Interesting read - Srivaishnavism is an interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically

[Guest guest]

Swamin,

 

Of course such comparisons of Srivaishnavism with Catholic Theology are getting popular--a book published by TTD--by Sri RK Seshadri(retd Dy Governor -RBI) on "Divine Grace" traces the origin of srivaishnavism from Rigvedic period and gives excllent comparisons of various approaches for personal God///worshipping ---including a chapter on comparison to Christianity.----I guess this book must be atleast 20 years old .

 

I happen to scan thru the Princeton University Library----there are many--may be hundreds of articles published by many Westerners and Indians on such topics and many references on Sri Ramanuja.

Amazing consistency and cohesiveness form the hallmarks of our Sampradayam---and

Swami Desika's monumental efforts are bound to capture the imgination of westerners--(perhaps --then we will wake up to realise the wealth we missed out)

dasan

Rangarajan--- On Fri, 14/8/09, Madhavakkannan V <srivaishnavan wrote:

Madhavakkannan V <srivaishnavan Interesting read - Srivaishnavism is an interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically , , acharya , nama-singapore , oppiliappan , parakalamatham , , desikasampradaya , bakthi-indonesia , andavan , Srisathyanarayanaperumal Date: Friday, 14 August, 2009, 8:51 AM

http://www.hindu. com/fr/2009/ 08/14/stories/ 2009081450950100 .htm What does Vaishnavite scholar Vedanta Desika have in common with Catholic priest St. Francis? Prof. Francis X. Clooney discusses the link in his latest book. ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -Srivaishnavism is an interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically. ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -THEOLOGICAL APPROACH: Prof. Francis X. Clooney. The coming together of any two religions for most of us could mean raised voices and bloodshed… quite paradoxical to what all religions preach. But Prof. Francis X. Clooney, S.J., Harvard University, and author of several books, has a different perspective. Prof. Clooney spoke about his book ‘Beyond Compare: St. Francis and

Sri Vedanta Desika on Loving Surrender to God’, during a talk organised by Prakriti Foundation at Madras Terrace House recently. In his work, he compares the two preceptors who were from different times and countries, and practised different religions, but who were united in their approached the concept of surrender to God. Prof. Clooney pointed out that since his work was like the interpretative work of a dancer or a musician, there was a great deal of practice and hard work that went into it right from the choice of subject. “It took me several years to narrow down on whom to compareâ€, he said. He added that “the minute you compare to celebrate one over the other, or compare to just get common quotes, it is not comparison in the real term.â€So what does Vedanta Desika, the 13/14th century preceptor for Vaishnavites, have in common with St. Francis, a 17th century Catholic priest from Geneva? Both valued writing and in their

written work, they hoped to pursue the devotee to perform a religious act itself. Both sought to transform the reader and used older texts to reinforce their message. Most important, both urged the reader to introspect and find out what it takes for him to surrender unconditionally to God. The book has several interesting passage on these topics. The audience was treated to a few enthralling readings. Catching up with Prof. Clooney after the session for a short interview, helped put the book in a greater context. Excerpts:Tell us a little about your research. I work in certain traditions of classical Hinduism, including Mimamsa Vedanta and Srivaishnavism. Of course, my work as a professor leads me to write on other topics and themes at times, but these are my areas of focus in the study of Hinduism. Beyond these, I am also a comparative theologian, and so, I reflect on what I learn from Indian traditions alongside my understanding of my

Christian bearings. And, to understand comparative study, I am also a bit of a historian, studying how Western Jesuits over the centuries have understood Hinduism.What got you interested in Srivaishnavism? It is a very interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically, and it shows us a complete religious way of life. The fact that Srivaishnavism flourishes in both Tamil and Sanskrit makes it all the more beautiful. The poetry of Divya Prabandham in particular is very lovely. I also appreciate the Vaishnava temples, their architecture, imagery, and the worship that takes place there. In many ways, I have found Srivaishnavism to be parallel to Roman Catholicism, with a similar depth, breadth, and wholeness.What is your mission on comparative religious studies and what forces do you see helping/hindering it? I am a professor at one of the oldest and best universities in the U.S., and also a Catholic priest and

Jesuit. So my mission is academic — scholarly writing on topics of religious importance, and doing comparative study. It is also spiritual, in the sense that I believe that inter-religious truths and understanding are valuable to one and all. If my work helps people appreciate and learn from other religions, then I think I would have succeeded and will be very happy. If people become more convinced of the truth of their own tradition, with deep faith, that too is very good. Since there is a lot of religious misunderstanding and intolerance today, my hope is that my work will probably show a way for people to relate to other religions more constructively and positively. Your future plans and interests… I have several book projects in mind, including more work on the Srivaishnava Bhagavatha Visaya, certain songs and commentaries compared with medieval Christian commentary on the Biblical Song of Songs. I have also been doing research

on the Jesuit tradition of inter-religious learning in India, and may soon have something more to write on that.Written word Some of the books written by Prof. Clooney are: • Hindu God, Christian God: How Reason Helps to Break Down the Boundaries between Religions (2001), • Divine Mother, Blessed Mother: Hindu Goddesses and the Virgin Mary (2005), • Beyond Compare: St Francis de Sales and Sri Vedanta Desika on Loving Surrender to God (2008).

Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more.

[Guest guest]

SrI:

Interesting note from Sri Ramji...

I agree there is no comparison of course.. Please take the discussion offline.

Regards

Namo Narayana

dAsan madhavakkannan

********

Dear Swamy

 

Adiyen Dasan

 

We do seem to live in testing times. Being the eternal optimist, every living day I spend in the hope that the whole world will be made to realise the universality of Shri Vaishanavam religion and philosophy.

