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Dear Bhaskar,

A reprimand ?

Not at all, far from it...it was a suggestion only...

With kind regards,

Yogesh Lajmi.

 

 

 

Bhaskar Maheswari <bhaskar_jyotish ; Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmiSun, 27 December, 2009 10:05:04 PMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

 

Sirs,

 

I was expecting this from Your goodself. Well,

the reprimand is taken in good spirits.

 

My intentions were never to claim that there is only 1 method mentioned in the books. Neither do I negate any method, except pointing out the inpracticality of certain methods which are a wee bit difficult to pursue in real Life, but which look good in writing. I am also not having any intentions of pointing out any mistakes in the books.

thanks and regards,

Bhaskar. Bombay. INDIA.

 

--- On Sun, 27/12/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.comCc: "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>Sunday, 27 December, 2009, 9:32 PM

 

 

Dear Bhaskar,

You have not understood K.P. correctly... .

For understanding K.P priciples/rules etc., first,you should unlearn Traditional Astrology... then study K.P., books with an unbiased and uncluttered mind,and understand it properly...not with the objective of pointing out what is wrong...

Neither I, nor any book on K.P., has claimed that there is only 1 method of retification of Birth Time...if you read for example,Astrosecrets & K.P., by K.Subramaniam,especially the chapter on Rectification of Birth time..many methods are given... I suggest you study them... I also draw your attention to the latest book Astrosecrets & K.P., Part IV...where these methods are discussed with examples...and then apply them carefully and then discuss the subject with me at length...

However, a majority of K.P.. practitioners depend heavily on the Ruling Planets method...

Till then,wish you the very best,

Yogesh Lajmi..

Yogesh Lajmi.

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>@gro ups.comSun, 27 December, 2009 10:22:32 AM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested ? Good.Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical checking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, we must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must check for a girl who is asking whether she will

have love marriage or not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ? Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia to predict ? If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of astrology are we into ?And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think whatever you predict will be right ?Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one. He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper. Bhaskar.@gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh" <suprakash.ghosh@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Punitji> > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual time of first cry.> > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orb with C> f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile

,with specified orb)> > > > Regards> > Suprakash> > > - > Punit Pandey > @gro ups.com > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> Re: What is the correct birth time?> > > > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you want to do it?> > > > > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your

suggestions incorporated. > > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <suprakash.ghosh@ ...> wrote:> > > > Dear Punit ji> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the basic conditions assumed during the test.> Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics.. What I mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way? > > If not, then the test has no relevance.> > Regards> > Suprakash> > >

- > Punit Pandey > @gro ups.com > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> Re: What is the correct birth time?> > > > > Dear Suresh ji,> > Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047).. I quote -> > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical."> 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel."> 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is

surprising."> > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is the reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts. Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods. > > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of KP.. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making

forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win. > > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@.. .> wrote:> > > Dear Punitji,> I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post.

> Suresh Hattangadi>

 

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Dear Members,

 

//Mr. Senthil ji has probably not read full sentence......the first part of sentence says "This is not true in all cases, is a fact" //

 

//Asc sub lord should be only one i.e. Sun, Moon etc depending on star lord of the Moon. This is not true in all cases, is a fact........but possibility cannot be denied logically. //

 

I have studied the full text but 'Mr.subhash ektare' has put the last statement contradicting what he agreed the fact, which I have marked in red color(refer above). So now he accepted that this RULE has got no logic will not work. I thank subhash ektare for his understanding.

 

//Does this mean that any analysis based on actual charts is always fabricated? To suit the conclusions one wants to put forth? Then what shall be the basis of research? This is serious allegation against all researchers.//

 

I have not told that he has fabricated the chart. The charts what he selected is 50 and 30min Case is only 2 Numbers only. So we can fill the charts as per our wish for example i can take 30 min case 95 charts and 5min 5 charts accordingly we can show the table.When the RULE is not working what is the point in shifting the time. It is simply generating % of errors only.

 

//The table of Subs given by Mr Senthil ji is for a particular place. Thus so called "No Birth Zone" will naturally be for that particular place only, and not for entire world. Because during that "No Birth Zone" places will exist (on whole earth) where Asc sub will be Moon star lord. In my opinion it is impossible to calculate "No Birth Zone" for world as a whole.//

 

I don't understand Mr.subhash ektare is talking with sense or not? Nowhere i have told latitude, longitude, time for the table. It is the simple SUB table for the first 120 Degree Sorted SUB wise and nothing in it. For the whole world our Zodiac is fixed(nirayana system).We have 27 stars & 9 Star lords only. Suppose if you take the MOON is in SUN star as per the subject RULE then wherever the degree position not having SUN sub lord will be called as "No Birth Zone" because as per the subject Rule, never ever fix the lagana in this range. So it is simple and 100% possible.

 

//Point raised was for complete zodiac (360 deg) because it has mentioned Moon position in Cancer/Scorpio/Pisces...........not in "No Birth Zone". Hence it was logical to find percentage compared to 249 subs.//

 

Your understanding is wrong. I have put the Question "How will you fix BTR for the person born with CANCER, SCRPIO, PIECES Moon sign with JUP as STAR lord & RAH as sub"

 

It is not for the zodiac(360) it is for the area where "NO birth zone" is wide and if you use the Subject rule The lagna itself will change to different sign though it is not the case.Have you not seen charts having Moon & Asc in Same sign-star-sub or one 1 or 2 subs away??

 

//You have selected 50 charts and showing actually 30% to 86% is ERRORS ONLY(by using the RBT rule). Today I really learned from you, how to FOOL the innocents (even clever) by showing one mathematical comparison table.//

 

Mr. Senthil's way of looking to the fact is different than me. I see the glass half full while he sees it half empty. I am sure the members are intelligent enough to decide who is FOOLING the innocents.

 

When the RULE itself WRONG you are unnecessarily shifting the birth time to Birth Zone(to suit the rule) and obviously the error is 100%.

 

Dear senior Members please tell me still this is not clear? So many man-hours wasted but nobody comments except few.

 

GOOD LUCK!!

 

D.Senthil

--- On Mon, 12/28/09, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare wrote:

Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektareRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?"Senthil" <athi_ram, Cc: punitp, lyrastro1, tw853, vgr_pavan1Date: Monday, December 28, 2009, 2:38 AM

 

 

Dear Members,

 

//From your statement can understand that for the entire world the birth ascendant Sub lord always happen to be MOON star lord!!!!. But there is no possibility in it.//

 

Mr. Senthil ji has probably not read full sentence......the first part of sentence says "This is not true in all cases, is a fact"

 

//You can see the study of AA rated charts as mentioned by Tin win in his various E-mails. For any RULEs we can always bring and present few charts to statisfy the required % as per our wish because in INDIA itself more than 100 crore people are available and getting charts is not a big deal. Even you can always do the same RBT exercise for the all AA rated charts presented by Tin win & others kept in our files section and same % may be brought. What is the point in it???//

 

Does this mean that any analysis based on actual charts is always fabricated? To suit the conclusions one wants to put forth? Then what shall be the basis of research? This is serious allegation against all researchers.

 

The table of Subs given by Mr Senthil ji is for a particular place. Thus so called "No Birth Zone" will naturally be for that particular place only, and not for entire world. Because during that "No Birth Zone" places will exist (on whole earth) where Asc sub will be Moon star lord. In my opinion it is impossible to calculate "No Birth Zone" for world as a whole.

 

//what you have taken is for 360 deg 249 subs.This is a simple math calculation. Here you have to take within one No Birth Zone. If you see the Duration/time wise can understand it well.//

 

Point raised was for complete zodiac (360 deg) because it has mentioned Moon position in Cancer/Scorpio/Pisces...........not in "No Birth Zone". Hence it was logical to find percentage compared to 249 subs.

 

//You have selected 50 charts and showing actually 30% to 86% is ERRORS ONLY(by using the RBT rule). Today I really learned from you, how to FOOL the innocents (even clever) by showing one mathematical comparison table.//

 

Mr. Senthil's way of looking to the fact is different than me. I see the glass half full while he sees it half empty. I am sure the members are intelligent enough to decide who is FOOLING the innocents.

 

I also do not have time and energy to continue this subject but I felt I should let the members know my views.

 

Regards

Subhash Ektare

 

 

 

 

Senthil <athi_ram

 

Cc: subhash_ektare; punitp; lyrastro1; tw853; vgr_pavan1Sent: Sat, December 26, 2009 11:50:32 AMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

Dear Subhash Ektare,

 

My replies are as given below.

 

//I agree with you that according to BTR Rule under consideration (Mr. Shanmugam's rule and subsequently modified by Lajmi ji)), for all births on a particular Moon star day..........Asc sub lord should be only one i.e. Sun, Moon etc depending on star lord of the Moon. This is not true in all cases, is a fact........but possibility cannot be denied logically. //

 

From your statement can understand that for the entire world the birth ascendant Sub lord always happen to be MOON star lord!!!!. But there is no possibility in it. You can see the study of AA rated charts as mentioned by Tin win in his various E-mails. For any RULEs we can always bring and present few charts to statisfy the required % as per our wish because in INDIA itself more than 100 crore people are available and getting charts is not a big deal. Even you can always do the same RBT exercise for the all AA rated charts presented by Tin win & others kept in our files section and same % may be brought. What is the point in it???

 

//In the table of sub, I could not understand the calculations for Diff. in Deg and Duration columns. So cannot comment.//

 

Diff. in Deg = Start of Next Same Sub- End of Current Same Sub=(No Birth Zone)

Duration for No Birth Zone = Diff. in Deg X 4 Min

 

I have noticed the ERROR in the Diff. in deg & duration for the last SUB of each planet except KET in my previous table which i have corrected and shown in BLUE color (Refer below given new part Table).

 

For Example take SUN sub

 

(1st KET sub End) = 00:46:40

(2nd KET sub Start) = 25:53:20

Diff. in Deg = 25:53:20 - 00:46:40 =25:06:40(=No Birth Zone)

Duration = 25:06:40 * 4 min = 01:40:27 Hrs(No Birth Zone time range)

 

//Possibility of Ascendant appearing in one sub earlier or one sub later than the position of Moon is 3/249 (three out of 249 subs) which is equal to 1.20% only. //

 

what you have taken is for 360 deg 249 subs.This is a simple math calculation. Here you have to take within one No Birth Zone. If you see the Duration/time wise can understand it well.

 

Take any birth happened in No Birth zone(that is ascendant Sub is not Moon Star).What you are going to do in RBT? Simply shift the ascendant to Birth Zone such that the time correction is very minimum/least.

 

Let us take the Maximum & minimum No birth zone of each Sub lord(Kindly note that the additional row in BLUE color text is the corrected value compated to the table given earlier-Regret inconvenience caused)

 

(Sub wise - part Table).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hr.No

 

Rasi

 

Sign

 

Star

 

Sub

 

Start

 

End

 

Diff. In Deg.

 

Duration (Hrs)

 

 

1

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

KET

 

00:00:00

 

00:46:40

 

25:06:40

 

01:40:27

 

 

68

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

KET

 

97:20:00

 

98:06:40

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

10

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

VEN

 

13:20:00

 

15:33:20

 

22:13:20

 

01:28:53

 

 

69

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

VEN

 

98:06:40

 

100:20:00

 

09:00:00

 

00:36:00

 

 

77

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

VEN

 

109:20:00

 

111:33:20

 

09:13:20

 

00:36:53

 

 

11

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

SUN

 

15:33:20

 

16:13:20

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

19

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

SUN

 

SUN

 

26:40:00

 

27:20:00

 

25:20:00

 

01:41:20

 

 

78

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

SUN

 

111:33:20

 

112:13:20

 

10:46:40

 

00:43:07

 

 

12

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

16:13:20

 

17:20:00

 

10:00:00

 

00:40:00

 

 

29

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

MOO

 

40:00:00

 

41:06:40

 

24:26:40

 

01:37:47

 

 

79

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

MOO

 

112:13:20

 

113:20:00

 

10:20:00

 

00:41:20

 

 

13

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

MAR

 

17:20:00

 

18:06:40

 

10:20:00

 

00:41:20

 

 

38

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MAR

 

MAR

 

53:20:00

 

54:06:40

 

25:06:40

 

01:40:27

 

 

80

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

MAR

 

113:20:00

 

114:06:40

 

10:40:00

 

00:42:40

 

 

14

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

RAH

 

18:06:40

 

20:06:40

 

09:06:40

 

00:36:27

 

 

47

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

RAH

 

66:40:00

 

68:40:00

 

22:40:00

 

01:30:40

 

 

81

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

RAH

 

114:06:40

 

116:06:40

 

09:26:40

 

00:37:47

 

 

15

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

JUP

 

20:06:40

 

21:53:20

 

09:20:00

 

00:37:20

 

 

56

 

RA3

 

MER

 

JUP

 

JUP

 

80:00:00

 

81:46:40

 

23:06:40

 

01:32:27

 

 

82

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

JUP

 

116:06:40

 

117:53:20

 

09:40:00

 

00:38:40

 

 

16

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

SAT

 

21:53:20

 

24:00:00

 

09:00:00

 

00:36:00

 

 

66

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

SAT

 

93:20:00

 

95:26:40

 

22:26:40

 

01:29:47

 

 

83

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

SAT

 

117:53:20

 

120:00:00

 

09:20:00

 

00:37:20

 

 

17

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

MER

 

24:00:00

 

25:53:20

 

09:13:20

 

00:36:53

 

 

75

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

MER

 

106:40:00

 

108:33:20

 

22:53:20

 

01:31:33

 

The least No birth Zone is 09:00:00 Deg (00:36:00 hrs) in VEN. The highest No birth Zone is 25:20:00 Deg (01:41:20 hrs) in SUN.

 

Case:1(Minimum -Worst Case)

======================

Assume a birth happened when the MOON is in VEN star and ascendant is at the mid of No birth Zone ( that is 04:30:00 Deg) simply you have to shift ascendant to Birth Zone with 00:18:00 hrs (+ or - 18 minute) correction which is the least possibility.

 

For VEN, the error possibility is equal to 50% (18/36) the correction required is (+/- 18min)

 

 

Case:2(Maximum -Worst Case)

=======================

Assume a birth happened when the MOON is in SUN star and ascendant is at the mid of No birth Zone ( that is 12:40:00 Deg) simply you have to shift ascendant to Birth Zone with 00:50:40 hrs (+ or - 51 minute) correction which is the least possibility.

 

 

For SUN, the error possibility is equal to 50% (51/101) the correction required is (+/- 51min)

 

 

All Cases

=======

 

When the MOON is in particular star,Consider only the births which are happened in No birth Zone and ascendants of those births are in a range(that is at the start of No Birth Zone to mid of No birth Zone).Simple you have to shift ascendant to Birth Zone with 0 Min to half of the No birth Zone duration.

 

 

 

The error possibility is equal to 0% to 50%( that is 00:00:00 Deg to 12:40:00 Deg ). For which the correction required is (+/- 0 to 51min)

 

**************************************************************************************************

So now you can select the charts as per your wish and present it. This is what you have done in the attached file. You have selected 50 charts and Justfying 86% for +/-30 minute correction. See the part table what you have given.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Time when Asc sub=Moon Str and Asc sub-sub=Moon sub

 

Within 5 Min +/-

 

Within 10 Min +/-

 

Within 15 Min +/-

 

Within 20 Min +/-

 

Within 25 Min +/-

 

Within 30 Min +/-

 

Beyond 30 Min +/-

 

 

Total Cases

 

15

 

8

 

7

 

7

 

4

 

2

 

7

 

 

Within +/-30min

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

43 (86%)

 

 

 

 

within +/-25min

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

41 (82%)

 

 

 

 

 

 

within+/- 20min

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

37 (74%)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

within +/-15min

 

 

 

 

 

30 (60%)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

within +/- 10min

 

 

 

23 (46%)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Within +/- 5min

 

15 (30%)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kindly note that in the above table "Beyond 30 min" column will never exceed 51min (Maximum case) so we can call it "Beyond 30 min upto 51min"

 

 

You have selected 50 charts and showing actually 30% to 86% is ERRORS ONLY(by using the RBT rule). Today I really learned from you, how to FOOL the innocents (even clever) by showing one mathematical comparison table.

I don’t have any personal feelings with any of our forum members including Shri Lajmi. I am opposing the RULE only. Just because of this one RULE we can’t underestimate anybody. Shri Lajmi is one of the JAMBAVAN (Senior most member age/experience wise) of this forum who has got vast knowledge in astrology and contributes lot to this forum members and I really appreciate it. His cooperation for VGR’s RBT exercise is highly respected.

I don’t have much energy to talk on this subject anymore and let us work together with VGR for the RBT exercise to find the way forward.

Note to VGR ========= Dear VGR can you please post the Quiz details for the members to participate. GOOD LUCK!! D.Senthil

 

--- On Sat, 12/26/09, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare wrote:

Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektareRe: Re: What is the correct birth time? Cc: "Senthil" <athi_ram, punitp, "Mr. Yogesh Rao Lajmi" <lyrastro1Saturday, December 26, 2009, 4:10 AM

 

 

 

Dear Senthil ji,

 

I agree with you that according to BTR Rule under consideration (Mr. Shanmugam's rule and subsequently modified by Lajmi ji)), for all births on a particular Moon star day..........Asc sub lord should be only one i.e. Sun, Moon etc depending on star lord of the Moon. This is not true in all cases, is a fact........but possibility cannot be denied logically. May be a good subject for research.

 

Mr. Lajmi ji uses this BTR method within +/- 30 min from the recorded time. According to me about 86% cases can be rectified within this range complying this rule. Please see attached file. However the birth time so arrived cannot be certified as correct/accurate unless VERIFIED. For this, the verification project being done by Mr. VGR Pavan is the only way to find most acceptable method(s).

 

In the table of sub, I could not understand the calculations for Diff. in Deg and Duration columns. So cannot comment.

 

Regarding point raised in URL /message/28959 ..........

Possibility of Ascendant appearing in one sub earlier or one sub later than the position of Moon is 3/249 (three out of 249 subs) which is equal to 1.20% only. This can be treated as exception to the rule or in failure percentage of the rule. In my opinion this cannot form the basis for the rejection of the rule.

 

Please note that I am not canvassing this BTR method but opposing the basis for its rejection. As Mr. Punit Pandey has mentioned verification being done by Mr. VGR Pavan is only correct way to select most acceptable method(s) in my humble opinion. Please note that Mr. Lajmi ji is also co-operating and taking part in the process.

 

Regards

Subhash Ektare

 

 

 

 

Senthil <athi_ram Cc: subhash_ektare; punitpSent: Thu, December 24, 2009 11:07:25 PMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

Dear Subhash Ektare,

You have put Very Good logical questions and I appreciate your findings. However let me rephrase my statements/questions as given below.

If we consider all the places within the band that is from 180W to 180E longitude & 65N to 65S latitude (ignoring the places where the people are not living most likely, example places which are coming on the Ocean/sea etc, - leave the few people who live in the boat/ship or sail etc) at any particular instant/time the entire 360 Degree Zodiac will be always occupied by the ascendants of the various places around the world. As mentioned earlier (Message ID# 29225) consider that the MOON is occupied in the SUN star and the time taken by the moon to transit the whole SUN star is approximately 29 Hours. If we assume that the MOON enters in the SUN star in a sign (where SUN star is present) on date DD-MM-YYYY HH:MM:SS Hrs GMT (DD-Day, MM-Month, YYYY-Year, HH-Hours, MM-minute, SS-Second) for discussion purpose let us assume the date 25-12-2009 00:00:00

GMT (don't see Ephemeris & ask next question there is no SUN star in this day) and if we take each and every people living places on the earth they will have transit of ascendant starting from Local mean time (LMT) corresponding to 00:00:00 hrs GMT to next day Local mean time (LMT) corresponding to 05:00:00 hrs GMT. For example, Places in INDIA which falls in 82.5Deg longitude irrespective of latitude consider the transit of ascendant from 25-12-2009 05:30:00 Hrs LMT to next day 26-12-2009 10:30:00 Hrs LMT Local mean time (LMT) Similarly we can consider for all other places also.

Now out of this 29 Hrs duration, the childbirth can happen ONLY when the ascendant is transiting in CHILDBIRTH ZONE (that is the ascendant position corresponding to sub lord is SUN) and there will not be any childbirth for the balance NO BIRTH TIME ZONE (that is the ascendant position corresponding to any other sub lord except SUN). Similarly we can consider for all other places also. Based on this if we workout the told childbirth for the 29 Hours duration approximately we will get 426560 births (at the rate of 353,015 births per day as per 2009 record given in Message ID#29164). The entire 426560 birth charts will have only SUN sub as ascendant and not even Single Chart/birth will have other than SUN sub (that is, KET, VEN, MOO, MAR, RAH, JUP, SAT & MER). Similarly for next block of succeeding 29(say) hours the entire 426560 birth charts will

have only MOO sub as ascendant and not even Single Chart/birth will have other than MOO sub (that is KET, VEN, SUN, MAR, RAH, JUP, SAT & MER) because the MOO must have moved to the next star that it’s own star (MOON star).

This shows that there is a sequence of Birth should happen around the world as well as there should not be any other planets happened to be the ascendant Sub lord except the one (Moon Star lord) within the block of time (29 Hours). IS THIS POSSIBLE???? Secondly, let us look at the Table given below (Sorted in Ascending Order Sub wise for the first 120 Deg of the Zodiac)

 

 

 

Hr.No

 

Rasi

 

Sign

 

Star

 

Sub

 

Start

 

End

 

Diff. In Deg.

 

Duration (Hrs)

 

 

1

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

KET

 

00:00:00

 

00:46:40

 

25:06:40

 

01:40:27

 

 

18

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

KET

 

25:53:20

 

26:40:00

 

10:20:00

 

00:41:20

 

 

27

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

SUN

 

KET

 

37:00:00

 

37:46:40

 

11:53:20

 

00:47:33

 

 

35

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

KET

 

49:40:00

 

50:26:40

 

11:26:40

 

00:45:47

 

 

43

 

RA3

 

MER

 

MAR

 

KET

 

61:53:20

 

62:40:00

 

11:46:40

 

00:47:07

 

 

51

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

KET

 

74:26:40

 

75:13:20

 

10:33:20

 

00:42:13

 

 

59

 

RA3

 

MER

 

JUP

 

KET

 

85:46:40

 

86:33:20

 

10:46:40

 

00:43:07

 

 

68

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

KET

 

97:20:00

 

98:06:40

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

76

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

KET

 

108:33:20

 

109:20:00

 

10:40:00

 

00:42:40

 

 

2

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

VEN

 

00:46:40

 

03:00:00

 

10:20:00

 

00:41:20

 

 

10

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

VEN

 

13:20:00

 

15:33:20

 

22:13:20

 

01:28:53

 

 

28

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

SUN

 

VEN

 

37:46:40

 

40:00:00

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

36

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

VEN

 

50:26:40

 

52:40:00

 

10:00:00

 

00:40:00

 

 

44

 

RA3

 

MER

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

62:40:00

 

64:53:20

 

10:20:00

 

00:41:20

 

 

52

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

VEN

 

75:13:20

 

77:26:40

 

09:06:40

 

00:36:27

 

 

60

 

RA3

 

MER

 

JUP

 

VEN

 

86:33:20

 

88:46:40

 

09:20:00

 

00:37:20

 

 

69

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

VEN

 

98:06:40

 

100:20:00

 

09:00:00

 

00:36:00

 

 

77

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

VEN

 

109:20:00

 

111:33:20

 

08:26:40

 

00:33:47

 

 

3

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

SUN

 

03:00:00

 

03:40:00

 

11:53:20

 

00:47:33

 

 

11

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

SUN

 

15:33:20

 

16:13:20

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

19

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

SUN

 

SUN

 

26:40:00

 

27:20:00

 

25:20:00

 

01:41:20

 

 

37

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

SUN

 

52:40:00

 

53:20:00

 

11:33:20

 

00:46:13

 

 

45

 

RA3

 

MER

 

MAR

 

SUN

 

64:53:20

 

65:33:20

 

11:53:20

 

00:47:33

 

 

53

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

SUN

 

77:26:40

 

78:06:40

 

10:40:00

 

00:42:40

 

 

61

 

RA3

 

MER

 

JUP

 

SUN

 

88:46:40

 

89:26:40

 

10:53:20

 

00:43:33

 

 

70

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

SUN

 

100:20:00

 

101:00:00

 

10:33:20

 

00:42:13

 

 

78

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

SUN

 

111:33:20

 

112:13:20

 

07:46:40

 

00:31:07

 

 

4

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

MOO

 

03:40:00

 

04:46:40

 

11:26:40

 

00:45:47

 

 

12

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

16:13:20

 

17:20:00

 

10:00:00

 

00:40:00

 

 

20

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

SUN

 

MOO

 

27:20:00

 

28:26:40

 

11:33:20

 

00:46:13

 

 

29

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

MOO

 

40:00:00

 

41:06:40

 

24:26:40

 

01:37:47

 

 

46

 

RA3

 

MER

 

MAR

 

MOO

 

65:33:20

 

66:40:00

 

11:26:40

 

00:45:47

 

 

54

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

MOO

 

78:06:40

 

79:13:20

 

10:13:20

 

00:40:53

 

 

62

 

RA3

 

MER

 

JUP

 

MOO

 

89:26:40

 

90:00:00

 

00:00:00

 

00:00:00

 

 

63

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

JUP

 

MOO

 

90:00:00

 

90:33:20

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

71

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

MOO

 

101:00:00

 

102:06:40

 

10:06:40

 

00:40:27

 

 

79

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

MOO

 

112:13:20

 

113:20:00

 

06:40:00

 

00:26:40

 

 

5

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

MAR

 

04:46:40

 

05:33:20

 

11:46:40

 

00:47:07

 

 

13

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

MAR

 

17:20:00

 

18:06:40

 

10:20:00

 

00:41:20

 

 

21

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

SUN

 

MAR

 

28:26:40

 

29:13:20

 

11:53:20

 

00:47:33

 

 

30

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

MAR

 

41:06:40

 

41:53:20

 

11:26:40

 

00:45:47

 

 

38

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MAR

 

MAR

 

53:20:00

 

54:06:40

 

25:06:40

 

01:40:27

 

 

55

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

MAR

 

79:13:20

 

80:00:00

 

10:33:20

 

00:42:13

 

 

64

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

JUP

 

MAR

 

90:33:20

 

91:20:00

 

10:46:40

 

00:43:07

 

 

72

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

MAR

 

102:06:40

 

102:53:20

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

80

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

MAR

 

113:20:00

 

114:06:40

 

05:53:20

 

00:23:33

 

 

6

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

RAH

 

05:33:20

 

07:33:20

 

10:33:20

 

00:42:13

 

 

14

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

RAH

 

18:06:40

 

20:06:40

 

09:06:40

 

00:36:27

 

 

22

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

SUN

 

RAH

 

29:13:20

 

30:00:00

 

00:00:00

 

00:00:00

 

 

23

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

SUN

 

RAH

 

30:00:00

 

31:13:20

 

10:40:00

 

00:42:40

 

 

31

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

RAH

 

41:53:20

 

43:53:20

 

10:13:20

 

00:40:53

 

 

39

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MAR

 

RAH

 

54:06:40

 

56:06:40

 

10:33:20

 

00:42:13

 

 

47

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

RAH

 

66:40:00

 

68:40:00

 

22:40:00

 

01:30:40

 

 

65

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

JUP

 

RAH

 

91:20:00

 

93:20:00

 

09:33:20

 

00:38:13

 

 

73

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

RAH

 

102:53:20

 

104:53:20

 

09:13:20

 

00:36:53

 

 

81

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

RAH

 

114:06:40

 

116:06:40

 

03:53:20

 

00:15:33

 

 

7

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

JUP

 

07:33:20

 

09:20:00

 

10:46:40

 

00:43:07

 

 

15

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

JUP

 

20:06:40

 

21:53:20

 

09:20:00

 

00:37:20

 

 

24

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

SUN

 

JUP

 

31:13:20

 

33:00:00

 

10:53:20

 

00:43:33

 

 

32

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

JUP

 

43:53:20

 

45:40:00

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

40

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MAR

 

JUP

 

56:06:40

 

57:53:20

 

10:46:40

 

00:43:07

 

 

48

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

JUP

 

68:40:00

 

70:26:40

 

09:33:20

 

00:38:13

 

 

56

 

RA3

 

MER

 

JUP

 

JUP

 

80:00:00

 

81:46:40

 

23:06:40

 

01:32:27

 

 

74

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

JUP

 

104:53:20

 

106:40:00

 

09:26:40

 

00:37:47

 

 

82

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

JUP

 

116:06:40

 

117:53:20

 

02:06:40

 

00:08:27

 

 

8

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

SAT

 

09:20:00

 

11:26:40

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

16

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

SAT

 

21:53:20

 

24:00:00

 

09:00:00

 

00:36:00

 

 

25

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

SUN

 

SAT

 

33:00:00

 

35:06:40

 

10:33:20

 

00:42:13

 

 

33

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

45:40:00

 

47:46:40

 

10:06:40

 

00:40:27

 

 

41

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MAR

 

SAT

 

57:53:20

 

60:00:00

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

49

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

SAT

 

70:26:40

 

72:33:20

 

09:13:20

 

00:36:53

 

 

57

 

RA3

 

MER

 

JUP

 

SAT

 

81:46:40

 

83:53:20

 

09:26:40

 

00:37:47

 

 

66

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

SAT

 

93:20:00

 

95:26:40

 

22:26:40

 

01:29:47

 

 

83

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

SAT

 

117:53:20

 

120:00:00

 

00:00:00

 

00:00:00

 

 

9

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

MER

 

11:26:40

 

13:20:00

 

10:40:00

 

00:42:40

 

 

17

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

MER

 

24:00:00

 

25:53:20

 

09:13:20

 

00:36:53

 

 

26

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

SUN

 

MER

 

35:06:40

 

37:00:00

 

10:46:40

 

00:43:07

 

 

34

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

MER

 

47:46:40

 

49:40:00

 

10:20:00

 

00:41:20

 

 

42

 

RA3

 

MER

 

MAR

 

MER

 

60:00:00

 

61:53:20

 

10:40:00

 

00:42:40

 

 

50

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

MER

 

72:33:20

 

74:26:40

 

09:26:40

 

00:37:47

 

 

58

 

RA3

 

MER

 

JUP

 

MER

 

83:53:20

 

85:46:40

 

09:40:00

 

00:38:40

 

 

67

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

MER

 

95:26:40

 

97:20:00

 

09:20:00

 

00:37:20

 

 

75

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

MER

 

106:40:00

 

108:33:20

 

11:26:40

 

00:45:47

Let us consider that the MOON is occupied in the SUN star as mentioned above with the position (say 27:20:00 SUN Star MOO-Sub). The Balance degree in the star works out to 12:40:00. So the ascendant for all the places around the world will complete one full circle that is 360 Degree at the same time the MOON might have completed 11 Degree only with balance of 1:40:00 in the same star. Whenever the ascendant of any place around the world comes closer to the MOON position within the proximity range for about 25:20:00 Degrees corresponding to 01:41:20 hrs (refer above table Hr.No 19 - maximum case) and 07:46:40 Degrees corresponding to 00:31:07 hrs (refer above table Hr.No 78 - minimum case) there should not be any birth to happen in those places except other locations where the ascendant is not closer to the MOON position within the proximity range. This

means that for any birth chart the ascendant and MOON position will never be conjoined within this 25:20:00 Degrees (Max. Case) to 07:46:40 Degrees (Min case) orb except the special case Rapt Conjunction (0 to 00:40:00 Deg) when the MOON is in the same star & Sub (say SUN Star SUN Sub). This indicates that there is always an offset in the birth time for about 00:31:07 hrs to 01:41:20 hrs except for the Special case.

This shows that there is a sequence of Birth should happen around the world whenever the ascendant of any place around the world comes closer to the MOON position within the proximity range except other places. IS THIS POSSIBLE????

For Example:

How will you fix BTR for the person born with CANCER, SCRPIO, PIECES Moon sign with JUP as STAR lord & RAH as sub whose ascendant also in the same Sign-star-sub or just one sub offset (plus+ or minus-) position? (This point was already raised in the below mentioned URL)

/message/28959

 

 

 

Hr.No.

 

Sgn:Str:Sub

 

Degree

 

 

56

 

MER:JUP:JUP

 

080:00:00

 

 

57

 

MER:JUP:SAT

 

081:46:40

 

 

58

 

MER:JUP:MER

 

083:53:20

 

 

59

 

MER:JUP:KET

 

085:46:40

 

 

60

 

MER:JUP:VEN

 

086:33:20

 

 

61

 

MER:JUP:SUN

 

088:46:40

 

 

62

 

MER:JUP:MOO

 

089:26:40

 

 

63

 

MOO:JUP:MOO

 

090:00:00

 

 

64

 

MOO:JUP:MAR

 

090:33:20

 

 

65

 

MOO:JUP:RAH

 

091:20:00

 

 

66

 

MOO:SAT:SAT

 

093:20:00

 

 

67

 

MOO:SAT:MER

 

095:26:40

 

 

68

 

MOO:SAT:KET

 

097:20:00

 

 

69

 

MOO:SAT:VEN

 

098:06:40

 

 

70

 

MOO:SAT:SUN

 

100:20:00

 

 

71

 

MOO:SAT:MOO

 

101:00:00

 

 

72

 

MOO:SAT:MAR

 

102:06:40

 

 

73

 

MOO:SAT:RAH

 

102:53:20

 

 

74

 

MOO:SAT:JUP

 

104:53:20

If we look at the sub table (given above), Suppose the birth (Natal) chart moon position is in MOO-JUP-RAH (the degree is 91:20:00) then as per the rule one can fix the ascendant either in MER-JUP-JUP(the degree is 80:00:00) or in MOO-SAT-JUP(the degree is 104:53:20). The highest difference is 13.5 deg (say), which will give roughly 54min time offset. As per this no birth should happen in this time zone in those places.

