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Bhaskar Ji ,Tw Ji & others

We get this rule from-

Method 8 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham

The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant, if the Ascendant is correct.Reference: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam

With thanks & regards,

Dhirendra Nath Misra

 

 

 

 

 

Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi Cc: Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotishWed, December 30, 2009 9:50:34 PMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

Dear Bhaskar,

The Time of Epoch,or the exact time when the human egg is fertilised is approximately 273 days before the TOB....in most cases of normal deliveries.. .

Ms. Linda Goodman, in her excellent Book, "Love Signs", has written an article captioned

"A Time to Embrace"...in which she has said that ancient Kings were advised by their astrologers ,

shamans etc.,that the best time for the Queen to conceive was during the few hours when the Sun and Moon,are exactly at the same number of degrees apart,as they were at the Time of her birth.

It was later found by KSK and researched upon by K.P. Scholars,that the Ruling Planets

at the fertilisation (of the human egg,by the human sperm),were the very same at theTime of Birth (and also of one's death,too !)...in around over 60 % of cases...

Further research showed that at the EXACT Time Of Birth,the Ascendant sublord should the same or is in the same star of the Moon's Star-lord...(which can be extended to,depending upon the SW one is using to... Ascendant's sub lord and sub-sub-lord which should appear as the starlord and sub-lord of the Moon.)

This is the background for what is said by the late Shri M.P.Shanmugham in his very illuminating book...and perhaps what Mr.Dhirendranath was trying to say...

With kind regards,

Yogesh Lajmi

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>@gro ups.comTue, 29 December, 2009 10:46:39 PM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Dear Mishra ji,Logic or not, is a seperate matter, but - Where do we get this rule inmost cases ???regards/Bhaskar.@gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra<dhirendranathmisra wrote:>> Dear D.Senthil Sir,>              Â             Â       // "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"> Â> Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂthe above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONGONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂsaying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply aUSLESS RULE ONLY. //> Â>   Â

          Â             Canyou once again shed some light on the above as to why we get in mostof the cases "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub =Natal MOON Sub" even if there is no logic.Certainly in few cases theabove condition does not apply and necessity arose to find outÂperfect rule beyond doubt.> With thanks & regards,Â> Dhirendra Nath Misra> Â>>>>> ____________ _________ _________ __> Senthil athi_ram @gro ups.com> Tue, December 29, 2009 5:59:23 AM> Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?>> Â> Dear Members,>> The RULE,> Â> "Natal Asc

Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"> Â> Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂthe above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONGONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂsaying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply aUSLESS RULE ONLY.> Â> GOOD LUCK!!>>> D.Senthil>>>> --- On Mon, 12/28/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @ymail.com> wrote:>>> >Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @ ymail.com>> >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?> >@gro ups.com> >Monday, December 28, 2009, 6:54 AM> >> >> >Â> >Dear Sir,The above rule may

be accepted as true if by shiftingrecorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this thedifferent astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birthtime further for different ayanamsas.> >With thanks & regards,Â> >Dhirendra Nath Misra> >Â> >> >> >> >> >> ____________ _________ _________ __> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>> >@gro ups.com> >Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >Â> >Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. Buttrying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half anhour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist

whohas come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will lookat us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not readyto listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark.Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that thenatives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recordingof the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before Ipronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwiseI would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moonis not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift thetime to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect.> >> >Bhaskar.> >> >@gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>wrote:> >>> >> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society,

andyou will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?> >>> >> Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then notethe time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the deliveryroom ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested? Good..> >>> >> Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods andsuch topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time ofBirth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? Andwhat is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going togo about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physicalchecking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, wemust ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated andbecome pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we mustcheck for a girl who

is asking whether she will have love marriage ornot- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love isthere between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ?Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?> >>> >> Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Whycant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnaliato predict ?> >>> >> If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will beable to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type ofastrology are we into ?> >>> >> And after having known the time of the first cry, do You thinkwhatever you predict will be right ?> >>> >> Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one.He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his powerof

discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.> >>> >> Bhaskar.> >>> >>> >>> >> @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh"<suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> >> >> >> > Dear Punitji> >> >> >> > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connectionwith nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actualtime of first cry.> >> >> >> > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> >> >> >> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> >> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> >> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A> >> > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> >> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)>

>> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a thirdplanet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentionedorb with C> >> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> >> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> >> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,withspecified orb)> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Regards> >> >> >> > Suprakash> >> >> >> >> >> > -> >> > Punit Pandey> >> > @gro ups.com> >> > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>

>> >> > Dear Suprakash ji,> >> >> >> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have anyalternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please letus know how you want to do it?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc andMoon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we havethis definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moonconnection method with your suggestions incorporated.> >> >> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> >> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh<suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> >> >> >>

>> >> >> >> > Dear Punit ji> >> >> >> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let usknow the basic conditions assumed during the test.> >> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What wasthe genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all thecharts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What Imean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connectionapparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they haveexchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed inthis way?> >> >> >> > If not, then the test has no relevance.> >> >> >> > Regards> >> >> >> > Suprakash> >> >> >> >> >> > ----- Original Message

-----> >> > Punit Pandey> >> > @gro ups.com> >> > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Suresh ji,> >> >> >> > Please see your post (http://groups./ / group//message/ 30047). I quote -> >> >> >> > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji ispracticable as well as logical."> >> > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is likere-inventing the wheel."> >> > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method asbest suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and

insistfurther research on the subject is surprising."> >> >> >> > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" andthe study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the filesection and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercelybut what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That isthe reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.Your opinion (point no.. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommendfollowing them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods.> >> >> >> > What we are doing is not further research but merely verificationof available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a longtime, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. Itmay not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely ininterest of KP. Instead of

appreciating this verification process andparticipating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attentionand making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale andwe all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of thisexercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally theKP will win.> >> >> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> >> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@>wrote:> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Punitji,> >> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You haveobviously not read full comment where I have said you can test thismethod for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a

rawnerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seemto question value of his experience.My only point is research done in somany directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of datawill be interpreted differently by different people as will be evidentif you have read subsequent post.> >> > Suresh Hattangadi> >> >> >>> >> >> >>

 

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Dear Tw Ji, Please guide me if rules framed by Mr.M.P. Shanmugham apply in the following charts or it is also imiginary :

Method 8 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham

The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant, if the Ascendant is correct.Reference: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam

[1] Male baby (Suyash)

DOB-06th April,1998

TOB-Recorded Time- 10:12AM[Recorded time of first cry]

POB-Haldwani, District- Nainital

Latitude-29N13

Longitude-79E31

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Asc-Sub lord= Moon sub lord=Venus

Asc sub sub lord =Moon star lord=Mercury

 

Other Birth Particulars,

 

[2]Daughter was born in hospital- Time of first cry was recorded

DOB-24th June,1995

TOB-10:56PM

POB-Basti,U. P

Latitude-26N48

Longitude 82E44

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Sun

Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub = Saturn

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

 

[3]My own

DOB-20th April,1959

TOB-08:15AM( Recorded Time) as noted in Janm Patri,Rectified by me as 08:15:56 AM for K.P Ayanamsa only.I think at that time watch was either slow by 56 seconds or watch had not hand showing time up to second.

POB-Basti,U. P,India.

Latitude-26N48

Longitude-82E44

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord = Venus

Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord =Saturn

 

[4]Female,National Institute of Health,Washington D.C

DOB-20.09.1977

POB-Mumbai

TOB-08:30:50AM

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Ketu

Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub =Venus

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

 

[5] K.S.Krishnamurty Ji

DOB-01-11-1908

TOB-12:07:30PM

POB-Thiruvayuru

Asc sub lord =Moon star lord=Moon

Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord = Mars

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

 

Does there any rule apply? Does recorded birth time of first cry reveal any rule or on what basis you can deny this time.More recorded time of first cry may be collected,if required for study.

With thanks and regards,

Dhirendra Nath Misra

 

 

 

 

 

TW <tw853 Sent: Wed, December 30, 2009 6:51:01 PM Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

Dear Dhirendra Nath Misra,

Could you or imaginer of this rule or anyone else kindly provide any chart, for which this rule* is correct, in the whole published astrological literature (Western, Eastern KP, Vedic in English, etc), to prove that it can be correct as you are saying. * as stated in the attachment Thanks and regards,TW

Asc Sub = Moon Star & simultaneously Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule(What is this? How to be applied? by Statements and Live Charts?) Statements (1-6)http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 16098?threaded= 1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 17262?threaded= 1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20847?threaded= 1 & l=1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22223?threaded= 1 & l=1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22262?threaded= 1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28249?threaded= 1 & l=1 Chart 1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20694http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20759CUSP Sgl Stl Sbl Ssl :PLANET Sgl Stl Sbl SsL RULING PLANETSASC Mar Sat Moo Ven :SUN. Mer Mar Mer Mer ASC STL :Sat2nd Jup Ket Mer Mer :MOON Sat Moo Ven Ven ASC SGL :Mar(the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Moon & Venus, appear as the

Moon's star lord and sublord respectively) Chart 2http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22473http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22482?threaded= 1 & l=1I am pleased to inform you that the exact Time of Birth works out to :00,00,16 A.M., on 12-04-1960.. .(used K.P.Ayanamsa only)Such that, the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Mars & Jupiter, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively. .. ! Chart 3http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 23290http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 23309?threaded= 1 & l=1Rakesh's TOB requires a small correction.. .The exact Birth Time of Rakesh is 02-25-00 A.M.Kindly cast the chart for this TOB and check...(the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Mercury & Mercury, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively) Chart 4http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27814http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27822?threaded= 1 & l=1Your EXACT Birth Time,is 04-17-00. AM. IST.,as per K.P. System,using Krishnamurthi Ayanamsa,and the late Mr.A.R.Raichur' s SW... For this TOB,the sub-lord and the sub-sub-lord of your

Ascendant,Mars and Saturn,respectively will appear as the Moon's Star-lord and sub-lord respectively. Chart 5http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27631?threaded= 1 & l=1Kindly recall that as far back as on 12-10-2006,I had corrected your TOB be EXACTLY, 10-14-30....http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28059?threaded= 1 & l=1 I am pleased to inform you that the TOB rectified by me was confirmed by Mr. Gurmeet Singh...10-14- 30 AM. IST at Ludhiana...I have sent many a BTRs through this site...ALL of them have proved correct,except perhaps a single exception...http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28061?threaded= 1 & l=1The correct birth time is 10:14:30 AM. Lajmi ji and I rectified my birth time.(the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Venus & Mercury, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively) Chart 6http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27685http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27706Kindly correct the Birth Time in the Chart,as per K.P., you will find a different picture...as the TOB will emerge as 08-18-00. AM.Then analyse the IInd cusp for financial position/standing. ..CUSP Sgl Stl Sbl Ssl :PLANET Sgl Stl Sbl SsLASC Ven Jup Ven

Sat :SUN. Ven Moo Moo Jup 2nd Mar Mer Jup Moo :MO Jup Ven Sat Mer (the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Venus & Saturn, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively) Chart 7http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28523?threaded= 1 & l=1http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28588Did you check whether the TOB is correct ?I have corrected the TOB,it is 18-29-00.CUSP Sgl Stl Sbl Ssl :PLANET Sgl Stl Sbl SsL ASC Ven Jup Ven Sat :SUN. Ven Moo Moo Jup

2nd Mar Mer Jup Moo :MOO Jup Ven Sat Mer(the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Venus & Saturn, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively)

@gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3 minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth time further for different ayanamsas.> With thanks & regards, > Dhirendra Nath Misra>  > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> @gro ups.com> Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM> Re: What is the correct birth time?> >  > Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half

an hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark. Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before I pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect. > > Bhaskar.> > @gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> wrote:> >> > Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot

in society, and you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?> > > > Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested ? Good.> > > > Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical checking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, we must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love

marriage or not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ? Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?> > > > Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia to predict ? > > > > If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of astrology are we into ?> > > > And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think whatever you predict will be right ?> > > > Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one. He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper. > > > > Bhaskar.>

> > > > > > > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh" <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > >> > > Dear Punitji> > > > > > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual time of first cry.> > > > > > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> > > > > > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> > > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> > > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A > > > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> > > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> > > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orb with C>

> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> > > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> > > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with specified orb)> > > > > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > Suprakash> > > > > > > > > - > > > Punit Pandey > > > @gro ups.com > > > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> > > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > > > > > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you want to do it?> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your suggestions incorporated. > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Punit ji> > > > > > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the basic conditions assumed during the test.> > > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating

is not all.Have all the charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way? > > > > > > If not, then the test has no relevance.> > > > > > Regards> > > > > > Suprakash> > > > > > > > > - > > > Punit Pandey > > > @gro ups.com > > > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> > > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Suresh ji,> > > > > > Please see your post

(http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047). I quote -> > > > > > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical."> > > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel."> > > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising."> > > > > > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is the reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts. Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following them

"blindly" which also means following incorrect methods. > > > > > > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win. > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM,

suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > Dear Punitji,> > > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post. > > > Suresh Hattangadi> > >> >>

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Dear friends

Please answer or ask anything but the link must be remained the same.

In this context, I request all friends who are giving posts in this forum, without opening new file, please continue to the current file of the original post it will help all others to understand the basic theme of the subject.

At last, every astrologer has his own views regarding ruling planets as well as rectification of birth time and they will be confined with him only. If the same will be tried by others, time rectified will not be matched because of use of different views.

I request all members to go through every method and try them and apply any of them to get correct rectified time of birth and then check the past events in the light of transit and if possible DBAs. This will give you the correctness as compared with others.

With regards

Vijayanand Patil, President, Astrovision, Kolhapur

Cell No. +91 9673746303/+919422582853

email : guide_vijayanand

On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:53:30 +0530 wrote

>

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh

wrote:

> > > Dear Punitji,

> > > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously

not read full comment where I have said you can test this method for

results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji,

s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question

value of his experience.My only point is research done in so many

directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will

be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident if you

have read subsequent post.

> > > Suresh Hattangadi

> > >

> >

>

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Dear Punit Ji,Lajmi Ji,Bhaskar Ji,VGR Pavan Ji ,TW Ji, & others, Thanks for reply.Sir,Does there not apply any K.P rule or which of the following rule does apply in charts / birth data sent by me. I am forwarding cell No. of my Bhabhi Ji( Dr.Jay sri.) who is running her own hospital / Maternity center at Mukhani,Haldwani. Bhaskar Ji and VGR Ji wants to collect more birth particulars of new born babies.Bhaskar Ji may note down that babies generally take 10 seconds time between first breath and then cry.Umblical chord is generally cut after 2 minutes of first cry.But it is not a rule.There is no relation between these two things.Umblical chord is cut when the whole body of the baby comes out.My bhabhi Ji told me that she generally writes down time of coming out of head of babies or of first cry.For collecting more information please Bhaskar Ji,VGR Pavan Ji,Or any other member may contact sincerely on cell No. 09837053494

,9837053494.Please you may contact between 6:30PM to 7:00PM.

Method 8 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham

The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant, if the Ascendant is correct.Reference: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.

Method 9 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham

The Sun, Jupiter and Venus, alone, are the three planets mainly responsible for human births...i) Sun is the Athma Karaka-chief sigificator of the soul...ii) Jupiter is Putrakaraka-chief significator for childbirth...iii)Venus is Kamakaraka-chief significator for sexual pleasure... It has been observed by the late M.P.Shanmugham, that Sun or Jupiter or Venus, are always found as the starlord or sublord of the IXth cusp. Thus emerges the method, that if the IXth sublord is found to be under the said circumstances(sic), the horoscope cast is

correct...to the minute... !Reference: /message/22262

[1] Male baby (Suyash)

DOB-06th April,1998

TOB-Recorded Time- 10:12AM[Recorded time of first cry]

POB-Haldwani, District- Nainital

Latitude-29N13

Longitude-79E31

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Asc-Sub lord= Moon sub lord=Venus

Asc sub sub lord =Moon star lord=Mercury

 

Other Birth Particulars,

 

[2]Daughter was born in hospital- Time of first cry was recorded

DOB-24th June,1995

TOB-10:56PM

POB-Basti,U. P

Latitude-26N48

Longitude 82E44

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Sun

Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub = Saturn

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

 

[3]My own

DOB-20th April,1959

TOB-08:15AM( Recorded Time) as noted in Janm Patri,Rectified by me as 08:15:56 AM for K.P Ayanamsa only.I think at that time watch was either slow by 56 seconds or watch had not hand showing time up to second.

POB-Basti,U. P,India.

Latitude-26N48

Longitude-82E44

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord = Venus

Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord =Saturn

 

[4]Female,National Institute of Health,Washington D.C

DOB-20.09.1977

POB-Mumbai

TOB-08:30:50AM

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Ketu

Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub =Venus

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

 

[5] K.S.Krishnamurty Ji

DOB-01-11-1908

TOB-12:07:30PM

POB-Thiruvayuru

Asc sub lord =Moon star lord=Moon

Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord = Mars

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

 

Does there any rule apply? Does recorded birth time of first cry reveal any rule or on what basis you can deny this time.More recorded time of first cry may be collected,if required for study.

With thanks & regards,

Dhirendra Nath Misra

 

 

 

 

 

vgr pavan <vgr_pavan1dhirendranathmisraSent: Thu, December 31, 2009 6:52:15 AMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

Mishraji Pranam,I am interested to collect more birth profiles , If you can give me your "bhabhijis" contact details.thanks ,.....Peace and Prosperity to All !!VGR--- On Wed, 30/12/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra wrote:

Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisraRe: Re: What is the correct birth time? Date: Wednesday, 30 December, 2009, 1:18 PM

 

 

 

 

Dear Lazmi Ji,D.Senthil Ji,Punit Ji,Bhaskar Ji,Kalyan Ji,Tw Ji ,Dr.Rath Ji & other senior members,

I am fowarding birth particulars of my son recorded by my Bhabhi (Dr.Jay Sri) Ji who is a medical doctor and runs her own maternity center in Haldwani,District- Nainital at Mukhani.She records time of first cry of child as correct birth time.Thousands of birth time of first cry of babies may be collected from there.I may provide her cell No. if required to collect birth data of first cry.

Birth particular of my own son is as under:

[1] Male baby (Suyash)

DOB-06th April,1998

TOB-Recorded Time- 10:12AM[Recorded time of first cry]

POB-Haldwani, District- Nainital

Latitude-29N13

Longitude-79E31

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Asc-Sub lord= Moon sub lord=Venus

Asc sub sub lord =Moon star lord=Mercury

 

Other Birth Particulars,

 

[2]Daughter was born in hospital- Time of first cry was recorded

DOB-24th June,1995

TOB-10:56PM

POB-Basti,U. P

Latitude-26N48

Longitude 82E44

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Sun

Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub = Saturn

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

 

[3]My own

DOB-20th April,1959

TOB-08:15AM( Recorded Time) as noted in Janm Patri,Rectified by me as 08:15:56 AM for K.P Ayanamsa only.I think at that time watch was either slow by 56 seconds or watch had not hand showing time up to second.

POB-Basti,U. P,India.

Latitude-26N48

Longitude-82E44

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord = Venus

Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord =Saturn

 

[4]Female,National Institute of Health,Washington D.C

DOB-20.09.1977

POB-Mumbai

TOB-08:30:50AM

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Ketu

Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub =Venus

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

 

[5] K.S.Krishnamurty Ji

DOB-01-11-1908

TOB-12:07:30PM

POB-Thiruvayuru

Asc sub lord =Moon star lord=Moon

Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord = Mars

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

 

Does there any rule apply? Does recorded birth time of first cry reveal any rule or on what basis you can deny this time.More recorded time of first cry may be collected,if required for study.

Dhirendra Nath Misra

 

 

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>@gro ups.comTue, December 29, 2009 10:46:39 PM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Dear Mishra ji,Logic or not, is a seperate matter, but - Where do we get this rule inmost cases ???regards/Bhaskar.@gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra<dhirendranathmisra wrote:>> Dear D.Senthil Sir,>              Â             Â       // "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"> Â> Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂthe above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONGONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂsaying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply aUSLESS RULE ONLY. //> Â>              Â             Canyou once again shed

some light on the above as to why we get in mostof the cases "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub =Natal MOON Sub" even if there is no logic.Certainly in few cases theabove condition does not apply and necessity arose to find outÂperfect rule beyond doubt.> With thanks & regards,Â> Dhirendra Nath Misra> Â>>>>> ____________ _________ _________ __> Senthil athi_ram @gro ups.com> Tue, December 29, 2009 5:59:23 AM> Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?>> Â> Dear Members,>> The RULE,> Â> "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"> Â> Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂthe above rule for few seconds or few minutes

all are WRONGONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂsaying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply aUSLESS RULE ONLY.> Â> GOOD LUCK!!>>> D.Senthil>>>> --- On Mon, 12/28/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @ymail.com> wrote:>>> >Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @ ymail.com>> >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?> >@gro ups.com> >Monday, December 28, 2009, 6:54 AM> >> >> >Â> >Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shiftingrecorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3minutes) only we can

apply the above rule.Besides this thedifferent astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birthtime further for different ayanamsas.> >With thanks & regards,Â> >Dhirendra Nath Misra> >Â> >> >> >> >> >> ____________ _________ _________ __> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>> >@gro ups.com> >Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >Â> >Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. Buttrying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half anhour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist whohas come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will

lookat us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not readyto listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark.Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that thenatives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recordingof the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before Ipronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwiseI would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moonis not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift thetime to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect.> >> >Bhaskar.> >> >@gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>wrote:> >>> >> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, andyou will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?>

>>> >> Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then notethe time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the deliveryroom ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested? Good.> >>> >> Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods andsuch topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time ofBirth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? Andwhat is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going togo about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physicalchecking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, wemust ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated andbecome pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we mustcheck for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage ornot- every evening go

where she goes, whom she meets, how much love isthere between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ?Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?> >>> >> Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Whycant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnaliato predict ?> >>> >> If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will beable to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type ofastrology are we into ?> >>> >> And after having known the time of the first cry, do You thinkwhatever you predict will be right ?> >>> >> Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one.He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his powerof discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.> >>>

>> Bhaskar.> >>> >>> >>> >> @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh"<suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> >> >> >> > Dear Punitji> >> >> >> > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connectionwith nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actualtime of first cry.> >> >> >> > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> >> >> >> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> >> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> >> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A> >> > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> >> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> >> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a

thirdplanet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentionedorb with C> >> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> >> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> >> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,withspecified orb)> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Regards> >> >> >> > Suprakash> >> >> >> >> >> > -> >> > Punit Pandey> >> > @gro ups.com> >> > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Suprakash ji,> >> >>

>> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have anyalternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please letus know how you want to do it?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc andMoon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we havethis definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moonconnection method with your suggestions incorporated.> >> >> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> >> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh<suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Punit ji>

>> >> >> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let usknow the basic conditions assumed during the test.> >> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What wasthe genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all thecharts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What Imean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connectionapparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they haveexchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed inthis way?> >> >> >> > If not, then the test has no relevance.> >> >> >> > Regards> >> >> >> > Suprakash> >> >> >> >> >> > -> >> > Punit Pandey> >> > To:

@gro ups.com> >> > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Suresh ji,> >> >> >> > Please see your post (http://groups. / group//message/ 30047). I quote -> >> >> >> > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji ispracticable as well as logical."> >> > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is likere-inventing the wheel."> >> > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method asbest suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insistfurther research on the subject is surprising."> >>

>> >> > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" andthe study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the filesection and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercelybut what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That isthe reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommendfollowing them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods.> >> >> >> > What we are doing is not further research but merely verificationof available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a longtime, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. Itmay not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely ininterest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process andparticipating in it, I wounder

why people are trying to divert attentionand making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale andwe all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of thisexercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally theKP will win.> >> >> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> >> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@>wrote:> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Punitji,> >> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You haveobviously not read full comment where I have said you can test thismethod for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a rawnerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seemto question

value of his experience.My only point is research done in somany directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of datawill be interpreted differently by different people as will be evidentif you have read subsequent post.> >> > Suresh Hattangadi> >> >> >>> >> >> >>

 

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Dear Friends,

This non-RP based rule is nothing to do with the RP-based BTR recommending

Pre-Natal Approach articles by late K.M. Subramaniam and his nephew Vikarai

Ramamurthy.

