Barack Obama or John McCain: last thoughts

November 5, 2008

Thank you, dear Brian...

Although there may be some question about the birth certificates of both

candidates, I have been using them with good results.

I think it is quite possible that the certificates are authentic, which

makes reading the charts quite easy using Systems' Approach.

Best wishes to you, as always, my dear friend...

David Hawthorne

SAMVA [sAMVA ] On Behalf Of

Brian Conrad

Wednesday, November 05, 2008 1:50 PM

SAMVA

Re: Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last thoughts

Nice interpretation, David. It is interesting how often the most simple

elements in the horoscope give rise to what is really going on.

Cheers,

Brian Conrad

JyotishTools.com

David Hawthorne wrote:

> Dear Friends...

>

> Assuming the two birth certificates are correct, the rising signs for

> Senators McCain and Obama are Aquarius and Capricorn, respectively.

>

> The sub period ruler for Senator Obama is an exalted Moon, which is a

> functional benefic.

>

> The sub period ruler for Senator McCain is an exalted Mercury, which is

his

> most malefic planet.

>

> The transit of the Moon will be in Senator Obama's first house this

evening,

> and in Senator McCain's twelfth house.

>

> Saturn, in the first house in Capricorn in the natal chart for Senator

> Obama, shows the potential to lead the masses and the poor and the needy.

>

> In my opinion, Senator Obama has a very good chance to win the election.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> David Hawthorne

> Fairfield, Iowa USA

>

> SAMVA [sAMVA ] On Behalf Of

> cosmologer

> Monday, November 03, 2008 5:00 AM

> SAMVA

> Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last thoughts

>

> Hello ,

>

> The afflicting aspect of 6th lord JUPITER to 8th lord SATURN, which

> is now with a 1° 40' orb, may indeed be interpreted as such that the

> political opposition (Obama) is upsetting groups indicated by Saturn,

> including miners and coal! The affliction of transit Jupiter to natal

> 4th lord VENUS is making the communal harmony more fraught with upset

> and this aspect peaks on November 7.

>

> Now, if Obama loses the election on November 4, groups indicated by

> Saturn, such as those historically receiving unfair treatment, may

> become upset. The upset there would be expected to become more

> intense as the affliction becomes exact on November 21, when also the

> affliction of natal 8th lord SATURN to transit Saturn is becoming

> close. Due to such affliction in the SAMVA USA chart, it is

> considered likely that some violence will take place later in

> November.

>

> Of course, this is just conjecture. There is still too much

> uncertainty regarding the true birth times of Obama and McCain. In

> any event, even if Obama were to win, the aspects are still there in

> the SAMVA USA chart, and their expression would then be expected to

> take another form, such as hinted in my earlier message.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

>

> PS listmembers are encouraged to include their name or id in the

> posts.

>

> SAMVA , " echong108 " <echong108 wrote:

>

>>> Moreover, [McCain's] weak but well placed Saturn will also be

>>>

> well

>

>> placed, as will his other FBs.

>>

>> According to analysis of the electoral college maps by political

>> pundits, McCain's most realistic way to win the election is to pull

>> off an upset victory in Pennsylvania. Polls seem to show the race

>> tightening there. Also, in the last day or so, the McCain campaign

>>

> is

>

>> focusing on some remarks, perhaps taken out of context, that Obama

>>

> has

>

>> said about the coal industry. Pennsylvania is famous for its large

>> anthracite coal deposits. Also, the McCain campaign seems to be

>> getting some traction by using " Joe the Plumber " to help appeal to

>>

> the

>

>> masses. He's also recently appeared at a couple of his rallies in

>>

> the

>

>> neighboring state of Ohio.

>>

>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Saturn the significator for both

>> coal and plumbers? If McCain somehow manages to pull off a win, it

>> could be through his Saturn manifesting through these things.

>>

>

> ---

>

November 6, 2008

Give us a break. How can you congratulate David on a successful

prediction when it was made many hours into the election on the very

day. Exit polls had already been posted as well as the many polls for

weeks showing Obama leading the popular vote as well as the important

electoral college states. My own 7 year old successfully predicted the

outcome of the election as well on those terms alone. Should I then

consider that a " astrological prediction " too? Anyway, there is a

50/50 chance of making the right " prediction " by that point.

Now, if David had made this prediction 2 months ago I would consider

that a legitimate prediction, but don't say almost halfway into an

second by second news media frenzy who the winner is and consider that

a fulfilled prediction.

All the Best,

Draupadi

SAMVA , " P R Chandna " <prchandna wrote:

>

> Dear Mr. David,

> Congratulations in correctly predicting the event.

> Regards

> P R Chandna

>

> -

> David Hawthorne

> SAMVA

> Wednesday, November 05, 2008 12:15 AM

> RE: Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last thoughts

>

> Dear Friends...

>

> Assuming the two birth certificates are correct, the rising signs for

> Senators McCain and Obama are Aquarius and Capricorn, respectively.

>

> The sub period ruler for Senator Obama is an exalted Moon, which is a

> functional benefic.

>

> The sub period ruler for Senator McCain is an exalted Mercury,

which is his

> most malefic planet.

>

> The transit of the Moon will be in Senator Obama's first house

this evening,

> and in Senator McCain's twelfth house.

