Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Vic, the answer is v simple most birth data r approx, in cases when u know the family and predict it is possible to say for sure on sex but in unknown cases it is difficult, and after know the sex and a few life events we do rectify birth time in quite a few cases if u r familiar with vargas u will know how a slight shift in birth time can change them so it is in case of sex too so like ur father saud it is TOO EZ2b wrong Best wishes On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 7:48 AM, Vic D <vicdicara wrote: > Dear All, > > Why can't we read the gender from a birth chart??? It seems so simple, > yet I've heard of no way that you can look at a chart and say whether > the native is male or female. You can tell the size of their navel, > but not their gender??? Why is that? > > My dad says it's because " its too easy to be wrong " . > > What do you think? This is troubling to me. > > Yours, > Vic > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Prashant, I don't understand. You are saying that Birth Data is approximate, therefore it's difficult to know the gender. But if we can't know something as basic as gender with our birth data, how can the same approximate birth data tell us something as specific as blood type, or the way a person's path towards moksha will operate? My father's angle on " it's too easy to be wrong " is this: " Astrology is not accurate, but you can fudge it when you talk about things that are not concrete. Gender is very concrete, you are either clearly right or clearly wrong. Therefore astrology does not attempt to answer what the gender of the native is - because then it would reveal itself as inaccurate. " How do you defend against this? Please explain further. Thanks, Vic On Jun 4, 2008, at 11:07 PM, astro desk wrote: > Vic, > the answer is v simple most birth data r approx, in cases when u > know the > family and predict it is possible to say for sure on sex but in > unknown > cases it is difficult, and after know the sex and a few life events > we do > rectify birth time in quite a few cases > if u r familiar with vargas u will know how a slight shift in birth > time can > change them so it is in case of sex too > > so like ur father saud it is TOO EZ2b wrong > > Best wishes > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 7:48 AM, Vic D <vicdicara wrote: > >> Dear All, >> >> Why can't we read the gender from a birth chart??? It seems so >> simple, >> yet I've heard of no way that you can look at a chart and say whether >> the native is male or female. You can tell the size of their navel, >> but not their gender??? Why is that? >> >> My dad says it's because " its too easy to be wrong " . >> >> What do you think? This is troubling to me. >> >> Yours, >> Vic >> >> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Vic All i meant is any family astrloger who knows their pattern can say it for sure even if there is an error he can know and do the needful in unknown cases it is hard I did not say not possible, as birth process is itself a challanging one and it is reported time by a nurse who is anyway busy with the job than watch the birth time on her writes watch or clock y/n? and who ssaid u can predict blood group it is absurd sure not possible to say one can do it about Moksha etc we can like anyother events duing our life some one or other will fine tune ur birth time from there all will be on track pl take a look at birth data posted in groups for example u will know it is approx can anyone be born on clock of the hr or half hr? say 5.30 pm or 7 am etc, it is possible to be born like that not so many as posted around astrology is not approximate it is a science intself combines many fields of science and has its own rules too, u can judge a subject only when u know its rules it is like asking a doctor to study star rays in light years from each they can see to the earth or metalergist to talk of physical or atomic science each has its own rules basics may be same up to a point Best wishes prashant kumar On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Vic D <vicdicara wrote: > Prashant, > > I don't understand. You are saying that Birth Data is approximate, > therefore it's difficult to know the gender. But if we can't know > something as basic as gender with our birth data, how can the same > approximate birth data tell us something as specific as blood type, or > the way a person's path towards moksha will operate? > > My father's angle on " it's too easy to be wrong " is this: " Astrology > is not accurate, but you can fudge it when you talk about things that > are not concrete. Gender is very concrete, you are either clearly > right or clearly wrong. Therefore astrology does not attempt to answer > what the gender of the native is - because then it would reveal itself > as inaccurate. " > > How do you defend against this? Please explain further. > > Thanks, > Vic > > > On Jun 4, 2008, at 11:07 PM, astro desk wrote: > > > Vic, > > the answer is v simple most birth data r approx, in cases when u > > know the > > family and predict it is possible to say for sure on sex but in > > unknown > > cases it is difficult, and after know the sex and a few life events > > we do > > rectify birth time in quite a few cases > > if u r familiar with vargas u will know how a slight shift in birth > > time can > > change them so it is in case of sex too > > > > so like ur father saud it is TOO EZ2b wrong > > > > Best wishes > > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 7:48 AM, Vic D <vicdicara<vicdicara%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > >> Dear All, > >> > >> Why can't we read the gender from a birth chart??? It seems so > >> simple, > >> yet I've heard of no way that you can look at a chart and say whether > >> the native is male or female. You can tell the size of their navel, > >> but not their gender??? Why is that? > >> > >> My dad says it's because " its too easy to be wrong " . > >> > >> What do you think? This is troubling to me. > >> > >> Yours, > >> Vic > >> > >> > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Prashantji, > All i meant is any family astrloger who knows their pattern can say > it for > sure even if there is an error he can know and do the needful Could you tell me pattern so I could start experimenting with it? > and who ssaid u can predict blood group it is absurd sure not > possible to > say one can do it There is a member on this forum who is working on it. Check the message archive. It is recent. Off the top of my head i think it is Krishna. Maybe I'm mistaken. But anyway, I personally know how to predict the size of a person's belly button, but I have no idea how to tell which gender they are, and I find that to be exceedingly odd. I would really like to know if there are any formulas given regarding reading gender from a chart. - Vic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 vic in gen the rules are male sign, Lagna, vargas, its lord in sych vargas more than female but u can see beautiful men instead of handsome men at times a s they may have a strong femine sign Lagna, vargas too Opp for other female where u may find women like tom boys the pattern can be Guru, sani , Kuja the longer duration planets will have a pattern say in fixed sign. watery signs or earthly sign and with chandra and Kuja association, or or a particular house or sign a planet is in in my family 3/8 have Kuja in Kanya 3 have Guru in Watery sign mine opp to Kataka-watery in my 1st B-I-LAW's family almost all have Lagna rahu, and lagna is a fixed sign in my 2nd BIL's family all have Lagna in airy signs with guru aspect in my 2nd BIls case I had predicted he will have a daughter born on Aug 9/10 96 in Mithuna rasi, lagna and arudra star even before her pregnancy was confirmed here felt it can happen in the airy sign but Guru will be in 7th to it. it was confirmed a few days later. even as lates as Aug 8 96 when It was nearing term the doc said it is not ready to deliver and will post pone by 2 weeks but next day nite she was admitted and as expected the girl was born in Aridra