/message/30250?threaded=1

/message/30276

Regards,

TW

 

, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar,

>                      The Time of Epoch,or the exact

time when the human egg is fertilised is approximately 273 days before the

TOB...in most cases of normal deliveries...

>                      Ms. Linda Goodman, in her excellent

Book,  " Love Signs " , has written an article captioned

> " A Time to Embrace " ...in which she has said that ancient Kings were advised

by their astrologers ,

> shamans etc.,that the best time for the Queen to conceive was during the few

hours when the Sun and Moon,are exactly at the same number of degrees apart,as

they were at the Time of her birth.

>                      It was later found by KSK and

researched upon by K.P. Scholars,that the Ruling Planets

> at the fertilisation (of the human egg,by the human sperm),were the very same

at theTime of Birth (and also of one's death,too !)...in around over 60 % of

cases...

>                      Further research showed that at the

EXACT Time Of Birth,the Ascendant sublord should the same or is in the same

star of the Moon's Star-lord...(which can be extended to,depending upon the SW

one is using to... Ascendant's sub lord and sub-sub-lord which should appear as

the starlord and sub-lord of the Moon.)

>                      This is the background for what is

said by the late Shri M.P.Shanmugham in his very illuminating book...and perhaps

what Mr.Dhirendranath was trying to say...

>                       With kind regards,

>                       Yogesh Lajmi

>                     

>                  

>                      

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish

>

> Tue, 29 December, 2009 10:46:39 PM

> Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

>  

>

> Dear Mishra ji,

>

> Logic or not, is a seperate matter, but - Where do we get this rule in

> most cases ???

>

> regards/Bhaskar.

>

> @gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra

> <dhirendranathmisra wrote:

> >

> > Dear D.Senthil Sir,

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â // " Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star &

> Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub "

> > Â

> > Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂ

> the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG

> ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂ

> saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a

> USLESS RULE ONLY. //

> > Â

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Can

> you once again shed some light on the above as to why we get in most

> of the cases " Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub =

> Natal MOON Sub " even if there is no logic.Certainly in few cases the

> above condition does not apply and necessity arose to find outÂ

> perfect rule beyond doubt.

> > With thanks & regards,Â

> > Dhirendra Nath Misra

> > Â

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Senthil athi_ram@

> > @gro ups.com

> > Tue, December 29, 2009 5:59:23 AM

> > Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >

> > Â

> > Dear Members,

> >

> > The RULE,

> > Â

> > " Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub "

> > Â

> > Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂ

> the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG

> ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂ

> saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a

> USLESS RULE ONLY.

> > Â

> > GOOD LUCK!!

> >

> >

> > D.Senthil

> >

> >

> >

> > --- On Mon, 12/28/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @

> ymail.com> wrote:

> >

> >

> > >Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @ ymail.com>

> > >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > >@gro ups.com

> > >Monday, December 28, 2009, 6:54 AM

> > >

> > >

> > >Â

> > >Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting

> recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3

> minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the

> different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth

> time further for different ayanamsas.

> > >With thanks & regards,Â

> > >Dhirendra Nath Misra

> > >Â

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>

> > >@gro ups.com

> > >Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM

> > > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > >

> > >Â

> > >Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But

> trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an

> hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who

> has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look

> at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready

> to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark.

> Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the

> natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording

> of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before I

> pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise

> I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon

> is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the

> time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect.

> > >

> > >Bhaskar.

> > >

> > >@gro ups.com, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>

> wrote:

> > >>

> > >> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and

> you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?

> > >>

> > >> Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note

> the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery

> room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested

> ? Good.

> > >>

> > >> Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and

> such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of

> Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And

> what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to

> go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical

> checking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, we

> must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and

> become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must

> check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or

> not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is

> there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ?

> Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?

> > >>

> > >> Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why

> cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia

> to predict ?

> > >>

> > >> If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be

> able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of

> astrology are we into ?

> > >>

> > >> And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think

> whatever you predict will be right ?

> > >>

> > >> Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one.

> He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power

> of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.

> > >>

> > >> Bhaskar.

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> @gro ups.com, " Suprakash Ghosh "

> <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:

> > >> >

> > >> > Dear Punitji

> > >> >

> > >> > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection

> with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual

> time of first cry.

> > >> >

> > >> > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :

> > >> >

> > >> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A

> > >> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A

> > >> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A

> > >> > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa

> > >> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)

> > >> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third

> planet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned

> orb with C

> > >> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)

> > >> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)

> > >> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with

> specified orb)

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > Regards

> > >> >

> > >> > Suprakash

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > -

> > >> > Punit Pandey

> > >> > @gro ups.com

> > >> > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM

> > >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > Dear Suprakash ji,

> > >> >

> > >> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any

> alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let

> us know how you want to do it?

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and

> Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have

> this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon

> connection method with your suggestions incorporated.

> > >> >

> > >> > Thanks & Regards,

> > >> >

> > >> > Punit Pandey

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh

> <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > Dear Punit ji

> > >> >

> > >> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us

> know the basic conditions assumed during the test.

> > >> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was

> the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the

> charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I

> mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection

> apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have

> exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in

> this way?

> > >> >

> > >> > If not, then the test has no relevance.

> > >> >

> > >> > Regards

> > >> >

> > >> > Suprakash

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > -

> > >> > Punit Pandey

> > >> > @gro ups.com

> > >> > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM

> > >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > Dear Suresh ji,

> > >> >

> > >> > Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_

> system/message/ 30047). I quote -

> > >> >

> > >> > 1. " In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is

> practicable as well as logical. "

> > >> > 2. " Suggesting further research in this matter is like

> re-inventing the wheel. "

> > >> > 3. " When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as

> best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist

> further research on the subject is surprising. "

> > >> >

> > >> > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method " most often " and

> the study found that the method doesn't work.. Please see the file

> section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely

> but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is

> the reason I say that we should not " blindly " follow even Stalwarts.

> Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend

> following them " blindly " which also means following incorrect methods.

> > >> >

> > >> > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification

> of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long

> time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It

> may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in

> interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and

> participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention

> and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and

> we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this

> exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the

> KP will win.

> > >> >

> > >> > Thanks & Regards,

> > >> >

> > >> > Punit Pandey

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@>

> wrote:

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > Dear Punitji,

> > >> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have

> obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this

> method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw

> nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem

> to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so

> many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data

> will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident

> if you have read subsequent post.

> > >> > Suresh Hattangadi

> > >> >

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> > >

>

______________________________\

__

> See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now:

http://au.movies./session-times/

>

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Dear Dhirendra Nath Misra,1. You're advised not to make confusion with our Guruji K.S.K's TOB in this KP group, by adjusting as you like to 12:07:30PM from 12:11 PM, in order to fit with this rule.5] K.S.Krishnamurty Ji> DOB-01-11-1908> TOB-12:07:30PMAsc

Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub, Pass (P)

or Fail (F)?

(as per KP charts using KPNA by KPAstro 3.5)

 

 

 

Sn

 

 

Name

 

 

Asc/ Mo

 

 

Sgl-Stl-Sbl-Ssl

 

 

1st

 

 

2nd

 

 

 

 

1

 

 

KS

Krishnamurti

 

 

Asc:

Cp 10-59-59

 

 

Sa-Mo-Mo-Ve

 

 

P

 

 

F

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mo:

Cp 11-50-59

 

 

Sa-Mo-Ma-Mo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Note: for TOB 12:11 PM, 01-11-1908, 10n48, 79e15, KPNA 22:29:39Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule.doc (in File section)Explanation of the Test Results 2. If this rule is so correct as you're saying, could you kindly provide any chart, for which this rule is correct, in the whole 'published' astrological literature (Western, Eastern KP, Vedic in English, etc)? Thanks and regards,TW , Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra wrote:>> Dear Lazmi Ji,D.Senthil Ji,Punit Ji,Bhaskar Ji,Kalyan Ji,Tw Ji ,Dr.Rath Ji & other senior members,> > I am fowarding birth particulars of my son recorded by my Bhabhi (Dr.Jay Sri) Ji who is a medical doctor and runs her own maternity center in Haldwani,District- Nainital at Mukhani.She records time of first cry of child as correct birth time.Thousands of birth time of first cry of babies may be collected from there.I may provide her cell No. if required to collect birth data of first cry. > Birth particular of my own son is as under:> [1] Male baby (Suyash)> DOB-06th April,1998> TOB-Recorded Time- 10:12AM[Recorded time of first cry]> POB-Haldwani, District- Nainital> Latitude-29N13> Longitude-79E31> K.P Ayanamsa adopted> Asc-Sub lord= Moon sub lord=Venus> Asc sub sub lord =Moon star lord=Mercury> > Other Birth Particulars,> > [2]Daughter was born in hospital- Time of first cry was recorded> DOB-24th June,1995> TOB-10:56PM> POB-Basti,U. P> Latitude-26N48> Longitude 82E44> Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Sun> Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub = Saturn> K.P Ayanamsa adopted>  > [3]My own> DOB-20th April,1959> TOB-08:15AM( Recorded Time) as noted in Janm Patri,Rectified by me as 08:15:56 AM for K.P Ayanamsa only.I think at that time watch was either slow by 56 seconds or watch had not hand showing time up to second.> POB-Basti,U. P,India.> Latitude-26N48> Longitude-82E44> K.P Ayanamsa adopted> Asc sub lord=Moon star lord = Venus> Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord =Saturn> > [4]Female,National Institute of Health,Washington D.C> DOB-20.09.1977> POB-Mumbai> TOB-08:30:50AM> Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Ketu> Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub =Venus> K.P Ayanamsa adopted>  > [5] K.S.Krishnamurty Ji> DOB-01-11-1908> TOB-12:07:30PM> POB-Thiruvayuru> Asc sub lord =Moon star lord=Moon> Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord = Mars> K.P Ayanamsa adopted>  >  Does there any rule apply? Does recorded birth time of first cry reveal any rule or on what basis you can deny this time.More recorded time of first cry may be collected,if required for study. > Dhirendra Nath Misra>  > > > > > ________________________________> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish > Tue, December 29, 2009 10:46:39 PM> Re: What is the correct birth time?> >  > > Dear Mishra ji,> > Logic or not, is a seperate matter, but - Where do we get this rule in> most cases ???> > regards/Bhaskar.> > @gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra> <dhirendranathmisra wrote:> >> > Dear D.Senthil Sir,> >              Â>              Â>        // "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & > Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"> > Â> > Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂ> the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG> ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂ> saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a> USLESS RULE ONLY. //> > Â> >              Â>              Can> you once again shed some light on the above as to why we get in most> of the cases "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub => Natal MOON Sub" even if there is no logic.Certainly in few cases the> above condition does not apply and necessity arose to find outÂ> perfect rule beyond doubt.> > With thanks & regards,Â> > Dhirendra Nath Misra> > Â> >> >> >> >> > ____________ _________ _________ __> > Senthil athi_ram@> > @gro ups.com> > Tue, December 29, 2009 5:59:23 AM> > Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> > Â> > Dear Members,> >> > The RULE,> > Â> > "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"> > Â> > Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂ> the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG> ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂ> saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a> USLESS RULE ONLY.> > Â> > GOOD LUCK!!> >> >> > D.Senthil> >> >> >> > --- On Mon, 12/28/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @> ymail.com> wrote:> >> >> > >Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @ ymail.com>> > >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?> > >@gro ups.com> > >Monday, December 28, 2009, 6:54 AM> > >> > >> > >Â> > >Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting> recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3> minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the> different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth> time further for different ayanamsas.> > >With thanks & regards,Â> > >Dhirendra Nath Misra> > >Â> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ____________ _________ _________ __> > Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>> > >@gro ups.com> > >Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM> > > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > >> > >Â> > >Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But> trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an> hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who> has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look> at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready> to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark.> Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the> natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording> of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before I> pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise> I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon> is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the> time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect.> > >> > >Bhaskar.> > >> > >@gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>> wrote:> > >>> > >> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and> you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?> > >>> > >> Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note> the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery> room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested> ? Good.> > >>> > >> Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and> such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of> Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And> what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to> go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical> checking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, we> must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and> become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must> check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or> not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is> there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ?> Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?> > >>> > >> Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why> cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia> to predict ?> > >>> > >> If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be> able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of> astrology are we into ?> > >>> > >> And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think> whatever you predict will be right ?> > >>> > >> Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one.> He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power> of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.> > >>> > >> Bhaskar.> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh"> <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > >> >> > >> > Dear Punitji> > >> >> > >> > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection> with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual> time of first cry.> > >> >> > >> > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> > >> >> > >> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> > >> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> > >> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A> > >> > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> > >> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> > >> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third> planet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned> orb with C> > >> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> > >> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> > >> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with> specified orb)> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > Regards> > >> >> > >> > Suprakash> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > -> > >> > Punit Pandey> > >> > @gro ups.com> > >> > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> > >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > Dear Suprakash ji,> > >> >> > >> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any> alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let> us know how you want to do it?> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and> Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have> this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon> connection method with your suggestions incorporated.> > >> >> > >> > Thanks & Regards,> > >> >> > >> > Punit Pandey> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh> <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > Dear Punit ji> > >> >> > >> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us> know the basic conditions assumed during the test.> > >> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was> the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the> charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I> mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection> apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have> exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in> this way?> > >> >> > >> > If not, then the test has no relevance.> > >> >> > >> > Regards> > >> >> > >> > Suprakash> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > -> > >> > Punit Pandey> > >> > @gro ups.com> > >> > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> > >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > Dear Suresh ji,> > >> >> > >> > Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_> system/message/ 30047). I quote -> > >> >> > >> > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is> practicable as well as logical."> > >> > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like> re-inventing the wheel."> > >> > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as> best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist> further research on the subject is surprising."> > >> >> > >> > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and> the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file> section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely> but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is> the reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.> Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend> following them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods.> > >> >> > >> > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification> of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long> time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It> may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in> interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and> participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention> and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and> we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this> exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the> KP will win.> > >> >> > >> > Thanks & Regards,> > >> >> > >> > Punit Pandey> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@>> wrote:> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > Dear Punitji,> > >> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have> obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this> method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw> nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem> to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so> many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data> will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident> if you have read subsequent post.> > >> > Suresh Hattangadi> > >> >> > >>> > >> > >> > >> >>

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Dear Friends,

How is this rule useless without being correct for any chart in the publised

astrological literature?

Regards,

TW

 

 

, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra

wrote:

>

> Bhaskar Ji ,Tw Ji & others

> We get this rule from-

> Method 8 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham

> The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord

of the Ascendant, if the Ascendant is correct.

> Reference: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by

Mr.K.Subramaniam 

> With thanks & regards,

> Dhirendra Nath Misra

>  

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi

>

> Cc: Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish

> Wed, December 30, 2009 9:50:34 PM

> Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

>  

> Dear Bhaskar,

>                      The Time of Epoch,or the exact

time when the human egg is fertilised is approximately 273 days before the

TOB....in most cases of normal deliveries.. .

>                      Ms. Linda Goodman, in her excellent

Book,  " Love Signs " , has written an article captioned

> " A Time to Embrace " ...in which she has said that ancient Kings were advised

by their astrologers ,

> shamans etc.,that the best time for the Queen to conceive was during the few

hours when the Sun and Moon,are exactly at the same number of degrees apart,as

they were at the Time of her birth.

>                      It was later found by KSK and

researched upon by K.P. Scholars,that the Ruling Planets

> at the fertilisation (of the human egg,by the human sperm),were the very same

at theTime of Birth (and also of one's death,too !)...in around over 60 % of

cases...

>                      Further research showed that at the

EXACT Time Of Birth,the Ascendant sublord should the same or is in the same

star of the Moon's Star-lord...(which can be extended to,depending upon the SW

one is using to... Ascendant's sub lord and sub-sub-lord which should appear as

the starlord and sub-lord of the Moon.)

>                      This is the background for what is

said by the late Shri M.P.Shanmugham in his very illuminating book...and perhaps

what Mr.Dhirendranath was trying to say...

>                       With kind regards,

>                       Yogesh Lajmi

>                     

>                  

>                      

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>

> @gro ups.com

> Tue, 29 December, 2009 10:46:39 PM

> Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

>  

>

> Dear Mishra ji,

>

> Logic or not, is a seperate matter, but - Where do we get this rule in

> most cases ???

>

> regards/Bhaskar.

>

> @gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra

> <dhirendranathmisra wrote:

> >

> > Dear D.Senthil Sir,

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â // " Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star &

> Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub "

> > Â

> > Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂ

> the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG

> ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂ

> saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a

> USLESS RULE ONLY. //

> > Â

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Can

> you once again shed some light on the above as to why we get in most

> of the cases " Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub =

> Natal MOON Sub " even if there is no logic.Certainly in few cases the

> above condition does not apply and necessity arose to find outÂ

> perfect rule beyond doubt.

> > With thanks & regards,Â

> > Dhirendra Nath Misra

> > Â

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Senthil athi_ram@

> > @gro ups.com

> > Tue, December 29, 2009 5:59:23 AM

> > Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >

> > Â

> > Dear Members,

> >

> > The RULE,

> > Â

> > " Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub "

> > Â

> > Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂ

> the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG

> ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂ

> saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a

> USLESS RULE ONLY.

> > Â

> > GOOD LUCK!!

> >

> >

> > D.Senthil

> >

> >

> >

> > --- On Mon, 12/28/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @

> ymail.com> wrote:

> >

> >

> > >Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @ ymail.com>

> > >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > >@gro ups.com

> > >Monday, December 28, 2009, 6:54 AM

> > >

> > >

> > >Â

> > >Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting

> recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3

> minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the

> different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth

> time further for different ayanamsas.

> > >With thanks & regards,Â

> > >Dhirendra Nath Misra

> > >Â

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>

> > >@gro ups.com

> > >Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM

> > > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > >

> > >Â

> > >Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But

> trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an

> hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who

> has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look

> at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready

> to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark.

> Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the

> natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording

> of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before I

> pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise

> I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon

> is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the

> time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect.

> > >

> > >Bhaskar.

> > >

> > >@gro ups.com, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>

> wrote:

> > >>

> > >> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and

> you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?

> > >>

> > >> Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note

> the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery

> room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested

> ? Good..

> > >>

> > >> Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and

> such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of

> Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And

> what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to

> go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical

> checking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, we

> must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and

> become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must

> check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or

> not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is

> there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ?

> Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?

> > >>

> > >> Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why

> cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia

> to predict ?

> > >>

> > >> If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be

> able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of

> astrology are we into ?

> > >>

> > >> And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think

> whatever you predict will be right ?

> > >>

> > >> Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one.

> He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power

> of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.

> > >>

> > >> Bhaskar.

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> @gro ups.com, " Suprakash Ghosh "

> <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:

> > >> >

> > >> > Dear Punitji

> > >> >

> > >> > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection

> with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual

> time of first cry.

> > >> >

> > >> > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :

> > >> >

> > >> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A

> > >> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A

> > >> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A

> > >> > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa

> > >> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)

> > >> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third

> planet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned

> orb with C

> > >> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)

> > >> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)

> > >> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with

> specified orb)

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > Regards

> > >> >

> > >> > Suprakash

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > -

> > >> > Punit Pandey

> > >> > @gro ups.com

> > >> > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM

> > >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > Dear Suprakash ji,

> > >> >

> > >> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any

> alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let

> us know how you want to do it?

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and

> Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have

> this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon

> connection method with your suggestions incorporated.

> > >> >

> > >> > Thanks & Regards,

> > >> >

> > >> > Punit Pandey

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh

> <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > Dear Punit ji

> > >> >

> > >> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us

> know the basic conditions assumed during the test.

> > >> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was

> the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the

> charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I

> mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection

> apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have

> exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in

> this way?

> > >> >

> > >> > If not, then the test has no relevance.

> > >> >

> > >> > Regards

> > >> >

> > >> > Suprakash

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > -

> > >> > Punit Pandey

> > >> > @gro ups.com

> > >> > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM

> > >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > Dear Suresh ji,

> > >> >

> > >> > Please see your post (http://groups./ / group/k_p_

> system/message/ 30047). I quote -

> > >> >

> > >> > 1. " In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is

> practicable as well as logical. "

> > >> > 2. " Suggesting further research in this matter is like

> re-inventing the wheel. "

> > >> > 3. " When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as

> best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist

> further research on the subject is surprising. "

> > >> >

> > >> > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method " most often " and

> the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file

> section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely

> but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is

> the reason I say that we should not " blindly " follow even Stalwarts.

> Your opinion (point no.. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend

> following them " blindly " which also means following incorrect methods.

> > >> >

> > >> > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification

> of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long

> time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It

> may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in

> interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and

> participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention

> and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and

> we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this

> exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the

> KP will win.

> > >> >

> > >> > Thanks & Regards,

> > >> >

> > >> > Punit Pandey

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@>

> wrote:

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > Dear Punitji,

> > >> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have

> obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this

> method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw

> nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem

> to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so

> many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data

> will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident

> if you have read subsequent post.

> > >> > Suresh Hattangadi

> > >> >

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

> ________________________________

> See what's on at the movies in your area.. Find out now.

>

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Dear TW Ji, I was given this Correct / incorrect birth time of revered Guruji by any member of this group.Revered Late Sri KSK Ji is not only your guruji.Every reported birth time needs correction to fit in any perfect formula because all the lady doctors / nurses generally record the time of comming out of head of babies and RECORDING OF TIME OF FIRST BREATHING IS IMPOSSIBLE WHICH IS CORRECT BIRTH TIME BEYOND ANY DOUBT.Babies firstly start breathing and then they may cry but they do not cry in all the cases.Recording of time of cutting of umblical chord is unnecessary.Because babies starts breathing before cutting of umblical chord.Please make perfect birth time rectification rule available for all and there should be logic to rotate time clock wise or anti clock wise to get TIME.Again this TIME will not be suitable for both K.P and New K.P ayanamsas.You may kindly correct me as I am not well

adept or perfect in astrology.

