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Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?

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Posted

Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,

 

I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the

4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of

these.

 

My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly

and with convictions and fearlessly.

 

1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?

 

2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional

KP Method ?

 

3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in

the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but

references are thrown in here and there. So can

we pick up those rules which can help us in KP

traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?

 

4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old

ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful

predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other

books from the Disciples ?

 

5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and

improvisations, we as students are ready to change,

apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step

can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without

disturbing its Structure completely ?

 

6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.

should they straight away move towards the 4 step or

should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in

that process confuse themselves ?

 

7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the

asnwers are not available unless one applies the

4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such

charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional

KP does not seem to work ?

 

As requested above, please answer the above

honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily

look good, but be truthful to ourselves and the

student community.

 

Please do not advise that they are "not different systems"

or just an "improvisation", because both cannot be applied together.

 

regards/Bhaskar.

 

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Dear Bhaskar ji,

 

We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do comparison. This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor of KP. Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them unbiased and best of my capabilities.

 

 

 

 

1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?

 

Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and cons. With the time and research we will have to highlight those points. Also 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of awareness before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.

 

 

2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional

KP Method ?

As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems. Sunil ji himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any significant advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion, 4-step is still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have seen 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.   

 

3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in

the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but

references are thrown in here and there. So can

we pick up those rules which can help us in KP

traditional, or totally shift to the  4 Step ?

There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the methods are already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have seen shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often. The shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period of time in KP.  

 

4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old

ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful

predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other

books from the Disciples ?

This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or other practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers. More research and study is needed.

 

5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and

improvisations, we as students are ready to change,

apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step

can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without

disturbing its Structure completely ?

Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP. These are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.

 

6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.

should they straight away move towards the 4 step or

should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in

that process confuse themselves ?

As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP first. Other members can have different opinion.

 

7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the

asnwers are not available unless one applies the

4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such

charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional

KP does not seem to work ?

Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.

 

Most of the time it happens because we miss finer KP principles. The number of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that whichever system we use, there is some selections need to be made by astrologer, and there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen that no two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.

 

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,

 

I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the

4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of

these.

 

My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly

and with convictions and fearlessly.

 

1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?

 

2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional

KP Method ?

 

3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in

the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but

references are thrown in here and there. So can

we pick up those rules which can help us in KP

traditional, or totally shift to the  4 Step ?

 

4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old

ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful

predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other

books from the Disciples ?

 

5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and

improvisations, we as students are ready to change,

apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step

can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without

disturbing its Structure completely ?

 

6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.

should they straight away move towards the 4 step or

should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in

that process confuse themselves ?

 

7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the

asnwers are not available unless one applies the

4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such

charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional

KP does not seem to work ?

 

As requested above, please answer the above

honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily

look good, but be truthful to ourselves and the

student community.

 

Please do not advise that they are " not different systems "

or just an " improvisation " , because both cannot be applied together.  

 

regards/Bhaskar.

 

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Dear Punit Ji,4 Step theory is useful in finding the strength of the planet and its signficators.

All are based on KP only. May be the method of interpretation is different as per their experience. As you have said a lot of study is required.For example, in finding the favorable significators, I have found the following method from my knowledge which I have narrated earlier (as my Backward theory) is also more useful. But all are from the base of KP only. But we must try to find the possibilities to find the fruitful signficators.

To brief it: The signficators can be added apart from our regular rules as follows:A planet whose sublord is located in the star of a planet who is situated in a required cusp.Just for eg.,

Jupiter is situtated in 7.Saturn is in the star of JupiterThe lord of 7 is Moon. Sun is in the star of Moon The signficators of 7 is " Saturn, Jupiter, Sun and Moon " Now, If any planet is situated in the sub of Saturn (who is in the star of Jupiter) can also be taken as signficator. ie.,

We have to look at the Saturn (whose star lord is the occupant of 7) if he has come as sublord for any Planet.But in any case the planet and its star lord and its sub lord's strength have to be looked into to give the fruitful results.

This will be useful in finding the planets who are playing role in the  timing of events,Like wise, we can not come to any conclusion that we reached the task. Many of our members may have their own valuable findings which can be taken for further study

Another eg:If a planet is in its own sub whose star lord is not well placed.But if that star lord is posited is a favorable star. That planet will give good results.It means, if a planet is in its own sub , we have to study more on the star lord well.

 Thanks and RegardsAdithOn Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Bhaskar ji,

 

We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do comparison. This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor of KP. Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them unbiased and best of my capabilities.

 

 

 

 

1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?

 

Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and cons. With the time and research we will have to highlight those points. Also 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of awareness before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.

 

 

2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional

KP Method ?

As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems. Sunil ji himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any significant advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion, 4-step is still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have seen 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.   

 

 

3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in

the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but

references are thrown in here and there. So can

we pick up those rules which can help us in KP

traditional, or totally shift to the  4 Step ?

There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the methods are already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have seen shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often. The shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period of time in KP.  

 

 

4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old

ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful

predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other

books from the Disciples ?

This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or other practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers. More research and study is needed.

 

 

5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and

improvisations, we as students are ready to change,

apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step

can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without

disturbing its Structure completely ?

Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP. These are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.

 

 

6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.

should they straight away move towards the 4 step or

should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in

that process confuse themselves ?

As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP first. Other members can have different opinion.

 

7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the

asnwers are not available unless one applies the

4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such

charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional

KP does not seem to work ?

Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.

 

Most of the time it happens because we miss finer KP principles. The number of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that whichever system we use, there is some selections need to be made by astrologer, and there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen that no two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.

 

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,

 

I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the

4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of

these.

 

My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly

and with convictions and fearlessly.

 

1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?

 

2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional

KP Method ?

 

3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in

the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but

references are thrown in here and there. So can

we pick up those rules which can help us in KP

traditional, or totally shift to the  4 Step ?

 

4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old

ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful

predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other

books from the Disciples ?

 

5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and

improvisations, we as students are ready to change,

apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step

can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without

disturbing its Structure completely ?

 

6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.

should they straight away move towards the 4 step or

should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in

that process confuse themselves ?

 

7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the

asnwers are not available unless one applies the

4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such

charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional

KP does not seem to work ?

 

As requested above, please answer the above

honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily

look good, but be truthful to ourselves and the

student community.

 

Please do not advise that they are " not different systems "

or just an " improvisation " , because both cannot be applied together.  

 

regards/Bhaskar.

 

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Dear Punit ji,

 

Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight honest replies

to the queries.

 

I would like to mention now that my personal opinion is that the 4 Step

Theory may be too confusing at times with too many heavy weighted

rules which may not all be understood properly by a student, in complete.

 

Another fact which may not be of common knowledge,

is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which were

written many years ago) has used the apparent presently Titled,

4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing.

This may have now later come to be known as 4 Step with further

rules added to it , is another matter, but was actually KP in detail

and improvised.

 

I would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the usual

methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules,

rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally I

am not comfortable with.

 

(Let me also clear this, that I am in no way connected with selling of

above books, nor have any particular interest, except that these books

are really one of the finest, most simple to understand, and contains

all KP And improvised rules minus the confusions, so that one can

understand KP very easily rather than spending 10 years to understand

Readers or 4 Step).

 

warm regards,

Bhaskar.

 

 

, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar ji,> > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do comparison.> This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor of KP.> Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them unbiased and> best of my capabilities.> > > *1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*> Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and cons.> With the time and research we will have to highlight those points. Also> 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of awareness> before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.> > *2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional*> *KP Method ?*> As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems. Sunil ji> himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any significant> advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion, 4-step is> still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have seen> 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.> > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in*> *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*> *references are thrown in here and there. So can*> *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *> *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*> There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the methods are> already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have seen> shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often. The> shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period of time> in KP.> > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*> *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*> *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*> *books from the Disciples ?*> This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or other> practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers. More> research and study is needed.> > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and*> *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*> *apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *> *can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without *> *disturbing its Structure completely ?*> Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP. These> are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil> ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.> > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*> *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*> *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*> *that process confuse themselves ?*> As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP first. Other> members can have different opinion.> > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*> *asnwers are not available unless one applies the *> *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *> *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*> *KP does not seem to work ?*> Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.> > Most of the time it happens because we miss finer KP principles. The number> of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that whichever> system we use, there is some selections need to be made by astrologer, and> there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen that no> two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotishwrote:> > >> >> > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*> > **> > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the> > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of> > these.> >> > My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly> > and with convictions and fearlessly.> >> > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?> >> > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional> > KP Method ?> >> > 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in> > the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but> > references are thrown in here and there. So can> > we pick up those rules which can help us in KP> > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?> >> > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old> > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*> > *predictions,* as mentioned in the readers and the other> > books from the Disciples ?> >> > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and> > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,> > apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step> > can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without> > disturbing its Structure completely ?> >> > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.> > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or> > should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in> > that process *confuse* themselves ?> >> > 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the> > asnwers are not available unless one applies the> > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such> > charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional> > KP does not seem to work ?> >> > As requested above, please answer the above> > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily> > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the> > student community.> >> > Please do not advise that they are "not different systems"> > or just an "improvisation", because both cannot be applied together.> >> > regards/Bhaskar.> >> >> > > >>

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4-Step/

DIFFERENCES BETWEEN KP AND FOUR STEP METHOD.doc

DIFFRENCES BETWEEN KP & 4 STEP

 

 

, " adith kasinath.g.k " <gkadithkasinath

wrote:

>

> Dear Punit Ji,

>

> 4 Step theory is useful in finding the strength of the planet and its

> signficators.

>

> All are based on KP only. May be the method of interpretation is different

> as per their experience.

> As you have said a lot of study is required.

>

> For example, in finding the favorable significators, I have found the

> following method from my knowledge which I have narrated earlier (as my

> Backward theory) is also more useful. But all are from the base of KP only.

> But we must try to find the possibilities to find the fruitful signficators.

>

> To brief it: The signficators can be added apart from our regular rules as

> follows:

>

> *A planet whose sublord is located in the star of a planet who is situated

> in a required cusp.

> *

> *Just for eg*.,

> Jupiter is situtated in 7.

> Saturn is in the star of Jupiter

> The lord of 7 is Moon. Sun is in the star of Moon

> The signficators of 7 is " Saturn, Jupiter, Sun and Moon "

>

> Now, *If any planet is situated in the sub of Saturn (who is in the star of

> Jupiter) can also be taken as signficator*. ie.,

> We have to look at the Saturn (whose star lord is the occupant of 7) if he

> has come as sublord for any Planet.

>

> But in any case the planet and its star lord and its sub lord's strength

> have to be looked into to give the fruitful results.

> This will be useful in finding the planets who are playing role in the

> timing of events,

>

> Like wise, we can not come to any conclusion that we reached the task. Many

> of our members may have their own valuable findings which can be taken for

> further study

>

> *Another eg:*

> If a planet is in its own sub whose star lord is not well placed.

> But if that star lord is posited is a favorable star. That planet will give

> good results.

> It means, if a planet is in its own sub , we have to study more on the star

> lord well.

>

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Adith

>

> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:

>

>

> >

> > Dear Bhaskar ji,

> >

> > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do comparison.

> > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor of KP.

> > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them unbiased and

> > best of my capabilities.

> >

> >

> > *1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*

> > Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and cons.

> > With the time and research we will have to highlight those points. Also

> > 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of awareness

> > before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.

> >

> > *2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional*

> > *KP Method ?*

> > As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems. Sunil ji

> > himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any significant

> > advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion, 4-step is

> > still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have seen

> > 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.

> >

> > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in*

> > *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*

> > *references are thrown in here and there. So can*

> > *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *

> > *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*

> > There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the methods

> > are already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have

> > seen shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often.

> > The shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period of

> > time in KP.

> >

> > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*

> > *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*

> > *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*

> > *books from the Disciples ?*

> > This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or other

> > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers. More

> > research and study is needed.

> >

> > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and*

> > *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*

> > *apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *

> > *can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without *

> > *disturbing its Structure completely ?*

> > Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP. These

> > are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil

> > ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.

> >

> > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*

> > *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*

> > *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*

> > *that process confuse themselves ?*

> > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP first. Other

> > members can have different opinion.

> >

> > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*

> > *asnwers are not available unless one applies the *

> > *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *

> > *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*

> > *KP does not seem to work ?*

> > Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.

> >

> > Most of the time it happens because we miss finer KP principles. The number

> > of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that whichever

> > system we use, there is some selections need to be made by astrologer, and

> > there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen that no

> > two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.

> >

> > Thanks & Regards,

> >

> > Punit Pandey

> >

> >

> > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotishwrote:

> >

> >>

> >>

> >> *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*

> >> **

> >> I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the

> >> 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of

> >> these.

> >>

> >> My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly

> >> and with convictions and fearlessly.

> >>

> >> 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?

> >>

> >> 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional

> >> KP Method ?

> >>

> >> 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in

> >> the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but

> >> references are thrown in here and there. So can

> >> we pick up those rules which can help us in KP

> >> traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?

> >>

> >> 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old

> >> ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*

> >> *predictions,* as mentioned in the readers and the other

> >> books from the Disciples ?

> >>

> >> 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and

> >> improvisations, we as students are ready to change,

> >> apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step

> >> can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without

> >> disturbing its Structure completely ?

> >>

> >> 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.

> >> should they straight away move towards the 4 step or

> >> should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in

> >> that process *confuse* themselves ?

> >>

> >> 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the

> >> asnwers are not available unless one applies the

> >> 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such

> >> charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional

> >> KP does not seem to work ?

> >>

> >> As requested above, please answer the above

> >> honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily

> >> look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the

> >> student community.

> >>

> >> Please do not advise that they are " not different systems "

> >> or just an " improvisation " , because both cannot be applied together.

> >>

> >> regards/Bhaskar.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

>

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Dear Members,As far as my knowledge goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principles only adding and /or improvising some rules. Further the method of working out signification of each planet is entirely different. To differentiate this aspect from KP (and not get confused as KP) it was suitably titled as "4 Step Theory". Therefore to understand 4 step, knowledge of KP as given in KSK's Readers is necessary. Secondly, in my personal opinion, I do not find 4 step theory confusing. There are

very few rules which can be understood even by a beginner. In fact I am very comfortable with 4 step theory.Late Mr. Suresh shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi and these were translated in Hindi and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books must be widely used by many KP astrologers. Then I fail to understand why the fact that "he used apparent presently Titled, 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing" may not be of common knowledge? But if this is a fact, then credit must go to him. Frankly speaking since I have not read his books I cannot comment on this. But there must be many members in this forum who have read his books, can

throw some light on this. Regards,Subhash EkatreBhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Sent: Sun, December 20, 2009 6:26:09 AM Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?

 

 

Dear Punit ji,

 

Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight honest replies

to the queries.

 

I would like to mention now that my personal opinion is that the 4 Step

Theory may be too confusing at times with too many heavy weighted

rules which may not all be understood properly by a student, in complete.

 

Another fact which may not be of common knowledge,

is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which were

written many years ago) has used the apparent presently Titled,

4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing.

This may have now later come to be known as 4 Step with further

rules added to it , is another matter, but was actually KP in detail

and improvised.

 

I would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the usual

methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules,

rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally I

am not comfortable with.

 

(Let me also clear this, that I am in no way connected with selling of

above books, nor have any particular interest, except that these books

are really one of the finest, most simple to understand, and contains

all KP And improvised rules minus the confusions, so that one can

understand KP very easily rather than spending 10 years to understand

Readers or 4 Step).

 

warm regards,

Bhaskar.

 

 

@gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar ji,> > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do comparison.> This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor of KP.> Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them unbiased and> best of my capabilities.> > > *1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*> Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and cons.> With the time and research we will have to highlight those points. Also> 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of awareness> before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.> > *2) In case the latter, than should we

discard the Traditional*> *KP Method ?*> As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems. Sunil ji> himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any significant> advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion, 4-step is> still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have seen> 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.> > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in*> *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*> *references are thrown in here and there. So can*> *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *> *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*> There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the methods are> already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have seen> shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and

cuspal) more often. The> shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period of time> in KP.> > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*> *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*> *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*> *books from the Disciples ?*> This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or other> practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers. More> research and study is needed.> > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and*> *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*> *apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *> *can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without *> *disturbing its Structure completely ?*> Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP. These> are

also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil> ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.> > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*> *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*> *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*> *that process confuse themselves ?*> As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP first. Other> members can have different opinion.> > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*> *asnwers are not available unless one applies the *> *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *> *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*> *KP does not seem to work ?*> Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.> > Most of the time it happens because we miss finer KP principles. The number> of such

charts are not very high. Though we must remember that whichever> system we use, there is some selections need to be made by astrologer, and> there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen that no> two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...wrote:> > >> >> > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*> > **> > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the> > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of> > these.> >> > My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly> > and with convictions and fearlessly.> >> > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?> >> >

2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional> > KP Method ?> >> > 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in> > the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but> > references are thrown in here and there. So can> > we pick up those rules which can help us in KP> > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?> >> > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old> > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*> > *predictions, * as mentioned in the readers and the other> > books from the Disciples ?> >> > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and> > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,> > apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step> > can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional*

without> > disturbing its Structure completely ?> >> > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.> > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or> > should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in> > that process *confuse* themselves ?> >> > 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the> > asnwers are not available unless one applies the> > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such> > charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional> > KP does not seem to work ?> >> > As requested above, please answer the above> > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily> > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the> > student community.> >> > Please do not advise that they are "not different systems"> >

or just an "improvisation" , because both cannot be applied together.> >> > regards/Bhaskar.> >> >> > > >>

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Dear Subhash,

I completely agree with you...

Yogesh Lajmi

 

 

 

Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare Sent: Mon, 21 December, 2009 5:02:39 AMRe: Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?

 

 

Dear Members,

 

As far as my knowledge goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principles only adding and /or improvising some rules. Further the method of working out signification of each planet is entirely different. To differentiate this aspect from KP (and not get confused as KP) it was suitably titled as "4 Step Theory". Therefore to understand 4 step, knowledge of KP as given in KSK's Readers is necessary.

 

Secondly, in my personal opinion, I do not find 4 step theory confusing. There are very few rules which can be understood even by a beginner. In fact I am very comfortable with 4 step theory.

 

Late Mr.. Suresh shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi and these were translated in Hindi and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books must be widely used by many KP astrologers. Then I fail to understand why the fact that "he used apparent presently Titled, 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing" may not be of common knowledge? But if this is a fact, then credit must go to him. Frankly speaking since I have not read his books I cannot comment on this. But there must be many members in this forum who have read his books, can throw some light on this.

 

Regards,

Subhash Ekatre

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>@gro ups.comSun, December 20, 2009 6:26:09 AM Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?

 

Dear Punit ji,

 

Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight honest replies

to the queries.

 

I would like to mention now that my personal opinion is that the 4 Step

Theory may be too confusing at times with too many heavy weighted

rules which may not all be understood properly by a student, in complete.

 

Another fact which may not be of common knowledge,

is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which were

written many years ago) has used the apparent presently Titled,

4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing.

This may have now later come to be known as 4 Step with further

rules added to it , is another matter, but was actually KP in detail

and improvised.

 

I would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the usual

methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules,

rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally I

am not comfortable with.

 

(Let me also clear this, that I am in no way connected with selling of

above books, nor have any particular interest, except that these books

are really one of the finest, most simple to understand, and contains

all KP And improvised rules minus the confusions, so that one can

understand KP very easily rather than spending 10 years to understand

Readers or 4 Step).

 

warm regards,

Bhaskar.

 

 

@gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar ji,> > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do comparison.> This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor of KP.> Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them unbiased and> best of my capabilities..> > > *1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*> Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and cons.> With the time and research we will have to highlight those points. Also> 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of awareness> before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.> > *2) In case the latter, than

should we discard the Traditional*> *KP Method ?*> As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems. Sunil ji> himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any significant> advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion, 4-step is> still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have seen> 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.> > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in*> *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*> *references are thrown in here and there. So can*> *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *> *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*> There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the methods are> already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have seen> shift towards using sub-lord (both

planetary and cuspal) more often. The> shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period of time> in KP.> > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*> *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*> *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*> *books from the Disciples ?*> This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or other> practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers. More> research and study is needed.> > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and*> *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*> *apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *> *can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without *> *disturbing its Structure completely ?*> Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP.