 

But that the principles expounded by our great Acharyas and established eternally in the Vedas, should fall in the hand of unworthy people scares me a lot. A fine example is this article forwarded by you. No other magazine but 'The Hindu' is so intellectually bankrupt that it'd stoop to depths beyond imagination to propogate this idea.

 

Any comparison between 'Rev' Francis Xavier and Swamy Desika is like comparing Ravana and Lord Shri Ram. It is like saying, Ravana performed a lot of penance and was expert in Shastras and Dharmas (that is just in knowing them and not practising them). Lord Shri Ram was aslo an expert on Dharma Shastras - so both of them advocated similar religion? what kind of a joker would a person be if he/she truly believed in this statement.

 

For comparing two idelogies/philosophical thought/religious ways two BASIC areas need to be compared: (a) Knowledge/Gnanam and (b) Practice of that Knowledge - that is having acquired that knowledge how one seeks to incorporate in their life style

 

Swamy Desika's Anushtanam are very well known. Let's look at this 'Rev' Francis Xavier's way of implementing the 'loving surrender to the lord'. Pls follow this link which tells you how this Rakshasa ordered killing of untold nos. of Hindus in Portugese occupied Goa.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goa_Inquisition

 

Now low quality journals like The Hindu publish just to fill pages. For all you might know foreign institutions with vested interest to spread their religion might have paid this newspaper to publish these articles.

 

Make no mistake. The Christian missionaries are dangerous than the moghul invasions we faced in the 11-14th century. Atleast during those invasions, the invaders made themselves visible and told us of their agenda - namely to sack all of us if we don't convert. This was lot easier to handle - either stand up or convert. But the Christian missionaries are lot intelligent. Moghuls used violence to scale up their relgion. Christian missionaries are infact the messengers of Kali Purushan - they know how to make an individual dance to their tunes - not by physical force (that is so medeival). Money is the new means - use the money to occupy the mind space, journal space, real estate space - I do not want to write more negative thoughts in these forums

 

But seriously, my blood boils when I see adulteration of our sampradayam by elements that pretend to be loving to our sampradayam. This article is nothing but another step towards making Christianity look like Sanatana Dharmama and convert the gullible

 

That we all choose to look aside and be occupied by other material priorities in life is very shameful indeed.

 

Adiyen Dasan

Ramji

 

 

--- On Fri, 8/14/09, Madhavakkannan V <srivaishnavan wrote:

Madhavakkannan V <srivaishnavan[sriParakalaMatham] Interesting read - Srivaishnavism is an interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically , , acharya , nama-singapore , oppiliappan , parakalamatham , , desikasampradaya , bakthi-indonesia , andavan , Srisathyanarayanaperumal Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 8:51 AM

http://www.hindu. com/fr/2009/ 08/14/stories/ 2009081450950100 .htm What does Vaishnavite scholar Vedanta Desika have in common with Catholic priest St. Francis? Prof. Francis X. Clooney discusses the link in his latest book. ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -Srivaishnavism is an interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically. ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -THEOLOGICAL APPROACH: Prof. Francis X. Clooney. The coming together of any two religions for most of us could mean raised voices and bloodshed… quite paradoxical to what all religions preach. But Prof. Francis X. Clooney, S.J., Harvard University, and author of several books, has a different perspective. Prof. Clooney spoke about his book ‘Beyond Compare: St. Francis and

Sri Vedanta Desika on Loving Surrender to God’, during a talk organised by Prakriti Foundation at Madras Terrace House recently. In his work, he compares the two preceptors who were from different times and countries, and practised different religions, but who were united in their approached the concept of surrender to God. Prof. Clooney pointed out that since his work was like the interpretative work of a dancer or a musician, there was a great deal of practice and hard work that went into it right from the choice of subject. “It took me several years to narrow down on whom to compareâ€, he said. He added that “the minute you compare to celebrate one over the other, or compare to just get common quotes, it is not comparison in the real term.â€So what does Vedanta Desika, the 13/14th century preceptor for Vaishnavites, have in common with St. Francis, a 17th century Catholic priest from Geneva? Both valued writing and in their

written work, they hoped to pursue the devotee to perform a religious act itself. Both sought to transform the reader and used older texts to reinforce their message. Most important, both urged the reader to introspect and find out what it takes for him to surrender unconditionally to God. The book has several interesting passage on these topics. The audience was treated to a few enthralling readings. Catching up with Prof. Clooney after the session for a short interview, helped put the book in a greater context. Excerpts:Tell us a little about your research. I work in certain traditions of classical Hinduism, including Mimamsa Vedanta and Srivaishnavism. Of course, my work as a professor leads me to write on other topics and themes at times, but these are my areas of focus in the study of Hinduism. Beyond these, I am also a comparative theologian, and so, I reflect on what I learn from Indian traditions alongside my understanding of my

Christian bearings. And, to understand comparative study, I am also a bit of a historian, studying how Western Jesuits over the centuries have understood Hinduism.What got you interested in Srivaishnavism? It is a very interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically, and it shows us a complete religious way of life. The fact that Srivaishnavism flourishes in both Tamil and Sanskrit makes it all the more beautiful. The poetry of Divya Prabandham in particular is very lovely. I also appreciate the Vaishnava temples, their architecture, imagery, and the worship that takes place there. In many ways, I have found Srivaishnavism to be parallel to Roman Catholicism, with a similar depth, breadth, and wholeness.What is your mission on comparative religious studies and what forces do you see helping/hindering it? I am a professor at one of the oldest and best universities in the U.S., and also a Catholic priest and