With thanks & regards,

Dhirendra Nath Misra

 

 

 

 

 

TW <tw853 Sent: Thu, December 31, 2009 9:51:12 PM Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

Dear Dhirendra Nath Misra,

1. You're advised not to make confusion with our Guruji K.S.K's TOB in this KP group, by adjusting as you like to 12:07:30PM from 12:11 PM, in order to fit with this rule.

5] K.S.Krishnamurty Ji> DOB-01-11-1908> TOB-12:07:30PM

Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub, Pass (P) or Fail (F)?

(as per KP charts using KPNA by KPAstro 3.5)

 

 

 

 

Sn

 

Name

 

Asc/ Mo

 

Sgl-Stl-Sbl- Ssl

 

1st

 

2nd

 

 

1

 

KS Krishnamurti

 

Asc: Cp 10-59-59

 

Sa-Mo-Mo-Ve

 

P

 

F

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mo: Cp 11-50-59

 

Sa-Mo-Ma-Mo

 

 

 

Note: for TOB 12:11 PM, 01-11-1908, 10n48, 79e15, KPNA 22:29:39Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule.doc (in File section)Explanation of the Test Results 2. If this rule is so correct as you're saying, could you kindly provide any chart, for which this rule is correct, in the whole 'published' astrological literature (Western, Eastern KP, Vedic in English, etc)? Thanks and regards,TW@gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ...> wrote:>> Dear

Lazmi Ji,D.Senthil Ji,Punit Ji,Bhaskar Ji,Kalyan Ji,Tw Ji ,Dr.Rath Ji & other senior members,> > I am fowarding birth particulars of my son recorded by my Bhabhi (Dr.Jay Sri) Ji who is a medical doctor and runs her own maternity center in Haldwani,District- Nainital at Mukhani.She records time of first cry of child as correct birth time.Thousands of birth time of first cry of babies may be collected from there.I may provide her cell No. if required to collect birth data of first cry. > Birth particular of my own son is as under:> [1] Male baby (Suyash)> DOB-06th April,1998> TOB-Recorded Time- 10:12AM[Recorded time of first cry]> POB-Haldwani, District- Nainital> Latitude-29N13> Longitude-79E31> K.P Ayanamsa adopted> Asc-Sub lord= Moon sub lord=Venus> Asc sub sub lord =Moon star lord=Mercury> > Other Birth Particulars,>

> [2]Daughter was born in hospital- Time of first cry was recorded> DOB-24th June,1995> TOB-10:56PM> POB-Basti,U. P> Latitude-26N48> Longitude 82E44> Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Sun> Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub = Saturn> K.P Ayanamsa adopted> Â > [3]My own> DOB-20th April,1959> TOB-08:15AM( Recorded Time) as noted in Janm Patri,Rectified by me as 08:15:56 AM for K.P Ayanamsa only.I think at that time watch was either slow by 56 seconds or watch had not hand showing time up to second.> POB-Basti,U. P,India.> Latitude-26N48> Longitude-82E44> K.P Ayanamsa adopted> Asc sub lord=Moon star lord = Venus> Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord =Saturn> > [4]Female,National Institute of Health,Washington D.C> DOB-20.09.1977> POB-Mumbai> TOB-08:30:50AM> Asc sub lord=Moon star

lord=Ketu> Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub =Venus> K.P Ayanamsa adopted>  > [5] K.S.Krishnamurty Ji> DOB-01-11-1908> TOB-12:07:30PM> POB-Thiruvayuru> Asc sub lord =Moon star lord=Moon> Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord = Mars> K.P Ayanamsa adopted>  >  Does there any rule apply? Does recorded birth time of first cry reveal any rule or on what basis you can deny this time.More recorded time of first cry may be collected,if required for study. > Dhirendra Nath Misra>  > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> @gro ups.com> Tue, December 29, 2009 10:46:39 PM> Re: What is the correct birth time?> >  > > Dear Mishra ji,> > Logic or not,

is a seperate matter, but - Where do we get this rule in> most cases ???> > regards/Bhaskar.> > @gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra> <dhirendranathmisra wrote:> >> > Dear D.Senthil Sir,> >              Â>              Â>        // "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & > Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"> > Â> > Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂ> the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG> ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂ> saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply

a> USLESS RULE ONLY. //> > Â> >              Â>              Can> you once again shed some light on the above as to why we get in most> of the cases "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub => Natal MOON Sub" even if there is no logic.Certainly in few cases the> above condition does not apply and necessity arose to find outÂ> perfect rule beyond doubt.> > With thanks & regards,Â> > Dhirendra Nath Misra> > Â> >> >> >> >> > ____________ _________ _________ __> > Senthil athi_ram@> > @gro ups.com> > Tue, December 29, 2009 5:59:23 AM> > Re:

Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> > Â> > Dear Members,> >> > The RULE,> > Â> > "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"> > Â> > Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂ> the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG> ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂ> saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a> USLESS RULE ONLY.> > Â> > GOOD LUCK!!> >> >> > D.Senthil> >> >> >> > --- On Mon, 12/28/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @> ymail.com> wrote:> >> >> > >

Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @ ymail.com>> > >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?> > >@gro ups.com> > >Monday, December 28, 2009, 6:54 AM> > >> > >> > >Â> > >Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting> recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3> minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the> different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth> time further for different ayanamsas.> > >With thanks & regards,Â> > >Dhirendra Nath Misra> > >Â> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ____________ _________ _________ __> > Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>> > >@gro ups.com> > >Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM> > > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > >> > >Â> > >Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But> trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an> hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who> has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look> at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready> to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark.> Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the> natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording> of the birth time of this native who

had come to me. Thank God before I> pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise> I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon> is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the> time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect.> > >> > >Bhaskar.> > >> > >@gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>> wrote:> > >>> > >> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and> you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?> > >>> > >> Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note> the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery> room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested> ?

Good.> > >>> > >> Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and> such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of> Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And> what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to> go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical> checking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, we> must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and> become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must> check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or> not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is> there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ?> Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for

?> > >>> > >> Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why> cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia> to predict ?> > >>> > >> If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be> able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of> astrology are we into ?> > >>> > >> And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think> whatever you predict will be right ?> > >>> > >> Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one.> He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power> of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.> > >>> > >> Bhaskar.> > >>> > >>> > >>>

> >> @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh"> <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > >> >> > >> > Dear Punitji> > >> >> > >> > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection> with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual> time of first cry.> > >> >> > >> > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> > >> >> > >> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> > >> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> > >> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A> > >> > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> > >> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> > >> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a

third> planet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned> orb with C> > >> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> > >> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> > >> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with> specified orb)> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > Regards> > >> >> > >> > Suprakash> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > -> > >> > Punit Pandey> > >> > @gro ups.com> > >> > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> > >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > >> >> > >> >>

> >> >> > >> >> > >> > Dear Suprakash ji,> > >> >> > >> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any> alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let> us know how you want to do it?> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and> Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have> this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon> connection method with your suggestions incorporated.> > >> >> > >> > Thanks & Regards,> > >> >> > >> > Punit Pandey> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>

> >> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh> <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > Dear Punit ji> > >> >> > >> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us> know the basic conditions assumed during the test.> > >> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was> the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the> charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I> mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection> apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have> exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in> this way?> > >> >> > >> > If not,

then the test has no relevance.> > >> >> > >> > Regards> > >> >> > >> > Suprakash> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > -> > >> > Punit Pandey> > >> > @gro ups.com> > >> > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> > >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > Dear Suresh ji,> > >> >> > >> > Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_> system/message/ 30047). I quote -> > >> >> > >> > 1. "In actual practice only method

suggested by Lajmiji is> practicable as well as logical."> > >> > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like> re-inventing the wheel."> > >> > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as> best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist> further research on the subject is surprising."> > >> >> > >> > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and> the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file> section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely> but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is> the reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.> Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend> following them "blindly" which also means

following incorrect methods.> > >> >> > >> > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification> of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long> time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It> may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in> interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and> participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention> and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and> we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this> exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the> KP will win.> > >> >> > >> > Thanks & Regards,> > >> >> > >> > Punit Pandey> >

>> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@>> wrote:> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > Dear Punitji,> > >> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have> obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this> method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw> nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem> to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so> many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data> will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident> if you have read subsequent post.> > >> > Suresh Hattangadi> > >> >> >

>>> > >> > >> > >> >>

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Dear Guruji,I wish to make attention to the last para of the Msg,http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30250?threaded= 1and Reader 3 page 281 Which says, //Note the sublord of the sixth (6th) cusp. This needs correct moment of birth.

"If it is not available", then if you want to know the sub of the sixth, you

take ruling planets at the moment when you have the urge to put the query.

Mysteriously God will help you by eliminating the previous and the next sub to

the one which you have to select//This statement for 6th Sub, does'nt make any connection with BTR and the quoted para is included in an interpretation of Disease in Reader 3. Further it says "Mysteriously God will help you by eliminating the previous and the next sub to the one which you have to select"Could you pleae make an explanation for1. How to arrive 6tth CSL thru RP?2. If one need to select Lagna Sub, how it denote the previuos and next thru above

rule?Appreciate an example on this, to show the way to BTR?With Due RegardsSuanaparanthaTW <tw853 Sent: Thu, 31 December, 2009

8:44:33 PM Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

Dear Friends,

This non-RP based rule is nothing to do with the RP-based BTR recommending Pre-Natal Approach articles by late K.M. Subramaniam and his nephew Vikarai Ramamurthy.

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30250?threaded= 1

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30276

Regards,

TW

 

@gro ups.com, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar,

>                     The Time of Epoch,or the exact time when the human egg is fertilised is approximately 273 days before the TOB...in most cases of normal deliveries.. .

>                     Ms. Linda Goodman, in her excellent Book, "Love Signs", has written an article captioned

> "A Time to Embrace"...in which she has said that ancient Kings were advised by their astrologers ,

> shamans etc.,that the best time for the Queen to conceive was during the few hours when the Sun and Moon,are exactly at the same number of degrees apart,as they were at the Time of her birth.

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â It was later found by KSK and researched upon by K.P. Scholars,that the Ruling Planets

> at the fertilisation (of the human egg,by the human sperm),were the very same at theTime of Birth (and also of one's death,too !)...in around over 60 % of cases...

>                     Further research showed that at the EXACT Time Of Birth,the Ascendant sublord should the same or is in the same star of the Moon's Star-lord... (which can be extended to,depending upon the SW one is using to... Ascendant's sub lord and sub-sub-lord which should appear as the starlord and sub-lord of the Moon.)

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â This is the background for what is said by the late Shri M.P.Shanmugham in his very illuminating book...and perhaps what Mr.Dhirendranath was trying to say...

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â With kind regards,

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Yogesh Lajmi

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

>

>

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>

> @. ..

> Tue, 29 December, 2009 10:46:39 PM

> Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

> Â

>

> Dear Mishra ji,

>

> Logic or not, is a seperate matter, but - Where do we get this rule in

> most cases ???

>

> regards/Bhaskar.

>

> @gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra

> <dhirendranathmisra wrote:

> >

> > Dear D.Senthil Sir,

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â // "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star &

> Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"

> > Â

> > Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂ

> the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG

> ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂ

> saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a

> USLESS RULE ONLY. //

> > Â

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Can

> you once again shed some light on the above as to why we get in most

> of the cases "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub =

> Natal MOON Sub" even if there is no logic.Certainly in few cases the

> above condition does not apply and necessity arose to find outÂ

> perfect rule beyond doubt.

> > With thanks & regards,Â

> > Dhirendra Nath Misra

> > Â

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Senthil athi_ram@

> > @gro ups.com

> > Tue, December 29, 2009 5:59:23 AM

> > Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >

> > Â

> > Dear Members,

> >

> > The RULE,

> > Â

> > "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"

> > Â

> > Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂ

> the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG

> ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂ

> saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a

> USLESS RULE ONLY.

> > Â

> > GOOD LUCK!!

> >

> >

> > D.Senthil

> >

> >

> >

> > --- On Mon, 12/28/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @

> ymail.com> wrote:

> >

> >

> > >Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @ ymail.com>

> > >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > >@gro ups.com

> > >Monday, December 28, 2009, 6:54 AM

> > >

> > >

> > >Â

> > >Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting

> recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3

> minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the

> different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth

> time further for different ayanamsas.

> > >With thanks & regards,Â

> > >Dhirendra Nath Misra

> > >Â

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>

> > >@gro ups.com

> > >Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM

> > > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > >

> > >Â

> > >Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But

> trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an

> hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who

> has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look

> at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready

> to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark.

> Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the

> natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording

> of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before I

> pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise

> I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon

> is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the

> time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect.

> > >

> > >Bhaskar.

> > >

> > >@gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>

> wrote:

> > >>

> > >> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and

> you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?

> > >>

> > >> Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note

> the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery

> room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested

> ? Good.

> > >>

> > >> Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and

> such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of

> Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And

> what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to

> go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical

> checking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, we

> must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and

> become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must

> check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or

> not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is

> there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ?

> Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?

> > >>

> > >> Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why

> cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia

> to predict ?

> > >>

> > >> If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be

> able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of

> astrology are we into ?

> > >>

> > >> And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think

> whatever you predict will be right ?

> > >>

> > >> Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one.

> He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power

> of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.

> > >>

> > >> Bhaskar.

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh"

> <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:

> > >> >

> > >> > Dear Punitji

> > >> >

> > >> > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection

> with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual

> time of first cry.

> > >> >

> > >> > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :

> > >> >

> > >> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A

> > >> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A

> > >> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A

> > >> > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa

> > >> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)

> > >> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third

> planet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned

> orb with C

> > >> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)

> > >> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)

> > >> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with

> specified orb)

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > Regards

> > >> >

> > >> > Suprakash

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > -

> > >> > Punit Pandey

> > >> > @gro ups.com

> > >> > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM

> > >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > Dear Suprakash ji,

> > >> >

> > >> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any

> alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let

> us know how you want to do it?

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and

> Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have

> this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon

> connection method with your suggestions incorporated.

> > >> >

> > >> > Thanks & Regards,

> > >> >

> > >> > Punit Pandey

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh

> <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > Dear Punit ji

> > >> >

> > >> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us

> know the basic conditions assumed during the test.

> > >> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was

> the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the

> charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I

> mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection

> apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have

> exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in

> this way?

> > >> >

> > >> > If not, then the test has no relevance.

> > >> >

> > >> > Regards

> > >> >

> > >> > Suprakash

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > -

> > >> > Punit Pandey

> > >> > @gro ups.com

> > >> > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM

> > >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > Dear Suresh ji,

> > >> >

> > >> > Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_

> system/message/ 30047). I quote -

> > >> >

> > >> > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is

> practicable as well as logical."

> > >> > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like

> re-inventing the wheel."

> > >> > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as

> best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist

> further research on the subject is surprising."

> > >> >

> > >> > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and

> the study found that the method doesn't work.. Please see the file

> section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely

> but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is

> the reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.

> Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend

> following them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods.

> > >> >

> > >> > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification

> of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long

> time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It

> may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in

> interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and

> participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention

> and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and

> we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this

> exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the

> KP will win.

> > >> >

> > >> > Thanks & Regards,

> > >> >

> > >> > Punit Pandey

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@>

> wrote:

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > Dear Punitji,

> > >> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have

> obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this

> method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw

> nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem

> to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so

> many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data

> will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident

> if you have read subsequent post.

> > >> > Suresh Hattangadi

> > >> >

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies. / session-times/

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Dear Dhirendranath,

The famous K.P. Rule,that the Ascendant's Sub-lord and Sub-sub-lord must appear as the Moon's Star-lord and Sub-lord respectively...

Your examples were all very correct as per K.P. Rules...(except that I did not check the American Birth...)

Wishing you the very best,

Yogesh Lajmi.

GOOD LUCK !

 

 

 

Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisraK_P_system ; vgr pavan <vgr_pavan1; yogeshlajmiSent: Thu, 31 December, 2009 7:21:55 PMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

Dear Punit Ji,Lajmi Ji,Bhaskar Ji,VGR Pavan Ji ,TW Ji, & others, Thanks for reply..Sir,Does there not apply any K.P rule or which of the following rule does apply in charts / birth data sent by me. I am forwarding cell No. of my Bhabhi Ji( Dr.Jay sri.) who is running her own hospital / Maternity center at Mukhani,Haldwani. Bhaskar Ji and VGR Ji wants to collect more birth particulars of new born babies.Bhaskar Ji may note down that babies generally take 10 seconds time between first breath and then cry.Umblical chord is generally cut after 2 minutes of first cry.But it is not a rule.There is no relation between these two things.Umblical chord is cut when the whole body of the baby comes out.My bhabhi Ji told me that she generally writes down time of coming out of head of babies or of first cry.For collecting more information please Bhaskar Ji,VGR Pavan Ji,Or any other member may contact sincerely on cell No. 09837053494

,9837053494. Please you may contact between 6:30PM to 7:00PM.

Method 8 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham

The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant, if the Ascendant is correct.Reference: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.

Method 9 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham

The Sun, Jupiter and Venus, alone, are the three planets mainly responsible for human births...i) Sun is the Athma Karaka-chief sigificator of the soul...ii) Jupiter is Putrakaraka- chief significator for childbirth... .iii)Venus is Kamakaraka-chief significator for sexual pleasure.... It has been observed by the late M.P.Shanmugham, that Sun or Jupiter or Venus, are always found as the starlord or sublord of the IXth cusp. Thus emerges the method, that if the IXth sublord is found to be under the said circumstances( sic), the horoscope cast is correct...to the minute...

!Reference: http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22262

[1] Male baby (Suyash)

DOB-06th April,1998

TOB-Recorded Time- 10:12AM[Recorded time of first cry]

POB-Haldwani, District- Nainital

Latitude-29N13

Longitude-79E31

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Asc-Sub lord= Moon sub lord=Venus

Asc sub sub lord =Moon star lord=Mercury

 

Other Birth Particulars,

 

[2]Daughter was born in hospital- Time of first cry was recorded

DOB-24th June,1995

TOB-10:56PM

POB-Basti,U. P

Latitude-26N48

Longitude 82E44

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Sun

Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub = Saturn

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

 

[3]My own

DOB-20th April,1959

TOB-08:15AM( Recorded Time) as noted in Janm Patri,Rectified by me as 08:15:56 AM for K.P Ayanamsa only.I think at that time watch was either slow by 56 seconds or watch had not hand showing time up to second.

POB-Basti,U. P,India.

Latitude-26N48

Longitude-82E44

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord = Venus

Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord =Saturn

 

[4]Female,National Institute of Health,Washington D.C

DOB-20.09.1977

POB-Mumbai

TOB-08:30:50AM

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Ketu

Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub =Venus

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

 

[5] K.S.Krishnamurty Ji

DOB-01-11-1908

TOB-12:07:30PM

POB-Thiruvayuru

Asc sub lord =Moon star lord=Moon

Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord = Mars

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

 

Does there any rule apply? Does recorded birth time of first cry reveal any rule or on what basis you can deny this time.More recorded time of first cry may be collected,if required for study.

With thanks & regards,

Dhirendra Nath Misra

 

 

 

 

 

vgr pavan <vgr_pavan1 (AT) (DOT) co.in>dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.comThu, December 31, 2009 6:52:15 AMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

Mishraji Pranam,I am interested to collect more birth profiles , If you can give me your "bhabhijis" contact details.thanks ,.....Peace and Prosperity to All !!VGR--- On Wed, 30/12/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.com> wrote:

Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.com>Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.comWednesday, 30 December, 2009, 1:18 PM

 

 

 

 

Dear Lazmi Ji,D.Senthil Ji,Punit Ji,Bhaskar Ji,Kalyan Ji,Tw Ji ,Dr.Rath Ji & other senior members,

I am fowarding birth particulars of my son recorded by my Bhabhi (Dr.Jay Sri) Ji who is a medical doctor and runs her own maternity center in Haldwani,District- Nainital at Mukhani.She records time of first cry of child as correct birth time.Thousands of birth time of first cry of babies may be collected from there.I may provide her cell No. if required to collect birth data of first cry.

Birth particular of my own son is as under:

[1] Male baby (Suyash)

DOB-06th April,1998

TOB-Recorded Time- 10:12AM[Recorded time of first cry]

POB-Haldwani, District- Nainital

Latitude-29N13

Longitude-79E31

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Asc-Sub lord= Moon sub lord=Venus

Asc sub sub lord =Moon star lord=Mercury

 

Other Birth Particulars,

 

[2]Daughter was born in hospital- Time of first cry was recorded

DOB-24th June,1995

TOB-10:56PM

POB-Basti,U. P

Latitude-26N48

Longitude 82E44

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Sun

Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub = Saturn

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

 

[3]My own

DOB-20th April,1959

TOB-08:15AM( Recorded Time) as noted in Janm Patri,Rectified by me as 08:15:56 AM for K.P Ayanamsa only.I think at that time watch was either slow by 56 seconds or watch had not hand showing time up to second.

POB-Basti,U. P,India.

Latitude-26N48

Longitude-82E44

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord = Venus

Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord =Saturn

 

[4]Female,National Institute of Health,Washington D.C

DOB-20.09.1977

POB-Mumbai

TOB-08:30:50AM

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Ketu

Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub =Venus

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

 

[5] K.S.Krishnamurty Ji

DOB-01-11-1908

TOB-12:07:30PM

POB-Thiruvayuru

Asc sub lord =Moon star lord=Moon

Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord = Mars

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

 

Does there any rule apply? Does recorded birth time of first cry reveal any rule or on what basis you can deny this time.More recorded time of first cry may be collected,if required for study.

