Guest guest Report post Posted December 12, 2009 I thought Tim Miller and Richard Freeman were considered to be certified. They are at least registered. I thought I was seeing work shops for them on the official Ashtanga site. Shanna Small Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 13, 2009 Yes, they have been certfified by Guruji, a long time ago --- On Sat, 12/12/09, shanna small <lashannasmall wrote: shanna small <lashannasmall ashtanga yoga re: certification ashtangayoga Saturday, 12 December, 2009, 11:59 Â I thought Tim Miller and Richard Freeman were considered to be certified. They are at least registered. I thought I was seeing work shops for them on the official Ashtanga site. Shanna Small Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 15, 2009 I've been following this thread for some time. In light of the fact that this group is devoted to Ashtanga yoga I am quite surprised that so many in the group are not familiar with the huge difference between Certification or Authorization that comes from Mysore and all other yoga certifications that emininate from various US based yoga organizations. These 200 hr or 500 hour or other certifications are not related to the Ashtanga authorization or certification to teach. They may be, and often are, very helpful and effective as a means for yoga teachers to learn how to teach hatha yoga in general, but have nothing to do with Ashtanga certification. So, nothing against these local " certifications " but let's be clear about what they are and what they are not. Tim Miller and the other senior Astanaga teachers regularly offer teacher training(s) and certainly a devoted Ashtangi who trains under one of them for several years is likely very qualified to teach--but that person is not " certified or authorized " to teach Ashtanga. My wife has been practicing yoga for more than 15 years and Ashtanga for the past 10 years. She has taken numerous teachers trainings from Tim and other senior teachers, (they intentionally call their workshops " teacher training " as opposed to teacher certification or authorization. Her main teacher is " authorized " , and she does the complete second series without modification. We don't have an authorized teacher at our studio so my wife teaches regularly --but she would never claim to be " certified " and no one who is really familiar with the Ashtanaga tradition should get these " certifications " confused.........Ed > Yes, they have been certfified by Guruji, a long time ago > > --- On Sat, 12/12/09, shanna small <lashannasmall wrote: > > > I thought Tim Miller and Richard Freeman were considered to be certified. They are at least registered. I thought I was seeing work shops for them on the official Ashtanga site. > Shanna Small > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 15, 2009 I think most Ashtangis understand those delineations. The conversation here, as I read it, started from a post about becoming a yoga teacher and loving Ashtanga. Because of Yoga Alliance, many are stuck on the word 'ceritifed'. YA, and most studios, just define it differently than we do in Ashtanga. And, the word 'certified' seems to bring up a lot for Ashtangis. Those who don't choose to strive for authorization or certification want to be taken just as seriously as teachers and respected as such. Thank you for your post. I wanted to say something similar, but you said it so well. ashtangayoga , " eddie1339 " <trigeeked wrote: > > I've been following this thread for some time. In light of the fact that this group is devoted to Ashtanga yoga I am quite surprised that so many in the group are not familiar with the huge difference between Certification or Authorization that comes from Mysore and all other yoga certifications that emininate from various US based yoga organizations. These 200 hr or 500 hour or other certifications are not related to the Ashtanga authorization or certification to teach. They may be, and often are, very helpful and effective as a means for yoga teachers to learn how to teach hatha yoga in general, but have nothing to do with Ashtanga certification. So, nothing against these local " certifications " but let's be clear about what they are and what they are not. > > Tim Miller and the other senior Astanaga teachers regularly offer teacher training(s) and certainly a devoted Ashtangi who trains under one of them for several years is likely very qualified to teach--but that person is not " certified or authorized " to teach Ashtanga. > > My wife has been practicing yoga for more than 15 years and Ashtanga for the past 10 years. She has taken numerous teachers trainings from Tim and other senior teachers, (they intentionally call their workshops " teacher training " as opposed to teacher certification or authorization. Her main teacher is " authorized " , and she does the complete second series without modification. We don't have an authorized teacher at our studio so my wife teaches regularly --but she would never claim to be " certified " and no one who is really familiar with the Ashtanaga tradition should get these " certifications " confused.........Ed > > > > Yes, they have been certfified by Guruji, a long time ago > > > > --- On Sat, 12/12/09, shanna small <lashannasmall@> wrote: > > > > > > I thought Tim Miller and Richard Freeman were considered to be certified. They are at least registered. I thought I was seeing work shops for them on the official Ashtanga site. > > Shanna Small > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 15, 2009 The human mind is a marvel of nature.... Always sorting and organizing and boxing - one might think all of reality could be reduced to a brain-full of handy constructs! Certified, authorized or sanitized, the value of the teacher is not in his paperwork. D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 15, 2009 Hi Ed... I started this Topic. With kind of a simple question. " Please comment: Do you feel that Ashtanga Teachers should be able to get Certified? As long as it is taught to them by a Certfied Teacher. " As you can see there is alot of confusion. I like this Board, for that reason... the clarification