Regards,

>

>Pete

>

>To translate this message, copy and paste it into this

>web link page, http://babel.altavista.com/

>

>and adjust accordingly.

>

>Messages are the property of the author. Any

>duplication outside the group requires prior

>permission from the author.

>

>If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with

>other academics,

>

April 27, 2005

Matt,

Very well said, you get my vote. When are you going to create this

association?

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

> " Matt Bauer " <acu.guy

>Chinese Medicine

><Chinese Medicine >

> Earning a living

>Tue, 26 Apr 2005 20:32:57 -0700

>

>I have read the post regarding the struggles to earn a living in this

>profession with a sense of sorrow over the tremendous potential that

>continues to go unmet. While I think it is great for individuals to get

>marketing training and do what they can to promote their individual

>practices, such efforts will only scratch the surface of what we could

>enjoy collectively. It makes no sense for 10,000 practitioners to run

>around trying to promote their individual practices, when we should have a

>public outreach body promoting EVERYBODY'S practice.

>

>I am absolutely convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt, that a well organized

>public outreach campaign to educate the public about the benefits of

>acupuncture/OM would reap tremendous rewards. The public is very interested

>in acupuncture - they have heard so much good and virtually no bad about

>it. They are afraid however, to get involved in an uncertain relationship.

>They are afraid of what will happen if they just open up the yellow pages

>and pick an acupuncturist out of the phone book. Any well run campaign to

>make the public feel comfortable about who will be doing the acupuncture on

>them will make a world of difference.

>

>If 10,000 acupuncturists would contribute $100 a year, that would give us

>$1,000,000 to fund a " Acupuncture Advisory Board " with an 800 phone number

>to refer patients to " qualified, licensed acupuncture professionals. " As it

>is now, most Americans (sorry for the U.S. only post) do not have any idea

>that their is a profession of trained and licensed acupuncturists. Many

>just assume any Asian can get off the boat and put out a shingle to

>practice acupuncture. OUR PROFESSION HAS DONE VIRTUALLY NOTHING TO CORRECT

>THIS MISUNDERSTANDING. I saw a study about 5 years ago that showed that

>about 2% of Americans had tried acupuncture but 6% said they would be

>interested in trying it. That means three times more people who have tried

>acupuncture would like to try it but have not because they do not know what

>to expect form pursuing treatment.

>

>Even if such an effort did not get the funds mentioned above, a great deal

>could be done with little money by developing a education campaign

>utilizing the print media and the Internet. More than anything, we need to

>develop a body that is seen in the public's and media's eyes as THE

>authoritative body on the subject of acupuncture/OM, such as what the AMA

>is to American Western medicine.

>

>I firmly believe the demand for our services would EXPLODE with the right

>kind of nudge. Then practitioners would not have to spend large sums of

>money on marketing training or advertising. Of course, such a plan calls

>for people working collectively together. - Matthew Bauer

>

April 27, 2005

Mike ,

I have proposed such a Council - not a new association - to our two national

(U.S.) OM associations. It would be made of representatives from those groups

and would ONLY work on a public education campaign - NOT political issues. The

E.O. of one association expressed great interest, I have not heard back from the

Board of the other. - Matt

-

mike Bowser

Chinese Medicine

Wednesday, April 27, 2005 8:55 AM

RE: Earning a living