just 3 min into it quite often the eldest born will share the father's Lagna or rasi or its trines or 7th to it. the last one of the mother's like wise this is true for couple with a stable marriage. but if they r changing partners in between then the picture needs similar adjustments. My grand fatter, father, my elder brother r Kataka lagna born my lagna lord in kataka Jawaharlal Nehru India's 1st PM his daughter, were Kataka lagna her 2nd son was Makara lagna the 7th to it study a few family cases u will see a pattern emerging. and use it to predict future kids will work, I have done this so far in many cases -this is the reason I give full credit to our rishes than our prowess as v r merely folowing their rules with due adaptation to our times, culture. Best wishes On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 10:04 PM, Vic D <vicdicara wrote: > Prashantji, > > > All i meant is any family astrloger who knows their pattern can say > > it for > > sure even if there is an error he can know and do the needful > > Could you tell me pattern so I could start experimenting with it? > > > and who ssaid u can predict blood group it is absurd sure not > > possible to > > say one can do it > > There is a member on this forum who is working on it. Check the > message archive. It is recent. Off the top of my head i think it is > Krishna. Maybe I'm mistaken. But anyway, I personally know how to > predict the size of a person's belly button, but I have no idea how to > tell which gender they are, and I find that to be exceedingly odd. I > would really like to know if there are any formulas given regarding > reading gender from a chart. > > - Vic > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Prashant, > in gen the rules are male sign, Lagna, vargas, its lord in sych > vargas more than female Are you saying: " when lagna is male and lord is male in rasi and vargas you definately have a male " ? Lets consider me. Here's my data: ~~~ Rasi ~~~ Lagna: 10 (female) Lagnesh: 1 (male) ~~~ halves (hora) ~~~ Lagna: 10 (female) Lagnesh: 1 (male) ~~~ 3rds (drekkan) ~~~~ Lagna: 10 (female) Lagnesh: 9 (male) ~~~ 5ths ~~~~ Lagna: 2 (female) Lagnesh: 7 (male) ~~~ 7ths ~~~~ Lagna: 4 (female) Lagnesh: 10 (female) ~~~ 9ths ~~~ Lagna: 10 (female) Lagnesh: 9 (male) ~~~ 12ths ~~~ Lagna: 10 (female) Lagnesh: 12 (female) What do you make of that!? I included the moon for curiosity. I included the sun because i conncet it with the visible self / external body. But let's leave those two by the wayside... The overall reading of 7 divisionals is (notation is " M/F " so " 3/4 " means " Three male, four female " ) Lagna: 0/7 Lagnesh: 5/2 Lagna says i am female 100% of the time, lagnes says I am male 72% of the time. Looks like i should either be a female, or a really good looking and feminine man. (nudge nudge, hahaha). BTW surya was 100% female, and chandra was 72% female. I happen to know with assurance that I'm a male (though it's rare that I didn't wish I wasn't). In fact, that DOES show through in the data. Now let's go back and address my father's question - " WHY CAN'T YOU TELL IF THE PERSON IS MALE OR FEMALE " Here is the answer I have developed with your help, Prashant. " Dad. You CAN tell. But the answer you will get from Vedic Astrology will reflect the deeper truth that Gender is not as simple as genitalia. There are spectrums of genders from very masculine inside and out, to very feminine outside and in - and everything in between - and THAT's what astrology will tell you " Here is what his reply will be: " THAT'S NICE. I APPRECIATE THAT. BUT STILL, YOU CAN DO MEDICAL DIAGNOSIS WITH ASTROLOGY, CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE GENITALIA IS? " And honestly, I don't know how, and don't know why I shouldn't be able to. Yours, Vic On Jun 5, 2008, at 10:20 AM, astro desk wrote: > vic > > in gen the rules > are male sign, Lagna, vargas, its lord in sych vargas more than female > > but u can see beautiful men instead of handsome men at times a s > they may > have a strong femine sign Lagna, vargas too Opp for other female > where u may > find women like tom boys > > the pattern can be > > Guru, sani , Kuja the longer duration planets will have a pattern > say in fixed sign. watery signs or earthly sign and with chandra and > Kuja > association, or > > or a particular house or sign a planet is in > > in my family 3/8 have Kuja in Kanya > 3 have Guru in Watery sign > mine opp to Kataka-watery > > in my 1st B-I-LAW's family almost all have Lagna rahu, and lagna is > a fixed > sign > in my 2nd BIL's family all have Lagna in airy signs with guru aspect > > in my 2nd BIls case > > I had predicted he will have a daughter born on Aug 9/10 96 in > Mithuna rasi, > lagna and arudra star even before her pregnancy was confirmed here > felt it > can happen in the airy sign but Guru will be in 7th to it. > > it was confirmed a few days later. > > even as lates as Aug 8 96 when It was nearing term the doc said it > is not > ready to deliver and will post pone by 2 weeks but next day nite she > was > admitted and as expected the girl was born in Aridra just 3 min into > it > > quite often > the eldest born will share the father's Lagna or rasi or its trines > or 7th > to it. > the last one of the mother's like wise > > this is true for couple with a stable marriage. > but if they r changing partners in between then the picture needs > similar > adjustments. > > > My grand fatter, father, my elder brother r Kataka lagna born > my lagna lord in kataka > > Jawaharlal Nehru India's 1st PM his daughter, were Kataka lagna her > 2nd son > was Makara lagna the 7th to it > > study a few family cases u will see a pattern emerging. and use it to > predict future kids will work, I have done this so far in many cases > -this > is the reason I give full credit to our rishes than our prowess as v r > merely folowing their rules with due adaptation to our times, culture. > > > Best wishes > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 10:04 PM, Vic D <vicdicara wrote: > >> Prashantji, >> >>> All i meant is any family astrloger who knows their pattern can say >>> it for >>> sure even if there is an error he can know and do the needful >> >> Could you tell me pattern so I could start experimenting with it? >> >>> and who ssaid u can predict blood group it is absurd sure not >>> possible to >>> say one can do it >> >> There is a member on this forum who is working on it. Check the >> message archive. It is recent. Off the top of my head i think it is >> Krishna. Maybe I'm mistaken. But anyway, I personally know how to >> predict the size of a person's belly button, but I have no idea how >> to >> tell which gender they are, and I find that to be exceedingly odd. I >> would really like to know if there are any formulas given regarding >> reading gender from a chart. >> >> - Vic >> >> >> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Hi Prashanthji, You wrote: //quite often the eldest born will share the father's Lagna or rasi or its trines or 7th to it ; the last one of the mother's like wise.this is true for couple with a stable marriage.