Dhirendra Nath Misra

 

 

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>@gro ups.comTue, December 29, 2009 10:46:39 PM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Dear Mishra ji,Logic or not, is a seperate matter, but - Where do we get this rule inmost cases ???regards/Bhaskar.@gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra<dhirendranathmisra wrote:>> Dear D.Senthil Sir,>              Â             Â       // "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"> Â> Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂthe above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONGONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂsaying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply aUSLESS RULE ONLY. //> Â>              Â             Canyou once again shed

some light on the above as to why we get in mostof the cases "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub =Natal MOON Sub" even if there is no logic.Certainly in few cases theabove condition does not apply and necessity arose to find outÂperfect rule beyond doubt.> With thanks & regards,Â> Dhirendra Nath Misra> Â>>>>> ____________ _________ _________ __> Senthil athi_ram @gro ups.com> Tue, December 29, 2009 5:59:23 AM> Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?>> Â> Dear Members,>> The RULE,> Â> "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"> Â> Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂthe above rule for few seconds or few minutes

all are WRONGONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂsaying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply aUSLESS RULE ONLY.> Â> GOOD LUCK!!>>> D.Senthil>>>> --- On Mon, 12/28/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @ymail.com> wrote:>>> >Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @ ymail.com>> >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?> >@gro ups.com> >Monday, December 28, 2009, 6:54 AM> >> >> >Â> >Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shiftingrecorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3minutes) only we can

apply the above rule.Besides this thedifferent astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birthtime further for different ayanamsas.> >With thanks & regards,Â> >Dhirendra Nath Misra> >Â> >> >> >> >> >> ____________ _________ _________ __> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>> >@gro ups.com> >Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >Â> >Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. Buttrying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half anhour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist whohas come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will

lookat us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not readyto listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark.Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that thenatives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recordingof the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before Ipronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwiseI would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moonis not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift thetime to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect.> >> >Bhaskar.> >> >@gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>wrote:> >>> >> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, andyou will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?>

>>> >> Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then notethe time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the deliveryroom ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested? Good.> >>> >> Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods andsuch topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time ofBirth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? Andwhat is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going togo about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physicalchecking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, wemust ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated andbecome pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we mustcheck for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage ornot- every evening go

where she goes, whom she meets, how much love isthere between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ?Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?> >>> >> Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Whycant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnaliato predict ?> >>> >> If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will beable to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type ofastrology are we into ?> >>> >> And after having known the time of the first cry, do You thinkwhatever you predict will be right ?> >>> >> Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one.He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his powerof discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.> >>>

>> Bhaskar.> >>> >>> >>> >> @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh"<suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> >> >> >> > Dear Punitji> >> >> >> > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connectionwith nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actualtime of first cry.> >> >> >> > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> >> >> >> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> >> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> >> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A> >> > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> >> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> >> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a

thirdplanet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentionedorb with C> >> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> >> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> >> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,withspecified orb)> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Regards> >> >> >> > Suprakash> >> >> >> >> >> > -> >> > Punit Pandey> >> > @gro ups.com> >> > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Suprakash ji,> >> >>

>> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have anyalternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please letus know how you want to do it?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc andMoon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we havethis definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moonconnection method with your suggestions incorporated.> >> >> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> >> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh<suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Punit ji>

>> >> >> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let usknow the basic conditions assumed during the test.> >> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What wasthe genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all thecharts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What Imean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connectionapparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they haveexchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed inthis way?> >> >> >> > If not, then the test has no relevance.> >> >> >> > Regards> >> >> >> > Suprakash> >> >> >> >> >> > -> >> > Punit Pandey> >> > To:

@gro ups.com> >> > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Suresh ji,> >> >> >> > Please see your post (http://groups. / group//message/ 30047). I quote -> >> >> >> > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji ispracticable as well as logical."> >> > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is likere-inventing the wheel."> >> > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method asbest suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insistfurther research on the subject is surprising."> >>

>> >> > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" andthe study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the filesection and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercelybut what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That isthe reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommendfollowing them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods.> >> >> >> > What we are doing is not further research but merely verificationof available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a longtime, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. Itmay not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely ininterest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process andparticipating in it, I wounder

why people are trying to divert attentionand making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale andwe all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of thisexercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally theKP will win.> >> >> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> >> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@>wrote:> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Punitji,> >> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You haveobviously not read full comment where I have said you can test thismethod for results..But again obviously my comment has touched a rawnerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seemto question

value of his experience.My only point is research done in somany directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of datawill be interpreted differently by different people as will be evidentif you have read subsequent post.> >> > Suresh Hattangadi> >> >> >>> >> >> >>

 

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Dear TW Ji, Learned Sri Yogesh Lazmi Ji has Approved the very rule saying as under -

Dear Dhirendranath,

The famous K.P. Rule,that the Ascendant's Sub-lord and Sub-sub-lord must appear as the Moon's Star-lord and Sub-lord respectively. ..

Your examples were all very correct as per K.P. Rules...(except that I did not check the American Birth...)

Wishing you the very best,

Yogesh Lajmi.

GOOD LUCK !

Dhirendra Nath Misra

 

 

 

 

 

TW <tw853 Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 2:13:35 AM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Dear Friends,How is this rule useless without being correct for any chart in the publised astrological literature? Regards,TW @gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra wrote:>> Bhaskar Ji ,Tw Ji & others> We get this rule from-> Method 8 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham> The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant, if the Ascendant is correct.> Reference: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam > With thanks & regards,> Dhirendra Nath Misra>  > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> @gro ups.com> Cc: Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>> Wed, December 30, 2009 9:50:34 PM> Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?> >  > Dear Bhaskar,>                     The Time of Epoch,or the exact time when the human egg is fertilised is approximately 273 days before the TOB....in most cases of normal deliveries.. .>                     Ms. Linda Goodman, in her excellent Book, "Love Signs", has written an article captioned> "A

Time to Embrace"...in which she has said that ancient Kings were advised by their astrologers ,> shamans etc.,that the best time for the Queen to conceive was during the few hours when the Sun and Moon,are exactly at the same number of degrees apart,as they were at the Time of her birth.>                     It was later found by KSK and researched upon by K.P. Scholars,that the Ruling Planets> at the fertilisation (of the human egg,by the human sperm),were the very same at theTime of Birth (and also of one's death,too !)...in around over 60 % of cases...>                     Further research showed that at the EXACT Time Of Birth,the

Ascendant sublord should the same or is in the same star of the Moon's Star-lord... (which can be extended to,depending upon the SW one is using to... Ascendant's sub lord and sub-sub-lord which should appear as the starlord and sub-lord of the Moon.)>                     This is the background for what is said by the late Shri M.P.Shanmugham in his very illuminating book...and perhaps what Mr.Dhirendranath was trying to say...>                      With kind regards,>                     Â

Yogesh Lajmi> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>> @gro ups.com> Tue, 29 December, 2009 10:46:39 PM> Re: What is the correct birth time?> > Â > > Dear Mishra ji,> >

Logic or not, is a seperate matter, but - Where do we get this rule in> most cases ???> > regards/Bhaskar.> > @gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra> <dhirendranathmisra wrote:> >> > Dear D.Senthil Sir,> >              Â>              Â>        // "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & > Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"> > Â> > Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂ> the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG> ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂ> saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE.

It is simply a> USLESS RULE ONLY. //> > Â> >              Â>              Can> you once again shed some light on the above as to why we get in most> of the cases "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub => Natal MOON Sub" even if there is no logic.Certainly in few cases the> above condition does not apply and necessity arose to find outÂ> perfect rule beyond doubt.> > With thanks & regards,Â> > Dhirendra Nath Misra> > Â> >> >> >> >> > ____________ _________ _________ __> > Senthil athi_ram@> > @gro ups.com> > Tue, December 29, 2009 5:59:23 AM> > Subject:

Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> > Â> > Dear Members,> >> > The RULE,> > Â> > "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"> > Â> > Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂ> the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG> ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂ> saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a> USLESS RULE ONLY.> > Â> > GOOD LUCK!!> >> >> > D.Senthil> >> >> >> > --- On Mon, 12/28/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @> ymail.com> wrote:> >> >> >

>Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @ ymail.com>> > >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?> > >@gro ups.com> > >Monday, December 28, 2009, 6:54 AM> > >> > >> > >Â> > >Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting> recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3> minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the> different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth> time further for different ayanamsas.> > >With thanks & regards,Â> > >Dhirendra Nath Misra> > >Â> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ____________ _________ _________ __> > Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@

.co. in>> > >@gro ups.com> > >Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM> > > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > >> > >Â> > >Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But> trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an> hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who> has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look> at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready> to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark.> Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the> natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording> of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before

I> pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise> I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon> is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the> time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect.> > >> > >Bhaskar.> > >> > >@gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>> wrote:> > >>> > >> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and> you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?> > >>> > >> Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note> the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery> room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested> ? Good..> > >>> >

>> Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and> such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of> Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And> what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to> go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical> checking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, we> must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and> become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must> check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or> not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is> there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ?> Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?> > >>> > >> Why

does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why> cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia> to predict ?> > >>> > >> If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be> able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of> astrology are we into ?> > >>> > >> And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think> whatever you predict will be right ?> > >>> > >> Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one.> He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power> of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.> > >>> > >> Bhaskar.> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> @gro ups.com,

"Suprakash Ghosh"> <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > >> >> > >> > Dear Punitji> > >> >> > >> > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection> with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual> time of first cry.> > >> >> > >> > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> > >> >> > >> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> > >> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> > >> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A> > >> > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> > >> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> > >> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third> planet C is inbetween and each one of

A & B maintains a gap of mentioned> orb with C> > >> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> > >> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> > >> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with> specified orb)> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > Regards> > >> >> > >> > Suprakash> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > -> > >> > Punit Pandey> > >> > @gro ups.com> > >> > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> > >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>

> >> > Dear Suprakash ji,> > >> >> > >> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any> alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let> us know how you want to do it?> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and> Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have> this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon> connection method with your suggestions incorporated.> > >> >> > >> > Thanks & Regards,> > >> >> > >> > Punit Pandey> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM,

Suprakash Ghosh> <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > Dear Punit ji> > >> >> > >> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us> know the basic conditions assumed during the test.> > >> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was> the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the> charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I> mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection> apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have> exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in> this way?> > >> >> > >> > If not, then the test has no relevance.> > >>

>> > >> > Regards> > >> >> > >> > Suprakash> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > -> > >> > Punit Pandey> > >> > @gro ups.com> > >> > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> > >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > Dear Suresh ji,> > >> >> > >> > Please see your post (http://groups./ / group/k_p_> system/message/ 30047). I quote -> > >> >> > >> > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is> practicable as well

as logical."> > >> > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like> re-inventing the wheel."> > >> > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as> best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist> further research on the subject is surprising."> > >> >> > >> > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and> the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file> section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely> but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is> the reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.> Your opinion (point no.. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend> following them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods.> > >>

>> > >> > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification> of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long> time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It> may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in> interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and> participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention> and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and> we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this> exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the> KP will win.> > >> >> > >> > Thanks & Regards,> > >> >> > >> > Punit Pandey> > >> >> > >> >> >

>> >> > >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@>> wrote:> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > Dear Punitji,> > >> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have> obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this> method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw> nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem> to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so> many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data> will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident> if you have read subsequent post.> > >> > Suresh Hattangadi> > >> >> > >>> > >> > >> >

>> >> > > ____________ _________ _________ __> See what's on at the movies in your area.. Find out now.>

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Dear All

I do not understand the utility of all this discussion. The taste of pudding is in eating.A birth time(Rectified or otherwise) which is able to explain the past events of life is correct. Again what is the harm in doing research? Why are some people opposing it,no science can advance if we have closed mind and are satisfied with what our ancestors have said. Remember those masters did go farther than their own gurus or ideals.Knowlegde has no closed frontiers.KSK did not take,traditional system as the last word,why are we afraid to try to see beyond KSK ,he would be happy to see his deciples advance the knowledge rather beeing dumb followers.

With respects & regards

A.K.Sehgal --- On Fri, 1/1/10, TW <tw853 wrote:

TW <tw853 Re: What is the correct birth time? Date: Friday, 1 January, 2010, 2:13 AM

Dear Friends,How is this rule useless without being correct for any chart in the publised astrological literature? Regards,TW @gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra wrote:>> Bhaskar Ji ,Tw Ji & others> We get this rule from-> Method 8 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham> The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant, if the Ascendant is correct.> Reference: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam > With thanks & regards,> Dhirendra Nath Misra>  > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> Yogesh Lajmi

<yogeshlajmi@ ...>> @gro ups.com> Cc: Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>> Wed, December 30, 2009 9:50:34 PM> Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?> >  > Dear Bhaskar,>                     The Time of Epoch,or the exact time when the human egg is fertilised is approximately 273 days before the TOB....in most cases of normal deliveries.. .>                     Ms. Linda Goodman, in her

excellent Book, "Love Signs", has written an article captioned> "A Time to Embrace"...in which she has said that ancient Kings were advised by their astrologers ,> shamans etc.,that the best time for the Queen to conceive was during the few hours when the Sun and Moon,are exactly at the same number of degrees apart,as they were at the Time of her birth.>                     It was later found by KSK and researched upon by K.P. Scholars,that the Ruling Planets> at the fertilisation (of the human egg,by the human sperm),were the very same at theTime of Birth (and also of one's death,too !)...in around over 60 % of cases...>

                    Further research showed that at the EXACT Time Of Birth,the Ascendant sublord should the same or is in the same star of the Moon's Star-lord... (which can be extended to,depending upon the SW one is using to... Ascendant's sub lord and sub-sub-lord which should appear as the starlord and sub-lord of the Moon.)>                     This is the background for what is said by the late Shri M.P.Shanmugham in his very illuminating book...and perhaps what Mr.Dhirendranath was trying to say...>

                     With kind regards,>                      Yogesh Lajmi>                     >                  >                      > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __>

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>> @gro ups.com> Tue, 29 December, 2009 10:46:39 PM> Re: What is the correct birth time?> >  > > Dear Mishra ji,> > Logic or not, is a seperate matter, but - Where do we get this rule in> most cases ???> > regards/Bhaskar.> > @gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra> <dhirendranathmisra wrote:> >> > Dear D.Senthil Sir,> >              Â>              Â>        // "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & > Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"> > Â> > Can’t be

considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂ> the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG> ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂ> saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a> USLESS RULE ONLY. //> > Â> >              Â>              Can> you once again shed some light on the above as to why we get in most> of the cases "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub => Natal MOON Sub" even if there is no logic.Certainly in few cases the> above condition does not apply and necessity arose to find outÂ> perfect rule beyond doubt.> > With thanks & regards,Â> > Dhirendra Nath

Misra> > Â> >> >> >> >> > ____________ _________ _________ __> > Senthil athi_ram@> > @gro ups.com> > Tue, December 29, 2009 5:59:23 AM> > Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> > Â> > Dear Members,> >> > The RULE,> > Â> > "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"> > Â> > Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂ> the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG> ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂ> saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a> USLESS RULE ONLY.> > Â> > GOOD LUCK!!>

>> >> > D.Senthil> >> >> >> > --- On Mon, 12/28/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @> ymail.com> wrote:> >> >> > >Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @ ymail.com>> > >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?> > >@gro ups.com> > >Monday, December 28, 2009, 6:54 AM> > >> > >> > >Â> > >Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting> recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3> minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the> different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth> time further for different ayanamsas.> > >With thanks & regards,Â> >

>Dhirendra Nath Misra> > >Â> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ____________ _________ _________ __> > Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>> > >@gro ups.com> > >Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM> > > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > >> > >Â> > >Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But> trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an> hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who> has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look> at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready> to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark.>

Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the> natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording> of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before I> pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise> I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon> is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the> time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect.> > >> > >Bhaskar.> > >> > >@gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>> wrote:> > >>> > >> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and> you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?> > >>> > >> Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and

then note> the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery> room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested> ? Good..> > >>> > >> Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and> such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of> Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And> what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to> go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical> checking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, we> must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and> become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must> check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or> not- every evening go where she

goes, whom she meets, how much love is> there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ?> Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?> > >>> > >> Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why> cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia> to predict ?> > >>> > >> If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be> able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of> astrology are we into ?> > >>> > >> And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think> whatever you predict will be right ?> > >>> > >> Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one.> He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power> of

discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.> > >>> > >> Bhaskar.> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh"> <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > >> >> > >> > Dear Punitji> > >> >> > >> > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection> with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual> time of first cry.> > >> >> > >> > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> > >> >> > >> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> > >> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> > >> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A> > >> > c-1)A in sign of B and B in

sign of A in navamsa> > >> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> > >> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third> planet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned> orb with C> > >> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> > >> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> > >> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with> specified orb)> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > Regards> > >> >> > >> > Suprakash> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > -> > >> > Punit Pandey> > >> > @gro ups.com> > >> > Sent:

Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> > >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > Dear Suprakash ji,> > >> >> > >> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any> alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let> us know how you want to do it?> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and> Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have> this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon> connection method with your suggestions incorporated.> > >> >> > >>

> Thanks & Regards,> > >> >> > >> > Punit Pandey> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh> <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > Dear Punit ji> > >> >> > >> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us> know the basic conditions assumed during the test.> > >> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was> the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the> charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I> mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection> apparently between moon star and asc sub. but

in the chat, they have> exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in> this way?> > >> >> > >> > If not, then the test has no relevance.> > >> >> > >> > Regards> > >> >> > >> > Suprakash> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > -> > >> > Punit Pandey> > >> > @gro ups.com> > >> > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> > >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > Dear Suresh ji,> > >> >> > >> > Please see your post (http://groups. / / group/k_p_> system/message/ 30047). I quote -> > >> >> > >> > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is> practicable as well as logical."> > >> > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like> re-inventing the wheel."> > >> > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as> best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist> further research on the subject is surprising."> > >> >> > >> > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and> the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file> section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely> but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is>

the reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.> Your opinion (point no.. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend> following them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods.> > >> >> > >> > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification> of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long> time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It> may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in> interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and> participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention> and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and> we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this> exercise, we will know which methods work and which

doesn't. Finally the> KP will win.> > >> >> > >> > Thanks & Regards,> > >> >> > >> > Punit Pandey> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@>> wrote:> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > Dear Punitji,> > >> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have> obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this> method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw> nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem> to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so> many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data> will be

interpreted differently by different people as will be evident> if you have read subsequent post.> > >> > Suresh Hattangadi> > >> >> > >>> > >> > >> > >> >> > > ____________ _________ _________ __> See what's on at the movies in your area.. Find out now.>

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.

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Dear Sunaparantha ji,

 

1. The most important point is to apply it when the TOB is doubtful especially

by the querist self, as mentioned by " If it is not available " , and only then

" Mysteriously God will help you ... " .

 

2. The easy way of application is the one done in the 4 step method as follows.

 

If the sub-lord is among the RPs, it is supposed to be correct. If it does not

appear in the RPs, the RP (planet), which is ahead or behind the original

sub-lord is to be taken as the corrected sub-lord of the relevant cusp. The

preference is to be given to the RP as per the order of priority given in the

following point 3, if both planets ahead and behind the original sub-lord appear

in the RPs.

 

Note: It needs to adjust the TOB once and forever to get the corrected sub-lord

of the relevant cusp, and to recast the chart to get the corrected significators

as per the corrected TOB in line with the corrected sub-lord.

 

3. Another guidance by our Guruji KSK is as follows:

 

" ... I have repeatedly told you all, that for any single question, take the

moment when you take that question for judgment, note down the Lords of lagna,

star, rasi and day. They are the ruling planets at that moment. Take the first

query if there are many, that his, if one wants to know the ascendant, 5th and

so on, take ascendant. If one wants to fix up the seventh, 11th and so on take

seventh. If one wants to know eight and six take 8th cusp. If one wants to know

11th, seven and five take 11th cusp that is the first one mentioned by the

querist. Then this cusp falls in a sign and in a star. Note the Lords of the

sign and star. They must be in the list of the ruling planets. Then note down

the remaining ones. Either of the two should be the sublord you take the

priority list: first lagna Lord: next nakshatra Lord: third rasilord and fourth

day Lord. If day lord and rasilord happen to be the Lord of the lagna and star

of the person, then the sublord will be the Lord of the lagna and sub-sub Lord

of the nakshatra, Constellation at the time of query. Thus you find the Lord of

the sub. Invariably it comes correct.....

Thus, you fix the exact degree of lagna: if they wanted to know the position of

lagna. If one wants to know the cusp of a house, proceed in the same manner and

fix. "

-Guruji KSK, A & A September 1967 issue

 

Regards,

TW

 

 

 

, Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha wrote:

>

> Dear Guruji,

>

> I wish to make attention to the last para of the Msg,

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30250?threaded= 1

> and Reader 3 page 281

>

> Which says,

> //Note the sublord of the sixth (6th) cusp. This needs correct moment of

birth.

> " If it is not available " , then if you want to know the sub of the sixth, you

> take ruling planets at the moment when you have the urge to put the query.

> Mysteriously God will help you by eliminating the previous and the next sub to

> the one which you have to select//

>

> This statement for 6th Sub, does'nt make any connection with BTR and the

quoted para is included in an interpretation of Disease in Reader 3. Further it

says " Mysteriously God will help you by eliminating the previous and the next

sub tothe one which you have to select "

>

> Could you pleae make an explanation for

> 1. How to arrive 6tth CSL thru RP?

> 2. If one need to select Lagna Sub, how it denote the previuos and next thru

above rule?

>

> Appreciate an example on this, to show the way to BTR?

>

> With Due Regards

>

> Suanaparantha

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

________________________________

> TW <tw853

>

> Thu, 31 December, 2009 8:44:33 PM

> Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

>

> Dear Friends,

> This non-RP based rule is nothing to do with the RP-based BTR recommending

Pre-Natal Approach articles by late K.M. Subramaniam and his nephew Vikarai

Ramamurthy.

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30250?threaded= 1

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30276

> Regards,

> TW

>

> @gro ups.com, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Bhaskar,

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â The Time of

Epoch,or the exact time when the human egg is fertilised is approximately 273

days before the TOB...in most cases of normal deliveries.. .

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Ms. Linda

Goodman, in her excellent Book, " Love Signs " , has written an article captioned

> > " A Time to Embrace " ...in which she has said that ancient Kings were

advised by their astrologers ,

> > shamans etc.,that the best time for the Queen to conceive was during the few

hours when the Sun and Moon,are exactly at the same number of degrees apart,as

they were at the Time of her birth.

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â It was later

found by KSK and researched upon by K.P. Scholars,that the Ruling Planets

> > at the fertilisation (of the human egg,by the human sperm),were the very

same at theTime of Birth (and also of one's death,too !)...in around over 60 %

of cases...

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Further

research showed that at the EXACT Time Of Birth,the Ascendant sublord should

the same or is in the same star of the Moon's Star-lord... (which can be

extended to,depending upon the SW one is using to... Ascendant's sub lord and

sub-sub-lord which should appear as the starlord and sub-lord of the Moon.)

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â This is the

background for what is said by the late Shri M.P.Shanmugham in his very

illuminating book...and perhaps what Mr.Dhirendranath was trying to say...

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â With kind

regards,

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Yogesh Lajmi

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>

> > @ ..

> > Tue, 29 December, 2009 10:46:39 PM

> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >

> > Â

> >

> > Dear Mishra ji,

> >

> > Logic or not, is a seperate matter, but - Where do we get this rule in

> > most cases ???

> >

> > regards/Bhaskar.

> >

> > @gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra

> > <dhirendranathmisra wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear D.Senthil Sir,

> > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

 Â

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

 Â

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â // " Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON

Star &

> > Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub "

> > > Â

> > > Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you

applyÂ

> > the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG

> > ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂ

> > saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a

> > USLESS RULE ONLY. //

> > > Â

> > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

 Â

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

 Can

> > you once again shed some light on the above as to why we get in most

> > of the cases " Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub =

> > Natal MOON Sub " even if there is no logic.Certainly in few cases the

> > above condition does not apply and necessity arose to find outÂ

> > perfect rule beyond doubt.

> > > With thanks & regards,Â

> > > Dhirendra Nath Misra

> > > Â

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > Senthil athi_ram@

> > > @gro ups.com

> > > Tue, December 29, 2009 5:59:23 AM

> > > Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > >

> > > Â

> > > Dear Members,

> > >

> > > The RULE,

> > > Â

> > > " Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub "

> > > Â

> > > Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you

applyÂ

> > the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG

> > ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂ

> > saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a

> > USLESS RULE ONLY.

