Gestational diabetes : please suggest any remedy

[Guest guest]

My wife is now 28 weeks pregnant and a blood test revealed that her

sugar level is 140. The doctor mentioned the cutoff is like 130 and

asked my wife to control sugar in diet. My wife also has very frequent

urination almost every 15 mins and is affecting her sleep. Since she

is working there is also little rest she can get during the day.The

nurse mentioned that it could be due to stress the glucose levels have

risen.I really dont want her to take any allopathic drugs to bring

down the sugar level or take insulin. We live in USA and there is no

Ayurvedic practitioner in our area. So please suggest any remedy to

control gestational diabetes.

 

Thanks and regards,

D.T

[Guest guest]

Though there are suggestions to increase protein content so that

sugar peaks are mild after meals, proteins need more water after

meals and also cause more urine output to eliminate acids developed

after digestion.

One simple suggestion for gestational diabetes is given by this

author at:

http://health.ayurveda/message/5288

 

There is a home remedy too:

 

Soak 1 tsp fenugreek seeds in a cup of water overnight and drink only

water next morning empty stomach. do not eat anything thereafter till

hunger is felt.

 

Other home remedies to reduce insulin resistance cant be suggested to

a pregnant lady.

 

Natural insulin is available in bitter melon(bitter gourd, karela)

which acts fast and is safe too, but use it in a gradually

increasing dose. Only at breakfast time, once a day, dose restricted

such that only one or two motions occur within 3-4 hours after taking

it. Length og gourd should be half the length of index finger, if

diameter of the gourd is not more than one inch. this starting dose

can be adjusted with experience. Diabetic patients of this author

take the juice/raw fruit only thrice a week. fenugreek or bitter

gourd, try only one of them, whichever is convenient. to be taken in

the morning only.

 

Frequent urination may be due to pressure of expanding uterus on

bladder, which will be relieved a little by either of above two home

remedies. But if you have an experienced ayurvedist nearby, you may

try oil basti. This will relieve constipation without taking any

herbs as well as reduce apan vata imbalance (causing reduced urine

flow per visit). If there is nothing else adverse, the bastis taken

during last few weeks of gestation strengthen pelvic muscles to an

extent where likely C-section can be avoided and VB can result with

much less pain. Since oils used in basti are patient specific, vaidya

should give it.

 

ayurveda , " desert_thought "

<desert_thought wrote:

>

> My wife is now 28 weeks pregnant and a blood test revealed that her

> sugar level is 140. The doctor mentioned the cutoff is like 130 and

> asked my wife to control sugar in diet.

[Guest guest]

On 30-Aug-07, at 2:24 AM, ayurveda wrote:

 

> Though there are suggestions to increase protein content so that

> sugar peaks are mild after meals, proteins need more water after

> meals and also cause more urine output to eliminate acids developed

> after digestion.

 

 

where is your evidence for this claim shirish?

this is a curious mis-construction of the basic causes of polyuria in

diabetes

 

lets do a little recap for the good people at home, who may be

confused by your statement

 

what causes increased urine output in diabetes?

 

" When the glucose concentration in the blood is high (i.e., above the

" renal threshold " ), reabsorption of glucose in the proximal renal

tubuli is incomplete, and part of the glucose remains in the urine

(glycosuria). This increases the osmotic pressure of the urine and

thus inhibits the resorption of water by the kidney, resulting in an

increased urine production (polyuria) and an increased fluid loss.

Lost blood volume will be replaced osmotically from water held in

body cells, causing dehydration and increased thirst. "

 

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetes

 

so, hopefully we can put to rest the supposition that protein

consumption promotes the increased urination and thirst of diabetes!

 

as far as concerns about " acids " these are easily addresses by

increasing the consumption of non-starchy vegetables, and drinking

adequate water

 

for a person suffering from diabetes, you can take all the karela you

want but if you still eat an otherwise high carb diet it will have a

minimal impact upon diabetes - at best its like chewing gum in the

dam - a stop gap maybe helpful measure that doesn't address the core

issue

 

consuming a low carb diet remains the single most effective method to

stabilize and lower blood sugars in diabetes, bar none

in my estimation it is irresponsible to deny this fact in support of

a narrow dietary/philosophical agenda

 

my dear shirish, since you have probably never recommended a low carb

diet to a patient you won't have first hand clinical knowledge of its

benefits, and because of your vegetarianism you have an

understandable antagonism towards it - but are you really serving the

best interests of your patients by perpetuating mistruths? is your

religion preeminent to all other evidence, even if it runs contrary

to basic fact??

 

while i have only been in practice for just over a decade, i have

used both veg and nonveg approaches, and i am very confident in my

estimation that a properly constructed low carb diet is the single

most important intervention someone with diabetes could ever make

 

once again, a good place for the diabetic is to read, re-read and

constantly reference dr. richard bernstein's " diabetes solution "

http://www.diabetes-normalsugars.com/

 

for those interested, you can find a detailed review of protein and

kidney function here: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/

articlerender.fcgi?artid=1262767

 

best to all...

Caldecott, Dip. Cl.H, RH(AHG)

Ayurvedic practitioner, Medical Herbalist

203 - 1750 East 10th Ave

Vancouver, BC V5N 5K4 CANADA

web: http//:www.toddcaldecott.com

email: todd

tel: 778.896.8894

fax: 415.376.6736

[Guest guest]

ayurveda , Todd Caldecott <todd

wrote:

>

> On 30-Aug-07, at 2:24 AM, ayurveda wrote:

>

> > Though there are suggestions to increase protein content so that

> > sugar peaks are mild after meals, proteins need more water after

> > meals and also cause more urine output to eliminate acids

developed

> > after digestion.

>

>

> where is your evidence for this claim shirish?

> this is a curious mis-construction of the basic causes of polyuria

in diabetes

>

> so, hopefully we can put to rest the supposition that protein

> consumption promotes the increased urination and thirst of diabetes!

 

Ayurveda is not evidence based medicine, though modern science influence, need

for research topics for vaidyas trained in universities and ayurvedic pharmas

trying to use it as an advertising tool (similar to synthetic medicine

manufacturers) are pulling it in that direction. Author firms up his ideas

based on actual experience

on himself and his pateinets. The common observations of body's behaviour can be

verified by everyone be self experience. The knowledge which can not be verified

is not useful for that person. And yourself provide agreement with increased

need of water in next para! if one does not drink, he will develop the thirst.