Jesuit. So my mission is academic — scholarly writing on topics of religious importance, and doing comparative study. It is also spiritual, in the sense that I believe that inter-religious truths and understanding are valuable to one and all. If my work helps people appreciate and learn from other religions, then I think I would have succeeded and will be very happy. If people become more convinced of the truth of their own tradition, with deep faith, that too is very good. Since there is a lot of religious misunderstanding and intolerance today, my hope is that my work will probably show a way for people to relate to other religions more constructively and positively. Your future plans and interests… I have several book projects in mind, including more work on the Srivaishnava Bhagavatha Visaya, certain songs and commentaries compared with medieval Christian commentary on the Biblical Song of Songs. I have also been doing research

on the Jesuit tradition of inter-religious learning in India, and may soon have something more to write on that.Written word Some of the books written by Prof. Clooney are: • Hindu God, Christian God: How Reason Helps to Break Down the Boundaries between Religions (2001), • Divine Mother, Blessed Mother: Hindu Goddesses and the Virgin Mary (2005), • Beyond Compare: St Francis de Sales and Sri Vedanta Desika on Loving Surrender to God (2008).

[Guest guest]

Are we promoting Clooney here? Or are we saying that Swami Desika is comparable to Francis? Or are we postulating "emmadhamum sammadham"? I humbly submit that these kinds of mails will lead us away from Srivaishnavism slowly but steadily. We shouldn't mind research on our Acharyas but placing them on the same pedestal of the likes of francis is definitely demeaning and amounts to Bhaagavata apacharam. Moreover, comparing our religion to any other would also amount to Bhagavad apacharam. We are hitting two mangoes with one stone but let us realize that these two mangoes are our own eyes.Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan--- On Fri, 8/14/09, Madhavakkannan V <srivaishnavan wrote:Madhavakkannan V

<srivaishnavan Interesting read - Srivaishnavism is an interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically , , acharya , nama-singapore , oppiliappan , parakalamatham , , desikasampradaya , bakthi-indonesia , andavan , Srisathyanarayanaperumal Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 8:51 AM

 

 

http://www.hindu. com/fr/2009/ 08/14/stories/ 2009081450950100 .htm

 

What does Vaishnavite scholar Vedanta Desika have in common with Catholic priest St. Francis? Prof. Francis X. Clooney discusses the link in his latest book.

 

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Srivaishnavism is an interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically.

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

 

THEOLOGICAL APPROACH: Prof. Francis X. Clooney.

 

The coming together of any two religions for most of us could mean raised voices and bloodshed… quite paradoxical to what all religions preach. But Prof. Francis X. Clooney, S.J., Harvard University, and author of several books, has a different perspective.

 

Prof. Clooney spoke about his book ‘Beyond Compare: St. Francis and Sri Vedanta Desika on Loving Surrender to God’, during a talk organised by Prakriti Foundation at Madras Terrace House recently. In his work, he compares the two preceptors who were from different times and countries, and practised different religions, but who were united in their approached the concept of surrender to God.

 

Prof. Clooney pointed out that since his work was like the interpretative work of a dancer or a musician, there was a great deal of practice and hard work that went into it right from the choice of subject. “It took me several years to narrow down on whom to compareâ€, he said. He added that “the minute you compare to celebrate one over the other, or compare to just get common quotes, it is not comparison in the real term.â€

 

So what does Vedanta Desika, the 13/14th century preceptor for Vaishnavites, have in common with St. Francis, a 17th century Catholic priest from Geneva? Both valued writing and in their written work, they hoped to pursue the devotee to perform a religious act itself. Both sought to transform the reader and used older texts to reinforce their message. Most important, both urged the reader to introspect and find out what it takes for him to surrender unconditionally to God. The book has several interesting passage on these topics. The audience was treated to a few enthralling readings. Catching up with Prof. Clooney after the session for a short interview, helped put the book in a greater context. Excerpts:

 

Tell us a little about your research.

 

I work in certain traditions of classical Hinduism, including Mimamsa Vedanta and Srivaishnavism. Of course, my work as a professor leads me to write on other topics and themes at times, but these are my areas of focus in the study of Hinduism. Beyond these, I am also a comparative theologian, and so, I reflect on what I learn from Indian traditions alongside my understanding of my Christian bearings. And, to understand comparative study, I am also a bit of a historian, studying how Western Jesuits over the centuries have understood Hinduism.

 

What got you interested in Srivaishnavism?

 

It is a very interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically, and it shows us a complete religious way of life. The fact that Srivaishnavism flourishes in both Tamil and Sanskrit makes it all the more beautiful. The poetry of Divya Prabandham in particular is very lovely. I also appreciate the Vaishnava temples, their architecture, imagery, and the worship that takes place there. In many ways, I have found Srivaishnavism to be parallel to Roman Catholicism, with a similar depth, breadth, and wholeness.

 

What is your mission on comparative religious studies and what forces do you see helping/hindering it?

 

I am a professor at one of the oldest and best universities in the U.S., and also a Catholic priest and Jesuit. So my mission is academic — scholarly writing on topics of religious importance, and doing comparative study. It is also spiritual, in the sense that I believe that inter-religious truths and understanding are valuable to one and all. If my work helps people appreciate and learn from other religions, then I think I would have succeeded and will be very happy. If people become more convinced of the truth of their own tradition, with deep faith, that too is very good. Since there is a lot of religious misunderstanding and intolerance today, my hope is that my work will probably show a way for people to relate to other religions more constructively and positively.

 

Your future plans and interests…

 

I have several book projects in mind, including more work on the Srivaishnava Bhagavatha Visaya, certain songs and commentaries compared with medieval Christian commentary on the Biblical Song of Songs. I have also been doing research on the Jesuit tradition of inter-religious learning in India, and may soon have something more to write on that.

 

Written word

 

Some of the books written by Prof. Clooney are:

 

• Hindu God, Christian God: How Reason Helps to Break Down the Boundaries between Religions (2001),

 

• Divine Mother, Blessed Mother: Hindu Goddesses and the Virgin Mary (2005),

 

• Beyond Compare: St Francis de Sales and Sri Vedanta Desika on Loving Surrender to God (2008).

