Gout

[Guest guest]

> I have suffered from Gout for 30 years.

 

Eat cherries to alleviate the symptoms of gout.

 

Rob

[Guest guest]

gohar333 wrote:

 

> I am also a gout patient.

> Corn hair (Golden) boiled in saltish water and drinking is the best

> cure to lower the Uric Acid in the blood.

>

 

Howdy fellow (non) traveler.

I'll have to try that. I usually use celery seed when I get a case of it. I have

to admit that it does a bang up job, going from unable to motivate at all

(triple ouch),

to being up and around in a couple hours, and completely gone (unless

I let it get to far advanced, and then it is tender for a while from tissue?

damage,

but not gouty) over night.

--

Goat (Generalist of all Trades)!

 

Jeremiah 50:8 " Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and go forth out of the land of

the Chaldeans, and be as the

male goats before the flocks. "

 

 

" When the representative body have lost the confidence of their constituents,

when they have notoriously made

sale of their most valuable rights, when they have assumed to themselves powers

which the people never put into

their hands, then, indeed, their continuing in office becomes dangerous to the

State, and calls for an

exercise of the power of dissolution. " --Thomas Jefferson: Rights of British

America, 1774.

[Guest guest]

I use celery seed when I get a case in my big toe.

 

DocJohnJ wrote:

 

> New member - sounds like a great group!

>

> Am looking for any herbal remedies for gout. Have seen many claimed

> to help - But - is there any listing in order of best to worst?

>

> Currently taking cherry extract capsules and folic acid and devil's

> claw and MSM. Would like to know which is most effective to reduce

> uric acid levels - or is there a better one? Thanks, John

>

 

--

 

 

Goat (Generalist of all Trades)!

 

Jeremiah 50:8 " Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and go forth out of the land of

the Chaldeans, and be as the

male goats before the flocks. "

 

 

" An honest man can feel no pleasure in the exercise of power over his fellow

citizens... Power is not alluring

to pure minds and is not with them the primary principle of contest. " --Thomas

Jefferson to John Melish, 1813.

 

Send an email to listserver and in the subject line enter:

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[Guest guest]

We used to eat alot of fish and gout was a big problem for me. Found that I did very well with a banana and some Evening Primrose Oil capsules. Cut the fish back, added more veg and bananas and the gout dropped from semi weekly to none in 3 years.

N

 

 

 

 

Nackla1

 

Festiveforaging

[Guest guest]

What have you done about your diet??? what has helped with my husbands gout tremendously is

 

NO beer (this almost killed him to quit)

NO dark alcohol

NO red wine

Only clear alcohol (so vodka and everclear in tinctures is OK)

NO dark meat from poultry (white meat is OK)

NO organ meats of anykind

NO poultry skin

 

If you don't eat or drink anything on the NO list and follow Doc's recommendations as well as a friend uses a tea once a day by steeping 1 to 1 1/2 tsp of thyme in hot water. These suggestions sure helped my husband who has not had an attack in over 3 years.

 

Patricia

[Guest guest]

Kaye,

According to the file in Member Contributions, in the archives, here is a formula for gout.The Gout Formula:

1/4 oz skullcap

1/4 oz valerian root

1/2 oz yarrow flowers

1/2 oz nettles

Fix in non-aluminum pan.

2 tsp. per 8 oz. water, steep 5 minutes. Take 4x per day. Use NO SWEETENER whatsoever.

No meats, sweets, legumes or alcoholic beverages. Drink lots of water and juice.

Also -- charcoal 1 tsp. 4x per day until attack is over.

KayesClowns wrote:

Does anyone have any suggestions or recommendations on helping with gout?

Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more

[Guest guest]

You did not give much information about your symptoms, if you have seen a doctor about this or how long you have been dealing with gout. so here is an explanation of why you might have gout. At the bottom is a list of herbs you can use to help with this problem. Just remember that if you are on the medication colchicine, which is prescribed for gout, there are many of these herbs that you should not mix with it. Whatever you decide to do, research first and goodluck.

 

GOUT:

gout is formed when monosodium urate crystals deposit due to an overload of uric acid. This excess can be caused by an increase in production by the body, by under-elimination of uric acid by the kidneys or by increased intake of foods containing purines which are metabolized to uric acid in the body. In severe, long-standing disease, MSU crystals may be deposited in larger central joints and in the parenchyma of organs such as the kidney.

