Guest guest Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 In Holland there are some big changes to happen to the insurance for alternative therapies. A big insurance compagny announced that from april of this year the compensations for alternative therapies wil be lowered. Also, from April, only Medical doctors-acupuncturist can make use of the insurance's compensations. This is the First insurance compagny that will start with this and its expected that many others will follow. This is very bad news for practioners (like me) who dont have any background as MD. (altought we all have done a basic western medicine course) Its not sure how the other insurance compagny's will react on this first step. But one thing is for sure , the war has started. I've heard that in France , its forbidden to non MD's to penetrate the skin with needles. Is this true? What about then for making tattoo's on the skin. They also make use of superficial needles to penetrate the skin. Well i will keep you informed about the development of the proces in Holland best wishes Rick ______________________________\ ____ Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Games. http://games./games/front Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 Rick: Something is rotten in Holland. This is not good news. Does your acupuncture societies stay on top of this - get active? I think one must stay on this situation however it does not mean that your practice is parachuting down. I recommend a book by Lynn Grodzki - Building Your Own Ideal Private Practice. She is a therapist, but includes acupuncturists in her discussion. Her basic premise is, stay away from managed care - it works people to death with lower compensation. She tells you how to build a practice without it. Of course the rates for the patient will be higher. If we want the medical model, we will have to treat a lot of people at a time. Perhaps the Community Acupuncture is the answer. Also you can do both individual treatments (at good rates) and community acupuncture. Hope this helps, Anne -------------- Original message ---------------------- Rick <rick_kamps1973 > In Holland there are some big changes to happen to the insurance for alternative > therapies. > A big insurance compagny announced that from april of this year the > compensations for alternative therapies wil be lowered. Also, from April, only > Medical doctors-acupuncturist can make use of the insurance's compensations. > This is the First insurance compagny that will start with this and its expected > that many others will follow. > > This is very bad news for practioners (like me) who dont have any background as > MD. (altought we all have done a basic western medicine course) > Its not sure how the other insurance compagny's will react on this first step. > But one thing is for sure , the war has started. > > I've heard that in France , its forbidden to non MD's to penetrate the skin > with needles. Is this true? What about then for making tattoo's on the skin. > They also make use of superficial needles to penetrate the skin. > > Well i will keep you informed about the development of the proces in Holland > > best wishes > > Rick > > > > > Alon Marcus <alonmarcus > Chinese Medicine > Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:26:15 PM > Re: Re: Chinese Formula Data at: http://sx.hbttc.org/basic > > Phil > The links do not work > > > > > > > > www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com > - > > > Cc: EVHMA ; traditional_ Chinese_Medicine > Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:37 AM > Re: Chinese Formula Data at: http://sx.hbttc. org/basic > > Hi Alon & All, > > > Phil What is this formula? Alon > > Alon, apologies, for not being more understandable in that mail. > > http://sx.hbttc. org/basic has summary data on the composition and uses of > hundreds of formulas, under many classifications, as below. The data are in > Chinese. This means that one would need to understand Chinese to use the > data effectively: > > The Classes of Formulas listed are: > > Anshen Ji | Calm Shen Formulas > Biao-Li Shuangjie | Exterior-Interior Dual Release Formulas > Buyi Ji | Tone & Benefit Formulas > Guse Ji | Consolidate & Astringe Formulas > Hejie Ji | Harmonise & Release Formulas > Jiebiao Ji | Release Exterior+Make Sweat Formulas > Kaiqiao Ji | Open Portals (Open Consciousness) Formulas > Liqi Ji | Rectify Qi Formulas > Lixue Ji | Rectify Xue Formulas > Qingre Ji | Clear Heat Formulas > Quchongji | Dispel/Expel Parasites (Parasitifuge) Formulas > Qushi Ji | Dispel Damp Formulas > Qushu Ji | Dispel Summerheat Formulas > Qutan Ji | Dispel Phlegm/Expectorant Formulas > Shachong Ji | Parasiticide Formulas > Shili Ji | Damp~Interior Formulas > Xiaodao Huaji Ji | Ease Indigestion (Disperse & Lead Out) Formulas > Xiexia Ji | Drain Down (Purgative) Formulas > Zhenduan Yongyao | Diagnosis & Application of Herbs > Zhifeng Ji | Govern (Cure / Stop) Wind Formulas > Zhike Pingchuan Ji | Stop Cough & Calm Asthma Formulas > Zhiyang Ji | Cure Sores Formulas > Zhizao Ji | Cure Dryness Formulas > > Go to http://sx.hbttc. org/basic and click on any icon in the centre of the > page. For example, the Stop Cough & Ease Asthma Class of formulas lists > summary details of 73 different formulas: > > bai ke jing tangjiang > bai ling jiaonang > bu shen fang chuan pian > chuan shu pian > chuanbei pipa chongji(koufuye, tangjiang) > dansuan zhike pian > ding chuan gao > er tong ke ye > fengre kesou jiaonang(ruan jiaonang) > fufang baibu zhike chongji(tangjiang) > fufang chuanbei jing pian > gejie ding chuan jiaonang(wan) > gu ben ke chuan pian > gu shen ding chuan wan > gui long ke chuan ning jiaonang > hei xi dan > heng zhi ke chuan jiaonang > ji dan koufuye > ji zhi keli(tangjiang) > jian'er qingjie ye > jiang qi ding chuan wan > jiegeng dong