of this topic, is one that I feel needed to be brought forward. Certified... Authorized... I guess we all know who is on the " List " As long as we get the Knowledge we seek, does it really matter what you Label it... ? " Teacher Training " Ashtanga Intensive " If Masters Like Manju Jois, Tim Miller, David Swenson, Nancy Gilgoff, Richard Freeman and many others (I bow to thier Lotus Feet, Namaste') are any where near my Home. I will seek them for the wisdom they transmit from thier own Path of learning. A path that begins with Patangali, and continues through people like your Wife... ;-) I mentioned that Certification is an external measure of confidence. To support the internal confidence of the teacher to teach. Safely... " We don't have an authorized teacher at our studio so my wife teaches regularly --but she would never claim to be " certified " Not certified... but Teaching Ashtanga Yoga... just the same. So... Do you feel that Ashtanga Teachers should be able to get Certified? As long as it is taught to them by a Certfied Teacher. " Do I put you down for a Yes... Lol ;-) Blessings to You and your wife, Thank you for The gifts you give each day. The Gift of the Ashtanga Mala are priceless. Jaya.. Steven PS>> Comming up to New England any time soon? Thirsty Yogi here... :-) ashtangayoga , " eddie1339 " <trigeeked wrote: > > I've been following this thread for some time. In light of the fact that this group is devoted to Ashtanga yoga I am quite surprised that so many in the group are not familiar with the huge difference between Certification or Authorization that comes from Mysore and all other yoga certifications that emininate from various US based yoga organizations. These 200 hr or 500 hour or other certifications are not related to the Ashtanga authorization or certification to teach. They may be, and often are, very helpful and effective as a means for yoga teachers to learn how to teach hatha yoga in general, but have nothing to do with Ashtanga certification. So, nothing against these local " certifications " but let's be clear about what they are and what they are not. > > Tim Miller and the other senior Astanaga teachers regularly offer teacher training(s) and certainly a devoted Ashtangi who trains under one of them for several years is likely very qualified to teach--but that person is not " certified or authorized " to teach Ashtanga. > > My wife has been practicing yoga for more than 15 years and Ashtanga for the past 10 years. She has taken numerous teachers trainings from Tim and other senior teachers, (they intentionally call their workshops " teacher training " as opposed to teacher certification or authorization. Her main teacher is " authorized " , and she does the complete second series without modification. We don't have an authorized teacher at our studio so my wife teaches regularly --but she would never claim to be " certified " and no one who is really familiar with the Ashtanaga tradition should get these " certifications " confused.........Ed > > > > Yes, they have been certfified by Guruji, a long time ago > > > > --- On Sat, 12/12/09, shanna small <lashannasmall@> wrote: > > > > > > I thought Tim Miller and Richard Freeman were considered to be certified. They are at least registered. I thought I was seeing work shops for them on the official Ashtanga site. > > Shanna Small > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 15, 2009 quite smug very ashtangisnob --- On Mon, 12/14/09, eddie1339 <trigeeked wrote: eddie1339 <trigeeked ashtanga yoga Re: certification ashtangayoga Monday, December 14, 2009, 6:38 PM Â I've been following this thread for some time. In light of the fact that this group is devoted to Ashtanga yoga I am quite surprised that so many in the group are not familiar with the huge difference between Certification or Authorization that comes from Mysore and all other yoga certifications that emininate from various US based yoga organizations. These 200 hr or 500 hour or other certifications are not related to the Ashtanga authorization or certification to teach. They may be, and often are, very helpful and effective as a means for yoga teachers to learn how to teach hatha yoga in general, but have nothing to do with Ashtanga certification. So, nothing against these local " certifications " but let's be clear about what they are and what they are not. Tim Miller and the other senior Astanaga teachers regularly offer teacher training(s) and certainly a devoted Ashtangi who trains under one of them for several years is likely very qualified to teach--but that person is not " certified or authorized " to teach Ashtanga. My wife has been practicing yoga for more than 15 years and Ashtanga for the past 10 years. She has taken numerous teachers trainings from Tim and other senior teachers, (they intentionally call their workshops " teacher training " as opposed to teacher certification or authorization. Her main teacher is " authorized " , and she does the complete second series without modification. We don't have an authorized teacher at our studio so my wife teaches regularly --but she would never claim to be " certified " and no one who is really familiar with the Ashtanaga tradition should get these " certifications " confused.... ......Ed > Yes, they have been certfified by Guruji, a long time ago > > --- On Sat, 12/12/09, shanna small <lashannasmall@ ...> wrote: > > > I thought Tim Miller and Richard Freeman were considered to be certified. They are at least registered. I thought I was seeing work shops for them on the official Ashtanga site. > Shanna Small > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 15, 2009 hi everybody, with regards to teacher authorization/certification. My opinion on this matter is summarized in the sanskrit word. " Parampara " . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parampara My answer to the original question is based on this principle. My view is the closer to the source the better. I would also like to suggest a podcast in which Certified teacher Kino Macgregor talks about her own Authorization and Certification by Guruji. The podcast is at: http://www.miamilifecenter.com/index.php?page=podcasts It is the " Chicago Sunday Yoga Talk Fall 09 Part 1 True Power Krishnamacharya " podcast and Kino starts to talk about this subject at 16:30. Namaste Chris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 16, 2009 I think 'ashtangi snob' is a bit harsh, but this blunt comment does demonstrate the depth of feeling on both sides - on one hand, those who feel that only 'certification' and 'authorisation' from mysore are valid (even though no real teacher training is given as part of that process, at least until recently) and on the other side those who think that the individual teacher and their knowledge and experience is equally valid, modifications are OK and some variation in the sequence does not mean that the sky will fall in. There are 'ashtanga nazis' or 'ashtanga police' everywhere, but there are also lovely people who are more pragmatic, wise and accepting. I think you can gather which side of the debate I am on. ashtangayoga , shannon smith <yogalu wrote: > > > > quite smug very ashtangisnob > > > --- On Mon, 12/14/09, eddie1339 <trigeeked wrote: > > eddie1339 <trigeeked > ashtanga yoga Re: certification > ashtangayoga > Monday, December 14, 2009, 6:38 PM > Â > > > I've been following this thread for some time. In light of the fact that this group is devoted to Ashtanga yoga I am quite surprised that so many in the group are not familiar with the huge difference between Certification or Authorization that comes from Mysore and all other yoga certifications that emininate from various US based yoga organizations. These 200 hr or 500 hour or other certifications are not related to the Ashtanga authorization or certification to teach. They may be, and often are, very helpful and effective as a means for yoga teachers to learn how to teach hatha yoga in general, but have nothing to do with Ashtanga certification. So, nothing against these local " certifications " but let's be clear about what they are and what they are not. > > > > Tim Miller and the other senior Astanaga teachers regularly offer teacher training(s) and certainly a devoted Ashtangi who trains under one of them for several years is likely very qualified to teach--but that person is not " certified or authorized " to teach Ashtanga. > > > > My wife has been practicing yoga for more than 15 years and Ashtanga for the past 10 years. She has taken numerous teachers trainings from Tim and other senior teachers, (they intentionally call their workshops " teacher training " as opposed to teacher certification or authorization. Her main teacher is " authorized " , and she does the complete second series without modification. We don't have an authorized teacher at our studio so my wife teaches regularly --but she would never claim to be " certified " and no one who is really familiar with the Ashtanaga tradition should get these " certifications " confused.... ......Ed > > > > > Yes, they have been certfified by Guruji, a long time ago > > > > > > --- On Sat, 12/12/09, shanna small <lashannasmall@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I thought Tim Miller and Richard Freeman were considered to be certified. They are at least registered. I thought I was seeing work shops for them on the official Ashtanga site. > > > Shanna Small > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 16, 2009 Wise and accepting sounds quite pleasant, Annie! It would seem we have managed to frame the situation into at least two camps - I wonder if there was really even one to begin with. Funny how these traditions grow from teacher-and-pupil to Complex System. D On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:28 AM, AnnieG <annie wrote I think 'ashtangi snob' is a bit harsh, but this blunt comment does demonstrate the depth of feeling on both sides - on one hand, those who feel that only 'certification' and 'authorisation' from mysore are valid (even though no real teacher training is given as part of that process, at least until recently) and on the other side those who think that the individual teacher and their knowledge and experience is equally valid, modifications are OK and some variation in the sequence does not mean that the sky will fall in. There are 'ashtanga nazis' or 'ashtanga police' everywhere, but there are also lovely people who are more pragmatic, wise and accepting. I think you can gather which side of the debate I am on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 17, 2009 ashtangayoga , " Steven " <stevenlarock wrote: > > Hi Ed... > I started this Topic. With kind of a simple question. > > " Please comment: Do you feel that Ashtanga Teachers should be able to get Certified? As long as it is taught to them by a Certfied Teacher. " Steven, I've liked the current system of authorization and certification under Guruji because, although not perfect, it provided significant quality control. (Compared to how its done in other yoga styles) Now that Guruji has passed we have Sharath along with a number of senior teachers (those who are certified) If the current system is to be modified possibly Certified teachers could be permitted to designate " authorized " teachers, but certification should still come from Mysore. One of the many good things about Ashtanga is that, unlike many other hatha yoga disciplines, we haven't cheapened the term " certified teacher " . I see advertisements promising certification after a week or two of training with no requirement that the person have a seriously developed practice. Bikram is a good example, wherein a large number of teachers essentially read a script, do not do adjustments, and often are unfamiliar with basic anatomy or physiology. In my city we have a wonderful sports center that offers many yoga classes. There are about 10 yoga teachers. Three or four are well qualified, another three or four are OK, and four are remarkably unqualified--but all have been " certified " by someone. Most of the students are new to yoga so assume all the teachers know what they are doing. So the problem is that when someone outside of Ashtanga says he or she is certified you don't know if that designation