 

>

> as far as concerns about " acids " these are easily addresses by

> increasing the consumption of non-starchy vegetables, and drinking

> adequate water

 

 

And there is one more angle here. many types of drinking water just run through

the body, without hydrating it. This could also be the reason in this case for

increased urination.

 

>

> consuming a low carb diet remains the single most effective method

to

> stabilize and lower blood sugars in diabetes, bar none

> in my estimation it is irresponsible to deny this fact in support

of

> a narrow dietary/philosophical agenda

 

everyone is unique and each patient is to be looked into whole, not

just diabetes or just one symptom. Here is a patient running 29th week of

pregnancy, has

a small increase in blood sugar to which name " gestational diabetes "

has been given. author has not attached her frequent urination to

diabetes at all! bladder pressure is linked to baby in the womb

trying to occupy all the volume it finds! that is why, the increased

urination, unbalance in apana, is being suggested to correct by

bastis under supervision. and apana gets further vitiated by adding

difficult to digest proteins. There are a number of other reasonings

here. we do not know whether she has taken any incompatible food.

Patient may be already consuming proteins, adequate to take needs of

herself and babies. The totality of stress by work, lack of sleep by

frequent bathrom visits with attendant loss of dhatus, deranging

vata.

 

The use of karela giving rapid relief for both constipation and

urination has been verified by this author in similar patients in

gestation, what Todd or Bernsetin says something opposite has no

concern on the anvil of experience.

http://health.ayurveda/message/8414

 

when someone is seeking a remedy

with no preference for allopathic drugs or insulin, home remedy is

the first choice. Even if you wish to suggest free range meat, fish

oil etc, where do you get it Todd? A working woman does not have time

to take care of herself! Unless a vaidya puts himself in patients

shoes he cant arrive at a workable solutions.

 

You have given excessive attention to diabetes, while author

addressed the burning issue first. animal sourced fats are available

plenty in cow ghee, and even plant proteins are difficult to digest

for many.

 

attaching fats and proteins to non- vegetarianism etc is your

frequent habit, while author had not even touched that issue.

secondly there was nothing in the post to deny or attack Bernstein

philosophy. Author wished to emphasize that in this particular case

something simple as kitchen spice and vegetable could bring the

problem to a comfortable level. drastic change in diet is very

difficult to get done for a working patient, even if he is in

personal contact. For a hosewife, slow change is possible. Again,

how much importance a patient gives to his/her health is also

importance.

 

Children, whose mothers had good diet during gestation, adequate

ginger and fenugreek during post partum while nursing and who were

fed janma-ghuti, mixture of large number of herbs to tackle all

infantile problems have not faced diabetes or hypertension later in

life. nor moms put up obesity as a result of vata herbs. bitter herbs from

birth, even if mothers milk is the

diet. Prsent generations problems are due to missing bitter herbs and

inadequate/pesticides ladden mothers milk/cow milk in childhood.

[Guest guest]

> Re: Gestational diabetes : please suggest any remedy

>

> Posted by: " Shirish Bhate " shirishbhate shirishbhate

>

> >

> > consuming a low carb diet remains the single most effective method

> to

> > stabilize and lower blood sugars in diabetes, bar none

> > in my estimation it is irresponsible to deny this fact in support

> of

> > a narrow dietary/philosophical agenda

>

> everyone is unique and each patient is to be looked into whole, not

> just diabetes or just one symptom. Here is a patient running 29th

> week of pregnancy, has

> a small increase in blood sugar to which name " gestational diabetes "

> has been given. author has not attached her frequent urination to

> diabetes at all! bladder pressure is linked to baby in the womb

> trying to occupy all the volume it finds! that is why, the increased

> urination, unbalance in apana, is being suggested to correct by

> bastis under supervision.

 

i would agree that the growing fetus itself is an obvious cause of

increased urination, which also causes other common problems of late

pregnancy including reflux and constipation

 

what puzzled me is that your advice at the outset suggested that

proteins are the culprit, without even finding out about her diet!!

 

 

> and apana gets further vitiated by adding

> difficult to digest proteins.

 

it is a myth that animal proteins are difficult to digest

if it were then humans would never evolved

 

perhaps if one has been eating exclusively vegan for some years then

it may prove to be difficult, but this isn't because proteins are

difficult to digest per se, but because the stomach's production of

acid is diminished (i.e. weakened agni)

 

my experience is that consuming properly prepared proteins in proper

combinations actually improves digestion in most people, because it

creates a feedback loop whereby more acid is produced

 

this has a net benefit in the system including increased

thermogenesis (body heat) and enhanced immunity - everything you

would expect from agni being properly restored

 

in actual fact, vegetable proteins, cereals and grains have far more

antinutrient and digestive-blocking activities than pure animal

protein and fat, which require very little processing

 

> There are a number of other reasonings

> here. we do not know whether she has taken any incompatible food.

> Patient may be already consuming proteins, adequate to take needs of

> herself and babies. The totality of stress by work, lack of sleep by

> frequent bathrom visits with attendant loss of dhatus, deranging

> vata.

 

agreed! but these things weren't mentioned, and i found it very

curious that you went after the one thing that might help her if she

has glycosuria

 

>

> The use of karela giving rapid relief for both constipation and

> urination has been verified by this author in similar patients in

> gestation, what Todd or Bernsetin says something opposite has no

> concern on the anvil of experience.

> http://health.ayurveda/message/8414

 

while karela is a wonderful healing food it won't address the

underlying causes of diabetes, caused by excessive CHO consumption

given that karela is widely consumed throughout India, perhaps the

author can explain how it has failed to stem the highest rate of

diabetes of any country!

 

please don't get me wrong - i am not saying its not _helpful_, but

then again so are many herbs such as garlic, turmeric, shitake

mushroom, tomatoes, blueberries and many many other foods, but none

will address the underlying factor of diabetes, gestational or

otherwise if the diet remains high in carbs

 

>

> when someone is seeking a remedy

> with no preference for allopathic drugs or insulin, home remedy is

> the first choice. Even if you wish to suggest free range meat, fish

> oil etc, where do you get it Todd? A working woman does not have time

> to take care of herself! Unless a vaidya puts himself in patients

> shoes he cant arrive at a workable solutions.