>

> Saturn, in the first house in Capricorn in the natal chart for Senator

> Obama, shows the potential to lead the masses and the poor and the

needy.

>

> In my opinion, Senator Obama has a very good chance to win the

election.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> David Hawthorne

> Fairfield, Iowa USA

>

> SAMVA [sAMVA ] On

Behalf Of

> cosmologer

> Monday, November 03, 2008 5:00 AM

> SAMVA

> Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last thoughts

>

> Hello ,

>

> The afflicting aspect of 6th lord JUPITER to 8th lord SATURN, which

> is now with a 1° 40' orb, may indeed be interpreted as such that the

> political opposition (Obama) is upsetting groups indicated by Saturn,

> including miners and coal! The affliction of transit Jupiter to natal

> 4th lord VENUS is making the communal harmony more fraught with upset

> and this aspect peaks on November 7.

>

> Now, if Obama loses the election on November 4, groups indicated by

> Saturn, such as those historically receiving unfair treatment, may

> become upset. The upset there would be expected to become more

> intense as the affliction becomes exact on November 21, when also the

> affliction of natal 8th lord SATURN to transit Saturn is becoming

> close. Due to such affliction in the SAMVA USA chart, it is

> considered likely that some violence will take place later in

> November.

>

> Of course, this is just conjecture. There is still too much

> uncertainty regarding the true birth times of Obama and McCain. In

> any event, even if Obama were to win, the aspects are still there in

> the SAMVA USA chart, and their expression would then be expected to

> take another form, such as hinted in my earlier message.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

>

> PS listmembers are encouraged to include their name or id in the

> posts.

>

> SAMVA , " echong108 " <echong108@> wrote:

> >

> > > Moreover, [McCain's] weak but well placed Saturn will also be

> well

> > placed, as will his other FBs.

> >

> > According to analysis of the electoral college maps by political

> > pundits, McCain's most realistic way to win the election is to pull

> > off an upset victory in Pennsylvania. Polls seem to show the race

> > tightening there. Also, in the last day or so, the McCain campaign

> is

> > focusing on some remarks, perhaps taken out of context, that Obama

> has

> > said about the coal industry. Pennsylvania is famous for its large

> > anthracite coal deposits. Also, the McCain campaign seems to be

> > getting some traction by using " Joe the Plumber " to help appeal to

> the

> > masses. He's also recently appeared at a couple of his rallies in

> the

> > neighboring state of Ohio.

> >

> > Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Saturn the significator for both

> > coal and plumbers? If McCain somehow manages to pull off a win, it

> > could be through his Saturn manifesting through these things.

> >

>

> ---

>

November 6, 2008

Hello Draupadi,

It is possible the prediction was made earlier but shared on SAMVA only

recently.

In any event, the focus is now on drawing lessons from the outcome, including

rectifying the chart for Obama.

One additional point on list interaction, with my hat on as list moderator.

While new members are invited and encouraged to post they are asked to please do

so in a spirit of respect and consideration for the scholarly and helpful

contributions of others.

Best wishes,

Thor

SAMVA , " d_bandhari " <d_bandhari wrote:

>

> Give us a break. How can you congratulate David on a successful

> prediction when it was made many hours into the election on the very

> day. Exit polls had already been posted as well as the many polls for

> weeks showing Obama leading the popular vote as well as the important

> electoral college states. My own 7 year old successfully predicted the

> outcome of the election as well on those terms alone. Should I then

> consider that a " astrological prediction " too? Anyway, there is a

> 50/50 chance of making the right " prediction " by that point.

>

> Now, if David had made this prediction 2 months ago I would consider

> that a legitimate prediction, but don't say almost halfway into an

> second by second news media frenzy who the winner is and consider that

> a fulfilled prediction.

>

> All the Best,

> Draupadi

>

> SAMVA , " P R Chandna " <prchandna@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Mr. David,

> > Congratulations in correctly predicting the event.

> > Regards

> > P R Chandna

> >

> > -

> > David Hawthorne

> > SAMVA

> > Wednesday, November 05, 2008 12:15 AM

> > RE: Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last thoughts

> >

> > Dear Friends...

> >

> > Assuming the two birth certificates are correct, the rising signs for

> > Senators McCain and Obama are Aquarius and Capricorn, respectively.

> >

> > The sub period ruler for Senator Obama is an exalted Moon, which is a

> > functional benefic.

> >

> > The sub period ruler for Senator McCain is an exalted Mercury,

> which is his

> > most malefic planet.

> >

> > The transit of the Moon will be in Senator Obama's first house

> this evening,

> > and in Senator McCain's twelfth house.

> >

> > Saturn, in the first house in Capricorn in the natal chart for Senator

> > Obama, shows the potential to lead the masses and the poor and the

> needy.

> >

> > In my opinion, Senator Obama has a very good chance to win the

> election.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > David Hawthorne

> > Fairfield, Iowa USA

> >

> > SAMVA [sAMVA ] On

> Behalf Of

> > cosmologer

> > Monday, November 03, 2008 5:00 AM

> > SAMVA

> > Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last thoughts

> >

> > Hello ,

> >

> > The afflicting aspect of 6th lord JUPITER to 8th lord SATURN, which

> > is now with a 1° 40' orb, may indeed be interpreted as such that the

> > political opposition (Obama) is upsetting groups indicated by Saturn,

> > including miners and coal! The affliction of transit Jupiter to natal

> > 4th lord VENUS is making the communal harmony more fraught with upset

> > and this aspect peaks on November 7.

