Predictive astrology.

[Guest guest]

Sanatji Namaste!

I d been out on a run for bread-thank God not on the name of Astrology.

I couldnt find enough time to go thro your explicit details and point by point queries to the astrologers.

Also I could not find time to go thro your blog yet.

 

As you asked Mark I could get, neither the star or satellite (sun & moon)can excert any benefit to the native nor the 5 planets can identify whether the guy is having a girl after marriage or not, are simply superb.

This is quite rational.

What one can say atmost is, the particular time is auspicious or not owing to the rules created by the rishis;again whether the rishis are right since they blonged to the " earth was flat " era.So in all where we ve to come, is to close all astro dhukans and get on to some other work.

But ,alas! what would be the condition of astrologers like your neighbour Pandeyji!!!!!!!

 

I ve a question Sanatji....where would they end up ,those who rob the native on the name of remedies.

Do you believe in karma?

If karma persits what kind of step it would take against those who goes after remedies using Lalkitab or any other means?

Regards

tkp ghopal

On 9/17/08, sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Resp Mark,Thanks for your observation and glad to know that you are using Vedic astrology since last 22 years. >>>> doing astrology over many years and especially Vedic astrology these last 22!<<<<< Do you know that

Ved has nothing to do with predictive astrology? Don't you think that you have been pushed in wrong direction by some cunning astrologer, long back, and you are only believing due to psychological affect or

blind faith?If some thing appears to match, I repeat appears to match >>>> astrology is very easily scientifically verifiable! ……..my eastern chart, do fit me to a tee!<<<<<with your condition then it does not mean that it is scientifically

verifiable.>>>>> after 22 years of doing Jyotish, and especially doing over 7000 people's charts, I have to say: all these people too, " THEIR CHARTS FIT THEM AS WELL! " <<<<<<< Means you are analyzing average one

horoscope per day (22*365 >= 7000). Then you must definitely have some good collection of predictive principle. Will you please intimate at least One or more principle which in your opinion is correct. But remember result must be absolute and not vague or with

psychological mixing. I mean to say that you may intimate any principle by which you can predict that1 any horoscope belongs to Male or Female, because sex has very vital role in the life of some one (through out the world and in all

religion), and it affect whole sequence of event.2 When he will be married or just have sexual relationship. Do planet knows that it is marriage and it is sexual relationship without marriage?3 How many marriages. Because in India we have mostly only one

marriage and one partner for sexual relationship, where as Muslim countries have mostly more then one marriages at a time and western countries may mostly have more then one marriage (one by one) at a time but mostly have many partner for sexual relationship. So how any

planet who is responsible for marriage know and affect as to who may have to lead with one wife, who may with more wives and who may have one by one many wives.4 How many childrens (male or female) and when. How planet

differentiate that a tribal man or osama may have more children then most of the persons of the world.5 About his Education, profession, Finance and ofcourse about his death.Do have any definite principle or you have a set of principles like

1- So and so time is not good or good. Now such predictions are not predictions at all. Because how a time may be bad, when your body is intact, your house is intact, your family is intact, your education is intact. But such sentence can only lead any person to magnify his

problem and may confirm that his time is bad. 2- You are not getting according to your knowledge. Now every person is not satisfied with, what he has. So he may just confirm. This is only psychology. Thus all I repeat all predictions are psychological or if not then

they are randomly correct, which has noting to do with science or ved.>>>> most powerful verifications of astrology is in each day's TRANSITS!<<<<<< is only a jugglery. As you may know that Moon changes

his sign 12 times a month and about 150 times in a year of 365 days. Sun =12 times, Mercury = 36 times, Venus =20 times, Mars = 8 times, Jupiter = 1 time. Thus you have about 230 days with change in sign and some more changes due to retrograde motion. Thus when you have

about 240 changes in 360 days means 2 changes per 3 days then you can very easily link any incident with any transit. But Yes, If you have some logical transit with their affect. Then you may come forward. This reply may also be link with combination of planets (like >>>>>,

Mars and Saturn collided<<<<<< or >>>> Sun moved through Leo where Saturn is right now, and alsocollided with it. <<<<< or >>>>> Venus and Mercury are found in

Virgo.<<<<<<< or >>>>>>, Mars has joined Mercury and Venus in Virgo.<<<<< or >>>> Jupiter is in Sagittarius this year,<<<< etc.>>>>> The weather may shine, rain or snow, but these

different experiences influence each one of us differently..<<<<<< You may know that weather is creation of direct affect of Sun and Moon and there is no involvement of any other planet. Moon has only

gravitational affect by which only Sea is affected in the form of tide. Sun is responsible for creating Heat, which is directly related with weather cycle. But how there such affect can decide my education, marriage, children, death and so on.

>>>>>>>. in 2 weeks watch how you feel as the Moon gets bigger and bigger.<<<<<< So do you think that matter, which can affect, increases due to it's size, which appears bigger only due to light on

the Moon?>>>>>> All kinds of challenges come on a relationship, love, even friendship level when Venus is 'debilitated' in Virgo<<<<<<<. In support of your observation you have be reply as to how Ved or

Western countries decided that Venus is debilitated in Virgo. I have raised many questions related to formulation of basic principles of predictive astrology in my blog " Astrology a science or myth " ( may

refer in file section or 1st msg of the forum). So far (since last 5 years after publication of my books) I am not able to get a single answer from any astrologer from East to West. Because all principles were formulated on primitive knowledge, and detailed procedure is

available in my book. So you have to scientifically or logically answer as to how you think that Venus or any planet is debilitated in a sign, and that concept still hold good.I hope you will come forward with your more pointed reply and may not

take rest in silence zone. As most of the astrologers, when they do not have any logical, scientific answer, then they prefer silence so that their business may not be affected. I have created this forum only with a view so that their business and their clients may not be

affected and they can smoothly run their exploiting business. But when they say that astrology is science or Vedic then I have every right to ask them.I have changed the subject for proper linking and summarizing in

future. Remember nothing is personal and it is academic discussion.Waiting for your commentsYours truly,SanatPS: I am not receiving any reply from Sh. Ghopal ji, Nathani ji, Jagannathan ji, Vijayshankar ji since long. I hope they will come out

with their comments instead of observing silence. They must support there stand logically, scientifically etc.. Otherwise there is no use of interaction and one may continue with his own system of exploitation if it is bread and butter for him. I am waiting for

their replies or I will presume that they have nothing to say in support of their stand and astrology is not more then blind faith for them and they may silently read various msgs.I will like to request other silent members to take part in

interaction and they may join from this msg. it-self. There msg will immediately be entered in the forum without any interference from the moderator or if they have any problem even then they must come out so

that their problem may be sorted out. They may also ask various questions being raised in this forum from their astrologer or in other forums, where they are active to know the hollow knowledge of moderators and astrologers who are continuously advising as if they

know every word of destiny.I will also like to request Dr. Sasikumar Ji as to why " Department of Space " (which was once explored by our sages through ved, puran and came our with some physical structure of the Universe, though it may

now be not acceptable.) is not coming forward to educate our society, which is in the grip of blind faith, created by predictive astrologers, through Doordarshan etc. Because it is also written in our constitution that Govt will develop scientific aptitude in the

society. I hope to get his reply in due course, as he may have busy schedule. I am repeating this as I do not know as to whether he is actively reading the msg. in the forum or not.17-9-8Re: Digest Number 138

Posted by: " markkincaid " markkincaid kincaidmark

Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:23 am (PDT) DearSanat: Thank you very much for your warm welcome. I'd like tosay a few things about my own experiences doing astrology over many yearsand especially Vedic astrology these last 22!

First of all I'dlike to say that astrology is very easily scientifically verifiable!First, within my own self, I've found all the symbolisms ofespecially my eastern chart, do fit me to a tee!

