fibromyalgia

[Guest guest]

Chinese Traditional Medicine , Cat <iceisit@e...> wrote:

>

 

Hi Cat

 

I am sorry about your diagnosis of fibromyalgia. I have had both

fibromyalgia and cfids for 7yrs. and it has been a struggle.

when i first got sick i didn't know what i had and doctors either

were blowing me off, telling me- everyone feels tired- everyone

gets achs and pains- but for me, i went to sleep one night a healthy

32 year old woman and woke up the next morning feeling like a very

sick 92 year old woman.

at first i went through the tons of medication that the hand full of

doctors who believed me thought i should be on- and I also tried

p/t and whatever else they told me to try. but i kept getting sicker

and finally at some point I just stopped everything and just kinda

floated for awhile- not really knowing what to do and becoming very

depressed along the way. Its a very isolating illness if you don't

find people to support and comfort you.

 

it's been a very long 7 years to where i am now- I am seeing an

acupuncturiest who has me on chinese herbs- I'm also meditating

every day, some days 2x a day- and I'm trying to eat better- I

strongly believe that stress does make this illness worse- and right

now I am under a huge amount of stress- so the new steps I have

taken to try and heal are very small, until my stressful life calms

down and I can refocus my energies on healing.

I hope I can help you if you have any questions or if you just need

to vent-

be well

bernadette

 

..

>

> After further reading it appears with the great amount of pain I

have that the diagnosis of Fibromyalgia seems to fit. I have an

appt. with a Rhumatoid specialist May 3. I am not taking any

medication but I want to see whether the doc has the latest blood

tests which will diagnose Fibromyalgia.

>

> I had been talking to my internist for years about my symptoms

which she didn't comment too much upon as I had other things going

on at the time, like developing allergies and asthma. Now that the

asthma is much better after I stopped drinking coffee and have put

fresh lime juice all over my apartment, that is better. I haven't

had

> bronchitis this winter or last summer, and usually I get it 3-4

times per year.

>

> Meanwhile - my diet I believe is not my problem. Stress is. 80%

of it is out of my control First my husband's snoring kept me

awake for 8 years until I convinced that he DID in fact snore and

needed to see a sleep specialist.

> THEN after he got a CPAP machine, the neighbors below us wake me

several times a night. In ten years I have not had a decent nights

sleep and I cannot afford to go to a bread and breakfast to get one.

>

> One of the problems with Fibromyalgia is that lack of deep REM

sleep aggravates the situation. I have gone back to taking calcium

and melatonin before bed. I stopped because my acupuncturist said

it was bad to take anything before sleeping as it was hard on my

stomach. So I am between a rock and a sharp place.

>

> I did find that use my Shiatsu machine this morning when I awoke

for a half hour in various places allowed me to get up and go to the

rink for 45 minutes.

>

> Two weeks ago I skated 2 hours and then played an hour of tennis

afterwards. I did that M,W, Fr, and the next week I couldn't do

anything.

>

> I did not realize I might have a disease which can cause a relapse

until Sat. when I was reading.

>

> So I assume that much of this in TCM is because meridians are out

of balance. It I massage all of the points I find which hurt every

day and do some Reike healing on myself, and try to keep the stress

to a minimum, I am hoping that I can recover from this.

>

> Too bad when I kept decribing bone crushing fatigue for years to

doctors along with painful swelling in hands and feet which made it

difficult for me to walk much of the time, that SOMEONE didn't

figure something out.

>

> I thought it was allergies and it is probably aggravated by that

because of I do have severe allergies to mold and some other

airborne things. But I do not eat wheat, corn, yeast, egg whites,

alfafa sprouts and other things to which I am allergic. I have

eaten 85-90% organic food my entire life and don't drink tap

water.

>

> So it has to be environmental pollutants plus stress along with my

genetic disposition to such things.

>

> After reading one article on Fibromyalgia and its connection to

the liver it made purrfect sense with all the problems I have had

with my liver the past 9 months. But my liver and stomach are

better.