// In my family this is very much true. My Father and eldest brother share the same rasi and nakshathra (tula, swati). I am the youngest in my family and 7th from my mother's lagna is my lagna sign. Her's is Aquarius and mine is Leo. Regards, Manasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Vic I did say same what u called spectrusm of male or female.... and read again I said `in gen not as a rule' on male female as u were asking for some clues not cast in iron ones, which I said is not possible and came close to what u said on spectrurums now as u KNOW u r male u need to fine tune ur vargas to make it dominant male if u have more masculine features and less shades of female try this and see if it improvues any past , present events and it is possible more when data and source of data is good else we have to work our way is a point to be remembered u did not coment on the pattenrs I had mentioned hope u r working on it. [rashant kumar On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 11:35 PM, Vic D <vicdicara wrote: > Prashant, > > > in gen the rules are male sign, Lagna, vargas, its lord in sych > > vargas more than female > > Are you saying: " when lagna is male and lord is male in rasi and > vargas you definately have a male " ? > > Lets consider me. Here's my data: > > ~~~ Rasi ~~~ > Lagna: 10 (female) > Lagnesh: 1 (male) > > ~~~ halves (hora) ~~~ > Lagna: 10 (female) > Lagnesh: 1 (male) > > ~~~ 3rds (drekkan) ~~~~ > Lagna: 10 (female) > Lagnesh: 9 (male) > > ~~~ 5ths ~~~~ > Lagna: 2 (female) > Lagnesh: 7 (male) > > ~~~ 7ths ~~~~ > Lagna: 4 (female) > Lagnesh: 10 (female) > > ~~~ 9ths ~~~ > Lagna: 10 (female) > Lagnesh: 9 (male) > > ~~~ 12ths ~~~ > Lagna: 10 (female) > Lagnesh: 12 (female) > > What do you make of that!? I included the moon for curiosity. I > included the sun because i conncet it with the visible self / external > body. But let's leave those two by the wayside... The overall reading > of 7 divisionals is (notation is " M/F " so " 3/4 " means " Three male, > four female " ) > > Lagna: 0/7 > Lagnesh: 5/2 > > Lagna says i am female 100% of the time, lagnes says I am male 72% of > the time. Looks like i should either be a female, or a really good > looking and feminine man. (nudge nudge, hahaha). BTW surya was 100% > female, and chandra was 72% female. > > I happen to know with assurance that I'm a male (though it's rare that > I didn't wish I wasn't). > > In fact, that DOES show through in the data. > > Now let's go back and address my father's question - " WHY CAN'T YOU > TELL IF THE PERSON IS MALE OR FEMALE " > > Here is the answer I have developed with your help, Prashant. " Dad. > You CAN tell. But the answer you will get from Vedic Astrology will > reflect the deeper truth that Gender is not as simple as genitalia. > There are spectrums of genders from very masculine inside and out, to > very feminine outside and in - and everything in between - and THAT's > what astrology will tell you " > > Here is what his reply will be: " THAT'S NICE. I APPRECIATE THAT. BUT > STILL, YOU CAN DO MEDICAL DIAGNOSIS WITH ASTROLOGY, CAN YOU TELL ME > WHAT THE GENITALIA IS? " > > And honestly, I don't know how, and don't know why I shouldn't be able > to. > > Yours, > Vic > > > On Jun 5, 2008, at 10:20 AM, astro desk wrote: > > > vic > > > > in gen the rules > > are male sign, Lagna, vargas, its lord in sych vargas more than female > > > > but u can see beautiful men instead of handsome men at times a s > > they may > > have a strong femine sign Lagna, vargas too Opp for other female > > where u may > > find women like tom boys > > > > the pattern can be > > > > Guru, sani , Kuja the longer duration planets will have a pattern > > say in fixed sign. watery signs or earthly sign and with chandra and > > Kuja > > association, or > > > > or a particular house or sign a planet is in > > > > in my family 3/8 have Kuja in Kanya > > 3 have Guru in Watery sign > > mine opp to Kataka-watery > > > > in my 1st B-I-LAW's family almost all have Lagna rahu, and lagna is > > a fixed > > sign > > in my 2nd BIL's family all have Lagna in airy signs with guru aspect > > > > in my 2nd BIls case > > > > I had predicted he will have a daughter born on Aug 9/10 96 in > > Mithuna rasi, > > lagna and arudra star even before her pregnancy was confirmed here > > felt it > > can happen in the airy sign but Guru will be in 7th to it. > > > > it was confirmed a few days later. > > > > even as lates as Aug 8 96 when It was nearing term the doc said it > > is not > > ready to deliver and will post pone by 2 weeks but next day nite she > > was > > admitted and as expected the girl was born in Aridra just 3 min into > > it > > > > quite often > > the eldest born will share the father's Lagna or rasi or its trines > > or 7th > > to it. > > the last one of the mother's like wise > > > > this is true for couple with a stable marriage. > > but if they r changing partners in between then the picture needs > > similar > > adjustments. > > > > > > My grand fatter, father, my elder brother r Kataka lagna born > > my lagna lord in kataka > > > > Jawaharlal Nehru India's 1st PM his daughter, were Kataka lagna her > > 2nd son > > was Makara lagna the 7th to it > > > > study a few family cases u will see a pattern emerging. and use it to > > predict future kids will work, I have done this so far in many cases > > -this > > is the reason I give full credit to our rishes than our prowess as v r > > merely folowing their rules with due adaptation to our times, culture. > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 10:04 PM, Vic D <vicdicara<vicdicara%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > >> Prashantji, > >> > >>> All i meant is any family astrloger who knows their pattern can say > >>> it for > >>> sure even if there is an error he can know and do the needful > >> > >> Could you tell me pattern so I could start experimenting with it? > >> > >>> and who ssaid u can predict blood group it is absurd sure not > >>> possible to > >>> say one can do it > >> > >> There is a member on this forum who is working on it. Check the > >> message archive. It is recent. Off the top of my head i think it is > >> Krishna. Maybe I'm mistaken. But anyway, I personally know how to > >> predict the size of a person's belly button, but I have no idea how > >> to > >> tell which gender they are, and I find that to be exceedingly odd. I > >> would really like to know if there are any formulas given regarding > >> reading gender from a chart. > >> > >> - Vic > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Manasa, thanks for validating even a gen statement, as the rules r there *exemptions are thee too*, we need to know both that is why I used i`n Gen' but it will work in many some it won't there u may have more spectrums of whichver sex is dominat in features' though sex may be opposite to features did rajiv gandhi look more male, or rahul, sanjay NO WAY THEY LOOKED MORE FEMALE THAN MALE. no strong masculine features but slender, delicate, beautiful features they had. best wishes prashant On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 12:45 AM, m2sangeeth <m2sangeeth wrote: > > Hi Prashanthji, > > You wrote: > > //quite often the eldest born will share the father's Lagna or rasi or > its trines or 7th to it ; the last one of the mother's like wise.this > is true for couple with a stable marriage.// > > In my family this is very much true. My Father and eldest brother > share the same rasi and nakshathra (tula, swati). I am the youngest in > my family and 7th from my mother's lagna is my lagna sign. Her's is > Aquarius and mine is Leo. > > Regards, > Manasa > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Dear Friends, How many reference points to be considered? 1. Lagna - One sign 2. Rasi/Where Moon Placed - another sign it is quite possible 3. Their trines - at least another six signs 4. Their seventh - at least another two signs Out of 12 signs - 10 signs can be covered.. A person to be the eldest has 10 chances of having his lagna of the above mentioned ........ am I understading your point/parameter or missing something? Regards, C.S. Ravindramani. > You wrote: > > //quite often the eldest born will share the father's Lagna or rasi or > its trines or 7th to it ; the last one of the mother's like wise.this > is true for couple with a stable marriage.// > -- In jyotish-vidya , " astro desk " <astro.prashantkumar wrote: > > Manasa, > > thanks for validating even a gen statement, as the rules r there *exemptions > are thee too*, we need to know both that is why I used i`n Gen' but it will > work in many some it won't there u may have more spectrums of whichver sex > is dominat in features' though sex may be opposite to features > > did rajiv gandhi look more male, or rahul, sanjay NO WAY THEY LOOKED MORE > FEMALE THAN MALE. > no strong masculine features but slender, delicate, beautiful features they > had. > > best wishes > > prashant > On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 12:45 AM, m2sangeeth <m2sangeeth wrote: > > > > > Hi Prashanthji, > > > > You wrote: > > > > //quite often the eldest born will share the father's Lagna or rasi or > > its trines or 7th to it ; the last one of the mother's like wise.this > > is true for couple with a stable marriage.