dog food labels

May 6, 2004

I have two pups (a black lab and a golden retriever) that are 7 months old

and both eat their body weight in food each day!!!!

-

" pam " <peetee1965

Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:16 PM

Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

> I've never stopped to figure that out. I love my pooch dearly and I

> don't care about the cost. On the other hand she isn't quite five

> pounds so I spend far less than a big dog mom.

> Pam

>

> herbal remedies , " Candace Podratz "

> <CandaceAndBrock@w...> wrote:

> > WOW how much do you guys pay to feed your animals, $350/month?

> > : O

> > -

> > zeb@A...

> > herbal remedies

> > Wednesday, May 05, 2004 5:43 PM

> > Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

> >

> > Exactly. Something like a whole chicken through a grinder, some

> different grasses and herbs that dogs naturally eat in the wild.

> find the most common ones. Maybe some kind of catnip or whatever

> dogs use for dognip (ha ha ha). Sprout some brown rice as the

> filler if anything rather than wheat. Or better yet some wild rice

> which is actually in the grass family. Add fresh garlic cloves,

> carrots, some beets, spinach leaf maybe etc. Stuff like that. Then

> grind it all up. All Raw. Then dehydrate at or below 105 degrees.

> Add some of the UDO's Pet Oil. Throw in a tiny bit of rose hips.

> Something like that.

> >

> > Mix some eggs in as well and you have your thingy. For cats it

> has to be far more protein based. I think this would do it. You

> have two choices. Freeze it on packets so they can be thawed and

> mixed with a bit of hot water or dehydrate and vacuum seal.

> >

> > That's what I'm gonna try at least.

> >

> > Zeb

> > -

> > Sylvia

> > herbal remedies

> > Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:39 PM

> > Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

> >

> > So it would be dehydrated meat then LOL?????

> > (and maybe some vitamins tossed in)

> >

> > I have read much recently on dogs and cats being allergic to

> wheat,

> > so having a product that does not contain wheat might be good,

> > although perhaps sprouted wheat might work.

> >

> > The pet food we switched to has less grain in it and more meat

> and

> > bone meals. Last week there was much talk about raw meat and

> bones

> > and so something dehydrated with ground meat, bone and

> supplements

> > would be cool.

> >

> > I have found that my dog really enjoys veggies, and so we give

> them

> > to him often (both cooked and raw) Perhaps that could be added

> to the

> > mix. We had recently been discussing a mix we could make for

> our

> > puppy and dehyrating or baking, so i really like this idea

> >

> > Sylvia

> >

> > In herbal remedies , <zeb@A...> wrote:

> > > Pam,

> > >

> > > Thank you very much. I have been working with Doc in

> trying to

> > come up with a Raw dehydrated pet food that was ALL organic

> and only

> > what dogs need not what we " think " they need. If anyone has

> > suggestions or know of studies regarding dog and cat foods

> please let

> > me know.

> > >

> > > Love,,

> > > Zeb

> > > -

> > > pam

> > > herbal remedies

> > > Tuesday, May 04, 2004 12:10 AM

> > > Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

> > >

> > > http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?

> > cls=2 & cat=1661 & articleid=668

> > >

> > > Dog Food Labels

> > > Veterinary & Aquatic Services Department, Drs. Foster &

> Smith,

> > Inc.

> > >

> > > Q. What do dog food labels mean?

> > >

> > > A. Reading your pet food label is one of the best ways to

> > determine

> > > the quality of the food you are feeding. The ingredients

> and the

> > > guaranteed analysis (amounts of protein, fat,

> carbohydrates,

> > fiber,

> > > and other nutrients) are included on the food label. In

> addition

> > to

> > > providing information about the amount and quality of

> protein and

> > > fat, the label will also alert you of any unwanted

> preservatives

> > and

> > > give general feeding guidelines.

> > > A few other things to consider are the price. Calculate

> out the

> > > price per pound or the price per day. Almost always, dry

> food is

> > > more economical, and the larger the bag the lower the

> price per

> > > pound. Many times, a 40-pound bag is less than half as

> much per

> > > pound than an equivalent 5-pound bag. Remember that with

> lower

> > > quality foods you feed more and it may not always be

> cheaper. On

> > the

> > > other hand, some of the higher priced foods, especially

> foods

> > sold

> > > only through veterinarians, may not be as good as the less

> > expensive

> > > more easily obtainable food. Check the ingredients, they

> will

> > tell

> > > the real story. Most pets do not need specialty foods,

> just

> > quality

> > > food. By understanding this article and looking at a few

> pet food

> > > labels you will be able to find the best food for your pet.

> > >

> > > Converting dry matter basis

> > >

> > > This can be the hard part. All pet foods have different

> levels of

> > > moisture. Canned foods can have up to 80% moisture

> whereas, some

> > dry

> > > foods can have as little as 6%. This is important for 2

> reasons.

> > The

> > > first is that the food is priced by the pound, and when

> you buy

> > dog

> > > food that is 80% water you get 20% food and the rest is

> water. So

> > > the amount of food your pet consumes is small and

> expensive. The

> > > other reason for understanding percent moisture is to help

> you

> > > compare crude protein and fat between brands and between

> canned

> > and

> > > dry. The listings on the label are for the food as it is,

> not as

> > it

> > > would be on a dry matter basis. So without converting both

> brands

> > of

> > > food to a dry matter basis you will not be able to compare

> them

> > > accurately. Fortunately, the conversion is not that

> complicated.

> > >

> > > If a dry dog food has 10% moisture we know that it has 90%

> dry

> > > matter. So we look at the label and check the protein

> level that

> > > reads 20%. Next, we divide the 20 percent protein by the

> 90% dry

> > > matter and we get 22%, which is the amount of protein on a

> dry

> > > matter basis. Does this make sense so far? Good. Now let

> us

> > compare

> > > this to canned food that has 80% moisture. We know that

> with 80%

> > > moisture we have 20% dry matter. The label shows 5%

> protein. So

> > we

> > > take the 5% and divide it by 20% and we get 25% protein on

> a dry

> > > matter basis. So the canned food has more protein per

> pound on a

> > dry

> > > matter basis after all the water is taken out. We can do

> the same

> > > for fat, fiber, etc.

> > >

> > > Guaranteed analysis

> > >

> > > The guaranteed analysis on the information panel of the

> dog food

> > > label lists the minimum levels of crude protein and fat

> and the

> > > maximum levels of fiber and water. The protein and fat are

> listed

> > as

> > > crude sources and not as digestible sources. The

> digestibility of

> > > protein and fat can vary widely depending on their

> sources. The

> > list

> > > of ingredients should be examined closely to determine how

> > > digestible the sources are (see articles on protein and

> fat for

> > more

> > > explanation). The other factor in determining actual

> protein and

> > fat

> > > percentages is the amount of moisture present in the food

> as

> > > discussed earlier. While the guaranteed analysis is a

> start in

> > > understanding the quality of the food, be very careful

> about

> > relying

> > > on it too much. A pet food manufacturer made a mock

> product that

> > had

> > > a guaranteed analysis of 10% protein, 6.5% fat, 2.4%

> fiber, and

> > 68%

> > > moisture, similar to what you see on many canned pet food

> labels.

> > > The only problem, was that the ingredients were old

> leather work

> > > boots, used motor oil, crushed coal, and water!

> > >

> > > Ingredient list

> > >

> > > All pet foods must list the ingredients present in the

> food. The

> > > ingredients must be listed in order of weight. This is one

> of the

> > > best ways to determine the quality of the food. With a

> little

> > > knowledge of the ingredients, you can choose a food that

> is

> > highly

> > > digestible and free of unwanted products. Be careful of

> one

> > tactic

> > > used by manufacturers to disguise less desirable

> ingredients.

> > > Breaking an ingredient into several different smaller

> ingredients

> > > and listing them individually is used to lower these

> undesirable

> > > ingredients farther down the ingredient list. For example,

> a

> > product

> > > list could contain chicken, ground corn, corn gluten,

> ground

> > wheat,

> > > corn bran, wheat flour, wheat middling, etc. If we were to

> group

> > all

> > > of the corn ingredients as one, they would probably far

> out-weigh

> > > the amount of chicken, and wheat. As a consumer, you must

> read

> > all

> > > of the ingredients carefully including the ingredients at

> the

> > end,

> > > to know the type of preservatives and colorings that are

> used. I

> > > have listed a few of the more common ingredients and their

> > > definitions.

> > >

> > > Meat: Meat is the clean flesh of slaughtered animals

> (chicken,

> > > cattle, lamb, turkey, etc.). The flesh can include

> striated

> > skeletal

> > > muscle, tongue, diaphragm, heart, esophagus, overlying fat

> and

> > the

> > > skin, sinew, nerves and blood vessels normally found with

> that

> > flesh.

> > >

> > > Meat By-products: Meat by-products are clean parts of

> slaughtered

> > > animals, not including meat. These include lungs, spleen,

> > kidneys,

> > > brain, liver, blood, bone, and stomach and intestines

> freed of

> > their

> > > contents. It does not include hair, horns, teeth, or

> hooves.

> > >

> > > Poultry By-products: Poultry by-products are clean parts

> of

> > > slaughtered poultry such as heads, feet, and internal

> organs

> > (like

> > > heart, lungs, liver, kidneys, abdomen, and intestines). It

> does

> > not

> > > contain feathers.

> > >

> > > Fish Meal: Fish meal is the clean ground tissue of

> undecomposed

> > > whole fish or fish cuttings, with or without the oil

> extracted.

> > >

> > > Beef Tallow: Beef tallow is fat derived from beef.

> > >

> > > Ground Corn: Ground corn is the entire corn kernel ground

> or

> > chopped.

> > >

> > > Corn Gluten Meal: Corn gluten meal is the by-product after

> the

> > > manufacture of corn syrup or starch, and is the dried

> residue

> > after

> > > the removal of the bran, germ, and starch.

> > >

> > > Brewers Rice: Brewers rice is the small fragments of rice

> kernels

> > > that have been separated from larger kernels of milled

> rice.

> > >

> > > Brown Rice: Brown rice is the unpolished rice left over

> after the

> > > kernels have been removed.

> > >

> > > Soybean Meal: Soybean meal is a by-product of the

> production of

> > > soybean oil.

> > >

> > > BHA: BHA is butylated hydroxyanisole, a fat preservative.

> > >

> > > Ethoxyquin: Ethoxyquin is a chemical preservative that is

> used to

> > > prevent spoilage in dog food.

> > >

> > > Tocopherols: Tocopherols (e.g., vitamin E) are naturally

> > occurring

> > > compounds used as natural preservatives.

> > >

> > > The AAFCO standards

> > >

> > > 'AAFCO' stands for the Association of American Feed

> Control

> > > Officials. The AAFCO develops guidelines for the

> production,

> > > labeling, and sale of animal foods. These are called the

> AAFCO

> > > standards. AAFCO has developed two standards which pet

> foods

> > should

> > > meet. Pet foods which meet the AAFCO's requirements will

> include

> > one

> > > of two statements on their label.

> > >

> > > The first and lower standard states 'formulated to meet

> AAFCO's

> > > nutrient requirement.' This means the food was tested in

> the

> > > laboratory and was found to have the recommended amounts

> of

> > protein,

> > > fat, etc. But as mentioned above, the combination of shoe

> > leather,

> > > used motor oil, and coal would meet this standard.

> > >

> > > The second standard states something like 'animal-feeding

> tests

> > > using AAFCO's procedures substantiate that this product

> provides

> > > complete and balanced nutrition.' For a pet food to be

> able to

> > carry

> > > this label, it had to be tested on a population of animals

> for

> > six

> > > months and shown to provide adequate nutrition. But even

> with

> > this

> > > statement, there are problems with its interpretation. If

> one

> > > particular product in a manufacturer's line was tested and

> found

> > to

> > > meet this standard, the company is allowed to include this

> same

> > > statement on other products in the same 'family' which

> provide

> > equal

> > > or greater concentrations of all the nutrients. So even if

> the

> > pet

> > > food carries this AAFCO food trial statement on its label,

> you

> > can

> > > not be sure that specific product was actually tested in a

> food

> > > trial. In addition, testing a food for six months is not

> an

> > adequate

> > > amount of time to determine if deficiencies or other long

> term

> > > effects may occur after feeding the product a year or

> more.

> > Despite

> > > these problems with the interpretation of this AAFCO food

> trial

> > > statement, having the statement on a pet food label at

> least

> > shows

> > > the company has made some attempt to develop a good food.

> > >

> > > Feeding instructions

> > >

> > > Feeding instructions or guidelines are included on most

> every bag

> > > and most cans of pet foods. These guidelines give the

> recommended

> > > amount to be fed based on growth level and weight. I would

> remind

> > > owners that these are very rough guidelines. Every animal

> has a

> > > different level of activity, metabolism, and ambient

> > environmental

> > > temperature. In addition, breed, age, and other

> environmental

> > > stresses all impact daily requirements. I encourage you to

> use

> > these

> > > guidelines as rough starting points. If your animal is

> thin or

> > > hungry, feed it more often and in greater quantity. If

> your pet

> > is

> > > obese, feed it less. I cannot begin to count the number of

> > clients

> > > that have complained of a hungry, thin, or obese dog and

> after

> > being

> > > questioned about it found that they were feeding the

> recommended

> > > amount on the bag and were afraid to deviate from it. This

> is an

> > > area where common sense is much more important than

> science.

> > >

> > > Summary

> > >

> > > One of the most common questions that I get is what is the

> best

> > pet

> > > food on the market? I can honestly say that there is not

> one. The

> > > very fact that there are so many types and brands on the

> market

> > > shows that there are hundreds of options and opinions.

> Some dogs

> > > need higher fat and protein than others. Feed what is

> appropriate

> > > for your pet: puppies need puppy food and cats need cat

> food. Do

> > not

> > > switch brands every month, but do not be afraid to switch

> brands

> > and

> > > find one that your pet does well on. I have seen medical

> problems

> > > from dogs fed the cheaper generic foods, and some farm

> store and

> > > department store brands. If you are feeding a pet food

> that can

> > only

> > > be purchased from a veterinarian, read the label closely

> and then

> > > compare it to some of the premium brands on the market.

> Then

> > check

> > > the price. You may be in for a big surprise! You do not

> always

> > get

> > > what you pay for.

> > >

> > > The other question I get is, 'what do I feed my pets?' I

> can tell

> > > you that I feed my dog a premium national brand that is

> chicken

> > and

> > > rice and sells for around 73 cents a pound. I feed my cats

> a

> > premium

> > > brand that is formulated to help reduce cystitis and

> urinary

> > > problems, which sells for twice of what my dog food costs,

> but my

> > > cats eat very little and do great on it. I always feed dry

> food

> > and

> > > free choice. Feeding table scraps and treats have to be

> > considered

> > > in the overall diet and are discussed more thoroughly in

> their

> > > separate articles.

> > >

> > > References and Further Reading

> > >

> > > Palika, L. The Consumer's Guide To Dog Food. Howell Book

> House of

> > > Simon & Schuster/Macmillan Company. New York, NY; 1996.

> > >

> > > Ralston Purina Company. Nutrition and Management of Dogs

> and

> > Cats.

> > > St. Louis, MO; 1987.

> > >

> > > Pam

> > >

> > > Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following:

> > > 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.

> > > 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before

> using any

> > natural remedy.

> > > 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your

> own

> > physician and to

> > > prescribe for your own health.

> > > We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to

> post here

> > as long as

> > > they behave themselves.

> > > Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly

> that, and

> > any person

> > > following the advice of anyone posting here does so at

> their own

> > risk.

> > > It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice

> or

> > products from list members, you are agreeing to

> > > be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the

> List Owner

> > and members free of any liability.

> > >

> > > Dr. Ian Shillington

> > > Doctor of Naturopathy

> > > Dr.IanShillington@G...

> > >

May 6, 2004

Wow, are you serious ?

That's toooooo much.

Pam

---------------http://www.raw-

dogs.com/content.html

http://home.att.net/~wdcusick/main.html

excellent pet food sight

-

FEEDING DIRECTIONS: A 20 POUND DOG will eat approximately 15oz. per

day. You may increase the quantity fed to larger dogs by an

additional 15oz. per day for every 25 pounds of body weight.

Your dog has individual nutritional needs, depending upon their

current health, sex, age, activity levels and climate. Feed at room

temperature and always provide fresh, clean water for your dogs.

PREGNANT & NURSING DOGS: Feed 2-4 times the adult requirement per

day.

-------------------------------

Daily Caloric Requirements for Adult Dogs

These figures are calculated for an average, moderately active adult

dog that lives in a thermoneutral environment. Less active dogs

require considerably fewer calories. Extremes in temperature,

illness, or physical activity (such as racing or hunting) can

increase the daily caloric need by 300 percent or more.

lb kcal lb kcal lb kcal

5 231 60 1489 115 2426

10 389 65 1581 120 2504

15 526 70 1672 125 2582

20 653 75 1760 130 2660

25 772 80 1848 135 2736

30 886 85 1934 140 2811

35 994 90 2019 145 2887

40 1009 95 2102 150 2961

45 1200 100 2184 155 3034

50 1299 105 2266 160 3108

55 1395 110 2346 165 3180

Source: Data calculated from Waltham Centre for Pet Nutrition (WCPN)

recommendations

================================

Protein Needs Of The Aging Dog

Dog owners sometimes ask at just what age a dog is considered old.

Aging is very individual and depends on breed, genetics, individual

metabolism, care and nutrition. However, seven years is widely used

to define the older dog. Perhaps this is because age-related

diseases begin to appear and metabolic changes associated with aging

become evident around this age. Protein is used by the body to

support many functions including a strong immune system as well as

strong muscles and healthy skin.

The need for more protein in an older dog's diet contradicts a

belief held by some dog owners that older dogs should be fed less

protein than younger dogs. Perhaps this belief resulted from the

association of protein with kidney failure. Once kidney failure is

in advanced stages, protein restriction is recommended to help

alleviate some of the problems associated with this condition.

The truth is, research from several leading veterinary hospitals

shows there is no evidence to indicate that protein at an

appropriate level for a nutritionally complete and balanced diet

causes kidney damage in dogs.

Research indicating that older animals have increased protein needs

has been going on since the 1950s. One study in the 1960s showed

healthy geriatric dogs needed about 50 percent more protein than

young adult dogs in order to maintain protein reserves. These

reserves are needed to support the immune system, especially during

times of stress. Significant research during the 1980s and 1990s

focused on defining maximum safe levels of protein for older dogs.

One of the changes that occurs, but is not readily apparent, is that

older dogs can become less efficient in metabolizing protein than

young dogs. Consequently, older dogs require more protein than young

adult dogs.

herbal remedies , " Candace Podratz "

<CandaceAndBrock@w...> wrote:

> I have two pups (a black lab and a golden retriever) that are 7

months old

> and both eat their body weight in food each day!!!!

>

> -

> " pam " <peetee1965@h...>

> <herbal remedies >

> Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:16 PM

> Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

>

> > I've never stopped to figure that out. I love my pooch dearly

and I

> > don't care about the cost. On the other hand she isn't quite

five

> > pounds so I spend far less than a big dog mom.

> > Pam

> >

> > herbal remedies , " Candace Podratz "

> > <CandaceAndBrock@w...> wrote:

> > > WOW how much do you guys pay to feed your animals, $350/month?

> > > : O

> > > -

> > > zeb@A...

> > > herbal remedies

> > > Wednesday, May 05, 2004 5:43 PM

> > > Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

> > >

> > > Exactly. Something like a whole chicken through a grinder,

some

> > different grasses and herbs that dogs naturally eat in the wild.

> > find the most common ones. Maybe some kind of catnip or whatever

> > dogs use for dognip (ha ha ha). Sprout some brown rice as the

> > filler if anything rather than wheat. Or better yet some wild

rice

> > which is actually in the grass family. Add fresh garlic cloves,

> > carrots, some beets, spinach leaf maybe etc. Stuff like that.

Then

> > grind it all up. All Raw. Then dehydrate at or below 105

degrees.

> > Add some of the UDO's Pet Oil. Throw in a tiny bit of rose hips.

> > Something like that.

> > >

> > > Mix some eggs in as well and you have your thingy. For cats

it

> > has to be far more protein based. I think this would do it. You

> > have two choices. Freeze it on packets so they can be thawed and

> > mixed with a bit of hot water or dehydrate and vacuum seal.