These> are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil> ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.> > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*> *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*> *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*> *that process confuse themselves ?*> As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP first. Other> members can have different opinion.> > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*> *asnwers are not available unless one applies the *> *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *> *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*> *KP does not seem to work ?*> Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.> > Most of the time it happens because we miss finer KP principles. The

number> of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that whichever> system we use, there is some selections need to be made by astrologer, and> there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen that no> two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...wrote:> > >> >> > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*> > **> > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the> > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of> > these.> >> > My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly> > and with convictions and fearlessly.> >> > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step

?> >> > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional> > KP Method ?> >> > 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in> > the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but> > references are thrown in here and there. So can> > we pick up those rules which can help us in KP> > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?> >> > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old> > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*> > *predictions, * as mentioned in the readers and the other> > books from the Disciples ?> >> > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and> > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,> > apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step> > can be picked up and

*applied to the Traditional* without> > disturbing its Structure completely ?> >> > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.> > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or> > should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in> > that process *confuse* themselves ?> >> > 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the> > asnwers are not available unless one applies the> > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such> > charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional> > KP does not seem to work ?> >> > As requested above, please answer the above> > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily> > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the> > student community.> >> > Please do not advise that they are "not

different systems"> > or just an "improvisation" , because both cannot be applied together.> >> > regards/Bhaskar.> >> >> > > >>

 

 

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Dear Subhash ji,

// Then I fail to understand why the fact that "he used apparent presently Titled, 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing" may not be of common knowledge? //

What is today known as 4 Step, most of the rules have already been used by Shri Sahasne in his books written many years ago, is what may not be common knowledge, is what I am tring to say Sir. Removing something from KP, then adding another set of confusing rules to it and naming it "4 Step" is not what I am comfortable with. Shri Sahasne has made improvisations to KP in his books, mentioned the areas where he feels further research must be done, accepted his dissatisfactions in certain areas, but never claimed to be originator of any new theories.

If You have understood the 4 Step well, then you may be fortunate. Any improvisations if makes some sense and is not confusing to a student - Beginner or Advanced level student, is always welcome. I did not even understand properly your translation in the Files Section where a 58 KB File on Fout Step theory Rules are, put up. There are about 10 Ruless mentioned which themselves contain many others within them. Understanding the English in any article is another matter, understanding the rules is a seperate matter, and application of them is again another junction. When to apply which rules is again confusing. This is my personal opinion as I mentioned before.

About 4 Step I will refrain from commenting further.

kind regards,

Bhaskar.

 

 

, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare wrote:>> Dear Members,> > As far as my knowledge goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principles only adding and /or improvising some rules. Further the method of working out signification of each planet is entirely different. To differentiate this aspect from KP (and not get confused as KP) it was suitably titled as "4 Step Theory". Therefore to understand 4 step, knowledge of KP as given in KSK's Readers is necessary. > > Secondly, in my personal opinion, I do not find 4 step theory confusing. There are very few rules which can be understood even by a beginner. In fact I am very comfortable with 4 step theory.> > Late Mr. Suresh shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi and these were translated in Hindi and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books must be widely used by many KP astrologers. Then I fail to understand why the fact that"he used apparent presently Titled, 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing" may not be of common knowledge? But if this is a fact, then credit must go to him. Frankly speaking since I have not read his books I cannot comment on this. But there must be many members in this forum who have read his books, can throw some light on this. > > Regards,> Subhash Ekatre> > > > > > > ________________________________> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish > Sun, December 20, 2009 6:26:09 AM> Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?> > > Dear Punit ji,> > Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight honest replies> to the queries.> > I would like to mention now that my personal opinion is that the 4 Step> Theory may be too confusing at times with too many heavy weighted> rules which may not all be understood properly by a student, in complete. > > Another fact which may not be of common knowledge,> is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which were> written many years ago) has used the apparent presently Titled,> 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing. > This may have now later come to be known as 4 Step with further > rules added to it , is another matter, but was actually KP in detail> and improvised. > > I would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the usual > methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules, > rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally I > am not comfortable with.> > (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way connected with selling of> above books, nor have any particular interest, except that these books> are really one of the finest, most simple to understand, and contains> all KP And improvised rules minus the confusions, so that one can> understand KP very easily rather than spending 10 years to understand> Readers or 4 Step).> > warm regards,> Bhaskar.> > > > > @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey punitp@ wrote:> >> > Dear Bhaskar ji,> > > > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do comparison.> > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor of KP.> > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them unbiased and> > best of my capabilities.> > > > > > *1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*> > Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and cons.> > With the time and research we will have to highlight those points. Also> > 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of awareness> > before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.> > > > *2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional*> > *KP Method ?*> > As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems. Sunil ji> > himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any significant> > advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion, 4-step is> > still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have seen> > 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.> > > > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in*> > *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*> > *references are thrown in here and there. So can*> > *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *> > *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*> > There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the methods are> > already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have seen> > shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often. The> > shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period of time> > in KP.> > > > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*> > *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*> > *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*> > *books from the Disciples ?*> > This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or other> > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers. More> > research and study is needed.> > > > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and*> > *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*> > *apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *> > *can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without *> > *disturbing its Structure completely ?*> > Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP. These> > are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil> > ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.> > > > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*> > *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*> > *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*> > *that process confuse themselves ?*> > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP first. Other> > members can have different opinion.> > > > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*> > *asnwers are not available unless one applies the *> > *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *> > *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*> > *KP does not seem to work ?*> > Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.> > > > Most of the time it happens because we miss finer KP principles. The number> > of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that whichever> > system we use, there is some selections need to be made by astrologer, and> > there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen that no> > two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.> > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...wrote:> > > > >> > >> > > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*> > > **> > > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the> > > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of> > > these.> > >> > > My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly> > > and with convictions and fearlessly.> > >> > > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?> > >> > > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional> > > KP Method ?> > >> > > 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in> > > the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but> > > references are thrown in here and there. So can> > > we pick up those rules which can help us in KP> > > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?> > >> > > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old> > > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*> > > *predictions, * as mentioned in the readers and the other> > > books from the Disciples ?> > >> > > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and> > > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,> > > apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step> > > can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without> > > disturbing its Structure completely ?> > >> > > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.> > > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or> > > should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in> > > that process *confuse* themselves ?> > >> > > 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the> > > asnwers are not available unless one applies the> > > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such> > > charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional> > > KP does not seem to work ?> > >> > > As requested above, please answer the above> > > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily> > > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the> > > student community.> > >> > > Please do not advise that they are "not different systems"> > > or just an "improvisation" , because both cannot be applied together.> > >> > > regards/Bhaskar.> > >> > >> > > > > >> >>

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dear bhaskar,

thanks for your personal views about 4 step theory.

i dont understand then why you put up such a query

about 4 step theory?

 

punitji rightly said that it is based on kp method

and himself agrres that this is a kp forum and thats why

bias opinion is placed,anyway.

 

dear bhaskar,4 step theory is totally developed by me

and it has nothing to do with shahasane's books.actually

the books are only edited and not fully written by shahasane.

all the articles were from " nakshtra sanchit darpan " magazine

edited by late hasbe guruji...this is for your information.

 

in my opinion,4 step theory is the simplest theory based on

kpmethod.many logers switched over to this theory in maharashtra.

 

thanks

 

-sunil gondhalekar

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

>

> Dear Punit ji, Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight

> honest replies to the queries. I would like to mention now that my

> personal opinion is that the 4 Step Theory may be too confusing at times

> with too many heavy weighted rules which may not all be understood

> properly by a student, in complete. Another fact which may not be of

> common knowledge, is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which

> were written many years ago) has used the apparent presently Titled, 4

> Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing. This

> may have now later come to be known as 4 Step with further rules added

> to it , is another matter, but was actually KP in detail and improvised.

> I would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the usual

> methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules,

> rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally I

> am not comfortable with. (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way

> connected with selling of above books, nor have any particular interest,

> except that these books are really one of the finest, most simple to

> understand, and contains all KP And improvised rules minus the

> confusions, so that one can understand KP very easily rather than

> spending 10 years to understand Readers or 4 Step). warm regards,

> Bhaskar.

> , Punit Pandey <punitp@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Bhaskar ji,

> >

> > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do

> comparison.

> > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor of

> KP.

> > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them unbiased

> and

> > best of my capabilities.

> >

> >

> > *1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*

> > Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and

> cons.

> > With the time and research we will have to highlight those points.

> Also

> > 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of awareness

> > before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.

> >

> > *2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional*

> > *KP Method ?*

> > As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems.

> Sunil ji

> > himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any significant

> > advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion,

> 4-step is

> > still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have

> seen

> > 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.

> >

> > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in*

> > *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*

> > *references are thrown in here and there. So can*

> > *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *

> > *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*

> > There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the

> methods are

> > already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have

> seen

> > shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often.

> The

> > shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period of

> time

> > in KP.

> >

> > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*

> > *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*

> > *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*

> > *books from the Disciples ?*

> > This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or

> other

> > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers. More

> > research and study is needed.

> >

> > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and*

> > *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*

> > *apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *

> > *can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without *

> > *disturbing its Structure completely ?*

> > Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP.

> These

> > are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil

> > ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.

> >

> > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*

> > *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*

> > *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*

> > *that process confuse themselves ?*

> > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP first.

> Other

> > members can have different opinion.

> >

> > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*

> > *asnwers are not available unless one applies the *

> > *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *

> > *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*

> > *KP does not seem to work ?*

> > Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.

> >

> > Most of the time it happens because we miss finer KP principles. The

> number

> > of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that

> whichever

> > system we use, there is some selections need to be made by astrologer,

> and

> > there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen

> that no

> > two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.

> >

> > Thanks & Regards,

> >

> > Punit Pandey

> >

> >

> > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish:

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*

> > > **

> > > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the

> > > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of

> > > these.

> > >

> > > My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly

> > > and with convictions and fearlessly.

> > >

> > > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?

> > >

> > > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional

> > > KP Method ?

> > >

> > > 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in

> > > the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but

> > > references are thrown in here and there. So can

> > > we pick up those rules which can help us in KP

> > > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?

> > >

> > > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old

> > > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*

> > > *predictions,* as mentioned in the readers and the other

> > > books from the Disciples ?

> > >

> > > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and

> > > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,

> > > apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step

> > > can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without

> > > disturbing its Structure completely ?

> > >

> > > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.

> > > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or

> > > should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in

> > > that process *confuse* themselves ?

> > >

> > > 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the

> > > asnwers are not available unless one applies the

> > > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such

> > > charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional

> > > KP does not seem to work ?

> > >

> > > As requested above, please answer the above

> > > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily

> > > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the

> > > student community.

> > >

> > > Please do not advise that they are " not different systems "

> > > or just an " improvisation " , because both cannot be applied together.

> > >

> > > regards/Bhaskar.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

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Sir,

 

I have nothing against Your goodself or the theory itself, nor any contentions

about who is the originator. My main purpose is that the students must be told

what is better for them to be studied primarily, and then later on secondarily.

Which is why this query was put up, so that matters are cleared once again.

 

I have also purchased your book of 40 Pages on 4 step theory costing Rs.500- 2

years ago, from which i was not able to understand anything. Please consider

this my inability and not take it otherwise please.

 

Whether articles written by Sahasne ji were edited from late Kasbe gurujis

magazine or not, I am not sure, and neither am intersted in knowing so. I do not

think that anybody of his stature would straightaway lift it and then write it

in his name. I do not believe this. If he has done so, then he must have taken

the permissions to do so. But if he had done so, he would have mentioned it,

which he has not. So no point in talking who wrote what and from where

especially about persons who are no more alive to defend themselves.

 

The 4 Step theory if You are the originator, then its fine. I wish to study it,

but am not able to understand how. Can You guide us how to study it in the

simplest form, as you say its the simplest theory based on KP ? Another point,

some steps of 4 step theory are already been written by Shri Sahasne much before

your goodself introduced this as 4 Step. In that case the credit must go to Shri

Kasbe ji as the originator, since you say that sahasneji has written all from

Shri Kasbejis articles ? Right ?

 

Anyway we are not here to argue or discuss on such minor matters. If 4 step

theory is good, then please present it in a simple form for the students benefit

please, or write another book taking pains to fill it with content which

simplifies the whole theory, so that the readers and students can take advantage

of the same, is my only request you to.

 

Kind regards,

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " sunilalaka " <sunilalaka wrote:

>

> dear bhaskar,

> thanks for your personal views about 4 step theory.

> i dont understand then why you put up such a query

> about 4 step theory?

>

> punitji rightly said that it is based on kp method

> and himself agrres that this is a kp forum and thats why

> bias opinion is placed,anyway.

>

> dear bhaskar,4 step theory is totally developed by me

> and it has nothing to do with shahasane's books.actually

> the books are only edited and not fully written by shahasane.

> all the articles were from " nakshtra sanchit darpan " magazine

> edited by late hasbe guruji...this is for your information.

>

> in my opinion,4 step theory is the simplest theory based on

> kpmethod.many logers switched over to this theory in maharashtra.

>

> thanks

>

> -sunil gondhalekar

>

>

, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Punit ji, Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight

> > honest replies to the queries. I would like to mention now that my

> > personal opinion is that the 4 Step Theory may be too confusing at times

> > with too many heavy weighted rules which may not all be understood

> > properly by a student, in complete. Another fact which may not be of

> > common knowledge, is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which

> > were written many years ago) has used the apparent presently Titled, 4

> > Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing. This

> > may have now later come to be known as 4 Step with further rules added

> > to it , is another matter, but was actually KP in detail and improvised.

> > I would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the usual

> > methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules,

> > rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally I

> > am not comfortable with. (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way

> > connected with selling of above books, nor have any particular interest,

> > except that these books are really one of the finest, most simple to

> > understand, and contains all KP And improvised rules minus the

> > confusions, so that one can understand KP very easily rather than

> > spending 10 years to understand Readers or 4 Step). warm regards,

> > Bhaskar.

> > , Punit Pandey <punitp@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Bhaskar ji,

> > >

> > > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do

> > comparison.

> > > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor of

> > KP.

> > > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them unbiased

> > and

> > > best of my capabilities.

> > >

> > >

> > > *1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*

> > > Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and

> > cons.

> > > With the time and research we will have to highlight those points.

> > Also

> > > 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of awareness

> > > before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.

> > >

> > > *2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional*

> > > *KP Method ?*

> > > As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems.

> > Sunil ji

> > > himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any significant

> > > advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion,

> > 4-step is

> > > still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have

> > seen

> > > 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.

> > >

> > > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in*

> > > *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*

> > > *references are thrown in here and there. So can*

> > > *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *

> > > *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*

> > > There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the

> > methods are

> > > already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have

> > seen

> > > shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often.

> > The

> > > shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period of

> > time

> > > in KP.

> > >

> > > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*

> > > *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*

> > > *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*

> > > *books from the Disciples ?*

> > > This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or

> > other

> > > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers. More

> > > research and study is needed.

> > >

> > > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and*

> > > *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*

> > > *apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *

> > > *can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without *

> > > *disturbing its Structure completely ?*

> > > Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP.

> > These

> > > are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil

> > > ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.

> > >

> > > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*

> > > *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*

> > > *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*

> > > *that process confuse themselves ?*

> > > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP first.

> > Other

> > > members can have different opinion.

> > >

> > > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*

> > > *asnwers are not available unless one applies the *

> > > *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *

> > > *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*

> > > *KP does not seem to work ?*

> > > Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.

> > >

> > > Most of the time it happens because we miss finer KP principles. The

> > number

> > > of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that

> > whichever

> > > system we use, there is some selections need to be made by astrologer,

> > and

> > > there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen

> > that no

> > > two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.

> > >

> > > Thanks & Regards,

> > >

> > > Punit Pandey

> > >

> > >

> > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@:

> > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*

> > > > **

> > > > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the

> > > > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of

> > > > these.

> > > >

> > > > My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly

> > > > and with convictions and fearlessly.

> > > >

> > > > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?

> > > >

> > > > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional

> > > > KP Method ?

> > > >

> > > > 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in

> > > > the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but

> > > > references are thrown in here and there. So can

> > > > we pick up those rules which can help us in KP

> > > > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?

> > > >

> > > > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old

> > > > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*

> > > > *predictions,* as mentioned in the readers and the other

> > > > books from the Disciples ?

> > > >

> > > > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and

> > > > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,

> > > > apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step

> > > > can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without

> > > > disturbing its Structure completely ?

> > > >

> > > > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.

> > > > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or

> > > > should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in

> > > > that process *confuse* themselves ?

> > > >

> > > > 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the

> > > > asnwers are not available unless one applies the

> > > > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such

> > > > charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional

> > > > KP does not seem to work ?

> > > >

> > > > As requested above, please answer the above

> > > > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily

> > > > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the

> > > > student community.

> > > >

> > > > Please do not advise that they are " not different systems "

> > > > or just an " improvisation " , because both cannot be applied together.

> > > >

> > > > regards/Bhaskar.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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Dear Bhaskar ji,When you say that most of the rules (of 4 step) have already been used by Late Shri. Shahasane you must have presumably understood them. Therefore it is hard to believe that an astrologer of your caliber still find it confusing. Your allegation that these rules are already used by Mr. Shahasane ji seems to be baseless if you say you did not understand the rules at all. It was ruled by moderator Mr. Punit Pandey ji that KP is what is described in KP Readers. Any new theories though derived from KP....such as Late Dr. Kar's Theory, K. Baskaran's theory etc are named differently to identify themselves from KP. 4 step theory is also one such theory. Can it be termed as KP just because you are not

comfortable with naming it this way? It is your decision not to comment on 4 step any more, however any constructive comments are always welcome. No system is complete in itself and there is always scope for improvement. Please do not deprive the group members to gain from your vast knowledge and experience.Thanks and Regards,Subhash EktareBhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Sent: Mon, December 21,

2009 2:56:43 AM Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?

 

 

Dear Subhash ji,

// Then I fail to understand why the fact that "he used apparent presently Titled, 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing" may not be of common knowledge? //

What is today known as 4 Step, most of the rules have already been used by Shri Sahasne in his books written many years ago, is what may not be common knowledge, is what I am tring to say Sir. Removing something from KP, then adding another set of confusing rules to it and naming it "4 Step" is not what I am comfortable with. Shri Sahasne has made improvisations to KP in his books, mentioned the areas where he feels further research must be done, accepted his dissatisfactions in certain areas, but never claimed to be originator of any new theories.

If You have understood the 4 Step well, then you may be fortunate. Any improvisations if makes some sense and is not confusing to a student - Beginner or Advanced level student, is always welcome. I did not even understand properly your translation in the Files Section where a 58 KB File on Fout Step theory Rules are, put up. There are about 10 Ruless mentioned which themselves contain many others within them. Understanding the English in any article is another matter, understanding the rules is a seperate matter, and application of them is again another junction. When to apply which rules is again confusing. This is my personal opinion as I mentioned before.

About 4 Step I will refrain from commenting further.

kind regards,

Bhaskar.

 

 

@gro ups.com, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Members,> > As far as my knowledge goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principles only adding and /or improvising some rules. Further the method of working out signification of each planet is entirely different. To differentiate this aspect from KP (and not get confused as KP) it was suitably titled as "4 Step Theory". Therefore to understand 4 step, knowledge of KP as given in KSK's Readers is necessary. > > Secondly, in my personal opinion, I do not find 4 step theory confusing. There are very few rules which can be understood even by a beginner. In fact I am very comfortable with 4 step theory.> > Late Mr. Suresh shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi and these were translated in Hindi and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books must be widely used by many KP astrologers. Then I fail to

understand why the fact that"he used apparent presently Titled, 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing" may not be of common knowledge? But if this is a fact, then credit must go to him. Frankly speaking since I have not read his books I cannot comment on this. But there must be many members in this forum who have read his books, can throw some light on this. > > Regards,> Subhash Ekatre> > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> @gro ups.com> Sun, December 20, 2009 6:26:09 AM> Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?> > > Dear Punit ji,> > Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight honest replies> to the queries.> > I would like to mention now that my personal

opinion is that the 4 Step> Theory may be too confusing at times with too many heavy weighted> rules which may not all be understood properly by a student, in complete. > > Another fact which may not be of common knowledge,> is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which were> written many years ago) has used the apparent presently Titled,> 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing. > This may have now later come to be known as 4 Step with further > rules added to it , is another matter, but was actually KP in detail> and improvised. > > I would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the usual > methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules, > rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally I > am not comfortable with.> > (Let me also clear this,

that I am in no way connected with selling of> above books, nor have any particular interest, except that these books> are really one of the finest, most simple to understand, and contains> all KP And improvised rules minus the confusions, so that one can> understand KP very easily rather than spending 10 years to understand> Readers or 4 Step).> > warm regards,> Bhaskar.> > > > > @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey punitp@ wrote:> >> > Dear Bhaskar ji,> > > > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do comparison.> > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor of KP.> > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them unbiased and> > best of my capabilities.> > > > > > *1) Which system is better.