>

> In order to take the supplements I need for the Fibromyalgia I got

some 100% Aloe juice (no additives of any kind) so buffer my stomach

a little bit. About ten years ago I took it for my stomach a short

time and it really helped.

> I used to take acidopholous for a month after each dose of

antibiotics.

>

> But apparently with Fibromyalgia there is something which keeps

killing the good flora on a daily basis so I am going back to taking

it every day and see what happens.

>

> I don't know if any of you have heard of SAMe - it is supposed to

affect the serotonin (depression) in the brain as well as help with

pain. That is the only supplement which I have never taken

before as I got some yesterday.

>

> That stuff along with the daily meridian work should help. I'll

return to acupuncture when I save some money.

> Since I cannot do TCM on myself, per se, I'll work with the liver,

kidney meridians and whatever else hurts.

>

> If anyone has any suggestions I would very much appreciate them.

>

> Cheers, Cat

>

>

> ^. .^ ~

[Guest guest]

ther are herbs that are generally recognized as useful for liver problems. It

is difficult if not impossible to say which ones are best for you without

knowing the particulars of your case, i.e milk thistle, blessed thistle,

goldenseal,hawthorne berries and many others. If you go to the site Itm online

and do

a search on fibrimyalgia you should come up with some very helpful

information.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

A teaspoon of applecider vinegar in the morning helps to cleans the body and

helps diminish aches and pains. I find that the pains are lessened if your

bowels are clean so concider colon cleansing as well in your treatment plans,

Rabaih

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Support the adrenals glands immune system ..... Keep all types of stress down

Find nutritional sources of Calcium and Magnesium. This has helped others in

many ways

Good luck

 

mjdavis108 <mjd_subs2 wrote:

Hi Cat!

 

Boy, if I did not know better, I would think you and I were the same

person. Geez!

 

I have Fibromyalgia, but it's undiagnosed. My doctor does not think

it's real. However, he can't explain the falling down, constant

pain or other mystery ailments. I even developed the asthma and

allergies!

 

I've never been a big coffee drinker, but I've given up soda and all

dairy products. I literally walked around with a sinus infection

constantly. I haven't had an asthma attack in over six months now.

 

I stopped taking all the medications they gave me. I weaned off

about a year ago and am going completely natural. I drink Green Tea

every day and Peppermint tea for my ulcer. I don't have a sure-fire

remedy for the constant pain yet, but I am working on it.

 

If you ever need someone to listen, please feel free to email me.

It's hard not feeling very well every single day. I truly

understand.

 

Keep shining!

mjd

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

mjdavis108 wrote:

>Hi Cat!

>

>Boy, if I did not know better, I would think you and I were the same

>person. Geez!

>

>I have Fibromyalgia, but it's undiagnosed. My doctor does not think

>it's real. However, he can't explain the falling down, constant

>pain or other mystery ailments. I even developed the asthma and

>allergies!

 

Hi - I developed allergies when I moved to the East coast and about

two years ago became very asthmatic. The first two winters I was sick

all the time. This past winter I didn't have lung problems (other problems

cropped up instead).

 

>I've never been a big coffee drinker, but I've given up soda and all

>dairy products.

 

I like Diet Pepsi and I cut that out as well. I really try to limit the

dairy but the is the WORST of my habits. Cheese on occasion.

 

>I literally walked around with a sinus infection

>constantly. I haven't had an asthma attack in over six months now.

 

great Sounds similar to my pattern.

 

>I stopped taking all the medications they gave me. I weaned off

>about a year ago and am going completely natural. I drink Green Tea

>every day and Peppermint tea for my ulcer.

 

Have you tried the 100% aloe juice.

 

>I don't have a sure-fire

>remedy for the constant pain yet, but I am working on it.

 

I changed my exercise regime and will report back on that in a month or so.

 

>If you ever need someone to listen, please feel free to email me.

>It's hard not feeling very well every single day. I truly

>understand.

 

Totally. At first I thought there was some flu bug going around . . .and then

I thought

my back and neck were just stiff and hurting from stress. But the amount of

pain

continued to grow and I thought something must be wrong here. I noticed when

I didn't have nearly enough strength that something must really be wrong.