 

free-range/organic produce is readily available in many places

in some locales, sometimes you might have to search a little, but

this should be expected whenever one is looking for healthful options

i can tell you that in my city it is far easier to find free-range/

organic produce than karela!

 

 

>

> You have given excessive attention to diabetes, while author

> addressed the burning issue first. animal sourced fats are available

> plenty in cow ghee, and even plant proteins are difficult to digest

> for many.

>

> attaching fats and proteins to non- vegetarianism etc is your

> frequent habit, while author had not even touched that issue.

 

it seemed to me you did, by suggesting that proteins were a likely

cause of her frequent urination

if you hadn't mentioned this i would not have felt compelled to comment

 

>

> Children, whose mothers had good diet during gestation, adequate

> ginger and fenugreek during post partum while nursing and who were

> fed janma-ghuti, mixture of large number of herbs to tackle all

> infantile problems have not faced diabetes or hypertension later in

> life.

 

you must be over 100 years old then, to see the long term effects of

such interventions

regardless, i have no problems with these recommendations per se, but

lots of populations have never touched these foods and have remained

diabetes free

 

interesting anthropological note - India is striking as a region that

has probably had the longest history of diabetes, whereas in many

cultures it is a relatively recent phenomena - in this case an appeal

to great antiquity isn't a good thing

 

best...

Caldecott, Dip. Cl.H, RH(AHG)

Ayurvedic practitioner, Medical Herbalist

203 - 1750 East 10th Ave

Vancouver, BC V5N 5K4 CANADA

web: http//:www.toddcaldecott.com

email: todd

tel: 778.896.8894

fax: 415.376.6736

[Guest guest]

Dear Shirish and

Is it not essential that any gestational problem has to be dealt in presence and

confirmation of proper medical personnel who is attending the aggrieved patient?

Gestation always has two issues - effect on pregnant mother and effect on the

foetus inside the womb.

We are discussing measures to reduce her additional blood sugar. But have we

thought of the fact that after following the guidelines given in your mails, if

the blood sugar falls below normal level ie. patient becomes hypoglycaemic, what

will be effect on the foetus? If at all there are losses, who should be held

responsible and answerable?

Dear Shirish, when we are talking Ayurveda, where are the other symptoms to

label the patient as to treat her for Madhumaha? Are we going to consider the

blood sugar levels only to justify our stand?

Any medical science does not run on personal experiences or patient's opinions,

but has to be confirmed by scientific evidences and properly laid principles.

Hence your argument does not stand good when we are discussing medical topics.

Dear has the patient's query been successfully answered? Or are we

debating within ourselves to validate our opinions? By the way, can you

translate the concepts and utility of this protein-carbohydrate discussion in

Ayurvedic terms?

 

Dr.D.B.Muzumdar

M.D.Ayurvedic-Medicine (INDIA)

_______________

<snip>

Ayurveda is not evidence based medicine, though modern science influence, need

for research topics for vaidyas trained in universities and ayurvedic pharmas

trying to use it as an advertising tool (similar to synthetic medicine

manufacturers) are pulling it in that direction. Author firms up his ideas based

on actual experience

on himself and his pateinets.

<snip>

 

> consuming a low carb diet remains the single most effective method

to

> stabilize and lower blood sugars in diabetes, bar none

> in my estimation it is irresponsible to deny this fact in support

of

> a narrow dietary/philosophical agenda

 

everyone is unique and each patient is to be looked into whole, not

just diabetes or just one symptom. <snip>

author has not attached her frequent urination to

diabetes at all!

[Guest guest]

> Is it not essential that any gestational problem has to be dealt in

> presence and confirmation of proper medical personnel who is

> attending the aggrieved patient?

 

dislaimer on home page of ayurveda ansers this question. Anyone can

offer suggestions for evaluation by person who posted querry.

Receipent of suggestions has to evaluate those in consultation with

his doctor/healer. ayurveda discussion can not be compared

to what may happen in a ayurvedic clinic or hospital. Here we discuss

possibilities. For actual decision, patient should approach his

vaidya/doctor/MD/Dietician/Physiotherapist.

 

> Gestation always has two issues - effect on pregnant mother and

> effect on the foetus inside the womb.

> We are discussing measures to reduce her additional blood sugar.

> But have we thought of the fact that after following the guidelines

> given in your mails, if the blood sugar falls below normal level ie.

> patient becomes hypoglycaemic, what will be effect on the foetus? If

> at all there are losses, who should be held responsible and

> answerable?

 

This is legal language, answered already in our home page. additionally, a USA

patient under U.S.A. health care is not likely to take a natural insulin remedy

without monitoring blood sugar?

 

By the way, both fenugreek and bitter gourd, both food items, well known for

reducing insulin resistance, both help lactation in post partum. In this

author's experience, sugar going down to dangerous levels never happened, if

one is following 100% ayurvedic approach and patient listens to the body. It is

the duty of a vaidya to teach the patients how to listen to the body. The sugar

going down was however noted when allopathic meds were combined with ayurvedic

ones, by some patients. Increased bio-availability of allopathic meds in

presence of ayurvedic ones may have been the cause.

 

Ayurvedic assessment of bitetr gourd is here:

http://ezinearticles.com/?Bitter-Melon-(Karela)---Bitter-Gourd-for-Diabetes-Mell\

itus & id=263300

 

If any material on above website conflicts with ayurveda texts, all would be

happy to know.

 

Here is Successful real life experience of using bitter gourd twice a day

during gestation, in addition to insulin dose! And it includes blood sugar

control too!

 

http://www.doctorndtv.com/FAQ/detailfaq.asp?id=10260

 

Noteworthy that author suggested less than half of the above dose.

 

> when we are talking Ayurveda, where are the other symptoms to label

> the patient as to treat her for Madhumaha? Are we going to consider

> the blood sugar levels only to justify our stand?

 

Gestational diabetes has already created enough confusion, Madhumeha is an

addition.

 

> Any medical science does not run on personal experiences or

> patient's opinions, but has to be confirmed by scientific evidences

> and properly laid principles. Hence your argument does not stand

> good when we are discussing medical topics.

 

Above statement can be applied to all home remedies proven by Grandmas,

naturopathy, homeopathy, unani and siddha too!

 

It is unfortunate that to make the decisions firm, scientific

evidence (diagnostics) is needed at the cost of patients purse.