huapian > jiere qing fei tangjiang > jin bei tan ke qing keli > jing zhi kesou tanchuan wan > ke chuan shun wan > ke ning chongji(tangjiang, jiaonang) > kugan chongji > li fei pian > ling bei zhike tangjiang > ling gui ke chuan ning jiaonang > liqi ding chuan wan > lu si ge wan > man zhi gu ben chongji > mangguo zhike pian > ning shu lu(tangjiang ji) > niuhuang qing fei san > pipa zhike chongji(jiaonang) > qianjin huatan wan > qiguanyan xiangjiao gao > qing an chuan ding pian > qingre zhen ke tangjiang > renshen bao fei wan > san hao shedan chuanbei pian > san shedan chuanbei tangjiang > shedan chuanbei pipagao > shen bei beigua gao > tian yi zhike tangjiang > tong xuan li fei jiaonang(koufuye, wan) > xiao ke chuan tangjiang(jiaonang) > xiao'er feire ke chuan keli > xiao'er feire ke chuan koufuye > xiao'er ma gan chongji > xiao'er qing fei koufuye(wan) > xiao'er qing fei san > xiao'er qing fei zhike pian > xiao'er qingre zhike koufuye > xiao'er xiao ji zhike koufuye > xiao'er zhi sou tangjiang > yi fei qinghua gao > Yin xing lu > zhen ke ning jiaonang(tangjiang, koufuye) > zhi chuan ling zhushe ye > zhi chuan lingqi wu ji(koufuye) > zhi ke bao pian > zhi ke wan > zhi sou qingguo heji(koufuye, wan) > zhike chuanbei pipalu > zhike juhong koufuye(wan, keli) > zhike ningsou jiao xiang > zhikepingchuan ji > zhikepingchuan tangjiang > zhubei ding chuan wan > > I wish that I were fluent in Chinese, or that top class machine translations > were available! > > Best regards, > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 Hi Rick, Yes, non MD's cannot practice acupuncture or herbal medicine. This is true in other European countries such as Spain, etc, which use Napoleonic law. It's a shame the insurance companies have done that. I think your association should do its best through the media and educate the insurance companies that MD trained acupuncturists do not offer the best type of acupuncture treatment. To be honest, they shouldn't be allowed to even call it acupuncture or use the word acupuncture. Medical acupuncture has absolutely nothing to do with acupuncture. Attilio www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Chinese Medicine , Rick <rick_kamps1973 wrote: > > In Holland there are some big changes to happen to the insurance for alternative therapies. > A big insurance compagny announced that from april of this year the compensations for alternative therapies wil be lowered. Also, from April, only Medical doctors-acupuncturist can make use of the insurance's compensations. This is the First insurance compagny that will start with this and its expected that many others will follow. > > This is very bad news for practioners (like me) who dont have any background as MD. (altought we all have done a basic western medicine course) > Its not sure how the other insurance compagny's will react on this first step. But one thing is for sure , the war has started. > > I've heard that in France , its forbidden to non MD's to penetrate the skin with needles. Is this true? What about then for making tattoo's on the skin. They also make use of superficial needles to penetrate the skin. > > Well i will keep you informed about the development of the proces in Holland > > best wishes > > Rick > > > > > Alon Marcus <alonmarcus > Chinese Medicine > Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:26:15 PM > Re: Re: Chinese Formula Data at: http://sx.hbttc.org/basic > > Phil > The links do not work > > > > > > > > www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com > - > > > Cc: EVHMA ; traditional_ Chinese_Medicine > Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:37 AM > Re: Chinese Formula Data at: http://sx.hbttc. org/basic > > Hi Alon & All, > > > Phil What is this formula? Alon > > Alon, apologies, for not being more understandable in that mail. > > http://sx.hbttc. org/basic has summary data on the composition and uses of > hundreds of formulas, under many classifications, as below. The data are in > Chinese. This means that one would need to understand Chinese to use the > data effectively: > > The Classes of Formulas listed are: > > Anshen Ji | Calm Shen Formulas > Biao-Li Shuangjie | Exterior-Interior Dual Release Formulas > Buyi Ji | Tone & Benefit Formulas > Guse Ji | Consolidate & Astringe Formulas > Hejie Ji | Harmonise & Release Formulas > Jiebiao Ji | Release Exterior+Make Sweat Formulas > Kaiqiao Ji | Open Portals (Open Consciousness) Formulas > Liqi Ji | Rectify Qi Formulas > Lixue Ji | Rectify Xue Formulas > Qingre Ji | Clear Heat Formulas > Quchongji | Dispel/Expel Parasites (Parasitifuge) Formulas > Qushi Ji | Dispel Damp Formulas > Qushu Ji | Dispel Summerheat Formulas > Qutan Ji | Dispel Phlegm/Expectorant Formulas > Shachong Ji | Parasiticide Formulas > Shili Ji | Damp~Interior Formulas > Xiaodao Huaji Ji | Ease Indigestion (Disperse & Lead Out) Formulas > Xiexia Ji | Drain Down (Purgative) Formulas > Zhenduan Yongyao | Diagnosis & Application of Herbs > Zhifeng Ji | Govern (Cure / Stop) Wind Formulas > Zhike Pingchuan Ji | Stop Cough & Calm Asthma Formulas > Zhiyang Ji | Cure Sores Formulas > Zhizao Ji | Cure Dryness Formulas > > Go to http://sx.hbttc. org/basic and click on any icon in the centre of the > page. For example, the Stop Cough & Ease Asthma Class of formulas lists > summary details of 73 different formulas: > > bai ke jing tangjiang > bai ling jiaonang > bu shen fang chuan pian > chuan shu pian > chuanbei pipa chongji(koufuye, tangjiang) > dansuan zhike pian > ding chuan gao > er tong ke ye > fengre kesou jiaonang(ruan jiaonang) > fufang baibu zhike chongji(tangjiang) > fufang chuanbei jing pian > gejie ding chuan jiaonang(wan) > gu ben ke chuan pian > gu shen ding chuan wan > gui long ke chuan ning jiaonang > hei xi dan > heng zhi ke chuan jiaonang > ji dan koufuye > ji zhi keli(tangjiang) > jian'er