> > > Â

> > > GOOD LUCK!!

> > >

> > >

> > > D.Senthil

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --- On Mon, 12/28/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @

> > ymail.com> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > >Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @ ymail.com>

> > > >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > > >@gro ups.com

> > > >Monday, December 28, 2009, 6:54 AM

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >Â

> > > >Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting

> > recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3

> > minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the

> > different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth

> > time further for different ayanamsas.

> > > >With thanks & regards,Â

> > > >Dhirendra Nath Misra

> > > >Â

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>

> > > >@gro ups.com

> > > >Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM

> > > > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > > >

> > > >Â

> > > >Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But

> > trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an

> > hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who

> > has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look

> > at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready

> > to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark.

> > Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the

> > natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording

> > of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before I

> > pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise

> > I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon

> > is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the

> > time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect.

> > > >

> > > >Bhaskar.

> > > >

> > > >@gro ups.com, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>

> > wrote:

> > > >>

> > > >> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and

> > you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?

> > > >>

> > > >> Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note

> > the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery

> > room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested

> > ? Good.

> > > >>

> > > >> Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and

> > such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of

> > Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And

> > what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to

> > go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical

> > checking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, we

> > must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and

> > become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must

> > check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or

> > not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is

> > there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ?

> > Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?

> > > >>

> > > >> Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why

> > cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia

> > to predict ?

> > > >>

> > > >> If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be

> > able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of

> > astrology are we into ?

> > > >>

> > > >> And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think

> > whatever you predict will be right ?

> > > >>

> > > >> Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one.

> > He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power

> > of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.

> > > >>

> > > >> Bhaskar.

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> @gro ups.com, " Suprakash Ghosh "

> > <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Dear Punitji

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection

> > with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual

> > time of first cry.

> > > >> >

> > > >> > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :

> > > >> >

> > > >> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A

> > > >> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A

> > > >> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A

> > > >> > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa

> > > >> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)

> > > >> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third

> > planet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned

> > orb with C

> > > >> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)

> > > >> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)

> > > >> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with

> > specified orb)

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Regards

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Suprakash

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > -

> > > >> > Punit Pandey

> > > >> > @gro ups.com

> > > >> > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM

> > > >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Dear Suprakash ji,

> > > >> >

> > > >> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any

> > alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let

> > us know how you want to do it?

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and

> > Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have

> > this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon

> > connection method with your suggestions incorporated.

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Thanks & Regards,

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Punit Pandey

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh

> > <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Dear Punit ji

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us

> > know the basic conditions assumed during the test.

> > > >> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was

> > the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the

> > charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I

> > mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection

> > apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have

> > exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in

> > this way?

> > > >> >

> > > >> > If not, then the test has no relevance.

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Regards

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Suprakash

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > -

> > > >> > Punit Pandey

> > > >> > @gro ups.com

> > > >> > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM

> > > >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Dear Suresh ji,

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_

> > system/message/ 30047). I quote -

> > > >> >

> > > >> > 1. " In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is

> > practicable as well as logical. "

> > > >> > 2. " Suggesting further research in this matter is like

> > re-inventing the wheel. "

> > > >> > 3. " When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as

> > best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist

> > further research on the subject is surprising. "

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method " most often " and

> > the study found that the method doesn't work.. Please see the file

> > section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely

> > but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is

> > the reason I say that we should not " blindly " follow even Stalwarts.

> > Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend

> > following them " blindly " which also means following incorrect methods.

> > > >> >

> > > >> > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification

> > of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long

> > time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It

> > may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in

> > interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and

> > participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention

> > and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and

> > we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this

> > exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the

> > KP will win.

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Thanks & Regards,

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Punit Pandey

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@>

> > wrote:

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Dear Punitji,

> > > >> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have

> > obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this

> > method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw

> > nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem

> > to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so

> > many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data

> > will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident

> > if you have read subsequent post.

> > > >> > Suresh Hattangadi

> > > >> >

> > > >>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> > See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.

/ session-times/

>

______________________________\

__

> See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now:

http://au.movies./session-times/

>

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Not Correctness but Failure of ---

Asc Sub = Moon Star & simultaneously Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule.doc

/message/30331

 

 

, " VIJAYANAND PATIL "

<guide_vijayanand wrote:

>

> Dear friends

> Please answer or ask anything but the link must be remained the same.

> In this context, I request all friends who are giving posts in this forum,

without opening new file, please continue to the current file of the original

post it will help all others to understand the basic theme of the subject.

> At last, every astrologer has his own views regarding ruling planets as

well as rectification of birth time and they will be confined with him only. If

the same will be tried by others, time rectified will not be matched because of

use of different views.

> I request all members to go through every method and try them and apply

any of them to get correct rectified time of birth and then check the past

events in the light of transit and if possible DBAs. This will give you the

correctness as compared with others.

> With regards

> Vijayanand Patil, President, Astrovision, Kolhapur

> Cell No. +91 9673746303/+919422582853

> email : guide_vijayanand

> On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:53:30 +0530 wrote

> >

> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh

> wrote:

> > > > Dear Punitji,

> > > > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously

> not read full comment where I have said you can test this method for

> results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji,

> s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question

> value of his experience.My only point is research done in so many

> directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will

> be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident if you

> have read subsequent post.

> > > > Suresh Hattangadi

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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/message/30331

 

, ashok sehgal <aks071945 wrote:

>

> Dear All

> I do not understand the utility of all this discussion. The taste of pudding

is in eating.A birth time(Rectified or otherwise) which is able to explain the

past events of life is correct. Again what is the harm in doing research? Why

are some people opposing it,no science can advance if we have closed mind and

are satisfied with what our ancestors have said. Remember those masters did go

farther than their own gurus or ideals.Knowlegde has no closed

frontiers.KSK did not take,traditional system as the last word,why are we

afraid to try to see beyond KSK ,he would be happy to see his deciples advance

the knowledge rather beeing dumb followers.

> With respects & regards

> A.K.Sehgal 

>

> --- On Fri, 1/1/10, TW <tw853 wrote:

>

>

> TW <tw853

> Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

> Friday, 1 January, 2010, 2:13 AM

>

>

>  

>

>

>

> Dear Friends,

> How is this rule useless without being correct for any chart in the publised

astrological literature?

> Regards,

> TW

>

>

> @gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra

wrote:

> >

> > Bhaskar Ji ,Tw Ji & others

> > We get this rule from-

> > Method 8 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham

> > The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and

sub-sublord of the Ascendant, if the Ascendant is correct.

> > Reference: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by

Mr.K.Subramaniam 

> > With thanks & regards,

> > Dhirendra Nath Misra

> >  

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>

> > @gro ups.com

> > Cc: Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>

> > Wed, December 30, 2009 9:50:34 PM

> > Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >

> >  

> > Dear Bhaskar,

> >

                    

The Time of Epoch,or the exact time when the human egg is fertilised is

approximately 273 days before the TOB....in most cases of normal deliveries.. .

> >

                    

Ms. Linda Goodman, in her excellent Book,  " Love Signs " , has written an

article captioned

> > " A Time to Embrace " ...in which she has said that ancient Kings were

advised by their astrologers ,

> > shamans etc.,that the best time for the Queen to conceive was during the few

hours when the Sun and Moon,are exactly at the same number of degrees apart,as

they were at the Time of her birth.

> >

                    

It was later found by KSK and researched upon by K.P. Scholars,that the Ruling

Planets

> > at the fertilisation (of the human egg,by the human sperm),were the very

same at theTime of Birth (and also of one's death,too !)...in around over 60 %

of cases...

> >

                    

Further research showed that at the EXACT Time Of Birth,the Ascendant

sublord should the same or is in the same star of the Moon's Star-lord...

(which can be extended to,depending upon the SW one is using to... Ascendant's

sub lord and sub-sub-lord which should appear as the starlord and sub-lord of

the Moon.)

> >

                    

This is the background for what is said by the late Shri M.P.Shanmugham in his

very illuminating book...and perhaps what Mr.Dhirendranath was trying to say...

> >

                    \

  With kind regards,

> >

                    \

  Yogesh Lajmi

> >

                    

> >                  

> >

                    \

 

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>

> > @gro ups.com

> > Tue, 29 December, 2009 10:46:39 PM

> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >

> >  

> >

> > Dear Mishra ji,

> >

> > Logic or not, is a seperate matter, but - Where do we get this rule in

> > most cases ???

> >

> > regards/Bhaskar.

> >

> > @gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra

> > <dhirendranathmisra wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear D.Senthil Sir,

> > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

 Â

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

 Â

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â // " Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON

Star &

> > Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub "

> > > Â

> > > Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you

applyÂ

> > the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG

> > ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂ

> > saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a

> > USLESS RULE ONLY. //

> > > Â

> > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

 Â

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

 Can

> > you once again shed some light on the above as to why we get in most

> > of the cases " Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub =

> > Natal MOON Sub " even if there is no logic.Certainly in few cases the

> > above condition does not apply and necessity arose to find outÂ

> > perfect rule beyond doubt.

> > > With thanks & regards,Â

> > > Dhirendra Nath Misra

> > > Â

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > Senthil athi_ram@

> > > @gro ups.com

> > > Tue, December 29, 2009 5:59:23 AM

> > > Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > >

> > > Â

> > > Dear Members,

> > >

> > > The RULE,

> > > Â

> > > " Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub "

> > > Â

> > > Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you

applyÂ

> > the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG

> > ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂ

> > saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a

> > USLESS RULE ONLY.

> > > Â

> > > GOOD LUCK!!

> > >

> > >

> > > D.Senthil

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --- On Mon, 12/28/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @

> > ymail.com> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > >Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @ ymail.com>

> > > >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > > >@gro ups.com

> > > >Monday, December 28, 2009, 6:54 AM

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >Â

> > > >Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting

> > recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3

> > minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the

> > different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth

> > time further for different ayanamsas.

> > > >With thanks & regards,Â

> > > >Dhirendra Nath Misra

> > > >Â

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>

> > > >@gro ups.com

> > > >Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM

> > > > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > > >

> > > >Â

> > > >Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But

> > trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an

> > hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who

> > has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look

> > at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready

> > to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark.

> > Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the

> > natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording

> > of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before I

> > pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise

> > I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon

> > is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the

> > time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect.

> > > >

> > > >Bhaskar.

> > > >

> > > >@gro ups.com, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>

> > wrote:

> > > >>

> > > >> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and

> > you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?

> > > >>

> > > >> Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note

> > the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery

> > room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested

> > ? Good..

> > > >>

> > > >> Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and

> > such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of

> > Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And

> > what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to

> > go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical

> > checking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, we

> > must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and

> > become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must

> > check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or

> > not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is

> > there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ?

> > Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?

> > > >>

> > > >> Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why

> > cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia

> > to predict ?

> > > >>

> > > >> If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be

> > able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of

> > astrology are we into ?

> > > >>

> > > >> And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think

> > whatever you predict will be right ?

> > > >>

> > > >> Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one.

> > He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power

> > of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.

> > > >>

> > > >> Bhaskar.

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> @gro ups.com, " Suprakash Ghosh "

> > <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Dear Punitji

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection

> > with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual

> > time of first cry.

> > > >> >

> > > >> > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :

> > > >> >

> > > >> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A

> > > >> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A

> > > >> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A

> > > >> > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa

> > > >> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)

> > > >> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third

> > planet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned

> > orb with C

> > > >> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)

> > > >> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)

> > > >> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with

> > specified orb)

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Regards

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Suprakash

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > -

> > > >> > Punit Pandey

> > > >> > @gro ups.com

> > > >> > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM

> > > >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Dear Suprakash ji,

> > > >> >

> > > >> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any

> > alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let

> > us know how you want to do it?

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and

> > Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have

> > this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon

> > connection method with your suggestions incorporated.

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Thanks & Regards,

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Punit Pandey

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh

> > <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Dear Punit ji

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us

> > know the basic conditions assumed during the test.

> > > >> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was

> > the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the

> > charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I

> > mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection

> > apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have

> > exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in

> > this way?

> > > >> >

> > > >> > If not, then the test has no relevance.

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Regards

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Suprakash

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > -

> > > >> > Punit Pandey

> > > >> > @gro ups.com

> > > >> > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM

> > > >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Dear Suresh ji,

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Please see your post (http://groups. / / group/k_p_

> > system/message/ 30047). I quote -

> > > >> >

> > > >> > 1. " In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is

> > practicable as well as logical. "

> > > >> > 2. " Suggesting further research in this matter is like

> > re-inventing the wheel. "

> > > >> > 3. " When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as

> > best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist

> > further research on the subject is surprising. "

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method " most often " and

> > the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file

> > section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely

> > but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is

> > the reason I say that we should not " blindly " follow even Stalwarts.

> > Your opinion (point no.. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend

> > following them " blindly " which also means following incorrect methods.

> > > >> >

> > > >> > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification

> > of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long

> > time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It

> > may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in

> > interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and

> > participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention

> > and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and

> > we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this

> > exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the

> > KP will win.

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Thanks & Regards,

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Punit Pandey

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@>

> > wrote:

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Dear Punitji,

> > > >> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have

> > obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this

> > method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw

> > nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem

> > to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so

> > many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data

> > will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident

> > if you have read subsequent post.

> > > >> > Suresh Hattangadi

> > > >> >

> > > >>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > See what's on at the movies in your area.. Find out now.

> >

>

>

>

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.

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>

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Dear Sir, Namaskar-Thank you very much for the given explanations.With due regardsSunaparanthaTW <tw853 Sent: Fri, 1 January, 2010 8:56:36 PM Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

Dear Sunaparantha ji,

 

1. The most important point is to apply it when the TOB is doubtful especially by the querist self, as mentioned by "If it is not available", and only then "Mysteriously God will help you ...".

 

2. The easy way of application is the one done in the 4 step method as follows.

 

If the sub-lord is among the RPs, it is supposed to be correct. If it does not appear in the RPs, the RP (planet), which is ahead or behind the original sub-lord is to be taken as the corrected sub-lord of the relevant cusp. The preference is to be given to the RP as per the order of priority given in the following point 3, if both planets ahead and behind the original sub-lord appear in the RPs.

 

Note: It needs to adjust the TOB once and forever to get the corrected sub-lord of the relevant cusp, and to recast the chart to get the corrected significators as per the corrected TOB in line with the corrected sub-lord.

 

3. Another guidance by our Guruji KSK is as follows:

 

"... I have repeatedly told you all, that for any single question, take the moment when you take that question for judgment, note down the Lords of lagna, star, rasi and day. They are the ruling planets at that moment. Take the first query if there are many, that his, if one wants to know the ascendant, 5th and so on, take ascendant. If one wants to fix up the seventh, 11th and so on take seventh. If one wants to know eight and six take 8th cusp. If one wants to know 11th, seven and five take 11th cusp that is the first one mentioned by the querist. Then this cusp falls in a sign and in a star. Note the Lords of the sign and star. They must be in the list of the ruling planets. Then note down the remaining ones. Either of the two should be the sublord you take the priority list: first lagna Lord: next nakshatra Lord: third rasilord and fourth day Lord. If day lord and rasilord happen to be the Lord of the lagna and star of the person, then the sublord

will be the Lord of the lagna and sub-sub Lord of the nakshatra, Constellation at the time of query. Thus you find the Lord of the sub. Invariably it comes correct.....

Thus, you fix the exact degree of lagna: if they wanted to know the position of lagna. If one wants to know the cusp of a house, proceed in the same manner and fix. "

-Guruji KSK, A & A September 1967 issue

 

Regards,

TW

 

@gro ups.com, Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha@ ...> wrote:

>

> Dear Guruji,

>

> I wish to make attention to the last para of the Msg,

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30250?threaded= 1

> and Reader 3 page 281

>

> Which says,

> //Note the sublord of the sixth (6th) cusp. This needs correct moment of birth.

> "If it is not available", then if you want to know the sub of the sixth, you

> take ruling planets at the moment when you have the urge to put the query.

> Mysteriously God will help you by eliminating the previous and the next sub to

> the one which you have to select//

>

> This statement for 6th Sub, does'nt make any connection with BTR and the quoted para is included in an interpretation of Disease in Reader 3. Further it says "Mysteriously God will help you by eliminating the previous and the next sub tothe one which you have to select"

>

> Could you pleae make an explanation for

> 1. How to arrive 6tth CSL thru RP?

> 2. If one need to select Lagna Sub, how it denote the previuos and next thru above rule?

>

> Appreciate an example on this, to show the way to BTR?

>

> With Due Regards

>

> Suanaparantha

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> TW <tw853

> @gro ups.com

> Thu, 31 December, 2009 8:44:33 PM

> Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

>

> Dear Friends,

> This non-RP based rule is nothing to do with the RP-based BTR recommending Pre-Natal Approach articles by late K.M. Subramaniam and his nephew Vikarai Ramamurthy.

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30250?threaded= 1

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30276

> Regards,

> TW

>

> @gro ups.com, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Bhaskar,

> >                     The Time of Epoch,or the exact time when the human egg is fertilised is approximately 273 days before the TOB...in most cases of normal deliveries.. .

> >                     Ms. Linda Goodman, in her excellent Book, "Love Signs", has written an article captioned

> > "A Time to Embrace"...in which she has said that ancient Kings were advised by their astrologers ,

> > shamans etc.,that the best time for the Queen to conceive was during the few hours when the Sun and Moon,are exactly at the same number of degrees apart,as they were at the Time of her birth.

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â It was later found by KSK and researched upon by K.P. Scholars,that the Ruling Planets

> > at the fertilisation (of the human egg,by the human sperm),were the very same at theTime of Birth (and also of one's death,too !)...in around over 60 % of cases...

> >                     Further research showed that at the EXACT Time Of Birth,the Ascendant sublord should the same or is in the same star of the Moon's Star-lord... (which can be extended to,depending upon the SW one is using to... Ascendant's sub lord and sub-sub-lord which should appear as the starlord and sub-lord of the Moon.)

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â This is the background for what is said by the late Shri M.P.Shanmugham in his very illuminating book...and perhaps what Mr.Dhirendranath was trying to say...

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â With kind regards,

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Yogesh Lajmi

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>

> > @ ..

> > Tue, 29 December, 2009 10:46:39 PM

> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >

> > Â

> >

> > Dear Mishra ji,

> >

> > Logic or not, is a seperate matter, but - Where do we get this rule in

> > most cases ???

> >

> > regards/Bhaskar.

> >

> > @gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra

> > <dhirendranathmisra wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear D.Senthil Sir,

> > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â // "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star &

> > Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"

> > > Â

> > > Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂ

> > the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG

> > ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂ

> > saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a

> > USLESS RULE ONLY. //

> > > Â

> > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Can

> > you once again shed some light on the above as to why we get in most

> > of the cases "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub =

> > Natal MOON Sub" even if there is no logic.Certainly in few cases the

> > above condition does not apply and necessity arose to find outÂ

> > perfect rule beyond doubt.

> > > With thanks & regards,Â

> > > Dhirendra Nath Misra

> > > Â

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > Senthil athi_ram@

> > > @gro ups.com

> > > Tue, December 29, 2009 5:59:23 AM

> > > Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > >

> > > Â

> > > Dear Members,

> > >

> > > The RULE,

> > > Â

> > > "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"

> > > Â

> > > Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂ

> > the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG

> > ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂ

> > saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a

> > USLESS RULE ONLY.

> > > Â

> > > GOOD LUCK!!

> > >

> > >

> > > D.Senthil

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --- On Mon, 12/28/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @

> > ymail.com> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > >Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @ ymail.com>

> > > >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > > >@gro ups.com

> > > >Monday, December 28, 2009, 6:54 AM

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >Â

> > > >Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting

> > recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3

> > minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the

> > different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth

> > time further for different ayanamsas.

> > > >With thanks & regards,Â

> > > >Dhirendra Nath Misra

> > > >Â

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>

> > > >@gro ups.com

> > > >Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM

> > > > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > > >

> > > >Â

> > > >Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But

> > trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an

> > hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who

> > has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look

> > at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready

> > to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark.

> > Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the

> > natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording

> > of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before I

> > pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise

> > I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon

> > is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the

> > time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect.

> > > >

> > > >Bhaskar.

> > > >

> > > >@gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>

> > wrote:

> > > >>

> > > >> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and

> > you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?

> > > >>

> > > >> Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note

> > the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery

> > room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested

> > ? Good.

> > > >>

> > > >> Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and

> > such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of

> > Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And

> > what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to

> > go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical

> > checking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, we

> > must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and

> > become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must

> > check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or

> > not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is

> > there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ?

> > Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?

> > > >>

> > > >> Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why

> > cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia

> > to predict ?

> > > >>

> > > >> If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be

> > able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of

> > astrology are we into ?

> > > >>

> > > >> And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think

> > whatever you predict will be right ?

> > > >>

> > > >> Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one.

> > He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power

> > of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.

> > > >>

> > > >> Bhaskar.

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh"

> > <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Dear Punitji

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection

> > with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual

> > time of first cry.

> > > >> >

> > > >> > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :

> > > >> >

> > > >> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A

> > > >> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A

> > > >> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A

> > > >> > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa

> > > >> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)

> > > >> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third

> > planet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned

> > orb with C

> > > >> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)

> > > >> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)

> > > >> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with

> > specified orb)

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Regards

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Suprakash

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > -

> > > >> > Punit Pandey

> > > >> > @gro ups.com

> > > >> > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM

> > > >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Dear Suprakash ji,

> > > >> >

> > > >> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any

> > alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let

> > us know how you want to do it?

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and

> > Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have

> > this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon

> > connection method with your suggestions incorporated.

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Thanks & Regards,

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Punit Pandey

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh

> > <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Dear Punit ji

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us

> > know the basic conditions assumed during the test.

> > > >> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was

> > the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the

> > charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I

> > mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection

> > apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have

> > exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in

> > this way?

> > > >> >

> > > >> > If not, then the test has no relevance.

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Regards

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Suprakash

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > -

> > > >> > Punit Pandey

> > > >> > @gro ups.com

> > > >> > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM

> > > >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Dear Suresh ji,

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_

> > system/message/ 30047). I quote -

> > > >> >

> > > >> > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is

> > practicable as well as logical."

> > > >> > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like

> > re-inventing the wheel."

> > > >> > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as

> > best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist

> > further research on the subject is surprising."

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and

> > the study found that the method doesn't work.. Please see the file

> > section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely

> > but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is

> > the reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.

> > Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend

> > following them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods.

> > > >> >

> > > >> > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification

> > of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long

> > time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It

> > may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in

> > interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and

> > participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention

> > and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and

> > we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this

> > exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the

> > KP will win.

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Thanks & Regards,

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Punit Pandey

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@>

> > wrote:

> > > >> >

> > > >> >

> > > >> > Dear Punitji,

> > > >> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have

> > obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this

> > method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw

> > nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem

> > to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so

> > many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data

> > will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident

> > if you have read subsequent post.

