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Dear list,

 

Can some one help in understanding the pronunciation of thirds bjia of

Bala (Aim Klim Sauh)

 

Is it said as SauH or AsuHau as in vadic way. I am confused about the

Visarga pronunciation. Is it simply H or H with previous swara.

 

Regards,

Sanjay.

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(Moderator's note - Please try to learn these things in person from a qualified

teacher. Also use a correct transliteration scheme such as ITRANS while typing

Sanskrit)

 

Dear Mr. Sanjay

 

Iem Kleem Sowhu....

 

Iem - Pronounce I deeply and M ( do not stop in middle)

Kleem - Pronounce KLEE deeply and M --do--

Sowhu - SOW and Hu --do--

 

Always its best to see the sanskrit verses to have up and down prounsations and

to understand where to tell deeply.

 

At the feet of lalithai

S.Vasu Iyer - Tirupur.

 

 

shripati90 <kr.sanjaysingh

 

Tuesday, 26 June, 2007 4:09:49 PM

the bija

 

Dear list,

 

Can some one help in understanding the pronunciation of thirds bjia of

Bala (Aim Klim Sauh)

 

Is it said as SauH or AsuHau as in vadic way. I am confused about the

Visarga pronunciation. Is it simply H or H with previous swara.

 

Regards,

Sanjay.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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All New Mail – Tired of unwanted email come-ons? Let our SpamGuard

protect you. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html

 

 

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Personally I feel that it should be pronounced as SAUHA. This mantra is

coined in such a way that when you say HA at the end you expel the air

inside your lungs and even in stomach. This may possibly to ensure that when

people do havan there might be smoke and soot getting into the lungs and to

expel the same the word was used as HA - PROBABLY IN ALL HAVANS THE WORD

SWAHA was coined for this purpose only.

I have seen havans beng done with the word SWAHAHA, whereas most people do

it with the word SWAHA.

Therefore i personally feel that the word should be chanted as SAUHA INSTEAD

OF SAUHU,because the word HAMSAHA is NOT pronounced as HAMSAUHA.

 

I am not a sanskrit expert and do not know gramatical requirements. Can

anyone explain, so that everybody doing Bala will be benefitted.

 

Finally the sampradaya and guru vakya are considered more important and

powerful but at the same time if the guru is incompetent it is said that one

can seek another guru, as a bee would go from flower to flower to collect

the honey.

 

Regards,

S.SHANGARANARAYANAN

 

 

> " shripati90 " <kr.sanjaysingh

>

>

> the bija

>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:39:49 -0000

>

>Dear list,

>

>Can some one help in understanding the pronunciation of thirds bjia of

>Bala (Aim Klim Sauh)

>

>Is it said as SauH or AsuHau as in vadic way. I am confused about the

>Visarga pronunciation. Is it simply H or H with previous swara.

>

>Regards,

>Sanjay.

>

 

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Hari OM

 

the two dots : are called visarga they reflect the vowel sound

AHA

AAHAA

OHO

AUHAU

the reflected vowel is more a breath then a hard sound

 

Jai Maa

j kalianandaswami

 

S Sangaranarayanan <sangarsai wrote:

Personally I feel that it should be pronounced as SAUHA. This mantra

is

coined in such a way that when you say HA at the end you expel the air

inside your lungs and even in stomach. This may possibly to ensure that when

people do havan there might be smoke and soot getting into the lungs and to

expel the same the word was used as HA - PROBABLY IN ALL HAVANS THE WORD

SWAHA was coined for this purpose only.

I have seen havans beng done with the word SWAHAHA, whereas most people do

it with the word SWAHA.

Therefore i personally feel that the word should be chanted as SAUHA INSTEAD

OF SAUHU,because the word HAMSAHA is NOT pronounced as HAMSAUHA.

 

I am not a sanskrit expert and do not know gramatical requirements. Can

anyone explain, so that everybody doing Bala will be benefitted.

 

Finally the sampradaya and guru vakya are considered more important and

powerful but at the same time if the guru is incompetent it is said that one

can seek another guru, as a bee would go from flower to flower to collect

the honey.

 

Regards,

S.SHANGARANARAYANAN

 

> " shripati90 " <kr.sanjaysingh

>

>

> the bija

>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:39:49 -0000

>

>Dear list,

>

>Can some one help in understanding the pronunciation of thirds bjia of

>Bala (Aim Klim Sauh)

>

>Is it said as SauH or AsuHau as in vadic way. I am confused about the

>Visarga pronunciation. Is it simply H or H with previous swara.

>

>Regards,

>Sanjay.

>

 

________

Catch all the cricketing action right here. Live score, match reports,

photos et al. http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/Cricket/Default.aspx

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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protection.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
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i have been taught that if visarga is pronounced in mantras it becomes a badha

 

J Kalianandaswami <baba108 wrote: Hari OM

 

the two dots : are called visarga they reflect the vowel sound

AHA

AAHAA

OHO

AUHAU

the reflected vowel is more a breath then a hard sound

 

Jai Maa

j kalianandaswami

 

S Sangaranarayanan <sangarsai wrote:

Personally I feel that it should be pronounced as SAUHA. This mantra is

[...]

