Guest guest Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 Hi Rick, I am sending you some papers off list. I hope it helps. Jean Joaquim DMV, MSc www.fmvz.unesp.br - Rick Chinese Medicine Tuesday, September 13, 2005 4:08 PM Hernia Hello all , can someone tell me more of the TCM view on hernia of the lower back thanks in advance Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 hi rick can you elaborate? back as in the spine or disc? regards holmes Rick wrote: > Hello all , can someone tell me more of the TCM view on hernia of the lower back > > thanks in advance > > Rick > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 thanks for the reponse jean :-) I am gonna read it this evening Holmes , i mean with the back , the hernia of the disc. Best wishes Rick holmes <dkaikobad wrote: hi rick can you elaborate? back as in the spine or disc? regards holmes Rick wrote: > Hello all , can someone tell me more of the TCM view on hernia of the lower back > > thanks in advance > > Rick > > http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Rick, A hernia occurs when one structure protrudes through a weakness or a tear in another structure. Inguinal hernias occur when a portion of the intestine protrudes through the abdominal wall into the groin area, and a hiatal hernia occurs when a portion of the stomach protrudes upwards into or toward the esophagus. I have never heard of a hernia of the lower back. You may be talking about a herniated disk. This is different from a hernia. In this case, an intervertebral disc suffers a tear, which allows the jelly-like material inside it to bulge out of the disc. Often, this material presses on the spinal cord, causing pain and other neuroligical symptoms. If a herniated disc is what you are talking about, TCM can view it in any of a number of ways, depending on the cause. Trauma is a common cause, and injury will most always occur in an area where a person is weakest. Debility is another common cause, and again injury will occur in a person's weakest area. The back is associated with the kidney organ, and deficiencies of kidney qi, yin, yang and essence are all associated with low back weakness and pain. Herniations occurring in old age and after a lifetime of hard work are commonly associated with decline in kidney yin. Rick <rick_kamps1973 wrote: Hello all , can someone tell me more of the TCM view on hernia of the lower back thanks in advance Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 thank you rick if herniation is in intervertebral disks the pattern can very likely be: SP Earth deficiency this can be very likely from: a. inborn damaged SP qi b. a marauding LV Wood if this can be narrowed down to be one or the other or both: a bi phasal 5 shu protocol will very quickly put the condition right, and more importantly also the very many other symptoms now not seen on the radar finally the specter of future herniations is removed look forward to hearing your thoughts holmes Rick wrote: > thanks for the reponse jean :-) I am gonna read it this evening > > Holmes , i mean with the back , the hernia of the disc. > > Best wishes > > Rick > > > holmes <dkaikobad wrote: > hi rick > > can you elaborate? back as in the spine or disc? > > regards > > holmes > > > Rick wrote: > > Hello all , can someone tell me more of the TCM view on hernia of the lower back > > > > thanks in advance > > > > Rick > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Pardon my ignorance, What is a biphasal 5 SHU protocol? Thanks Freddy J --- holmes <dkaikobad wrote: > thank you rick > > if herniation is in intervertebral disks the pattern > can very likely be: > > SP Earth deficiency > > this can be very likely from: > > a. inborn damaged SP qi > b. a marauding LV Wood > > if this can be narrowed down to be one or the other > or both: > > a bi phasal 5 shu protocol will very quickly put the > condition right, > and more importantly also the very many other > symptoms now not seen on > the radar > > finally the specter of future herniations is removed > > look forward to hearing your thoughts > > holmes > > > > Rick wrote: > > thanks for the reponse jean :-) I am gonna read it > this evening > > > > Holmes , i mean with the back , the hernia of the > disc. > > > > Best wishes > > > > Rick > > > > > > holmes <dkaikobad wrote: > > hi rick > > > > can you elaborate? back as in the spine or disc? > > > > regards > > > > holmes > > > > > > Rick wrote: > > > Hello all , can someone tell me more of the TCM > view on hernia of the lower back > > > > > > thanks in advance > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 I wanted to ask the same question about the biphasal 5 shu protocol. Can you please tell me more about it. And