> > > >> > Suresh Hattangadi

> > > >> >

> > > >>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> > See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies. / session-times/

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies. / session-times/

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.

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Just for information,

 

How To Select Lucky Names Using K.P. Astrology

Oct 24, 2005 ... How To Select Lucky Names Using K.P. Astrology By Pandit. ....

should vibrate favourably with the benefic points of an individual's horoscope.

.... one signified by the Moon sub-lord, he will be imaginative and sensitive.

....

www.unexplainable.net/artman/publish/article_2151.shtml -

 

, Larrons Antony Raj <larrons_ars wrote:

>

> Dear members

>

> is there any thing called lucky name in kp

> initally i thought it (name no.) should signify the improving houses

> also it should not signify 6,8,12h

> should it signify 11h

> pls clarify

> larrons

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> Senthil <athi_ram

>

> Tue, 29 December, 2009 5:59:23 AM

> Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

>  

> Dear Members,

>

> The RULE,

>  

> " Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub "

>  

> Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you apply the above rule

for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in

the RULE then there is no point in saying different ayanamsas etc here to

justify the RULE. It is simply a USLESS RULE ONLY.

>  

> GOOD LUCK!!

>

>

> D.Senthil

>

>

>

> --- On Mon, 12/28/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.com>

wrote:

>

>

> >Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.com>

> >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >@gro ups.com

> >Monday, December 28, 2009, 6:54 AM

> >

> >

> > 

> >Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting recorded birth

time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3 minutes) only we can apply

the above rule.Besides this the different astrologers will have to change the

recorded/rectified birth time further for different ayanamsas.

> >With thanks & regards, 

> >Dhirendra Nath Misra

> > 

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> ________________________________

> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>

> >@gro ups.com

> >Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM

> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >

> > 

> >Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But trying to

find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an hour on either

sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who has come with his

horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look at us as if we have come

out of some mad house, because he is not ready to listen that his recorded birth

time can be so awfully off the mark. Especially I tried this once on a case

where I did not know that the natives father is himself an astrologer and had

made perfect recording of the birth time of this native who had come to me.

Thank God before I pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet

otherwise I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon

is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the time to

30 minutes ahead to make them connect.

> >

> >Bhaskar.

> >

> >@gro ups.com, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> wrote:

> >>

> >> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and you will

bring more respect on them with this excersise ?

> >>

> >> Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note the time

of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery room ? Is this

the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested ? Good.

> >>

> >> Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and such

topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of Birth, then who

has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And what is the sense of doing

astrology if this is the way we are going to go about checking matters ? This

means that we must do all physical checking before pronouncing whether a mother

will have child or not, we must ask her to get medical reports of her having got

impregnated and become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means

we must check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or

not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is there

between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ? Then what is

the astrologer doing astrology for ?

> >>

> >> Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why cant the

study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia to predict ?

> >>

> >> If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be able to

predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of astrology are

we into ?

> >>

> >> And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think whatever you

predict will be right ?

> >>

> >> Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one. He must

be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power of

discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.

> >>

> >> Bhaskar.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> @gro ups.com, " Suprakash Ghosh " <suprakash.ghosh@ >

wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Dear Punitji

> >> >

> >> > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection with

nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual time of first

cry.

> >> >

> >> > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :

> >> >

> >> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A

> >> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A

> >> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A

> >> > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa

> >> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)

> >> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planet C is

inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orb with C

> >> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)

> >> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)

> >> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with specified

orb)

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > Regards

> >> >

> >> > Suprakash

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > -

> >> > Punit Pandey

> >> > @gro ups.com

> >> > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM

> >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > Dear Suprakash ji,

> >> >

> >> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and

better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you want

to do it?

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon,

please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition

of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your

suggestions incorporated.

> >> >

> >> > Thanks & Regards,

> >> >

> >> > Punit Pandey

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <suprakash.ghosh@ >

wrote:

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > Dear Punit ji

> >> >

> >> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the

basic conditions assumed during the test.

> >> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the

genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts been

analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is that,

suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between moon star and

asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was

all the charts analysed in this way?

> >> >

> >> > If not, then the test has no relevance.

> >> >

> >> > Regards

> >> >

> >> > Suprakash

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > -

> >> > Punit Pandey

> >> > @gro ups.com

> >> > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM

> >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > Dear Suresh ji,

> >> >

> >> > Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_

system/message/ 30047). I quote -

> >> >

> >> > 1. " In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as

well as logical. "

> >> > 2. " Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the

wheel. "

> >> > 3. " When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited

and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on

the subject is surprising. "

> >> >

> >> > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method " most often " and the study

found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file section and you can get

the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study found is just

opposite. The method doesn't work. That is the reason I say that we should not

" blindly " follow even Stalwarts. Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just

opposite and you recommend following them " blindly " which also means following

incorrect methods.

> >> >

> >> > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of

available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long time, now

fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may not be in

interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of KP. Instead of

appreciating this verification process and participating in it, I wounder why

people are trying to divert attention and making forum loose focus. This is

first exercise of this scale and we all must participate in it and make it

successful. At the end of this exercise, we will know which methods work and

which doesn't. Finally the KP will win.

> >> >

> >> > Thanks & Regards,

> >> >

> >> > Punit Pandey

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@> wrote:

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > Dear Punitji,

> >> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not

read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But

again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years

experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his experience.My

only point is research done in so many directions may not be conclusive.Apart

from this same set of data will be interpreted differently by different people

as will be evident if you have read subsequent post.

> >> > Suresh Hattangadi

> >> >

> >>

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.

http://in./

>

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Dear Punit ji,

 

As the reference for 'BTR Method 8 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham' is misquoted from your

Wiki, and

 

Mr. M.P. Shanmugam didn't say this method anywhere (in the 'K.P. & Astrology,

Part I' written by him, and 'Part II' edited by Mr. K. Subramaniam where Mr.

M.P. Shanmugamh's BTR article appears (pp 80-85, 2003 edition),

 

could you kindly make correction of the reference for BTR Method 8 in your Wiki

by the message below:

/message/17262?threaded=1

 

Thanks and regards,

TW

 

Method 8 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham

The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of

the Ascendant, if the Ascendant is correct.

Reference: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by

Mr.K.Subramaniam.

http://logy.astrosage.com/Home/recent-researches

 

 

, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra

wrote:

>

> Dear Tw Ji,  Please guide me if rules framed by Mr.M.P. Shanmugham apply in

the following charts or it is also imiginary :

> Method 8 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham

> The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord

of the Ascendant, if the Ascendant is correct.

> Reference: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by

Mr.K.Subramaniam

> [1] Male baby (Suyash)

> DOB-06th April,1998

> TOB-Recorded Time- 10:12AM[Recorded time of first cry]

> POB-Haldwani, District- Nainital

> Latitude-29N13

> Longitude-79E31

> K.P Ayanamsa adopted

> Asc-Sub lord= Moon sub lord=Venus

> Asc sub sub lord =Moon star lord=Mercury

>

> Other Birth Particulars,

>

> [2]Daughter was born in hospital- Time of first cry was recorded

> DOB-24th June,1995

> TOB-10:56PM

> POB-Basti,U. P

> Latitude-26N48

> Longitude 82E44

> Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Sun

> Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub = Saturn

> K.P Ayanamsa adopted

>  

> [3]My own

> DOB-20th April,1959

> TOB-08:15AM( Recorded Time) as noted in Janm Patri,Rectified by me as 08:15:56

AM for K.P Ayanamsa only.I think at that time watch was either slow by 56

seconds or watch had not hand showing time up to second.

> POB-Basti,U. P,India.

> Latitude-26N48

> Longitude-82E44

> K.P Ayanamsa adopted

> Asc sub lord=Moon star lord = Venus

> Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord =Saturn

>

> [4]Female,National Institute of Health,Washington D.C

> DOB-20.09.1977

> POB-Mumbai

> TOB-08:30:50AM

> Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Ketu

> Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub =Venus

> K.P Ayanamsa adopted

>  

> [5] K.S.Krishnamurty Ji

> DOB-01-11-1908

> TOB-12:07:30PM

> POB-Thiruvayuru

> Asc sub lord =Moon star lord=Moon

> Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord = Mars

> K.P Ayanamsa adopted

>  

>  Does there any rule apply? Does recorded birth time of first cry reveal any

rule or on what basis you can deny this time.More recorded time of first cry may

be collected,if required for study. 

> With thanks and regards, 

> Dhirendra Nath Misra

>  

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> TW <tw853

>

> Wed, December 30, 2009 6:51:01 PM

> Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

>  

> Dear Dhirendra Nath Misra,

> Could you or imaginer of this rule or anyone else kindly provide any chart,

for which this rule* is correct, in the whole published astrological literature

(Western, Eastern KP, Vedic in English, etc), to prove that it can be correct as

you are saying. 

> * as stated in the attachment

> Thanks and regards,

> TW

> Asc Sub = Moon Star & simultaneously Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule

> (What is this? How to be applied?  by Statements and Live Charts?)

>  

> Statements (1-6)

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 16098?threaded= 1

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 17262?threaded= 1

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20847?threaded= 1 & l=1

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22223?threaded= 1 & l=1

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22262?threaded= 1

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28249?threaded= 1 & l=1

>  

> Chart 1

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20694

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20759

> CUSP Sgl Stl Sbl Ssl :PLANET Sgl Stl Sbl SsL RULING PLANETS

> ASC Mar Sat Moo Ven :SUN. Mer Mar Mer Mer ASC STL :Sat

> 2nd Jup Ket Mer Mer :MOON Sat Moo Ven Ven ASC SGL :Mar

> (the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Moon & Venus, appear as the Moon's

star lord and sublord respectively)

>  

> Chart 2

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22473

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22482?threaded= 1 & l=1

> I am pleased to inform you that the exact Time of Birth works out  to :

> 00,00,16 A.M., on 12-04-1960.. .(used K.P.Ayanamsa only)

> Such that, the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Mars & Jupiter, appear as

the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively. .. !

>  

> Chart 3

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 23290

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 23309?threaded= 1 & l=1

> Rakesh's TOB requires a small correction.. .

> The exact Birth Time of Rakesh is 02-25-00 A.M.

> Kindly cast the chart for this TOB and check...

> (the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Mercury & Mercury, appear as the

Moon's star lord and sublord respectively)

>  

> Chart 4

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27814

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27822?threaded= 1 & l=1

> Your EXACT Birth Time,is 04-17-00. AM. IST.,as per K.P. System,using

Krishnamurthi Ayanamsa,and the late Mr.A.R.Raichur' s SW...

>  For this TOB,the sub-lord and the sub-sub-lord of your Ascendant,Mars and

Saturn,respectively will appear as the Moon's Star-lord and sub-lord

respectively.

>  

> Chart 5

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27631?threaded= 1 & l=1

> Kindly recall that as far back as on 12-10-2006,I had corrected your TOB be

EXACTLY, 10-14-30....

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28059?threaded= 1 & l=1

>  I am pleased to inform you that the TOB rectified by me was confirmed by Mr.

Gurmeet Singh...10-14- 30 AM. IST at Ludhiana...

> I have sent many a BTRs through this site...ALL of them have proved

correct,except perhaps a single exception...

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28061?threaded= 1 & l=1

> The correct birth time is 10:14:30 AM. Lajmi ji and I rectified my birth time.

> (the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Venus & Mercury, appear as the

Moon's star lord and sublord respectively)

>  

> Chart 6

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27685

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27706

> Kindly correct the Birth Time in the Chart,as per K.P., you will find a

different picture...as the TOB will emerge as 08-18-00. AM.

> Then analyse the IInd cusp for financial position/standing. ..

> CUSP   Sgl Stl Sbl Ssl  :PLANET  Sgl Stl Sbl SsL

> ASC    Ven Jup Ven Sat  :SUN.    Ven Moo Moo Jup     

> 2nd    Mar Mer Jup Moo  :MO    Jup Ven Sat Mer 

> (the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Venus & Saturn, appear as the Moon's

star lord and sublord respectively)

>  

> Chart 7

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28523?threaded= 1 & l=1

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28588

> Did you check whether the TOB is correct ?

> I have corrected the TOB,it is 18-29-00.

> CUSP   Sgl Stl Sbl Ssl  :PLANET  Sgl Stl Sbl SsL

>  ASC    Ven Jup Ven Sat  :SUN.    Ven Moo Moo Jup     

>  2nd    Mar Mer Jup Moo  :MOO    Jup Ven Sat Mer

> (the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Venus & Saturn, appear as the Moon's

star lord and sublord respectively)

>  

>  

>  

>

>

> @gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@

....> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting recorded

birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3 minutes) only we

can apply the above rule.Besides this the different astrologers will have to

change the recorded/rectified birth time further for different ayanamsas.

> > With thanks & regards, 

> > Dhirendra Nath Misra

> >  

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...

> > @gro ups.com

> > Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM

> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >

> >  

> > Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But trying to

find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an hour on either

sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who has come with his

horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look at us as if we have come

out of some mad house, because he is not ready to listen that his recorded birth

time can be so awfully off the mark. Especially I tried this once on a case

where I did not know that the natives father is himself an astrologer and had

made perfect recording of the birth time of this native who had come to me.

Thank God before I pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet

otherwise I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon

is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the time to

30 minutes ahead to make them connect.

> >

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> > @gro ups.com, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> wrote:

> > >

> > > Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and you will

bring more respect on them with this excersise ?

> > >

> > > Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note the time

of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery room ? Is this

the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested ? Good.

> > >

> > > Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and such

topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of Birth, then who

has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And what is the sense of doing

astrology if this is the way we are going to go about checking matters ? This

means that we must do all physical checking before pronouncing whether a mother

will have child or not, we must ask her to get medical reports of her having got

impregnated and become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means

we must check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or

not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is there

between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ? Then what is

the astrologer doing astrology for ?

> > >

> > > Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why cant the

study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia to predict ?

> > >

> > > If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be able to

predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of astrology are

we into ?

> > >

> > > And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think whatever

you predict will be right ?

> > >

> > > Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one. He

must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power of

discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.

> > >

> > > Bhaskar.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > @gro ups.com, " Suprakash Ghosh " <suprakash.ghosh@ >

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Punitji

> > > >

> > > > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection with

nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual time of first

cry.

> > > >

> > > > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :

> > > >

> > > > a) A in star of B and B in star of A

> > > > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A

> > > > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A

> > > > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa

> > > > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)

> > > > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planet C is

inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orb with C

> > > > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)

> > > > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)

> > > > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with specified

orb)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > >

> > > > Suprakash

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > Punit Pandey

> > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM

> > > > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Suprakash ji,

> > > >

> > > > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and

better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you want

to do it?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon,

please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition

of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your

suggestions incorporated.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks & Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Punit Pandey

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <suprakash.ghosh@ >

wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Punit ji

> > > >

> > > > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the

basic conditions assumed during the test.

> > > > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the

genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts been

analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is that,

suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between moon star and

asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was

all the charts analysed in this way?

> > > >

> > > > If not, then the test has no relevance.

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > >

> > > > Suprakash

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > Punit Pandey

> > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM

> > > > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Suresh ji,

> > > >

> > > > Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_

system/message/ 30047). I quote -

> > > >

> > > > 1. " In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable

as well as logical. "

> > > > 2. " Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the

wheel. "

> > > > 3. " When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best

suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further

research on the subject is surprising. "

> > > >

> > > > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method " most often " and the

study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file section and you

can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study found is

just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is the reason I say that we should

not " blindly " follow even Stalwarts. Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just

opposite and you recommend following them " blindly " which also means following

incorrect methods.

> > > >

> > > > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of

available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long time, now

fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may not be in

interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of KP. Instead of

appreciating this verification process and participating in it, I wounder why

people are trying to divert attention and making forum loose focus. This is

first exercise of this scale and we all must participate in it and make it

successful. At the end of this exercise, we will know which methods work and

which doesn't. Finally the KP will win.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks & Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Punit Pandey

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Punitji,

> > > > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not

read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But

again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years

experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his experience.My

only point is research done in so many directions may not be conclusive.Apart

from this same set of data will be interpreted differently by different people

as will be evident if you have read subsequent post.

> > > > Suresh Hattangadi

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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dear sir,

you can select the name according to kp astrology.lucky

names for which purpose is required. i am submitting effect of the alphabets signified by varrious cuspal lords.all planets are assigned

some alphabets.you can find them in any almancs(panchang).

if the first alphabet in a name is signified by the ascendent sublord,

the selfconfidance of the individual will be high.he will be undounted

in the face of difficulties in life & will have acommanding presence.

The persons appearance will earn him respect from others regardless

of status in life.

If the first alphabet in a name is the one signified by the moon

he will be imaginitive and sensitive.he will have sudden flights

of fancy.the vibration is excellant for writers & other creative people.The downside of this is that the person will have great difficulty in coming to decisions as he has two-pronged mind

that runs in an often impracticable & fanciful manner rather than logical manner.

If the first alphabet in a name is signified by the sublord of 3rd cusp,

the native will enjoy success in public relations fields.this ensures

fact that progress in life if person is involved in transport,news sevice,courier service etc.

If the first alphabet in name is signified by the sublord of fifth cusp

or the forturne,the person will be very lucky in life & will be able

to attract goodwill of everyone.

if the first alphabet in a name is signified by the sublord of 9th

cusp,he will have good success in higher education,will be able

to attain success in religious persuits & enjoy devine grace.

if the first alphabet in a name is signified by the sublord of 10th

cusp,it can give good success inprofessional life of the individual.

the person concerned will bevery duty concious & career oriented

in life.

if the first alphabet in a name is signified by the sublord of 11th cusp,

it can give good gain & friendship with large number of persons.

care should be taken to avoid the syllables/alphabet signified by

the sublord of the 6th,8th & 12th houses.unless there are other exceptions-like they also signify 5th house,fortuna or other auspicious points in the horoscope.

wish you GOODLUCK

shrikantjin.

 

 

 

Larrons Antony Raj <larrons_ars Sent: Tue, 29 December, 2009 6:39:09 PMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

Dear members

 

is there any thing called lucky name in kp

initally i thought it (name no.) should signify the improving houses

also it should not signify 6,8,12h

should it signify 11h

pls clarifylarrons

 

 

 

Senthil <athi_ram >@gro ups.comTue, 29 December, 2009 5:59:23 AMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Members,

The RULE,

 

"Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"

 

Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you apply the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point in saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a USLESS RULE ONLY.

 

GOOD LUCK!!

 

 

D.Senthil

 

 

--- On Mon, 12/28/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.com> wrote:

Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.com>Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.comMonday, December 28, 2009, 6:54 AM

 

 

 

Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3 minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth time further for different ayanamsas.

With thanks & regards,

Dhirendra Nath Misra

 

 

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>@gro ups.comSun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark. Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before I pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect. Bhaskar.@gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> wrote:>> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?> > Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested ? Good.> > Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical checking before pronouncing whether a

mother will have child or not, we must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ? Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?> > Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia to predict ? > > If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of astrology are we into ?> > And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think whatever you predict will be right ?> > Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs

to speak to no one. He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper. > > Bhaskar.> > > > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh" <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> >> > Dear Punitji> > > > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual time of first cry.> > > > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> > > > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A > > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> > d) A conj

B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orb with C> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with specified orb)> > > > > > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > > > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash

ji,> > > > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you want to do it?> > > > > > > > > > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your suggestions incorporated. > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > > > > > > > Dear Punit ji> > > > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the basic conditions assumed during the test.> >

Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way? > > > > If not, then the test has no relevance.> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >

> > > > > > > > Dear Suresh ji,> > > > Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047). I quote -> > > > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical."> > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel."> > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising."> > > > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study found is just opposite. The

method doesn't work. That is the reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts. Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods. > > > > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win. > > > > Thanks &

Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@> wrote:> > > > > > Dear Punitji,> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post. > > Suresh Hattangadi> >>

 

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.

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Dear Tw ji,

 

I guess you mean that the usage of Ascendant sub sub is not mentioned by Shanmugham ji and hence it should be -

 

" sub-lord of the Ascendant appears as the Moon's star-lord the Birth Time is correct upto the minute. "

 

Is it what you mean?

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 12:47 AM, TW <tw853 wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear Punit ji,As the reference for 'BTR Method 8 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham' is misquoted from your Wiki, and Mr. M.P. Shanmugam didn't say this method anywhere (in the 'K.P. & Astrology, Part I' written by him, and 'Part II' edited by Mr. K. Subramaniam where Mr. M.P. Shanmugamh's BTR article appears (pp 80-85, 2003 edition),

could you kindly make correction of the reference for BTR Method 8 in your Wiki by the message below: /message/17262?threaded=1

Thanks and regards,TW Method 8 by Mr.M.P.ShanmughamThe Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant, if the Ascendant is correct.

Reference: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.http://logy.astrosage.com/Home/recent-researches

, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra wrote:>> Dear Tw Ji,  Please guide me if rules framed by Mr.M.P. Shanmugham apply in the following charts or it is also imiginary : > Method 8 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham> The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant, if the Ascendant is correct.

> Reference: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam

> [1] Male baby (Suyash)> DOB-06th April,1998> TOB-Recorded Time- 10:12AM[Recorded time of first cry] > POB-Haldwani, District- Nainital> Latitude-29N13> Longitude-79E31> K.P Ayanamsa adopted> Asc-Sub lord= Moon sub lord=Venus> Asc sub sub lord =Moon star lord=Mercury

> > Other Birth Particulars,> > [2]Daughter was born in hospital- Time of first cry was recorded> DOB-24th June,1995> TOB-10:56PM> POB-Basti,U. P> Latitude-26N48> Longitude 82E44

> Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Sun> Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub = Saturn> K.P Ayanamsa adopted>   > [3]My own> DOB-20th April,1959> TOB-08:15AM( Recorded Time) as noted in Janm Patri,Rectified by me as 08:15:56 AM for K.P Ayanamsa only.I think at that time watch was either slow by 56 seconds or watch had not hand showing time up to second.

> POB-Basti,U. P,India.> Latitude-26N48> Longitude-82E44> K.P Ayanamsa adopted> Asc sub lord=Moon star lord = Venus> Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord =Saturn> > [4]Female,National Institute of Health,Washington D.C

> DOB-20.09.1977> POB-Mumbai> TOB-08:30:50AM> Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Ketu> Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub =Venus> K.P Ayanamsa adopted>   > [5] K.S.Krishnamurty Ji> DOB-01-11-1908> TOB-12:07:30PM> POB-Thiruvayuru> Asc sub lord =Moon star lord=Moon> Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord = Mars> K.P Ayanamsa adopted

>  >  Does there any rule apply? Does recorded birth time of first cry reveal any rule or on what basis you can deny this time.More recorded time of first cry may be collected,if required for study. 

> With thanks and regards, > Dhirendra Nath Misra>  > > > > > ________________________________> TW <tw853 > > Wed, December 30, 2009 6:51:01 PM > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >   > Dear Dhirendra Nath Misra,> Could you or imaginer of this rule or anyone else kindly provide any chart, for which this rule* is correct, in the whole published astrological literature (Western, Eastern KP, Vedic in English, etc), to prove that it can be correct as you are saying. 

