Newbie

[Guest guest]

Greetings, Brad:

 

Well, it is always interesting to see who has entered the room. Where

are you located, and what are you doing your dissertation on?

 

We are a varied group, and not nearly as chatty as our numbers would

belie... however, we are working on that, eh? (do I hear a tiny *yes*

from out there? ;-)

 

You may find the posts on the first two chakras in the list

archives, which you can access by logging in at ONElist and following

the link from the member screen under lists you belong to.

 

Brad Adams wrote:

>

> Hi, group!

> I have just joined the group and thought I would introduce myself. My

> name is Brad, and I am finishing my Ph.D. in psychology (defending in 3

> months), and am also a newly certified massage therapist. I am

> interested in blending psychotherapy and massage into a unified healing

> art. My dream is to open a holistic healing center staffed by

> psychotherapists, massage therapists, accupuncturists, chiropractors,

> herbalists, experts in dance, music and art therapy, et al. I am

> curious to hear if anyone here has any information or experience

> regarding the combined use of massage and psychotherapy. I took a

> course on Radical Therapy, which combines Gestalt, Humanistic and

> Existential therapies with bodywork, but that is the extent of my

> exposure thus far. Please enlighten me if you can.

>

> P.S. Sorry I missed the discussions re: the first 2 chakras. I look

> forward to the remaining discussions, though.

>

--

Blessings,

Crow

" Look for Rainbows in the Darkness "

--

Caroline Abreu, BS, RN, CHTP/I, CRMT

B*A*L*A*N*C*E

 

Awakening the Inner Healer with " A Nurturing Touch "

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/5114/

 

Make a connection...

//

Bodywork's your life? Join Body_Work...

//Body_Work

[Guest guest]

sorry to bother you all but is the chat room on the net, I cant access icq or

anything else, my computers are very old and do not work well.

Also what are the best times to join up and talk?

 

blessed be

owllights

[Guest guest]

Timmi:

 

We are in a state of grace when our passions in life are what makes us the

financial background to live this life!

 

Blessed Be,

Bonnie

 

<A HREF= " http://www.thecrystalgate.com " >The Crystal Gate</A> My personal site.

<A HREF= " http://www.tarot.thecrystalgate.com " >The Crystal Gate - Tarot</A> My

Tarot site.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Timmi,

 

Where in VA do you live?

 

I am in the blacksburg area. Where Virginia Tech is located..

 

It would be SOOO cool to finally find someone esle to talk to and share

experiences with that actually lives in the same area

 

 

Take Care and Blessed Be,

Duschinka Jeweleyes

 

" Strive for your dreams in the time given,

And seek to fulfill the need with which you are driven "

~Duschinka

 

" I walked a mile with pleasure; She chattered all the way,

But left me none the wiser, For all she had to say.

I walked a mile with Sorrow; And ne'er a word said she;

But oh, the things I learned from her, When Sorrow walked with me!

~Robert Browning Hamilton

 

 

_______________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[Guest guest]

Timmi wrote:. I am also a Reiki orphan still looking for

 

> guidance there also.

 

Welcome ,

 

I reccomend the Reiki_On@ list

Reiki_On

as a very helpful Reiki family

 

>

> I also weave dream catchers on a regular basis, and have recently

> been given to make crystal grids using crystals with drilled holes

> which I weave into the dream catchers. Working with grids is new to

> me and though I originally thought this was a financial venture, I

> have found these grids so exciting, that I am using them myself.

 

This sounds wonderful

 

Peggy

--

 

Huna, Angels, Crystals, fairies, the aura, Reiki manuals,

spirituality} http://www.geocities.com/solarraven/index.html

Sparrows Fairyland} art http://www.geocities.com/pjentoft/index.html

Spirited emotion} http://members.tripod.com/~sunsparrow/index.html

Heretic Sanctuary http://people.we.mediaone.net/skygreen/index.html

[Guest guest]

, spiritseeker@a... wrote:

> Timmi:

>

> We are in a state of grace when our passions in life are what makes

us the

> financial background to live this life!

>

> Blessed Be,

> Bonnie

..

 

Bless you Bonnie! Unfortunately, my passions are not my financial

livelihood (which is much more mundane), but who knows, that may

change.