[Guest guest]

Are we promoting Clooney here? Or are we saying that Swami Desika is comparable to Francis? Or are we postulating "emmadhamum sammadham"? I humbly submit that these kinds of mails will lead us away from Srivaishnavism slowly but steadily. We shouldn't mind research on our Acharyas but placing them on the same pedestal of the likes of francis is definitely demeaning and amounts to Bhaagavata apacharam. Moreover, comparing our religion to any other would also amount to Bhagavad

apacharam. We are hitting two mangoes with one stone but let us realize that these two mangoes are our own eyes.Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan--- On Fri, 8/14/09, Madhavakkannan V <srivaishnavan wrote:Madhavakkannan V

<srivaishnavan Interesting read - Srivaishnavism is an interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically , , acharya , nama-singapore , oppiliappan , parakalamatham , , desikasampradaya , bakthi-indonesia , andavan , Srisathyanarayanaperumal Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 8:51 AM

 

 

http://www.hindu. com/fr/2009/ 08/14/stories/ 2009081450950100 .htm

 

What does Vaishnavite scholar Vedanta Desika have in common with Catholic priest St. Francis? Prof. Francis X. Clooney discusses the link in his latest book.

 

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Srivaishnavism is an interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically.

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

 

THEOLOGICAL APPROACH: Prof. Francis X. Clooney.

 

The coming together of any two religions for most of us could mean raised voices and bloodshed… quite paradoxical to what all religions preach. But Prof. Francis X. Clooney, S.J., Harvard University, and author of several books, has a different perspective.

 

Prof. Clooney spoke about his book ‘Beyond Compare: St. Francis and Sri Vedanta Desika on Loving Surrender to God’, during a talk organised by Prakriti Foundation at Madras Terrace House recently. In his work, he compares the two preceptors who were from different times and countries, and practised different religions, but who were united in their approached the concept of surrender to God.

 

Prof. Clooney pointed out that since his work was like the interpretative work of a dancer or a musician, there was a great deal of practice and hard work that went into it right from the choice of subject. “It took me several years to narrow down on whom to compareâ€, he said. He added that “the minute you compare to celebrate one over the other, or compare to just get common quotes, it is not comparison in the real term.â€

 

So what does Vedanta Desika, the 13/14th century preceptor for Vaishnavites, have in common with St. Francis, a 17th century Catholic priest from Geneva? Both valued writing and in their written work, they hoped to pursue the devotee to perform a religious act itself. Both sought to transform the reader and used older texts to reinforce their message. Most important, both urged the reader to introspect and find out what it takes for him to surrender unconditionally to God. The book has several interesting passage on these topics. The audience was treated to a few enthralling readings. Catching up with Prof. Clooney after the session for a short interview, helped put the book in a greater context. Excerpts:

 

Tell us a little about your research.

 

I work in certain traditions of classical Hinduism, including Mimamsa Vedanta and Srivaishnavism. Of course, my work as a professor leads me to write on other topics and themes at times, but these are my areas of focus in the study of Hinduism. Beyond these, I am also a comparative theologian, and so, I reflect on what I learn from Indian traditions alongside my understanding of my Christian bearings. And, to understand comparative study, I am also a bit of a historian, studying how Western Jesuits over the centuries have understood Hinduism.

 

What got you interested in Srivaishnavism?

 

It is a very interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically, and it shows us a complete religious way of life. The fact that Srivaishnavism flourishes in both Tamil and Sanskrit makes it all the more beautiful. The poetry of Divya Prabandham in particular is very lovely. I also appreciate the Vaishnava temples, their architecture, imagery, and the worship that takes place there. In many ways, I have found Srivaishnavism to be parallel to Roman Catholicism, with a similar depth, breadth, and wholeness.

 

What is your mission on comparative religious studies and what forces do you see helping/hindering it?

 

I am a professor at one of the oldest and best universities in the U.S., and also a Catholic priest and Jesuit. So my mission is academic — scholarly writing on topics of religious importance, and doing comparative study. It is also spiritual, in the sense that I believe that inter-religious truths and understanding are valuable to one and all. If my work helps people appreciate and learn from other religions, then I think I would have succeeded and will be very happy. If people become more convinced of the truth of their own tradition, with deep faith, that too is very good. Since there is a lot of religious misunderstanding and intolerance today, my hope is that my work will probably show a way for people to relate to other religions more constructively and positively.

 

Your future plans and interests…

 

I have several book projects in mind, including more work on the Srivaishnava Bhagavatha Visaya, certain songs and commentaries compared with medieval Christian commentary on the Biblical Song of Songs. I have also been doing research on the Jesuit tradition of inter-religious learning in India, and may soon have something more to write on that.

 

Written word

 

Some of the books written by Prof. Clooney are:

 

• Hindu God, Christian God: How Reason Helps to Break Down the Boundaries between Religions (2001),

 

• Divine Mother, Blessed Mother: Hindu Goddesses and the Virgin Mary (2005),

 

• Beyond Compare: St Francis de Sales and Sri Vedanta Desika on Loving Surrender to God (2008).

[Guest guest]

parakalamatham , Ramji Govindarajan <ramji_iyengar

wrote:

 

Dear Swamy

 

Adiyen Dasan

 

We do seem to live in testing times. Being the eternal optimist, every living

day I spend in the hope that the whole world will be made to realise the

universality of Shri Vaishanavam religion and philosophy.

 

But that the principles expounded by our great Acharyas and established

eternally in the Vedas, should fall in the hand of unworthy people scares me a

lot. A fine example is this article forwarded by you. No other magazine but 'The

Hindu' is so intellectually bankrupt that it'd stoop to depths beyond

imagination to propogate this idea.

