Guest guest Report post Posted April 15, 2010 There are pranayama techniques that when not practiced safely could cause problems, both physically and mentally. From the little knowledge that I have gathered, that is what all experienced teachers warn us about. Trusting more experienced people is generally a good thing, and so is explaining why. As a former diver, I know that too much oxygen, venting out all the carbon dioxide, can be lethal, i.e. in rare cases of extreme hyperventilation, because it turns off your impulse to breathe, which is governed by the CO2 level; and by the time your impulse to breathe kicks in again, you could already be unconscious... And depriving the brain of oxygen can also be unhealthy, even when done only by holding your breath by shear will power. Breath retention (kumbhaka) should only be performed without strain, and in the process of stilling the mind, reducing the heart rate, etc. However, there are of course more basic and simple pranayama techniques, that could (and should) be practiced even by a beginner. In Ashtanga Yoga, the first one is called Ujjayi breath, as I am sure everyone here knows... And thus, about when to start practicing pranayama separately from asana, is of course the choice of the individual practitioner/student, as much as the choice of the teacher. I think, there is nothing wrong with students arriving early to the shala, and starting their practice with a few minutes (or maybe even half an hour or so, if more experienced) of basic pranayama practice, to a level that is appropriate and safe. Just as we don't immediately jump to practicing the sixth series, after learning the surya namaskaras, we should of course not start off with practicing advanced pranayama techniques, before some skillfulness of ujjayi breath, bandha, applying dristi, and focusing inwardly, is gained. And for most people doing at least the primary series with some level of proficiency is an appropriate minimal prerequisite. This is the recommendation, and I think it is wise. In later days, Pattabhi Jois changed the timing of when to start practicing pranayama, to third series — most likely also not for stupid reasons. You are less likely to be in over your head (with the advanced techniques of pranayama). You will probably have the devotion, resolve, endurance etc, necessary to stick with the practice, and by then it is probably about time that you seriously/separately start practice the next limb of Ashtanga... If anyone wishes to try pranayama practice earlier, than the traditional recommendation, who can stop them? The air is free, and all one needs is a place to sit. I believe David Swenson once said that we haven't lost anyone, yet... (not saying that David Swenson teaches pranayama hazardously). At worst, they will soon realize their error, and at best they will benefit on all levels of practice. «In the Yoga Vasista;, Vasista tells Rama, " The prana is indistinguishably united with the mind. In fact, the consciousness that tends toward thinking, on account of the movement of prana, is known as the mind. Movement of thought in the mind arises from movement of prana; and movement of prana arises because of movement of thought in consciousness. They form a cycle of mutual dependence, like waves and movements of currents in water. " ² One cannot speak of vinyasa, or movement of the mind-body without also describing the movement of breath, as they are essentially interdependent. Most people associate vinyasa with the movement of linking postures together; however, there are other ways of understanding it. Vinyasa also refers to the movements of thought (citta vritti), movements within a breath cycle (prana vayuu), and cyclical movement within the circulatory, respiratory, and immune systems. We all know that some steadiness of breathing brings about steadiness in the mind-body. Vasista continues, .... the mind is caused by the movements of prana; and hence by stilling of prana; the mind becomes still.... The movement of mind and prana becomes still when desire (in the form of clinging) comes to an end in one's own heart. ... [T]he movement of prana is also stilled by the effortless practice of breathing, without strain. This also occurs when you bring the end of an exhale (as retention) to a standstill for longer and longer periods of time.