 

I am going to take magnesium in addition to my regular combo calcium stuff and

see

whether that helps. Thanks for your support and I might just take you

up on your offer. Cheers, Cat

 

 

^. .^ ~

[Guest guest]

Hi... try to see fibromyalgia as Bi syndrome... there are some Liver

Stagnation involved, but usually not at the moment...somewhere, in the

past....

Tui Na and auriculotherapy are my favorite ways to deal with it...tonifying

Gall Blader helps a lot too...

I hope it helps..

Roberta

 

Terapias Orientais

www.robertablanco.com.br

[Guest guest]

yes lime works the same as vinegar as a digestive aid, but lime is drying ,

and ai think that vinegar is neutral, leaning more to the warming side.

rabiah

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

itmonline I hope this link works for you if not try this

http://www.itmonline.org/

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> Hi... try to see fibromyalgia as Bi syndrome... there are some Liver

> Stagnation involved, but usually not at the moment...somewhere, in

the

> past....

 

For those new to TCM, Bi Syndrome, aka Painful Obstruction Syndrome,

very often is a factor in Fibromyalgia Syndrome (FMS). If know I tend

to have more problems when it gets Cold and especially if it is windy

if I'm not on TCM treatment. The muscles get stiff and painful. As

soon as the weather warms, the muscles loosen up again and pain

decreases.

 

According to Bob Flaws in one of his books, the primary imbalances

seen in cases of FMS are Liver, Kidneys, Spleen, and Heart.

 

> Tui Na and auriculotherapy are my favorite ways to deal with

it...tonifying

> Gall Blader helps a lot too...

 

Massage helped me a lot. As did acupressure.

 

Now for the " good " news about FMS. People with FMS have an advantage

in learning acupressure because so many of the acupoints are painful.

You have no trouble finding them. Sometimes you don't even have to

press on a spot to discover it's painful. You can feel it without

pressure. Kidney 1 (on the middle of the sole of the foot) is one of

these for me. When I overdo, I get a soreness in the center of the

sole of my foot that I can feel even without pressing on the area.

 

BTW, I've never known a person with FMS who didn't have a lot more

sore spots than just the 18 used to diagnose it.

 

Victoria

[Guest guest]

I just found this book in Sam's Club on the subject of fibromyalgia and

thought that some here might be interested in this doctor's theory about this

problem (it involves the kidney not being able to properly maintain mineral

balances). It is an interesting protocol and seems to help some, but personally

I

wonder how he cannot see that as the medication (BTW in lower doses this drug is

OTC) he uses is derived from an herb (guiacom, or ironwood) that herbs cannot

be the enemy he seems to feel they are (well maybe they are when the

synthetic deriviative is used, but I still wonder if the proper herbs wouldn't

cure

this problem rather than just mask it).

 

Anyway for those who are curious and have an open mind to looking into all

ideas (though not perhaps following what it says--I don't think I would as I

have seen herbs help too often to put them in the ashheap and this guy even

seems

to even dis the herb from which the drug he uses is derived, the height of

irony!) I post this book:

 

What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Firbromyalgia by R. Paul St. Amand,

M.D. and Claudia Craig Marek

 

Sarah

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

topshelf wrote:

>ther are herbs that are generally recognized as useful for liver problems. It

>is difficult if not impossible to say which ones are best for you without

>knowing the particulars of your case, i.e milk thistle, blessed thistle,

>goldenseal,hawthorne berries and many others. If you go to the site Itm online

and do

>a search on fibrimyalgia you should come up with some very helpful

>information.

 

what site is that .. . . would you have the URL handy

 

I put in ITm online and didn't find anything Thanks - Cat

 

 

^. .^ ~

[Guest guest]

topshelf wrote:

>A teaspoon of applecider vinegar in the morning helps to cleans the body and

>helps diminish aches and pains. I find that the pains are lessened if your

>bowels are clean so concider colon cleansing as well in your treatment plans,

>Rabaih

 

Thanks - does lime work the same as vigenar ?

 

Cat

 

 

^. .^ ~

[Guest guest]

Here is something I am now trying to reduce the slight muscle stiffness I

occasionally have ( I am hypothyroid) and that is cherry juice. I was steered

in

this direction by the Dr. Mercola site (he was recommending some blueberry

juice concentrate and I got on the site where he purchases it for resale on his

site--there I found cherry juice which helps some with gout and others with

fibromyalgia, though it is not claimed as a cure). Anyway, I have been on it

for a week, too soon to tell if all my minor aches will disappear. Always

hopeful. Meanwhile I know that red cherries are good for the heart and are

warming

(something which helps cold dampness).

 

At least one person has written a book connecting some fibromyalgia to low

body temperatures and hypothyroidism. The book is called Your Guide to

Metabolic Health by Dr. Gina Honeyman-Lowe and Dr. John C. Lewis (these people

are

chiropractors, not M.D.'s).

 

Sarah

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Roberta Blanco wrote:

>Hi... try to see fibromyalgia as Bi syndrome... there are some Liver

>Stagnation involved, but usually not at the moment...somewhere, in the

>past....

 

Hi Roberta ~

That is very interesting and fits. I also read something in one of my

nutritionn books

about a tie-in with liver. That would fit with my liver points being sore as

well.

 

>Tui Na

 

I looked that up on the internet and it seems to be like acupressure - like

acupuncture but not needles . . . did I get that right ?

 

>and auriculotherapy

 

I couldn't quite figure this term out . . .

 

it is chakra turning or Yoga or something else.

 

>are my favorite ways to deal with it...tonifying

>Gall Blader helps a lot too...

 

Well it seems that the Liver and Gall Bladder work together and I would assume

that before I quit drinking coffee that hurt my Adrenals, and my Kidneys of

course need to be attended to. And as others have mentioned it is easy for

things to change balance from day to day. I have been making sure I get

aerobic exercise every day and will see whether massaging meridians will bring

more relief.

 

I have a book on Acu-Yoga, doing Yoga to stimulate different meridians. Maybe

if I just have a well-round program, as I cannot afford acupunture at this

point, then I can do some good, Can't hurt, :-)

 

Thanks, Cat

 

 

^. .^ ~

[Guest guest]

Make sure it is apple cider vinegar not just white vinegar with caramel

coloring. You can get it from the health food store or the supermarket. i use

the

supermarket kind mostly, and yes you can put in on salads or any food that you

like. ! teaspoon in a cup ow tepid water shouldn't hurt.also make sure you

never drink really cold water it is bad for the liver.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

topshelf wrote:

>yes lime works the same as vinegar as a digestive aid, but lime is drying ,

>and ai think that vinegar is neutral, leaning more to the warming side.

>rabiah

 

 

Ah HAH !!!

 

So that is why mold cannot live in lime! Thanks for the info !!!

 

Can I use any sort of salad vinegar which I happen to have on hand . . .

 

does it work the same to put vinegar on a salad for example.

 

I don't mean to sound ignorant, but I have a sensitive stomach and am

wondering whether putting vinegar on an empty stomach is going to irritate it

with the acid.

 

Cheers, Cat

 

 

^. .^ ~

[Guest guest]

topshelf wrote:

> itmonline I hope this link works for you if not try this

>http://www.itmonline.org/

 

 

 

That worked just great !!!

 

Thank you !

 

Cat

 

 

^. .^ ~

[Guest guest]

> Well it seems that the Liver and Gall Bladder work together and I

would assume that before I quit drinking coffee that hurt my

Adrenals, and my Kidneys of course need to be attended to.

 

For those new to TCM, the TCM concept of the Kidneys include more

than the anatomical kidneys. The Kidneys also include many functions

of the adrenal glands.

 

Also for those new to TCM, the Liver is classified as Yin Wood, and

the Gall Bladder as Yang Wood. This won't mean anything at this

point, but it will later on. The Kidneys are classified as Yin Water,

and the Urinary Bladder as Yang Water.

