Alternatives to Vioxx

October 3, 2004

Good Afternoon:

Thanks so much for this message about the alternatives to vioxx. I had been taking Vioxx for quite sometime and have been very happy with the results. I was very upset and shocked to see it being taken off the market.

I now have to go back to my doctor for a new perscription for another replacement.

Thanks for the good info...

kai3333yogiguruji <yogiguruji wrote:

Good Morning!Alternatives to VioxxToday, Vioxx is being pulled from the shelfs of pharmacies world wide, due to a newest study that has shown an increased risk if heart attack and stroke. There is an increased risk especially for those taking Vioxx for more than 18 months. For those who are not aware of Vioxx, this is a pharmacutical drug for arthritis and joint pain.View full story here:http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNews & storyID=6378459 & section=newsBelow are some suggestion I give to patients:Alfalfa contains minerals for bone formation. Joint inflammation and pain are greatly reduced with White Willow. White Willow bark has anti-inflammatory and pain-relieving effects. Extracts providing 60–120 mg salicin

per day are approved for people with rheumatoid arthritis. Although the analgesic actions of willow are typically slow-acting, they last longer than aspirin. A cream containing small amounts of Capsaicin, a compound found in Cayenne Pepper,can help relieve pain when rubbed onto arthritic joints, according to the results of a double blind study. It does this by depleting the nerves of a pain-mediating neurotransmitter known as substance P. Although application of capsaicin cream may initially cause a burning feeling, the burning will lessen with each application and soon disappear for most people. A cream containing 0.025–0.075% of capsaicin can be applied to the affected joints three to five times a day. Dandelion, Devil's Claw and Wintergreen have also been helpful with Rheumatoid Arthritis. Ginger has been used in Ayurvedic medicine as an anti-inflammatory. Taking 6–50 grams of fresh or powdered ginger per day

indicated that ginger might be helpful.Glucosamine and chondroitin can help repair damaged joint cartilage and prevent joint erosion. The combination seems to be showing the most promise as an arthritis cure. Glucosamine sulfate (GS), a nutrient derived from sea shells, contains a building block needed for the repair of joint cartilage. GS has significantly reduced symptoms of osteoarthritis. All published clinical investigations on the effects of GS in people with osteoarthritis report statistically significant improvement. Most research trials use 500 mg GS taken three times per day. Benefits from GS generally become evident after three to eight weeks of treatment. Avoid if you have any allergic reactions to shell fish. Glucosamine stimulates the production of the specific elements of cartilage and protects them. It helps your body repair worn cartilage, reduce pain and improve function. Chondroitin attracts

fluids into proteoglycans, the molecules dispersed through out the cartilage that give the tissue its shock-absorber quality, and protects the cartilage against breakdown. These are substances the body already produces for itself in small amounts. Glucosamine sulfate, a dietary supplement reduces the signs and symptoms of osteoarthritis of the knee, according to research presented at the American College of Rheumatology Annual Scientific Meeting Nov. 13-17 in Boston, Mass. "For the first time, we have shown that a compound may be able at least to slow down the progression of osteoarthritis," said lead investigator Jean-Yves Reginster, MD PhD, of the University of Liege in Belgium. Osteoarthritis, the most common form of arthritis, is the deterioration of cartilage that cushions bones in the joints. This affects 12 percent of the population, many of whom eventually undergo total joint replacement or become disabled.

The three-year study compared disease symptoms and average joint space widths, as measured by radiographs, between patients taking a 1500 mg daily dose of glucosamine sulfate and those taking a placebo. Joint space narrowed in patients on placebo but showed no further narrowing in patients on glucosamine sulfate. Symptoms worsened for patients on placebo and improved for those on glucosamine sulfate. The Arthritis Foundation says there is sufficient information to support the pain relief claims made for SAM-e. Glucosamine is found in almost all tissue; it has a role in the repair and maintenance of joint cartilage. Chondroitin sulfate is a major component of cartilage and is thought to inhibit the enzymes that contribute to the breakdown of cartilage. SAM-e is derived from methionine, an essential amino acid; it may promote cartilage formation and repair. Glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate are usually sold together. In