[Guest guest]

Dear Maria,

 

Haven't had the time to mock up a "bio" yet, but I will soon, with the forthcoming publishing of my book (about 6 to 9 months away).

 

Of course as many list members will tell you, if you give me a call, I'll tell you all about myself ;o) LOL.

 

Love,

 

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.505-772-5889Dr.IanShillington

 

-

LMaria33

herbal remedies

Saturday, April 06, 2002 1:44 PM

[herbal remedies] newbie

 

Doc - do you have a bio somewhere? I'm new to the group and pretty much computer illiterate, so I wasn't sure if there was something about you written on the group site or not. If not, can you tell me what kind of education/training you've been through? Just curious....I'm enjoying the info on here...Maria

[Guest guest]

Welcome aboard.

 

T

 

At 09:37 PM 4/23/02 +0000, you wrote:

>Hi all, I just joined today, and looking forward to being in this

>group. Hope to be able to learn alot and help any way that I can.

[Guest guest]

Hi Cynthia, welcome to the group. There are several different natural options. Personally, I've had the best luck with red raspberry leaf tea. Sage works in a pinch for the night sweats too.

 

Janet

 

-

 

am1cyn

herbal remedies

Monday, August 12, 2002 10:31 AM

[herbal remedies] Newbie

Hi All,I am newbie not only to this group, but to Alternative Medicine also. I was wondering if anyone has some recomendations on a Natrual approach to Hormone Replacement Therapy, and Osteoporosis? I am menopausal and have Osteo. The doctors have me on birthcontrol pills and Fosamax currently. I guess I should mention my age also, I'm 28. :0) I would greatly appreciate any Feedback. Thank you,Cynthia

[Guest guest]

It helps, so does MSM and apple cider vinegar.

Suzi

rcjack112 <rcjack112 wrote: Hi Guys,I just finished a year of mild chemo that has left me with arthritus in my joints. I've read about Glucousimine????? (forget spelling) Can anyone educate me further on this? Thanks.R.C.

[Guest guest]

Hey

 

I am sure the HGH do work somehow, but not that way you want it to

work? I think you should read something on the site

http://www.antiaging-europe.com/

 

They have a link about " Little people of Krk " and a study where they

gave mice HGH. The mice grew to be double the size as the normal

ones, but they aged earlier and died younger.

 

Here is the introducing text:

 

" Little people of Krk " have unusually long lifespan

The first indication came in the mid-1980s, when physiologist Andrzej

Bartke outfitted lab mice with human or bovine genes for growth

hormone. These mighty mice grew to twice the size of normal ones, but

they aged early and died young. Bartke, now based at Southern

Illinois University, witnessed something very different in 1996, when

he began studying a strain of rodents called Ames dwarf mice. Due to

a congenital lack of growth hormone, these creatures reach only a

third the size of normal mice. But they live 50 to 60 percent longer.

As it happens, the mini-mice aren't the only ones carrying this

auspicious gene. The island of Krk, a Croatian outpost in the eastern

Adriatic, is home to a group of people who harbor essentially the

same mutation. The " little people of Krk " reach an adult height of

just 4 feet 5 inches. But like the mini-mice, they're exceptionally

long-lived. Bartke's mouse studies suggest that besides stifling

growth hormone, the gene that causes this stunting may also improve

sensitivity to-you guessed it-insulin. If so, the mini-mice, the

Croatian dwarfs and the half-starved rats and monkeys have more than

their longevity in common. No one is suggesting that we stunt

people's growth in the hope of extending their lives. But if you've

been pestering your doctor for a vial of growth hormone, you may want

to reconsider. "

 

I actually do have some of it, I think. I am small and have

sensitivity to insulin. I do too look younger than my age, and my

grandmother who is too that way, is today 88 years old...

 

I will never try HGH after I read this article...*grin*

 

Mar

 

herbal remedies, " rcjack112 " <rcjack112> wrote:

> Hello All,

> I'm fairly new & have been using supplimentals for many years. I

> recently saw a rerun of an old infomercial that has always tempted

me

> to call the co. and order. Usually, tho, when the price isn't

> advertised it's more then I want to pay for a " pig-in-a-poke " .

