Guest guest Report post Posted January 5, 2010 Sat Nam, I laughed when i read Guru Fatha Singh's post, Message #11365 The Cat's Not A Cat!!! --- It's a poodle!!! It may be a poodle, but it is not the only poodle around. Quote: there are enough transliteration mis-spells on Sat Avtar's site for me to raise a red flag - at the same time as I am working with her to fix them. Un-quote. I feel very lucky to have Guru Fatha Singhs help with the mantras. I am making the changes. I have no problem, putting up the 'proper' spellings of the Mantras. But, I have questions. And, since, Guru Fatha Singh, has so kindly opened this topic to this, group, I would like share what I have been experiencing. I am wondering, if this is a matter, of the 'popular' accepted spelling vs. 'Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa's Nitnem' which Guru Fatha Singh is using. This is my problem and has been all along: For one instance - The Aquarian Teacher Training Manual, KRI, Text Book Level One Instructor Chattr Chakkr Varti Chattr chakkr vartee, Chattr chakkr bhugatay Suyumbhav subhang sarab daa sarab jugtay Dukaalang pranaasee dayaalang saroopay Sadaa ung sungay abhangang bibhootay Spirit Voyage is being referred to as the place to see mantras and how to spell them, and, I was referred to them by someone from this group, as a place, to get the correct spelling? Spirit Voyage -Mantra-pedia Chattra Chakkra Vartee, Chattra Chakkra Bhugatay, Suyambhav Subhang Sarab Daa Saraab Jugatay. Dukaalan Pranasee, Diaalang Saroopay, Sadaa Ang Sangay, Abhangang Bibhutaay my website spells it this way) from Mantras of the Master KRI seal of approval chanted by Santokh Singh Khalsa (teaching for over 25 years)? copyright 2007 Chatra Chakra Varti Chatra chakra vartee chatra chakra bhugatay Suyambhav subhang sarab daa sarab jugatay Dukaalang pranaasee d-i-aalag saroopay Sadaa ang sangay abhangang bibhootay Guru Fatha Singh - Chattur Chakkr - use this spelling x3 The Teachers Training Manual is given out all over the world, as the word, the authroity, for teachers-- is it? Is anyone even interested in the different spellings and / or having one source with the correct spelling for all? Blessings, Sat Avtar Kaur Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 5, 2010 Sat Nam. Since this is an open discussion now, I'll reply here. I wish there were an authoritative and accurate site with all the correct spellings and pronunciations of the many, many mantras and Gurbani Yogiji shared with us. The KRI Teachers Manual would seem to be the obvious candidate. I've only had a few minutes to look at it in the light of my exchange with Myra, long enough to see that while it seems on the mark in almost every respect, it does not indicate the retroflext Gurmukhi letters when they occur. To make a rough analogy, that's like writing musical notation and where the original says " F sharp " you transcribe it without mentioning the sharp. It is was on my list of things to do, to email KRI about this, but here we go. The cat's out of the bag. Another cat, another bag... Bless everybody at KRI, and pray the next edition of the teachers manual has this fixed. As Sat Avtar Kaur indicated, Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa's transliterations have the retroflexes figured out, though he does not focus on mantras, but on Gurbani. Bless Sat Avtar Kaur for her efforts. Guru Fatha Singh Kundalini-Yoga , " sat_avtar_kaur " <myralorey wrote: > > Sat Nam, > > I laughed when i read Guru Fatha Singh's post, Message #11365 > The Cat's Not A Cat!!! --- It's a poodle!!! > > It may be a poodle, but it is not the only poodle around. > > Quote: there are enough transliteration mis-spells on Sat Avtar's site for me to raise a red flag - at the same time as I am working with her to fix them. Un-quote. > > I feel very lucky to have Guru Fatha Singhs help with the mantras. I am making the changes. I have no problem, putting up the 'proper' spellings of the Mantras. But, I have questions. > > And, since, Guru Fatha Singh, has so kindly opened this topic to this, group, I would like share what I have been experiencing. > > I am wondering, if this is a matter, of the 'popular' accepted spelling vs. 'Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa's Nitnem' which Guru Fatha Singh is using. > > This is my problem and has been all along: > > For one instance - > > The Aquarian Teacher Training Manual, > KRI, Text Book Level One Instructor > > Chattr Chakkr Varti > > Chattr chakkr vartee, > Chattr chakkr bhugatay > Suyumbhav subhang sarab daa sarab jugtay > Dukaalang pranaasee dayaalang saroopay > Sadaa ung sungay abhangang bibhootay > > > Spirit Voyage is being referred to as the place to see mantras > and how to spell them, and, I was referred to them by someone from this group, as a place, to get the correct spelling? > > Spirit Voyage -Mantra-pedia > > Chattra Chakkra Vartee, > Chattra Chakkra Bhugatay, > Suyambhav Subhang Sarab Daa Saraab Jugatay. > Dukaalan Pranasee, Diaalang Saroopay, > Sadaa Ang Sangay, Abhangang Bibhutaay > > > my website spells it this way) > from Mantras of the Master > KRI seal of approval > chanted by Santokh Singh Khalsa > (teaching for over 25 years)? > copyright 2007 > > Chatra Chakra Varti > > Chatra chakra vartee > chatra chakra bhugatay > Suyambhav subhang sarab daa sarab jugatay > Dukaalang pranaasee d-i-aalag saroopay > Sadaa ang sangay abhangang bibhootay > > Guru Fatha Singh - Chattur Chakkr - use this spelling x3 > > The Teachers Training Manual is given out all over the world, as the word, the authroity, for teachers-- is it? > > Is anyone even interested in the different spellings and / or having one source with the correct spelling for