This may beonly a subjective experience but I still find it very remarkable!#2 I'd like to say, now, after 22 years of doing Jyotish, and especiallydoing over 7000 people's charts, I have to say: all these people

too, " THEIR CHARTS FIT THEM AS WELL! " #3 Finally, I'dlike to add; One of the most powerful verifications of astrology isin each day's TRANSITS!Right now the Sun, Moon and planets are

all transiting some where. These movements have very real andrepeatable effects on everyone. However, each personexperiences the transits differently! This reminds me of theweather.The weather may shine, rain or snow, but these

different experiences influence each one of us differently..Ialways suggest to people to watch the stars for 2 or 3 months, focusingvery much upon what the Moon is doing to see how intensely do the

starsaffect YOU!Right now, the Moon just finished the Full Moontime! Each month the Moon waxes and then wanes.Watchnow, over the next weeks as the Moon gets smaller. See, if you don'tfind a direct correlation between how you feel, (the Moon) and how

big theMoon is.Then, in 2 weeks watch how you feel as the Moon getsbigger and bigger.Recently, we've been going through some veryintense transits.About 6 weeks ago, Mars and Saturn collided

or were very close in the sky together.During these times,tension between the Mars doing part of us and the Saturn resting part ofus happened.Many people that I was aware of experienced many

kinds of grief due to this natural happening of the stars!#2Then, the Sun moved through Leo where Saturn is right now, and alsocollided with it. That really was hard on a lot of people!And, finally, #3, recently many planets have been going through

Virgo. This is always a trying time of the year when Sun gets closeto Virgo, such planets as Venus and Mercury are found in Virgo.This is especially difficult because Venus is the most unhappy inVirgo! This is because Venus represents the loving side of us.

And, when in Virgo, represents a great sadness on a heart, feelinglevel.All kinds of challenges come on a relationship, love,even friendship level when Venus is 'debilitated' in Virgo.What is the old ex-pression? " Love knows no reason! "

And, this is why Venus is thought to be very unhappy in Virgo.Therefore, the transit of Venus through Virgo each year is atrying one!Finally, finally. Also, recently, Mars hasjoined Mercury and Venus in Virgo.

This has brought anunusually aggressive fiery element to the Virgo mix which has representeddeep anger and madness.There are all good transits.Jupiter is in Sagittarius this year, and many good things have

happened as a result also!This will be in sharp contrast, whenin Dec. of this year Jupiter moves into Capricorn where it too isunhappy.These always moving stars, (Transits) show us in eachmoment exactly how real, predictable, and yes, scientific astrology

trulyis!Sincerely,Mark KincaidFounder Nature's Astrologywww..com

email me at: markkincaid -- TKP Ghopal32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road,

I Agraharam,SALEM-636 00193666 23444

[Guest guest]

Dear Ghopal ji,

Namaskar,

Thanks for your reply. I know your job requirements hence I can

always wait for your turning up. Though I am little curious about

those active members, who may remain absent for a week or so.

Because it is also our family or you may say friend circle, where we

interact with each other. So absence of any member creates some

anxiety about his well being. OK but you must devote to your job and

take your own time for answering and reading the msgs (written during

your absence to maintain a continuity). We can wait for your valuable

observations.

 

Thanks for your encouraging note about my queries to Mr. Mark. Same

queries I have raised to Sh. Prabhakar ji, and I am waiting any reply

from both. Actually what is happening that we are just looking that

side of astrology which is being shown by these astrologers. Like a

magician where we keep our attention, where he wants. So that we miss

the actual trick. I have spent +35 years on astrology and after that

I could find as to how these astrological principles were formulated

and whether there is some science or logic. But I can now say that it

is all blind faith without any science, logic or ved etc. in view of

modern knowledge. I hope other members will also come out with their

opinion on various issues. They may be in support of astrology or

against me. I have no objection like other forum. I am actually

inviting astrologers to oppose me.

 

Regarding >>>>> What one can say atmost is, the particular time is

auspicious or not owing to the rules created by the rishis;again

whether the rishis are right since they blonged to the " earth was

flat " era.<<<<<<< I will like to say that yes, our rishis were

involved in auspicious or inauspicious time, but this was only

related for performing some Yagya, offering etc. to deities, which

they believes in the form of Sun, Moon and constellations (you can

refer any book where you will find that every constellation is

connected with a deity.). So when Moon happens to be in certain

constellation then it may be good or bad time for yagya etc. For

working out this correct time sage Lagadh wrote vedang jyotish

(Jyotish means astronomy not predictive astrology) and it was

considered as eye because of working out the correct time for

offering etc. Even Ved Vyas ji who was son of Sage Parashar, never

supported predictive principles, which were being formulated by his

father and stated in Mahabharat like Chandal may consult an

astrologer.

 

So we must know as to whether we may follow astrology and continue to

loose our money, self-confidence and creates problem (in the name of

match making or sade saati or mangali and so on) just to run the shop

of >>>> astrologers like your neighbour Pandeyji!!!!!!! >>>>>

 

Regarding >>>>>where would they end up ,those who rob the native on

the name of remedies.<<<<< I can only say that as we are not

bothering for a drunker, who often falls in gutter or persons who

are behind the bar, gambler and so on. We can only advise them to

follow correct path. And our duty towards the society or family is

over. Now it is there mind, decision as to what they want to follow.

In the same we must not bother as to what will happen who are loosing

their money, self confidence etc. or who are robbing the nation, we

can only warn, teach (this is the first time i.e. after publication

of my book, where I have analyzed every principle.). So I am not

like most of the persons who straight way refuse to accept the

astrology without any reason. I am here to analyze each and every

principle with logic, science, history, religion and so on means to

say in which way an astrologer is willing to analyze.

 

>>>>> Do you believe in karma? >>>>>>>Yes I am fully convinced with

Karma. I will like to draw your attention on the word convinced,

because again it is not faith as Krishna advised so I am supporting

some religious saying. I believe that one must improve his knowledge,

improve self confidence with the help of knowledge + experience. Only

then he can solve his day to day problem in all related matter of his

life.

 

I hope in due course you will spare some time to read

blog " Astrology a science or myth " , some SOA______ files in file

section and of course missing msgs due to your busy schedule.

Remember only Work is worship. So continue to improve your work by

improving your knowledge, skill, experience, self confidence and let

>>>>>> your neighbour Pandeyji!!!!!!! <<<<< may also run their shop.

 

>>>>>>> If karma persits what kind of step it would take against

those who goes after remedies using Lalkitab or any other means?

<<<<<<< Because every intelligent person like astrologer or wine

shopkeeper etc has every right to extract money from fools in the era

of unemployment. As you may have seen big showroom of wines and small

vendor who is selling the fruit in streets. So it is up to a person

as to whether he is lured by big showroom of astrologer who is

selling blind faith or small vendor like me who is selling fruits of

knowledge, logic.

I can only hope that members who are convinced with my logics may

continue to teach in their circle or may ask various questions to

their astrologer instead of loosing their money and mental peace.

 

Thanks.

Yours truly,

 

Sanat

 

PS : If silent members are reading these msgs then they may also take

part with their views. Remember interaction is the only way to find

the way and to streamline your views. So I will like to invite every

member for interaction. They can also invite their

astrologer/internet/forum friends to this forum or they may intimate

their email to me on sanatkumar_jain and I will

personally invite them for interaction.

 

2- I am not receiving any reply from Sh. Nathani ji since long,

though he is active on other forums. Though I have a list of active

members who have suddenly stopped their interaction. I can only

presume that they are not able to support their stand, which was

based on blind faith. I hope they may have reading the msgs. I am

waiting their reappearance.

 

3- New member Sh Binode Kriplani wrote a msg. I welcome him in our

forum and I will reply his msg. within a day or so. As I am always

burdened with lot of msg. / mails from various sources and try my

best to reply every msg. / mail.

 

 

 

, " TKP Ghopal "

<astrogopalji wrote:

>

> Sanatji Namaste!

> I d been out on a run for bread-thank God not on the name of

Astrology.

> I couldnt find enough time to go thro your explicit details and

point by

> point queries to the astrologers.

> Also I could not find time to go thro your blog yet.

>

> As you asked Mark I could get, neither the star or satellite

(sun & moon)can

> excert any benefit to the native nor the 5 planets can identify

whether the

> guy is having a girl after marriage or not, are simply superb.

> This is quite rational.

> What one can say atmost is, the particular time is auspicious or

not owing

> to the rules created by the rishis;again whether the rishis are

right since

> they blonged to the " earth was flat " era.

> So in all where we ve to come, is to close all astro dhukans and

get on to

> some other work.