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Shri Mahaganapathaye Namah:

 

Hello Folks:

 

My perspective on this is as below.

 

I came across some funny versions of the Shri Mahaganapathy Mantram

during some Homams that were being performed. I asked my Guruji about

this difference. He said (in Tamil) " Avaavaalukku eppadi upadeshamo

appadiye shollattum " - meaning " As each person has been given

upadesham, let them repeat the exact same way " .

 

I guess the argument of exact pronunciation is an endless one. I have

seen the same mantras repeated with difference in pronunciation due to

regional / language differences. The same mantras are pronounced

differently in Bengal, Andhra, Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Kashmir,

Maharashtra and so on.

 

Even the famous Shiva Panchakshari is pronounced with slight, subtle

differences in various states in India.

 

Yet, everyone gets the benefit of the mantras. Strange but true.

 

This is not much help in resolving the issue, I suppose, but then the

only resolution in my mind is that one should repeat these mantras as

initiated.

 

I like to pronounce it one particular way.. and all of the Guru

Shishya parampara in my Guruji ashram repeat it the same way.

 

Shri Gurubhyo Namah.

Shri Mahathripurasundaryai Namah.

 

Pranams.

KR.

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only the last word in a sentence is the visarga applied all other words it is

silent

 

sankara menon <kochu1tz wrote: i have been taught that if

visarga is pronounced in mantras it becomes a badha

 

J Kalianandaswami <baba108 wrote: Hari OM

 

the two dots : are called visarga they reflect the vowel sound

AHA

AAHAA

OHO

AUHAU

the reflected vowel is more a breath then a hard sound

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I fully agree with KR. In order to emphasise the aspect of guroopadesham there

are many stories when a meaningless or derisive word spoken by Guru is

mistakenly accepted by shishya as mantropadesha and the shishya attaining

siddhis.

If I am correct, thats exactly what was emphasised in the two sootras of

Parashurama kalpa sootras

" Bhaavanaa dhaardhyaat nigrahaanugraha sheshi "

and

" Vishwaasa bhooyishtam praamaanyam " .

 

Kumar Ramachandran <kramach wrote:

 

Shri Mahaganapathaye Namah:

 

Hello Folks:

 

My perspective on this is as below.

 

I came across some funny versions of the Shri Mahaganapathy Mantram

during some Homams that were being performed. I asked my Guruji about

this difference. He said (in Tamil) " Avaavaalukku eppadi upadeshamo

appadiye shollattum " - meaning " As each person has been given

upadesham, let them repeat the exact same way " .

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My question was when chanting the bala bija mantra sauhu, whether it should

be pronounced as sauha or sauhu. the same visarga is pronounced as hamsaha

and sauhu etc., why this difference. I have had no perfect answers so far.

Regards,

S.SHANGARANARAYANAN

 

 

>J Kalianandaswami <baba108

>

>

>RE: the bija

>Sun, 8 Jul 2007 12:56:39 -0700 (PDT)

>

>only the last word in a sentence is the visarga applied all other words it

>is silent

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Dear Brother/sister,

 

A competent guru is one who has the experience of the divine by himself and

is capable of transferring that energy with the mantra to the sishya. There

cannot be any exception in any mantra pronounciation as all of them are from

mantra mahodathi or mantra arnava or srividhya arnava etc. May be the

language will come in between to pronounce but that does not mean any one

can utter the mantra in the wrong way. They are coined by great rishis to

usher the desired effects and therefore should be meticulously followed. it

is the duty of great acharyas and saints to correct the wrongs. No

compromise is advised.

What I am trying to bring out is that the upasaka should learn how to

pronounce correctly rather than simply accepting this or that method.

Regards,

S.SHANGARANARAYANAN

 

 

> " Kumar Ramachandran " <kramach

>

>

> Re: the bija

>Sun, 08 Jul 2007 16:32:14 -0000

>

>

>Shri Mahaganapathaye Namah:

>

>Hello Folks:

>

>My perspective on this is as below.

>

>I came across some funny versions of the Shri Mahaganapathy Mantram

>during some Homams that were being performed. I asked my Guruji about

>this difference. He said (in Tamil) " Avaavaalukku eppadi upadeshamo

>appadiye shollattum " - meaning " As each person has been given

>upadesham, let them repeat the exact same way " .

>

>I guess the argument of exact pronunciation is an endless one. I have

>seen the same mantras repeated with difference in pronunciation due to

>regional / language differences. The same mantras are pronounced

>differently in Bengal, Andhra, Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Kashmir,

>Maharashtra and so on.

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(it is a long mail, actual reply starts at #5)

 

1. When discussing these matters it is better to base it on some text.

This symbol " : " in ITRANS as H, as in ramaH, is called visarga or

visarjaniya. This literally means expulsion of breath.

