regarding some confusing paramters in ayurveda

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/31/03 2:53:13 AM, wvaibhav writes:

 

 

1) on what basis this anjali praman is decided means if my weight is

60 kg then how much shukra should be in my body ? like wise for each

dhatu

 

Dear Vaibhav,

 

As you know, Ayurveda classifies serum, blood, flesh, fat, bone, marrow and semen as the major components of the body. The Ayurvedic concept of these ingredients is broad. Flesh, for example, includes the nerves, skin, tendons, membranes and glands.

 

In general, the normal weight body, which would be an Indian body living 2,000 years ago (probably about 56 kilos) contains 10 handfuls of water, 9 handfuls of serum, 8 handfuls of blood, 5 handfuls of fat, one handful of marrow and a half handful of semen. Besides these ingredients, the body also has quantities of by-products, such as bile and Oja (vital water), all of which should be in proportion. For example, there are about 5 handfuls of bile in the body, a half handful of Oja in the body, and 8 drops of Oja in the heart. Based upon this you can calculate normal amounts for anyone.

 

Best regards,

 

Alan

 

Alan Keith Tillotson, PhD AHG

Naixin Hu Tillotson, OMD LAc

Chrysalis Natural Medicine Clinic

1008 Milltown Rd., Wilm., DE 19808 USA

(302) 994-0565 office

(302) 995-0653 fax

Email: AlanT3

Web: www.OneEarthHerbs.com

[Guest guest]

According to ayurveda body has seven dhatu, rasa, rakta, mansa, meda,

asthi, majja and shukra. Every dhatu has standard anjali pramana. It

varies from 8 anjali to 1/2 anjali. My question

 

1) on what basis this anjali praman is decided means if my weight is

60 kg then how much shukra should be in my body ? like wise for each

dhatu

 

2) How shukra is defined in females. Sutra is garbhotpadakashacha

karmani. To assist in reproduction. in males it is semen then what is

in the female ?

 

 

please help

 

vaibhav

[Guest guest]

2) this is interesting. See the recent publication by R P Das, _The

Origin of the Life of a Human Being_ (Motilal Banarsidass: Delhi, 2003)

which examines this topic in detail. The female homologue to sukra is

sonita, i.e., menstrual blood. But there are parallels too with breast

milk. Ayurveda teaches that there is a tube in men connecting their

nipples with the scrotum, which also suggests a connection between milk

and semen.

 

Best,

DW

 

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003, Vaibhav EKnathrao Waghmare wrote:

 

> According to ayurveda body has seven dhatu, rasa, rakta, mansa, meda,

> asthi, majja and shukra. Every dhatu has standard anjali pramana. It

> varies from 8 anjali to 1/2 anjali. My question

>

> 1) on what basis this anjali praman is decided means if my weight is

> 60 kg then how much shukra should be in my body ? like wise for each

> dhatu

>

> 2) How shukra is defined in females. Sutra is garbhotpadakashacha

> karmani. To assist in reproduction. in males it is semen then what is

> in the female ?

>

>

> please help

>

> vaibhav

>

>

>

> --

> IASTAM: The International Association for the Study of Traditional

> Asian Medicine

> website: http://www.iastam.org

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree to the preassumed concept and very well logically accepted.

My study is based on the health and shukra. In charaka, female shukra

is not perfectly defined. But conclusion is that in females this

shukra is divided into the three components. One ovum, menstrual

fluid, and milk. In males it is clear that it is semen.

 

So if anjali pramana in males for shukra is prasut i.e 1/2 anjali.

But factually according to our survey a average male takes out semen

which is equivalent to half of his weight i.e. 15-30 ml. So how to

corelate these things ?

 

vaibhav

 

iastam , alant3@a... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 12/31/03 2:53:13 AM, wvaibhav@h... writes:

>

>

> > 1) on what basis this anjali praman is decided means if my weight

is

> > 60 kg then how much shukra should be in my body ? like wise for

each

> > dhatu

> >

> Dear Vaibhav,

>

> As you know, Ayurveda classifies serum, blood, flesh, fat, bone,

marrow and

> semen as the major components of the body. The Ayurvedic concept

of these

> ingredients is broad. Flesh, for example, includes the nerves,

skin, tendons,

> membranes and glands.