// > > > > In my family this is very much true. My Father and eldest brother > > share the same rasi and nakshathra (tula, swati). I am the youngest in > > my family and 7th from my mother's lagna is my lagna sign. Her's is > > Aquarius and mine is Leo. > > > > Regards, > > Manasa > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 CSR once u start with this and identify a pattern in a family u will be able to eliminate a few from the list. study the major planets in the family esp parents, grand parents add these two u can sharpen it to start with u can do what Manasa has said check ur family charts an d then the pattern this must also be remember when u r trying to test the subject only u get more confusing answers once u have a real case before hand u will get some more eliminated by the guidance from almighty too. if things were so easy , many wud have written a software to predict and eliminate the human had in interpretations isn't it? rules, exemptions etc all form part of the scheme and the final word is Almighty's who will give u a clue or tow depending on the sincerity of the question before u Best wishes On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 10:51 AM, ravindramani <ravindramani wrote: > Dear Friends, > > How many reference points to be considered? > > 1. Lagna - One sign > 2. Rasi/Where Moon Placed - another sign it is quite possible > 3. Their trines - at least another six signs > 4. Their seventh - at least another two signs > > Out of 12 signs - 10 signs can be covered.. A person to be the eldest > has 10 chances of having his lagna of the above mentioned ........ am > I understading your point/parameter or missing something? > > Regards, C.S. Ravindramani. > > > You wrote: > > > > //quite often the eldest born will share the father's Lagna or rasi > or > > its trines or 7th to it ; the last one of the mother's like > wise.this > > is true for couple with a stable marriage.// > > > > -- In jyotish-vidya <jyotish-vidya%40>, > " astro desk " > <astro.prashantkumar wrote: > > > > Manasa, > > > > thanks for validating even a gen statement, as the rules r there > *exemptions > > are thee too*, we need to know both that is why I used i`n Gen' but > it will > > work in many some it won't there u may have more spectrums of > whichver sex > > is dominat in features' though sex may be opposite to features > > > > did rajiv gandhi look more male, or rahul, sanjay NO WAY THEY > LOOKED MORE > > FEMALE THAN MALE. > > no strong masculine features but slender, delicate, beautiful > features they > > had. > > > > best wishes > > > > prashant > > On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 12:45 AM, m2sangeeth <m2sangeeth wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Prashanthji, > > > > > > You wrote: > > > > > > //quite often the eldest born will share the father's Lagna or > rasi or > > > its trines or 7th to it ; the last one of the mother's like > wise.this > > > is true for couple with a stable marriage.// > > > > > > In my family this is very much true. My Father and eldest brother > > > share the same rasi and nakshathra (tula, swati). I am the > youngest in > > > my family and 7th from my mother's lagna is my lagna sign. Her's > is > > > Aquarius and mine is Leo. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Manasa > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Dear Group, My point is that it is so wide, the parameter is, that eveybody would be fit in this. Now another issue the major planets added. Regards, C.S. Ravindramani. PS: Those interested on the thread, test this simple thumb rule in their collection of charts, if Jupiter is placed in 11th house, the native could be the eldest to his or her parents. Alternatively, he or she could be eldest in his or her sex. ======================= Dear Friends, How many reference points to be considered? 1. Lagna - One sign 2. Rasi/Where Moon Placed - another sign it is quite possible 3. Their trines - at least another six signs 4. Their seventh - at least another two signs Out of 12 signs - 10 signs can be covered.. A person to be the eldest has 10 chances of having his lagna of the above mentioned ........ am I understading your point/parameter or missing something? Regards, C.S. Ravindramani. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 CSR U have only decided to see it in parts only the major planets part exists in the 1st instance only, please read the thread all over again, in my replies to Vic u will find this.[patterns, major planets, r given] nothing added now SADLY. prashant On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 1:12 PM, ravindramani <ravindramani wrote: > Dear Group, > > My point is that it is so wide, the parameter is, that eveybody would > be fit in this. Now another issue the major planets added. > > Regards, C.S. Ravindramani. > > PS: Those interested on the thread, test this simple thumb rule in > their collection of charts, if Jupiter is placed in 11th house, the > native could be the eldest to his or her parents. Alternatively, he > or she could be eldest in his or her sex. > > ======================= > > Dear Friends, > > How many reference points to be considered? > > 1. Lagna - One sign > 2. Rasi/Where Moon Placed - another sign it is quite possible > 3. Their trines - at least another six signs > 4. Their seventh - at least another two signs > > Out of 12 signs - 10 signs can be covered.. A person to be the eldest > has 10 chances of having his lagna of the above mentioned ........ am > I understading your point/parameter or missing something? > > Regards, C.S. Ravindramani. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Prashant-ji, > u did not coment on the pattenrs I had mentioned hope u r working on > it. Yes it's not easy to understand. Let's try: > the pattern can be Guru, sani , Kuja the longer duration planets > will have a pattern say in fixed sign. watery signs or earthly sign > and with chandra and Kuja association, or a particular house or sign > a planet is in. Your saying something about the outer planets being a particular type of sign (earth/water/etc, or fixed/moving/dual). Or there will be a patters associated with Mars and Moon. Or a pattern of a particular house or a sign. You are saying to look for this pattern in the charts of the nuclear family. So for example, my mother and I are both capricorn. There is a pattern. Look for other patterns in the moon and outer planets. When I find prominent patterns between the native and his or her nuclear family, I will concentrate further on the participants in that pattern. Is that correct? Thanks, Vic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Voc yes u got it right u say u have ur Mother lagna, does this mean ur parents had a conception earlier and not materialised into a child- thi s is possible unless ur Moon sign and fathers is same. Best wishes Prashant On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 4:09 AM, Vic D <vicdicara wrote: > Prashant-ji, > > > u did not coment on the pattenrs I had mentioned hope u r working on > > it. > > Yes it's not easy to understand. Let's try: > > > the pattern can be Guru, sani , Kuja the longer duration planets > > will have a pattern say in fixed sign. watery signs or earthly sign > > and with chandra and Kuja association, or a particular house or sign > > a planet is in. > > Your saying something about the outer planets being a particular type > of sign (earth/water/etc, or fixed/moving/dual). Or there will be a > patters associated with Mars and Moon. Or a pattern of a particular > house or a sign. > > You are saying to look for this pattern in the charts of the nuclear > family. > > So for example, my mother and I are both capricorn. There is a > pattern. Look for other patterns in the moon and outer planets. When I > find prominent patterns between the native and his or her nuclear > family, I will concentrate further on the participants in that pattern. > > Is that correct? > > Thanks, > Vic > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2008 Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 Dear Vic and All, I was taught that gender and race are the two things that cannot be discerned from horoscope. We must remember that, prior to the modern (internet) age, an astrologer sitting face-to-face with a querant would instantly know the gender/race of the person next to him. Today, with so much internet consulting going on, it behoves the astrologer to enquire about these fundamentals before proceeding as it does make a difference how the horoscope is viewed. The gender of offspring (children) is a different matter and (I believe) is to be judged from; * 5th house and its lord. * 5th karaka and its lord * Saptamsha (chart of children) in conjunction with dasa period. For my part I had two male children. Seen with Mars in 5th aspecting 5th lord Venus who happens (also) to be the dispositor of Jupiter's dispositor (Moon). Taking this to its final point we see that Sun (male) is the final dispositor of the planets associated with children i.e. MO, MA, JU, VE. PS: Also clear in this chart, of course, is the unborn first child. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ___ - " Vic D " <vicdicara <jyotish-vidya > Thursday, June 05, 2008 2:16 PM Re: Challenge: Gender Prashant, I don't understand. You are saying that Birth Data is approximate, therefore it's difficult to know the gender. But if we can't know something as basic as gender with our birth data, how can the same approximate birth data tell us something as specific as blood type, or the way a person's path towards moksha will operate? My father's angle on " it's too easy to be wrong " is this: " Astrology is not accurate, but you can fudge it when you talk about things that are not concrete. Gender is very concrete, you are either clearly right or clearly wrong. Therefore astrology does not attempt to answer what the gender of the native is - because then it would reveal itself as inaccurate. " How do you defend against this? Please explain further. Thanks, Vic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2008 Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 Dear Ravindramani, //PS: Those interested on the thread, test this simple thumb rule in their collection of charts, if Jupiter is placed in 11th house, the native could be the eldest to his or her parents. Alternatively, he or she could be eldest in his or her sex.// Yes, I've see this thumb-rule put forward several times on different groups and have been watching charts with this in mind. Just one example that comes quickly to mind (that doesn't hold up to this) is my dearly departed sister, Beverley. She, with lagnesh Jupiter in 7th, was the eldest of eight daughters. However, what tells me that she was the eldest is 11th lord's occupancy of 12th along with 11th karaka's dispositor (Mercury). These things, to my mind, have denied her elder siblings. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ___ - " ravindramani " <ravindramani <jyotish-vidya > Friday, June 06, 2008 3:42 PM Re: Challenge: Gender Dear Group, My point is that it is so wide, the parameter is, that eveybody would be fit in this. Now another issue the major planets added. Regards, C.S. Ravindramani. PS: Those interested on the thread, test this simple thumb rule in their collection of charts, if Jupiter is placed in 11th house, the native could be the eldest to his or her parents. Alternatively, he or she could be eldest in his or her sex. ======================= Dear Friends, How many reference points to be considered? 1. Lagna - One sign 2. Rasi/Where Moon Placed - another sign it is quite possible 3. Their trines - at least another six signs 4. Their seventh - at least another two signs Out of 12 signs - 10 signs can be covered.. A person to be the eldest has 10 chances of having his lagna of the above mentioned ........ am I understading your point/parameter or missing something? Regards, C.S. Ravindramani. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2008 Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 Dear Vic, Prashant and All, //You are saying to look for this pattern in the charts of the nuclear family. So for example, my mother and I are both capricorn. There is a pattern. Look for other patterns in the moon and outer planets. When I find prominent patterns between the native and his or her nuclear family, I will concentrate further on the participants in that pattern. Is that correct?// For those interested, this topic (nuclear) family has been discussed several times on JV. I include below msg #3973 (2 Sep 2006) Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ___ jyotish-vidya , " Wendy Vasicek " <jyotish wrote: Dear Krishna, I will take a look at your paper as soon as time allows... At the moment I'm trying to enjoy my (so-called) weekend away from the group in order to catch up with other correspondence, website updates and some much needed rest and recreation...although it rarely seems to work out that way :-( Regarding David's lagna, I assure you it is Sagittarius 23°59'21 " . I have no idea what data you're using for the father as it's not in the data base? You're welcome to have it though...data follows: George Gault Aug 19 1929 (13.25) Edinburgh, Scotland Lagna: Libra 16°58'20 " It's an accepted rule that the genetic link between family members is seen primarily through (either) Lagna, Sun or Moon. Other (family) traits, that distinguish one sibling from the other, are further evident through planetary placements. See following... FATHER: Libra rising - Sun in Leo - Moon in Capricorn. MOTHER: Capricorn rising - Sun in Leo - Moon in Libra. 1ST CHILD: Sun in Capricorn ( ties in with both parents). 2ND CHILD: Sun in Libra (ties in with both parents). PS: David's T.O.B. is 10:01 (AM) Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com _____________________ - " Krishnamurthy Seetharama " <krishna_1998 <jyotish-vidya > Saturday, September 02, 2006 4:23 PM Some more data points Dear Wendy, I am yet to hear from you on my research paper. Meanwhile, I was searching for data of parents and children and it occurred to me that your family data is available in the database. I have used the same and the results are presented below. You will undertand this table if you have read my paper. F - Father Rasi M - Mother Rasi C - Child Rasi Name: Andrew Rule Planet F M C Transformation Applicable Lagna 108 298 348 298+60=358, diff 10 (3rd) ATAI_01 Ravi 74 138 284 proper match not found yet to find Chandra 340 188 91 188-90=98,diff 7 (Kendra) ATAI_02 Budha 67 164 259 67+180=247,diff 12 (7th) ATAI_01 Sukra 67 141 320 141+180=321,diff 1 (7th) ATAI_01 Kuja 147 43 288 43+240=283,diff 5 (trine) ATAI_02 Guru 239 111 351 239+120=359,diff 8 (5th) ATAI_01 Sani 117 62 300 117+180=297, diff 3 (Kendra)ATAI_02 Rahu 18 111 77 18+60=78,diff 1 (3rd CDA) ATAI_04 Ketu 198 299 257 diff 1 (3rd) ATAI_04 In case of David, I am getting a different Lagna. I tried using JHora also. Even that gives the same Lagna as below. You seem to have given a different lagna in the database. I don't where I am going wrong. Name: David Rule Planet F M C Transformation Applicable Lagna 108 298 276 108+180=288,diff 12 (7th) ATAI_01 Ravi 74 138 192 138+60=198,diff 6 (3rd CDC) ATAI_04 Chandra 340 188 246 188+60=248,diff 2 (3rd CDA) ATAI_04 Budha 67 164 211 164+60=224,diff 13 (3rd CDC)ATAI_04 Sukra 67 141 238 67+180=247,diff 9 (7th) ATAI_01 Kuja 147 43 234 147+90=237,diff 3 (4th) ATAI_01 Guru 239 111 68 239-180=59,diff 9 (7th) ATAI_01 Sani 117 62 317 62+270=332,diff 15 (10th) ATAI_01 Rahu 18 111 43 18+30=48,diff 5 (2nd) ATAI_01 Ketu 198 299 223 diff 5 (2nd) ATAI_01 I did the calculations for Uttara's children also. I am getting acceptable results for them as well. Please give your feedback. Regards, Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2008 Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 Dear Mrs. Wendy, This thumb rule has been tested for a considerable time on charts even before the advent of Internet Jyotish Groups. It has a brilliant logic based on the instructions of the sages in classics. As you are aware, this kind of rule has its own exceptions as that of other rules. There are four exceptions to this as far as my knowledge goes. Thumb rule of such of these are used to know the correctness of the chart at a glance before going into detail. This rule works fine. (Between 60 to 65% of cases.) Rest of the 30 to 35 per cent falls under the exceptions. You will kindly appreciate one should know the exceptions along the rule. It is for the students to experiment them and to come to a conclusion whether to use or discard a rule. See the Jupiter in my chart. Cast the chart of Deepak Sharma (you might have already done) who has given his life events in detail recently in the Group. His Jupiter is in 11th house. He is the eldest to his parents. But in my view, his lagna needs a slight correction. I noted your comments regarding your departed sister. Regards, C.S. Ravindramani. jyotish-vidya , " Wendy Vasicek " <jyotishvidya wrote: > > Dear Ravindramani, > > //PS: Those interested on the thread, test this simple thumb rule in > their collection of charts, if Jupiter is placed in 11th house, the > native could be the eldest to his or her parents. Alternatively, he > or she could be eldest in his or her sex.