 

Any comparison between 'Rev' Francis Xavier and Swamy Desika is like comparing

Ravana and Lord Shri Ram. It is like saying, Ravana performed a lot of penance

and was expert in Shastras and Dharmas (that is just in knowing them and not

practising them). Lord Shri Ram was aslo an expert on Dharma Shastras - so both

of them advocated similar religion? what kind of a joker would a person be if

he/she truly believed in this statement.

 

For comparing two idelogies/philosophical thought/religious ways two BASIC areas

need to be compared: (a) Knowledge/Gnanam and (b) Practice of that Knowledge -

that is having acquired that knowledge how one seeks to incorporate in their

life style

 

Swamy Desika's Anushtanam are very well known. Let's look at this 'Rev' Francis

Xavier's way of implementing the 'loving surrender to the lord'. Pls follow this

link which tells you how this Rakshasa ordered killing of untold nos. of Hindus

in Portugese occupied Goa.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goa_Inquisition

 

Now low quality journals like The Hindu publish just to fill pages. For all you

might know foreign institutions with vested interest to spread their religion

might have paid this newspaper to publish these articles.

 

Make no mistake. The Christian missionaries are dangerous than the moghul

invasions we faced in the 11-14th century. Atleast during those invasions, the

invaders made themselves visible and told us of their agenda - namely to sack

all of us if we don't convert. This was lot easier to handle - either stand

up or convert. But the Christian missionaries are lot intelligent. Moghuls used

violence to scale up their relgion. Christian missionaries are infact the

messengers of Kali Purushan - they know how to make an individual dance to their

tunes - not by physical force (that is so medeival). Money is the new means -

use the money to occupy the mind space, journal space, real estate space - I do

not want to write more negative thoughts in these forums

 

But seriously, my blood boils when I see adulteration of our sampradayam by

elements that pretend to be loving to our sampradayam. This article is nothing

but another step towards making Christianity look like Sanatana Dharmama and

convert the gullible

 

That we all choose to look aside and be occupied by other material priorities in

life is very shameful indeed.

 

Adiyen Dasan

 

Ramji

 

 

 

--- On Fri, 8/14/09, Madhavakkannan V <srivaishnavan wrote:

 

 

Madhavakkannan V <srivaishnavan

[sriParakalaMatham] Interesting read - Srivaishnavism is an interesting

tradition, philosophically and theologically

, ,

acharya , nama-singapore ,

oppiliappan , parakalamatham ,

, desikasampradaya ,

bakthi-indonesia , andavan ,

Srisathyanarayanaperumal

Friday, August 14, 2009, 8:51 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.hindu. com/fr/2009/ 08/14/stories/ 2009081450950100 .htm

 

What does Vaishnavite scholar Vedanta Desika have in common with Catholic priest

St. Francis? Prof. Francis X. Clooney discusses the link in his latest book.

 

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Srivaishnavism is an interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically.

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

 

THEOLOGICAL APPROACH: Prof. Francis X. Clooney.

 

The coming together of any two religions for most of us could mean raised voices

and bloodshed… quite paradoxical to what all religions preach. But Prof.

Francis X. Clooney, S.J., Harvard University, and author of several books, has a

different perspective.

 

Prof. Clooney spoke about his book ‘Beyond Compare: St. Francis and Sri

Vedanta Desika on Loving Surrender to God’, during a talk organised by

Prakriti Foundation at Madras Terrace House recently. In his work, he compares

the two preceptors who were from different times and countries, and practised

different religions, but who were united in their approached the concept of

surrender to God.

 

Prof. Clooney pointed out that since his work was like the interpretative work

of a dancer or a musician, there was a great deal of practice and hard work that

went into it right from the choice of subject. “It took me several years to

narrow down on whom to compareâ€, he said. He added that “the minute you

compare to celebrate one over the other, or compare to just get common quotes,

it is not comparison in the real term.â€

 

So what does Vedanta Desika, the 13/14th century preceptor for Vaishnavites,

have in common with St. Francis, a 17th century Catholic priest from Geneva?

Both valued writing and in their written work, they hoped to pursue the devotee

to perform a religious act itself. Both sought to transform the reader and used

older texts to reinforce their message. Most important, both urged the reader to

introspect and find out what it takes for him to surrender unconditionally to

God. The book has several interesting passage on these topics. The audience was

treated to a few enthralling readings. Catching up with Prof. Clooney after the

session for a short interview, helped put the book in a greater context.

Excerpts:

 

Tell us a little about your research.

 

I work in certain traditions of classical Hinduism, including Mimamsa Vedanta

and Srivaishnavism. Of course, my work as a professor leads me to write on other

topics and themes at times, but these are my areas of focus in the study of

Hinduism. Beyond these, I am also a comparative theologian, and so, I reflect on

what I learn from Indian traditions alongside my understanding of my Christian

bearings. And, to understand comparative study, I am also a bit of a historian,

studying how Western Jesuits over the centuries have understood Hinduism.

 

What got you interested in Srivaishnavism?

 

It is a very interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically, and it

shows us a complete religious way of life. The fact that Srivaishnavism

flourishes in both Tamil and Sanskrit makes it all the more beautiful. The

poetry of Divya Prabandham in particular is very lovely. I also appreciate the

Vaishnava temples, their architecture, imagery, and the worship that takes place

there. In many ways, I have found Srivaishnavism to be parallel to Roman

Catholicism, with a similar depth, breadth, and wholeness.

 

What is your mission on comparative religious studies and what forces do you see

helping/hindering it?