>

> In general, the normal weight body, which would be an Indian body

living

> 2,000 years ago (probably about 56 kilos) contains 10 handfuls of

water, 9

> handfuls of serum, 8 handfuls of blood, 5 handfuls of fat, one

handful of marrow and

> a half handful of semen. Besides these ingredients, the body also

has

> quantities of by-products, such as bile and Oja (vital water), all

of which should

> be in proportion. For example, there are about 5 handfuls of bile

in the

> body, a half handful of Oja in the body, and 8 drops of Oja in the

heart. Based

> upon this you can calculate normal amounts for anyone.

>

> Best regards,

>

> Alan

>

> Alan Keith Tillotson, PhD AHG

> Naixin Hu Tillotson, OMD LAc

> Chrysalis Natural Medicine Clinic

> 1008 Milltown Rd., Wilm., DE 19808 USA

> (302) 994-0565 office

> (302) 995-0653 fax

> Email: AlanT3@a...

> Web: www.OneEarthHerbs.com

[Guest guest]

Raja is most important parameter in the development of fetus in the

womb. What should be the amount which is to be secreted in the

menstrual period of a female. Why the duration for the secretion is

three -seven days, why 28 days cycle ? what is the scientific

reason ? and lot more questions.

 

vaibhav

[Guest guest]

There is no such concept as " ovum " in ayurveda. This is a modern overlay,

I would even say corruption, of classical ayurvedic concepts. It is

important to be true as possible to the real history of ayurveda, and to

be sensitive to issues of translation, and to avoid reading contemporary

medical concepts (which are themselves subject to change) into the

classical Sanskrit texts.

 

Best,

Dominik

 

On Thu, 1 Jan 2004, Vaibhav EKnathrao Waghmare wrote:

 

> I agree to the preassumed concept and very well logically accepted.

> My study is based on the health and shukra. In charaka, female shukra

> is not perfectly defined. But conclusion is that in females this

> shukra is divided into the three components. One ovum, menstrual

> fluid, and milk. In males it is clear that it is semen.

[Guest guest]

Shukra vahe dwe tayormulam stanow vrushanow cha. What is represents

and then what is called as a artava ? whose symptoms are given. I am

trying to translate but I am trying to interpret with respect to

their exact meaning. The definition of shukra is given as a

garbhotpadakascha karmani. So, in natural course of life, ovum

(Artava), menstrual fluid and stanya helps in the reproduction. So

these three should constitute the female shukra. Not only the

menstrual fluid.

 

vaibhav

iastam , Dominik Wujastyk <ucgadkw@u...> wrote:

> There is no such concept as " ovum " in ayurveda. This is a modern

overlay,

> I would even say corruption, of classical ayurvedic concepts. It is

> important to be true as possible to the real history of ayurveda,

and to

> be sensitive to issues of translation, and to avoid reading

contemporary

> medical concepts (which are themselves subject to change) into the

> classical Sanskrit texts.

>

> Best,

> Dominik

>

> On Thu, 1 Jan 2004, Vaibhav EKnathrao Waghmare wrote:

>

> > I agree to the preassumed concept and very well logically

accepted.

> > My study is based on the health and shukra. In charaka, female

shukra

> > is not perfectly defined. But conclusion is that in females this

> > shukra is divided into the three components. One ovum, menstrual

> > fluid, and milk. In males it is clear that it is semen.

[Guest guest]

Sanskrit " aartava " is a taddhita adjective meaning " relating to the

season " (from Skt. " .rtu " , " season " ), and it means the blood that flows in

a woman's season or period, her menstrual blood. The female ova and their

related anatomy and function had not yet been discovered at the time the

Sanskrit medical classics were composed.

 

Dominik Wujastyk

[Guest guest]

sir, If artava stands for the ovum and related anatomy with menstrual

blood then what is meant by raja ?

