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In a message dated 9/26/2003 8:15:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

Jackie writes:

 

> Problems

> with acidity are a very marked effect in Equine metabolic Syndrome - they

> have lots of trouble with gastric ulcers, and often need buffering minerals

> and an alkalising diet. Ulcers are an obvious consequence, but laminitis is

> also linked to caecal acidity, leakage of exotoxins and vaso-active amines

> etc, and we think there may be broader more systemic 'cellular inflammation'

> which is linked to acidity somehow.

>

 

Most gastric ulcers are generally attributed to a bacterial infection

that most Western Docs treat with antibiotics. Although once a person gets

back on an alkaline diet, the infection happily seems to take care of itself. I

guess horses and Humans aren't that different ;-)

The interesting thing about Vit C is that horses make their own. Some

forward thinking Docs have pointed out the possibility that Humans used to

make Vit C also, but from some genetic mishap we lost this ability. A real drag

as virtually all other animals create Vit C which prevents a myriad of

diseases that Humans are struggling with.

 

All the best,

Chris

 

 

 

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My teacher said something that I have been to lazy to follow myself but someone

with more motivation may wanna heed this:

 

" Eat only what you can take from nature yourself

Want to eat potatoes? Can you cultivate and dig up and prepare? Want to eat

meat? Can you kill and prepare the animal you want to eat? "

 

Holger

 

Hi Holger,

 

I like your post. I lived on farm in Minnesota without electricity or running

water. Your teacher's admonition was our life by default.

 

Earlier in the year we had a flurry of exchanges on CHA regarding eating food

that " looks like what it is " ... which is to say not processed and not in a box.

There's some merit in this too without having to own a farm or live on a

commune.

 

Emmanuel Segmen

 

 

 

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>>> This is only if the person is in severe metabolic stress. Two

situations that I know of are if a person is in the last stages of response

to

stress, the body will start to dump calcium which will show very alkaline.

It is an

extreme case that shows very alkaline.

 

Interesting - when you say 'last stages' do you mean adrenal exhaustion or

very high cortisol or ...? I think I have seen that 'dumping' once - lots of

grey limestone coloured sediment on the stable floor after mucking out.

 

>>> Also, if there is kidney trouble, a body may hold on to potassium

which will also show very alkaline.

 

Yes, some retain it, some dump it - in Cushings proper.

 

>>What form of metabolic testing were you looking into? What was the

name of the company involved?

 

If you do a google search on the phrase 'metabolic typing' the particular

doctor promoting it will come up, there were only a few hits. Someone found

an article on the subject and we were looking at the possiblity of

monitering saliva as a prevention method or early warning system. Problems

with acidity are a very marked effect in Equine metabolic Syndrome - they

have lots of trouble with gastric ulcers, and often need buffering minerals

and an alkalising diet. Ulcers are an obvious consequence, but laminitis is

also linked to caecal acidity, leakage of exotoxins and vaso-active amines

etc, and we think there may be broader more systemic 'cellular inflammation'

which is linked to acidity somehow.

 

They also certainly respond to many of the things you listed funnily

enough - high level Vitamin E, ALA, Co Q10 - plus bio-flavinoids and mineral

antioxidents like copper and selenium. We tend to avoid C somewhat because

they should produce it themselves, and it frees up pro-oxident iron which is

a problem in horses who have no mechanism for excretion.

 

Horses never needed such heavy loading with extra anti-oxidents before, but

I notice now the petfood companies are increasing their levels too.

 

Jackie

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> If you do a google search on the phrase 'metabolic typing' the particular

> doctor promoting it will come up, there were only a few hits......

 

I don't know what made me think that - maybe a search on the work of Dr.s

Guenter Enderlein and Otto Warburg only got a few hits, there's a million

on metabolic typing!.

 

Anyway, the following site was the one which I bookmarked:

 

http://www.bloodph.com/research/research_main.html

 

Jackie

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susegmen writes:

 

> I had one 106 year old female with an aorta as flexible as my own radial

> artery. My heart smiled in admiration and respect.

>

 

Have you any imsight into her life?

 

 

Chris

 

Hey, where's Emmanuel's evidence based studies? Where's his two blind men ... I

mean double-blind study of this woman?

;-)

 

Forgive me. I just couldn't resist.

 

Emmanuel Segmen

 

 

 

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>>>Most gastric ulcers are generally attributed to a bacterial infection

that most Western Docs treat with antibiotics. Although once a person gets

back on an alkaline diet, the infection happily seems to take care of

itself. I

guess horses and Humans aren't that different ;-)

 

They are a little ...a bacteria has never been identified in horses, though

I have heard of one or two vets who treat with antibiotics, and we find Aloe

Vera helpful. But, because they are a herd/moving/browsing creature, they

are stressed by the confinement of stabling (liver qi stagnation?).

Something like 80% of racehorses therefore have gastric lesions - it's

horrifying. Turn them out to grass - and they will heal on their own in a

month, confined they will not.

 

When my horse was overloaded with (professionally prescribed) qi tonics a

gastric ulcer was the end result (liver attacking stomach?). Bai Shao really

helped him anyway, was more effective than ranitidine for him.

 

Jackie

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hi,

sounds like when one gtes exhausted due to stress

there is dumping of calcium.

isn't this osteoporosis. is this not what we talk

about loss of kid energy during some of the following

conditions.-- after delivery, during pregnancy,

overwork, exhaustion, high stress, lack of sleep

consistently, aging,

then is this nott the proof that we need as far a s

acupuncture is concerned.

why are we loking for corelating WM values to

acupuncture.

TRY & LOOK AT ACUPUNCTURE/TCM VALUES & HOW WM FITS

INTO THE MOULD.

this is so as TCM/AP has more depth as a science.

anand

 

 

 

--- jackie <Jackie wrote: >

>

> >>> This is only if the person is in severe

> metabolic stress. Two

> situations that I know of are if a person is in the

> last stages of response

> to

> stress, the body will start to dump calcium which

> will show very alkaline.

> It is an

> extreme case that shows very alkaline.

>

> Interesting - when you say 'last stages' do you mean

> adrenal exhaustion or

> very high cortisol or ...? I think I have seen that

> 'dumping' once - lots of

> grey limestone coloured sediment on the stable floor

> after mucking out.

>

> >>> Also, if there is kidney trouble, a body

> may hold on to potassium

> which will also show very alkaline.

>

> Yes, some retain it, some dump it - in Cushings

> proper.

>

> >>What form of metabolic testing were you looking

> into? What was the

> name of the company involved?

>

> If you do a google search on the phrase 'metabolic

> typing' the particular

> doctor promoting it will come up, there were only a

> few hits. Someone found

> an article on the subject and we were looking at the

> possiblity of

> monitering saliva as a prevention method or early

> warning system. Problems

> with acidity are a very marked effect in Equine

> metabolic Syndrome - they

> have lots of trouble with gastric ulcers, and often

> need buffering minerals

> and an alkalising diet. Ulcers are an obvious

> consequence, but laminitis is

> also linked to caecal acidity, leakage of exotoxins

> and vaso-active amines

> etc, and we think there may be broader more systemic

> 'cellular inflammation'

> which is linked to acidity somehow.

>

> They also certainly respond to many of the things

> you listed funnily

> enough - high level Vitamin E, ALA, Co Q10 - plus

> bio-flavinoids and mineral

> antioxidents like copper and selenium. We tend to

> avoid C somewhat because

> they should produce it themselves, and it frees up

> pro-oxident iron which is

> a problem in horses who have no mechanism for

> excretion.

>

> Horses never needed such heavy loading with extra

> anti-oxidents before, but

> I notice now the petfood companies are increasing

> their levels too.

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

 

=====

Anand Bapat

Pain Management Specialist

Sports Injury Specialist

Blacktown, Parramatta, Punchbowl, & Hammondville

0402 472 897

 

 

 

 

______________________

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In a message dated 9/27/2003 5:53:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

acubapat writes:

hi,

sounds like when one gtes exhausted due to stress

there is dumping of calcium.

isn't this osteoporosis. is this not what we talk

about loss of kid energy during some of the following

conditions.-- after delivery, during pregnancy,

overwork, exhaustion, high stress, lack of sleep

consistently, aging,

then is this nott the proof that we need as far a s

acupuncture is concerned.

why are we loking for corelating WM values to

acupuncture.

TRY & LOOK AT ACUPUNCTURE/TCM VALUES & HOW WM FITS

INTO THE MOULD.

this is so as TCM/AP has more depth as a science.

anand

Hi Anand,

 

I wouldn't say this is the only relation to Kid Qi depletion after

stressful situations. Particularly carrying and delivering a child. Not only

is

there are loss of calcium, but minerals in general, EFA's, digestive challenges,

adrenal challenges, hormone challenges and neurotransmitter challenges, among

others.

When carrying a child, a women's body is cranked, or turned on in a very

special way. It is allowed to operate at a level not normally available.

Almost every nutrient is drawn on at an accelerated rate. The women's body is

allowed to pull nutrients from deep levels if necessary to support the fetus.

I believe this is in part because of a powerful spiritual connection that

allows this accelerated energetic and emotional life to evolve though

pregnancy.

Post partem depression is in part because a spiritual connection that was

felt while pregnant, seems to dissolve, and the body is left with a severe

deficiency of nutrients and neurotransmitters.

This unquestionably effects the adrenals and would be considered Kid Qi

def.

 

Some ramblings after a long hard day,

 

Chris

 

 

 

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Chris Ive made changes in my diet I read alot of things online from

the www and the last 2 days I started eating okra and I believe its

the food that helped me the most. Its funny that this okra is a

common food in my culture that is known to help bowl functions, but I

was busy taking chinese herbs and not thinking about the food that

actually gives the help. I recommend Okra to anyone that has my

problem too. In 2 days my coated tongue is no more and my teeth marks

are less. I only have a large central crack and some red spots left

to take care of that shows on my tongue. I can digest easier. I will

order the enzymes soon and see how that works Ill tell you if it

helped me out or not. Next I need to fix my clogged up urine flow you

think uvi ursa is ok or is there better herbs or foods for that?

Thanks again for your words of wisdom. I will keep you updated about

my condition.

 

Chinese Medicine , Musiclear@a...

wrote:

> In a message dated 9/26/2003 8:15:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> Jackie@N... writes:

>

> > Problems

> > with acidity are a very marked effect in Equine metabolic

Syndrome - they

> > have lots of trouble with gastric ulcers, and often need

buffering minerals

> > and an alkalising diet. Ulcers are an obvious consequence, but

laminitis is

> > also linked to caecal acidity, leakage of exotoxins and vaso-

active amines

> > etc, and we think there may be broader more systemic 'cellular

inflammation'

> > which is linked to acidity somehow.

> >

>

> Most gastric ulcers are generally attributed to a bacterial

infection

> that most Western Docs treat with antibiotics. Although once a

person gets

> back on an alkaline diet, the infection happily seems to take care

of itself. I

> guess horses and Humans aren't that different ;-)

> The interesting thing about Vit C is that horses make their

own. Some

> forward thinking Docs have pointed out the possibility that Humans

used to

> make Vit C also, but from some genetic mishap we lost this

ability. A real drag

> as virtually all other animals create Vit C which prevents a myriad

of

> diseases that Humans are struggling with.

>

> All the best,

> Chris

>

>

>

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