Guest guest Report post Posted March 16, 2004 Chinese Traditional Medicine , Cat <iceisit@e...> wrote: > Hi Cat I am sorry about your diagnosis of fibromyalgia. I have had both fibromyalgia and cfids for 7yrs. and it has been a struggle. when i first got sick i didn't know what i had and doctors either were blowing me off, telling me- everyone feels tired- everyone gets achs and pains- but for me, i went to sleep one night a healthy 32 year old woman and woke up the next morning feeling like a very sick 92 year old woman. at first i went through the tons of medication that the hand full of doctors who believed me thought i should be on- and I also tried p/t and whatever else they told me to try. but i kept getting sicker and finally at some point I just stopped everything and just kinda floated for awhile- not really knowing what to do and becoming very depressed along the way. Its a very isolating illness if you don't find people to support and comfort you. it's been a very long 7 years to where i am now- I am seeing an acupuncturiest who has me on chinese herbs- I'm also meditating every day, some days 2x a day- and I'm trying to eat better- I strongly believe that stress does make this illness worse- and right now I am under a huge amount of stress- so the new steps I have taken to try and heal are very small, until my stressful life calms down and I can refocus my energies on healing. I hope I can help you if you have any questions or if you just need to vent- be well bernadette .. > > After further reading it appears with the great amount of pain I have that the diagnosis of Fibromyalgia seems to fit. I have an appt. with a Rhumatoid specialist May 3. I am not taking any medication but I want to see whether the doc has the latest blood tests which will diagnose Fibromyalgia. > > I had been talking to my internist for years about my symptoms which she didn't comment too much upon as I had other things going on at the time, like developing allergies and asthma. Now that the asthma is much better after I stopped drinking coffee and have put fresh lime juice all over my apartment, that is better. I haven't had > bronchitis this winter or last summer, and usually I get it 3-4 times per year. > > Meanwhile - my diet I believe is not my problem. Stress is. 80% of it is out of my control First my husband's snoring kept me awake for 8 years until I convinced that he DID in fact snore and needed to see a sleep specialist. > THEN after he got a CPAP machine, the neighbors below us wake me several times a night. In ten years I have not had a decent nights sleep and I cannot afford to go to a bread and breakfast to get one. > > One of the problems with Fibromyalgia is that lack of deep REM sleep aggravates the situation. I have gone back to taking calcium and melatonin before bed. I stopped because my acupuncturist said it was bad to take anything before sleeping as it was hard on my stomach. So I am between a rock and a sharp place. > > I did find that use my Shiatsu machine this morning when I awoke for a half hour in various places allowed me to get up and go to the rink for 45 minutes. > > Two weeks ago I skated 2 hours and then played an hour of tennis afterwards. I did that M,W, Fr, and the next week I couldn't do anything. > > I did not realize I might have a disease which can cause a relapse until Sat. when I was reading. > > So I assume that much of this in TCM is because meridians are out of balance. It I massage all of the points I find which hurt every day and do some Reike healing on myself, and try to keep the stress to a minimum, I am hoping that I can recover from this. > > Too bad when I kept decribing bone crushing fatigue for years to doctors along with painful swelling in hands and feet which made it difficult for me to walk much of the time, that SOMEONE didn't figure something out. > > I thought it was allergies and it is probably aggravated by that because of I do have severe allergies to mold and some other airborne things. But I do not eat wheat, corn, yeast, egg whites, alfafa sprouts and other things to which I am allergic. I have eaten 85-90% organic food my entire life and don't drink tap water. > > So it has to be environmental pollutants plus stress along with my genetic disposition to such things. > > After reading one article on Fibromyalgia and its connection to the liver it made purrfect sense with all the problems I have had with my liver the past 9 months. But my liver and stomach are better. > > In order to take the supplements I need for the Fibromyalgia I got some 100% Aloe juice (no additives of any kind) so buffer my stomach a little bit. About ten years ago I took it for my stomach a short time and it really helped. > I used to take acidopholous for a month after each dose of antibiotics. > > But apparently with Fibromyalgia there is something which keeps killing the good flora on a daily basis so I am going back to taking it every day and see what happens. > > I don't know if any of you have heard of SAMe - it is supposed to affect the serotonin (depression) in the brain as well as help with pain. That is the only supplement which I have never taken before as I got some yesterday. > > That stuff along with the daily meridian work should help. I'll return to acupuncture when I save some money. > Since I cannot do TCM on myself, per se, I'll work with the liver, kidney meridians and whatever else hurts. > > If anyone has any suggestions I would very much appreciate them. > > Cheers, Cat > > > ^. .^ ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 16, 2004 ther are herbs that are generally recognized as useful for liver problems. It is difficult if not impossible to say which ones are best for you without knowing the particulars of your case, i.e milk thistle, blessed thistle, goldenseal,hawthorne berries and many others. If you go to the site Itm online and do a search on fibrimyalgia you should come up with some very helpful information. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 16, 2004 A teaspoon of applecider vinegar in the morning helps to cleans the body and helps diminish aches and pains. I find that the pains are lessened if your bowels are clean so concider colon cleansing as well in your treatment plans, Rabaih Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 16, 2004 Support the adrenals glands immune system ..... Keep all types of stress down Find nutritional sources of Calcium and Magnesium. This has helped others in many ways Good luck mjdavis108 <mjd_subs2 wrote: Hi Cat! Boy, if I did not know better, I would think you and I were the same person. Geez! I have Fibromyalgia, but it's undiagnosed. My doctor does not think it's real. However, he can't explain the falling down, constant pain or other mystery ailments. I even developed the asthma and allergies! I've never been a big coffee drinker, but I've given up soda and all dairy products. I literally walked around with a sinus infection constantly. I haven't had an asthma attack in over six months now. I stopped taking all the medications they gave me. I weaned off about a year ago and am going completely natural. I drink Green Tea every day and Peppermint tea for my ulcer. I don't have a sure-fire remedy for the constant pain yet, but I am working on it. If you ever need someone to listen, please feel free to email me. It's hard not feeling very well every single day. I truly understand. Keep shining! mjd Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 17, 2004 mjdavis108 wrote: >Hi Cat! > >Boy, if I did not know better, I would think you and I were the same >person. Geez! > >I have Fibromyalgia, but it's undiagnosed. My doctor does not think >it's real. However, he can't explain the falling down, constant >pain or other mystery ailments. I even developed the asthma and >allergies! Hi - I developed allergies when I moved to the East coast and about two years ago became very asthmatic. The first two winters I was sick all the time. This past winter I didn't have lung problems (other problems cropped up instead). >I've never been a big coffee drinker, but I've given up soda and all >dairy products. I like Diet Pepsi and I cut that out as well. I really try to limit the dairy but the is the WORST of my habits. Cheese on occasion. >I literally walked around with a sinus infection >constantly. I haven't had an asthma attack in over six months now. great Sounds similar to my pattern. >I stopped taking all the medications they gave me. I weaned off >about a year ago and am going completely natural. I drink Green Tea >every day and Peppermint tea for my ulcer. Have you tried the 100% aloe juice. >I don't have a sure-fire >remedy for the constant pain yet, but I am working on it. I changed my exercise regime and will report back on that in a month or so. >If you ever need someone to listen, please feel free to email me. >It's hard not feeling very well every single day. I truly >understand. Totally. At first I thought there was some flu bug going around . . .and then I thought my back and neck were just stiff and hurting from stress. But the amount of pain continued to grow and I thought something must be wrong here. I noticed when I didn't have nearly enough strength that something must really be wrong. I am going to take magnesium in addition to my regular combo calcium stuff and see whether that helps. Thanks for your support and I might just take you up on your offer. Cheers, Cat ^. .^ ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 17, 2004 Hi... try to see fibromyalgia as Bi syndrome... there are some Liver Stagnation involved, but usually not at the moment...somewhere, in the past.... Tui Na and auriculotherapy are my favorite ways to deal with it...tonifying Gall Blader helps a lot too... I hope it helps.. Roberta Terapias Orientais www.robertablanco.com.br Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 17, 2004 yes lime works the same as vinegar as a digestive aid, but lime is drying , and ai think that vinegar is neutral, leaning more to the warming side. rabiah Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 17, 2004 itmonline I hope this link works for you if not try this http://www.itmonline.org/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 17, 2004 > Hi... try to see fibromyalgia as Bi syndrome... there are some Liver > Stagnation involved, but usually not at the moment...somewhere, in the > past.... For those new to TCM, Bi Syndrome, aka Painful Obstruction Syndrome, very often is a factor in Fibromyalgia Syndrome (FMS). If know I tend to have more problems when it gets Cold and especially if it is windy if I'm not on TCM treatment. The muscles get stiff and painful. As soon as the weather warms, the muscles loosen up again and pain decreases. According to Bob Flaws in one of his books, the primary imbalances seen in cases of FMS are Liver, Kidneys, Spleen, and Heart. > Tui Na and auriculotherapy are my favorite ways to deal with it...tonifying > Gall Blader helps a lot too... Massage helped me a