> > >

> > > That's what I'm gonna try at least.

> > >

> > > Zeb

> > > -

> > > Sylvia

> > > herbal remedies

> > > Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:39 PM

> > > Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

> > >

> > > So it would be dehydrated meat then LOL?????

> > > (and maybe some vitamins tossed in)

> > >

> > > I have read much recently on dogs and cats being allergic

to

> > wheat,

> > > so having a product that does not contain wheat might be

good,

> > > although perhaps sprouted wheat might work.

> > >

> > > The pet food we switched to has less grain in it and more

meat

> > and

> > > bone meals. Last week there was much talk about raw meat

and

> > bones

> > > and so something dehydrated with ground meat, bone and

> > supplements

> > > would be cool.

> > >

> > > I have found that my dog really enjoys veggies, and so we

give

> > them

> > > to him often (both cooked and raw) Perhaps that could be

added

> > to the

> > > mix. We had recently been discussing a mix we could make

for

> > our

> > > puppy and dehyrating or baking, so i really like this idea

> > >

> > > Sylvia

> > >

> > > In herbal remedies , <zeb@A...> wrote:

> > > > Pam,

> > > >

> > > > Thank you very much. I have been working with Doc in

> > trying to

> > > come up with a Raw dehydrated pet food that was ALL organic

> > and only

> > > what dogs need not what we " think " they need. If anyone

has

> > > suggestions or know of studies regarding dog and cat foods

> > please let

> > > me know.

> > > >

> > > > Love,,

> > > > Zeb

> > > > -

> > > > pam

> > > > herbal remedies

> > > > Tuesday, May 04, 2004 12:10 AM

> > > > Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

> > > >

> > > > http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?

> > > cls=2 & cat=1661 & articleid=668

> > > >

> > > > Dog Food Labels

> > > > Veterinary & Aquatic Services Department, Drs. Foster &

> > Smith,

> > > Inc.

> > > >

> > > > Q. What do dog food labels mean?

> > > >

> > > > A. Reading your pet food label is one of the best ways

to

> > > determine

> > > > the quality of the food you are feeding. The

ingredients

> > and the

> > > > guaranteed analysis (amounts of protein, fat,

> > carbohydrates,

> > > fiber,

> > > > and other nutrients) are included on the food label. In

> > addition

> > > to

> > > > providing information about the amount and quality of

> > protein and

> > > > fat, the label will also alert you of any unwanted

> > preservatives

> > > and

> > > > give general feeding guidelines.

> > > > A few other things to consider are the price. Calculate

> > out the

> > > > price per pound or the price per day. Almost always,

dry

> > food is

> > > > more economical, and the larger the bag the lower the

> > price per

> > > > pound. Many times, a 40-pound bag is less than half as

> > much per

> > > > pound than an equivalent 5-pound bag. Remember that

with

> > lower

> > > > quality foods you feed more and it may not always be

> > cheaper. On

> > > the

> > > > other hand, some of the higher priced foods, especially

> > foods

> > > sold

> > > > only through veterinarians, may not be as good as the

less

> > > expensive

> > > > more easily obtainable food. Check the ingredients,

they

> > will

> > > tell

> > > > the real story. Most pets do not need specialty foods,

> > just

> > > quality

> > > > food. By understanding this article and looking at a

few

> > pet food

> > > > labels you will be able to find the best food for your

pet.

> > > >

> > > > Converting dry matter basis

> > > >

> > > > This can be the hard part. All pet foods have different

> > levels of

> > > > moisture. Canned foods can have up to 80% moisture

> > whereas, some

> > > dry

> > > > foods can have as little as 6%. This is important for 2

> > reasons.

> > > The

> > > > first is that the food is priced by the pound, and when

> > you buy

> > > dog

> > > > food that is 80% water you get 20% food and the rest is

> > water. So

> > > > the amount of food your pet consumes is small and

> > expensive. The

> > > > other reason for understanding percent moisture is to

help

> > you

> > > > compare crude protein and fat between brands and

between

> > canned

> > > and

> > > > dry. The listings on the label are for the food as it

is,

> > not as

> > > it

> > > > would be on a dry matter basis. So without converting

both

> > brands

> > > of

> > > > food to a dry matter basis you will not be able to

compare

> > them

> > > > accurately. Fortunately, the conversion is not that

> > complicated.

> > > >

> > > > If a dry dog food has 10% moisture we know that it has

90%

> > dry

> > > > matter. So we look at the label and check the protein

> > level that

> > > > reads 20%. Next, we divide the 20 percent protein by

the

> > 90% dry

> > > > matter and we get 22%, which is the amount of protein

on a

> > dry

> > > > matter basis. Does this make sense so far? Good. Now

let

> > us

> > > compare

> > > > this to canned food that has 80% moisture. We know that

> > with 80%

> > > > moisture we have 20% dry matter. The label shows 5%

> > protein. So

> > > we

> > > > take the 5% and divide it by 20% and we get 25%

protein on

> > a dry

> > > > matter basis. So the canned food has more protein per

> > pound on a

> > > dry

> > > > matter basis after all the water is taken out. We can

do

> > the same

> > > > for fat, fiber, etc.

> > > >

> > > > Guaranteed analysis

> > > >

> > > > The guaranteed analysis on the information panel of the

> > dog food

> > > > label lists the minimum levels of crude protein and fat

> > and the

> > > > maximum levels of fiber and water. The protein and fat

are

> > listed

> > > as

> > > > crude sources and not as digestible sources. The

> > digestibility of

> > > > protein and fat can vary widely depending on their

> > sources. The

> > > list

> > > > of ingredients should be examined closely to determine

how

> > > > digestible the sources are (see articles on protein and

> > fat for

> > > more

> > > > explanation). The other factor in determining actual

> > protein and

> > > fat

> > > > percentages is the amount of moisture present in the

food

> > as

> > > > discussed earlier. While the guaranteed analysis is a

> > start in

> > > > understanding the quality of the food, be very careful

> > about

> > > relying

> > > > on it too much. A pet food manufacturer made a mock

> > product that

> > > had

> > > > a guaranteed analysis of 10% protein, 6.5% fat, 2.4%

> > fiber, and

> > > 68%

> > > > moisture, similar to what you see on many canned pet

food

> > labels.

> > > > The only problem, was that the ingredients were old

> > leather work

> > > > boots, used motor oil, crushed coal, and water!

> > > >

> > > > Ingredient list

> > > >

> > > > All pet foods must list the ingredients present in the

> > food. The

> > > > ingredients must be listed in order of weight. This is

one

> > of the

> > > > best ways to determine the quality of the food. With a

> > little

> > > > knowledge of the ingredients, you can choose a food

that

> > is

> > > highly

> > > > digestible and free of unwanted products. Be careful of

> > one

> > > tactic

> > > > used by manufacturers to disguise less desirable

> > ingredients.

> > > > Breaking an ingredient into several different smaller

> > ingredients

> > > > and listing them individually is used to lower these

> > undesirable

> > > > ingredients farther down the ingredient list. For

example,

> > a

> > > product

> > > > list could contain chicken, ground corn, corn gluten,

> > ground

> > > wheat,

> > > > corn bran, wheat flour, wheat middling, etc. If we

were to

> > group

> > > all

> > > > of the corn ingredients as one, they would probably far

> > out-weigh

> > > > the amount of chicken, and wheat. As a consumer, you

must

> > read

> > > all

> > > > of the ingredients carefully including the ingredients

at

> > the

> > > end,

> > > > to know the type of preservatives and colorings that

are

> > used. I

> > > > have listed a few of the more common ingredients and

their

> > > > definitions.

> > > >

> > > > Meat: Meat is the clean flesh of slaughtered animals

> > (chicken,

> > > > cattle, lamb, turkey, etc.). The flesh can include

> > striated

> > > skeletal

> > > > muscle, tongue, diaphragm, heart, esophagus, overlying

fat

> > and

> > > the

> > > > skin, sinew, nerves and blood vessels normally found

with

> > that

> > > flesh.

> > > >

> > > > Meat By-products: Meat by-products are clean parts of

> > slaughtered

> > > > animals, not including meat. These include lungs,

spleen,

> > > kidneys,

> > > > brain, liver, blood, bone, and stomach and intestines

> > freed of

> > > their

> > > > contents. It does not include hair, horns, teeth, or

> > hooves.

> > > >

> > > > Poultry By-products: Poultry by-products are clean

parts

> > of

> > > > slaughtered poultry such as heads, feet, and internal

> > organs

> > > (like

> > > > heart, lungs, liver, kidneys, abdomen, and

intestines). It

> > does

> > > not

> > > > contain feathers.

> > > >

> > > > Fish Meal: Fish meal is the clean ground tissue of

> > undecomposed

> > > > whole fish or fish cuttings, with or without the oil

> > extracted.

> > > >

> > > > Beef Tallow: Beef tallow is fat derived from beef.

> > > >

> > > > Ground Corn: Ground corn is the entire corn kernel

ground

> > or

> > > chopped.

> > > >

> > > > Corn Gluten Meal: Corn gluten meal is the by-product

after

> > the

> > > > manufacture of corn syrup or starch, and is the dried

> > residue

> > > after

> > > > the removal of the bran, germ, and starch.

> > > >

> > > > Brewers Rice: Brewers rice is the small fragments of

rice

> > kernels

> > > > that have been separated from larger kernels of milled

> > rice.

> > > >

> > > > Brown Rice: Brown rice is the unpolished rice left over

> > after the

> > > > kernels have been removed.

> > > >

> > > > Soybean Meal: Soybean meal is a by-product of the

> > production of

> > > > soybean oil.

> > > >

> > > > BHA: BHA is butylated hydroxyanisole, a fat

preservative.

> > > >

> > > > Ethoxyquin: Ethoxyquin is a chemical preservative that

is

> > used to

> > > > prevent spoilage in dog food.

> > > >

> > > > Tocopherols: Tocopherols (e.g., vitamin E) are

naturally

> > > occurring

> > > > compounds used as natural preservatives.

> > > >

> > > > The AAFCO standards

> > > >

> > > > 'AAFCO' stands for the Association of American Feed

> > Control

> > > > Officials. The AAFCO develops guidelines for the

> > production,

> > > > labeling, and sale of animal foods. These are called

the

> > AAFCO

> > > > standards. AAFCO has developed two standards which pet

> > foods

> > > should

> > > > meet. Pet foods which meet the AAFCO's requirements

will

> > include

> > > one

> > > > of two statements on their label.

> > > >

> > > > The first and lower standard states 'formulated to meet

> > AAFCO's

> > > > nutrient requirement.' This means the food was tested

in

> > the

> > > > laboratory and was found to have the recommended

amounts

> > of

> > > protein,

> > > > fat, etc. But as mentioned above, the combination of

shoe

> > > leather,

> > > > used motor oil, and coal would meet this standard.

> > > >

> > > > The second standard states something like 'animal-

feeding

> > tests

> > > > using AAFCO's procedures substantiate that this product

> > provides

> > > > complete and balanced nutrition.' For a pet food to be

> > able to

> > > carry

> > > > this label, it had to be tested on a population of

animals

> > for

> > > six

> > > > months and shown to provide adequate nutrition. But

even

> > with

> > > this

> > > > statement, there are problems with its interpretation.

If

> > one

> > > > particular product in a manufacturer's line was tested

and

> > found

> > > to

> > > > meet this standard, the company is allowed to include

this

> > same

> > > > statement on other products in the same 'family' which

> > provide

> > > equal

> > > > or greater concentrations of all the nutrients. So

even if

> > the

> > > pet

> > > > food carries this AAFCO food trial statement on its

label,

> > you

> > > can

> > > > not be sure that specific product was actually tested

in a

> > food

> > > > trial. In addition, testing a food for six months is

not

> > an

> > > adequate

> > > > amount of time to determine if deficiencies or other

long

> > term

> > > > effects may occur after feeding the product a year or

> > more.

> > > Despite

> > > > these problems with the interpretation of this AAFCO

food

> > trial

> > > > statement, having the statement on a pet food label at

> > least

> > > shows

> > > > the company has made some attempt to develop a good

food.

> > > >

> > > > Feeding instructions

> > > >

> > > > Feeding instructions or guidelines are included on most

> > every bag

> > > > and most cans of pet foods. These guidelines give the

> > recommended

> > > > amount to be fed based on growth level and weight. I

would

> > remind

> > > > owners that these are very rough guidelines. Every

animal

> > has a

> > > > different level of activity, metabolism, and ambient

> > > environmental

> > > > temperature. In addition, breed, age, and other

> > environmental

> > > > stresses all impact daily requirements. I encourage

you to

> > use

> > > these

> > > > guidelines as rough starting points. If your animal is

> > thin or

> > > > hungry, feed it more often and in greater quantity. If

> > your pet

> > > is

> > > > obese, feed it less. I cannot begin to count the

number of

> > > clients

> > > > that have complained of a hungry, thin, or obese dog

and

> > after

> > > being

> > > > questioned about it found that they were feeding the

> > recommended

> > > > amount on the bag and were afraid to deviate from it.

This

> > is an

> > > > area where common sense is much more important than

> > science.

> > > >

> > > > Summary

> > > >

> > > > One of the most common questions that I get is what is

the

> > best

> > > pet

> > > > food on the market? I can honestly say that there is

not

> > one. The

> > > > very fact that there are so many types and brands on

the

> > market

> > > > shows that there are hundreds of options and opinions.

> > Some dogs

> > > > need higher fat and protein than others. Feed what is

> > appropriate

> > > > for your pet: puppies need puppy food and cats need cat

> > food. Do

> > > not

> > > > switch brands every month, but do not be afraid to

switch

> > brands

> > > and

> > > > find one that your pet does well on. I have seen

medical

> > problems

> > > > from dogs fed the cheaper generic foods, and some farm

> > store and

> > > > department store brands. If you are feeding a pet food

> > that can

> > > only

> > > > be purchased from a veterinarian, read the label

closely

> > and then

> > > > compare it to some of the premium brands on the market.

> > Then

> > > check

> > > > the price. You may be in for a big surprise! You do not

> > always

> > > get

> > > > what you pay for.

> > > >

> > > > The other question I get is, 'what do I feed my pets?'

I

> > can tell

> > > > you that I feed my dog a premium national brand that is

> > chicken

> > > and

> > > > rice and sells for around 73 cents a pound. I feed my

cats

> > a

> > > premium

> > > > brand that is formulated to help reduce cystitis and

> > urinary

> > > > problems, which sells for twice of what my dog food

costs,

> > but my

> > > > cats eat very little and do great on it. I always feed

dry

> > food

> > > and

> > > > free choice. Feeding table scraps and treats have to be

> > > considered

> > > > in the overall diet and are discussed more thoroughly

in

> > their

> > > > separate articles.

> > > >

> > > > References and Further Reading

> > > >

> > > > Palika, L. The Consumer's Guide To Dog Food. Howell

Book

> > House of

> > > > Simon & Schuster/Macmillan Company. New York, NY; 1996.

> > > >

> > > > Ralston Purina Company. Nutrition and Management of

Dogs

> > and

> > > Cats.

> > > > St. Louis, MO; 1987.

> > > >

> > > > Pam

> > > >

> > > > Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following:

> > > > 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.

> > > > 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before

> > using any

> > > natural remedy.

> > > > 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your

> > own

> > > physician and to

> > > > prescribe for your own health.

> > > > We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to

> > post here

> > > as long as

> > > > they behave themselves.

> > > > Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly

> > that, and

> > > any person

> > > > following the advice of anyone posting here does so at

> > their own

> > > risk.

> > > > It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting

advice

> > or

> > > products from list members, you are agreeing to

> > > > be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the

> > List Owner

> > > and members free of any liability.

> > > >

> > > > Dr. Ian Shillington

> > > > Doctor of Naturopathy

> > > > Dr.IanShillington@G...

> > > >

May 6, 2004

I'm exagerating, but it seems like they're always eating!

-

" pam " <peetee1965

Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:33 PM

Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

> Wow, are you serious ?

> That's toooooo much.

> Pam

>

> ---------------http://www.raw-

> dogs.com/content.html

> http://home.att.net/~wdcusick/main.html

> excellent pet food sight

> -

>

> FEEDING DIRECTIONS: A 20 POUND DOG will eat approximately 15oz. per

> day. You may increase the quantity fed to larger dogs by an

> additional 15oz. per day for every 25 pounds of body weight.

> Your dog has individual nutritional needs, depending upon their

> current health, sex, age, activity levels and climate. Feed at room

> temperature and always provide fresh, clean water for your dogs.

> PREGNANT & NURSING DOGS: Feed 2-4 times the adult requirement per

> day.

>

> -------------------------------

Daily Caloric Requirements for Adult Dogs

> These figures are calculated for an average, moderately active adult

> dog that lives in a thermoneutral environment. Less active dogs

> require considerably fewer calories. Extremes in temperature,

> illness, or physical activity (such as racing or hunting) can

> increase the daily caloric need by 300 percent or more.

>

> lb kcal lb kcal lb kcal

>

> 5 231 60 1489 115 2426

> 10 389 65 1581 120 2504

> 15 526 70 1672 125 2582

> 20 653 75 1760 130 2660

> 25 772 80 1848 135 2736

> 30 886 85 1934 140 2811

> 35 994 90 2019 145 2887

> 40 1009 95 2102 150 2961

> 45 1200 100 2184 155 3034

> 50 1299 105 2266 160 3108

> 55 1395 110 2346 165 3180

>

> Source: Data calculated from Waltham Centre for Pet Nutrition (WCPN)

> recommendations

>

> ================================

>

> Protein Needs Of The Aging Dog

>

> Dog owners sometimes ask at just what age a dog is considered old.

> Aging is very individual and depends on breed, genetics, individual

> metabolism, care and nutrition. However, seven years is widely used

> to define the older dog. Perhaps this is because age-related

> diseases begin to appear and metabolic changes associated with aging

> become evident around this age. Protein is used by the body to

> support many functions including a strong immune system as well as

> strong muscles and healthy skin.

>

> The need for more protein in an older dog's diet contradicts a

> belief held by some dog owners that older dogs should be fed less

> protein than younger dogs. Perhaps this belief resulted from the

> association of protein with kidney failure. Once kidney failure is

> in advanced stages, protein restriction is recommended to help

> alleviate some of the problems associated with this condition.

>

> The truth is, research from several leading veterinary hospitals

> shows there is no evidence to indicate that protein at an

> appropriate level for a nutritionally complete and balanced diet

> causes kidney damage in dogs.

>

> Research indicating that older animals have increased protein needs

> has been going on since the 1950s. One study in the 1960s showed

> healthy geriatric dogs needed about 50 percent more protein than

> young adult dogs in order to maintain protein reserves. These

> reserves are needed to support the immune system, especially during

> times of stress. Significant research during the 1980s and 1990s

> focused on defining maximum safe levels of protein for older dogs.

>

> One of the changes that occurs, but is not readily apparent, is that

> older dogs can become less efficient in metabolizing protein than

> young dogs. Consequently, older dogs require more protein than young

> adult dogs.

>

> herbal remedies , " Candace Podratz "

> <CandaceAndBrock@w...> wrote:

> > I have two pups (a black lab and a golden retriever) that are 7

> months old

> > and both eat their body weight in food each day!!!!

> >

> > -

> > " pam " <peetee1965@h...>

> > <herbal remedies >

> > Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:16 PM

> > Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

> >

> > > I've never stopped to figure that out. I love my pooch dearly

> and I

> > > don't care about the cost. On the other hand she isn't quite

> five

> > > pounds so I spend far less than a big dog mom.

> > > Pam

> > >

> > > herbal remedies , " Candace Podratz "

> > > <CandaceAndBrock@w...> wrote:

> > > > WOW how much do you guys pay to feed your animals, $350/month?

> > > > : O

> > > > -

> > > > zeb@A...

> > > > herbal remedies

> > > > Wednesday, May 05, 2004 5:43 PM

> > > > Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

> > > >

> > > > Exactly. Something like a whole chicken through a grinder,

> some

> > > different grasses and herbs that dogs naturally eat in the wild.