> But ,alas! what would be the condition of astrologers like your

neighbour

> Pandeyji!!!!!!!

>

> I ve a question Sanatji....where would they end up ,those who rob

the native

> on the name of remedies.

> Do you believe in karma?

> If karma persits what kind of step it would take against those who

goes

> after remedies using Lalkitab or any other means?

> Regards

> tkp ghopal

>

> On 9/17/08, sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain wrote:

> >

> > Resp Mark,

> > Thanks for your observation and glad to know that you are using

Vedic

> > astrology since last 22 years. >>>> doing astrology over many

years

> > and especially Vedic astrology these last 22!<<<<< Do you know

that

> > Ved has nothing to do with predictive astrology? Don't you think

that

> > you have been pushed in wrong direction by some cunning

astrologer,

> > long back, and you are only believing due to psychological affect

or

> > blind faith?

> >

> > If some thing appears to match, I repeat appears to match >>>>

> > astrology is very easily scientifically verifiable! ……..my eastern

> > chart, do fit me to a tee!<<<<<

> > with your condition then it does not mean that it is

scientifically

> > verifiable.

> >

> > >>>>> after 22 years of doing Jyotish, and especially doing over

7000

> > people's charts, I have to say: all these people too, " THEIR

CHARTS

> > FIT THEM AS WELL! " <<<<<<< Means you are analyzing average one

> > horoscope per day (22*365 >= 7000). Then you must definitely have

> > some good collection of predictive principle. Will you please

> > intimate at least One or more principle which in your opinion is

> > correct. But remember result must be absolute and not vague or

with

> > psychological mixing. I mean to say that you may intimate any

> > principle by which you can predict that

> >

> > 1 any horoscope belongs to Male or Female, because sex has very

vital

> > role in the life of some one (through out the world and in all

> > religion), and it affect whole sequence of event.

> > 2 When he will be married or just have sexual relationship. Do

planet

> > knows that it is marriage and it is sexual relationship without

> > marriage?

> > 3 How many marriages. Because in India we have mostly only one

> > marriage and one partner for sexual relationship, where as Muslim

> > countries have mostly more then one marriages at a time and

western

> > countries may mostly have more then one marriage (one by one) at a

> > time but mostly have many partner for sexual relationship. So how

any

> > planet who is responsible for marriage know and affect as to who

may

> > have to lead with one wife, who may with more wives and who may

have

> > one by one many wives.

> > 4 How many childrens (male or female) and when. How planet

> > differentiate that a tribal man or osama may have more children

then

> > most of the persons of the world.

> > 5 About his Education, profession, Finance and ofcourse about his

> > death.

> >

> > Do have any definite principle or you have a set of principles

like

> > 1- So and so time is not good or good. Now such predictions are

not

> > predictions at all. Because how a time may be bad, when your body

is

> > intact, your house is intact, your family is intact, your

education

> > is intact. But such sentence can only lead any person to magnify

his

> > problem and may confirm that his time is bad.

> > 2- You are not getting according to your knowledge. Now every

person

> > is not satisfied with, what he has. So he may just confirm. This

is

> > only psychology.

> > Thus all I repeat all predictions are psychological or if not then

> > they are randomly correct, which has noting to do with science or

ved.

> >

> > >>>> most powerful verifications of astrology is in each day's

> > TRANSITS!<<<<<< is only a jugglery. As you may know that Moon

changes

> > his sign 12 times a month and about 150 times in a year of 365

days.

> > Sun =12 times, Mercury = 36 times, Venus =20 times, Mars = 8

times,

> > Jupiter = 1 time. Thus you have about 230 days with change in sign

> > and some more changes due to retrograde motion. Thus when you have

> > about 240 changes in 360 days means 2 changes per 3 days then you

can

> > very easily link any incident with any transit. But Yes, If you

have

> > some logical transit with their affect. Then you may come forward.

> > This reply may also be link with combination of planets (like

>>>>>,

> > Mars and Saturn collided<<<<<< or >>>> Sun moved through Leo where

> > Saturn is right now, and also

> > collided with it. <<<<< or >>>>> Venus and Mercury are found in

> > Virgo.<<<<<<< or >>>>>>, Mars has joined Mercury and Venus in

> > Virgo.<<<<< or >>>> Jupiter is in Sagittarius this year,<<<< etc.

> >

> > >>>>> The weather may shine, rain or snow, but these

> > different experiences influence each one of us differently..<<<<<<

> > You may know that weather is creation of direct affect of Sun and

> > Moon and there is no involvement of any other planet. Moon has

only

> > gravitational affect by which only Sea is affected in the form of

> > tide. Sun is responsible for creating Heat, which is directly

related

> > with weather cycle. But how there such affect can decide my

> > education, marriage, children, death and so on.

> >

> > >>>>>>>. in 2 weeks watch how you feel as the Moon gets bigger and

> > bigger.<<<<<< So do you think that matter, which can affect,

> > increases due to it's size, which appears bigger only due to

light on

> > the Moon?

> >

> > >>>>>> All kinds of challenges come on a relationship, love, even

> > friendship level when Venus is 'debilitated' in Virgo<<<<<<<. In

> > support of your observation you have be reply as to how Ved or

> > Western countries decided that Venus is debilitated in Virgo. I

have

> > raised many questions related to formulation of basic principles

of

> > predictive astrology in my blog " Astrology a science or myth " (

may

> > refer in file section or 1st msg of the forum). So far (since

last 5

> > years after publication of my books) I am not able to get a single

> > answer from any astrologer from East to West. Because all

principles

> > were formulated on primitive knowledge, and detailed procedure is

> > available in my book. So you have to scientifically or logically

> > answer as to how you think that Venus or any planet is

debilitated in

> > a sign, and that concept still hold good.

> >

> > I hope you will come forward with your more pointed reply and may

not

> > take rest in silence zone. As most of the astrologers, when they

do

> > not have any logical, scientific answer, then they prefer silence

so

> > that their business may not be affected. I have created this forum

> > only with a view so that their business and their clients may not

be

> > affected and they can smoothly run their exploiting business. But

> > when they say that astrology is science or Vedic then I have every

> > right to ask them.

> >

> > I have changed the subject for proper linking and summarizing in

> > future.

> >

> > Remember nothing is personal and it is academic discussion.

> >

> > Waiting for your comments

> >

> > Yours truly,

> > Sanat

> >

> > PS: I am not receiving any reply from Sh. Ghopal ji, Nathani ji,

> > Jagannathan ji, Vijayshankar ji since long. I hope they will come

out

> > with their comments instead of observing silence. They must

support

> > there stand logically, scientifically etc.. Otherwise there is no

use

> > of interaction and one may continue with his own system of

> > exploitation if it is bread and butter for him. I am waiting for

> > their replies or I will presume that they have nothing to say in

> > support of their stand and astrology is not more then blind faith

for

> > them and they may silently read various msgs.

> >

> > I will like to request other silent members to take part in

> > interaction and they may join from this msg. it-self. There msg

will

> > immediately be entered in the forum without any interference from

the

> > moderator or if they have any problem even then they must come

out so

> > that their problem may be sorted out. They may also ask various

> > questions being raised in this forum from their astrologer or in

> > other forums, where they are active to know the hollow knowledge

of

> > moderators and astrologers who are continuously advising as if

they

> > know every word of destiny.

> >

> > I will also like to request Dr. Sasikumar Ji as to

why " Department of

> > Space " (which was once explored by our sages through ved, puran

and

> > came our with some physical structure of the Universe, though it

may

> > now be not acceptable.) is not coming forward to educate our

society,

> > which is in the grip of blind faith, created by predictive

> > astrologers, through Doordarshan etc. Because it is also written

in

> > our constitution that Govt will develop scientific aptitude in the

> > society. I hope to get his reply in due course, as he may have

busy

> > schedule. I am repeating this as I do not know as to whether he is

> > actively reading the msg. in the forum or not.

> >

> > 17-9-8

> >

> > Re: Digest Number 138

> > Posted by: " markkincaid<markkincaid%40.com> "

> >

> > markkincaid <markkincaid%40.com>kincaidmark

> > Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:23 am (PDT)

> >

> > Dear

> > Sanat: Thank you very much for your warm welcome. I'd like to

> > say a few things about my own experiences doing astrology over

many

> > years

> > and especially Vedic astrology these last 22!