Since acharyas did not present scientific evidence, nor they insisted

diagnostics of moden days, author feels that ayurveda is not a

scientific and evidence based science. But it has helped people retain good

health. Hence let us not link

allopathic parameters (e.g. blood sugar) with ayurvedic suggestions. The

arguments like these will continue as long as patient, instead of giving his

symptoms, history etc, says he has xyz disease named by allopathy. In finding

out correspondence between two names (allopathic and ayurvedic) non-uniqueness

conflict is most likely. We already have some inconclusive discussion regarding

diabetes and madhumeha in archives. Dr Venugopal who initiated it, left it

unfinished.

[Guest guest]

dear dr. muzumdar

 

in recent times i have avoided giving detailed advice on non-

practitioner lists because any protocol implemented needs to be

monitored by a practitioner - thus even while i want to help i try to

speak in general terms, and encourage folks to consult with

practitioners in their local area

 

if i have given them a little insight, and maybe a basis upon which

to ask informed questions, that is all i want to do

 

while i feel most of the information and advice provided on

ayurveda_online is pretty good, sometimes its clouded by agendas that

have no basis in ayurveda or natural medicine, or promulgate beliefs

and quite frankly superstitions that damage the integrity of the

medicine

 

case in point is the overt and subtle emphasis upon dietary agendas,

i.e. vegetarianism, that have no basis in ayurveda

 

the present issue came up because one writer stated that a woman with

gestational diabetes was suffering from urinary frequency of

excessive protein consumption, all without having the benefit of

actually knowing what her diet was (what kind of siddhi is that!?)

 

in this case, restricting protein intake a pregnant woman does not

make any sense, and in my clinical experience, is totally counter to

an effective strategy to maintain healthy blood sugar levels and

proper fetal development - i was simply taking exception to this claim

 

i have no problem with anyone offering good advice, and appreciate

hearing sound dietary and therapeutic strategies for vegetarians -

however, i cannot abide by comments that seek to shift the perception

of health and wellness on the list by emphasizing a philosophical

agenda and calling it " truth "

 

***

 

OK! as for diabetes, carbohydrate restriction and ayurveda...

 

if we speak in pure ayurvedic terms of course you know that there is

no such thing as diabetes per se, but a group of disorders under the

heading prameha, of which one in particular - madhumeha - seems to be

very close to if not identical with diabetes mellitus

 

the samprapti of madhumeha consists of five components, including

dosha, dushya, srotas, ama and agni, and so we must look at all these

factors

 

as far as the doshas are concerned, classical texts state that

madhumeha corresponds to a vata increase, and although all three

doshas can play a role, the importance and emphasis that madhumeha is

a vata disorder is very clear - sometimes there is confusion because

the pramehas are generally described as being kapha in origin (the

accumulation of kleda being a commonality)

 

madhumeha presents some interesting challenges from an ayurvedic

perspective, a sort of contradiction in terms, which i am not sure is

entirely helpful and in this issue i have sought to bring another

perspective

 

on the one hand, ayurveda tells us that a vata disorder should be

treated with brimhana therapies, and yet the *typical* rich foods and

sweet-tasting herbs used to reduce vata will often increase blood

sugar; likewise, a langhana/kapha-reducing diet and herbs are too

light and astringent in the blood and can aggravate vata and the

neuroregulatory control over blood sugar

 

thus, ayurveda would tell us we have to take a moderated approach,

assessing which component, i.e. vata or kapha is predominant

to my thinking, pitta plays a secondary role in the inflammatory

process that gives rise to sequalae and extra-diabetic complications,

which can dominate the clinical presentation (e.g. septicemia)

 

from my perspective, the distinguishing clinical feature of pre-

diabetes is not clearly articulated in ayurveda, but in medicine is

the metabolic syndrome x pattern

 

even in medical circles however this syndrome is either ignored or

modified to some support pharmaceutical intervention, when in actual

fact the best treatment is *proper* diet, herbs/supplements, and

regular vigorous exercise

 

a clinical feature of pre-diabetes is disproportionate truncal-

abdominal obesity - excessive weight around the middle, and a waist

to hip ratio of more than 1 for men, and more than 0.8 for women;

almost all diabetics will report this feature early on in the

progression of their condition

 

to my thinking, it is this *disproportionality* in obesity that

should raise the alarm of a vata increase - kapha obesity is

generally symetrical and well-distributed, although if this is a

constitutional factor it can sometimes act to " hide " the vata

increase (i.e. dysfunctional neuro-regulatory control)

 

to reduce vata in the prediabetic syndrome, carbohydrate restriction

is highly effective at reducing/eliminating clinical features as well

as more " objective " assessments such as dyslipidemia - and it

addresses the conundrum identified in ayurveda

 

the key to the diet is to provide the brimhana component (i.e.

proteins and fats), while eliminating those foods (i.e. carbs) that

sweeten the blood too much

 

to reduce kleda and kapha, typical astringent vegetables (e.g. leafy

greens) can be consumed in abundance, along with kapha-reducing

lifestyle modifications such as exercise, which should be targeted

also to reduce vata simultaneously, which is *why* muscle-building

anaerobic exercise in particular is so highly effective (aerobic

exercise tends to increase vata)

 

while this one size fits all approach needs to be modified for each

individual, it is a very effective basis upon which to address

diabetes and the prediabetic syndrome

 

anyone can argue all they want with my philosophy, my ethics, etc.,

but let the doubters try this therapy and report back to me

 

the proof, as they say, is in the " pudding "

 

 

best...

Caldecott, Dip. Cl.H, RH(AHG)

Ayurvedic practitioner, Medical Herbalist

203 - 1750 East 10th Ave

Vancouver, BC V5N 5K4 CANADA

web: http//:www.toddcaldecott.com

email: todd

tel: 778.896.8894

fax: 415.376.6736

 

 

 

______

> Is it not essential that any gestational problem has to be dealt in

> presence and confirmation of proper medical personnel who is

> attending the aggrieved patient?

<Snip>

> Dear has the patient's query been successfully answered? Or

> are we debating within ourselves to validate our opinions? By the

> way, can you translate the concepts and utility of this protein-

> carbohydrate discussion in Ayurvedic terms?

Snipped mpost can be read in full at

http://health.ayurveda/message/11062

[Guest guest]

I fully understand the limitations of internet based consulations

wherein the Vaidya has not even seen the patient. My wife has been

regularly seeing an obstetrician/gynaecologist and we are not solely

dependent on internet based consulatations. I just want to use

Ayurvedic principles from a diet/excercise standpoint there is no

Ayurvedic specialist in my area.