> The product is Ultimate HGH. (Human Growth Hormone) It's claim is

to

> promote the pituitary gland, where the human growth hormone is

stored,

> to release it as frequently as it did in our youth promoting

> vitality, weight loss, hair growth, wrinkle reduction, the whole

bit.

> I was hoping someone would have more info on this or a more

reliable

> source, such as GNC or another herbal supply, where this could be

> acquired IF in fact it works. I know, I know......If it sounds too

> good to be true it probably is. Anyone heard or know of this

stuff?

> Thanks.

> R.C.

[Guest guest]

Time to repeat something i've said before on this list. HGH is highly suspect in

general. I have met the doctor who invented it. His original business to sell

it was hijacked out from under him by some very sleazy operators. There is no

telling what any of the stuff is that's being sold out there as HGH. Maybe one

of those is pure and effective, but the rest aren't. So i've been recommending

that, until the situation is sorted out, and the original inventor's business

interests are clarified and restored, we all avoid HGH. Meanwhile, i've been

trying to get more information, but have not been able to contact the people who

know for several months now.

 

On Sun, 19 May 2002 13:36:48 -0000 rcjack112 <rcjack112 wrote:

 

Hello All,

I'm fairly new & have been using supplimentals for many years. I

recently saw a rerun of an old infomercial that has always tempted me

to call the co. and order. Usually, tho, when the price isn't

advertised it's more then I want to pay for a " pig-in-a-poke " .

The product is Ultimate HGH. (Human Growth Hormone) It's claim is to

promote the pituitary gland, where the human growth hormone is stored,

to release it as frequently as it did in our youth promoting

vitality, weight loss, hair growth, wrinkle reduction, the whole bit.

I was hoping someone would have more info on this or a more reliable

source, such as GNC or another herbal supply, where this could be

acquired IF in fact it works. I know, I know......If it sounds too

good to be true it probably is. Anyone heard or know of this stuff?

Thanks.

R.C.

[Guest guest]

walkyria9 & Michael Riversong,

Thanks for your input. As I said. I usually follow the saying, " If

it's too good to be true " , but I thought it was worth the

investigating.

Thanks again.

R.C.

[Guest guest]

I haven't heard of this product, but I have heard of other HGH products;

all nightmarish stories. My $00.02: Don't mess with your body's hormones.

Ever. They're that way for a reason. If your hormones are out of

balance, it's because your endocrine system needs balancing (and so does

your system as a whole), not because you need to artificially adjust it

with supplements. Very dangerous, very nasty possible side-effects in

messing with hormones. Thanks for asking! -ST

 

>Hello All,

>I'm fairly new & have been using supplimentals for many years. I

>recently saw a rerun of an old infomercial that has always tempted me

>to call the co. and order. Usually, tho, when the price isn't

>advertised it's more then I want to pay for a " pig-in-a-poke " .

>The product is Ultimate HGH. (Human Growth Hormone) It's claim is to

>promote the pituitary gland, where the human growth hormone is stored,

>to release it as frequently as it did in our youth promoting

>vitality, weight loss, hair growth, wrinkle reduction, the whole bit.

>I was hoping someone would have more info on this or a more reliable

>source, such as GNC or another herbal supply, where this could be

>acquired IF in fact it works. I know, I know......If it sounds too

>good to be true it probably is. Anyone heard or know of this stuff?

>Thanks.

>R.C.

>

>

>

>Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following:

>1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.

>2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural

remedy.

>3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and

to

>prescribe for your own health.

>We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long

as

>they behave themselves.

>Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any

person

>following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk.

>It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from

list members, you are agreeing to

>be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and

members free of any liability.

>

>Dr. Ian Shillington

>Doctor of Naturopathy

>Dr.IanShillington

>

>

[Guest guest]

That's funny--! My grandfather gave me an antique chair from the island of

Krk when I was ten years old--we all laughed, because it was just my size!

Now I know. Thanks,

ST

httpd://www.boredmail.com

[Guest guest]

Scott,

 

 

>Actually, I am now to the point where I believe the germ theory is

>just a subset of something much larger....I wonder if this interests

>anyone out there...Yes, germs cause disease, but I really think it is

>just as much what kind of stress you are under....Or where you are

>losing energy in your chakras....that is more important.

 

There is more than one mechanism at work.

The " germ theory " is completely valid.