> >

> > First of all I'd

> > like to say that astrology is very easily scientifically

verifiable!

> >

> > First, within my own self, I've found all the symbolisms of

> > especially my eastern chart, do fit me to a tee!

> >

> > This may be

> > only a subjective experience but I still find it very remarkable!

> >

> > #2 I'd like to say, now, after 22 years of doing Jyotish, and

> > especially

> > doing over 7000 people's charts, I have to say: all these people

> > too, " THEIR CHARTS FIT THEM AS WELL! "

> >

> > #3 Finally, I'd

> > like to add; One of the most powerful verifications of astrology

is

> > in each day's TRANSITS!

> >

> > Right now the Sun, Moon and planets are

> > all transiting some where. These movements have very real and

> > repeatable effects on everyone.

> >

> > However, each person

> > experiences the transits differently! This reminds me of the

> > weather.

> >

> > The weather may shine, rain or snow, but these

> > different experiences influence each one of us differently..

> >

> > I

> > always suggest to people to watch the stars for 2 or 3 months,

> > focusing

> > very much upon what the Moon is doing to see how intensely do the

> > stars

> > affect YOU!

> >

> > Right now, the Moon just finished the Full Moon

> > time! Each month the Moon waxes and then wanes.

> >

> > Watch

> > now, over the next weeks as the Moon gets smaller. See, if you

don't

> > find a direct correlation between how you feel, (the Moon) and how

> > big the

> > Moon is.

> >

> > Then, in 2 weeks watch how you feel as the Moon gets

> > bigger and bigger.

> >

> > Recently, we've been going through some very

> > intense transits.

> >

> > About 6 weeks ago, Mars and Saturn collided

> > or were very close in the sky together.

> >

> > During these times,

> > tension between the Mars doing part of us and the Saturn resting

part

> > of

> > us happened.

> >

> > Many people that I was aware of experienced many

> > kinds of grief due to this natural happening of the stars!

> >

> > #2

> > Then, the Sun moved through Leo where Saturn is right now, and

also

> > collided with it. That really was hard on a lot of people!

> >

> > And, finally, #3, recently many planets have been going through

> > Virgo. This is always a trying time of the year when Sun gets

close

> > to Virgo, such planets as Venus and Mercury are found in Virgo.

> >

> > This is especially difficult because Venus is the most unhappy in

> > Virgo! This is because Venus represents the loving side of us.

> > And, when in Virgo, represents a great sadness on a heart, feeling

> > level.

> >

> > All kinds of challenges come on a relationship, love,

> > even friendship level when Venus is 'debilitated' in Virgo.

> >

> > What is the old ex-pression? " Love knows no reason! "

> >

> > And, this is why Venus is thought to be very unhappy in Virgo.

> >

> > Therefore, the transit of Venus through Virgo each year is a

> > trying one!

> >

> > Finally, finally. Also, recently, Mars has

> > joined Mercury and Venus in Virgo.

> >

> > This has brought an

> > unusually aggressive fiery element to the Virgo mix which has

> > represented

> > deep anger and madness.

> >

> > There are all good transits.

> >

> > Jupiter is in Sagittarius this year, and many good things have

> > happened as a result also!

> >

> > This will be in sharp contrast, when

> > in Dec. of this year Jupiter moves into Capricorn where it too is

> > unhappy.

> >

> > These always moving stars, (Transits) show us in each

> > moment exactly how real, predictable, and yes, scientific

astrology

> > truly

> > is!

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

> > Mark Kincaid

> >

> > Founder Nature's Astrology

> > www..com

> > email me at:

> > markkincaid <markkincaid%40.com>

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> TKP Ghopal

> 32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road,

> I Agraharam,SALEM-636 001

> 93666 23444

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sanat ji and Gopal ji

Certainly astrology is not a blind faith!!! My guru who is just 84 years now has been practising traditional system for the past 57years which is my present age has switched over to KP system 4 d past 35 years aince it was giving him 80% perfect results!! And mind u He has never received a rupee from any of his clients and strictly enjoined me not to take any money but only help people as much as u can in rekieving their distress by indicating the positive time when they would be overcoming the difficulties!!

frankly with our KP, PBP and WPT (Watch predictive Technique) I am able to guide people in resolving their distress through Divine Grace and Direction whether u believe it or not!! This is true. Predictive astrology is possible only with divine direction and Upaasana and not definitely with our human intellegence however it is not possible to explain the intution by which alone the predictions are possible.

Please do not suspect all astrologers as there are many who are doing great service 2 the society in relieving the anxiety of their clients without any expectations from them except well wishing!!

Regards.P.B.PhanindarChartered Accountant99893 9919598662 21340--- On Sat, 9/20/08, sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain wrote:

sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain Re: Predictive astrology. Date: Saturday, September 20, 2008, 11:47 PM

 

 

Dear Ghopal ji,Namaskar,Thanks for your reply. I know your job requirements hence I can always wait for your turning up. Though I am little curious about those active members, who may remain absent for a week or so. Because it is also our family or you may say friend circle, where we interact with each other. So absence of any member creates some anxiety about his well being. OK but you must devote to your job and take your own time for answering and reading the msgs (written during your absence to maintain a continuity). We can wait for your valuable observations.Thanks for your encouraging note about my queries to Mr. Mark. Same queries I have raised to Sh. Prabhakar ji, and I am waiting any reply from both. Actually what is happening that we are just looking that side of astrology which is being shown by these astrologers. Like a magician where we keep our attention, where he

wants. So that we miss the actual trick. I have spent +35 years on astrology and after that I could find as to how these astrological principles were formulated and whether there is some science or logic. But I can now say that it is all blind faith without any science, logic or ved etc. in view of modern knowledge. I hope other members will also come out with their opinion on various issues. They may be in support of astrology or against me. I have no objection like other forum. I am actually inviting astrologers to oppose me.Regarding >>>>> What one can say atmost is, the particular time is auspicious or not owing to the rules created by the rishis;again whether the rishis are right since they blonged to the "earth was flat "era.<<<<<<< I will like to say that yes, our rishis were involved in auspicious or inauspicious time, but this was only related for

performing some Yagya, offering etc. to deities, which they believes in the form of Sun, Moon and constellations (you can refer any book where you will find that every constellation is connected with a deity.). So when Moon happens to be in certain constellation then it may be good or bad time for yagya etc. For working out this correct time sage Lagadh wrote vedang jyotish (Jyotish means astronomy not predictive astrology) and it was considered as eye because of working out the correct time for offering etc. Even Ved Vyas ji who was son of Sage Parashar, never supported predictive principles, which were being formulated by his father and stated in Mahabharat like Chandal may consult an astrologer.So we must know as to whether we may follow astrology and continue to loose our money, self-confidence and creates problem (in the name of match making or sade saati or mangali and so on) just to run

the shop of >>>> astrologers like your neighbour Pandeyji!!!! !!! >>>>>Regarding >>>>>where would they end up ,those who rob the native on the name of remedies.<<< << I can only say that as we are not bothering for a drunker, who often falls in gutter or persons who are behind the bar, gambler and so on. We can only advise them to follow correct path. And our duty towards the society or family is over. Now it is there mind, decision as to what they want to follow. In the same we must not bother as to what will happen who are loosing their money, self confidence etc. or who are robbing the nation, we can only warn, teach (this is the first time i.e. after publication of my book, where I have analyzed every principle.). So I am not like most of the persons who straight way refuse to accept the astrology without any reason. I am here to analyze

each and every principle with logic, science, history, religion and so on means to say in which way an astrologer is willing to analyze. >>>>> Do you believe in karma? >>>>>>>Yes I am fully convinced with Karma. I will like to draw your attention on the word convinced, because again it is not faith as Krishna advised so I am supporting some religious saying. I believe that one must improve his knowledge, improve self confidence with the help of knowledge + experience. Only then he can solve his day to day problem in all related matter of his life. I hope in due course you will spare some time to read blog "Astrology a science or myth", some SOA______ files in file section and of course missing msgs due to your busy schedule. Remember only Work is worship. So continue to improve your work by improving your knowledge, skill, experience, self confidence and

