Challenge: Gender

June 5, 2008

Vic,

the answer is v simple most birth data r approx, in cases when u know the

family and predict it is possible to say for sure on sex but in unknown

cases it is difficult, and after know the sex and a few life events we do

rectify birth time in quite a few cases

if u r familiar with vargas u will know how a slight shift in birth time can

change them so it is in case of sex too

so like ur father saud it is TOO EZ2b wrong

Best wishes

On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 7:48 AM, Vic D <vicdicara wrote:

> Dear All,

>

> Why can't we read the gender from a birth chart??? It seems so simple,

> yet I've heard of no way that you can look at a chart and say whether

> the native is male or female. You can tell the size of their navel,

> but not their gender??? Why is that?

>

> My dad says it's because " its too easy to be wrong " .

>

> What do you think? This is troubling to me.

>

> Yours,

> Vic

>

June 5, 2008

Prashant,

I don't understand. You are saying that Birth Data is approximate,

therefore it's difficult to know the gender. But if we can't know

something as basic as gender with our birth data, how can the same

approximate birth data tell us something as specific as blood type, or

the way a person's path towards moksha will operate?

My father's angle on " it's too easy to be wrong " is this: " Astrology

is not accurate, but you can fudge it when you talk about things that

are not concrete. Gender is very concrete, you are either clearly

right or clearly wrong. Therefore astrology does not attempt to answer

what the gender of the native is - because then it would reveal itself

as inaccurate. "

How do you defend against this? Please explain further.

Thanks,

Vic

On Jun 4, 2008, at 11:07 PM, astro desk wrote:

> Vic,

> the answer is v simple most birth data r approx, in cases when u

> know the

> family and predict it is possible to say for sure on sex but in

> unknown

> cases it is difficult, and after know the sex and a few life events

> we do

> rectify birth time in quite a few cases

> if u r familiar with vargas u will know how a slight shift in birth

> time can

> change them so it is in case of sex too

>

> so like ur father saud it is TOO EZ2b wrong

>

> Best wishes

>

> On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 7:48 AM, Vic D <vicdicara wrote:

>

>> Dear All,

>>

>> Why can't we read the gender from a birth chart??? It seems so

>> simple,

>> yet I've heard of no way that you can look at a chart and say whether

>> the native is male or female. You can tell the size of their navel,

>> but not their gender??? Why is that?

>>

>> My dad says it's because " its too easy to be wrong " .

>>

>> What do you think? This is troubling to me.

>>

>> Yours,

>> Vic

>>

>

June 5, 2008

Vic

All i meant is any family astrloger who knows their pattern can say it for

sure even if there is an error he can know and do the needful

in unknown cases it is hard I did not say not possible, as birth process is

itself a challanging one and it is reported time by a nurse who is anyway

busy with the job than watch the birth time on her writes watch or clock

y/n?

and who ssaid u can predict blood group it is absurd sure not possible to

say one can do it

about Moksha etc we can like anyother events duing our life some one or

other will fine tune ur birth time from there all will be on track

pl take a look at birth data posted in groups for example u will know it is

approx

can anyone be born on clock of the hr or half hr? say 5.30 pm or 7 am etc,

it is possible to be born like that not so many as posted around

astrology is not approximate it is a science intself combines many fields of

science and has its own rules too, u can judge a subject only when u know

its rules

it is like asking a doctor to study star rays in light years from each they

can see to the earth or metalergist to talk of physical or atomic science

each has its own rules basics may be same up to a point

Best wishes

prashant kumar

On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Vic D <vicdicara wrote:

> Prashant,

>

> I don't understand. You are saying that Birth Data is approximate,

> therefore it's difficult to know the gender. But if we can't know

> something as basic as gender with our birth data, how can the same

> approximate birth data tell us something as specific as blood type, or

> the way a person's path towards moksha will operate?

>

> My father's angle on " it's too easy to be wrong " is this: " Astrology

> is not accurate, but you can fudge it when you talk about things that

> are not concrete. Gender is very concrete, you are either clearly

> right or clearly wrong. Therefore astrology does not attempt to answer

> what the gender of the native is - because then it would reveal itself

> as inaccurate. "

>

> How do you defend against this? Please explain further.

>

> Thanks,

> Vic

>

> On Jun 4, 2008, at 11:07 PM, astro desk wrote:

>

> > Vic,

> > the answer is v simple most birth data r approx, in cases when u

> > know the

> > family and predict it is possible to say for sure on sex but in

> > unknown

> > cases it is difficult, and after know the sex and a few life events

> > we do

> > rectify birth time in quite a few cases

> > if u r familiar with vargas u will know how a slight shift in birth

> > time can

> > change them so it is in case of sex too

> >

> > so like ur father saud it is TOO EZ2b wrong

> >

> > Best wishes

> >

> > On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 7:48 AM, Vic D

<vicdicara<vicdicara%40gmail.com>>

> wrote:

> >

> >> Dear All,

> >>

> >> Why can't we read the gender from a birth chart??? It seems so

> >> simple,

> >> yet I've heard of no way that you can look at a chart and say whether

> >> the native is male or female. You can tell the size of their navel,

> >> but not their gender??? Why is that?

> >>

> >> My dad says it's because " its too easy to be wrong " .

> >>

> >> What do you think? This is troubling to me.

> >>

> >> Yours,

> >> Vic

> >>

> >

June 5, 2008

Prashantji,

> All i meant is any family astrloger who knows their pattern can say

> it for

> sure even if there is an error he can know and do the needful

Could you tell me pattern so I could start experimenting with it?

> and who ssaid u can predict blood group it is absurd sure not

> possible to

> say one can do it

There is a member on this forum who is working on it. Check the

message archive. It is recent. Off the top of my head i think it is

Krishna. Maybe I'm mistaken. But anyway, I personally know how to

predict the size of a person's belly button, but I have no idea how to

tell which gender they are, and I find that to be exceedingly odd. I

would really like to know if there are any formulas given regarding

reading gender from a chart.

- Vic

June 5, 2008

vic

in gen the rules

are male sign, Lagna, vargas, its lord in sych vargas more than female

but u can see beautiful men instead of handsome men at times a s they may

have a strong femine sign Lagna, vargas too Opp for other female where u may

find women like tom boys

the pattern can be

Guru, sani , Kuja the longer duration planets will have a pattern

say in fixed sign. watery signs or earthly sign and with chandra and Kuja

association, or

or a particular house or sign a planet is in

in my family 3/8 have Kuja in Kanya

3 have Guru in Watery sign

mine opp to Kataka-watery

in my 1st B-I-LAW's family almost all have Lagna rahu, and lagna is a fixed

sign

in my 2nd BIL's family all have Lagna in airy signs with guru aspect

in my 2nd BIls case

I had predicted he will have a daughter born on Aug 9/10 96 in Mithuna rasi,

lagna and arudra star even before her pregnancy was confirmed here felt it

can happen in the airy sign but Guru will be in 7th to it.

it was confirmed a few days later.

even as lates as Aug 8 96 when It was nearing term the doc said it is not

ready to deliver and will post pone by 2 weeks but next day nite she was

admitted and as expected the girl was born in Aridra just 3 min into it

quite often

the eldest born will share the father's Lagna or rasi or its trines or 7th

to it.

the last one of the mother's like wise

this is true for couple with a stable marriage.

but if they r changing partners in between then the picture needs similar

adjustments.