 

Since we follow a South-Indian diet which on allopathic terms a high

carb diet I wanted to know if it needs any sort of modifications.

Actually her condition is critical now since she is feeling dizzy

often and her obstetrician/gynaecologist told that its due to low

blood sugar levels and asked her to consult a dietician.In US doctor

appointments are not immediate and it could take upto few days to

get one. So in the meantime I just wanted to make sure if anything

else can be done in her diet. For the past week she has been

drinking water of soaked Fenugreek seeds and her diet has been

pretty much regular south-indian diet.

 

 

What kind of food is good for her ? How much of rice can she have

everyday ?

 

What kind of excercise can she especially since she is in her third

trimester do to keep sugar levels in control ?

 

There are several kinds of pranayama ? Which one is good for her ?

 

What fruits is best for her ?

 

 

Thanks,

DT

 

ayurveda , Todd Caldecott <todd

wrote:

> in recent times i have avoided giving detailed advice on non-

> practitioner lists because any protocol implemented needs to be

> monitored by a practitioner - thus even while i want to help i try

to

> speak in general terms, and encourage folks to consult with

> practitioners in their local area <snip>

Full message can be read at

http://health.ayurveda/message/11075

[Guest guest]

Hello

 

i aggreed it is not possible to solve complete problem without seing

a patient.

Now for her and baby care she should only do - SUKHASANA in pranayam.

 

in this persone should sit comfortably as we sit to pray. spinal

cord shoud keep straight and take breath (inhale as well as exhel)

slowly.

 

In case of in the third trimenster according to ayurveda if lady is

not too fat then she should consume SHEHANA (Ghee, Milk, butter) in

large amount.

 

she should be light meal.

 

She can take all seasonal fruits but take less amount of citrus

fruits.

 

She should perform light cooly and slow walk daily, do all she daily

work by herself.

She should be mentaly cool and enrgetic each and every moment.

She should daily participate in prayer to pray and to Thank GOD

 

u r most welcome for further queiries...

 

regards

 

Dr. D S. Agrawal

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ayurveda , " desert_thought "

<desert_thought wrote:

<Snip>

> What kind of food is good for her ? How much of rice can she have

> everyday ?

>

> What kind of excercise can she especially since she is in her third

> trimester do to keep sugar levels in control ?

>

> There are several kinds of pranayama ? Which one is good for her ?

>

> What fruits is best for her ?

[Guest guest]

hi DT

 

possibly the fenugreek is too strong, and is now promoting the

hypoglycemia - we use it a lot to lower blood sugar and it is

reliable, so maybe leave this alone for awhile

 

rather than focus on high or low blood sugar exclusively, its better

to see them as ultimately paired phenomena - blood sugar

irregularities - thus the most effective treatment doesn't try to

attack either syndrome, but to create balance

 

in my previous comments i mentioned the utility of proteins and fats

to stabilize blood sugar, and while i still feel that animal versions

of these are more effective, even vegetarian options will be helpful

to mediate blood sugar

 

these include nuts, seeds and legumes (the latter mixed with fat),

whole grain high protein grains such as quinoa and oat, all mixed

with generous amounts of high quality fat, e.g. coconut, butter/ghee,

cheese, avocado etc - these types of foods can be eaten earlier in

the day for breakfast, and then throughout the day as needed as a

snack, e.g. a couple slices of cheese, a handful of lightly roasted

almonds, etc.

 

for e.g., a good vegetarian breakfast option is one cup fresh-cooked

piping hot quinoa, to which is added vegies like sprouts, half an

avocado, maybe some cucumber and tomato; over this add a sauce

prepared with tahini and soy sauce to taste, and a small handful of

crushed lightly roasted almonds - i know its not south indian, but it

is high in both fat and protein, and perhaps it can inspire a more

healthful indian version

 

be careful with sweet fruits, and stick to " half-sweet " varieties,

such as raspberries, blueberries, apples, or tropical fruits like

guava, passionfruit, avoiding real sweet fruits like banana, mango,

papaya, orange etc.

 

another note: i would be suspicious of possible nutrient

deficiencies, and might add these into the regimen

this includes omega 3 fatty acids, B-complex, magnesium, chromium and

zinc

 

best wishes... todd

Caldecott, Dip. Cl.H, RH(AHG)

Ayurvedic practitioner, Medical Herbalist

203 - 1750 East 10th Ave

Vancouver, BC V5N 5K4 CANADA

web: http//:www.toddcaldecott.com

email: todd

tel: 778.896.8894

fax: 415.376.6736

 

 

 

 

On 8-Sep-07, at 2:20 AM, ayurveda wrote:

 

> Since we follow a South-Indian diet which on allopathic terms a high

> carb diet I wanted to know if it needs any sort of modifications.

> Actually her condition is critical now since she is feeling dizzy

> often and her obstetrician/gynaecologist told that its due to low

> blood sugar levels and asked her to consult a dietician.<snip>

[Guest guest]

hello

besides pranayama i would suggest she would practise badrasana a lot for

balancing apana vayu, which will help her both with the baby and also with the

fluctuations of her parameters and dizziness.

 

[Moderator adds:

Photo of Badrasana is here:>

http://www.freewebs.com/yogasprema2/pp15.html

[Guest guest]

Dear

 

Thanks for your balanced suggestions to this south indian mom.

Frequently, there is overly concern on the amount of carbs in Indian

diet. However, it needs to be noted that no indian eats rice or breads

made from other grains alone. There is always a certain percentage of

protein rich legumes, urid dal is added to give required

heaviness/stability to diet. Idli dosa can not be made without

strongest protein in urid dhal. Pure rice will cause hunger just in

few hours, with possible unease of hypoglycemia. The reason for this is

faulty lifestyle where many eat by schedule rather than body's demands.

Often the sign of hunger is in reality the signal for thirst and since

body gets some water in food, it accepts and gets satisfaction too. Our

culture is to be blamed: no friend, relative, business contact leaves

until something is eaten together.

 

Your thoughts on " low carb, animal fats and higher proteins " dietary

recommendations were studied by this author with interest. Having

majority of vegetarian patients was one factor; the difficulties in

applying this to a class of patients with good agni were mainly due to

non availability of free range meat, eggs. Your premise that agni can

be enhanced with herbs and they can be given protein rich food is

another challenge. Those having strong agni can digest protein rich

foods, meat and have good energy for everything, without adding even a

few grams of weight to the body, as witnessed already by this author.