let >>>>>> your neighbour Pandeyji!!!! !!! <<<<< may also run their shop. >>>>>>> If karma persits what kind of step it would take against those who goes after remedies using Lalkitab or any other means?<<<<<<< Because every intelligent person like astrologer or wine shopkeeper etc has every right to extract money from fools in the era of unemployment. As you may have seen big showroom of wines and small vendor who is selling the fruit in streets. So it is up to a person as to whether he is lured by big showroom of astrologer who is selling blind faith or small vendor like me who is selling fruits of knowledge, logic.I can only hope that members who are convinced with my logics may continue to teach in their circle or may ask various questions to their astrologer instead of loosing their money and mental

peace.Thanks.Yours truly,SanatPS : If silent members are reading these msgs then they may also take part with their views. Remember interaction is the only way to find the way and to streamline your views. So I will like to invite every member for interaction. They can also invite their astrologer/internet /forum friends to this forum or they may intimate their email to me on sanatkumar_jain@ rediffmail. com and I will personally invite them for interaction.2- I am not receiving any reply from Sh. Nathani ji since long, though he is active on other forums. Though I have a list of active members who have suddenly stopped their interaction. I can only presume that they are not able to support their stand, which was based on blind faith. I hope they may have reading the msgs. I am waiting their

reappearance.3- New member Sh Binode Kriplani wrote a msg. I welcome him in our forum and I will reply his msg. within a day or so. As I am always burdened with lot of msg. / mails from various sources and try my best to reply every msg. / mail., "TKP Ghopal" <astrogopalji@ ...> wrote:>> Sanatji Namaste!> I d been out on a run for bread-thank God not on the name of Astrology.> I couldnt find enough time to go thro your explicit details and point by> point queries to the astrologers.> Also I could not find time to go thro your blog yet.> > As you asked Mark I could get, neither the star or satellite (sun & moon)can> excert any benefit to the native nor the 5 planets can identify whether the> guy is having

a girl after marriage or not, are simply superb.> This is quite rational.> What one can say atmost is, the particular time is auspicious or not owing> to the rules created by the rishis;again whether the rishis are right since> they blonged to the "earth was flat "era.> So in all where we ve to come, is to close all astro dhukans and get on to> some other work.> But ,alas! what would be the condition of astrologers like your neighbour> Pandeyji!!!! !!!> > I ve a question Sanatji....where would they end up ,those who rob the native> on the name of remedies.> Do you believe in karma?> If karma persits what kind of step it would take against those who goes> after remedies using Lalkitab or any other means?> Regards> tkp ghopal> > On 9/17/08, sanat2221 <sanatkumar_ jain wrote:> >>

> Resp Mark,> > Thanks for your observation and glad to know that you are using Vedic> > astrology since last 22 years. >>>> doing astrology over many years> > and especially Vedic astrology these last 22!<<<<< Do you know that> > Ved has nothing to do with predictive astrology? Don't you think that> > you have been pushed in wrong direction by some cunning astrologer,> > long back, and you are only believing due to psychological affect or> > blind faith?> >> > If some thing appears to match, I repeat appears to match >>>>> > astrology is very easily scientifically verifiable! ……..my eastern> > chart, do fit me to a tee!<<<<<> > with your condition then it does not mean that it is scientifically> > verifiable.> >> >

>>>>> after 22 years of doing Jyotish, and especially doing over 7000> > people's charts, I have to say: all these people too, "THEIR CHARTS> > FIT THEM AS WELL!"<<<<<< < Means you are analyzing average one> > horoscope per day (22*365 >= 7000). Then you must definitely have> > some good collection of predictive principle. Will you please> > intimate at least One or more principle which in your opinion is> > correct. But remember result must be absolute and not vague or with> > psychological mixing. I mean to say that you may intimate any> > principle by which you can predict that> >> > 1 any horoscope belongs to Male or Female, because sex has very vital> > role in the life of some one (through out the world and in all> > religion), and it affect whole sequence of event.>

> 2 When he will be married or just have sexual relationship. Do planet> > knows that it is marriage and it is sexual relationship without> > marriage?> > 3 How many marriages. Because in India we have mostly only one> > marriage and one partner for sexual relationship, where as Muslim> > countries have mostly more then one marriages at a time and western> > countries may mostly have more then one marriage (one by one) at a> > time but mostly have many partner for sexual relationship. So how any> > planet who is responsible for marriage know and affect as to who may> > have to lead with one wife, who may with more wives and who may have> > one by one many wives.> > 4 How many childrens (male or female) and when. How planet> > differentiate that a tribal man or osama may have more children then> >

most of the persons of the world.> > 5 About his Education, profession, Finance and ofcourse about his> > death.> >> > Do have any definite principle or you have a set of principles like> > 1- So and so time is not good or good. Now such predictions are not> > predictions at all. Because how a time may be bad, when your body is> > intact, your house is intact, your family is intact, your education> > is intact. But such sentence can only lead any person to magnify his> > problem and may confirm that his time is bad.> > 2- You are not getting according to your knowledge. Now every person> > is not satisfied with, what he has. So he may just confirm. This is> > only psychology.> > Thus all I repeat all predictions are psychological or if not then> > they are randomly correct, which has

noting to do with science or ved.> >> > >>>> most powerful verifications of astrology is in each day's> > TRANSITS!<<< <<< is only a jugglery. As you may know that Moon changes> > his sign 12 times a month and about 150 times in a year of 365 days.> > Sun =12 times, Mercury = 36 times, Venus =20 times, Mars = 8 times,> > Jupiter = 1 time. Thus you have about 230 days with change in sign> > and some more changes due to retrograde motion. Thus when you have> > about 240 changes in 360 days means 2 changes per 3 days then you can> > very easily link any incident with any transit. But Yes, If you have> > some logical transit with their affect. Then you may come forward.> > This reply may also be link with combination of planets (like >>>>>,> > Mars and Saturn

collided<<<< << or >>>> Sun moved through Leo where> > Saturn is right now, and also> > collided with it. <<<<< or >>>>> Venus and Mercury are found in> > Virgo.<<<<<< < or >>>>>>, Mars has joined Mercury and Venus in> > Virgo.<<<<< or >>>> Jupiter is in Sagittarius this year,<<<< etc.> >> > >>>>> The weather may shine, rain or snow, but these> > different experiences influence each one of us differently. .<<<<<<> > You may know that weather is creation of direct affect of Sun and> > Moon and there is no involvement of any other planet. Moon has only> > gravitational affect by which only Sea is affected in the form of> > tide. Sun is responsible for creating Heat, which is

directly related> > with weather cycle. But how there such affect can decide my> > education, marriage, children, death and so on.> >> > >>>>>>>. in 2 weeks watch how you feel as the Moon gets bigger and> > bigger.<<<<< < So do you think that matter, which can affect,> > increases due to it's size, which appears bigger only due to light on> > the Moon?> >> > >>>>>> All kinds of challenges come on a relationship, love, even> > friendship level when Venus is 'debilitated' in Virgo<<<<<<< . In> > support of your observation you have be reply as to how Ved or> > Western countries decided that Venus is debilitated in Virgo. I have> > raised many questions related to formulation of basic principles of> > predictive astrology in

my blog "Astrology a science or myth" ( may> > refer in file section or 1st msg of the forum). So far (since last 5> > years after publication of my books) I am not able to get a single> > answer from any astrologer from East to West. Because all principles> > were formulated on primitive knowledge, and detailed procedure is> > available in my book. So you have to scientifically or logically> > answer as to how you think that Venus or any planet is debilitated in> > a sign, and that concept still hold good.> >> > I hope you will come forward with your more pointed reply and may not> > take rest in silence zone. As most of the astrologers, when they do> > not have any logical, scientific answer, then they prefer silence so> > that their business may not be affected. I have created this forum> > only

with a view so that their business and their clients may not be> > affected and they can smoothly run their exploiting business. But> > when they say that astrology is science or Vedic then I have every> > right to ask them.> >> > I have changed the subject for proper linking and summarizing in> > future.> >> > Remember nothing is personal and it is academic discussion.> >> > Waiting for your comments> >> > Yours truly,> > Sanat> >> > PS: I am not receiving any reply from Sh. Ghopal ji, Nathani ji,> > Jagannathan ji, Vijayshankar ji since long. I hope they will come out> > with their comments instead of observing silence. They must support> > there stand logically, scientifically etc.. Otherwise there is no use> > of interaction and one may continue