My grand fatter, father, my elder brother r Kataka lagna born

my lagna lord in kataka

Jawaharlal Nehru India's 1st PM his daughter, were Kataka lagna her 2nd son

was Makara lagna the 7th to it

study a few family cases u will see a pattern emerging. and use it to

predict future kids will work, I have done this so far in many cases -this

is the reason I give full credit to our rishes than our prowess as v r

merely folowing their rules with due adaptation to our times, culture.

Best wishes

On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 10:04 PM, Vic D <vicdicara wrote:

> Prashantji,

>

> > All i meant is any family astrloger who knows their pattern can say

> > it for

> > sure even if there is an error he can know and do the needful

>

> Could you tell me pattern so I could start experimenting with it?

>

> > and who ssaid u can predict blood group it is absurd sure not

> > possible to

> > say one can do it

>

> There is a member on this forum who is working on it. Check the

> message archive. It is recent. Off the top of my head i think it is

> Krishna. Maybe I'm mistaken. But anyway, I personally know how to

> predict the size of a person's belly button, but I have no idea how to

> tell which gender they are, and I find that to be exceedingly odd. I

> would really like to know if there are any formulas given regarding

> reading gender from a chart.

>

> - Vic

>

June 5, 2008

Prashant,

> in gen the rules are male sign, Lagna, vargas, its lord in sych

> vargas more than female

Are you saying: " when lagna is male and lord is male in rasi and

vargas you definately have a male " ?

Lets consider me. Here's my data:

~~~ Rasi ~~~

Lagna: 10 (female)

Lagnesh: 1 (male)

~~~ halves (hora) ~~~

Lagna: 10 (female)

Lagnesh: 1 (male)

~~~ 3rds (drekkan) ~~~~

Lagna: 10 (female)

Lagnesh: 9 (male)

~~~ 5ths ~~~~

Lagna: 2 (female)

Lagnesh: 7 (male)

~~~ 7ths ~~~~

Lagna: 4 (female)

Lagnesh: 10 (female)

~~~ 9ths ~~~

Lagna: 10 (female)

