Another theoretical question

[Guest guest]

I forgot - is phlegm/damp blocking of flow connected somehow to liver

qi stagnation - can the former lead to the latter somehow?

 

The text I have read talk about one following the other but because

of emotional upset rather than a pathalogical 'course'.

 

Thanks

 

Jackie

[Guest guest]

is phlegm/damp blocking of flow connected somehow to liver

> qi stagnation - can the former lead to the latter somehow?

> The text I have read talk about one following the other but because

> of emotional upset rather than a pathalogical 'course'.

 

phlegm/damp block

can lead to

-blood stagnation which leads to qi stagnation (if blood flows qi

flows and vice versa)

-yin deficiency

-phlegm heat

and more

 

qi stagnation can lead to

-heat development

which uses up yin fluids

which leads to forming of phlegm

which stagnates blood

which stagnates qi

 

clinical experience shows you

which was first,

which is sideFX of western drugs,

which is present at what percentage.

[Guest guest]

" The Treatise on the Spleen and Stomach " (one of the Chinese Classics)

discusses this in great detail and uses the concept of Yin Fire. Yin Fire is

different from deficient yin heat. This book is where the formula Bu Zhong Yi

Qi

Wan is developed and talks about all the modifications of this formula for

various pathologies. If you don't know herbs, you can look at www.bluepoppy.com

for Bob Flaws articles on yin fire. He has developed the concept of yin fire

for treating many of the problems people in this group are discussing. He talks

about the interrelation of spleen deficiency leading to dampness and phlegm,

combined with kidney deficiency and liver qi stagnation problems. He goes

into how you figure out treatments when you have root and symptomatic problems

to

treat simultaneously. (CFIDS, Cancer, Environmental Allergies, MS, HIV, etc.)

Shad Reinstein

[Guest guest]

> " The Treatise on the Spleen and Stomach " (one of the Chinese Classics)

> discusses this in great detail and uses the concept of Yin Fire. Yin Fire

is

> different from deficient yin heat. This book is where the formula Bu

Zhong Yi Qi

> Wan is developed and talks about all the modifications of this formula for

> various pathologies. If you don't know herbs, you can look at

www.bluepoppy.com

> for Bob Flaws articles on yin fire.

 

Thanks, I have read this before, and many others on that site, but a revisit

really helped, I forgot the difference between yin fire as Bob is definoing

it and yin vacuity.

 

At first the article says, as usual, if there are emotional problems against

a background of spleen weakeness and damp the liver may stagnate, but then

it goes on to give another mechanism - liver blood vacuity as a result of

spleen not moving blood because it is not moving qi. That makes sense.

 

We started over a year ago with a Bu Zhong Yi Qi Tang type approach with

myself and my horse, and it was a pretty spectacular failure in both cases.

 

I have pasted some extracts from the article following as it makes a good

reference, and the section on the 'Geordian knot' approach to treatment

makes a lot of sense. However, the article goes on to point out how the

balance of emphasis in such a complex formula must be correct for the

individual case, and this is where such an approach can fall down - it seems

sometimes even 20 yrs experience is not enough sometimes.

 

However, I had a conversation with a new herbalist now resident at my

chinese herb supplier, and I think we may have found the correct emphasis.

Sometimes, a 'peeling the onion' more western approach of trial and error is

the only way to understand the knot it seems, and then approach it

correctly.At any rate, this man is a past ME sufferer and although qualified

in TCM, I think may have a slightly different perspective on hypersensitive

cases.

 

Here's hoping anyway.

 

Jackie