 

I am a professor at one of the oldest and best universities in the U.S., and

also a Catholic priest and Jesuit. So my mission is academic †" scholarly

writing on topics of religious importance, and doing comparative study. It is

also spiritual, in the sense that I believe that inter-religious truths and

understanding are valuable to one and all. If my work helps people appreciate

and learn from other religions, then I think I would have succeeded and will be

very happy. If people become more convinced of the truth of their own tradition,

with deep faith, that too is very good. Since there is a lot of religious

misunderstanding and intolerance today, my hope is that my work will probably

show a way for people to relate to other religions more constructively and

positively.

 

Your future plans and interests…

 

I have several book projects in mind, including more work on the Srivaishnava

Bhagavatha Visaya, certain songs and commentaries compared with medieval

Christian commentary on the Biblical Song of Songs. I have also been doing

research on the Jesuit tradition of inter-religious learning in India, and may

soon have something more to write on that.

 

Written word

 

Some of the books written by Prof. Clooney are:

 

• Hindu God, Christian God: How Reason Helps to Break Down the Boundaries

between Religions (2001),

 

• Divine Mother, Blessed Mother: Hindu Goddesses and the Virgin Mary (2005),

 

• Beyond Compare: St Francis de Sales and Sri Vedanta Desika on Loving

Surrender to God (2008).

 

--- End forwarded message ---

[Guest guest]

 

parakalamatham, Ramji Govindarajan <ramji_iyengar@ ...> wrote:

 

Dear Swamy

Â

Adiyen Dasan

Â

We do seem to live in testing times. Being the eternal optimist, every living day I spend in the hope that the whole world will be made to realise the universality of Shri Vaishanavam religion and philosophy.

Â

But that the principles expounded by our great Acharyas and established eternally in the Vedas, should fall in the hand of unworthy people scares me a lot. A fine example is this article forwarded by you. No other magazine but 'The Hindu' is so intellectually bankrupt that it'd stoop to depths beyond imagination to propogate this idea.

Â

Any comparison between 'Rev' Francis Xavier and Swamy Desika is like comparing Ravana and Lord Shri Ram. It is like saying, Ravana performed a lot of penance and was expert in Shastras and Dharmas (that is just in knowing them and not practising them). Lord Shri Ram was aslo an expert on Dharma Shastras - so both of them advocated similar religion? what kind of a joker would a person be if he/she truly believed in this statement.

Â

For comparing two idelogies/philosoph ical thought/religious ways two BASIC areas need to be compared: (a) Knowledge/Gnanam and (b) Practice of that Knowledge - that is having acquired that knowledge how one seeks to incorporate in their life style

Â

Swamy Desika's Anushtanam are very well known. Let's look at this 'Rev' Francis Xavier's way of implementing the 'loving surrender to the lord'. Pls follow this link which tells you how this Rakshasa ordered killing of untold nos. of Hindus in Portugese occupied Goa.

Â

http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Goa_Inquisition

Â

Now low quality journals like The Hindu publish just to fill pages. For all you might know foreign institutions with vested interest to spread their religion might have paid this newspaper to publish these articles.

Â

Make no mistake. The Christian missionaries are dangerous than the moghul invasions we faced in the 11-14th century. Atleast during those invasions, the invaders made themselves visible and told us of their agenda - namely to sack all of us if we don't convert. This was lot easier to handle - either stand up or convert. But the Christian missionaries are lot intelligent. Moghuls used violence to scale up their relgion. Christian missionaries are infact the messengers of Kali Purushan - they know how to make an individual dance to their tunes - not by physical force (that is so medeival). Money is the new means - use the money to occupy the mind space, journal space, real estate space - I do not want to write more negative thoughts in these forums

Â

But seriously, my blood boils when I see adulteration of our sampradayam by elements that pretend to be loving to our sampradayam. This article is nothing but another step towards making Christianity look like Sanatana Dharmama and convert the gullible

Â

That we all choose to look aside and be occupied by other material priorities in life is very shameful indeed.

Â

Adiyen Dasan

 

Ramji

Â

Â

 

--- On Fri, 8/14/09, Madhavakkannan V <srivaishnavan@ ...> wrote:

 

Madhavakkannan V <srivaishnavan@ ...>

[sriParakalaMatham] Interesting read - Srivaishnavism is an interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically

, , acharya@ .com, nama-singapore, oppiliappan, parakalamatham, , desikasampradaya, bakthi-indonesia, andavan@ .com, Srisathyanarayanape rumal@ s.com

Friday, August 14, 2009, 8:51 AM

 

Â

 

http://www.hindu. com/fr/2009/ 08/14/stories/ 2009081450950100 .htm

 

What does Vaishnavite scholar Vedanta Desika have in common with Catholic priest St. Francis? Prof. Francis X. Clooney discusses the link in his latest book.

 

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Srivaishnavism is an interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically.

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

 

THEOLOGICAL APPROACH: Prof. Francis X. Clooney.

 

The coming together of any two religions for most of us could mean raised voices and bloodshed… quite paradoxical to what all religions preach. But Prof. Francis X. Clooney, S.J., Harvard University, and author of several books, has a different perspective.

 

Prof. Clooney spoke about his book ‘Beyond Compare: St. Francis and Sri Vedanta Desika on Loving Surrender to God’, during a talk organised by Prakriti Foundation at Madras Terrace House recently. In his work, he compares the two preceptors who were from different times and countries, and practised different religions, but who were united in their approached the concept of surrender to God.