The KP or the 4 Step ?*> > Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and cons.> > With the time and research we will have to highlight those points. Also> > 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of awareness> > before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.> > > > *2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional*> > *KP Method ?*> > As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems. Sunil ji> > himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any significant> > advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion, 4-step is> > still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have seen> > 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.> > > > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there

in*> > *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*> > *references are thrown in here and there. So can*> > *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *> > *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*> > There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the methods are> > already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have seen> > shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often. The> > shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period of time> > in KP.> > > > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*> > *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*> > *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*> > *books from the Disciples ?*> > This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners,

nor 4-step or other> > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers. More> > research and study is needed.> > > > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and*> > *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*> > *apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *> > *can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without *> > *disturbing its Structure completely ?*> > Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP. These> > are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil> > ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.> > > > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*> > *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*> > *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*> > *that process

confuse themselves ?*> > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP first. Other> > members can have different opinion.> > > > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*> > *asnwers are not available unless one applies the *> > *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *> > *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*> > *KP does not seem to work ?*> > Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.> > > > Most of the time it happens because we miss finer KP principles. The number> > of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that whichever> > system we use, there is some selections need to be made by astrologer, and> > there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen that no> > two KP or 4-step

astrologers came up with the same answer.> > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...wrote:> > > > >> > >> > > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*> > > **> > > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the> > > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of> > > these.> > >> > > My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly> > > and with convictions and fearlessly.> > >> > > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?> > >> > > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional> > > KP Method ?> > >> > > 3) Certain rules

considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in> > > the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but> > > references are thrown in here and there. So can> > > we pick up those rules which can help us in KP> > > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?> > >> > > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old> > > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*> > > *predictions, * as mentioned in the readers and the other> > > books from the Disciples ?> > >> > > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and> > > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,> > > apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step> > > can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without> > > disturbing its Structure completely

?> > >> > > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.> > > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or> > > should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in> > > that process *confuse* themselves ?> > >> > > 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the> > > asnwers are not available unless one applies the> > > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such> > > charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional> > > KP does not seem to work ?> > >> > > As requested above, please answer the above> > > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily> > > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the> > > student community.> > >> > > Please do not advise that they are "not

different systems"> > > or just an "improvisation" , because both cannot be applied together.> > >> > > regards/Bhaskar.> > >> > >> > > > > >> >>

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dear subhashji,

Late shri. suresh shahasane was a brilliant kp astrologer.his contribution in training kp

students was great.He conducted for 3 years kp astrology conferances for which I was witness.

I was a participant .He encouraged new students in prediction.his astrology conferances were

directly explanation of 60 horoscopes,in 3days.he advocated planet signification a simple way

to analyse horoscope.he was a critic of 4 step theory.In his book jyotishveda in marathi ,he criticised

this method illustrating examples in support of it.

he said if planet is in its own star and also sub how you are going to write your four steps?

According his practical experiences when planet is in its own star and in its own sub we will

get same steps repetedly hence take the significance of subsub.

GOOD LUCK

shrikantjin

 

 

 

Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi Cc: Subhash Ektare <subhashMon, 21 December, 2009 3:05:03 PMRe: Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?

 

 

Dear Subhash,

I completely agree with you...

Yogesh Lajmi

 

 

 

Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ >@gro ups.comMon, 21 December, 2009 5:02:39 AMRe: Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?

 

 

Dear Members,

 

As far as my knowledge goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principles only adding and /or improvising some rules. Further the method of working out signification of each planet is entirely different. To differentiate this aspect from KP (and not get confused as KP) it was suitably titled as "4 Step Theory". Therefore to understand 4 step, knowledge of KP as given in KSK's Readers is necessary.

 

Secondly, in my personal opinion, I do not find 4 step theory confusing. There are very few rules which can be understood even by a beginner. In fact I am very comfortable with 4 step theory.

 

Late Mr.. Suresh shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi and these were translated in Hindi and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books must be widely used by many KP astrologers. Then I fail to understand why the fact that "he used apparent presently Titled, 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing" may not be of common knowledge? But if this is a fact, then credit must go to him. Frankly speaking since I have not read his books I cannot comment on this. But there must be many members in this forum who have read his books, can throw some light on this.

 

Regards,

Subhash Ekatre

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>@gro ups.comSun, December 20, 2009 6:26:09 AM Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?

 

Dear Punit ji,

 

Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight honest replies

to the queries.

 

I would like to mention now that my personal opinion is that the 4 Step

Theory may be too confusing at times with too many heavy weighted

rules which may not all be understood properly by a student, in complete.

 

Another fact which may not be of common knowledge,

is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which were

written many years ago) has used the apparent presently Titled,

4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing.

This may have now later come to be known as 4 Step with further

rules added to it , is another matter, but was actually KP in detail

and improvised.

 

I would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the usual

methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules,

rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally I

am not comfortable with.

 

(Let me also clear this, that I am in no way connected with selling of

above books, nor have any particular interest, except that these books

are really one of the finest, most simple to understand, and contains

all KP And improvised rules minus the confusions, so that one can

understand KP very easily rather than spending 10 years to understand

Readers or 4 Step).

 

warm regards,

Bhaskar.

 

 

@gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar ji,> > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do comparison.> This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor of KP.> Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them unbiased and> best of my capabilities. .> > > *1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*> Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and cons.> With the time and research we will have to highlight those points. Also> 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of awareness> before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.> > *2) In case the latter, than

should we discard the Traditional*> *KP Method ?*> As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems. Sunil ji> himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any significant> advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion, 4-step is> still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have seen> 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.> > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in*> *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*> *references are thrown in here and there. So can*> *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *> *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*> There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the methods are> already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have seen> shift towards using sub-lord (both

planetary and cuspal) more often. The> shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period of time> in KP.> > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*> *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*> *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*> *books from the Disciples ?*> This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or other> practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers. More> research and study is needed.> > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and*> *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*> *apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *> *can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without *> *disturbing its Structure completely ?*> Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP.

These> are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil> ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.> > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*> *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*> *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*> *that process confuse themselves ?*> As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP first. Other> members can have different opinion.> > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*> *asnwers are not available unless one applies the *> *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *> *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*> *KP does not seem to work ?*> Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.> > Most of the time it happens because we miss finer KP principles. The

number> of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that whichever> system we use, there is some selections need to be made by astrologer, and> there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen that no> two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...wrote:> > >> >> > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*> > **> > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the> > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of> > these.> >> > My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly> > and with convictions and fearlessly.> >> > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step

?> >> > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional> > KP Method ?> >> > 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in> > the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but> > references are thrown in here and there. So can> > we pick up those rules which can help us in KP> > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?> >> > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old> > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*> > *predictions, * as mentioned in the readers and the other> > books from the Disciples ?> >> > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and> > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,> > apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step> > can be picked up and

*applied to the Traditional* without> > disturbing its Structure completely ?> >> > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.> > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or> > should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in> > that process *confuse* themselves ?> >> > 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the> > asnwers are not available unless one applies the> > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such> > charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional> > KP does not seem to work ?> >> > As requested above, please answer the above> > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily> > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the> > student community.> >> > Please do not advise that they are "not

different systems"> > or just an "improvisation" , because both cannot be applied together.> >> > regards/Bhaskar.> >> >> > > >>

 

 

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dear shrikant,

mr.bhaskar says that 4 step principles are laid in late shahasane's book and you

have told the truth about his criticism on 4 step theory,but dear shrikant you

have seen only one side of the coin..the reply to this argument was given in my

magazie(vasantik 2008 issue) in editorial..if you are interested to know the

second side of the coin,pl refer this issue.

thanks

-sunil gondhalekar

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, j shrikant <shrikantjin wrote:

>

> dear subhashji,

>                       Late shri. suresh shahasane was a

brilliant kp astrologer.his contribution in training kp

> students was great.He conducted for 3 years kp astrology conferances for

which I was witness.

> I was a participant .He encouraged new students in prediction.his astrology

conferances were

> directly explanation of 60 horoscopes,in 3days.he advocated planet

signification a simple way

> to analyse horoscope.he was a critic of 4 step theory.In his book jyotishveda

in marathi ,he criticised

> this method illustrating examples in support of it.

>         he said if planet is in its own star and also sub how you are

going to write your four steps?

> According his practical experiences when planet is in its own star  and in

its own sub we will

> get same steps repetedly hence take the significance of subsub.

>  GOOD LUCK

>  shrikantjin

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi

>

> Cc: Subhash Ektare <subhash

> Mon, 21 December, 2009 3:05:03 PM

> Re: Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?

>

>  

> Dear Subhash,

>                       I completely agree with you...

>                       Yogesh Lajmi

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ >

> @gro ups.com

> Mon, 21 December, 2009 5:02:39 AM

> Re: Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?

>

>  

> Dear Members,

>

> As far as my knowledge goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principles only

adding and /or improvising some rules. Further the method of working out

signification of each planet is entirely different. To differentiate this aspect

from KP (and not get confused as KP) it was suitably titled as " 4 Step Theory " .

Therefore to understand 4 step, knowledge of KP as given in KSK's Readers is

necessary. 

>

> Secondly, in my personal opinion, I do not find 4 step theory confusing. There

are very few rules which can be understood even by a beginner. In fact I am very

comfortable with 4 step theory.

>

> Late Mr.. Suresh shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi and these

were translated in Hindi and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books must be widely

used by many KP astrologers. Then I fail to understand why the fact that " he

used apparent  presently Titled, 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without

making it confusing " may not be of common knowledge? But if this is a fact, then

credit must go to him. Frankly speaking since I have not read his books I cannot

comment on this. But there must be many members in this forum who have read his

books, can throw some light on this. 

>

> Regards,

> Subhash Ekatre

________________________________

> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>

> @gro ups.com

> Sun, December 20, 2009 6:26:09 AM

> Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?

>

>  

> Dear Punit ji,

>  

> Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight honest replies

> to the queries.

>  

> I would like to mention now that my personal opinion is that the 4 Step

> Theory may be too confusing at times with too many heavy weighted

> rules which may not all be understood properly by a student, in complete.

>  

> Another fact which may not be of common knowledge,

> is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which were

> written many years ago) has used the apparent  presently Titled,

> 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing. 

> This may have now later come to be known as 4 Step with further

> rules added to it , is another matter, but was actually KP in detail

> and improvised. 

>  

> I would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the usual

> methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules,

> rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally I

> am not comfortable with.

>  

> (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way connected with selling of

> above books, nor have any particular interest, except that these books

> are really one of the finest, most simple to understand, and contains

> all KP And improvised rules minus the confusions, so that one can

> understand KP very easily rather than spending 10 years to understand

> Readers or 4 Step).

>  

> warm regards,

> Bhaskar.

>  

>  

>   

>      

> @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Bhaskar ji,

> >

> > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do comparison.

> > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor of KP.

> > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them unbiased and

> > best of my capabilities. .

> >

> >

> > *1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*

> > Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and cons.

> > With the time and research we will have to highlight those points. Also

> > 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of awareness

> > before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.

> >

> > *2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional*

> > *KP Method ?*

> > As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems. Sunil ji

> > himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any significant

> > advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion, 4-step is

> > still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have seen

> > 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.

> >

> > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in*

> > *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*

> > *references are thrown in here and there. So can*

> > *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *

> > *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*

> > There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the methods are

> > already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have seen

> > shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often. The

> > shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period of time

> > in KP.

> >

> > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*

> > *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*

> > *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*

> > *books from the Disciples ?*

> > This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or other

> > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers. More

> > research and study is needed.

> >

> > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and*

> > *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*

> > *apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *

> > *can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without *

> > *disturbing its Structure completely ?*

> > Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP. These

> > are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil

> > ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.

> >

> > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*

> > *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*

> > *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*

> > *that process confuse themselves ?*

> > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP first. Other

> > members can have different opinion.

> >

> > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*

> > *asnwers are not available unless one applies the *

> > *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *

> > *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*

> > *KP does not seem to work ?*

> > Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.

> >

> > Most of the time it happens because we miss finer KP principles. The number

> > of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that whichever

> > system we use, there is some selections need to be made by astrologer, and

> > there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen that no

> > two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.

> >

> > Thanks & Regards,

> >

> > Punit Pandey

> >

> >

> > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...wrote:

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*

> > > **

> > > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the

> > > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of

> > > these.

> > >

> > > My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly

> > > and with convictions and fearlessly.

> > >

> > > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?

> > >

> > > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional

> > > KP Method ?

> > >

> > > 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in

> > > the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but

> > > references are thrown in here and there. So can

> > > we pick up those rules which can help us in KP

> > > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?

> > >

> > > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old

> > > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*

> > > *predictions, * as mentioned in the readers and the other

> > > books from the Disciples ?

> > >

> > > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and

> > > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,

> > > apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step

> > > can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without

> > > disturbing its Structure completely ?

> > >

> > > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.

> > > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or

> > > should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in

> > > that process *confuse* themselves ?

> > >

> > > 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the

> > > asnwers are not available unless one applies the

> > > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such

> > > charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional

> > > KP does not seem to work ?

> > >

> > > As requested above, please answer the above

> > > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily

> > > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the

> > > student community.

> > >

> > > Please do not advise that they are " not different systems "

> > > or just an " improvisation " , because both cannot be applied together.

> > >

> > > regards/Bhaskar.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

> ________________________________

> See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.

>

>

>

> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.

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>

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Dear Shri Subhash ji,

 

Thank You Sir for your kind reply.

 

//When you say that most of the rules (of 4 step) have already been used by Late Shri. Shahasane you must have presumably understood them. //

 

I have understood those rules whatever Shri Sahasneji has explained in his books. Whatever is taught as "4 Step" now and presently, I am unable to understand fully, and the application part.

 

//Therefore it is hard to believe that an astrologer of your caliber still find it confusing. Your allegation that these rules are already used by Mr. Shahasane ji seems to be baseless if you say you did not understand the rules at all. //

 

Thank You, but astrologer of calibre or not , theres no definition or scale of measures as such.

As explained above, the rules already used in Shri Sahasnejis books are understood due to the way its presented in a simple manner with proper illustrations.

 

//It was ruled by moderator Mr. Punit Pandey ji that KP is what is described in KP Readers. Any new theories though derived from KP....such as Late Dr. Kar's Theory, K. Baskaran's theory etc are named differently to identify themselves from KP. 4 step theory is also one such theory. Can it be termed as KP just because you are not comfortable with naming it this way? //

 

Shri Punit ji is right when he mentions that all new theories, improvisations and additions must be given a seperate name so as it is clearly understood by any new entrant to understand what is Original KP, and what is beyond KP. I have no issues here. But if its a new theory then please be genuine in saying that its Original and that no rules have been picked from any other source. If it is not new then please mention the source and also acknowledgment of the source, with due respect given to the source before we address ourself as the originator. Another matter is that before a theory is propounded, then please make it undersrandable to at least 70% of the members. In an earlier mail where reference was made by Shri Sunil ji, to Shri Sahasnejis books that he has not written everything but written articles from his Guru Hasbe jis magazines which Shri Sunil Gondhalekarji has admitted that Guruji has done the editing, then I do not understand wheres the problem if Guruji Hasbe has himself done the editing ? Why must we point fingers at anyone ? And why were you silent at that mail ? At least for Rs. 300/- the students have got a millions Rupees worth of knowledge from his books containing hundreds of examples and simple style of explaining the rules. The photo of his Guruji has been put on his books, due respect has been given, his Gurujis reference is made in almost every second Chapter. Do You see this in Shri Suniljis book which I purchased from him for Rs.500- containg 40 pages of large Fonts (Xerox Pages) written in a hurried manner, and absolute confused depictions of the rules ? No reference to his Guruji, no respect , no acknowledgement, just nothing.

( If the Pravchankaar depicting stories from the Ramayana to an audience,does not pay respect to the original VedVyas ji who is the Author of this epic, and acknowledge them, then how can he gain grace of His guru or the respect from the audience who is listening to his discourses ?) See I am not concerend with all this, nor am interested in Politics, nor care for who acknolwedges whom, but mentioning this just because fingers were pointed at Shri Sahasne ji . If I am not mistaken Shri Sunilji and Shri Shasneji have learnt KP from the same Guru Hasbeji. pointing one finger at others means pointing 3 at ourselves, is what made me write above.

 

// It is your decision not to comment on 4 step any more, however any constructive comments are always welcome. No system is complete in itself and there is always scope for improvement. Please do not deprive the group members to gain from your vast knowledge and experience. //

 

Sir late Shri Sahasne ji, and Shri Gondhlekarji and those from their generations including late Shri Raichurji, Yogeshji, etc. are Giants of their areas. We have much to learn from them. Theres no question of anybody gaining from us, when they are present around with us. And we have still much left to learn from whatever they have presented to this generation. Now I will always give my comments if they are constructive and you may please answer them whenever they come - astrological doubts about 4 Step. And I assure you they will be constructive and asking for further learning , and not for derision or unnecessary criticism.

 

I humbly submit again -

 

1) We wish to learn the 4 Step, if its really useful.

2) But the present formats available for learning 4 Step is not satisfactory.

3) The rules are not demercated sufficiently understandable enough.

4) If people like your goodself, Shri Tinwinji, Shri Gondhlekarji, Shri Yogeshji, Shri Punitji, etc. and whoever has understood the 4 Step properly are able to write exhaustive Chapters with illustrations at every Step, and also make it in a Book form or make it available on the Net for download, it will become very useful for those who have learnt KP and you will be doing a wonderful service to the present and coming generations without doubt.

5) Even if the Book form costs Rs.1000- I am willing to pay for it. (this is to confirm that we are serious in wanting to study the same, but feel helpless with the current formats of presentations).

6) Commercialisation is okay because one needs money to even have a morning cup of Tea, but write books which serve the purpose, for which the reader buys them, and not to confuse them, so that they come back asking for further information.

 

I am sorry and apologise if I have offended anyone connected to the 4 Step, and my full respects to Shri Gondhlekarji for presenting the 4 Step theory to us. He is a very knowledgable man, and I have nothing personal against him, so please ignore the wrong signals if any. I just wish that everyone must be given his due respect as regards to the 4 Step theory for wehatver has been their contributions.