with his own system of> > exploitation if it is bread and butter for him. I am waiting for> > their replies or I will presume that they have nothing to say in> > support of their stand and astrology is not more then blind faith for> > them and they may silently read various msgs.> >> > I will like to request other silent members to take part in> > interaction and they may join from this msg. it-self. There msg will> > immediately be entered in the forum without any interference from the> > moderator or if they have any problem even then they must come out so> > that their problem may be sorted out. They may also ask various> > questions being raised in this forum from their astrologer or in> > other forums, where they are active to know the hollow knowledge of> > moderators and astrologers who are

continuously advising as if they> > know every word of destiny.> >> > I will also like to request Dr. Sasikumar Ji as to why "Department of> > Space" (which was once explored by our sages through ved, puran and> > came our with some physical structure of the Universe, though it may> > now be not acceptable.) is not coming forward to educate our society,> > which is in the grip of blind faith, created by predictive> > astrologers, through Doordarshan etc. Because it is also written in> > our constitution that Govt will develop scientific aptitude in the> > society. I hope to get his reply in due course, as he may have busy> > schedule. I am repeating this as I do not know as to whether he is> > actively reading the msg. in the forum or not.> >> > 17-9-8> >> > Re: Digest

Number 138> > Posted by: "markkincaid@ ...<markkincaid% 40naturesastrolo gy.com>"> >> > markkincaid@ ... <markkincaid% 40naturesastrolo gy.com>kincaidma rk> > Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:23 am (PDT)> >> > Dear> > Sanat: Thank you very much for your warm welcome. I'd like to> > say a few things about my own experiences doing astrology over many> > years> > and especially Vedic astrology these last 22!> >> > First of all I'd> > like to say that astrology is very easily scientifically verifiable!> >> > First, within my own self, I've found all the symbolisms of> > especially my eastern chart, do fit me to a tee!> >> > This may be> > only a subjective experience but I still find it very remarkable!> >> > #2 I'd like to say, now, after 22

years of doing Jyotish, and> > especially> > doing over 7000 people's charts, I have to say: all these people> > too, "THEIR CHARTS FIT THEM AS WELL!"> >> > #3 Finally, I'd> > like to add; One of the most powerful verifications of astrology is> > in each day's TRANSITS!> >> > Right now the Sun, Moon and planets are> > all transiting some where. These movements have very real and> > repeatable effects on everyone.> >> > However, each person> > experiences the transits differently! This reminds me of the> > weather.> >> > The weather may shine, rain or snow, but these> > different experiences influence each one of us differently. .> >> > I> > always suggest to people to watch the stars for 2 or 3 months,> > focusing> > very

much upon what the Moon is doing to see how intensely do the> > stars> > affect YOU!> >> > Right now, the Moon just finished the Full Moon> > time! Each month the Moon waxes and then wanes.> >> > Watch> > now, over the next weeks as the Moon gets smaller. See, if you don't> > find a direct correlation between how you feel, (the Moon) and how> > big the> > Moon is.> >> > Then, in 2 weeks watch how you feel as the Moon gets> > bigger and bigger.> >> > Recently, we've been going through some very> > intense transits.> >> > About 6 weeks ago, Mars and Saturn collided> > or were very close in the sky together.> >> > During these times,> > tension between the Mars doing part of us and the Saturn resting part> >

of> > us happened.> >> > Many people that I was aware of experienced many> > kinds of grief due to this natural happening of the stars!> >> > #2> > Then, the Sun moved through Leo where Saturn is right now, and also> > collided with it. That really was hard on a lot of people!> >> > And, finally, #3, recently many planets have been going through> > Virgo. This is always a trying time of the year when Sun gets close> > to Virgo, such planets as Venus and Mercury are found in Virgo.> >> > This is especially difficult because Venus is the most unhappy in> > Virgo! This is because Venus represents the loving side of us.> > And, when in Virgo, represents a great sadness on a heart, feeling> > level.> >> > All kinds of challenges come on a relationship,

love,> > even friendship level when Venus is 'debilitated' in Virgo.> >> > What is the old ex-pression? "Love knows no reason!"> >> > And, this is why Venus is thought to be very unhappy in Virgo.> >> > Therefore, the transit of Venus through Virgo each year is a> > trying one!> >> > Finally, finally. Also, recently, Mars has> > joined Mercury and Venus in Virgo.> >> > This has brought an> > unusually aggressive fiery element to the Virgo mix which has> > represented> > deep anger and madness.> >> > There are all good transits.> >> > Jupiter is in Sagittarius this year, and many good things have> > happened as a result also!> >> > This will be in sharp contrast, when> > in Dec. of this year Jupiter moves into

Capricorn where it too is> > unhappy.> >> > These always moving stars, (Transits) show us in each> > moment exactly how real, predictable, and yes, scientific astrology> > truly> > is!> >> > Sincerely,> >> > Mark Kincaid> >> > Founder Nature's Astrology> > www.naturesastrolog y.com> > email me at:> > markkincaid@ ... <markkincaid% 40naturesastrolo gy.com>> >> > > >> > > > -- > TKP Ghopal> 32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road,> I Agraharam,SALEM- 636 001> 93666 23444>

[Guest guest]

Shri P. B. Phanindarji,

Namaskar!

A few points from your post are very interesting:

 

<frankly with our KP, PBP and WPT (Watch predictive Technique) I am

able to guide people in resolving their distress through Divine Grace

and Direction whether u believe it or not!!>

 

If I am not mistaken, all these are recent " techniques " as compared to

the hoary past of several thousand years of " traditional " astrology!

Does it mean that all that astrology which Hindu jyotishis were

practicing till recent past was nothing but hogwash?

 

It also means that these " techniques " are neither Vedic nor scientific

but based on the hit and trial method of some new-comers into the

field!

 

Similarly, of late there is a lot of discussion on Lal Kitab, as will

be evident from several posts on this forum. That also is an entirely

different technique from KP and what have you and its followers swear

by those techniques.

 

All these plethora of techniques are really flabbergasting, if not

confusing, for a layman!

 

You have said further

 

<Predictive astrology is possible only with divine direction and

Upaasana and not definitely with our human intellegence however it is

not possible to explain the intution by which alone the predictions

are possible.>

 

It means that divine direction/intuition and predictions are

interdependent! In other words, divine direction cannot work properly

unless predidtive techniques are there and predictive techniques

cannot work either unless divine direction is there!

 

But this is all contrary to Hindu scriptures/ethos! No shastra has

advised that we should utilize divine direction for using predictive

techniques to ameliorate miseries of others, if at all we can do

that! Acting in such a manner puts unnecessary limitations and

fetters even on divine direction and thus negates the sort of Mahavkya

that divine direction is " kartum akartum anyatha kartum samarth " i.e.

" Divine will/direction is all powerful and can make impossible things

possible and vice versa " . It has not put any conditions that it has

to be subjected to any predictive techniques!

Then again, there is very little difference between intuition and

confusion! Very often, when people have their " sun-downs " they have a

lot of intuition--they even feel they are " all powerful almighty " !

 

This is evident also from the innumerable

discourses/interpretations/commentaries on Nostradamus' sayings!

Having been in a stupor and confused---perhaps after having taken an

over-doze of marijuana--- he made some " predictions " . His followers

thought that he was having some intuition and are till date trying to

interpret that confsuion in whatever way suits them---mostly to make a

fast buck!

 

Then as the saying goes, there are no free lunches! If I am powerful

enough to ameliorate someone else's miseries--especially without any

pecuniary gains---and if I do so, it certainly means that I am

spending that much of " divine energy " or " divine grace " or whatever

you call it! But that is what the Patanjala Yogasutra and other

yogashastras are dead against! They say that we must hide our

" sidhis " --if we have any---from others like treasures being kept

hidden from thieves, since it will otherwise drag us towards nothing

but narka!

Thus whichever way we look at it, this predictive business is nothing

but against dharmashastra and also logic, not to speak of science.

