Guest guest Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 Sofie, With regards to your earlier request for help with renal failure case (sorry I just didn't see it earlier) there are a few points I'd offer. A correct diagnosis that includes a thorough examination of the patient's constitutional condition is essential. Why did the kidney's fail? There are certainly lots of treatment avenues available using acupuncture and herbal medicine. But the key lies in accurate diagnosis. What are the pathomechanisms involved? Bing ji. Maybe if you can provide a complete picture of the signs and symptoms we could discuss it in more detail. I also have to tell a sad story. I had a friend and taiji student years ago who had a rare kidney condition that he managed to survive for ten full years by means of a range of so-called complementary and alternative approaches. He avoided his MD's advice to seek a transplant when he was first diagnosed at the age of 34. He also avoided dialysis up until the final stages when it rapidly became too late to save him. To me, his death taught a sobering lesson. I have no idea what the various options available to your case of renal failur might be. Ultimately, each of us chooses the way we deal with our various calamities. But it's a good idea to keep one's head clear of categorical imperatives such as strict avoidance of any and all Western Medical options, on the basis of some sort of ideological fixation. When I saw my friend in the hospital for the last time, I assure you he did not want to die. But at that point he'd used up his options, and there was nothing anybody could do for him. With respect to you patient who's coming soon with severe itching, there are some effective formulas in Sun Si Miao for these types of gynecological issues. I don't think that they've been translated or published in English. I'm going to check with a friend who has recently been working on that material and see what she has to suggest. But as in the earlier case, I'd stress the importance of ensuring that your diagnosis cleaves to the root of the problem. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 This one is ridden with red herrings. What is obvious, a Wood-Earth illness, may not be what is the real problem. If an intervention based on that were to help clear the Lichen and one never knew what the actual root was, that would be unforgivable. Tell you where I am going, so we can work together: I am thinking of a 3 Warmer illness, superimposed on which is the Wood Earth picture. *Look at the obvious Warmer profile based on pulse* A: Upper Warmer: LU-LI Full with HT-SI Floating - there is a +ve pressure here B: Middle Warmer: LV-GB choppy & ST-SP Choppy - there's an engorgement, stagnation here, a sort of Stasis C: Lower Warmer: K-UB Empty - there is a -ve pressure here The PC-SJ pulse is also Empty, and this can mean: a. The right chi position is Empty, or b. The whole 3 Warmers are running Empty, or is in imbalance.. *Now look at the obvious Torso profile based on symptoms* A: ? B: ? C: A Dry, Fluid-Blood lack registering on the Lower Warmer in terms of the severe Sclerosis. A -ve pressure presentation if there ever was one. Notice that you have taken cue from the Lichen, and given next to no symptoms for elsewhere on the body. Which is an example of preoccupation with presenting symptom and obviating the Design. If you look for it, you will find matching symptoms on the Upper Warmer of the Full, Red, Heat variety, that is at A.. And if you look for it, you will find matching symptoms on the Middle Warmer of the Stagnation, Impaction, Stasis, that is on B. The Design will then be either: A 3 Warmer illness which settled in to the Wood oppressing Earth profile, or a Wood oppressing Earth profile which became in time a 3 Warmer illness. A real red flag here: 'She is a 50 year old female in general good health' and ..... 'BP and rate is average.' Mae Jing Classic: If the general health is in the doldrums and the pulse is steady and seasonal, the illness will heal. If the general health seems flourishing and the pulse is debilitated, this is a grave condition. In that sense, the sclerosis is the least of the problems. Some questions: 1. Does she have a sensation of Heat at odd times or all the time? 2. Does the body temperature register a degree or so higher, lower? 3. Do her feet tend to Cold, at times, all the time? 4. Does she show Heat Above coupled with Cold Below? 5. Any other symptoms of Blood Consumed? Face color: 1. Is there a greenish tinge at the temples, orbit? 2. A dark hue under the eyes, somewhere on the face as just a shade. 3. Is there an obvious malar flush? Or a vestige of one with darker hues? 4. A yellowing shade at ST 8 on forehead? 