Lagnesh: 9 (male)

~~~ 12ths ~~~

Lagna: 10 (female)

Lagnesh: 12 (female)

What do you make of that!? I included the moon for curiosity. I

included the sun because i conncet it with the visible self / external

body. But let's leave those two by the wayside... The overall reading

of 7 divisionals is (notation is " M/F " so " 3/4 " means " Three male,

four female " )

Lagna: 0/7

Lagnesh: 5/2

Lagna says i am female 100% of the time, lagnes says I am male 72% of

the time. Looks like i should either be a female, or a really good

looking and feminine man. (nudge nudge, hahaha). BTW surya was 100%

female, and chandra was 72% female.

I happen to know with assurance that I'm a male (though it's rare that

I didn't wish I wasn't).

In fact, that DOES show through in the data.

Now let's go back and address my father's question - " WHY CAN'T YOU

TELL IF THE PERSON IS MALE OR FEMALE "

Here is the answer I have developed with your help, Prashant. " Dad.

You CAN tell. But the answer you will get from Vedic Astrology will

reflect the deeper truth that Gender is not as simple as genitalia.

There are spectrums of genders from very masculine inside and out, to

very feminine outside and in - and everything in between - and THAT's

what astrology will tell you "

Here is what his reply will be: " THAT'S NICE. I APPRECIATE THAT. BUT

STILL, YOU CAN DO MEDICAL DIAGNOSIS WITH ASTROLOGY, CAN YOU TELL ME

WHAT THE GENITALIA IS? "

And honestly, I don't know how, and don't know why I shouldn't be able

to.

Yours,

Vic

On Jun 5, 2008, at 10:20 AM, astro desk wrote:

> vic

>

> in gen the rules

> are male sign, Lagna, vargas, its lord in sych vargas more than female

>

> but u can see beautiful men instead of handsome men at times a s

> they may

> have a strong femine sign Lagna, vargas too Opp for other female

> where u may

> find women like tom boys

>

> the pattern can be

>

> Guru, sani , Kuja the longer duration planets will have a pattern

> say in fixed sign. watery signs or earthly sign and with chandra and

> Kuja

> association, or

>

> or a particular house or sign a planet is in

>

> in my family 3/8 have Kuja in Kanya

> 3 have Guru in Watery sign

> mine opp to Kataka-watery

>

> in my 1st B-I-LAW's family almost all have Lagna rahu, and lagna is

> a fixed

> sign

> in my 2nd BIL's family all have Lagna in airy signs with guru aspect

>

> in my 2nd BIls case

>

> I had predicted he will have a daughter born on Aug 9/10 96 in

> Mithuna rasi,

> lagna and arudra star even before her pregnancy was confirmed here

> felt it

> can happen in the airy sign but Guru will be in 7th to it.

>

> it was confirmed a few days later.

>

> even as lates as Aug 8 96 when It was nearing term the doc said it

> is not

> ready to deliver and will post pone by 2 weeks but next day nite she

> was

> admitted and as expected the girl was born in Aridra just 3 min into

> it

>

> quite often

> the eldest born will share the father's Lagna or rasi or its trines

> or 7th

> to it.

> the last one of the mother's like wise

>

> this is true for couple with a stable marriage.

> but if they r changing partners in between then the picture needs

> similar

> adjustments.

>

> My grand fatter, father, my elder brother r Kataka lagna born

> my lagna lord in kataka

>

> Jawaharlal Nehru India's 1st PM his daughter, were Kataka lagna her

> 2nd son

> was Makara lagna the 7th to it

>

> study a few family cases u will see a pattern emerging. and use it to

> predict future kids will work, I have done this so far in many cases

> -this

> is the reason I give full credit to our rishes than our prowess as v r

> merely folowing their rules with due adaptation to our times, culture.

>

> Best wishes

>

> On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 10:04 PM, Vic D <vicdicara wrote:

>

>> Prashantji,

>>

>>> All i meant is any family astrloger who knows their pattern can say

>>> it for

>>> sure even if there is an error he can know and do the needful

>>

>> Could you tell me pattern so I could start experimenting with it?

>>

>>> and who ssaid u can predict blood group it is absurd sure not

>>> possible to

>>> say one can do it

>>

>> There is a member on this forum who is working on it. Check the

>> message archive. It is recent. Off the top of my head i think it is

>> Krishna. Maybe I'm mistaken. But anyway, I personally know how to

>> predict the size of a person's belly button, but I have no idea how

>> to

>> tell which gender they are, and I find that to be exceedingly odd. I

>> would really like to know if there are any formulas given regarding

>> reading gender from a chart.

>>

>> - Vic

>>

>

June 5, 2008

Hi Prashanthji,

You wrote:

//quite often the eldest born will share the father's Lagna or rasi or

its trines or 7th to it ; the last one of the mother's like wise.this

is true for couple with a stable marriage.//

In my family this is very much true. My Father and eldest brother

share the same rasi and nakshathra (tula, swati). I am the youngest in

my family and 7th from my mother's lagna is my lagna sign. Her's is

Aquarius and mine is Leo.

Regards,

Manasa

June 5, 2008

Vic

I did say same what u called spectrusm of male or female....

and read again I said `in gen not as a rule' on male female as u were asking

for some clues not cast in iron ones, which I said is not possible and came

close to what u said on spectrurums

now as u KNOW u r male u need to fine tune ur vargas to make it dominant

male if u have more masculine features and less shades of female try this

and see if it improvues any past , present events

and it is possible more when data and source of data is good else we have to

work our way is a point to be remembered

u did not coment on the pattenrs I had mentioned hope u r working on it.

[rashant kumar

On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 11:35 PM, Vic D <vicdicara wrote:

> Prashant,

>

> > in gen the rules are male sign, Lagna, vargas, its lord in sych

> > vargas more than female

>

> Are you saying: " when lagna is male and lord is male in rasi and

> vargas you definately have a male " ?

>

> Lets consider me. Here's my data:

>

> ~~~ Rasi ~~~

> Lagna: 10 (female)

> Lagnesh: 1 (male)

>

> ~~~ halves (hora) ~~~

> Lagna: 10 (female)

> Lagnesh: 1 (male)

>

> ~~~ 3rds (drekkan) ~~~~

> Lagna: 10 (female)

> Lagnesh: 9 (male)

>

> ~~~ 5ths ~~~~

> Lagna: 2 (female)

> Lagnesh: 7 (male)

>

> ~~~ 7ths ~~~~

> Lagna: 4 (female)

> Lagnesh: 10 (female)

>

> ~~~ 9ths ~~~

> Lagna: 10 (female)

> Lagnesh: 9 (male)

>

> ~~~ 12ths ~~~

> Lagna: 10 (female)

> Lagnesh: 12 (female)

>

> What do you make of that!? I included the moon for curiosity. I

> included the sun because i conncet it with the visible self / external

> body. But let's leave those two by the wayside... The overall reading

> of 7 divisionals is (notation is " M/F " so " 3/4 " means " Three male,

> four female " )

>

> Lagna: 0/7

> Lagnesh: 5/2

>

> Lagna says i am female 100% of the time, lagnes says I am male 72% of

> the time. Looks like i should either be a female, or a really good

> looking and feminine man. (nudge nudge, hahaha). BTW surya was 100%

> female, and chandra was 72% female.

>

> I happen to know with assurance that I'm a male (though it's rare that

> I didn't wish I wasn't).

>

> In fact, that DOES show through in the data.

>

> Now let's go back and address my father's question - " WHY CAN'T YOU

> TELL IF THE PERSON IS MALE OR FEMALE "

>

> Here is the answer I have developed with your help, Prashant. " Dad.

> You CAN tell. But the answer you will get from Vedic Astrology will

> reflect the deeper truth that Gender is not as simple as genitalia.

> There are spectrums of genders from very masculine inside and out, to

> very feminine outside and in - and everything in between - and THAT's

> what astrology will tell you "

>

> Here is what his reply will be: " THAT'S NICE. I APPRECIATE THAT. BUT

> STILL, YOU CAN DO MEDICAL DIAGNOSIS WITH ASTROLOGY, CAN YOU TELL ME

> WHAT THE GENITALIA IS? "

>

> And honestly, I don't know how, and don't know why I shouldn't be able

> to.

>

> Yours,

> Vic

>

> On Jun 5, 2008, at 10:20 AM, astro desk wrote:

>