> > > find the most common ones. Maybe some kind of catnip or whatever

> > > dogs use for dognip (ha ha ha). Sprout some brown rice as the

> > > filler if anything rather than wheat. Or better yet some wild

> rice

> > > which is actually in the grass family. Add fresh garlic cloves,

> > > carrots, some beets, spinach leaf maybe etc. Stuff like that.

> Then

> > > grind it all up. All Raw. Then dehydrate at or below 105

> degrees.

> > > Add some of the UDO's Pet Oil. Throw in a tiny bit of rose hips.

> > > Something like that.

> > > >

> > > > Mix some eggs in as well and you have your thingy. For cats

> it

> > > has to be far more protein based. I think this would do it. You

> > > have two choices. Freeze it on packets so they can be thawed and

> > > mixed with a bit of hot water or dehydrate and vacuum seal.

> > > >

> > > > That's what I'm gonna try at least.

> > > >

> > > > Zeb

> > > > -

> > > > Sylvia

> > > > herbal remedies

> > > > Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:39 PM

> > > > Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

> > > >

> > > > So it would be dehydrated meat then LOL?????

> > > > (and maybe some vitamins tossed in)

> > > >

> > > > I have read much recently on dogs and cats being allergic

> to

> > > wheat,

> > > > so having a product that does not contain wheat might be

> good,

> > > > although perhaps sprouted wheat might work.

> > > >

> > > > The pet food we switched to has less grain in it and more

> meat

> > > and

> > > > bone meals. Last week there was much talk about raw meat

> and

> > > bones

> > > > and so something dehydrated with ground meat, bone and

> > > supplements

> > > > would be cool.

> > > >

> > > > I have found that my dog really enjoys veggies, and so we

> give

> > > them

> > > > to him often (both cooked and raw) Perhaps that could be

> added

> > > to the

> > > > mix. We had recently been discussing a mix we could make

> for

> > > our

> > > > puppy and dehyrating or baking, so i really like this idea

> > > >

> > > > Sylvia

> > > >

> > > > In herbal remedies , <zeb@A...> wrote:

> > > > > Pam,

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank you very much. I have been working with Doc in

> > > trying to

> > > > come up with a Raw dehydrated pet food that was ALL organic

> > > and only

> > > > what dogs need not what we " think " they need. If anyone

> has

> > > > suggestions or know of studies regarding dog and cat foods

> > > please let

> > > > me know.

> > > > >

> > > > > Love,,

> > > > > Zeb

> > > > > -

> > > > > pam

> > > > > herbal remedies

> > > > > Tuesday, May 04, 2004 12:10 AM

> > > > > Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

> > > > >

> > > > > http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?

> > > > cls=2 & cat=1661 & articleid=668

> > > > >

> > > > > Dog Food Labels

> > > > > Veterinary & Aquatic Services Department, Drs. Foster &

> > > Smith,

> > > > Inc.

> > > > >

> > > > > Q. What do dog food labels mean?

> > > > >

> > > > > A. Reading your pet food label is one of the best ways

> to

> > > > determine

> > > > > the quality of the food you are feeding. The

> ingredients

> > > and the

> > > > > guaranteed analysis (amounts of protein, fat,

> > > carbohydrates,

> > > > fiber,

> > > > > and other nutrients) are included on the food label. In

> > > addition

> > > > to

> > > > > providing information about the amount and quality of

> > > protein and

> > > > > fat, the label will also alert you of any unwanted

> > > preservatives

> > > > and

> > > > > give general feeding guidelines.

> > > > > A few other things to consider are the price. Calculate

> > > out the

> > > > > price per pound or the price per day. Almost always,

> dry

> > > food is

> > > > > more economical, and the larger the bag the lower the

> > > price per

> > > > > pound. Many times, a 40-pound bag is less than half as

> > > much per

> > > > > pound than an equivalent 5-pound bag. Remember that

> with

> > > lower

> > > > > quality foods you feed more and it may not always be

> > > cheaper. On

> > > > the

> > > > > other hand, some of the higher priced foods, especially

> > > foods

> > > > sold

> > > > > only through veterinarians, may not be as good as the

> less

> > > > expensive

> > > > > more easily obtainable food. Check the ingredients,

> they

> > > will

> > > > tell

> > > > > the real story. Most pets do not need specialty foods,

> > > just

> > > > quality

> > > > > food. By understanding this article and looking at a

> few

> > > pet food

> > > > > labels you will be able to find the best food for your

> pet.

> > > > >

> > > > > Converting dry matter basis

> > > > >

> > > > > This can be the hard part. All pet foods have different

> > > levels of

> > > > > moisture. Canned foods can have up to 80% moisture

> > > whereas, some

> > > > dry

> > > > > foods can have as little as 6%. This is important for 2

> > > reasons.

> > > > The

> > > > > first is that the food is priced by the pound, and when

> > > you buy

> > > > dog

> > > > > food that is 80% water you get 20% food and the rest is

> > > water. So

> > > > > the amount of food your pet consumes is small and

> > > expensive. The

> > > > > other reason for understanding percent moisture is to

> help

> > > you

> > > > > compare crude protein and fat between brands and

> between

> > > canned

> > > > and

> > > > > dry. The listings on the label are for the food as it

> is,

> > > not as

> > > > it

> > > > > would be on a dry matter basis. So without converting

> both

> > > brands

> > > > of

> > > > > food to a dry matter basis you will not be able to

> compare

> > > them

> > > > > accurately. Fortunately, the conversion is not that

> > > complicated.

> > > > >

> > > > > If a dry dog food has 10% moisture we know that it has

> 90%

> > > dry

> > > > > matter. So we look at the label and check the protein

> > > level that

> > > > > reads 20%. Next, we divide the 20 percent protein by

> the

> > > 90% dry

> > > > > matter and we get 22%, which is the amount of protein

> on a

> > > dry

> > > > > matter basis. Does this make sense so far? Good. Now

> let

> > > us

> > > > compare

> > > > > this to canned food that has 80% moisture. We know that

> > > with 80%

> > > > > moisture we have 20% dry matter. The label shows 5%

> > > protein. So

> > > > we

> > > > > take the 5% and divide it by 20% and we get 25%

> protein on

> > > a dry

> > > > > matter basis. So the canned food has more protein per

> > > pound on a

> > > > dry

> > > > > matter basis after all the water is taken out. We can

> do

> > > the same

> > > > > for fat, fiber, etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > Guaranteed analysis

> > > > >

> > > > > The guaranteed analysis on the information panel of the

> > > dog food

> > > > > label lists the minimum levels of crude protein and fat

> > > and the

> > > > > maximum levels of fiber and water. The protein and fat

> are

> > > listed

> > > > as

> > > > > crude sources and not as digestible sources. The

> > > digestibility of

> > > > > protein and fat can vary widely depending on their

> > > sources. The

> > > > list

> > > > > of ingredients should be examined closely to determine

> how

> > > > > digestible the sources are (see articles on protein and

> > > fat for

> > > > more

> > > > > explanation). The other factor in determining actual

> > > protein and

> > > > fat

> > > > > percentages is the amount of moisture present in the

> food

> > > as

> > > > > discussed earlier. While the guaranteed analysis is a

> > > start in

> > > > > understanding the quality of the food, be very careful

> > > about

> > > > relying

> > > > > on it too much. A pet food manufacturer made a mock

> > > product that

> > > > had

> > > > > a guaranteed analysis of 10% protein, 6.5% fat, 2.4%

> > > fiber, and

> > > > 68%

> > > > > moisture, similar to what you see on many canned pet

> food

> > > labels.

> > > > > The only problem, was that the ingredients were old

> > > leather work

> > > > > boots, used motor oil, crushed coal, and water!

> > > > >

> > > > > Ingredient list

> > > > >

> > > > > All pet foods must list the ingredients present in the

> > > food. The

> > > > > ingredients must be listed in order of weight. This is

> one

> > > of the

> > > > > best ways to determine the quality of the food. With a

> > > little

> > > > > knowledge of the ingredients, you can choose a food

> that

> > > is

> > > > highly

> > > > > digestible and free of unwanted products. Be careful of

> > > one

> > > > tactic

> > > > > used by manufacturers to disguise less desirable

> > > ingredients.

> > > > > Breaking an ingredient into several different smaller

> > > ingredients

> > > > > and listing them individually is used to lower these

> > > undesirable

> > > > > ingredients farther down the ingredient list. For

> example,

> > > a

> > > > product

> > > > > list could contain chicken, ground corn, corn gluten,

> > > ground

> > > > wheat,

> > > > > corn bran, wheat flour, wheat middling, etc. If we

> were to

> > > group

> > > > all

> > > > > of the corn ingredients as one, they would probably far

> > > out-weigh

> > > > > the amount of chicken, and wheat. As a consumer, you

> must

> > > read

> > > > all

> > > > > of the ingredients carefully including the ingredients

> at

> > > the

> > > > end,

> > > > > to know the type of preservatives and colorings that

> are

> > > used. I

> > > > > have listed a few of the more common ingredients and

> their

> > > > > definitions.

> > > > >

> > > > > Meat: Meat is the clean flesh of slaughtered animals

> > > (chicken,

> > > > > cattle, lamb, turkey, etc.). The flesh can include

> > > striated

> > > > skeletal

> > > > > muscle, tongue, diaphragm, heart, esophagus, overlying

> fat

> > > and

> > > > the

> > > > > skin, sinew, nerves and blood vessels normally found

> with

> > > that

> > > > flesh.

> > > > >

> > > > > Meat By-products: Meat by-products are clean parts of

> > > slaughtered

> > > > > animals, not including meat. These include lungs,

> spleen,

> > > > kidneys,

> > > > > brain, liver, blood, bone, and stomach and intestines

> > > freed of

> > > > their

> > > > > contents. It does not include hair, horns, teeth, or

> > > hooves.

> > > > >

> > > > > Poultry By-products: Poultry by-products are clean

> parts

> > > of

> > > > > slaughtered poultry such as heads, feet, and internal

> > > organs

> > > > (like

> > > > > heart, lungs, liver, kidneys, abdomen, and

> intestines). It

> > > does

> > > > not

> > > > > contain feathers.

> > > > >

> > > > > Fish Meal: Fish meal is the clean ground tissue of

> > > undecomposed

> > > > > whole fish or fish cuttings, with or without the oil

> > > extracted.

> > > > >

> > > > > Beef Tallow: Beef tallow is fat derived from beef.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ground Corn: Ground corn is the entire corn kernel

> ground

> > > or

> > > > chopped.

> > > > >

> > > > > Corn Gluten Meal: Corn gluten meal is the by-product

> after

> > > the

> > > > > manufacture of corn syrup or starch, and is the dried

> > > residue

> > > > after

> > > > > the removal of the bran, germ, and starch.

> > > > >

> > > > > Brewers Rice: Brewers rice is the small fragments of

> rice

> > > kernels

> > > > > that have been separated from larger kernels of milled

> > > rice.

> > > > >

> > > > > Brown Rice: Brown rice is the unpolished rice left over

> > > after the

> > > > > kernels have been removed.

> > > > >

> > > > > Soybean Meal: Soybean meal is a by-product of the

> > > production of

> > > > > soybean oil.

> > > > >

> > > > > BHA: BHA is butylated hydroxyanisole, a fat

> preservative.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ethoxyquin: Ethoxyquin is a chemical preservative that

> is

> > > used to

> > > > > prevent spoilage in dog food.

> > > > >

> > > > > Tocopherols: Tocopherols (e.g., vitamin E) are

> naturally

> > > > occurring

> > > > > compounds used as natural preservatives.

> > > > >

> > > > > The AAFCO standards

> > > > >

> > > > > 'AAFCO' stands for the Association of American Feed

> > > Control

> > > > > Officials. The AAFCO develops guidelines for the

> > > production,

> > > > > labeling, and sale of animal foods. These are called

> the

> > > AAFCO

> > > > > standards. AAFCO has developed two standards which pet

> > > foods

> > > > should

> > > > > meet. Pet foods which meet the AAFCO's requirements

> will

> > > include

> > > > one

> > > > > of two statements on their label.

> > > > >

> > > > > The first and lower standard states 'formulated to meet

> > > AAFCO's

> > > > > nutrient requirement.' This means the food was tested

> in

> > > the

> > > > > laboratory and was found to have the recommended

> amounts

> > > of

> > > > protein,

> > > > > fat, etc. But as mentioned above, the combination of

> shoe

> > > > leather,

> > > > > used motor oil, and coal would meet this standard.

> > > > >

> > > > > The second standard states something like 'animal-

> feeding

> > > tests

> > > > > using AAFCO's procedures substantiate that this product

> > > provides

> > > > > complete and balanced nutrition.' For a pet food to be

> > > able to

> > > > carry

> > > > > this label, it had to be tested on a population of

> animals

> > > for

> > > > six

> > > > > months and shown to provide adequate nutrition. But

> even

> > > with

> > > > this

> > > > > statement, there are problems with its interpretation.

> If

> > > one

> > > > > particular product in a manufacturer's line was tested

> and

> > > found

> > > > to

> > > > > meet this standard, the company is allowed to include

> this

> > > same

> > > > > statement on other products in the same 'family' which

> > > provide

> > > > equal

> > > > > or greater concentrations of all the nutrients. So

> even if

> > > the

> > > > pet

> > > > > food carries this AAFCO food trial statement on its

> label,

> > > you

> > > > can

> > > > > not be sure that specific product was actually tested

> in a

> > > food

> > > > > trial. In addition, testing a food for six months is

> not

> > > an

> > > > adequate

> > > > > amount of time to determine if deficiencies or other

> long

> > > term

> > > > > effects may occur after feeding the product a year or

> > > more.

> > > > Despite

> > > > > these problems with the interpretation of this AAFCO

> food

> > > trial

> > > > > statement, having the statement on a pet food label at

> > > least

> > > > shows

> > > > > the company has made some attempt to develop a good

> food.

> > > > >

> > > > > Feeding instructions

> > > > >

> > > > > Feeding instructions or guidelines are included on most

> > > every bag

> > > > > and most cans of pet foods. These guidelines give the

> > > recommended

> > > > > amount to be fed based on growth level and weight. I

> would

> > > remind

> > > > > owners that these are very rough guidelines. Every

> animal

> > > has a

> > > > > different level of activity, metabolism, and ambient

> > > > environmental

> > > > > temperature. In addition, breed, age, and other

> > > environmental

> > > > > stresses all impact daily requirements. I encourage

> you to

> > > use

> > > > these

> > > > > guidelines as rough starting points. If your animal is

> > > thin or

> > > > > hungry, feed it more often and in greater quantity. If

> > > your pet

> > > > is

> > > > > obese, feed it less. I cannot begin to count the

> number of

> > > > clients

> > > > > that have complained of a hungry, thin, or obese dog

> and

> > > after

> > > > being

> > > > > questioned about it found that they were feeding the

> > > recommended

> > > > > amount on the bag and were afraid to deviate from it.

> This

> > > is an

> > > > > area where common sense is much more important than

> > > science.

> > > > >

> > > > > Summary

> > > > >

> > > > > One of the most common questions that I get is what is

> the

> > > best

> > > > pet

> > > > > food on the market? I can honestly say that there is

> not

> > > one. The

> > > > > very fact that there are so many types and brands on

> the

> > > market

> > > > > shows that there are hundreds of options and opinions.

> > > Some dogs

> > > > > need higher fat and protein than others. Feed what is

> > > appropriate

> > > > > for your pet: puppies need puppy food and cats need cat

> > > food. Do

> > > > not

> > > > > switch brands every month, but do not be afraid to

> switch

> > > brands

> > > > and

> > > > > find one that your pet does well on. I have seen

> medical

> > > problems

> > > > > from dogs fed the cheaper generic foods, and some farm

> > > store and

> > > > > department store brands. If you are feeding a pet food

> > > that can

> > > > only

> > > > > be purchased from a veterinarian, read the label

> closely

> > > and then

> > > > > compare it to some of the premium brands on the market.

> > > Then

> > > > check

> > > > > the price. You may be in for a big surprise! You do not

> > > always

> > > > get

> > > > > what you pay for.

> > > > >

> > > > > The other question I get is, 'what do I feed my pets?'

> I

> > > can tell

> > > > > you that I feed my dog a premium national brand that is

> > > chicken

> > > > and

> > > > > rice and sells for around 73 cents a pound. I feed my

> cats

> > > a

> > > > premium

> > > > > brand that is formulated to help reduce cystitis and

> > > urinary

> > > > > problems, which sells for twice of what my dog food

> costs,

> > > but my

> > > > > cats eat very little and do great on it. I always feed

> dry

> > > food

> > > > and

> > > > > free choice. Feeding table scraps and treats have to be

> > > > considered

> > > > > in the overall diet and are discussed more thoroughly

> in

> > > their

> > > > > separate articles.

> > > > >

> > > > > References and Further Reading

> > > > >

> > > > > Palika, L. The Consumer's Guide To Dog Food. Howell

> Book

> > > House of

> > > > > Simon & Schuster/Macmillan Company. New York, NY; 1996.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ralston Purina Company. Nutrition and Management of

> Dogs

> > > and

> > > > Cats.

> > > > > St. Louis, MO; 1987.

> > > > >

> > > > > Pam

> > > > >

> > > > > Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following:

> > > > > 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.

> > > > > 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before

> > > using any

> > > > natural remedy.

> > > > > 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your

> > > own

> > > > physician and to

> > > > > prescribe for your own health.

> > > > > We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to

> > > post here

> > > > as long as

> > > > > they behave themselves.

> > > > > Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly

> > > that, and

> > > > any person

> > > > > following the advice of anyone posting here does so at

> > > their own

> > > > risk.

> > > > > It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting

> advice

> > > or

> > > > products from list members, you are agreeing to

> > > > > be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the

> > > List Owner

> > > > and members free of any liability.

> > > > >

> > > > > Dr. Ian Shillington

> > > > > Doctor of Naturopathy

> > > > > Dr.IanShillington@G...

> > > > >

May 6, 2004

LOL... If you do it in BULK you can get this down to about $70 a month. If it could be gotten to really go well maybe $60 a month plus whatever shipping and handling would be to get all of the items mailed to your door. hmmm. So still about $75 a month. At least that's the goal.

We're more in the theory stages. If I can get all of this right.

Zeb

-

Candace Podratz

herbal remedies

Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:29 PM

Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

WOW how much do you guys pay to feed your animals, $350/month?

: O

-

zeb

herbal remedies

Wednesday, May 05, 2004 5:43 PM

Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

Exactly. Something like a whole chicken through a grinder, some different grasses and herbs that dogs naturally eat in the wild. find the most common ones. Maybe some kind of catnip or whatever dogs use for dognip (ha ha ha). Sprout some brown rice as the filler if anything rather than wheat. Or better yet some wild rice which is actually in the grass family. Add fresh garlic cloves, carrots, some beets, spinach leaf maybe etc. Stuff like that. Then grind it all up. All Raw. Then dehydrate at or below 105 degrees. Add some of the UDO's Pet Oil. Throw in a tiny bit of rose hips. Something like that.

Mix some eggs in as well and you have your thingy. For cats it has to be far more protein based. I think this would do it. You have two choices. Freeze it on packets so they can be thawed and mixed with a bit of hot water or dehydrate and vacuum seal.

That's what I'm gonna try at least.