qingjie ye > jiang qi ding chuan wan > jiegeng dong huapian > jiere qing fei tangjiang > jin bei tan ke qing keli > jing zhi kesou tanchuan wan > ke chuan shun wan > ke ning chongji(tangjiang, jiaonang) > kugan chongji > li fei pian > ling bei zhike tangjiang > ling gui ke chuan ning jiaonang > liqi ding chuan wan > lu si ge wan > man zhi gu ben chongji > mangguo zhike pian > ning shu lu(tangjiang ji) > niuhuang qing fei san > pipa zhike chongji(jiaonang) > qianjin huatan wan > qiguanyan xiangjiao gao > qing an chuan ding pian > qingre zhen ke tangjiang > renshen bao fei wan > san hao shedan chuanbei pian > san shedan chuanbei tangjiang > shedan chuanbei pipagao > shen bei beigua gao > tian yi zhike tangjiang > tong xuan li fei jiaonang(koufuye, wan) > xiao ke chuan tangjiang(jiaonang) > xiao'er feire ke chuan keli > xiao'er feire ke chuan koufuye > xiao'er ma gan chongji > xiao'er qing fei koufuye(wan) > xiao'er qing fei san > xiao'er qing fei zhike pian > xiao'er qingre zhike koufuye > xiao'er xiao ji zhike koufuye > xiao'er zhi sou tangjiang > yi fei qinghua gao > Yin xing lu > zhen ke ning jiaonang(tangjiang, koufuye) > zhi chuan ling zhushe ye > zhi chuan lingqi wu ji(koufuye) > zhi ke bao pian > zhi ke wan > zhi sou qingguo heji(koufuye, wan) > zhike chuanbei pipalu > zhike juhong koufuye(wan, keli) > zhike ningsou jiao xiang > zhikepingchuan ji > zhikepingchuan tangjiang > zhubei ding chuan wan > > I wish that I were fluent in Chinese, or that top class machine translations > were available! > > Best regards, > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 Hi Rick, that is bad news indeed. You had been priviliged in Holland because of the high level of reimbursement by insurance companies, creating possibly more clients and also higher prices. In Belgium, people pay out of pocket in 90% of the cases. Which professional organization do you belong to? NVA? I can't imagine that they are going to let this happen. MD's in Belgium have also started a new offensive to get exclusive rights for acupuncture treatments. In Belgium there was a law in '99 ( " de wet Colla ) that legalized acupuncture (and osteopathy, chiropraxy and homeopathy) but since the arrival of a new government that law has not been implemented. Reason for this is that the liberals make up the government, and MD's and lots of their families vote liberal. They have a lot of money and political power so the liberals cannot justify a true legalization of alternative medicine to their voters (this has been voiced by a minister to a colleague of mine). In July we will have a new government in Belgium. I think I will vote socialist since they do want as much reimbursement as possible for their voters, including acupuncture. About France: both France and Italy only allow MD's to perform acupuncture. I don't know about Spain. But even in countries like France, there are many non-MD acupuncturists that practice. This is mentioned in the Thieme calendar; sometimes they will catch one of those acupuncturists and close his office, but not very often. I personally get many patients referred by MD's, so I don't think all is lost. The only MD's that want exclusive righths are the Medical Acupuncturists themselves. There are only 400 of those in Belgium (amongst 80.000 MD's) so I think we have a future. Best, Tom. ---- Rick 24/03/2007 13:48:36 Chinese Medicine bad news: Changes in holland In Holland there are some big changes to happen to the insurance for alternative therapies. A big insurance compagny announced that from april of this year the compensations for alternative therapies wil be lowered. Also, from April, only Medical doctors-acupuncturist can make use of the insurance's compensations. This is the First insurance compagny that will start with this and its expected that many others will follow. This is very bad news for practioners (like me) who dont have any background as MD. (altought we all have done a basic western medicine course) Its not sure how the other insurance compagny's will react on this first step. But one thing is for sure , the war has started. I've heard that in France , its forbidden to non MD's to penetrate the skin with needles. Is this true? What about then for making tattoo's on the skin. They also make use of superficial needles to penetrate the skin. Well i will keep you informed about the development of the proces in Holland best wishes Rick Alon Marcus <alonmarcus Chinese Medicine Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:26:15 PM Re: Re: Chinese Formula Data at: http://sx.hbttc.org/basic Phil The links do not work www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com - Cc: EVHMA ; traditional_ Chinese_Medicine Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:37 AM Re: Chinese Formula Data at: http://sx.hbttc. org/basic Hi Alon & All, > Phil What is this formula? Alon Alon, apologies, for not being more understandable in that mail. http://sx.hbttc. org/basic has summary data on the composition and uses of hundreds of formulas, under many classifications, as below. The data are in Chinese. This means that one would need to understand Chinese to use the data effectively: The Classes of Formulas listed are: Anshen Ji | Calm Shen Formulas Biao-Li Shuangjie | Exterior-Interior Dual Release Formulas Buyi Ji | Tone & Benefit Formulas Guse Ji | Consolidate & Astringe Formulas Hejie Ji | Harmonise & Release Formulas Jiebiao Ji | Release Exterior+Make Sweat Formulas Kaiqiao Ji | Open Portals (Open Consciousness) Formulas Liqi Ji | Rectify Qi Formulas Lixue Ji | Rectify Xue Formulas Qingre Ji | Clear Heat Formulas Quchongji | Dispel/Expel Parasites (Parasitifuge) Formulas Qushi Ji | Dispel Damp Formulas Qushu Ji | Dispel Summerheat Formulas Qutan Ji | Dispel Phlegm/Expectorant Formulas Shachong Ji | Parasiticide Formulas Shili Ji | Damp~Interior Formulas Xiaodao Huaji Ji | Ease Indigestion (Disperse & Lead Out) Formulas Xiexia Ji | Drain Down (Purgative) Formulas Zhenduan Yongyao | Diagnosis & Application of Herbs Zhifeng Ji | Govern (Cure / Stop) Wind Formulas Zhike Pingchuan Ji | Stop Cough & Calm Asthma Formulas Zhiyang Ji | Cure Sores Formulas Zhizao Ji | Cure Dryness Formulas Go to http://sx.hbttc. org/basic and click on any icon in the centre of the page. For example, the Stop Cough & Ease Asthma Class of formulas lists summary details of 73 different formulas: bai ke jing tangjiang bai ling jiaonang bu shen fang chuan pian chuan shu pian chuanbei pipa chongji(koufuye, tangjiang) dansuan zhike pian ding chuan gao er tong ke ye fengre kesou jiaonang(ruan jiaonang) fufang baibu zhike chongji(tangjiang) fufang chuanbei jing pian gejie ding chuan jiaonang(wan) gu ben ke chuan pian gu shen ding chuan wan gui long ke chuan ning jiaonang hei xi dan heng zhi ke chuan jiaonang ji dan koufuye ji zhi keli(tangjiang) jian'er qingjie ye jiang qi ding chuan wan jiegeng dong huapian jiere qing fei tangjiang jin bei tan ke qing keli jing zhi kesou tanchuan wan ke chuan shun wan ke ning chongji(tangjiang, jiaonang) kugan chongji li fei pian ling bei zhike tangjiang ling gui ke chuan ning jiaonang liqi ding chuan wan lu si ge wan man zhi gu ben chongji mangguo zhike pian ning shu lu(tangjiang ji) niuhuang qing fei san pipa zhike chongji(jiaonang) qianjin huatan wan qiguanyan xiangjiao gao qing an chuan ding pian qingre zhen ke tangjiang renshen bao fei wan san hao shedan chuanbei pian san shedan chuanbei tangjiang shedan chuanbei pipagao shen bei beigua gao tian yi zhike tangjiang tong xuan li fei jiaonang(koufuye, wan) xiao ke chuan tangjiang(jiaonang) xiao'er feire ke chuan keli xiao'er feire ke chuan koufuye xiao'er ma gan chongji xiao'er qing fei koufuye(wan) xiao'er qing fei san xiao'er qing fei zhike pian xiao'er qingre zhike koufuye xiao'er xiao ji zhike koufuye xiao'er zhi sou tangjiang yi fei qinghua gao Yin xing lu zhen ke ning jiaonang(tangjiang, koufuye) zhi chuan ling zhushe ye zhi chuan lingqi wu ji(koufuye) zhi ke bao pian zhi ke wan zhi sou qingguo heji(koufuye, wan) zhike chuanbei pipalu zhike juhong koufuye(wan, keli) zhike ningsou jiao xiang zhikepingchuan ji zhikepingchuan tangjiang zhubei ding chuan wan I wish that I were fluent in Chinese, or that top class machine translations were available! Best regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 Hi Rick, Tom, Too bad about the Dutch situation! In Denmark until this year only MDs or aupuncturists supervised by MDs could practice acupuncture legally (Pircing of the skin for medical reasons were only allowed to be performed by MDs - practices such as cosmetic piercing and tattoing are not under any such regulative measure). Following ten years of lobby and commitee work under a liberal government (most of the time) the law was revised - under much protest from the established medical community at large - so that from January 1st 2007 acupuncturists can now practice without supervision from MDs provided that they fulfil certain requirments. Unfortunately education is NOT one of them, however the Danish Dept. of Health has issued a title (Registered Alternative Therapist) to be distributed by different guilds that fulfil special requirements (Member's educational standard, liability insurance and more) - §s in the revised law states that therapist who is qualified to the above title is legally allowed to: " diagnose and treat or do preventional treatment of disease " as long as the therapist makes sure to refer out when necessary. This - as well as public demand - has spawned new interest in the insurance companies to reimburse ie acupunture treatments performed by therapist with the above title of Registered Alternative Therapist (in Danish: R.A.B.) It is my hope that the rest of Europe, where acupuncturists are still " enslaved " og practicing illegally will try to follow this example Public demand for qualified complimentary and alternative treatment options is on the rise here and following the booming economy people are becoming more and more willing to pay for treatment as well as becoming more and more desillusioned regarding Western Medical care which is free in Denmark, but suck big time in quality and the waiting list are stupifying........ Best regards, Thomas Sorensen Acupuncturist, PA, RAB Denmark 2007/3/26, Tom Verhaeghe <tom.verhaeghe: > > > Hi Rick, > > that is bad news indeed. You had been priviliged in Holland because of the > high level of reimbursement by insurance companies, creating possibly more > clients and also higher prices. In Belgium, people pay out of pocket in > 90% > of the cases. > > Which professional organization do you belong to? NVA? I can't imagine > that > they are going to let this happen. > > MD's in Belgium have also started a new offensive to get exclusive rights > for acupuncture treatments. In Belgium there was a law in '99 ( " de wet > Colla > ) that legalized acupuncture (and osteopathy, chiropraxy and homeopathy) > but > since the arrival of a new government that law has not been implemented. > Reason for this is that the liberals make up the government, and MD's and > lots of their families vote liberal. They have a lot of money and > political > power so the liberals cannot justify a true legalization of alternative > medicine to their voters (this has been voiced by a minister to a > colleague > of mine). > In July we will have a new government in Belgium. I think I will vote > socialist since they do want as much reimbursement as possible for their > voters, including acupuncture. > > About France: both France and Italy only allow MD's to perform > acupuncture. > I don't know about Spain. But even in countries like France, there are > many > non-MD acupuncturists