How this is correct? Request PUNIT/members to come to the conclusion whether to REJECT this Rule (which I have REJRCTED already) or Keep this Rule for further study (Personally I don’t find any scope/logic in this RULE to retain or to continue). If we don’t REJECT/ ELIMINATE this Rule now, then till the end of our last breath including our followers/beginners will be discussing about ‘N’ numbers of RBT rules and only more confusion can arise and solution may not be reached. We have to eliminate one by one and keep few/minimum RBT rules that may work well. For this our VGR has started some exercise request members to participate to find the way forward. I salute Mr.Subhash Ektare for raising very good logical question who made me to think further deep in the subject matter and to present this in appropriate manner. While doing this study have found some interesting things which I don’t want to rise now to avoid diverting the present topic before closing it. Note to Punit:

======== This message may get truncated after some time due to 64KB size limit. Please advise how to retain the message contents.(may be uploaded in Studies folder any other way?) My personal opinion is that each topic must be closed with some extend to move on the next topic but for this member’s support/contribution is essential otherwise the purpose of discussion will be lost or held at midway. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil--- On Wed, 12/23/09, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare wrote:

Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektareRe: Re: What is the correct birth time? Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 7:17 AM

 

 

 

 

Dear Senthil ji/Misra ji and Members,

 

Please excuse me for the interference. I missed these messages because I was travelling during that time and so could not comment. First, let it be clear that I am not a propagator of the Theory "Asc sub=Moon Star etc" nor I want to comment on it. Secondly I have no personal grudge against any member.

 

Mr. Senthil ji has given very nice, mathematically perfect presentation! ! Hats off to him. However I cannot to conclusion drawn, for following reasons. (Please refer message # 29225)

 

1. It is assumed that Sun Sub (which is lasting for 1h:25m:20 s) is acting simultaneously in whole world. And for remaining 27h:34m:40s there is no Sun sub acting anywhere in the world. This is possible only when exact same degree of Ascendant rises all over the world at a given time which is impossible.

 

2. Total No Birth Time Zone ( 22h;48m in the case of Sun sub) calculated will be applicable for the place where Ascendant movement for the period of about 29 hours is surveyed. In fact during this so called Total No Birth Time Zone.......at many other places in the world Sun sub for the Ascendant will be acting at some time or the other.

 

Request senior members to correct me if I am wrong.

Actually what Mr. VGR Pavan is doing is correct way of verifying which BTR method is consistent enough to be accepted. I appeal all members to participate and make it a success.

Regards

Subhash Ektare

 

 

 

Senthil <athi_ram >@gro ups.comTue, December 22, 2009 4:26:35 PMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Misra,

 

Please go through the link given below then you can understand yourself.

 

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 29217

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 29225

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 9596

 

GOOD LUCK!

 

D.Senthil--- On Tue, 12/22/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.com> wrote:

Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.com>Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.comTuesday, December 22, 2009, 6:44 AM

 

 

 

D.Senthil Ji, // Asc Sub= Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub= Moon Su //Please you may kindly be pleased to make it clear as to why the above rule does apply in most of the cases and it fails in few cases only.

With thanks & regards,

Dhirendra Nath Misra

 

 

 

 

 

Senthil <athi_ram >@gro ups.comTue, December 22, 2009 6:09:07 AMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Lajmi,

 

I will not accept the RULE of Asc Sub = Moon STAR & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub even it is recommended by Prof. KSK.

 

I will say it is a MEANING LESS, NO LOGIC & WASTE RULE ONLY. I have DISPROVED it and many members in the year 2005-2006 have also DISPROVED.

 

Kindly note that i don't have any personal feelings on anyone including you except the RULE (Asc Sub= Moob Star & Asc Sub-Sub= Moon Sub).

 

GOOD LUCK!

 

D.Senthil

--- On Mon, 12/21/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.comCc: "tw853" <tw853 >Monday, December 21, 2009, 6:42 AM

 

 

Dear TW,

Your letter is discussing totally irrelevant data,what the Baptism record says, is based on the information supplied by the parents,and not GOD ALMIGHTY... or Sunnat got to do with the astrologically correct Time of Birth,the reliability of both is doubtful...

In the Punjab and in Pakistan the Birth day used to be recorded as the day on which mundan is performed,anywhere between the real age is 1 to 3 or even 4 years... !

We are discussing K.P., not religious customs...which are what they are known to be...!

And for your information, our Guruji has recommended the method I have suggested,

and has been found to be very accurate by most K.P. followers,except Punit,you and your supporters in this column...

After my letter to Punit,based on this,he is going to check and verify whether this method is successful or not and he will be using the Birth Charts of persons and friends he know details about by using the K.P. Rectification method...

Let us await his observations. ..

Till then let us discuss the new topic I have begun and suggested we take up...

"How to assess the the quantum of the benefits,a 'benefic' planet will bestow upon the native of a chart under scrutiny..."

Surely this discussion will be very beneficial to all practitioners of K.P.,to give a more accurate assessment of the quantum of benefits...etc.

With best wishes,

Yogesh Lajmi

GOOD LUCK !

 

 

 

 

TW <tw853 >@gro ups.comMon, 21 December, 2009 4:21:17 AM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Dear Friends,1."AA --- Accurate data as recorded by the family or state. This includes BC (birth certificate) , and BR (birth record), that which is not an official document but a quote of the birth record from the Registrar or Bureau of Records, the baptismal certificate, family Bible, or baby book. These data reflect the best available accuracy." 2. As the astrological research computer program is not yet available, we apply a SIMPLE METHOD in our research study by checking chart by chart, as done by our Gurus and Church of Light (Astrology, 30 Years Research), whether each of the following definitions is met (tallied) or not, without any assumption or anything else.Moon Star = ASC Sub Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 16092?threaded= 1 & l=1

Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule.doc (File section)Explanation of the Test Results3. In Astrological Statistical Research, there are the simple method and the proper statistical analysis, as mention in the point 1 and 2 of:A Study of 100 Prisoner Charts.doc (File section)Thanks and regards,TW@gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Suprakash ji,> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and> better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you> want to do it?> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please> suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of> connection, we can

again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your> suggestions incorporated.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <> suprakash.ghosh@ ...> wrote:> > >> >> > Dear Punit ji> >> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the> > basic conditions assumed during the test.> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the> > genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts been> > analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is> > that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between> > moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt> > conjunction. Was all the

charts analysed in this way?> >> > If not, then the test has no relevance.> >> > Regards> >> > Suprakash> >> >> >> > -> > ** Punit Pandey <punitp> > *To:* @gro ups.com> > *Sent:* Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> > *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >> > Dear Suresh ji,> >> > Please see your post (> > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047). I quote -> >> > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by

Lajmiji is practicable as> > well as logical."> > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the> > wheel."> > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited> > and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research> > on the subject is surprising."> >> > *Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and the study> > found that the method doesn't work.* Please see the file section and you> > can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study> > found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. *That is the reason I say> > that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.* Your opinion (point> > no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following them "blindly"> > which also means following incorrect

methods.> >> > *What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of> > available methods.* People who are marketing their methods for a long> > time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may> > not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of> > KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating> > in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum> > loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must> > participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we> > will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win.> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh

<hattangadi_ suresh@.. .>wrote:> >> >>> >>> >> Dear Punitji,> >> I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not> >> read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But> >> again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years> >> experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his> >> experience.. My only point is research done in so many directions may not be> >> conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently> >> by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post.> >> Suresh Hattangadi> >>> >>> > > >>

 

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Dear Friends,

1. As posted in the File section under:

Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule.docx

(What is this? How to be applied?)

this rule is adjusting the TOB to satisfy " Asc Sub = Moon Star & simultaneously

Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub " char by chart.

2. So the simple, practical and straight checking of chart by chart " whether

these two conditions simultaneosuly match " , as done in the following posting in

the File section is the approach of looking at the elephant straight, than

tracing of his foot steps after seeing the elephant, without any illusion.

Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule.doc

Explanation of the Test Results

Thanks and regards,

TW

 

 

, Senthil <athi_ram wrote:

>

> Dear Subhash Ektare,

>  

> My replies are as given below.

>  

> //I agree with you that according to BTR Rule under consideration (Mr.

Shanmugam's rule and subsequently modified by Lajmi ji)), for all births on

a particular Moon star day..........Asc sub lord should be only one i.e. Sun,

Moon  etc depending on star lord of the Moon. This is not true in all cases, is

a fact........but possibility cannot be denied logically. //

>  

> From your statement can understand that for the entire world the birth

ascendant Sub lord always happen to be MOON star lord!!!!. But there is no

possibility in it. You can see the study of AA rated charts as mentioned by Tin

win in his various E-mails. For any RULEs we can always bring and present few

charts to statisfy the required % as per our wish because in INDIA itself more

than 100 crore people are available and getting charts is not a big deal. Even

you can always do the same RBT exercise for the all AA rated charts presented by

Tin win & others kept in our files section and same % may be brought. What is

the point in it???

>  

> //In the table of sub, I could not understand the calculations for Diff. in

Deg and Duration columns. So cannot comment.//

>  

> Diff. in Deg = Start of Next Same Sub- End of Current Same Sub=(No Birth Zone)

> Duration for No Birth Zone = Diff. in Deg X 4 Min

>  

> I have noticed the ERROR in the Diff. in deg & duration for the last SUB of

each planet except KET in my previous table which i have corrected and shown in

BLUE color (Refer below given new part Table).

>  

> For Example take SUN sub

>  

> (1st KET sub End)   = 00:46:40

> (2nd KET sub Start) = 25:53:20

> Diff. in Deg = 25:53:20 - 00:46:40 =25:06:40(=No Birth Zone)

> Duration     = 25:06:40 * 4 min = 01:40:27 Hrs(No Birth Zone time range)

>  

> //Possibility of Ascendant appearing in one sub earlier or one sub later than

the position of Moon is 3/249 (three out of 249 subs) which is equal to 1.20%

only. //

>  

> what you have taken is for 360 deg 249 subs.This is a simple math calculation.

Here you have to take within one No Birth Zone. If you see the Duration/time

wise can understand it well.

>  

> Take any birth happened in No Birth zone(that is ascendant Sub is not Moon

Star).What you are going to do in RBT? Simply shift the ascendant to Birth Zone

such that the time correction is very minimum/least.

>  

> Let us take the Maximum & minimum No birth zone of each Sub lord(Kindly note

that the additional row in BLUE color text is the corrected value compated to

the table given earlier-Regret inconvenience caused)

>  

>  (Sub wise - part Table).

>  

>

>

>

>

>

> Hr.No

>

> Rasi

>

> Sign

>

> Star

>

> Sub

>

> Start

>

> End

>

> Diff. In

> Deg.

>

> Duration

> (Hrs)

>

>

> 1

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> KET

>

> KET

>

> 00:00:00

>

> 00:46:40

>

> 25:06:40

>

> 01:40:27

>

>

> 68

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> SAT

>

> KET

>

> 97:20:00

>

> 98:06:40

>

> 10:26:40

>

> 00:41:47

>

>

> 10

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> VEN

>

> VEN

>

> 13:20:00

>

> 15:33:20

>

> 22:13:20

>

> 01:28:53

>

>

> 69

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> SAT

>

> VEN

>

> 98:06:40

>

> 100:20:00

>

> 09:00:00

>

> 00:36:00

>

>

> 77

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> MER

>

> VEN

>

> 109:20:00

>

> 111:33:20

>

> 09:13:20

>

> 00:36:53

>

>

> 11

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> VEN

>

> SUN

>

> 15:33:20

>

> 16:13:20

>

> 10:26:40

>

> 00:41:47

>

>

> 19

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> SUN

>

> SUN

>

> 26:40:00

>

> 27:20:00

>

> 25:20:00

>

> 01:41:20

>

>

> 78

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> MER

>

> SUN

>

> 111:33:20

>

> 112:13:20

>

> 10:46:40

>

> 00:43:07

>

>

> 12

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> VEN

>

> MOO

>

> 16:13:20

>

> 17:20:00

>

> 10:00:00

>

> 00:40:00

>

>

> 29

>

> RA2

>

> VEN

>

> MOO

>

> MOO

>

> 40:00:00

>

> 41:06:40

>

> 24:26:40

>

> 01:37:47

>

>

> 79

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> MER

>

> MOO

>

> 112:13:20

>

> 113:20:00

>

> 10:20:00

>

> 00:41:20

>

>

> 13

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> VEN

>

> MAR

>

> 17:20:00

>

> 18:06:40

>

> 10:20:00

>

> 00:41:20

>

>

> 38

>

> RA2

>

> VEN

>

> MAR

>

> MAR

>

> 53:20:00

>

> 54:06:40

>

> 25:06:40

>

> 01:40:27

>

>

> 80

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> MER

>

> MAR

>

> 113:20:00

>

> 114:06:40

>

> 10:40:00

>

> 00:42:40

>

>

> 14

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> VEN

>

> RAH

>

> 18:06:40

>

> 20:06:40

>

> 09:06:40

>

> 00:36:27

>

>

> 47

>

> RA3

>

> MER

>

> RAH

>

> RAH

>

> 66:40:00

>

> 68:40:00

>

> 22:40:00

>

> 01:30:40

>

>

> 81

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> MER

>

> RAH

>

> 114:06:40

>

> 116:06:40

>

> 09:26:40

>

> 00:37:47

>

>

> 15

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> VEN

>

> JUP

>

> 20:06:40

>

> 21:53:20

>

> 09:20:00

>

> 00:37:20

>

>

> 56

>

> RA3

>

> MER

>

> JUP

>

> JUP

>

> 80:00:00

>

> 81:46:40

>

> 23:06:40

>

> 01:32:27

>

>

> 82

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> MER

>

> JUP

>

> 116:06:40

>

> 117:53:20

>

> 09:40:00

>

> 00:38:40

>

>

> 16

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> VEN

>

> SAT

>

> 21:53:20

>

> 24:00:00

>

> 09:00:00

>

> 00:36:00

>

>

> 66

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> SAT

>

> SAT

>

> 93:20:00

>

> 95:26:40

>

> 22:26:40

>

> 01:29:47

>

>

> 83

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> MER

>

> SAT

>

> 117:53:20

>

> 120:00:00

>

> 09:20:00

>

> 00:37:20

>

>

> 17

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> VEN

>

> MER

>

> 24:00:00

>

> 25:53:20

>

> 09:13:20

>

> 00:36:53

>

>

> 75

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> MER

>

> MER

>

> 106:40:00

>

> 108:33:20

>

> 22:53:20

>

> 01:31:33

>  

> The least No birth Zone is 09:00:00 Deg (00:36:00 hrs) in VEN. The highest No

birth Zone is 25:20:00 Deg (01:41:20 hrs) in SUN.

>  

> Case:1(Minimum -Worst Case)

> ======================

> Assume a birth happened when the MOON is in VEN star and ascendant is at the

mid of No birth Zone ( that is 04:30:00 Deg)  simply you have to shift

ascendant to Birth Zone with 00:18:00 hrs (+ or - 18 minute) correction which is

the least possibility.

>  

> For VEN, the error possibility is equal to 50% (18/36) the correction

required is (+/- 18min)

>  

>

> Case:2(Maximum -Worst Case)

> =======================

> Assume a birth happened when the MOON is in SUN star and ascendant is at the

mid of No birth Zone ( that is 12:40:00 Deg)  simply you have to shift

ascendant to Birth Zone with 00:50:40 hrs (+ or - 51 minute) correction which is

the least possibility.

>  

>

> For SUN, the error possibility is equal to 50% (51/101) the correction

required is (+/- 51min)

>  

>

> All Cases

> =======

>  

> When the MOON is in particular star,Consider only the births which are

happened in No birth Zone and ascendants of those births are in a range(that

is at the start of No Birth Zone to mid of No birth Zone).Simple you have to

shift ascendant to Birth Zone with 0 Min to half of the No birth Zone duration.

>  

>

>

> The error possibility is equal to 0% to 50%( that is 00:00:00 Deg to 12:40:00

Deg ). For which the correction required is (+/- 0 to 51min)

>  

>

********************************************************************************\

******************

> So now you can select the charts as per your wish and present it. This is what

you have done in the attached file. You have selected 50 charts and Justfying

86% for +/-30 minute correction. See the part table what you have given.

>  

>

>

>

>

>

> Time when  Asc sub=Moon Str and Asc sub-sub=Moon sub

>

> Within 5 Min   +/-

>

> Within 10 Min  +/-

>

> Within 15 Min  +/-

>

> Within 20 Min +/-

>

> Within 25 Min  +/-

>

> Within 30 Min  +/-

>

> Beyond    30 Min    +/-

>

>

> Total Cases

>

> 15

>

> 8

>

> 7

>

> 7

>

> 4

>

> 2

>

> 7

>

>

> Within +/-30min

>

>  

>

>  

>

>  

>

>  

>

>  

>

> 43 (86%)

>

>  

>

>

> within +/-25min

>

>  

>

>  

>

>  

>

>  

>

> 41 (82%)

>

>  

>

>  

>

>

> within+/- 20min

>

>  

>

>  

>

>  

>

> 37 (74%)

>

>  

>

>  

>

>  

>

>

> within +/-15min

>

>  

>

>  

>

> 30 (60%)

>

>  

>

>  

>

>  

>

>  

>

>

> within +/- 10min

>

>  

>

> 23 (46%)

>

>  

>

>  

>

>  

>

>  

>

>  

>

>

> Within +/- 5min

>

> 15 (30%)

>

>  

>

>  

>

>  

>

>  

>

>  

>

>  

>  

> Kindly note that in the above table " Beyond 30 min " column will never exceed

51min (Maximum case) so we can call it " Beyond 30 min upto 51min "

>  

>

> You have selected 50 charts and showing actually 30% to 86% is ERRORS

ONLY(by using the RBT rule). Today I really learned from you, how to FOOL the

innocents (even clever) by showing one mathematical comparison table.

>  

> I don’t have any personal feelings with any of our forum members including

Shri Lajmi. I am opposing the RULE only. Just because of this one RULE we

can’t underestimate anybody. Shri Lajmi is one of the JAMBAVAN (Senior most

member age/experience wise) of this forum who has got vast knowledge in

astrology and contributes lot to this forum members and I really appreciate it.

His cooperation for VGR’s RBT exercise is highly respected.

>  

> I don’t have much energy to talk on this subject anymore and let us work

together with VGR for the RBT exercise to find the way forward.

>

>  

> Note to VGR

> =========

> Dear VGR can you please post the Quiz details for the members to participate.

>  

> GOOD LUCK!!

>  

> D.Senthil

>

>

>

>

> --- On Sat, 12/26/09, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare wrote:

>

>

> Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare

> Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

> Cc: " Senthil " <athi_ram, punitp, " Mr. Yogesh Rao Lajmi "

<lyrastro1

> Saturday, December 26, 2009, 4:10 AM

>

Dear Senthil ji,

>

>

> I agree with you that according to BTR Rule under consideration (Mr.

Shanmugam's rule and subsequently modified by Lajmi ji)), for all births on

a particular Moon star day..........Asc sub lord should be only one i.e. Sun,

Moon  etc depending on star lord of the Moon. This is not true in all cases, is

a fact........but possibility cannot be denied logically. May be a good subject

for research. 

>

>

> Mr. Lajmi ji uses this BTR method within +/- 30 min from the recorded time.

According to me about 86% cases can be rectified within this range complying

this rule. Please see attached file. However the birth time so arrived cannot be

certified  as correct/accurate unless VERIFIED.  For this, the verification

project being done by Mr. VGR Pavan is the only way to find most acceptable

method(s). 

>

>

> In the table of sub, I could not understand the calculations for Diff. in Deg

and Duration columns. So cannot comment.

>

>

> Regarding point raised in URL

 /message/28959 ..........

> Possibility of Ascendant appearing in one sub earlier or one sub later than

the position of Moon is 3/249 (three out of 249 subs) which is equal to 1.20%

only. This can be treated as exception to the rule or in failure percentage of

the rule. In my opinion this cannot form the basis for the rejection of the

rule.

>

>

> Please note that I am not canvassing this BTR method but opposing the basis

for its rejection. As  Mr. Punit Pandey has mentioned verification being done

by Mr. VGR Pavan is only correct way to select most acceptable method(s) in my

humble opinion. Please note that Mr. Lajmi ji is also co-operating and taking

part in the process. 

>

>

> Regards

> Subhash Ektare

Senthil <athi_ram

>

> Cc: subhash_ektare; punitp

> Thu, December 24, 2009 11:07:25 PM

> Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

Dear Subhash Ektare,

>  

> You have put Very Good logical questions and I appreciate your findings.

However let me rephrase my statements/questions as given below.

>  

> If we consider all the places within the band that is from 180W to 180E

longitude & 65N to 65S latitude (ignoring the places where the people are not

living most likely, example places which are coming on the Ocean/sea etc, -

leave the few people who live in the boat/ship or sail etc) at any particular

instant/time the entire 360 Degree Zodiac will be always occupied by the

ascendants of the various places around the world. As mentioned earlier (Message

ID# 29225) consider that the MOON is occupied in the SUN star and the time taken

by the moon to transit the whole SUN star is approximately 29 Hours. If we

assume that the MOON enters in the SUN star in a sign (where SUN star is

present) on date DD-MM-YYYY HH:MM:SS Hrs GMT (DD-Day, MM-Month, YYYY-Year,

HH-Hours, MM-minute, SS-Second) for discussion purpose let us assume the date

25-12-2009 00:00:00 GMT (don't see Ephemeris & ask next question there is no SUN

star in this day) and if we take each and every

> people living places on the earth they will have transit of ascendant

starting from Local mean time (LMT) corresponding to 00:00:00 hrs GMT to next

day Local mean time (LMT) corresponding to 05:00:00 hrs GMT. For example, Places

in INDIA which falls in 82.5Deg longitude irrespective of latitude consider the

transit of ascendant from 25-12-2009 05:30:00 Hrs LMT to next day 26-12-2009

10:30:00 Hrs LMT Local mean time (LMT) Similarly we can consider for all other

places also.

>  

> Now out of this 29 Hrs duration, the childbirth can happen ONLY when the

ascendant is transiting in CHILDBIRTH ZONE (that is the ascendant position

corresponding to sub lord is SUN) and there will not be any childbirth for the

balance NO BIRTH TIME ZONE (that is the ascendant position corresponding to any

other sub lord except SUN). Similarly we can consider for all other places also.

Based on this if we workout the told childbirth for the 29 Hours duration

approximately we will get 426560 births (at the rate of 353,015 births per day

as per 2009 record given in Message ID#29164). The entire 426560 birth charts

will have only SUN sub as ascendant and not even Single Chart/birth will have

other than SUN sub (that is, KET, VEN, MOO, MAR, RAH, JUP, SAT & MER). Similarly

for next block of succeeding 29(say) hours the entire 426560 birth charts will

have only MOO sub as ascendant and not even Single Chart/birth will have other

than MOO sub (that is KET, VEN,

> SUN, MAR, RAH, JUP, SAT & MER) because the MOO must have moved to the next

star that it’s own star (MOON star).

>  

> This shows that there is a sequence of Birth should happen around the world as

well as there should not be any other planets happened to be the ascendant Sub

lord except the one (Moon Star lord) within the block of time (29 Hours). IS

THIS POSSIBLE????

>  

> Secondly, let us look at the Table given below (Sorted in Ascending Order Sub

wise for the first 120 Deg of the Zodiac)

>  

>

>

>

>

> Hr.No

>

> Rasi

>

> Sign

>

> Star

>

> Sub

>

> Start

>

> End

>

> Diff. In Deg.

>

> Duration

> (Hrs)

>

>

> 1

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> KET

>

> KET

>

> 00:00:00

>

> 00:46:40

>

> 25:06:40

>

> 01:40:27

>

>

> 18

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> VEN

>

> KET

>

> 25:53:20

>

> 26:40:00

>

> 10:20:00

>

> 00:41:20

>

>

> 27

>

> RA2

>

> VEN

>

> SUN

>

> KET

>

> 37:00:00

>

> 37:46:40

>

> 11:53:20

>

> 00:47:33

>

>

> 35

>

> RA2

>

> VEN

>

> MOO

>

> KET

>

> 49:40:00

>

> 50:26:40

>

> 11:26:40

>

> 00:45:47

>

>

> 43

>

> RA3

>

> MER

>

> MAR

>

> KET

>

> 61:53:20

>

> 62:40:00

>

> 11:46:40

>

> 00:47:07

>

>

> 51

>

> RA3

>

> MER

>

> RAH

>

> KET

>

> 74:26:40

>

> 75:13:20

>

> 10:33:20

>

> 00:42:13

>

>

> 59

>

> RA3

>

> MER

>

> JUP

>

> KET

>

> 85:46:40

>

> 86:33:20

>

> 10:46:40

>

> 00:43:07

>

>

> 68

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> SAT

>

> KET

>

> 97:20:00

>

> 98:06:40

>

> 10:26:40

>

> 00:41:47

>

>

> 76

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> MER

>

> KET

>

> 108:33:20

>

> 109:20:00

>

> 10:40:00

>

> 00:42:40

>

>

> 2

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> KET

>

> VEN

>

> 00:46:40

>

> 03:00:00

>

> 10:20:00

>

> 00:41:20

>

>

> 10

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> VEN

>

> VEN

>

> 13:20:00

>

> 15:33:20

>

> 22:13:20

>

> 01:28:53

>

>

> 28

>

> RA2

>

> VEN

>

> SUN

>

> VEN

>

> 37:46:40

>

> 40:00:00

>

> 10:26:40

>

> 00:41:47

>

>

> 36

>

> RA2

>

> VEN

>

> MOO

>

> VEN

>

> 50:26:40

>

> 52:40:00

>

> 10:00:00

>

> 00:40:00

>

>

> 44

>

> RA3

>

> MER

>

> MAR

>

> VEN

>

> 62:40:00

>

> 64:53:20

>

> 10:20:00

>

> 00:41:20

>

>

> 52

>

> RA3

>

> MER

>

> RAH

>

> VEN

>

> 75:13:20

>

> 77:26:40

>

> 09:06:40

>

> 00:36:27

>

>

> 60

>

> RA3

>

> MER

>

> JUP

>

> VEN

>

> 86:33:20

>

> 88:46:40

>

> 09:20:00

>

> 00:37:20

>

>

> 69

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> SAT

>

> VEN

>

> 98:06:40

>

> 100:20:00

>

> 09:00:00

>

> 00:36:00

>

>

> 77

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> MER

>

> VEN

>

> 109:20:00

>

> 111:33:20

>

> 08:26:40

>

> 00:33:47

>

>

> 3

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> KET

>

> SUN

>

> 03:00:00

>

> 03:40:00

>

> 11:53:20

>

> 00:47:33

>

>

> 11

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> VEN

>

> SUN

>

> 15:33:20

>

> 16:13:20

>

> 10:26:40

>

> 00:41:47

>

>

> 19

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> SUN

>

> SUN

>

> 26:40:00

>

> 27:20:00

>

> 25:20:00

>

> 01:41:20

>

>

> 37

>

> RA2

>

> VEN

>

> MOO

>

> SUN

>

> 52:40:00

>

> 53:20:00

>

> 11:33:20

>

> 00:46:13

>

>

> 45

>

> RA3

>

> MER

>

> MAR

>

> SUN

>

> 64:53:20

>

> 65:33:20

>

> 11:53:20

>

> 00:47:33

>

>

> 53

>

> RA3

>

> MER

>

> RAH

>

> SUN

>

> 77:26:40

>

> 78:06:40

>

> 10:40:00

>

> 00:42:40

>

>

> 61

>

> RA3

>

> MER

>

> JUP

>

> SUN

>

> 88:46:40

>

> 89:26:40

>

> 10:53:20

>

> 00:43:33

>

>

> 70

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> SAT

>

> SUN

>

> 100:20:00

>

> 101:00:00

>

> 10:33:20

>

> 00:42:13

>

>

> 78

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> MER

>

> SUN

>

> 111:33:20

>

> 112:13:20

>

> 07:46:40

>

> 00:31:07

>

>

> 4

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> KET

>

> MOO

>

> 03:40:00

>

> 04:46:40

>

> 11:26:40

>

> 00:45:47

>

>

> 12

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> VEN

>

> MOO

>

> 16:13:20

>

> 17:20:00

>

> 10:00:00

>

> 00:40:00

>

>

> 20

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> SUN

>

> MOO

>

> 27:20:00

>

> 28:26:40

>

> 11:33:20

>

> 00:46:13

>

>

> 29

>

> RA2

>

> VEN

>

> MOO

>

> MOO

>

> 40:00:00

>

> 41:06:40

>

> 24:26:40

>

> 01:37:47

>

>

> 46

>

> RA3

>

> MER

>

> MAR

>

> MOO

>

> 65:33:20

>

> 66:40:00

>

> 11:26:40

>

> 00:45:47

>

>

> 54

>

> RA3

>

> MER

>

> RAH

>

> MOO

>

> 78:06:40

>

> 79:13:20

>

> 10:13:20

>

> 00:40:53

>

>

> 62

>

> RA3

>

> MER

>

> JUP

>

> MOO

>

> 89:26:40

>

> 90:00:00

>

> 00:00:00

>

> 00:00:00

>

>

> 63

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> JUP

>

> MOO

>

> 90:00:00

>

> 90:33:20

>

> 10:26:40

>

> 00:41:47

>

>

> 71

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> SAT

>

> MOO

>

> 101:00:00

>

> 102:06:40

>

> 10:06:40

>

> 00:40:27

>

>

> 79

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> MER

>

> MOO

>

> 112:13:20

>

> 113:20:00

>

> 06:40:00

>

> 00:26:40

>

>

> 5

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> KET

>

> MAR

>

> 04:46:40

>

> 05:33:20

>

> 11:46:40

>

> 00:47:07

>

>

> 13

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> VEN

>

> MAR

>

> 17:20:00

>

> 18:06:40

>

> 10:20:00

>

> 00:41:20

>

>

> 21

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> SUN

>

> MAR

>

> 28:26:40

>

> 29:13:20

>

> 11:53:20

>

> 00:47:33

>

>

> 30

>

> RA2

>

> VEN

>

> MOO

>

> MAR

>

> 41:06:40

>

> 41:53:20

>

> 11:26:40

>

> 00:45:47

>

>

> 38

>

> RA2

>

> VEN

>

> MAR

>

> MAR

>

> 53:20:00

>

> 54:06:40

>

> 25:06:40

>

> 01:40:27

>

>

> 55

>

> RA3

>

> MER

>

> RAH

>

> MAR

>

> 79:13:20

>

> 80:00:00

>

> 10:33:20

>

> 00:42:13

>

>

> 64

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> JUP

>

> MAR

>

> 90:33:20

>

> 91:20:00

>

> 10:46:40

>

> 00:43:07

>

>

> 72

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> SAT

>

> MAR

>

> 102:06:40

>

> 102:53:20

>

> 10:26:40

>

> 00:41:47

>

>

> 80

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> MER

>

> MAR

>

> 113:20:00

>

> 114:06:40

>

> 05:53:20

>

> 00:23:33

>

>

> 6

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> KET

>

> RAH

>

> 05:33:20

>

> 07:33:20

>

> 10:33:20

>

> 00:42:13

>

>

> 14

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> VEN

>

> RAH

>

> 18:06:40

>

> 20:06:40

>

> 09:06:40

>

> 00:36:27

>

>

> 22

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> SUN

>

> RAH

>

> 29:13:20

>

> 30:00:00

>

> 00:00:00

>

> 00:00:00

>

>

> 23

>

> RA2

>

> VEN

>

> SUN

>

> RAH

>

> 30:00:00

>

> 31:13:20

>

> 10:40:00

>

> 00:42:40

>

>

> 31

>

> RA2

>

> VEN

>

> MOO

>

> RAH

>

> 41:53:20

>

> 43:53:20

>

> 10:13:20

>

> 00:40:53

>

>

> 39

>

> RA2

>

> VEN

>

> MAR

>

> RAH

>

> 54:06:40

>

> 56:06:40

>

> 10:33:20

>

> 00:42:13

>

>

> 47

>

> RA3

>

> MER

>

> RAH

>

> RAH

>

> 66:40:00

>

> 68:40:00

>

> 22:40:00

>

> 01:30:40

>

>

> 65

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> JUP

>

> RAH

>

> 91:20:00

>

> 93:20:00

>

> 09:33:20

>

> 00:38:13

>

>

> 73

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> SAT

>

> RAH

>

> 102:53:20

>

> 104:53:20

>

> 09:13:20

>

> 00:36:53

>

>

> 81

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> MER

>

> RAH

>

> 114:06:40

>

> 116:06:40

>

> 03:53:20

>

> 00:15:33

>

>

> 7

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> KET

>

> JUP

>

> 07:33:20

>

> 09:20:00

>

> 10:46:40

>

> 00:43:07

>

>

> 15

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> VEN

>

> JUP

>

> 20:06:40

>

> 21:53:20

>

> 09:20:00

>

> 00:37:20

>

>

> 24

>

> RA2

>

> VEN

>

> SUN

>

> JUP

>

> 31:13:20

>

> 33:00:00

>

> 10:53:20

>

> 00:43:33

>

>

> 32

>

> RA2

>

> VEN

>

> MOO

>

> JUP

>

> 43:53:20

>

> 45:40:00

>

> 10:26:40

>

> 00:41:47

>

>

> 40

>

> RA2

>

> VEN

>

> MAR

>

> JUP

>

> 56:06:40

>

> 57:53:20

>

> 10:46:40

>

> 00:43:07

>

>

> 48

>

> RA3

>

> MER

>

> RAH

>

> JUP

>

> 68:40:00

>

> 70:26:40

>

> 09:33:20

>

> 00:38:13

>

>

> 56

>

> RA3

>

> MER

>

> JUP

>

> JUP

>

> 80:00:00

>

> 81:46:40

>

> 23:06:40

>

> 01:32:27

>

>

> 74

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> SAT

>

> JUP

>

> 104:53:20

>

> 106:40:00

>

> 09:26:40

>

> 00:37:47

>

>

> 82

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> MER

>

> JUP

>

> 116:06:40

>

> 117:53:20

>

> 02:06:40

>

> 00:08:27

>

>

> 8

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> KET

>

> SAT

>

> 09:20:00

>

> 11:26:40

>

> 10:26:40

>

> 00:41:47

>

>

> 16

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> VEN

>

> SAT

>

> 21:53:20

>

> 24:00:00

>

> 09:00:00

>

> 00:36:00

>

>

> 25

>

> RA2

>

> VEN

>

> SUN

>

> SAT

>

> 33:00:00

>

> 35:06:40

>

> 10:33:20

>

> 00:42:13

>

>

> 33

>

> RA2

>

> VEN

>

> MOO

>

> SAT

>

> 45:40:00

>

> 47:46:40

>

> 10:06:40

>

> 00:40:27

>

>

> 41

>

> RA2

>

> VEN

>

> MAR

>

> SAT

>

> 57:53:20

>

> 60:00:00

>

> 10:26:40

>

> 00:41:47

>

>

> 49

>

> RA3

>

> MER

>

> RAH

>

> SAT

>

> 70:26:40

>

> 72:33:20

>

> 09:13:20

>

> 00:36:53

>

>

> 57

>

> RA3

>

> MER

>

> JUP

>

> SAT

>

> 81:46:40

>

> 83:53:20

>

> 09:26:40

>

> 00:37:47

>

>

> 66

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> SAT

>

> SAT

>

> 93:20:00

>

> 95:26:40

>

> 22:26:40

>

> 01:29:47

>

>

> 83

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> MER

>

> SAT

>

> 117:53:20

>

> 120:00:00

>

> 00:00:00

>

> 00:00:00

>

>

> 9

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> KET

>

> MER

>

> 11:26:40

>

> 13:20:00

>

> 10:40:00

>

> 00:42:40

>

>

> 17

>

> RA1

>

> MAR

>

> VEN

>

> MER

>

> 24:00:00

>

> 25:53:20

>

> 09:13:20

>

> 00:36:53

>

>

> 26

>

> RA2

>

> VEN

>

> SUN

>

> MER

>

> 35:06:40

>

> 37:00:00

>

> 10:46:40

>

> 00:43:07

>

>

> 34

>

> RA2

>

> VEN

>

> MOO

>

> MER

>

> 47:46:40

>

> 49:40:00

>

> 10:20:00

>

> 00:41:20

>

>

> 42

>

> RA3

>

> MER

>

> MAR

>

> MER

>

> 60:00:00

>

> 61:53:20

>

> 10:40:00

>

> 00:42:40

>

>

> 50

>

> RA3

>

> MER

>

> RAH

>

> MER

>

> 72:33:20

>

> 74:26:40

>

> 09:26:40

>

> 00:37:47

>

>

> 58

>

> RA3

>

> MER

>

> JUP

>

> MER

>

> 83:53:20

>

> 85:46:40

>

> 09:40:00

>

> 00:38:40

>

>

> 67

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> SAT

>

> MER

>

> 95:26:40

>

> 97:20:00

>

> 09:20:00

>

> 00:37:20

>

>

> 75

>

> RA4

>

> MOO

>

> MER

>

> MER

>

> 106:40:00

>

> 108:33:20

>

> 11:26:40

>

> 00:45:47

>  

>  

> Let us consider that the MOON is occupied in the SUN star as mentioned above

with the position (say 27:20:00 SUN Star MOO-Sub). The Balance degree in the

star works out to 12:40:00. So the ascendant for all the places around the world

will complete one full circle that is 360 Degree at the same time the MOON might

have completed 11 Degree only with balance of 1:40:00 in the same star. Whenever

the ascendant of any place around the world comes closer to the MOON position

within the proximity range for about 25:20:00 Degrees corresponding to 01:41:20

hrs (refer above table Hr.No 19 - maximum case) and 07:46:40 Degrees

corresponding to 00:31:07 hrs (refer above table Hr.No 78 - minimum case) there

should not be any birth to happen in those places except other locations where

the ascendant is not closer to the MOON position within the proximity range.