 

A little 5 Elements Theory to keep in mind: In 5 Elements Theory

Water is the " mother " of Wood, and Wood is the " son " of Water. In

a " mother-son " relationship, whatever is done to the mother affects

the son. If the Kidneys are tonified, the Liver automatically is

tonified because Wood is the son of Water. If the Kidneys are

weakened, the Liver becomes weakened. This relationship between the

Kidneys and the Liver is seen most clearly in joint Kidney and Liver

Yin Deficiency. In these cases it's not enough to tonify the Liver

Yin, the Kidneys also need to be tonified because of the mother-son

relationship. Tonifying just the Liver Yin is like bailing out a

leaky rowboat without plugging the hole. Without also tonifying the

Kidneys when both Kidneys and Liver are Yin Deficient, one will have

to keep on and on and on tonifying Liver Yin.

[Guest guest]

Bragg's Unfiltered Raw Organic Apple Cider Vinegar. I bought mine at

Henry's Marketplace, a local healthfood store. It even has some recipes

on the bottle for how to take it. My favorite is eight ounces tepid

water, two tbsp's of the vinegar, and once tbsp of honey. Stir well and

drink it down, then rinse the glass and drink another sip or so of water

if you don't like the aftertaste.

 

Karen in San Diego

 

topshelf wrote:

 

> Make sure it is apple cider vinegar not just white vinegar with caramel

> coloring. You can get it from the health food store or the

> supermarket. i use the

> supermarket kind mostly, and yes you can put in on salads or any food

> that you

> like. ! teaspoon in a cup ow tepid water shouldn't hurt.also make sure

> you

> never drink really cold water it is bad for the liver.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Chinese Traditional Medicine , topshelf@a... wrote:

> yes lime works the same as vinegar as a digestive aid, but lime is

drying ,

> and ai think that vinegar is neutral, leaning more to the warming

side.

 

There is something else to consider here. Vinegar is acidic; lime is

alkaline. Some people do better on a more alkaline diet; others need

more acidity. My husband tried the vinegar and honey, and it ended

up buring his throat. I did well on it.

 

From a Western standpoint, the pH of the body also can affect

bacteria. I believe most bacteria thrive in a more acidic

environment. Becoming too acidic can make people more prone to

infections like colds. Like when a person eats too many sweets and

becomes too acidic. The logic behind taking baking soda when someone

has a cold is to help the body become more alkaline in order to fight

the cold. But some bacteria thrive in an alkaline environment, and

are hurt by a more acidic environment.

 

There are buffering systems in the body which are supposed to keep pH

within a safe range, but some people (and bacteria) are sensitive to

even minor changes.

 

If the stomach is too alkaline, this can interfere with the digestion

and the absorption of certain minerals and vitamins. Like when a

person takes too many antiacids or has some medical reason why the

stomach is too alkaline.

[Guest guest]

> Here is something I am now trying to reduce the slight muscle

stiffness I

> occasionally have ( I am hypothyroid) and that is cherry juice. I

was steered in

> this direction by the Dr. Mercola site (he was recommending some

blueberry

> juice concentrate and I got on the site where he purchases it for

resale on his

> site--there I found cherry juice which helps some with gout and

others with

> fibromyalgia, though it is not claimed as a cure).

 

This is interesting. Many years ago I discovered that cherries help

me. I look forward to cherry season every year. The juice helps

some, but fresh cherries help me more than the juice.

 

Fresh strawberries also help me. But they helped more back when I

was sicker than I am now. As far as I know, no one else with CFIDS

or FMS has reported being helped by strawberries. Some have reported

being hurt by them.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/17/04 11:45:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,

victoria_dragon writes:

 

 

> A little 5 Elements Theory to keep in mind: In 5 Elements Theory

> Water is the " mother " of Wood, and Wood is the " son " of Water. In

> a " mother-son " relationship, whatever is done to the mother affects

> the son. If the Kidneys are tonified, the Liver automatically is

> tonified because Wood is the son of Water. If the Kidneys are

> weakened, the Liver becomes weakened. This relationship between the

> Kidneys and the Liver is seen most clearly in joint Kidney and Liver

> Yin Deficiency. In these cases it's not enough to tonify the Liver

> Yin, the Kidneys also need to be tonified because of the mother-son

> relationship. Tonifying just the Liver Yin is like bailing out a

> leaky rowboat without plugging the hole. Without also tonifying the

> Kidneys when both Kidneys and Liver are Yin Deficient, one will have

> to keep on and on and on tonifying Liver Yin.