> * as stated in the attachment > Thanks and regards,> TW > Asc Sub = Moon Star & simultaneously Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule> (What is this? How to be applied?  by Statements and Live Charts?)>  > Statements (1-6)> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 16098?threaded= 1

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 17262?threaded= 1> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20847?threaded= 1 & l=1

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22223?threaded= 1 & l=1> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22262?threaded= 1

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28249?threaded= 1 & l=1>  > Chart 1> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20694

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20759> CUSP Sgl Stl Sbl Ssl :PLANET Sgl Stl Sbl SsL RULING PLANETS

> ASC Mar Sat Moo Ven :SUN. Mer Mar Mer Mer ASC STL :Sat> 2nd Jup Ket Mer Mer :MOON Sat Moo Ven Ven ASC SGL :Mar> (the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Moon & Venus, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively)

>  > Chart 2> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22473> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22482?threaded= 1 & l=1

> I am pleased to inform you that the exact Time of Birth works out  to :> 00,00,16 A.M., on 12-04-1960.. .(used K.P.Ayanamsa only)> Such that, the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Mars & Jupiter, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively. .. !

>  > Chart 3> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 23290> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 23309?threaded= 1 & l=1

> Rakesh's TOB requires a small correction.. .> The exact Birth Time of Rakesh is 02-25-00 A.M.> Kindly cast the chart for this TOB and check...> (the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Mercury & Mercury, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively)

>  > Chart 4> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27814> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27822?threaded= 1 & l=1

> Your EXACT Birth Time,is 04-17-00. AM. IST.,as per K.P. System,using Krishnamurthi Ayanamsa,and the late Mr.A.R.Raichur' s SW...>  For this TOB,the sub-lord and the sub-sub-lord of your Ascendant,Mars and Saturn,respectively will appear as the Moon's Star-lord and sub-lord respectively.

>  > Chart 5> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27631?threaded= 1 & l=1> Kindly recall that as far back as on 12-10-2006,I had corrected your TOB be EXACTLY, 10-14-30....

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28059?threaded= 1 & l=1>  I am pleased to inform you that the TOB rectified by me was confirmed by Mr. Gurmeet Singh...10-14- 30 AM. IST at Ludhiana...

> I have sent many a BTRs through this site...ALL of them have proved correct,except perhaps a single exception...> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28061?threaded= 1 & l=1

> The correct birth time is 10:14:30 AM. Lajmi ji and I rectified my birth time.> (the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Venus & Mercury, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively)>  

> Chart 6> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27685> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27706

> Kindly correct the Birth Time in the Chart,as per K.P., you will find a different picture...as the TOB will emerge as 08-18-00. AM.> Then analyse the IInd cusp for financial position/standing. ..> CUSP   Sgl Stl Sbl Ssl  :PLANET  Sgl Stl Sbl SsL

> ASC    Ven Jup Ven Sat  :SUN.    Ven Moo Moo Jup      > 2nd    Mar Mer Jup Moo  :MO    Jup Ven Sat Mer  > (the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Venus & Saturn, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively)

>  > Chart 7> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28523?threaded= 1 & l=1> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28588

> Did you check whether the TOB is correct ?> I have corrected the TOB,it is 18-29-00.> CUSP   Sgl Stl Sbl Ssl  :PLANET  Sgl Stl Sbl SsL>  ASC    Ven Jup Ven Sat  :SUN.    Ven Moo Moo Jup     

>  2nd    Mar Mer Jup Moo  :MOO    Jup Ven Sat Mer> (the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Venus & Saturn, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively)>  >  >   > > > @gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ...> wrote:> >> > Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3 minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth time further for different ayanamsas.

> > With thanks & regards, > > Dhirendra Nath Misra> >  > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ... > > @gro ups.com> > Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > > >  

 

 

> > Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark. Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before I pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect.

> > > > Bhaskar.> > > > @gro ups.com, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> wrote:> > >> > > Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?

> > > > > > Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested ? Good.

> > > > > > Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical checking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, we must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ? Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?

> > > > > > Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia to predict ? > > > > > > If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of astrology are we into ?

> > > > > > And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think whatever you predict will be right ?> > > > > > Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one. He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.

> > > > > > Bhaskar.> > > > > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, " Suprakash Ghosh " <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:

> > > >> > > > Dear Punitji> > > > > > > > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual time of first cry.

> > > > > > > > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> > > > > > > > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> > > > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A

> > > > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A > > > > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> > > > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> > > > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orb with C

> > > > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> > > > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> > > > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with specified orb)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > Suprakash> > > > > > > > > > > > -

> > > > Punit Pandey > > > > @gro ups.com > > > > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> > > > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > > > > > > > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you want to do it?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your suggestions incorporated.

> > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Punit ji> > > > > > > > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the basic conditions assumed during the test.

> > > > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way?

> > > > > > > > If not, then the test has no relevance.> > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > Suprakash> > > >

> > > > > > > > - > > > > Punit Pandey > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> > > > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > Dear Suresh ji,> > > > > > > > Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047). I quote -

> > > > > > > > 1. " In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical. " > > > > 2. " Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel. "

> > > > 3. " When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising. " > > > >

> > > > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method " most often " and the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is the reason I say that we should not " blindly " follow even Stalwarts. Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following them " blindly " which also means following incorrect methods.

> > > > > > > > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win.

> > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Punitji,> > > > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post.

> > > > Suresh Hattangadi> > > >> > >> >>

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Dear Punit ji,

It needs to show not only the name of the book but also page number and year of

publication to make the reference sure and reliable, for instance in this case

it is not correct and misleading.

Thanks and regrds,

Tin Win

 

, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:

>

> Dear Tw ji,

>

> I guess you mean that the usage of Ascendant sub sub is not mentioned by

> Shanmugham ji and hence it should be -

>

> " sub-lord of the Ascendant appears as the Moon's star-lord the Birth Time is

> correct upto the minute. "

>

> Is it what you mean?

>

> Thanks & Regards,

>

> Punit Pandey

>

>

> On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 12:47 AM, TW <tw853 wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Dear Punit ji,

> >

> > As the reference for 'BTR Method 8 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham' is misquoted from

> > your Wiki, and

> >

> > Mr. M.P. Shanmugam didn't say this method anywhere (in the 'K.P. &

> > Astrology, Part I' written by him, and 'Part II' edited by Mr. K.

> > Subramaniam where Mr. M.P. Shanmugamh's BTR article appears (pp 80-85, 2003

> > edition),

> >

> > could you kindly make correction of the reference for BTR Method 8 in your

> > Wiki by the message below:

> > /message/17262?threaded=1

> >

> > Thanks and regards,

> > TW

> >

> >

> > Method 8 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham

> > The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and

> > sub-sublord of the Ascendant, if the Ascendant is correct.

> > Reference: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited

> > by Mr.K.Subramaniam.

> > http://logy.astrosage.com/Home/recent-researches

> >

> > <%40>,

> > Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Tw Ji, Please guide me if rules framed by Mr.M.P. Shanmugham apply

> > in the following charts or it is also imiginary :

> >

> > > Method 8 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham

> > > The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and

> > sub-sublord of the Ascendant, if the Ascendant is correct.

> > > Reference: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited

> > by Mr.K.Subramaniam

> > > [1] Male baby (Suyash)

> > > DOB-06th April,1998

> > > TOB-Recorded Time-Â 10:12AM[Recorded time of first cry]

> >

> > > POB-Haldwani, District- Nainital

> > > Latitude-29N13

> > > Longitude-79E31

> > > K.P Ayanamsa adopted

> > > Asc-Sub lord= Moon sub lord=Venus

> > > Asc sub sub lord =Moon star lord=Mercury

> > >

> > > Other Birth Particulars,

> > >

> > > [2]Daughter was born in hospital- Time of first cry was recorded

> > > DOB-24th June,1995

> > > TOB-10:56PM

> > > POB-Basti,U. P

> > > Latitude-26N48

> > > Longitude 82E44

> > > Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Sun

> > > Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub = Saturn

> > > K.P Ayanamsa adopted

> > > Â

> >

> > > [3]My own

> > > DOB-20th April,1959

> > > TOB-08:15AM( Recorded Time) as noted in Janm Patri,Rectified by me as

> > 08:15:56 AM for K.P Ayanamsa only.I think at that time watch was either slow

> > by 56 seconds or watch had not hand showing time up to second.

> > > POB-Basti,U. P,India.

> > > Latitude-26N48

> > > Longitude-82E44

> > > K.P Ayanamsa adopted

> > > Asc sub lord=Moon star lord = Venus

> > > Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord =Saturn

> > >

> > > [4]Female,National Institute of Health,Washington D.C

> > > DOB-20.09.1977

> > > POB-Mumbai

> > > TOB-08:30:50AM

> > > Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Ketu

> > > Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub =Venus

> > > K.P Ayanamsa adopted

> > > Â

> >

> > > [5] K.S.Krishnamurty Ji

> > > DOB-01-11-1908

> > > TOB-12:07:30PM

> > > POB-Thiruvayuru

> > > Asc sub lord =Moon star lord=Moon

> > > Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord = Mars

> > > K.P Ayanamsa adopted

> > > Â

> > > Â Does there any rule apply? Does recorded birth time of first cry reveal

> > any rule or on what basis you can deny this time.More recorded time of first

> > cry may be collected,if required for study.Â

> > > With thanks and regards,Â

> > > Dhirendra Nath Misra

> > > Â

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > > TW <tw853@>

> >

> > > <%40>

> > > Wed, December 30, 2009 6:51:01 PM

> >

> > > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > >

> > > Â

> > > Dear Dhirendra Nath Misra,

> > > Could you or imaginer of this rule or anyone else kindly provide any

> > chart, for which this rule* is correct, in the whole published astrological

> > literature (Western, Eastern KP, Vedic in English, etc), to prove that it

> > can be correct as you are saying.Â

> > > * as stated in the attachment

> > > Thanks and regards,

> > > TW

> >

> > > Asc Sub = Moon Star & simultaneously Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule

> > > (What is this? How to be applied? by Statements and Live Charts?)

> > > Â

> > > Statements (1-6)

> > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 16098?threaded= 1

> > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 17262?threaded= 1

> > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20847?threaded=

> > 1 & l=1

> > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22223?threaded=

> > 1 & l=1

> > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22262?threaded= 1

> > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28249?threaded=

> > 1 & l=1

> > > Â

> > > Chart 1

> > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20694

> > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20759

> > > CUSP Sgl Stl Sbl Ssl :PLANET Sgl Stl Sbl SsL RULING PLANETS

> > > ASC Mar Sat Moo Ven :SUN. Mer Mar Mer Mer ASC STL :Sat

> > > 2nd Jup Ket Mer Mer :MOON Sat Moo Ven Ven ASC SGL :Mar

> > > (the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Moon & Venus, appear as the

> > Moon's star lord and sublord respectively)

> > > Â

> > > Chart 2

> > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22473

> > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22482?threaded=

> > 1 & l=1

> > > I am pleased to inform you that the exact Time of Birth works out to :

> > > 00,00,16 A.M., on 12-04-1960.. .(used K.P.Ayanamsa only)

> > > Such that, the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Mars & Jupiter,

> > appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively. .. !

> > > Â

> > > Chart 3

> > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 23290

> > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 23309?threaded=

> > 1 & l=1

> > > Rakesh's TOB requires a small correction.. .

> > > The exact Birth Time of Rakesh is 02-25-00 A.M.

> > > Kindly cast the chart for this TOB and check...

> > > (the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Mercury & Mercury, appear as

> > the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively)

> > > Â

> > > Chart 4

> > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27814

> > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27822?threaded=

> > 1 & l=1

> > > Your EXACT Birth Time,is 04-17-00. AM. IST.,as per K.P. System,using

> > Krishnamurthi Ayanamsa,and the late Mr.A.R.Raichur' s SW...

> > > Â For this TOB,the sub-lord and the sub-sub-lord of your Ascendant,Mars

> > and Saturn,respectively will appear as the Moon's Star-lord and sub-lord

> > respectively.

> > > Â

> > > Chart 5

> > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27631?threaded=

> > 1 & l=1

> > > Kindly recall that as far back as on 12-10-2006,I had corrected your TOB

> > be EXACTLY, 10-14-30....

> > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28059?threaded=

> > 1 & l=1

> > > Â I am pleased to inform you that the TOB rectified by me was confirmed

> > by Mr. Gurmeet Singh...10-14- 30 AM. IST at Ludhiana...

> > > I have sent many a BTRs through this site...ALL of them have proved

> > correct,except perhaps a single exception...

> > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28061?threaded=

> > 1 & l=1

> > > The correct birth time is 10:14:30 AM. Lajmi ji and I rectified my birth

> > time.

> > > (the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Venus & Mercury, appear as the

> > Moon's star lord and sublord respectively)

> > > Â

> > > Chart 6

> > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27685

> > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27706

> > > Kindly correct the Birth Time in the Chart,as per K.P., you will find a

> > different picture...as the TOB will emerge as 08-18-00. AM.

> > > Then analyse the IInd cusp for financial position/standing. ..

> > > CUSP  Sgl Stl Sbl Ssl :PLANET Sgl Stl Sbl SsL

> > > ASC   Ven Jup Ven Sat :SUN.   Ven Moo Moo Jup    Â

> > > 2nd   Mar Mer Jup Moo :MO   Jup Ven Sat MerÂ

> > > (the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Venus & Saturn, appear as the

> > Moon's star lord and sublord respectively)

> > > Â

> > > Chart 7

> > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28523?threaded=

> > 1 & l=1

> > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28588

> > > Did you check whether the TOB is correct ?

> > > I have corrected the TOB,it is 18-29-00.

> > > CUSP  Sgl Stl Sbl Ssl :PLANET Sgl Stl Sbl SsL

> > >  ASC   Ven Jup Ven Sat :SUN.   Ven Moo Moo Jup    Â

> > >  2nd   Mar Mer Jup Moo :MOO   Jup Ven Sat Mer

> > > (the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Venus & Saturn, appear as the

> > Moon's star lord and sublord respectively)

> > > Â

> > > Â

> > > Â

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > @gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra

> > <dhirendranathmisra@ ...> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting recorded

> > birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3

> > minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the different

> > astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth time further

> > for different ayanamsas.

> > > > With thanks & regards,ÂÂ

> > > > Dhirendra Nath Misra

> > > > ÂÂ

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...

> >

> > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM

> > > > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > > >

> > > > ÂÂ

> > > > Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But

> > trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an

> > hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who has

> > come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look at us

> > as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready to listen

> > that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark. Especially I

> > tried this once on a case where I did not know that the natives father is

> > himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording of the birth time of

> > this native who had come to me. Thank God before I pronounced my verdict, he

> > told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise I would have lost face that

> > day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon is not having any StarLord or

> > SubLord connection so I have to shift the time to 30 minutes ahead to make

> > them connect.

> > > >

> > > > Bhaskar.

> > > >

> > > > @gro ups.com, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>

> > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and you

> > will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?

> > > > >

> > > > > Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note the

> > time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery room ?

> > Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested ? Good.

> > > > >

> > > > > Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and

> > such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of Birth,

> > then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And what is the

> > sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to go about

> > checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical checking before

> > pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, we must ask her to get

> > medical reports of her having got impregnated and become pregnant ? Why?

> > What is the astrologer for ? This means we must check for a girl who is

> > asking whether she will have love marriage or not- every evening go where

> > she goes, whom she meets, how much love is there between her and the boy,

> > before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ? Then what is the astrologer doing

> > astrology for ?

> > > > >

> > > > > Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why cant

> > the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia to

> > predict ?

> > > > >

> > > > > If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be able

> > to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of

> > astrology are we into ?

> > > > >

> > > > > And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think

> > whatever you predict will be right ?

> > > > >

> > > > > Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one.

> > He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power of

> > discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.

> > > > >

> > > > > Bhaskar.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > @gro ups.com, " Suprakash Ghosh "

> > <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Punitji

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection with

> > nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual time of

> > first cry.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :

> > > > > >

> > > > > > a) A in star of B and B in star of A

> > > > > > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A

> > > > > > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A

> > > > > > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa

> > > > > > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)

> > > > > > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planet

> > C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orb with C

> > > > > > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)

> > > > > > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)

> > > > > > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with

> > specified orb)

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Suprakash

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -

> > > > > > Punit Pandey

> > > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > > > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM

> > > > > > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Suprakash ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any

> > alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us

> > know how you want to do it?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon,

> > please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this

> > definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection

> > method with your suggestions incorporated.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks & Regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Punit Pandey

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <suprakash.ghosh@>

wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Punit ji

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know

> > the basic conditions assumed during the test.

> > > > > > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the

> > genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts been

> > analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is

> > that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between

> > moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt

> > conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If not, then the test has no relevance.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Suprakash

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -

> > > > > > Punit Pandey

> > > > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > > > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM

> > > > > > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Suresh ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_

> > system/message/ 30047). I quote -

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. " In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is

> > practicable as well as logical. "

> > > > > > 2. " Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing

> > the wheel. "

> > > > > > 3. " When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best

> > suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further

> > research on the subject is surprising. "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method " most often " and the

> > study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file section and

> > you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study

> > found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is the reason I say

> > that we should not " blindly " follow even Stalwarts. Your opinion (point no.

> > 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following them " blindly " which

> > also means following incorrect methods.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification

> > of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long

> > time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may

> > not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of

> > KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating in

> > it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum

> > loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must

> > participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we

> > will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks & Regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Punit Pandey

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@>

> > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Punitji,

> > > > > > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously

> > not read full comment where I have said you can test this method for

> > results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s

> > forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of

> > his experience.My only point is research done in so many directions may not

> > be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted

> > differently by different people as will be evident if you have read

> > subsequent post.

> > > > > > Suresh Hattangadi

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

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Dear Punit,

Mr.Shanmugham's book has even a separate chapter of SUB SUB and it's usage...what to speak of sub...? ! Part II,Pp383-385.1969 Edition.

With kind regards,

Yogesh Lajmi.

 

 

 

Punit Pandey <punitp Sent: Mon, 4 January, 2010 12:39:37 PMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

Dear Tw ji,

 

I guess you mean that the usage of Ascendant sub sub is not mentioned by Shanmugham ji and hence it should be -

 

"sub-lord of the Ascendant appears as the Moon's star-lord the Birth Time is correct upto the minute."

 

Is it what you mean?

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 12:47 AM, TW <tw853 > wrote:

 

 

 

Dear Punit ji,As the reference for 'BTR Method 8 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham' is misquoted from your Wiki, and Mr. M.P. Shanmugam didn't say this method anywhere (in the 'K.P. & Astrology, Part I' written by him, and 'Part II' edited by Mr. K. Subramaniam where Mr. M.P. Shanmugamh's BTR article appears (pp 80-85, 2003 edition), could you kindly make correction of the reference for BTR Method 8 in your Wiki by the message below: http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 17262?threaded= 1Thanks and regards,TW Method 8 by Mr..M.P.ShanmughamThe Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant, if the Ascendant is correct.

Reference: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.http://logy. astrosage. com/Home/ recent-researche s@gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Tw Ji, Please guide me if rules framed by Mr.M.P. Shanmugham apply in the following charts or it is also imiginary : > Method 8 by Mr.M.P.Shanmugham> The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant, if the Ascendant is correct.

> Reference: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam

> [1] Male baby (Suyash)> DOB-06th April,1998> TOB-Recorded Time- 10:12AM[ Recorded time of first cry] > POB-Haldwani, District- Nainital> Latitude-29N13> Longitude-79E31> K.P Ayanamsa adopted> Asc-Sub lord= Moon sub lord=Venus> Asc sub sub lord =Moon star lord=Mercury> > Other Birth Particulars,> > [2]Daughter was born in hospital- Time of first cry was recorded> DOB-24th June,1995> TOB-10:56PM> POB-Basti,U. P> Latitude-26N48> Longitude 82E44> Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Sun> Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub = Saturn> K.P Ayanamsa adopted>  > [3]My own> DOB-20th April,1959> TOB-08:15AM( Recorded Time) as noted in Janm Patri,Rectified by me as 08:15:56 AM for K.P Ayanamsa only.I think at that time watch was either slow by 56 seconds or watch had not hand showing time up to second.> POB-Basti,U. P,India.> Latitude-26N48> Longitude-82E44> K.P Ayanamsa adopted> Asc sub lord=Moon star lord = Venus> Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord =Saturn> > [4]Female,National Institute of Health,Washington D.C> DOB-20.09.1977> POB-Mumbai> TOB-08:30:50AM> Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Ketu> Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub =Venus> K.P Ayanamsa adopted>  > [5] K.S.Krishnamurty Ji> DOB-01-11-1908> TOB-12:07:30PM> POB-Thiruvayuru> Asc sub lord =Moon star lord=Moon> Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord = Mars> K.P Ayanamsa adopted>  >  Does there any rule apply? Does recorded birth time of first cry reveal any rule or on what basis you can deny this time.More recorded time of first cry may be collected,if required for study. > With thanks and regards, > Dhirendra Nath Misra>  > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> TW <tw853 > @gro ups.com> Wed, December 30, 2009 6:51:01 PM > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >  > Dear Dhirendra Nath Misra,> Could you or imaginer of this rule or anyone else kindly provide any chart, for which this rule* is correct, in the whole published astrological literature (Western, Eastern KP, Vedic in English, etc), to prove that it can be correct as you are saying. > * as stated in the attachment > Thanks and regards,> TW > Asc Sub = Moon Star & simultaneously Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule> (What is this? How to be applied? by Statements and Live Charts?)>  > Statements (1-6)> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 16098?threaded= 1> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 17262?threaded= 1> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20847?threaded= 1 & l=1> http://groups. /

group/k_p_ system/message/ 22223?threaded= 1 & l=1> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22262?threaded= 1> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28249?threaded= 1 & l=1> Â > Chart 1> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20694> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20759> CUSP Sgl Stl Sbl Ssl :PLANET Sgl Stl Sbl SsL RULING PLANETS> ASC Mar Sat Moo Ven :SUN. Mer Mar Mer Mer

ASC STL :Sat> 2nd Jup Ket Mer Mer :MOON Sat Moo Ven Ven ASC SGL :Mar> (the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Moon & Venus, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively)>  > Chart 2> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22473> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22482?threaded= 1 & l=1> I am pleased to inform you that the exact Time of Birth works out to :> 00,00,16 A.M., on 12-04-1960.. .(used K.P.Ayanamsa only)> Such that, the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Mars & Jupiter, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively. .. !>  > Chart 3> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 23290> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 23309?threaded= 1 & l=1> Rakesh's TOB requires a small correction.. .> The exact Birth Time of Rakesh is 02-25-00 A.M.> Kindly cast the chart for this TOB and check...> (the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Mercury & Mercury, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively)>  > Chart 4> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27814> http://groups.