clinical studies, the supplements had to be taken for several weeks before providing any pain relief. Don't forget the truly natural and proven methods for battling osteoarthritis, lose excess weight and exercise. S-adenosyl methionine (SAMe) possesses anti-inflammatory, pain-relieving, and tissue-healing properties that may help protect the health of joints. The primary way in which SAMe reduces osteoarthritis symptoms remains unclear. SAMe increases the formation of healthy tissue and reduces pain and stiffness and equal to over the counter drugs such as Ibuprofen and Naproxen. 400 mg taken three times per day appears to be the optimal intake of SAMe. Bromelain is a plant-enzyme. Bromelain is not actually a single substance, but a group of protein-digesting enzymes found in pineapple juice and in the stem of pineapple plants. It is primarily produced in Japan, Hawaii, and Taiwan. Local swelling is the

releasing of histimines in a localized area causes the vasodilation and increased permeability of blood vessels. Bromelain has an anti-inflammatory effect and is a very effective treatment for Rheumatoid Arthritis. It is recommend taking 200 to 400 milligrams three times a day on an empty stomach at least ninety minutes before or three hours after eating. Discontinue use if you develop any itching or rash. Aromatherapy complements other treatments for arthritis. Essential oils that benefit arthritis include basil, black pepper, lemon, eucalyptus, ginger... these oils can ease pain and discomfort, reduce swelling, and relieve sore muscles. Homeopathy works. Consider the following:Kali Carbonicum: is often considered for symptoms of arthritis; pain in the lower back, shoulder blades or knees; wakefulness between 2 and 4 a.m.; sensitivity to cold weather and feelings of anxiety felt in the stomach or solar

plexus. Someone needing this remedy may have a conservative nature.Aconitum napellus: This remedy may be helpful for pain and inflammation that comes on suddenly after exposure to cold wind and weather. The person is likely to feel fearful, panicked, or agitated. Apis mellifica: This remedy can be helpful in acute conditions with redness, tenderness, and swelling. Joints feel hot and have stinging pain. The hands and knees are often affected. Warmth can aggravate the symptoms and cool applications bring relief. Bryonia: This remedy can be useful for tearing or throbbing pain that is worse from any motion. Rest and pressure may bring relief (if the pressure adds stability), but movement is intolerable. Cold applications often reduce discomfort. Calcarea fluorica: This remedy is often indicated for arthritic pains that are improved by heat and motion. Joints become enlarged and hard, and nodosities or bone

spurs may develop. For more help with arthritis, go to:http://www.peacefulmind.com/arthritis_frame.htmAndrew Pacholyk, MS, L.Ac.Peacefulmind.comTherapies for healingmind, body, spirit********************************************* WWW.PEACEFULMIND.COM Sponsors Alternative Answers-HEALING NATURALLY- this is the premise of HOLISTIC HEALTH. Preventative and Curative measure to take for many ailments at:http://www.peacefulmind.com/ailments_frame.htm__________-To INVITE A FRIEND to our healing community, copy and paste this address in an email to them:http://www./members_add

_________To ADD A LINK, RESOURCE, OR WEBSITE to Alternative Answers please Go to: http://www./links___________Community email addresses: Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner _______Shortcut URL to this page: http://www.

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October 4, 2004

Comments?

Misty L. Trepke

http://www..com

Alternatives to Vioxx

Today, Vioxx is being pulled from the shelfs of pharmacies world

wide, due to a newest study that has shown an increased risk if

heart attack and stroke. There is an increased risk especially for

those taking Vioxx for more than 18 months. For those who are not

aware of Vioxx, this is a pharmacutical drug for arthritis and joint

pain.

View full story here:

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?

type=healthNews & storyID=6378459 & section=news

Below are some suggestion I give to patients:

Alfalfa contains minerals for bone formation. Joint inflammation and

pain are greatly reduced with White Willow. White Willow bark has

anti-inflammatory and pain-relieving effects. Extracts providing 60–

120 mg salicin per day are approved for people with rheumatoid

arthritis. Although the analgesic actions of willow are typically

slow-acting, they last longer than aspirin.

A cream containing small amounts of Capsaicin, a compound found in

Cayenne Pepper,can help relieve pain when rubbed onto arthritic

joints, according to the results of a double blind study. It does

this by depleting the nerves of a pain-mediating neurotransmitter

known as substance P. Although application of capsaicin cream may

initially cause a burning feeling, the burning will lessen with each

application and soon disappear for most people. A cream containing

0.025–0.075% of capsaicin can be applied to the affected joints

three to five times a day.