all? > > Blessings, > > Sat Avtar Kaur > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 6, 2010 Sat Nam! Actually, there is no " correct " spelling of the mantras. It's all phonetic. So unless you are writing in Gurmukhi, it's a mater of choice how the English version is written. Sat Nam... Saat Naam... Saatinaam.... it's all the same. There are MANY phonetic systems for transliterating Gurmukhi words. Kulbir Singh Thind developed one of the most widely used ones. .......G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 6, 2010 Sat Nam Sat Avtar, I am not an expert on languages but to m eye, it looks like all the different translations actually are the same in the way the words are pronounced phonetically. GuruBandhu Kundalini-Yoga , " sat_avtar_kaur " > Quote: there are enough transliteration mis-spells on Sat Avtar's site for me to raise a red flag - at the same time as I am working with her to fix them. Un-quote. > > I feel very lucky to have Guru Fatha Singhs help with the mantras. I am making the changes. I have no problem, putting up the 'proper' spellings of the Mantras. But, I have questions. > > And, since, Guru Fatha Singh, has so kindly opened this topic to this, group, I would like share what I have been experiencing. > > I am wondering, if this is a matter, of the 'popular' accepted spelling vs. 'Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa's Nitnem' which Guru Fatha Singh is using. > > This is my problem and has been all along: > > For one instance - > > The Aquarian Teacher Training Manual, > KRI, Text Book Level One Instructor > > Chattr Chakkr Varti > > Chattr chakkr vartee, > Chattr chakkr bhugatay > Suyumbhav subhang sarab daa sarab jugtay > Dukaalang pranaasee dayaalang saroopay > Sadaa ung sungay abhangang bibhootay > > > Spirit Voyage is being referred to as the place to see mantras > and how to spell them, and, I was referred to them by someone from this group, as a place, to get the correct spelling? > > Spirit Voyage -Mantra-pedia > > Chattra Chakkra Vartee, > Chattra Chakkra Bhugatay, > Suyambhav Subhang Sarab Daa Saraab Jugatay. > Dukaalan Pranasee, Diaalang Saroopay, > Sadaa Ang Sangay, Abhangang Bibhutaay > > > my website spells it this way) > from Mantras of the Master > KRI seal of approval > chanted by Santokh Singh Khalsa > (teaching for over 25 years)? > copyright 2007 > > Chatra Chakra Varti > > Chatra chakra vartee > chatra chakra bhugatay > Suyambhav subhang sarab daa sarab jugatay > Dukaalang pranaasee d-i-aalag saroopay > Sadaa ang sangay abhangang bibhootay > > Guru Fatha Singh - Chattur Chakkr - use this spelling x3 > > The Teachers Training Manual is given out all over the world, as the word, the authroity, for teachers-- is it? > > Is anyone even interested in the different spellings and / or having one source with the correct spelling for all? > > Blessings, > > Sat Avtar Kaur > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 8, 2010 There IS correct and incorrect spelling of mantras. A correct spelling accurately reflects the sound of a mantra. A spelling is part of a phonetic system. There can be different phonetic systems. A system is good so long as it is capable of accurately conveying the sound of a mantra. And someone who undertakes the task of transliterating (i.e. spelling out) a mantra using some competent phonetic system is themself competent and correct to the extent that their work coheres with the original sound of the mantra. If you spend some time with Christopher Shackle's Sacred Language of the Sikhs, you will see that very small inflections can change the case, gender or number of a work. Sat Naam, Sat(i) Naam, Sat Naam(u) isn't necessarily all the same. Sometimes poetic licence allows permits some bending of the grammatical infrastructure of the language and it can be the same. Oftentimes it doesn't. It is a problem, and I know it is a problem when Shabads turn up mis-spelled in our teacher training manual. The transliteration needs to take regular cognizance of the difference between long and short vowels, and retroflex and non-retroflex consonants. I have alerted the team at KRI about this issue with a list of corrections. If anyone would like that list, they can email me and I will be happy to send it to them. Blessings abounding... Guru Fatha Singh Kundalini-Yoga , gurukas wrote: > > > Sat Nam! Actually, there is no " correct " spelling of the mantras. It's > all phonetic. So unless you are writing in Gurmukhi, it's a mater of > choice how the English version is written. > > Sat Nam... Saat Naam... Saatinaam.... it's all the same. There are MANY > phonetic systems for transliterating Gurmukhi words. Kulbir Singh Thind > developed one of the most widely used ones. > > ......G > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 8, 2010 Sat Nam! Could you please send it to the mailing list (in this way your list will be available in the archive)? Thank you in advance! Blessings, Sujan S. On Friday, January 08, 2010 12:22 AM, gurufathasingh ha scritto: > ... > > I have alerted the team at KRI about this issue with a list of > corrections. If anyone would like that list, they can email me and I > will be happy to send it to them. > > Blessings abounding... > > Guru Fatha Singh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 8, 2010 Sat Nam, One wonderful advantage, to re-working my mantra pages, is that I get to listen to all the youtubes. One of my favorites, is Mata Mandit Singh doing Hum Dhum, he goes faster and faster and you just know everyone there was having a really good time. lol I think I will listen to it again, Sat Avtar Kaur http://www.kundaliniyogainfocntr.com/ http://www.kundalini-yoga-info.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