> > vic

> >

> > in gen the rules

> > are male sign, Lagna, vargas, its lord in sych vargas more than female

> >

> > but u can see beautiful men instead of handsome men at times a s

> > they may

> > have a strong femine sign Lagna, vargas too Opp for other female

> > where u may

> > find women like tom boys

> >

> > the pattern can be

> >

> > Guru, sani , Kuja the longer duration planets will have a pattern

> > say in fixed sign. watery signs or earthly sign and with chandra and

> > Kuja

> > association, or

> >

> > or a particular house or sign a planet is in

> >

> > in my family 3/8 have Kuja in Kanya

> > 3 have Guru in Watery sign

> > mine opp to Kataka-watery

> >

> > in my 1st B-I-LAW's family almost all have Lagna rahu, and lagna is

> > a fixed

> > sign

> > in my 2nd BIL's family all have Lagna in airy signs with guru aspect

> >

> > in my 2nd BIls case

> >

> > I had predicted he will have a daughter born on Aug 9/10 96 in

> > Mithuna rasi,

> > lagna and arudra star even before her pregnancy was confirmed here

> > felt it

> > can happen in the airy sign but Guru will be in 7th to it.

> >

> > it was confirmed a few days later.

> >

> > even as lates as Aug 8 96 when It was nearing term the doc said it

> > is not

> > ready to deliver and will post pone by 2 weeks but next day nite she

> > was

> > admitted and as expected the girl was born in Aridra just 3 min into

> > it

> >

> > quite often

> > the eldest born will share the father's Lagna or rasi or its trines

> > or 7th

> > to it.

> > the last one of the mother's like wise

> >

> > this is true for couple with a stable marriage.

> > but if they r changing partners in between then the picture needs

> > similar

> > adjustments.

> >

> > My grand fatter, father, my elder brother r Kataka lagna born

> > my lagna lord in kataka

> >

> > Jawaharlal Nehru India's 1st PM his daughter, were Kataka lagna her

> > 2nd son

> > was Makara lagna the 7th to it

> >

> > study a few family cases u will see a pattern emerging. and use it to

> > predict future kids will work, I have done this so far in many cases

> > -this

> > is the reason I give full credit to our rishes than our prowess as v r

> > merely folowing their rules with due adaptation to our times, culture.

> >

> > Best wishes

> >

> > On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 10:04 PM, Vic D

<vicdicara<vicdicara%40gmail.com>>

> wrote:

> >

> >> Prashantji,

> >>

> >>> All i meant is any family astrloger who knows their pattern can say

> >>> it for

> >>> sure even if there is an error he can know and do the needful

> >>

> >> Could you tell me pattern so I could start experimenting with it?

> >>

> >>> and who ssaid u can predict blood group it is absurd sure not

> >>> possible to

> >>> say one can do it

> >>

> >> There is a member on this forum who is working on it. Check the

> >> message archive. It is recent. Off the top of my head i think it is

> >> Krishna. Maybe I'm mistaken. But anyway, I personally know how to

> >> predict the size of a person's belly button, but I have no idea how

> >> to

> >> tell which gender they are, and I find that to be exceedingly odd. I

> >> would really like to know if there are any formulas given regarding

> >> reading gender from a chart.

> >>

> >> - Vic

> >>

> >

June 6, 2008

Manasa,

thanks for validating even a gen statement, as the rules r there *exemptions

are thee too*, we need to know both that is why I used i`n Gen' but it will

work in many some it won't there u may have more spectrums of whichver sex

is dominat in features' though sex may be opposite to features

did rajiv gandhi look more male, or rahul, sanjay NO WAY THEY LOOKED MORE

FEMALE THAN MALE.

no strong masculine features but slender, delicate, beautiful features they

had.

best wishes

prashant

On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 12:45 AM, m2sangeeth <m2sangeeth wrote:

>

> Hi Prashanthji,

>

> You wrote:

>

> //quite often the eldest born will share the father's Lagna or rasi or

> its trines or 7th to it ; the last one of the mother's like wise.this

> is true for couple with a stable marriage.//

>

> In my family this is very much true. My Father and eldest brother

> share the same rasi and nakshathra (tula, swati). I am the youngest in

> my family and 7th from my mother's lagna is my lagna sign. Her's is

> Aquarius and mine is Leo.

>

> Regards,

> Manasa

>

June 6, 2008

Dear Friends,

How many reference points to be considered?

1. Lagna - One sign

2. Rasi/Where Moon Placed - another sign it is quite possible

3. Their trines - at least another six signs

4. Their seventh - at least another two signs

Out of 12 signs - 10 signs can be covered.. A person to be the eldest

has 10 chances of having his lagna of the above mentioned ........ am

I understading your point/parameter or missing something?

Regards, C.S. Ravindramani.

> You wrote:

>

> //quite often the eldest born will share the father's Lagna or rasi

or

> its trines or 7th to it ; the last one of the mother's like

wise.this

> is true for couple with a stable marriage.//

>

-- In jyotish-vidya , " astro desk "

<astro.prashantkumar wrote:

>

> Manasa,

>

> thanks for validating even a gen statement, as the rules r there

*exemptions

> are thee too*, we need to know both that is why I used i`n Gen' but

it will

> work in many some it won't there u may have more spectrums of

whichver sex

> is dominat in features' though sex may be opposite to features

>

> did rajiv gandhi look more male, or rahul, sanjay NO WAY THEY

LOOKED MORE

> FEMALE THAN MALE.

> no strong masculine features but slender, delicate, beautiful

features they

> had.

>

> best wishes

>

> prashant

> On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 12:45 AM, m2sangeeth <m2sangeeth wrote:

>

> >

> > Hi Prashanthji,

> >

> > You wrote:

> >

> > //quite often the eldest born will share the father's Lagna or

rasi or

> > its trines or 7th to it ; the last one of the mother's like

wise.this

> > is true for couple with a stable marriage.//

> >

> > In my family this is very much true. My Father and eldest brother

> > share the same rasi and nakshathra (tula, swati). I am the

youngest in

> > my family and 7th from my mother's lagna is my lagna sign. Her's

is

> > Aquarius and mine is Leo.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Manasa

>

June 6, 2008

CSR

once u start with this and identify a pattern in a family u will be able to

eliminate a few from the list.

study the major planets in the family esp parents, grand parents add these

two u can sharpen it

to start with u can do what Manasa has said check ur family charts an d then

the pattern this must also be remember when u r trying to test the subject

only u get more confusing answers once u have a real case before hand u will

get some more eliminated by the guidance from almighty too.

if things were so easy , many wud have written a software to predict and

eliminate the human had in interpretations isn't it?

rules, exemptions etc all form part of the scheme and the final word is

Almighty's who will give u a clue or tow depending on the sincerity of the

question before u

Best wishes

On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 10:51 AM, ravindramani <ravindramani

wrote:

> Dear Friends,

>

> How many reference points to be considered?

>

> 1. Lagna - One sign

> 2. Rasi/Where Moon Placed - another sign it is quite possible

> 3. Their trines - at least another six signs

> 4. Their seventh - at least another two signs

>

> Out of 12 signs - 10 signs can be covered.. A person to be the eldest

> has 10 chances of having his lagna of the above mentioned ........ am

> I understading your point/parameter or missing something?

>

> Regards, C.S. Ravindramani.

>

> > You wrote:

> >

> > //quite often the eldest born will share the father's Lagna or rasi

> or

> > its trines or 7th to it ; the last one of the mother's like

> wise.this

> > is true for couple with a stable marriage.//

> >

>

> -- In jyotish-vidya <jyotish-vidya%40>,

> " astro desk "

> <astro.prashantkumar wrote:

> >

> > Manasa,

> >

> > thanks for validating even a gen statement, as the rules r there