is meaningful--I wouldn't want to replicate that in Ashtanga.........ed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 17, 2009 Rather an ashtanga-centric viewpoint. Iyengar yoga certification, for example, says a lot about the teacher's training. As stated, for example, on www.iynaus.org Every Certified Iyengar Teacher has passed at least two rigorous, standardized assessments<http://www.iynaus.org/teach/assessment>. Some have passed many more: Assessment is a rigorous, standardized testing process, which includes an observed practice of asanas and pranayamas, a written exam that includes anatomy and yogic philosophy, and a demonstration of teaching skills in which candidates teach students a predetermined sequence of asanas. Having passed their initial assessment<http://www.iynaus.org/teach/assessment/register.php>, teachers may identify themselves as Teachers-in-Training in the Iyengar Method. Only teachers who have passed both the Teacher-in-Training and Introductory assessments are entitled to identify themselves as Certified Teachers and to use the Certification Mark. Teachers not certified in the Iyengar method should not use the name Iyengar. All are asked to respect this. Teachers-in-Training are required within two years to take the Introductory assessment. Passing further certification levels entitles teachers to teach special populations and therapeutic yoga, and to be mentors and assessors. There are five degrees of teacher certification: Introductory, Intermediate Junior, Intermediate Senior, Advanced Junior and Advanced Senior.<http://www.iynaus.org/teach/certification/levels.php> So there are non-ashtanga systems where " certification " means something. On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 11:02 PM, eddie1339 <trigeeked wrote: > > > > > ashtangayoga <ashtangayoga%40>, > " Steven " <stevenlarock wrote: > > > > Hi Ed... > > I started this Topic. With kind of a simple question. > > > > " Please comment: Do you feel that Ashtanga Teachers should be able to get > Certified? As long as it is taught to them by a Certfied Teacher. " > > Steven, > > I've liked the current system of authorization and certification under > Guruji because, although not perfect, it provided significant quality > control. (Compared to how its done in other yoga styles) Now that Guruji has > passed we have Sharath along with a number of senior teachers (those who are > certified) If the current system is to be modified possibly Certified > teachers could be permitted to designate " authorized " teachers, but > certification should still come from Mysore. > > One of the many good things about Ashtanga is that, unlike many other hatha > yoga disciplines, we haven't cheapened the term " certified teacher " . I see > advertisements promising certification after a week or two of training with > no requirement that the person have a seriously developed practice. Bikram > is a good example, wherein a large number of teachers essentially read a > script, do not do adjustments, and often are unfamiliar with basic anatomy > or physiology. In my city we have a wonderful sports center that offers many > yoga classes. There are about 10 yoga teachers. Three or four are well > qualified, another three or four are OK, and four are remarkably > unqualified--but all have been " certified " by someone. Most of the students > are new to yoga so assume all the teachers know what they are doing. So the > problem is that when someone outside of Ashtanga says he or she is certified > you don't know if that designation is meaningful--I wouldn't want to > replicate that in Ashtanga.........ed > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 18, 2009 Thank you for this, Tom. D On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 2:14 PM, Tom Hunter <thunter01 wrote: Rather an ashtanga-centric viewpoint. Iyengar yoga certification, for example, says a lot about the teacher's training. As stated, for example, on www.iynaus.org Every Certified Iyengar Teacher has passed at least two rigorous, standardized assessments<http://www.iynaus.org/teach/assessment>. Some have passed many more: Assessment is a rigorous, standardized testing process, which includes an observed practice of asanas and pranayamas, a written exam that includes anatomy and yogic philosophy, and a demonstration of teaching skills in which candidates teach students a predetermined sequence of asanas. Having passed their initial assessment<http://www.iynaus.org/teach/assessment/register.php>, teachers may identify themselves as Teachers-in-Training in the Iyengar Method. Only teachers who have passed both the Teacher-in-Training and Introductory assessments are entitled to identify themselves as Certified Teachers and to use the Certification Mark. Teachers not certified in the Iyengar method should not use the name Iyengar. All are asked to respect this. Teachers-in-Training are required within two years to take the Introductory assessment. Passing further certification levels entitles teachers to teach special populations and therapeutic yoga, and to be mentors and assessors. There are five degrees of teacher certification: Introductory, Intermediate Junior, Intermediate Senior, Advanced Junior and Advanced Senior.