It is often called the "disease for the kings" because you can get it from eating lots of goumet, pastries or candy.

If you know you have gout due to you diet alone, please consider this: You may want a 'cure' to help right away, so that you can go back to your old habits without discomfort, but remember this is what causes diesease in the first place.

 

Treatments:

Devil's Claw (Harpagophytum procumbens)Devil's claw has been used in folk medicine for the treatment of a variety of diseases, including gout and rheumatoid arthritis. Clinical research appears to indicate devil's claw may be of benefit in the treatment of gout; in addition to relieving joint pain, devil's claw also reduces serum cholesterol and uric acid levels.Dosage: 750 mg 3 times daily of a preparation standardized to contain 3% iridoid glycosides. 

Autumn crocus (Colchicum autumnale) is the herb from which the drug colchicine was originally isolated and is used as a conventional treatment for gout. The drug colchicine is much more commonly used than are herbal extracts of Autumn crocus. Both the herb and the drug have significant toxicity and for this reason should only be used under the guidance of a physician.

Gravelroot (Eupatorium pu1pureum) stimulate elimination of uric acid.Dosage:  Drink an infusion of 2 tsp gravelroot in a cup of water, three times a day.Warning: Do not take herbal teas if colchicine has been prescribed.

Celery (Apium graveolens) seed: stimulates elimination of uric acid. Dosage: Drink an infusion of 2 tsp celery seed in a cup of water, three times a day.Warning: Do not take herbal teas if colchicine has been prescribed. 

Cherries Consuming half a pound (225 g) of fresh or canned cherries per day has been shown to be very effective in lowering uric acid levels and preventing attacks of gout. Cherries, hawthorn berries, blueberries and other dark red-blue berries are rich sources of anthocyanidins and proanthocyanidins. These compounds are flavonoid molecules that give these fruits their deep red-blue color. They are very effective in preventing collagen destruction.

Bilberry contains compounds called anthocyanidins that have proven valuable against gout. These substances reduce uric-acid levels and inhibit tissue destruction. Choose a product containing 25 percent anthocyanidins and take 80 milligrams three times daily.

Hawthorn offers some of the same properties as bilberry. Choose a standardized extract containing 1.8 vitexin-2 rhamnosides and take 100 to 200 milligrams two or three times a day.

Juniper berry is a diuretic herb that helps reduce uric acid. Take 350 to 500 milligrams in capsule form or 1 cup of tea twice daily.

Nettle root increases the excretion of uric acid from the kidneys. Take 250 milligrams three times a day.

Pine-bark and grape-seed extracts act to reduce inflammation, thus easing pain. Take 50 to 100 milligrams of either two to three times daily.

Turmeric has powerful anti-inflammatory action. It is used in both Chinese and Ayurvedic medicine against gout, arthritis, and other inflammatory conditions. Take 250 to 500 milligrams three times a day.

[Guest guest]

Hi Pam,

 

 

I seam to remember reading an article by Flaws where he states something

like the following:

 

There are two disease diagnoses in china er bing, one western and one

Chinese.

 

I become more interested in how (transparent to the extent it is possible)

usage of terminology and what it expresses can make one handle information

constructively.

 

Bob Damone mentions at:

http://www.acupuncturetoday.com/archives2002/may/05carter.html

 

" Concurrently, this seven-course series challenges students to responsibly

" re-frame " the TCM-defined conditions into their constituent biomedical

diseases, while maintaining the integrity of each medical paradigm. It is

hoped that our students will be better prepared to practice professional TCM

in biomedical settings and also to intelligently converse with patients and

their doctors in biomedical terms. It seems that this change has been

largely successful, and continuous evaluation and refinement is occurring. "

 

Thus this " re-framing " from CM to WM and then it appears to " re-frame " back

to CM is an interesting phenomena.

 

Hence

 

Er Bing Two disease (diagnoses)

WM gout CM ?

 

Just having these two information what and how would one converse the " two "

and interrelate the " two " what effect on actual decision making and CM

pattern identification treatment determination might it have?

 

I am asking because contemplating how to usage language and information and

concepts expressed from various epistemological knowing. i.e. WM and CM...

 

 

Of course local loci to some extent will be useful I imagine the foot

greater yin channel will be affected one wonders if a specific and or

special needle method might be " more " called for?

 

How you consider ear acupuncture?