> >

> > Now, if Obama loses the election on November 4, groups indicated by

> > Saturn, such as those historically receiving unfair treatment, may

> > become upset. The upset there would be expected to become more

> > intense as the affliction becomes exact on November 21, when also the

> > affliction of natal 8th lord SATURN to transit Saturn is becoming

> > close. Due to such affliction in the SAMVA USA chart, it is

> > considered likely that some violence will take place later in

> > November.

> >

> > Of course, this is just conjecture. There is still too much

> > uncertainty regarding the true birth times of Obama and McCain. In

> > any event, even if Obama were to win, the aspects are still there in

> > the SAMVA USA chart, and their expression would then be expected to

> > take another form, such as hinted in my earlier message.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > Thor

> >

> > PS listmembers are encouraged to include their name or id in the

> > posts.

> >

> > SAMVA , " echong108 " <echong108@> wrote:

> > >

> > > > Moreover, [McCain's] weak but well placed Saturn will also be

> > well

> > > placed, as will his other FBs.

> > >

> > > According to analysis of the electoral college maps by political

> > > pundits, McCain's most realistic way to win the election is to pull

> > > off an upset victory in Pennsylvania. Polls seem to show the race

> > > tightening there. Also, in the last day or so, the McCain campaign

> > is

> > > focusing on some remarks, perhaps taken out of context, that Obama

> > has

> > > said about the coal industry. Pennsylvania is famous for its large

> > > anthracite coal deposits. Also, the McCain campaign seems to be

> > > getting some traction by using " Joe the Plumber " to help appeal to

> > the

> > > masses. He's also recently appeared at a couple of his rallies in

> > the

> > > neighboring state of Ohio.

> > >

> > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Saturn the significator for both

> > > coal and plumbers? If McCain somehow manages to pull off a win, it

> > > could be through his Saturn manifesting through these things.

> > >

> >

> > ---

> >

November 6, 2008

Dear All,

I totally agree with Thor.

With that positive note by Thor. We should now look forward and take positive steps ahead to take the principle of SA forward.

With Best respect to one and all.

P R Chandna

-

cosmologer

SAMVA

Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:33 AM

Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last thoughts

Hello Draupadi,It is possible the prediction was made earlier but shared on SAMVA only recently.In any event, the focus is now on drawing lessons from the outcome, including rectifying the chart for Obama.One additional point on list interaction, with my hat on as list moderator. While new members are invited and encouraged to post they are asked to please do so in a spirit of respect and consideration for the scholarly and helpful contributions of others.Best wishes,Thor SAMVA , "d_bandhari" <d_bandhari wrote:>> Give us a break. How can you congratulate David on a successful> prediction when it was made many hours into the election on the very> day. Exit polls had already been posted as well as the many polls for> weeks showing Obama leading the popular vote as well as the important> electoral college states. My own 7 year old successfully predicted the> outcome of the election as well on those terms alone. Should I then> consider that a "astrological prediction" too? Anyway, there is a> 50/50 chance of making the right "prediction" by that point.> > Now, if David had made this prediction 2 months ago I would consider> that a legitimate prediction, but don't say almost halfway into an> second by second news media frenzy who the winner is and consider that> a fulfilled prediction.> > All the Best,> Draupadi> > > > SAMVA , "P R Chandna" <prchandna@> wrote:> >> > Dear Mr. David,> > Congratulations in correctly predicting the event.> > Regards> > P R Chandna> > > > - > > David Hawthorne > > SAMVA > > Wednesday, November 05, 2008 12:15 AM> > RE: Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last thoughts> > > > > > Dear Friends...> > > > Assuming the two birth certificates are correct, the rising signs for> > Senators McCain and Obama are Aquarius and Capricorn, respectively.> > > > The sub period ruler for Senator Obama is an exalted Moon, which is a> > functional benefic.> > > > The sub period ruler for Senator McCain is an exalted Mercury,> which is his> > most malefic planet.> > > > The transit of the Moon will be in Senator Obama's first house> this evening,> > and in Senator McCain's twelfth house.> > > > Saturn, in the first house in Capricorn in the natal chart for Senator> > Obama, shows the potential to lead the masses and the poor and the> needy.> > > > In my opinion, Senator Obama has a very good chance to win the> election.> > > > Best wishes, > > > > David Hawthorne> > Fairfield, Iowa USA> > > > > > > > > > SAMVA [sAMVA ] On> Behalf Of> > cosmologer> > Monday, November 03, 2008 5:00 AM> > SAMVA > > Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last thoughts> > > > Hello ,> > > > The afflicting aspect of 6th lord JUPITER to 8th lord SATURN, which > > is now with a 1° 40' orb, may indeed be interpreted as such that the > > political opposition (Obama) is upsetting groups indicated by Saturn, > > including miners and coal! The affliction of transit Jupiter to natal > > 4th lord VENUS is making the communal harmony more fraught with upset > > and this aspect peaks on November 7. > > > > Now, if Obama loses the election on November 4, groups indicated by > > Saturn, such as those historically receiving unfair treatment, may > > become upset. The upset there would be expected to become more > > intense as the affliction becomes exact on November 21, when also the > > affliction of natal 8th lord SATURN to transit Saturn is becoming > > close. Due to such affliction in the SAMVA USA chart, it is > > considered likely that some violence will take place later in > > November.> > > > Of course, this is just conjecture. There is still too much > > uncertainty regarding the true birth times of Obama and McCain. In > > any event, even if Obama were to win, the aspects are still there in > > the SAMVA USA chart, and their expression would then be expected to > > take another form, such as hinted in my earlier message.> > > > Best wishes,> > > > Thor> > > > PS listmembers are encouraged to include their name or id in the > > posts.> > > > SAMVA , "echong108" <echong108@> wrote:> > >> > > > Moreover, [McCain's] weak but well placed Saturn will also be > > well> > > placed, as will his other FBs.> > > > > > According to analysis of the electoral college maps by political> > > pundits, McCain's most realistic way to win the election is to pull> > > off an upset victory in Pennsylvania. Polls seem to show the race> > > tightening there. Also, in the last day or so, the McCain campaign > > is> > > focusing on some remarks, perhaps taken out of context, that Obama > > has> > > said about the coal industry. Pennsylvania is famous for its large> > > anthracite coal deposits. Also, the McCain campaign seems to be> > > getting some traction by using "Joe the Plumber" to help appeal to > > the> > > masses. He's also recently appeared at a couple of his rallies in > > the> > > neighboring state of Ohio.> > > > > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Saturn the significator for both> > > coal and plumbers? If McCain somehow manages to pull off a win, it> > > could be through his Saturn manifesting through these things.> > >> > > > ---> > > >