Zeb

-

Sylvia

herbal remedies

Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:39 PM

Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

So it would be dehydrated meat then LOL?????(and maybe some vitamins tossed in)I have read much recently on dogs and cats being allergic to wheat, so having a product that does not contain wheat might be good, although perhaps sprouted wheat might work.The pet food we switched to has less grain in it and more meat and bone meals. Last week there was much talk about raw meat and bones and so something dehydrated with ground meat, bone and supplements would be cool.I have found that my dog really enjoys veggies, and so we give them to him often (both cooked and raw) Perhaps that could be added to the mix. We had recently been discussing a mix we could make for our puppy and dehyrating or baking, so i really like this ideaSylviaIn herbal remedies , <zeb@A...> wrote:> Pam,> > Thank you very much. I have been working with Doc in trying to come up with a Raw dehydrated pet food that was ALL organic and only what dogs need not what we "think" they need. If anyone has suggestions or know of studies regarding dog and cat foods please let me know.> > Love,,> Zeb> - > pam > herbal remedies > Tuesday, May 04, 2004 12:10 AM> Herbal Remedies - dog food labels> > > > > http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2 & cat=1661 & articleid=668> > > Dog Food Labels> Veterinary & Aquatic Services Department, Drs. Foster & Smith, Inc. > > > Q. What do dog food labels mean?> > A. Reading your pet food label is one of the best ways to determine > the quality of the food you are feeding. The ingredients and the > guaranteed analysis (amounts of protein, fat, carbohydrates, fiber, > and other nutrients) are included on the food label. In addition to > providing information about the amount and quality of protein and > fat, the label will also alert you of any unwanted preservatives and > give general feeding guidelines. > A few other things to consider are the price. Calculate out the > price per pound or the price per day. Almost always, dry food is > more economical, and the larger the bag the lower the price per > pound. Many times, a 40-pound bag is less than half as much per > pound than an equivalent 5-pound bag. Remember that with lower > quality foods you feed more and it may not always be cheaper. On the > other hand, some of the higher priced foods, especially foods sold > only through veterinarians, may not be as good as the less expensive > more easily obtainable food. Check the ingredients, they will tell > the real story. Most pets do not need specialty foods, just quality > food. By understanding this article and looking at a few pet food > labels you will be able to find the best food for your pet.> > Converting dry matter basis> > This can be the hard part. All pet foods have different levels of > moisture. Canned foods can have up to 80% moisture whereas, some dry > foods can have as little as 6%. This is important for 2 reasons. The > first is that the food is priced by the pound, and when you buy dog > food that is 80% water you get 20% food and the rest is water. So > the amount of food your pet consumes is small and expensive. The > other reason for understanding percent moisture is to help you > compare crude protein and fat between brands and between canned and > dry. The listings on the label are for the food as it is, not as it > would be on a dry matter basis. So without converting both brands of > food to a dry matter basis you will not be able to compare them > accurately. Fortunately, the conversion is not that complicated.> > If a dry dog food has 10% moisture we know that it has 90% dry > matter. So we look at the label and check the protein level that > reads 20%. Next, we divide the 20 percent protein by the 90% dry > matter and we get 22%, which is the amount of protein on a dry > matter basis. Does this make sense so far? Good. Now let us compare > this to canned food that has 80% moisture. We know that with 80% > moisture we have 20% dry matter. The label shows 5% protein. So we > take the 5% and divide it by 20% and we get 25% protein on a dry > matter basis. So the canned food has more protein per pound on a dry > matter basis after all the water is taken out. We can do the same > for fat, fiber, etc.> > Guaranteed analysis> > The guaranteed analysis on the information panel of the dog food > label lists the minimum levels of crude protein and fat and the > maximum levels of fiber and water. The protein and fat are listed as > crude sources and not as digestible sources. The digestibility of > protein and fat can vary widely depending on their sources. The list > of ingredients should be examined closely to determine how > digestible the sources are (see articles on protein and fat for more > explanation). The other factor in determining actual protein and fat > percentages is the amount of moisture present in the food as > discussed earlier. While the guaranteed analysis is a start in > understanding the quality of the food, be very careful about relying > on it too much. A pet food manufacturer made a mock product that had > a guaranteed analysis of 10% protein, 6.5% fat, 2.4% fiber, and 68% > moisture, similar to what you see on many canned pet food labels. > The only problem, was that the ingredients were old leather work > boots, used motor oil, crushed coal, and water!> > Ingredient list> > All pet foods must list the ingredients present in the food. The > ingredients must be listed in order of weight. This is one of the > best ways to determine the quality of the food. With a little > knowledge of the ingredients, you can choose a food that is highly > digestible and free of unwanted products. Be careful of one tactic > used by manufacturers to disguise less desirable ingredients. > Breaking an ingredient into several different smaller ingredients > and listing them individually is used to lower these undesirable > ingredients farther down the ingredient list. For example, a product > list could contain chicken, ground corn, corn gluten, ground wheat, > corn bran, wheat flour, wheat middling, etc. If we were to group all > of the corn ingredients as one, they would probably far out-weigh > the amount of chicken, and wheat. As a consumer, you must read all > of the ingredients carefully including the ingredients at the end, > to know the type of preservatives and colorings that are used. I > have listed a few of the more common ingredients and their > definitions.> > Meat: Meat is the clean flesh of slaughtered animals (chicken, > cattle, lamb, turkey, etc.). The flesh can include striated skeletal > muscle, tongue, diaphragm, heart, esophagus, overlying fat and the > skin, sinew, nerves and blood vessels normally found with that flesh.> > Meat By-products: Meat by-products are clean parts of slaughtered > animals, not including meat. These include lungs, spleen, kidneys, > brain, liver, blood, bone, and stomach and intestines freed of their > contents. It does not include hair, horns, teeth, or hooves.> > Poultry By-products: Poultry by-products are clean parts of > slaughtered poultry such as heads, feet, and internal organs (like > heart, lungs, liver, kidneys, abdomen, and intestines). It does not > contain feathers.> > Fish Meal: Fish meal is the clean ground tissue of undecomposed > whole fish or fish cuttings, with or without the oil extracted.> > Beef Tallow: Beef tallow is fat derived from beef.> > Ground Corn: Ground corn is the entire corn kernel ground or chopped.> > Corn Gluten Meal: Corn gluten meal is the by-product after the > manufacture of corn syrup or starch, and is the dried residue after > the removal of the bran, germ, and starch.> > Brewers Rice: Brewers rice is the small fragments of rice kernels > that have been separated from larger kernels of milled rice.> > Brown Rice: Brown rice is the unpolished rice left over after the > kernels have been removed.> > Soybean Meal: Soybean meal is a by-product of the production of > soybean oil.> > BHA: BHA is butylated hydroxyanisole, a fat preservative.> > Ethoxyquin: Ethoxyquin is a chemical preservative that is used to > prevent spoilage in dog food.> > Tocopherols: Tocopherols (e.g., vitamin E) are naturally occurring > compounds used as natural preservatives.> > The AAFCO standards> > 'AAFCO' stands for the Association of American Feed Control > Officials. The AAFCO develops guidelines for the production, > labeling, and sale of animal foods. These are called the AAFCO > standards. AAFCO has developed two standards which pet foods should > meet. Pet foods which meet the AAFCO's requirements will include one > of two statements on their label.> > The first and lower standard states 'formulated to meet AAFCO's > nutrient requirement.' This means the food was tested in the > laboratory and was found to have the recommended amounts of protein, > fat, etc. But as mentioned above, the combination of shoe leather, > used motor oil, and coal would meet this standard.> > The second standard states something like 'animal-feeding tests > using AAFCO's procedures substantiate that this product provides > complete and balanced nutrition.' For a pet food to be able to carry > this label, it had to be tested on a population of animals for six > months and shown to provide adequate nutrition. But even with this > statement, there are problems with its interpretation. If one > particular product in a manufacturer's line was tested and found to > meet this standard, the company is allowed to include this same > statement on other products in the same 'family' which provide equal > or greater concentrations of all the nutrients. So even if the pet > food carries this AAFCO food trial statement on its label, you can > not be sure that specific product was actually tested in a food > trial. In addition, testing a food for six months is not an adequate > amount of time to determine if deficiencies or other long term > effects may occur after feeding the product a year or more. Despite > these problems with the interpretation of this AAFCO food trial > statement, having the statement on a pet food label at least shows > the company has made some attempt to develop a good food.> > Feeding instructions> > Feeding instructions or guidelines are included on most every bag > and most cans of pet foods. These guidelines give the recommended > amount to be fed based on growth level and weight. I would remind > owners that these are very rough guidelines. Every animal has a > different level of activity, metabolism, and ambient environmental > temperature. In addition, breed, age, and other environmental > stresses all impact daily requirements. I encourage you to use these > guidelines as rough starting points. If your animal is thin or > hungry, feed it more often and in greater quantity. If your pet is > obese, feed it less. I cannot begin to count the number of clients > that have complained of a hungry, thin, or obese dog and after being > questioned about it found that they were feeding the recommended > amount on the bag and were afraid to deviate from it. This is an > area where common sense is much more important than science.> > Summary> > One of the most common questions that I get is what is the best pet > food on the market? I can honestly say that there is not one. The > very fact that there are so many types and brands on the market > shows that there are hundreds of options and opinions. Some dogs > need higher fat and protein than others. Feed what is appropriate > for your pet: puppies need puppy food and cats need cat food. Do not > switch brands every month, but do not be afraid to switch brands and > find one that your pet does well on. I have seen medical problems > from dogs fed the cheaper generic foods, and some farm store and > department store brands. If you are feeding a pet food that can only > be purchased from a veterinarian, read the label closely and then > compare it to some of the premium brands on the market. Then check > the price. You may be in for a big surprise! You do not always get > what you pay for.> > The other question I get is, 'what do I feed my pets?' I can tell > you that I feed my dog a premium national brand that is chicken and > rice and sells for around 73 cents a pound. I feed my cats a premium > brand that is formulated to help reduce cystitis and urinary > problems, which sells for twice of what my dog food costs, but my > cats eat very little and do great on it. I always feed dry food and > free choice. Feeding table scraps and treats have to be considered > in the overall diet and are discussed more thoroughly in their > separate articles.> > > References and Further Reading> > > Palika, L. The Consumer's Guide To Dog Food. Howell Book House of > Simon & Schuster/Macmillan Company. New York, NY; 1996.> > Ralston Purina Company. Nutrition and Management of Dogs and Cats. > St. Louis, MO; 1987.> > > > > Pam> > > > > > Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: > 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. > 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. > 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and to> prescribe for your own health. > We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as > they behave themselves. > Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person > following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. > It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to > be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. > > Dr. Ian Shillington> Doctor of Naturopathy> Dr.IanShillington@G... > > >

May 6, 2004

You simply start adding a tiny bit of tuna to begin with and they'll take it VERY slowly. But you can wean them off it.

Zeb

-

Candace Podratz

herbal remedies

Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:30 PM

Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

You're right, I've TRIED giving my cats various things and they won't touchit...even raw meat!!!I don't have the first clue what you'd feed a cat if not for cat food.- "Sylvia" <h10feet<herbal remedies >Wednesday, May 05, 2004 5:51 PMRe: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels> Sounds really interesting.>> LOL @ Dognip. Dogs dont need any anhancement in that department as> they are usually in a good mood! Dognip = rope, or dognip = ball, or> frisbee, or kisses, etc....>> We thought sprouted rice would be good too since we gave the puppy> some leftover sprouted rice from dinner one time, scarfed it right> up. I like the idea of grasses.>> Cat food is going to be tough as cats tend to be exceptionally picky> and mine are no expection, although with a food that is mostly> dehydrated protein that could be a winner. I wish i had more time as> i would be willing to experiment along with you. Perhaps you can> share your recipes and i can try/test them as i get time?>> Sylvia>> herbal remedies , <zeb@A...> wrote:> > Exactly. Something like a whole chicken through a grinder, some> different grasses and herbs that dogs naturally eat in the wild.> find the most common ones. Maybe some kind of catnip or whatever> dogs use for dognip (ha ha ha). Sprout some brown rice as the filler> if anything rather than wheat. Or better yet some wild rice which is> actually in the grass family. Add fresh garlic cloves, carrots, some> beets, spinach leaf maybe etc. Stuff like that. Then grind it all> up. All Raw. Then dehydrate at or below 105 degrees. Add some of> the UDO's Pet Oil. Throw in a tiny bit of rose hips. Something like> that.> >> > Mix some eggs in as well and you have your thingy. For cats it has> to be far more protein based. I think this would do it. You have> two choices. Freeze it on packets so they can be thawed and mixed> with a bit of hot water or dehydrate and vacuum seal.> >> > That's what I'm gonna try at least.> >> > Zeb> > - > > Sylvia> > herbal remedies > > Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:39 PM> > Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels> >> >> > So it would be dehydrated meat then LOL?????> > (and maybe some vitamins tossed in)> >> > I have read much recently on dogs and cats being allergic to> wheat,> > so having a product that does not contain wheat might be good,> > although perhaps sprouted wheat might work.> >> > The pet food we switched to has less grain in it and more meat> and> > bone meals. Last week there was much talk about raw meat and> bones> > and so something dehydrated with ground meat, bone and> supplements> > would be cool.> >> > I have found that my dog really enjoys veggies, and so we give> them> > to him often (both cooked and raw) Perhaps that could be added to> the> > mix. We had recently been discussing a mix we could make for our> > puppy and dehyrating or baking, so i really like this idea> >> > Sylvia> >> > In herbal remedies , <zeb@A...> wrote:> > > Pam,> > >> > > Thank you very much. I have been working with Doc in> trying to> > come up with a Raw dehydrated pet food that was ALL organic and> only> > what dogs need not what we "think" they need. If anyone has> > suggestions or know of studies regarding dog and cat foods please> let> > me know.> > >> > > Love,,> > > Zeb> > > - > > > pam> > > herbal remedies > > > Tuesday, May 04, 2004 12:10 AM> > > Herbal Remedies - dog food labels> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?> > cls=2 & cat=1661 & articleid=668> > >> > >> > > Dog Food Labels> > > Veterinary & Aquatic Services Department, Drs. Foster & > Smith,> > Inc.> > >> > >> > > Q. What do dog food labels mean?> > >> > > A. Reading your pet food label is one of the best ways to> > determine> > > the quality of the food you are feeding. The ingredients and> the> > > guaranteed analysis (amounts of protein, fat, carbohydrates,> > fiber,> > > and other nutrients) are included on the food label. In> addition> > to> > > providing information about the amount and quality of protein> and> > > fat, the label will also alert you of any unwanted> preservatives> > and> > > give general feeding guidelines.> > > A few other things to consider are the price. Calculate out> the> > > price per pound or the price per day. Almost always, dry food> is> > > more economical, and the larger the bag the lower the price> per> > > pound. Many times, a 40-pound bag is less than half as much> per> > > pound than an equivalent 5-pound bag. Remember that with> lower> > > quality foods you feed more and it may not always be cheaper.> On> > the> > > other hand, some of the higher priced foods, especially foods> > sold> > > only through veterinarians, may not be as good as the less> > expensive> > > more easily obtainable food. Check the ingredients, they will> > tell> > > the real story. Most pets do not need specialty foods, just> > quality> > > food. By understanding this article and looking at a few pet> food> > > labels you will be able to find the best food for your pet.> > >> > > Converting dry matter basis> > >> > > This can be the hard part. All pet foods have different> levels of> > > moisture. Canned foods can have up to 80% moisture whereas,> some> > dry> > > foods can have as little as 6%. This is important for 2> reasons.> > The> > > first is that the food is priced by the pound, and when you> buy> > dog> > > food that is 80% water you get 20% food and the rest is> water. So> > > the amount of food your pet consumes is small and expensive.> The> > > other reason for understanding percent moisture is to help> you> > > compare crude protein and fat between brands and between> canned> > and> > > dry. The listings on the label are for the food as it is, not> as> > it> > > would be on a dry matter basis. So without converting both> brands> > of> > > food to a dry matter basis you will not be able to compare> them> > > accurately. Fortunately, the conversion is not that> complicated.> > >> > > If a dry dog food has 10% moisture we know that it has 90%> dry> > > matter. So we look at the label and check the protein level> that> > > reads 20%. Next, we divide the 20 percent protein by the 90%> dry> > > matter and we get 22%, which is the amount of protein on a> dry> > > matter basis. Does this make sense so far? Good. Now let us> > compare> > > this to canned food that has 80% moisture. We know that with> 80%> > > moisture we have 20% dry matter. The label shows 5% protein.> So> > we> > > take the 5% and divide it by 20% and we get 25% protein on a> dry> > > matter basis. So the canned food has more protein per pound> on a> > dry> > > matter basis after all the water is taken out. We can do the> same> > > for fat, fiber, etc.> > >> > > Guaranteed analysis> > >> > > The guaranteed analysis on the information panel of the dog> food> > > label lists the minimum levels of crude protein and fat and> the> > > maximum levels of fiber and water. The protein and fat are> listed> > as> > > crude sources and not as digestible sources. The> digestibility of> > > protein and fat can vary widely depending on their sources.> The> > list> > > of ingredients should be examined closely to determine how> > > digestible the sources are (see articles on protein and fat> for> > more> > > explanation). The other factor in determining actual protein> and> > fat> > > percentages is the amount of moisture present in the food as> > > discussed earlier. While the guaranteed analysis is a start> in> > > understanding the quality of the food, be very careful about> > relying> > > on it too much. A pet food manufacturer made a mock product> that> > had> > > a guaranteed analysis of 10% protein, 6.5% fat, 2.4% fiber,> and> > 68%> > > moisture, similar to what you see on many canned pet food> labels.> > > The only problem, was that the ingredients were old leather> work> > > boots, used motor oil, crushed coal, and water!> > >> > > Ingredient list> > >> > > All pet foods must list the ingredients present in the food.> The> > > ingredients must be listed in order of weight. This is one of> the> > > best ways to determine the quality of the food. With a little> > > knowledge of the ingredients, you can choose a food that is> > highly> > > digestible and free of unwanted products. Be careful of one> > tactic> > > used by manufacturers to disguise less desirable ingredients.> > > Breaking an ingredient into several different smaller> ingredients> > > and listing them individually is used to lower these> undesirable> > > ingredients farther down the ingredient list. For example, a> > product> > > list could contain chicken, ground corn, corn gluten, ground> > wheat,> > > corn bran, wheat flour, wheat middling, etc. If we were to> group> > all> > > of the corn ingredients as one, they would probably far out-> weigh> > > the amount of chicken, and wheat. As a consumer, you must> read> > all> > > of the ingredients carefully including the ingredients at the> > end,> > > to know the type of preservatives and colorings that are> used. I> > > have listed a few of the more common ingredients and their> > > definitions.> > >> > > Meat: Meat is the clean flesh of slaughtered animals> (chicken,> > > cattle, lamb, turkey, etc.). The flesh can include striated> > skeletal> > > muscle, tongue, diaphragm, heart, esophagus, overlying fat> and> > the> > > skin, sinew, nerves and blood vessels normally found with> that> > flesh.> > >> > > Meat By-products: Meat by-products are clean parts of> slaughtered> > > animals, not including meat. These include lungs, spleen,> > kidneys,> > > brain, liver, blood, bone, and stomach and intestines freed> of> > their> > > contents. It does not include hair, horns, teeth, or hooves.> > >> > > Poultry By-products: Poultry by-products are clean parts of> > > slaughtered poultry such as heads, feet, and internal organs> > (like> > > heart, lungs, liver, kidneys, abdomen, and intestines). It> does> > not> > > contain feathers.> > >> > > Fish Meal: Fish meal is the clean ground tissue of> undecomposed> > > whole fish or fish cuttings, with or without the oil> extracted.> > >> > > Beef Tallow: Beef tallow is fat derived from beef.> > >> > > Ground Corn: Ground corn is the entire corn kernel ground or> > chopped.> > >> > > Corn Gluten Meal: Corn gluten meal is the by-product after> the> > > manufacture of corn syrup or starch, and is the dried residue> > after> > > the removal of the bran, germ, and starch.> > >> > > Brewers Rice: Brewers rice is the small fragments of rice> kernels> > > that have been separated from larger kernels of milled rice.> > >> > > Brown Rice: Brown rice is the unpolished rice left over after> the> > > kernels have been removed.> > >> > > Soybean Meal: Soybean meal is a by-product of the production> of> > > soybean oil.> > >> > > BHA: BHA is butylated hydroxyanisole, a fat preservative.> > >> > > Ethoxyquin: Ethoxyquin is a chemical preservative that is> used to> > > prevent spoilage in dog food.> > >> > > Tocopherols: Tocopherols (e.g., vitamin E) are naturally> > occurring> > > compounds used as natural preservatives.> > >> > > The AAFCO standards> > >> > > 'AAFCO' stands for the Association of American Feed Control> > > Officials. The AAFCO develops guidelines for the production,> > > labeling, and sale of animal foods. These are called the> AAFCO> > > standards. AAFCO has developed two standards which pet foods> > should> > > meet. Pet foods which meet the AAFCO's requirements will> include> > one> > > of two statements on their label.> > >> > > The first and lower standard states 'formulated to meet> AAFCO's> > > nutrient requirement.' This means the food was tested in the> > > laboratory and was found to have the recommended amounts of> > protein,> > > fat, etc. But as mentioned above, the combination of shoe> > leather,> > > used motor oil, and coal would meet this standard.> > >> > > The second standard states something like 'animal-feeding> tests> > > using AAFCO's procedures substantiate that this product> provides> > > complete and balanced nutrition.' For a pet food to be able> to> > carry> > > this label, it had to be tested on a population of animals> for> > six> > > months and shown to provide adequate nutrition. But even with> > this> > > statement, there are problems with its interpretation. If one> > > particular product in a manufacturer's line was tested and> found> > to> > > meet this standard, the company is allowed to include this> same> > > statement on other products in the same 'family' which> provide> > equal> > > or greater concentrations of all the nutrients. So even if> the> > pet> > > food carries this AAFCO food trial statement on its label,> you> > can> > > not be sure that specific product was actually tested in a> food> > > trial. In addition, testing a food for six months is not an> > adequate> > > amount of time to determine if deficiencies or other long> term> > > effects may occur after feeding the product a year or more.> > Despite> > > these problems with the interpretation of this AAFCO food> trial> > > statement, having the statement on a pet food label at least> > shows> > > the company has made some attempt to develop a good food.> > >> > > Feeding instructions> > >> > > Feeding instructions or guidelines are included on most every> bag> > > and most cans of pet foods. These guidelines give the> recommended> > > amount to be fed based on growth level and weight. I would> remind> > > owners that these are very rough guidelines. Every animal has> a> > > different level of activity, metabolism, and ambient> > environmental> > > temperature. In addition, breed, age, and other environmental> > > stresses all impact daily requirements. I encourage you to> use> > these> > > guidelines as rough starting points. If your animal is thin> or> > > hungry, feed it more often and in greater quantity. If your> pet> > is> > > obese, feed it less. I cannot begin to count the number of> > clients> > > that have complained of a hungry, thin, or obese dog and> after> > being> > > questioned about it found that they were feeding the> recommended> > > amount on the bag and were afraid to deviate from it. This is> an> > > area where common sense is much more important than science.> > >> > > Summary> > >> > > One of the most common questions that I get is what is the> best> > pet> > > food on the market? I can honestly say that there is not one.> The> > > very fact that there are so many types and brands on the> market> > > shows that there are hundreds of options and opinions. Some> dogs> > > need higher fat and protein than others. Feed what is> appropriate> > > for your pet: puppies need puppy food and cats need cat food.> Do> > not> > > switch brands every month, but do not be afraid to switch> brands> > and> > > find one that your pet does well on. I have seen medical> problems> > > from dogs fed the cheaper generic foods, and some farm store> and> > > department store brands. If you are feeding a pet food that> can> > only> > > be purchased from a veterinarian, read the label closely and> then> > > compare it to some of the premium brands on the market. Then> > check> > > the price. You may be in for a big surprise! You do not> always> > get> > > what you pay for.> > >> > > The other question I get is, 'what do I feed my pets?' I can> tell> > > you that I feed my dog a premium national brand that is> chicken> > and> > > rice and sells for around 73 cents a pound. I feed my cats a> > premium> > > brand that is formulated to help reduce cystitis and urinary> > > problems, which sells for twice of what my dog food costs,> but my> > > cats eat very little and do great on it. I always feed dry> food> > and> > > free choice. Feeding table scraps and treats have to be> > considered> > > in the overall diet and are discussed more thoroughly in> their> > > separate articles.> > >> > >> > > References and Further Reading> > >> > >> > > Palika, L. The Consumer's Guide To Dog Food. Howell Book> House of> > > Simon & Schuster/Macmillan Company. New York, NY; 1996.> > >> > > Ralston Purina Company. Nutrition and Management of Dogs and> > Cats.> > > St. Louis, MO; 1987.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Pam> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following:> > > 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.> > > 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using> any> > natural remedy.> > > 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own> > physician and to> > > prescribe for your own health.> > > We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post> here> > as long as> > > they behave themselves.> > > Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that,> and> > any person> > > following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their> own> > risk.> > > It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or> > products from list members, you are agreeing to> > > be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List> Owner> > and members free of any liability.> > >> > > Dr. Ian Shillington> > > Doctor of Naturopathy> > > Dr.IanShillington@G...> > >> > >> > >