 

Thanks and Regards,

bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar ji,> > When you say that most of the rules (of 4 step) have already been used by Late Shri. Shahasane you must have presumably understood them. Therefore it is hard to believe that an astrologer of your caliber still find it confusing. Your allegation that these rules are already used by Mr. Shahasane ji seems to be baseless if you say you did not understand the rules at all. > > It was ruled by moderator Mr. Punit Pandey ji that KP is what is described in KP Readers. Any new theories though derived from KP....such as Late Dr. Kar's Theory, K. Baskaran's theory etc are named differently to identify themselves from KP. 4 step theory is also one such theory. Can it be termed as KP just because you are not comfortable with naming it this way? It is your decision not to comment on 4 step any more, however any constructive comments are always welcome. No system is complete in itself and there is always scope for improvement. Please do not deprive the group members to gain from your vast knowledge and experience.> > Thanks and Regards,> > Subhash Ektare> > > > > > ________________________________> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish > Mon, December 21, 2009 2:56:43 AM> Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?> > > Dear Subhash ji,> // Then I fail to understand why the fact that"he used apparent presently Titled, 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing" may not be of common knowledge? //> What is today known as 4 Step, most of the rules have already been used by Shri Sahasne in his books written many years ago, is what may not be common knowledge, is what I am tring to say Sir. Removing something from KP, then adding another set of confusing rules to it and naming it "4 Step" is not what I am comfortable with. Shri Sahasne has made improvisations to KP in his books, mentioned the areas where he feels further research must be done, accepted his dissatisfactions in certain areas, but never claimed to be originator of any new theories. > If You have understood the 4 Step well, then you may be fortunate. Any improvisations if makes some sense and is not confusing to a student - Beginner or Advanced level student, is always welcome. I did not even understand properly your translation in the Files Section where a 58 KB File on Fout Step theory Rules are, put up. There are about 10 Ruless mentioned which themselves contain many others within them. Understanding the English in any article is another matter, understanding the rules is a seperate matter, and application of them is again another junction. When to apply which rules is again confusing. This is my personal opinion as I mentioned before.> About 4 Step I will refrain from commenting further.> kind regards,> Bhaskar.> > > > > @gro ups.com, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ ...> wrote:> >> > Dear Members,> > > > As far as my knowledge goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principles only adding and /or improvising some rules. Further the method of working out signification of each planet is entirely different. To differentiate this aspect from KP (and not get confused as KP) it was suitably titled as "4 Step Theory". Therefore to understand 4 step, knowledge of KP as given in KSK's Readers is necessary. > > > > Secondly, in my personal opinion, I do not find 4 step theory confusing. There are very few rules which can be understood even by a beginner. In fact I am very comfortable with 4 step theory.> > > > Late Mr. Suresh shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi and these were translated in Hindi and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books must be widely used by many KP astrologers. Then I fail to understand why the fact that"he used apparent presently Titled, 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing" may not be of common knowledge? But if this is a fact, then credit must go to him. Frankly speaking since I have not read his books I cannot comment on this. But there must be many members in this forum who have read his books, can throw some light on this. > > > > Regards,> > Subhash Ekatre> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> > @gro ups.com> > Sun, December 20, 2009 6:26:09 AM> > Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?> > > > > > Dear Punit ji,> > > > Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight honest replies> > to the queries.> > > > I would like to mention now that my personal opinion is that the 4 Step> > Theory may be too confusing at times with too many heavy weighted> > rules which may not all be understood properly by a student, in complete. > > > > Another fact which may not be of common knowledge,> > is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which were> > written many years ago) has used the apparent presently Titled,> > 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing. > > This may have now later come to be known as 4 Step with further > > rules added to it , is another matter, but was actually KP in detail> > and improvised. > > > > I would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the usual > > methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules, > > rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally I > > am not comfortable with.> > > > (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way connected with selling of> > above books, nor have any particular interest, except that these books> > are really one of the finest, most simple to understand, and contains> > all KP And improvised rules minus the confusions, so that one can> > understand KP very easily rather than spending 10 years to understand> > Readers or 4 Step).> > > > warm regards,> > Bhaskar.> > > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey punitp@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Bhaskar ji,> > > > > > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do comparison.> > > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor of KP.> > > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them unbiased and> > > best of my capabilities.> > > > > > > > > *1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*> > > Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and cons.> > > With the time and research we will have to highlight those points. Also> > > 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of awareness> > > before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.> > > > > > *2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional*> > > *KP Method ?*> > > As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems. Sunil ji> > > himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any significant> > > advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion, 4-step is> > > still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have seen> > > 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.> > > > > > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in*> > > *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*> > > *references are thrown in here and there. So can*> > > *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *> > > *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*> > > There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the methods are> > > already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have seen> > > shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often. The> > > shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period of time> > > in KP.> > > > > > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*> > > *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*> > > *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*> > > *books from the Disciples ?*> > > This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or other> > > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers. More> > > research and study is needed.> > > > > > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and*> > > *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*> > > *apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *> > > *can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without *> > > *disturbing its Structure completely ?*> > > Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP. These> > > are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil> > > ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.> > > > > > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*> > > *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*> > > *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*> > > *that process confuse themselves ?*> > > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP first. Other> > > members can have different opinion.> > > > > > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*> > > *asnwers are not available unless one applies the *> > > *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *> > > *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*> > > *KP does not seem to work ?*> > > Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.> > > > > > Most of the time it happens because we miss finer KP principles. The number> > > of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that whichever> > > system we use, there is some selections need to be made by astrologer, and> > > there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen that no> > > two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.> > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...wrote:> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*> > > > **> > > > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the> > > > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of> > > > these.> > > >> > > > My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly> > > > and with convictions and fearlessly.> > > >> > > > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?> > > >> > > > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional> > > > KP Method ?> > > >> > > > 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in> > > > the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but> > > > references are thrown in here and there. So can> > > > we pick up those rules which can help us in KP> > > > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?> > > >> > > > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old> > > > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*> > > > *predictions, * as mentioned in the readers and the other> > > > books from the Disciples ?> > > >> > > > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and> > > > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,> > > > apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step> > > > can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without> > > > disturbing its Structure completely ?> > > >> > > > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.> > > > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or> > > > should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in> > > > that process *confuse* themselves ?> > > >> > > > 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the> > > > asnwers are not available unless one applies the> > > > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such> > > > charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional> > > > KP does not seem to work ?> > > >> > > > As requested above, please answer the above> > > > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily> > > > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the> > > > student community.> > > >> > > > Please do not advise that they are "not different systems"> > > > or just an "improvisation" , because both cannot be applied together.> > > >> > > > regards/Bhaskar.> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>

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Dear Shrikant ji,

 

Right.

 

I had asked a similiar question to the members here 2 years ago, about

what must Rahu consider to signify (My own horoscope) if Rahu is in its

own sub. they did not have any answer for this. Then I explained them,

what Shri Sahasneji has taught me, and it fills in correctly after

having undergone 2 years of Rahu Mahadasha. (We have to move to the sub

sub Lord now in such cases, and in my case it was Budh, and since no

planet in star of Budh, Shri Sahasneji explained me personally that rahu

will now become a first class significator for Budh who is lord of 2nd

and 11th in My chart - Leo ascendant, and that rahu mahadasha will be

the best for you in terms of material )

 

I also asked them what would happen if two planets are conjunct in same

degrees and in same Sub. and if they are running Mahadashas one after

the other, then what will be the difference in their Mahadasha results,

since the Sub is the same for both mahadasha Lords. Again no answer was

forthcoming from the learned astrologers here. Then I cited a reference

from Shri Chandrakant bhatts book where it is clearly mentioned that if

Raashi Lord, StarLord, Sublord is same for the two planets, then the

planet which has a subsublord signifying the benefic houses will happen

to be a better mahadasha.

 

This brought some disaapointment to me when I could find no Learned

members here could reply to my two queries above and an ordinary student

and astrologer like me could give the answer due to the grace of his

Guru. I decided to spend less time on the Forum, and concentrate more on

what could be learnt further.

 

Sorry, if anyone finds any thing irrelevant here.

 

regards,

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

, j shrikant <shrikantjin wrote:

>

> dear subhashji,

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

       Late shri. suresh shahasane was a

brilliant kp astrologer.his contribution in training kp

> students was great.He conducted for 3 years kp astrology conferances

for which I was witness.

> IÂ was a participant .He encouraged new students in prediction.his

astrology conferances were

> directly explanation of 60 horoscopes,in 3days.he advocated planet

signification a simple way

> to analyse horoscope.he was a critic of 4 step theory.In his book

jyotishveda in marathi ,he criticised

> this method illustrating examples in support of it.

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â he said if planet is in its own

star and also sub how you are going to write your four steps?

> According his practical experiences when planet is in its own starÂ

and in its own sub we will

> get same steps repetedly hence take the significance of subsub.

> Â GOOD LUCK

> Â shrikantjin

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi

>

> Cc: Subhash Ektare subhash

> Mon, 21 December, 2009 3:05:03 PM

> Re: Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4

Step ?

>

> Â

> Dear Subhash,

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

        I completely agree with you...

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

       Yogesh Lajmi

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ >

> @gro ups.com

> Mon, 21 December, 2009 5:02:39 AM

> Re: Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4

Step ?

>

> Â

> Dear Members,

>

> As far as my knowledge goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principles

only adding and /or improvising some rules. Further the method of

working out signification of each planet is entirely different. To

differentiate this aspect from KP (and not get confused as KP) it was

suitably titled as " 4 Step Theory " . Therefore to understand 4 step,

knowledge of KP as given in KSK's Readers is necessary.Â

>

> Secondly, in my personal opinion, I do not find 4 step theory

confusing. There are very few rules which can be understood even by a

beginner. In fact I am very comfortable with 4 step theory.

>

> Late Mr.. Suresh shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi and

these were translated in Hindi and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books must

be widely used by many KP astrologers. Then I fail to understand why the

fact that " he used apparent presently Titled, 4 Step rules,

very effectively in KP without making it confusing " may not be of common

knowledge? But if this is a fact, then credit must go to him. Frankly

speaking since I have not read his books I cannot comment on this. But

there must be many members in this forum who have read his books, can

throw some light on this.Â

>

> Regards,

> Subhash Ekatre

________________________________

> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>

> @gro ups.com

> Sun, December 20, 2009 6:26:09 AM

> Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step

?

>

> Â

> Dear Punit ji,

> Â

> Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight honest replies

> to the queries.

> Â

> I would like to mention now that my personal opinion is that the 4

Step

> Theory may be too confusing at times with too many heavy weighted

> rules which may not all be understood properly by a student, in

complete.

> Â

> Another fact which may not be of common knowledge,

> is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which were

> written many years ago) has used the apparent presently Titled,

> 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing.Â

> This may have now later come to be known as 4 Step with further

> rules added to it , is another matter, but was actually KP in

detail

> and improvised.Â

> Â

> IÂ would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the

usual

> methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules,

> rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally

I

> am not comfortable with.

> Â

> (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way connected withÂ

selling of

> above books, nor have any particular interest, except that these books

> are really one of the finest, most simple to understand, and contains

> all KP And improvised rules minus the confusions, so that one can

> understand KP very easily rather than spending 10 years to understand

> Readers or 4 Step).

> Â

> warm regards,

> Bhaskar.

> Â

> Â

> Â Â

> Â Â Â Â Â

> @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey punitp@ wrote:

> >

> > Dear Bhaskar ji,

> >

> > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do

comparison.

> > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor

of KP.

> > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them

unbiased and

> > best of my capabilities. .

> >

> >

> > *1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*

> > Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and

cons.

> > With the time and research we will have to highlight those points.

Also

> > 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of

awareness

> > before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.

> >

> > *2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional*

> > *KP Method ?*

> > As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems.

Sunil ji

> > himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any significant

> > advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion,

4-step is

> > still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I

have seen

> > 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.

> >

> > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in*

> > *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*

> > *references are thrown in here and there. So can*

> > *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *

> > *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*

> > There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the

methods are

> > already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we

have seen

> > shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often.

The

> > shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period

of time

> > in KP.

> >

> > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*

> > *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*

> > *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*

> > *books from the Disciples ?*

> > This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or

other

> > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers.

More

> > research and study is needed.

> >

> > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and*

> > *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*

> > *apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *

> > *can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without *

> > *disturbing its Structure completely ?*

> > Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP.

These

> > are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil

> > ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.

> >

> > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*

> > *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*

> > *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*

> > *that process confuse themselves ?*

> > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP

first. Other

> > members can have different opinion.

> >

> > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*

> > *asnwers are not available unless one applies the *

> > *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *

> > *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*

> > *KP does not seem to work ?*

> > Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.

> >

> > Most of the time it happens because we miss finer KP principles. The

number

> > of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that

whichever

> > system we use, there is some selections need to be made by

astrologer, and

> > there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen

that no

> > two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.

> >

> > Thanks & Regards,

> >

> > Punit Pandey

> >

> >

> > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...wrote:

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*

> > > **

> > > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the

> > > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of

> > > these.

> > >

> > > My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly

> > > and with convictions and fearlessly.

> > >

> > > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?

> > >

> > > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional

> > > KP Method ?

> > >

> > > 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in

> > > the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but

> > > references are thrown in here and there. So can

> > > we pick up those rules which can help us in KP

> > > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?

> > >

> > > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old

> > > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*

> > > *predictions, * as mentioned in the readers and the other

> > > books from the Disciples ?

> > >

> > > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and

> > > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,

> > > apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step

> > > can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without

> > > disturbing its Structure completely ?

> > >

> > > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.

> > > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or

> > > should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in

> > > that process *confuse* themselves ?

> > >

> > > 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the

> > > asnwers are not available unless one applies the

> > > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such

> > > charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional

> > > KP does not seem to work ?

> > >

> > > As requested above, please answer the above

> > > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily

> > > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the

> > > student community.

> > >

> > > Please do not advise that they are " not different systems "

> > > or just an " improvisation " , because both cannot be applied

together.

> > >

> > > regards/Bhaskar.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

> ________________________________

> See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.

>

>

>

> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.

http://in./

>

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Dear Sri Bhaskar & Sri Pandey Ji,

 

I have gone thru both the emails. In this connection I wish to inform you that

Sri KSK ji out of his experience from Vedic he came out with his concept which

we are calling it as Traditional KP. Guruji during his life time (for human

being longevity is limitation one is not eternal) he invented the sublord

application from vimsothari concept it is also an extension of Vedic and not a

new subject. Becaz of his age limitation he could not do further (at that time

this group activity, computers, net is in the initial stages) research on this

new kp concept (sublord) at that time (1970).

 

During 1980 I entered from Vedic to Kp and continued the same becaz of its

scientific way of analysis. At that time I used to see the sublord signification

also to give a positive reply to the client when starlord does not in any way

connected to the relevant houses, as sublord is trump card in this system. I

used to see the significance of the sublord, also see the cuspal sublord, or

starlord of relevant cusp, if any of the three conditions are satisfied then I

used counsel the client that he/she could get the desired result. (Becaz it is

our Vaksiddhi we do regular prayers and then predict for the client) Normally

we should not try to predict negative things to the client unless it is

unwarranted. In case of longevity we should be more careful becaz Astrologers

noramlly have good mercury and 5n9 houses for astrology practice, then our Vakk

sidhi should not be used for predicting negative things to the detriment of

Jatakudu. Jatakudu approaches u for mental support thru your knowledge.

 

I used to predict thru sublord signification also which used to come true and

many of my clients would come back with good feed back. Then during that time I

do not know I am using the 3rd/4th step i.e. sublord and its starlord theory in

my predictions.

 

Later on the same has come in a form of theory by Sri Sunil ji, more useful in

predictive astrology for the beginners to gain quick recognition in this field.

Now any discussion on this topic whether this method or that method, is draining

our rich and valuable hours which we can safely use in testing the theories with

practical charts which would create the confidence in us.

 

During 1970s KSK ji has given the first generation 286 Pcs to us now we have

developed it to 5th generation Dual Core systems. That means the old system is

thresh hold for this superstructure. We should concetrate on significators of

ABCDE level (as said by Sri Dhanbalan) and should also see the 4 step theory,

cuspal interlinks, cusps starlords, cuspal interception, to give more accurate

predictions.

 

I could see this group has now launched into quizs and research activities

instead of spending our valuable time on discussion of old theories which is

accurate / in accurate.

 

I request all the stalwarts of KP Astrology should launch on new areas where it

requires further research to reach at finer predictions.

 

O.V.N.Murthy, M.Com. FCS.I CWAI. PGDPA.

Company Secretary,

Nizam Sugars Limited,

Hyderabad-500004A.P.

Ph.No. Off.23232212 / Res 040 27405975; Mob.9441778427

www.saibhavishyavani.com

ovnmurthy

 

 

 

 

 

, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

>

> Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group, I was going through the

> Tutorials, and stumbled upon the 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was

> not unaware of these. My Queries to you which hope would be answered

> honestly and with convictions and fearlessly. 1) Which system is

> better. The KP or the 4 Step ? 2) In case the latter, than should we

> discard the Traditional KP Method ? 3) Certain rules considered as 4

> Step, are already there in the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed

> manner, but references are thrown in here and there. So can we pick up

> those rules which can help us in KP traditional, or totally shift to

> the 4 Step ? 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the

> old ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful predictions,

> as mentioned in the readers and the other books from the Disciples ?

> 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and improvisations, we

> as students are ready to change, apply and amalgamate . Which rules from

> the 4 Step can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without

> disturbing its Structure completely ? 6) What do you advise the new

> comers who enter KP. should they straight away move towards the 4 step

> or should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in that process

> confuse themselves ? 7) I am given to understand that for certain

> Charts the asnwers are not available unless one applies the 4 Step. In

> that case what is the percentage of such charts you would give, out of

> 100, where the Traditional KP does not seem to work ? As requested

> above, please answer the above honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to

> necessarily look good, but be truthful to ourselves and the student

> community. Please do not advise that they are " not different systems "

> or just an " improvisation " , because both cannot be applied together.

> regards/Bhaskar.

>

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bhaskarji and allLot of depends upon the mood of astrologer and the time of event of seeing the question.Shahasane or Gondhalekar or even KSK....and all...We must look at a constructive study combining all theories..NOT a single one and come to logic of answering public querries.4step gives more permutation and combinations so results sucess ratio may flicker more ( i feel so) DBA period makes ALL....success (Dabba or dhabba) (pl take hindi meaning) rest one must not argue on teaching learned astrologer the method.just keep cool and read on...learn on....even if predictions fail.....fails many times...rajiv bokaariyaBhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Sent: Tue, 22 December, 2009 1:17:18 PMSubject:

Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?

 

 

 

Dear Shrikant ji,

 

Right.

 

I had asked a similiar question to the members here 2 years ago, about

what must Rahu consider to signify (My own horoscope) if Rahu is in its

own sub. they did not have any answer for this. Then I explained them,

what Shri Sahasneji has taught me, and it fills in correctly after

having undergone 2 years of Rahu Mahadasha. (We have to move to the sub

sub Lord now in such cases, and in my case it was Budh, and since no

planet in star of Budh, Shri Sahasneji explained me personally that rahu

will now become a first class significator for Budh who is lord of 2nd

and 11th in My chart - Leo ascendant, and that rahu mahadasha will be

the best for you in terms of material )

 

I also asked them what would happen if two planets are conjunct in same

degrees and in same Sub. and if they are running Mahadashas one after

the other, then what will be the difference in their Mahadasha results,

since the Sub is the same for both mahadasha Lords. Again no answer was

forthcoming from the learned astrologers here. Then I cited a reference

from Shri Chandrakant bhatts book where it is clearly mentioned that if

Raashi Lord, StarLord, Sublord is same for the two planets, then the

planet which has a subsublord signifying the benefic houses will happen

to be a better mahadasha.

 

This brought some disaapointment to me when I could find no Learned

members here could reply to my two queries above and an ordinary student

and astrologer like me could give the answer due to the grace of his

Guru. I decided to spend less time on the Forum, and concentrate more on

what could be learnt further.

 

Sorry, if anyone finds any thing irrelevant here.

 

regards,

 

Bhaskar.

 

@gro ups.com, j shrikant <shrikantjin@ ...> wrote:

>

> dear subhashji,

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

       Late shri. suresh shahasane was a

brilliant kp astrologer.his contribution in training kp

> students was great.He conducted for 3 years kp astrology conferances

for which I was witness.

> IÂ was a participant .He encouraged new students in prediction.his

astrology conferances were

> directly explanation of 60 horoscopes,in 3days.he advocated planet

signification a simple way

> to analyse horoscope.he was a critic of 4 step theory.In his book

jyotishveda in marathi ,he criticised

> this method illustrating examples in support of it.

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â he said if planet is in its own

star and also sub how you are going to write your four steps?

> According his practical experiences when planet is in its own starÂ

and in its own sub we will

> get same steps repetedly hence take the significance of subsub.

> Â GOOD LUCK

> Â shrikantjin@ ...

>

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ ...

> @gro ups.com

> Cc: Subhash Ektare subhash

> Mon, 21 December, 2009 3:05:03 PM

> Re: Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4

Step ?

>

> Â

> Dear Subhash,

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

        I completely agree with you...

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

       Yogesh Lajmi

>

>

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ >

> @gro ups.com

> Mon, 21 December, 2009 5:02:39 AM

> Re: Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4

Step ?

>

> Â

> Dear Members,

>

> As far as my knowledge goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principles

only adding and /or improvising some rules. Further the method of

working out signification of each planet is entirely different. To

differentiate this aspect from KP (and not get confused as KP) it was

suitably titled as "4 Step Theory". Therefore to understand 4 step,

knowledge of KP as given in KSK's Readers is necessary.Â

>

> Secondly, in my personal opinion, I do not find 4 step theory

confusing. There are very few rules which can be understood even by a

beginner. In fact I am very comfortable with 4 step theory.