> *exemptions

> > are thee too*, we need to know both that is why I used i`n Gen' but

> it will

> > work in many some it won't there u may have more spectrums of

> whichver sex

> > is dominat in features' though sex may be opposite to features

> >

> > did rajiv gandhi look more male, or rahul, sanjay NO WAY THEY

> LOOKED MORE

> > FEMALE THAN MALE.

> > no strong masculine features but slender, delicate, beautiful

> features they

> > had.

> >

> > best wishes

> >

> > prashant

> > On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 12:45 AM, m2sangeeth <m2sangeeth wrote:

> >

> > >

> > > Hi Prashanthji,

> > >

> > > You wrote:

> > >

> > > //quite often the eldest born will share the father's Lagna or

> rasi or

> > > its trines or 7th to it ; the last one of the mother's like

> wise.this

> > > is true for couple with a stable marriage.//

> > >

> > > In my family this is very much true. My Father and eldest brother

> > > share the same rasi and nakshathra (tula, swati). I am the

> youngest in

> > > my family and 7th from my mother's lagna is my lagna sign. Her's

> is

> > > Aquarius and mine is Leo.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Manasa

> >

>

June 6, 2008

Dear Group,

My point is that it is so wide, the parameter is, that eveybody would

be fit in this. Now another issue the major planets added.

Regards, C.S. Ravindramani.

PS: Those interested on the thread, test this simple thumb rule in

their collection of charts, if Jupiter is placed in 11th house, the

native could be the eldest to his or her parents. Alternatively, he

or she could be eldest in his or her sex.

=======================

Dear Friends,

How many reference points to be considered?

1. Lagna - One sign

2. Rasi/Where Moon Placed - another sign it is quite possible

3. Their trines - at least another six signs

4. Their seventh - at least another two signs

Out of 12 signs - 10 signs can be covered.. A person to be the eldest

has 10 chances of having his lagna of the above mentioned ........ am

I understading your point/parameter or missing something?

Regards, C.S. Ravindramani.

June 6, 2008

CSR

U have only decided to see it in parts only the major planets part exists in

the 1st instance only, please read the thread all over again, in my replies

to Vic u will find this.[patterns, major planets, r given]

nothing added now SADLY.

prashant

On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 1:12 PM, ravindramani <ravindramani wrote:

> Dear Group,

>

> My point is that it is so wide, the parameter is, that eveybody would

> be fit in this. Now another issue the major planets added.

>

> Regards, C.S. Ravindramani.

>

> PS: Those interested on the thread, test this simple thumb rule in

> their collection of charts, if Jupiter is placed in 11th house, the

> native could be the eldest to his or her parents. Alternatively, he

> or she could be eldest in his or her sex.

>

> =======================

>

> Dear Friends,

>

> How many reference points to be considered?

>

> 1. Lagna - One sign

> 2. Rasi/Where Moon Placed - another sign it is quite possible

> 3. Their trines - at least another six signs

> 4. Their seventh - at least another two signs

>

> Out of 12 signs - 10 signs can be covered.. A person to be the eldest

> has 10 chances of having his lagna of the above mentioned ........ am

> I understading your point/parameter or missing something?

>

> Regards, C.S. Ravindramani.

>

June 6, 2008

Prashant-ji,

> u did not coment on the pattenrs I had mentioned hope u r working on

> it.

Yes it's not easy to understand. Let's try:

> the pattern can be Guru, sani , Kuja the longer duration planets

> will have a pattern say in fixed sign. watery signs or earthly sign

> and with chandra and Kuja association, or a particular house or sign

> a planet is in.

Your saying something about the outer planets being a particular type

of sign (earth/water/etc, or fixed/moving/dual). Or there will be a

patters associated with Mars and Moon. Or a pattern of a particular

house or a sign.

You are saying to look for this pattern in the charts of the nuclear

family.

So for example, my mother and I are both capricorn. There is a

pattern. Look for other patterns in the moon and outer planets. When I

find prominent patterns between the native and his or her nuclear

family, I will concentrate further on the participants in that pattern.

Is that correct?

Thanks,

Vic

June 6, 2008

Voc

yes u got it right

u say u have ur Mother lagna, does this mean ur parents had a conception

earlier and not materialised into a child- thi s is possible

unless ur Moon sign and fathers is same.

Best wishes

Prashant

On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 4:09 AM, Vic D <vicdicara wrote:

> Prashant-ji,

>

> > u did not coment on the pattenrs I had mentioned hope u r working on

> > it.

>

> Yes it's not easy to understand. Let's try:

>

> > the pattern can be Guru, sani , Kuja the longer duration planets

> > will have a pattern say in fixed sign. watery signs or earthly sign

> > and with chandra and Kuja association, or a particular house or sign

> > a planet is in.

>

> Your saying something about the outer planets being a particular type

> of sign (earth/water/etc, or fixed/moving/dual). Or there will be a

> patters associated with Mars and Moon. Or a pattern of a particular

> house or a sign.

>

> You are saying to look for this pattern in the charts of the nuclear

> family.

>

> So for example, my mother and I are both capricorn. There is a

> pattern. Look for other patterns in the moon and outer planets. When I

> find prominent patterns between the native and his or her nuclear

> family, I will concentrate further on the participants in that pattern.

>

> Is that correct?

>

> Thanks,

> Vic

>

June 7, 2008

Dear Vic and All,

I was taught that gender and race are the two things that cannot be

discerned from horoscope. We must remember that, prior to the modern

(internet) age, an astrologer sitting face-to-face with a querant would

instantly know the gender/race of the person next to him. Today, with so

much internet consulting going on, it behoves the astrologer to enquire

about these fundamentals before proceeding as it does make a difference

how the horoscope is viewed.

The gender of offspring (children) is a different matter and (I believe)

is to be judged from;

* 5th house and its lord.

* 5th karaka and its lord

* Saptamsha (chart of children) in conjunction with dasa period.

For my part I had two male children. Seen with Mars in 5th aspecting 5th

lord Venus who happens (also) to be the dispositor of Jupiter's

dispositor (Moon).

Taking this to its final point we see that Sun (male) is the final

dispositor of the planets associated with children i.e. MO, MA, JU, VE.

PS: Also clear in this chart, of course, is the unborn first child.

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

-

" Vic D " <vicdicara

<jyotish-vidya >

Thursday, June 05, 2008 2:16 PM

Re: Challenge: Gender

Prashant,

I don't understand. You are saying that Birth Data is approximate,

therefore it's difficult to know the gender. But if we can't know

something as basic as gender with our birth data, how can the same

approximate birth data tell us something as specific as blood type, or

the way a person's path towards moksha will operate?

My father's angle on " it's too easy to be wrong " is this: " Astrology

is not accurate, but you can fudge it when you talk about things that

are not concrete. Gender is very concrete, you are either clearly

right or clearly wrong. Therefore astrology does not attempt to answer

what the gender of the native is - because then it would reveal itself

as inaccurate. "

How do you defend against this? Please explain further.

Thanks,

Vic

June 7, 2008

Dear Ravindramani,

//PS: Those interested on the thread, test this simple thumb rule in

their collection of charts, if Jupiter is placed in 11th house, the

native could be the eldest to his or her parents. Alternatively, he

or she could be eldest in his or her sex.//

Yes, I've see this thumb-rule put forward several times on different

groups and have been watching charts with this in mind. Just one example