This means that for any birth chart the ascendant and MOON position will never

be conjoined within this

> 25:20:00 Degrees (Max. Case) to 07:46:40 Degrees (Min case) orb except the

special case Rapt Conjunction (0 to 00:40:00 Deg) when the MOON is in the same

star & Sub (say SUN Star SUN Sub). This indicates that there is always an offset

in the birth time for about 00:31:07 hrs to 01:41:20 hrs except for the Special

case.

>  

> This shows that there is a sequence of Birth should happen around the world

whenever the ascendant of any place around the world comes closer to the MOON

position within the proximity range except other places. IS THIS POSSIBLE????

>  

> For Example:

>  

> How will you fix BTR for the person born with CANCER, SCRPIO, PIECES Moon sign

with JUP as STAR lord & RAH as sub whose ascendant also in the same

Sign-star-sub or just one sub offset (plus+ or minus-) position? (This point

was already raised in the below mentioned URL)

>  

>  /message/28959

>  

>

>

>

>

> Hr.No.

>

> Sgn:Str:Sub

>

> Degree

>

>

> 56

>

> MER:JUP:JUP

>

> 080:00:00

>

>

> 57

>

> MER:JUP:SAT

>

> 081:46:40

>

>

> 58

>

> MER:JUP:MER

>

> 083:53:20

>

>

> 59

>

> MER:JUP:KET

>

> 085:46:40

>

>

> 60

>

> MER:JUP:VEN

>

> 086:33:20

>

>

> 61

>

> MER:JUP:SUN

>

> 088:46:40

>

>

> 62

>

> MER:JUP:MOO

>

> 089:26:40

>

>

> 63

>

> MOO:JUP:MOO

>

> 090:00:00

>

>

> 64

>

> MOO:JUP:MAR

>

> 090:33:20

>

>

> 65

>

> MOO:JUP:RAH

>

> 091:20:00

>

>

> 66

>

> MOO:SAT:SAT

>

> 093:20:00

>

>

> 67

>

> MOO:SAT:MER

>

> 095:26:40

>

>

> 68

>

> MOO:SAT:KET

>

> 097:20:00

>

>

> 69

>

> MOO:SAT:VEN

>

> 098:06:40

>

>

> 70

>

> MOO:SAT:SUN

>

> 100:20:00

>

>

> 71

>

> MOO:SAT:MOO

>

> 101:00:00

>

>

> 72

>

> MOO:SAT:MAR

>

> 102:06:40

>

>

> 73

>

> MOO:SAT:RAH

>

> 102:53:20

>

>

> 74

>

> MOO:SAT:JUP

>

> 104:53:20

>  

> If we look at the sub table (given above), Suppose the birth (Natal) chart

moon position is in MOO-JUP-RAH (the degree is 91:20:00) then as per the rule

one can fix the ascendant either in MER-JUP-JUP(the degree is 80:00:00) or  in

MOO-SAT-JUP(the degree is 104:53:20). The highest difference is 13.5 deg (say),

which will give roughly 54min time offset. As per this no birth should happen

in this time zone in those places.

>  

> How this is correct?

>  

> Request PUNIT/members to come to the conclusion whether to REJECT this Rule

(which I have REJRCTED already) or Keep this Rule for further study (Personally

I don’t find any scope/logic in this RULE to retain or to continue). If we

don’t REJECT/ ELIMINATE this Rule now, then till the end of our last breath

including our followers/beginners will be discussing about ‘N’ numbers of

RBT rules and only more confusion can arise and solution may not be reached. We

have to eliminate one by one and keep few/minimum RBT rules that may work well.

For this our VGR has started some exercise request members to participate to

find the way forward.

>  

> I salute Mr.Subhash Ektare for raising very good logical question who made me

to think further deep in the subject matter and to present this in appropriate

manner. While doing this study have found some interesting things which I

don’t want to rise now to avoid diverting the present topic before closing it.

>  

> Note to Punit:

> ========

> This message may get truncated after some time due to 64KB size limit. Please

advise how to retain the message contents.(may be uploaded in Studies folder any

other way?) My personal opinion is that each topic must be closed with some

extend to move on the next topic but for this member’s support/contribution is

essential otherwise the purpose of discussion will be lost or held at midway.

>  

>  

> GOOD LUCK!

>  D.Senthil

>

> --- On Wed, 12/23/09, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare wrote:

>

>

> Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare

> Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

> Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 7:17 AM

>

>

>  

>

>

>

>

>

> Dear  Senthil ji/Misra ji and Members,

>

>

> Please excuse me for the interference. I missed these messages because I was

travelling during that time and so could not comment. First, let it be clear

that I am not  a propagator of the Theory " Asc sub=Moon Star  etc " nor I want

to comment on it. Secondly I have no personal grudge against any member.

>

>

> Mr. Senthil ji has given very nice, mathematically perfect presentation! !

Hats off to him. However I cannot to conclusion drawn, for following

reasons. (Please refer message # 29225)

>

>

> 1.   It is assumed that Sun Sub (which is lasting for 1h:25m:20 s) is

acting simultaneously in whole world. And for remaining 27h:34m:40s there is

no Sun sub acting anywhere in the world. This is possible only when exact same

degree of Ascendant rises all over the world at a given time which

is impossible. 

>

>

> 2.   Total No Birth Time Zone ( 22h;48m in the case of Sun sub) calculated

will be applicable for the place where Ascendant movement for the period of

about 29 hours is surveyed. In fact during this so called Total No Birth Time

Zone.......at many other places in the world Sun sub for the Ascendant will be

acting at some time or the other.  

>

>

> Request senior members to correct me if I am wrong.

> Actually what Mr. VGR Pavan is doing is correct way of verifying which BTR

method is consistent enough to be accepted. I appeal all  members to

participate and make it a success.

> Regards

> Subhash Ektare

>

>

>

>

> Senthil <athi_ram >

> @gro ups.com

> Tue, December 22, 2009 4:26:35 PM

> Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

>  

Dear Misra,

>  

> Please go through the link given below then you can understand yourself.

>  

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 29217

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 29225

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 9596

>  

> GOOD LUCK!

>  

> D.Senthil

>

> --- On Tue, 12/22/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.com>

wrote:

>

>

> Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.com>

> Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

> @gro ups.com

> Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 6:44 AM

>

>

>  

>

>

>

>

> D.Senthil Ji, // Asc Sub= Moon Star &   Asc Sub-Sub= Moon Su  //

> Please you may kindly be pleased to make it clear as to why the above rule

does apply in most of the cases and it fails in few cases only.

> With thanks & regards, 

> Dhirendra Nath Misra

>  

Senthil <athi_ram >

> @gro ups.com

> Tue, December 22, 2009 6:09:07 AM

> Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

>  

Dear Lajmi,

>  

> I will not accept the RULE of Asc Sub = Moon STAR & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub

even it is recommended by Prof. KSK.

>  

> I will say it is a MEANING LESS, NO LOGIC &  WASTE RULE ONLY. I have DISPROVED

it and many members in the year 2005-2006 have also DISPROVED.

>  

> Kindly note that i don't have any personal feelings on anyone including you

except the RULE (Asc Sub= Moob Star &   Asc Sub-Sub= Moon Sub).

>  

> GOOD LUCK!

>  

> D.Senthil

>

>

> --- On Mon, 12/21/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

>

>

> Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ >

> Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

> @gro ups.com

> Cc: " tw853 " <tw853 >

> Monday, December 21, 2009, 6:42 AM

>

>

>  

>

>

>

> Dear TW,

>                Your letter is discussing totally irrelevant

data,what the Baptism record says, is based on the information supplied by the

parents,and not GOD ALMIGHTY... or Sunnat got to do with the astrologically

correct Time of Birth,the reliability of both is doubtful...

>                In the Punjab and in Pakistan the Birth

day used to be  recorded as the day on which mundan is performed,anywhere

between the real age is 1 to 3 or even 4 years... !

>                We are discussing K.P., not religious

customs...which are what they are known to be...!

>                And for your information, our Guruji has

recommended the method I have suggested,

> and has been found to be very accurate by most K.P. followers,except Punit,you

and your supporters in this column...

>                After my letter to Punit,based on this,he is

going to check and verify whether this method is successful or not and he will

be using the Birth Charts of persons and friends he know details about by using

the K.P. Rectification method...

>                 Let us await his observations. ..

>                 Till then let us discuss the new topic I have

begun and suggested we take up...

>                 " How to assess the the quantum of the

benefits,a 'benefic' planet will bestow upon the native of a chart under

scrutiny... "

>                 Surely this discussion will be very beneficial

to all practitioners of K.P.,to give a more accurate assessment of the quantum

of benefits...etc.

>                 With best wishes,

>                 Yogesh Lajmi

>                                     

        GOOD LUCK !

>                 

>               

>              

>

>  

>  

>

>

>

> TW <tw853 >

> @gro ups.com

> Mon, 21 December, 2009 4:21:17 AM

> Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

>  

>

> Dear Friends,

> 1. " AA --- Accurate data as recorded by the family or state. This includes BC

(birth certificate) , and BR (birth record), that which is not an official

document but a quote of the birth record from the Registrar or Bureau of

Records, the baptismal certificate, family Bible, or baby book. These data

reflect the best available accuracy. "

> 2. As the astrological research computer program is not yet available, we

apply a SIMPLE METHOD in our research study by checking chart by chart, as done

by our Gurus and Church of Light (Astrology, 30 Years Research), whether each of

the following definitions is met (tallied) or not, without any assumption or

anything else.

> Moon Star = ASC Sub

> Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub

> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 16092?threaded= 1 & l=1

> Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule.doc (File section)

> Explanation of the Test Results

> 3. In Astrological Statistical Research, there are the simple method and the

proper statistical analysis, as mention in the point 1 and 2 of:

> A Study of 100 Prisoner Charts.doc (File section)

> Thanks and regards,

> TW

>

> @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Suprakash ji,

> >

> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and

> > better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you

> > want to do it?

> >

> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please

> > suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of

> > connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your

> > suggestions incorporated.

> >

> > Thanks & Regards,

> >

> > Punit Pandey

> >

> >

> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <

> > suprakash.ghosh@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Punit ji

> > >

> > > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the

> > > basic conditions assumed during the test.

> > > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the

> > > genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts

been

> > > analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is

> > > that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between

> > > moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in

rapt

> > > conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way?

> > >

> > > If not, then the test has no relevance.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > >

> > > Suprakash

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > > ** Punit Pandey <punitp@>

> > > *To:* @gro ups.com

> > > *Sent:* Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM

> > > *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Suresh ji,

> > >

> > > Please see your post (

> > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047). I quote -

> > >

> > > 1. " In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as

> > > well as logical. "

> > > 2. " Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the

> > > wheel. "

> > > 3. " When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited

> > > and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research

> > > on the subject is surprising. "

> > >

> > > *Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method " most often " and the study

> > > found that the method doesn't work.* Please see the file section and you

> > > can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study

> > > found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. *That is the reason I say

> > > that we should not " blindly " follow even Stalwarts.* Your opinion (point

> > > no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following them " blindly "

> > > which also means following incorrect methods.

> > >

> > > *What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of

> > > available methods.* People who are marketing their methods for a long

> > > time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It

may

> > > not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest

of

> > > KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating

> > > in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making

forum

> > > loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must

> > > participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we

> > > will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win.

> > >

> > > Thanks & Regards,

> > >

> > > Punit Pandey

> > >

> > >

> > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@ .>wrote:

> > >

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> Dear Punitji,

> > >> I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not

> > >> read full comment where I have said you can test this method for

results.But

> > >> again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years

> > >> experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his

> > >> experience.. My only point is research done in so many directions may not

be

> > >> conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted

differently

> > >> by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post.

> > >> Suresh Hattangadi

> > >>

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

> See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.

>

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Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3 minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth time further for different ayanamsas.

With thanks & regards,

Dhirendra Nath Misra

 

 

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Sent: Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark. Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before I pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect. Bhaskar.@gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> wrote:>> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?> > Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested ? Good.> > Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical checking before pronouncing

whether a mother will have child or not, we must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ? Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?> > Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia to predict ? > > If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of astrology are we into ?> > And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think whatever you predict will be right ?> > Boss this is not astrology. An

astrologer needs to speak to no one. He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper. > > Bhaskar.> > > > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh" <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> >> > Dear Punitji> > > > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual time of first cry.> > > > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> > > > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A > > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in

navamsa> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orb with C> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with specified orb)> > > > > > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > > > > >

> > > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > > > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you want to do it?> > > > > > > > > > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your suggestions incorporated. > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > > > > > > > Dear Punit ji> > > > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the basic

conditions assumed during the test.> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way? > > > > If not, then the test has no relevance.> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> > Re:

What is the correct birth time?> > > > > > > > > > Dear Suresh ji,> > > > Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047). I quote -> > > > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical."> > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel."> > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising."> > > > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were

advocating it fiercely but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is the reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts. Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods. > > > > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally

the KP will win. > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@> wrote:> > > > > > Dear Punitji,> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post. > > Suresh Hattangadi> >>

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Punit ji

 

 

No , it does not mean that.The relations are just to locate the most

representative planet for star/sub lord of moon.After all , the rule stated by

Lajmiji is based on RP and RP doesn't always indicate in a streight way. Even

Rahu / Ketu may represent Moon star or sublord .

 

 

Take my conditions as:

 

A = RP moon Starlord

B= Expected sub lord in Natal Chart

 

If A and B have relations as per the rules mentioned by me (please note and

stress the 'AND' conditions), we should not blindly put A in place of asc sub

lord. Instead, B, a planet not appeared as moon star lord may become strong

contender for sub position as well.

 

The same logic is for finding SS lord also.

 

Hope I can clear your doubt.

 

Regards

 

Suprakash

 

 

 

 

 

, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:

>

> Dear Suprakash ji,

>

> I do not understand how you will use point 'a' to 'h' in case of

> ascendnat-moon connection rule?

>

> Does it mean that -

>

> Ascedant sub lord can be

> 0) moon's star

> a) in the star of Moon's star

> b) in sub of Moon's star

> c) in sign Moon's star

> c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa [this is not KP, so

> ignoring this]

> d) Ascendant sub conjoins Moon's star

> e) A third planet is in orb of ascedant sub and moon's star

> f) ascendant sub aspects moon's star (vedic)

> g) moon's star aspects ascedant sub (vedic)

> f) ascendant sub aspects moon's star (vedic)

> g) moon's star aspects ascedant sub (vedic)

>

> If my understanding is correct, at least in the case of ascendant-moon rule

> it doesn't make sense because one of the above condition will be always

> going to be satisfied. So many rule, makes almost any time correct. You have

> mentioned so many conditions.

>

> Thanks & Regards,

>

> Punit Pandey

>

>

> On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Suprakash Ghosh <

> suprakash.ghosh wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Dear Punitji

> >

> > *Collection of reliable birth data* : we need to have connection with

> > nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual time of

> > first cry.

> >

> > *As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :*

> >

> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A

> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A

> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A

> > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa

> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)

> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planet C is

> > inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orb with C

> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)

> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)

> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with specified

> > orb)

> >

> >

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Suprakash

> >

> >

> >

> > -

> > ** Punit Pandey <punitp

> > *To:*

> > *Sent:* Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM

> > *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear Suprakash ji,

> >

> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and

> > better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you

> > want to do it?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please

> > suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of

> > connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your

> > suggestions incorporated.

> >

> > Thanks & Regards,

> >

> > Punit Pandey

> >

> >

> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <

> > suprakash.ghosh wrote:

> >

> >>

> >>

> >> Dear Punit ji

> >>

> >> Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the

> >> basic conditions assumed during the test.

> >> Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the

> >> genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts

been

> >> analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is

> >> that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between

> >> moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in

rapt

> >> conjunction.Was all the charts analysed in this way?

> >>

> >> If not, then the test has no relevance.

> >>

> >> Regards

> >>

> >> Suprakash

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> -

> >> ** Punit Pandey <punitp

> >> *To:*

> >> *Sent:* Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM

> >> *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Dear Suresh ji,

> >>

> >> Please see your post (

> >> /message/30047). I quote -

> >>

> >> 1. " In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as

> >> well as logical. "

> >> 2. " Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the

> >> wheel. "

> >> 3. " When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited

> >> and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research

> >> on the subject is surprising. "

> >>

> >> *Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method " most often " and the

> >> study found that the method doesn't work.* Please see the file section

> >> and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but

> >> what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. *That is the

> >> reason I say that we should not " blindly " follow even Stalwarts.* Your

> >> opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following

> >> them " blindly " which also means following incorrect methods.

> >>

> >> *What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of

> >> available methods.* People who are marketing their methods for a long

> >> time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It

may

> >> not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of

> >> KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating

> >> in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum

> >> loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must

> >> participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we

> >> will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win.

> >>

> >> Thanks & Regards,

> >>

> >> Punit Pandey

> >>

> >>

> >> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_sureshwrote:

> >>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Dear Punitji,

> >>> I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not

> >>> read full comment where I have said you can test this method for

results.But

> >>> again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji,s forty years

> >>> experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his

> >>> experience.My only point is research done in so many directions may not be

> >>> conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted

differently

> >>> by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post.

> >>> Suresh Hattangadi

> >>>

> >>>

> >>

> >

> >

>

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My Dear KP Brothers,

It's not worhty to continue dicussion on this useless and confusing issue. Let

us go ahead on other useful and practical issues.

Thanks and regards,

TW

 

, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare wrote:

>

> Dear Senthil ji,

>

> I agree with you that according to BTR Rule under consideration (Mr.

Shanmugam's rule and subsequently modified by Lajmi ji)), for all births on a

particular Moon star day..........Asc sub lord should be only one i.e. Sun, Moon

etc depending on star lord of the Moon. This is not true in all cases, is a

fact........but possibility cannot be denied logically. May be a good subject

for research.

>

> Mr. Lajmi ji uses this BTR method within +/- 30 min from the recorded time.

According to me about 86% cases can be rectified within this range complying

this rule. Please see attached file. However the birth time so arrived cannot be

certified as correct/accurate unless VERIFIED. For this, the verification

project being done by Mr. VGR Pavan is the only way to find most acceptable

method(s).

>

> In the table of sub, I could not understand the calculations for Diff. in Deg

and Duration columns. So cannot comment.

>

> Regarding point raised in URL

/message/28959 ..........

> Possibility of Ascendant appearing in one sub earlier or one sub later than

the position of Moon is 3/249 (three out of 249 subs) which is equal to 1.20%

only. This can be treated as exception to the rule or in failure percentage of

the rule. In my opinion this cannot form the basis for the rejection of the

rule.

>

> Please note that I am not canvassing this BTR method but opposing the basis

for its rejection. As Mr. Punit Pandey has mentioned verification being done by

Mr. VGR Pavan is only correct way to select most acceptable method(s) in my

humble opinion. Please note that Mr. Lajmi ji is also co-operating and taking

part in the process.

>

> Regards

> Subhash Ektare

>

>

> Senthil <athi_ram

>

> Cc: subhash_ektare; punitp

> Thu, December 24, 2009 11:07:25 PM

> Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

>

> Dear Subhash Ektare,

>

> You have put Very Good logical questions and I appreciate your findings.

However let me rephrase my statements/questions as given below.

>

> If we consider all the places within the band that is from 180W to 180E

longitude & 65N to 65S latitude (ignoring the places where the people are not

living most likely, example places which are coming on the Ocean/sea etc, -

leave the few people who live in the boat/ship or sail etc) at any particular

instant/time the entire 360 Degree Zodiac will be always occupied by the

ascendants of the various places around the world. As mentioned earlier (Message

ID# 29225) consider that the MOON is occupied in the SUN star and the time taken

by the moon to transit the whole SUN star is approximately 29 Hours. If we

assume that the MOON enters in the SUN star in a sign (where SUN star is

present) on date DD-MM-YYYY HH:MM:SS Hrs GMT (DD-Day, MM-Month, YYYY-Year,

HH-Hours, MM-minute, SS-Second) for discussion purpose let us assume the date

25-12-2009 00:00:00 GMT (do see Ephemeris ask next question there is no SUN star

in this day) and if we take each and every

> people living places on the earth they will have transit of ascendant

starting from Local mean time (LMT) corresponding to 00:00:00 hrs GMT to next

day Local mean time (LMT) corresponding to 05:00:00 hrs GMT. For example, Places

in INDIA which falls in 82.5Deg longitude irrespective of latitude consider the

transit of ascendant from 25-12-2009 05:30:00 Hrs LMT to next day 26-12-2009

10:30:00 Hrs LMT Local mean time (LMT) Similarly we can consider for all other

places also.

>

> Now out of this 29 Hrs duration, the childbirth can happen ONLY when the

ascendant is transiting in CHILDBIRTH ZONE (that is the ascendant position

corresponding to sub lord is SUN) and there will not be any childbirth for the

balance NO BIRTH TIME ZONE (that is the ascendant position corresponding to any

other sub lord except SUN). Similarly we can consider for all other places also.

Based on this if we workout the told childbirth for the 29 Hours duration

approximately we will get 426560 births (at the rate of 353,015 births per day

as per 2009 record given in Message ID#29164). The entire 426560 birth charts

will have only SUN sub as ascendant and not even Single Chart/birth will have

other than SUN sub (that is, KET, VEN, MOO, MAR, RAH, JUP, SAT & MER). Similarly

for next block of succeeding 29(say) hours the entire 426560 birth charts will

have only MOO sub as ascendant and not even Single Chart/birth will have other

than MOO sub (that is KET, VEN,

> SUN, MAR, RAH, JUP, SAT & MER) because the MOO must have moved to the next

star that it’s own star (MOON star).

>

> This shows that there is a sequence of Birth should happen around the world as

well as there should not be any other planets happened to be the ascendant Sub

lord except the one (Moon Star lord) within the block of time (29 Hours). IS

THIS POSSIBLE????

>

> Secondly, let us look at the Table given below (Sorted in Ascending Order Sub

wise for the first 120 Deg of the Zodiac)

>

> Hr.No Rasi Sign Star Sub Start End Diff. In Deg. Duration

> (Hrs)

> 1 RA1 MAR KET KET 00:00:00 00:46:40 25:06:40 01:40:27

> 18 RA1 MAR VEN KET 25:53:20 26:40:00 10:20:00 00:41:20

> 27 RA2 VEN SUN KET 37:00:00 37:46:40 11:53:20 00:47:33

> 35 RA2 VEN MOO KET 49:40:00 50:26:40 11:26:40 00:45:47

> 43 RA3 MER MAR KET 61:53:20 62:40:00 11:46:40 00:47:07

> 51 RA3 MER RAH KET 74:26:40 75:13:20 10:33:20 00:42:13

> 59 RA3 MER JUP KET 85:46:40 86:33:20 10:46:40 00:43:07

> 68 RA4 MOO SAT KET 97:20:00 98:06:40 10:26:40 00:41:47

> 76 RA4 MOO MER KET 108:33:20 109:20:00 10:40:00 00:42:40

> 2 RA1 MAR KET VEN 00:46:40 03:00:00 10:20:00 00:41:20

> 10 RA1 MAR VEN VEN 13:20:00 15:33:20 22:13:20 01:28:53

> 28 RA2 VEN SUN VEN 37:46:40 40:00:00 10:26:40 00:41:47

> 36 RA2 VEN MOO VEN 50:26:40 52:40:00 10:00:00 00:40:00

> 44 RA3 MER MAR VEN 62:40:00 64:53:20 10:20:00 00:41:20

> 52 RA3 MER RAH VEN 75:13:20 77:26:40 09:06:40 00:36:27

> 60 RA3 MER JUP VEN 86:33:20 88:46:40 09:20:00 00:37:20

> 69 RA4 MOO SAT VEN 98:06:40 100:20:00 09:00:00 00:36:00

> 77 RA4 MOO MER VEN 109:20:00 111:33:20 08:26:40 00:33:47

> 3 RA1 MAR KET SUN 03:00:00 03:40:00 11:53:20 00:47:33

> 11 RA1 MAR VEN SUN 15:33:20 16:13:20 10:26:40 00:41:47

> 19 RA1 MAR SUN SUN 26:40:00 27:20:00 25:20:00 01:41:20

> 37 RA2 VEN MOO SUN 52:40:00 53:20:00 11:33:20 00:46:13

> 45 RA3 MER MAR SUN 64:53:20 65:33:20 11:53:20 00:47:33

> 53 RA3 MER RAH SUN 77:26:40 78:06:40 10:40:00 00:42:40

> 61 RA3 MER JUP SUN 88:46:40 89:26:40 10:53:20 00:43:33

> 70 RA4 MOO SAT SUN 100:20:00 101:00:00 10:33:20 00:42:13

> 78 RA4 MOO MER SUN 111:33:20 112:13:20 07:46:40 00:31:07

> 4 RA1 MAR KET MOO 03:40:00 04:46:40 11:26:40 00:45:47

> 12 RA1 MAR VEN MOO 16:13:20 17:20:00 10:00:00 00:40:00

> 20 RA1 MAR SUN MOO 27:20:00 28:26:40 11:33:20 00:46:13

> 29 RA2 VEN MOO MOO 40:00:00 41:06:40 24:26:40 01:37:47

> 46 RA3 MER MAR MOO 65:33:20 66:40:00 11:26:40 00:45:47

> 54 RA3 MER RAH MOO 78:06:40 79:13:20 10:13:20 00:40:53

> 62 RA3 MER JUP MOO 89:26:40 90:00:00 00:00:00 00:00:00

> 63 RA4 MOO JUP MOO 90:00:00 90:33:20 10:26:40 00:41:47

> 71 RA4 MOO SAT MOO 101:00:00 102:06:40 10:06:40 00:40:27

> 79 RA4 MOO MER MOO 112:13:20 113:20:00 06:40:00 00:26:40

> 5 RA1 MAR KET MAR 04:46:40 05:33:20 11:46:40 00:47:07

> 13 RA1 MAR VEN MAR 17:20:00 18:06:40 10:20:00 00:41:20

> 21 RA1 MAR SUN MAR 28:26:40 29:13:20 11:53:20 00:47:33

> 30 RA2 VEN MOO MAR 41:06:40 41:53:20 11:26:40 00:45:47

> 38 RA2 VEN MAR MAR 53:20:00 54:06:40 25:06:40 01:40:27

> 55 RA3 MER RAH MAR 79:13:20 80:00:00 10:33:20 00:42:13

> 64 RA4 MOO JUP MAR 90:33:20 91:20:00 10:46:40 00:43:07

> 72 RA4 MOO SAT MAR 102:06:40 102:53:20 10:26:40 00:41:47

> 80 RA4 MOO MER MAR 113:20:00 114:06:40 05:53:20 00:23:33

> 6 RA1 MAR KET RAH 05:33:20 07:33:20 10:33:20 00:42:13

> 14 RA1 MAR VEN RAH 18:06:40 20:06:40 09:06:40 00:36:27

> 22 RA1 MAR SUN RAH 29:13:20 30:00:00 00:00:00 00:00:00

> 23 RA2 VEN SUN RAH 30:00:00 31:13:20 10:40:00 00:42:40

> 31 RA2 VEN MOO RAH 41:53:20 43:53:20 10:13:20 00:40:53

> 39 RA2 VEN MAR RAH 54:06:40 56:06:40 10:33:20 00:42:13

> 47 RA3 MER RAH RAH 66:40:00 68:40:00 22:40:00 01:30:40

> 65 RA4 MOO JUP RAH 91:20:00 93:20:00 09:33:20 00:38:13

> 73 RA4 MOO SAT RAH 102:53:20 104:53:20 09:13:20 00:36:53

> 81 RA4 MOO MER RAH 114:06:40 116:06:40 03:53:20 00:15:33

> 7 RA1 MAR KET JUP 07:33:20 09:20:00 10:46:40 00:43:07

> 15 RA1 MAR VEN JUP 20:06:40 21:53:20 09:20:00 00:37:20

> 24 RA2 VEN SUN JUP 31:13:20 33:00:00 10:53:20 00:43:33

> 32 RA2 VEN MOO JUP 43:53:20 45:40:00 10:26:40 00:41:47

> 40 RA2 VEN MAR JUP 56:06:40 57:53:20 10:46:40 00:43:07

> 48 RA3 MER RAH JUP 68:40:00 70:26:40 09:33:20 00:38:13

> 56 RA3 MER JUP JUP 80:00:00 81:46:40 23:06:40 01:32:27

> 74 RA4 MOO SAT JUP 104:53:20 106:40:00 09:26:40 00:37:47

> 82 RA4 MOO MER JUP 116:06:40 117:53:20 02:06:40 00:08:27

> 8 RA1 MAR KET SAT 09:20:00 11:26:40 10:26:40 00:41:47

> 16 RA1 MAR VEN SAT 21:53:20 24:00:00 09:00:00 00:36:00

> 25 RA2 VEN SUN SAT 33:00:00 35:06:40 10:33:20 00:42:13

> 33 RA2 VEN MOO SAT 45:40:00 47:46:40 10:06:40 00:40:27

> 41 RA2 VEN MAR SAT 57:53:20 60:00:00 10:26:40 00:41:47

> 49 RA3 MER RAH SAT 70:26:40 72:33:20 09:13:20 00:36:53

> 57 RA3 MER JUP SAT 81:46:40 83:53:20 09:26:40 00:37:47

> 66 RA4 MOO SAT SAT 93:20:00 95:26:40 22:26:40 01:29:47

> 83 RA4 MOO MER SAT 117:53:20 120:00:00 00:00:00 00:00:00

> 9 RA1 MAR KET MER 11:26:40 13:20:00 10:40:00 00:42:40

> 17 RA1 MAR VEN MER 24:00:00 25:53:20 09:13:20 00:36:53

> 26 RA2 VEN SUN MER 35:06:40 37:00:00 10:46:40 00:43:07

> 34 RA2 VEN MOO MER 47:46:40 49:40:00 10:20:00 00:41:20

> 42 RA3 MER MAR MER 60:00:00 61:53:20 10:40:00 00:42:40

> 50 RA3 MER RAH MER 72:33:20 74:26:40 09:26:40 00:37:47

> 58 RA3 MER JUP MER 83:53:20 85:46:40 09:40:00 00:38:40

> 67 RA4 MOO SAT MER 95:26:40 97:20:00 09:20:00 00:37:20

> 75 RA4 MOO MER MER 106:40:00 108:33:20 11:26:40 00:45:47

>

>

> Let us consider that the MOON is occupied in the SUN star as mentioned above

with the position (say 27:20:00 SUN Star MOO-Sub). The Balance degree in the

star works out to 12:40:00. So the ascendant for all the places around the world

will complete one full circle that is 360 Degree at the same time the MOON might

have completed 11 Degree only with balance of 1:40:00 in the same star. Whenever

the ascendant of any place around the world comes closer to the MOON position

within the proximity range for about 25:20:00 Degrees corresponding to 01:41:20

hrs (refer above table Hr.No 19 - maximum case) and 07:46:40 Degrees

corresponding to 00:31:07 hrs (refer above table Hr.No 78 - minimum case) there

should not be any birth to happen in those places except other locations where

the ascendant is not closer to the MOON position within the proximity range.