that practice. This is mentioned in the Thieme > calendar; sometimes they will catch one of those acupuncturists and close > his office, but not very often. > > I personally get many patients referred by MD's, so I don't think all is > lost. The only MD's that want exclusive righths are the Medical > Acupuncturists themselves. There are only 400 of those in Belgium (amongst > 80.000 MD's) so I think we have a future. > > Best, > > Tom. > > ---- > > Rick > 24/03/2007 13:48:36 > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > bad news: Changes in holland > > In Holland there are some big changes to happen to the insurance for > alternative therapies. > A big insurance compagny announced that from april of this year the > compensations for alternative therapies wil be lowered. Also, from April, > only Medical doctors-acupuncturist can make use of the insurance's > compensations. This is the First insurance compagny that will start with > this and its expected that many others will follow. > > This is very bad news for practioners (like me) who dont have any > background > as MD. (altought we all have done a basic western medicine course) > Its not sure how the other insurance compagny's will react on this first > step. But one thing is for sure , the war has started. > > I've heard that in France , its forbidden to non MD's to penetrate the > skin > with needles. Is this true? What about then for making tattoo's on the > skin. > They also make use of superficial needles to penetrate the skin. > > Well i will keep you informed about the development of the proces in > Holland > > best wishes > > Rick > > > Alon Marcus <alonmarcus <alonmarcus%40wans.net>> > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:26:15 PM > Re: Re: Chinese Formula Data at: http://sx.hbttc.org/basic > > Phil > The links do not work > > > > > > > > www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com > - > > > Cc: EVHMA ; traditional_ Chinese_Medicine @. > com > > Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:37 AM > Re: Chinese Formula Data at: http://sx.hbttc. org/basic > > Hi Alon & All, > > > Phil What is this formula? Alon > > Alon, apologies, for not being more understandable in that mail. > > http://sx.hbttc. org/basic has summary data on the composition and uses of > > hundreds of formulas, under many classifications, as below. The data are > in > Chinese. This means that one would need to understand Chinese to use the > data effectively: > > The Classes of Formulas listed are: > > Anshen Ji | Calm Shen Formulas > Biao-Li Shuangjie | Exterior-Interior Dual Release Formulas > Buyi Ji | Tone & Benefit Formulas > Guse Ji | Consolidate & Astringe Formulas > Hejie Ji | Harmonise & Release Formulas > Jiebiao Ji | Release Exterior+Make Sweat Formulas > Kaiqiao Ji | Open Portals (Open Consciousness) Formulas > Liqi Ji | Rectify Qi Formulas > Lixue Ji | Rectify Xue Formulas > Qingre Ji | Clear Heat Formulas > Quchongji | Dispel/Expel Parasites (Parasitifuge) Formulas > Qushi Ji | Dispel Damp Formulas > Qushu Ji | Dispel Summerheat Formulas > Qutan Ji | Dispel Phlegm/Expectorant Formulas > Shachong Ji | Parasiticide Formulas > Shili Ji | Damp~Interior Formulas > Xiaodao Huaji Ji | Ease Indigestion (Disperse & Lead Out) Formulas > Xiexia Ji | Drain Down (Purgative) Formulas > Zhenduan Yongyao | Diagnosis & Application of Herbs > Zhifeng Ji | Govern (Cure / Stop) Wind Formulas > Zhike Pingchuan Ji | Stop Cough & Calm Asthma Formulas > Zhiyang Ji | Cure Sores Formulas > Zhizao Ji | Cure Dryness Formulas > > Go to http://sx.hbttc. org/basic and click on any icon in the centre of > the > page. For example, the Stop Cough & Ease Asthma Class of formulas lists > summary details of 73 different formulas: > > bai ke jing tangjiang > bai ling jiaonang > bu shen fang chuan pian > chuan shu pian > chuanbei pipa chongji(koufuye, tangjiang) > dansuan zhike pian > ding chuan gao > er tong ke ye > fengre kesou jiaonang(ruan jiaonang) > fufang baibu zhike chongji(tangjiang) > fufang chuanbei jing pian > gejie ding chuan jiaonang(wan) > gu ben ke chuan pian > gu shen ding chuan wan > gui long ke chuan ning jiaonang > hei xi dan > heng zhi ke chuan jiaonang > ji dan koufuye > ji zhi keli(tangjiang) > jian'er qingjie ye > jiang qi ding chuan wan > jiegeng dong huapian > jiere qing fei tangjiang > jin bei tan ke qing keli > jing zhi kesou tanchuan wan > ke chuan shun wan > ke ning chongji(tangjiang, jiaonang) > kugan chongji > li fei pian > ling bei zhike tangjiang > ling gui ke chuan ning jiaonang > liqi ding chuan wan > lu si ge wan > man zhi gu ben chongji > mangguo zhike pian > ning shu lu(tangjiang ji) > niuhuang qing fei san > pipa zhike chongji(jiaonang) > qianjin huatan wan > qiguanyan xiangjiao gao > qing an chuan ding pian > qingre zhen ke tangjiang > renshen bao fei wan > san hao shedan chuanbei pian > san shedan chuanbei tangjiang > shedan chuanbei pipagao > shen bei beigua gao > tian yi zhike tangjiang > tong xuan li fei jiaonang(koufuye, wan) > xiao ke chuan tangjiang(jiaonang) > xiao'er feire ke chuan keli > xiao'er feire ke chuan koufuye > xiao'er ma gan chongji > xiao'er qing fei koufuye(wan) > xiao'er qing fei san > xiao'er qing fei zhike pian > xiao'er qingre zhike koufuye > xiao'er xiao ji zhike koufuye > xiao'er zhi sou tangjiang > yi fei qinghua gao > Yin xing lu > zhen ke ning jiaonang(tangjiang, koufuye) > zhi chuan ling zhushe ye > zhi chuan lingqi wu ji(koufuye) > zhi ke bao pian > zhi ke wan > zhi sou qingguo heji(koufuye, wan) > zhike chuanbei pipalu > zhike juhong koufuye(wan, keli) > zhike ningsou jiao xiang > zhikepingchuan ji > zhikepingchuan tangjiang > zhubei ding chuan wan > > I wish that I were fluent in Chinese, or that top class machine > translations > > were available! > > Best regards, > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2007 