that comes quickly to mind (that doesn't hold up to this) is my dearly

departed sister, Beverley. She, with lagnesh Jupiter in 7th, was the

eldest of eight daughters. However, what tells me that she was the eldest

is 11th lord's occupancy of 12th along with 11th karaka's dispositor

(Mercury). These things, to my mind, have denied her elder siblings.

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

-

" ravindramani " <ravindramani

<jyotish-vidya >

Friday, June 06, 2008 3:42 PM

Re: Challenge: Gender

Dear Group,

My point is that it is so wide, the parameter is, that eveybody would

be fit in this. Now another issue the major planets added.

Regards, C.S. Ravindramani.

PS: Those interested on the thread, test this simple thumb rule in

their collection of charts, if Jupiter is placed in 11th house, the

native could be the eldest to his or her parents. Alternatively, he

or she could be eldest in his or her sex.

=======================

Dear Friends,

How many reference points to be considered?

1. Lagna - One sign

2. Rasi/Where Moon Placed - another sign it is quite possible

3. Their trines - at least another six signs

4. Their seventh - at least another two signs

Out of 12 signs - 10 signs can be covered.. A person to be the eldest

has 10 chances of having his lagna of the above mentioned ........ am

I understading your point/parameter or missing something?

Regards, C.S. Ravindramani.

June 7, 2008

Dear Vic, Prashant and All,

//You are saying to look for this pattern in the charts of the nuclear

family.

So for example, my mother and I are both capricorn. There is a

pattern. Look for other patterns in the moon and outer planets. When I

find prominent patterns between the native and his or her nuclear

family, I will concentrate further on the participants in that pattern.

Is that correct?//

For those interested, this topic (nuclear) family has been discussed

several times on JV. I include below msg #3973 (2 Sep 2006)

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

jyotish-vidya , " Wendy Vasicek " <jyotish

wrote:

Dear Krishna,

I will take a look at your paper as soon as time allows...

At the moment I'm trying to enjoy my (so-called) weekend away from the

group in order to catch up with other correspondence, website updates and

some much needed rest and recreation...although it rarely seems to work

out that way :-(

Regarding David's lagna, I assure you it is Sagittarius 23°59'21 " . I have

no idea what data you're using for the father as it's not in the data

base? You're welcome to have it though...data follows:

George Gault

Aug 19 1929 (13.25)

Edinburgh, Scotland

Lagna: Libra 16°58'20 "

It's an accepted rule that the genetic link between family members is

seen primarily through (either) Lagna, Sun or Moon. Other (family)

traits, that distinguish one sibling from the other, are further evident

through planetary placements. See following...

FATHER: Libra rising - Sun in Leo - Moon in Capricorn.

MOTHER: Capricorn rising - Sun in Leo - Moon in Libra.

1ST CHILD: Sun in Capricorn ( ties in with both parents).

2ND CHILD: Sun in Libra (ties in with both parents).

PS: David's T.O.B. is 10:01 (AM)

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

_____________________

-

" Krishnamurthy Seetharama " <krishna_1998

<jyotish-vidya >

Saturday, September 02, 2006 4:23 PM

Some more data points

Dear Wendy,

I am yet to hear from you on my research paper. Meanwhile, I was

searching for data of parents and children and it occurred to me

that your family data is available in the database. I have used

the same and the results are presented below. You will undertand

this table if you have read my paper.

F - Father Rasi

M - Mother Rasi

C - Child Rasi

Name: Andrew Rule

Planet F M C Transformation Applicable

Lagna 108 298 348 298+60=358, diff 10 (3rd) ATAI_01

Ravi 74 138 284 proper match not found yet to find

Chandra 340 188 91 188-90=98,diff 7 (Kendra) ATAI_02

Budha 67 164 259 67+180=247,diff 12 (7th) ATAI_01

Sukra 67 141 320 141+180=321,diff 1 (7th) ATAI_01

Kuja 147 43 288 43+240=283,diff 5 (trine) ATAI_02

Guru 239 111 351 239+120=359,diff 8 (5th) ATAI_01

Sani 117 62 300 117+180=297, diff 3 (Kendra)ATAI_02

Rahu 18 111 77 18+60=78,diff 1 (3rd CDA) ATAI_04

Ketu 198 299 257 diff 1 (3rd) ATAI_04

In case of David, I am getting a different Lagna. I tried using

JHora also. Even that gives the same Lagna as below. You seem to

have given a different lagna in the database. I don't where I am

going wrong.

Name: David Rule

Planet F M C Transformation Applicable

Lagna 108 298 276 108+180=288,diff 12 (7th) ATAI_01

Ravi 74 138 192 138+60=198,diff 6 (3rd CDC) ATAI_04

Chandra 340 188 246 188+60=248,diff 2 (3rd CDA) ATAI_04

Budha 67 164 211 164+60=224,diff 13 (3rd CDC)ATAI_04

Sukra 67 141 238 67+180=247,diff 9 (7th) ATAI_01

Kuja 147 43 234 147+90=237,diff 3 (4th) ATAI_01

Guru 239 111 68 239-180=59,diff 9 (7th) ATAI_01

Sani 117 62 317 62+270=332,diff 15 (10th) ATAI_01

Rahu 18 111 43 18+30=48,diff 5 (2nd) ATAI_01

Ketu 198 299 223 diff 5 (2nd) ATAI_01

I did the calculations for Uttara's children also. I am getting

acceptable results for them as well.

Please give your feedback.

Regards,

Krishna

June 7, 2008

Dear Mrs. Wendy,

This thumb rule has been tested for a considerable time on charts

even before the advent of Internet Jyotish Groups. It has a

brilliant logic based on the instructions of the sages in classics.

As you are aware, this kind of rule has its own exceptions as that of

other rules. There are four exceptions to this as far as my

knowledge goes. Thumb rule of such of these are used to know the

correctness of the chart at a glance before going into detail. This

rule works fine. (Between 60 to 65% of cases.) Rest of the 30 to 35

per cent falls under the exceptions. You will kindly appreciate one

should know the exceptions along the rule. It is for the students to

experiment them and to come to a conclusion whether to use or discard

a rule.

See the Jupiter in my chart. Cast the chart of Deepak Sharma (you

might have already done) who has given his life events in detail

recently in the Group. His Jupiter is in 11th house. He is the

eldest to his parents. But in my view, his lagna needs a slight

correction.

I noted your comments regarding your departed sister.

Regards, C.S. Ravindramani.

jyotish-vidya , " Wendy Vasicek "

<jyotishvidya wrote:

>

> Dear Ravindramani,

>

> //PS: Those interested on the thread, test this simple thumb rule

in

> their collection of charts, if Jupiter is placed in 11th house, the

> native could be the eldest to his or her parents. Alternatively, he

> or she could be eldest in his or her sex.//

>

> Yes, I've see this thumb-rule put forward several times on

different

> groups and have been watching charts with this in mind. Just one

example

> that comes quickly to mind (that doesn't hold up to this) is my

dearly

> departed sister, Beverley. She, with lagnesh Jupiter in 7th, was

the

> eldest of eight daughters. However, what tells me that she was the

eldest

> is 11th lord's occupancy of 12th along with 11th karaka's

dispositor

> (Mercury). These things, to my mind, have denied her elder siblings.

>

> Best Wishes,

> Mrs. Wendy

> http://JyotishVidya.com

> ___

June 8, 2008

Dear Ravindramani,

//There are four exceptions to this as far as my knowledge goes.//

When you have the time could you please share with us the four exceptions

to this rule. Also can this rule be found in any classic text? I don't

recall having seen it; but of course I could have and simply forgot, this

is quite possible. I would sincerely like to know the foundation on which

this rule stands and would be grateful if you could point me to some

reference to this.

//Cast the chart of Deepak Sharma (you might have already done) who has

given his life events in detail recently in the Group. His Jupiter is in

11th house. He is the eldest to his parents. But in my view, his lagna

needs a slight correction.//

I have had a quick look at Deepak's chart and, according to the data

given, I get Virgo rising with Jupiter in 10th?? Perhaps other members

could cast the chart to confirm this. BTW perhaps we could take Deepak's