 

Diet will probably be of out most important (rice soup...congee think the

word is)

 

baving in Epsom salt might be very useful?

 

 

Sorry can not be of more help and hope you and others elaborate on the

matter...

 

 

Marco

 

 

Pam:

 

>

> Hi, Can anyone give me any suggestions on the treatment of Gout using both

> acupuncture and herbs. sorry i don't have any more information about the

> patient at the moment, but your help would be most appreciated. Pam

>

[Guest guest]

I have treated myself for an acute flare up of what I took to be gout.

 

The inflamation was on the first joint of the big toe. Verry hot

verry painful.

 

Treatment - Bleed Sp3 to release the xie qi. Not as bad as you might

expect and the relief was almost instant.

For a follow up I put myself on the most bland post christmas diet -

veg and rice only (no frying or baking) for 6 weeks. Also increased

fluid (water) intake and salt intake.

I saw the diet as taking the load off the spleen while strengthening

kidney.

 

This is only one experience but I hope it helps

 

Russ

[Guest guest]

Here is some info I have found:

--\

----------

Acupuncture

 

Because acupuncture can be administered to areas other than the swollen joint,

this procedure may be better tolerated than direct treatments, such as massage,

by patients in the initial stages of gout.

 

Acupuncture Points for Gout

 

UB 35, UB 28, CV 4, ST 36, points of tenderness in affected regions. 

 

For swelling around big toe and ankle: 

LiV 4, K 2, LiV 2, L 3, K 7.

 

Also add: 

ST 36, L V 4, UB 28.

 

--

Treatment of Gout with Acupuncture

Pang Jun, Huang Bo-ling, Li Yu-shun, Zhou Yu-yan, Han Zhi-yong, Faye Richardson

------

 

Summary

 

Gout is a disorder of purine metabolism in which a high serum uric acid is found

and there is deposit of urate crystals within joints causing exquisite pain and

tenderness. The pharmacological treatment relies upon non- steroidal

anti-inflammatory drugs in the acute stage, and prophylactic drugs in the

chronic state to control the level of circulating uric acid.

 

In traditional Chinese medicine an over-rich diet is thought to cause a build-up

of damp and heat internally that causes phlegm to stagnate. There is also

disturbance of the Spleen and Kidney. Treatment thus involves Spleen and Stomach

acupuncture points (SP.3 and 6, and ST.36 and 40) to control heat and damp and

reduce phlegm. Other local points are used according to the joint involved.

 

A case history is discussed illustrating the treatment and a series of 10

patients is reported in which there is a 70% success in reducing the chronic

level of serum uric acid and the frequency of acute attacks.

[Guest guest]

i've had good results with San Miao San (Cangzhu, Huangbai, Niuxi) as

a base formula with variations according to pattern (you might add

herbs for fire toxin, blood-moving, Wind-damp, etc). You could also

use the formula as a foot soak. For acupuncture i usually use IP

cords (black clip on SP3 or SP4) or magnets according to the same

principle if needles are too noxious.

 

Flaws' modern Western book has a whole differential dx section on

gout.

 

robert hayden

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " Pam D'Alberto "

<pdalberto@h...> wrote:

>

> Hi, Can anyone give me any suggestions on the treatment of Gout

using both

> acupuncture and herbs. sorry i don't have any more information

about the

> patient at the moment, but your help would be most appreciated. Pam

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Pam & Marco & All,

 

Marco wrote:

> Of course local loci to some extent will be useful I imagine the

> foot greater yin channel will be affected one wonders if a specific

> and or special needle method might be " more " called for?

 

IMO, gout relates more to LV than to SP. Taiyin = LU-SP but

Jueyin = PC-LV.

 

I have treated only 2-3 cases of classical big-toe pain in gout. All

had pronounced Wood (LV) temperament and signs, including

green eyes, nail problems, recurrent headaches and red-eyes

(conjunctivitis with sensation of grit in the eyes), explosive

temperament/anger, desire to control everything.

 

One also was a heavy drinker of alcohol, which usually

exaggerated the signs.

 

One was highly allergic to certain foods (esp white wine, crab,

lobster) and had very rapid skin reaction (bumps from 5-30mm size

within 30-60 minutes of skin-contact with metal ornaments or

bra/suspender clips. She could not wear any metallic objects

except highest quality silver or gold.