The organisms are quite opportunistic.

Given access to your body, they will infect and happily multiply.

 

> I base my little pet theory on personal experience and on studying

> people who seemed to overcome it...

>Namely, Swami Rama, Jack Schwartz, and that

>guy in the 50's who survived septic swords through is vital organs

>all the time... My own personal experience is that when I would get

>a cut, I would put it in dirt, as a test(I know this is extreme but I

>needed to know for myself...)I found that when I was stressed out, or

>doubting, I would get an infection. Then I found out that when I

>imagined the cut healing, like a on a big screen on my mind, it would

>and I wouldn't get an infection. I was only able to master this on a

>very small scale. Anything larger than a half inch cut(I am a

>gardener and play sports!)I would need to put on antibiotic ointment

>on it.

 

If you were exposed to the " germs " then you did get an 'infection'.

Just one opportunistic germ constitutes an infection if it gets the chance

to grow/multiply.

 

>But it made me think, the germ theory says I should get an

>infection...Aha! The white crow!!! Then I read that the scientists

>explain that now by the " critical mass " of germs. That is how we get

>strep throat, for example. Strep germs are always present, but only

>when they are allowed to form a certain number, like 2 billion cells

>or something, that they overwhelm the immune system...But to me, they

>should also explore the differences in immune systems that allow that

>to happen. I have read some Candace Pert, but she is still slammed

>and treated like an outsider like Rupert Sheldrake by the

>mainstream...

 

The other side of the coin is two-fold. The basic theory goes that when we

are infected, our immune system fights back and destroys the germs.

 

The part overlooked is the effect of our mind on our immune system.

Our brain (just one part of the mind) sends information by way of the

hypothalamus to the pituitary gland which in turn sends additional

information through our endocrine system which effects the immune system

and the healing/rebuilding of the cells. The emotional state of our mind

has more to do with healing than anything else.

 

Is there more involved than this?

Yes, but just this aspect of the mind goes an incredibly long way.

Like what?

That's some of the things people on this list search for.

Personally, I don't expect much to be found.

But, if I was totally closed minded, I prolly would not be here.

 

>Where are we in history? Does another invention equivalent to the

>microscope need to happen for us to " believe " as a species?

 

It'll likely take more than a microscope.

Some of the 'forces' are beyond physical measurement.

 

> I know I am sort of preaching to the choir here,

 

We don't all sing the same song here.

 

>but sometimes I wonder what

>things will be like in 200 years (100 years is just around the

>corner...) when they have discovered a way to measure subtle energies

>or something that goes beyond Kirlean photography...Or did all the

>giant leaps happen with the germ theory and now genetics will solve

>the rest..

 

Genetics is a bit weak.

Our mind is capable of modulating- turning on and off genes.

Genes are not

static, and used only for cell division then turn off.

 

>Anyway , those are my thoughts. Maybe they resonate with some of you,

>maybe not...Thanks for taking the time to read this...

 

>(except for aging, now THAT is a good puzzle...)

 

not really. Aging is rather simple.

 

>Scott

 

Steve

[Guest guest]

Hello All,

 

this is my first post I hope it makes it through!!!! I have to admit,

I just joined today and that was the first porn spam I've seen! I've

been on another list diff topic for 21,000 messages and have never

seen one before!

 

Anyway, I thought I'd throw some things out there...

 

I am a student of the Myss philosophy, namely because it coincided

with my own expereince so well. I was having health probs and when i

looked at what I was doing in my life, changed my behavior, the

symptoms largely went away.

 

Something like that is hard to ignore and changed the way I looked at

a lot of things. I should also mention that since, the mind/body

thing has become sort of a hobby with me...

 

I wonder, why is it that the energy thing hasn't moved more

mainstream. I still feel, or wonder, maybe I'm kidding myself, and if

I got a really serious disease, I'd drop this stuff in heartbeat and

take some medications!!! WEll, not exactly, but you know what I

mean. Medications are ok, I know! But how much, how deeply do I

really believe it...