November 6, 2008

Hi,

Does any one have ability to predict what would OBAMA'a first term look like? Mahendra Sharma predicts that USA stock market will go to 30000 in next five years. Do you guys see that way??? --- On Thu, 11/6/08, cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

cosmologer <cosmologer Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last thoughtsSAMVA Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 12:03 AM

Hello Draupadi,It is possible the prediction was made earlier but shared on SAMVA only recently.In any event, the focus is now on drawing lessons from the outcome, including rectifying the chart for Obama.One additional point on list interaction, with my hat on as list moderator. While new members are invited and encouraged to post they are asked to please do so in a spirit of respect and consideration for the scholarly and helpful contributions of others.Best wishes,Thor SAMVA , "d_bandhari" <d_bandhari@ ...> wrote:>> Give us a break. How can you congratulate David on a successful> prediction when it was made many hours into the election on the very> day. Exit polls had already been posted as well as the many polls for> weeks showing Obama leading the popular vote as

well as the important> electoral college states. My own 7 year old successfully predicted the> outcome of the election as well on those terms alone. Should I then> consider that a "astrological prediction" too? Anyway, there is a> 50/50 chance of making the right "prediction" by that point.> > Now, if David had made this prediction 2 months ago I would consider> that a legitimate prediction, but don't say almost halfway into an> second by second news media frenzy who the winner is and consider that> a fulfilled prediction.> > All the Best,> Draupadi> > > > SAMVA , "P R Chandna" <prchandna@> wrote:> >> > Dear Mr. David,> > Congratulations in correctly predicting the event.> > Regards> > P R

Chandna> > > > - > > David Hawthorne > > SAMVA > > Wednesday, November 05, 2008 12:15 AM> > RE: Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last thoughts> > > > > > Dear Friends...> > > > Assuming the two birth certificates are correct, the rising signs for> > Senators McCain and Obama are Aquarius and Capricorn, respectively.> > > > The sub period ruler for Senator Obama is an exalted Moon, which is a> > functional benefic.> > > > The sub period ruler for Senator McCain is an exalted Mercury,> which is his> > most malefic planet.> > > > The transit of the Moon will be in Senator Obama's first house> this

evening,> > and in Senator McCain's twelfth house.> > > > Saturn, in the first house in Capricorn in the natal chart for Senator> > Obama, shows the potential to lead the masses and the poor and the> needy.> > > > In my opinion, Senator Obama has a very good chance to win the> election.> > > > Best wishes, > > > > David Hawthorne> > Fairfield, Iowa USA> > > > > > > > > > SAMVA [sAMVA ] On> Behalf Of> > cosmologer> > Monday, November 03, 2008 5:00 AM> > SAMVA > > Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last thoughts> > > > Hello ,> > > > The afflicting aspect of 6th lord JUPITER to 8th lord SATURN, which > > is now with a 1° 40' orb, may indeed be interpreted as such that the > > political opposition (Obama) is upsetting groups indicated by Saturn, > > including miners and coal! The affliction of transit Jupiter to natal > > 4th lord VENUS is making the communal harmony more fraught with upset > > and this aspect peaks on November 7. > > > > Now, if Obama loses the election on November 4, groups indicated by > > Saturn, such as those historically receiving unfair treatment, may > > become upset. The upset there would be expected to become more > > intense as the affliction becomes exact on November 21, when also

the > > affliction of natal 8th lord SATURN to transit Saturn is becoming > > close. Due to such affliction in the SAMVA USA chart, it is > > considered likely that some violence will take place later in > > November.> > > > Of course, this is just conjecture. There is still too much > > uncertainty regarding the true birth times of Obama and McCain. In > > any event, even if Obama were to win, the aspects are still there in > > the SAMVA USA chart, and their expression would then be expected to > > take another form, such as hinted in my earlier message.> > > > Best wishes,> > > > Thor> > > > PS listmembers are encouraged to include their name or id in the > > posts.> > > > SAMVA (AT) (DOT)