lot. As did acupressure. Now for the " good " news about FMS. People with FMS have an advantage in learning acupressure because so many of the acupoints are painful. You have no trouble finding them. Sometimes you don't even have to press on a spot to discover it's painful. You can feel it without pressure. Kidney 1 (on the middle of the sole of the foot) is one of these for me. When I overdo, I get a soreness in the center of the sole of my foot that I can feel even without pressing on the area. BTW, I've never known a person with FMS who didn't have a lot more sore spots than just the 18 used to diagnose it. Victoria Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 17, 2004 I just found this book in Sam's Club on the subject of fibromyalgia and thought that some here might be interested in this doctor's theory about this problem (it involves the kidney not being able to properly maintain mineral balances). It is an interesting protocol and seems to help some, but personally I wonder how he cannot see that as the medication (BTW in lower doses this drug is OTC) he uses is derived from an herb (guiacom, or ironwood) that herbs cannot be the enemy he seems to feel they are (well maybe they are when the synthetic deriviative is used, but I still wonder if the proper herbs wouldn't cure this problem rather than just mask it). Anyway for those who are curious and have an open mind to looking into all ideas (though not perhaps following what it says--I don't think I would as I have seen herbs help too often to put them in the ashheap and this guy even seems to even dis the herb from which the drug he uses is derived, the height of irony!) I post this book: What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Firbromyalgia by R. Paul St. Amand, M.D. and Claudia Craig Marek Sarah Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 17, 2004 topshelf wrote: >ther are herbs that are generally recognized as useful for liver problems. It >is difficult if not impossible to say which ones are best for you without >knowing the particulars of your case, i.e milk thistle, blessed thistle, >goldenseal,hawthorne berries and many others. If you go to the site Itm online and do >a search on fibrimyalgia you should come up with some very helpful >information. what site is that .. . . would you have the URL handy I put in ITm online and didn't find anything Thanks - Cat ^. .^ ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 17, 2004 topshelf wrote: >A teaspoon of applecider vinegar in the morning helps to cleans the body and >helps diminish aches and pains. I find that the pains are lessened if your >bowels are clean so concider colon cleansing as well in your treatment plans, >Rabaih Thanks - does lime work the same as vigenar ? Cat ^. .^ ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 17, 2004 Here is something I am now trying to reduce the slight muscle stiffness I occasionally have ( I am hypothyroid) and that is cherry juice. I was steered in this direction by the Dr. Mercola site (he was recommending some blueberry juice concentrate and I got on the site where he purchases it for resale on his site--there I found cherry juice which helps some with gout and others with fibromyalgia, though it is not claimed as a cure). Anyway, I have been on it for a week, too soon to tell if all my minor aches will disappear. Always hopeful. Meanwhile I know that red cherries are good for the heart and are warming (something which helps cold dampness). At least one person has written a book connecting some fibromyalgia to low body temperatures and hypothyroidism. The book is called Your Guide to Metabolic Health by Dr. Gina Honeyman-Lowe and Dr. John C. Lewis (these people are chiropractors, not M.D.'s). Sarah Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 17, 2004 Roberta Blanco wrote: >Hi... try to see fibromyalgia as Bi syndrome... there are some Liver >Stagnation involved, but usually not at the moment...somewhere, in the >past.... Hi Roberta ~ That is very interesting and fits. I also read something in one of my nutritionn books about a tie-in with liver. That would fit with my liver points being sore as well. >Tui Na I looked that up on the internet and it seems to be like acupressure - like acupuncture but not needles . . . did I get that right ? >and auriculotherapy I couldn't quite figure this term out . . . it is chakra turning or Yoga or something else. >are my favorite ways to deal with it...tonifying >Gall Blader helps a lot too... Well it seems that the Liver and Gall Bladder work together and I would assume that before I quit drinking coffee that hurt my Adrenals, and my Kidneys of course need to be attended to. And as others have mentioned it is easy for things to change balance from day to day. I have been making sure I get aerobic exercise every day and will see whether massaging meridians will bring more relief. I have a book on Acu-Yoga, doing Yoga to stimulate different meridians. Maybe if I just have a well-round program, as I cannot afford acupunture at this point, then I can do some good, Can't hurt, :-) Thanks, Cat ^. .^ ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 17, 2004 Make sure it is apple cider vinegar not just white vinegar with caramel coloring. You can get it from the health food store or the supermarket. i use the supermarket kind mostly, and yes you can put in on salads or any food that you like. ! teaspoon in a cup ow tepid water shouldn't hurt.also make sure you never drink really cold water it is bad for the liver. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 17, 2004 topshelf wrote: >yes lime works the same as vinegar as a digestive aid, but lime is drying , >and ai think that vinegar is neutral, leaning more to the warming side. >rabiah Ah HAH !!! So that is why mold cannot live in lime! Thanks for the info !!! Can I use any sort of salad vinegar which I happen to have on hand . . . does it work the same to put vinegar on a salad for example. I don't mean to sound ignorant, but I have a sensitive stomach and am wondering whether putting vinegar on an empty stomach is going to irritate it with the acid. Cheers, Cat ^. .^ ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 17, 2004 topshelf wrote: > itmonline I hope this link works for you if not try this >http://www.itmonline.org/ That worked just great !!! Thank you ! Cat ^. .^ ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 18, 2004 > Well it seems that the Liver and Gall Bladder work together and I would assume that before I quit drinking coffee that hurt my Adrenals, and my Kidneys of course need to be attended to. For those new to TCM, the TCM concept of the Kidneys include more than the anatomical kidneys. The Kidneys also include many functions of the adrenal glands. Also for those new to TCM, the Liver is classified as Yin Wood, and the Gall Bladder as Yang Wood. This won't mean anything at this point, but it will later on. The Kidneys are classified as Yin Water, and the Urinary Bladder as Yang Water. A little 5 Elements Theory to keep in mind: In 5 Elements Theory Water is the " mother " of Wood, and Wood is the " son " of Water. In a " mother-son " relationship, whatever is done to the mother affects the son. If the Kidneys are tonified, the Liver automatically is tonified because Wood is the son of Water. If the Kidneys are weakened, the Liver becomes weakened. This relationship between the Kidneys and the Liver is seen most clearly in joint Kidney and Liver Yin Deficiency. In these cases it's not enough to tonify the Liver Yin, the Kidneys also need to be tonified because of the mother-son relationship. Tonifying just the Liver Yin is like bailing out a leaky rowboat without plugging the hole. Without also tonifying the Kidneys when both Kidneys and Liver are Yin Deficient, one will have to keep on and on and on tonifying Liver Yin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 18, 2004 Bragg's Unfiltered Raw Organic Apple Cider Vinegar. I bought mine at Henry's Marketplace, a local healthfood store. It even has some recipes on the bottle for how to take it. My favorite is eight ounces tepid water, two tbsp's of the vinegar, and once tbsp of honey. Stir well and drink it down, then rinse the glass and drink another sip or so of water if you don't like the aftertaste. Karen in San Diego topshelf wrote: > Make sure it is apple cider vinegar not just white vinegar with caramel > coloring. You can get it from the health food store or the > supermarket. i use the > supermarket kind mostly, and yes you can put in on salads or any food > that you > like. ! teaspoon in a cup ow tepid water shouldn't hurt.also make sure > you > never drink really cold water it is bad for the liver. > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 18, 2004 Chinese Traditional Medicine , topshelf@a... wrote: > yes lime works the same as vinegar as a digestive aid, but lime is drying , > and ai think that vinegar is neutral, leaning more to the warming side. There is something else to consider here. Vinegar is acidic; lime is alkaline. Some people do better on a more alkaline diet; others need more acidity. My husband tried the vinegar and honey, and it ended up buring his throat. I did well on it. From a Western standpoint, the pH of the body also can affect bacteria. I believe most bacteria thrive in a more acidic environment. Becoming too acidic can make people more prone to infections like colds. Like when a person eats too many sweets and becomes too acidic. The logic behind taking baking soda when someone has a cold is to help the body become more alkaline in order to fight the cold. But some bacteria thrive in an alkaline environment, and are hurt by a more acidic environment. There are buffering systems in the body which are supposed to keep pH within a safe range, but some people (and bacteria) are sensitive to even minor changes. If the stomach is too alkaline, this can interfere with the digestion and the absorption of certain minerals and vitamins. Like when a person takes too many antiacids or has some medical reason why the stomach is too alkaline. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 18, 2004 > Here is something I am now trying to reduce the slight muscle stiffness I > occasionally have ( I am hypothyroid) and that is cherry juice. I was steered in > this direction by the Dr. Mercola site (he was recommending some blueberry > juice concentrate and I got on the site where he purchases it for resale on his > site--there I found cherry juice which helps some with gout and others with > fibromyalgia, though it is not claimed as a cure). This is interesting. Many years ago I discovered that cherries help me. I look forward to cherry season every year. The juice helps some, but fresh cherries help me more than the juice. Fresh strawberries also help me. But they helped more back when I was sicker than I am now. As far as I know, no one else with CFIDS or FMS has reported being helped by strawberries. Some have reported being hurt