 

Actually, I am now to the point where I believe the germ theory is

just a subset of something much larger....I wonder if this interests

anyone out there...Yes, germs cause disease, but I really think it is

just as much what kind of stress you are under....Or where you are

losing energy in your chakras....that is more important. I base my

little pet theory on personal experience and on studying people who

seemed to overcome it...Namely, Swami Rama, Jack Schwartz, and that

guy in the 50's who survived septic swords through is vital organs

all the time... My own personal experience is that when I would get

a cut, I would put it in dirt, as a test(I know this is extreme but I

needed to know for myself...)I found that when I was stressed out, or

doubting, I would get an infection. Then I found out that when I

imagined the cut healing, like a on a big screen on my mind, it would

and I wouldn't get an infection. I was only able to master this on a

very small scale. Anything larger than a half inch cut(I am a

gardener and play sports!)I would need to put on antibiotic ointment

on it. But it made me think, the germ theory says I should get an

infection...Aha! The white crow!!! Then I read that the scientists

explain that now by the " critical mass " of germs. That is how we get

strep throat, for example. Strep germs are always present, but only

when they are allowed to form a certain number, like 2 billion cells

or something, that they overwhelm the immune system...But to me, they

should also explore the differences in immune systems that allow that

to happen. I have read some Candace Pert, but she is still slammed

and treated like an outsider like Rupert Sheldrake by the

mainstream...

 

Where are we in history? Does another invention equivalent to the

microscope need to happen for us to " believe " as a species? I know I

am sort of preaching to the choir here, but sometimes I wonder what

things will be like in 200 years(100 years is just around the

corner...)when they have discovered a way to measure subtle energies

or something that goes beyond Kirlean photography...Or did all the

giant leaps happen with the germ theory and now genetics will solve

the rest...(except for aging, now THAT is a good puzzle...)

 

Anyway , those are my thoughts. Maybe they resonate with some of you,

maybe not...Thanks for taking the time to read this...

 

Scott

[Guest guest]

>The other side of the coin is two-fold. The basic theory goes that when we

>are infected, our immune system fights back and destroys the germs.

 

>The part overlooked is the effect of our mind on our immune system.

>Our brain (just one part of the mind) sends information by way of the

>hypothalamus to the pituitary gland which in turn sends additional

>information through our endocrine system which effects the immune system

>and the healing/rebuilding of the cells. The emotional state of our mind

>has more to do with healing than anything else.

 

 

 

I found this interesting. What about in the case of autoimmune diseases? When

the immune system starts destroying it's own healthy tissues after a virus? I

would be interested in hearing about different theories as to why the body turns

on itself. And more important--how to stop it.

Renee

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/2/2002 7:19:14 AM Central Daylight Time,

robnay writes:

 

 

> I found this interesting. What about in the case of autoimmune diseases?

> When the immune system starts destroying it's own healthy tissues after a

> virus? I would be interested in hearing about different theories as to why

> the body turns on itself. And more important--how to stop it.

> Renee

>

>

 

I just was reading Candace Pert's Molecules of emotions and her theory which

I guess has been proven through many studies now is the our immune systems

clean up cells, " macrophages " somehow mutate and turn on themselves. This

is now a prevailing theory of cancer (not thatlive organ cells are mutating

), and auto immune disorders. She is now focusing on AIDS in her work and

has made many steps , but I am not sure of all the actions. Perhaps you can

find some recent information on the Web using google and her name.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hello Renee,

 

>I found this interesting. What about in the case of autoimmune diseases?

When the immune system starts destroying it's own healthy tissues after a

virus? I would be interested in hearing about different theories as to why

the body turns on itself. And more important--how to stop it.

 

 

 

Current research in this area has shown the mind having a self-destruct

tendancy. Usually caused by a misunderstanding.

Our sub-conscious mind does what it thinks is best for us, but that part of

us lacks the reasoning ability of our conscious mind.

 

Often the decision is made in early childhood, but is triggered as an

adult, kinda like a 'last straw breaking the camel's back'.

In this case, taking the person's sub-conscious mind back to that childhood

time and helping it to understand, having the resuorces and understanding

of the adult available, and the person leading this expedition as a

guide/counselor, a new decision can be made *not* to be self-destructive as

self-destruction was not an appropriate decision.

 

Steve

[Guest guest]

Renee,

 

I concur with Steve, autoimmune disease definitely have a

subconscious mind component. And it involves an argument between two

parts that don't agree. One thinks it is shut out and goes and acts

out in the body...