com, "echong108" <echong108@> wrote:> > >> > > > Moreover, [McCain's] weak but well placed Saturn will also be > > well> > > placed, as will his other FBs.> > > > > > According to analysis of the electoral college maps by political> > > pundits, McCain's most realistic way to win the election is to pull> > > off an upset victory in Pennsylvania. Polls seem to show the race> > > tightening there. Also, in the last day or so, the McCain campaign > > is> > > focusing on some remarks, perhaps taken out of context, that Obama > > has> > > said about the coal industry. Pennsylvania is famous for its large> > > anthracite coal deposits. Also, the McCain campaign seems to be> > > getting some traction by using "Joe the Plumber" to help appeal to > >

the> > > masses. He's also recently appeared at a couple of his rallies in > > the> > > neighboring state of Ohio.> > > > > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Saturn the significator for both> > > coal and plumbers? If McCain somehow manages to pull off a win, it> > > could be through his Saturn manifesting through these things.> > >> > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------> > > >

November 6, 2008

Hello dear Mr. Peter,

Well this is a long period for seeing whether the prediction is right or wrong. But the figure of 30000 is too distant a vision. As per SAMVA USA chart, which I and most of the members of the group believe, the period of Saturn sub period would run in the main period of Venus after the current sub period of Jupiter is over. Saturn is lord of the eighth house and Venus is placed in the sixth house. The duration of this sub period is 38 months.

Best wishes.

-

Peter P

SAMVA

Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:07 PM

Re: Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last thoughts

Hi,

Does any one have ability to predict what would OBAMA'a first term look like? Mahendra Sharma predicts that USA stock market will go to 30000 in next five years. Do you guys see that way??? --- On Thu, 11/6/08, cosmologer <cosmologer > wrote:

cosmologer <cosmologer > Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last thoughtsSAMVA Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 12:03 AM

Hello Draupadi,It is possible the prediction was made earlier but shared on SAMVA only recently.In any event, the focus is now on drawing lessons from the outcome, including rectifying the chart for Obama.One additional point on list interaction, with my hat on as list moderator. While new members are invited and encouraged to post they are asked to please do so in a spirit of respect and consideration for the scholarly and helpful contributions of others.Best wishes,Thor SAMVA , "d_bandhari" <d_bandhari@ ...> wrote:>> Give us a break. How can you congratulate David on a successful> prediction when it was made many hours into the election on the very> day. Exit polls had already been posted as well as the many polls for> weeks showing Obama leading the popular vote as well as the important> electoral college states. My own 7 year old successfully predicted the> outcome of the election as well on those terms alone. Should I then> consider that a "astrological prediction" too? Anyway, there is a> 50/50 chance of making the right "prediction" by that point.> > Now, if David had made this prediction 2 months ago I would consider> that a legitimate prediction, but don't say almost halfway into an> second by second news media frenzy who the winner is and consider that> a fulfilled prediction.> > All the Best,> Draupadi> > > > SAMVA , "P R Chandna" <prchandna@> wrote:> >> > Dear Mr. David,> > Congratulations in correctly predicting the event.> > Regards> > P R Chandna> > > > - > > David Hawthorne > > SAMVA > > Wednesday, November 05, 2008 12:15 AM> > RE: Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last thoughts> > > > > > Dear Friends...> > > > Assuming the two birth certificates are correct, the rising signs for> > Senators McCain and Obama are Aquarius and Capricorn, respectively.> > > > The sub period ruler for Senator Obama is an exalted Moon, which is a> > functional benefic.> > > > The sub period ruler for Senator McCain is an exalted Mercury,> which is his> > most malefic planet.> > > > The transit of the Moon will be in Senator Obama's first house> this evening,> > and in Senator McCain's twelfth house.> > > > Saturn, in the first house in Capricorn in the natal chart for Senator> > Obama, shows the potential to lead the masses and the poor and the> needy.> > > > In my opinion, Senator Obama has a very good chance to win the> election.> > > > Best wishes, > > > > David Hawthorne> > Fairfield, Iowa USA> > > > > > > > > > SAMVA [sAMVA ] On> Behalf Of> > cosmologer> > Monday, November 03, 2008 5:00 AM> > SAMVA > > Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last thoughts> > > > Hello ,> > > > The afflicting aspect of 6th lord JUPITER to 8th lord SATURN, which > > is now with a 1° 40' orb, may indeed be interpreted as such that the > > political opposition (Obama) is upsetting groups indicated by Saturn, > > including miners and coal! The affliction of transit Jupiter to natal > > 4th lord VENUS is making the communal harmony more fraught with upset > > and this aspect peaks on November 7. > > > > Now, if Obama loses the election on November 4, groups indicated by > > Saturn, such as those historically receiving unfair treatment, may > > become upset. The upset there would be expected to become more > > intense as the affliction becomes exact on November 21, when also the > > affliction of natal 8th lord SATURN to transit Saturn is becoming > > close. Due to such affliction in the SAMVA USA chart, it is > > considered likely that some violence will take place later in > > November.> > > > Of course, this is just conjecture. There is still too much > > uncertainty regarding the true birth times of Obama and McCain. In > > any event, even if Obama were to win, the aspects are still there in > > the SAMVA USA chart, and their expression would then be expected to > > take another form, such as hinted in my earlier message.> > > > Best wishes,> > > > Thor> > > > PS listmembers are encouraged to include their name or id in the > > posts.> > > > SAMVA , "echong108" <echong108@> wrote:> > >> > > > Moreover, [McCain's] weak but well placed Saturn will also be > > well> > > placed, as will his other FBs.> > > > > > According to analysis of the electoral college maps by political> > > pundits, McCain's most realistic way to win the election is to pull> > > off an upset victory in Pennsylvania. Polls seem to show the race> > > tightening there. Also, in the last day or so, the McCain campaign > > is> > > focusing on some remarks, perhaps taken out of context, that Obama > > has> > > said about the coal industry. Pennsylvania is famous for its large> > > anthracite coal deposits. Also, the McCain campaign seems to be> > > getting some traction by using "Joe the Plumber" to help appeal to > > the> > > masses. He's also recently appeared at a couple of his rallies in > > the> > > neighboring state of Ohio.> > > > > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Saturn the significator for both> > > coal and plumbers? If McCain somehow manages to pull off a win, it> > > could be through his Saturn manifesting through these things.> > >> > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------> > > >