All it has done is to have made Hindu community helpess by making it

celebrate all the festivals and muhurtas on wrong days!

Therefore, the earlier we shun such fads, the better.

With regards,

A K Kaul

 

, Phanindar pb

<pbphanindar wrote:

>

Dear Sanat ji and Gopal ji

> Certainly  astrology is not a blind faith!!! My guru who is just 84 Predictive

astrology is possible only with divine direction and

Upaasana and not definitely with our human intellegence however it is

not possible to explain the intution by which alone the predictions

are possible.now has been practising traditional system for the past

57years which is my present age has switched over to KP system 4 d

past 35 years aince it was giving him 80% perfect results!! And mind u

He has never received a rupee from any of his clients and strictly

enjoined me not to take any money but only help people as much as u

can in rekieving their distress by indicating the positive time when

they would be overcoming the difficulties!!

> frankly with our KP, PBP and WPT (Watch predictive Technique) I am

able to guide people in resolving their distress through Divine Grace

and Direction whether u believe it or not!! This is true. Predictive

astrology is possible only with divine direction and Upaasana and not

definitely with our human intellegence however it is not possible to

explain the intution by which alone the predictions are possible.

> Please do not suspect all astrologers as there are many who are

doing great service 2 the society in relieving the anxiety of their

clients without any expectations from them except well wishing!!

> Regards.

>

> P.B.Phanindar

> Chartered Accountant

> 99893 99195

> 98662 21340

>

> --- On Sat, 9/20/08, sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain wrote:

>

> sanat2221 <sanatkumar_jain

> Re: Predictive astrology.

>

> Saturday, September 20, 2008, 11:47 PM

>

Dear Ghopal ji,

> Namaskar,

> Thanks for your reply. I know your job requirements hence I can

> always wait for your turning up. Though I am little curious about

> those active members, who may remain absent for a week or so.

> Because it is also our family or you may say friend circle, where we

> interact with each other. So absence of any member creates some

> anxiety about his well being. OK but you must devote to your job and

> take your own time for answering and reading the msgs (written

during

> your absence to maintain a continuity). We can wait for your

valuable

> observations.

>

> Thanks for your encouraging note about my queries to Mr. Mark. Same

> queries I have raised to Sh. Prabhakar ji, and I am waiting any

reply

> from both. Actually what is happening that we are just looking that

> side of astrology which is being shown by these astrologers. Like a

> magician where we keep our attention, where he wants. So that we

miss

> the actual trick. I have spent +35 years on astrology and after that

> I could find as to how these astrological principles were formulated

> and whether there is some science or logic. But I can now say that

it

> is all blind faith without any science, logic or ved etc. in view of

> modern knowledge. I hope other members will also come out with their

> opinion on various issues. They may be in support of astrology or

> against me. I have no objection like other forum. I am actually

> inviting astrologers to oppose me.

>

> Regarding >>>>> What one can say atmost is, the particular time is

> auspicious or not owing to the rules created by the rishis;again

> whether the rishis are right since they blonged to the " earth was

> flat " era.<<<<<<< I will like to say that yes, our rishis were

> involved in auspicious or inauspicious time, but this was only

> related for performing some Yagya, offering etc. to deities, which

> they believes in the form of Sun, Moon and constellations (you can

> refer any book where you will find that every constellation is

> connected with a deity.). So when Moon happens to be in certain

> constellation then it may be good or bad time for yagya etc. For

> working out this correct time sage Lagadh wrote vedang jyotish

> (Jyotish means astronomy not predictive astrology) and it was

> considered as eye because of working out the correct time for

> offering etc. Even Ved Vyas ji who was son of Sage Parashar, never

> supported predictive principles, which were being formulated by his

> father and stated in Mahabharat like Chandal may consult an

> astrologer.

>

> So we must know as to whether we may follow astrology and continue

to

> loose our money, self-confidence and creates problem (in the name of

> match making or sade saati or mangali and so on) just to run the

shop

> of >>>> astrologers like your neighbour Pandeyji!!!! !!! >>>>>

>

> Regarding >>>>>where would they end up ,those who rob the native on

> the name of remedies.<<< << I can only say that as we are not

> bothering for a drunker, who often falls in gutter or persons who

> are behind the bar, gambler and so on. We can only advise them to

> follow correct path. And our duty towards the society or family is

> over. Now it is there mind, decision as to what they want to follow.

> In the same we must not bother as to what will happen who are

loosing

> their money, self confidence etc. or who are robbing the nation, we

> can only warn, teach (this is the first time i.e. after publication

> of my book, where I have analyzed every principle.). So I am not

> like most of the persons who straight way refuse to accept the

> astrology without any reason. I am here to analyze each and every

> principle with logic, science, history, religion and so on means to

> say in which way an astrologer is willing to analyze.

>

> >>>>> Do you believe in karma? >>>>>>>Yes I am fully convinced with

> Karma. I will like to draw your attention on the word convinced,

> because again it is not faith as Krishna advised so I am supporting

> some religious saying. I believe that one must improve his

knowledge,

> improve self confidence with the help of knowledge + experience.

Only

> then he can solve his day to day problem in all related matter of

his

> life.

>

> I hope in due course you will spare some time to read

> blog " Astrology a science or myth " , some SOA______ files in file

> section and of course missing msgs due to your busy schedule.

> Remember only Work is worship. So continue to improve your work by

> improving your knowledge, skill, experience, self confidence and let

> >>>>>> your neighbour Pandeyji!!!! !!! <<<<< may also run their

shop.

>

> >>>>>>> If karma persits what kind of step it would take against

> those who goes after remedies using Lalkitab or any other means?

> <<<<<<< Because every intelligent person like astrologer or wine

> shopkeeper etc has every right to extract money from fools in the

era

> of unemployment. As you may have seen big showroom of wines and

small

> vendor who is selling the fruit in streets. So it is up to a person

> as to whether he is lured by big showroom of astrologer who is

> selling blind faith or small vendor like me who is selling fruits of

> knowledge, logic.

> I can only hope that members who are convinced with my logics may

> continue to teach in their circle or may ask various questions to

> their astrologer instead of loosing their money and mental peace.

>

> Thanks.

> Yours truly,

>

> Sanat

>

> PS : If silent members are reading these msgs then they may also

take

> part with their views. Remember interaction is the only way to find

> the way and to streamline your views. So I will like to invite every

> member for interaction. They can also invite their

> astrologer/internet /forum friends to this forum or they may

intimate

> their email to me on sanatkumar_jain@ rediffmail. com and I will

> personally invite them for interaction.

>

> 2- I am not receiving any reply from Sh. Nathani ji since long,

> though he is active on other forums. Though I have a list of active

> members who have suddenly stopped their interaction. I can only

> presume that they are not able to support their stand, which was

> based on blind faith. I hope they may have reading the msgs. I am

> waiting their reappearance.

>

> 3- New member Sh Binode Kriplani wrote a msg. I welcome him in our

> forum and I will reply his msg. within a day or so. As I am always

> burdened with lot of msg. / mails from various sources and try my

> best to reply every msg. / mail.

>

> , " TKP Ghopal "

> <astrogopalji@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > Sanatji Namaste!

> > I d been out on a run for bread-thank God not on the name of

> Astrology.

> > I couldnt find enough time to go thro your explicit details and

> point by

> > point queries to the astrologers.

> > Also I could not find time to go thro your blog yet.

> >

> > As you asked Mark I could get, neither the star or satellite

> (sun & moon)can

> > excert any benefit to the native nor the 5 planets can identify

> whether the

> > guy is having a girl after marriage or not, are simply superb.

> > This is quite rational.

> > What one can say atmost is, the particular time is auspicious or

> not owing

> > to the rules created by the rishis;again whether the rishis are

> right since

> > they blonged to the " earth was flat " era.

> > So in all where we ve to come, is to close all astro dhukans and

> get on to

> > some other work.

> > But ,alas! what would be the condition of astrologers like your

> neighbour

> > Pandeyji!!!! !!!

> >

> > I ve a question Sanatji....where would they end up ,those who rob

> the native

> > on the name of remedies.

> > Do you believe in karma?