 

As main AP points, I used LV03 and GB34, adding other points, as

needed, for concomitant symptoms. Outcome after 1-3 sessions

was excellent, with no dietary change except advice to the heavy

drinker to cut down alcohol use, and advice to all to drink more

water every day.

 

> How do you consider ear acupuncture?

 

I have not used Ear Points in gout, but I suspect that LV, GB and

KI points might help. But as my experiences with Channel Points

was good, I would stay with that approach.

 

> Diet will probably be of out most important (rice soup...congee

> think the word is). Bathing in Epsom salt might be very useful?

> Sorry can not be of more help and hope you and others elaborate on

> the matter... Marco

Best regards,

 

Email: <

 

WORK : Teagasc Research Management, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland

Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

[Guest guest]

-

Robert, where do you put the other clip? Also, when treating in non

attack times do you ever use Shan Zha as protein metabloism seems to

play a part in this. Admittedly not traditional dx. Steve Snyder

 

-- In Chinese Medicine , " kampo36 "

<kampo36> wrote:

> i've had good results with San Miao San (Cangzhu, Huangbai, Niuxi)

as

> a base formula with variations according to pattern (you might add

> herbs for fire toxin, blood-moving, Wind-damp, etc). You could

also

> use the formula as a foot soak. For acupuncture i usually use IP

> cords (black clip on SP3 or SP4) or magnets according to the same

> principle if needles are too noxious.

>

> Flaws' modern Western book has a whole differential dx section on

> gout.

>

> robert hayden

>

>

> Chinese Medicine , " Pam

D'Alberto "

> <pdalberto@h...> wrote:

> >

> > Hi, Can anyone give me any suggestions on the treatment of Gout

> using both

> > acupuncture and herbs. sorry i don't have any more information

> about the

> > patient at the moment, but your help would be most appreciated.

Pam

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , " snydez99 "

<snydez99> wrote:

> -

> Robert, where do you put the other clip? Also, when treating in non

> attack times do you ever use Shan Zha as protein metabloism seems

to

> play a part in this. Admittedly not traditional dx. Steve Snyder

>

> >>>>>>>>>>

 

re IP: it depends, maybe SP4->P6, though if there is some other point

that seems to need the red clip, it'll go there.

 

re Shanzha: never thought about it, but it sounds like a good idea.

usually i just try to manage the qi depression and damp, but

certainly food stagnation could be argued as an etiology in

traditional terms.

 

robert hayden

[Guest guest]

--- " snydez99 " wrote: Also, when treating in non attack times do you

ever use Shan Zha as protein metabloism seems to play a part in

this. Admittedly not traditional dx.

>

" kampo36 " wrote:

> > i've had good results with San Miao San (Cangzhu, Huangbai,

Niuxi) as a base formula with variations according to pattern (you

might add herbs for fire toxin, blood-moving, Wind-damp, etc). >>>

 

 

 

You can also try Tong Yong Tong Feng Wan (Cinnamon and Angelica

Formula), found in the QualiHerb catalog. I've used this

successfully.

 

 

Jim Ramholz

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/27/03 12:08:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, Chinese Medicine writes:

A cocktail of potentially harmful man-made chemicals has been found in the blood of every person tested in a new UK study.

Hi Pam,

 

I see you have gotten lots of good advice. One more thing is the herb Buchu which is specific for gout. Also it is suggested to increase potassium foods such as fresh cherries, bananas, strawberries, celery, broccoli, greens and avoid high purine foods such as red meat, rich gravies, broth's or bouillon, mushrooms, asparagus, peas, cooked spinach, rhubarb, sardines, anchovies, crab. Also avoid high fructose, caffeine, fried foods and saturated fats. They should eat mostly fresh whole foods. Black cherry juice is also recommended to flush and neutralize uric acid.

 

I agree with all the acupuncture suggested by the others so won't repeat it here.

 

Bobbi

[Guest guest]

Eletroacupuncture on SP3 and Liv 3 often bring instant relief on the

inflammation of the big toe; it must be supported by traditional

treatment such as GB34, St 40, etc. for clearing damp and heat; a diet

would be helpful, as well as a variety of heat and damp clearing

formula with modifications based on classic such as Liu Jun Zu tang, Er

Chan Tang, Yi Yi Ren Tang to name but a few, the choice is yours.

In all cases,

1) diagnostic,

2) Treatment strategy

3)acupuncture for pain relief

4) Herbal treatment for eliminating pathogenic factor and supporting

the constitution.