<http://www.iynaus.org/teach/certification/levels.php> So there are non-ashtanga systems where " certification " means something. On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 11:02 PM, eddie1339 <trigeeked<trigeeked%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > ashtangayoga <ashtangayoga%40><ashtangayoga% 40>, > " Steven " <stevenlarock wrote: > > > > Hi Ed... > > I started this Topic. With kind of a simple question. > > > > " Please comment: Do you feel that Ashtanga Teachers should be able to get > Certified? As long as it is taught to them by a Certfied Teacher. " > > Steven, > > I've liked the current system of authorization and certification under > Guruji because, although not perfect, it provided significant quality > control. (Compared to how its done in other yoga styles) Now that Guruji has > passed we have Sharath along with a number of senior teachers (those who are > certified) If the current system is to be modified possibly Certified > teachers could be permitted to designate " authorized " teachers, but > certification should still come from Mysore. > > One of the many good things about Ashtanga is that, unlike many other hatha > yoga disciplines, we haven't cheapened the term " certified teacher " . I see > advertisements promising certification after a week or two of training with > no requirement that the person have a seriously developed practice. Bikram > is a good example, wherein a large number of teachers essentially read a > script, do not do adjustments, and often are unfamiliar with basic anatomy > or physiology. In my city we have a wonderful sports center that offers many > yoga classes. There are about 10 yoga teachers. Three or four are well > qualified, another three or four are OK, and four are remarkably > unqualified--but all have been " certified " by someone. Most of the students > are new to yoga so assume all the teachers know what they are doing. So the > problem is that when someone outside of Ashtanga says he or she is certified > you don't know if that designation is meaningful--I wouldn't want to > replicate that in Ashtanga.........ed > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 18, 2009 Hi Tom... The Iyengar system is just what I am talking about. Astanga has a great need for a Certification process like that. I am glad to have Ed's viewpoint here. I believe that the death of Guruji will bring this topic more to the forefront. Ed Said: " I've liked the current system of authorization and certification under Guruji because, although not perfect, it provided significant quality control. (Compared to how its done in other yoga styles) Now that Guruji has passed we have Sharath along with a number of senior teachers (those who are certified) If the current system is to be modified possibly Certified teachers could be permitted to designate " authorized " teachers. " But let's be real here... " All Certification From Mysore " ... Come on Ed... Let's get away from exclusivity. The " Look at me... I belong to the exclusive Early Morning Class, my mat is in front " attitude. Not a very Yogic attitude to be sure. Nancy Gilgoff isn't in Mysore... I bet she is as qualified to Certify Teachers of this system as Sharat is. As well as other teachers that are Masters of this Humble Practice. With No intended disrespect to Sharat. Oh... I do believe that the Certification should be worth the paper it is written on. I just know that I will Learn. I will teach... this system. Just as many others do. Not Certified to teach. The way it is set up now I have no choice... That I believe is a shame. Ashtanga Yoga deserves to have teacher Certification. I want to be Certified. Instead I will trust my Heart. Maybe that is all I ever really needed anyway... Oh yeah and the 8 limbs... :-) Suryanamaskara A... five times... Stand straight, feet together. tuck your sits bone, arms by your side, center and soften, one... inhale arms up, two... exhale, bend forward touch the floor, hands flat, three... (ETC) Steve " Breath into Your Heart " ashtangayoga , Tom Hunter <thunter01 wrote: > > Rather an ashtanga-centric viewpoint. > > Iyengar yoga certification, for example, says a lot about the teacher's > training. As stated, for example, on www.iynaus.org Every Certified Iyengar > Teacher has passed at least two rigorous, standardized > assessments<http://www.iynaus.org/teach/assessment>. > Some have passed many more: > > Assessment is a rigorous, standardized testing process, which includes an > observed practice of asanas and pranayamas, a written exam that includes > anatomy and yogic philosophy, and a demonstration of teaching skills in > which candidates teach students a predetermined sequence of asanas. > > Having passed their initial > assessment<http://www.iynaus.org/teach/assessment/register.php>, > teachers may identify themselves as Teachers-in-Training in the Iyengar > Method. Only teachers who have passed both the Teacher-in-Training and > Introductory assessments are entitled to identify themselves as Certified > Teachers and to use the Certification Mark. Teachers not certified in the > Iyengar method should not use the name Iyengar. All are asked to respect > this. > > Teachers-in-Training are required within two years to take the Introductory > assessment. Passing further certification levels entitles teachers to teach > special populations and therapeutic yoga, and to be mentors and assessors. > > There are five degrees of teacher certification: Introductory, Intermediate > Junior, Intermediate Senior, Advanced Junior and Advanced > Senior.<http://www.iynaus.org/teach/certification/levels.php> > So there are non-ashtanga systems where " certification " means something. > > > > On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 11:02 PM, eddie1339 <trigeeked wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > ashtangayoga <ashtangayoga%40>, > > " Steven " <stevenlarock@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ed... > > > I started this Topic. With kind of a simple question. > > > > > > " Please comment: Do you feel that Ashtanga Teachers should be able to get > > Certified? As long as it is taught to them by a Certfied Teacher. " > > > > Steven, > > > > I've liked the current system of authorization and certification under > > Guruji because, although not perfect, it provided significant quality > > control. (Compared to how its done in other yoga styles) Now that Guruji has > > passed we have Sharath along with a number of senior teachers (those who are > > certified) If the current system is to be modified possibly Certified > > teachers could be permitted to designate " authorized " teachers, but > > certification should still come from Mysore. > > > > One of the many good things about Ashtanga is that, unlike many other hatha > > yoga disciplines, we haven't cheapened the term " certified teacher " . I see > > advertisements promising certification after a week or two of training with > > no requirement that the person have a seriously developed practice. Bikram > > is a