November 6, 2008

tyring to devil's advocate here - is it possible that Obama's chart

is accurate but McCain's chart is not? Can that explain why McCain

lost (and not necessarily why Obama won?).

DB

SAMVA , " SIHA " <vkchoudhry wrote:

>

> Hello dear Mr. Peter,

>

> Well this is a long period for seeing whether the prediction is

right or wrong. But the figure of 30000 is too distant a vision. As

per SAMVA USA chart, which I and most of the members of the group

believe, the period of Saturn sub period would run in the main period

of Venus after the current sub period of Jupiter is over. Saturn is

lord of the eighth house and Venus is placed in the sixth house. The

duration of this sub period is 38 months.

>

> Best wishes.

>

> -

> Peter P

> SAMVA

> Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:07 PM

> Re: Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last

thoughts

>

> Hi,

>

> Does any one have ability to predict what would OBAMA'a

first term look like? Mahendra Sharma predicts that USA stock market

will go to 30000 in next five years. Do you guys see that way???

>

> --- On Thu, 11/6/08, cosmologer <cosmologer wrote:

>

> cosmologer <cosmologer

> Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last

thoughts

> SAMVA

> Thursday, November 6, 2008, 12:03 AM

>

> Hello Draupadi,

>

> It is possible the prediction was made earlier but shared

on SAMVA only recently.

>

> In any event, the focus is now on drawing lessons from

the outcome, including rectifying the chart for Obama.

>

> One additional point on list interaction, with my hat on

as list moderator. While new members are invited and encouraged to

post they are asked to please do so in a spirit of respect and

consideration for the scholarly and helpful contributions of others.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Thor

>

> SAMVA , " d_bandhari "

<d_bandhari@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > Give us a break. How can you congratulate David on a

successful

> > prediction when it was made many hours into the

election on the very

> > day. Exit polls had already been posted as well as the

many polls for

> > weeks showing Obama leading the popular vote as well as

the important

> > electoral college states. My own 7 year old

successfully predicted the

> > outcome of the election as well on those terms alone.

Should I then

> > consider that a " astrological prediction " too? Anyway,

there is a

> > 50/50 chance of making the right " prediction " by that

point.

> >

> > Now, if David had made this prediction 2 months ago I

would consider

> > that a legitimate prediction, but don't say almost

halfway into an

> > second by second news media frenzy who the winner is

and consider that

> > a fulfilled prediction.

> >

> > All the Best,

> > Draupadi

> >

> > SAMVA , " P R Chandna "

<prchandna@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Mr. David,

> > > Congratulations in correctly predicting the event.

> > > Regards

> > > P R Chandna

> > >

> > > -

> > > David Hawthorne

> > > SAMVA

> > > Wednesday, November 05, 2008 12:15 AM

> > > RE: Re: Barack Obama or John McCain:

last thoughts

> > >

> > > Dear Friends...

> > >

> > > Assuming the two birth certificates are correct, the

rising signs for

> > > Senators McCain and Obama are Aquarius and Capricorn,

respectively.

> > >

> > > The sub period ruler for Senator Obama is an exalted

Moon, which is a

> > > functional benefic.

> > >

> > > The sub period ruler for Senator McCain is an exalted

Mercury,

> > which is his

> > > most malefic planet.

> > >

> > > The transit of the Moon will be in Senator Obama's

first house

> > this evening,

> > > and in Senator McCain's twelfth house.

> > >

> > > Saturn, in the first house in Capricorn in the natal

chart for Senator

> > > Obama, shows the potential to lead the masses and the

poor and the

> > needy.

> > >

> > > In my opinion, Senator Obama has a very good chance

to win the

> > election.

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > >

> > > David Hawthorne

> > > Fairfield, Iowa USA

> > >

> > > SAMVA

[sAMVA ] On

> > Behalf Of

> > > cosmologer

> > > Monday, November 03, 2008 5:00 AM

> > > SAMVA

> > > Re: Barack Obama or John McCain:

last thoughts

> > >

> > > Hello ,

> > >

> > > The afflicting aspect of 6th lord JUPITER to 8th lord

SATURN, which

> > > is now with a 1° 40' orb, may indeed be interpreted

as such that the

> > > political opposition (Obama) is upsetting groups

indicated by Saturn,

> > > including miners and coal! The affliction of transit

Jupiter to natal

> > > 4th lord VENUS is making the communal harmony more

fraught with upset

> > > and this aspect peaks on November 7.