³ Vasista instructs Rama in breathing practice in order to demonstrate how perception of the world is continually influenced by one's state of mind and body. Stilling the tendency toward clining, conceptualizating, and reacting to the world comes about through correct breathing. Breathing without effort is the key to stilling the mind. Stilling the mind allows the habits of thought to recede and the world to appear immediately, without the obstacles of concepts getting in the way of direct experience.» [p. 149-150, The Inner Tradition of Yoga: A Guide to Yoga Philosophy for the Contemporary Practitioner (2008), by Michael Stone] [---] «Unless the limb of asana practice is not explored to its depth—meaning looking into the actions not just of body but also mind, breath, and energetic flow—we won't penetrate fully the yoga of asana. Don't be caught in the superficial geometry of yoga postures without tending to and tuning in to the quality of the gaze, the spreading of the breath, the pauses at the end and beginning of every breath cycle, and the diaphragmatic action of the bandhas, as these internal forms of alignment draw the mind into concentration and insight, without which the mind remains at the periphery of yoga asana.» [ibid. p. 152, Michael Stone] Qvintus ashtangayoga , " rowenakirk " <rowena28 wrote: > > >Guruji warned explicitly against inexperienced practitioners practicing other forms of Pranayama without the guidance of a guru due to it potentially being harmful. I do not know what he is referring to specifically but he is my guru and i trust his words implicitly. > > This is the sort of mentality that bothers me -- blind trust w/o explanation. WHY is it harmful? One could potentially hyperventilate, and change the O2/CO2 ratio in the bloodstream with certain ways of breathing but, what else? Are they implying that you can trigger an arrhythmia? Questions about why any physical practice is harmful need to be answered with science, not smoke & mirrors. If there is a concrete reason, explain it. There may very well be one, but " Because I said so " is not an acceptable answer for a 5 year old, let alone an adult. > > Amanda > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 15, 2010 Just to correct a minor misquote/misspelling: " conceptualizating " should be _conceptualizing_ -- happened because I was about to write conceptualization... and then failed to correct it correctly. ashtangayoga , qvintus_aka_panchama <no_reply wrote: > > There are pranayama techniques that when not practiced safely could > cause problems, both physically and mentally. From the little knowledge > that I have gathered, that is what all experienced teachers warn us > about. Trusting more experienced people is generally a good thing, and > so is explaining why. > > As a former diver, I know that too much oxygen, venting out all the > carbon dioxide, can be lethal, i.e. in rare cases of extreme > hyperventilation, because it turns off your impulse to breathe, which is > governed by the CO2 level; and by the time your impulse to breathe kicks > in again, you could already be unconscious... > > And depriving the brain of oxygen can also be unhealthy, even when done > only by holding your breath by shear will power. Breath retention > (kumbhaka) should only be performed without strain, and in the process > of stilling the mind, reducing the heart rate, etc. > > However, there are of course more basic and simple pranayama techniques, > that could (and should) be practiced even by a beginner. In Ashtanga > Yoga, the first one is called Ujjayi breath, as I am sure everyone here > knows... And thus, about when to start practicing pranayama separately > from asana, is of course the choice of the individual > practitioner/student, as much as the choice of the teacher. I think, > there is nothing wrong with students arriving early to the shala, and > starting their practice with a few minutes (or maybe even half an hour > or so, if more experienced) of basic pranayama practice, to a level that > is appropriate and safe. Just as we don't immediately jump to practicing > the sixth series, after learning the surya namaskaras, we should of > course not start off with practicing advanced pranayama techniques, > before some skillfulness of ujjayi breath, bandha, applying dristi, and > focusing inwardly, is gained. And for most people doing at least the > primary series with some level of proficiency is an appropriate minimal > prerequisite. This is the recommendation, and I think it is wise. In > later days, Pattabhi Jois changed the timing of when to start practicing > pranayama, to third series — most likely also not for stupid > reasons. You are less likely to be in over your head (with the advanced > techniques of pranayama). You will probably have the devotion, resolve, > endurance etc, necessary to stick with the practice, and by then it is > probably about time that you seriously/separately start practice the > next limb of Ashtanga... > > If anyone wishes to try pranayama practice earlier, than the traditional > recommendation, who can stop them? The air is free, and all one needs is > a place to sit. I believe David Swenson once said that we haven't lost > anyone, yet... (not saying that David Swenson teaches pranayama > hazardously). At worst, they will soon realize their error, and at best > they will benefit on all levels of practice. > > «In the Yoga Vasista;, Vasista tells Rama, > > " The prana is indistinguishably