chart up for study. I had noticed his bhukti lord Sun (in dasa of

Jupiter) is conjunct 8th lord Mars (in 8th) along with 10th lord

Mercury...8th = upheaval, calamity, change etc..

PS: Here is another chart (Swami Jnanananda)

http://webpages.charter.net/rayudu/jnanananda.htm

He, with Jupiter in 9th, was the eldest of his family...

My eldest Son (Andrew) has lagnesh Jupiter in lagna...although there's a

bit of a twist here! I wonder if anyone can see it?

In the spirit of impartiality, I do have the chart of a native with

Jupiter in 11th who is the eldest in her family. This however can be seen

(I believe) by judging both the 2nd house of family and the native's

lagna, along with the dasa at birth (KE-SU-MA). See data below.

Female (elder in family)

25 Oct 1969 (07:20AM)

Fremantle, WA

Australia

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

-

" ravindramani " <ravindramani

<jyotish-vidya >

Sunday, June 08, 2008 11:16 AM

Re: Challenge: Gender

Dear Mrs. Wendy,

This thumb rule has been tested for a considerable time on charts

even before the advent of Internet Jyotish Groups. It has a

brilliant logic based on the instructions of the sages in classics.

As you are aware, this kind of rule has its own exceptions as that of

other rules. There are four exceptions to this as far as my

knowledge goes. Thumb rule of such of these are used to know the

correctness of the chart at a glance before going into detail. This

rule works fine. (Between 60 to 65% of cases.) Rest of the 30 to 35

per cent falls under the exceptions. You will kindly appreciate one

should know the exceptions along the rule. It is for the students to

experiment them and to come to a conclusion whether to use or discard

a rule.

See the Jupiter in my chart. Cast the chart of Deepak Sharma (you

might have already done) who has given his life events in detail

recently in the Group. His Jupiter is in 11th house. He is the

eldest to his parents. But in my view, his lagna needs a slight

correction.

I noted your comments regarding your departed sister.

Regards, C.S. Ravindramani.

June 8, 2008

PS: Here is another example of a native born eldest in his family. In his

chart, Jupiter occupies 8th...

Male (eldest in family)

Aug 19 1929 (13.25)

Edinburgh, Scotland

Lagna: Libra 16°58'20 "

_

Dear Ravindramani,

//There are four exceptions to this as far as my knowledge goes.//

When you have the time could you please share with us the four exceptions

to this rule. Also can this rule be found in any classic text? I don't

recall having seen it; but of course I could have and simply forgot, this

is quite possible. I would sincerely like to know the foundation on which

this rule stands and would be grateful if you could point me to some

reference to this.

//Cast the chart of Deepak Sharma (you might have already done) who has

given his life events in detail recently in the Group. His Jupiter is in

11th house. He is the eldest to his parents. But in my view, his lagna

needs a slight correction.//

I have had a quick look at Deepak's chart and, according to the data

given, I get Virgo rising with Jupiter in 10th?? Perhaps other members

could cast the chart to confirm this. BTW perhaps we could take Deepak's

chart up for study. I had noticed his bhukti lord Sun (in dasa of

Jupiter) is conjunct 8th lord Mars (in 8th) along with 10th lord

Mercury...8th = upheaval, calamity, change etc..

PS: Here is another chart (Swami Jnanananda)

http://webpages.charter.net/rayudu/jnanananda.htm

He, with Jupiter in 9th, was the eldest of his family...

My eldest Son (Andrew) has lagnesh Jupiter in lagna...although there's a

bit of a twist here! I wonder if anyone can see it?

In the spirit of impartiality, I do have the chart of a native with

Jupiter in 11th who is the eldest in her family. This however can be seen

(I believe) by judging both the 2nd house of family and the native's

lagna, along with the dasa at birth (KE-SU-MA). See data below.

Female (elder in family)

25 Oct 1969 (07:20AM)

Fremantle, WA

Australia

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

June 8, 2008

Dear Mrs. Wendy,

1. The posted thumb rule by me was in two parts, " if Jupiter is

placed in 11th house, the native could be the eldest to his or her

parents. Alternatively, he or she could be eldest in his or her

sex " . As per one of the messages by the native (Mr. Deepak

Sharma), he is the eldest in his own sex. Hence in this chart, the

rule applies.

>>>>respected Madam wendy and shree VIC and ravindra ramai ji, this

is true i am eldest in my brothers and sister, but i had one elder

sister who was died in her first few months or may be near by one

year age.>>>>>

In the instant chart, there is a clear indication of this also. In D-

3, the 11th lord Saturn is placed in 12th house. The 8th lord Mars

aspects the Saturn and the Jupiter the karaka for elder sibling. ( I

have not ventured to rectify the birth time.)

2. Jupiter represents elders, and elder brothers. 11th house

stands for elder siblings. Hence his placement in 11th house does

not support the elder siblings to the native. (Another example could

be the placement of Jupiter in 5th house does not support progeny. –

i.e. the corporal significations.- This rule even does not work in

all charts and that there are exceptions to this also.) There could

be more valid foundation for the said thumb rule.

(a) Dr. Raman writes in his book, How to Judge Horoscopes, there

is no karaka for elder brother but he takes Mars as the karaka for

elder brother too. For considering Mars as karaka for elder sibling

he refers the readers to Shri Vaidyanatha Deekshidar.

(b) Prof. P.S. Sastri, in his Notes and Illustrations to " Uttara

Kalamrita " translates, in chapter 5, 11th house stands for elder

brother and Jupiter as karaka for elder sibling.

3. When I myself, asked the same question in the initial years

of studying astrology, " where it is written clearly that Jupiter

placed in 11th house does not support the elder siblings " ? The

simple answer given to me was " read Parashara and Uttarakalamrita by

Kalidasa, thoroughly once again " . Certainly, I can't claim I

studied them thoroughly. Hence I put this rule on the charts and

look for the exceptions. There could be many more.

So far as the exceptions to the thumb rule posted by me is concerned,

1. If there is only one child in a family, the child will be

known as a single child. There is no question of elder or younger.

2. If there are two children, one is male and one is female,

again this rule does not apply logically because of the second part.

3. The other two exceptions, I am put on oath by the astrologer

who told me about the exceptions. Kindly bear with me on this count.

Regards, C.S. Ravindramani.

June 8, 2008

Dear Ravindramani,

//(b) Prof. P.S. Sastri, in his Notes and Illustrations to " Uttara

Kalamrita " translates, in chapter 5, 11th house stands for elder

brother and Jupiter as karaka for elder sibling.//

This is indeed what I've been taught. So, yes! I concur with Prof. P.S.

Sastri that 11th holds elder sibling and Jupiter is karaka for same :-)

//3. When I myself, asked the same question in the initial years

of studying astrology, " where it is written clearly that Jupiter

placed in 11th house does not support the elder siblings " ? The

simple answer given to me was " read Parashara and Uttarakalamrita by

Kalidasa, thoroughly once again " .//

Certainly I'm not as well-versed in Uttarakalamrita as Parashara. However

I cannot recall any (such) rule in Parashara. I could be wrong of course

and will gladly stand corrected if such a rule is located.

I have just taken another look at Bhrigu Sutras and find the following

here: http://jyotishvidya.com/part2_5.htm

Jupiter in the Fifth House:

Sutras 24-31-If Jupiter is in the fifth house, the native will be highly

intelligent, will have broad eyes, will be a good conversationalist, full

of glory, will feed others, love family and in his 18th year become

commander of the army by the favour of the king. He will also have a good

number of children who will be prosperous. If the lord of the 5th is

strong and at the same time in the house of a malefic or his enemy or he