Report Share Posted March 27, 2007 Hi , thanks for your responses I've heard about the progress in Danmark also. That's very good news indeed. As for in Holland , its not for sure how things will develop. Its just one insurance compagny for now, and thankfully there are many others. (altough its not for sure how they will act on this) As for Zhong ( the organisation where i am in) has asked all the members and their patients to write or mail his or her's protest to the concerning insurance compagny. Before this strange step of the insurance compagny , things where at a good progress. the different TCM organisations did and do their jobs very well. And i am for sure that they will make a good point to the government. The most important thing is that we dont take a step back but a step forwards to them. I am curious what will happen when whole Europe will fall under one law. The laws about TCM seem to be different in most country's. And which law will stay up after the new constitution? Well ill keep the list up to date about the progress here. Best wishes Rick I will keep in touch about the development here. Tom Verhaeghe <tom.verhaeghe Chinese Medicine Monday, March 26, 2007 10:00:50 AM Re: bad news: Changes in holland Hi Rick, that is bad news indeed. You had been priviliged in Holland because of the high level of reimbursement by insurance companies, creating possibly more clients and also higher prices. In Belgium, people pay out of pocket in 90% of the cases. Which professional organization do you belong to? NVA? I can't imagine that they are going to let this happen. MD's in Belgium have also started a new offensive to get exclusive rights for acupuncture treatments. In Belgium there was a law in '99 ( " de wet Colla ) that legalized acupuncture (and osteopathy, chiropraxy and homeopathy) but since the arrival of a new government that law has not been implemented. Reason for this is that the liberals make up the government, and MD's and lots of their families vote liberal. They have a lot of money and political power so the liberals cannot justify a true legalization of alternative medicine to their voters (this has been voiced by a minister to a colleague of mine). In July we will have a new government in Belgium. I think I will vote socialist since they do want as much reimbursement as possible for their voters, including acupuncture. About France: both France and Italy only allow MD's to perform acupuncture. I don't know about Spain. But even in countries like France, there are many non-MD acupuncturists that practice. This is mentioned in the Thieme calendar; sometimes they will catch one of those acupuncturists and close his office, but not very often. I personally get many patients referred by MD's, so I don't think all is lost. The only MD's that want exclusive righths are the Medical Acupuncturists themselves. There are only 400 of those in Belgium (amongst 80.000 MD's) so I think we have a future. Best, Tom. -- -- Rick 24/03/2007 13:48:36 bad news: Changes in holland In Holland there are some big changes to happen to the insurance for alternative therapies. A big insurance compagny announced that from april of this year the compensations for alternative therapies wil be lowered. Also, from April, only Medical doctors-acupuncturi st can make use of the insurance's compensations. This is the First insurance compagny that will start with this and its expected that many others will follow. This is very bad news for practioners (like me) who dont have any background as MD. (altought we all have done a basic western medicine course) Its not sure how the other insurance compagny's will react on this first step. But one thing is for sure , the war has started. I've heard that in France , its forbidden to non MD's to penetrate the skin with needles. Is this true? What about then for making tattoo's on the skin. They also make use of superficial needles to penetrate the skin. Well i will keep you informed about the development of the proces in Holland best wishes Rick Alon Marcus <alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) net> Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:26:15 PM Re: Re: Chinese Formula Data at: http://sx.hbttc. org/basic Phil The links do not work www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com - Cc: EVHMA ; traditional_ Chinese_Medicine Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:37 AM Re: Chinese Formula Data at: http://sx.hbttc. org/basic Hi Alon & All, > Phil What is this formula? Alon Alon, apologies, for not being more understandable in that mail. http://sx.hbttc. org/basic has summary data on the composition and uses of hundreds of formulas, under many classifications, as below. The data are in Chinese. This means that one would need to understand Chinese to use the data effectively: The Classes of Formulas listed are: Anshen Ji | Calm Shen Formulas Biao-Li Shuangjie | Exterior-Interior Dual Release Formulas Buyi Ji | Tone & Benefit Formulas Guse Ji | Consolidate & Astringe Formulas Hejie Ji | Harmonise & Release Formulas Jiebiao Ji | Release Exterior+Make Sweat Formulas Kaiqiao Ji | Open Portals (Open Consciousness) Formulas Liqi Ji | Rectify Qi Formulas Lixue Ji | Rectify Xue Formulas Qingre Ji | Clear Heat Formulas Quchongji | Dispel/Expel Parasites (Parasitifuge) Formulas Qushi Ji | Dispel Damp Formulas Qushu Ji | Dispel Summerheat Formulas Qutan Ji | Dispel Phlegm/Expectorant Formulas Shachong Ji | Parasiticide Formulas Shili Ji | Damp~Interior Formulas Xiaodao Huaji Ji | Ease Indigestion (Disperse & Lead Out) Formulas Xiexia Ji | Drain Down (Purgative) Formulas Zhenduan Yongyao | Diagnosis & Application of Herbs Zhifeng Ji | Govern (Cure / Stop) Wind Formulas Zhike Pingchuan Ji | Stop Cough & Calm Asthma Formulas Zhiyang Ji | Cure Sores Formulas Zhizao Ji | Cure