 

Prof. Clooney pointed out that since his work was like the interpretative work of a dancer or a musician, there was a great deal of practice and hard work that went into it right from the choice of subject. “It took me several years to narrow down on whom to compare�, he said. He added that “the minute you compare to celebrate one over the other, or compare to just get common quotes, it is not comparison in the real term.�

 

So what does Vedanta Desika, the 13/14th century preceptor for Vaishnavites, have in common with St. Francis, a 17th century Catholic priest from Geneva? Both valued writing and in their written work, they hoped to pursue the devotee to perform a religious act itself. Both sought to transform the reader and used older texts to reinforce their message. Most important, both urged the reader to introspect and find out what it takes for him to surrender unconditionally to God. The book has several interesting passage on these topics. The audience was treated to a few enthralling readings. Catching up with Prof. Clooney after the session for a short interview, helped put the book in a greater context. Excerpts:

 

Tell us a little about your research.

 

I work in certain traditions of classical Hinduism, including Mimamsa Vedanta and Srivaishnavism. Of course, my work as a professor leads me to write on other topics and themes at times, but these are my areas of focus in the study of Hinduism. Beyond these, I am also a comparative theologian, and so, I reflect on what I learn from Indian traditions alongside my understanding of my Christian bearings. And, to understand comparative study, I am also a bit of a historian, studying how Western Jesuits over the centuries have understood Hinduism.

 

What got you interested in Srivaishnavism?

 

It is a very interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically, and it shows us a complete religious way of life. The fact that Srivaishnavism flourishes in both Tamil and Sanskrit makes it all the more beautiful. The poetry of Divya Prabandham in particular is very lovely. I also appreciate the Vaishnava temples, their architecture, imagery, and the worship that takes place there. In many ways, I have found Srivaishnavism to be parallel to Roman Catholicism, with a similar depth, breadth, and wholeness.

 

What is your mission on comparative religious studies and what forces do you see helping/hindering it?

 

I am a professor at one of the oldest and best universities in the U.S., and also a Catholic priest and Jesuit. So my mission is academic â€" scholarly writing on topics of religious importance, and doing comparative study. It is also spiritual, in the sense that I believe that inter-religious truths and understanding are valuable to one and all. If my work helps people appreciate and learn from other religions, then I think I would have succeeded and will be very happy. If people become more convinced of the truth of their own tradition, with deep faith, that too is very good. Since there is a lot of religious misunderstanding and intolerance today, my hope is that my work will probably show a way for people to relate to other religions more constructively and positively.

 

Your future plans and interests…

 

I have several book projects in mind, including more work on the Srivaishnava Bhagavatha Visaya, certain songs and commentaries compared with medieval Christian commentary on the Biblical Song of Songs. I have also been doing research on the Jesuit tradition of inter-religious learning in India, and may soon have something more to write on that.

 

Written word

 

Some of the books written by Prof. Clooney are:

 

• Hindu God, Christian God: How Reason Helps to Break Down the Boundaries between Religions (2001),

 

• Divine Mother, Blessed Mother: Hindu Goddesses and the Virgin Mary (2005),

 

• Beyond Compare: St Francis de Sales and Sri Vedanta Desika on Loving Surrender to God (2008).

 

--- End forwarded message ---

[Guest guest]

Very well said Swami. However, we have seen that this very same professor has been helped by our own ilk not only by giving inputs on esoteric issues which should not be divulged to these kind of people but also by providing him with the rarest of rare books pertaining to our sampradaya; which are not available even to our community. Such professors have the arrogance and ignorance to interpret works of our acharyas in such a way that it promotes evangelism. These stalwarts who have helped the prof go ahead and defend such acts of atrocious nature and claim that this prof is better than many of the so called brahmins themselves. We should all hang our heads in shame for abetting such causes.Adiyen Ramanuja dasan--- On Sun, 8/16/09, srinivasan sowmianarayanan <vasans2004 wrote:srinivasan sowmianarayanan <vasans2004Re: Fwd: Interesting read - Srivaishnavism is an interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically"Vasudevan VK" <vasuchakSunday, August 16, 2009, 5:36 AMThis is an appeal to everyone. When we have a lot to read in our sampradaya from the huge pile of granthams, we should not allow ourselves to get diverted by such so called research articles by those who have no authorisation to comment on our sampradaya. We should give up

the attempt to find some outside support. This kind of intrusion started only with our looking outside for so called support. As we have enough to master within ourselves please don't waste your time and ours by these divertions.

dAsan

anbil SrInivAsan--- On Sun, 16/8/09, Vasudevan VK <vasuchak wrote:

Vasudevan VK <vasuchakFwd: Interesting read - Srivaishnavism is an interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically , acharya , nama-singapore , oppiliappan , , bakthi-indonesia , andavan , Srisathyanarayanaperumal Date: Sunday, 16 August, 2009, 12:22 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

parakalamatham, Ramji Govindarajan <ramji_iyengar@ ...> wrote:Dear Swamy Adiyen Dasan We do seem to live in testing times.. Being the eternal optimist, every living day I spend in the hope that the whole world will be made to realise the universality of Shri Vaishanavam religion and philosophy. But that the principles expounded by our great Acharyas and established eternally in the Vedas, should fall in the hand of unworthy people scares me a lot. A fine example is this article forwarded by you. No other magazine but 'The Hindu' is so intellectually bankrupt that it'd stoop to depths beyond imagination to propogate this idea. Any comparison between 'Rev' Francis Xavier and Swamy Desika is like comparing Ravana and Lord Shri Ram. It is like saying, Ravana performed a lot of penance and was expert in Shastras and Dharmas (that is

just

in knowing them and not practising them). Lord Shri Ram was aslo an expert on Dharma Shastras - so both of them advocated similar religion? what kind of a joker would a person be if he/she truly believed in this statement. For comparing two idelogies/philosoph ical thought/religious ways two BASIC areas need to be compared: (a) Knowledge/Gnanam and (b) Practice of that Knowledge - that is having acquired that knowledge how one seeks to incorporate in their life style Swamy Desika's Anushtanam are very well known. Let's look at this 'Rev' Francis Xavier's way of implementing the 'loving surrender to the lord'. Pls follow this link which tells you how this Rakshasa ordered killing of untold nos. of Hindus in Portugese occupied Goa.  http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Goa_Inquisition Now low quality journals like