// > > Yes, I've see this thumb-rule put forward several times on different > groups and have been watching charts with this in mind. Just one example > that comes quickly to mind (that doesn't hold up to this) is my dearly > departed sister, Beverley. She, with lagnesh Jupiter in 7th, was the > eldest of eight daughters. However, what tells me that she was the eldest > is 11th lord's occupancy of 12th along with 11th karaka's dispositor > (Mercury). These things, to my mind, have denied her elder siblings. > > Best Wishes, > Mrs. Wendy > http://JyotishVidya.com > ___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 Dear Ravindramani, //There are four exceptions to this as far as my knowledge goes.// When you have the time could you please share with us the four exceptions to this rule. Also can this rule be found in any classic text? I don't recall having seen it; but of course I could have and simply forgot, this is quite possible. I would sincerely like to know the foundation on which this rule stands and would be grateful if you could point me to some reference to this. //Cast the chart of Deepak Sharma (you might have already done) who has given his life events in detail recently in the Group. His Jupiter is in 11th house. He is the eldest to his parents. But in my view, his lagna needs a slight correction.// I have had a quick look at Deepak's chart and, according to the data given, I get Virgo rising with Jupiter in 10th?? Perhaps other members could cast the chart to confirm this. BTW perhaps we could take Deepak's chart up for study. I had noticed his bhukti lord Sun (in dasa of Jupiter) is conjunct 8th lord Mars (in 8th) along with 10th lord Mercury...8th = upheaval, calamity, change etc.. PS: Here is another chart (Swami Jnanananda) http://webpages.charter.net/rayudu/jnanananda.htm He, with Jupiter in 9th, was the eldest of his family... My eldest Son (Andrew) has lagnesh Jupiter in lagna...although there's a bit of a twist here! I wonder if anyone can see it? In the spirit of impartiality, I do have the chart of a native with Jupiter in 11th who is the eldest in her family. This however can be seen (I believe) by judging both the 2nd house of family and the native's lagna, along with the dasa at birth (KE-SU-MA). See data below. Female (elder in family) 25 Oct 1969 (07:20AM) Fremantle, WA Australia Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ___ - " ravindramani " <ravindramani <jyotish-vidya > Sunday, June 08, 2008 11:16 AM Re: Challenge: Gender Dear Mrs. Wendy, This thumb rule has been tested for a considerable time on charts even before the advent of Internet Jyotish Groups. It has a brilliant logic based on the instructions of the sages in classics. As you are aware, this kind of rule has its own exceptions as that of other rules. There are four exceptions to this as far as my knowledge goes. Thumb rule of such of these are used to know the correctness of the chart at a glance before going into detail. This rule works fine. (Between 60 to 65% of cases.) Rest of the 30 to 35 per cent falls under the exceptions. You will kindly appreciate one should know the exceptions along the rule. It is for the students to experiment them and to come to a conclusion whether to use or discard a rule. See the Jupiter in my chart. Cast the chart of Deepak Sharma (you might have already done) who has given his life events in detail recently in the Group. His Jupiter is in 11th house. He is the eldest to his parents. But in my view, his lagna needs a slight correction. I noted your comments regarding your departed sister. Regards, C.S. Ravindramani. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 PS: Here is another example of a native born eldest in his family. In his chart, Jupiter occupies 8th... Male (eldest in family) Aug 19 1929 (13.25) Edinburgh, Scotland Lagna: Libra 16°58'20 " _ Dear Ravindramani, //There are four exceptions to this as far as my knowledge goes.// When you have the time could you please share with us the four exceptions to this rule. Also can this rule be found in any classic text? I don't recall having seen it; but of course I could have and simply forgot, this is quite possible. I would sincerely like to know the foundation on which this rule stands and would be grateful if you could point me to some reference to this. //Cast the chart of Deepak Sharma (you might have already done) who has given his life events in detail recently in the Group. His Jupiter is in 11th house. He is the eldest to his parents. But in my view, his lagna needs a slight correction.// I have had a quick look at Deepak's chart and, according to the data given, I get Virgo rising with Jupiter in 10th?? Perhaps other members could cast the chart to confirm this. BTW perhaps we could take Deepak's chart up for study. I had noticed his bhukti lord Sun (in dasa of Jupiter) is conjunct 8th lord Mars (in 8th) along with 10th lord Mercury...8th = upheaval, calamity, change etc.. PS: Here is another chart (Swami Jnanananda) http://webpages.charter.net/rayudu/jnanananda.htm He, with Jupiter in 9th, was the eldest of his family... My eldest Son (Andrew) has lagnesh Jupiter in lagna...although there's a bit of a twist here! I wonder if anyone can see it? In the spirit of impartiality, I do have the chart of a native with Jupiter in 11th who is the eldest in her family. This however can be seen (I believe) by judging both the 2nd house of family and the native's lagna, along with the dasa at birth (KE-SU-MA). See data below. Female (elder in family) 25 Oct 1969 (07:20AM) Fremantle, WA Australia Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 Dear Mrs. Wendy, 1. The posted thumb rule by me was in two parts, " if Jupiter is placed in 11th house, the native could be the eldest to his or her parents. Alternatively, he or she could be eldest in his or her sex " . As per one of the messages by the native (Mr. Deepak Sharma), he is the eldest in his own sex. Hence in this chart, the rule applies. >>>>respected Madam wendy and shree VIC and ravindra ramai ji, this is true i am eldest in my brothers and sister, but i had one elder sister who was died in her first few months or may be near by one year age.>>>>> In the instant chart, there is a clear indication of this also. In D- 3, the 11th lord Saturn is placed in 12th house. The 8th lord Mars aspects the Saturn and the Jupiter the karaka for elder sibling. ( I have not ventured to rectify the birth time.) 2. Jupiter represents elders, and elder brothers. 11th house stands for elder siblings. Hence his placement in 11th house does not support the elder siblings to the native. (Another example could be the placement of Jupiter in 5th house does not support progeny. – i.e. the corporal significations.