good example, wherein a large number of teachers essentially read a > > script, do not do adjustments, and often are unfamiliar with basic anatomy > > or physiology. In my city we have a wonderful sports center that offers many > > yoga classes. There are about 10 yoga teachers. Three or four are well > > qualified, another three or four are OK, and four are remarkably > > unqualified--but all have been " certified " by someone. Most of the students > > are new to yoga so assume all the teachers know what they are doing. So the > > problem is that when someone outside of Ashtanga says he or she is certified > > you don't know if that designation is meaningful--I wouldn't want to > > replicate that in Ashtanga.........ed > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 18, 2009 Senior Ashtanga yoga teachers such as Manju Jois, Lino Miele and David Williams have already begun authorizing their junior teachers, with the results now published on Ashtanga.com. See their biographies and listings on Ashtanga.com (Italy, Finland, Sweden, Chile, Traveling Teachers sections). Senior teachers feel that it is within their right, as well as a natural evolution of the practice, to be able to pass on the practice to their apprentices and junior teachers in this manner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2009 That is a move in the right direction, but the challenge still is that not everyone has constant access to these teachers. The closest certified teacher to me is 14 hours away. How can I really " apprentice " under her? I love the idea of apprenticeship with the guru. Living among them and taking everything in but is that feasible for modern society? ashtangayoga , " betty_ashtanga " <betty wrote: > > > > Senior Ashtanga yoga teachers such as Manju Jois, Lino Miele and David Williams have already begun authorizing their junior teachers, with the results now published on Ashtanga.com. See their biographies and listings on Ashtanga.com (Italy, Finland, Sweden, Chile, Traveling Teachers sections). Senior teachers feel that it is within their right, as well as a natural evolution of the practice, to be able to pass on the practice to their apprentices and junior teachers in this manner. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 21, 2009 Seems to me there are two issues being mixed up with respect to " certification " . First, certification can refer to your association with a lineage and permission to transmit that lineage; Second, certfication can refer to a statement by some party that you are qualified to teach. The bottom line with a lineage, whether is flower arranging, yoga, or marital arts -- It requires direct person to person transmission from a person with permission to transmit that lineage to the student. This is not about convenience. This is about a long term student teacher relationship that involves a transmission of substantially more than just a sequence and adjustments. If you want to transmit a lineage and be recognized as a person within that lineage with permission to pass it along you have to pay your dues . . . in person. In my case for example with respect to a martial art -- It involved 10 years in japan and visits back with my teachers every year for the following 35 years. If you just care about teaching -- find good people to teach you how to teach. This also, however, may not be convenient -- but there is ample precedent within our culture -- For example -- people spend 4-5 years (or more) in university, often far from their homes, and often at great expense to ultimately become experts and/or teachers in a field. -- Why expect yoga to be any different? -Tom On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 10:14 AM, shanna <lashannasmall wrote: > > > That is a move in the right direction, but the challenge still is that not > everyone has constant access to these teachers. The closest certified > teacher to me is 14 hours away. How can I really " apprentice " under her? I > love the idea of apprenticeship with the guru. Living among them and taking > everything in but is that feasible for modern society? > > ashtangayoga <ashtangayoga%40>, > " betty_ashtanga " <betty wrote: > > > > > > > > Senior Ashtanga yoga teachers such as Manju Jois, Lino Miele and David > Williams have already begun authorizing their junior teachers, with the > results now published on Ashtanga.com. See their biographies and listings on > Ashtanga.com (Italy, Finland, Sweden, Chile, Traveling Teachers sections). > Senior teachers feel that it is within their right, as well as a natural > evolution of the practice, to be able to pass on the practice to their > apprentices and junior teachers in this manner. > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 21, 2009 I agree with the person to person transmission, it is the unclear guidelines that could possibly need addressing. Shanna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 23, 2009 The guidelines are perfectly clear. There is no confusion in them at all. The KPJAYI website says: " You will find here a *list of teachers*<http://www.kpjayi.org/teacher_list.html>who are Authorized and Certified by the K. Pattabhi Jois Ashtanga Yoga Institute (KPJAYI) in Mysore, India. This list constitutes the only official record of teachers approved by the KPJAYI. Please note that the KPJAYI is the only authority able to authorize or certify individuals to teach the ashtanga yoga method as taught by Sri K. Pattabhi Jois and R. Sharath. There are no teacher training programs approved by this Institute under any name (e.g., Ashtanga Teacher Intensive); teachers that are listed here are experienced practitioners and dedicated students who have shown a considerable degree of proficiency and appreciation of ashtanga yoga in its traditional form and who continue to study regularly at the KPJAYI. Teachers listed here are required to teach the method as it is taught by Sri K. Pattabhi Jois and R. Sharath at the KPJAYI in Mysore, India. They should maintain a yoga room or shala to allow for daily, preferably morning, Mysore-style practice and should honor Saturdays and the full/new moon days as