5. In some sense, a differential in color and hue on the 3 thirds of the face, above, middle, below? Anything else you can provide to complete the picture of a 3 Warmer dissociation? Holmes www.acu-free.com 1.888.TCM.CEUS Michael A Gorman wrote: > > Dear colleagues, has anyone had any success treating Lichen > Sclerosis. This is a condition that causes scarring of the tissue on > the genitals. > My patient has been told that there is no cure. She is a 50 year old > female in general good health. She was diagnosed with the condition > several years ago. > Symtoms: severe itching and soreness of the vulva and inner labia, > vaginal walls very painfull, intercourse impossible due to pain.Very > emotional, tearfull, frustrated. > > Tongue: Thin, curled edges, dry yellow coat, red colour, shallow > indent in earth (sp/st) area. > > Pulses, LU/LI full, St/sp choppy,th/pc empty Liv/gb choppy, Ht/si sl > floating, bl/kid empty. > BP and rate is average. > In terms of 5 element diagnosis there appears to be some interaction > on the control cycle between wood and earth and the sides of the > tongue show some liv qi stagnation. > To add to this picture the patient was sexually abused as a child. > Gratefull for any help! > Kind regards > Mike Gorman Lic Ac BA(HONS)MBAcC > > http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > and > adjust accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > group requires prior permission from the author. > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other > academics, > > > > ------ > * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 - blueyonder Chinese Medicine acupuncture Monday, April 18, 2005 8:56 PM Fw: Lichen Sclerosis - blueyonder Chinese Medicine Monday, April 18, 2005 8:40 PM Re: Lichen Sclerosis Holmes, Thankyou for your swift response and valuable intuitive insight into this problem. I am pleased you have taken an interest . You are correct, I am guilty of initially taking my cue from the lichen. This patient's torso profile appears very normal, average height and weight with no noticeable skin discolouration on back chest or abdomen. On examination of the abdomen (5 element) earth and wood areas are tender, water area is slightly tender, other areas and front Mu points ok. Temperature of the abdomen is cool below the umbilicus, warm above. The pateints skin tone is very pale, almost white, no problems with nails, eyes or hair but her face can become quite red with blueish areas below the eye and slightly yellow around GB1. Lips are dry and crack easily. On her legs Sp4 , 6 & 9 are very tender also wood junctions. I have answered the other questions below to the best of my knowlege. I am due to travel to Spain to treat this patient for the second time next week so I would be very pleased to have your wisdom on this case. Kindest regards Mike - dkakobad Chinese Medicine Monday, April 18, 2005 3:18 PM Re: Lichen Sclerosis This one is ridden with red herrings. What is obvious, a Wood-Earth illness, may not be what is the real problem. If an intervention based on that were to help clear the Lichen and one never knew what the actual root was, that would be unforgivable. Tell you where I am going, so we can work together: I am thinking of a 3 Warmer illness, superimposed on which is the Wood Earth picture. *Look at the obvious Warmer profile based on pulse* A: Upper Warmer: LU-LI Full with HT-SI Floating - there is a +ve pressure here B: Middle Warmer: LV-GB choppy & ST-SP Choppy - there's an engorgement, stagnation here, a sort of Stasis C: Lower Warmer: K-UB Empty - there is a -ve pressure here The PC-SJ pulse is also Empty, and this can mean: a. The right chi position is Empty, or b. The whole 3 Warmers are running Empty, or is in imbalance.. *Now look at the obvious Torso profile based on symptoms* A: ? B: ? C: A Dry, Fluid-Blood lack registering on the Lower Warmer in terms of the severe Sclerosis. A -ve pressure presentation if there ever was one. Notice that you have taken cue from the Lichen, and given next to no symptoms for elsewhere on the body. Which is an example of preoccupation with presenting symptom and obviating the Design. If you look for it, you will find matching symptoms on the Upper Warmer of the Full, Red, Heat variety, that is at A.. And if you look for it, you will find matching symptoms on the Middle Warmer of the Stagnation, Impaction, Stasis, that is on B. The Design will then be either: A 3 Warmer illness which settled in to the Wood oppressing Earth profile, or a Wood oppressing Earth profile which became in time a 3 Warmer illness. A real red flag here: 'She is a 50 year old female in general good health' and .... 