This means that for any birth chart the ascendant and MOON position will never

be conjoined within this

> 25:20:00 Degrees (Max. Case) to 07:46:40 Degrees (Min case) orb except the

special case Rapt Conjunction (0 to 00:40:00 Deg) when the MOON is in the same

star & Sub (say SUN Star SUN Sub). This indicates that there is always an offset

in the birth time for about 00:31:07 hrs to 01:41:20 hrs except for the Special

case.

>

> This shows that there is a sequence of Birth should happen around the world

whenever the ascendant of any place around the world comes closer to the MOON

position within the proximity range except other places. IS THIS POSSIBLE????

>

> For Example:

> How will you fix BTR for the person born with CANCER, SCRPIO, PIECES Moon

sign with JUP as STAR lord & RAH as sub whose ascendant also in the same

Sign-star-sub or just one sub offset (plus+ or minus-) position? (This point was

already raised in the below mentioned URL)

>

> /message/28959

>

> Hr.No. Sgn:Str:Sub Degree

> 56 MER:JUP:JUP 080:00:00

> 57 MER:JUP:SAT 081:46:40

> 58 MER:JUP:MER 083:53:20

> 59 MER:JUP:KET 085:46:40

> 60 MER:JUP:VEN 086:33:20

> 61 MER:JUP:SUN 088:46:40

> 62 MER:JUP:MOO 089:26:40

> 63 MOO:JUP:MOO 090:00:00

> 64 MOO:JUP:MAR 090:33:20

> 65 MOO:JUP:RAH 091:20:00

> 66 MOO:SAT:SAT 093:20:00

> 67 MOO:SAT:MER 095:26:40

> 68 MOO:SAT:KET 097:20:00

> 69 MOO:SAT:VEN 098:06:40

> 70 MOO:SAT:SUN 100:20:00

> 71 MOO:SAT:MOO 101:00:00

> 72 MOO:SAT:MAR 102:06:40

> 73 MOO:SAT:RAH 102:53:20

> 74 MOO:SAT:JUP 104:53:20

>

> If we look at the sub table (given above), Suppose the birth (Natal) chart

moon position is in MOO-JUP-RAH (the degree is 91:20:00) then as per the rule

one can fix the ascendant either in MER-JUP-JUP(the degree is 80:00:00) or in

MOO-SAT-JUP(the degree is 104:53:20). The highest difference is 13.5 deg (say),

which will give roughly 54min time offset. As per this no birth should happen in

this time zone in those places.

>

> How this is correct?

>

> Request PUNIT/members to come to the conclusion whether to REJECT this Rule

(which I have REJRCTED already) or Keep this Rule for further study (Personally

I don’t find any scope/logic in this RULE to retain or to continue). If we

don’t REJECT/ ELIMINATE this Rule now, then till the end of our last breath

including our followers/beginners will be discussing about ‘N’ numbers of

RBT rules and only more confusion can arise and solution may not be reached. We

have to eliminate one by one and keep few/minimum RBT rules that may work well.

For this our VGR has started some exercise request members to participate to

find the way forward.

>

> I salute Mr.Subhash Ektare for raising very good logical question who made me

to think further deep in the subject matter and to present this in appropriate

manner. While doing this study have found some interesting things which I

don’t want to rise now to avoid diverting the present topic before closing it.

>

> Note to Punit:

> ========

> This message may get truncated after some time due to 64KB size limit. Please

advise how to retain the message contents.(may be uploaded in Studies folder any

other way?)My personal opinion is that each topic must be closed with some

extend to move on the next topic but for this member’s support/contribution is

essential otherwise the purpose of discussion will be lost or held at midway.

>

>

> GOOD LUCK!

> D.Senthil

>

> --- On Wed, 12/23/09, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare wrote:

>

>

> >Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare

> >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >

> >Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 7:17 AM

> >

> >

> >

> >Dear Senthil ji/Misra ji and Members,

> >

> >

> >Please excuse me for the interference. I missed these messages because I was

travelling during that time and so could not comment. First, let it be clear

that I am not a propagator of the Theory " Asc sub=Moon Star etc " nor I want to

comment on it. Secondly I have no personal grudge against any member.

> >

> >

> >Mr. Senthil ji has given very nice, mathematically perfect presentation! !

Hats off to him. However I cannot to conclusion drawn, for following

reasons. (Please refer message # 29225)

> >

> >

> >1. It is assumed that Sun Sub (which is lasting for 1h:25m:20 s) is acting

simultaneously in whole world. And for remaining 27h:34m:40s there is no Sun sub

acting anywhere in the world. This is possible only when exact same degree of

Ascendant rises all over the world at a given time which is impossible.

> >

> >

> >2. Total No Birth Time Zone ( 22h;48m in the case of Sun sub) calculated

will be applicable for the place where Ascendant movement for the period of

about 29 hours is surveyed. In fact during this so called Total No Birth Time

Zone.......at many other places in the world Sun sub for the Ascendant will be

acting at some time or the other.

> >

> >

> >Request senior members to correct me if I am wrong.

> >Actually what Mr. VGR Pavan is doing is correct way of verifying which BTR

method is consistent enough to be accepted. I appeal all members to participate

and make it a success.

> >Regards

> >Subhash Ektare

> >

> >

> >

> ________________________________

> Senthil <athi_ram >

> >@gro ups.com

> >Tue, December 22, 2009 4:26:35 PM

> >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >

> >

> >Dear Misra,

> >

> >Please go through the link given below then you can understand yourself.

> >

> >http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959

> >http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 29217

> >http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 29225

> >http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 9596

> >

> >GOOD LUCK!

> >

> >D.Senthil

> >

> >--- On Tue, 12/22/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.com>

wrote:

> >

> >

> >>Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.com>

> >>Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >>@gro ups.com

> >>Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 6:44 AM

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>D.Senthil Ji, // Asc Sub= Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub= Moon Su //

> >>Please you may kindly be pleased to make it clear as to why the above rule

does apply in most of the cases and it fails in few cases only.

> >>With thanks & regards,

> >>Dhirendra Nath Misra

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> ________________________________

> Senthil <athi_ram >

> >>@gro ups.com

> >>Tue, December 22, 2009 6:09:07 AM

> >>Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >>

> >>

> >>Dear Lajmi,

> >>

> >>I will not accept the RULE of Asc Sub = Moon STAR & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub

even it is recommended by Prof. KSK.

> >>

> >>I will say it is a MEANING LESS, NO LOGIC & WASTE RULE ONLY. I have

DISPROVED it and many members in the year 2005-2006 have also DISPROVED.

> >>

> >>Kindly note that i don't have any personal feelings on anyone including you

except the RULE (Asc Sub= Moob Star & Asc Sub-Sub= Moon Sub).

> >>

> >>GOOD LUCK!

> >>

> >>D.Senthil

> >>

> >>

> >>--- On Mon, 12/21/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

> >>

> >>

> >>>Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ >

> >>>Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >>>@gro ups.com

> >>>Cc: " tw853 " <tw853 >

> >>>Monday, December 21, 2009, 6:42 AM

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>Dear TW,

> >>> Your letter is discussing totally irrelevant data,what the

Baptism record says, is based on the information supplied by the parents,and not

GOD ALMIGHTY... or Sunnat got to do with the astrologically correct Time of

Birth,the reliability of both is doubtful...

> >>> In the Punjab and in Pakistan the Birth day used to be

recorded as the day on which mundan is performed,anywhere between the real age

is 1 to 3 or even 4 years... !

> >>> We are discussing K.P.,not religious customs...which are

what they are known to be...!

> >>> And for your information,our Guruji has recommended the

method I have suggested,

> >>>and has been found to be very accurate by most K.P. followers,except

Punit,you and your supporters in this column...

> >>> After my letter to Punit,based on this,he is going to check

and verify whether this method is successful or not and he will be using the

Birth Charts of persons and friends he know details about by using the K.P.

Rectification method...

> >>> Let us await his observations. ..

> >>> Till then let us discuss the new topic I have begun and

suggested we take up...

> >>> " How to assess the the quantum of the benefits,a 'benefic'

planet will bestow upon the native of a chart under scrutiny... "

> >>> Surely this discussion will be very beneficial to all

practitioners of K.P.,to give a more accurate assessment of the quantum of

benefits...etc.

> >>> With best wishes,

> >>> Yogesh Lajmi

> >>> GOOD LUCK !

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> ________________________________

> TW <tw853 >

> >>>@gro ups.com

> >>>Mon, 21 December, 2009 4:21:17 AM

> >>> Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>Dear Friends,

> >>>1. " AA --- Accurate data as recorded by the family or state. This includes

BC (birth certificate) , and BR (birth record), that which is not an official

document but a quote of the birth record from the Registrar or Bureau of

Records, the baptismal certificate, family Bible, or baby book. These data

reflect the best available accuracy. "

> >>>2. As the astrological research computer program is not yet available, we

apply a SIMPLE METHOD in our research study by checking chart by chart, as done

by our Gurus and Church of Light (Astrology, 30 Years Research), whether each of

the following definitions is met (tallied) or not, without any assumption or

anything else.

> >>>Moon Star = ASC Sub

> >>>Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub

> >>>http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 16092?threaded= 1 & l=1

> >>>Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule.doc (File section)

> >>>Explanation of the Test Results

> >>>3. In Astrological Statistical Research, there are the simple method and

the proper statistical analysis, as mention in the point 1 and 2 of:

> >>>A Study of 100 Prisoner Charts.doc (File section)

> >>>Thanks and regards,

> >>>TW

> >>>

> >>>@gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp@> wrote:

> >>>>

> >>>> Dear Suprakash ji,

> >>>>

> >>>> AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and

> >>>> better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you

> >>>> want to do it?

> >>>>

> >>>> Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon,

please

> >>>> suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition

of

> >>>> connection, we

> >>> can

> >>> again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your

> >>>> suggestions incorporated.

> >>>>

> >>>> Thanks & Regards,

> >>>>

> >>>> Punit Pandey

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <

> >>>> suprakash.ghosh@ ...> wrote:

> >>>>

> >>>> >

> >>>> >

> >>>> > Dear Punit ji

> >>>> >

> >>>> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the

> >>>> > basic conditions assumed during the test.

> >>>> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the

> >>>> > genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts

been

> >>>> > analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say

is

> >>>> > that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently

between

> >>>> > moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in

rapt

> >>>> > conjunction. Was all the

> >>> charts analysed in this way?

> >>>> >

> >>>> > If not, then the test has no relevance.

> >>>> >

> >>>> > Regards

> >>>> >

> >>>> > Suprakash

> >>>> >

> >>>> >

> >>>> >

> >>>> > -

> >>>> > ** Punit Pandey <punitp@>

> >>>> > *To:* @gro ups.com

> >>>> > *Sent:* Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM

> >>>> > *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >>>> >

> >>>> >

> >>>> >

> >>>> > Dear Suresh ji,

> >>>> >

> >>>> > Please see your post (

> >>>> > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047). I quote -

> >>>> >

> >>>> > 1. " In actual practice only method suggested by

> >>> Lajmiji is practicable as

> >>>> > well as logical. "

> >>>> > 2. " Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the

> >>>> > wheel. "

> >>>> > 3. " When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best

suited

> >>>> > and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further

research

> >>>> > on the subject is surprising. "

> >>>> >

> >>>> > *Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method " most often " and the

study

> >>>> > found that the method doesn't work.* Please see the file section and

you

> >>>> > can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study

> >>>> > found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. *That is the reason I

say

> >>>> > that we should not " blindly " follow even Stalwarts.* Your opinion

(point

> >>>> > no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following them

" blindly "

> >>>> > which also means following incorrect

> >>> methods.

> >>>> >

> >>>> > *What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of

> >>>> > available methods.* People who are marketing their methods for a long

> >>>> > time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods.

It may

> >>>> > not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in

interest of

> >>>> > KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating

> >>>> > in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making

forum

> >>>> > loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must

> >>>> > participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise,

we

> >>>> > will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will

win.

> >>>> >

> >>>> > Thanks & Regards,

> >>>> >

> >>>> > Punit Pandey

> >>>> >

> >>>> >

> >>>> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh

> >>> <hattangadi_ suresh@ .>wrote:

> >>>> >

> >>>> >>

> >>>> >>

> >>>> >> Dear Punitji,

> >>>> >> I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not

> >>>> >> read full comment where I have said you can test this method for

results.But

> >>>> >> again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty

years

> >>>> >> experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his

> >>>> >> experience.. My only point is research done in so many directions may

not be

> >>>> >> conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted

differently

> >>>> >> by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent

post.

> >>>> >> Suresh Hattangadi

> >>>> >>

> >>>> >>

> >>>> >

> >>>> >

> >>>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>________________________________

> >>>See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

> >

>

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Dear Mishra ji,

 

//The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting recorded birth

time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3 minutes)Â onlyÂ

we can apply the above rule.//

 

Please demonstrate the above statement by illustrating the above with

two example horoscopes. I am unable to understand what great astrology

are we into that by shifting recorded birth time with few seconds we can

make any difference (Except for those cases where Cuspal sublord

changes) in the predictions. And in exceptional cases upto 3 minutes?

Most of the cases will have time difference of recorded birth time and

actual birth time within 2-5 minutes and not few seconds Sir.

 

// Besides this the different astrologers will have to change the

recorded/rectified birth time further for different ayanamsas.//

 

Please xplain this. When we are talking in this Group, it is understood

that apart from KP, we do not talk about others. But yet, I request you

to please explain your above statement with display of various

ayanamshas, what is the intent of the above content ?

 

regards,

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, Dhirendra Nath Misra

<dhirendranathmisra wrote:

>

> Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting

recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3

minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the

different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth

time further for different ayanamsas.

> With thanks & regards,Â

> Dhirendra Nath Misra

> Â

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish

>

> Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM

> Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

> Â

> Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But

trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an

hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who

has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look

at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready

to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark.

Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the

natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording

of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before I

pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise

I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon

is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the

time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect.

>

> Bhaskar.

>

> @gro ups.com, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>

wrote:

> >

> > Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and you

will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?

> >

> > Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note

the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery

room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested

? Good.

> >

> > Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and

such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of

Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And

what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to

go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical

checking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, we

must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and

become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must

check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or

not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is

there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ?

Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?

> >

> > Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why

cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia

to predict ?

> >

> > If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be

able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of

astrology are we into ?

> >

> > And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think

whatever you predict will be right ?

> >

> > Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one.

He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power

of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.

> >

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> >

> >

> > @gro ups.com, " Suprakash Ghosh "

<suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Punitji

> > >

> > > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection

with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual

time of first cry.

> > >

> > > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :

> > >

> > > a) A in star of B and B in star of A

> > > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A

> > > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A

> > > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa

> > > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)

> > > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planet

C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orb

with C

> > > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)

> > > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)

> > > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with

specified orb)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards

> > >

> > > Suprakash

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > > Punit Pandey

> > > @gro ups.com

> > > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM

> > > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Suprakash ji,

> > >

> > > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any

alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let

us know how you want to do it?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and

Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have

this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon

connection method with your suggestions incorporated.

> > >

> > > Thanks & Regards,

> > >

> > > Punit Pandey

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh

<suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Punit ji

> > >

> > > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us

know the basic conditions assumed during the test.

> > > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the

genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts

been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to

say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently

between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged

stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way?

> > >

> > > If not, then the test has no relevance.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > >

> > > Suprakash

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > > Punit Pandey

> > > @gro ups.com

> > > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM

> > > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Suresh ji,

> > >

> > > Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_

system/message/ 30047). I quote -

> > >

> > > 1. " In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is

practicable as well as logical. "

> > > 2. " Suggesting further research in this matter is like

re-inventing the wheel. "

> > > 3. " When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best

suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further

research on the subject is surprising. "

> > >

> > > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method " most often " and

the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file

section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely

but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is

the reason I say that we should not " blindly " follow even Stalwarts.

Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend

following them " blindly " which also means following incorrect methods.

> > >

> > > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification

of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long

time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It

may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in

interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and

participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention

and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and

we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this

exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the

KP will win.

> > >

> > > Thanks & Regards,

> > >

> > > Punit Pandey

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@>

wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Punitji,

> > > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously

not read full comment where I have said you can test this method for

results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji,

s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question

value of his experience.My only point is research done in so many

directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will

be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident if you

have read subsequent post.

> > > Suresh Hattangadi

> > >

> >

>

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Dear VGR,

 

Thanks for your reply & understanding.

 

GOOD LUCK!!

 

D.Senthil --- On Mon, 12/28/09, vgr pavan <vgr_pavan1 wrote:

vgr pavan <vgr_pavan1Re: Re: What is the correct birth time? Date: Monday, December 28, 2009, 1:35 AM

 

 

 

 

Senthilji Pranam,very good presentation to prove your "point".thanks for your detailed explanation, .regardsPeace and Prosperity to All !!VGR--- On Sun, 27/12/09, Senthil <athi_ram > wrote:

Senthil <athi_ram >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.comCc: subhash_ektare@ , punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com, lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) co.in, tw853 , vgr_pavan1 (AT) (DOT) co.inSunday, 27 December, 2009, 1:20 AM

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Subhash Ektare,

 

My replies are as given below.

 

//I agree with you that according to BTR Rule under consideration (Mr. Shanmugam's rule and subsequently modified by Lajmi ji)), for all births on a particular Moon star day......... .Asc sub lord should be only one i.e. Sun, Moon etc depending on star lord of the Moon. This is not true in all cases, is a fact........but possibility cannot be denied logically. //

 

From your statement can understand that for the entire world the birth ascendant Sub lord always happen to be MOON star lord!!!!. But there is no possibility in it. You can see the study of AA rated charts as mentioned by Tin win in his various E-mails. For any RULEs we can always bring and present few charts to statisfy the required % as per our wish because in INDIA itself more than 100 crore people are available and getting charts is not a big deal. Even you can always do the same RBT exercise for the all AA rated charts presented by Tin win & others kept in our files section and same % may be brought. What is the point in it???

 

//In the table of sub, I could not understand the calculations for Diff. in Deg and Duration columns. So cannot comment.//

 

Diff. in Deg = Start of Next Same Sub- End of Current Same Sub=(No Birth Zone)

Duration for No Birth Zone = Diff. in Deg X 4 Min

 

I have noticed the ERROR in the Diff. in deg & duration for the last SUB of each planet except KET in my previous table which i have corrected and shown in BLUE color (Refer below given new part Table).

 

For Example take SUN sub

 

(1st KET sub End) = 00:46:40

(2nd KET sub Start) = 25:53:20

Diff. in Deg = 25:53:20 - 00:46:40 =25:06:40(=No Birth Zone)

Duration = 25:06:40 * 4 min = 01:40:27 Hrs(No Birth Zone time range)

 

//Possibility of Ascendant appearing in one sub earlier or one sub later than the position of Moon is 3/249 (three out of 249 subs) which is equal to 1.20% only. //

 

what you have taken is for 360 deg 249 subs.This is a simple math calculation. Here you have to take within one No Birth Zone. If you see the Duration/time wise can understand it well.

 

Take any birth happened in No Birth zone(that is ascendant Sub is not Moon Star).What you are going to do in RBT? Simply shift the ascendant to Birth Zone such that the time correction is very minimum/least.

 

Let us take the Maximum & minimum No birth zone of each Sub lord(Kindly note that the additional row in BLUE color text is the corrected value compated to the table given earlier-Regret inconvenience caused)

 

(Sub wise - part Table).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hr.No

 

Rasi

 

Sign

 

Star

 

Sub

 

Start

 

End

 

Diff. In Deg.

 

Duration (Hrs)

 

 

1

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

KET

 

00:00:00

 

00:46:40

 

25:06:40

 

01:40:27

 

 

68

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

KET

 

97:20:00

 

98:06:40

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

10

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

VEN

 

13:20:00

 

15:33:20

 

22:13:20

 

01:28:53

 

 

69

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

VEN

 

98:06:40

 

100:20:00

 

09:00:00

 

00:36:00

 

 

77

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

VEN

 

109:20:00

 

111:33:20

 

09:13:20

 

00:36:53

 

 

11

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

SUN

 

15:33:20

 

16:13:20

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

19

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

SUN

 

SUN

 

26:40:00

 

27:20:00

 

25:20:00

 

01:41:20

 

 

78

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

SUN

 

111:33:20

 

112:13:20

 

10:46:40

 

00:43:07

 

 

12

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

16:13:20

 

17:20:00

 

10:00:00

 

00:40:00

 

 

29

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

MOO

 

40:00:00

 

41:06:40

 

24:26:40

 

01:37:47

 

 

79

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

MOO

 

112:13:20

 

113:20:00

 

10:20:00

 

00:41:20

 

 

13

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

MAR

 

17:20:00

 

18:06:40

 

10:20:00

 

00:41:20

 

 

38

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MAR

 

MAR

 

53:20:00

 

54:06:40

 

25:06:40

 

01:40:27

 

 

80

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

MAR

 

113:20:00

 

114:06:40

 

10:40:00

 

00:42:40

 

 

14

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

RAH

 

18:06:40

 

20:06:40

 

09:06:40

 

00:36:27

 

 

47

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

RAH

 

66:40:00

 

68:40:00

 

22:40:00

 

01:30:40

 

 

81

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

RAH

 

114:06:40

 

116:06:40

 

09:26:40

 

00:37:47

 

 

15

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

JUP

 

20:06:40

 

21:53:20

 

09:20:00

 

00:37:20

 

 

56

 

RA3

 

MER

 

JUP

 

JUP

 

80:00:00

 

81:46:40

 

23:06:40

 

01:32:27

 

 

82

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

JUP

 

116:06:40

 

117:53:20

 

09:40:00

 

00:38:40

 

 

16

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

SAT

 

21:53:20

 

24:00:00

 

09:00:00

 

00:36:00

 

 

66

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

SAT

 

93:20:00

 

95:26:40

 

22:26:40

 

01:29:47

 

 

83

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

SAT

 

117:53:20

 

120:00:00

 

09:20:00

 

00:37:20

 

 

17

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

MER

 

24:00:00

 

25:53:20

 

09:13:20

 

00:36:53

 

 

75

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

MER

 

106:40:00

 

108:33:20

 

22:53:20

 

01:31:33

 

The least No birth Zone is 09:00:00 Deg (00:36:00 hrs) in VEN. The highest No birth Zone is 25:20:00 Deg (01:41:20 hrs) in SUN.

 

Case:1(Minimum -Worst Case)

============ ========= =

Assume a birth happened when the MOON is in VEN star and ascendant is at the mid of No birth Zone ( that is 04:30:00 Deg) simply you have to shift ascendant to Birth Zone with 00:18:00 hrs (+ or - 18 minute) correction which is the least possibility.

 

For VEN, the error possibility is equal to 50% (18/36) the correction required is (+/- 18min)

 

 

Case:2(Maximum -Worst Case)

============ ========= ==

Assume a birth happened when the MOON is in SUN star and ascendant is at the mid of No birth Zone ( that is 12:40:00 Deg) simply you have to shift ascendant to Birth Zone with 00:50:40 hrs (+ or - 51 minute) correction which is the least possibility.

 

 

For SUN, the error possibility is equal to 50% (51/101) the correction required is (+/- 51min)

 

 

All Cases

=======

 

When the MOON is in particular star,Consider only the births which are happened in No birth Zone and ascendants of those births are in a range(that is at the start of No Birth Zone to mid of No birth Zone).Simple you have to shift ascendant to Birth Zone with 0 Min to half of the No birth Zone duration.

 

 

 

The error possibility is equal to 0% to 50%( that is 00:00:00 Deg to 12:40:00 Deg ). For which the correction required is (+/- 0 to 51min)

 

************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* *****

So now you can select the charts as per your wish and present it. This is what you have done in the attached file. You have selected 50 charts and Justfying 86% for +/-30 minute correction. See the part table what you have given.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Time when Asc sub=Moon Str and Asc sub-sub=Moon sub

 

Within 5 Min +/-

 

Within 10 Min +/-

 

Within 15 Min +/-

 

Within 20 Min +/-

 

Within 25 Min +/-

 

Within 30 Min +/-

 

Beyond 30 Min +/-

 

 

Total Cases

 

15

 

8

 

7

 

7

 

4

 

2

 

7

 

 

Within +/-30min

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

43 (86%)

 

 

 

 

within +/-25min

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

41 (82%)

 

 

 

 

 

 

within+/- 20min

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

37 (74%)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

within +/-15min

 

 

 

 

 

30 (60%)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

within +/- 10min

 

 

 

23 (46%)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Within +/- 5min

 

15 (30%)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kindly note that in the above table "Beyond 30 min" column will never exceed 51min (Maximum case) so we can call it "Beyond 30 min upto 51min"

 

 

You have selected 50 charts and showing actually 30% to 86% is ERRORS ONLY(by using the RBT rule). Today I really learned from you, how to FOOL the innocents (even clever) by showing one mathematical comparison table.

I don’t have any personal feelings with any of our forum members including Shri Lajmi. I am opposing the RULE only. Just because of this one RULE we can’t underestimate anybody. Shri Lajmi is one of the JAMBAVAN (Senior most member age/experience wise) of this forum who has got vast knowledge in astrology and contributes lot to this forum members and I really appreciate it. His cooperation for VGR’s RBT exercise is highly respected.

I don’t have much energy to talk on this subject anymore and let us work together with VGR for the RBT exercise to find the way forward.

Note to VGR ========= Dear VGR can you please post the Quiz details for the members to participate.

GOOD LUCK!! D.Senthil

 

--- On Sat, 12/26/09, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ > wrote:

Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.comCc: "Senthil" <athi_ram >, punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com, "Mr. Yogesh Rao Lajmi" <lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) co.in>Saturday, December 26, 2009, 4:10 AM

 

 

 

Dear Senthil ji,

 

I agree with you that according to BTR Rule under consideration (Mr. Shanmugam's rule and subsequently modified by Lajmi ji)), for all births on a particular Moon star day......... .Asc sub lord should be only one i.e. Sun, Moon etc depending on star lord of the Moon. This is not true in all cases, is a fact........ but possibility cannot be denied logically. May be a good subject for research.

 

Mr. Lajmi ji uses this BTR method within +/- 30 min from the recorded time. According to me about 86% cases can be rectified within this range complying this rule. Please see attached file. However the birth time so arrived cannot be certified as correct/accurate unless VERIFIED. For this, the verification project being done by Mr. VGR Pavan is the only way to find most acceptable method(s).

 

In the table of sub, I could not understand the calculations for Diff. in Deg and Duration columns. So cannot comment.

 

Regarding point raised in URL http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959 ..........

Possibility of Ascendant appearing in one sub earlier or one sub later than the position of Moon is 3/249 (three out of 249 subs) which is equal to 1.20% only. This can be treated as exception to the rule or in failure percentage of the rule. In my opinion this cannot form the basis for the rejection of the rule.

 

Please note that I am not canvassing this BTR method but opposing the basis for its rejection. As Mr. Punit Pandey has mentioned verification being done by Mr. VGR Pavan is only correct way to select most acceptable method(s) in my humble opinion. Please note that Mr. Lajmi ji is also co-operating and taking part in the process.

 

Regards

Subhash Ektare

 

 

 

 

Senthil <athi_ram >@gro ups.comCc: subhash_ektare@ ; punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) comThu, December 24, 2009 11:07:25 PMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

Dear Subhash Ektare,

You have put Very Good logical questions and I appreciate your findings. However let me rephrase my statements/question s as given below.

If we consider all the places within the band that is from 180W to 180E longitude & 65N to 65S latitude (ignoring the places where the people are not living most likely, example places which are coming on the Ocean/sea etc, - leave the few people who live in the boat/ship or sail etc) at any particular instant/time the entire 360 Degree Zodiac will be always occupied by the ascendants of the various places around the world. As mentioned earlier (Message ID# 29225) consider that the MOON is occupied in the SUN star and the time taken by the moon to transit the whole SUN star is approximately 29 Hours. If we assume that the MOON enters in the SUN star in a sign (where SUN star is present) on date DD-MM-YYYY HH:MM:SS Hrs GMT (DD-Day, MM-Month, YYYY-Year, HH-Hours, MM-minute, SS-Second) for discussion purpose let us assume the date 25-12-2009 00:00:00 GMT (don't see Ephemeris & ask next question

there is no SUN star in this day) and if we take each and every people living places on the earth they will have transit of ascendant starting from Local mean time (LMT) corresponding to 00:00:00 hrs GMT to next day Local mean time (LMT) corresponding to 05:00:00 hrs GMT. For example, Places in INDIA which falls in 82.5Deg longitude irrespective of latitude consider the transit of ascendant from 25-12-2009 05:30:00 Hrs LMT to next day 26-12-2009 10:30:00 Hrs LMT Local mean time (LMT) Similarly we can consider for all other places also.

Now out of this 29 Hrs duration, the childbirth can happen ONLY when the ascendant is transiting in CHILDBIRTH ZONE (that is the ascendant position corresponding to sub lord is SUN) and there will not be any childbirth for the balance NO BIRTH TIME ZONE (that is the ascendant position corresponding to any other sub lord except SUN). Similarly we can consider for all other places also. Based on this if we workout the told childbirth for the 29 Hours duration approximately we will get 426560 births (at the rate of 353,015 births per day as per 2009 record given in Message ID#29164). The entire 426560 birth charts will have only SUN sub as ascendant and not even Single Chart/birth will have other than SUN sub (that is, KET, VEN, MOO, MAR, RAH, JUP, SAT & MER). Similarly for next block of succeeding 29(say) hours the entire 426560 birth charts will have only MOO sub as ascendant and not even Single

Chart/birth will have other than MOO sub (that is KET, VEN, SUN, MAR, RAH, JUP, SAT & MER) because the MOO must have moved to the next star that it’s own star (MOON star).

This shows that there is a sequence of Birth should happen around the world as well as there should not be any other planets happened to be the ascendant Sub lord except the one (Moon Star lord) within the block of time (29 Hours). IS THIS POSSIBLE???? Secondly, let us look at the Table given below (Sorted in Ascending Order Sub wise for the first 120 Deg of the Zodiac)

 

 

 

Hr.No

 

Rasi

 

Sign

 

Star

 

Sub

 

Start

 

End

 

Diff. In Deg.