> > >

> > > Now, if Obama loses the election on November 4,

groups indicated by

> > > Saturn, such as those historically receiving unfair

treatment, may

> > > become upset. The upset there would be expected to

become more

> > > intense as the affliction becomes exact on November

21, when also the

> > > affliction of natal 8th lord SATURN to transit Saturn

is becoming

> > > close. Due to such affliction in the SAMVA USA chart,

it is

> > > considered likely that some violence will take place

later in

> > > November.

> > >

> > > Of course, this is just conjecture. There is still

too much

> > > uncertainty regarding the true birth times of Obama

and McCain. In

> > > any event, even if Obama were to win, the aspects are

still there in

> > > the SAMVA USA chart, and their expression would then

be expected to

> > > take another form, such as hinted in my earlier

message.

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > >

> > > Thor

> > >

> > > PS listmembers are encouraged to include their name

or id in the

> > > posts.

> > >

> > > SAMVA , " echong108 "

<echong108@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Moreover, [McCain's] weak but well placed Saturn

will also be

> > > well

> > > > placed, as will his other FBs.

> > > >

> > > > According to analysis of the electoral college maps

by political

> > > > pundits, McCain's most realistic way to win the

election is to pull

> > > > off an upset victory in Pennsylvania. Polls seem to

show the race

> > > > tightening there. Also, in the last day or so, the

McCain campaign

> > > is

> > > > focusing on some remarks, perhaps taken out of

context, that Obama

> > > has

> > > > said about the coal industry. Pennsylvania is

famous for its large

> > > > anthracite coal deposits. Also, the McCain campaign

seems to be

> > > > getting some traction by using " Joe the Plumber " to

help appeal to

> > > the

> > > > masses. He's also recently appeared at a couple of

his rallies in

> > > the

> > > > neighboring state of Ohio.

> > > >

> > > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Saturn the

significator for both

> > > > coal and plumbers? If McCain somehow manages to

pull off a win, it

> > > > could be through his Saturn manifesting through

these things.

> > > >

> > >

> > > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> > >

November 6, 2008

Hello DB,

According to Obama could not have won the election with a

Capricorn lagna.This is made clear in earlier messages.

Best wishes,

Thor

SAMVA , " devibhakt " <devibhakt wrote:

>

> tyring to devil's advocate here - is it possible that Obama's chart

> is accurate but McCain's chart is not? Can that explain why McCain

> lost (and not necessarily why Obama won?).

>

> DB

>

> SAMVA , " SIHA " <vkchoudhry@> wrote:

> >

> > Hello dear Mr. Peter,

> >

> > Well this is a long period for seeing whether the prediction is

> right or wrong. But the figure of 30000 is too distant a vision. As

> per SAMVA USA chart, which I and most of the members of the group

> believe, the period of Saturn sub period would run in the main period

> of Venus after the current sub period of Jupiter is over. Saturn is

> lord of the eighth house and Venus is placed in the sixth house. The

> duration of this sub period is 38 months.

> >

> > Best wishes.

> >

> > -

> > Peter P

> > SAMVA

> > Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:07 PM

> > Re: Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last

> thoughts

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > Does any one have ability to predict what would OBAMA'a

> first term look like? Mahendra Sharma predicts that USA stock market

> will go to 30000 in next five years. Do you guys see that way???

> >

> > --- On Thu, 11/6/08, cosmologer <cosmologer@> wrote:

> >

> > cosmologer <cosmologer@>

> > Re: Barack Obama or John McCain: last

> thoughts

> > SAMVA

> > Thursday, November 6, 2008, 12:03 AM

> >

> > Hello Draupadi,

> >

> > It is possible the prediction was made earlier but shared

> on SAMVA only recently.

> >

> > In any event, the focus is now on drawing lessons from

> the outcome, including rectifying the chart for Obama.

> >

> > One additional point on list interaction, with my hat on

> as list moderator. While new members are invited and encouraged to

> post they are asked to please do so in a spirit of respect and

> consideration for the scholarly and helpful contributions of others.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > Thor

> >

> > SAMVA , " d_bandhari "

> <d_bandhari@ ...> wrote:

> > >

> > > Give us a break. How can you congratulate David on a

> successful

> > > prediction when it was made many hours into the

> election on the very

> > > day. Exit polls had already been posted as well as the

> many polls for

> > > weeks showing Obama leading the popular vote as well as

> the important

> > > electoral college states. My own 7 year old

> successfully predicted the

> > > outcome of the election as well on those terms alone.

> Should I then

> > > consider that a " astrological prediction " too? Anyway,

> there is a

> > > 50/50 chance of making the right " prediction " by that

> point.

> > >

> > > Now, if David had made this prediction 2 months ago I

> would consider

> > > that a legitimate prediction, but don't say almost

> halfway into an

> > > second by second news media frenzy who the winner is

> and consider that

> > > a fulfilled prediction.

> > >

> > > All the Best,

> > > Draupadi

> > >

> > > SAMVA , " P R Chandna "

> <prchandna@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Mr. David,

> > > > Congratulations in correctly predicting the event.