Regards,

 

 

PJ

On Thursday, November 27, 2003, at 12:13 pm, swacres_group wrote:

 

> I have treated myself for an acute flare up of what I took to be gout.

>

> The inflamation was on the first joint of the big toe. Verry hot

> verry painful.

>

> Treatment - Bleed Sp3 to release the xie qi. Not as bad as you might

> expect and the relief was almost instant.

> For a follow up I put myself on the most bland post christmas diet -

> veg and rice only (no frying or baking) for 6 weeks. Also increased

> fluid (water) intake and salt intake.

> I saw the diet as taking the load off the spleen while strengthening

> kidney.

>

> This is only one experience but I hope it helps

>

> Russ

>

>

<image.tiff>

>

>

> Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear,

> religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear.

>

> To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or

> none, visit the groups’ homepage:

> Chinese Medicine/ click

> ‘edit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly.

>

> To send an email to

> <Chinese Medicine- > from the

> email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but

> will still recieve messages for a few days.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Pam,

 

Some thoughts on diet and natural supplements:

 

Alcohol must be eliminated because it accelerates

purine breakdown, thus increasing uric acid

production. At the same time, alcohol increases

lactate production, which impairs kidney function,

thus reducing uric acid excretion. For many people

just eliminating alcohol will reduce uric acid

levels and prevent gout.

 

Eliminate foods that contain high levels of purine such as organ

meats, meats, shellfish, yeast (brewer's and baker's),

herring, sardines, mackerel, and anchovies.

Also, foods with moderate levels of purine such as dried

legumes, fish, poultry, spinach, asparagus, and mushrooms

should be consumed in moderation.

 

Try to encurage patient to follow a high-fiber, low-fat

diet rich in whole, unprocessed, preferably organic

foods, especially plant foods (fruits, vegetables, whole

grains, nuts, especially walnuts, and seeds).

 

Minimize consumption of refined carbohydrates,

simple sugars, and saturated fats as they increase

uric acid production, and saturated fats decrease

the excretion of uric acid.

 

Increase consumption of EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid),

an omega-3 oil, as it will limit the production of inflammatory

messengers (leukotrienes) that are responsible for much of the

inflammation and the resulting tissue damage found in gout.

 

Vitamin E is helpful in the treatment of gout because of its

anti-inflammatory effects, both as an antioxidant as well as through

its slight inhibition of leukotriene production.

Bromelain, an enzyme complex from pineapple, has shown significant

anti-inflammatory effects in clinical human studies with no side

effects.

 

The flavonoid quercetin inhibits both uric acid production

and the manufacture of inflammatory compounds.

Quercetin should be taken with bromelain as it may

help enhance quercetin's absorption between meals.

 

Anthocyanidins and proanthocyanidins, which are

flavonoid compounds found in highest amounts in

cherries, hawthorn berries, blueberries, and extracts

of bilberry (Vaccinium myrtillus), grape seed (Vitis

vinifera) and pine bark (Pinus maritima), have been

shown to be very effective in lowering uric acid levels

and preventing attacks of gout through several beneficial

actions, including prevention of collagen destruction, antioxidant

activity, and inhibition of leukotriene formation.

 

Also, have patient drink at least 2-3 liters of water throughout the

day to promote the secretion of uric acid.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Daniel C. Luthi

Nutrition Educator

Zhejiang, China

[Guest guest]

Hi all

 

just joined this site.

 

I'd like to make the observation that all the patients that have ever

turned up at my clinc with Gout had been on medication for high blood

pressure for at leat 6-8 years. In my mind I have no doubt, though no

proof. That the drug's effect on the Kidneys were responsible.

salvador

[Guest guest]

Here is a another view of the energetic nature of this disease as

well as of its treatment by acupuncture:

 

http://www.acumedico.com/discus/messages/25/129.html?1069868540

 

All the best,

Shmuel - http://www.acumedico.com

[Guest guest]

Re Salvador's observation that there seems to be a link between blood

pressure medication and gout. I have noticed this too. Once again, we are

proving

that we really do know know how to 'shoot ourselves in the foot' - no pun

intended!

Christine

[Guest guest]

The gout is not the Wind-Cold-dampness Bi syndrome. It is not affected by wind-cold but very must related to Diet and metabolism. When we talk about the diet and metabolism is closely related to spleen organ in TCM term. Just like we consume the cloying food leading to formation of phlegm. In this case have a similar aetiology. Its very must cause by the weakness of the spleen organ which is impairment of transform and transport function leading up accumulation dampness. The stagnation of dampness transforms it in to the turbid phlegm. Base on that is related to " Tan He (·ð®Ö)" ¡V phlegm nodular rather than Bi syndrome. So the treatment strategies should be soften the mass and disperse phlegm, improve the spleen and tonifies the Kidney.

I have an experience of using the " Zhi Bai Di Huang Wan" as a preventive measure.

All the best

joeacumedico <halevis wrote:

Here is a another view of the energetic nature of this disease as well as of its treatment by acupuncture:http://www.acumedico.com/discus/messages/25/129.html?1069868540All the best,Shmuel - http://www.acumedico.comMembership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none, visit the groups?homepage: Chinese Medicine/ click ‘edit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly. To send an email to<Chinese Medicine- > from the email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but will still recieve messages for a few days.

[Guest guest]

I am afraid I can not agree with you on this Joe. Nobody says gout

is Wind-Cold-Dampness, yet it IS a severe BI-stagnation syndrome. It

is a Blood-stasis kind of Bi. If you analyze the manifestations of

gout, you find extreme local pain with stabbing quality, a deep

purple-black color in the affected joint, swelling and pricking as

well as black blood when you squeeze out a few drops of blood. All

of these signs, as well as usually a very choppy and wiry pulse,

indicate a blood stasis phenomenon. There is another sign indicative

of blood stasis. Most gout sufferers feel somewhat relieved when hot

shower is applied on the gout, whereas damp-heat sufferers usually

feel worse with hot water. If you refer to the cause of gout, you

can see that it is caused by the sedimentation of very sharp uric-

acid microscopic cristals in the joint's connective tissues with the

ligaments and inside the crevices of the joint. This is purely a

microscopic trauma to the joint, a trauma that leads to blood stasis

per-se.

I know that many schools of acupuncture teach their students what

you have said, but alas, experience and logic must prevail. Also, as

I have said in the link above (

http://www.acumedico.com/discus/messages/25/129.html?1069868540 )

if you treat by acupuncture in the technique of blood-stasis

removing, results are immediate and excellent, which is of course

the final proof to what I argue.

When speaking about the causes of gout, I think that you are wrong

again. People may get gout from different etiologies. Some people

get it from excessive liver Yang Qi or liver Qi stagnation (these

are mostly those who exhibit also hypertension, as few of the

writers here indicated), some patients get to this problem out of K.

Qi deficienecy leading to the down pouring of damp heat (later

evolving into blood stasis), and some, not the majority by all

means, due to spleen syndromes. BTW, I wonder if you know that there

is a considerable number of patients that get into a gout attack

simply by having a blow or impact directly on their knee or toe, and

sometimes even due to the exertion of a specific joint. This further

indicates a blood stasis factor.

 

Shmuel, http://acumedico.com

 

 

 

The gout is not the Wind-Cold-dampness Bi syndrome. It is not

affected by wind-cold but very must related to Diet and metabolism.

When we talk about the diet and metabolism is closely related to

spleen organ in TCM term. Just like we consume the cloying food

leading to formation of phlegm. In this case have a similar

aetiology. Its very must cause by the weakness of the spleen organ

which is impairment of transform and transport function leading up

accumulation dampness. The stagnation of dampness transforms it in

to the turbid phlegm. Base on that is related to " Tan He (·ð®Ö) " ¡V

phlegm nodular rather than Bi syndrome. So the treatment strategies

should be soften the mass and disperse phlegm, improve the spleen

and tonifies the Kidney.

>

> I have an experience of using the " Zhi Bai Di Huang Wan " as a

preventive measure.

>

> All the best

>

> joe

>

>

> acumedico <halevis@a...> wrote:Here is a another view of the

energetic nature of this disease as

> well as of its treatment by acupuncture:

>

> http://www.acumedico.com/discus/messages/25/129.html?1069868540

>

> All the best,

> Shmuel - http://www.acumedico.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , " Pam D'Alberto "

<pdalberto@h...> wrote:

>

> Hi, Can anyone give me any suggestions on the treatment of Gout

using both

> acupuncture and herbs. sorry i don't have any more information

about the

> patient at the moment, but your help would be most appreciated. Pam

>

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Hi Pam,

 

Just wanted to shed a bit more light on the subject, please consider

the following in your treatment plan ..

 

-as you know gout is basically caused by excess urate floating in the

blood which crystalizes near the extremeties = pain !!!

-excess urate can be caused by .. (a) increased production of

urate .. (b)reduced elimination of urate (via urine)

 

(a)increased production via

-Genetic (Jing) .. mutations of controlling enzymes

-Acquired (lifestyle) .. high intake of dietary purine (e.g red meat

& some legumes).. high alcohol consumption

 

(b)reduced elimination

-Genetic (Jing) .. body 'just'has poor elimination of urate

-Acquired (due to the presence of).. renal failure .. hypertension ..

low urine volume .. pharmaceuticals (esp a 'thiazide diueretic' such

as bendroflurazide = ask doctor to change it)= need to carefully

address other factors in treatment

 

regards jas

[Guest guest]

Shmuel,

 

Thank you for this well considered post. Very clear with regard to both Eastern and Western theory. Also your comments on trauma or exertion leading to attacks is quite interesting. I teach anatomy and physiology with clinical correlations, so I will think more deeply now about the pathophysiology of gout.

 

In gratitude,

Emmanuel Segmen

Merritt College, Asia Natural

 

 

-

acumedico

Chinese Medicine

Tuesday, December 02, 2003 8:55 AM

Re: Gout

I am afraid I can not agree with you on this Joe. Nobody says gout is Wind-Cold-Dampness, yet it IS a severe BI-stagnation syndrome. It is a Blood-stasis kind of Bi. If you analyze the manifestations of gout, you find extreme local pain with stabbing quality, a deep purple-black color in the affected joint, swelling and pricking as well as black blood when you squeeze out a few drops of blood. All of these signs, as well as usually a very choppy and wiry pulse, indicate a blood stasis phenomenon. There is another sign indicative of blood stasis. Most gout sufferers feel somewhat relieved when hot shower is applied on the gout, whereas damp-heat sufferers usually feel worse with hot water. If you refer to the cause of gout, you can see that it is caused by the sedimentation of very sharp uric-acid microscopic cristals in the joint's connective tissues with the ligaments and inside the crevices of the joint. This is purely a microscopic trauma to the joint, a trauma that leads to blood stasis per-se. I know that many schools of acupuncture teach their students what you have said, but alas, experience and logic must prevail. Also, as I have said in the link above ( http://www.acumedico.com/discus/messages/25/129.html?1069868540 )if you treat by acupuncture in the technique of blood-stasis removing, results are immediate and excellent, which is of course the final proof to what I argue.When speaking about the causes of gout, I think that you are wrong again. People may get gout from different etiologies. Some people get it from excessive liver Yang Qi or liver Qi stagnation (these are mostly those who exhibit also hypertension, as few of the writers here indicated), some patients get to this problem out of K. Qi deficienecy leading to the down pouring of damp heat (later evolving into blood stasis), and some, not the majority by all means, due to spleen syndromes. BTW, I wonder if you know that there is a considerable number of patients that get into a gout attack simply by having a blow or impact directly on their knee or toe, and sometimes even due to the exertion of a specific joint. This further indicates a blood stasis factor.Shmuel, http://acumedico.comThe gout is not the Wind-Cold-dampness Bi syndrome. It is not affected by wind-cold but very must related to Diet and metabolism. When we talk about the diet and metabolism is closely related to spleen organ in TCM term. Just like we consume the cloying food leading to formation of phlegm. In this case have a similar aetiology. Its very must cause by the weakness of the spleen organ which is impairment of transform and transport function leading up accumulation dampness. The stagnation of dampness transforms it in to the turbid phlegm. Base on that is related to " Tan He (·ð®Ö)" ¡V phlegm nodular rather than Bi syndrome. So the treatment strategies should be soften the mass and disperse phlegm, improve the spleen and tonifies the Kidney. > > I have an experience of using the " Zhi Bai Di Huang Wan" as a preventive measure. > > All the best> > joe> > > acumedico <halevis@a...> wrote:Here is a another view of the energetic nature of this disease as > well as of its treatment by acupuncture:> > http://www.acumedico.com/discus/messages/25/129.html?1069868540> > All the best,> Shmuel - http://www.acumedico.com>