>

> Late Mr.. Suresh shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi and

these were translated in Hindi and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books must

be widely used by many KP astrologers. Then I fail to understand why the

fact that"he used apparent presently Titled, 4 Step rules,

very effectively in KP without making it confusing" may not be of common

knowledge? But if this is a fact, then credit must go to him. Frankly

speaking since I have not read his books I cannot comment on this. But

there must be many members in this forum who have read his books, can

throw some light on this.Â

>

> Regards,

> Subhash Ekatre

____________ _________ _________ __

> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>

> @gro ups.com

> Sun, December 20, 2009 6:26:09 AM

> Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step

?

>

> Â

> Dear Punit ji,

> Â

> Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight honest replies

> to the queries.

> Â

> I would like to mention now that my personal opinion is that the 4

Step

> Theory may be too confusing at times with too many heavy weighted

> rules which may not all be understood properly by a student, in

complete.

> Â

> Another fact which may not be of common knowledge,

> is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which were

> written many years ago) has used the apparent presently Titled,

> 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing.Â

> This may have now later come to be known as 4 Step with further

> rules added to it , is another matter, but was actually KP in

detail

> and improvised.Â

> Â

> IÂ would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the

usual

> methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules,

> rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally

I

> am not comfortable with.

> Â

> (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way connected withÂ

selling of

> above books, nor have any particular interest, except that these books

> are really one of the finest, most simple to understand, and contains

> all KP And improvised rules minus the confusions, so that one can

> understand KP very easily rather than spending 10 years to understand

> Readers or 4 Step).

> Â

> warm regards,

> Bhaskar.

> Â

> Â

> Â Â

> Â Â Â Â Â

> @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey punitp@ wrote:

> >

> > Dear Bhaskar ji,

> >

> > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do

comparison.

> > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor

of KP.

> > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them

unbiased and

> > best of my capabilities. .

> >

> >

> > *1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*

> > Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and

cons.

> > With the time and research we will have to highlight those points.

Also

> > 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of

awareness

> > before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.

> >

> > *2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional*

> > *KP Method ?*

> > As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems.

Sunil ji

> > himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any significant

> > advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion,

4-step is

> > still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I

have seen

> > 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.

> >

> > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in*

> > *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*

> > *references are thrown in here and there. So can*

> > *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *

> > *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*

> > There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the

methods are

> > already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we

have seen

> > shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often.

The

> > shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period

of time

> > in KP.

> >

> > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*

> > *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*

> > *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*

> > *books from the Disciples ?*

> > This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or

other

> > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers.

More

> > research and study is needed.

> >

> > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and*

> > *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*

> > *apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *

> > *can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without *

> > *disturbing its Structure completely ?*

> > Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP.

These

> > are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil

> > ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.

> >

> > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*

> > *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*

> > *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*

> > *that process confuse themselves ?*

> > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP

first. Other

> > members can have different opinion.

> >

> > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*

> > *asnwers are not available unless one applies the *

> > *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *

> > *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*

> > *KP does not seem to work ?*

> > Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.

> >

> > Most of the time it happens because we miss finer KP principles. The

number

> > of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that

whichever

> > system we use, there is some selections need to be made by

astrologer, and

> > there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen

that no

> > two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.

> >

> > Thanks & Regards,

> >

> > Punit Pandey

> >

> >

> > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...wrote:

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*

> > > **

> > > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the

> > > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of

> > > these.

> > >

> > > My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly

> > > and with convictions and fearlessly.

> > >

> > > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?

> > >

> > > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional

> > > KP Method ?

> > >

> > > 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in

> > > the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but

> > > references are thrown in here and there. So can

> > > we pick up those rules which can help us in KP

> > > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?

> > >

> > > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old

> > > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*

> > > *predictions, * as mentioned in the readers and the other

> > > books from the Disciples ?

> > >

> > > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and

> > > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,

> > > apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step

> > > can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without

> > > disturbing its Structure completely ?

> > >

> > > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.

> > > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or

> > > should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in

> > > that process *confuse* themselves ?

> > >

> > > 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the

> > > asnwers are not available unless one applies the

> > > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such

> > > charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional

> > > KP does not seem to work ?

> > >

> > > As requested above, please answer the above

> > > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily

> > > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the

> > > student community.

> > >

> > > Please do not advise that they are "not different systems"

> > > or just an "improvisation" , because both cannot be applied

together.

> > >

> > > regards/Bhaskar.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.

>

>

>

> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.

http://in.. com/

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted

dear shri bhaskar,

our guru's name is Jyotindra Hasbe.the photo of hasbe is in shahasane's book..so

pl.spell his name rightly.late hasbe was a direct student of KSK and KSK has

given him permission to translate to religion language..this information will be

found in old A & A magazine.

 

4 step theory was inspired from articles " sublord speaks " by K.M.Subramanium.My

guru hasbe has asked me to study these articles as he was knowing that KSK was

using planet's sub's star in some cases..so as you said i also say that credit

of 4 step theory goes to my guru,hasbe.

 

you can contact me for your difficulties of 4 step theory by personally or over

phone..i will be happy to answer you.

 

thanks

-sunil gondhalekar

 

, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

>

> Sir,

>

> I have nothing against Your goodself or the theory itself, nor any contentions

about who is the originator. My main purpose is that the students must be told

what is better for them to be studied primarily, and then later on secondarily.

Which is why this query was put up, so that matters are cleared once again.

>

> I have also purchased your book of 40 Pages on 4 step theory costing Rs.500- 2

years ago, from which i was not able to understand anything. Please consider

this my inability and not take it otherwise please.

>

> Whether articles written by Sahasne ji were edited from late Kasbe gurujis

magazine or not, I am not sure, and neither am intersted in knowing so. I do not

think that anybody of his stature would straightaway lift it and then write it

in his name. I do not believe this. If he has done so, then he must have taken

the permissions to do so. But if he had done so, he would have mentioned it,

which he has not. So no point in talking who wrote what and from where

especially about persons who are no more alive to defend themselves.

>

> The 4 Step theory if You are the originator, then its fine. I wish to study

it, but am not able to understand how. Can You guide us how to study it in the

simplest form, as you say its the simplest theory based on KP ? Another point,

some steps of 4 step theory are already been written by Shri Sahasne much before

your goodself introduced this as 4 Step. In that case the credit must go to Shri

Kasbe ji as the originator, since you say that sahasneji has written all from

Shri Kasbejis articles ? Right ?

>

> Anyway we are not here to argue or discuss on such minor matters. If 4 step

theory is good, then please present it in a simple form for the students benefit

please, or write another book taking pains to fill it with content which

simplifies the whole theory, so that the readers and students can take advantage

of the same, is my only request you to.

>

> Kind regards,

> Bhaskar.

, " sunilalaka " <sunilalaka@> wrote:

> >

> > dear bhaskar,

> > thanks for your personal views about 4 step theory.

> > i dont understand then why you put up such a query

> > about 4 step theory?

> >

> > punitji rightly said that it is based on kp method

> > and himself agrres that this is a kp forum and thats why

> > bias opinion is placed,anyway.

> >

> > dear bhaskar,4 step theory is totally developed by me

> > and it has nothing to do with shahasane's books.actually

> > the books are only edited and not fully written by shahasane.

> > all the articles were from " nakshtra sanchit darpan " magazine

> > edited by late hasbe guruji...this is for your information.

> >

> > in my opinion,4 step theory is the simplest theory based on

> > kpmethod.many logers switched over to this theory in maharashtra.

> >

> > thanks

> >

> > -sunil gondhalekar

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Punit ji, Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight

> > > honest replies to the queries. I would like to mention now that my

> > > personal opinion is that the 4 Step Theory may be too confusing at times

> > > with too many heavy weighted rules which may not all be understood

> > > properly by a student, in complete. Another fact which may not be of

> > > common knowledge, is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which

> > > were written many years ago) has used the apparent presently Titled, 4

> > > Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing. This

> > > may have now later come to be known as 4 Step with further rules added

> > > to it , is another matter, but was actually KP in detail and improvised.

> > > I would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the usual

> > > methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules,

> > > rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally I

> > > am not comfortable with. (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way

> > > connected with selling of above books, nor have any particular interest,

> > > except that these books are really one of the finest, most simple to

> > > understand, and contains all KP And improvised rules minus the

> > > confusions, so that one can understand KP very easily rather than

> > > spending 10 years to understand Readers or 4 Step). warm regards,

> > > Bhaskar.

> > > , Punit Pandey <punitp@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Bhaskar ji,

> > > >

> > > > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do

> > > comparison.

> > > > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor of

> > > KP.

> > > > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them unbiased

> > > and

> > > > best of my capabilities.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > *1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*

> > > > Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and

> > > cons.

> > > > With the time and research we will have to highlight those points.

> > > Also

> > > > 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of awareness

> > > > before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.

> > > >

> > > > *2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional*

> > > > *KP Method ?*

> > > > As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems.

> > > Sunil ji

> > > > himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any significant

> > > > advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion,

> > > 4-step is

> > > > still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have

> > > seen

> > > > 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.

> > > >

> > > > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in*

> > > > *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*

> > > > *references are thrown in here and there. So can*

> > > > *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *

> > > > *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*

> > > > There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the

> > > methods are

> > > > already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have

> > > seen

> > > > shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often.

> > > The

> > > > shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period of

> > > time

> > > > in KP.

> > > >

> > > > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*

> > > > *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*

> > > > *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*

> > > > *books from the Disciples ?*

> > > > This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or

> > > other

> > > > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers. More

> > > > research and study is needed.

> > > >

> > > > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and*

> > > > *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*

> > > > *apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *

> > > > *can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without *

> > > > *disturbing its Structure completely ?*

> > > > Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP.

> > > These

> > > > are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil

> > > > ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.

> > > >

> > > > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*

> > > > *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*

> > > > *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*

> > > > *that process confuse themselves ?*

> > > > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP first.

> > > Other

> > > > members can have different opinion.

> > > >

> > > > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*

> > > > *asnwers are not available unless one applies the *

> > > > *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *

> > > > *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*

> > > > *KP does not seem to work ?*

> > > > Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.

> > > >

> > > > Most of the time it happens because we miss finer KP principles. The

> > > number

> > > > of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that

> > > whichever

> > > > system we use, there is some selections need to be made by astrologer,

> > > and

> > > > there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen

> > > that no

> > > > two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks & Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Punit Pandey

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@:

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*

> > > > > **

> > > > > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the

> > > > > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of

> > > > > these.

> > > > >

> > > > > My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly

> > > > > and with convictions and fearlessly.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?

> > > > >

> > > > > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional

> > > > > KP Method ?

> > > > >

> > > > > 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in

> > > > > the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but

> > > > > references are thrown in here and there. So can

> > > > > we pick up those rules which can help us in KP

> > > > > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?

> > > > >

> > > > > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old

> > > > > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*

> > > > > *predictions,* as mentioned in the readers and the other

> > > > > books from the Disciples ?

> > > > >

> > > > > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and

> > > > > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,

> > > > > apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step

> > > > > can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without

> > > > > disturbing its Structure completely ?

> > > > >

> > > > > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.

> > > > > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or

> > > > > should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in

> > > > > that process *confuse* themselves ?

> > > > >

> > > > > 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the

> > > > > asnwers are not available unless one applies the

> > > > > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such

> > > > > charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional

> > > > > KP does not seem to work ?

> > > > >

> > > > > As requested above, please answer the above

> > > > > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily

> > > > > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the

> > > > > student community.

> > > > >

> > > > > Please do not advise that they are " not different systems "

> > > > > or just an " improvisation " , because both cannot be applied together.

> > > > >

> > > > > regards/Bhaskar.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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Posted

Dear Sirs,

//Becaz of his age limitation he could not do further (at that timethis group activity, computers, net is in the initial stages) research on thisnew kp concept (sublord) at that time (1970). //

 

SubLord was already taken by Shri KSK , but yes further research

could be limited due to age factors or time limitations as you rightly

pointed out.//I used to predict thru sublord signification also which used to come true andmany of my clients would come back with good feed back. Then during that time Ido not know I am using the 3rd/4th step i.e. sublord and its starlord theory inmy predictions. Later on the same has come in a form of theory by Sri Sunil ji,

more useful in predictive astrology for the beginners to gain quick recognition in

this field. //

So You too acept through above renderations that you were already using

a part of todays "4 Step Theory" in those years too. much before it came

to be known today as "4 Step".

 

This is what I am trying to say all the time. If this was used by You,

if this was used by Shri Sahasne ji, and maybe by many others

then who should be called as the "Originator" of this system ?

 

// During 1970s KSK ji has given the first generation 286 Pcs so us now we havedeveloped it to 5th generation Dual Core systems. That means the old system isthresh hold for this superstructure. We should concetrate on significators ofABCDE level (as said by Sri Dhanbalan) and should also see the 4 step theory,cuspal interlinks, cusps starlords, cuspal interception, to give more accuratepredictions.//

 

Certain weightages have already been given to us by KSK too, unless

somebody writes that the books written by Shri KSk were not actually

written by him.

 

Predictive Stellar Astrology (3rd Reader) page 290

Details are given when the occupant is stronger than the owner of the

sign.

Details are given when the Occupant is weaker than the owner of the

sign.

(This is with reference to Exaltations, Debilitations, Vargottamsa etc.)

But if one searches his books, I am sure one will also find the references

for weightage on other factors which we are presently into. (I am in

jaipur presently and my books are lying in Bombay, or would have given

the references).

 

// I could see this group has now launched into quizs and research activitiesinstead of spending our valuable time on discussion of old theories which isaccurate / in accurate.//

 

I agree that the group may nevertheless continue with Quizzes etc.

whatever keeps the members in good frame, but additionally side

by side we must have discussions on those facets og Original KP,

where KSK had given us some hints, clues , subtle mentions, but

could not give us detailed descriptions due to whatever reasons they

may be as discussed above earlier in this mail. // I request all the stalwarts of KP Astrology should launch on new

areas where it requires further research to reach at finer predictions. //

 

I request the 4 Step propogators further, that if they think they have

understood and made some Theory which is by far a much better one in

terms of predictive outputs than KP, then please display this in terms of

predictive Outputs for the Stock Market Index, and if they can attain 75%

of win in their predictions for each day of the Market, then they can

certainly feel strengthened and in a better position to call this as

having some worth. I just ask them to please predict only whether

the Index will attain a "High" or "Low" for the next day of Market in advance,

and do not even ask them to give any figures or %age of High or Low.

This means for 22 days in a month, 22 Predictions of whether the

market will go High or Low on each day, and ,let 15 such predictions

come right, with logical inferences given with each prediction so

that we know that , no one is using Dowsing or Spirits or Tarot cards

or any other non-astrological forms of predictions for these.

 

This will also confirm to us and all, of the effectiveness of the 4 Step, and we

will begin anew with a renewed vigour and interest to learn this great theory'

and equip ourselves much better.

 

regards/Bhaskar.

 

 

, "PEDDA" <ovnmurthy wrote:>> Dear Sri Bhaskar & Sri Pandey Ji,> > I have gone thru both the emails. In this connection I wish to inform you that Sri KSK ji out of his experience from Vedic he came out with his concept which we are calling it as Traditional KP. Guruji during his life time (for human being longevity is limitation one is not eternal) he invented the sublord application from vimsothari concept it is also an extension of Vedic and not a new subject. Becaz of his age limitation he could not do further (at that time this group activity, computers, net is in the initial stages) research on this new kp concept (sublord) at that time (1970). > > During 1980 I entered from Vedic to Kp and continued the same becaz of its scientific way of analysis. At that time I used to see the sublord signification also to give a positive reply to the client when starlord does not in any way connected to the relevant houses, as sublord is trump card in this system. I used to see the significance of the sublord, also see the cuspal sublord, or starlord of relevant cusp, if any of the three conditions are satisfied then I used counsel the client that he/she could get the desired result. (Becaz it is our Vaksiddhi we do regular prayers and then predict for the client) Normally we should not try to predict negative things to the client unless it is unwarranted. In case of longevity we should be more careful becaz Astrologers noramlly have good mercury and 5n9 houses for astrology practice, then our Vakk sidhi should not be used for predicting negative things to the detriment of Jatakudu. Jatakudu approaches u for mental support thru your knowledge.> > I used to predict thru sublord signification also which used to come true and many of my clients would come back with good feed back. Then during that time I do not know I am using the 3rd/4th step i.e. sublord and its starlord theory in my predictions.> > Later on the same has come in a form of theory by Sri Sunil ji, more useful in predictive astrology for the beginners to gain quick recognition in this field. Now any discussion on this topic whether this method or that method, is draining our rich and valuable hours which we can safely use in testing the theories with practical charts which would create the confidence in us.> > During 1970s KSK ji has given the first generation 286 Pcs to us now we have developed it to 5th generation Dual Core systems. That means the old system is thresh hold for this superstructure. We should concetrate on significators of ABCDE level (as said by Sri Dhanbalan) and should also see the 4 step theory, cuspal interlinks, cusps starlords, cuspal interception, to give more accurate predictions.> > I could see this group has now launched into quizs and research activities instead of spending our valuable time on discussion of old theories which is accurate / in accurate.> > I request all the stalwarts of KP Astrology should launch on new areas where it requires further research to reach at finer predictions.> > O.V.N.Murthy, M.Com. FCS.I CWAI. PGDPA.> Company Secretary,> Nizam Sugars Limited,> Hyderabad-500004A.P.> Ph.No. Off.23232212 / Res 040 27405975; Mob.9441778427> www.saibhavishyavani.com > ovnmurthy > > > > > > , "Bhaskar" bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> >> > Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group, I was going through the> > Tutorials, and stumbled upon the 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was> > not unaware of these. My Queries to you which hope would be answered> > honestly and with convictions and fearlessly. 1) Which system is> > better. The KP or the 4 Step ? 2) In case the latter, than should we> > discard the Traditional KP Method ? 3) Certain rules considered as 4> > Step, are already there in the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed> > manner, but references are thrown in here and there. So can we pick up> > those rules which can help us in KP traditional, or totally shift to> > the 4 Step ? 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the> > old ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful predictions,> > as mentioned in the readers and the other books from the Disciples ? > > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and improvisations, we> > as students are ready to change, apply and amalgamate . Which rules from> > the 4 Step can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without > > disturbing its Structure completely ? 6) What do you advise the new> > comers who enter KP. should they straight away move towards the 4 step> > or should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in that process> > confuse themselves ? 7) I am given to understand that for certain> > Charts the asnwers are not available unless one applies the 4 Step. In> > that case what is the percentage of such charts you would give, out of> > 100, where the Traditional KP does not seem to work ? As requested> > above, please answer the above honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to> > necessarily look good, but be truthful to ourselves and the student> > community. Please do not advise that they are "not different systems"> > or just an "improvisation", because both cannot be applied together. > > regards/Bhaskar.> >>

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Dear Mr. Bhaskar,

 

If i sum up your mail i understand that,You need more clarity on 4 step rules. If this is right i would suggest that you write your specific requirements / doubts to Sunilji / Subhashji . My experience is that they reply 100%.

 

Regards

Amit Soman

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Sent: Tue, December 22, 2009 2:33:14 AM Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?

 

 

Dear Shri Subhash ji,

 

Thank You Sir for your kind reply.

 

//When you say that most of the rules (of 4 step) have already been used by Late Shri. Shahasane you must have presumably understood them. //

 

I have understood those rules whatever Shri Sahasneji has explained in his books. Whatever is taught as "4 Step" now and presently, I am unable to understand fully, and the application part.

 

//Therefore it is hard to believe that an astrologer of your caliber still find it confusing. Your allegation that these rules are already used by Mr. Shahasane ji seems to be baseless if you say you did not understand the rules at all. //

 

Thank You, but astrologer of calibre or not , theres no definition or scale of measures as such.

As explained above, the rules already used in Shri Sahasnejis books are understood due to the way its presented in a simple manner with proper illustrations.