 

vaibhav

iastam , Dominik Wujastyk <ucgadkw@u...> wrote:

> Sanskrit " aartava " is a taddhita adjective meaning " relating to the

> season " (from Skt. " .rtu " , " season " ), and it means the blood that

flows in

> a woman's season or period, her menstrual blood. The female ova

and their

> related anatomy and function had not yet been discovered at the

time the

> Sanskrit medical classics were composed.

>

> Dominik Wujastyk

[Guest guest]

On Sat, 3 Jan 2004, Vaibhav EKnathrao Waghmare wrote:

 

> sir, If artava stands for the ovum and related anatomy with menstrual

> blood then what is meant by raja ?

 

 

There is no concept of ovum in classical Ayurveda. There's no word for it

in Sanskrit. It isn't there as an idea. " Aartava " means menstrual blood,

not ovum.

 

When you say " raja " I assume you mean " rajas " . This is a neuter noun and

in this context it means the same as " aartava " , i.e, menstrual blood. The

words are synonyms.

 

DW

[Guest guest]

iastam , Dominik Wujastyk <ucgadkw@u...> wrote:

I think I will have to understand according to your way of

understanding. my quesion is what is meant by shukra. How it is

described in the " male and female " .

 

The definition of shukra according to the ayurveda is " garbhopadacha

karmani " . I cannot translate this exactly in the english properly.

 

vaibhav

> On Sat, 3 Jan 2004, Vaibhav EKnathrao Waghmare wrote:

>

> > sir, If artava stands for the ovum and related anatomy with

menstrual

> > blood then what is meant by raja ?

>

>

> There is no concept of ovum in classical Ayurveda. There's no word

for it

> in Sanskrit. It isn't there as an idea. " Aartava " means menstrual

blood,

> not ovum.

>

> When you say " raja " I assume you mean " rajas " . This is a neuter

noun and

> in this context it means the same as " aartava " , i.e, menstrual

blood. The

> words are synonyms.

>

> DW

[Guest guest]

Dear sir,

 

Can we have the relationsship of the dhatu saratva with the anjali pramana.

Means, how the variation in the dhatu saratva affects the anjali pramana of

various dhatu ?

 

Sincerely yours

 

Dr. Vaibhav

 

>alant3

>iastam

>wvaibhav, iastam

>Re: regarding some confusing paramters in ayurveda

>Wed, 31 Dec 2003 07:43:12 EST

>

>

>In a message dated 12/31/03 2:53:13 AM, wvaibhav writes:

>

>

> > 1) on what basis this anjali praman is decided means if my weight is

> > 60 kg then how much shukra should be in my body ? like wise for each

> > dhatu

> >

>Dear Vaibhav,

>

>As you know, Ayurveda classifies serum, blood, flesh, fat, bone, marrow and

>semen as the major components of the body. The Ayurvedic concept of these

>ingredients is broad. Flesh, for example, includes the nerves, skin,

>tendons,

>membranes and glands.

>

>In general, the normal weight body, which would be an Indian body living

>2,000 years ago (probably about 56 kilos) contains 10 handfuls of water, 9

>handfuls of serum, 8 handfuls of blood, 5 handfuls of fat, one handful of

>marrow and

>a half handful of semen. Besides these ingredients, the body also has

>quantities of by-products, such as bile and Oja (vital water), all of which

>should

>be in proportion. For example, there are about 5 handfuls of bile in the

>body, a half handful of Oja in the body, and 8 drops of Oja in the heart.

>Based

>upon this you can calculate normal amounts for anyone.

>

>Best regards,

>

>Alan

>

>Alan Keith Tillotson, PhD AHG

>Naixin Hu Tillotson, OMD LAc

>Chrysalis Natural Medicine Clinic

>1008 Milltown Rd., Wilm., DE 19808 USA

>(302) 994-0565 office

>(302) 995-0653 fax

>Email: AlanT3

>Web: www.OneEarthHerbs.com

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Sir, & Dear Vaibhav,

Let me say that for ovum ,we have a word BEEJA in Ayurvedic Texts !

Rajas is only that part of Rasa Rakta which can be corelated with

menstrual flow of bood & should not be confused with other Rakta

(Blood)

Now concept of SHUKRA is still unique in Ayurved, one may not justice

to it by just saying Shukra means sperms in male & ??in female then?