 

Arthritis, all that stuff is like that...

 

There is a great book about a woman recovering from metastatic breast

cancer through hypnosis where she goes back and reconnects with this

abandoned part of herself, grows it up from a child into an

adult..and eventually cures her cancer...It is fascinating reading

and will blow your mind...I forget the name of the book, it is a

classic and a little obscure... The woman was from New England, her

husband was a psychiatrist, hypnotherapist, something like that....

 

Scott

[Guest guest]

<<found this interesting. What about in the case of autoimmune diseases?

When the immune system starts destroying it's own healthy tissues after a

virus? I would be interested in hearing about different theories as to why

the body turns on itself. And more important--how to stop it>>

 

I don't really have any answers, except to postulate that when the immune

sytem is not challanged by all the bugs out there, it gets bored and starts

to work on the body instead.

 

Love and Light, Ninox

 

 

 

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.375 / Virus Database: 210 - Release 10/07/02

[Guest guest]

Cynthia,

Check the files for Lemon Egg - it's the best for calcium for osteo!

Suzi

am1cyn wrote:

Hi All,I am newbie not only to this group, but to Alternative Medicine also. I was wondering if anyone has some recomendations on a Natrual approach to Hormone Replacement Therapy, and Osteoporosis? I am menopausal and have Osteo. The doctors have me on birthcontrol pills and Fosamax currently. I guess I should mention my age also, I'm 28. :0) I would greatly appreciate any Feedback. Thank you,Cynthia

HotJobs, a service - Search Thousands of New Jobs

[Guest guest]

Karen welcome to the group. Doc does sell it and his private e-mail addy is in the files. I've found some good quality and price at mountainroseherbs.com, but there are many others out there. I know what ya mean about Chinese, Ayurvedic, etc. I want to learn it all hehe! Too many plants and not enough me it seems ;-) Luckily Doc is a Naturopath, which covers all these and much, much more; and he is the best teacher I have ever had.

 

Janet

 

-

Karen <septemberlibra24

herbal remedies

Sunday, December 29, 2002 7:00 PM

[herbal remedies] Newbie

Hello, I joined the list a few days ago and I am really happy that I have. Whomever posted about the shampoos really helped! My husband has problems with shampoos and I was able to get him a sulfite free shampoo. I hope this helps his scalp. As for me, I find natural healing interesting but find it difficult to incorporate into my daily life. Also I'm torn between the different types of healing, chinese, ayurvedic, homeopathic etc. I grew up taking mostly homeopathic remedies when I was ill. As such I have a really good immune system. Right now I'm seriously out of whack and have been looking for a Naturopathic doctor to set me on the right path. That's why I was so excited to find this list. My regular doctor has been good in the fact that he doesn't believe in dispensing antibiotics or meds for anything and everything, but tradional medicine has only been able to treat the symptom with meds and not take care of the cause. I've been reviewing the files and I know where to find some of the herbs for the Total Nutrition Formula, but I was looking online for others and they seem really high priced. Any suggestions on where to look for reasonable organic herbs? "Doc" do you sell your TN Remedy? Karen Bosque Farms, NM Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

[Guest guest]

Hi I'm new to this list, I have been reading for the last couple weeks.

There seems to be a wide range of ideas and

experiences on list.

 

I have been interested in natural healing and health for some 10 years,

but I have intensified my interest in the last 18 months.

 

In 1997 I was one of over 6 million people that took alittle cocktail

called fenphen. I had the year before had my 3rd child and over that

year had lost some of the pregnancy weight but not all. I still had

alittle less than 30 pounds to loose.

 

I had heard about fenphen from a friend as well as my pharmacist, and it

had done wonders for them.

 

S I decided to give it a try.

 

I saw my Dr who told me it was perfectly safe, it had been used in Europe

for 18 years with wonderful success.

 

I started it in November 96 and by Christmas had lost 20 pounds, by June

97 I had lost 50 pounds and was back to my high school weight. I

thought that was pretty cool.

 

Talking to people now they really don't have correct information. It

was not a bullet to thinness. It simply made it easier, but not easy!

I still had to work at loosing the weight. I walked 4 miles

every morning.