 

//It was ruled by moderator Mr. Punit Pandey ji that KP is what is described in KP Readers. Any new theories though derived from KP....such as Late Dr. Kar's Theory, K. Baskaran's theory etc are named differently to identify themselves from KP. 4 step theory is also one such theory. Can it be termed as KP just because you are not comfortable with naming it this way? //

 

Shri Punit ji is right when he mentions that all new theories, improvisations and additions must be given a seperate name so as it is clearly understood by any new entrant to understand what is Original KP, and what is beyond KP. I have no issues here. But if its a new theory then please be genuine in saying that its Original and that no rules have been picked from any other source. If it is not new then please mention the source and also acknowledgment of the source, with due respect given to the source before we address ourself as the originator. Another matter is that before a theory is propounded, then please make it undersrandable to at least 70% of the members. In an earlier mail where reference was made by Shri Sunil ji, to Shri Sahasnejis books that he has not written everything but written articles from his Guru Hasbe jis magazines which Shri Sunil Gondhalekarji has admitted that Guruji has done the

editing, then I do not understand wheres the problem if Guruji Hasbe has himself done the editing ? Why must we point fingers at anyone ? And why were you silent at that mail ? At least for Rs. 300/- the students have got a millions Rupees worth of knowledge from his books containing hundreds of examples and simple style of explaining the rules. The photo of his Guruji has been put on his books, due respect has been given, his Gurujis reference is made in almost every second Chapter. Do You see this in Shri Suniljis book which I purchased from him for Rs.500- containg 40 pages of large Fonts (Xerox Pages) written in a hurried manner, and absolute confused depictions of the rules ? No reference to his Guruji, no respect , no acknowledgement, just nothing.

( If the Pravchankaar depicting stories from the Ramayana to an audience,does not pay respect to the original VedVyas ji who is the Author of this epic, and acknowledge them, then how can he gain grace of His guru or the respect from the audience who is listening to his discourses ?) See I am not concerend with all this, nor am interested in Politics, nor care for who acknolwedges whom, but mentioning this just because fingers were pointed at Shri Sahasne ji . If I am not mistaken Shri Sunilji and Shri Shasneji have learnt KP from the same Guru Hasbeji. pointing one finger at others means pointing 3 at ourselves, is what made me write above.

 

// It is your decision not to comment on 4 step any more, however any constructive comments are always welcome. No system is complete in itself and there is always scope for improvement. Please do not deprive the group members to gain from your vast knowledge and experience. //

 

Sir late Shri Sahasne ji, and Shri Gondhlekarji and those from their generations including late Shri Raichurji, Yogeshji, etc. are Giants of their areas. We have much to learn from them. Theres no question of anybody gaining from us, when they are present around with us. And we have still much left to learn from whatever they have presented to this generation. Now I will always give my comments if they are constructive and you may please answer them whenever they come - astrological doubts about 4 Step. And I assure you they will be constructive and asking for further learning , and not for derision or unnecessary criticism.

 

I humbly submit again -

 

1) We wish to learn the 4 Step, if its really useful.

2) But the present formats available for learning 4 Step is not satisfactory.

3) The rules are not demercated sufficiently understandable enough.

4) If people like your goodself, Shri Tinwinji, Shri Gondhlekarji, Shri Yogeshji, Shri Punitji, etc. and whoever has understood the 4 Step properly are able to write exhaustive Chapters with illustrations at every Step, and also make it in a Book form or make it available on the Net for download, it will become very useful for those who have learnt KP and you will be doing a wonderful service to the present and coming generations without doubt.

5) Even if the Book form costs Rs.1000- I am willing to pay for it. (this is to confirm that we are serious in wanting to study the same, but feel helpless with the current formats of presentations) .

6) Commercialisation is okay because one needs money to even have a morning cup of Tea, but write books which serve the purpose, for which the reader buys them, and not to confuse them, so that they come back asking for further information.

 

I am sorry and apologise if I have offended anyone connected to the 4 Step, and my full respects to Shri Gondhlekarji for presenting the 4 Step theory to us. He is a very knowledgable man, and I have nothing personal against him, so please ignore the wrong signals if any. I just wish that everyone must be given his due respect as regards to the 4 Step theory for wehatver has been their contributions.

 

Thanks and Regards,

bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

@gro ups.com, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar ji,> > When you say that most of the rules (of 4 step) have already been used by Late Shri. Shahasane you must have presumably understood them. Therefore it is hard to believe that an astrologer of your caliber still find it confusing. Your allegation that these rules are already used by Mr. Shahasane ji seems to be baseless if you say you did not understand the rules at all. > > It was ruled by moderator Mr. Punit Pandey ji that KP is what is described in KP Readers. Any new theories though derived from KP....such as Late Dr. Kar's Theory, K. Baskaran's theory etc are named differently to identify themselves from KP. 4 step theory is also one such theory. Can it be termed as KP just because you are not comfortable with naming it this way? It is your decision not to comment on 4 step any more, however any

constructive comments are always welcome. No system is complete in itself and there is always scope for improvement. Please do not deprive the group members to gain from your vast knowledge and experience.> > Thanks and Regards,> > Subhash Ektare> > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> @gro ups.com> Mon, December 21, 2009 2:56:43 AM> Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?> > > Dear Subhash ji,> // Then I fail to understand why the fact that"he used apparent presently Titled, 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing" may not be of common knowledge? //> What is today known as 4 Step, most of the rules have already been used by Shri Sahasne in his books written many years ago, is what may not be

common knowledge, is what I am tring to say Sir. Removing something from KP, then adding another set of confusing rules to it and naming it "4 Step" is not what I am comfortable with. Shri Sahasne has made improvisations to KP in his books, mentioned the areas where he feels further research must be done, accepted his dissatisfactions in certain areas, but never claimed to be originator of any new theories. > If You have understood the 4 Step well, then you may be fortunate. Any improvisations if makes some sense and is not confusing to a student - Beginner or Advanced level student, is always welcome. I did not even understand properly your translation in the Files Section where a 58 KB File on Fout Step theory Rules are, put up. There are about 10 Ruless mentioned which themselves contain many others within them. Understanding the English in any article is another matter, understanding the rules is a seperate matter, and application of them is

again another junction. When to apply which rules is again confusing. This is my personal opinion as I mentioned before.> About 4 Step I will refrain from commenting further.> kind regards,> Bhaskar.> > > > > @gro ups.com, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ ...> wrote:> >> > Dear Members,> > > > As far as my knowledge goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principles only adding and /or improvising some rules. Further the method of working out signification of each planet is entirely different. To differentiate this aspect from KP (and not get confused as KP) it was suitably titled as "4 Step Theory". Therefore to understand 4 step, knowledge of KP as given in KSK's Readers is necessary. > > > > Secondly, in my personal opinion, I do not find 4 step theory confusing. There are very few rules which can be understood

even by a beginner. In fact I am very comfortable with 4 step theory.> > > > Late Mr. Suresh shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi and these were translated in Hindi and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books must be widely used by many KP astrologers. Then I fail to understand why the fact that"he used apparent presently Titled, 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing" may not be of common knowledge? But if this is a fact, then credit must go to him. Frankly speaking since I have not read his books I cannot comment on this. But there must be many members in this forum who have read his books, can throw some light on this. > > > > Regards,> > Subhash Ekatre> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> > @gro

ups.com> > Sun, December 20, 2009 6:26:09 AM> > Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?> > > > > > Dear Punit ji,> > > > Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight honest replies> > to the queries.> > > > I would like to mention now that my personal opinion is that the 4 Step> > Theory may be too confusing at times with too many heavy weighted> > rules which may not all be understood properly by a student, in complete. > > > > Another fact which may not be of common knowledge,> > is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which were> > written many years ago) has used the apparent presently Titled,> > 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing. > > This may have now later come to be known as 4 Step

with further > > rules added to it , is another matter, but was actually KP in detail> > and improvised. > > > > I would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the usual > > methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules, > > rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally I > > am not comfortable with.> > > > (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way connected with selling of> > above books, nor have any particular interest, except that these books> > are really one of the finest, most simple to understand, and contains> > all KP And improvised rules minus the confusions, so that one can> > understand KP very easily rather than spending 10 years to understand> > Readers or 4 Step).> > > > warm regards,> > Bhaskar.> >

> > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey punitp@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Bhaskar ji,> > > > > > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do comparison.> > > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor of KP.> > > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them unbiased and> > > best of my capabilities.> > > > > > > > > *1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*> > > Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and cons.> > > With the time and research we will have to highlight those points. Also> > > 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of awareness> > > before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is

too early.> > > > > > *2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional*> > > *KP Method ?*> > > As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems. Sunil ji> > > himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any significant> > > advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion, 4-step is> > > still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have seen> > > 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.> > > > > > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in*> > > *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*> > > *references are thrown in here and there. So can*> > > *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *> > > *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*> > >

There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the methods are> > > already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have seen> > > shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often. The> > > shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period of time> > > in KP.> > > > > > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*> > > *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*> > > *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*> > > *books from the Disciples ?*> > > This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or other> > > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers. More> > > research and study is needed.> > > > > > *5) Since Shri KSk was always

for further research and*> > > *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*> > > *apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *> > > *can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without *> > > *disturbing its Structure completely ?*> > > Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP. These> > > are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil> > > ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.> > > > > > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*> > > *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*> > > *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*> > > *that process confuse themselves ?*> > > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP first. Other> > > members can

have different opinion.> > > > > > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*> > > *asnwers are not available unless one applies the *> > > *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *> > > *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*> > > *KP does not seem to work ?*> > > Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.> > > > > > Most of the time it happens because we miss finer KP principles. The number> > > of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that whichever> > > system we use, there is some selections need to be made by astrologer, and> > > there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen that no> > > two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.> > > > > >

Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...wrote:> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*> > > > **> > > > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the> > > > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of> > > > these.> > > >> > > > My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly> > > > and with convictions and fearlessly.> > > >> > > > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?> > > >> > > > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional> > > > KP Method ?> > >

>> > > > 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in> > > > the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but> > > > references are thrown in here and there. So can> > > > we pick up those rules which can help us in KP> > > > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?> > > >> > > > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old> > > > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*> > > > *predictions, * as mentioned in the readers and the other> > > > books from the Disciples ?> > > >> > > > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and> > > > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,> > > > apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step> > > >

can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without> > > > disturbing its Structure completely ?> > > >> > > > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.> > > > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or> > > > should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in> > > > that process *confuse* themselves ?> > > >> > > > 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the> > > > asnwers are not available unless one applies the> > > > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such> > > > charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional> > > > KP does not seem to work ?> > > >> > > > As requested above, please answer the above> > > > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to

necessarily> > > > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the> > > > student community.> > > >> > > > Please do not advise that they are "not different systems"> > > > or just an "improvisation" , because both cannot be applied together.> > > >> > > > regards/Bhaskar.> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>

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Dear Friends,

1. KP is the 'Krishnamurti Padhdhati' of Guruji KSK. There is only KP, no

traditional KP. This is not the extension of the Traditional but applying sub in

the sub lord theory discarding the numerious, complicated and inconsistent

Traditional rules. Pl don't make confusion for KP learners in this KP group.

2. Guruji KSK has used the star lord of the sub lord in only and only

one place of the demonstration example crowing that finding the sub lord theory

makes him crowned with success in the KP Reader III, V & VI. This is to know

what the sub lord is indicationg, as K.M. Subramaniam has done in the Sublord

Speaks 1,2 & 3, i.e. sub is a decider, not a significator like in the Four Step

Theory.

3. The sub-sub theory by Dr. Kar, cuspal interlinks through sub or sub-subs,

Four Step are based on KP, not extension of KP but they are different from KP,

as they can give the different results from KP.

4. Depending on preference, one can use any of them mentioning their names but

pl don't mix up them with KP, and pl don't make confusion for KP learners in

this KP group in learning KP.

5. Any emperical research would be helpful in judging and learning any system

other than just talking and talking to do research without doing one self

anything in this regard.

6. If any more efficient rule is found, pl let us know with evidence of pudding

to eat and it would be grateful.

7. For instance, has someone done any empirical research similar to the part

" XI. OBSERVATION " of the following study note? Pl let us know the results.

4-Step/

A NOTE ON FOUR STEP THEORY.doc

A STUDY NOTE ON FOUR STEP THEORY

Thanks and regards,

TW

 

 

 

, " PEDDA " <ovnmurthy wrote:

>

> Dear Sri Bhaskar & Sri Pandey Ji,

>

> I have gone thru both the emails. In this connection I wish to inform you that

Sri KSK ji out of his experience from Vedic he came out with his concept which

we are calling it as Traditional KP. Guruji during his life time (for human

being longevity is limitation one is not eternal) he invented the sublord

application from vimsothari concept it is also an extension of Vedic and not a

new subject. Becaz of his age limitation he could not do further (at that time

this group activity, computers, net is in the initial stages) research on this

new kp concept (sublord) at that time (1970).

>

> During 1980 I entered from Vedic to Kp and continued the same becaz of its

scientific way of analysis. At that time I used to see the sublord signification

also to give a positive reply to the client when starlord does not in any way

connected to the relevant houses, as sublord is trump card in this system. I

used to see the significance of the sublord, also see the cuspal sublord, or

starlord of relevant cusp, if any of the three conditions are satisfied then I

used counsel the client that he/she could get the desired result. (Becaz it is

our Vaksiddhi we do regular prayers and then predict for the client) Normally

we should not try to predict negative things to the client unless it is

unwarranted. In case of longevity we should be more careful becaz Astrologers

noramlly have good mercury and 5n9 houses for astrology practice, then our Vakk

sidhi should not be used for predicting negative things to the detriment of

Jatakudu. Jatakudu approaches u for mental support thru your knowledge.

>

> I used to predict thru sublord signification also which used to come true

and many of my clients would come back with good feed back. Then during that

time I do not know I am using the 3rd/4th step i.e. sublord and its starlord

theory in my predictions.

>

> Later on the same has come in a form of theory by Sri Sunil ji, more useful in

predictive astrology for the beginners to gain quick recognition in this field.

Now any discussion on this topic whether this method or that method, is draining

our rich and valuable hours which we can safely use in testing the theories with

practical charts which would create the confidence in us.

>

> During 1970s KSK ji has given the first generation 286 Pcs to us now we have

developed it to 5th generation Dual Core systems. That means the old system is

thresh hold for this superstructure. We should concetrate on significators of

ABCDE level (as said by Sri Dhanbalan) and should also see the 4 step theory,

cuspal interlinks, cusps starlords, cuspal interception, to give more accurate

predictions.

>

> I could see this group has now launched into quizs and research activities

instead of spending our valuable time on discussion of old theories which is

accurate / in accurate.

>

> I request all the stalwarts of KP Astrology should launch on new areas where

it requires further research to reach at finer predictions.

>

> O.V.N.Murthy, M.Com. FCS.I CWAI. PGDPA.

> Company Secretary,

> Nizam Sugars Limited,

> Hyderabad-500004A.P.

> Ph.No. Off.23232212 / Res 040 27405975; Mob.9441778427

> www.saibhavishyavani.com

> ovnmurthy

>

>

>

>

>

> , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group, I was going through the

> > Tutorials, and stumbled upon the 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was

> > not unaware of these. My Queries to you which hope would be answered

> > honestly and with convictions and fearlessly. 1) Which system is

> > better. The KP or the 4 Step ? 2) In case the latter, than should we

> > discard the Traditional KP Method ? 3) Certain rules considered as 4

> > Step, are already there in the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed

> > manner, but references are thrown in here and there. So can we pick up

> > those rules which can help us in KP traditional, or totally shift to

> > the 4 Step ? 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the

> > old ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful predictions,

> > as mentioned in the readers and the other books from the Disciples ?

> > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and improvisations, we

> > as students are ready to change, apply and amalgamate . Which rules from

> > the 4 Step can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without

> > disturbing its Structure completely ? 6) What do you advise the new

> > comers who enter KP. should they straight away move towards the 4 step

> > or should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in that process

> > confuse themselves ? 7) I am given to understand that for certain

> > Charts the asnwers are not available unless one applies the 4 Step. In

> > that case what is the percentage of such charts you would give, out of

> > 100, where the Traditional KP does not seem to work ? As requested

> > above, please answer the above honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to

> > necessarily look good, but be truthful to ourselves and the student

> > community. Please do not advise that they are " not different systems "

> > or just an " improvisation " , because both cannot be applied together.

> > regards/Bhaskar.

> >

>

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Dear Bhaskar,

That is exactly where the sub-sub in which it is posited comes into play...

With best wishes,

Yogesh Lajmi.

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Sent: Tue, 22 December, 2009 1:17:18 PM Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?

Dear Shrikant ji,Right.I had asked a similiar question to the members here 2 years ago, aboutwhat must Rahu consider to signify (My own horoscope) if Rahu is in itsown sub. they did not have any answer for this. Then I explained them,what Shri Sahasneji has taught me, and it fills in correctly afterhaving undergone 2 years of Rahu Mahadasha. (We have to move to the subsub Lord now in such cases, and in my case it was Budh, and since noplanet in star of Budh, Shri Sahasneji explained me personally that rahuwill now become a first class significator for Budh who is lord of 2ndand 11th in My chart - Leo ascendant, and that rahu mahadasha will bethe best for you in terms of material )I also asked them what would happen if two planets are conjunct in samedegrees and in same Sub. and if they are running Mahadashas one afterthe other, then what will be the difference in their Mahadasha

results,since the Sub is the same for both mahadasha Lords. Again no answer wasforthcoming from the learned astrologers here. Then I cited a referencefrom Shri Chandrakant bhatts book where it is clearly mentioned that ifRaashi Lord, StarLord, Sublord is same for the two planets, then theplanet which has a subsublord signifying the benefic houses will happento be a better mahadasha.This brought some disaapointment to me when I could find no Learnedmembers here could reply to my two queries above and an ordinary studentand astrologer like me could give the answer due to the grace of hisGuru. I decided to spend less time on the Forum, and concentrate more onwhat could be learnt further.Sorry, if anyone finds any thing irrelevant here.regards,Bhaskar.@gro ups.com, j shrikant <shrikantjin@ ...> wrote:>> dear subhashji,>              Â       Late shri. suresh shahasane was abrilliant kp astrologer.his contribution in training kp> students was great.He conducted for 3 years kp astrology conferancesfor which I was witness.> I was a participant .He encouraged new students in prediction.hisastrology conferances were> directly explanation of 60 horoscopes,in 3days.he advocated planetsignification a simple way> to analyse horoscope.he was a critic of 4 step theory.In his bookjyotishveda in marathi ,he criticised> this method illustrating examples in support of it.>        he said if planet is in its ownstar and also sub how you are going to write your four steps?> According his

practical experiences when planet is in its own starÂand in its own sub we will> get same steps repetedly hence take the significance of subsub.> Â GOOD LUCK> Â shrikantjin@ ...>>>> ____________ _________ _________ __> Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ ...> @gro ups.com> Cc: Subhash Ektare subhash Mon, 21 December, 2009 3:05:03 PM> Re: Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4Step ?>> Â> Dear Subhash,> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ÂÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â I completely agree with you...> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ÂÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Yogesh Lajmi>>>>> ____________ _________ _________

__> Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ >> @gro ups.com> Mon, 21 December, 2009 5:02:39 AM> Re: Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4Step ?>> Â> Dear Members,>> As far as my knowledge goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principlesonly adding and /or improvising some rules. Further the method ofworking out signification of each planet is entirely different. Todifferentiate this aspect from KP (and not get confused as KP) it wassuitably titled as "4 Step Theory". Therefore to understand 4 step,knowledge of KP as given in KSK's Readers is necessary.Â>> Secondly, in my personal opinion, I do not find 4 step theoryconfusing. There are very few rules which can be understood even by abeginner. In fact I am very comfortable with 4 step theory.>> Late Mr.. Suresh

shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi andthese were translated in Hindi and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books mustbe widely used by many KP astrologers. Then I fail to understand why thefact that"he used apparent presently Titled, 4 Step rules,very effectively in KP without making it confusing" may not be of commonknowledge? But if this is a fact, then credit must go to him. Franklyspeaking since I have not read his books I cannot comment on this. Butthere must be many members in this forum who have read his books, canthrow some light on this.Â>> Regards,> Subhash Ekatre>>>>>>> ____________ _________ _________ __> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>> @gro ups.com> Sun, December 20, 2009 6:26:09 AM> Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4

Step?>> Â> Dear Punit ji,> Â> Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight honest replies> to the queries.> Â> I would like to mention now that my personal opinion is that the 4Step> Theory may be too confusing at times with too many heavy weighted> rules which may not all be understood properly by a student, incomplete.> Â> Another fact which may not be of common knowledge,> is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which were> written many years ago) has used the apparent presently Titled,> 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing.Â> This may have now later come to be known as 4 Step with further> rules added to it , is another matter, but was actually KP indetail> and improvised.Â> Â> I would recommend students to learn Traditional KP

through theusual> methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules,> rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personallyI> am not comfortable with.> Â> (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way connected withÂselling of> above books, nor have any particular interest, except that these books> are really one of the finest, most simple to understand, and contains> all KP And improvised rules minus the confusions, so that one can> understand KP very easily rather than spending 10 years to understand> Readers or 4 Step).> Â> warm regards,> Bhaskar.> Â> Â> Â Â> Â Â Â Â Â> @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey punitp@ wrote:> >> > Dear Bhaskar ji,> >> > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to

docomparison.> > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favorof KP.> > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer themunbiased and> > best of my capabilities. .> >> >> > *1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*> > Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros andcons.> > With the time and research we will have to highlight those points.Also> > 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms ofawareness> > before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.> >> > *2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional*> > *KP Method ?*> > As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems.Sunil ji> > himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any

significant> > advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion,4-step is> > still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. Ihave seen> > 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.> >> > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in*> > *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*> > *references are thrown in here and there. So can*> > *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *> > *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*> > There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of themethods are> > already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, wehave seen> > shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often.The> > shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a periodof time>

> in KP.> >> > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*> > *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*> > *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*> > *books from the Disciples ?*> > This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step orother> > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers.More> > research and study is needed.> >> > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and*> > *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*> > *apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *> > *can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without *> > *disturbing its Structure completely ?*> > Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP.These> > are also used extensively

in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil> > ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.> >> > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*> > *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*> > *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*> > *that process confuse themselves ?*> > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KPfirst. Other> > members can have different opinion.> >> > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*> > *asnwers are not available unless one applies the *> > *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *> > *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*> > *KP does not seem to work ?*> > Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.> >> > Most of the time it happens

because we miss finer KP principles. Thenumber> > of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember thatwhichever> > system we use, there is some selections need to be made byastrologer, and> > there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seenthat no> > two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...wrote:> >> > >> > >> > > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*> > > **> > > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the> > > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of> > > these.> > >> > > My Queries to you which hope would

be answered honestly> > > and with convictions and fearlessly..> > >> > > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?> > >> > > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional> > > KP Method ?> > >> > > 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in> > > the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but> > > references are thrown in here and there. So can> > > we pick up those rules which can help us in KP> > > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?> > >> > > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old> > > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*> > > *predictions, * as mentioned in the readers and the other> > > books from the Disciples ?> >

>> > > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and> > > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,> > > apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step> > > can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without> > > disturbing its Structure completely ?> > >> > > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.> > > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or> > > should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in> > > that process *confuse* themselves ?> > >> > > 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the> > > asnwers are not available unless one applies the> > > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such> > > charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional> > > KP does not

seem to work ?> > >> > > As requested above, please answer the above> > > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily> > > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the> > > student community.> > >> > > Please do not advise that they are "not different systems"> > > or just an "improvisation" , because both cannot be appliedtogether.> > >> > > regards/Bhaskar.> > >> > >> > >> > >> >>>> ____________ _________ _________ __> See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.>>>> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.http://in.. com/>

 

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This rule of pointing out which

of the two planets will be favorable on the basic of sub-sub lord is found in

Bhatt's Nakshatra Chintamani, page 42 as well as Astrosecrets and KP Part II,

page 179. With due respect to Shri Bhatt as the best narrator of KP, this

rule is still open to empirical research. For example, for Example chart-1 in

this Bhatt's book, Male, July 7, 1912, 20:42 PM IST, 23N02, 72E35, NKPA

22:32:44, Asc Cap 12:28:12, Sun Gem 22:32:38, Ven Gem 22:57:58 and both planets

in the same star of Jup and same sub of Sat, it is not clear whether Ven Dasa

giving first job, marriage, 3 children, one time regular promotion is

unfavorable for being in the sub-sub of Sun(6,8) and Sun Dasa giving one more

child, one more ordinary promotion and father's death is favorable for being in

the sub-sub of Ven(6,5,10). For Christina Onassis's AA chart, Dec 11, 1950,

20:00 PM, New York, NY, 40N43,74W00, NKPA 23:04:55, Asc Can 12:45:50, Moo Cap

03:32:38, Mar 04:19:07 and both planets in the same star of Sun, same sub Sat,

it is not found the Dasa lord Mar to be more favorable by being in the sub-sub

of Moo(6,1) than Dasa lord Moo in the sub-sub of Mer(6,4,12).as her

happy family life in the Moo Dasa was destroyed due to father's second

marriage, her own marriage to stay away from father and divorce in the Mars

Dasa.

/message/15697

 

 

Shri Bhatt has not taken into consideration of the results

of 'Sub Sub' lord in the example charts of his books.

/message/15783

1. That sub-sub one page had been discussed in this forum some time

ago and it's only there just written and no where practically applied in

other places of his books. In addition, that sub-sub theory doesn't work

for all given life events of the example chart. That is why I used the

word "without the significant deviation from KP"./message/21948--- In , "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:>> > Dear Shrikant ji,> > Right.> > I had asked a similiar question to the members here 2 years ago, about> what must Rahu consider to signify (My own horoscope) if Rahu is in its> own sub. they did not have any answer for this. Then I explained them,> what Shri Sahasneji has taught me, and it fills in correctly after> having undergone 2 years of Rahu Mahadasha. (We have to move to the sub> sub Lord now in such cases, and in my case it was Budh, and since no> planet in star of Budh, Shri Sahasneji explained me personally that rahu> will now become a first class significator for Budh who is lord of 2nd> and 11th in My chart - Leo ascendant, and that rahu mahadasha will be> the best for you in terms of material )> > I also asked them what would happen if two planets are conjunct in same> degrees and in same Sub. and if they are running Mahadashas one after> the other, then what will be the difference in their Mahadasha results,> since the Sub is the same for both mahadasha Lords. Again no answer was> forthcoming from the learned astrologers here. Then I cited a reference> from Shri Chandrakant bhatts book where it is clearly mentioned that if> Raashi Lord, StarLord, Sublord is same for the two planets, then the> planet which has a subsublord signifying the benefic houses will happen> to be a better mahadasha.> > This brought some disaapointment to me when I could find no Learned> members here could reply to my two queries above and an ordinary student> and astrologer like me could give the answer due to the grace of his> Guru. I decided to spend less time on the Forum, and concentrate more on> what could be learnt further.> > Sorry, if anyone finds any thing irrelevant here.> > regards,> > Bhaskar.> > > > > , j shrikant shrikantjin@ wrote:> >> > dear subhashji,> >              Â>        Late shri. suresh shahasane was a> brilliant kp astrologer.his contribution in training kp> > students was great.He conducted for 3 years kp astrology conferances> for which I was witness.> > I was a participant .He encouraged new students in prediction.his> astrology conferances were> > directly explanation of 60 horoscopes,in 3days.he advocated planet> signification a simple way> > to analyse horoscope.he was a critic of 4 step theory.In his book> jyotishveda in marathi ,he criticised> > this method illustrating examples in support of it.> >        he said if planet is in its own> star and also sub how you are going to write your four steps?> > According his practical experiences when planet is in its own starÂ> and in its own sub we will> > get same steps repetedly hence take the significance of subsub.> >  GOOD LUCK> >  shrikantjin@> >> >> >> > ________________________________> > Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@> > > > Cc: Subhash Ektare subhash@> > Mon, 21 December, 2009 3:05:03 PM> > Re: Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4> Step ?> >> > Â> > Dear Subhash,> >              Â>         I completely agree with you...> >              Â>        Yogesh Lajmi> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________> > Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ >> > @gro ups.com> > Mon, 21 December, 2009 5:02:39 AM> > Re: Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4> Step ?> >> > Â> > Dear Members,> >> > As far as my knowledge goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principles> only adding and /or improvising some rules. Further the method of> working out signification of each planet is entirely different. To> differentiate this aspect from KP (and not get confused as KP) it was> suitably titled as "4 Step Theory". Therefore to understand 4 step,> knowledge of KP as given in KSK's Readers is necessary.Â> >> > Secondly, in my personal opinion, I do not find 4 step theory> confusing. There are very few rules which can be understood even by a> beginner. In fact I am very comfortable with 4 step theory.> >> > Late Mr.. Suresh shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi and> these were translated in Hindi and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books must> be widely used by many KP astrologers. Then I fail to understand why the> fact that"he used apparent presently Titled, 4 Step rules,> very effectively in KP without making it confusing" may not be of common> knowledge? But if this is a fact, then credit must go to him. Frankly> speaking since I have not read his books I cannot comment on this. But> there must be many members in this forum who have read his books, can> throw some light on this.Â> >> > Regards,> > Subhash Ekatre> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________> > Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>> > @gro ups.com> > Sun, December 20, 2009 6:26:09 AM> > Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step> ?> >> > Â> > Dear Punit ji,> > Â> > Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight honest replies> > to the queries.> > Â> > I would like to mention now that my personal opinion is that the 4> Step> > Theory may be too confusing at times with too many heavy weighted> > rules which may not all be understood properly by a student, in> complete.> > Â> > Another fact which may not be of common knowledge,> > is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which were> > written many years ago) has used the apparent presently Titled,> > 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing.Â> > This may have now later come to be known as 4 Step with further> > rules added to it , is another matter, but was actually KP in> detail> > and improvised.Â> > Â> > I would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the> usual> > methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules,> > rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally> I> > am not comfortable with.> > Â> > (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way connected withÂ> selling of> > above books, nor have any particular interest, except that these books> > are really one of the finest, most simple to understand, and contains> > all KP And improvised rules minus the confusions, so that one can> > understand KP very easily rather than spending 10 years to understand> > Readers or 4 Step).> > Â> > warm regards,> > Bhaskar.> > Â> > Â> >  Â> >     Â> > @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey punitp@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Bhaskar ji,> > >> > > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do> comparison.> > > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor> of KP.> > > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them> unbiased and> > > best of my capabilities. .> > >> > >> > > *1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*> > > Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and> cons.> > > With the time and research we will have to highlight those points.> Also> > > 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of> awareness> > > before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.> > >> > > *2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional*> > > *KP Method ?*> > > As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems.> Sunil ji> > > himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any significant> > > advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion,> 4-step is> > > still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I> have seen> > > 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.> > >> > > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in*> > > *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*> > > *references are thrown in here and there. So can*> > > *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *> > > *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*> > > There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the> methods are> > > already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we> have seen> > > shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often.> The> > > shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period> of time> > > in KP.> > >> > > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*> > > *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*> > > *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*> > > *books from the Disciples ?*> > > This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or> other> > > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers.> More> > > research and study is needed.> > >> > > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and*> > > *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*> > > *apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *> > > *can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without *> > > *disturbing its Structure completely ?*> > > Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP.> These> > > are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil> > > ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.> > >> > > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*> > > *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*> > > *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*> > > *that process confuse themselves ?*> > > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP> first. Other> > > members can have different opinion.> > >> > > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*> > > *asnwers are not available unless one applies the *> > > *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *> > > *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*> > > *KP does not seem to work ?*> > > Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.> > >> > > Most of the time it happens because we miss finer KP principles. The> number> > > of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that> whichever> > > system we use, there is some selections need to be made by> astrologer, and> > > there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen> that no> > > two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.> > >> > > Thanks & Regards,> > >> > > Punit Pandey> > >> > >> > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...wrote:> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*> > > > **> > > > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the> > > > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of> > > > these.> > > >> > > > My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly> > > > and with convictions and fearlessly.> > > >> > > > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?> > > >> > > > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional> > > > KP Method ?> > > >> > > > 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in> > > > the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but> > > > references are thrown in here and there. So can> > > > we pick up those rules which can help us in KP> > > > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?> > > >> > > > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old> > > > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*> > > > *predictions, * as mentioned in the readers and the other> > > > books from the Disciples ?> > > >> > > > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and> > > > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,> > > > apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step> > > > can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without> > > > disturbing its Structure completely ?> > > >> > > > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.> > > > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or> > > > should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in> > > > that process *confuse* themselves ?> > > >> > > > 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the> > > > asnwers are not available unless one applies the> > > > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such> > > > charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional> > > > KP does not seem to work ?> > > >> > > > As requested above, please answer the above> > > > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily> > > > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the> > > > student community.> > > >> > > > Please do not advise that they are "not different systems"> > > > or just an "improvisation" , because both cannot be applied> together.> > > >> > > > regards/Bhaskar.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >> > ________________________________> > See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.> >> >> >> > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.> http://in./> >>

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dear bhaskar,

pl.dont spread the wrong information about my book.

 

it is containing 97 pages of a4 size with excellent paper quality

and excellentprinting and not a xerox one(which you might be xeroxed from other

sources and not bought from me)with both south/north charts are

mentioned for study.

 

this is my humble request.

 

to study or not to study is depends on indivisuals.

thanks

-sunil gondhalekar

, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

>

> Dear Shri Subhash ji, Thank You Sir for your kind reply. //When you

> say that most of the rules (of 4 step) have already been used by Late

> Shri. Shahasane you must have presumably understood them. // I have

> understood those rules whatever Shri Sahasneji has explained in his

> books. Whatever is taught as " 4 Step " now and presently, I am unable to

> understand fully, and the application part. //Therefore it is hard to

> believe that an astrologer of your caliber still find it confusing. Your

> allegation that these rules are already used by Mr. Shahasane ji seems

> to be baseless if you say you did not understand the rules at all. //

> Thank You, but astrologer of calibre or not , theres no definition or

> scale of measures as such. As explained above, the rules already used

> in Shri Sahasnejis books are understood due to the way its presented in

> a simple manner with proper illustrations.

> //It was ruled by moderator Mr. Punit Pandey ji that KP is what is

> described in KP Readers. Any new theories though derived from KP....such

> as Late Dr. Kar's Theory, K. Baskaran's theory etc are named differently

> to identify themselves from KP. 4 step theory is also one such theory.

> Can it be termed as KP just because you are not comfortable with naming

> it this way? // Shri Punit ji is right when he mentions that all new

> theories, improvisations and additions must be given a seperate name so

> as it is clearly understood by any new entrant to understand what is

> Original KP, and what is beyond KP. I have no issues here. But if its a

> new theory then please be genuine in saying that its Original and that

> no rules have been picked from any other source. If it is not new then

> please mention the source and also acknowledgment of the source, with

> due respect given to the source before we address ourself as the

> originator. Another matter is that before a theory is propounded, then

> please make it undersrandable to at least 70% of the members. In an

> earlier mail where reference was made by Shri Sunil ji, to Shri

> Sahasnejis books that he has not written everything but written articles

> from his Guru Hasbe jis magazines which Shri Sunil Gondhalekarji has

> admitted that Guruji has done the editing, then I do not understand

> wheres the problem if Guruji Hasbe has himself done the editing ? Why

> must we point fingers at anyone ? And why were you silent at that mail ?

> At least for Rs. 300/- the students have got a millions Rupees worth of

> knowledge from his books containing hundreds of examples and simple

> style of explaining the rules. The photo of his Guruji has been put on

> his books, due respect has been given, his Gurujis reference is made in

> almost every second Chapter. Do You see this in Shri Suniljis book which

> I purchased from him for Rs.500- containg 40 pages of large Fonts (Xerox

> Pages) written in a hurried manner, and absolute confused depictions of

> the rules ? No reference to his Guruji, no respect , no acknowledgement,

> just nothing. ( If the Pravchankaar depicting stories from the Ramayana

> to an audience,does not pay respect to the original VedVyas ji who is

> the Author of this epic, and acknowledge them, then how can he gain

> grace of His guru or the respect from the audience who is listening to

> his discourses ?) See I am not concerend with all this, nor am

> interested in Politics, nor care for who acknolwedges whom, but

> mentioning this just because fingers were pointed at Shri Sahasne ji .

> If I am not mistaken Shri Sunilji and Shri Shasneji have learnt KP from

> the same Guru Hasbeji. pointing one finger at others means pointing 3 at

> ourselves, is what made me write above. // It is your decision not to

> comment on 4 step any more, however any constructive comments are always

> welcome. No system is complete in itself and there is always scope for

> improvement. Please do not deprive the group members to gain from your

> vast knowledge and experience. // Sir late Shri Sahasne ji, and Shri

> Gondhlekarji and those from their generations including late Shri

> Raichurji, Yogeshji, etc. are Giants of their areas. We have much to

> learn from them. Theres no question of anybody gaining from us, when

> they are present around with us. And we have still much left to learn

> from whatever they have presented to this generation. Now I will always

> give my comments if they are constructive and you may please answer them

> whenever they come - astrological doubts about 4 Step. And I assure you

> they will be constructive and asking for further learning , and not for

> derision or unnecessary criticism. I humbly submit again - 1) We

> wish to learn the 4 Step, if its really useful. 2) But the present

> formats available for learning 4 Step is not satisfactory. 3) The rules

> are not demercated sufficiently understandable enough. 4) If people like

> your goodself, Shri Tinwinji, Shri Gondhlekarji, Shri Yogeshji, Shri

> Punitji, etc. and whoever has understood the 4 Step properly are able to

> write exhaustive Chapters with illustrations at every Step, and also

> make it in a Book form or make it available on the Net for download, it

> will become very useful for those who have learnt KP and you will be

> doing a wonderful service to the present and coming generations without

> doubt. 5) Even if the Book form costs Rs.1000- I am willing to pay for

> it. (this is to confirm that we are serious in wanting to study the

> same, but feel helpless with the current formats of presentations). 6)

> Commercialisation is okay because one needs money to even have a morning

> cup of Tea, but write books which serve the purpose, for which the

> reader buys them, and not to confuse them, so that they come back asking

> for further information. I am sorry and apologise if I have offended

> anyone connected to the 4 Step, and my full respects to Shri

> Gondhlekarji for presenting the 4 Step theory to us. He is a very

> knowledgable man, and I have nothing personal against him, so please

> ignore the wrong signals if any. I just wish that everyone must be given

> his due respect as regards to the 4 Step theory for wehatver has been

> their contributions. Thanks and Regards, bhaskar.

>

, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Bhaskar ji,

> >

> > When you say that most of the rules (of 4 step) have already been used

> by Late Shri. Shahasane you must have presumably understood them.

> Therefore it is hard to believe that an astrologer of your caliber still

> find it confusing. Your allegation that these rules are already used by

> Mr. Shahasane ji seems to be baseless if you say you did not understand

> the rules at all.

> >

> > It was ruled by moderator Mr. Punit Pandey ji that KP is what is

> described in KP Readers. Any new theories though derived from KP....such

> as Late Dr. Kar's Theory, K. Baskaran's theory etc are named differently

> to identify themselves from KP. 4 step theory is also one such theory.

> Can it be termed as KP just because you are not comfortable with naming

> it this way? It is your decision not to comment on 4 step any more,

> however any constructive comments are always welcome. No system is

> complete in itself and there is always scope for improvement. Please do

> not deprive the group members to gain from your vast knowledge and

> experience.

> >

> > Thanks and Regards,

> >

> > Subhash Ektare

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@

> >

> > Mon, December 21, 2009 2:56:43 AM

> > Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step

> ?

> >

> >

> > Dear Subhash ji,

> > // Then I fail to understand why the fact that " he used apparent

> presently Titled, 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it

> confusing " may not be of common knowledge? //

> > What is today known as 4 Step, most of the rules have already been

> used by Shri Sahasne in his books written many years ago, is what may

> not be common knowledge, is what I am tring to say Sir. Removing

> something from KP, then adding another set of confusing rules to it and

> naming it " 4 Step " is not what I am comfortable with. Shri Sahasne has

> made improvisations to KP in his books, mentioned the areas where he

> feels further research must be done, accepted his dissatisfactions in

> certain areas, but never claimed to be originator of any new theories.

> > If You have understood the 4 Step well, then you may be fortunate. Any

> improvisations if makes some sense and is not confusing to a student -

> Beginner or Advanced level student, is always welcome. I did not even

> understand properly your translation in the Files Section where a 58 KB

> File on Fout Step theory Rules are, put up. There are about 10 Ruless

> mentioned which themselves contain many others within them.

> Understanding the English in any article is another matter,

> understanding the rules is a seperate matter, and application of them is

> again another junction. When to apply which rules is again confusing.

> This is my personal opinion as I mentioned before.

> > About 4 Step I will refrain from commenting further.

> > kind regards,

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > @gro ups.com, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@

> ...> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Members,

> > >

> > > As far as my knowledge goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principles

> only adding and /or improvising some rules. Further the method of

> working out signification of each planet is entirely different. To

> differentiate this aspect from KP (and not get confused as KP) it was

> suitably titled as " 4 Step Theory " . Therefore to understand 4 step,

> knowledge of KP as given in KSK's Readers is necessary.

> > >

> > > Secondly, in my personal opinion, I do not find 4 step theory

> confusing. There are very few rules which can be understood even by a

> beginner. In fact I am very comfortable with 4 step theory.

> > >

> > > Late Mr. Suresh shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi

> and these were translated in Hindi and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books

> must be widely used by many KP astrologers. Then I fail to understand

> why the fact that " he used apparent presently Titled, 4 Step rules, very

> effectively in KP without making it confusing " may not be of common

> knowledge? But if this is a fact, then credit must go to him. Frankly

> speaking since I have not read his books I cannot comment on this. But

> there must be many members in this forum who have read his books, can

> throw some light on this.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Subhash Ekatre

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...

> > > @gro ups.com

> > > Sun, December 20, 2009 6:26:09 AM

> > > Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4

> Step ?

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Punit ji,

> > >

> > > Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight honest

> replies

> > > to the queries.

> > >

> > > I would like to mention now that my personal opinion is that the 4

> Step

> > > Theory may be too confusing at times with too many heavy weighted

> > > rules which may not all be understood properly by a student, in

> complete.

> > >

> > > Another fact which may not be of common knowledge,

> > > is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which were

> > > written many years ago) has used the apparent presently Titled,

> > > 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing.

> > > This may have now later come to be known as 4 Step with further

> > > rules added to it , is another matter, but was actually KP in detail

> > > and improvised.

> > >

> > > I would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the usual

> > > methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules,

> > > rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry,

> personally I

> > > am not comfortable with.

> > >

> > > (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way connected with selling

> of

> > > above books, nor have any particular interest, except that these

> books

> > > are really one of the finest, most simple to understand, and

> contains

> > > all KP And improvised rules minus the confusions, so that one can

> > > understand KP very easily rather than spending 10 years to

> understand

> > > Readers or 4 Step).

> > >

> > > warm regards,

> > > Bhaskar.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey punitp@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Bhaskar ji,

> > > >

> > > > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do

> comparison.

> > > > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in

> favor of KP.

> > > > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them

> unbiased and

> > > > best of my capabilities.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > *1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*

> > > > Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros

> and cons.

> > > > With the time and research we will have to highlight those points.

> Also

> > > > 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of

> awareness

> > > > before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is too early.

> > > >

> > > > *2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional*

> > > > *KP Method ?*

> > > > As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems.

> Sunil ji

> > > > himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any

> significant

> > > > advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion,

> 4-step is

> > > > still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I

> have seen

> > > > 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.

> > > >

> > > > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in*

> > > > *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*

> > > > *references are thrown in here and there. So can*

> > > > *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *

> > > > *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*

> > > > There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the

> methods are

> > > > already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we

> have seen

> > > > shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more

> often. The

> > > > shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period

> of time

> > > > in KP.

> > > >

> > > > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*

> > > > *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*

> > > > *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*

> > > > *books from the Disciples ?*

> > > > This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or

> other

> > > > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers.

> More

> > > > research and study is needed.

> > > >

> > > > *5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and*

> > > > *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*

> > > > *apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *

> > > > *can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without *

> > > > *disturbing its Structure completely ?*

> > > > Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in

> KP. These

> > > > are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil

> > > > ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.

> > > >

> > > > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*

> > > > *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*

> > > > *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*

> > > > *that process confuse themselves ?*

> > > > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP

> first. Other

> > > > members can have different opinion.

> > > >

> > > > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*

> > > > *asnwers are not available unless one applies the *

> > > > *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *

> > > > *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*

> > > > *KP does not seem to work ?*

> > > > Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.

> > > >

> > > > Most of the time it happens because we miss finer KP principles.

> The number

> > > > of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that

> whichever

> > > > system we use, there is some selections need to be made by

> astrologer, and

> > > > there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have

> seen that no

> > > > two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks & Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Punit Pandey

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@

> ...wrote:

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*

> > > > > **

> > > > > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the

> > > > > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of

> > > > > these.

> > > > >

> > > > > My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly

> > > > > and with convictions and fearlessly.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?

> > > > >

> > > > > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional

> > > > > KP Method ?

> > > > >

> > > > > 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in

> > > > > the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but

> > > > > references are thrown in here and there. So can

> > > > > we pick up those rules which can help us in KP

> > > > > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?

> > > > >

> > > > > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old

> > > > > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*

> > > > > *predictions, * as mentioned in the readers and the other

> > > > > books from the Disciples ?

> > > > >

> > > > > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and

> > > > > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,

> > > > > apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step

> > > > > can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without

> > > > > disturbing its Structure completely ?

> > > > >

> > > > > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.

> > > > > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or

> > > > > should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in

> > > > > that process *confuse* themselves ?

> > > > >

> > > > > 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the

> > > > > asnwers are not available unless one applies the

> > > > > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such

> > > > > charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional

> > > > > KP does not seem to work ?

> > > > >

> > > > > As requested above, please answer the above

> > > > > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to necessarily

> > > > > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the

> > > > > student community.

> > > > >

> > > > > Please do not advise that they are " not different systems "

> > > > > or just an " improvisation " , because both cannot be applied

> together.

> > > > >

> > > > > regards/Bhaskar.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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Dear Bhaskar,

Whatever Punit says,as quoted by you, is not necessarily correct...because,if as he says,anything written in K.P. Readers is K.P., than are all other students who have contributed a variety of research articles, in K.P. & Athrishta & K.P. & Astrology...do not use K.P. ? ? !

Truly,a laughable statement indeed, if Punit has truly said so... Yogesh Lajmi.

 

 

 

Amit Soman <amitbs2002Sent: Tue, 22 December, 2009 5:57:27 PMRe: Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?

 

 

Dear Mr. Bhaskar,

 

If i sum up your mail i understand that,You need more clarity on 4 step rules. If this is right i would suggest that you write your specific requirements / doubts to Sunilji / Subhashji . My experience is that they reply 100%.

 

Regards

Amit Soman

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>@gro ups.comTue, December 22, 2009 2:33:14 AM Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?

 

 

Dear Shri Subhash ji,

 

Thank You Sir for your kind reply.

 

//When you say that most of the rules (of 4 step) have already been used by Late Shri. Shahasane you must have presumably understood them. //

 

I have understood those rules whatever Shri Sahasneji has explained in his books. Whatever is taught as "4 Step" now and presently, I am unable to understand fully, and the application part.

 

//Therefore it is hard to believe that an astrologer of your caliber still find it confusing. Your allegation that these rules are already used by Mr. Shahasane ji seems to be baseless if you say you did not understand the rules at all. //

 

Thank You, but astrologer of calibre or not , theres no definition or scale of measures as such.

As explained above, the rules already used in Shri Sahasnejis books are understood due to the way its presented in a simple manner with proper illustrations.

 

//It was ruled by moderator Mr. Punit Pandey ji that KP is what is described in KP Readers. Any new theories though derived from KP....such as Late Dr. Kar's Theory, K. Baskaran's theory etc are named differently to identify themselves from KP. 4 step theory is also one such theory. Can it be termed as KP just because you are not comfortable with naming it this way? //

 

Shri Punit ji is right when he mentions that all new theories, improvisations and additions must be given a seperate name so as it is clearly understood by any new entrant to understand what is Original KP, and what is beyond KP. I have no issues here. But if its a new theory then please be genuine in saying that its Original and that no rules have been picked from any other source. If it is not new then please mention the source and also acknowledgment of the source, with due respect given to the source before we address ourself as the originator. Another matter is that before a theory is propounded, then please make it undersrandable to at least 70% of the members. In an earlier mail where reference was made by Shri Sunil ji, to Shri Sahasnejis books that he has not written everything but written articles from his Guru Hasbe jis magazines which Shri Sunil Gondhalekarji has admitted that Guruji has done the

editing, then I do not understand wheres the problem if Guruji Hasbe has himself done the editing ? Why must we point fingers at anyone ? And why were you silent at that mail ? At least for Rs. 300/- the students have got a millions Rupees worth of knowledge from his books containing hundreds of examples and simple style of explaining the rules. The photo of his Guruji has been put on his books, due respect has been given, his Gurujis reference is made in almost every second Chapter. Do You see this in Shri Suniljis book which I purchased from him for Rs.500- containg 40 pages of large Fonts (Xerox Pages) written in a hurried manner, and absolute confused depictions of the rules ? No reference to his Guruji, no respect , no acknowledgement, just nothing.

( If the Pravchankaar depicting stories from the Ramayana to an audience,does not pay respect to the original VedVyas ji who is the Author of this epic, and acknowledge them, then how can he gain grace of His guru or the respect from the audience who is listening to his discourses ?) See I am not concerend with all this, nor am interested in Politics, nor care for who acknolwedges whom, but mentioning this just because fingers were pointed at Shri Sahasne ji . If I am not mistaken Shri Sunilji and Shri Shasneji have learnt KP from the same Guru Hasbeji. pointing one finger at others means pointing 3 at ourselves, is what made me write above.

 

// It is your decision not to comment on 4 step any more, however any constructive comments are always welcome. No system is complete in itself and there is always scope for improvement. Please do not deprive the group members to gain from your vast knowledge and experience. //

 

Sir late Shri Sahasne ji, and Shri Gondhlekarji and those from their generations including late Shri Raichurji, Yogeshji, etc. are Giants of their areas. We have much to learn from them. Theres no question of anybody gaining from us, when they are present around with us. And we have still much left to learn from whatever they have presented to this generation. Now I will always give my comments if they are constructive and you may please answer them whenever they come - astrological doubts about 4 Step. And I assure you they will be constructive and asking for further learning , and not for derision or unnecessary criticism.

 

I humbly submit again -

 

1) We wish to learn the 4 Step, if its really useful.

2) But the present formats available for learning 4 Step is not satisfactory.

3) The rules are not demercated sufficiently understandable enough.

4) If people like your goodself, Shri Tinwinji, Shri Gondhlekarji, Shri Yogeshji, Shri Punitji, etc. and whoever has understood the 4 Step properly are able to write exhaustive Chapters with illustrations at every Step, and also make it in a Book form or make it available on the Net for download, it will become very useful for those who have learnt KP and you will be doing a wonderful service to the present and coming generations without doubt.

5) Even if the Book form costs Rs.1000- I am willing to pay for it. (this is to confirm that we are serious in wanting to study the same, but feel helpless with the current formats of presentations) .

6) Commercialisation is okay because one needs money to even have a morning cup of Tea, but write books which serve the purpose, for which the reader buys them, and not to confuse them, so that they come back asking for further information.

 

I am sorry and apologise if I have offended anyone connected to the 4 Step, and my full respects to Shri Gondhlekarji for presenting the 4 Step theory to us. He is a very knowledgable man, and I have nothing personal against him, so please ignore the wrong signals if any. I just wish that everyone must be given his due respect as regards to the 4 Step theory for wehatver has been their contributions.

 

Thanks and Regards,

bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

@gro ups.com, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar ji,> > When you say that most of the rules (of 4 step) have already been used by Late Shri. Shahasane you must have presumably understood them. Therefore it is hard to believe that an astrologer of your caliber still find it confusing. Your allegation that these rules are already used by Mr. Shahasane ji seems to be baseless if you say you did not understand the rules at all. > > It was ruled by moderator Mr. Punit Pandey ji that KP is what is described in KP Readers. Any new theories though derived from KP....such as Late Dr. Kar's Theory, K. Baskaran's theory etc are named differently to identify themselves from KP. 4 step theory is also one such theory. Can it be termed as KP just because you are not comfortable with naming it this way? It is your decision not to comment on 4 step any more, however any

constructive comments are always welcome. No system is complete in itself and there is always scope for improvement. Please do not deprive the group members to gain from your vast knowledge and experience.> > Thanks and Regards,> > Subhash Ektare> > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> @gro ups.com> Mon, December 21, 2009 2:56:43 AM> Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?> > > Dear Subhash ji,> // Then I fail to understand why the fact that"he used apparent presently Titled, 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing" may not be of common knowledge? //> What is today known as 4 Step, most of the rules have already been used by Shri Sahasne in his books written many years ago, is what may not be

common knowledge, is what I am tring to say Sir. Removing something from KP, then adding another set of confusing rules to it and naming it "4 Step" is not what I am comfortable with. Shri Sahasne has made improvisations to KP in his books, mentioned the areas where he feels further research must be done, accepted his dissatisfactions in certain areas, but never claimed to be originator of any new theories. > If You have understood the 4 Step well, then you may be fortunate. Any improvisations if makes some sense and is not confusing to a student - Beginner or Advanced level student, is always welcome. I did not even understand properly your translation in the Files Section where a 58 KB File on Fout Step theory Rules are, put up. There are about 10 Ruless mentioned which themselves contain many others within them. Understanding the English in any article is another matter, understanding the rules is a seperate matter, and application of them is

again another junction. When to apply which rules is again confusing. This is my personal opinion as I mentioned before.> About 4 Step I will refrain from commenting further.> kind regards,> Bhaskar.> > > > > @gro ups.com, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ ...> wrote:> >> > Dear Members,> > > > As far as my knowledge goes, 4 step theory is based on KP principles only adding and /or improvising some rules. Further the method of working out signification of each planet is entirely different. To differentiate this aspect from KP (and not get confused as KP) it was suitably titled as "4 Step Theory". Therefore to understand 4 step, knowledge of KP as given in KSK's Readers is necessary. > > > > Secondly, in my personal opinion, I do not find 4 step theory confusing. There are very few rules which can be understood

even by a beginner. In fact I am very comfortable with 4 step theory.> > > > Late Mr. Suresh shahasane has written many books on KP in Marathi and these were translated in Hindi and Gujrathi, I suppose. These books must be widely used by many KP astrologers. Then I fail to understand why the fact that"he used apparent presently Titled, 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing" may not be of common knowledge? But if this is a fact, then credit must go to him. Frankly speaking since I have not read his books I cannot comment on this. But there must be many members in this forum who have read his books, can throw some light on this. > > > > Regards,> > Subhash Ekatre> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> > @gro

ups.com> > Sun, December 20, 2009 6:26:09 AM> > Re: Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?> > > > > > Dear Punit ji,> > > > Thanks for spending time on my mail and giving straight honest replies> > to the queries.> > > > I would like to mention now that my personal opinion is that the 4 Step> > Theory may be too confusing at times with too many heavy weighted> > rules which may not all be understood properly by a student, in complete. > > > > Another fact which may not be of common knowledge,> > is that Late Shri Suresh Sahasneji in his books (which were> > written many years ago) has used the apparent presently Titled,> > 4 Step rules, very effectively in KP without making it confusing. > > This may have now later come to be known as 4 Step

with further > > rules added to it , is another matter, but was actually KP in detail> > and improvised. > > > > I would recommend students to learn Traditional KP through the usual > > methods and also read the above books for grasping of further rules, > > rather than going for 4 Step straightaway which I am sorry, personally I > > am not comfortable with.> > > > (Let me also clear this, that I am in no way connected with selling of> > above books, nor have any particular interest, except that these books> > are really one of the finest, most simple to understand, and contains> > all KP And improvised rules minus the confusions, so that one can> > understand KP very easily rather than spending 10 years to understand> > Readers or 4 Step).> > > > warm regards,> > Bhaskar.> >

> > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey punitp@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Bhaskar ji,> > > > > > We have seen some heated debate in this forum when we try to do comparison.> > > This is a KP forum, so naturally the answer will be biased in favor of KP.> > > Even then, let me take some of the questions and answer them unbiased and> > > best of my capabilities.> > > > > > > > > *1) Which system is better. The KP or the 4 Step ?*> > > Comparison of any two systems is good. All systems do have pros and cons.> > > With the time and research we will have to highlight those points. Also> > > 4-step is a new system so it will take some time in terms of awareness> > > before even we start comparing it. In my opinion, it is

too early.> > > > > > *2) In case the latter, than should we discard the Traditional*> > > *KP Method ?*> > > As per my earlier answer, it is too early to compare the systems. Sunil ji> > > himself participate in some of the quizzes etc. and any significant> > > advantages of 4-step over KP has yet to be found. In my opinion, 4-step is> > > still a system under development and highly dependent upon KP. I have seen> > > 4-step astrologers mixing KP extensively.> > > > > > *3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are already there in*> > > *the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but*> > > *references are thrown in here and there. So can*> > > *we pick up those rules which can help us in KP *> > > *traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?*> > >

There are KP astrologer already using those methods. Some of the methods are> > > already part of modern KP. From 1966 edition to 1971 edition, we have seen> > > shift towards using sub-lord (both planetary and cuspal) more often. The> > > shift is continuing and the use of sub has increased over a period of time> > > in KP.> > > > > > *4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old*> > > *ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much wonderful*> > > *predictions, as mentioned in the readers and the other*> > > *books from the Disciples ?*> > > This is a tough question. Neither KP practitioners, nor 4-step or other> > > practitioners are able to achieve the level we found in readers. More> > > research and study is needed.> > > > > > *5) Since Shri KSk was always

for further research and*> > > *improvisations, we as students are ready to change,*> > > *apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step *> > > *can be picked up and applied to the Traditional without *> > > *disturbing its Structure completely ?*> > > Positional strength and role of sub's star is already in use in KP. These> > > are also used extensively in 4-step theory. If I remember Sunil> > > ji correctly, most of them are borrowed from KP only.> > > > > > *6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.*> > > *should they straight away move towards the 4 step or*> > > *should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in*> > > *that process confuse themselves ?*> > > As the basics of 4-step is in KP, I recommend going through KP first. Other> > > members can

have different opinion.> > > > > > *7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the*> > > *asnwers are not available unless one applies the *> > > *4 Step. In that case what is the percentage of such *> > > *charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional*> > > *KP does not seem to work ?*> > > Truly speaking I am not in agreement with this saying.> > > > > > Most of the time it happens because we miss finer KP principles. The number> > > of such charts are not very high. Though we must remember that whichever> > > system we use, there is some selections need to be made by astrologer, and> > > there comes the difference. For example, in the quizzes we have seen that no> > > two KP or 4-step astrologers came up with the same answer.> > > > > >

Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...wrote:> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > *Dear Learned Senior astrologers of the Group,*> > > > **> > > > I was going through the Tutorials, and stumbled upon the> > > > 4 Step theory rules. Of Course I was not unaware of> > > > these.> > > >> > > > My Queries to you which hope would be answered honestly> > > > and with convictions and fearlessly.> > > >> > > > 1) Which system is *better*. The KP or the 4 Step ?> > > >> > > > 2) In case the latter, than should we *discard* the Traditional> > > > KP Method ?> > >

>> > > > 3) Certain rules considered as 4 Step, are *already there* in> > > > the KP Traditional , albeit not in detailed manner, but> > > > references are thrown in here and there. So can> > > > we pick up those rules which can help us in KP> > > > traditional, or totally shift to the 4 Step ?> > > >> > > > 4) If the 4 step Theory is better, than how could the old> > > > ptactioners of Traditional KP, give so much *wonderful*> > > > *predictions, * as mentioned in the readers and the other> > > > books from the Disciples ?> > > >> > > > 5) Since Shri KSk was always for further research and> > > > improvisations, we as students are ready to change,> > > > apply and amalgamate . Which rules from the 4 Step> > > >

can be picked up and *applied to the Traditional* without> > > > disturbing its Structure completely ?> > > >> > > > 6) What do you advise the new comers who enter KP.> > > > should they straight away move towards the 4 step or> > > > should they study both the KP and the 4 step and in> > > > that process *confuse* themselves ?> > > >> > > > 7) I am given to understand that for certain Charts the> > > > asnwers are not available unless one applies the> > > > 4 Step. In that case *what is the percentage* of such> > > > charts you would give, out of 100, where the Traditional> > > > KP does not seem to work ?> > > >> > > > As requested above, please answer the above> > > > honesty and fearlessly. We do not have to

necessarily> > > > look good, but be *truthful* to ourselves and the> > > > student community.> > > >> > > > Please do not advise that they are "not different systems"> > > > or just an "improvisation" , because both cannot be applied together.> > > >> > > > regards/Bhaskar.> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>

 

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