Dandelion, Devil's Claw and Wintergreen have also been helpful with

Rheumatoid Arthritis.

Ginger has been used in Ayurvedic medicine as an anti-inflammatory.

Taking 6–50 grams of fresh or powdered ginger per day indicated that

ginger might be helpful.Glucosamine and chondroitin can help repair

damaged joint cartilage and prevent joint erosion. The combination

seems to be showing the most promise as an arthritis cure.

Glucosamine sulfate (GS), a nutrient derived from sea shells,

contains a building block needed for the repair of joint cartilage.

GS has significantly reduced symptoms of osteoarthritis. All

published clinical investigations on the effects of GS in people

with osteoarthritis report statistically significant improvement.

Most research trials use 500 mg GS taken three times per day.

Benefits from GS generally become evident after three to eight weeks

of treatment. Avoid if you have any allergic reactions to shell

fish.

Glucosamine stimulates the production of the specific elements of

cartilage and protects them. It helps your body repair worn

cartilage, reduce pain and improve function. Chondroitin attracts

fluids into proteoglycans, the molecules dispersed through out the

cartilage that give the tissue its shock-absorber quality, and

protects the cartilage against breakdown. These are substances the

body already produces for itself in small amounts.

Glucosamine sulfate, a dietary supplement reduces the signs and

symptoms of osteoarthritis of the knee, according to research

presented at the American College of Rheumatology Annual Scientific

Meeting Nov. 13-17 in Boston, Mass.

" For the first time, we have shown that a compound may be able at

least to slow down the progression of osteoarthritis, " said lead

investigator Jean-Yves Reginster, MD PhD, of the University of Liege

in Belgium. Osteoarthritis, the most common form of arthritis, is

the deterioration of cartilage that cushions bones in the joints.

This affects 12 percent of the population, many of whom eventually

undergo total joint replacement or become disabled. The three-year

study compared disease symptoms and average joint space widths, as

measured by radiographs, between patients taking a 1500 mg daily

dose of glucosamine sulfate and those taking a placebo. Joint space

narrowed in patients on placebo but showed no further narrowing in

patients on glucosamine sulfate. Symptoms worsened for patients on

placebo and improved for those on glucosamine sulfate.

The Arthritis Foundation says there is sufficient information to

support the pain relief claims made for SAM-e. Glucosamine is found

in almost all tissue; it has a role in the repair and maintenance of

joint cartilage. Chondroitin sulfate is a major component of

cartilage and is thought to inhibit the enzymes that contribute to

the breakdown of cartilage. SAM-e is derived from methionine, an

essential amino acid; it may promote cartilage formation and repair.

Glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate are usually sold together. In

clinical studies, the supplements had to be taken for several weeks

before providing any pain relief. Don't forget the truly natural and

proven methods for battling osteoarthritis, lose excess weight and

exercise.

S-adenosyl methionine (SAMe) possesses anti-inflammatory, pain-

relieving, and tissue-healing properties that may help protect the

health of joints. The primary way in which SAMe reduces

osteoarthritis symptoms remains unclear. SAMe increases the

formation of healthy tissue and reduces pain and stiffness and equal

to over the counter drugs such as Ibuprofen and Naproxen. 400 mg

taken three times per day appears to be the optimal intake of SAMe.

Bromelain is a plant-enzyme. Bromelain is not actually a single

substance, but a group of protein-digesting enzymes found in

pineapple juice and in the stem of pineapple plants. It is primarily

produced in Japan, Hawaii, and Taiwan.

Local swelling is the releasing of histimines in a localized area

causes the vasodilation and increased permeability of blood vessels.

Bromelain has an anti-inflammatory effect and is a very effective

treatment for Rheumatoid Arthritis. It is recommend taking 200 to

400 milligrams three times a day on an empty stomach at least ninety

minutes before or three hours after eating. Discontinue use if you

develop any itching or rash.

Aromatherapy complements other treatments for arthritis. Essential

oils that benefit arthritis include basil, black pepper, lemon,

eucalyptus, ginger... these oils can ease pain and discomfort,

reduce swelling, and relieve sore muscles.