united with the mind. In fact, the > consciousness that tends toward thinking, on account of the movement of > prana, is known as the mind. Movement of thought in the mind arises from > movement of prana; and movement of prana arises because of movement of > thought in consciousness. They form a cycle of mutual dependence, like > waves and movements of currents in water. " ² > > One cannot speak of vinyasa, or movement of the mind-body without also > describing the movement of breath, as they are essentially > interdependent. Most people associate vinyasa with the movement of > linking postures together; however, there are other ways of > understanding it. Vinyasa also refers to the movements of thought (citta > vritti), movements within a breath cycle (prana vayuu), and cyclical > movement within the circulatory, respiratory, and immune systems. > We all know that some steadiness of breathing brings about steadiness in > the mind-body. Vasista continues, > > ... the mind is caused by the movements of prana; and hence by stilling > of prana; the mind becomes still.... The movement of mind and prana > becomes still when desire (in the form of clinging) comes to an end in > one's own heart. ... [T]he movement of prana is also stilled by the > effortless practice of breathing, without strain. This also occurs when > you bring the end of an exhale (as retention) to a standstill for longer > and longer periods of time.³ > > Vasista instructs Rama in breathing practice in order to demonstrate how > perception of the world is continually influenced by one's state of mind > and body. Stilling the tendency toward clining, conceptualizating, and > reacting to the world comes about through correct breathing. Breathing > without effort is the key to stilling the mind. Stilling the mind allows > the habits of thought to recede and the world to appear immediately, > without the obstacles of concepts getting in the way of direct > experience.» [p. 149-150, The Inner Tradition of Yoga: A Guide to > Yoga Philosophy for the Contemporary Practitioner (2008), by Michael > Stone] > > [---] > > «Unless the limb of asana practice is not explored to its > depth—meaning looking into the actions not just of body but also > mind, breath, and energetic flow—we won't penetrate fully the yoga > of asana. Don't be caught in the superficial geometry of yoga postures > without tending to and tuning in to the quality of the gaze, the > spreading of the breath, the pauses at the end and beginning of every > breath cycle, and the diaphragmatic action of the bandhas, as these > internal forms of alignment draw the mind into concentration and > insight, without which the mind remains at the periphery of yoga > asana.» [ibid. p. 152, Michael Stone] > > Qvintus > > > > ashtangayoga , " rowenakirk " <rowena28@> wrote: > > > > >Guruji warned explicitly against inexperienced practitioners > practicing other forms of Pranayama without the guidance of a guru due > to it potentially being harmful. I do not know what he is referring to > specifically but he is my guru and i trust his words implicitly. > > > > This is the sort of mentality that bothers me -- blind trust w/o > explanation. WHY is it harmful? One could potentially hyperventilate, > and change the O2/CO2 ratio in the bloodstream with certain ways of > breathing but, what else? Are they implying that you can trigger an > arrhythmia? Questions about why any physical practice is harmful need > to be answered with science, not smoke & mirrors. If there is a > concrete reason, explain it. There may very well be one, but " Because I > said so " is not an acceptable answer for a 5 year old, let alone an > adult. > > > > Amanda > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 16, 2010 keep up your practice of self-observation and pranayama will find you. naturally. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 23, 2010 Read this: http://www.yogajournal.com/practice/673?page=2 ashtangayoga , " rowenakirk " <rowena28 wrote: > > >Guruji warned explicitly against inexperienced practitioners practicing other forms of Pranayama without the guidance of a guru due to it potentially being harmful. I do not know what he is referring to specifically but he is my guru and i trust his words implicitly. > > This is the sort of mentality that bothers me -- blind trust w/o explanation. WHY is it harmful? One could potentially hyperventilate, and change the O2/CO2 ratio in the bloodstream with certain ways of breathing but, what else? Are they implying that you can trigger an arrhythmia? Questions about why any physical practice is harmful need to be answered with science, not smoke & mirrors. If there is a concrete reason, explain it. There may very well be one, but " Because I said so " is not an acceptable answer for a 5 year old, let alone an adult. > > Amanda > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