by them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 18, 2004 In a message dated 3/17/04 11:45:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, victoria_dragon writes: > A little 5 Elements Theory to keep in mind: In 5 Elements Theory > Water is the " mother " of Wood, and Wood is the " son " of Water. In > a " mother-son " relationship, whatever is done to the mother affects > the son. If the Kidneys are tonified, the Liver automatically is > tonified because Wood is the son of Water. If the Kidneys are > weakened, the Liver becomes weakened. This relationship between the > Kidneys and the Liver is seen most clearly in joint Kidney and Liver > Yin Deficiency. In these cases it's not enough to tonify the Liver > Yin, the Kidneys also need to be tonified because of the mother-son > relationship. Tonifying just the Liver Yin is like bailing out a > leaky rowboat without plugging the hole. Without also tonifying the > Kidneys when both Kidneys and Liver are Yin Deficient, one will have > to keep on and on and on tonifying Liver Yin. > > > > > > This is a lot to digest (grin) but if you are a novice like myself and look up a formula would not the formula take into consideration that all the organs in the affected system need to be addressed? of course you would or should be able to tell whether it works or not by the patients response, NO? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 18, 2004 In a message dated 3/18/04 9:49:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, victoria_dragon writes: > > This is a lot to digest (grin) but if you are a novice like myself > and look > > up a formula would not the formula take into consideration that all > the organs > > in the affected system need to be addressed? > > Not necessarily. ... > There is a lot going on in TCM, and just as soon as I think I understand one > aspect some tricky little issue raises its head. For instance the man I was > helping with Hep C has developed a nagging pain in his upper left quadrant. > He says it intermittantly feels like it could be gas or heartburn. I am > thinking wind, diet, heart, What??Another thing that is crucial with tcm I have > learned is that the formula doesn't stay the same forever as with Western herbs > and allopathic meds., His complait to me indicates that there is a need to > reformulate his rx, but because of my background in Western herbs i don't > think like a tcm herbalist .I am just feeling my way around here I really don't > know. Once you help people a little , they take you as a professional . > Whenever I get stuck I tell them to seek professional help be it their doctor. > or an alt med practioner. BTW I never charge anything because this is an education for me and I am glad > for the opportunity to learn , but I do sell the products that I make as > adjunct therapy if they need them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 18, 2004 > This is a lot to digest (grin) but if you are a novice like myself and look > up a formula would not the formula take into consideration that all the organs > in the affected system need to be addressed? Not necessarily. There is a great deal of fine-tuning of treatment in TCM. For example, the Liver can be Yin Deficient without the Kidneys being Yin Deficient. Add Kidney Yin in these cases, and one can trigger a relative Kidney Yang Deficiency. Remember, part of the TCM Materia Medica is listing what Organs and Meridians the herbs target. Also, there are " guide " herbs which can be included in a formula to get the effects of the forumula where they are needed. Here's where it starts to get really complicated. Don't worry about understanding this at this point. Just keep it in mind for future reference. The Mother-Son relationship is a direct relationship. Tonify the Mother, and the Son automatically is tonified. Sedate the Mother, and the Son automatically is sedated. A direct relationship. But there also is an inverse relationship called Victor-Vanquished. When the " Victor " is tonified, the " Vanquished " is sedated. When the Victor is Sedated, the Vanquished is strengthened. It's a control relationship. Wood (Liver and Gall Bladder) is the " Victor " in relationship to Earth (Spleen and Stomach). A good example of this is Liver Invading Spleen. Say that you have a situation where the Spleen already is too weak, but the Liver needs tonifying. If you tonify Wood (Liver and GB), you risk weakening Earth (Spleen) further. So how do you do it? One way is to tonify Wood (Liver) by tonifying Water (Kidneys). Doing it this way doesn't have quite the suppressive effect on Earth as tonifying Wood would have. When you're more comfortable with TCM basics, I recommend learning more about 5 Elements Theory. It adds that little extra skill in diagnosis and treatment that sometimes can make the difference between a succesful treatment and a not so successful treatment. Also, it is possible to figure out acupressure points to use to help oneself even if one doesn't know a lot about acupoints. But don't worry about this now. I'm just giving you an idea of what is possible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 18, 2004 Chinese Traditional Medicine , Karen Peterson <kpeterha@p...> wrote: > Bragg's Unfiltered Raw Organic Apple Cider Vinegar. Hi Cat: The company will send you a sample of it if you ask. I just got one in the mail a few weeks ago. It comes in a little package like ketchup. Take care, mjd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites