Guest guest Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Hello My name is Erin, I have d to this group for a long time, but hardly post as I have been so busy with mothering and midwifing the last few years. I am exploring our current health crisis and I have posted the not below on other Ayuvedic groups with no response, so I am wondering if you all here have any words of wisdom you can share. Thank you! Warmly, Erin in NM I have been learning about and practicing Ayurveda (in my personal life) on and off for a few years now. I live in New Mexico and have had the privilege of going to the Ayurvedic Institute in Albuquerque for consultations through the years. I am also a midwife, and do incorporate basic Ayurvedic principles into my practice. Currently, my son who is 20 months old, has been having eczema/GI issues for the past 5 months, roughly 3 months after he began to regularly eat solid foods. We've taken a somewhat mixed approach to dealing with it, ranging from elimination diets to allergy testing. At this point we have identified a number of suspected " triggers " that we have eliminated from his diet, and are essentially doing a pitta and kapha pacifying diet as he is PK, and was recently diagnosed with a pitta pushing kapha imbalance. I have done so much research on food intolerances, detox pathways, and gut healing in my efforts to solve his condition. While he has shown some improvement after eliminating gluten and some other pitta aggrivating foods, he still has flare ups. My goal is to strengthen his system---his digestion and his gut flora so that we can get to a point where his body can process these foods more effectively. I had hoped to start him on kefir and kimchee (and possibly kombucha), as I prefer to recolonize his gut with beneficial bacteria and probiotics from food rather than suppements alone, and my understanding is that kefir is far superior to yogurt in this regard. We had been doing goat yogurt (store bought) for some time prior to eliminating all dairy a few months ago (goat yogurt was his main source of dairy anyway. Our Ayurvedic doc cautioned against introducing these foods as part of our healing regimine, because they may agrivate Pitta, and are egenrally not favored, so my plan was a bit blown out of the water! I understand that fermented foods are not highly valued in Ayurveda and are believed to be toxic when consumed regularly. I am hoping someone can explain to me the mechanics of this, ie. exactly how and why are fermented foods toxic? I intuitively feel that recolonizing his intestinal flora and strengthening his gut will help heal him, and I am saddened that my plan opposes conventional Ayuvedic wisdom. I would appreciate any insights into this issue! And I look forward to learning much here, and getting to know you all. Warmly, Erin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Hi Erin - Irresistably though with other things on my desk, I'd like to take a few minutes on your question, without the level of detail I'd like. Based upon my understanding of Eczema and possible causes in addition to the food thing you are attending to so well, we should look at * possible causes for pitta in the liver, * this little beings temperment (what time of year was he born - was it still hot weather?) both from doshic and 3 gunas point of view, * and even the astrological influences may be looked at. This latter is because when lots of layers of wise attention are not giving desired results, there may be other influences on non-physical that can help clarify. We have at least 2 vedic astrolagers on the group who are very good this way. Did the doc recommend manjista in an herbal formula? Specific to the cultured foods, Ayurveda says freshly made yoghurt or kefir is not a problem, but as most people use it, after a day or 3 it becomes pitta increasing, more sour. Rashes have to be addressed as a pitta issue, at whatever level it is manifesting or caused. THough there may be need and support for his healing from recolonizing the gut better, it is not the root cause by my understanding. In general, fermented foods are created by processes that engage a breakdown of the food's natural energy into something else. The energy becomes rajasic and tamasic. I would encourage you to look up these three words (also sattva), and their emototional/mental influences - even on the liver. Also the types of foods which create which. I describe fermented foods influence to my students for postpartum - where they are also contraindicated, even if very digestible, becase there it is a situation needing rapid rejuvenation and what Ayurveda calls sattva. And the energy of fermenteds is degenerative. Yes, the decomposing food is replaced by the life force of the colonizing organisms. However the process involved is enhancing to degeneration. Yes, it is grounding too, but also slows down regeneration/rejuvenation and positive pure life force, they say. And kapha imbalances often become exacerbated by tamasic influences as well as weakened digestion. Weakened digestion also comes about not just from flora. A baby's agni (digestive " fires " or enzyme processes, there are like adults many) I see often gets messed up with imbalance of foods and insufficient seasonings. In his case, the gentle pungents like cumin and coriander and fennel, and the gentle bitters like fenugreek, turmeric, and fresh ginger possibly also I would use it if was my baby, in small amounts. Fenugreek and turmeric have interesting restorative properties for the gut. So does slippery elm tea, and according to an Edgar Cayce doc, American Saffron (not to be confused with the regular saffron, this is really safflower I think). These last two to be used in tea or soaked in water, not taken together he said. ONe in am, the other pm. It may recolonize as needed in the gut - we have to look at all these things in their own best balance of course. And my approach to Ayurveda though as a teacher, my students know is exacting to the principles, in practice is practical to what the client will do and can do. So I do not know the balance of importance on this advice, except to suggest if you use kefir (which I highly regard for many reasons), use it freshly made. New Mexico being of course a hotter drier climate, makes it more challenging to deal with a pitta disorder. I'm not an expert at all on eczema though have done some deep research on psoriasis for a friend and came to understand its common roots with eczema. Good luck, thank you for bringing this up and please let us know what you learn and how it goes? I hope this helps. I'd love to get together when I'm back in NM, if we can create the time and purpose. Irrepressably yours, YSha > Currently, my son who is 20 months old, has been having eczema/GI issues for the past 5 months, roughly 3 months after he began to regularly eat solid foods. We've taken a somewhat mixed approach to dealing with it, ranging from elimination diets to allergy testing. > > At this point we have identified a number of suspected " triggers " that we have eliminated from his diet, and are essentially doing a pitta and kapha pacifying diet as he is PK, and was recently diagnosed with a pitta pushing kapha imbalance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Thank you Ysha for your thoughtful, warm, informative reply. -- In ayurveda , " Ysha Oakes " <AyurDoulas wrote: > Based upon my understanding of Eczema and possible causes in addition to the food thing you are attending to so well, we should look at > > * possible causes for pitta in the liver, > * this little beings temperment (what time of year was he born - was it still hot weather?) both from doshic and 3 gunas point of view, > * and even the astrological influences may be looked at. Yes, he is a VERY fiery soul. I knew it from the moment he was conceived. He jumped around my utrus the entire time he was in there and I knew he was going to be a fireball. Born on July 6. > Did the doc recommend manjista in an herbal formula? Not that I can tell---the handwriting is difficult to read however! > Specific to the cultured foods, Ayurveda says freshly made yoghurt > or kefir is not a problem, but as most people use it, after a day > > or 3 it becomes pitta increasing, more sour. Ok, I am not sure it would have the same probiotic benefit if it were consumed after such a short time...Perhaps I will just abandon this whole kefir idea.... >Rashes have to be addressed as a pitta issue, at whatever level it >is manifesting or caused. THough there may be need and support for >his healing from recolonizing the gut better, it is not the root >cause by my understanding. Yes, I agree. I do feel intuitively though that strengthening his gut flora would help his digestion, and help break down those things that he is consuming that are not digesting well, and provoking all his pitta and eczema. Perhaps this is more of a western view. I have spent so much time researching his condition from a variety of perspectives. For a long time I just took what I knew and intuited from Ayurveda, and continued to live my life, incorporating the principles that made sense and worked for me. Now, I have had to re-learn much and explore more thoroughly many things, especially with regard to food characteristics, rasa, virya, prabhav, agni, etc. It has been a struggle to attempt to follow Ayurvedic principles as our primary healing approach. When we follow stricly pitta-kapha pacifying diets, he stil has flare ups and reacts to certain foods, so we have to remove those foods. While I don't want to be eliminating so many foods in the long term, I want to spare him the discomfort of the flare ups right now. And because we have removed many foods, we are limited as to what we can eat, and have to consume a fair amount of pitta agrivating grains in particular so that we are not living on rice alone. I am nursing and this whole process has been tough on me as well. > In general, fermented foods are created by processes that engage a >breakdown of the food's natural energy into something else. The >energy becomes rajasic and tamasic.....And the energy of fermenteds >is degenerative. Yes, the decomposing food is replaced by the life >force of the colonizing organisms. However the process involved is >enhancing to degeneration. Yes, it is grounding too, but also slows >down regeneration/rejuvenation and positive pure life force, they >say. Thank you for explaining this Ysha. I will have to think on this topic more. I wonder what cultural and environmental conditions in historic India may have contributed to these paticular assessments of fermented foods---not that I necessarily disagree, but am hoping to understand the influences in this matter. > A baby's agni (digestive " fires " or enzyme processes, there are >like adults many) I see often gets messed up with imbalance of foods >and insufficient seasonings. In his case, the gentle pungents like >cumin and coriander and fennel, and the gentle bitters like >fenugreek, turmeric, and fresh ginger possibly also I would use it >if was my baby, in small amounts. We generally cook with all of these, although not fenugreek for teh most part. It is true that my son probably has consumed to many heating spices, peppers and ginger for his constitution. We love fresh ginger and tumeric. >Fenugreek and turmeric have interesting restorative properties for the gut. Thank you! Good to know! I have been thinking of making a fennel infusion of sorts to help before bedtime, like a " Gripe Water " of sorts, and have been wondering what else to add. Maybe I wil try fennel, fenugreek and tumeric? > if you use kefir (which I highly regard for many reasons), use it freshly made. Ok, so you are a fan of kefir? I may give it a try as our next food to be re-introduced and see how he handles it. SO far teh only dairy he has had is goat yogurt and some cheeses. DO you prefer goat kefor over cow kefor? And what about the non-dairy kefirs like water and cocount kefirs? These are very popular in th allergic-child NFL community. > I'd love to get together when I'm back in NM, if we can create the time and purpose. Yes, I would love this as well. We are a bit north of Santa Fe. Warmly, Erin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 I don't know if it was clear from my last reply that I had injected comments throughout so I am reposting again below. Thanks! > Thank you Ysha for your thoughtful, warm, informative reply. > > -- In ayurveda , " Ysha Oakes " <AyurDoulas@> wrote: > > > Based upon my understanding of Eczema and possible causes in addition to the food thing you are attending to so well, we should look at > > > > * possible causes for pitta in the liver, > > * this little beings temperment (what time of year was he born - was it still hot weather?) both from doshic and 3 gunas point of view, > > * and even the astrological influences may be looked at. > > Yes, he is a VERY fiery soul. I knew it from the moment he was conceived. He jumped around my utrus the entire time he was in there and I knew he was going to be a fireball. Born on July 6. > > > > Did the doc recommend manjista in an herbal formula? > > Not that I can tell---the handwriting is difficult to read however! > > > > Specific to the cultured foods, Ayurveda says freshly made yoghurt > or kefir is not a problem, but as most people use it, after a day > > or 3 it becomes pitta increasing, more sour. > > Ok, I am not sure it would have the same probiotic benefit if it were consumed after such a short time...Perhaps I will just abandon this whole kefir idea.... > > >Rashes have to be addressed as a pitta issue, at whatever level it >is manifesting or caused. THough there may be need and support for >his healing from recolonizing the gut better, it is not the root >cause by my understanding. > > Yes, I agree. I do feel intuitively though that strengthening his gut flora would help his digestion, and help break down those things that he is consuming that are not digesting well, and provoking all his pitta and eczema. Perhaps this is more of a western view. I have spent so much time researching his condition from a variety of perspectives. For a long time I just took what I knew and intuited from Ayurveda, and continued to live my life, incorporating the principles that made sense and worked for me. Now, I have had to re-learn much and explore more thoroughly many things, especially with regard to food characteristics, rasa, virya, prabhav, agni, etc. > > It has been a struggle to attempt to follow Ayurvedic principles as our primary healing approach. When we follow stricly pitta-kapha pacifying diets, he stil has flare ups and reacts to certain foods, so we have to remove those foods. While I don't want to be eliminating so many foods in the long term, I want to spare him the discomfort of the flare ups right now. And because we have removed many foods, we are limited as to what we can eat, and have to consume a fair amount of pitta agrivating grains in particular so that we are not living on rice alone. I am nursing and this whole process has been tough on me as well. > > > > In general, fermented foods are created by processes that engage a >breakdown of the food's natural energy into something else. The >energy becomes rajasic and tamasic.....And the energy of fermenteds >is degenerative. Yes, the decomposing food is replaced by the life >force of the colonizing organisms. However the process involved is >enhancing to degeneration. Yes, it is grounding too, but also slows >down regeneration/rejuvenation and positive pure life force, they >say. > > Thank you for explaining this Ysha. I will have to think on this topic more. I wonder what cultural and environmental conditions in historic India may have contributed to these paticular assessments of fermented foods---not that I necessarily disagree, but am hoping to understand the influences in this matter. > > > A baby's agni (digestive " fires " or enzyme processes, there are >like adults many) I see often gets messed up with imbalance of foods >and insufficient seasonings. In his case, the gentle pungents like >cumin and coriander and fennel, and the gentle bitters like >fenugreek, turmeric, and fresh ginger possibly also I would use it >if was my baby, in small amounts. > > We generally cook with all of these, although not fenugreek for teh most part. It is true that my son probably has consumed to many heating spices, peppers and ginger for his constitution. We love fresh ginger and tumeric. > > >Fenugreek and turmeric have interesting restorative properties for the gut. > > Thank you! Good to know! I have been thinking of making a fennel infusion of sorts to help before bedtime, like a " Gripe Water " of sorts, and have been wondering what else to add. Maybe I wil try fennel, fenugreek and tumeric? > > > > if you use kefir (which I highly regard for many reasons), use it freshly made. > > Ok, so you are a fan of kefir? I may give it a try as our next food to be re-introduced and see how he handles it. SO far teh only dairy he has had is goat yogurt and some cheeses. > DO you prefer goat kefor over cow kefor? And what about the non-dairy kefirs like water and cocount kefirs? These are very popular in th allergic-child NFL community. > > > I'd love to get together when I'm back in NM, if we can create the time and purpose. > > Yes, I would love this as well. We are a bit north of Santa Fe. > > Warmly, > Erin > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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