- This rule even does not work in all charts and that there are exceptions to this also.) There could be more valid foundation for the said thumb rule. (a) Dr. Raman writes in his book, How to Judge Horoscopes, there is no karaka for elder brother but he takes Mars as the karaka for elder brother too. For considering Mars as karaka for elder sibling he refers the readers to Shri Vaidyanatha Deekshidar. (b) Prof. P.S. Sastri, in his Notes and Illustrations to " Uttara Kalamrita " translates, in chapter 5, 11th house stands for elder brother and Jupiter as karaka for elder sibling. 3. When I myself, asked the same question in the initial years of studying astrology, " where it is written clearly that Jupiter placed in 11th house does not support the elder siblings " ? The simple answer given to me was " read Parashara and Uttarakalamrita by Kalidasa, thoroughly once again " . Certainly, I can't claim I studied them thoroughly. Hence I put this rule on the charts and look for the exceptions. There could be many more. So far as the exceptions to the thumb rule posted by me is concerned, 1. If there is only one child in a family, the child will be known as a single child. There is no question of elder or younger. 2. If there are two children, one is male and one is female, again this rule does not apply logically because of the second part. 3. The other two exceptions, I am put on oath by the astrologer who told me about the exceptions. Kindly bear with me on this count. Regards, C.S. Ravindramani. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 Dear Ravindramani, //(b) Prof. P.S. Sastri, in his Notes and Illustrations to " Uttara Kalamrita " translates, in chapter 5, 11th house stands for elder brother and Jupiter as karaka for elder sibling.// This is indeed what I've been taught. So, yes! I concur with Prof. P.S. Sastri that 11th holds elder sibling and Jupiter is karaka for same :-) //3. When I myself, asked the same question in the initial years of studying astrology, " where it is written clearly that Jupiter placed in 11th house does not support the elder siblings " ? The simple answer given to me was " read Parashara and Uttarakalamrita by Kalidasa, thoroughly once again " .// Certainly I'm not as well-versed in Uttarakalamrita as Parashara. However I cannot recall any (such) rule in Parashara. I could be wrong of course and will gladly stand corrected if such a rule is located. I have just taken another look at Bhrigu Sutras and find the following here: http://jyotishvidya.com/part2_5.htm Jupiter in the Fifth House: Sutras 24-31-If Jupiter is in the fifth house, the native will be highly intelligent, will have broad eyes, will be a good conversationalist, full of glory, will feed others, love family and in his 18th year become commander of the army by the favour of the king. He will also have a good number of children who will be prosperous. If the lord of the 5th is strong and at the same time in the house of a malefic or his enemy or he is in his sign of debilitation, there will be loss of children or the native will have only one issue. He will be rich but will suffer loss of wealth on account of penalties imposed by the king (Government). If Jupiter is associated with Rahu or Ketu, the native will suffer loss of his children on account of the wrath of Serpent God but this will not happen if Jupiter is aspected by a benefic. OTHER VIEWS Brihat Jataka: The native will be intelligent. Phaldeepika: The native will be intelligent and a minister 120 of the king but will be unhappy on account of want of children. Saravali: The native will be happy, will have a good number of children, will be learned, tolerant, and permanently wealthy. Chamatkar Chintamani: The native will be fond of luxuries. He will be a good orator and a writer with good imagination. He will sometimes acquire wealth through his children. And Here... Jupiter in the Eleventh House Sutras 50-53: If Jupiter is in the eleventh house, the native will be learned, wealthy and will have lot of financial gains. In his 32nd year he will possess horses to ride on (this means he will acquire conveyances) and will have widespread reputation. If he is associated with benefics and malefics he will possess elephants and will have pronounced good luck. If Jupiter is associated with Moon, the native will have effortless financial gains. OTHER VIEWS Brihat Jataka: The native will be prosperous. Phaldeepika: The native will be wealthy, fearless and long lived. He will have few children but many conveyances. Saravali: The native will enjoy enormous financial gains, comforts of conveyances and servants. He will be noble but will have few children and not much of education. Chamatkar Chintamani: The native will possess articles of, gold and silver. He will be intelligent and will maintain his father. He will get five children. He will spend money not on luxuries but for the good of others. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ___ - " ravindramani " <ravindramani <jyotish-vidya > Sunday, June 08, 2008 7:26 PM Re: Challenge: Gender Dear Mrs. Wendy, 1. The posted thumb rule by me was in two parts, " if Jupiter is placed in 11th house, the native could be the eldest to his or her parents. Alternatively, he or she could be eldest in his or her sex " . As per one of the messages by the native (Mr. Deepak Sharma), he is the eldest in his own sex. Hence in this chart, the rule applies. >>>>respected Madam wendy and shree VIC and ravindra ramai ji, this is true i am eldest in my brothers and sister, but i had one elder sister who was died in her first few months or may be near by one year age.>>>>> In the instant chart, there is a clear indication of this also. In D- 3, the 11th lord Saturn is placed in 12th house. The 8th lord Mars aspects the Saturn and the Jupiter the karaka for elder sibling. ( I have not ventured to rectify the birth time.) 2. Jupiter represents elders, and elder brothers. 11th house stands for elder siblings. Hence his placement in 11th house does not support the elder siblings to the native. (Another example could be the placement of Jupiter in 5th house does not support progeny. - i.e. the corporal significations.- This rule even does not work in all charts and that there are exceptions to this also.) There could be more valid foundation for the said thumb rule. (a) Dr. Raman writes in his book, How to Judge Horoscopes, there is no karaka for elder brother but he takes Mars as the karaka for elder brother too. For considering Mars as karaka for elder sibling he refers the readers to Shri Vaidyanatha Deekshidar. (b) Prof. P.S. Sastri, in his Notes and Illustrations to " Uttara Kalamrita " translates, in chapter 5, 11th house stands for elder brother and Jupiter as karaka for elder sibling. 3. When I myself, asked the same question in the initial years of studying astrology, " where it is written clearly that Jupiter placed in 11th house does not support the elder siblings " ? The simple answer given to me was " read Parashara and Uttarakalamrita by Kalidasa, thoroughly once again " . Certainly, I can't claim I studied them thoroughly. Hence I put this rule on the charts and look for the exceptions. There could be many more. So far as the exceptions to the thumb rule posted by me is concerned, 1. If there is only one child in a family, the child will be known as a single child. There is no question of elder or younger. 2. If there are two children, one is male and one is female, again this rule does not apply logically because of the second part. 3. The other two exceptions, I am put on oath by the astrologer who told me about the exceptions. Kindly bear with me on this count. Regards, C.S. Ravindramani. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 PS: Following on from this. I'm aware that the rule (put forward here) refers to Jupiter's potential to destroy the personal significations of the bhava for which he's karaka...is this correct?. Please correct me if I'm in error here. On this premise we would have to (also) assume that Jupiter in 2nd would destroy/harm family, whilst in 9th he would destroy guru/father. Am I correct in assuming this is the thumb-rule? Again from Bhrigu Sutras... Jupiter in the Second House Sutras 7-12: If Jupiter is in the second house the native will be rich and intelligent. What he foretells will come true. In his 16th year he will enjoy financial gains and agricultural prosperity. He will also be very powerful. If Jupiter is in his own sign (Sagittarius or Pisces) or in his sign of exaltation, the native will be very prosperous and wealthy. If Jupiter is associates with a malefic there will be obstacles in educational pursuits and the native will be a thief, liar and will have vulgar speech. If Jupiter is in his sign of debilitation and associated with a malefic, the native will be a drunkard and immoral. He will be a destroyer of his family and will have relations with other people's wives. He will also be childless. OTHER VIEWS Brihat Jataka: The person concerned will be eloquent and sweet tongued. Phaldeepika: The native will be intelligent, handsome and eloquent. He will get good food to eat. Jupiter in the second will improve all the good significations of this house. Saravali: The native will be rich, fond of luxuries, eloquent handsome, sweet tongued and charitable. Chamatkar Chintamani: The native will be fond of poetry. He will be well versed in administrative affairs. He will suffer on account of lack of food. He will be very talkative. He will earn wealth with difficulty and inspite of all his efforts he will be unable to accumulate any wealth. And Here... Jupiter in the Ninth House Sutras 44-45: The native will perform religious and charitable deeds, will take interest in meditation and will be pious and wealthy. He will perform religious ceremonies in his 35th year. His father will be long lived, he will be righteous and will receive respect and honour in many ways. He will give protection to many. Comments-The above Sutras are very logical and to the point Beneficial results have been attributed to Jupiter in the ninth house because as a natural benefic he improves all the good significations of this auspicious house. Still better results would be experienced if Jupiter is in his own sign or in his sign of exaltation. If Jupiter is in one of his own signs, by being lord of 9th in the 9th, he will give rise to a powerful Rajayoga giving name, fame and wealth to the native. If Jupiter is in his sign of exaltation (Cancer), the ascendant will be Scorpio and Jupiter will be in the ninth house as lord of 2nd and 5th, giving rise to an extremely powerful yoga for prosperity and fame. OTHER VIEWS Brihat Jataka: The native will be devout and philosophical. Phaldeepika: The native will be wealthy, blessed with children, famous, anxious to perform religious rites and a minister of the king. Saravali: The native will worship family gods, will be learned, handsome, a minister of the king or commander of the army and a recognised leader. Chamatkar Chintamani: The native will own a palatial mansion. He will be a favourite of the king and devotee of Brahmins. He will be loved by his near relations. ___ Dear Ravindramani, //(b) Prof. P.S. Sastri, in his Notes and Illustrations to " Uttara Kalamrita " translates, in chapter 5, 11th house stands for elder brother and Jupiter as karaka for elder sibling.// This is indeed what I've been taught. So, yes! I concur with Prof. P.S. Sastri that 11th holds elder sibling and Jupiter is karaka for same :-) //3. When I myself, asked the same question in the initial years of studying astrology, " where it is written clearly that Jupiter placed in 11th house does not support the elder siblings " ? The simple answer given to me was " read Parashara and Uttarakalamrita by Kalidasa, thoroughly once again " .// Certainly I'm not as well-versed in Uttarakalamrita as Parashara. However I cannot recall any (such) rule in Parashara. I could be wrong of course and will gladly stand corrected if such a rule is located. I have just taken another look at Bhrigu Sutras and find the following here: http://jyotishvidya.com/part2_5.htm Jupiter in the Fifth House: Sutras 24-31-If Jupiter is in the fifth house, the native will be highly intelligent, will have broad eyes, will be a good conversationalist, full of glory, will feed others, love family and in his 18th year become commander of the army by the favour of the king. He will also have a good number of children who will be prosperous. If the lord of the 5th is strong and at the same time in the house of a malefic or his enemy or he is in his sign of debilitation, there will be loss of children or the native will have only one issue. He will be rich but will suffer loss of wealth on account of penalties imposed by the king (Government). If Jupiter is associated with Rahu or Ketu, the native will suffer loss of his children on account of the wrath of Serpent God but this will not happen if Jupiter is aspected by a benefic. OTHER VIEWS Brihat Jataka: The native will be intelligent. Phaldeepika: The native will be intelligent and a minister 120 of the king but will be unhappy on account of want of children. Saravali: The native will be happy, will have a good number of children, will be learned, tolerant, and permanently wealthy. Chamatkar Chintamani: The native will be fond of luxuries. He will be a good orator and a writer with good imagination. He will sometimes acquire wealth through his children. And Here... Jupiter in the Eleventh House Sutras 50-53: If Jupiter is in the eleventh house, the native will be learned, wealthy and will have lot of financial gains. In his 32nd year he will possess horses to ride on (this means he will acquire conveyances) and will have widespread reputation. If he is associated with benefics and malefics he will possess elephants and will have pronounced good luck. If Jupiter is associated with Moon, the native will have effortless financial gains. OTHER VIEWS Brihat Jataka: The native will be prosperous. Phaldeepika: The native will be wealthy, fearless and long lived. He will have few children but many conveyances. Saravali: The native will enjoy enormous financial gains, comforts of conveyances and servants. He will be noble but will have few children and not much of education. Chamatkar Chintamani: The native will possess articles of, gold and silver. He will be intelligent and will maintain his father. He will get five children. He will spend money not on luxuries but for the good of others. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 Dear Su, What this tells us, once again, is that each (unique) horoscope has to be judged on its own merits. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ___ - " vreality_au " <reality_v <jyotish-vidya > Sunday, June 08, 2008 9:18 PM Re: Challenge: Gender I have data of a native, with Ju [retro/deb] in 5th. Below is some feedback Natal Chart - female July 8, 1937 Time: 12:50:00 pm Time Zone: 7:30:00 (East of GMT) Place: 101 E 42' 00 " , 3 N 10' 00 " Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia //The native is " highly intelligent " // Yes // " will have broad eyes " // not quite sure wht that means exactly, but has nice eyes. //will be a good conversationalist// yes extremely good talker - cant shut her up infact. //full of glory// again not exactly sure wht tht means but shes v spiritual. //will feed others, // absolutely!! Dogs cats humans - anything tht moves!! //love family// hmm...perhaps // and in his 18th year become commander of the army by the favour of the king.// Also no, she got unhappily married at 18. [widowed now] /He will also have a good number of children who will be prosperous.// Yes 7 children who are prosperous enough //If the lord of the 5th is strong and at the same time in the house of a malefic or his enemy or he is in his sign of debilitation, there will be loss of children or the native will have only one issue. // loss of one child tho Lord of the 5th is not in deb. //He will be rich but will suffer loss of wealth on account of penalties imposed by the king (Government). // No not rich - and any wealth she has she gives away! [not to her children tho] //Chamatkar Chintamani: The native will be fond of luxuries./// native seems averse to luxuries //He will be a good orator and a writer with good imagination.// yes on all three counts Su Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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