Therefore here we should that reference of Shukra as mentioned by

texts again, i.e. Garbhopadacha Dhatunam Shukrantanam Param

Smutam.....,i.e. those elements which are necessary for the act of

reproduction in general,thus Shukra is to be considered as the most

important (Param), but also required for other important functions

like Dehasthiti Nibandhanam ( for mainting health / immune levels ?of

the body )

If we pay attention to Etymological derivation of the Sanskrit tem

Shukra, then you may wonder about the correctnomenclature chosen by

ancient masters of Ayurveda ,Shukra is a term derived from originally

from a sanskrit root (Dhatu) - Shuch ran - means that which runs

away, go away from the body , & if you cross check sperms in man &

rajas in female both go away from body , so one may accept shukra &

raja in that context as well.

But also sages have elaborated about presence of shukra that one may

not have Pratyaksha ( direct evidence) of shukra in female, they say

if you add sugar to milk & dissolve it you may not see the presence

of it in the milk but same can be felt only after you consume , you

taste the milk since it will be more sweet !

I hope I might have tried to solve your confusion to a little bit

extent ! Pl. forgive me if I am wrong & correct me as well !!

May I know about both of yours in little more details.To know a

little more about me please visit my website www.ayurvision.com & see

a link our consultant to see my C.V.Pl. mail me on

ayurinstitute or on drasphadke

Thanking you,

With regards,

Prof. Dr. Aashish Phadke, Mumbai,India,Ayurinstitute-Institute of Ayurveda & Panchakarma

Therapy,Navi Mumbai,India

iastam , " Vaibhav EKnathrao Waghmare "

<wvaibhav@h...> wrote:

> iastam , Dominik Wujastyk <ucgadkw@u...>

wrote:

> I think I will have to understand according to your way of

> understanding. my quesion is what is meant by shukra. How it is

> described in the " male and female " .

>

> The definition of shukra according to the ayurveda

is " garbhopadacha

> karmani " . I cannot translate this exactly in the english properly.

>

> vaibhav

> > On Sat, 3 Jan 2004, Vaibhav EKnathrao Waghmare wrote:

> >

> > > sir, If artava stands for the ovum and related anatomy with

> menstrual

> > > blood then what is meant by raja ?

> >

> >

> > There is no concept of ovum in classical Ayurveda. There's no

word

> for it

> > in Sanskrit. It isn't there as an idea. " Aartava " means

menstrual

> blood,

> > not ovum.

> >

> > When you say " raja " I assume you mean " rajas " . This is a neuter

> noun and

> > in this context it means the same as " aartava " , i.e, menstrual

> blood. The

> > words are synonyms.

> >

> > DW

[Guest guest]

Dear Dr. Vaibhav,

Your Artava point is well said. In fact in my last mail there is a

mistake in giving reference. I have mentioned Garbhotpadacha

dhatunam ....in fact that was wrongly mentioned , its in a context of

Oja , & shloka starts with Ojastu tejo dhatunam Shukrantanam param

smrutam, .....rest you know. That entire next discussion is for

Ojas.But I have come across certain scholars saying on the basis of

tika ( commentry) that Shukra can be understood with this aspect as

well.The Etymological derivation which I have told is again as per

the Nirukta.

But any way , I am very happy to see that there are someone having

such kootaprashna in Ayurveda ! Thanks for stimulating to think on it.

With warm regards,

Prof. Dr. Aashish Phadke, Indiaiastam , Dominik

Wujastyk <ucgadkw@u...> wrote:

>

> On Sat, 3 Jan 2004, Vaibhav EKnathrao Waghmare wrote:

>

> > sir, If artava stands for the ovum and related anatomy with

menstrual

> > blood then what is meant by raja ?

>

>

> There is no concept of ovum in classical Ayurveda. There's no word

for it

> in Sanskrit. It isn't there as an idea. " Aartava " means menstrual

blood,

> not ovum.

>

> When you say " raja " I assume you mean " rajas " . This is a neuter

noun and

> in this context it means the same as " aartava " , i.e, menstrual

blood. The

> words are synonyms.

>

> DW