May 6, 2004

And the MSM. The volumes are also different. More proteins rather than grasses and such.

Zeb

-

pam

herbal remedies

Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:58 PM

Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

So basically it is the same as TN except for the garlic?Pamherbal remedies , <zeb@A...> wrote:> Hmmmm.... There are 16 ingredients. I can't remember them all but I can tell you garlic is in it as well as everything you'd need as far as grasses and such go. Nutritional yeast, spirullina, chlorella, MSM, Purple Dulse, Beet Root, Astragalus, Wheat grass, Barley Grass, Alfalfa Grass, Rose hips, lemon, orange peel, Spinach Leaf and Garlic. I think that's it.> > Zeb> - > pam > herbal remedies > Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:57 PM> Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels> > > > What are the ingredients in the Pet Total Nutrition ???> Pam> > > > > herbal remedies , <zeb@A...> wrote:> > Caroline,> > > > Good idea. Just throw in the entire egg. I had let the total > tonic mash slip off my list. It's back. Good. The total Pet > Nutrition is what I'd put in it. Exactly.> > > > Zeb> > - > > Caroline > > herbal remedies > > Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:57 PM> > Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels> > > > > > Zeb,> > > > Why not add some of the Total Tonic mash as well. And even a > proportion to serving ratio of Total Nutrition. Those would be > great for every day maintenance for dogs as well don't you think?> > > > Also, don't forget eggs and even egg shells. > > > > Caroline> > - > > zeb@A... > > herbal remedies > > Wednesday, May 05, 2004 6:43 PM> > Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels> > > > > > Exactly. Something like a whole chicken through a grinder, > some different grasses and herbs that dogs naturally eat in the > wild. find the most common ones. Maybe some kind of catnip or > whatever dogs use for dognip (ha ha ha). Sprout some brown rice as > the filler if anything rather than wheat. Or better yet some wild > rice which is actually in the grass family. Add fresh garlic > cloves, carrots, some beets, spinach leaf maybe etc. Stuff like > that. Then grind it all up. All Raw. Then dehydrate at or below > 105 degrees. Add some of the UDO's Pet Oil. Throw in a tiny bit of > rose hips. Something like that.> > > > Mix some eggs in as well and you have your thingy. For cats > it has to be far more protein based. I think this would do it. You > have two choices. Freeze it on packets so they can be thawed and > mixed with a bit of hot water or dehydrate and vacuum seal.> > > > That's what I'm gonna try at least.> > > > Zeb> > - > > Sylvia > > herbal remedies > > Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:39 PM> > Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels> > > > > > So it would be dehydrated meat then LOL?????> > (and maybe some vitamins tossed in)> > > > I have read much recently on dogs and cats being allergic to > wheat, > > so having a product that does not contain wheat might be > good, > > although perhaps sprouted wheat might work.> > > > The pet food we switched to has less grain in it and more > meat and > > bone meals. Last week there was much talk about raw meat > and bones > > and so something dehydrated with ground meat, bone and > supplements > > would be cool.> > > > I have found that my dog really enjoys veggies, and so we > give them > > to him often (both cooked and raw) Perhaps that could be > added to the > > mix. We had recently been discussing a mix we could make > for our > > puppy and dehyrating or baking, so i really like this idea> > > > Sylvia> > > > In herbal remedies , <zeb@A...> wrote:> > > Pam,> > > > > > Thank you very much. I have been working with Doc in > trying to > > come up with a Raw dehydrated pet food that was ALL organic > and only > > what dogs need not what we "think" they need. If anyone has > > suggestions or know of studies regarding dog and cat foods > please let > > me know.> > > > > > Love,,> > > Zeb> > > - > > > pam > > > herbal remedies > > > Tuesday, May 04, 2004 12:10 AM> > > Herbal Remedies - dog food labels> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?> > cls=2 & cat=1661 & articleid=668> > > > > > > > > Dog Food Labels> > > Veterinary & Aquatic Services Department, Drs. Foster & > Smith, > > Inc. > > > > > > > > > Q. What do dog food labels mean?> > > > > > A. Reading your pet food label is one of the best ways > to > > determine > > > the quality of the food you are feeding. The ingredients > and the > > > guaranteed analysis (amounts of protein, fat, > carbohydrates, > > fiber, > > > and other nutrients) are included on the food label. In > addition > > to > > > providing information about the amount and quality of > protein and > > > fat, the label will also alert you of any unwanted > preservatives > > and > > > give general feeding guidelines. > > > A few other things to consider are the price. Calculate > out the > > > price per pound or the price per day. Almost always, dry > food is > > > more economical, and the larger the bag the lower the > price per > > > pound. Many times, a 40-pound bag is less than half as > much per > > > pound than an equivalent 5-pound bag. Remember that with > lower > > > quality foods you feed more and it may not always be > cheaper. On > > the > > > other hand, some of the higher priced foods, especially > foods > > sold > > > only through veterinarians, may not be as good as the > less > > expensive > > > more easily obtainable food. Check the ingredients, they > will > > tell > > > the real story. Most pets do not need specialty foods, > just > > quality > > > food. By understanding this article and looking at a few > pet food > > > labels you will be able to find the best food for your > pet.> > > > > > Converting dry matter basis> > > > > > This can be the hard part. All pet foods have different > levels of > > > moisture. Canned foods can have up to 80% moisture > whereas, some > > dry > > > foods can have as little as 6%. This is important for 2 > reasons. > > The > > > first is that the food is priced by the pound, and when > you buy > > dog > > > food that is 80% water you get 20% food and the rest is > water. So > > > the amount of food your pet consumes is small and > expensive. The > > > other reason for understanding percent moisture is to > help you > > > compare crude protein and fat between brands and between > canned > > and > > > dry. The listings on the label are for the food as it > is, not as > > it > > > would be on a dry matter basis. So without converting > both brands > > of > > > food to a dry matter basis you will not be able to > compare them > > > accurately. Fortunately, the conversion is not that > complicated.> > > > > > If a dry dog food has 10% moisture we know that it has > 90% dry > > > matter. So we look at the label and check the protein > level that > > > reads 20%. Next, we divide the 20 percent protein by the > 90% dry > > > matter and we get 22%, which is the amount of protein on > a dry > > > matter basis. Does this make sense so far? Good. Now let > us > > compare > > > this to canned food that has 80% moisture. We know that > with 80% > > > moisture we have 20% dry matter. The label shows 5% > protein. So > > we > > > take the 5% and divide it by 20% and we get 25% protein > on a dry > > > matter basis. So the canned food has more protein per > pound on a > > dry > > > matter basis after all the water is taken out. We can do > the same > > > for fat, fiber, etc.> > > > > > Guaranteed analysis> > > > > > The guaranteed analysis on the information panel of the > dog food > > > label lists the minimum levels of crude protein and fat > and the > > > maximum levels of fiber and water. The protein and fat > are listed > > as > > > crude sources and not as digestible sources. The > digestibility of > > > protein and fat can vary widely depending on their > sources. The > > list > > > of ingredients should be examined closely to determine > how > > > digestible the sources are (see articles on protein and > fat for > > more > > > explanation). The other factor in determining actual > protein and > > fat > > > percentages is the amount of moisture present in the > food as > > > discussed earlier. While the guaranteed analysis is a > start in > > > understanding the quality of the food, be very careful > about > > relying > > > on it too much. A pet food manufacturer made a mock > product that > > had > > > a guaranteed analysis of 10% protein, 6.5% fat, 2.4% > fiber, and > > 68% > > > moisture, similar to what you see on many canned pet > food labels. > > > The only problem, was that the ingredients were old > leather work > > > boots, used motor oil, crushed coal, and water!> > > > > > Ingredient list> > > > > > All pet foods must list the ingredients present in the > food. The > > > ingredients must be listed in order of weight. This is > one of the > > > best ways to determine the quality of the food. With a > little > > > knowledge of the ingredients, you can choose a food that > is > > highly > > > digestible and free of unwanted products. Be careful of > one > > tactic > > > used by manufacturers to disguise less desirable > ingredients. > > > Breaking an ingredient into several different smaller > ingredients > > > and listing them individually is used to lower these > undesirable > > > ingredients farther down the ingredient list. For > example, a > > product > > > list could contain chicken, ground corn, corn gluten, > ground > > wheat, > > > corn bran, wheat flour, wheat middling, etc. If we were > to group > > all > > > of the corn ingredients as one, they would probably far > out-weigh > > > the amount of chicken, and wheat. As a consumer, you > must read > > all > > > of the ingredients carefully including the ingredients > at the > > end, > > > to know the type of preservatives and colorings that are > used. I > > > have listed a few of the more common ingredients and > their > > > definitions.> > > > > > Meat: Meat is the clean flesh of slaughtered animals > (chicken, > > > cattle, lamb, turkey, etc.). The flesh can include > striated > > skeletal > > > muscle, tongue, diaphragm, heart, esophagus, overlying > fat and > > the > > > skin, sinew, nerves and blood vessels normally found > with that > > flesh.> > > > > > Meat By-products: Meat by-products are clean parts of > slaughtered > > > animals, not including meat. These include lungs, > spleen, > > kidneys, > > > brain, liver, blood, bone, and stomach and intestines > freed of > > their > > > contents. It does not include hair, horns, teeth, or > hooves.> > > > > > Poultry By-products: Poultry by-products are clean parts > of > > > slaughtered poultry such as heads, feet, and internal > organs > > (like > > > heart, lungs, liver, kidneys, abdomen, and intestines). > It does > > not > > > contain feathers.> > > > > > Fish Meal: Fish meal is the clean ground tissue of > undecomposed > > > whole fish or fish cuttings, with or without the oil > extracted.> > > > > > Beef Tallow: Beef tallow is fat derived from beef.> > > > > > Ground Corn: Ground corn is the entire corn kernel > ground or > > chopped.> > > > > > Corn Gluten Meal: Corn gluten meal is the by-product > after the > > > manufacture of corn syrup or starch, and is the dried > residue > > after > > > the removal of the bran, germ, and starch.> > > > > > Brewers Rice: Brewers rice is the small fragments of > rice kernels > > > that have been separated from larger kernels of milled > rice.> > > > > > Brown Rice: Brown rice is the unpolished rice left over > after the > > > kernels have been removed.> > > > > > Soybean Meal: Soybean meal is a by-product of the > production of > > > soybean oil.> > > > > > BHA: BHA is butylated hydroxyanisole, a fat preservative.> > > > > > Ethoxyquin: Ethoxyquin is a chemical preservative that > is used to > > > prevent spoilage in dog food.> > > > > > Tocopherols: Tocopherols (e.g., vitamin E) are naturally > > occurring > > > compounds used as natural preservatives.> > > > > > The AAFCO standards> > > > > > 'AAFCO' stands for the Association of American Feed > Control > > > Officials. The AAFCO develops guidelines for the > production, > > > labeling, and sale of animal foods. These are called the > AAFCO > > > standards. AAFCO has developed two standards which pet > foods > > should > > > meet. Pet foods which meet the AAFCO's requirements will > include > > one > > > of two statements on their label.> > > > > > The first and lower standard states 'formulated to meet > AAFCO's > > > nutrient requirement.' This means the food was tested in > the > > > laboratory and was found to have the recommended amounts > of > > protein, > > > fat, etc. But as mentioned above, the combination of > shoe > > leather, > > > used motor oil, and coal would meet this standard.> > > > > > The second standard states something like 'animal-> feeding tests > > > using AAFCO's procedures substantiate that this product > provides > > > complete and balanced nutrition.' For a pet food to be > able to > > carry > > > this label, it had to be tested on a population of > animals for > > six > > > months and shown to provide adequate nutrition. But even > with > > this > > > statement, there are problems with its interpretation. > If one > > > particular product in a manufacturer's line was tested > and found > > to > > > meet this standard, the company is allowed to include > this same > > > statement on other products in the same 'family' which > provide > > equal > > > or greater concentrations of all the nutrients. So even > if the > > pet > > > food carries this AAFCO food trial statement on its > label, you > > can > > > not be sure that specific product was actually tested in > a food > > > trial. In addition, testing a food for six months is not > an > > adequate > > > amount of time to determine if deficiencies or other > long term > > > effects may occur after feeding the product a year or > more. > > Despite > > > these problems with the interpretation of this AAFCO > food trial > > > statement, having the statement on a pet food label at > least > > shows > > > the company has made some attempt to develop a good food.> > > > > > Feeding instructions> > > > > > Feeding instructions or guidelines are included on most > every bag > > > and most cans of pet foods. These guidelines give the > recommended > > > amount to be fed based on growth level and weight. I > would remind > > > owners that these are very rough guidelines. Every > animal has a > > > different level of activity, metabolism, and ambient > > environmental > > > temperature. In addition, breed, age, and other > environmental > > > stresses all impact daily requirements. I encourage you > to use > > these > > > guidelines as rough starting points. If your animal is > thin or > > > hungry, feed it more often and in greater quantity. If > your pet > > is > > > obese, feed it less. I cannot begin to count the number > of > > clients > > > that have complained of a hungry, thin, or obese dog and > after > > being > > > questioned about it found that they were feeding the > recommended > > > amount on the bag and were afraid to deviate from it. > This is an > > > area where common sense is much more important than > science.> > > > > > Summary> > > > > > One of the most common questions that I get is what is > the best > > pet > > > food on the market? I can honestly say that there is not > one. The > > > very fact that there are so many types and brands on the > market > > > shows that there are hundreds of options and opinions. > Some dogs > > > need higher fat and protein than others. Feed what is > appropriate > > > for your pet: puppies need puppy food and cats need cat > food. Do > > not > > > switch brands every month, but do not be afraid to > switch brands > > and > > > find one that your pet does well on. I have seen medical > problems > > > from dogs fed the cheaper generic foods, and some farm > store and > > > department store brands. If you are feeding a pet food > that can > > only > > > be purchased from a veterinarian, read the label closely > and then > > > compare it to some of the premium brands on the market. > Then > > check > > > the price. You may be in for a big surprise! You do not > always > > get > > > what you pay for.> > > > > > The other question I get is, 'what do I feed my pets?' I > can tell > > > you that I feed my dog a premium national brand that is > chicken > > and > > > rice and sells for around 73 cents a pound. I feed my > cats a > > premium > > > brand that is formulated to help reduce cystitis and > urinary > > > problems, which sells for twice of what my dog food > costs, but my > > > cats eat very little and do great on it. I always feed > dry food > > and > > > free choice. Feeding table scraps and treats have to be > > considered > > > in the overall diet and are discussed more thoroughly in > their > > > separate articles.> > > > > > > > > References and Further Reading> > > > > > > > > Palika, L. The Consumer's Guide To Dog Food. Howell Book > House of > > > Simon & Schuster/Macmillan Company. New York, NY; 1996.> > > > > > Ralston Purina Company. Nutrition and Management of Dogs > and > > Cats. > > > St. Louis, MO; 1987.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pam> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: > > > 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. > > > 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before > using any > > natural remedy. > > > 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your > own > > physician and to> > > prescribe for your own health. > > > We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to > post here > > as long as > > > they behave themselves. > > > Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly > that, and > > any person > > > following the advice of anyone posting here does so at > their own > > risk. > > > It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting > advice or > > products from list members, you are agreeing to > > > be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the > List Owner > > and members free of any liability. > > > > > > Dr. Ian Shillington> > > Doctor of Naturopathy> > > Dr.IanShillington@G... > > > > > > > > >

May 6, 2004

Wow. They'll eat even more when fully grown. Ouch!.