i am brainstorming why sp-earth xu is involved. Thanks Rick freddy jente <drschnitzelheimer wrote: Pardon my ignorance, What is a biphasal 5 SHU protocol? Thanks Freddy J --- holmes <dkaikobad wrote: > thank you rick > > if herniation is in intervertebral disks the pattern > can very likely be: > > SP Earth deficiency > > this can be very likely from: > > a. inborn damaged SP qi > b. a marauding LV Wood > > if this can be narrowed down to be one or the other > or both: > > a bi phasal 5 shu protocol will very quickly put the > condition right, > and more importantly also the very many other > symptoms now not seen on > the radar > > finally the specter of future herniations is removed > > look forward to hearing your thoughts > > holmes > > > > Rick wrote: > > thanks for the reponse jean :-) I am gonna read it > this evening > > > > Holmes , i mean with the back , the hernia of the > disc. > > > > Best wishes > > > > Rick > > > > > > holmes <dkaikobad wrote: > > hi rick > > > > can you elaborate? back as in the spine or disc? > > > > regards > > > > holmes > > > > > > Rick wrote: > > > Hello all , can someone tell me more of the TCM > view on hernia of the lower back > > > > > > thanks in advance > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2005 Report Share Posted September 15, 2005 you are welcome if one element is in disharmony, this is a mono phasal illness with its own characteristics if two elements are in disharmony, this is a bi phasal illness with its own characteristics you can either use conventional points to heal, of the 5 shu grid of 5 distal points on extremities former are symptom oriented, latter are symptom as well as time oriented former are vague portals into the qi bed, latter are actual windows into a precise opening into the qi bed if teat a bi phasal illness with time sensitive " open " points, this is the bi phasal 5 Shu approach best dr holmes www.acu-free.com freddy jente wrote: > Pardon my ignorance, > What is a biphasal 5 SHU protocol? > > Thanks Freddy J > > --- holmes <dkaikobad wrote: > > > thank you rick > > > > if herniation is in intervertebral disks the pattern > > can very likely be: > > > > SP Earth deficiency > > > > this can be very likely from: > > > > a. inborn damaged SP qi > > b. a marauding LV Wood > > > > if this can be narrowed down to be one or the other > > or both: > > > > a bi phasal 5 shu protocol will very quickly put the > > condition right, > > and more importantly also the very many other > > symptoms now not seen on > > the radar > > > > finally the specter of future herniations is removed > > > > look forward to hearing your thoughts > > > > holmes > > > > > > > > Rick wrote: > > > thanks for the reponse jean :-) I am gonna read it > > this evening > > > > > > Holmes , i mean with the back , the hernia of the > > disc. > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > holmes <dkaikobad wrote: > > > hi rick > > > > > > can you elaborate? back as in the spine or disc? > > > > > > regards > > > > > > holmes > > > > > > > > > Rick wrote: > > > > Hello all , can someone tell me more of the TCM > > view on hernia of the lower back > > > > > > > > thanks in advance > > > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2005 Report Share Posted September 15, 2005 i wrote in a reply, see if this works for you if not i will add more information for any one pronounced illness, there can be only one elemental profile holmes Rick wrote: > I wanted to ask the same question about the biphasal 5 shu protocol. Can you > please tell me more about it. And i am brainstorming why sp-earth xu is involved. > > Thanks > > Rick > > > freddy jente <drschnitzelheimer wrote: > Pardon my ignorance, > What is a biphasal 5 SHU protocol? > > Thanks Freddy J > > --- holmes <dkaikobad wrote: > > > thank you rick > > > > if herniation is in intervertebral disks the pattern > > can very likely be: > > > > SP Earth deficiency > > > > this can be very likely from: > > > > a. inborn damaged SP qi > > b. a marauding LV Wood > > > > if this can be narrowed down to be one or the other > > or both: > > > > a bi phasal 5 shu protocol will very quickly put the > > condition right, > > and more importantly also the very many other > > symptoms now not seen on > > the radar > > > > finally the specter of future herniations is removed > > > > look forward to hearing your thoughts > > > > holmes > > > > > > > > Rick wrote: > > > thanks for the reponse jean :-) I am gonna read it > > this evening > > > > > > Holmes , i mean with the back , the hernia of the > > disc. > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > holmes <dkaikobad wrote: > > > hi rick > > > > > > can you elaborate? back as in the spine or disc? > > > > > > regards > > > > > > holmes > > > > > > > > > Rick wrote: > > > > Hello all , can someone tell me more of the TCM > > view on hernia of the lower back > > > > > > > > thanks in advance > > > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2005 Report Share Posted September 16, 2005 Can you explain the pathophysiology? Also, why would it be Spleen deficiency, and not Kidney? freddy jente <drschnitzelheimer wrote: Pardon my ignorance, What is a biphasal 5 SHU protocol? Thanks Freddy J --- holmes <dkaikobad wrote: > thank you rick > > if herniation is in intervertebral disks the pattern > can very likely be: > > SP Earth deficiency > > this can be very likely from: > > a. inborn damaged SP qi > b. a marauding LV Wood > > if this can be narrowed down to be one or the other > or both: > > a bi phasal 5 shu protocol will very quickly put the > condition right, > and more importantly also the very many other > symptoms now not seen on > the radar > > finally the specter of future herniations is removed > > look forward to hearing your thoughts > > holmes > > > > Rick wrote: > > thanks for the reponse jean :-) I am gonna read it > this evening > > > > Holmes , i mean with the back , the hernia of the > disc. > > > > Best wishes > > > > Rick > > > > > > holmes <dkaikobad wrote: > > hi rick > > > > can you elaborate? back as in the spine or disc? > > > > regards > > > > holmes > > > > > > Rick wrote: > > > Hello all , can someone tell me more of the TCM > view on hernia of the lower back > > > > > > thanks in advance > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > http://babel.altavista.com/ and adjust accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2005 Report Share Posted September 16, 2005 herniation is a structural affliction of a serious sort only Earth SP can so maraud and destroy not Kidney because Kidney cannot afflict itself regards dr holmes www.acu-free.com wrote: > Can you explain the pathophysiology? Also, why would it be Spleen deficiency, > and not Kidney? > > > > freddy jente <drschnitzelheimer wrote: > Pardon my ignorance, > What is a biphasal 5 SHU protocol? > > Thanks Freddy J > > --- holmes <dkaikobad wrote: > > > thank you rick > > > > if herniation is in intervertebral disks the pattern > > can very likely be: > > > > SP Earth deficiency > > > > this can be very likely from: > > > > a. inborn damaged SP qi > > b. a marauding LV Wood > > > > if this can be narrowed down to be one or the other > > or both: > > > > a bi phasal 5 shu protocol will very quickly put the > > condition right, > > and more importantly also the very many other > > symptoms now not seen on > > the radar > > > > finally the specter of future herniations is removed > > > > look forward to hearing your thoughts > > > > holmes > > > > > > > > Rick wrote: > > > thanks for the reponse jean :-) I am gonna read it > > this evening > > > > > > Holmes , i mean with the back , the hernia of the > > disc. > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > holmes <dkaikobad wrote: > > > hi rick > > > > > > can you elaborate? back as in the spine or disc? > > > > > > regards > > > > > > holmes > > > > > > > > > Rick wrote: > > > > Hello all , can someone tell me more of the TCM > > view on hernia of the lower back > > > > > > > > thanks in advance > > > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 hi rick can you post an update? how did things turn out? should be evocative for the forum holmes wrote: > Can you explain the pathophysiology? Also, why would it be Spleen deficiency, > and not Kidney? > > > > freddy jente <drschnitzelheimer wrote: > Pardon my ignorance, > What is a biphasal 5 SHU protocol? > > Thanks Freddy J > > --- holmes <dkaikobad wrote: > > > thank you rick > > > > if herniation is in intervertebral disks the pattern > > can very likely be: > > > > SP Earth deficiency > > > > this can be very likely from: > > > > a. inborn damaged SP qi > > b. a marauding LV Wood > > > > if this can be narrowed down to be one or the other > > or both: > > > > a bi phasal 5 shu protocol will very quickly put the > > condition right, > > and more importantly also the very many other > > symptoms now not seen on > > the radar > > > > finally the specter of future herniations is removed > > > > look forward to hearing your thoughts > > > > holmes > > > > > > > > Rick wrote: > > > thanks for the reponse jean :-) I am gonna read it > > this evening > > > > > > Holmes , i mean with the back , the hernia of the > > disc. > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > holmes <dkaikobad wrote: > > > hi rick > > > > > > can you elaborate? back as in the spine or disc? > > > > > > regards > > > > > > holmes > > > > > > > > > Rick wrote: > > > > Hello