'BP and rate is average.' Mae Jing Classic: If the general health is in the doldrums and the pulse is steady and seasonal, the illness will heal. If the general health seems flourishing and the pulse is debilitated, this is a grave condition. In that sense, the sclerosis is the least of the problems. Some questions: 1. Does she have a sensation of Heat at odd times or all the time? occasional hot flushes 2. Does the body temperature register a degree or so higher, lower? Lower abdomen cool 3. Do her feet tend to Cold, at times, all the time? at times 4. Does she show Heat Above coupled with Cold Below? yes 5. Any other symptoms of Blood Consumed? Face color: 1. Is there a greenish tinge at the temples, orbit? greenish / yellow on GB1 2. A dark hue under the eyes, somewhere on the face as just a shade. slight blueish under eyes 3. Is there an obvious malar flush? Or a vestige of one with darker hues? when emotional 4. A yellowing shade at ST 8 on forehead? not noticed 5. In some sense, a differential in color and hue on the 3 thirds of the face, above, middle, below? Face generally red, forehead slightly yellow Anything else you can provide to complete the picture of a 3 Warmer dissociation? Holmes www.acu-free.com 1.888.TCM.CEUS Michael A Gorman wrote: > > Dear colleagues, has anyone had any success treating Lichen > Sclerosis. This is a condition that causes scarring of the tissue on > the genitals. > My patient has been told that there is no cure. She is a 50 year old > female in general good health. She was diagnosed with the condition > several years ago. > Symtoms: severe itching and soreness of the vulva and inner labia, > vaginal walls very painfull, intercourse impossible due to pain.Very > emotional, tearfull, frustrated. > > Tongue: Thin, curled edges, dry yellow coat, red colour, shallow > indent in earth (sp/st) area. > > Pulses, LU/LI full, St/sp choppy,th/pc empty Liv/gb choppy, Ht/si sl > floating, bl/kid empty. > BP and rate is average. > In terms of 5 element diagnosis there appears to be some interaction > on the control cycle between wood and earth and the sides of the > tongue show some liv qi stagnation. > To add to this picture the patient was sexually abused as a child. > Gratefull for any help! > Kind regards > Mike Gorman Lic Ac BA(HONS)MBAcC > > > > > > > > > http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > and > adjust accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > group requires prior permission from the author. > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other > academics, > > > > ------ > * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2005 Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 Clear heat. I prefer the Worsley treatment called aggessive energy. Drain BL13,14,15 (last), BL18,20,23 for 20 mins, right to left insertion. Leave in until redness around points clears. It may take more than one treatment. You can clear heat in other ways also. Reduce liver and treat earth as you see fit. Just keep treating her overall and support her emotionally. Giving her acupuncture treatments to balance her overall energy, reduce her anxiety and calm her emotions can be very helpful. Michael A Gorman wrote: > > Dear colleagues, has anyone had any success treating Lichen > Sclerosis. This is a condition that causes scarring of the tissue on > the genitals. > My patient has been told that there is no cure. She is a 50 year old > female in general good health. She was diagnosed with the condition > several years ago. > Symtoms: severe itching and soreness of the vulva and inner labia, > vaginal walls very painfull, intercourse impossible due to pain.Very > emotional, tearfull, frustrated. > > Tongue: Thin, curled edges, dry yellow coat, red colour, shallow > indent in earth (sp/st) area. > > Pulses, LU/LI full, St/sp choppy,th/pc empty Liv/gb choppy, Ht/si sl > floating, bl/kid empty. > BP and rate is average. > In terms of 5 element diagnosis there appears to be some interaction > on the control cycle between wood and earth and the sides of the > tongue show some liv qi stagnation. > To add to this picture the patient was sexually abused as a child. > Gratefull for any help! > Kind regards > Mike Gorman Lic Ac BA(HONS)MBAcC > > http://babel.altavista.com/ > > > and > adjust accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > group requires prior permission from the author. > > If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other > academics, > > > > ------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2005 Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 Thank you Anne, Very good advice, I will update you as the treatment progresses. Mike - " Anne Crowley " <blazing.valley <Chinese Medicine > Tuesday, April 19, 2005 3:30 AM Re: Lichen Sclerosis > > Clear heat. I prefer the