Zeb

-

Candace Podratz

herbal remedies

Thursday, May 06, 2004 12:23 AM

Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

I have two pups (a black lab and a golden retriever) that are 7 months oldand both eat their body weight in food each day!!!!- "pam" <peetee1965<herbal remedies >Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:16 PMRe: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels> I've never stopped to figure that out. I love my pooch dearly and I> don't care about the cost. On the other hand she isn't quite five> pounds so I spend far less than a big dog mom.> Pam>> herbal remedies , "Candace Podratz"> <CandaceAndBrock@w...> wrote:> > WOW how much do you guys pay to feed your animals, $350/month?> > : O> > - > > zeb@A...> > herbal remedies > > Wednesday, May 05, 2004 5:43 PM> > Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels> >> >> > Exactly. Something like a whole chicken through a grinder, some> different grasses and herbs that dogs naturally eat in the wild.> find the most common ones. Maybe some kind of catnip or whatever> dogs use for dognip (ha ha ha). Sprout some brown rice as the> filler if anything rather than wheat. Or better yet some wild rice> which is actually in the grass family. Add fresh garlic cloves,> carrots, some beets, spinach leaf maybe etc. Stuff like that. Then> grind it all up. All Raw. Then dehydrate at or below 105 degrees.> Add some of the UDO's Pet Oil. Throw in a tiny bit of rose hips.> Something like that.> >> > Mix some eggs in as well and you have your thingy. For cats it> has to be far more protein based. I think this would do it. You> have two choices. Freeze it on packets so they can be thawed and> mixed with a bit of hot water or dehydrate and vacuum seal.> >> > That's what I'm gonna try at least.> >> > Zeb> > - > > Sylvia> > herbal remedies > > Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:39 PM> > Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels> >> >> > So it would be dehydrated meat then LOL?????> > (and maybe some vitamins tossed in)> >> > I have read much recently on dogs and cats being allergic to> wheat,> > so having a product that does not contain wheat might be good,> > although perhaps sprouted wheat might work.> >> > The pet food we switched to has less grain in it and more meat> and> > bone meals. Last week there was much talk about raw meat and> bones> > and so something dehydrated with ground meat, bone and> supplements> > would be cool.> >> > I have found that my dog really enjoys veggies, and so we give> them> > to him often (both cooked and raw) Perhaps that could be added> to the> > mix. We had recently been discussing a mix we could make for> our> > puppy and dehyrating or baking, so i really like this idea> >> > Sylvia> >> > In herbal remedies , <zeb@A...> wrote:> > > Pam,> > >> > > Thank you very much. I have been working with Doc in> trying to> > come up with a Raw dehydrated pet food that was ALL organic> and only> > what dogs need not what we "think" they need. If anyone has> > suggestions or know of studies regarding dog and cat foods> please let> > me know.> > >> > > Love,,> > > Zeb> > > - > > > pam> > > herbal remedies > > > Tuesday, May 04, 2004 12:10 AM> > > Herbal Remedies - dog food labels> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?> > cls=2 & cat=1661 & articleid=668> > >> > >> > > Dog Food Labels> > > Veterinary & Aquatic Services Department, Drs. Foster & > Smith,> > Inc.> > >> > >> > > Q. What do dog food labels mean?> > >> > > A. Reading your pet food label is one of the best ways to> > determine> > > the quality of the food you are feeding. The ingredients> and the> > > guaranteed analysis (amounts of protein, fat,> carbohydrates,> > fiber,> > > and other nutrients) are included on the food label. In> addition> > to> > > providing information about the amount and quality of> protein and> > > fat, the label will also alert you of any unwanted> preservatives> > and> > > give general feeding guidelines.> > > A few other things to consider are the price. Calculate> out the> > > price per pound or the price per day. Almost always, dry> food is> > > more economical, and the larger the bag the lower the> price per> > > pound. Many times, a 40-pound bag is less than half as> much per> > > pound than an equivalent 5-pound bag. Remember that with> lower> > > quality foods you feed more and it may not always be> cheaper. On> > the> > > other hand, some of the higher priced foods, especially> foods> > sold> > > only through veterinarians, may not be as good as the less> > expensive> > > more easily obtainable food. Check the ingredients, they> will> > tell> > > the real story. Most pets do not need specialty foods,> just> > quality> > > food. By understanding this article and looking at a few> pet food> > > labels you will be able to find the best food for your pet.> > >> > > Converting dry matter basis> > >> > > This can be the hard part. All pet foods have different> levels of> > > moisture. Canned foods can have up to 80% moisture> whereas, some> > dry> > > foods can have as little as 6%. This is important for 2> reasons.> > The> > > first is that the food is priced by the pound, and when> you buy> > dog> > > food that is 80% water you get 20% food and the rest is> water. So> > > the amount of food your pet consumes is small and> expensive. The> > > other reason for understanding percent moisture is to help> you> > > compare crude protein and fat between brands and between> canned> > and> > > dry. The listings on the label are for the food as it is,> not as> > it> > > would be on a dry matter basis. So without converting both> brands> > of> > > food to a dry matter basis you will not be able to compare> them> > > accurately. Fortunately, the conversion is not that> complicated.> > >> > > If a dry dog food has 10% moisture we know that it has 90%> dry> > > matter. So we look at the label and check the protein> level that> > > reads 20%. Next, we divide the 20 percent protein by the> 90% dry> > > matter and we get 22%, which is the amount of protein on a> dry> > > matter basis. Does this make sense so far? Good. Now let> us> > compare> > > this to canned food that has 80% moisture. We know that> with 80%> > > moisture we have 20% dry matter. The label shows 5%> protein. So> > we> > > take the 5% and divide it by 20% and we get 25% protein on> a dry> > > matter basis. So the canned food has more protein per> pound on a> > dry> > > matter basis after all the water is taken out. We can do> the same> > > for fat, fiber, etc.> > >> > > Guaranteed analysis> > >> > > The guaranteed analysis on the information panel of the> dog food> > > label lists the minimum levels of crude protein and fat> and the> > > maximum levels of fiber and water. The protein and fat are> listed> > as> > > crude sources and not as digestible sources. The> digestibility of> > > protein and fat can vary widely depending on their> sources. The> > list> > > of ingredients should be examined closely to determine how> > > digestible the sources are (see articles on protein and> fat for> > more> > > explanation). The other factor in determining actual> protein and> > fat> > > percentages is the amount of moisture present in the food> as> > > discussed earlier. While the guaranteed analysis is a> start in> > > understanding the quality of the food, be very careful> about> > relying> > > on it too much. A pet food manufacturer made a mock> product that> > had> > > a guaranteed analysis of 10% protein, 6.5% fat, 2.4%> fiber, and> > 68%> > > moisture, similar to what you see on many canned pet food> labels.> > > The only problem, was that the ingredients were old> leather work> > > boots, used motor oil, crushed coal, and water!> > >> > > Ingredient list> > >> > > All pet foods must list the ingredients present in the> food. The> > > ingredients must be listed in order of weight. This is one> of the> > > best ways to determine the quality of the food. With a> little> > > knowledge of the ingredients, you can choose a food that> is> > highly> > > digestible and free of unwanted products. Be careful of> one> > tactic> > > used by manufacturers to disguise less desirable> ingredients.> > > Breaking an ingredient into several different smaller> ingredients> > > and listing them individually is used to lower these> undesirable> > > ingredients farther down the ingredient list. For example,> a> > product> > > list could contain chicken, ground corn, corn gluten,> ground> > wheat,> > > corn bran, wheat flour, wheat middling, etc. If we were to> group> > all> > > of the corn ingredients as one, they would probably far> out-weigh> > > the amount of chicken, and wheat. As a consumer, you must> read> > all> > > of the ingredients carefully including the ingredients at> the> > end,> > > to know the type of preservatives and colorings that are> used. I> > > have listed a few of the more common ingredients and their> > > definitions.> > >> > > Meat: Meat is the clean flesh of slaughtered animals> (chicken,> > > cattle, lamb, turkey, etc.). The flesh can include> striated> > skeletal> > > muscle, tongue, diaphragm, heart, esophagus, overlying fat> and> > the> > > skin, sinew, nerves and blood vessels normally found with> that> > flesh.> > >> > > Meat By-products: Meat by-products are clean parts of> slaughtered> > > animals, not including meat. These include lungs, spleen,> > kidneys,> > > brain, liver, blood, bone, and stomach and intestines> freed of> > their> > > contents. It does not include hair, horns, teeth, or> hooves.> > >> > > Poultry By-products: Poultry by-products are clean parts> of> > > slaughtered poultry such as heads, feet, and internal> organs> > (like> > > heart, lungs, liver, kidneys, abdomen, and intestines). It> does> > not> > > contain feathers.> > >> > > Fish Meal: Fish meal is the clean ground tissue of> undecomposed> > > whole fish or fish cuttings, with or without the oil> extracted.> > >> > > Beef Tallow: Beef tallow is fat derived from beef.> > >> > > Ground Corn: Ground corn is the entire corn kernel ground> or> > chopped.> > >> > > Corn Gluten Meal: Corn gluten meal is the by-product after> the> > > manufacture of corn syrup or starch, and is the dried> residue> > after> > > the removal of the bran, germ, and starch.> > >> > > Brewers Rice: Brewers rice is the small fragments of rice> kernels> > > that have been separated from larger kernels of milled> rice.> > >> > > Brown Rice: Brown rice is the unpolished rice left over> after the> > > kernels have been removed.> > >> > > Soybean Meal: Soybean meal is a by-product of the> production of> > > soybean oil.> > >> > > BHA: BHA is butylated hydroxyanisole, a fat preservative.> > >> > > Ethoxyquin: Ethoxyquin is a chemical preservative that is> used to> > > prevent spoilage in dog food.> > >> > > Tocopherols: Tocopherols (e.g., vitamin E) are naturally> > occurring> > > compounds used as natural preservatives.> > >> > > The AAFCO standards> > >> > > 'AAFCO' stands for the Association of American Feed> Control> > > Officials. The AAFCO develops guidelines for the> production,> > > labeling, and sale of animal foods. These are called the> AAFCO> > > standards. AAFCO has developed two standards which pet> foods> > should> > > meet. Pet foods which meet the AAFCO's requirements will> include> > one> > > of two statements on their label.> > >> > > The first and lower standard states 'formulated to meet> AAFCO's> > > nutrient requirement.' This means the food was tested in> the> > > laboratory and was found to have the recommended amounts> of> > protein,> > > fat, etc. But as mentioned above, the combination of shoe> > leather,> > > used motor oil, and coal would meet this standard.> > >> > > The second standard states something like 'animal-feeding> tests> > > using AAFCO's procedures substantiate that this product> provides> > > complete and balanced nutrition.' For a pet food to be> able to> > carry> > > this label, it had to be tested on a population of animals> for> > six> > > months and shown to provide adequate nutrition. But even> with> > this> > > statement, there are problems with its interpretation. If> one> > > particular product in a manufacturer's line was tested and> found> > to> > > meet this standard, the company is allowed to include this> same> > > statement on other products in the same 'family' which> provide> > equal> > > or greater concentrations of all the nutrients. So even if> the> > pet> > > food carries this AAFCO food trial statement on its label,> you> > can> > > not be sure that specific product was actually tested in a> food> > > trial. In addition, testing a food for six months is not> an> > adequate> > > amount of time to determine if deficiencies or other long> term> > > effects may occur after feeding the product a year or> more.> > Despite> > > these problems with the interpretation of this AAFCO food> trial> > > statement, having the statement on a pet food label at> least> > shows> > > the company has made some attempt to develop a good food.> > >> > > Feeding instructions> > >> > > Feeding instructions or guidelines are included on most> every bag> > > and most cans of pet foods. These guidelines give the> recommended> > > amount to be fed based on growth level and weight. I would> remind> > > owners that these are very rough guidelines. Every animal> has a> > > different level of activity, metabolism, and ambient> > environmental> > > temperature. In addition, breed, age, and other> environmental> > > stresses all impact daily requirements. I encourage you to> use> > these> > > guidelines as rough starting points. If your animal is> thin or> > > hungry, feed it more often and in greater quantity. If> your pet> > is> > > obese, feed it less. I cannot begin to count the number of> > clients> > > that have complained of a hungry, thin, or obese dog and> after> > being> > > questioned about it found that they were feeding the> recommended> > > amount on the bag and were afraid to deviate from it. This> is an> > > area where common sense is much more important than> science.> > >> > > Summary> > >> > > One of the most common questions that I get is what is the> best> > pet> > > food on the market? I can honestly say that there is not> one. The> > > very fact that there are so many types and brands on the> market> > > shows that there are hundreds of options and opinions.> Some dogs> > > need higher fat and protein than others. Feed what is> appropriate> > > for your pet: puppies need puppy food and cats need cat> food. Do> > not> > > switch brands every month, but do not be afraid to switch> brands> > and> > > find one that your pet does well on. I have seen medical> problems> > > from dogs fed the cheaper generic foods, and some farm> store and> > > department store brands. If you are feeding a pet food> that can> > only> > > be purchased from a veterinarian, read the label closely> and then> > > compare it to some of the premium brands on the market.> Then> > check> > > the price. You may be in for a big surprise! You do not> always> > get> > > what you pay for.> > >> > > The other question I get is, 'what do I feed my pets?' I> can tell> > > you that I feed my dog a premium national brand that is> chicken> > and> > > rice and sells for around 73 cents a pound. I feed my cats> a> > premium> > > brand that is formulated to help reduce cystitis and> urinary> > > problems, which sells for twice of what my dog food costs,> but my> > > cats eat very little and do great on it. I always feed dry> food> > and> > > free choice. Feeding table scraps and treats have to be> > considered> > > in the overall diet and are discussed more thoroughly in> their> > > separate articles.> > >> > >> > > References and Further Reading> > >> > >> > > Palika, L. The Consumer's Guide To Dog Food. Howell Book> House of> > > Simon & Schuster/Macmillan Company. New York, NY; 1996.> > >> > > Ralston Purina Company. Nutrition and Management of Dogs> and> > Cats.> > > St. Louis, MO; 1987.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Pam> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following:> > > 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.> > > 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before> using any> > natural remedy.> > > 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your> own> > physician and to> > > prescribe for your own health.> > > We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to> post here> > as long as> > > they behave themselves.> > > Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly> that, and> > any person> > > following the advice of anyone posting here does so at> their own> > risk.> > > It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice> or> > products from list members, you are agreeing to> > > be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the> List Owner> > and members free of any liability.> > >> > > Dr. Ian Shillington> > > Doctor of Naturopathy> > > Dr.IanShillington@G...> > >> > >> > >

May 6, 2004

I know that love. And your right until they are 1 year old they will always seem to be eating.