all , can someone tell me more of the TCM > > view on hernia of the lower back > > > > > > > > thanks in advance > > > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Dear Betsy, That's a tough one. Hernia is the one condition not covered very adequately by Natural Healing. One can use Rest (over a year), Inversion Therapy, Deep Tissue Repair Oil, BF & C Tincture, and Castor Oil packs, and there's a chance this will do the trick. There's also a chance it won't if it's a true hernia, in which case one has to look at this from an emergency viewpoint and go to Medico for the operation. It pains me to say that, as y'all know my opinion of the MD's, but this is one area (emergency medical attention) where they are useful. In Health, Freedom, and Love, Doc Doc Shillington727-447-5282Doc - tapestryofgrace herbal remedies Thursday, July 20, 2006 1:32 PM Herbal Remedies - Hernia Doc,Our 14 year old son has been training all summer for football seasonthat starts next week. The last week, he has complained of accute painjust under his right rib. My husband told him to lighten up on thesprints, and let his diaphram catch up by longer distance running. Buthe is still having this pain. He has lifted some weights, though myhusband put a limit on it at his age. We called a sports trainer andhe says it sounds like a hernia. If it is, are there alternatives tosurgery. I'd like to know before I have him diagnosed. So far I canonly find the herb Wuhui Yushan. Do you know if it is curative?Thanks so much,Betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 From what I know this is a tough call. Both Dr. Christopher and one of his students say that a hernia does require surgery. Don't know if they ever tried to go in and handle a hernia but my guess is that they tried. I'm a big believer in the body handling anything so I'd do all the standard things for overall health and see if the body will reverse the condition. This would mean a dedication to overall excellent health as the goal. A Total Body Cleanse with the hot and cold on the area specifically, an alkaline diet with lots of raw foods ongoing, healing poltice powder on the area, exercise that does not stress the area, not lifting heavy things, etc. Many people would not be willing to do this as it is a major life style change and the most common thing is people " living to eat " instead of " eating to live " . If he and you an adventurers (interested in a whole new way of eating and overall health), then the natural route would be one to try for more reasons than the hernia. Valorie OrganicSolutionsStore.com 727-447-5282 herbal remedies , Nettie Horner <kittifish wrote: > > Hello, > > My husband is complaining that his hernia is getting worse but does not want surgery. > Any suggestions? Kitti > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2006 Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 Thank you. We have been changing our diet over the last year. Even made him pass 3 gallstones and sand a few months ago. He just needed some reinforement. Thanks again and keep up the good work. Kittivalorieshillington <ValorieShillington wrote: From what I know this is a tough call.Both Dr. Christopher and one of his students say that a hernia does require surgery. Don't know if they ever tried to go in and handle a hernia but my guess is that they tried.I'm a big believer in the body handling anything so I'd do all thestandard things for overall health and see if the body will reverse the condition. This would mean a dedication to overall excellent health as the goal. A Total Body Cleanse with the hot and cold on the area specifically, an alkaline diet with lots of raw foods ongoing, healing poltice powder on the area, exercise that does not stress the area, not lifting heavy things, etc.Many people would not be willing to do this as it is a major life style change and the most common thing is people "living to eat" instead of "eating to live".If he and you an adventurers (interested in a whole new way of eating and overall health), then the natural route would be one to try for more reasons than the hernia.ValorieOrganicSolutionsStore.com727-447-5282herbal remedies , Nettie Horner <kittifish wrote:>> Hello,> > My husband is complaining that his hernia is getting worse but does not want surgery. > Any suggestions? Kitti> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Dear Lynn, That's a tough one. Hernia is the one condition that I know of no natural remedy for. The key here would be to permanently fix the heart condition first and then repair the hernia. The BF & C would help. So would my Deep Tissue Repair Oil, but I'm sorry to say that Hernia is the one condition where Herbal Medicine falls short and