is in his sign of debilitation, there will be loss of children or the

native will have only one issue. He will be rich but will suffer loss of

wealth on account of penalties imposed by the king (Government). If

Jupiter is associated with Rahu or Ketu, the native will suffer loss of

his children on account of the wrath of Serpent God but this will not

happen if Jupiter is aspected by a benefic.

OTHER VIEWS

Brihat Jataka: The native will be intelligent.

Phaldeepika: The native will be intelligent and a minister 120 of the

king but will be unhappy on account of want of children.

Saravali: The native will be happy, will have a good number of children,

will be learned, tolerant, and permanently wealthy.

Chamatkar Chintamani: The native will be fond of luxuries. He will be a

good orator and a writer with good imagination. He will sometimes acquire

wealth through his children.

And Here...

Jupiter in the Eleventh House

Sutras 50-53: If Jupiter is in the eleventh house, the native will be

learned, wealthy and will have lot of financial gains. In his 32nd year

he will possess horses to ride on (this means he will acquire

conveyances) and will have widespread reputation. If he is associated

with benefics and malefics he will possess elephants and will have

pronounced good luck. If Jupiter is associated with Moon, the native will

have effortless financial gains.

OTHER VIEWS

Brihat Jataka: The native will be prosperous.

Phaldeepika: The native will be wealthy, fearless and long lived. He will

have few children but many conveyances.

Saravali: The native will enjoy enormous financial gains, comforts of

conveyances and servants. He will be noble but will have few children and

not much of education.

Chamatkar Chintamani: The native will possess articles of, gold and

silver. He will be intelligent and will maintain his father. He will get

five children. He will spend money not on luxuries but for the good of

others.

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

-

" ravindramani " <ravindramani

<jyotish-vidya >

Sunday, June 08, 2008 7:26 PM

Re: Challenge: Gender

Dear Mrs. Wendy,

1. The posted thumb rule by me was in two parts, " if Jupiter is

placed in 11th house, the native could be the eldest to his or her

parents. Alternatively, he or she could be eldest in his or her

sex " . As per one of the messages by the native (Mr. Deepak

Sharma), he is the eldest in his own sex. Hence in this chart, the

rule applies.

>>>>respected Madam wendy and shree VIC and ravindra ramai ji, this

is true i am eldest in my brothers and sister, but i had one elder

sister who was died in her first few months or may be near by one

year age.>>>>>

In the instant chart, there is a clear indication of this also. In D-

3, the 11th lord Saturn is placed in 12th house. The 8th lord Mars

aspects the Saturn and the Jupiter the karaka for elder sibling. ( I

have not ventured to rectify the birth time.)

2. Jupiter represents elders, and elder brothers. 11th house

stands for elder siblings. Hence his placement in 11th house does

not support the elder siblings to the native. (Another example could

be the placement of Jupiter in 5th house does not support progeny. -

i.e. the corporal significations.- This rule even does not work in

all charts and that there are exceptions to this also.) There could

be more valid foundation for the said thumb rule.

(a) Dr. Raman writes in his book, How to Judge Horoscopes, there

is no karaka for elder brother but he takes Mars as the karaka for

elder brother too. For considering Mars as karaka for elder sibling

he refers the readers to Shri Vaidyanatha Deekshidar.

(b) Prof. P.S. Sastri, in his Notes and Illustrations to " Uttara

Kalamrita " translates, in chapter 5, 11th house stands for elder

brother and Jupiter as karaka for elder sibling.

3. When I myself, asked the same question in the initial years

of studying astrology, " where it is written clearly that Jupiter

placed in 11th house does not support the elder siblings " ? The

simple answer given to me was " read Parashara and Uttarakalamrita by

Kalidasa, thoroughly once again " . Certainly, I can't claim I

studied them thoroughly. Hence I put this rule on the charts and

look for the exceptions. There could be many more.

So far as the exceptions to the thumb rule posted by me is concerned,

1. If there is only one child in a family, the child will be

known as a single child. There is no question of elder or younger.

2. If there are two children, one is male and one is female,

again this rule does not apply logically because of the second part.

3. The other two exceptions, I am put on oath by the astrologer

who told me about the exceptions. Kindly bear with me on this count.

Regards, C.S. Ravindramani.

June 8, 2008

PS: Following on from this. I'm aware that the rule (put forward here)

refers to Jupiter's potential to destroy the personal significations of

the bhava for which he's karaka...is this correct?. Please correct me if

I'm in error here. On this premise we would have to (also) assume that

Jupiter in 2nd would destroy/harm family, whilst in 9th he would destroy

guru/father. Am I correct in assuming this is the thumb-rule?

Again from Bhrigu Sutras...

Jupiter in the Second House

Sutras 7-12: If Jupiter is in the second house the native will be rich

and intelligent. What he foretells will come true. In his 16th year he

will enjoy financial gains and agricultural prosperity. He will also be

very powerful. If Jupiter is in his own sign (Sagittarius or Pisces) or

in his sign of exaltation, the native will be very prosperous and

wealthy. If Jupiter is associates with a malefic there will be obstacles

in educational pursuits and the native will be a thief, liar and will

have vulgar speech. If Jupiter is in his sign of debilitation and

associated with a malefic, the native will be a drunkard and immoral. He

will be a destroyer of his family and will have relations with other

people's wives. He will also be childless.

OTHER VIEWS

Brihat Jataka: The person concerned will be eloquent and sweet tongued.

Phaldeepika: The native will be intelligent, handsome and eloquent. He

will get good food to eat. Jupiter in the second will improve all the

good significations of this house.

Saravali: The native will be rich, fond of luxuries, eloquent handsome,

sweet tongued and charitable.

Chamatkar Chintamani: The native will be fond of poetry. He will be well

versed in administrative affairs. He will suffer on account of lack of

food. He will be very talkative. He will earn wealth with difficulty and

inspite of all his efforts he will be unable to accumulate any wealth.

And Here...

Jupiter in the Ninth House

Sutras 44-45: The native will perform religious and charitable deeds,

will take interest in meditation and will be pious and wealthy. He will

perform religious ceremonies in his 35th year. His father will be long

lived, he will be righteous and will receive respect and honour in many

ways. He will give protection to many.

Comments-The above Sutras are very logical and to the point Beneficial

results have been attributed to Jupiter in the ninth house because as a

natural benefic he improves all the good significations of this

auspicious house. Still better results would be experienced if Jupiter is

in his own sign or in his sign of exaltation. If Jupiter is in one of his

own signs, by being lord of 9th in the 9th, he will give rise to a

powerful Rajayoga giving name, fame and wealth to the native. If Jupiter

is in his sign of exaltation (Cancer), the ascendant will be Scorpio and

Jupiter will be in the ninth house as lord of 2nd and 5th, giving rise to

an extremely powerful yoga for prosperity and fame.

OTHER VIEWS

Brihat Jataka: The native will be devout and philosophical.

Phaldeepika: The native will be wealthy, blessed with children, famous,

anxious to perform religious rites and a minister of the king.

Saravali: The native will worship family gods, will be learned, handsome,

a minister of the king or commander of the army and a recognised leader.

Chamatkar Chintamani: The native will own a palatial mansion. He will be

a favourite of the king and devotee of Brahmins. He will be loved by his

near relations.