 

Having interest in the proposal, author tried to find more about it,

you may even recollect having some links and literatutre sent through

mail. Any feedback was to be given after detailed study. Author came

across similar proposals about Paleolithic diet too. Why ayurvedic

approaches may have to differ geographically you have commented

earlier, you may offer some thing more, if needed, on an excerpt from

another email from an alternative practitioner reproduced here in part. Why

India has diabetics growing can also be evident from this.

 

 

<The premise behind the blood type diet combines the principles of the

ABO groupings explained at

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_Type_diet ,

 

first proposed in the

1950's. The basic idea is that blood types evolved from the lifestyles

and diets of different groups of humanity; therefore, you need to eat

the diet natural to the group of humanity from which you are descended.

In other words:

Type O evolved from early hunters who lived primarily on meat. Thus, type O's

should eat lots of meat.

 

· Type A came from early farmers. Thus, type A's should eat

mostly a vegetarian diet.

 

· Type B evolved from nomadic tribes associated with a strong

immune systems and flexible digestive systems. This is the only type

that can thrive on dairy products.

 

· Type AB is the most recently evolved type and should eat a

cross between the nomadic diet and the vegetarian diet.

 

So does the diet hold up to scrutiny?

Perhaps, not so much. First, it's important to remember that the

evolutionary theory of blood groups is only a theory that is unlikely

to stand the test of time. It turns out that environmental factors

probably play a much bigger role in the evolution of blood types and

also explain why certain types are concentrated in certain geographical areas.

 

Nature is filled with trade offs. A person with lots of body fat has

insulation in cold latitudes, but sweats unbearably in the tropics. A

large muscular person is stronger, better able to fight and conquer,

but also requires many more calories to maintain themselves than a

smaller person. The same traits have advantages and disadvantages

depending upon the circumstances, and so with blood types. Each type is

protective against certain diseases and conducive to others.

 

 

Though blood types are genetically inherited, but the environment can

influence which blood types are passed on. An example is seen with the

Black Plague, which killed millions of people in Europe in the 13th and

14th centuries. As it turns out, the Black Plague was caused by a

bacterium that is covered by sugar molecules that closely resemble the

B marker on red cells. That means that since people who were blood type

B back in the plague years didn't make antibodies to that antigen, they

didn't have any antibodies in place to protect them against the plague.

Hence they died in greater numbers than the other blood types which

carried the antibodies.

 

And, in fact, by the 15th century, fatalities from the plague had

decreased significantly as type B blood was systematically phased out

in that part of the world. Thus the distribution of blood types in

Europe (low percentages of Type B as opposed to Asia) is not so much

the result of diet and occupation, but of natural selection based on

disease.

 

Other examples abound. For example, people with type O blood are

susceptible to certain bacteria and viruses that can cause diarrhea and

ulcers, but have a decreased susceptibility to SARs. With that in mind,

we would expect to see, based on natural selection, a greater

concentration of type O blood in Asia, where respiratory diseases such

as SARs tend to be more common, than in Europe. And, indeed, such is

the case. As you can see, a particular blood type may predispose you to

one disease while simultaneously protecting you against another.

 

Variation in the blood type distribution throughout the world reflects

these environmental factors coupled with the tendency of populations to

marry and reproduce within their own groups. As people throughout the

world intermingle to a greater extent, the distribution of the

different blood types is likely to become more uniform throughout the

world.

 

The evolutionary theory of blood types aside, the cornerstone of the

diet is the premise that certain proteins/glycoproteins in food, called

lectins, ape the glycoproteins on red blood cells, thus triggering

immune reactions from the matching blood type. This premise does not

actually require the evolutionary theory to be correct to work. Even if

the theory is wrong, the effect can be true, but probably, not so much.

 

Yes, there is no question that different foods definitely have high

allergy potential for many people, but the problem appears to be less

with the lectins, than with the ability of the digestive tract to fully

break down the proteins in the food. The use of digestive enzymes with

meals and proteolytic enzymes between meals can often help reduce food

allergies dramatically.

 

 

In fact, there is little evidence that lectins, other than a handful of

exceptions such as ricin, present a problem for the human body of any

blood type. But doesn't it work for some people? Absolutely!

 

Simple math works in its favor. If you tell an O, an A, or an AB not to

eat dairy because they don't have the right blood type, then you've

just told the vast majority of people in the world not to eat dairy.

 

Considering all of the problems associated with homogenized,

pasteurized, commercial dairy, a whole lot of people are going to feel

significantly better on the diet…regardless of blood type. On the other

hand, you've also just told a lot of Asians (they have the highest

percentage of type B's in the world) that they'll thrive on dairy.

 

Probably not such a good thing since about 90% of all Asians suffer

from lactose intolerance.

 

Anyway, I've detailed my feelings that diet should be based on

comparing the teeth, stomachs, and digestive tracts of humans to other

animals >

 

 

 

ayurveda , Todd Caldecott <todd wrote:

> possibly the fenugreek is too strong, and is now promoting the

> hypoglycemia - we use it a lot to lower blood sugar and it is

> reliable, so maybe leave this alone for awhile

>

> rather than focus on high or low blood sugar exclusively, its better

> to see them as ultimately paired phenomena - blood sugar

> irregularities - thus the most effective treatment doesn't try to

> attack either syndrome, but to create balance

<snip>

[Guest guest]

hi shirish

 

> Thanks for your balanced suggestions to this south indian mom.

> Frequently, there is overly concern on the amount of carbs in Indian

> diet. However, it needs to be noted that no indian eats rice or breads

> made from other grains alone.