Worsley treatment called aggessive energy. > Drain BL13,14,15 (last), BL18,20,23 for 20 mins, right to left > insertion. Leave in until redness around points clears. It may take > more than one treatment. You can clear heat in other ways also. Reduce > liver and treat earth as you see fit. Just keep treating her overall and > support her emotionally. Giving her acupuncture treatments to balance > her overall energy, reduce her anxiety and calm her emotions can be > very helpful. > Michael A Gorman wrote: > >> >> Dear colleagues, has anyone had any success treating Lichen >> Sclerosis. This is a condition that causes scarring of the tissue on >> the genitals. >> My patient has been told that there is no cure. She is a 50 year old >> female in general good health. She was diagnosed with the condition >> several years ago. >> Symtoms: severe itching and soreness of the vulva and inner labia, >> vaginal walls very painfull, intercourse impossible due to pain.Very >> emotional, tearfull, frustrated. >> >> Tongue: Thin, curled edges, dry yellow coat, red colour, shallow >> indent in earth (sp/st) area. >> >> Pulses, LU/LI full, St/sp choppy,th/pc empty Liv/gb choppy, Ht/si sl >> floating, bl/kid empty. >> BP and rate is average. >> In terms of 5 element diagnosis there appears to be some interaction >> on the control cycle between wood and earth and the sides of the >> tongue show some liv qi stagnation. >> To add to this picture the patient was sexually abused as a child. >> Gratefull for any help! >> Kind regards >> Mike Gorman Lic Ac BA(HONS)MBAcC >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> http://babel.altavista.com/ >> >> >> and >> adjust accordingly. >> >> Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the >> group requires prior permission from the author. >> >> If you are a TCM academic and wish to discuss TCM with other >> academics, >> >> >> >> ------ >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2005 Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 Thank you for the additional data. Till now 2 patterns have been established: 1. A Wood Aggressing Earth 5 E Design 2. A 3 Warmer dissociation. Working these to refine diagnosis: * abdominal Hara examination: <earth and wood areas are tender> this is a middle warmer manifestation on 3 Warmer pattern earth is ST in middle, SP to left, LV and GB to right <water area is slightly tender> this is a lower warmer manifestation on 3 Warmer pattern <Temperature of the abdomen is cool below the umbilicus, warm above> this is an upper warmer Hot - lower warmer Cool manifestation on 3 Warmer pattern * Face color diagnosis <her face can become quite red with blueish areas below the eye and slightly yellow around GB1> face red - free yang rising, or Heat, or ST qi rising bluish areas below eye - Wood is in Discomfiture, has backed up into Water slightly yellow around GB 1 - ST encroaching upon LV Wood this is an incredibly important sign and shows a counter attack by ST on Wood by custom GB ought to have shown green or blue, yellow is the color of the oppressed E, if it shows in LV area, a Counter is established <Lips are dry and crack easily> SP of Earth in Disarray SP not Damp anymore, Dry may have come from LU Yin Dry, but in this case has most likely resulted from LV Blood Consumed * Meridian diagnosis On her legs Sp4 , 6 & 9 are very tender also wood junctions. another affirmation, though weak, of ST under duress by Wood Differential diagnosis: 2 patterns more or less established: 1. A Wood Aggressing Earth 5 E Design 2. A 3 Warmer dissociation. Which one caused which? Which came first? Organs are children of Warmer parents, and will take cue from these. On the other hand errant children cam affect Warmer parents to distraction. By the face color a Wood Aggressing Earth 5 E Design manifests strongly, supported by the tongue which shows an Earth fissure and Wood curled edges <Tongue: Thin, curled edges, dry yellow coat, red color, shallow indent in earth (sp/st) area> thin edge - LV Blood lacking curled edges - so much so the contour is gone dry yellow coat - ST Heat to a dangerous extent red color - Heat, tending to Fire [tie this in with the red color of face] shallow indent - this is a much larger fissure, is looking small because tongue is scrunched up much information till lacks, esp on face color an past illnesses, and how the illness behan and progressed. However we can sublimate now. Diagnosis: 1. A Wood Aggressing Earth 5 E Design 2. A 3 Warmer dissociation in that order. Treatment: Treat 1 as a priority, and 2 as a supportive. Once LV Blood begins to flow, and LV qi goes past the genital loop, most of the sclerosis will be contained and in time healed entirely. If there is anything more which can