Homeopathy works. Consider the following:

Kali Carbonicum: is often considered for symptoms of arthritis; pain

in the lower back, shoulder blades or knees; wakefulness between 2

and 4 a.m.; sensitivity to cold weather and feelings of anxiety felt

in the stomach or solar plexus. Someone needing this remedy may have

a conservative nature.

Aconitum napellus: This remedy may be helpful for pain and

inflammation that comes on suddenly after exposure to cold wind and

weather. The person is likely to feel fearful, panicked, or

agitated.

Apis mellifica: This remedy can be helpful in acute conditions with

redness, tenderness, and swelling. Joints feel hot and have stinging

pain. The hands and knees are often affected. Warmth can aggravate

the symptoms and cool applications bring relief.

Bryonia: This remedy can be useful for tearing or throbbing pain

that is worse from any motion. Rest and pressure may bring relief

(if the pressure adds stability), but movement is intolerable. Cold

applications often reduce discomfort.

Calcarea fluorica: This remedy is often indicated for arthritic

pains that are improved by heat and motion. Joints become enlarged

and hard, and nodosities or bone spurs may develop.

For more help with arthritis, go to:

http://www.peacefulmind.com/arthritis_frame.htm

Andrew Pacholyk, MS, L.Ac.

Peacefulmind.com

Therapies for healing

mind, body, spirit

October 4, 2004

Andrew's alternatives to Vioxx would also be alternatives to any replacement your doctor might give you. They would be safer and might even be more effective. So you might want to go back to your doctor for a replacement, but you don't have to.......

Linda

-

kai medina

Sunday, October 03, 2004 1:52 PM

Re: Alternatives to Vioxx

Good Afternoon:

Thanks so much for this message about the alternatives to vioxx. I had been taking Vioxx for quite sometime and have been very happy with the results. I was very upset and shocked to see it being taken off the market.

I now have to go back to my doctor for a new perscription for another replacement.

Thanks for the good info...

kai3333yogiguruji <yogiguruji wrote:

Good Morning!Alternatives to VioxxToday, Vioxx is being pulled from the shelfs of pharmacies world wide, due to a newest study that has shown an increased risk if heart attack and stroke. There is an increased risk especially for those taking Vioxx for more than 18 months. For those who are not aware of Vioxx, this is a pharmacutical drug for arthritis and joint pain.View full story here:http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNews & storyID=6378459 & section=newsBelow are some suggestion I give to patients:Alfalfa contains minerals for bone formation. Joint inflammation and pain are greatly reduced with White Willow. White Willow bark has anti-inflammatory and pain-relieving effects. Extracts providing 60–120 mg salicin per day are approved for people with rheumatoid arthritis. Although the analgesic actions of willow are typically slow-acting, they last longer than aspirin. A cream containing small amounts of Capsaicin, a compound found in Cayenne Pepper,can help relieve pain when rubbed onto arthritic joints, according to the results of a double blind study. It does this by depleting the nerves of a pain-mediating neurotransmitter known as substance P. Although application of capsaicin cream may initially cause a burning feeling, the burning will lessen with each application and soon disappear for most people. A cream containing 0.025–0.075% of capsaicin can be applied to the affected joints three to five times a day. Dandelion, Devil's Claw and Wintergreen have also been helpful with Rheumatoid Arthritis. Ginger has been used in Ayurvedic medicine as an anti-inflammatory. Taking 6–50 grams of fresh or powdered ginger per day indicated that ginger might be helpful.Glucosamine and chondroitin can help repair damaged joint cartilage and prevent joint erosion. The combination seems to be showing the most promise as an arthritis cure. Glucosamine sulfate (GS), a nutrient derived from sea shells, contains a building block needed for the repair of joint cartilage. GS has significantly reduced symptoms of osteoarthritis. All published clinical investigations on the effects of GS in people with osteoarthritis report statistically significant improvement. Most research trials use 500 mg GS taken three times per day. Benefits from GS generally become evident after three to eight weeks of treatment. Avoid if you have any allergic reactions to shell fish. Glucosamine stimulates the production of the specific elements of cartilage and protects them. It helps your body repair worn cartilage, reduce pain and improve function. Chondroitin attracts fluids into proteoglycans, the molecules dispersed through out the cartilage that give the tissue its shock-absorber quality, and protects the cartilage against breakdown. These are substances the body already produces for itself in small amounts. Glucosamine sulfate, a dietary supplement reduces the signs and symptoms of osteoarthritis of the knee, according to research presented at the American College of Rheumatology Annual Scientific Meeting Nov. 13-17 in Boston, Mass. "For the first time, we have shown that a compound may be able at least to slow down the progression of osteoarthritis," said lead investigator Jean-Yves Reginster, MD PhD, of the University of Liege in Belgium. Osteoarthritis, the most common form of arthritis, is the deterioration of cartilage that cushions bones in the joints. This affects 12 percent of the population, many of whom eventually undergo total joint replacement or become disabled. The three-year study compared disease symptoms and average joint space widths, as measured by radiographs, between patients taking a 1500 mg daily dose of glucosamine sulfate and those taking a placebo. Joint space narrowed in patients on placebo but showed no further narrowing in patients on glucosamine sulfate. Symptoms worsened for patients on placebo and improved for those on glucosamine sulfate. The Arthritis Foundation says there is sufficient information to support the pain relief claims made for SAM-e. Glucosamine is found in almost all tissue; it has a role in the repair and maintenance of joint cartilage. Chondroitin sulfate is a major component of cartilage and is thought to inhibit the enzymes that contribute to the breakdown of cartilage. SAM-e is derived from methionine, an essential amino acid; it may promote cartilage formation and repair. Glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate are usually sold together. In clinical studies, the supplements had to be taken for several weeks before providing any pain relief. Don't forget the truly natural and proven methods for battling osteoarthritis, lose excess weight and exercise. S-adenosyl methionine (SAMe) possesses anti-inflammatory, pain-relieving, and tissue-healing properties that may help protect the health of joints. The primary way in which SAMe reduces osteoarthritis symptoms remains unclear. SAMe increases the formation of healthy tissue and reduces pain and stiffness and equal to over the counter drugs such as Ibuprofen and Naproxen. 400 mg taken three times per day appears to be the optimal intake of SAMe. Bromelain is a plant-enzyme. Bromelain is not actually a single substance, but a group of protein-digesting enzymes found in pineapple juice and in the stem of pineapple plants. It is primarily produced in Japan, Hawaii, and Taiwan. Local swelling is the releasing of histimines in a localized area causes the vasodilation and increased permeability of blood vessels. Bromelain has an anti-inflammatory effect and is a very effective treatment for Rheumatoid Arthritis. It is recommend taking 200 to 400 milligrams three times a day on an empty stomach at least ninety minutes before or three hours after eating. Discontinue use if you develop any itching or rash. Aromatherapy complements other treatments for arthritis. Essential oils that benefit arthritis include basil, black pepper, lemon, eucalyptus, ginger... these oils can ease pain and discomfort, reduce swelling, and relieve sore muscles. Homeopathy works. Consider the following:Kali Carbonicum: is often considered for symptoms of arthritis; pain in the lower back, shoulder blades or knees; wakefulness between 2 and 4 a.m.; sensitivity to cold weather and feelings of anxiety felt in the stomach or solar plexus. Someone needing this remedy may have a conservative nature.Aconitum napellus: This remedy may be helpful for pain and inflammation that comes on suddenly after exposure to cold wind and weather. The person is likely to feel fearful, panicked, or agitated. Apis mellifica: This remedy can be helpful in acute conditions with redness, tenderness, and swelling. Joints feel hot and have stinging pain. The hands and knees are often affected. Warmth can aggravate the symptoms and cool applications bring relief. Bryonia: This remedy can be useful for tearing or throbbing pain that is worse from any motion. Rest and pressure may bring relief (if the pressure adds stability), but movement is intolerable. Cold applications often reduce discomfort. Calcarea fluorica: This remedy is often indicated for arthritic pains that are improved by heat and motion. Joints become enlarged and hard, and nodosities or bone spurs may develop. For more help with arthritis, go to:http://www.peacefulmind.com/arthritis_frame.htmAndrew Pacholyk, MS, L.Ac.Peacefulmind.comTherapies for healingmind, body, spirit********************************************* WWW.PEACEFULMIND.COM Sponsors Alternative Answers-HEALING NATURALLY- this is the premise of HOLISTIC HEALTH. Preventative and Curative measure to take for many ailments at:http://www.peacefulmind.com/ailments_frame.htm__________-To INVITE A FRIEND to our healing community, copy and paste this address in an email to them:http://www./members_add _________To ADD A LINK, RESOURCE, OR WEBSITE to Alternative Answers please Go to: http://www./links___________Community email addresses: Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner _______Shortcut URL to this page: http://www.