 

perhaps in the traditional Indian kitchen, but here in the West and

in the West Indies where i also had a population of Indian patients,

people either don't have time or a grandma at home to prepare these

things, so they eat instant idli, naan and polished rice, which in

combination with the ubiquitous chai and soft drinks is a disaster

 

i haven't been to india in 10 years, but from what i saw then, the

only populations of people that did not have predominant truncal

abdominal obesity were labourers, beggers and wandering sanyasins

 

i am not making it up that i could not find vaidyas over 30 years of

age that did not have the clinical indications of pre-diabetes

 

with the importation of western junk food into india, i expect the

condition has only gotten worse, as seen in india's sky-rocketing

rates of diabetes

 

if you can stem this tide by advocating a more austere vegetarian

diet more power to you

 

>

> Your thoughts on " low carb, animal fats and higher proteins " dietary

> recommendations were studied by this author with interest. Having

> majority of vegetarian patients was one factor; the difficulties in

> applying this to a class of patients with good agni were mainly due to

> non availability of free range meat, eggs. Your premise that agni can

> be enhanced with herbs and they can be given protein rich food is

> another challenge. Those having strong agni can digest protein rich

> foods, meat and have good energy for everything, without adding even a

> few grams of weight to the body, as witnessed already by this author.

 

my premise is that eating properly prepared animal proteins in

correct combinations will strengthen agni - i have seen it countless

times, myself included - its really just a simple physiological

feedback mechanism that boosts HCl, pepsin and gastrin secretion

 

its also why many naturopathic/functional food practitioners have

employed the " fish and green vegetable diet " for a number of health

conditions, including leaky gut, chronic allergies and auotimmune

disorders, long before there was much interest in paleolithic nutrition

 

 

>

> Having interest in the proposal, author tried to find more about it,

> you may even recollect having some links and literatutre sent through

> mail. Any feedback was to be given after detailed study. Author came

> across similar proposals about Paleolithic diet too. Why ayurvedic

> approaches may have to differ geographically you have commented

> earlier, you may offer some thing more, if needed, on an excerpt from

> another email from an alternative practitioner reproduced here in

> part. Why India has diabetics growing can also be evident from this.

>

> <The premise behind the blood type diet combines the principles of the

> ABO groupings explained at

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_Type_diet ,

>

> first proposed in the

> 1950's. The basic idea is that blood types evolved from the lifestyles

> and diets of different groups of humanity; therefore, you need to eat

> the diet natural to the group of humanity from which you are

> descended.

 

thanks for posting this - the author outlines some of the issues with

the " eat right for your blood type diet " , but not all, and also makes

some broad generalizations that are difficult to assess without

seeing more research

 

for e.g. how come the plague never wiped out type B Indians, that

currently make up 33% of the population?

the obvious answer: hygiene!! (europeans from the early middle ages

were a dirty, smelly superstitious bunch that had no concept of waste

management)

 

the big problem with the blood type diet is that it is entirely

arbitrary - there are over 25 different blood typing systems that

examine the presence or absence of over 120 different antigens on the

surface of a red blood cell

 

really, having A, B or O type is an extremely discrete genetic trait,

certainly less noticeable than other traits such as fingernail shape

or eye color, and what practitioner would say just on the basis of

one or two of these traits that one should formulate a diet around this?

 

why the blood type diet proponents chose just to look at the presence

or absence of just two antigens doesn't make any sense to me, and

thus is really easy to dismiss as a kind of pseudoscience

 

one thing is that the authors of the blood type diet however make it

clear that industrialized food products should be eliminated by

everyone, and is why many people obtain benefit on this diet

 

but as for eating according to blood type, the premise is very weak,

and on several occasions i have seen it not work and cause confusion

and harm

 

to my thinking, factors such as kala, desha, satmya and prakriti are

much more sophisticated indicators

 

and, this also explains why ayurveda needs to be adapted to suit

different peoples living in different places

 

ayurvedic physicians looking to practice in the West should examine

this issue closely

 

best... todd caldecott

 

>

> Though blood types are genetically inherited, but the environment can

> influence which blood types are passed on. An example is seen with the

> Black Plague, which killed millions of people in Europe in the 13th

> and

> 14th centuries. As it turns out, the Black Plague was caused by a

> bacterium that is covered by sugar molecules that closely resemble the

> B marker on red cells. That means that since people who were blood

> type

> B back in the plague years didn't make antibodies to that antigen,

> they

> didn't have any antibodies in place to protect them against the

> plague.

> Hence they died in greater numbers than the other blood types which

> carried the antibodies.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone that responded to my queries. My wife was referred to a

diabetes center by her ob/gyn and here she was given detailed advice on

what to eat, how much to eat and also a glucometer kit to test her blood

sugar. She has been regularly following advice given by Dr.Bhate to

drink soaked Fenugreek seeds water. The diet given to her is very strict

and the serving serving size is so small that one would feel hungry

after an hour. Infact they did have a diet plan for Indians and here is

the diet recommendation.

 

______________________\

____________________

 

Each carbohydrate serving in the exchange system is equal to 15 grams of

carbohydrate

 

1/4 cup Aloo-Baignan or 1/2 cup aloo curry or 2/3 cup Bhindi

 

1/3 cup Boiled rice

 

1/2 mango

 

6oz lassi

 

_____________________

 

She just followed the above diet yesterday and already she is feeling

tired and unable to go for long walks as excercise. With this above diet

she is also asked to walk for 30 minutes a day.

 

The amount of milk she can drink is about 250 ml per day!

 

I'm very concerned of this extreme diet measures to control the blood

sugar where in fruits,milk , rice and grains are very restricted. Only

food she can eat in plenty is nuts and seeds.Also its already taking

toll on me to poke her 4 times a day with the glucometer and seeing her

hungry when she is pregnant.

 

Instead of rice , we have switched to raagi ( a variant of millet used

in Karnataka rich in calcium ) . Also if eating more protein in the

form of meat can help she is willing to do that instead of starving

like this.

 

Please suggest.

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

D.T

 

 

_____,

>

> Thanks for your balanced suggestions to this south indian mom.

> Frequently, there is overly concern on the amount of carbs in Indian

> diet.

[Guest guest]

This is a totally ludicrous and inappropriate diet for a diabetic - try &

get a second opinion - or better still ask Dr Bhate to give you an

indication of what to eat - what you have here is about 99% carbs - you need

to watch this video too to get a better idea of what is possible:

 

http://www.rawfor30days.com/

 

Best,

 

Jane

 

-

" desert_thought " <desert_thought

> Each carbohydrate serving in the exchange system is equal to 15 grams of

> carbohydrate

>

> 1/4 cup Aloo-Baignan or 1/2 cup aloo curry or 2/3 cup Bhindi

>

> 1/3 cup Boiled rice

>

> 1/2 mango

>

> 6oz lassi

>

> _____________________

>

> She just followed the above diet yesterday and already she is feeling

> tired and unable to go for long walks as excercise. With this above diet

> she is also asked to walk for 30 minutes a day.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jane,

 

Thanks for sharing this link. Gabrielle Cousins is doing some really

great work for sure.