 

Duration (Hrs)

 

 

1

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

KET

 

00:00:00

 

00:46:40

 

25:06:40

 

01:40:27

 

 

18

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

KET

 

25:53:20

 

26:40:00

 

10:20:00

 

00:41:20

 

 

27

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

SUN

 

KET

 

37:00:00

 

37:46:40

 

11:53:20

 

00:47:33

 

 

35

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

KET

 

49:40:00

 

50:26:40

 

11:26:40

 

00:45:47

 

 

43

 

RA3

 

MER

 

MAR

 

KET

 

61:53:20

 

62:40:00

 

11:46:40

 

00:47:07

 

 

51

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

KET

 

74:26:40

 

75:13:20

 

10:33:20

 

00:42:13

 

 

59

 

RA3

 

MER

 

JUP

 

KET

 

85:46:40

 

86:33:20

 

10:46:40

 

00:43:07

 

 

68

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

KET

 

97:20:00

 

98:06:40

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

76

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

KET

 

108:33:20

 

109:20:00

 

10:40:00

 

00:42:40

 

 

2

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

VEN

 

00:46:40

 

03:00:00

 

10:20:00

 

00:41:20

 

 

10

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

VEN

 

13:20:00

 

15:33:20

 

22:13:20

 

01:28:53

 

 

28

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

SUN

 

VEN

 

37:46:40

 

40:00:00

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

36

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

VEN

 

50:26:40

 

52:40:00

 

10:00:00

 

00:40:00

 

 

44

 

RA3

 

MER

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

62:40:00

 

64:53:20

 

10:20:00

 

00:41:20

 

 

52

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

VEN

 

75:13:20

 

77:26:40

 

09:06:40

 

00:36:27

 

 

60

 

RA3

 

MER

 

JUP

 

VEN

 

86:33:20

 

88:46:40

 

09:20:00

 

00:37:20

 

 

69

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

VEN

 

98:06:40

 

100:20:00

 

09:00:00

 

00:36:00

 

 

77

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

VEN

 

109:20:00

 

111:33:20

 

08:26:40

 

00:33:47

 

 

3

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

SUN

 

03:00:00

 

03:40:00

 

11:53:20

 

00:47:33

 

 

11

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

SUN

 

15:33:20

 

16:13:20

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

19

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

SUN

 

SUN

 

26:40:00

 

27:20:00

 

25:20:00

 

01:41:20

 

 

37

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

SUN

 

52:40:00

 

53:20:00

 

11:33:20

 

00:46:13

 

 

45

 

RA3

 

MER

 

MAR

 

SUN

 

64:53:20

 

65:33:20

 

11:53:20

 

00:47:33

 

 

53

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

SUN

 

77:26:40

 

78:06:40

 

10:40:00

 

00:42:40

 

 

61

 

RA3

 

MER

 

JUP

 

SUN

 

88:46:40

 

89:26:40

 

10:53:20

 

00:43:33

 

 

70

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

SUN

 

100:20:00

 

101:00:00

 

10:33:20

 

00:42:13

 

 

78

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

SUN

 

111:33:20

 

112:13:20

 

07:46:40

 

00:31:07

 

 

4

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

MOO

 

03:40:00

 

04:46:40

 

11:26:40

 

00:45:47

 

 

12

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

16:13:20

 

17:20:00

 

10:00:00

 

00:40:00

 

 

20

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

SUN

 

MOO

 

27:20:00

 

28:26:40

 

11:33:20

 

00:46:13

 

 

29

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

MOO

 

40:00:00

 

41:06:40

 

24:26:40

 

01:37:47

 

 

46

 

RA3

 

MER

 

MAR

 

MOO

 

65:33:20

 

66:40:00

 

11:26:40

 

00:45:47

 

 

54

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

MOO

 

78:06:40

 

79:13:20

 

10:13:20

 

00:40:53

 

 

62

 

RA3

 

MER

 

JUP

 

MOO

 

89:26:40

 

90:00:00

 

00:00:00

 

00:00:00

 

 

63

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

JUP

 

MOO

 

90:00:00

 

90:33:20

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

71

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

MOO

 

101:00:00

 

102:06:40

 

10:06:40

 

00:40:27

 

 

79

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

MOO

 

112:13:20

 

113:20:00

 

06:40:00

 

00:26:40

 

 

5

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

MAR

 

04:46:40

 

05:33:20

 

11:46:40

 

00:47:07

 

 

13

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

MAR

 

17:20:00

 

18:06:40

 

10:20:00

 

00:41:20

 

 

21

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

SUN

 

MAR

 

28:26:40

 

29:13:20

 

11:53:20

 

00:47:33

 

 

30

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

MAR

 

41:06:40

 

41:53:20

 

11:26:40

 

00:45:47

 

 

38

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MAR

 

MAR

 

53:20:00

 

54:06:40

 

25:06:40

 

01:40:27

 

 

55

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

MAR

 

79:13:20

 

80:00:00

 

10:33:20

 

00:42:13

 

 

64

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

JUP

 

MAR

 

90:33:20

 

91:20:00

 

10:46:40

 

00:43:07

 

 

72

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

MAR

 

102:06:40

 

102:53:20

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

80

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

MAR

 

113:20:00

 

114:06:40

 

05:53:20

 

00:23:33

 

 

6

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

RAH

 

05:33:20

 

07:33:20

 

10:33:20

 

00:42:13

 

 

14

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

RAH

 

18:06:40

 

20:06:40

 

09:06:40

 

00:36:27

 

 

22

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

SUN

 

RAH

 

29:13:20

 

30:00:00

 

00:00:00

 

00:00:00

 

 

23

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

SUN

 

RAH

 

30:00:00

 

31:13:20

 

10:40:00

 

00:42:40

 

 

31

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

RAH

 

41:53:20

 

43:53:20

 

10:13:20

 

00:40:53

 

 

39

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MAR

 

RAH

 

54:06:40

 

56:06:40

 

10:33:20

 

00:42:13

 

 

47

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

RAH

 

66:40:00

 

68:40:00

 

22:40:00

 

01:30:40

 

 

65

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

JUP

 

RAH

 

91:20:00

 

93:20:00

 

09:33:20

 

00:38:13

 

 

73

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

RAH

 

102:53:20

 

104:53:20

 

09:13:20

 

00:36:53

 

 

81

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

RAH

 

114:06:40

 

116:06:40

 

03:53:20

 

00:15:33

 

 

7

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

JUP

 

07:33:20

 

09:20:00

 

10:46:40

 

00:43:07

 

 

15

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

JUP

 

20:06:40

 

21:53:20

 

09:20:00

 

00:37:20

 

 

24

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

SUN

 

JUP

 

31:13:20

 

33:00:00

 

10:53:20

 

00:43:33

 

 

32

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

JUP

 

43:53:20

 

45:40:00

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

40

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MAR

 

JUP

 

56:06:40

 

57:53:20

 

10:46:40

 

00:43:07

 

 

48

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

JUP

 

68:40:00

 

70:26:40

 

09:33:20

 

00:38:13

 

 

56

 

RA3

 

MER

 

JUP

 

JUP

 

80:00:00

 

81:46:40

 

23:06:40

 

01:32:27

 

 

74

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

JUP

 

104:53:20

 

106:40:00

 

09:26:40

 

00:37:47

 

 

82

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

JUP

 

116:06:40

 

117:53:20

 

02:06:40

 

00:08:27

 

 

8

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

SAT

 

09:20:00

 

11:26:40

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

16

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

SAT

 

21:53:20

 

24:00:00

 

09:00:00

 

00:36:00

 

 

25

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

SUN

 

SAT

 

33:00:00

 

35:06:40

 

10:33:20

 

00:42:13

 

 

33

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

45:40:00

 

47:46:40

 

10:06:40

 

00:40:27

 

 

41

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MAR

 

SAT

 

57:53:20

 

60:00:00

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

49

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

SAT

 

70:26:40

 

72:33:20

 

09:13:20

 

00:36:53

 

 

57

 

RA3

 

MER

 

JUP

 

SAT

 

81:46:40

 

83:53:20

 

09:26:40

 

00:37:47

 

 

66

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

SAT

 

93:20:00

 

95:26:40

 

22:26:40

 

01:29:47

 

 

83

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

SAT

 

117:53:20

 

120:00:00

 

00:00:00

 

00:00:00

 

 

9

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

MER

 

11:26:40

 

13:20:00

 

10:40:00

 

00:42:40

 

 

17

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

MER

 

24:00:00

 

25:53:20

 

09:13:20

 

00:36:53

 

 

26

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

SUN

 

MER

 

35:06:40

 

37:00:00

 

10:46:40

 

00:43:07

 

 

34

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

MER

 

47:46:40

 

49:40:00

 

10:20:00

 

00:41:20

 

 

42

 

RA3

 

MER

 

MAR

 

MER

 

60:00:00

 

61:53:20

 

10:40:00

 

00:42:40

 

 

50

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

MER

 

72:33:20

 

74:26:40

 

09:26:40

 

00:37:47

 

 

58

 

RA3

 

MER

 

JUP

 

MER

 

83:53:20

 

85:46:40

 

09:40:00

 

00:38:40

 

 

67

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

MER

 

95:26:40

 

97:20:00

 

09:20:00

 

00:37:20

 

 

75

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

MER

 

106:40:00

 

108:33:20

 

11:26:40

 

00:45:47

Let us consider that the MOON is occupied in the SUN star as mentioned above with the position (say 27:20:00 SUN Star MOO-Sub). The Balance degree in the star works out to 12:40:00. So the ascendant for all the places around the world will complete one full circle that is 360 Degree at the same time the MOON might have completed 11 Degree only with balance of 1:40:00 in the same star. Whenever the ascendant of any place around the world comes closer to the MOON position within the proximity range for about 25:20:00 Degrees corresponding to 01:41:20 hrs (refer above table Hr.No 19 - maximum case) and 07:46:40 Degrees corresponding to 00:31:07 hrs (refer above table Hr.No 78 - minimum case) there should not be any birth to happen in those places except other locations where the ascendant is not closer to the MOON position within the proximity range. This means that for any birth chart the ascendant and

MOON position will never be conjoined within this 25:20:00 Degrees (Max. Case) to 07:46:40 Degrees (Min case) orb except the special case Rapt Conjunction (0 to 00:40:00 Deg) when the MOON is in the same star & Sub (say SUN Star SUN Sub). This indicates that there is always an offset in the birth time for about 00:31:07 hrs to 01:41:20 hrs except for the Special case.

This shows that there is a sequence of Birth should happen around the world whenever the ascendant of any place around the world comes closer to the MOON position within the proximity range except other places. IS THIS POSSIBLE????

For Example:

How will you fix BTR for the person born with CANCER, SCRPIO, PIECES Moon sign with JUP as STAR lord & RAH as sub whose ascendant also in the same Sign-star-sub or just one sub offset (plus+ or minus-) position? (This point was already raised in the below mentioned URL)

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959

 

 

 

Hr.No.

 

Sgn:Str:Sub

 

Degree

 

 

56

 

MER:JUP:JUP

 

080:00:00

 

 

57

 

MER:JUP:SAT

 

081:46:40

 

 

58

 

MER:JUP:MER

 

083:53:20

 

 

59

 

MER:JUP:KET

 

085:46:40

 

 

60

 

MER:JUP:VEN

 

086:33:20

 

 

61

 

MER:JUP:SUN

 

088:46:40

 

 

62

 

MER:JUP:MOO

 

089:26:40

 

 

63

 

MOO:JUP:MOO

 

090:00:00

 

 

64

 

MOO:JUP:MAR

 

090:33:20

 

 

65

 

MOO:JUP:RAH

 

091:20:00

 

 

66

 

MOO:SAT:SAT

 

093:20:00

 

 

67

 

MOO:SAT:MER

 

095:26:40

 

 

68

 

MOO:SAT:KET

 

097:20:00

 

 

69

 

MOO:SAT:VEN

 

098:06:40

 

 

70

 

MOO:SAT:SUN

 

100:20:00

 

 

71

 

MOO:SAT:MOO

 

101:00:00

 

 

72

 

MOO:SAT:MAR

 

102:06:40

 

 

73

 

MOO:SAT:RAH

 

102:53:20

 

 

74

 

MOO:SAT:JUP

 

104:53:20

If we look at the sub table (given above), Suppose the birth (Natal) chart moon position is in MOO-JUP-RAH (the degree is 91:20:00) then as per the rule one can fix the ascendant either in MER-JUP-JUP( the degree is 80:00:00) or in MOO-SAT-JUP( the degree is 104:53:20). The highest difference is 13.5 deg (say), which will give roughly 54min time offset. As per this no birth should happen in this time zone in those places.

How this is correct? Request PUNIT/members to come to the conclusion whether to REJECT this Rule (which I have REJRCTED already) or Keep this Rule for further study (Personally I don’t find any scope/logic in this RULE to retain or to continue). If we don’t REJECT/ ELIMINATE this Rule now, then till the end of our last breath including our followers/beginners will be discussing about ‘N’ numbers of RBT rules and only more confusion can arise and solution may not be reached. We have to eliminate one by one and keep few/minimum RBT rules that may work well. For this our VGR has started some exercise request members to participate to find the way forward. I salute Mr.Subhash Ektare for raising very good logical question who made me to think further deep in the subject matter and to present this in appropriate manner. While doing this study have found some interesting things which I don’t want to rise now to avoid diverting the present topic before closing it. Note to Punit:

======== This message may get truncated after some time due to 64KB size limit. Please advise how to retain the message contents.(may be uploaded in Studies folder any other way?) My personal opinion is that each topic must be closed with some extend to move on the next topic but for this member’s support/contributio n is essential otherwise the purpose of discussion will be lost or held at midway. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil--- On Wed, 12/23/09, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ > wrote:

Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.comWednesday, December 23, 2009, 7:17 AM

 

 

Dear Senthil ji/Misra ji and Members,

 

Please excuse me for the interference. I missed these messages because I was travelling during that time and so could not comment. First, let it be clear that I am not a propagator of the Theory "Asc sub=Moon Star etc" nor I want to comment on it. Secondly I have no personal grudge against any member.

 

Mr. Senthil ji has given very nice, mathematically perfect presentation! ! Hats off to him. However I cannot to conclusion drawn, for following reasons. (Please refer message # 29225)

 

1. It is assumed that Sun Sub (which is lasting for 1h:25m:20 s) is acting simultaneously in whole world. And for remaining 27h:34m:40s there is no Sun sub acting anywhere in the world. This is possible only when exact same degree of Ascendant rises all over the world at a given time which is impossible.

 

2. Total No Birth Time Zone ( 22h;48m in the case of Sun sub) calculated will be applicable for the place where Ascendant movement for the period of about 29 hours is surveyed. In fact during this so called Total No Birth Time Zone.......at many other places in the world Sun sub for the Ascendant will be acting at some time or the other.

 

Request senior members to correct me if I am wrong.

Actually what Mr. VGR Pavan is doing is correct way of verifying which BTR method is consistent enough to be accepted. I appeal all members to participate and make it a success.

Regards

Subhash Ektare

 

 

 

Senthil <athi_ram >@gro ups.comTue, December 22, 2009 4:26:35 PMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Misra,

 

Please go through the link given below then you can understand yourself.

 

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 29217

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 29225

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 9596

 

GOOD LUCK!

 

D.Senthil--- On Tue, 12/22/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.com> wrote:

Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.com>Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.comTuesday, December 22, 2009, 6:44 AM

 

 

 

D.Senthil Ji, // Asc Sub= Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub= Moon Su //Please you may kindly be pleased to make it clear as to why the above rule does apply in most of the cases and it fails in few cases only.

With thanks & regards,

Dhirendra Nath Misra

 

 

 

 

 

Senthil <athi_ram >@gro ups.comTue, December 22, 2009 6:09:07 AMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Lajmi,

 

I will not accept the RULE of Asc Sub = Moon STAR & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub even it is recommended by Prof. KSK.

 

I will say it is a MEANING LESS, NO LOGIC & WASTE RULE ONLY. I have DISPROVED it and many members in the year 2005-2006 have also DISPROVED.

 

Kindly note that i don't have any personal feelings on anyone including you except the RULE (Asc Sub= Moob Star & Asc Sub-Sub= Moon Sub).

 

GOOD LUCK!

 

D.Senthil

--- On Mon, 12/21/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.comCc: "tw853" <tw853 >Monday, December 21, 2009, 6:42 AM

 

 

Dear TW,

Your letter is discussing totally irrelevant data,what the Baptism record says, is based on the information supplied by the parents,and not GOD ALMIGHTY... or Sunnat got to do with the astrologically correct Time of Birth,the reliability of both is doubtful...

In the Punjab and in Pakistan the Birth day used to be recorded as the day on which mundan is performed,anywhere between the real age is 1 to 3 or even 4 years... !

We are discussing K.P., not religious customs...which are what they are known to be...!

And for your information, our Guruji has recommended the method I have suggested,

and has been found to be very accurate by most K.P. followers,except Punit,you and your supporters in this column...

After my letter to Punit,based on this,he is going to check and verify whether this method is successful or not and he will be using the Birth Charts of persons and friends he know details about by using the K.P. Rectification method...

Let us await his observations. ..

Till then let us discuss the new topic I have begun and suggested we take up...

"How to assess the the quantum of the benefits,a 'benefic' planet will bestow upon the native of a chart under scrutiny..."

Surely this discussion will be very beneficial to all practitioners of K.P.,to give a more accurate assessment of the quantum of benefits...etc.

With best wishes,

Yogesh Lajmi

GOOD LUCK !

 

 

 

 

TW <tw853 >@gro ups.comMon, 21 December, 2009 4:21:17 AM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Dear Friends,1."AA --- Accurate data as recorded by the family or state. This includes BC (birth certificate) , and BR (birth record), that which is not an official document but a quote of the birth record from the Registrar or Bureau of Records, the baptismal certificate, family Bible, or baby book. These data reflect the best available accuracy." 2. As the astrological research computer program is not yet available, we apply a SIMPLE METHOD in our research study by checking chart by chart, as done by our Gurus and Church of Light (Astrology, 30 Years Research), whether each of the following definitions is met (tallied) or not, without any assumption or anything else.Moon Star = ASC Sub Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 16092?threaded= 1 & l=1

Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule.doc (File section)Explanation of the Test Results3. In Astrological Statistical Research, there are the simple method and the proper statistical analysis, as mention in the point 1 and 2 of:A Study of 100 Prisoner Charts.doc (File section)Thanks and regards,TW@gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Suprakash ji,> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and> better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you> want to do it?> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please> suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of> connection, we can

again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your> suggestions incorporated.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <> suprakash.ghosh@ ...> wrote:> > >> >> > Dear Punit ji> >> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the> > basic conditions assumed during the test.> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the> > genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts been> > analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is> > that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between> > moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt> > conjunction. Was all the

charts analysed in this way?> >> > If not, then the test has no relevance.> >> > Regards> >> > Suprakash> >> >> >> > -> > ** Punit Pandey <punitp> > *To:* @gro ups.com> > *Sent:* Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> > *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >> > Dear Suresh ji,> >> > Please see your post (> > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047). I quote -> >> > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by

Lajmiji is practicable as> > well as logical."> > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the> > wheel."> > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited> > and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research> > on the subject is surprising."> >> > *Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and the study> > found that the method doesn't work.* Please see the file section and you> > can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study> > found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. *That is the reason I say> > that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.* Your opinion (point> > no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following them "blindly"> > which also means following incorrect

methods.> >> > *What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of> > available methods.* People who are marketing their methods for a long> > time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may> > not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of> > KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating> > in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum> > loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must> > participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we> > will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win.> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh

<hattangadi_ suresh@.. .>wrote:> >> >>> >>> >> Dear Punitji,> >> I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not> >> read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But> >> again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years> >> experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his> >> experience.. My only point is research done in so many directions may not be> >> conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently> >> by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post.> >> Suresh Hattangadi> >>> >>> > > >>

 

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Dear Members,

The RULE,

 

"Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"

 

Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you apply the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point in saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a USLESS RULE ONLY.

 

GOOD LUCK!!

 

 

D.Senthil

 

 

--- On Mon, 12/28/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra wrote:

Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisraRe: Re: What is the correct birth time? Date: Monday, December 28, 2009, 6:54 AM

 

 

 

Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3 minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth time further for different ayanamsas.

With thanks & regards,

Dhirendra Nath Misra

 

 

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>@gro ups.comSun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark. Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before I pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect. Bhaskar.@gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> wrote:>> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?> > Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested ? Good.> > Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all

physical checking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, we must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ? Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?> > Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia to predict ? > > If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of astrology are we into ?> > And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think whatever you predict will be right ?> >

Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one. He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper. > > Bhaskar.> > > > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh" <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> >> > Dear Punitji> > > > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual time of first cry.> > > > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> > > > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> > c) A in sign of B and B in

sign of A > > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orb with C> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with specified orb)> > > > > > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> >

Re: What is the correct birth time?> > > > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > > > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you want to do it?> > > > > > > > > > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your suggestions incorporated. > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > > > > > > > Dear Punit ji> >

> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the basic conditions assumed during the test.> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way? > > > > If not, then the test has no relevance.> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > > > > > > > > > Dear Suresh ji,> > > > Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047). I quote -> > > > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical."> > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel."> > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising."> > > > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon

connection method "most often" and the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is the reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts. Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods. > > > > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this

scale and we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win. > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@> wrote:> > > > > > Dear Punitji,> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent

post. > > Suresh Hattangadi> >>

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Dear Memebrs,

 

//After all , the rule stated by Lajmiji is based on RP ..............//

 

To be very clear, It is based on Birth Chart RP only. The RULE is giving very simple relation between the NATAL chart data only. That is

 

"Natal Asc Sub = Natal Moon Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal Moon Sub"

 

Please refer files section Word file,

 

Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule.docx

 

& the URL given below.

 

/message/16098?threaded=1

/message/17262?threaded=1

/message/20847?threaded=1 & l=1

/message/22223?threaded=1 & l=1

/message/28249?threaded=1 & l=1

 

GOOD LUCK!!

 

D.Senthil--- On Mon, 12/28/09, Subha <suprakash.ghosh wrote:

Subha <suprakash.ghosh Re: What is the correct birth time? Date: Monday, December 28, 2009, 8:34 AM

Punit jiNo , it does not mean that.The relations are just to locate the most representative planet for star/sub lord of moon.After all , the rule stated by Lajmiji is based on RP and RP doesn't always indicate in a streight way. Even Rahu / Ketu may represent Moon star or sublord .Take my conditions as:A = RP moon StarlordB= Expected sub lord in Natal ChartIf A and B have relations as per the rules mentioned by me (please note and stress the 'AND' conditions), we should not blindly put A in place of asc sub lord. Instead, B, a planet not appeared as moon star lord may become strong contender for sub position as well.The same logic is for finding SS lord also.Hope I can clear your doubt.RegardsSuprakash@gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Suprakash ji,> > I do not understand how you will use point 'a' to 'h' in case of> ascendnat-moon connection rule?> > Does it mean that -> > Ascedant sub lord can be> 0) moon's star> a) in the star of Moon's star> b) in sub of Moon's star> c) in sign Moon's star> c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa [this is not KP, so> ignoring this]> d) Ascendant sub conjoins Moon's star> e) A third planet is in orb of ascedant sub and moon's star> f) ascendant sub aspects moon's star (vedic)> g) moon's star aspects ascedant sub (vedic)> f) ascendant sub aspects moon's star (vedic)> g) moon's star aspects ascedant sub (vedic)> > If my understanding is correct, at least in the

case of ascendant-moon rule> it doesn't make sense because one of the above condition will be always> going to be satisfied. So many rule, makes almost any time correct. You have> mentioned so many conditions.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Suprakash Ghosh <> suprakash.ghosh@ ...> wrote:> > >> >> > Dear Punitji> >> > *Collection of reliable birth data* : we need to have connection with> > nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual time of> > first cry.> >> > *As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :*> >> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A> > c-1)A in

sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planet C is> > inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orb with C> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with specified> > orb)> >> >> >> > Regards> >> > Suprakash> >> >> >> > -> > ** Punit Pandey <punitp> > *To:* @gro ups.com> > *Sent:* Sunday, December 20,

2009 3:32 PM> > *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >> > Dear Suprakash ji,> >> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and> > better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you> > want to do it?> >> >> >> >> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please> > suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of> > connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your> > suggestions incorporated.> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <> > suprakash.ghosh@ ...> wrote:>

>> >>> >>> >> Dear Punit ji> >>> >> Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the> >> basic conditions assumed during the test.> >> Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the> >> genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts been> >> analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is> >> that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between> >> moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt> >> conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way?> >>> >> If not, then the test has no relevance.> >>> >> Regards> >>> >> Suprakash> >>> >>>

>>> >> -> >> ** Punit Pandey <punitp> >> *To:* @gro ups.com> >> *Sent:* Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> >> *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?> >>> >>> >>> >> Dear Suresh ji,> >>> >> Please see your post (> >> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047). I quote -> >>> >> 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as> >> well as logical."> >> 2. "Suggesting

further research in this matter is like re-inventing the> >> wheel."> >> 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited> >> and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research> >> on the subject is surprising."> >>> >> *Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and the> >> study found that the method doesn't work.* Please see the file section> >> and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but> >> what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. *That is the> >> reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.* Your> >> opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following> >> them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods.> >>>

>> *What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of> >> available methods.* People who are marketing their methods for a long> >> time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may> >> not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of> >> KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating> >> in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum> >> loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must> >> participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we> >> will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win.> >>> >> Thanks & Regards,> >>> >> Punit Pandey> >>> >>> >> On Thu, Dec

17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@.. .>wrote:> >>> >>>> >>>> >>> Dear Punitji,> >>> I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not> >>> read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But> >>> again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years> >>> experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his> >>> experience.My only point is research done in so many directions may not be> >>> conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently> >>> by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post.> >>> Suresh Hattangadi> >>>> >>>> >>> > >

>>

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Dear Dhirendranath,

That is precisely why I have been suggesting since long,that we all get together and establish the most acceptable Ayanamsa Value,based upon the correct value of the precession of the Equinoxes...OR on the collective experience of the majority of us...

But members seem to be busy elsewhere,perhaps the continued raging of this controversy,serves the interests of many among us... ?

Yogesh Lajmi.

 

 

 

Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra Sent: Mon, 28 December, 2009 8:24:57 PMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3 minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth time further for different ayanamsas.

With thanks & regards,

Dhirendra Nath Misra

 

 

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>@gro ups.comSun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark. Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before I pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect. Bhaskar.@gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> wrote:>> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?> > Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested ? Good.> > Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical checking before pronouncing

whether a mother will have child or not, we must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ? Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?> > Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia to predict ? > > If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of astrology are we into ?> > And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think whatever you predict will be right ?> > Boss this is not astrology. An

astrologer needs to speak to no one. He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper. > > Bhaskar.> > > > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh" <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> >> > Dear Punitji> > > > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual time of first cry.> > > > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> > > > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A > > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in

navamsa> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orb with C> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with specified orb)> > > > > > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > > > > >

> > > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > > > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you want to do it?> > > > > > > > > > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your suggestions incorporated. > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > > > > > > > Dear Punit ji> > > > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the basic

conditions assumed during the test.> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way? > > > > If not, then the test has no relevance.> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> > Re:

What is the correct birth time?> > > > > > > > > > Dear Suresh ji,> > > > Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047). I quote -> > > > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical."> > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel."> > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising."> > > > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were

advocating it fiercely but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is the reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts. Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods. > > > > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally

the KP will win. > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@> wrote:> > > > > > Dear Punitji,> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post. > > Suresh Hattangadi> >>

 

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the file referred to cannot open with *.docxPl convert it to word format and post it.Swamynathan--- On Tue, 29/12/09, Senthil <athi_ram wrote:Senthil <athi_ramRe: Re: What is the correct birth time? Date: Tuesday, 29 December, 2009, 6:17 AM

 

 

Dear Memebrs,

 

//After all , the rule stated by Lajmiji is based on RP ............ ..//

 

To be very clear, It is based on Birth Chart RP only. The RULE is giving very simple relation between the NATAL chart data only. That is

 

"Natal Asc Sub = Natal Moon Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal Moon Sub"

 

Please refer files section Word file,

 

Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule.docx

 

& the URL given below.

 

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 16098?threaded= 1

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 17262?threaded= 1

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20847?threaded= 1 & l=1

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22223?threaded= 1 & l=1

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28249?threaded= 1 & l=1

GOOD LUCK!!

 

D.Senthil--- On Mon, 12/28/09, Subha <suprakash.ghosh@ cesc.co.in> wrote:

Subha <suprakash.ghosh@ cesc.co.in> Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.comMonday, December 28, 2009, 8:34 AM

Punit jiNo , it does not mean that.The relations are just to locate the most representative planet for star/sub lord of moon.After all , the rule stated by Lajmiji is based on RP and RP doesn't always indicate in a streight way. Even Rahu / Ketu may represent Moon star or sublord .Take my conditions as:A = RP moon StarlordB= Expected sub lord in Natal ChartIf A and B have relations as per the rules mentioned by me (please note and stress the 'AND' conditions), we should not blindly put A in place of asc sub lord. Instead, B, a planet not appeared as moon star lord may become strong contender for sub position as well.The same logic is for finding SS lord also.Hope I can clear your doubt.RegardsSuprakash@gro ups.com, Punit Pandey

<punitp wrote:>> Dear Suprakash ji,> > I do not understand how you will use point 'a' to 'h' in case of> ascendnat-moon connection rule?> > Does it mean that -> > Ascedant sub lord can be> 0) moon's star> a) in the star of Moon's star> b) in sub of Moon's star> c) in sign Moon's star> c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa [this is not KP, so> ignoring this]> d) Ascendant sub conjoins Moon's star> e) A third planet is in orb of ascedant sub and moon's star> f) ascendant sub aspects moon's star (vedic)> g) moon's star aspects ascedant sub (vedic)> f) ascendant sub aspects moon's star (vedic)> g) moon's star aspects ascedant sub (vedic)> > If my understanding is correct, at least in the

case of ascendant-moon rule> it doesn't make sense because one of the above condition will be always> going to be satisfied. So many rule, makes almost any time correct. You have> mentioned so many conditions.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Suprakash Ghosh <> suprakash.ghosh@ ...> wrote:> > >> >> > Dear Punitji> >> > *Collection of reliable birth data* : we need to have connection with> > nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual time of> > first cry.> >> > *As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :*> >> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A> > c-1)A in

sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planet C is> > inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orb with C> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with specified> > orb)> >> >> >> > Regards> >> > Suprakash> >> >> >> > -> > ** Punit Pandey <punitp> > *To:* @gro ups.com> > *Sent:* Sunday, December 20,

2009 3:32 PM> > *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >> > Dear Suprakash ji,> >> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and> > better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you> > want to do it?> >> >> >> >> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please> > suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of> > connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your> > suggestions incorporated.> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <> > suprakash.ghosh@ ...> wrote:>

>> >>> >>> >> Dear Punit ji> >>> >> Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the> >> basic conditions assumed during the test.> >> Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the> >> genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts been> >> analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is> >> that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between> >> moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt> >> conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way?> >>> >> If not, then the test has no relevance.> >>> >> Regards> >>> >> Suprakash> >>> >>>

>>> >> -> >> ** Punit Pandey <punitp> >> *To:* @gro ups.com> >> *Sent:* Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> >> *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?> >>> >>> >>> >> Dear Suresh ji,> >>> >> Please see your post (> >> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047). I quote -> >>> >> 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as> >> well as logical."> >> 2. "Suggesting

further research in this matter is like re-inventing the> >> wheel."> >> 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited> >> and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research> >> on the subject is surprising."> >>> >> *Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and the> >> study found that the method doesn't work.* Please see the file section> >> and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but> >> what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. *That is the> >> reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.* Your> >> opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following> >> them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods.> >>>

>> *What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of> >> available methods.* People who are marketing their methods for a long> >> time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may> >> not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of> >> KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating> >> in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum> >> loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must> >> participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we> >> will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win.> >>> >> Thanks & Regards,> >>> >> Punit Pandey> >>> >>> >> On Thu, Dec

17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@.. .>wrote:> >>> >>>> >>>> >>> Dear Punitji,> >>> I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not> >>> read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But> >>> again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years> >>> experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his> >>> experience.My only point is research done in so many directions may not be> >>> conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently> >>> by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post.> >>> Suresh Hattangadi> >>>> >>>> >>> > >

>>

 

 

 

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Dear members

 

is there any thing called lucky name in kp

initally i thought it (name no.) should signify the improving houses

also it should not signify 6,8,12h

should it signify 11h

pls clarifylarrons

 

 

 

Senthil <athi_ram Sent: Tue, 29 December, 2009 5:59:23 AMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Members,

The RULE,

 

"Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"

 

Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you apply the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point in saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a USLESS RULE ONLY.

 

GOOD LUCK!!

 

 

D.Senthil

 

 

--- On Mon, 12/28/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.com> wrote:

Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.com>Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.comMonday, December 28, 2009, 6:54 AM

 

 

 

Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3 minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth time further for different ayanamsas.

With thanks & regards,

Dhirendra Nath Misra

 

 

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>@gro ups.comSun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark. Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before I pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect. Bhaskar.@gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> wrote:>> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?> > Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested ? Good.> > Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical checking before pronouncing whether a

mother will have child or not, we must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ? Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?> > Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia to predict ? > > If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of astrology are we into ?> > And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think whatever you predict will be right ?> > Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs

to speak to no one. He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper. > > Bhaskar.> > > > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh" <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> >> > Dear Punitji> > > > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual time of first cry.> > > > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> > > > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A > > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> > d) A conj

B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orb with C> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with specified orb)> > > > > > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > > > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash

ji,> > > > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you want to do it?> > > > > > > > > > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your suggestions incorporated. > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > > > > > > > Dear Punit ji> > > > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the basic conditions assumed during the test.> >

Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way? > > > > If not, then the test has no relevance.> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >

> > > > > > > > Dear Suresh ji,> > > > Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047). I quote -> > > > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical."> > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel."> > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising."> > > > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study found is just opposite. The

method doesn't work. That is the reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts. Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods. > > > > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win. > > > > Thanks &

Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@> wrote:> > > > > > Dear Punitji,> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post. > > Suresh Hattangadi> >>

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Dear D.Senthil Sir, // "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"

 

Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you apply the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point in saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a USLESS RULE ONLY. //

 

Can you once again shed some light on the above as to why we get in most of the cases "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub" even if there is no logic.Certainly in few cases the above condition does not apply and necessity arose to find out perfect rule beyond doubt.With thanks & regards,

Dhirendra Nath Misra

 

 

 

 

 

Senthil <athi_ram Sent: Tue, December 29, 2009 5:59:23 AMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Members,

The RULE,

 

"Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"

 

Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you apply the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point in saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a USLESS RULE ONLY.