Love,

Zeb

-

Candace Podratz

herbal remedies

Thursday, May 06, 2004 1:03 AM

Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

I'm exagerating, but it seems like they're always eating!- "pam" <peetee1965<herbal remedies >Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:33 PMRe: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels> Wow, are you serious ?> That's toooooo much.> Pam>>>> ---------------http://www.raw-> dogs.com/content.html> http://home.att.net/~wdcusick/main.html> excellent pet food sight> ->> FEEDING DIRECTIONS: A 20 POUND DOG will eat approximately 15oz. per> day. You may increase the quantity fed to larger dogs by an> additional 15oz. per day for every 25 pounds of body weight.> Your dog has individual nutritional needs, depending upon their> current health, sex, age, activity levels and climate. Feed at room> temperature and always provide fresh, clean water for your dogs.> PREGNANT & NURSING DOGS: Feed 2-4 times the adult requirement per> day.>> ------------------------------->>>>>>> Daily Caloric Requirements for Adult Dogs> These figures are calculated for an average, moderately active adult> dog that lives in a thermoneutral environment. Less active dogs> require considerably fewer calories. Extremes in temperature,> illness, or physical activity (such as racing or hunting) can> increase the daily caloric need by 300 percent or more.>>> lb kcal lb kcal lb kcal>> 5 231 60 1489 115 2426> 10 389 65 1581 120 2504> 15 526 70 1672 125 2582> 20 653 75 1760 130 2660> 25 772 80 1848 135 2736> 30 886 85 1934 140 2811> 35 994 90 2019 145 2887> 40 1009 95 2102 150 2961> 45 1200 100 2184 155 3034> 50 1299 105 2266 160 3108> 55 1395 110 2346 165 3180>> Source: Data calculated from Waltham Centre for Pet Nutrition (WCPN)> recommendations>> ================================>> Protein Needs Of The Aging Dog>>> Dog owners sometimes ask at just what age a dog is considered old.> Aging is very individual and depends on breed, genetics, individual> metabolism, care and nutrition. However, seven years is widely used> to define the older dog. Perhaps this is because age-related> diseases begin to appear and metabolic changes associated with aging> become evident around this age. Protein is used by the body to> support many functions including a strong immune system as well as> strong muscles and healthy skin.>> The need for more protein in an older dog's diet contradicts a> belief held by some dog owners that older dogs should be fed less> protein than younger dogs. Perhaps this belief resulted from the> association of protein with kidney failure. Once kidney failure is> in advanced stages, protein restriction is recommended to help> alleviate some of the problems associated with this condition.>> The truth is, research from several leading veterinary hospitals> shows there is no evidence to indicate that protein at an> appropriate level for a nutritionally complete and balanced diet> causes kidney damage in dogs.>> Research indicating that older animals have increased protein needs> has been going on since the 1950s. One study in the 1960s showed> healthy geriatric dogs needed about 50 percent more protein than> young adult dogs in order to maintain protein reserves. These> reserves are needed to support the immune system, especially during> times of stress. Significant research during the 1980s and 1990s> focused on defining maximum safe levels of protein for older dogs.>>>> One of the changes that occurs, but is not readily apparent, is that> older dogs can become less efficient in metabolizing protein than> young dogs. Consequently, older dogs require more protein than young> adult dogs.>>>>>> herbal remedies , "Candace Podratz"> <CandaceAndBrock@w...> wrote:> > I have two pups (a black lab and a golden retriever) that are 7> months old> > and both eat their body weight in food each day!!!!> >> >> > - > > "pam" <peetee1965@h...>> > <herbal remedies >> > Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:16 PM> > Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels> >> >> > > I've never stopped to figure that out. I love my pooch dearly> and I> > > don't care about the cost. On the other hand she isn't quite> five> > > pounds so I spend far less than a big dog mom.> > > Pam> > >> > > herbal remedies , "Candace Podratz"> > > <CandaceAndBrock@w...> wrote:> > > > WOW how much do you guys pay to feed your animals, $350/month?> > > > : O> > > > - > > > > zeb@A...> > > > herbal remedies > > > > Wednesday, May 05, 2004 5:43 PM> > > > Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels> > > >> > > >> > > > Exactly. Something like a whole chicken through a grinder,> some> > > different grasses and herbs that dogs naturally eat in the wild.> > > find the most common ones. Maybe some kind of catnip or whatever> > > dogs use for dognip (ha ha ha). Sprout some brown rice as the> > > filler if anything rather than wheat. Or better yet some wild> rice> > > which is actually in the grass family. Add fresh garlic cloves,> > > carrots, some beets, spinach leaf maybe etc. Stuff like that.> Then> > > grind it all up. All Raw. Then dehydrate at or below 105> degrees.> > > Add some of the UDO's Pet Oil. Throw in a tiny bit of rose hips.> > > Something like that.> > > >> > > > Mix some eggs in as well and you have your thingy. For cats> it> > > has to be far more protein based. I think this would do it. You> > > have two choices. Freeze it on packets so they can be thawed and> > > mixed with a bit of hot water or dehydrate and vacuum seal.> > > >> > > > That's what I'm gonna try at least.> > > >> > > > Zeb> > > > - > > > > Sylvia> > > > herbal remedies > > > > Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:39 PM> > > > Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels> > > >> > > >> > > > So it would be dehydrated meat then LOL?????> > > > (and maybe some vitamins tossed in)> > > >> > > > I have read much recently on dogs and cats being allergic> to> > > wheat,> > > > so having a product that does not contain wheat might be> good,> > > > although perhaps sprouted wheat might work.> > > >> > > > The pet food we switched to has less grain in it and more> meat> > > and> > > > bone meals. Last week there was much talk about raw meat> and> > > bones> > > > and so something dehydrated with ground meat, bone and> > > supplements> > > > would be cool.> > > >> > > > I have found that my dog really enjoys veggies, and so we> give> > > them> > > > to him often (both cooked and raw) Perhaps that could be> added> > > to the> > > > mix. We had recently been discussing a mix we could make> for> > > our> > > > puppy and dehyrating or baking, so i really like this idea> > > >> > > > Sylvia> > > >> > > > In herbal remedies , <zeb@A...> wrote:> > > > > Pam,> > > > >> > > > > Thank you very much. I have been working with Doc in> > > trying to> > > > come up with a Raw dehydrated pet food that was ALL organic> > > and only> > > > what dogs need not what we "think" they need. If anyone> has> > > > suggestions or know of studies regarding dog and cat foods> > > please let> > > > me know.> > > > >> > > > > Love,,> > > > > Zeb> > > > > - > > > > > pam> > > > > herbal remedies > > > > > Tuesday, May 04, 2004 12:10 AM> > > > > Herbal Remedies - dog food labels> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?> > > > cls=2 & cat=1661 & articleid=668> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Dog Food Labels> > > > > Veterinary & Aquatic Services Department, Drs. Foster & > > > Smith,> > > > Inc.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Q. What do dog food labels mean?> > > > >> > > > > A. Reading your pet food label is one of the best ways> to> > > > determine> > > > > the quality of the food you are feeding. The> ingredients> > > and the> > > > > guaranteed analysis (amounts of protein, fat,> > > carbohydrates,> > > > fiber,> > > > > and other nutrients) are included on the food label. In> > > addition> > > > to> > > > > providing information about the amount and quality of> > > protein and> > > > > fat, the label will also alert you of any unwanted> > > preservatives> > > > and> > > > > give general feeding guidelines.> > > > > A few other things to consider are the price. Calculate> > > out the> > > > > price per pound or the price per day. Almost always,> dry> > > food is> > > > > more economical, and the larger the bag the lower the> > > price per> > > > > pound. Many times, a 40-pound bag is less than half as> > > much per> > > > > pound than an equivalent 5-pound bag. Remember that> with> > > lower> > > > > quality foods you feed more and it may not always be> > > cheaper. On> > > > the> > > > > other hand, some of the higher priced foods, especially> > > foods> > > > sold> > > > > only through veterinarians, may not be as good as the> less> > > > expensive> > > > > more easily obtainable food. Check the ingredients,> they> > > will> > > > tell> > > > > the real story. Most pets do not need specialty foods,> > > just> > > > quality> > > > > food. By understanding this article and looking at a> few> > > pet food> > > > > labels you will be able to find the best food for your> pet.> > > > >> > > > > Converting dry matter basis> > > > >> > > > > This can be the hard part. All pet foods have different> > > levels of> > > > > moisture. Canned foods can have up to 80% moisture> > > whereas, some> > > > dry> > > > > foods can have as little as 6%. This is important for 2> > > reasons.> > > > The> > > > > first is that the food is priced by the pound, and when> > > you buy> > > > dog> > > > > food that is 80% water you get 20% food and the rest is> > > water. So> > > > > the amount of food your pet consumes is small and> > > expensive. The> > > > > other reason for understanding percent moisture is to> help> > > you> > > > > compare crude protein and fat between brands and> between> > > canned> > > > and> > > > > dry. The listings on the label are for the food as it> is,> > > not as> > > > it> > > > > would be on a dry matter basis. So without converting> both> > > brands> > > > of> > > > > food to a dry matter basis you will not be able to> compare> > > them> > > > > accurately. Fortunately, the conversion is not that> > > complicated.> > > > >> > > > > If a dry dog food has 10% moisture we know that it has> 90%> > > dry> > > > > matter. So we look at the label and check the protein> > > level that> > > > > reads 20%. Next, we divide the 20 percent protein by> the> > > 90% dry> > > > > matter and we get 22%, which is the amount of protein> on a> > > dry> > > > > matter basis. Does this make sense so far? Good. Now> let> > > us> > > > compare> > > > > this to canned food that has 80% moisture. We know that> > > with 80%> > > > > moisture we have 20% dry matter. The label shows 5%> > > protein. So> > > > we> > > > > take the 5% and divide it by 20% and we get 25%> protein on> > > a dry> > > > > matter basis. So the canned food has more protein per> > > pound on a> > > > dry> > > > > matter basis after all the water is taken out. We can> do> > > the same> > > > > for fat, fiber, etc.> > > > >> > > > > Guaranteed analysis> > > > >> > > > > The guaranteed analysis on the information panel of the> > > dog food> > > > > label lists the minimum levels of crude protein and fat> > > and the> > > > > maximum levels of fiber and water. The protein and fat> are> > > listed> > > > as> > > > > crude sources and not as digestible sources. The> > > digestibility of> > > > > protein and fat can vary widely depending on their> > > sources. The> > > > list> > > > > of ingredients should be examined closely to determine> how> > > > > digestible the sources are (see articles on protein and> > > fat for> > > > more> > > > > explanation). The other factor in determining actual> > > protein and> > > > fat> > > > > percentages is the amount of moisture present in the> food> > > as> > > > > discussed earlier. While the guaranteed analysis is a> > > start in> > > > > understanding the quality of the food, be very careful> > > about> > > > relying> > > > > on it too much. A pet food manufacturer made a mock> > > product that> > > > had> > > > > a guaranteed analysis of 10% protein, 6.5% fat, 2.4%> > > fiber, and> > > > 68%> > > > > moisture, similar to what you see on many canned pet> food> > > labels.> > > > > The only problem, was that the ingredients were old> > > leather work> > > > > boots, used motor oil, crushed coal, and water!> > > > >> > > > > Ingredient list> > > > >> > > > > All pet foods must list the ingredients present in the> > > food. The> > > > > ingredients must be listed in order of weight. This is> one> > > of the> > > > > best ways to determine the quality of the food. With a> > > little> > > > > knowledge of the ingredients, you can choose a food> that> > > is> > > > highly> > > > > digestible and free of unwanted products. Be careful of> > > one> > > > tactic> > > > > used by manufacturers to disguise less desirable> > > ingredients.> > > > > Breaking an ingredient into several different smaller> > > ingredients> > > > > and listing them individually is used to lower these> > > undesirable> > > > > ingredients farther down the ingredient list. For> example,> > > a> > > > product> > > > > list could contain chicken, ground corn, corn gluten,> > > ground> > > > wheat,> > > > > corn bran, wheat flour, wheat middling, etc. If we> were to> > > group> > > > all> > > > > of the corn ingredients as one, they would probably far> > > out-weigh> > > > > the amount of chicken, and wheat. As a consumer, you> must> > > read> > > > all> > > > > of the ingredients carefully including the ingredients> at> > > the> > > > end,> > > > > to know the type of preservatives and colorings that> are> > > used. I> > > > > have listed a few of the more common ingredients and> their> > > > > definitions.> > > > >> > > > > Meat: Meat is the clean flesh of slaughtered animals> > > (chicken,> > > > > cattle, lamb, turkey, etc.). The flesh can include> > > striated> > > > skeletal> > > > > muscle, tongue, diaphragm, heart, esophagus, overlying> fat> > > and> > > > the> > > > > skin, sinew, nerves and blood vessels normally found> with> > > that> > > > flesh.> > > > >> > > > > Meat By-products: Meat by-products are clean parts of> > > slaughtered> > > > > animals, not including meat. These include lungs,> spleen,> > > > kidneys,> > > > > brain, liver, blood, bone, and stomach and intestines> > > freed of> > > > their> > > > > contents. It does not include hair, horns, teeth, or> > > hooves.> > > > >> > > > > Poultry By-products: Poultry by-products are clean> parts> > > of> > > > > slaughtered poultry such as heads, feet, and internal> > > organs> > > > (like> > > > > heart, lungs, liver, kidneys, abdomen, and> intestines). It> > > does> > > > not> > > > > contain feathers.> > > > >> > > > > Fish Meal: Fish meal is the clean ground tissue of> > > undecomposed> > > > > whole fish or fish cuttings, with or without the oil> > > extracted.> > > > >> > > > > Beef Tallow: Beef tallow is fat derived from beef.> > > > >> > > > > Ground Corn: Ground corn is the entire corn kernel> ground> > > or> > > > chopped.> > > > >> > > > > Corn Gluten Meal: Corn gluten meal is the by-product> after> > > the> > > > > manufacture of corn syrup or starch, and is the dried> > > residue> > > > after> > > > > the removal of the bran, germ, and starch.> > > > >> > > > > Brewers Rice: Brewers rice is the small fragments of> rice> > > kernels> > > > > that have been separated from larger kernels of milled> > > rice.> > > > >> > > > > Brown Rice: Brown rice is the unpolished rice left over> > > after the> > > > > kernels have been removed.> > > > >> > > > > Soybean Meal: Soybean meal is a by-product of the> > > production of> > > > > soybean oil.> > > > >> > > > > BHA: BHA is butylated hydroxyanisole, a fat> preservative.> > > > >> > > > > Ethoxyquin: Ethoxyquin is a chemical preservative that> is> > > used to> > > > > prevent spoilage in dog food.> > > > >> > > > > Tocopherols: Tocopherols (e.g., vitamin E) are> naturally> > > > occurring> > > > > compounds used as natural preservatives.> > > > >> > > > > The AAFCO standards> > > > >> > > > > 'AAFCO' stands for the Association of American Feed> > > Control> > > > > Officials. The AAFCO develops guidelines for the> > > production,> > > > > labeling, and sale of animal foods. These are called> the> > > AAFCO> > > > > standards. AAFCO has developed two standards which pet> > > foods> > > > should> > > > > meet. Pet foods which meet the AAFCO's requirements> will> > > include> > > > one> > > > > of two statements on their label.> > > > >> > > > > The first and lower standard states 'formulated to meet> > > AAFCO's> > > > > nutrient requirement.' This means the food was tested> in> > > the> > > > > laboratory and was found to have the recommended> amounts> > > of> > > > protein,> > > > > fat, etc. But as mentioned above, the combination of> shoe> > > > leather,> > > > > used motor oil, and coal would meet this standard.> > > > >> > > > > The second standard states something like 'animal-> feeding> > > tests> > > > > using AAFCO's procedures substantiate that this product> > > provides> > > > > complete and balanced nutrition.' For a pet food to be> > > able to> > > > carry> > > > > this label, it had to be tested on a population of> animals> > > for> > > > six> > > > > months and shown to provide adequate nutrition. But> even> > > with> > > > this> > > > > statement, there are problems with its interpretation.> If> > > one> > > > > particular product in a manufacturer's line was tested> and> > > found> > > > to> > > > > meet this standard, the company is allowed to include> this> > > same> > > > > statement on other products in the same 'family' which> > > provide> > > > equal> > > > > or greater concentrations of all the nutrients. So> even if> > > the> > > > pet> > > > > food carries this AAFCO food trial statement on its> label,> > > you> > > > can> > > > > not be sure that specific product was actually tested> in a> > > food> > > > > trial. In addition, testing a food for six months is> not> > > an> > > > adequate> > > > > amount of time to determine if deficiencies or other> long> > > term> > > > > effects may occur after feeding the product a year or> > > more.> > > > Despite> > > > > these problems with the interpretation of this AAFCO> food> > > trial> > > > > statement, having the statement on a pet food label at> > > least> > > > shows> > > > > the company has made some attempt to develop a good> food.> > > > >> > > > > Feeding instructions> > > > >> > > > > Feeding instructions or guidelines are included on most> > > every bag> > > > > and most cans of pet foods. These guidelines give the> > > recommended> > > > > amount to be fed based on growth level and weight. I> would> > > remind> > > > > owners that these are very rough guidelines. Every> animal> > > has a> > > > > different level of activity, metabolism, and ambient> > > > environmental> > > > > temperature. In addition, breed, age, and other> > > environmental> > > > > stresses all impact daily requirements. I encourage> you to> > > use> > > > these> > > > > guidelines as rough starting points. If your animal is> > > thin or> > > > > hungry, feed it more often and in greater quantity. If> > > your pet> > > > is> > > > > obese, feed it less. I cannot begin to count the> number of> > > > clients> > > > > that have complained of a hungry, thin, or obese dog> and> > > after> > > > being> > > > > questioned about it found that they were feeding the> > > recommended> > > > > amount on the bag and were afraid to deviate from it.> This> > > is an> > > > > area where common sense is much more important than> > > science.> > > > >> > > > > Summary> > > > >> > > > > One of the most common questions that I get is what is> the> > > best> > > > pet> > > > > food on the market? I can honestly say that there is> not> > > one. The> > > > > very fact that there are so many types and brands on> the> > > market> > > > > shows that there are hundreds of options and opinions.> > > Some dogs> > > > > need higher fat and protein than others. Feed what is> > > appropriate> > > > > for your pet: puppies need puppy food and cats need cat> > > food. Do> > > > not> > > > > switch brands every month, but do not be afraid to> switch> > > brands> > > > and> > > > > find one that your pet does well on. I have seen> medical> > > problems> > > > > from dogs fed the cheaper generic foods, and some farm> > > store and> > > > > department store brands. If you are feeding a pet food> > > that can> > > > only> > > > > be purchased from a veterinarian, read the label> closely> > > and then> > > > > compare it to some of the premium brands on the market.> > > Then> > > > check> > > > > the price. You may be in for a big surprise! You do not> > > always> > > > get> > > > > what you pay for.> > > > >> > > > > The other question I get is, 'what do I feed my pets?'> I> > > can tell> > > > > you that I feed my dog a premium national brand that is> > > chicken> > > > and> > > > > rice and sells for around 73 cents a pound. I feed my> cats> > > a> > > > premium> > > > > brand that is formulated to help reduce cystitis and> > > urinary> > > > > problems, which sells for twice of what my dog food> costs,> > > but my> > > > > cats eat very little and do great on it. I always feed> dry> > > food> > > > and> > > > > free choice. Feeding table scraps and treats have to be> > > > considered> > > > > in the overall diet and are discussed more thoroughly> in> > > their> > > > > separate articles.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > References and Further Reading> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Palika, L. The Consumer's Guide To Dog Food. Howell> Book> > > House of> > > > > Simon & Schuster/Macmillan Company. New York, NY; 1996.> > > > >> > > > > Ralston Purina Company. Nutrition and Management of> Dogs> > > and> > > > Cats.> > > > > St. Louis, MO; 1987.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Pam> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following:> > > > > 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.> > > > > 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before> > > using any> > > > natural remedy.> > > > > 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your> > > own> > > > physician and to> > > > > prescribe for your own health.> > > > > We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to> > > post here> > > > as long as> > > > > they behave themselves.> > > > > Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly> > > that, and> > > > any person> > > > > following the advice of anyone posting here does so at> > > their own> > > > risk.> > > > > It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting> advice> > > or> > > > products from list members, you are agreeing to> > > > > be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the> > > List Owner> > > > and members free of any liability.> > > > >> > > > > Dr. Ian Shillington> > > > > Doctor of Naturopathy> > > > > Dr.IanShillington@G...> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >

May 6, 2004

Shania is pregnant now. So soon she'll be eating even more. I keep adding to our mouths to feed....today 100 baby chics are being delivered. ~grin~

Next week I'm getting 1/2 dozen kittens.

-

zeb

herbal remedies

Thursday, May 06, 2004 6:35 AM

Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

I know that love. And your right until they are 1 year old they will always seem to be eating.