Dryness Formulas Go to http://sx.hbttc. org/basic and click on any icon in the centre of the page. For example, the Stop Cough & Ease Asthma Class of formulas lists summary details of 73 different formulas: bai ke jing tangjiang bai ling jiaonang bu shen fang chuan pian chuan shu pian chuanbei pipa chongji(koufuye, tangjiang) dansuan zhike pian ding chuan gao er tong ke ye fengre kesou jiaonang(ruan jiaonang) fufang baibu zhike chongji(tangjiang) fufang chuanbei jing pian gejie ding chuan jiaonang(wan) gu ben ke chuan pian gu shen ding chuan wan gui long ke chuan ning jiaonang hei xi dan heng zhi ke chuan jiaonang ji dan koufuye ji zhi keli(tangjiang) jian'er qingjie ye jiang qi ding chuan wan jiegeng dong huapian jiere qing fei tangjiang jin bei tan ke qing keli jing zhi kesou tanchuan wan ke chuan shun wan ke ning chongji(tangjiang, jiaonang) kugan chongji li fei pian ling bei zhike tangjiang ling gui ke chuan ning jiaonang liqi ding chuan wan lu si ge wan man zhi gu ben chongji mangguo zhike pian ning shu lu(tangjiang ji) niuhuang qing fei san pipa zhike chongji(jiaonang) qianjin huatan wan qiguanyan xiangjiao gao qing an chuan ding pian qingre zhen ke tangjiang renshen bao fei wan san hao shedan chuanbei pian san shedan chuanbei tangjiang shedan chuanbei pipagao shen bei beigua gao tian yi zhike tangjiang tong xuan li fei jiaonang(koufuye, wan) xiao ke chuan tangjiang(jiaonang) xiao'er feire ke chuan keli xiao'er feire ke chuan koufuye xiao'er ma gan chongji xiao'er qing fei koufuye(wan) xiao'er qing fei san xiao'er qing fei zhike pian xiao'er qingre zhike koufuye xiao'er xiao ji zhike koufuye xiao'er zhi sou tangjiang yi fei qinghua gao Yin xing lu zhen ke ning jiaonang(tangjiang, koufuye) zhi chuan ling zhushe ye zhi chuan lingqi wu ji(koufuye) zhi ke bao pian zhi ke wan zhi sou qingguo heji(koufuye, wan) zhike chuanbei pipalu zhike juhong koufuye(wan, keli) zhike ningsou jiao xiang zhikepingchuan ji zhikepingchuan tangjiang zhubei ding chuan wan I wish that I were fluent in Chinese, or that top class machine translations were available! Best regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Hi Rick, I prefer to look on the bright side of things - a medical system that has produced good results both previous to as well as after the Western Medical system has become dominant doesn't die easily!!! Only if WE let it!! There as an umbrella organisation that does a LOT of lobby work in the EU ( http://www.etcma.org/ ) maybe it would be an idea to work for the inclusion of the org you belong to?! Check out the web page and who the members are ....... counts quite a few and well established ones.... Best regards, Thomas 2007/3/27, Rick <rick_kamps1973: > > Hi , thanks for your responses > > I've heard about the progress in Danmark also. That's very good news > indeed. > As for in Holland , its not for sure how things will develop. Its just one > insurance compagny for now, and thankfully there are many others. (altough > its not for sure how they will act on this) As for Zhong ( the organisation > where i am in) has asked all the members and their patients to write or mail > his or her's protest to the concerning insurance compagny. > > Before this strange step of the insurance compagny , things where at a > good progress. the different TCM organisations did and do their jobs very > well. And i am for sure that they will make a good point to the government. > The most important thing is that we dont take a step back but a step > forwards to them. > I am curious what will happen when whole Europe will fall under one law. > The laws about TCM seem to be different in most country's. And which law > will stay up after the new constitution? > > Well ill keep the list up to date about the progress here. > Best wishes > > Rick > > I will keep in touch about the development here. > > > Tom Verhaeghe <tom.verhaeghe<tom.verhaeghe%40acupunctuur.org> > > > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > Monday, March 26, 2007 10:00:50 AM > Re: bad news: Changes in holland > > Hi Rick, > > that is bad news indeed. You had been priviliged in Holland because of the > high level of reimbursement by insurance companies, creating possibly more > clients and also higher prices. In Belgium, people pay out of pocket in > 90% > of the cases. > > Which professional organization do you belong to? NVA? I can't imagine > that > they are going to let this happen. > > MD's in Belgium have also started a new offensive to get exclusive rights > for acupuncture treatments. In Belgium there was a law in '99 ( " de wet > Colla > ) that legalized acupuncture (and osteopathy, chiropraxy and homeopathy) > but > since the arrival of a new government that law has not been implemented. > Reason for this is that the liberals make up the government, and MD's and > lots of their families vote liberal. They have a lot of money and > political > power so the liberals cannot justify a true legalization of alternative > medicine to their voters (this has been voiced by a minister to a > colleague > of mine). > In July we will have a new government in Belgium. I think I will vote > socialist since they do want as much reimbursement as possible for their > voters, including acupuncture. > > About France: both France and Italy only allow MD's to perform > acupuncture. > I don't know about Spain. But even in countries like France, there are > many > non-MD acupuncturists that practice. This is mentioned in the Thieme > calendar; sometimes they will catch one of those acupuncturists and close > his office, but not very often. > > I personally get many patients referred by MD's, so I don't think all is > lost. The only MD's that want exclusive righths are the Medical > Acupuncturists themselves. There are only 400 of those in Belgium (amongst > 80.000 MD's) so I think we have a