rest days. In order to become a teacher of ashtanga yoga the aspirant should demonstrate an appropriate attitude, devotion towards the practice, and a respect for the tradition of parampara, the succession of teacher and disciple. These qualities can only be determined on an individual basis by the directors of the Institute. The K. Pattabhi Jois Ashtanga Yoga Institute is dedicated to the education of yoga practitioners. Practitioners should come with the sole purpose of studying the tradition from its source. Students traveling to Mysore should not come with the expectation of obtaining Authorized or Certified status, nor should they claim such as soon as they meet the minimum requirements. Teaching authorizations and certifications are only *offered* by the directors of the Institute, they cannot be requested. " Namaste C. x On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Shanna <lashannasmall wrote: > > > I agree with the person to person transmission, it is the unclear > guidelines that could possibly need addressing. > > Shanna > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 23, 2009 I think this is western notions of certification and accreditation coming up against the reality of the way lineages are transmitted. Traditionally -- there are no guidelines. Once again -- its about relationships. The teacher decides (often only after 10-20 years) that the student understands the art, has the experience, skills, personality, etc. to pass the knowledge on, and then gives the student his blessing to teach. Honestly - I think its all much ado about nothing: If you want to teach now -- teach now (students will come or they won't). If you want to be taught how to teach, find someone to provide such instruction. If you want to be a member of a lineage with the blessings/imprimatur to pass that lineage on, go study with the appropriate master. If you are looking for a piece of paper you can show to Joe's gym down the road that says you are qualified to teach ashtanga so you can make a living at it, I think the energy is misplaced. --That is about remuneration and not about practice. If you really need to do it that way -- Print yourself up a nice diploma using photoshop and show it to Joe and get the job. If you turn out to be a good teacher (and remember from a studio's point of view -- thats measured by the number of students/dollars you bring in, not the quality of teaching)-- he's not going to later fire you because the diploma is " fake " . After all, its as meaningful as a yoga alliance (and many other) certifications. On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 8:13 AM, Shanna <lashannasmall wrote: > > > I agree with the person to person transmission, it is the unclear > guidelines that could possibly need addressing. > > Shanna > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 24, 2009 And thus we get to the crux, Tom. Thank you. If my friend comes to me with a complaint that getting up out of chairs isn't as easy as it once was and I teach her a couple of asanas that help, I have had a valid teacher-pupil relationship. Even if those few asanas represented the sum total of my knowledge about Yoga. If I desire, I can then certify myself to teach Darrell's Chair-Standing Series or I can found a lineage around it. Certification is a sign, a symbol that points *at* something. It is the something that is important. We speak of the need to keep Ashtanga pure, the need for a direct lineage, because we begin to focus more on the symbol than on the something. The tradition has value, of course, but remember that it may or may not be of value to *me*. If I am after an income-producing endeavor, and I have received many benefits from Yoga personally, perhaps I can share these benefits with others *and* make a living from doing so. Exploring this, two questions arise immediately for me: am I qualified to do this and will others give me money for doing it? A certification might help me answer both those questions, but it does not guarantee success. My culture insists on credentials, though, and so, since I grew up in that atmosphere, a part of my own self-confidence may be vested in obtaining some. Certainly having a certificate on the wall indicates something, but a wise business person will focus more on the product than on the wall. Somebody mentioned Yoga Alliance and Hatha Yoga credentials. This is a Westernized approach that can still bring value to others, and is more directed toward this type of goal. Should I ever decide to teach, I will likely not label my product Ashtanga because I will likely never get to Mysore or practice for years under qualified tutelage. However, FWIW, I will also not be too disappointed with this because I am not as interested in the label as I am in the results. D On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 1:44 PM, Tom Hunter <thunter01 wrote: > > > I think this is western notions of certification and accreditation coming > up > against the reality of the way lineages are transmitted. > > Traditionally -- there are no guidelines. Once again -- its about > relationships. The teacher decides (often only after 10-20 years) that the > student understands the art, has the experience, skills, personality, etc. > to pass the knowledge on, and then gives the student his blessing to teach. > > Honestly - I think its all much ado about nothing: > > If you want to teach now -- teach now (students will come or they won't). > If you want to be taught how to teach, find someone to provide such > instruction. > > If you want to be a member of a lineage with the blessings/imprimatur to > pass that lineage on, go study with the appropriate master. > > If you are looking for a piece of paper you can show to Joe's gym down the > road that says you are qualified to teach ashtanga so you can make a living > at it, I think the energy is misplaced. --That is about remuneration and > not about practice. If you really need to do it that way -- Print yourself > up a nice diploma using photoshop and show it to Joe and get the job. If > you turn out to be a good teacher (and remember from a studio's point of > view -- thats