 

I should mention here that I had some side effects such as irregular

heart beat, no appetite at all, hyperactivity, and insomnia. I had

seen my Dr monthly and spoke to him regularly about the side effects.

He told me straight out that this was all normal as I was increasing my

metabolism.

 

After I stopped taking fenphen I experienced severe depression that went

on not for weeks or months but years.

 

I also got pregnant that fall. My baby died at 27 weeks. As did

the next 6 babys all between 22 and 27 weeks.

 

Dr's called it unexplained fetal death.

 

Over the next several years I continued to have depression and bouts of

irregular heart rate.

 

When I sought medical attention it was thought that it was from hormone

in balances from pregnancy that was causing both depression and the

irregular heart beats.

 

In 2001 I had my last biological child die at 25 weeks. I decided to

have my tubes tied.

 

We adopted alittle girl the same year.

 

In January 2002 after some urging from my husband I decided to have an

attorney sponsored echo cardiogram for heart valve damage that is now

known to be associated with fenphen usage.

 

I really didn't think I had a problem. I'm in good health. I had

the echo and found I have moderate damage to my mitral valve. I

really was in shock. After I left my attorneys office I went to see

my family Dr (not the same Dr who gave me the fenphen by the way) who

told me that all the hype about the damage this drug caused was just that

hype and that there office had prescribed it it hundreds of patients and

none had damage, but she'd send me to the hospital for a repeat echo.

Indeed, I had damage. It's considered functional at this time. I

have 29% regurgitation from my mitral valve, my ejection fraction is

lowered at 55% and my left atrium is slightly enlarged at 4.1

 

I joined a support group and found I was not the only one who had damage.

In fact there's alot of us, and many are far worse off than I am.

We also have what is called neurotoxicity. Pondomin or the fen in

fenphen caused an increase in Seritonin and then also blocked is

matabolization. So we produced more and was in the blood for longer.

When we stopped taking fenphen it caused great depression in more than

80% of those that took it. In a smaller number about 10 percent it

caused psychosis.

I went to Johns Hopkins Hospital In Baltimore Maryland to be diagnosed.

Again, I was lucky, mine is mild. I have mild loss of

concentration, memory loss, and depression.

 

I also started to find out the drug companys hand in all this.

They new that this drug caused heart valve damage and pulmonary

hypertension and lied to the FDA and falsified documents so that the drug

could be approved.

Why? The almighty dollar. They new what kind of money they would

make. In fact when all is said and done, the amount that AHP will

have paid out in medical claims will only be 1/3 of the prophet they have

made. Now mind you they have already paid out billions of dollars and

are expected to pay out even more before it's all done.

How do I know, anyone can read the court transcripts for the fenphen

litigation.

It's an eye opener.

 

I also found a great number of us have had hyperthyroidism since having

taken fenphen, as well as depression, and miscarriage or fetal demise.

I met a girl who took it when she was 22 to loose 10 pounds, she was

getting married and wanted to fit into a smaller wedding dress. She

got into the smaller dress, also got pregnant while on her honeymoon and

she and her baby girl both had mitral and aortic valve regurg.

She could only claim her damage and not her childs because the drug

company fought it in court saying there's no evidence that pondomin would

cause heart valve damage in a developing fetus.

 

So as you may guess, I'm rather left wing now. I'm trying to baby

myself and increase my health. But I refuse to believe anything DR's

tell me at face value, they only know what the pharmaceutical companys

want them to know.

And many health companys rely so heavily on the financial support of the

pharma industry, that they are made to push the drug industry agenda.

 

The two things I am working on right now and wanting to improve is asthma

and allergys, and this actually is proving to be difficult as I have

horses and boy do they make me wheeze, sneeze, itch and twitch, LOL

All in good time i guess.

 

I enjoy reading every ones posts. It's been very interesting and

informative.

 

Oh my name is Ginger and I'm a 41 year old mom of 4 children Elliott is

14, Nate is 9, Navar is 7 and our baby is 20 months. I'm a certified

midwife, Doula, lactation consultant and child birth educator. If

anyone should ever be interested in adoptive breast feeding let me know.

I breast fed our adopted daughter exclusively for her first year.

 

I look forward to reading more. Hope ya'll don't mind me jumping in

and contributing or asking questions

 

Hugs

Ginger

 

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