 

It's my understand, that Ayurveda recommends mostly cooked food with

some raw food daily. I'd be curious to see if having this kind of

balance would have alleviated some of the anxiety these folks went

through.

 

Blissfully yours,

Patti

--

Patti Garland

Ayurvedic Chef and LifeStyle Coach

Bliss Kitchen

http://www.BlissKitchen.com

(760) 902-7020

__________________________

you need

to watch this video too to get a better idea of what is possible:

 

http://www.rawfor30days.com/

[Guest guest]

raagi is very nutritious and filling. She can add spinach to it with namak and

ginger or she can add nuts and seeds and a bit of honey to it.

She can still eat fruits like those citrus fruits bataya we call it in telugu it

is not too sweet, pal fruit, coconut, just think that she should eat a few times

a day three meals morning dosa made with more dal than rice with sambar, snack

of nuts and milk with ginger in the morning, lunch with dal and raagi or dal and

sabji of almost any kind do not eat more than one roti then at around two she

can have another snack and again supper before 8:oo

She can alo go for walking after meals and start her day with a bit of yoga and

pranayama.

I personally find that when you try to restrict someone's eating, especially a

pregnant woman it does more harm than good.

Just use your basic commoon sense.

She should not eat burfi, jalebi obviously or chikkoo or those fruits that are

too sweet, but with a little exercise and pranayama and common sense she should

be just fine.

She should just reduce sugar and complex carbs - white rice is worse than brown

rice - white flour is worse than whole wheat. Eat one chapati and more dal and

sabji rather than four chapati and little subji - it is just a matter of making

simple changes that will make a big difference. Rather than mixing everything

with rice as is the habit in the south skip the rice and just eat plenty of

vegetables and dal. She will still feel full but will not have the problem of

excess sugar due to excess carbs and again, exercise make a huge difference.

 

_________-

 

My wife was given detailed advice on

what to eat, how much to eat and also a glucometer kit to test her blood

sugar.

[Guest guest]

I'm sure any raw food when taken in correct combination with other foods

would help any condition - I prefer cooked foods too, but a month on raw

foods or juices would be something I would try for its therapeutic value.

 

Jane

 

" Patti Garland " <patti

I'd be curious to see if having this kind of

> balance would have alleviated some of the anxiety these folks went

> through.

[Guest guest]

Dear DT,

 

Your wife is presumed to have gestational diabetes (GD). This is the

conclusion of your allopathic doctor. The disease is named by

statistical model.

 

Consider now this: When a car is negotiating a grade or accelerating

after starting it requires richer fuel mixture. When we are working

more per day, we too need more energy, more food too, or else

tea/coffee to accelerate our metabolism and provide more heat energy.

 

In the same manner, when a pregnant mom is supporting additional life

within her, would she not need additional energy and blood sugar

along with additional insulin and cellular oxygen to create this

energy? Has statistical model studied only prgenant

ladies separately to decide whether blood sugar greather than 130 is

not good. Blood sugar going up may cause some discomfort, may cause

more growth of baby and ultimately c-section. This is the fear you

may have in mind.

 

Author is giving you some more material to think over, which

conventioal medicine never worried about. For this material, author is indebted

to some

of his friends who are radicals, like alternative rather than what

they are practicing. Read on:

 

These is some amazing research out there about how the primal period

is when our GENES are activated to respond to a particular

enviornment -- the one we were gestated in. THe best in the primal

research, prenatal progrmamming --- Michel Odent,MD

http://www.wombecology.com/obesity.html and his book, " Primal

Health " and works by Peter Nathaneilsz, PhD.(vet) MD (OB) " Life

Before Birth and a Time to Be Born: The Challenges of Fetal

Development " , and " Life in the Womb: The Origin of Health and

Disease " . " Prental Prescription " was written to condense the

information for mothers. The other two are richer reads of detailed

(stil easy though) science. Nathanielsz talks about the adrenal

stress axis that is established in utero -- relates prenatal period

to adult diabetes, stroke, and cardiac issues. author highly

recommends

them both. Nathanielsz looks at the war induced Dutch famine in

World War II -- researchers looked at the cause of death of the male

adults based on when during the short famine their mother's were

starved during their prenatal development.

 

If you cant get books, read just the link provided and decide if by

starving wife, are you likely to make your child a diabetic in later

life. MOther is the symbol of sacrifice. Would gestational diabetes

(!) for few more weeks not better than permanent diabetes for the

baby?

 

Author has given detailed guidelines for diet etc here:

http://health.ayurveda/message/3499

 

Similarly

http://health.ayurveda/message/3499

 

here the effect of mothes mental stress getting passed on to fetus is

also discussed. An excerpt:

 

It is now universally proven that the baby is not just a mindless

mass of flesh, but a highly responsive and evolving human being,

capable of receiving, understanding and responding to external

stimuli. It, therefore, follows that the it has a right to

receive positive and enriching feedback or garbha sanskar.

In order to transmit 'good values' is to establish communication with

the baby in the womb. Thoughts and feelings of the parents affect the

baby. Even before the thought is expressed, it remains in an

unexpressed form in the mind. At that time, its wavelength is the

shortest and its energy is at the maximum level. Intentional,

directed, selfless, unspoken thoughts lead to maximum sanskar on the

fetus.

 

Now you can also imagine what may be happening to fetus, when mom is

under the stress, starvation. Indian philosophy believes that the

baby in the womb expresses its desires through mother. If it is

getting starved mother would automatically feel more hunger. May be

this is how extra support for baby is ensured by supreme power. But

out statistical model treats it as gestational diabetes. and tries to

limit the diet, so that another diebetic is also born. It is a

interesting conclusion of a study that those who become addicted to

cigarette they did not adequate mothers milk (about 2 years) during

childhood!

 

Indian grandma gets more worried if prgnant lady starts feeling less hunger or

does not eat adequately.

 

ayurveda , " desert_thought "

<desert_thought wrote:

she was given detailed advice on

> what to eat, how much to eat and also a glucometer kit to test her

blood

> sugar. The diet given to her is very strict

> and the serving serving size is so small that one would feel hungry

> after an hour. Infact they did have a diet plan for Indians and

here is

> the diet recommendation.