measured by the number of students/dollars you bring in, not > the quality of teaching)-- he's not going to later fire you because the > diploma is " fake " . After all, its as meaningful as a yoga alliance (and > many other) certifications. > > On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 8:13 AM, Shanna <lashannasmall<lashannasmall%40>> > wrote: > > > > > > > I agree with the person to person transmission, it is the unclear > > guidelines that could possibly need addressing. > > > > Shanna > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 25, 2009 Darrell and Tom all I can say is BRAVO!!! ________________ Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger./webmessengerpromo.php Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 23, 2010 I think both being respectful of the tradition and parampara of Krishnamacharya, Jois, Sharath R., and also considering the importance of proper teacher training and aptness of the individual teacher, have its merits - not just one or the other. Ideally they could and should go hand in hand, but if the first fails and does not produce enough good teachers (or maybe even some not so good), then the second (quality of the teachings) will eventually prove to be of a lot greater importance than the first (official parampara of SKPAYI). And then the most popular lineage(s) of Ashtanga will take some detours away from Mysore, I guess. So, residing in a little corner of the Ashtanga world (thereby not having a good overview and connections with prominent Ashtangis), and still judging from this discussion, I'm asking myself: Is the Ashtanga community falling apart? Something I obviously would not like to see, but if so, then why? And what, if anything, can we do about it? /Qvintus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 23, 2010 " Falling apart " is perhaps too negative. It is the nature of all lineages to bifurcate, trifurcate, etc. For example, today we view iyengar, ashtanga, and vinny yoga as separate traditions, yet the all derive from the Krishnamacharya lineage -- Is this an example of Krishnamacharya yoga falling apart? -- I think not -- it's a typical example of people responding to, emphasizing, and elaborating particular aspects of the teaching they received. Sometimes the different emphases become dramatic enough that we call them separate lineages. BTW - Often the differences in emphasis are a reflection of the time in their teachers life when they receieved their teaching -- there's no doubt, for example, that Krishnamacharya's teaching changed over his life as he gained experience and learned something about aging. ashtangayoga [ashtangayoga ] On Behalf Of qe_u Saturday, January 23, 2010 9:55 AM ashtangayoga ashtanga yoga Re: certification I think both being respectful of the tradition and parampara of Krishnamacharya, Jois, Sharath R., and also considering the importance of proper teacher training and aptness of the individual teacher, have its merits - not just one or the other. Ideally they could and should go hand in hand, but if the first fails and does not produce enough good teachers (or maybe even some not so good), then the second (quality of the teachings) will eventually prove to be of a lot greater importance than the first (official parampara of SKPAYI). And then the most popular lineage(s) of Ashtanga will take some detours away from Mysore, I guess. So, residing in a little corner of the Ashtanga world (thereby not having a good overview and connections with prominent Ashtangis), and still judging from this discussion, I'm asking myself: Is the Ashtanga community falling apart? Something I obviously would not like to see, but if so, then why? And what, if anything, can we do about it? /Qvintus __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4800 (20100123) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 24, 2010 Excellent & very well-said by Tom Amy On 1/24/10 6:11 AM, " Tom Hunter " <thunter01 wrote: > > > > > > " Falling apart " is perhaps too negative. It is the nature of all lineages > to bifurcate, trifurcate, etc. > > For example, today we view iyengar, ashtanga, and vinny yoga as separate > traditions, yet the all derive from the Krishnamacharya lineage -- Is this > an example of Krishnamacharya yoga falling apart? -- I think not -- it's a > typical example of people responding to, emphasizing, and elaborating > particular aspects of the teaching they received. Sometimes the different > emphases become dramatic enough that we call them separate lineages. BTW - > Often the differences in emphasis are a reflection of the time in their > teachers life when they receieved their teaching -- there's no doubt, for > example, that Krishnamacharya's teaching changed over his life as he gained > experience and learned something about aging. > > ashtangayoga <ashtangayoga%40> > [ashtangayoga <ashtangayoga%40> ] > On > Behalf Of qe_u > Saturday, January 23, 2010 9:55 AM > ashtangayoga <ashtangayoga%40> > ashtanga yoga Re: certification > > I think both being respectful of the tradition and parampara of > Krishnamacharya, Jois, Sharath R., and also considering the importance of > proper teacher training and aptness of the individual teacher, have its > merits - not just one or the other. Ideally they could and should go hand in > hand, but if the first fails and does not produce enough good teachers (or > maybe even some not so good), then the second (quality of the teachings) > will eventually prove to be of a lot greater importance than the first > (official parampara of SKPAYI). And then the most popular lineage(s) of > Ashtanga will take some detours away from Mysore, I guess. > > So, residing in a little corner of the Ashtanga world (thereby not having a > good overview and connections with prominent Ashtangis), and still judging > from this discussion, I'm asking myself: Is the Ashtanga community falling > apart? Something I obviously would not like to see, but if so, then why? And > what, if anything, can we do about it? > > /Qvintus > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4800 (20100123) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