The

Hindu publish just to fill pages. For all you might know foreign institutions with vested interest to spread their religion might have paid this newspaper to publish these articles.  Make no mistake. The Christian missionaries are dangerous than the moghul invasions we faced in the 11-14th century. Atleast during those invasions, the invaders made themselves visible and told us of their agenda - namely to sack all of us if we don't convert. This was lot easier to handle - either stand up or convert. But the Christian missionaries are lot intelligent. Moghuls used violence to scale up their relgion. Christian missionaries are infact the messengers of Kali Purushan - they know how to make an individual dance to their tunes - not by physical force (that is so medeival). Money is the new means - use the money to occupy the mind space, journal space, real estate space - I do not want to write more negative thoughts in these forums

 But seriously, my blood boils when I see adulteration of our sampradayam by elements that pretend to be loving to our sampradayam.. This article is nothing but another step towards making Christianity look like Sanatana Dharmama and convert the gullible That we all choose to look aside and be occupied by other material priorities in life is very shameful indeed.  Adiyen DasanRamji  --- On Fri, 8/14/09, Madhavakkannan V <srivaishnavan@ ...> wrote:Madhavakkannan V <srivaishnavan@ ...>[sriParakalaMatham] Interesting read - Srivaishnavism is an interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically, , acharya@ .com, nama-singapore, oppiliappan@

. com, parakalamatham, , desikasampradaya, bakthi-indonesia, andavan@ .com, Srisathyanarayanape rumal@ s.comFriday, August 14, 2009, 8:51 AMÂ http://www.hindu. com/fr/2009/ 08/14/stories/ 2009081450950100 .htm What does Vaishnavite scholar Vedanta Desika have in common with Catholic priest St. Francis? Prof.. Francis X. Clooney discusses the link in his latest book. ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -Srivaishnavism is an interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically. ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

-THEOLOGICAL APPROACH:

Prof. Francis X. Clooney. The coming together of any two religions for most of us could mean raised voices and bloodshed… quite paradoxical to what all religions preach. But Prof. Francis X. Clooney, S.J., Harvard University, and author of several books, has a different perspective. Prof. Clooney spoke about his book ‘Beyond Compare: St. Francis and Sri Vedanta Desika on Loving Surrender to God’, during a talk organised by Prakriti Foundation at Madras Terrace House recently. In his work, he compares the two preceptors who were from different times and countries, and practised different religions, but who were united in their approached the concept of surrender to God. Prof. Clooney pointed out that since his work was like the interpretative work of a dancer or a musician, there was a great deal of practice and hard work that went into it right from the choice of subject. “It took me several years to

narrow down on whom to compare�, he said. He added that “the minute you compare to celebrate one over the other, or compare to just get common quotes, it is not comparison in the real term.�So what does Vedanta Desika, the 13/14th century preceptor for Vaishnavites, have in common with St. Francis, a 17th century Catholic priest from Geneva? Both valued writing and in their written work, they hoped to pursue the devotee to perform a religious act itself. Both sought to transform the reader and used older texts to reinforce their message. Most important, both urged the reader to introspect and find out what it takes for him to surrender unconditionally to God. The book has several interesting passage on these topics. The audience was treated to a few enthralling readings. Catching up with Prof. Clooney after the session for a short interview, helped put the book in a greater context. Excerpts:Tell us a little about

your research. I work in certain traditions of classical Hinduism, including Mimamsa Vedanta and Srivaishnavism. Of course, my work as a professor leads me to write on other topics and themes at times, but these are my areas of focus in the study of Hinduism. Beyond these, I am also a comparative theologian, and so, I reflect on what I learn from Indian traditions alongside my understanding of my Christian bearings. And, to understand comparative study, I am also a bit of a historian, studying how Western Jesuits over the centuries have understood Hinduism.What got you interested in Srivaishnavism? It is a very interesting tradition, philosophically and theologically, and it shows us a complete religious way of life.. The fact that Srivaishnavism flourishes in both Tamil and Sanskrit makes it all the more beautiful. The poetry of Divya Prabandham in particular is very lovely. I also appreciate the Vaishnava temples, their

architecture, imagery, and the worship that takes place there. In many ways, I have found Srivaishnavism to be parallel to Roman Catholicism, with a similar depth, breadth, and wholeness.What is your mission on comparative religious studies and what forces do you see helping/hindering it? I am a professor at one of the oldest and best universities in the U..S., and also a Catholic priest and Jesuit. So my mission is academic â€" scholarly writing on topics of religious importance, and doing comparative study. It is also spiritual, in the sense that I believe that inter-religious truths and understanding are valuable to one and all. If my work helps people appreciate and learn from other religions, then I think I would have succeeded and will be very happy. If people become more convinced of the truth of their own tradition, with deep faith, that too is very good. Since there is a lot of religious misunderstanding and intolerance today,

my hope is that my work will probably show a way for people to relate to other religions more constructively and positively. Your future plans and interests… I have several book projects in mind, including more work on the Srivaishnava Bhagavatha Visaya, certain songs and commentaries compared with medieval Christian commentary on the Biblical Song of Songs. I have also been doing research on the Jesuit tradition of inter-religious learning in India, and may soon have something more to write on that.Written word Some of the books written by Prof. Clooney are: • Hindu God, Christian God: How Reason Helps to Break Down the Boundaries between Religions (2001), • Divine Mother, Blessed Mother: Hindu Goddesses and the Virgin Mary (2005), • Beyond Compare: St Francis de Sales and Sri Vedanta Desika on Loving Surrender to God (2008).--- End forwarded message

---

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