Guest guest Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 Has anyone had the clinical experience of treating a wei-qi deficient patient who gets frequent colds only to find that the moment you start to tonify (even with yu ping feng san), they get sick again. I have had two patients like this. Both female, both with some spleen qi deficiency with damp, and a tendency towards cold (either/both SP / KD Yang deficiency). Any thoughts? I wonder if the system is so deficient that there is a persistent pathological agent that does not get opposed by the righteous qi until the qi gets tonified, at which point the anti-pathogenic reaction becomes strong enough to manifest as a " cold " , but is a sign of, actually, a strengthened immune system. If this is correct, then tonification is actually appropriate, and is not " causing " a cold. The other possibility is that the SP is so weak that the tonifying agents are exacerbating a damp spleen condition, thus further weakening the wei qi and allowing a pathogen to enter. In this case, drying damp and secondarily tonifying the SP would be necessary before tonifying the wei qi or organs. I am curious to hear any other theories. Benjamin Hawes, MAOM, Lic. Ac., CORTEZ FAMILY ACUPUNCTURE 1430 E. Main Street, Suite #4 Cortez, CO 81321 (970) 565-0230 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 this person is lekely to be both Blood and Chi deficient; I would try moxibustion on the obvious points (St36, Sp3, Ren 12, Bl20, Bl23) and back it up with a formula such as Si Wu Tang with Huang Chi added. It is also good to see the western point of view, that this person re-infected herself and that you have to keep strenghening her health until she is ok Regards, PJ On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 06:46 pm, Benjamin Hawes wrote: > Has anyone had the clinical experience of treating a wei-qi deficient > patient who gets frequent colds only to find that the moment you start > to > tonify (even with yu ping feng san), they get sick again. I have had > two > patients like this. Both female, both with some spleen qi deficiency > with > damp, and a tendency towards cold (either/both SP / KD Yang > deficiency). Any > thoughts? I wonder if the system is so deficient that there is a > persistent > pathological agent that does not get opposed by the righteous qi until > the > qi gets tonified, at which point the anti-pathogenic reaction becomes > strong > enough to manifest as a " cold " , but is a sign of, actually, a > strengthened > immune system. If this is correct, then tonification is actually > appropriate, and is not " causing " a cold. The other possibility is > that the > SP is so weak that the tonifying agents are exacerbating a damp spleen > condition, thus further weakening the wei qi and allowing a pathogen to > enter. In this case, drying damp and secondarily tonifying the SP > would be > necessary before tonifying the wei qi or organs. > > I am curious to hear any other theories. > > Benjamin Hawes, MAOM, Lic. Ac., > Director > > CORTEZ FAMILY ACUPUNCTURE > 1430 E. Main Street, Suite #4 > Cortez, CO 81321 > (970) 565-0230 > > > > > <image.tiff> > > > Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, > religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. > > To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or > none, visit the groups’ homepage: > Chinese Medicine/ click > ‘edit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly. > > To send an email to > <Chinese Medicine- > from the > email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but > will still recieve messages for a few days. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 Sounds like a case of tonifying the pathogen. What are these 'colds' like? You don't mention Wind, and expelling Wind (eg cupping Bl-11/12). Is there also the possibility of the colds being more like allergic rhinitis or asthma rather than full-blown viral infections? If so, I'm reminded of the Giovanni theory of the Lu-Kid relationship where a constitutional weakness of the Kidney is responsible. (summarised in this MSC abstract: http://www.chinese-medicine.co.uk/msc/msc8.htm ) Godfrey Bartlett In Chinese Medicine , " Benjamin Hawes " <ben_laura@n...> wrote: > Has anyone had the clinical experience of treating a wei-qi deficient > patient who gets frequent colds only to find that the moment you start to > tonify (even with yu ping feng san), they get sick again. I have had two > patients like this. Both female, both with some spleen qi deficiency with > damp, and a tendency towards cold (either/both SP / KD Yang deficiency). Any > thoughts? I wonder if the system is so deficient that there is a persistent > pathological agent that does not get opposed by the righteous qi until the > qi gets tonified, at which point the anti-pathogenic reaction becomes strong > enough to manifest as a " cold " , but is a sign of, actually, a strengthened > immune system. If this is correct, then tonification is actually > appropriate, and is not " causing " a cold. The other possibility is that the > SP is so weak that the tonifying agents are exacerbating a damp spleen > condition, thus further weakening the wei qi and allowing a pathogen to > enter. In this case, drying damp and secondarily tonifying the SP would be > necessary before tonifying the wei qi or organs. > > I am curious to hear any other theories. > > Benjamin Hawes, MAOM, Lic. Ac., > Director > > CORTEZ FAMILY ACUPUNCTURE > 1430 E. Main Street, Suite #4 > Cortez, CO 81321 > (970) 565-0230 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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