 

2. J. Kalianandaswami's assertion is sauH should be sauhau is not

correct in my opinion.

 

3. Most south indian pronunciation is heavily influenced by the

predominant vedic style of that region, krishna yajur veda, as

dictated by taittiriya prAtiSakhya. This spells out the rule on

specific details of how things should be pronounced including svara-s

of krishna yajur veda.

 

4. These rules are often followed for non-vedic texts also. For

example, vahni is enunciated as vanhi, brahma as brahma, etc.

 

5. Now coming to the question, sutra 2.48 addresses this. This sutra is

 

pUrvAntasasthAno visarjaniyaH.

 

It means visarjaniya (denoted by : or as H is itrans) is enunciated

from the same place as the preceding vowel. Even though it is not a

hard sound, only an expulsion of air. Because of its origination of

the same place of preceding vowel it is colored by it.

 

That is ramaH is enunciated as rama[ha]. This ha is not a real ha

sound. If it was, samskritam being a phonetic language would have

written it as ramaha instead of ramaH (I use ITRANS to write in

roman). But when you expel air from the same position of " a " is does

make feeble sound like " ha "

 

6. Now the varNa or vowel au is not pure (shuddha) or simple

(samaanya). prAtiSakhya calls vowels a, aa, aaa (pluuta), i, ii, ii,

u, u, uuu (9 of these) as simple of pure. But au is a complex vowel.

This means the preceding vowel sound is not " au " but something like

" u " . That is why, sauH will be like sau[hu]. According Charles Wikner

(in his wonderful book Practical Sanskrit Introductory discusses these

complex vowels in depth and he concludes it somewhere in between u and

o).

 

7. Hence answer to Sankaranarayanan is, it is not like sau[ha] but

like sau[hu]. This is not only the tradition, but it is backed by the

taittiriya prAtiSakhya.

 

8. In general when we have visarjaniya in between in the sentence, it

is better to use sandhi and go by it. Most old grantha books do it

wonderfully. Modern day books in devAnAgari lipi leave that exercise

to the read.

 

9. What this sandhi should be is carefully explained in taittiriiya

prAtiSakhya.

 

JSTOR has the entire taittiriiya prAtiSakhya with the tribhAshya ratna

commentary (English Translation) online as a PDF file. You can access

it for any good library that has internet subscription. I downloaded

my copy from UT library. This is an excellent 500 page book and

AFAIK, the only available English translation. This book is also in

archive.org, but it is not complete. If you are a follower of krishna

yajur veda, you SHOULD have it.

 

 

Full reference is

 

The Tâittirîya - Prâtiçâkhya, with Its Commentary, The Tribhâshyaratna: Text,

Translation, and Notes by William D. Whitney,

Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. 9. (1868 - 1871), pp. 1-469.

Stable URL:

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0003-0279%281868%2F1871%299%3C1%3ATT-PWI%3E2.0.\

CO%3B2-L

Journal of the American Oriental Society is currently published by

American Oriental Society.

 

 

On 7/9/07, S Sangaranarayanan <sangarsai wrote:

 

> My question was when chanting the bala bija mantra sauhu, whether it should

> be pronounced as sauha or sauhu. the same visarga is pronounced as hamsaha

> and sauhu etc., why this difference. I have had no perfect answers so far.

> Regards,

> S.SHANGARANARAYANAN

 

On the same thread J Kalianandaswami <baba108 wrote:

 

>the two dots : are called visarga they reflect the vowel sound

>AHA

>AAHAA

>OHO

>AUHAU

>the reflected vowel is more a breath then a hard sound

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On 7/11/07, Ravisankar Mayavaram <abhayambika wrote:

 

> 6. Now the varNa or vowel au is not pure (shuddha) or simple

> (samaanya). prAtiSakhya calls vowels a, aa, aaa (pluuta), i, ii, ii,

> u, u, uuu (9 of these) as simple of pure. But au is a complex vowel.

> This means the preceding vowel sound is not " au " but something like

> " u " . That is why, sauH will be like sau[hu]. According Charles Wikner

> (in his wonderful book Practical Sanskrit Introductory discusses these

> complex vowels in depth and he concludes it somewhere in between u and

> o).

 

Actually entire 2nd chapter of taittiriiya praatishaakhya deals with

this matter of pronunciation and how specific sounds are produced in

great depth. According to the text, au is made of 1/2 a in the

beginning + 1 1/2 u at the end. Similarly ai is 1/2 a + 1 1/2 i.

Translator Whitney wonders the the depth in which how the ancient

phoneticians understood how sounds are produced.

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  • 4 years later...

Hello ! Yes, i found quotes about pronuinciation of औ and ऐ in taittiriya praatsihakhya like you described; that holds well for the taittiriya, but whats about classical sanskrit ? Is there a similar pronunciation guide by patanjali for औ and ऐ and what does he say how to pronounce these ?

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