> > > > Regards

> > > > P R Chandna

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > David Hawthorne

> > > > SAMVA

> > > > Wednesday, November 05, 2008 12:15 AM

> > > > RE: Re: Barack Obama or John McCain:

> last thoughts

> > > >

> > > > Dear Friends...

> > > >

> > > > Assuming the two birth certificates are correct, the

> rising signs for

> > > > Senators McCain and Obama are Aquarius and Capricorn,

> respectively.

> > > >

> > > > The sub period ruler for Senator Obama is an exalted

> Moon, which is a

> > > > functional benefic.

> > > >

> > > > The sub period ruler for Senator McCain is an exalted

> Mercury,

> > > which is his

> > > > most malefic planet.

> > > >

> > > > The transit of the Moon will be in Senator Obama's

> first house

> > > this evening,

> > > > and in Senator McCain's twelfth house.

> > > >

> > > > Saturn, in the first house in Capricorn in the natal

> chart for Senator

> > > > Obama, shows the potential to lead the masses and the

> poor and the

> > > needy.

> > > >

> > > > In my opinion, Senator Obama has a very good chance

> to win the

> > > election.

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > >

> > > > David Hawthorne

> > > > Fairfield, Iowa USA

> > > >

> > > > SAMVA

> [sAMVA ] On

> > > Behalf Of

> > > > cosmologer

> > > > Monday, November 03, 2008 5:00 AM

> > > > SAMVA

> > > > Re: Barack Obama or John McCain:

> last thoughts

> > > >

> > > > Hello ,

> > > >

> > > > The afflicting aspect of 6th lord JUPITER to 8th lord

> SATURN, which

> > > > is now with a 1° 40' orb, may indeed be interpreted

> as such that the

> > > > political opposition (Obama) is upsetting groups

> indicated by Saturn,

> > > > including miners and coal! The affliction of transit

> Jupiter to natal

> > > > 4th lord VENUS is making the communal harmony more

> fraught with upset

> > > > and this aspect peaks on November 7.

> > > >

> > > > Now, if Obama loses the election on November 4,

> groups indicated by

> > > > Saturn, such as those historically receiving unfair

> treatment, may

> > > > become upset. The upset there would be expected to

> become more

> > > > intense as the affliction becomes exact on November

> 21, when also the

> > > > affliction of natal 8th lord SATURN to transit Saturn

> is becoming

> > > > close. Due to such affliction in the SAMVA USA chart,

> it is

> > > > considered likely that some violence will take place

> later in

> > > > November.

> > > >

> > > > Of course, this is just conjecture. There is still

> too much

> > > > uncertainty regarding the true birth times of Obama

> and McCain. In

> > > > any event, even if Obama were to win, the aspects are

> still there in

> > > > the SAMVA USA chart, and their expression would then

> be expected to

> > > > take another form, such as hinted in my earlier

> message.

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > >

> > > > Thor

> > > >

> > > > PS listmembers are encouraged to include their name

> or id in the

> > > > posts.

> > > >

> > > > SAMVA , " echong108 "

> <echong108@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Moreover, [McCain's] weak but well placed Saturn

> will also be

> > > > well

> > > > > placed, as will his other FBs.

> > > > >

> > > > > According to analysis of the electoral college maps

> by political

> > > > > pundits, McCain's most realistic way to win the

> election is to pull

> > > > > off an upset victory in Pennsylvania. Polls seem to

> show the race

> > > > > tightening there. Also, in the last day or so, the

> McCain campaign

> > > > is

> > > > > focusing on some remarks, perhaps taken out of

> context, that Obama

> > > > has

> > > > > said about the coal industry. Pennsylvania is

> famous for its large

> > > > > anthracite coal deposits. Also, the McCain campaign

> seems to be

> > > > > getting some traction by using " Joe the Plumber " to

> help appeal to

> > > > the

> > > > > masses. He's also recently appeared at a couple of

> his rallies in

> > > > the

> > > > > neighboring state of Ohio.

> > > > >

> > > > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Saturn the

> significator for both

> > > > > coal and plumbers? If McCain somehow manages to

> pull off a win, it

> > > > > could be through his Saturn manifesting through

> these things.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------

> > > >

November 6, 2008

Dear Draupadi:

Your point is well taken...and indeed, if it was the first time I had

predicted this, it would have come at a late hour.

However, that was not my first attempt; but rather, it was a reinforcement

of earlier predictions.

For example, this is what I wrote in my weekly column on October 22nd:

”Note: Assuming the birth certificates are accurate, Senators Barack Obama

and John McCain are Capricorn and Aquarius rising signs, respectively. Both

have transit afflictions in their charts between now and on the day of the

election, so expect the unexpected. The sub period rulers, however, seem to

give the edge to Senator Obama. "

The problem all along has been with trying to obtain the proper birth times.

Several sets of birth times have been offered throughout this campaign by

both candidates and different newsgroups, so this has made the task more

difficult than in cases where the birth time is verified and easily

available.

Either way, welcome to the SAMVA newsgroup and I hope you will join us with

the study of Systems' Approach and its application in Vedic astrology.

Best wishes,

David Hawthorne

Fairfield, Iowa USA

SAMVA [sAMVA ] On Behalf Of

d_bandhari

Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:14 PM