future. > > Best, > > Tom. > > -- -- > > Rick > 24/03/2007 13:48:36 > > bad news: Changes in holland > > In Holland there are some big changes to happen to the insurance for > alternative therapies. > A big insurance compagny announced that from april of this year the > compensations for alternative therapies wil be lowered. Also, from April, > only Medical doctors-acupuncturi st can make use of the insurance's > compensations. This is the First insurance compagny that will start with > this and its expected that many others will follow. > > This is very bad news for practioners (like me) who dont have any > background > as MD. (altought we all have done a basic western medicine course) > Its not sure how the other insurance compagny's will react on this first > step. But one thing is for sure , the war has started. > > I've heard that in France , its forbidden to non MD's to penetrate the > skin > with needles. Is this true? What about then for making tattoo's on the > skin. > They also make use of superficial needles to penetrate the skin. > > Well i will keep you informed about the development of the proces in > Holland > > best wishes > > Rick > > > Alon Marcus <alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) net> > > Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:26:15 PM > Re: Re: Chinese Formula Data at: http://sx.hbttc. org/basic > > Phil > The links do not work > > > > > > > > www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com > - > > > Cc: EVHMA ; traditional_ Chinese_Medicine @. > com > > Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:37 AM > Re: Chinese Formula Data at: http://sx.hbttc. org/basic > > Hi Alon & All, > > > Phil What is this formula? Alon > > Alon, apologies, for not being more understandable in that mail. > > http://sx.hbttc. org/basic has summary data on the composition and uses of > > hundreds of formulas, under many classifications, as below. The data are > in > Chinese. This means that one would need to understand Chinese to use the > data effectively: > > The Classes of Formulas listed are: > > Anshen Ji | Calm Shen Formulas > Biao-Li Shuangjie | Exterior-Interior Dual Release Formulas > Buyi Ji | Tone & Benefit Formulas > Guse Ji | Consolidate & Astringe Formulas > Hejie Ji | Harmonise & Release Formulas > Jiebiao Ji | Release Exterior+Make Sweat Formulas > Kaiqiao Ji | Open Portals (Open Consciousness) Formulas > Liqi Ji | Rectify Qi Formulas > Lixue Ji | Rectify Xue Formulas > Qingre Ji | Clear Heat Formulas > Quchongji | Dispel/Expel Parasites (Parasitifuge) Formulas > Qushi Ji | Dispel Damp Formulas > Qushu Ji | Dispel Summerheat Formulas > Qutan Ji | Dispel Phlegm/Expectorant Formulas > Shachong Ji | Parasiticide Formulas > Shili Ji | Damp~Interior Formulas > Xiaodao Huaji Ji | Ease Indigestion (Disperse & Lead Out) Formulas > Xiexia Ji | Drain Down (Purgative) Formulas > Zhenduan Yongyao | Diagnosis & Application of Herbs > Zhifeng Ji | Govern (Cure / Stop) Wind Formulas > Zhike Pingchuan Ji | Stop Cough & Calm Asthma Formulas > Zhiyang Ji | Cure Sores Formulas > Zhizao Ji | Cure Dryness Formulas > > Go to http://sx.hbttc. org/basic and click on any icon in the centre of > the > page. For example, the Stop Cough & Ease Asthma Class of formulas lists > summary details of 73 different formulas: > > bai ke jing tangjiang > bai ling jiaonang > bu shen fang chuan pian > chuan shu pian > chuanbei pipa chongji(koufuye, tangjiang) > dansuan zhike pian > ding chuan gao > er tong ke ye > fengre kesou jiaonang(ruan jiaonang) > fufang baibu zhike chongji(tangjiang) > fufang chuanbei jing pian > gejie ding chuan jiaonang(wan) > gu ben ke chuan pian > gu shen ding chuan wan > gui long ke chuan ning jiaonang > hei xi dan > heng zhi ke chuan jiaonang > ji dan koufuye > ji zhi keli(tangjiang) > jian'er qingjie ye > jiang qi ding chuan wan > jiegeng dong huapian > jiere qing fei tangjiang > jin bei tan ke qing keli > jing zhi kesou tanchuan wan > ke chuan shun wan > ke ning chongji(tangjiang, jiaonang) > kugan chongji > li fei pian > ling bei zhike tangjiang > ling gui ke chuan ning jiaonang > liqi ding chuan wan > lu si ge wan > man zhi gu ben chongji > mangguo zhike pian > ning shu lu(tangjiang ji) > niuhuang qing fei san > pipa zhike chongji(jiaonang) > qianjin huatan wan > qiguanyan xiangjiao gao > qing an chuan ding pian > qingre zhen ke tangjiang > renshen bao fei wan > san hao shedan chuanbei pian > san shedan chuanbei tangjiang > shedan chuanbei pipagao > shen bei beigua gao > tian yi zhike tangjiang > tong xuan li fei jiaonang(koufuye, wan) > xiao ke chuan tangjiang(jiaonang) > xiao'er feire ke chuan keli > xiao'er feire ke chuan koufuye > xiao'er ma gan chongji > xiao'er qing fei koufuye(wan) > xiao'er qing fei san > xiao'er qing fei zhike pian > xiao'er qingre zhike koufuye > xiao'er xiao ji zhike koufuye > xiao'er zhi sou tangjiang > yi fei qinghua gao > Yin xing lu > zhen ke ning jiaonang(tangjiang, koufuye) > zhi chuan ling zhushe ye > zhi chuan lingqi wu ji(koufuye) > zhi ke bao pian > zhi ke wan > zhi sou qingguo heji(koufuye, wan) > zhike chuanbei pipalu > zhike juhong koufuye(wan, keli) > zhike ningsou jiao xiang > zhikepingchuan ji > zhikepingchuan tangjiang > zhubei ding chuan wan > > I wish that I were fluent in Chinese, or that top class machine > translations > > were available! > > Best regards, > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 Thanks, Rick. I'm very sorry this is happening. There've been discussions on here about acupuncturists and doctors. The concensus has been that when it comes to acupuncture the acupuncturists should take precedence over the doctors because the acupuncturists have far, far, far more training in acupunction than MDs and DOs typically have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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