Love,

Zeb

-

Candace Podratz

herbal remedies

Thursday, May 06, 2004 1:03 AM

Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

I'm exagerating, but it seems like they're always eating!- "pam" <peetee1965<herbal remedies >Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:33 PMRe: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels> Wow, are you serious ?> That's toooooo much.> Pam>>>> ---------------http://www.raw-> dogs.com/content.html> http://home.att.net/~wdcusick/main.html> excellent pet food sight> ->> FEEDING DIRECTIONS: A 20 POUND DOG will eat approximately 15oz. per> day. You may increase the quantity fed to larger dogs by an> additional 15oz. per day for every 25 pounds of body weight.> Your dog has individual nutritional needs, depending upon their> current health, sex, age, activity levels and climate. Feed at room> temperature and always provide fresh, clean water for your dogs.> PREGNANT & NURSING DOGS: Feed 2-4 times the adult requirement per> day.>> ------------------------------->>>>>>> Daily Caloric Requirements for Adult Dogs> These figures are calculated for an average, moderately active adult> dog that lives in a thermoneutral environment. Less active dogs> require considerably fewer calories. Extremes in temperature,> illness, or physical activity (such as racing or hunting) can> increase the daily caloric need by 300 percent or more.>>> lb kcal lb kcal lb kcal>> 5 231 60 1489 115 2426> 10 389 65 1581 120 2504> 15 526 70 1672 125 2582> 20 653 75 1760 130 2660> 25 772 80 1848 135 2736> 30 886 85 1934 140 2811> 35 994 90 2019 145 2887> 40 1009 95 2102 150 2961> 45 1200 100 2184 155 3034> 50 1299 105 2266 160 3108> 55 1395 110 2346 165 3180>> Source: Data calculated from Waltham Centre for Pet Nutrition (WCPN)> recommendations>> ================================>> Protein Needs Of The Aging Dog>>> Dog owners sometimes ask at just what age a dog is considered old.> Aging is very individual and depends on breed, genetics, individual> metabolism, care and nutrition. However, seven years is widely used> to define the older dog. Perhaps this is because age-related> diseases begin to appear and metabolic changes associated with aging> become evident around this age. Protein is used by the body to> support many functions including a strong immune system as well as> strong muscles and healthy skin.>> The need for more protein in an older dog's diet contradicts a> belief held by some dog owners that older dogs should be fed less> protein than younger dogs. Perhaps this belief resulted from the> association of protein with kidney failure. Once kidney failure is> in advanced stages, protein restriction is recommended to help> alleviate some of the problems associated with this condition.>> The truth is, research from several leading veterinary hospitals> shows there is no evidence to indicate that protein at an> appropriate level for a nutritionally complete and balanced diet> causes kidney damage in dogs.>> Research indicating that older animals have increased protein needs> has been going on since the 1950s. One study in the 1960s showed> healthy geriatric dogs needed about 50 percent more protein than> young adult dogs in order to maintain protein reserves. These> reserves are needed to support the immune system, especially during> times of stress. Significant research during the 1980s and 1990s> focused on defining maximum safe levels of protein for older dogs.>>>> One of the changes that occurs, but is not readily apparent, is that> older dogs can become less efficient in metabolizing protein than> young dogs. Consequently, older dogs require more protein than young> adult dogs.>>>>>> herbal remedies , "Candace Podratz"> <CandaceAndBrock@w...> wrote:> > I have two pups (a black lab and a golden retriever) that are 7> months old> > and both eat their body weight in food each day!!!!> >> >> > - > > "pam" <peetee1965@h...>> > <herbal remedies >> > Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:16 PM> > Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels> >> >> > > I've never stopped to figure that out. I love my pooch dearly> and I> > > don't care about the cost. On the other hand she isn't quite> five> > > pounds so I spend far less than a big dog mom.> > > Pam> > >> > > herbal remedies , "Candace Podratz"> > > <CandaceAndBrock@w...> wrote:> > > > WOW how much do you guys pay to feed your animals, $350/month?> > > > : O> > > > - > > > > zeb@A...> > > > herbal remedies > > > > Wednesday, May 05, 2004 5:43 PM> > > > Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels> > > >> > > >> > > > Exactly. Something like a whole chicken through a grinder,> some> > > different grasses and herbs that dogs naturally eat in the wild.> > > find the most common ones. Maybe some kind of catnip or whatever> > > dogs use for dognip (ha ha ha). Sprout some brown rice as the> > > filler if anything rather than wheat. Or better yet some wild> rice> > > which is actually in the grass family. Add fresh garlic cloves,> > > carrots, some beets, spinach leaf maybe etc. Stuff like that.> Then> > > grind it all up. All Raw. Then dehydrate at or below 105> degrees.> > > Add some of the UDO's Pet Oil. Throw in a tiny bit of rose hips.> > > Something like that.> > > >> > > > Mix some eggs in as well and you have your thingy. For cats> it> > > has to be far more protein based. I think this would do it. You> > > have two choices. Freeze it on packets so they can be thawed and> > > mixed with a bit of hot water or dehydrate and vacuum seal.> > > >> > > > That's what I'm gonna try at least.> > > >> > > > Zeb> > > > - > > > > Sylvia> > > > herbal remedies > > > > Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:39 PM> > > > Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels> > > >> > > >> > > > So it would be dehydrated meat then LOL?????> > > > (and maybe some vitamins tossed in)> > > >> > > > I have read much recently on dogs and cats being allergic> to> > > wheat,> > > > so having a product that does not contain wheat might be> good,> > > > although perhaps sprouted wheat might work.> > > >> > > > The pet food we switched to has less grain in it and more> meat> > > and> > > > bone meals. Last week there was much talk about raw meat> and> > > bones> > > > and so something dehydrated with ground meat, bone and> > > supplements> > > > would be cool.> > > >> > > > I have found that my dog really enjoys veggies, and so we> give> > > them> > > > to him often (both cooked and raw) Perhaps that could be> added> > > to the> > > > mix. We had recently been discussing a mix we could make> for> > > our> > > > puppy and dehyrating or baking, so i really like this idea> > > >> > > > Sylvia> > > >> > > > In herbal remedies , <zeb@A...> wrote:> > > > > Pam,> > > > >> > > > > Thank you very much. I have been working with Doc in> > > trying to> > > > come up with a Raw dehydrated pet food that was ALL organic> > > and only> > > > what dogs need not what we "think" they need. If anyone> has> > > > suggestions or know of studies regarding dog and cat foods> > > please let> > > > me know.> > > > >> > > > > Love,,> > > > > Zeb> > > > > - > > > > > pam> > > > > herbal remedies > > > > > Tuesday, May 04, 2004 12:10 AM> > > > > Herbal Remedies - dog food labels> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?> > > > cls=2 & cat=1661 & articleid=668> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Dog Food Labels> > > > > Veterinary & Aquatic Services Department, Drs. Foster & > > > Smith,> > > > Inc.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Q. What do dog food labels mean?> > > > >> > > > > A. Reading your pet food label is one of the best ways> to> > > > determine> > > > > the quality of the food you are feeding. The> ingredients> > > and the> > > > > guaranteed analysis (amounts of protein, fat,> > > carbohydrates,> > > > fiber,> > > > > and other nutrients) are included on the food label. In> > > addition> > > > to> > > > > providing information about the amount and quality of> > > protein and> > > > > fat, the label will also alert you of any unwanted> > > preservatives> > > > and> > > > > give general feeding guidelines.> > > > > A few other things to consider are the price. Calculate> > > out the> > > > > price per pound or the price per day. Almost always,> dry> > > food is> > > > > more economical, and the larger the bag the lower the> > > price per> > > > > pound. Many times, a 40-pound bag is less than half as> > > much per> > > > > pound than an equivalent 5-pound bag. Remember that> with> > > lower> > > > > quality foods you feed more and it may not always be> > > cheaper. On> > > > the> > > > > other hand, some of the higher priced foods, especially> > > foods> > > > sold> > > > > only through veterinarians, may not be as good as the> less> > > > expensive> > > > > more easily obtainable food. Check the ingredients,> they> > > will> > > > tell> > > > > the real story. Most pets do not need specialty foods,> > > just> > > > quality> > > > > food. By understanding this article and looking at a> few> > > pet food> > > > > labels you will be able to find the best food for your> pet.> > > > >> > > > > Converting dry matter basis> > > > >> > > > > This can be the hard part. All pet foods have different> > > levels of> > > > > moisture. Canned foods can have up to 80% moisture> > > whereas, some> > > > dry> > > > > foods can have as little as 6%. This is important for 2> > > reasons.> > > > The> > > > > first is that the food is priced by the pound, and when> > > you buy> > > > dog> > > > > food that is 80% water you get 20% food and the rest is> > > water. So> > > > > the amount of food your pet consumes is small and> > > expensive. The> > > > > other reason for understanding percent moisture is to> help> > > you> > > > > compare crude protein and fat between brands and> between> > > canned> > > > and> > > > > dry. The listings on the label are for the food as it> is,> > > not as> > > > it> > > > > would be on a dry matter basis. So without converting> both> > > brands> > > > of> > > > > food to a dry matter basis you will not be able to> compare> > > them> > > > > accurately. Fortunately, the conversion is not that> > > complicated.> > > > >> > > > > If a dry dog food has 10% moisture we know that it has> 90%> > > dry> > > > > matter. So we look at the label and check the protein> > > level that> > > > > reads 20%. Next, we divide the 20 percent protein by> the> > > 90% dry> > > > > matter and we get 22%, which is the amount of protein> on a> > > dry> > > > > matter basis. Does this make sense so far? Good. Now> let> > > us> > > > compare> > > > > this to canned food that has 80% moisture. We know that> > > with 80%> > > > > moisture we have 20% dry matter. The label shows 5%> > > protein. So> > > > we> > > > > take the 5% and divide it by 20% and we get 25%> protein on> > > a dry> > > > > matter basis. So the canned food has more protein per> > > pound on a> > > > dry> > > > > matter basis after all the water is taken out. We can> do> > > the same> > > > > for fat, fiber, etc.> > > > >> > > > > Guaranteed analysis> > > > >> > > > > The guaranteed analysis on the information panel of the> > > dog food> > > > > label lists the minimum levels of crude protein and fat> > > and the> > > > > maximum levels of fiber and water. The protein and fat> are> > > listed> > > > as> > > > > crude sources and not as digestible sources. The> > > digestibility of> > > > > protein and fat can vary widely depending on their> > > sources. The> > > > list> > > > > of ingredients should be examined closely to determine> how> > > > > digestible the sources are (see articles on protein and> > > fat for> > > > more> > > > > explanation). The other factor in determining actual> > > protein and> > > > fat> > > > > percentages is the amount of moisture present in the> food> > > as> > > > > discussed earlier. While the guaranteed analysis is a> > > start in> > > > > understanding the quality of the food, be very careful> > > about> > > > relying> > > > > on it too much. A pet food manufacturer made a mock> > > product that> > > > had> > > > > a guaranteed analysis of 10% protein, 6.5% fat, 2.4%> > > fiber, and> > > > 68%> > > > > moisture, similar to what you see on many canned pet> food> > > labels.> > > > > The only problem, was that the ingredients were old> > > leather work> > > > > boots, used motor oil, crushed coal, and water!> > > > >> > > > > Ingredient list> > > > >> > > > > All pet foods must list the ingredients present in the> > > food. The> > > > > ingredients must be listed in order of weight. This is> one> > > of the> > > > > best ways to determine the quality of the food. With a> > > little> > > > > knowledge of the ingredients, you can choose a food> that> > > is> > > > highly> > > > > digestible and free of unwanted products. Be careful of> > > one> > > > tactic> > > > > used by manufacturers to disguise less desirable> > > ingredients.> > > > > Breaking an ingredient into several different smaller> > > ingredients> > > > > and listing them individually is used to lower these> > > undesirable> > > > > ingredients farther down the ingredient list. For> example,> > > a> > > > product> > > > > list could contain chicken, ground corn, corn gluten,> > > ground> > > > wheat,> > > > > corn bran, wheat flour, wheat middling, etc. If we> were to> > > group> > > > all> > > > > of the corn ingredients as one, they would probably far> > > out-weigh> > > > > the amount of chicken, and wheat. As a consumer, you> must> > > read> > > > all> > > > > of the ingredients carefully including the ingredients> at> > > the> > > > end,> > > > > to know the type of preservatives and colorings that> are> > > used. I> > > > > have listed a few of the more common ingredients and> their> > > > > definitions.> > > > >> > > > > Meat: Meat is the clean flesh of slaughtered animals> > > (chicken,> > > > > cattle, lamb, turkey, etc.). The flesh can include> > > striated> > > > skeletal> > > > > muscle, tongue, diaphragm, heart, esophagus, overlying> fat> > > and> > > > the> > > > > skin, sinew, nerves and blood vessels normally found> with> > > that> > > > flesh.> > > > >> > > > > Meat By-products: Meat by-products are clean parts of> > > slaughtered> > > > > animals, not including meat. These include lungs,> spleen,> > > > kidneys,> > > > > brain, liver, blood, bone, and stomach and intestines> > > freed of> > > > their> > > > > contents. It does not include hair, horns, teeth, or> > > hooves.> > > > >> > > > > Poultry By-products: Poultry by-products are clean> parts> > > of> > > > > slaughtered poultry such as heads, feet, and internal> > > organs> > > > (like> > > > > heart, lungs, liver, kidneys, abdomen, and> intestines). It> > > does> > > > not> > > > > contain feathers.> > > > >> > > > > Fish Meal: Fish meal is the clean ground tissue of> > > undecomposed> > > > > whole fish or fish cuttings, with or without the oil> > > extracted.> > > > >> > > > > Beef Tallow: Beef tallow is fat derived from beef.> > > > >> > > > > Ground Corn: Ground corn is the entire corn kernel> ground> > > or> > > > chopped.> > > > >> > > > > Corn Gluten Meal: Corn gluten meal is the by-product> after> > > the> > > > > manufacture of corn syrup or starch, and is the dried> > > residue> > > > after> > > > > the removal of the bran, germ, and starch.> > > > >> > > > > Brewers Rice: Brewers rice is the small fragments of> rice> > > kernels> > > > > that have been separated from larger kernels of milled> > > rice.> > > > >> > > > > Brown Rice: Brown rice is the unpolished rice left over> > > after the> > > > > kernels have been removed.> > > > >> > > > > Soybean Meal: Soybean meal is a by-product of the> > > production of> > > > > soybean oil.> > > > >> > > > > BHA: BHA is butylated hydroxyanisole, a fat> preservative.> > > > >> > > > > Ethoxyquin: Ethoxyquin is a chemical preservative that> is> > > used to> > > > > prevent spoilage in dog food.> > > > >> > > > > Tocopherols: Tocopherols (e.g., vitamin E) are> naturally> > > > occurring> > > > > compounds used as natural preservatives.> > > > >> > > > > The AAFCO standards> > > > >> > > > > 'AAFCO' stands for the Association of American Feed> > > Control> > > > > Officials. The AAFCO develops guidelines for the> > > production,> > > > > labeling, and sale of animal foods. These are called> the> > > AAFCO> > > > > standards. AAFCO has developed two standards which pet> > > foods> > > > should> > > > > meet. Pet foods which meet the AAFCO's requirements> will> > > include> > > > one> > > > > of two statements on their label.> > > > >> > > > > The first and lower standard states 'formulated to meet> > > AAFCO's> > > > > nutrient requirement.' This means the food was tested> in> > > the> > > > > laboratory and was found to have the recommended> amounts> > > of> > > > protein,> > > > > fat, etc. But as mentioned above, the combination of> shoe> > > > leather,> > > > > used motor oil, and coal would meet this standard.> > > > >> > > > > The second standard states something like 'animal-> feeding> > > tests> > > > > using AAFCO's procedures substantiate that this product> > > provides> > > > > complete and balanced nutrition.' For a pet food to be> > > able to> > > > carry> > > > > this label, it had to be tested on a population of> animals> > > for> > > > six> > > > > months and shown to provide adequate nutrition. But> even> > > with> > > > this> > > > > statement, there are problems with its interpretation.> If> > > one> > > > > particular product in a manufacturer's line was tested> and> > > found> > > > to> > > > > meet this standard, the company is allowed to include> this> > > same> > > > > statement on other products in the same 'family' which> > > provide> > > > equal> > > > > or greater concentrations of all the nutrients. So> even if> > > the> > > > pet> > > > > food carries this AAFCO food trial statement on its> label,> > > you> > > > can> > > > > not be sure that specific product was actually tested> in a> > > food> > > > > trial. In addition, testing a food for six months is> not> > > an> > > > adequate> > > > > amount of time to determine if deficiencies or other> long> > > term> > > > > effects may occur after feeding the product a year or> > > more.> > > > Despite> > > > > these problems with the interpretation of this AAFCO> food> > > trial> > > > > statement, having the statement on a pet food label at> > > least> > > > shows> > > > > the company has made some attempt to develop a good> food.> > > > >> > > > > Feeding instructions> > > > >> > > > > Feeding instructions or guidelines are included on most> > > every bag> > > > > and most cans of pet foods. These guidelines give the> > > recommended> > > > > amount to be fed based on growth level and weight. I> would> > > remind> > > > > owners that these are very rough guidelines. Every> animal> > > has a> > > > > different level of activity, metabolism, and ambient> > > > environmental> > > > > temperature. In addition, breed, age, and other> > > environmental> > > > > stresses all impact daily requirements. I encourage> you to> > > use> > > > these> > > > > guidelines as rough starting points. If your animal is> > > thin or> > > > > hungry, feed it more often and in greater quantity. If> > > your pet> > > > is> > > > > obese, feed it less. I cannot begin to count the> number of> > > > clients> > > > > that have complained of a hungry, thin, or obese dog> and> > > after> > > > being> > > > > questioned about it found that they were feeding the> > > recommended> > > > > amount on the bag and were afraid to deviate from it.> This> > > is an> > > > > area where common sense is much more important than> > > science.> > > > >> > > > > Summary> > > > >> > > > > One of the most common questions that I get is what is> the> > > best> > > > pet> > > > > food on the market? I can honestly say that there is> not> > > one. The> > > > > very fact that there are so many types and brands on> the> > > market> > > > > shows that there are hundreds of options and opinions.> > > Some dogs> > > > > need higher fat and protein than others. Feed what is> > > appropriate> > > > > for your pet: puppies need puppy food and cats need cat> > > food. Do> > > > not> > > > > switch brands every month, but do not be afraid to> switch> > > brands> > > > and> > > > > find one that your pet does well on. I have seen> medical> > > problems> > > > > from dogs fed the cheaper generic foods, and some farm> > > store and> > > > > department store brands. If you are feeding a pet food> > > that can> > > > only> > > > > be purchased from a veterinarian, read the label> closely> > > and then> > > > > compare it to some of the premium brands on the market.> > > Then> > > > check> > > > > the price. You may be in for a big surprise! You do not> > > always> > > > get> > > > > what you pay for.> > > > >> > > > > The other question I get is, 'what do I feed my pets?'> I> > > can tell> > > > > you that I feed my dog a premium national brand that is> > > chicken> > > > and> > > > > rice and sells for around 73 cents a pound. I feed my> cats> > > a> > > > premium> > > > > brand that is formulated to help reduce cystitis and> > > urinary> > > > > problems, which sells for twice of what my dog food> costs,> > > but my> > > > > cats eat very little and do great on it. I always feed> dry> > > food> > > > and> > > > > free choice. Feeding table scraps and treats have to be> > > > considered> > > > > in the overall diet and are discussed more thoroughly> in> > > their> > > > > separate articles.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > References and Further Reading> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Palika, L. The Consumer's Guide To Dog Food. Howell> Book> > > House of> > > > > Simon & Schuster/Macmillan Company. New York, NY; 1996.> > > > >> > > > > Ralston Purina Company. Nutrition and Management of> Dogs> > > and> > > > Cats.> > > > > St. Louis, MO; 1987.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Pam> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following:> > > > > 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.> > > > > 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before> > > using any> > > > natural remedy.> > > > > 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your> > > own> > > > physician and to> > > > > prescribe for your own health.> > > > > We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to> > > post here> > > > as long as> > > > > they behave themselves.> > > > > Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly> > > that, and> > > > any person> > > > > following the advice of anyone posting here does so at> > > their own> > > > risk.> > > > > It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting> advice> > > or> > > > products from list members, you are agreeing to> > > > > be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the> > > List Owner> > > > and members free of any liability.> > > > >> > > > > Dr. Ian Shillington> > > > > Doctor of Naturopathy> > > > > Dr.IanShillington@G...> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >

May 6, 2004

<<<Cat's have to be transitioned into raw,

which can take a couple of

weeks. They rarely will switch right over.

Pam>>>

This is true. I mixed their regular

food in with the raw and eventually they would eat it. They did the

sniff, glare, walk away, and pout routine but eventually got hungry enough to

eat it. It’s not completely raw yet. I’m feeding them

Spot’s Stew, a canned food mixed with raw ground turkey. I haven’t

figured out the grinding part yet and frankly just don’t have room for

another appliance in my kitchen.

Since feeding this food, there’s

been no more hair balls. So, it wasn’t hair balls after all it was

the food. Poor things, they were just trying to tell me “yech, give

us real food”. I do still put a bit of slippery elm in but that

wasn’t working before. I would guess if I switched to completely

raw that wouldn’t be necessary either.

Now if I can just get ME switched over to

completely raw LOL!!

Anna

May 6, 2004

Is there a concern with the mercury and other warnings around tuna in regard to feeding it to your cats?

Just curious...

Kelli

zeb [zeb] Thursday, May 06, 2004 4:27 AMherbal remedies Subject: Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

You simply start adding a tiny bit of tuna to begin with and they'll take it VERY slowly. But you can wean them off it.

Zeb

May 6, 2004

Oh my goodness woman!!! That's quite a houseful!!

Kelli

Candace Podratz [CandaceAndBrock] Thursday, May 06, 2004 6:16 AMherbal remedies Subject: Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

Shania is pregnant now. So soon she'll be eating even more. I keep adding to our mouths to feed....today 100 baby chics are being delivered. ~grin~

Next week I'm getting 1/2 dozen kittens.

May 6, 2004

I would think that anything that applies to humans with regards to

toxins in fish, and non-organic food sources, would apply to our pets.

We try to feed the dog and the cats beef or chicken stuff. I have

noticed that on the rare ocassion that we get a can of fish for them,

it smells and they really dont like it much.

My goal is to eventually make their food myself.

If you really want to feed your cats fish, salmon is good and I

believe is lowest in mercury concentration.

Sylvia

herbal remedies , " Kelli Bever " <kelli@c...>

wrote:

> Is there a concern with the mercury and other warnings around tuna

in regard to feeding it to your cats?

>

> Just curious...

>

> Kelli

>

> zeb@A... [zeb@A...]

> Thursday, May 06, 2004 4:27 AM

> herbal remedies

> Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

>

> You simply start adding a tiny bit of tuna to begin with and

they'll take it VERY slowly. But you can wean them off it.

>

> Zeb

May 6, 2004

Good info, thanks Sylvia!

By the way, did you ever get your pasta maker? If so, have you used it?? I'm very curious to hear the results of your experiments! I haven't ordered mine yet...

Kelli

Sylvia [h10feet] Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:44 AMherbal remedies Subject: Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labelsI would think that anything that applies to humans with regards to toxins in fish, and non-organic food sources, would apply to our pets.We try to feed the dog and the cats beef or chicken stuff. I have noticed that on the rare ocassion that we get a can of fish for them, it smells and they really dont like it much.My goal is to eventually make their food myself. If you really want to feed your cats fish, salmon is good and I believe is lowest in mercury concentration.Sylviaherbal remedies , "Kelli Bever" <kelli@c...> wrote:> Is there a concern with the mercury and other warnings around tuna in regard to feeding it to your cats?> > Just curious...> > Kelli> > > zeb@A... [zeb@A...] > Thursday, May 06, 2004 4:27 AM> herbal remedies > Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels> > > You simply start adding a tiny bit of tuna to begin with and they'll take it VERY slowly. But you can wean them off it.> > ZebFederal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

May 6, 2004

Yes it is! I was going to get turkeys and a cow or two this year, but I think that will have to wait til next year.

I've been so busy today planting my garden and dealing with the little baby chics and my toddler it's 2:45 and I just realized I haven't eaten anything yet today. And just noticed I'm terribly sunburned.

I was so busy I spaced myself out. Need to go take care of me now. : D

Candace

-

Kelli Bever

herbal remedies

Thursday, May 06, 2004 1:31 PM

RE: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

Oh my goodness woman!!! That's quite a houseful!!

Kelli

Candace Podratz [CandaceAndBrock] Thursday, May 06, 2004 6:16 AMherbal remedies Subject: Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

Shania is pregnant now. So soon she'll be eating even more. I keep adding to our mouths to feed....today 100 baby chics are being delivered. ~grin~

Next week I'm getting 1/2 dozen kittens.Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

May 6, 2004

That is Sooooooo cool!

Zeb

-

Candace Podratz

herbal remedies

Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:15 AM

Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

Shania is pregnant now. So soon she'll be eating even more. I keep adding to our mouths to feed....today 100 baby chics are being delivered. ~grin~

Next week I'm getting 1/2 dozen kittens.

May 10, 2004

Just add an equal amount of garlic powder and yeast to the already existing TN formula and you'll have it.

When I get the chance, I'll post it to the files.

Love,

Doc

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.727-738-0554Doc

-

pam

herbal remedies

Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:57 PM

Re: Herbal Remedies - dog food labels

What are the ingredients in the Pet Total Nutrition ???Pam

May 11, 2004

Cool !

Thanx Doc

Pam

--- > Just add an equal amount of garlic powder and yeast to the

already existing TN formula and you'll have it.

>

> When I get the chance, I'll post it to the files.

>

> Love,

>

> Doc

>

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