 

GOOD LUCK!!

 

 

D.Senthil

 

 

--- On Mon, 12/28/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.com> wrote:

Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.com>Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.comMonday, December 28, 2009, 6:54 AM

 

 

 

Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3 minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth time further for different ayanamsas.

With thanks & regards,

Dhirendra Nath Misra

 

 

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>@gro ups.comSun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark. Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before I pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect. Bhaskar.@gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> wrote:>> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?> > Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested ? Good.> > Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical checking before pronouncing whether a

mother will have child or not, we must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ? Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?> > Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia to predict ? > > If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of astrology are we into ?> > And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think whatever you predict will be right ?> > Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs

to speak to no one. He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper. > > Bhaskar.> > > > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh" <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> >> > Dear Punitji> > > > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual time of first cry.> > > > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> > > > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A > > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> > d) A conj

B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orb with C> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with specified orb)> > > > > > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > > > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash

ji,> > > > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you want to do it?> > > > > > > > > > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your suggestions incorporated. > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > > > > > > > Dear Punit ji> > > > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the basic conditions assumed during the test.> >

Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way? > > > > If not, then the test has no relevance.> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >

> > > > > > > > Dear Suresh ji,> > > > Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047). I quote -> > > > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical."> > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel."> > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising."> > > > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study found is just opposite. The

method doesn't work. That is the reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts. Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods. > > > > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win. > > > > Thanks &

Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@> wrote:> > > > > > Dear Punitji,> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post. > > Suresh Hattangadi> >>

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Dear Bhaskar ji,

//The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3 minutes) only we can apply the above rule.//

With regard to above D.Senthil Ji has already replied as under :

 

 

 

 

Dear Members,

The RULE,

 

"Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"

 

Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you apply the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point in saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a USLESS RULE ONLY.

 

GOOD LUCK!!

 

 

D.Senthil

I have further requested him:

Can you once again shed some light on the above as to why we get in most of the cases "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub" even if there is no logic.Certainly in few cases the above condition does not apply and necessity arose to find out perfect rule beyond doubt.With thanks & regards,

Dhirendra Nath Misra

 

 

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 11:57:34 PM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Dear Mishra ji,//The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting recorded birthtime for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3 minutes)Â onlyÂwe can apply the above rule.//Please demonstrate the above statement by illustrating the above withtwo example horoscopes. I am unable to understand what great astrologyare we into that by shifting recorded birth time with few seconds we canmake any difference (Except for those cases where Cuspal sublordchanges) in the predictions. And in exceptional cases upto 3 minutes?Most of the cases will have time difference of recorded birth time andactual birth time within 2-5 minutes and not few seconds Sir.// Besides this the different astrologers will have to change therecorded/rectified birth time further for different ayanamsas.//Please xplain this. When we are talking in this Group, it is understoodthat apart from KP, we do not

talk about others. But yet, I request youto please explain your above statement with display of variousayanamshas, what is the intent of the above content ?regards,Bhaskar.@gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra<dhirendranathmisra wrote:>> Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shiftingrecorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this thedifferent astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birthtime further for different ayanamsas.> With thanks & regards,Â> Dhirendra Nath Misra> Â>>>>> ____________ _________ _________ __> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> @gro ups.com> Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM> Re: What is the correct birth time?>> Â> Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. Buttrying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half anhour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist whohas come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will lookat us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not readyto listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark.Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that thenatives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recordingof the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before Ipronounced

my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwiseI would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moonis not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift thetime to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect.>> Bhaskar.>> @gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>wrote:> >> > Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and youwill bring more respect on them with this excersise ?> >> > Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then notethe time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the deliveryroom ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested? Good.> >> > Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods andsuch topics, if only the first cry

is going to constitute the time ofBirth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? Andwhat is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going togo about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physicalchecking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, wemust ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated andbecome pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we mustcheck for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage ornot- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love isthere between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ?Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?> >> > Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Whycant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnaliato predict ?> >> > If you

are told the time of the first cry, only then you will beable to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type ofastrology are we into ?> >> > And after having known the time of the first cry, do You thinkwhatever you predict will be right ?> >> > Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one.He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his powerof discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.> >> > Bhaskar.> >> >> >> > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh"<suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > >> > > Dear Punitji> > >> > > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connectionwith nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actualtime of first cry.> > >> >

> As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> > >> > > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> > > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> > > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A> > > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> > > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> > > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planetC is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orbwith C> > > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> > > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> > > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,withspecified orb)> > >> > >> > >> > > Regards> > >> > > Suprakash> > >> > >> > > ----- Original

Message -----> > > Punit Pandey> > > @gro ups.com> > > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> > > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > >> > > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have anyalternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please letus know how you want to do it?> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc andMoon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we havethis definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moonconnection method with your suggestions incorporated.> > >> > > Thanks & Regards,>

> >> > > Punit Pandey> > >> > >> > >> > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh<suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Punit ji> > >> > > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let usknow the basic conditions assumed during the test.> > > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was thegenuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the chartsbeen analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean tosay is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparentlybetween moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchangedstars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way?> > >> > > If not, then the test has no

relevance.> > >> > > Regards> > >> > > Suprakash> > >> > >> > > -> > > Punit Pandey> > > @gro ups.com> > > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> > > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Suresh ji,> > >> > > Please see your post (http://groups. / group//message/ 30047). I quote -> > >> > > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji ispracticable as well as logical."> > > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is likere-inventing the wheel."> > > 3. "When KP stalwarts have

recommended a particular method as bestsuited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist furtherresearch on the subject is surprising."> > >> > > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" andthe study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the filesection and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercelybut what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That isthe reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommendfollowing them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods.> > >> > > What we are doing is not further research but merely verificationof available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a longtime, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. Itmay not be in

interest of those individuals but it is definitely ininterest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process andparticipating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attentionand making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale andwe all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of thisexercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally theKP will win.> > >> > > Thanks & Regards,> > >> > > Punit Pandey> > >> > >> > >> > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@>wrote:> > >> > >> > > Dear Punitji,> > > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviouslynot read full comment where I have said you can test this method forresults.But again obviously my

comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji,s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to questionvalue of his experience.My only point is research done in so manydirections may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data willbe interpreted differently by different people as will be evident if youhave read subsequent post.> > > Suresh Hattangadi> > >> >>

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Dear Mishra ji,

 

Logic or not, is a seperate matter, but - Where do we get this rule in

most cases ???

 

regards/Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

, Dhirendra Nath Misra

<dhirendranathmisra wrote:

>

> Dear D.Senthil Sir,

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

             Â

       // " Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star &

Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub "

> Â

> Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂ

the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG

ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂ

saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a

USLESS RULE ONLY. //

> Â

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

             Can

you once again shed some light on the above as to why we get in most

of the cases " Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub =

Natal MOON Sub " even if there is no logic.Certainly in few cases the

above condition does not apply and necessity arose to find outÂ

perfect rule beyond doubt.

> With thanks & regards,Â

> Dhirendra Nath Misra

> Â

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> Senthil athi_ram

>

> Tue, December 29, 2009 5:59:23 AM

> Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

> Â

> Dear Members,

>

> The RULE,

> Â

> " Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub "

> Â

> Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂ

the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG

ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂ

saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a

USLESS RULE ONLY.

> Â

> GOOD LUCK!!

>

>

> D.Senthil

>

>

>

> --- On Mon, 12/28/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@

ymail.com> wrote:

>

>

> >Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.com>

> >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >@gro ups.com

> >Monday, December 28, 2009, 6:54 AM

> >

> >

> >Â

> >Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting

recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3

minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the

different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth

time further for different ayanamsas.

> >With thanks & regards,Â

> >Dhirendra Nath Misra

> >Â

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> ________________________________

> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>

> >@gro ups.com

> >Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM

> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >

> >Â

> >Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But

trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an

hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who

has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look

at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready

to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark.

Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the

natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording

of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before I

pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise

I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon

is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the

time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect.

> >

> >Bhaskar.

> >

> >@gro ups.com, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>

wrote:

> >>

> >> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and

you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?

> >>

> >> Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note

the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery

room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested

? Good.

> >>

> >> Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and

such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of

Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And

what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to

go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical

checking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, we

must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and

become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must

check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or

not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is

there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ?

Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?

> >>

> >> Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why

cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia

to predict ?

> >>

> >> If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be

able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of

astrology are we into ?

> >>

> >> And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think

whatever you predict will be right ?

> >>

> >> Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one.

He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power

of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.

> >>

> >> Bhaskar.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> @gro ups.com, " Suprakash Ghosh "

<suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Dear Punitji

> >> >

> >> > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection

with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual

time of first cry.

> >> >

> >> > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :

> >> >

> >> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A

> >> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A

> >> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A

> >> > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa

> >> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)

> >> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third

planet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned

orb with C

> >> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)

> >> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)

> >> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with

specified orb)

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > Regards

> >> >

> >> > Suprakash

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > -

> >> > Punit Pandey

> >> > @gro ups.com

> >> > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM

> >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > Dear Suprakash ji,

> >> >

> >> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any

alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let

us know how you want to do it?

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and

Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have

this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon

connection method with your suggestions incorporated.

> >> >

> >> > Thanks & Regards,

> >> >

> >> > Punit Pandey

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh

<suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > Dear Punit ji

> >> >

> >> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us

know the basic conditions assumed during the test.

> >> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was

the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the

charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I

mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection

apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have

exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in

this way?

> >> >

> >> > If not, then the test has no relevance.

> >> >

> >> > Regards

> >> >

> >> > Suprakash

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > -

> >> > Punit Pandey

> >> > @gro ups.com

> >> > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM

> >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > Dear Suresh ji,

> >> >

> >> > Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_

system/message/ 30047). I quote -

> >> >

> >> > 1. " In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is

practicable as well as logical. "

> >> > 2. " Suggesting further research in this matter is like

re-inventing the wheel. "

> >> > 3. " When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as

best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist

further research on the subject is surprising. "

> >> >

> >> > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method " most often " and

the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file

section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely

but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is

the reason I say that we should not " blindly " follow even Stalwarts.

Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend

following them " blindly " which also means following incorrect methods.

> >> >

> >> > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification

of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long

time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It

may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in

interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and

participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention

and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and

we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this

exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the

KP will win.

> >> >

> >> > Thanks & Regards,

> >> >

> >> > Punit Pandey

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@>

wrote:

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > Dear Punitji,

> >> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have

obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this

method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw

nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem

to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so

many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data

will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident

if you have read subsequent post.

> >> > Suresh Hattangadi

> >> >

> >>

> >

> >

> >

>

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Dear Lazmi Ji,D.Senthil Ji,Punit Ji,Bhaskar Ji,Kalyan Ji,Tw Ji ,Dr.Rath Ji & other senior members,

I am fowarding birth particulars of my son recorded by my Bhabhi (Dr.Jay Sri) Ji who is a medical doctor and runs her own maternity center in Haldwani,District-Nainital at Mukhani.She records time of first cry of child as correct birth time.Thousands of birth time of first cry of babies may be collected from there.I may provide her cell No. if required to collect birth data of first cry.

Birth particular of my own son is as under:

[1] Male baby (Suyash)

DOB-06th April,1998

TOB-Recorded Time- 10:12AM[Recorded time of first cry]

POB-Haldwani,District-Nainital

Latitude-29N13

Longitude-79E31

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Asc-Sub lord= Moon sub lord=Venus

Asc sub sub lord =Moon star lord=Mercury

 

Other Birth Particulars,

 

[2]Daughter was born in hospital- Time of first cry was recorded

DOB-24th June,1995

TOB-10:56PM

POB-Basti,U.P

Latitude-26N48

Longitude 82E44

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Sun

Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub = Saturn

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

 

[3]My own

DOB-20th April,1959

TOB-08:15AM(Recorded Time) as noted in Janm Patri,Rectified by me as 08:15:56 AM for K.P Ayanamsa only.I think at that time watch was either slow by 56 seconds or watch had not hand showing time up to second.

POB-Basti,U.P,India.

Latitude-26N48

Longitude-82E44

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord = Venus

Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord =Saturn

 

[4]Female,National Institute of Health,Washington D.C

DOB-20.09.1977

POB-Mumbai

TOB-08:30:50AM

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Ketu

Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub =Venus

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

 

[5] K.S.Krishnamurty Ji

DOB-01-11-1908

TOB-12:07:30PM

POB-Thiruvayuru

Asc sub lord =Moon star lord=Moon

Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord = Mars

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

 

Does there any rule apply? Does recorded birth time of first cry reveal any rule or on what basis you can deny this time.More recorded time of first cry may be collected,if required for study.

 

With thanks & regards.

Dhirendra Nath Misra

 

 

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 11:57:34 PM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Dear Mishra ji,//The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting recorded birthtime for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3 minutes)Â onlyÂwe can apply the above rule.//Please demonstrate the above statement by illustrating the above withtwo example horoscopes. I am unable to understand what great astrologyare we into that by shifting recorded birth time with few seconds we canmake any difference (Except for those cases where Cuspal sublordchanges) in the predictions. And in exceptional cases upto 3 minutes?Most of the cases will have time difference of recorded birth time andactual birth time within 2-5 minutes and not few seconds Sir.// Besides this the different astrologers will have to change therecorded/rectified birth time further for different ayanamsas.//Please xplain this. When we are talking in this Group, it is understoodthat apart from KP, we do not

talk about others. But yet, I request youto please explain your above statement with display of variousayanamshas, what is the intent of the above content ?regards,Bhaskar.@gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra<dhirendranathmisra wrote:>> Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shiftingrecorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this thedifferent astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birthtime further for different ayanamsas.> With thanks & regards,Â> Dhirendra Nath Misra> Â>>>>> ____________ _________ _________ __> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> @gro ups.com> Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM> Re: What is the correct birth time?>> Â> Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. Buttrying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half anhour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist whohas come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will lookat us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not readyto listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark.Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that thenatives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recordingof the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before Ipronounced

my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwiseI would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moonis not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift thetime to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect.>> Bhaskar.>> @gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>wrote:> >> > Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and youwill bring more respect on them with this excersise ?> >> > Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then notethe time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the deliveryroom ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested? Good.> >> > Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods andsuch topics, if only the first cry

is going to constitute the time ofBirth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? Andwhat is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going togo about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physicalchecking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, wemust ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated andbecome pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we mustcheck for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage ornot- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love isthere between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ?Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?> >> > Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Whycant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnaliato predict ?> >> > If you

are told the time of the first cry, only then you will beable to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type ofastrology are we into ?> >> > And after having known the time of the first cry, do You thinkwhatever you predict will be right ?> >> > Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one.He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his powerof discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.> >> > Bhaskar.> >> >> >> > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh"<suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > >> > > Dear Punitji> > >> > > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connectionwith nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actualtime of first cry.> > >> >

> As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> > >> > > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> > > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> > > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A> > > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> > > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> > > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planetC is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orbwith C> > > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> > > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> > > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,withspecified orb)> > >> > >> > >> > > Regards> > >> > > Suprakash> > >> > >> > > ----- Original

Message -----> > > Punit Pandey> > > @gro ups.com> > > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> > > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > >> > > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have anyalternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please letus know how you want to do it?> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc andMoon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we havethis definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moonconnection method with your suggestions incorporated.> > >> > > Thanks & Regards,>

> >> > > Punit Pandey> > >> > >> > >> > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh<suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Punit ji> > >> > > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let usknow the basic conditions assumed during the test.> > > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was thegenuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the chartsbeen analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean tosay is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparentlybetween moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchangedstars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way?> > >> > > If not, then the test has no

relevance.> > >> > > Regards> > >> > > Suprakash> > >> > >> > > -> > > Punit Pandey> > > @gro ups.com> > > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> > > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Suresh ji,> > >> > > Please see your post (http://groups. / group//message/ 30047). I quote -> > >> > > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji ispracticable as well as logical."> > > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is likere-inventing the wheel."> > > 3. "When KP stalwarts have

recommended a particular method as bestsuited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist furtherresearch on the subject is surprising."> > >> > > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" andthe study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the filesection and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercelybut what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That isthe reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommendfollowing them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods.> > >> > > What we are doing is not further research but merely verificationof available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a longtime, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. Itmay not be in

interest of those individuals but it is definitely ininterest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process andparticipating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attentionand making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale andwe all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of thisexercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally theKP will win.> > >> > > Thanks & Regards,> > >> > > Punit Pandey> > >> > >> > >> > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@>wrote:> > >> > >> > > Dear Punitji,> > > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviouslynot read full comment where I have said you can test this method forresults.But again obviously my

comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji,s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to questionvalue of his experience.My only point is research done in so manydirections may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data willbe interpreted differently by different people as will be evident if youhave read subsequent post.> > > Suresh Hattangadi> > >> >>

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Dear Members,//I don't understand Mr.subhash ektare is talking with sense or not? Nowhere i have told latitude, longitude, time for the table. It is the simple SUB table for the first 120 Degree Sorted SUB wise and nothing in it. For the whole world our Zodiac is fixed(nirayana system).We have 27 stars & 9 Star lords only. Suppose if you take the MOON is in SUN star as per the subject RULE then wherever the degree position not having SUN sub lord will be called as "No Birth Zone" because as per the subject Rule, never ever fix the lagana in this range. So it is simple and 100% possible.//On 28th Dec 2009 Moon is in Sun star. Request Mr. Senthil ji to please explain how to calculate "NO Birth Zone"during the period of Moon's transit in Sun star (expressed in GMT ......not just the duration in Hr:Min:Sec) which is applicable universally...........//I have not told that he has fabricated the chart. The charts what he selected is 50 and 30min Case is only 2 Numbers only. So we can fill the charts as per our wish for example i can take 30 min case 95 charts and 5min 5 charts accordingly we can show the table.When the RULE is not working what is the point in shifting the time. It is simply generating % of errors only.//There seems to be

only solution for this, that Mr. Senthil ji select and give birth details for 100 charts or so to curb the errors.Thanks and regards,Subhash EktareSenthil

<athi_ram ; subhash_ektareCc: punitp; lyrastro1; tw853; vgr_pavan1Sent: Mon, December 28, 2009 5:05:21 AMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

Dear Members,

 

//Mr. Senthil ji has probably not read full sentence.... ..the first part of sentence says "This is not true in all cases, is a fact" //

 

//Asc sub lord should be only one i.e. Sun, Moon etc depending on star lord of the Moon. This is not true in all cases, is a fact........but possibility cannot be denied logically. //

 

I have studied the full text but 'Mr.subhash ektare' has put the last statement contradicting what he agreed the fact, which I have marked in red color(refer above). So now he accepted that this RULE has got no logic will not work. I thank subhash ektare for his understanding.

 

//Does this mean that any analysis based on actual charts is always fabricated? To suit the conclusions one wants to put forth? Then what shall be the basis of research? This is serious allegation against all researchers. //

 

I have not told that he has fabricated the chart. The charts what he selected is 50 and 30min Case is only 2 Numbers only. So we can fill the charts as per our wish for example i can take 30 min case 95 charts and 5min 5 charts accordingly we can show the table.When the RULE is not working what is the point in shifting the time. It is simply generating % of errors only.

 

//The table of Subs given by Mr Senthil ji is for a particular place. Thus so called "No Birth Zone" will naturally be for that particular place only, and not for entire world. Because during that "No Birth Zone" places will exist (on whole earth) where Asc sub will be Moon star lord. In my opinion it is impossible to calculate "No Birth Zone" for world as a whole.//

 

I don't understand Mr.subhash ektare is talking with sense or not? Nowhere i have told latitude, longitude, time for the table. It is the simple SUB table for the first 120 Degree Sorted SUB wise and nothing in it. For the whole world our Zodiac is fixed(nirayana system).We have 27 stars & 9 Star lords only. Suppose if you take the MOON is in SUN star as per the subject RULE then wherever the degree position not having SUN sub lord will be called as "No Birth Zone" because as per the subject Rule, never ever fix the lagana in this range. So it is simple and 100% possible.

 

//Point raised was for complete zodiac (360 deg) because it has mentioned Moon position in Cancer/Scorpio/ Pisces... ........not in "No Birth Zone". Hence it was logical to find percentage compared to 249 subs.//

 

Your understanding is wrong. I have put the Question "How will you fix BTR for the person born with CANCER, SCRPIO, PIECES Moon sign with JUP as STAR lord & RAH as sub"

 

It is not for the zodiac(360) it is for the area where "NO birth zone" is wide and if you use the Subject rule The lagna itself will change to different sign though it is not the case.Have you not seen charts having Moon & Asc in Same sign-star-sub or one 1 or 2 subs away??

 

//You have selected 50 charts and showing actually 30% to 86% is ERRORS ONLY(by using the RBT rule). Today I really learned from you, how to FOOL the innocents (even clever) by showing one mathematical comparison table.//

 

Mr. Senthil's way of looking to the fact is different than me. I see the glass half full while he sees it half empty. I am sure the members are intelligent enough to decide who is FOOLING the innocents.

 

When the RULE itself WRONG you are unnecessarily shifting the birth time to Birth Zone(to suit the rule) and obviously the error is 100%. Dear senior Members please tell me still this is not clear? So many man-hours wasted but nobody comments except few.

 

GOOD LUCK!!

 

D.Senthil

--- On Mon, 12/28/09, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ > wrote:

Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?"Senthil" <athi_ram >, @gro ups.comCc: punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com, lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) co.in, tw853 , vgr_pavan1 (AT) (DOT) co.inMonday, December 28, 2009, 2:38 AM

 

 

Dear Members,

 

//From your statement can understand that for the entire world the birth ascendant Sub lord always happen to be MOON star lord!!!!. But there is no possibility in it.//

 

Mr. Senthil ji has probably not read full sentence.... ..the first part of sentence says "This is not true in all cases, is a fact"

 

//You can see the study of AA rated charts as mentioned by Tin win in his various E-mails. For any RULEs we can always bring and present few charts to statisfy the required % as per our wish because in INDIA itself more than 100 crore people are available and getting charts is not a big deal. Even you can always do the same RBT exercise for the all AA rated charts presented by Tin win & others kept in our files section and same % may be brought. What is the point in it???//

 

Does this mean that any analysis based on actual charts is always fabricated? To suit the conclusions one wants to put forth? Then what shall be the basis of research? This is serious allegation against all researchers.

 

The table of Subs given by Mr Senthil ji is for a particular place. Thus so called "No Birth Zone" will naturally be for that particular place only, and not for entire world. Because during that "No Birth Zone" places will exist (on whole earth) where Asc sub will be Moon star lord. In my opinion it is impossible to calculate "No Birth Zone" for world as a whole.

 

//what you have taken is for 360 deg 249 subs.This is a simple math calculation. Here you have to take within one No Birth Zone. If you see the Duration/time wise can understand it well.//

 

Point raised was for complete zodiac (360 deg) because it has mentioned Moon position in Cancer/Scorpio/ Pisces... ........not in "No Birth Zone". Hence it was logical to find percentage compared to 249 subs.

 

//You have selected 50 charts and showing actually 30% to 86% is ERRORS ONLY(by using the RBT rule). Today I really learned from you, how to FOOL the innocents (even clever) by showing one mathematical comparison table.//

 

Mr. Senthil's way of looking to the fact is different than me. I see the glass half full while he sees it half empty. I am sure the members are intelligent enough to decide who is FOOLING the innocents.

 

I also do not have time and energy to continue this subject but I felt I should let the members know my views.

 

Regards

Subhash Ektare

 

 

 

 

Senthil <athi_ram >

 

@gro ups.comCc: subhash_ektare@ ; punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com; lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) co.in; tw853 ; vgr_pavan1 (AT) (DOT) co.inSat, December 26, 2009 11:50:32 AMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

Dear Subhash Ektare,

 

My replies are as given below.

 

//I agree with you that according to BTR Rule under consideration (Mr. Shanmugam's rule and subsequently modified by Lajmi ji)), for all births on a particular Moon star day......... .Asc sub lord should be only one i.e. Sun, Moon etc depending on star lord of the Moon. This is not true in all cases, is a fact........but possibility cannot be denied logically. //

 

From your statement can understand that for the entire world the birth ascendant Sub lord always happen to be MOON star lord!!!!. But there is no possibility in it. You can see the study of AA rated charts as mentioned by Tin win in his various E-mails. For any RULEs we can always bring and present few charts to statisfy the required % as per our wish because in INDIA itself more than 100 crore people are available and getting charts is not a big deal. Even you can always do the same RBT exercise for the all AA rated charts presented by Tin win & others kept in our files section and same % may be brought. What is the point in it???

 

//In the table of sub, I could not understand the calculations for Diff. in Deg and Duration columns. So cannot comment.//

 

Diff. in Deg = Start of Next Same Sub- End of Current Same Sub=(No Birth Zone) Duration for No Birth Zone = Diff. in Deg X 4 Min

 

I have noticed the ERROR in the Diff. in deg & duration for the last SUB of each planet except KET in my previous table which i have corrected and shown in BLUE color (Refer below given new part Table).

 

For Example take SUN sub

 

(1st KET sub End) = 00:46:40

(2nd KET sub Start) = 25:53:20

Diff. in Deg = 25:53:20 - 00:46:40 =25:06:40(=No Birth Zone)

Duration = 25:06:40 * 4 min = 01:40:27 Hrs(No Birth Zone time range)

 

//Possibility of Ascendant appearing in one sub earlier or one sub later than the position of Moon is 3/249 (three out of 249 subs) which is equal to 1.20% only. //

 

what you have taken is for 360 deg 249 subs.This is a simple math calculation. Here you have to take within one No Birth Zone. If you see the Duration/time wise can understand it well.

 

Take any birth happened in No Birth zone(that is ascendant Sub is not Moon Star).What you are going to do in RBT? Simply shift the ascendant to Birth Zone such that the time correction is very minimum/least.

 

Let us take the Maximum & minimum No birth zone of each Sub lord(Kindly note that the additional row in BLUE color text is the corrected value compated to the table given earlier-Regret inconvenience caused)

 

(Sub wise - part Table).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hr.No

 

Rasi

 

Sign

 

Star

 

Sub

 

Start

 

End

 

Diff. In Deg.

 

Duration (Hrs)

 

 

1

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

KET

 

00:00:00

 

00:46:40

 

25:06:40

 

01:40:27

 

 

68

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

KET

 

97:20:00

 

98:06:40

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

10

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

VEN

 

13:20:00

 

15:33:20

 

22:13:20

 

01:28:53

 

 

69

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

VEN

 

98:06:40

 

100:20:00

 

09:00:00

 

00:36:00

 

 

77

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

VEN

 

109:20:00

 

111:33:20

 

09:13:20

 

00:36:53

 

 

11

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

SUN

 

15:33:20

 

16:13:20

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

19

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

SUN

 

SUN

 

26:40:00

 

27:20:00

 

25:20:00

 

01:41:20

 

 

78

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

SUN

 

111:33:20

 

112:13:20

 

10:46:40

 

00:43:07

 

 

12

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

16:13:20

 

17:20:00

 

10:00:00

 

00:40:00

 

 

29

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

MOO

 

40:00:00

 

41:06:40

 

24:26:40

 

01:37:47

 

 

79

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

MOO

 

112:13:20

 

113:20:00

 

10:20:00

 

00:41:20

 

 

13

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

MAR

 

17:20:00

 

18:06:40

 

10:20:00

 

00:41:20

 

 

38

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MAR

 

MAR

 

53:20:00

 

54:06:40

 

25:06:40

 

01:40:27

 

 

80

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

MAR

 

113:20:00

 

114:06:40

 

10:40:00

 

00:42:40

 

 

14

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

RAH

 

18:06:40

 

20:06:40

 

09:06:40

 

00:36:27

 

 

47

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

RAH

 

66:40:00

 

68:40:00

 

22:40:00

 

01:30:40

 

 

81

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

RAH

 

114:06:40

 

116:06:40

 

09:26:40

 

00:37:47

 

 

15

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

JUP

 

20:06:40

 

21:53:20

 

09:20:00

 

00:37:20

 

 

56

 

RA3

 

MER

 

JUP

 

JUP

 

80:00:00

 

81:46:40

 

23:06:40

 

01:32:27

 

 

82

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

JUP

 

116:06:40

 

117:53:20

 

09:40:00

 

00:38:40

 

 

16

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

SAT

 

21:53:20

 

24:00:00

 

09:00:00

 

00:36:00

 

 

66

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

SAT

 

93:20:00

 

95:26:40

 

22:26:40

 

01:29:47

 

 

83

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

SAT

 

117:53:20

 

120:00:00

 

09:20:00

 

00:37:20

 

 

17

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

MER

 

24:00:00

 

25:53:20

 

09:13:20

 

00:36:53

 

 

75

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

MER

 

106:40:00

 

108:33:20

 

22:53:20

 

01:31:33

 

The least No birth Zone is 09:00:00 Deg (00:36:00 hrs) in VEN. The highest No birth Zone is 25:20:00 Deg (01:41:20 hrs) in SUN.

 

Case:1(Minimum -Worst Case)

============ ========= =

Assume a birth happened when the MOON is in VEN star and ascendant is at the mid of No birth Zone ( that is 04:30:00 Deg) simply you have to shift ascendant to Birth Zone with 00:18:00 hrs (+ or - 18 minute) correction which is the least possibility.

 

For VEN, the error possibility is equal to 50% (18/36) the correction required is (+/- 18min)

 

 

Case:2(Maximum -Worst Case)

============ ========= ==

Assume a birth happened when the MOON is in SUN star and ascendant is at the mid of No birth Zone ( that is 12:40:00 Deg) simply you have to shift ascendant to Birth Zone with 00:50:40 hrs (+ or - 51 minute) correction which is the least possibility.

 

 

For SUN, the error possibility is equal to 50% (51/101) the correction required is (+/- 51min)

 

 

All Cases

=======

 

When the MOON is in particular star,Consider only the births which are happened in No birth Zone and ascendants of those births are in a range(that is at the start of No Birth Zone to mid of No birth Zone).Simple you have to shift ascendant to Birth Zone with 0 Min to half of the No birth Zone duration.

 

 

 

The error possibility is equal to 0% to 50%( that is 00:00:00 Deg to 12:40:00 Deg ). For which the correction required is (+/- 0 to 51min)

 

************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* *****

So now you can select the charts as per your wish and present it. This is what you have done in the attached file. You have selected 50 charts and Justfying 86% for +/-30 minute correction. See the part table what you have given.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Time when Asc sub=Moon Str and Asc sub-sub=Moon sub

Within 5 Min +/-

Within 10 Min +/-

Within 15 Min +/-

Within 20 Min +/-

 

Within 25 Min +/-

 

Within 30 Min +/-

 

Beyond 30 Min +/-

 

 

Total Cases

 

15

 

8

 

7

 

7

 

4

 

2

 

7

 

 

Within +/-30min

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

43 (86%)

 

 

 

 

within +/-25min

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

41 (82%)

 

 

 

 

 

 

within+/- 20min

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

37 (74%)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

within +/-15min

 

 

 

 

 

30 (60%)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

within +/- 10min

 

 

 

23 (46%)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Within +/- 5min

 

15 (30%)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kindly note that in the above table "Beyond 30 min" column will never exceed 51min (Maximum case) so we can call it "Beyond 30 min upto 51min"

 

 

You have selected 50 charts and showing actually 30% to 86% is ERRORS ONLY(by using the RBT rule). Today I really learned from you, how to FOOL the innocents (even clever) by showing one mathematical comparison table.

I don’t have any personal feelings with any of our forum members including Shri Lajmi. I am opposing the RULE only. Just because of this one RULE we can’t underestimate anybody. Shri Lajmi is one of the JAMBAVAN (Senior most member age/experience wise) of this forum who has got vast knowledge in astrology and contributes lot to this forum members and I really appreciate it. His cooperation for VGR’s RBT exercise is highly respected.

I don’t have much energy to talk on this subject anymore and let us work together with VGR for the RBT exercise to find the way forward.

Note to VGR ========= Dear VGR can you please post the Quiz details for the members to participate. GOOD LUCK!! D.Senthil

 

--- On Sat, 12/26/09, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ > wrote:

Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.comCc: "Senthil" <athi_ram >, punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com, "Mr. Yogesh Rao Lajmi" <lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) co.in>Saturday, December 26, 2009, 4:10 AM

 

 

 

Dear Senthil ji,

 

I agree with you that according to BTR Rule under consideration (Mr. Shanmugam's rule and subsequently modified by Lajmi ji)), for all births on a particular Moon star day......... .Asc sub lord should be only one i.e. Sun, Moon etc depending on star lord of the Moon. This is not true in all cases, is a fact........ but possibility cannot be denied logically. May be a good subject for research.

 

Mr. Lajmi ji uses this BTR method within +/- 30 min from the recorded time. According to me about 86% cases can be rectified within this range complying this rule. Please see attached file. However the birth time so arrived cannot be certified as correct/accurate unless VERIFIED. For this, the verification project being done by Mr. VGR Pavan is the only way to find most acceptable method(s).

 

In the table of sub, I could not understand the calculations for Diff. in Deg and Duration columns. So cannot comment.

 

Regarding point raised in URL http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959 ..........

Possibility of Ascendant appearing in one sub earlier or one sub later than the position of Moon is 3/249 (three out of 249 subs) which is equal to 1.20% only. This can be treated as exception to the rule or in failure percentage of the rule. In my opinion this cannot form the basis for the rejection of the rule.

 

Please note that I am not canvassing this BTR method but opposing the basis for its rejection. As Mr. Punit Pandey has mentioned verification being done by Mr. VGR Pavan is only correct way to select most acceptable method(s) in my humble opinion. Please note that Mr. Lajmi ji is also co-operating and taking part in the process.

 

Regards

Subhash Ektare

 

 

 

 

Senthil <athi_ram >@gro ups.comCc: subhash_ektare@ ; punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) comThu, December 24, 2009 11:07:25 PMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

Dear Subhash Ektare, You have put Very Good logical questions and I appreciate your findings. However let me rephrase my statements/question s as given below. If we consider all the places within the band that is from 180W to 180E longitude & 65N to 65S latitude (ignoring the places where the people are not living most likely, example places which are coming on the Ocean/sea etc, - leave the few people who live in the boat/ship or sail etc) at any particular instant/time the entire 360 Degree Zodiac will be always occupied by the ascendants of the various places around the world. As mentioned earlier (Message ID# 29225) consider that the MOON is occupied in the SUN star and the time taken by the moon to transit the whole SUN star is approximately 29 Hours. If we assume that the MOON enters in the SUN star in a sign (where SUN star is present) on date DD-MM-YYYY HH:MM:SS Hrs GMT (DD-Day, MM-Month, YYYY-Year, HH-Hours, MM-minute, SS-Second) for discussion purpose let us assume the date 25-12-2009 00:00:00

GMT (don't see Ephemeris & ask next question there is no SUN star in this day) and if we take each and every people living places on the earth they will have transit of ascendant starting from Local mean time (LMT) corresponding to 00:00:00 hrs GMT to next day Local mean time (LMT) corresponding to 05:00:00 hrs GMT. For example, Places in INDIA which falls in 82.5Deg longitude irrespective of latitude consider the transit of ascendant from 25-12-2009 05:30:00 Hrs LMT to next day 26-12-2009 10:30:00 Hrs LMT Local mean time (LMT) Similarly we can consider for all other places also. Now out of this 29 Hrs duration, the childbirth can happen ONLY when the ascendant is transiting in CHILDBIRTH ZONE (that is the ascendant position corresponding to sub lord is SUN) and there will not be any childbirth for the balance NO BIRTH TIME ZONE (that is the ascendant position corresponding to any other sub lord except SUN). Similarly we can consider for all other places also. Based on this if we workout the told childbirth for the 29 Hours duration approximately we will get 426560 births (at the rate of 353,015 births per day as per 2009 record given in Message ID#29164). The entire 426560 birth charts will have only SUN sub as ascendant and not even Single Chart/birth will have other than SUN sub (that is, KET, VEN, MOO, MAR, RAH, JUP, SAT & MER). Similarly for next block of succeeding 29(say) hours the entire 426560 birth charts will

have only MOO sub as ascendant and not even Single Chart/birth will have other than MOO sub (that is KET, VEN, SUN, MAR, RAH, JUP, SAT & MER) because the MOO must have moved to the next star that it’s own star (MOON star).

This shows that there is a sequence of Birth should happen around the world as well as there should not be any other planets happened to be the ascendant Sub lord except the one (Moon Star lord) within the block of time (29 Hours). IS THIS POSSIBLE???? Secondly, let us look at the Table given below (Sorted in Ascending Order Sub wise for the first 120 Deg of the Zodiac)

 

 

 

Hr.No

 

Rasi

 

Sign

 

Star

 

Sub

 

Start

 

End

 

Diff. In Deg.

 

Duration (Hrs)

 

 

1

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

KET

 

00:00:00

 

00:46:40

 

25:06:40

 

01:40:27

 

 

18

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

KET

 

25:53:20

 

26:40:00

 

10:20:00

 

00:41:20

 

 

27

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

SUN

 

KET

 

37:00:00

 

37:46:40

 

11:53:20

 

00:47:33

 

 

35

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

KET

 

49:40:00

 

50:26:40

 

11:26:40

 

00:45:47

 

 

43

 

RA3

 

MER

 

MAR

 

KET

 

61:53:20

 

62:40:00

 

11:46:40

 

00:47:07

 

 

51

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

KET

 

74:26:40

 

75:13:20

 

10:33:20

 

00:42:13

 

 

59

 

RA3

 

MER

 

JUP

 

KET

 

85:46:40

 

86:33:20

 

10:46:40

 

00:43:07

 

 

68

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

KET

 

97:20:00

 

98:06:40

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

76

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

KET

 

108:33:20

 

109:20:00

 

10:40:00

 

00:42:40

 

 

2

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

VEN

 

00:46:40

 

03:00:00

 

10:20:00

 

00:41:20

 

 

10

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

VEN

 

13:20:00

 

15:33:20

 

22:13:20

 

01:28:53

 

 

28

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

SUN

 

VEN

 

37:46:40

 

40:00:00

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

36

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

VEN

 

50:26:40

 

52:40:00

 

10:00:00

 

00:40:00

 

 

44

 

RA3

 

MER

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

62:40:00

 

64:53:20

 

10:20:00

 

00:41:20

 

 

52

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

VEN

 

75:13:20

 

77:26:40

 

09:06:40

 

00:36:27

 

 

60

 

RA3

 

MER

 

JUP

 

VEN

 

86:33:20

 

88:46:40

 

09:20:00

 

00:37:20

 

 

69

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

VEN

 

98:06:40

 

100:20:00

 

09:00:00

 

00:36:00

 

 

77

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

VEN

 

109:20:00

 

111:33:20

 

08:26:40

 

00:33:47

 

 

3

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

SUN

 

03:00:00

 

03:40:00

 

11:53:20

 

00:47:33

 

 

11

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

SUN

 

15:33:20

 

16:13:20

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

19

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

SUN

 

SUN

 

26:40:00

 

27:20:00

 

25:20:00

 

01:41:20

 

 

37

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

SUN

 

52:40:00

 

53:20:00

 

11:33:20

 

00:46:13

 

 

45

 

RA3

 

MER

 

MAR

 

SUN

 

64:53:20

 

65:33:20

 

11:53:20

 

00:47:33

 

 

53

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

SUN

 

77:26:40

 

78:06:40

 

10:40:00

 

00:42:40

 

 

61

 

RA3

 

MER

 

JUP

 

SUN

 

88:46:40

 

89:26:40

 

10:53:20

 

00:43:33

 

 

70

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

SUN

 

100:20:00

 

101:00:00

 

10:33:20

 

00:42:13

 

 

78

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

SUN

 

111:33:20

 

112:13:20

 

07:46:40

 

00:31:07

 

 

4

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

MOO

 

03:40:00

 

04:46:40

 

11:26:40

 

00:45:47

 

 

12

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

16:13:20

 

17:20:00

 

10:00:00

 

00:40:00

 

 

20

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

SUN

 

MOO

 

27:20:00

 

28:26:40

 

11:33:20

 

00:46:13

 

 

29

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

MOO

 

40:00:00

 

41:06:40

 

24:26:40

 

01:37:47

 

 

46

 

RA3

 

MER

 

MAR

 

MOO

 

65:33:20

 

66:40:00

 

11:26:40

 

00:45:47

 

 

54

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

MOO

 

78:06:40

 

79:13:20

 

10:13:20

 

00:40:53

 

 

62

 

RA3

 

MER

 

JUP

 

MOO

 

89:26:40

 

90:00:00

 

00:00:00

 

00:00:00

 

 

63

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

JUP

 

MOO

 

90:00:00

 

90:33:20

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

71

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

MOO

 

101:00:00

 

102:06:40

 

10:06:40

 

00:40:27

 

 

79

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

MOO

 

112:13:20

 

113:20:00

 

06:40:00

 

00:26:40

 

 

5

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

MAR

 

04:46:40

 

05:33:20

 

11:46:40

 

00:47:07

 

 

13

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

MAR

 

17:20:00

 

18:06:40

 

10:20:00

 

00:41:20

 

 

21

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

SUN

 

MAR

 

28:26:40

 

29:13:20

 

11:53:20

 

00:47:33

 

 

30

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

MAR

 

41:06:40

 

41:53:20

 

11:26:40

 

00:45:47

 

 

38

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MAR

 

MAR

 

53:20:00

 

54:06:40

 

25:06:40

 

01:40:27

 

 

55

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

MAR

 

79:13:20

 

80:00:00

 

10:33:20

 

00:42:13

 

 

64

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

JUP

 

MAR

 

90:33:20

 

91:20:00

 

10:46:40

 

00:43:07

 

 

72

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

MAR

 

102:06:40

 

102:53:20

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

80

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

MAR

 

113:20:00

 

114:06:40

 

05:53:20

 

00:23:33

 

 

6

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

RAH

 

05:33:20

 

07:33:20

 

10:33:20

 

00:42:13

 

 

14

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

RAH

 

18:06:40

 

20:06:40

 

09:06:40

 

00:36:27

 

 

22

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

SUN

 

RAH

 

29:13:20

 

30:00:00

 

00:00:00

 

00:00:00

 

 

23

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

SUN

 

RAH

 

30:00:00

 

31:13:20

 

10:40:00

 

00:42:40

 

 

31

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

RAH

 

41:53:20

 

43:53:20

 

10:13:20

 

00:40:53

 

 

39

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MAR

 

RAH

 

54:06:40

 

56:06:40

 

10:33:20

 

00:42:13

 

 

47

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

RAH

 

66:40:00

 

68:40:00

 

22:40:00

 

01:30:40

 

 

65

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

JUP

 

RAH

 

91:20:00

 

93:20:00

 

09:33:20

 

00:38:13

 

 

73

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

RAH

 

102:53:20

 

104:53:20

 

09:13:20

 

00:36:53

 

 

81

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

RAH

 

114:06:40

 

116:06:40

 

03:53:20

 

00:15:33

 

 

7

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

JUP

 

07:33:20

 

09:20:00

 

10:46:40

 

00:43:07

 

 

15

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

JUP

 

20:06:40

 

21:53:20

 

09:20:00

 

00:37:20

 

 

24

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

SUN

 

JUP

 

31:13:20

 

33:00:00

 

10:53:20

 

00:43:33

 

 

32

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

JUP

 

43:53:20

 

45:40:00

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

40

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MAR

 

JUP

 

56:06:40

 

57:53:20

 

10:46:40

 

00:43:07

 

 

48

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

JUP

 

68:40:00

 

70:26:40

 

09:33:20

 

00:38:13

 

 

56

 

RA3

 

MER

 

JUP

 

JUP

 

80:00:00

 

81:46:40

 

23:06:40

 

01:32:27

 

 

74

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

JUP

 

104:53:20

 

106:40:00

 

09:26:40

 

00:37:47

 

 

82

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

JUP

 

116:06:40

 

117:53:20

 

02:06:40

 

00:08:27

 

 

8

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

SAT

 

09:20:00

 

11:26:40

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

16

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

SAT

 

21:53:20

 

24:00:00

 

09:00:00

 

00:36:00

 

 

25

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

SUN

 

SAT

 

33:00:00

 

35:06:40

 

10:33:20

 

00:42:13

 

 

33

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

45:40:00

 

47:46:40

 

10:06:40

 

00:40:27

 

 

41

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MAR

 

SAT

 

57:53:20

 

60:00:00

 

10:26:40

 

00:41:47

 

 

49

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

SAT

 

70:26:40

 

72:33:20

 

09:13:20

 

00:36:53

 

 

57

 

RA3

 

MER

 

JUP

 

SAT

 

81:46:40

 

83:53:20

 

09:26:40

 

00:37:47

 

 

66

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

SAT

 

93:20:00

 

95:26:40

 

22:26:40

 

01:29:47

 

 

83

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

SAT

 

117:53:20

 

120:00:00

 

00:00:00

 

00:00:00

 

 

9

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

KET

 

MER

 

11:26:40

 

13:20:00

 

10:40:00

 

00:42:40

 

 

17

 

RA1

 

MAR

 

VEN

 

MER

 

24:00:00

 

25:53:20

 

09:13:20

 

00:36:53

 

 

26

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

SUN

 

MER

 

35:06:40

 

37:00:00

 

10:46:40

 

00:43:07

 

 

34

 

RA2

 

VEN

 

MOO

 

MER

 

47:46:40

 

49:40:00

 

10:20:00

 

00:41:20

 

 

42

 

RA3

 

MER

 

MAR

 

MER

 

60:00:00

 

61:53:20

 

10:40:00

 

00:42:40

 

 

50

 

RA3

 

MER

 

RAH

 

MER

 

72:33:20

 

74:26:40

 

09:26:40

 

00:37:47

 

 

58

 

RA3

 

MER

 

JUP

 

MER

 

83:53:20

 

85:46:40

 

09:40:00

 

00:38:40

 

 

67

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

SAT

 

MER

 

95:26:40

 

97:20:00

 

09:20:00

 

00:37:20

 

 

75

 

RA4

 

MOO

 

MER

 

MER

 

106:40:00

 

108:33:20

 

11:26:40

 

00:45:47

Let us consider that the MOON is occupied in the SUN star as mentioned above with the position (say 27:20:00 SUN Star MOO-Sub). The Balance degree in the star works out to 12:40:00. So the ascendant for all the places around the world will complete one full circle that is 360 Degree at the same time the MOON might have completed 11 Degree only with balance of 1:40:00 in the same star. Whenever the ascendant of any place around the world comes closer to the MOON position within the proximity range for about 25:20:00 Degrees corresponding to 01:41:20 hrs (refer above table Hr.No 19 - maximum case) and 07:46:40 Degrees corresponding to 00:31:07 hrs (refer above table Hr.No 78 - minimum case) there should not be any birth to happen in those places except other locations where the ascendant is not closer to the MOON position within the proximity range. This

means that for any birth chart the ascendant and MOON position will never be conjoined within this 25:20:00 Degrees (Max. Case) to 07:46:40 Degrees (Min case) orb except the special case Rapt Conjunction (0 to 00:40:00 Deg) when the MOON is in the same star & Sub (say SUN Star SUN Sub). This indicates that there is always an offset in the birth time for about 00:31:07 hrs to 01:41:20 hrs except for the Special case.

This shows that there is a sequence of Birth should happen around the world whenever the ascendant of any place around the world comes closer to the MOON position within the proximity range except other places. IS THIS POSSIBLE????

For Example:

How will you fix BTR for the person born with CANCER, SCRPIO, PIECES Moon sign with JUP as STAR lord & RAH as sub whose ascendant also in the same Sign-star-sub or just one sub offset (plus+ or minus-) position? (This point was already raised in the below mentioned URL)

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959

 

 

 

Hr.No.

 

Sgn:Str:Sub

 

Degree

 

 

56

 

MER:JUP:JUP

 

080:00:00

 

 

57

 

MER:JUP:SAT

 

081:46:40

 

 

58

 

MER:JUP:MER

 

083:53:20

 

 

59

 

MER:JUP:KET

 

085:46:40

 

 

60

 

MER:JUP:VEN

 

086:33:20

 

 

61

 

MER:JUP:SUN

 

088:46:40

 

 

62

 

MER:JUP:MOO

 

089:26:40

 

 

63

 

MOO:JUP:MOO

 

090:00:00

 

 

64

 

MOO:JUP:MAR

 

090:33:20

 

 

65

 

MOO:JUP:RAH

 

091:20:00

 

 

66

 

MOO:SAT:SAT

 

093:20:00

 

 

67

 

MOO:SAT:MER

 

095:26:40

 

 

68

 

MOO:SAT:KET

 

097:20:00

 

 

69

 

MOO:SAT:VEN

 

098:06:40

 

 

70

 

MOO:SAT:SUN

 

100:20:00

 

 

71

 

MOO:SAT:MOO

 

101:00:00

 

 

72

 

MOO:SAT:MAR

 

102:06:40

 

 

73

 

MOO:SAT:RAH

 

102:53:20

 

 

74

 

MOO:SAT:JUP

 

104:53:20

If we look at the sub table (given above), Suppose the birth (Natal) chart moon position is in MOO-JUP-RAH (the degree is 91:20:00) then as per the rule one can fix the ascendant either in MER-JUP-JUP( the degree is 80:00:00) or in MOO-SAT-JUP( the degree is 104:53:20). The highest difference is 13.5 deg (say), which will give roughly 54min time offset. As per this no birth should happen in this time zone in those places.

How this is correct? Request PUNIT/members to come to the conclusion whether to REJECT this Rule (which I have REJRCTED already) or Keep this Rule for further study (Personally I don’t find any scope/logic in this RULE to retain or to continue). If we don’t REJECT/ ELIMINATE this Rule now, then till the end of our last breath including our followers/beginners will be discussing about ‘N’ numbers of RBT rules and only more confusion can arise and solution may not be reached. We have to eliminate one by one and keep few/minimum RBT rules that may work well. For this our VGR has started some exercise request members to participate to find the way forward. I salute Mr.Subhash Ektare for raising very good logical question who made me to think further deep in the subject matter and to present this in appropriate manner. While doing this study have found some interesting things which I don’t want to rise now to avoid diverting the present topic before closing it. Note to Punit:

======== This message may get truncated after some time due to 64KB size limit. Please advise how to retain the message contents.(may be uploaded in Studies folder any other way?) My personal opinion is that each topic must be closed with some extend to move on the next topic but for this member’s support/contributio n is essential otherwise the purpose of discussion will be lost or held at midway. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil--- On Wed, 12/23/09, Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ > wrote:

Subhash Ektare <subhash_ektare@ >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.comWednesday, December 23, 2009, 7:17 AM

 

 

 

 

Dear Senthil ji/Misra ji and Members,

 

Please excuse me for the interference. I missed these messages because I was travelling during that time and so could not comment. First, let it be clear that I am not a propagator of the Theory "Asc sub=Moon Star etc" nor I want to comment on it. Secondly I have no personal grudge against any member.

 

Mr. Senthil ji has given very nice, mathematically perfect presentation! ! Hats off to him. However I cannot to conclusion drawn, for following reasons. (Please refer message # 29225)

 

1. It is assumed that Sun Sub (which is lasting for 1h:25m:20 s) is acting simultaneously in whole world. And for remaining 27h:34m:40s there is no Sun sub acting anywhere in the world. This is possible only when exact same degree of Ascendant rises all over the world at a given time which is impossible.

 

2. Total No Birth Time Zone ( 22h;48m in the case of Sun sub) calculated will be applicable for the place where Ascendant movement for the period of about 29 hours is surveyed. In fact during this so called Total No Birth Time Zone.......at many other places in the world Sun sub for the Ascendant will be acting at some time or the other.

 

Request senior members to correct me if I am wrong.

Actually what Mr. VGR Pavan is doing is correct way of verifying which BTR method is consistent enough to be accepted. I appeal all members to participate and make it a success.

Regards

Subhash Ektare

 

 

 

Senthil <athi_ram >@gro ups.comTue, December 22, 2009 4:26:35 PMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Misra,

 

Please go through the link given below then you can understand yourself.

 

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 29217

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 29225

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 9596

GOOD LUCK!

 

D.Senthil--- On Tue, 12/22/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.com> wrote:

Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.com>Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.comTuesday, December 22, 2009, 6:44 AM

 

 

 

D.Senthil Ji, // Asc Sub= Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub= Moon Su //Please you may kindly be pleased to make it clear as to why the above rule does apply in most of the cases and it fails in few cases only.

With thanks & regards,

Dhirendra Nath Misra

 

 

 

 

 

Senthil <athi_ram >@gro ups.comTue, December 22, 2009 6:09:07 AMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Lajmi,

 

I will not accept the RULE of Asc Sub = Moon STAR & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub even it is recommended by Prof. KSK.

 

I will say it is a MEANING LESS, NO LOGIC & WASTE RULE ONLY. I have DISPROVED it and many members in the year 2005-2006 have also DISPROVED.

 

Kindly note that i don't have any personal feelings on anyone including you except the RULE (Asc Sub= Moob Star & Asc Sub-Sub= Moon Sub).

 

GOOD LUCK!

 

D.Senthil

--- On Mon, 12/21/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote:

Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.comCc: "tw853" <tw853 >Monday, December 21, 2009, 6:42 AM

 

 

Dear TW,

Your letter is discussing totally irrelevant data,what the Baptism record says, is based on the information supplied by the parents,and not GOD ALMIGHTY... or Sunnat got to do with the astrologically correct Time of Birth,the reliability of both is doubtful...

In the Punjab and in Pakistan the Birth day used to be recorded as the day on which mundan is performed,anywhere between the real age is 1 to 3 or even 4 years... !

We are discussing K.P., not religious customs...which are what they are known to be...!

And for your information, our Guruji has recommended the method I have suggested,

and has been found to be very accurate by most K.P. followers,except Punit,you and your supporters in this column...

After my letter to Punit,based on this,he is going to check and verify whether this method is successful or not and he will be using the Birth Charts of persons and friends he know details about by using the K.P. Rectification method...

Let us await his observations. ..

Till then let us discuss the new topic I have begun and suggested we take up...

"How to assess the the quantum of the benefits,a 'benefic' planet will bestow upon the native of a chart under scrutiny..."

Surely this discussion will be very beneficial to all practitioners of K.P.,to give a more accurate assessment of the quantum of benefits...etc.

With best wishes,

Yogesh Lajmi

GOOD LUCK !

 

 

 

 

TW <tw853 >@gro ups.comMon, 21 December, 2009 4:21:17 AM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Dear Friends,1."AA --- Accurate data as recorded by the family or state. This includes BC (birth certificate) , and BR (birth record), that which is not an official document but a quote of the birth record from the Registrar or Bureau of Records, the baptismal certificate, family Bible, or baby book. These data reflect the best available accuracy." 2. As the astrological research computer program is not yet available, we apply a SIMPLE METHOD in our research study by checking chart by chart, as done by our Gurus and Church of Light (Astrology, 30 Years Research), whether each of the following definitions is met (tallied) or not, without any assumption or anything else.Moon Star = ASC Sub Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 16092?threaded= 1 & l=1

Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule.doc (File section)Explanation of the Test Results3. In Astrological Statistical Research, there are the simple method and the proper statistical analysis, as mention in the point 1 and 2 of:A Study of 100 Prisoner Charts.doc (File section)Thanks and regards,TW@gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Suprakash ji,> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and> better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you> want to do it?> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please> suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of> connection, we

can

again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your> suggestions incorporated.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <> suprakash.ghosh@ ...> wrote:> > >> >> > Dear Punit ji> >> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the> > basic conditions assumed during the test.> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the> > genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts been> > analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is> > that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between> > moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt> > conjunction. Was all the

charts analysed in this way?> >> > If not, then the test has no relevance.> >> > Regards> >> > Suprakash> >> >> >> > -> > ** Punit Pandey <punitp> > *To:* @gro ups.com> > *Sent:* Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> > *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >> > Dear Suresh ji,> >> > Please see your post (> > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047). I quote -> >> > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by

Lajmiji is practicable as> > well as logical."> > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the> > wheel."> > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited> > and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research> > on the subject is surprising."> >> > *Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and the study> > found that the method doesn't work.* Please see the file section and you> > can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study> > found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. *That is the reason I say> > that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.* Your opinion (point> > no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following them "blindly"> > which also means following incorrect

methods.> >> > *What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of> > available methods.* People who are marketing their methods for a long> > time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may> > not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of> > KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating> > in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum> > loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must> > participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we> > will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win.> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh

<hattangadi_ suresh@.. .>wrote:> >> >>> >>> >> Dear Punitji,> >> I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not> >> read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But> >> again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years> >> experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his> >> experience.. My only point is research done in so many directions may not be> >> conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently> >> by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post.> >> Suresh Hattangadi> >>> >>> > > >>

 

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Dear members,

 

In my understanding, the rule is RP moon star = Natal Asc Sub and RP Moon sub= Natal asc sub sub.

 

I may be wrong.

Lajmiji please confirm.

 

Regards

 

Suprakash

 

 

 

 

-

Senthil

Tuesday, December 29, 2009 6:17 AM

Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Memebrs,

 

//After all , the rule stated by Lajmiji is based on RP ..............//

 

To be very clear, It is based on Birth Chart RP only. The RULE is giving very simple relation between the NATAL chart data only. That is

 

"Natal Asc Sub = Natal Moon Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal Moon Sub"

 

Please refer files section Word file,

 

Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule.docx

 

& the URL given below. /message/16098?threaded=1 /message/17262?threaded=1 /message/20847?threaded=1 & l=1 /message/22223?threaded=1 & l=1 /message/28249?threaded=1 & l=1 GOOD LUCK!!

 

D.Senthil--- On Mon, 12/28/09, Subha <suprakash.ghosh (AT) cesc (DOT) co.in> wrote:

Subha <suprakash.ghosh (AT) cesc (DOT) co.in> Re: What is the correct birth time? Date: Monday, December 28, 2009, 8:34 AM

Punit jiNo , it does not mean that.The relations are just to locate the most representative planet for star/sub lord of moon.After all , the rule stated by Lajmiji is based on RP and RP doesn't always indicate in a streight way. Even Rahu / Ketu may represent Moon star or sublord .Take my conditions as:A = RP moon StarlordB= Expected sub lord in Natal ChartIf A and B have relations as per the rules mentioned by me (please note and stress the 'AND' conditions), we should not blindly put A in place of asc sub lord. Instead, B, a planet not appeared as moon star lord may become strong contender for sub position as well.The same logic is for finding SS lord also.Hope I can clear your doubt.RegardsSuprakash@gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Suprakash ji,> > I do not understand how you will use point 'a' to 'h' in case of> ascendnat-moon connection rule?> > Does it mean that -> > Ascedant sub lord can be> 0) moon's star> a) in the star of Moon's star> b) in sub of Moon's star> c) in sign Moon's star> c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa [this is not KP, so> ignoring this]> d) Ascendant sub conjoins Moon's star> e) A third planet is in orb of ascedant sub and moon's star> f) ascendant sub aspects moon's star (vedic)> g) moon's star aspects ascedant sub (vedic)> f) ascendant sub aspects moon's star (vedic)> g) moon's star aspects ascedant sub (vedic)> > If my understanding is correct, at least in the case of ascendant-moon rule> it doesn't make sense because one of the above condition will be always> going to be satisfied. So many rule, makes almost any time correct. You have> mentioned so many conditions.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Suprakash Ghosh <> suprakash.ghosh@ ...> wrote:> > >> >> > Dear Punitji> >> > *Collection of reliable birth data* : we need to have connection with> > nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual time of> > first cry.> >> > *As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :*> >> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A> > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planet C is> > inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orb with C> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with specified> > orb)> >> >> >> > Regards> >> > Suprakash> >> >> >> > -> > ** Punit Pandey <punitp> > *To:* @gro ups.com> > *Sent:* Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> > *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >> > Dear Suprakash ji,> >> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and> > better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you> > want to do it?> >> >> >> >> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please> > suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of> > connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your> > suggestions incorporated.> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <> > suprakash.ghosh@ ...> wrote:> >> >>> >>> >> Dear Punit ji> >>> >> Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the> >> basic conditions assumed during the test.> >> Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the> >> genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts been> >> analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is> >> that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between> >> moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt> >> conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way?> >>> >> If not, then the test has no relevance.> >>> >> Regards> >>> >> Suprakash> >>> >>> >>> >> -> >> ** Punit Pandey <punitp> >> *To:* @gro ups.com> >> *Sent:* Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> >> *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?> >>> >>> >>> >> Dear Suresh ji,> >>> >> Please see your post (> >> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047). I quote -> >>> >> 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as> >> well as logical."> >> 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the> >> wheel."> >> 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited> >> and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research> >> on the subject is surprising."> >>> >> *Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and the> >> study found that the method doesn't work.* Please see the file section> >> and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but> >> what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. *That is the> >> reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.* Your> >> opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following> >> them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods.> >>> >> *What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of> >> available methods.* People who are marketing their methods for a long> >> time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may> >> not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of> >> KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating> >> in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum> >> loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must> >> participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we> >> will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win.> >>> >> Thanks & Regards,> >>> >> Punit Pandey> >>> >>> >> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@.. .>wrote:> >>> >>>> >>>> >>> Dear Punitji,> >>> I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not> >>> read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But> >>> again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years> >>> experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his> >>> experience.My only point is research done in so many directions may not be> >>> conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently> >>> by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post.> >>> Suresh Hattangadi> >>>> >>>> >>> > > >>

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Dear Mishra ji,

 

Now we are reckoning two issues, which both do not require any time to

be spent upon as an astrologer in my opinion.

 

1) You say that You can provide particulars of many births where first

cry has been recorded. So now I ask your goodself, whether have you

tried to check the Rule as being discussed presently, whether does it

work or applicable to these cases? If You have applied and it does not

work, then what is your conclusions (a) whether the Rule is wrong ? OR

(b) whether the first cry is not necessarily the actual birth time ? ©

how much time difference does it constitute to bring the recorded time

of first cry to the time - when this Rule applies.

 

2) As an astrologer why do we need to go into extensive research of

whether first Cry is Birth time or time of umblical chord, or head

coming out time, or first breath.... What are the Birth rectification

methods for ?

 

In any case if your respected Bhabhiji is a Doctor, then you may please

confirm how much time difference is there between (a) the first cry and

the breath OR (b)the first cry and time of cutting of umblical chord OR

© Coming out of head and cutting of umblical chord OR (d) any other

combinations.

 

If its maximum 5 minutes, then why cannot we rectify the Time, instead

of breaking our heads on first Cry as Time of Birth, or cutting of

umblical chord as time of Birth, or whatever.

 

If it is more than 5 minutes difference in above, then what exactly do

you propose being an astrologer, as well as being connected to a Doctor

who has/can provided/can provide Birth details with first cry timings.

 

regards,

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

 

, Dhirendra Nath Misra

<dhirendranathmisra wrote:

>

> Dear Lazmi Ji,D.Senthil Ji,Punit Ji,Bhaskar Ji,Kalyan Ji,Tw JiÂ

,Dr.Rath Ji & other senior members,

>

> I am fowarding birth particulars of my son recorded by my Bhabhi

(Dr.Jay Sri) Ji who is a medical doctor and runs her own maternity

center in Haldwani,District-Nainital at Mukhani.She records time of

first cry of child as correct birth time.Thousands of birth time of

first cry of babies may be collected from there.I may provide her cell

No. if required to collect birth data of first cry.Â

> Birth particular of my own son is as under:

> [1] Male baby (Suyash)

> DOB-06th April,1998

> TOB-Recorded Time-Â 10:12AM[Recorded time of first cry]

> POB-Haldwani,District-Nainital

> Latitude-29N13

> Longitude-79E31

> K.P Ayanamsa adopted

> Asc-Sub lord= Moon sub lord=Venus

> Asc sub sub lord =Moon star lord=Mercury

>

> Other Birth Particulars,

>

> [2]Daughter was born in hospital- Time of first cry was recorded

> DOB-24th June,1995

> TOB-10:56PM

> POB-Basti,U.P

> Latitude-26N48

> Longitude 82E44

> Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Sun

> Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub = Saturn

> K.P Ayanamsa adopted

> Â

> [3]My own

> DOB-20th April,1959

> TOB-08:15AM(Recorded Time) as noted in Janm Patri,Rectified by me as

08:15:56 AM for K.P Ayanamsa only.I think at that time watch was either

slow by 56 seconds or watch had not hand showing time up to second.

> POB-Basti,U.P,India.

> Latitude-26N48

> Longitude-82E44

> K.P Ayanamsa adopted

> Asc sub lord=Moon star lord = Venus

> Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord =Saturn

>

> [4]Female,National Institute of Health,Washington D.C

> DOB-20.09.1977

> POB-Mumbai

> TOB-08:30:50AM

> Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Ketu

> Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub =Venus

> K.P Ayanamsa adopted

> Â

> [5] K.S.Krishnamurty Ji

> DOB-01-11-1908

> TOB-12:07:30PM

> POB-Thiruvayuru

> Asc sub lord =Moon star lord=Moon

> Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord = Mars

> K.P Ayanamsa adopted

> Â

> Â Does there any rule apply? Does recorded birth time of first cry

reveal any rule or on what basis you can deny this time.More recorded

time of first cry may be collected,if required for study.

>

> With thanks & regards.

> Dhirendra Nath Misra

> Â

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish

>

> Mon, December 28, 2009 11:57:34 PM

> Re: What is the correct birth time?

>

> Â

>

> Dear Mishra ji,

>

> //The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting recorded birth

> time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3 minutes)Â

onlyÂ

> we can apply the above rule.//

>

> Please demonstrate the above statement by illustrating the above with

> two example horoscopes. I am unable to understand what great astrology

> are we into that by shifting recorded birth time with few seconds we

can

> make any difference (Except for those cases where Cuspal sublord

> changes) in the predictions. And in exceptional cases upto 3 minutes?

> Most of the cases will have time difference of recorded birth time and

> actual birth time within 2-5 minutes and not few seconds Sir.

>

> // Besides this the different astrologers will have to change the

> recorded/rectified birth time further for different ayanamsas.//

>

> Please xplain this. When we are talking in this Group, it is

understood

> that apart from KP, we do not talk about others. But yet, I request

you

> to please explain your above statement with display of various

> ayanamshas, what is the intent of the above content ?

>

> regards,

>

> Bhaskar.

>

> @gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra

> <dhirendranathmisra wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting

> recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3

> minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the

> different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth

> time further for different ayanamsas.

> > With thanks & regards,Â

> > Dhirendra Nath Misra

> > Â

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ ...

> > @gro ups.com

> > Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM

> > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> >

> > Â

> > Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But

> trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half

an

> hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist

who

> has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will

look

> at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not

ready

> to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark.

> Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the

> natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording

> of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before

I

> pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet

otherwise

> I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon

> is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift

the

> time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect.

> >

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> > @gro ups.com, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>

> wrote:

> > >

> > > Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and

you

> will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?

> > >

> > > Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note

> the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the

delivery

> room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being

suggested

> ? Good.

> > >

> > > Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and

> such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of

> Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And

> what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going

to

> go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical

> checking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not,

we

> must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and

> become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must

> check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or

> not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is

> there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her

?

> Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?

> > >

> > > Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why

> cant the study be so good that one does not need all this

parepharnalia

> to predict ?

> > >

> > > If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be

> able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type

of

> astrology are we into ?

> > >

> > > And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think

> whatever you predict will be right ?

> > >

> > > Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no

one.

> He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power

> of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.

> > >

> > > Bhaskar.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > @gro ups.com, " Suprakash Ghosh "

> <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Punitji

> > > >

> > > > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection

> with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual

> time of first cry.

> > > >

> > > > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :

> > > >

> > > > a) A in star of B and B in star of A

> > > > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A

> > > > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A

> > > > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa

> > > > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)

> > > > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third

planet

> C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orb

> with C

> > > > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)

> > > > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)

> > > > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with

> specified orb)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > >

> > > > Suprakash

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > Punit Pandey

> > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM

> > > > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Suprakash ji,

> > > >

> > > > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any

> alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please

let

> us know how you want to do it?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and

> Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have

> this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon

> connection method with your suggestions incorporated.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks & Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Punit Pandey

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh

> <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Punit ji

> > > >

> > > > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us

> know the basic conditions assumed during the test.

> > > > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was

the

> genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts

> been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean

to

> say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection

apparently

> between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged

> stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way?

> > > >

> > > > If not, then the test has no relevance.

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > >

> > > > Suprakash

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > Punit Pandey

> > > > @gro ups.com

> > > > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM

> > > > Re: What is the correct birth time?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Suresh ji,

> > > >

> > > > Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_

> system/message/ 30047). I quote -

> > > >

> > > > 1. " In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is

> practicable as well as logical. "

> > > > 2. " Suggesting further research in this matter is like

> re-inventing the wheel. "

> > > > 3. " When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as

best

> suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist

further

> research on the subject is surprising. "

> > > >

> > > > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method " most often " and

> the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file

> section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it

fiercely

> but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That

is

> the reason I say that we should not " blindly " follow even Stalwarts.

> Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend

> following them " blindly " which also means following incorrect methods.

> > > >

> > > > What we are doing is not further research but merely

verification

> of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a

long

> time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods.

It

> may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in

> interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and

> participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert

attention

> and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and

> we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of

this

> exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally

the

> KP will win.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks & Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Punit Pandey

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@>

> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Punitji,

> > > > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have

obviously

> not read full comment where I have said you can test this method for

> results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw

nerve.Lajmiji,

> s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question

> value of his experience.My only point is research done in so many

> directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will

> be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident if

you

> have read subsequent post.

> > > > Suresh Hattangadi

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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Dear Suprakash,

The Rule for a correct Birth Chart is :

"The Ascendant's sublord and sub-sub-lord must appear as the MOON's Star-lord and Sub-lord respectively...", or vice-versa...(pl. save it on ur machine)

This rule has been discussed and appeared on this site on umpteen occasions....!

With best wishes,

Yogesh Lajmi.

GOOD LUCK !

 

 

 

 

Suprakash Ghosh <suprakash.ghosh Sent: Wed, 30 December, 2009 11:42:11 AMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 Dear members,

 

In my understanding, the rule is RP moon star = Natal Asc Sub and RP Moon sub= Natal asc sub sub.

 

I may be wrong.

Lajmiji please confirm.

 

Regards

 

Suprakash

 

 

 

 

-

Senthil

@gro ups.com

Tuesday, December 29, 2009 6:17 AM

Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Memebrs,

 

//After all , the rule stated by Lajmiji is based on RP ............ ..//

 

To be very clear, It is based on Birth Chart RP only. The RULE is giving very simple relation between the NATAL chart data only. That is

 

"Natal Asc Sub = Natal Moon Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal Moon Sub"

 

Please refer files section Word file,

 

Asc Sub = Moon Star & Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule.docx

 

& the URL given below.

http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 16098?threaded= 1 http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 17262?threaded= 1 http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 20847?threaded= 1 & l=1 http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 22223?threaded= 1 & l=1 http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28249?threaded= 1 & l=1

GOOD LUCK!!

 

D.Senthil--- On Mon, 12/28/09, Subha <suprakash.ghosh@ cesc.co.in> wrote:

Subha <suprakash.ghosh@ cesc.co.in> Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.comMonday, December 28, 2009, 8:34 AM

Punit jiNo , it does not mean that.The relations are just to locate the most representative planet for star/sub lord of moon.After all , the rule stated by Lajmiji is based on RP and RP doesn't always indicate in a streight way. Even Rahu / Ketu may represent Moon star or sublord .Take my conditions as:A = RP moon StarlordB= Expected sub lord in Natal ChartIf A and B have relations as per the rules mentioned by me (please note and stress the 'AND' conditions), we should not blindly put A in place of asc sub lord. Instead, B, a planet not appeared as moon star lord may become strong contender for sub position as well.The same logic is for finding SS lord also.Hope I can clear your doubt.RegardsSuprakash@gro ups.com, Punit Pandey

<punitp wrote:>> Dear Suprakash ji,> > I do not understand how you will use point 'a' to 'h' in case of> ascendnat-moon connection rule?> > Does it mean that -> > Ascedant sub lord can be> 0) moon's star> a) in the star of Moon's star> b) in sub of Moon's star> c) in sign Moon's star> c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa [this is not KP, so> ignoring this]> d) Ascendant sub conjoins Moon's star> e) A third planet is in orb of ascedant sub and moon's star> f) ascendant sub aspects moon's star (vedic)> g) moon's star aspects ascedant sub (vedic)> f) ascendant sub aspects moon's star (vedic)> g) moon's star aspects ascedant sub (vedic)> > If my understanding is correct, at least in the case of ascendant-moon rule> it doesn't make sense because one of the above

condition will be always> going to be satisfied. So many rule, makes almost any time correct. You have> mentioned so many conditions.> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Suprakash Ghosh <> suprakash.ghosh@ ...> wrote:> > >> >> > Dear Punitji> >> > *Collection of reliable birth data* : we need to have connection with> > nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual time of> > first cry.> >> > *As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :*> >> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A> > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg

for moon.merc)> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planet C is> > inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orb with C> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with specified> > orb)> >> >> >> > Regards> >> > Suprakash> >> >> >> > -> > ** Punit Pandey <punitp> > *To:* @gro ups.com> > *Sent:* Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> > *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >>

> Dear Suprakash ji,> >> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and> > better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you> > want to do it?> >> >> >> >> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please> > suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of> > connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your> > suggestions incorporated.> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <> > suprakash.ghosh@ ...> wrote:> >> >>> >>> >> Dear Punit ji> >>> >> Since the study was conducted long

a go, can you please let us know the> >> basic conditions assumed during the test.> >> Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the> >> genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts been> >> analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is> >> that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between> >> moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt> >> conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way?> >>> >> If not, then the test has no relevance.> >>> >> Regards> >>> >> Suprakash> >>> >>> >>> >> -> >> ** Punit Pandey <punitp> >> *To:* @gro ups.com> >> *Sent:* Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> >> *Subject:* Re: What is the correct birth time?> >>> >>> >>> >> Dear Suresh ji,> >>> >> Please see your post (> >> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047). I quote -> >>> >> 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as> >> well as logical."> >> 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the> >> wheel."> >> 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited> >>

and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research> >> on the subject is surprising."> >>> >> *Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and the> >> study found that the method doesn't work.* Please see the file section> >> and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but> >> what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. *That is the> >> reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.* Your> >> opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following> >> them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods.> >>> >> *What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of> >> available methods.* People who are marketing their methods for a long> >> time, now

fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may> >> not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of> >> KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating> >> in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum> >> loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must> >> participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we> >> will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win.> >>> >> Thanks & Regards,> >>> >> Punit Pandey> >>> >>> >> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh .>wrote:> >>> >>>> >>>> >>> Dear Punitji,> >>> I have not

asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not> >>> read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But> >>> again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years> >>> experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his> >>> experience.My only point is research done in so many directions may not be> >>> conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently> >>> by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post.> >>> Suresh Hattangadi> >>>> >>>> >>> > > >>

 

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Dear Lazmi Ji,D.Senthil Ji,Punit Ji,Bhaskar Ji,Kalyan Ji,Tw Ji ,Dr.Rath Ji & other senior members,

I am fowarding birth particulars of my son recorded by my Bhabhi (Dr.Jay Sri) Ji who is a medical doctor and runs her own maternity center in Haldwani,District- Nainital at Mukhani.She records time of first cry of child as correct birth time.Thousands of birth time of first cry of babies may be collected from there.I may provide her cell No. if required to collect birth data of first cry.

Birth particular of my own son is as under:

[1] Male baby (Suyash)

DOB-06th April,1998

TOB-Recorded Time- 10:12AM[Recorded time of first cry]

POB-Haldwani, District- Nainital

Latitude-29N13

Longitude-79E31

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Asc-Sub lord= Moon sub lord=Venus

Asc sub sub lord =Moon star lord=Mercury

 

Other Birth Particulars,

 

[2]Daughter was born in hospital- Time of first cry was recorded

DOB-24th June,1995

TOB-10:56PM

POB-Basti,U. P

Latitude-26N48

Longitude 82E44

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Sun

Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub = Saturn

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

 

[3]My own

DOB-20th April,1959

TOB-08:15AM( Recorded Time) as noted in Janm Patri,Rectified by me as 08:15:56 AM for K.P Ayanamsa only.I think at that time watch was either slow by 56 seconds or watch had not hand showing time up to second.

POB-Basti,U. P,India.

Latitude-26N48

Longitude-82E44

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord = Venus

Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord =Saturn

 

[4]Female,National Institute of Health,Washington D.C

DOB-20.09.1977

POB-Mumbai

TOB-08:30:50AM

Asc sub lord=Moon star lord=Ketu

Asc sub sub lord= Moon sub =Venus

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

 

[5] K.S.Krishnamurty Ji

DOB-01-11-1908

TOB-12:07:30PM

POB-Thiruvayuru

Asc sub lord =Moon star lord=Moon

Asc sub sub lord = Moon sub lord = Mars

K.P Ayanamsa adopted

 

Does there any rule apply? Does recorded birth time of first cry reveal any rule or on what basis you can deny this time.More recorded time of first cry may be collected,if required for study.

Dhirendra Nath Misra

 

 

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Sent: Tue, December 29, 2009 10:46:39 PM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Dear Mishra ji,Logic or not, is a seperate matter, but - Where do we get this rule inmost cases ???regards/Bhaskar.@gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra<dhirendranathmisra wrote:>> Dear D.Senthil Sir,>              Â             Â       // "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"> Â> Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂthe above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONGONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂsaying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply aUSLESS RULE ONLY. //> Â>   Â

          Â             Canyou once again shed some light on the above as to why we get in mostof the cases "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub =Natal MOON Sub" even if there is no logic.Certainly in few cases theabove condition does not apply and necessity arose to find outÂperfect rule beyond doubt.> With thanks & regards,Â> Dhirendra Nath Misra> Â>>>>> ____________ _________ _________ __> Senthil athi_ram @gro ups.com> Tue, December 29, 2009 5:59:23 AM> Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?>> Â> Dear Members,>> The RULE,> Â> "Natal Asc

Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"> Â> Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂthe above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONGONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂsaying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply aUSLESS RULE ONLY.> Â> GOOD LUCK!!>>> D.Senthil>>>> --- On Mon, 12/28/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @ymail.com> wrote:>>> >Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @ ymail.com>> >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?> >@gro ups.com> >Monday, December 28, 2009, 6:54 AM> >> >>

>Â> >Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shiftingrecorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this thedifferent astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birthtime further for different ayanamsas.> >With thanks & regards,Â> >Dhirendra Nath Misra> >Â> >> >> >> >> >> ____________ _________ _________ __> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>> >@gro ups.com> >Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >Â> >Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. Buttrying to find this connection at times shifts the birth

time to half anhour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist whohas come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will lookat us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not readyto listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark.Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that thenatives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recordingof the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before Ipronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwiseI would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moonis not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift thetime to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect.> >> >Bhaskar.> >> >@gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>wrote:>

>>> >> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, andyou will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?> >>> >> Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then notethe time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the deliveryroom ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested? Good.> >>> >> Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods andsuch topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time ofBirth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? Andwhat is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going togo about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physicalchecking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, wemust ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated andbecome

pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we mustcheck for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage ornot- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love isthere between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ?Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?> >>> >> Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Whycant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnaliato predict ?> >>> >> If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will beable to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type ofastrology are we into ?> >>> >> And after having known the time of the first cry, do You thinkwhatever you predict will be right ?> >>> >> Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no

one.He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his powerof discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper.> >>> >> Bhaskar.> >>> >>> >>> >> @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh"<suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> >> >> >> > Dear Punitji> >> >> >> > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connectionwith nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actualtime of first cry.> >> >> >> > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> >> >> >> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> >> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> >> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A> >> > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in

navamsa> >> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> >> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a thirdplanet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentionedorb with C> >> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> >> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> >> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,withspecified orb)> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Regards> >> >> >> > Suprakash> >> >> >> >> >> > -> >> > Punit Pandey> >> > @gro ups.com> >> > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> >> > Re: What is the correct birth

time?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Suprakash ji,> >> >> >> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have anyalternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please letus know how you want to do it?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc andMoon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we havethis definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moonconnection method with your suggestions incorporated.> >> >> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> >> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM,

Suprakash Ghosh<suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Punit ji> >> >> >> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let usknow the basic conditions assumed during the test.> >> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What wasthe genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all thecharts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What Imean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connectionapparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they haveexchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed inthis way?> >> >> >> > If not, then the test has no relevance.> >> >> >> > Regards> >> >> >> >

Suprakash> >> >> >> >> >> > -> >> > Punit Pandey> >> > @gro ups.com> >> > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Suresh ji,> >> >> >> > Please see your post (http://groups. / group//message/ 30047). I quote -> >> >> >> > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji ispracticable as well as logical."> >> > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is likere-inventing the wheel."> >> > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a

particular method asbest suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insistfurther research on the subject is surprising."> >> >> >> > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" andthe study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the filesection and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercelybut what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That isthe reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommendfollowing them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods.> >> >> >> > What we are doing is not further research but merely verificationof available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a longtime, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. Itmay not be in

interest of those individuals but it is definitely ininterest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process andparticipating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attentionand making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale andwe all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of thisexercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally theKP will win.> >> >> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> >> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@>wrote:> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Punitji,> >> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You haveobviously not read full comment where I have said you can test

thismethod for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a rawnerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seemto question value of his experience.My only point is research done in somany directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of datawill be interpreted differently by different people as will be evidentif you have read subsequent post.> >> > Suresh Hattangadi> >> >> >>> >> >> >>

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Dear Larrons ji,Sorry to say that you are coming to the forum by a wrong way.What u are asking? Is there any connection with the existing mail, which u have connected?Please make a new mail and a new Topic, instead of hanging on going discussion for a long time.Help to members to do thier activities without having any obstacles.First be a good reader of group and then be a good participant of the group.SunaparanthaLarrons Antony Raj <larrons_ars Sent: Tue, 29 December, 2009 6:39:09 PMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

Dear members

 

is there any thing called lucky name in kp

initally i thought it (name no.) should signify the improving houses

also it should not signify 6,8,12h

should it signify 11h

pls clarifylarrons

 

 

 

Senthil <athi_ram >@gro ups.comTue, 29 December, 2009 5:59:23 AMRe: Re: What is the correct birth time?

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Members,

The RULE,

 

"Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"

 

Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you apply the above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONG ONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point in saying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply a USLESS RULE ONLY.

 

GOOD LUCK!!

 

 

D.Senthil

 

 

--- On Mon, 12/28/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.com> wrote:

Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra@ ymail.com>Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?@gro ups.comMonday, December 28, 2009, 6:54 AM

 

 

 

Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3 minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth time further for different ayanamsas.

With thanks & regards,

Dhirendra Nath Misra

 

 

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>@gro ups.comSun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark. Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before I pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect. Bhaskar.@gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> wrote:>> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?> > Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested ? Good.> > Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical checking before pronouncing whether a

mother will have child or not, we must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ? Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?> > Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia to predict ? > > If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of astrology are we into ?> > And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think whatever you predict will be right ?> > Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs

to speak to no one. He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper. > > Bhaskar.> > > > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh" <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> >> > Dear Punitji> > > > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual time of first cry.> > > > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> > > > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A > > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> > d) A

conj

B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orb with C> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with specified orb)> > > > > > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > > > > > > > > > Dear

Suprakash

ji,> > > > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you want to do it?> > > > > > > > > > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your suggestions incorporated. > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > > > > > > > Dear Punit ji> > > > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the basic conditions assumed during the test.> >

Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way? > > > > If not, then the test has no relevance.> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >

> > > > > > > > Dear Suresh ji,> > > > Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047). I quote -> > > > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical."> > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel."> > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising."> > > > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study found is just opposite.

The

method doesn't work. That is the reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts. Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods. > > > > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win. > > > > Thanks &

Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@> wrote:> > > > > > Dear Punitji,> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post. > > Suresh Hattangadi> >>

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Dear Dhirendra Nath Misra,

Could you or imaginer of this rule or anyone else kindly provide any chart, for which this rule* is correct, in the whole published astrological literature (Western, Eastern KP, Vedic in English, etc), to prove that it can be correct as you are saying. * as stated in the attachment Thanks and regards,TW

Asc Sub = Moon Star & simultaneously Asc Sub-Sub = Moon Sub Rule(What is this? How to be applied? by Statements and Live Charts?) Statements (1-6)/message/16098?threaded=1/message/17262?threaded=1/message/20847?threaded=1 & l=1/message/22223?threaded=1 & l=1/message/22262?threaded=1/message/28249?threaded=1 & l=1 Chart 1/message/20694/message/20759CUSP Sgl Stl Sbl Ssl :PLANET Sgl Stl Sbl SsL RULING PLANETSASC Mar Sat Moo Ven :SUN. Mer Mar Mer Mer ASC STL :Sat2nd Jup Ket Mer Mer :MOON Sat Moo Ven Ven ASC SGL :Mar(the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Moon & Venus, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively) Chart 2/message/22473/message/22482?threaded=1 & l=1I am pleased to inform you that the exact Time of Birth works out to :00,00,16 A.M., on 12-04-1960...(used K.P.Ayanamsa only)Such that, the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Mars & Jupiter, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively... ! Chart 3/message/23290/message/23309?threaded=1 & l=1Rakesh's TOB requires a small correction...The exact Birth Time of Rakesh is 02-25-00 A.M.Kindly cast the chart for this TOB and check...(the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Mercury & Mercury, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively) Chart 4/message/27814/message/27822?threaded=1 & l=1Your EXACT Birth Time,is 04-17-00. AM. IST.,as per K.P. System,using Krishnamurthi Ayanamsa,and the late Mr.A.R.Raichur's SW... For this TOB,the sub-lord and the sub-sub-lord of your Ascendant,Mars and Saturn,respectively will appear as the Moon's Star-lord and sub-lord respectively. Chart 5/message/27631?threaded=1 & l=1Kindly recall that as far back as on 12-10-2006,I had corrected your TOB be EXACTLY, 10-14-30..../message/28059?threaded=1 & l=1 I am pleased to inform you that the TOB rectified by me was confirmed by Mr. Gurmeet Singh...10-14-30 AM. IST at Ludhiana...I have sent many a BTRs through this site...ALL of them have proved correct,except perhaps a single exception.../message/28061?threaded=1 & l=1The correct birth time is 10:14:30 AM. Lajmi ji and I rectified my birth time.(the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Venus & Mercury, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively) Chart 6/message/27685/message/27706Kindly correct the Birth Time in the Chart,as per K.P., you will find a different picture...as the TOB will emerge as 08-18-00. AM.Then analyse the IInd cusp for financial position/standing...CUSP Sgl Stl Sbl Ssl :PLANET Sgl Stl Sbl SsLASC Ven Jup Ven Sat :SUN. Ven Moo Moo Jup 2nd Mar Mer Jup Moo :MO Jup Ven Sat Mer (the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Venus & Saturn, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively) Chart 7/message/28523?threaded=1 & l=1/message/28588Did you check whether the TOB is correct ?I have corrected the TOB,it is 18-29-00.CUSP Sgl Stl Sbl Ssl :PLANET Sgl Stl Sbl SsL ASC Ven Jup Ven Sat :SUN. Ven Moo Moo Jup 2nd Mar Mer Jup Moo :MOO Jup Ven Sat Mer(the Ascendant sub-lord and sub-sub-lord, Venus & Saturn, appear as the Moon's star lord and sublord respectively)

, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra wrote:>> Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by shifting recorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3 minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this the different astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birth time further for different ayanamsas.> With thanks & regards, > Dhirendra Nath Misra>  > > > > > ________________________________> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish > Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM> Re: What is the correct birth time?> >  > Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. But trying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half an hour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist who has come with his horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will look at us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not ready to listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark. Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that the natives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recording of the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before I pronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwise I would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moon is not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift the time to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect. > > Bhaskar.> > @gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...> wrote:> >> > Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, and you will bring more respect on them with this excersise ?> > > > Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then note the time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the delivery room ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested ? Good.> > > > Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods and such topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time of Birth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? And what is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going to go about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physical checking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, we must ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated and become pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we must check for a girl who is asking whether she will have love marriage or not- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love is there between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ? Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?> > > > Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Why cant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnalia to predict ? > > > > If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will be able to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type of astrology are we into ?> > > > And after having known the time of the first cry, do You think whatever you predict will be right ?> > > > Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one. He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his power of discriminations and his Panchanga, Pen and paper. > > > > Bhaskar.> > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh" <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > >> > > Dear Punitji> > > > > > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connection with nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actual time of first cry.> > > > > > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> > > > > > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> > > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> > > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A > > > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> > > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> > > e) If A and B are not with in the specified orb, if a third planet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentioned orb with C> > > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> > > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> > > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,with specified orb)> > > > > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > Suprakash> > > > > > > > > - > > > Punit Pandey > > > @gro ups.com > > > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> > > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > > > > > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have any alternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please let us know how you want to do it?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc and Moon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we have this definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moon connection method with your suggestions incorporated. > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh <suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Punit ji> > > > > > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let us know the basic conditions assumed during the test.> > > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What was the genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all the charts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What I mean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connection apparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they have exchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed in this way? > > > > > > If not, then the test has no relevance.> > > > > > Regards> > > > > > Suprakash> > > > > > > > > - > > > Punit Pandey > > > @gro ups.com > > > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> > > Re: What is the correct birth time?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Suresh ji,> > > > > > Please see your post (http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 30047). I quote -> > > > > > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji is practicable as well as logical."> > > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is like re-inventing the wheel."> > > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method as best suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insist further research on the subject is surprising."> > > > > > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" and the study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the file section and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercely but what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That is the reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts. Your opinion (point no. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommend following them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods. > > > > > > What we are doing is not further research but merely verification of available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a long time, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. It may not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely in interest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification process and participating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attention and making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale and we all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of this exercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally the KP will win. > > > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > Dear Punitji,> > > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You have obviously not read full comment where I have said you can test this method for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a raw nerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in KP notwithstanding you seem to question value of his experience.My only point is research done in so many directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of data will be interpreted differently by different people as will be evident if you have read subsequent post. > > > Suresh Hattangadi> > >> >>

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Dear Bhaskar,

The Time of Epoch,or the exact time when the human egg is fertilised is approximately 273 days before the TOB....in most cases of normal deliveries...

Ms. Linda Goodman, in her excellent Book, "Love Signs", has written an article captioned

"A Time to Embrace"...in which she has said that ancient Kings were advised by their astrologers ,

shamans etc.,that the best time for the Queen to conceive was during the few hours when the Sun and Moon,are exactly at the same number of degrees apart,as they were at the Time of her birth.

It was later found by KSK and researched upon by K.P. Scholars,that the Ruling Planets

at the fertilisation (of the human egg,by the human sperm),were the very same at theTime of Birth (and also of one's death,too !)...in around over 60 % of cases...

Further research showed that at the EXACT Time Of Birth,the Ascendant sublord should the same or is in the same star of the Moon's Star-lord...(which can be extended to,depending upon the SW one is using to... Ascendant's sub lord and sub-sub-lord which should appear as the starlord and sub-lord of the Moon.)

This is the background for what is said by the late Shri M.P.Shanmugham in his very illuminating book...and perhaps what Mr.Dhirendranath was trying to say...

With kind regards,

Yogesh Lajmi

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Sent: Tue, 29 December, 2009 10:46:39 PM Re: What is the correct birth time?

Dear Mishra ji,Logic or not, is a seperate matter, but - Where do we get this rule inmost cases ???regards/Bhaskar.@gro ups.com, Dhirendra Nath Misra<dhirendranathmisra wrote:>> Dear D.Senthil Sir,>              Â             Â       // "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"> Â> Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂthe above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONGONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂsaying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply aUSLESS RULE ONLY. //> Â>   Â

          Â             Canyou once again shed some light on the above as to why we get in mostof the cases "Natal Asc Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub =Natal MOON Sub" even if there is no logic.Certainly in few cases theabove condition does not apply and necessity arose to find outÂperfect rule beyond doubt.> With thanks & regards,Â> Dhirendra Nath Misra> Â>>>>> ____________ _________ _________ __> Senthil athi_ram @gro ups.com> Tue, December 29, 2009 5:59:23 AM> Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?>> Â> Dear Members,>> The RULE,> Â> "Natal Asc

Sub = Natal MOON Star & Natal Asc Sub-Sub = Natal MOON Sub"> Â> Can’t be considered as RULE at all. Hence whether you applyÂthe above rule for few seconds or few minutes all are WRONGONLY. When there is NO LOGIC in the RULE then there is no point inÂsaying different ayanamsas etc here to justify the RULE. It is simply aUSLESS RULE ONLY.> Â> GOOD LUCK!!>>> D.Senthil>>>> --- On Mon, 12/28/09, Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @ymail.com> wrote:>>> >Dhirendra Nath Misra <dhirendranathmisra @ ymail.com>> >Re: Re: What is the correct birth time?> >@gro ups.com> >Monday, December 28, 2009, 6:54 AM> >> >> >Â> >Dear Sir,The above rule may be accepted as true if by

shiftingrecorded birth time for few seconds(in exceptional cases up to 3minutes) only we can apply the above rule.Besides this thedifferent astrologers will have to change the recorded/rectified birthtime further for different ayanamsas.> >With thanks & regards,Â> >Dhirendra Nath Misra> >Â> >> >> >> >> >> ____________ _________ _________ __> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>> >@gro ups.com> >Sun, December 27, 2009 11:49:45 AM> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >Â> >Asc-Moon connection may be right or wrong way God Knows this. Buttrying to find this connection at times shifts the birth time to half anhour on either sides of recorded time. In this case when the Querist whohas come with his

horoscope, if told this possibility, then he will lookat us as if we have come out of some mad house, because he is not readyto listen that his recorded birth time can be so awfully off the mark.Especially I tried this once on a case where I did not know that thenatives father is himself an astrologer and had made perfect recordingof the birth time of this native who had come to me. Thank God before Ipronounced my verdict, he told me this fact, and I kept quiet otherwiseI would have lost face that day, had I told him that Your asc and Moonis not having any StarLord or SubLord connection so I have to shift thetime to 30 minutes ahead to make them connect.> >> >Bhaskar.> >> >@gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>wrote:> >>> >> Already the Astrologers are a very respected lot in society, andyou will bring more

respect on them with this excersise ?> >>> >> Now astrologers will sit in front of delivery rooms and then notethe time of cry every time the expectant mother is taken to the deliveryroom ? Is this the state we have been brought down to,as being suggested? Good..> >>> >> Then what is the point of discussion of rectification methods andsuch topics, if only the first cry is going to constitute the time ofBirth, then who has checked our cry and the cries of rest of us ? Andwhat is the sense of doing astrology if this is the way we are going togo about checking matters ? This means that we must do all physicalchecking before pronouncing whether a mother will have child or not, wemust ask her to get medical reports of her having got impregnated andbecome pregnant ? Why? What is the astrologer for ? This means we mustcheck for a girl who is asking whether she will

have love marriage ornot- every evening go where she goes, whom she meets, how much love isthere between her and the boy, before pronouncing LOve marriage to her ?Then what is the astrologer doing astrology for ?> >>> >> Why does a good astrologer need external help for all this ? Whycant the study be so good that one does not need all this parepharnaliato predict ?> >>> >> If you are told the time of the first cry, only then you will beable to predict in detail about that child? Otherwise not ? What type ofastrology are we into ?> >>> >> And after having known the time of the first cry, do You thinkwhatever you predict will be right ?> >>> >> Boss this is not astrology. An astrologer needs to speak to no one.He must be efficient enough to get the answers on his own by his powerof discriminations and his

Panchanga, Pen and paper.> >>> >> Bhaskar.> >>> >>> >>> >> @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh"<suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> >> >> >> > Dear Punitji> >> >> >> > Collection of reliable birth data : we need to have connectionwith nursing homes / docs and have to volunteer to get the the actualtime of first cry.> >> >> >> > As per my understanding, two planets A & B are connected if :> >> >> >> > a) A in star of B and B in star of A> >> > b) A in sub of B and B in sub of A> >> > c) A in sign of B and B in sign of A> >> > c-1)A in sign of B and B in sign of A in navamsa> >> > d) A conj B (3 deg 20min, 5 deg for moon.merc)> >> > e) If A and

B are not with in the specified orb, if a thirdplanet C is inbetween and each one of A & B maintains a gap of mentionedorb with C> >> > f) A aspect B (vedic, with specified orb)> >> > g)B aspect A (vedic, with specified orb)> >> > h) A aspect B (Western, Trine Sextile and semisextile ,withspecified orb)> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Regards> >> >> >> > Suprakash> >> >> >> >> >> > -> >> > Punit Pandey> >> > @gro ups.com> >> > Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:32 PM> >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear

Suprakash ji,> >> >> >> > AAA is the best we have available with us. If you have anyalternate and better method for verification, it is welcome. Please letus know how you want to do it?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Also, if you want to test indirect connection between Asc andMoon, please suggest how you want to define connection? Once we havethis definition of connection, we can again try verifying Asc-Moonconnection method with your suggestions incorporated.> >> >> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> >> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Suprakash Ghosh<suprakash.ghosh@ > wrote:> >> >> >> >> >> >>

>> > Dear Punit ji> >> >> >> > Since the study was conducted long a go, can you please let usknow the basic conditions assumed during the test.> >> > Was the test conducted one at a time or all together? What wasthe genuinity of the birth time? AAA rating is not all.Have all thecharts been analysed individually? Astrology is not mathematics. What Imean to say is that, suppose a particular chart has no no connectionapparently between moon star and asc sub. but in the chat, they haveexchanged stars or in rapt conjunction. Was all the charts analysed inthis way?> >> >> >> > If not, then the test has no relevance.> >> >> >> > Regards> >> >> >> > Suprakash> >> >> >> >> >> > -> >> >

Punit Pandey> >> > @gro ups.com> >> > Friday, December 18, 2009 10:56 AM> >> > Re: What is the correct birth time?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Suresh ji,> >> >> >> > Please see your post (http://groups. / group//message/ 30047). I quote -> >> >> >> > 1. "In actual practice only method suggested by Lajmiji ispracticable as well as logical."> >> > 2. "Suggesting further research in this matter is likere-inventing the wheel."> >> > 3. "When KP stalwarts have recommended a particular method asbest suited and giving correct results, to disbelieve that and insistfurther research on the

subject is surprising."> >> >> >> > Lajmi ji recommends Asc-Moon connection method "most often" andthe study found that the method doesn't work. Please see the filesection and you can get the study. Stalwarts were advocating it fiercelybut what study found is just opposite. The method doesn't work. That isthe reason I say that we should not "blindly" follow even Stalwarts.Your opinion (point no.. 3 above) is just opposite and you recommendfollowing them "blindly" which also means following incorrect methods.> >> >> >> > What we are doing is not further research but merely verificationof available methods. People who are marketing their methods for a longtime, now fearing and resisting because it will expose those methods. Itmay not be in interest of those individuals but it is definitely ininterest of KP. Instead of appreciating this verification

process andparticipating in it, I wounder why people are trying to divert attentionand making forum loose focus. This is first exercise of this scale andwe all must participate in it and make it successful. At the end of thisexercise, we will know which methods work and which doesn't. Finally theKP will win.> >> >> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> >> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:52 PM, suresh <hattangadi_ suresh@>wrote:> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Punitji,> >> > I have not asked you to follow anything blindly.You haveobviously not read full comment where I have said you can test thismethod for results.But again obviously my comment has touched a rawnerve.Lajmiji, s forty years experience in

KP notwithstanding you seemto question value of his experience.My only point is research done in somany directions may not be conclusive.Apart from this same set of datawill be interpreted differently by different people as will be evidentif you have read subsequent post.> >> > Suresh Hattangadi> >> >> >>> >> >> >>

 

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