New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages! ********************************************* WWW.PEACEFULMIND.COM Sponsors Alternative Answers-HEALING NATURALLY- this is the premise of HOLISTIC HEALTH. Preventative and Curative measure to take for many ailments at:http://www.peacefulmind.com/ailments_frame.htm__________-To INVITE A FRIEND to our healing community, copy and paste this address in an email to them:http://www./members_add _________To ADD A LINK, RESOURCE, OR WEBSITE to Alternative Answers please Go to: http://www./links___________Community email addresses: Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner _______Shortcut URL to this page: http://www.

October 4, 2004

Linda Bumpas wrote:

Andrew's alternatives to Vioxx would also be alternatives to any replacement your doctor might give you. They would be safer and might even be more effective. So you might want to go back to your doctor for a replacement, but you don't have to.......

Linda

You are taking the words right out of my mouth.

Did Andrew mention turmeric?

And MSM?

Green lipped New Zealand mussels?

Iporuru?

The world is full of safe, natural ways to

alleviate pain.

Pick some!

Ien in the Kootenays***********************************"What is the use of a house if you haven't got a tolerable planet to put it on?"~Thoreau Saving the Rainforest, a cup of tea at the timehttp://wildhealing.net***********************************

October 4, 2004

--- Linda Bumpas <lindabumpas wrote:

> Andrew's alternatives to Vioxx would also be

> alternatives to any replacement your doctor might

> give you. They would be safer and might even be

> more effective. So you might want to go back to

> your doctor for a replacement, but you don't have

> to.......

>

> Linda

I have a friend with fibromyalgia who is very upset

that vioxx is gone. Could you let me know if some of

these replacements actually work?

Laf

=====

Learn Out of Body Travel: http://www.crystalbroadcast.com/obee.html or just

visit my home page: http://www.crystalbroadcast.com

_______________________________

Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!

http://vote.

October 5, 2004

Drugs, is NOT the answer, arthritis and fibromyalgia is NOT due to a

deficiency of Vioxx!!! If you want optimal health, leave the

ignorant drs alone, they only know two things, give you drugs, or take

out body parts.

Pure MSM can greatly help both maladies, thats what the body is really

deficient in.

Russ, CL

October 5, 2004

I have a friend with fibromyalgia who is very upsetthat vioxx is gone. Could you let me know if some ofthese replacements actually work?Laf

Laf, how open is your friend to

alternatives?

What is her life style like?

Food? Cleaning materials in the house?

Stuff she puts onto her skin?

It all adds up.

Different programs work for different

people, at different times.

I don't make promises I cannot keep!

All I know is that the whole live wild

herb foods program that is my business

has performed wonders for SOME people

with fibro, and that if it does not

work for your friend as desired, she

can get her money back.

No questions asked, up to a YEAR after

purchase.

Fair enough?

I'd be happy to send your friend a

tea sample and a consumer guide.

Ien in the Kootenays***********************************"What is the use of a house if you haven't got a tolerable planet to put it on?"~Thoreau Saving the Rainforest, a cup of tea at the timehttp://wildhealing.net***********************************

October 5, 2004

>

>I have a friend with fibromyalgia who is very upset

>that vioxx is gone. Could you let me know if some of

>these replacements actually work?

>

>Laf

Have also found that Myofascial Release has been very effective

in working with people diagnosed with fibromyalgia, \

Antonia

--

Antonia Nelson

Integrative Coach & Therapist

http://www.Body-dynamics.com

920-868-9599

October 6, 2004

--- Ieneke van Houten <ienvan

wrote:

>

> I'd be happy to send your friend a

> tea sample and a consumer guide.

You can send it to me and I will forward it to her.

Laf

=====

Visit my home page: http://www.crystalbroadcast.com

October 6, 2004

Thanks to all..

kaiLinda Bumpas <lindabumpas wrote: