Guest guest Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 In a message dated 9/1/03 11:11:13 PM, acudoc11 writes: > Hi Vanessa > > There are those who must continue to mouth-off without saying anything and > at > the same time get the last word. Let those have their last word because they > are ONLY meaningless words. > > Don't waste your time or energy. > You and many many others KNOW the truth. > Real tangible results speak for themselves. > Leave it at that. > Richard > One last comment from the person this is addressed to: It's about time. Jeez! There is a lot of meaning there! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 Since you insist on not stopping...then this should be answered. > I'm not offended, but merely annoyed. My reply was to unwarranted > accusations > that was made in a negative way, and not necessarily repeating the quote(s) > themsleves, in that folks of like temprament seem to be under the impression > > that if one repaeats something often enough, it must be true. I have seen > this > tactic used often and it is quite boring and an affront to the intelligence > of > readers. You should know very well about these kind of tactics since this is exactly what the visioning-steering forces have been doing for way too long. Parroting......such as is called 'bubba-meisters'.......like old story tellers. Tell it long enough and people believe you. <<However, I see no reason to continue advertising his " organization " and berating of others as it is not a stated charge of this venue, is it? >> One who is in the so called lime light and who touts themselves as being the spokes organization for the profession should not be afraid of taking responsibility for what has not been accomplishment over way too long of a period. Like a politician....stand up and show your accomplishments or stay quiet. <<To be truthful, if he just would beat his chest on his accomplishments and not try to second guess on conspiracy theories, I would care less, >> When you have accomplishments equal then we should all be proud to listen to your chest beating....yet we don't hear anything coming from that arena. <<so lets work to keep things positive in this BB and enjoy meaningful discussion.>> Oh so that should mean.....keep it to the status quo and go back to sleep in the ether. Nahhhhh, don't think so. You can sell that line of propaganda to some but not too many believe it. I am not ashamed to place my organization next to my name. At least it stands for something of real produced value. There is nothing being sold here....and those who wish to SEE with their own eyes what is going on...they can. Anyone has the opportunity to sign-off with their moniker and it not be considered commercial. Are you going to blast Bob Felt for signing off with Paradigm Press? I think not. So stop pointing your finger and do some constructive things to really move the AP/OM profession ahead. You still have not publicly answered why the AAOM and all the so-called visioning-steering organizations have NEVER supported the federal Acupuncture Bill HR1477 as it stands.......which would mandate all and only those 'qualified acupuncturists' as THE Statutory Providers of Acupuncture....in other words...recognized by the US Government. Now that is a constructive project we should ALL get together, get behind and accomplish. But somehow we suspect that that will not be forthcoming from the people & organizations who have taken-over and have been dictating what the vision should be for AP/OM. Richard Freiberg, OMD, NMD Founder/Director AOMNC <A HREF= " www.aomnc.com " >www.aomnc.com</A> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 I am glad someone here is saying it. It is a hard thing to say , but sometimes like in medicine things might not taste to good or not feel to good, but it is for the good in the end. So I am glad Richard is saying and he does a rack of a Job )) Vanessa >> acudoc11 wrote: Since you insist on not stopping...then this should be answered. > I'm not offended, but merely annoyed. My reply was to unwarranted > accusations > that was made in a negative way, and not necessarily repeating the quote(s) > themsleves, in that folks of like temprament seem to be under the impression > > that if one repaeats something often enough, it must be true. I have seen > this > tactic used often and it is quite boring and an affront to the intelligence > of > readers. You should know very well about these kind of tactics since this is exactly what the visioning-steering forces have been doing for way too long. Parroting......such as is called 'bubba-meisters'.......like old story tellers. Tell it long enough and people believe you. <<However, I see no reason to continue advertising his " organization " and berating of others as it is not a stated charge of this venue, is it? >> One who is in the so called lime light and who touts themselves as being the spokes organization for the profession should not be afraid of taking responsibility for what has not been accomplishment over way too long of a period. Like a politician....stand up and show your accomplishments or stay quiet. <<To be truthful, if he just would beat his chest on his accomplishments and not try to second guess on conspiracy theories, I would care less, >> When you have accomplishments equal then we should all be proud to listen to your chest beating....yet we don't hear anything coming from that arena. <<so lets work to keep things positive in this BB and enjoy meaningful discussion.>> Oh so that should mean.....keep it to the status quo and go back to sleep in the ether. Nahhhhh, don't think so. You can sell that line of propaganda to some but not too many believe it. I am not ashamed to place my organization next to my name. At least it stands for something of real produced value. There is nothing being sold here....and those who wish to SEE with their own eyes what is going on...they can. Anyone has the opportunity to sign-off with their moniker and it not be considered commercial. Are you going to blast Bob Felt for signing off with Paradigm Press? I think not. So stop pointing your finger and do some constructive things to really move the AP/OM profession ahead. You still have not publicly answered why the AAOM and all the so-called visioning-steering organizations have NEVER supported the federal Acupuncture Bill HR1477 as it stands.......which would mandate all and only those 'qualified acupuncturists' as THE Statutory Providers of Acupuncture....in other words...recognized by the US Government. Now that is a constructive project we should ALL get together, get behind and accomplish. But somehow we suspect that that will not be forthcoming from the people & organizations who have taken-over and have been dictating what the vision should be for AP/OM. Richard Freiberg, OMD, NMD Founder/Director AOMNC <A HREF= " www.aomnc.com " >www.aomnc.com</A> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 Hi Vanessa Obviously it isn't appreciated or understood here. I will spend my time elsewhere. Bye bye, Richard > I am glad someone here is saying it. > It is a hard thing to say , but sometimes like in medicine things might not > taste to good or not feel to good, but it is for the good in the end. > So I am glad Richard is saying and he does a rack of a Job )) > Vanessa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 hi richard, i think you should stay wih the group. youa re one of the few people who is bringing sanity to the discussions. you make them real & a good insight into the processes of what is going on. on the clinical & political side. i know alot of people do not realise the implications of your actions. but like a child. the child does not see why their parents are doing certain things. when they eventually grow up they realise that their parents did the correct thing. they follow suit. but this cycle continues on with every generation starting the same discussion & creating similar rift. i think your presence can assist in the growth of the group. stick in there. we are with you. we will grow into a great orgaisation - i sincerely believe. anand --- acudoc11 wrote: > Hi Vanessa > > Obviously it isn't appreciated or understood here. > I will spend my time elsewhere. > > Bye bye, > Richard > > > I am glad someone here is saying it. > > It is a hard thing to say , but sometimes like in > medicine things might not > > taste to good or not feel to good, but it is for > the good in the end. > > So I am glad Richard is saying and he does a rack > of a Job )) > > Vanessa > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ===== Anand Bapat Pain Management Specialist Sports Injury Specialist Blacktown, Parramatta, Punchbowl, & Hammondville 0402 472 897 ______________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger http://mail.messenger..co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 You are correct anand that the cycle starts over and over again with new practitioners who do not know what has come before and they/we go through the same debates. It becomes or feels almost like a tribal thing where oral traditions are passed along the line because many of these truths have not been written down for some obvious reasons. When we were students as today....we were sold a bill of goods that we will have a bright future because of the advancement....but I say that WE must MAKE our own bright future otherwise there is none. What I have to offer is basically......my own experience both in clinical practice and activist practice as I am not a politician nor do I wish to be one. Good logic must come first above all else - even when considering patients concerns. Unfortunately there will always be a few bad apples lurking in the midst who are not on board with the best growth of the group or the profession (no fingers being pointed at anyone - so no one should take offense) and that we must always be aware of. Common sense is part of good logic and it must prevail otherwise we are sheep moving to slaughter and never knowing it until one day.....ooops, it's too late and no one will be to blame except ourselves. This does not mean we have to be fanatical about those concerns.....yet still we must be vigilant in that awareness. It is like as you say a yound child.....like one who only sees in front of them as opposed to seeing/feeling 360 degrees around them. They tuck the front of their shirts in nice and neat but it remains hanging out of the pants in the rear. We need to learn awareness of all that goes on around us. This in a sense, I learned by sitting at the side of two masters in oriental medicine. In that way one doesn't miss many tricks. Still here, Richard > hi richard, > i think you should stay wih the group. youa re one of > the few people who is bringing sanity to the > discussions. you make them real & a good insight into > the processes of what is going on. on the clinical & > political side. > i know alot of people do not realise the implications > of your actions. but like a child. > the child does not see why their parents are doing > certain things. when they eventually grow up they > realise that their parents did the correct thing. they > follow suit. > but this cycle continues on with every generation > starting the same discussion & creating similar rift. > i think your presence can assist in the growth of the > group. > stick in there. we are with you. > we will grow into a great orgaisation - i sincerely > believe. > anand > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 When we were students as today....we were sold a bill of goods that we will have a bright future because of the advancement....but I say that WE must MAKE our own bright future otherwise there is none. Well said Richard! I have noticed to that, as Anand said the situation as in Australia, just a few % of students become practitioners, almost the same seems to be the case in Sweden. I guess some students learn TCM for their own spiritual needs, just because it gives reason and context to so much in life, but some believe they invested enough when done with the study and when there are more work to do and some rather tough, they fall back into their old profession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 Hi Holger and Anand, I wonder how many doctors who do any sort of AP studies, abridged or not use the information they gain? I was told by IVAS (International Vet Acp Society) that only 5% of vets who do IVAS course use AP. In my community, there was a doctor who did AP and she ended up referring clients to me. One of the important aspects of being a teacher that I have noticed is that you teach your old stuff and move on to conquer new heights. So perhaps it is important to keep increasing one's knowledge. Perhaps the AP associations should offer doctors a weekend course in understanding the basic acupuncture paradigm and who and when to refer on. Isn't there an old saying about making your enemy your friend? Sharon - Holger Wendt Chinese Medicine Friday, September 05, 2003 6:36 PM Re: Re: Re: Re: When we were students as today....we were sold a bill of goods that we will have a bright future because of the advancement....but I say that WE must MAKE our own bright future otherwise there is none. Well said Richard! I have noticed to that, as Anand said the situation as in Australia, just a few % of students become practitioners, almost the same seems to be the case in Sweden. I guess some students learn TCM for their own spiritual needs, just because it gives reason and context to so much in life, but some believe they invested enough when done with the study and when there are more work to do and some rather tough, they fall back into their old profession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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