/ group/k_p_ system/message/ 27822?threaded= 1 & l=1> Your EXACT Birth Time,is 04-17-00. AM. IST.,as per K.P. System,using Krishnamurthi Ayanamsa,and the late Mr.A.R.Raichur' s SW...> Â For this TOB,the sub-lord and the sub-sub-lord of your Ascendant,Mars and Saturn,respectively will appear as the Moon's Star-lord and sub-lord respectively.> Â > Chart 5> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27631?threaded= 1 & l=1> Kindly recall that as far back as on 12-10-2006,I had corrected your TOB be EXACTLY, 10-14-30....> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28059?threaded=

1 & l=1>  I am pleased to inform you that the TOB rectified by me was confirmed by Mr. Gurmeet Singh...10-14- 30 AM. IST at Ludhiana...> I have sent many a BTRs through this site...ALL of them have proved correct,except perhaps a single exception...> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28061?threaded= 1 & l=1> The correct birth time is 10:14:30 AM. Lajmi ji and I rectified my birth time.> (the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Venus & Mercury, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively)>  > Chart 6> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27685> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 27706> Kindly correct the Birth Time in the Chart,as per K.P., you will find a different picture...as the TOB will emerge as 08-18-00. AM.> Then analyse the IInd cusp for financial position/standing. ..> CUSP  Sgl Stl Sbl Ssl :PLANET Sgl Stl Sbl SsL> ASC   Ven Jup Ven Sat :SUN.   Ven Moo Moo Jup     > 2nd   Mar Mer Jup Moo :MO   Jup Ven Sat Mer > (the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Venus & Saturn, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively)>  > Chart 7> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28523?threaded= 1 & l=1> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28588> Did you check whether the TOB is correct ?> I have corrected the TOB,it is 18-29-00.> CUSP  Sgl Stl Sbl Ssl :PLANET Sgl Stl Sbl SsL>  ASC   Ven Jup Ven Sat :SUN.   Ven Moo Moo Jup     >  2nd   Mar Mer Jup Moo :MOO   Jup Ven Sat Mer> (the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Venus & Saturn, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively)>  >  >  > > > @gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ...> wrote:> >> > Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3 minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth time further for different ayanamsas.> > With thanks & regards, > > Dhirendra Nath Misra> >  > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ... > > @gro ups.com> > Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > > > ÂÂ

 

 

> > Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark. Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before I pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect. > > > >

Bhaskar.> > > > @gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> wrote:> > >> > > Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?> > > > > > Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested ? Good.> > > > > > Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all

physical checking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, we must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ? Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?> > > > > > Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia to predict ? > > > > > > If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of astrology are we into ?> > > > > > And after having known the time of the first cry, do You

think whatever you predict will be right ?> > > > > > Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one. He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper. > > > > > > Bhaskar.> > > > > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh" <suprakash..ghosh@ > wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Punitji> > > > > > > > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual time of first cry.> > > > > > > > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> > > > > > > > a) A in

star of B and B in star of A> > > > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> > > > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A > > > > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> > > > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> > > > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orb with C> > > > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> > > > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> > > > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with specified orb)> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > Suprakash> > > > > > > > > > > > - > > >

> Punit Pandey > > > > @gro ups.com > > > > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> > > > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > > > > > > > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you want to do it?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method

with your suggestions incorporated. > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Punit ji> > > > > > > > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the basic conditions assumed during the test.> > > > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat,

they have exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way? > > > > > > > > If not, then the test has no relevance.> > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > Suprakash> > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > Punit Pandey > > > > @gro ups.com > > > > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> > > > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Suresh ji,> > > > > > > > Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047). I quote -> > > > > > > > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical."> > > > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel."> > > > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising."> > > > > > > > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is the reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow

even Stalwarts. Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods. > > > > > > > > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win. > > > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > >

> Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Punitji,> > > > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post. > > > > Suresh Hattangadi> > > >> > >> >>

 

 

 

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Dear Dhirendra Nath Misra,

 

I have explained lot & many man-hours spent already. I am sorry to say that can’t explain again and again to the innocents. There are many Messages available in the forum as well as many verification studies/ documents by TinWin /Others.

 

GOOD LUCK!!!

 

D.Senthil--- On Tue, 12/29/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra wrote:

Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisraRe: Re: What is the correct birth time? Date: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 6:39 AM

 

 

 

Dear Bhaskar ji,

//The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3 minutes) only we can apply the above rule.//

With regard to above D.Senthil Ji has already replied as under :

 

 

 

Dear Members,

The RULE,

 

"Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"

 

Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you apply the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point in saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a USLESS RULE ONLY.

 

GOOD LUCK!!

 

 

D.Senthil

I have further requested him:

Can you once again shed some light on the above as to why we get in most of the cases "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub" even if there is no logic.Certainly in few cases the above condition does not apply and necessity arose to find out perfect rule beyond doubt.With thanks & regards,

Dhirendra Nath Misra

 

 

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>@gro ups.comMon, December 28, 2009 11:57:34 PM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Dear Mishra ji,//The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting recorded birthtime for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3 minutes)Â onlyÂwe can apply the above rule.//Please demonstrate the above statement by illustrating the above withtwo example horoscopes. I am unable to understand what great astrologyare we into that by shifting recorded birth time with few seconds we canmake any difference (Except for those cases where Cuspal sublordchanges) in the predictions. And in exceptional cases upto 3 minutes?Most of the cases will have time difference of recorded birth time andactual birth time within 2-5 minutes and not few seconds Sir.// Besides this the different astrologers will have to change therecorded/rectified birth time further for different ayanamsas.//Please xplain this. When we are talking in this Group, it is understoodthat apart from KP, we do not

talk about others. But yet, I request youto please explain your above statement with display of variousayanamshas, what is the intent of the above content ?regards,Bhaskar.@gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra<dhirendranathmisra wrote:>> Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shiftingrecorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this thedifferent astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birthtime further for different ayanamsas.> With thanks & regards,Â> Dhirendra Nath Misra> Â>>>>> ____________ _________ _________ __> Bhaskar

bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> @gro ups.com> Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM> Re: What is the correct birth time?>> Â> Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. Buttrying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half anhour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist whohas come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will lookat us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not readyto listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark.Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that thenatives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recordingof the

birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before Ipronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwiseI would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moonis not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift thetime to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect.>> Bhaskar.>> @gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>wrote:> >> > Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and youwill bring more respect on them with this excersise ?> >> > Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then notethe time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the deliveryroom ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested? Good.> >> > Then what is

the point of discussion of rectification methods andsuch topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time ofBirth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? Andwhat is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going togo about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physicalchecking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, wemust ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated andbecome pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we mustcheck for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage ornot- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love isthere between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ?Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?> >> > Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Whycant the study be so good that

one does not need all this parepharnaliato predict ?> >> > If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will beable to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type ofastrology are we into ?> >> > And after having known the time of the first cry, do You thinkwhatever you predict will be right ?> >> > Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one.He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his powerof discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.> >> > Bhaskar.> >> >> >> > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh"<suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > >> > > Dear Punitji> > >> > > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connectionwith nursing homes / docs and have

to volunteer to get the the actualtime of first cry.> > >> > > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> > >> > > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> > > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> > > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A> > > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> > > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> > > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planetC is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orbwith C> > > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> > > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> > > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,withspecified orb)> > >> > >> > >> > > Regards> > >>

> > Suprakash> > >> > >> > > -> > > Punit Pandey> > > @gro ups.com> > > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> > > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > >> > > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have anyalternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please letus know how you want to do it?> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc andMoon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we havethis definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moonconnection method with your

suggestions incorporated.> > >> > > Thanks & Regards,> > >> > > Punit Pandey> > >> > >> > >> > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh<suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Punit ji> > >> > > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let usknow the basic conditions assumed during the test.> > > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was thegenuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the chartsbeen analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean tosay is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparentlybetween moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchangedstars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts

analysed in this way?> > >> > > If not, then the test has no relevance.> > >> > > Regards> > >> > > Suprakash> > >> > >> > > -> > > Punit Pandey> > > @gro ups.com> > > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> > > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Suresh ji,> > >> > > Please see your post (http://groups. / group//message/ 30047). I quote -> > >> > > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji ispracticable as well as logical."> > > 2. "Suggesting further

research in this matter is likere-inventing the wheel."> > > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as bestsuited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist furtherresearch on the subject is surprising."> > >> > > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" andthe study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the filesection and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercelybut what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That isthe reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommendfollowing them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods.> > >> > > What we are doing is not further research but merely verificationof available methods. People who are marketing their methods

for a longtime, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. Itmay not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely ininterest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process andparticipating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attentionand making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale andwe all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of thisexercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally theKP will win.> > >> > > Thanks & Regards,> > >> > > Punit Pandey> > >> > >> > >> > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@>wrote:> > >> > >> > > Dear Punitji,> > > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviouslynot

read full comment where I have said you can test this method forresults.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji,s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to questionvalue of his experience.My only point is research done in so manydirections may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data willbe interpreted differently by different people as will be evident if youhave read subsequent post.> > > Suresh Hattangadi> > >> >>

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Dear Suprakash Ghosh,

 

The Rule is relataing the NATAL Chart data only.

 

GOOD LUCK!!

 

D.Senthil--- On Tue, 12/29/09, Suprakash Ghosh <suprakash.ghosh wrote:

Suprakash Ghosh <suprakash.ghoshRe: Re: What is the correct birth time? Date: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 10:12 PM

 Dear members,

 

In my understanding, the rule is RP moon star = Natal Asc Sub and RP Moon sub= Natal asc sub sub.

 

I may be wrong.

Lajmiji please confirm.

 

Regards

 

Suprakash

 

 

 

 

-

Senthil

@gro ups.com

Tuesday, December 29, 2009 6:17 AM

Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Memebrs,

 

//After all , the rule stated by Lajmiji is based on RP ............ ..//

 

To be very clear, It is based on Birth Chart RP only. The RULE is giving very simple relation between the NATAL chart data only. That is

 

"Natal Asc Sub = Natal Moon Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal Moon Sub"

 

Please refer files section Word file,

 

Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule.docx

 

& the URL given below.

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 16098?threaded= 1 http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 17262?threaded= 1 http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20847?threaded= 1 & l=1 http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22223?threaded= 1 & l=1 http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28249?threaded= 1 & l=1

GOOD LUCK!!

 

D.Senthil--- On Mon, 12/28/09, Subha <suprakash.ghosh@ cesc.co.in> wrote:

Subha <suprakash.ghosh@ cesc.co.in> Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.comMonday, December 28, 2009, 8:34 AM

Punit jiNo , it does not mean that.The relations are just to locate the most representative planet for star/sub lord of moon.After all , the rule stated by Lajmiji is based on RP and RP doesn't always indicate in a streight way. Even Rahu / Ketu may represent Moon star or sublord .Take my conditions as:A = RP moon StarlordB= Expected sub lord in Natal ChartIf A and B have relations as per the rules mentioned by me (please note and stress the 'AND' conditions), we should not blindly put A in place of asc sub lord. Instead, B, a planet not appeared as moon star lord may become strong contender for sub position as well.The same logic is for finding SS lord also.Hope I can clear your doubt.RegardsSuprakash@gro ups.com, Punit Pandey

<punitp wrote:>> Dear Suprakash ji,> > I do not understand how you will use point 'a' to 'h' in case of> ascendnat-moon connection rule?> > Does it mean that -> > Ascedant sub lord can be> 0) moon's star> a) in the star of Moon's star> b) in sub of Moon's star> c) in sign Moon's star> c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa [this is not KP, so> ignoring this]> d) Ascendant sub conjoins Moon's star> e) A third planet is in orb of ascedant sub and moon's star> f) ascendant sub aspects moon's star (vedic)> g) moon's star aspects ascedant sub (vedic)> f) ascendant sub aspects moon's star (vedic)> g) moon's star aspects ascedant sub (vedic)> > If my understanding is correct, at least in the case of ascendant-moon rule> it doesn't make sense because one of the above

condition will be always> going to be satisfied. So many rule, makes almost any time correct. You have> mentioned so many conditions.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Suprakash Ghosh <> suprakash.ghosh@ ...> wrote:> > >> >> > Dear Punitji> >> > *Collection of reliable birth data* : we need to have connection with> > nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual time of> > first cry.> >> > *As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :*> >> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A> > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg

for moon.merc)> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planet C is> > inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orb with C> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with specified> > orb)> >> >> >> > Regards> >> > Suprakash> >> >> >> > -> > ** Punit Pandey <punitp> > *To:* @gro ups.com> > *Sent:* Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> > *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >>

> Dear Suprakash ji,> >> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and> > better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you> > want to do it?> >> >> >> >> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please> > suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of> > connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your> > suggestions incorporated.> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <> > suprakash.ghosh@ ...> wrote:> >> >>> >>> >> Dear Punit ji> >>> >> Since the study was conducted long

a go, can you please let us know the> >> basic conditions assumed during the test.> >> Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the> >> genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts been> >> analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is> >> that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between> >> moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt> >> conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way?> >>> >> If not, then the test has no relevance.> >>> >> Regards> >>> >> Suprakash> >>> >>> >>> >> -> >> ** Punit Pandey <punitp> >> *To:* @gro ups.com> >> *Sent:* Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> >> *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?> >>> >>> >>> >> Dear Suresh ji,> >>> >> Please see your post (> >> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047). I quote -> >>> >> 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as> >> well as logical."> >> 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the> >> wheel."> >> 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited> >>

and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research> >> on the subject is surprising."> >>> >> *Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and the> >> study found that the method doesn't work.* Please see the file section> >> and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but> >> what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. *That is the> >> reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.* Your> >> opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following> >> them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods.> >>> >> *What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of> >> available methods.* People who are marketing their methods for a long> >> time, now

fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may> >> not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of> >> KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating> >> in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum> >> loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must> >> participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we> >> will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win.> >>> >> Thanks & Regards,> >>> >> Punit Pandey> >>> >>> >> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@.. .>wrote:> >>> >>>> >>>> >>> Dear Punitji,> >>> I have not

asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not> >>> read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But> >>> again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years> >>> experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his> >>> experience.My only point is research done in so many directions may not be> >>> conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently> >>> by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post.> >>> Suresh Hattangadi> >>>> >>>> >>> > > >>

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Late Shri Raichur said:

…..this small difference in Ayanamsa used by various KP astrologers does not

need to bother for a new comer, unduly. THE IMPORTANT ELEMENTS IN KP ARE THE

'STAR LORD AND THE SUB LORD'. In almost all cases, a slight change in the

Ayanamsa does ont change these important elements. A new comer should go to the

essentials, rather than worry about the technicalities of Ayanamsa. In fact, The

Times of Astrolgy publishes articles, which use Lahiri Ayanamsa, dif. of 6 min.

approx., and the KP SYSTEM of division (Placidus). I have found that in allmost

all cases, except borderline cases, the STAR/SUB Lords are same as the ones with

accurte Ayanamsas. THE 'SUB-SUB LORD' will change, as it is more sensitive.

 

 

, Senthil <athi_ram wrote:

>

> Dear Members,

>  

> When the shift in Ascendant itself is 4.5 Deg (18 Min) to 8 Deg (32 min)

range then there is no question of talking ayanamsa here. Most ayanamsa differ

in minute only not in Degrees.

>  

> GOOD LUCK!!

>  

> D.Senthil

>

> --- On Wed, 12/30/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi wrote:

>

>

> Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi

> Fw: Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

> Cc: " Suprakash Ghosh " <suprakash.ghosh, " tw853 " <tw853, " Senthil "

<athi_ram, " Punit " <Panday

> Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 11:16 PM

Dear ALL,

>                  Kindly read ALL the available K.P. books in

detail and in depth...and practise what is recommended and do not quote old

studies which were done with the Ayanamsa in use then,and compare thesame with

the working of the same data with New K.P. Ayanamsa...

>                 Therefore it must be made a rule that any

chart given must be accompanied by the Ayanamsa used...!

>                 Old and thoroughly discredited studies should

not be allowed to be mentioned over and over again...just to make a point to new

readers unaware of the past history...only to impress them...

>                 Punit, as the Editor,you should NOT allow this

at all,unless ofcourse you have an axe to grind...which I am sure you do

not...atleast till now...

>                 Also senseless comments from people who have

only a smattering of knowledge of K.P.., after having read a few books..and

virtually no experience at all,worth talking about,should NOT be

permitted...also those who harbour a destructive objective too ...

>                 With best wishes,

>                 Yogesh Lajmi.

>

                                        \

          GOOD LUCK !

>                    

>                    

>                      

>

>

>

> ----- Forwarded Message ----

> Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi

>

> Cc: Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish

> Wed, 30 December, 2009 9:50:34 PM

> Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

>  

>

>

>

>

>

> Dear Bhaskar,

>                      The Time of Epoch,or the exact

time when the human egg is fertilised is approximately 273 days before the

TOB....in most cases of normal deliveries.. .

>                      Ms. Linda Goodman, in her excellent

Book,  " Love Signs " , has written an article captioned

> " A Time to Embrace " ...in which she has said that ancient Kings were advised

by their astrologers ,

> shamans etc.,that the best time for the Queen to conceive was during the few

hours when the Sun and Moon,are exactly at the same number of degrees apart,as

they were at the Time of her birth.

>                      It was later found by KSK and

researched upon by K.P. Scholars,that the Ruling Planets

> at the fertilisation (of the human egg,by the human sperm),were the very same

at theTime of Birth (and also of one's death,too !)...in around over 60 % of

cases...

>                      Further research showed that at the

EXACT Time Of Birth,the Ascendant sublord should the same or is in the same

star of the Moon's Star-lord...(which can be extended to,depending upon the SW

one is using to... Ascendant's sub lord and sub-sub-lord which should appear as

the starlord and sub-lord of the Moon.)

>                      This is the background for what is

said by the late Shri M.P.Shanmugham in his very illuminating book...and perhaps

what Mr.Dhirendranath was trying to say....

>                       With kind regards,

>                       Yogesh Lajmi

>                     

>                  

>                      

>

>

>

>

>

> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>

> @gro ups.com

> Tue, 29 December, 2009 10:46:39 PM

> Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

>  

>

>

> Dear Mishra ji,

>

> Logic or not, is a seperate matter, but - Where do we get this rule in

> most cases ???

>

> regards/Bhaskar.

>

> @gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra

> <dhirendranathmisra wrote:

> >

> > Dear D.Senthil Sir,

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â // " Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star &

> Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub "

> > Â

> > Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂ

> the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG

> ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂ

> saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a

> USLESS RULE ONLY. //

> > Â

> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Can

> you once again shed some light on the above as to why we get in most

> of the cases " Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub =

> Natal MOON Sub " even if there is no logic.Certainly in few cases the

> above condition does not apply and necessity arose to find outÂ

> perfect rule beyond doubt.

> > With thanks & regards,Â

> > Dhirendra Nath Misra

> > Â

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Senthil athi_ram@

> > @gro ups.com

> > Tue, December 29, 2009 5:59:23 AM

> > Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >

> > Â

> > Dear Members,

> >

> > The RULE,

> > Â

> > " Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub "

> > Â

> > Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂ

> the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG

> ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂ

> saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a

> USLESS RULE ONLY.

> > Â

> > GOOD LUCK!!

> >

> >

> > D.Senthil

> >

> >

> >

> > --- On Mon, 12/28/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @

> ymail.com> wrote:

> >

> >

> > >Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @ ymail.com>

> > >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > >@gro ups.com

> > >Monday, December 28, 2009, 6:54 AM

> > >

> > >

> > >Â

> > >Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting

> recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3

> minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the

> different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth

> time further for different ayanamsas.

> > >With thanks & regards,Â

> > >Dhirendra Nath Misra

> > >Â

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>

> > >@gro ups.com

> > >Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM

> > > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > >

> > >Â

> > >Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But

> trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an

> hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who

> has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look

> at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready

> to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark.

> Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the

> natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording

> of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before I

> pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise

> I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon

> is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the

> time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect.

> > >

> > >Bhaskar.

> > >

> > >@gro ups.com, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>

> wrote:

> > >>

> > >> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and

> you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?

> > >>

> > >> Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note

> the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery

> room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested

> ? Good...

> > >>

> > >> Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and

> such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of

> Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And

> what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to

> go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical

> checking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, we

> must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and

> become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must

> check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or

> not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is

> there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ?

> Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?

> > >>

> > >> Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why

> cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia

> to predict ?

> > >>

> > >> If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be

> able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of

> astrology are we into ?

> > >>

> > >> And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think

> whatever you predict will be right ?

> > >>

> > >> Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one.

> He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power

> of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.

> > >>

> > >> Bhaskar.

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> @gro ups.com, " Suprakash Ghosh "

> <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:

> > >> >

> > >> > Dear Punitji

> > >> >

> > >> > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection

> with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual

> time of first cry.

> > >> >

> > >> > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :

> > >> >

> > >> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A

> > >> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A

> > >> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A

> > >> > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa

> > >> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)

> > >> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third

> planet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned

> orb with C

> > >> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)

> > >> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)

> > >> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with

> specified orb)

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > Regards

> > >> >

> > >> > Suprakash

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > -

> > >> > Punit Pandey

> > >> > @gro ups.com

> > >> > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM

> > >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > Dear Suprakash ji,

> > >> >

> > >> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any

> alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let

> us know how you want to do it?

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and

> Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have

> this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon

> connection method with your suggestions incorporated.

> > >> >

> > >> > Thanks & Regards,

> > >> >

> > >> > Punit Pandey

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh

> <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > Dear Punit ji

> > >> >

> > >> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us

> know the basic conditions assumed during the test.

> > >> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was

> the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the

> charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I

> mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection

> apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have

> exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in

> this way?

> > >> >

> > >> > If not, then the test has no relevance.

> > >> >

> > >> > Regards

> > >> >

> > >> > Suprakash

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > -

> > >> > Punit Pandey

> > >> > @gro ups.com

> > >> > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM

> > >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > Dear Suresh ji,

> > >> >

> > >> > Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_

> system/message/ 30047). I quote -

> > >> >

> > >> > 1. " In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is

> practicable as well as logical. "

> > >> > 2. " Suggesting further research in this matter is like

> re-inventing the wheel. "

> > >> > 3. " When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as

> best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist

> further research on the subject is surprising. "

> > >> >

> > >> > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method " most often " and

> the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file

> section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely

> but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is

> the reason I say that we should not " blindly " follow even Stalwarts.

> Your opinion (point no... 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend

> following them " blindly " which also means following incorrect methods.

> > >> >

> > >> > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification

> of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long

> time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It

> may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in

> interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and

> participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention

> and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and

> we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this

> exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the

> KP will win.

> > >> >

> > >> > Thanks & Regards,

> > >> >

> > >> > Punit Pandey

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@>

> wrote:

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > Dear Punitji,

> > >> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have

> obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this

> method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw

> nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem

> to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so

> many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data

> will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident

> if you have read subsequent post.

> > >> > Suresh Hattangadi

> > >> >

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

> See what's on at the movies in your area.. Find out now.

>

See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.

>

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