be done write in. Holmes www.acu-free.com 1.888.TCM.CEUS blueyonder wrote: > > Holmes, > Thankyou for your swift response and valuable intuitive insight into > this problem. I am pleased you have taken an interest . You are > correct, I am guilty > of initially taking my cue from the lichen. This patient's torso > profile appears very normal, average height and weight with no > noticeable skin discolouration on back chest or abdomen. > On examination of the abdomen (5 element) earth and wood areas are > tender, water area is slightly tender, other areas and front Mu points > ok. Temperature of the abdomen is cool below the umbilicus, warm > above. The pateints skin tone is very pale, almost white, no problems > with nails, eyes or hair but her face can become quite red with > blueish areas below the eye and slightly yellow around GB1. Lips are > dry and crack easily. On her legs Sp4 , 6 & 9 are very tender also > wood junctions. I have answered the other questions below to the best > of my knowlege. I am due to travel to Spain to treat this patient for > the second time next week so I would be very pleased to have your > wisdom on this case. > Kindest regards > Mike > > - > dkakobad > Chinese Medicine > Monday, April 18, 2005 3:18 PM > Re: Lichen Sclerosis > > > This one is ridden with red herrings. > > What is obvious, a Wood-Earth illness, may not be what is the real > problem. > > If an intervention based on that were to help clear the Lichen and one > never > knew what the actual root was, that would be unforgivable. > > Tell you where I am going, so we can work together: I am thinking of a 3 > Warmer > illness, superimposed on which is the Wood Earth picture. > > *Look at the obvious Warmer profile based on pulse* > > A: Upper Warmer: LU-LI Full with HT-SI Floating - there is a +ve > pressure here > > B: Middle Warmer: LV-GB choppy & ST-SP Choppy - there's an engorgement, > stagnation here, a sort of Stasis > > C: Lower Warmer: K-UB Empty - there is a -ve pressure here > > The PC-SJ pulse is also Empty, and this can mean: > a. The right chi position is Empty, or > b. The whole 3 Warmers are running Empty, or is in imbalance.. > > *Now look at the obvious Torso profile based on symptoms* > > A: ? > > B: ? > > C: A Dry, Fluid-Blood lack registering on the Lower Warmer in terms of > the severe > Sclerosis. A -ve pressure presentation if there ever was one. > > Notice that you have taken cue from the Lichen, and given next to no > symptoms for > elsewhere on the body. Which is an example of preoccupation with > presenting > symptom and obviating the Design. > > If you look for it, you will find matching symptoms on the Upper Warmer > of the Full, Red, Heat variety, that is at A.. > > And if you look for it, you will find matching symptoms on the Middle > Warmer > of the Stagnation, Impaction, Stasis, that is on B. > > The Design will then be either: > A 3 Warmer illness which settled in to the Wood oppressing Earth > profile, or > a Wood oppressing Earth profile which became in time a 3 Warmer illness. > > A real red flag here: > 'She is a 50 year old female in general good health' and > .... 'BP and rate is average.' > > Mae Jing Classic: > > If the general health is in the doldrums and the pulse is steady > and seasonal, the illness will heal. > > If the general health seems flourishing and the pulse is debilitated, > this is a grave condition. > > In that sense, the sclerosis is the least of the problems. > > Some questions: > > 1. Does she have a sensation of Heat at odd times or all the time? > occasional hot flushes > 2. Does the body temperature register a degree or so higher, lower? > Lower abdomen cool > 3. Do her feet tend to Cold, at times, all the time? at times > 4. Does she show Heat Above coupled with Cold Below? yes > 5. Any other symptoms of Blood Consumed? > > Face color: > 1. Is there a greenish tinge at the temples, orbit? greenish / yellow > on GB1 > 2. A dark hue under the eyes, somewhere on the face as just a shade. > slight blueish under eyes > 3. Is there an obvious malar flush? Or a vestige of one with darker > hues? when emotional > 4. A yellowing shade at ST 8 on forehead? not noticed > 5. In some sense, a differential in color and hue on the 3 thirds of the > face, > above, middle, below? Face generally red, forehead slightly yellow > > Anything else you can provide to complete the picture of a 3 Warmer > dissociation? > > Holmes > www.acu-free.com > 1.888.TCM.CEUS > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 Hi There.. mY mom has Lichen Sclerosis and it gives her terrible pain in her genitals.. is there any thing that can help? heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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