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

This is a lot to digest (grin) but if you are a novice like myself and look

up a formula would not the formula take into consideration that all the organs

in the affected system need to be addressed? of course you would or should be

able to tell whether it works or not by the patients response, NO?

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/18/04 9:49:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,

victoria_dragon writes:

 

 

> > This is a lot to digest (grin) but if you are a novice like myself

> and look

> > up a formula would not the formula take into consideration that all

> the organs

> > in the affected system need to be addressed?

>

> Not necessarily. ...

> There is a lot going on in TCM, and just as soon as I think I understand one

> aspect some tricky little issue raises its head. For instance the man I was

> helping with Hep C has developed a nagging pain in his upper left quadrant.

> He says it intermittantly feels like it could be gas or heartburn. I am

> thinking wind, diet, heart, What??Another thing that is crucial with tcm I

have

> learned is that the formula doesn't stay the same forever as with Western

herbs

> and allopathic meds., His complait to me indicates that there is a need to

> reformulate his rx, but because of my background in Western herbs i don't

> think like a tcm herbalist .I am just feeling my way around here I really

don't

> know. Once you help people a little , they take you as a professional .

> Whenever I get stuck I tell them to seek professional help be it their doctor.

> or an alt med practioner.

 

BTW I never charge anything because this is an education for me and I am

glad

> for the opportunity to learn , but I do sell the products that I make as

> adjunct therapy if they need them.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> This is a lot to digest (grin) but if you are a novice like myself

and look

> up a formula would not the formula take into consideration that all

the organs

> in the affected system need to be addressed?

 

Not necessarily. There is a great deal of fine-tuning of treatment

in TCM. For example, the Liver can be Yin Deficient without the

Kidneys being Yin Deficient. Add Kidney Yin in these cases, and one

can trigger a relative Kidney Yang Deficiency. Remember, part of the

TCM Materia Medica is listing what Organs and Meridians the herbs

target. Also, there are " guide " herbs which can be included in a

formula to get the effects of the forumula where they are needed.

 

Here's where it starts to get really complicated. Don't worry about

understanding this at this point. Just keep it in mind for future

reference. The Mother-Son relationship is a direct relationship.

Tonify the Mother, and the Son automatically is tonified. Sedate the

Mother, and the Son automatically is sedated. A direct relationship.

 

But there also is an inverse relationship called Victor-Vanquished.

When the " Victor " is tonified, the " Vanquished " is sedated. When the

Victor is Sedated, the Vanquished is strengthened. It's a control

relationship. Wood (Liver and Gall Bladder) is the " Victor " in

relationship to Earth (Spleen and Stomach). A good example of this is

Liver Invading Spleen.

 

Say that you have a situation where the Spleen already is too weak,

but the Liver needs tonifying. If you tonify Wood (Liver and GB),

you risk weakening Earth (Spleen) further. So how do you do it? One

way is to tonify Wood (Liver) by tonifying Water (Kidneys). Doing it

this way doesn't have quite the suppressive effect on Earth as

tonifying Wood would have.

 

When you're more comfortable with TCM basics, I recommend learning

more about 5 Elements Theory. It adds that little extra skill in

diagnosis and treatment that sometimes can make the difference

between a succesful treatment and a not so successful treatment.

Also, it is possible to figure out acupressure points to use to help

oneself even if one doesn't know a lot about acupoints. But don't

worry about this now. I'm just giving you an idea of what is

possible.

[Guest guest]

Chinese Traditional Medicine , Karen Peterson

<kpeterha@p...> wrote: > Bragg's Unfiltered Raw Organic Apple Cider

Vinegar.

 

 

Hi Cat:

 

The company will send you a sample of it if you ask. I just got one

in the mail a few weeks ago. It comes in a little package like

ketchup.

 

Take care,

mjd