where medicos have their uses. Yours in Knowledge, Health and Freedom, Doc Doc Shillington727-447-5282Doc - DocShillington Friday, January 12, 2007 2:19 PM hernia My 75 year old father developed a hernia but he is unable to have the herniarepaired surgically due to serious heart problem. Do you know of anynatural alternatives he could try to encourage the body to heal itself inthis area? He is starting to take Dr Christopher's BF & C. Is there anythingelse you would suggest?Lynn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2007 Report Share Posted December 10, 2007 Nerve Sedative, BF & C (Bone, Flesh & Cartilage), and the Deep Tissue Repair Oil would be a good place to start. The Total Healing Poultice Powder would be the first thing you'd use right after the surgery though. Hugs, Doc anella wrote: My dear husband has a groin area hernia, and is trying to get scheduled for a surgery L What do you recommend for after the surgery? He is very toxic, smoking, drinking and after 16 months in Africa I would say parasite infested too. I expect him to require a very long time to heal. What products would be best to aid in his recovery (until I can convince him to do the system detox after he heals)? Anella -----Original Message----- herbal remedies [herbal remedies ] On Behalf Of Doc Shillington Thursday, December 06, 2007 12:53 PM herbal remedies {Herbal Remedies} Re: What to do for a Hernia Dear Leonie, I'm afraid this is one of those weird ones where there is no natural remedy. At least not one I know of, and I've searched far and wide for one. This is one of the few exceptions where the Medicos come in handy and where a surgical procedure is necessary. This and getting the bullets and the steering wheels out, is the one area (emergencies) where they are truly needed. Love, Doc twin wrote: Hello all, I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions for a hernia? A friend of mine is supposed to have surgery and I told him to wait and see if I could find something better for him to do. Thanks for any help. *SMILE* Léonie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 I am wondering if anyone has ever seen a inguinal hernia cured without surgery. I am an Acupuncturist and Herbalist but feel probably will only help with pain in the case of an inguinal hernia. I have done some research on the web and the only place that claims it can be done is a website that sells hernia support. Not the most credible source and the only one I could find. Also, I found an study in JAMA that said " watchful waiting " may be as good as Surgery. If you have any experience with patients who tried " watchful waiting " I would be interested in your observations. thanks John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 8:56 AM, john wysong <bear7_77 wrote: > > > I am wondering if anyone has ever seen a inguinal hernia cured without > surgery. > I've never treated this myself. > I am an Acupuncturist and Herbalist but feel probably > will only help with pain in the case of an inguinal hernia. > I think there are more options than just treating pain. > I have done some research on the web and the only place that claims it can > be done is a website that sells hernia support. Not the most credible > source and the only one I could find. > Right. There's something of a history in CM regarding this and related conditions. What you should search for is " shan qi " . My internal medicine book describes five different kinds. 1. *Cold type*: characterized by coldness and firmness in the testicles. 2. *Watery type*: an accumulation of fluid in the scrotum (hydrocele) or swollen veins in the scrotum (varicosele), or excema. 3. *Qi type*: distension and pain in the testicles and lower abdomen. 4. *Foxy type*: where a portion of the intestine is intermittently squeezed through an aperture or weakness in the abdominal wall. 5. *Hard type*: a hard, solid mass with loss of testicular sensation. I got this from the Clinical Handbook of Internal Medicine<http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8 & location=http%3A%2F%2Fww\ w.amazon.com%2Fs%3Fie%3DUTF8%26x%3D0%26ref_%3Dnb%255Fss%26y%3D0%26field-keywords\ %3D1-875760-93-8%26url%3Dsearch-alias%253Dstripbooks & tag=stargiftzcom-20 & linkCod\ e=ur2 & camp=1789 & creative=390957>by Will Maclean and Jane Lyttleton. There are nine formulas described. Another book that may address this question is Principles of Chinese Medical Andrology<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1891845454?ie=UTF8 & tag=stargiftzcom-2\ 0 & linkCode=as2 & camp=1789 & creative=390957 & creativeASIN=1891845454>by Bob Damone of PCOM in San Diego. > > Also, I found an study in JAMA that said " watchful waiting " may be as good > as Surgery. If you have any experience with patients who tried " watchful > waiting " I would be interested in your observations. > I love to see " watchful waiting " because that's a green light for slower alternative therapies such as what we do. Good luck on this, and I say go for it! -al. > > thanks > John > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 Worked for me. Of course the word " cure " can legally only be used to refer to successful treatments based on drugs and surgery, so no. There are two etiologies for hernia in TCM. Spleen qi deficiency not holding things in place and cold in the liver meridian. - " john wysong " <bear7_77 <Chinese Traditional Medicine > Saturday, November 21, 2009 10:56 AM [Chinese Traditional Medicine] hernia I am wondering if anyone has ever seen a inguinal hernia cured without surgery. I am an Acupuncturist and Herbalist but feel probably will only help with pain in the case of an inguinal hernia. I have done some research on the web and the only place that claims it can be done is a website that sells hernia support. Not the most credible source and the only one I could find. Also, I found an study in JAMA that said " watchful waiting " may be as good as Surgery. If you have any experience with patients who tried " watchful waiting " I would be interested in your observations. thanks John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 I think it can be regarded as Shan-disorder, try searching on that. This is for hernia from acuxo.com: BL29 . Zhong Lu Shu SP13 . Fu She SP14 . Fu Jie ST26 . Wai Ling I would also consider Liver 4, 5 that is indicated for Shan-disorder. Maybe also consider Spleen 4 and Kidney 4, Luo of Spleen and Kidney respectively, depending on where the hearnia is and which meridian going through the area. Interesting that it is illegal to use the word " cure " for all but medicine and surgery which I do not think is a cure at all, just a way of covering up or cut out the symptoms of disease, not curing it. It is like cutting off a leaf of a plant when it goes bad because it has gotten to much or too little water. /P Chinese Traditional Medicine , " Mercurius Trismegistus " <magisterium_magnum wrote: > > Worked for me. Of course the word " cure " can legally only be used to refer > to successful treatments based on drugs and surgery, so no. > There are two etiologies for hernia in TCM. Spleen qi deficiency not > holding things in place and cold in the liver meridian. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 1:22 PM, pejo_mstd <pejo_mstd wrote: > > > Interesting that it is illegal to use the word " cure " for all but medicine > and surgery > I'm wondering where people get this? I think using the word " cure " is a tad irresponsible and perhaps uninformed, unless we're talking about cancer which is a different animal, but other than that, who says we can't cure disease? There is a law that affects dietary supplements, but that law doesn't apply to the practice of Oriental medicine as I understand it. Within our practices, we can treat disease. However that only applies to one-to-one relationships. It is NOT something we can say in one-to-many relationships as you might find on a website that sells herbs. On the other hand, we CAN say we can " cure " something if we are not selling it at the same time. Researchers say that things " cure " all the time (once they've defined " cure " ), the only difference is that they're selling information, not the therapy. Same thing with that infomercial guy, Kevin Trudeau. He can say that this or that vitamin or herb can cure cancer or whatever because he isn't selling the medicine, rather he is selling books. I might add too that cancer is a unique situation in the American system, and only " oncologists " are allowed to treat cancer, in which case the word " cure " rarely comes up. Rather, they talk about " survival rates " or " five year survival rates " which is their way of saying " cure " . Can anybody who knows the law(s) in question illuminate me on this? -al. -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. http://twitter.com/algancao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Ha, spoke to soon. The FTC got Kevin Trudeau big time for making statements that couldn't be proven. This may be where we TCMers need to be careful with our statements. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Trudeau However, I still believe that in a one-to-one relationship such as we see in a practice, we're still allowed to speak honestly. On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Al Stone <al wrote: > > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 1:22 PM, pejo_mstd <pejo_mstd wrote: > >> >> >> Interesting that it is illegal to use the word " cure " for all but medicine >> and surgery >> > I'm wondering where people get this? > -- , DAOM Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. http://twitter.com/algancao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 hehe yeah =) he's actually been banned as far as I know from infomercials, so he's found a loophole in the law where he can be on infomercials promoting books about debt management because of first amendment rights. I think this kind of guy is truly why these laws got enacted in the first place =) He makes all kinds of false claims though and really feeds on conspiracy. He's been incarcerated for fraud and larceny, and sued by the FDA and FTC multiple times. It might just be better he's not allowed by law to be on TV promoting health " cures " . There was a guy that owns a western herbal school and shop around here, and he was using the word cure and tonic with his patients, with his school, and on his products. He ended up having to go to court and doing some jail time and he had to change all the names of his products. I don't really know what the specific law is though. The law that makes you put " This statement has not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. " on packaging is called the DSHEA or Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Testimony/ucm115163.htm http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/DietarySupplements_pf.asp http://www.fda.gov/Food/LabelingNutrition/LabelClaims/ucm111447.htm I don't know if that Act addresses what you can say about a product, but it might =) Chinese Traditional Medicine , Al Stone <al wrote: > > Ha, spoke to soon. > > The FTC got Kevin Trudeau big time for making statements that couldn't be > proven. This may be where we TCMers need to be careful with our statements. > Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Trudeau > > However, I still believe that in a one-to-one relationship such as we see in > a practice, we're still allowed to speak honestly. > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Al Stone <al wrote: > > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 1:22 PM, pejo_mstd <pejo_mstd wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> Interesting that it is illegal to use the word " cure " for all but medicine > >> and surgery > >> > > I'm wondering where people get this? > > > -- > , DAOM > Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. > http://twitter.com/algancao > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Hi everyone, THanks for your input. If possible, I would really love to hear from someone who has actually treated an inguinal hernia successfully ( note I did not use " cure " ) By successful, I mean the bulge in the abdomen went away ( not just pain) or a doctor said there is no hernia anymore. The legalities of the FDA statement is an interesting topic. I would also be interested to hear from someone who knows the law on this. A strict interpretation might be to follow the FDA statement to the letter. All diagnosis and treatment must be differential. My guess is the powers that be, do not want any non Doctor diagnosing, treating, curing, or preventing a " Western named disease " . ex. If you say on your website that you can treat, cure or prevent acid reflux. That is probably not acceptable. Probably limited to saying can treat Rebellious Stomach Qi. John Wysong L.Ac Chinese Traditional Medicine , " pejo_mstd " <pejo_mstd wrote: > > I think it can be regarded as Shan-disorder, try searching on that. > > This is for hernia from acuxo.com: > > BL29 . Zhong Lu Shu > SP13 . Fu She > SP14 . Fu Jie > ST26 . Wai Ling > > I would also consider Liver 4, 5 that is indicated for Shan-disorder. Maybe also consider Spleen 4 and Kidney 4, Luo of Spleen and Kidney respectively, depending on where the hearnia is and which meridian going through the area. > > Interesting that it is illegal to use the word " cure " for all but medicine and surgery which I do not think is a cure at all, just a way of covering up or cut out the symptoms of disease, not curing it. It is like cutting off a leaf of a plant when it goes bad because it has gotten to much or too little water. > > /P > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " Mercurius Trismegistus " <magisterium_magnum@> wrote: > > > > Worked for me. Of course the word " cure " can legally only be used to refer > > to successful treatments based on drugs and surgery, so no. > > There are two etiologies for hernia in TCM. Spleen qi deficiency not > > holding things in place and cold in the liver meridian. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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