> > If karma persits what kind of step it would take against those who

> goes

> > after remedies using Lalkitab or any other means?

> > Regards

> > tkp ghopal

> >

> > On 9/17/08, sanat2221 <sanatkumar_ jain@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Resp Mark,

> > > Thanks for your observation and glad to know that you are using

> Vedic

> > > astrology since last 22 years. >>>> doing astrology over many

> years

> > > and especially Vedic astrology these last 22!<<<<< Do you know

> that

> > > Ved has nothing to do with predictive astrology? Don't you think

> that

> > > you have been pushed in wrong direction by some cunning

> astrologer,

> > > long back, and you are only believing due to psychological

affect

> or

> > > blind faith?

> > >

> > > If some thing appears to match, I repeat appears to match >>>>

> > > astrology is very easily scientifically verifiable! ……..my

eastern

> > > chart, do fit me to a tee!<<<<<

> > > with your condition then it does not mean that it is

> scientifically

> > > verifiable.

> > >

> > > >>>>> after 22 years of doing Jyotish, and especially doing over

> 7000

> > > people's charts, I have to say: all these people too, " THEIR

> CHARTS

> > > FIT THEM AS WELL! " <<<<<< < Means you are analyzing average one

> > > horoscope per day (22*365 >= 7000). Then you must definitely

have

> > > some good collection of predictive principle. Will you please

> > > intimate at least One or more principle which in your opinion is

> > > correct. But remember result must be absolute and not vague or

> with

> > > psychological mixing. I mean to say that you may intimate any

> > > principle by which you can predict that

> > >

> > > 1 any horoscope belongs to Male or Female, because sex has very

> vital

> > > role in the life of some one (through out the world and in all

> > > religion), and it affect whole sequence of event.

> > > 2 When he will be married or just have sexual relationship. Do

> planet

> > > knows that it is marriage and it is sexual relationship without

> > > marriage?

> > > 3 How many marriages. Because in India we have mostly only one

> > > marriage and one partner for sexual relationship, where as

Muslim

> > > countries have mostly more then one marriages at a time and

> western

> > > countries may mostly have more then one marriage (one by one) at

a

> > > time but mostly have many partner for sexual relationship. So

how

> any

> > > planet who is responsible for marriage know and affect as to who

> may

> > > have to lead with one wife, who may with more wives and who may

> have

> > > one by one many wives.

> > > 4 How many childrens (male or female) and when. How planet

> > > differentiate that a tribal man or osama may have more children

> then

> > > most of the persons of the world.

> > > 5 About his Education, profession, Finance and ofcourse about

his

> > > death.

> > >

> > > Do have any definite principle or you have a set of principles

> like

> > > 1- So and so time is not good or good. Now such predictions are

> not

> > > predictions at all. Because how a time may be bad, when your

body

> is

> > > intact, your house is intact, your family is intact, your

> education

> > > is intact. But such sentence can only lead any person to magnify

> his

> > > problem and may confirm that his time is bad.

> > > 2- You are not getting according to your knowledge. Now every

> person

> > > is not satisfied with, what he has. So he may just confirm. This

> is

> > > only psychology.

> > > Thus all I repeat all predictions are psychological or if not

then

> > > they are randomly correct, which has noting to do with science

or

> ved.

> > >

> > > >>>> most powerful verifications of astrology is in each day's

> > > TRANSITS!<<< <<< is only a jugglery. As you may know that Moon

> changes

> > > his sign 12 times a month and about 150 times in a year of 365

> days.

> > > Sun =12 times, Mercury = 36 times, Venus =20 times, Mars = 8

> times,

> > > Jupiter = 1 time. Thus you have about 230 days with change in

sign

> > > and some more changes due to retrograde motion. Thus when you

have

> > > about 240 changes in 360 days means 2 changes per 3 days then

you

> can

> > > very easily link any incident with any transit. But Yes, If you

> have

> > > some logical transit with their affect. Then you may come

forward.

> > > This reply may also be link with combination of planets (like

> >>>>>,

> > > Mars and Saturn collided<<<< << or >>>> Sun moved through Leo

where

> > > Saturn is right now, and also

> > > collided with it. <<<<< or >>>>> Venus and Mercury are found in

> > > Virgo.<<<<<< < or >>>>>>, Mars has joined Mercury and Venus in

> > > Virgo.<<<<< or >>>> Jupiter is in Sagittarius this year,<<<<

etc.

> > >

> > > >>>>> The weather may shine, rain or snow, but these

> > > different experiences influence each one of us differently.

..<<<<<<

> > > You may know that weather is creation of direct affect of Sun

and

> > > Moon and there is no involvement of any other planet. Moon has

> only

> > > gravitational affect by which only Sea is affected in the form

of

> > > tide. Sun is responsible for creating Heat, which is directly

> related

> > > with weather cycle. But how there such affect can decide my

> > > education, marriage, children, death and so on.

> > >

> > > >>>>>>>. in 2 weeks watch how you feel as the Moon gets bigger

and

> > > bigger.<<<<< < So do you think that matter, which can affect,

> > > increases due to it's size, which appears bigger only due to

> light on

> > > the Moon?

> > >

> > > >>>>>> All kinds of challenges come on a relationship, love,

even

> > > friendship level when Venus is 'debilitated' in Virgo<<<<<<< .

In

> > > support of your observation you have be reply as to how Ved or

> > > Western countries decided that Venus is debilitated in Virgo. I

> have

> > > raised many questions related to formulation of basic principles

> of

> > > predictive astrology in my blog " Astrology a science or myth " (

> may

> > > refer in file section or 1st msg of the forum). So far (since

> last 5

> > > years after publication of my books) I am not able to get a

single

> > > answer from any astrologer from East to West. Because all

> principles

> > > were formulated on primitive knowledge, and detailed procedure

is

> > > available in my book. So you have to scientifically or logically

> > > answer as to how you think that Venus or any planet is

> debilitated in

> > > a sign, and that concept still hold good.

> > >

> > > I hope you will come forward with your more pointed reply and

may

> not

> > > take rest in silence zone. As most of the astrologers, when they

> do

> > > not have any logical, scientific answer, then they prefer

silence

> so

> > > that their business may not be affected. I have created this

forum

> > > only with a view so that their business and their clients may

not

> be

> > > affected and they can smoothly run their exploiting business.

But

> > > when they say that astrology is science or Vedic then I have

every

> > > right to ask them.

> > >

> > > I have changed the subject for proper linking and summarizing in

> > > future.

> > >

> > > Remember nothing is personal and it is academic discussion.

> > >

> > > Waiting for your comments

> > >

> > > Yours truly,

> > > Sanat

> > >

> > > PS: I am not receiving any reply from Sh. Ghopal ji, Nathani ji,

> > > Jagannathan ji, Vijayshankar ji since long. I hope they will

come

> out

> > > with their comments instead of observing silence. They must

> support

> > > there stand logically, scientifically etc.. Otherwise there is

no

> use

> > > of interaction and one may continue with his own system of

> > > exploitation if it is bread and butter for him. I am waiting for

> > > their replies or I will presume that they have nothing to say in

> > > support of their stand and astrology is not more then blind

faith

> for

> > > them and they may silently read various msgs.

> > >

> > > I will like to request other silent members to take part in

> > > interaction and they may join from this msg. it-self. There msg

> will

> > > immediately be entered in the forum without any interference

from

> the

> > > moderator or if they have any problem even then they must come

> out so

> > > that their problem may be sorted out. They may also ask various

> > > questions being raised in this forum from their astrologer or in

> > > other forums, where they are active to know the hollow knowledge

> of

> > > moderators and astrologers who are continuously advising as if

> they

> > > know every word of destiny.

> > >

> > > I will also like to request Dr. Sasikumar Ji as to

> why " Department of

> > > Space " (which was once explored by our sages through ved, puran

> and

> > > came our with some physical structure of the Universe, though it

> may

> > > now be not acceptable.) is not coming forward to educate our

> society,

> > > which is in the grip of blind faith, created by predictive

> > > astrologers, through Doordarshan etc. Because it is also written

> in

> > > our constitution that Govt will develop scientific aptitude in

the

> > > society. I hope to get his reply in due course, as he may have

> busy

> > > schedule. I am repeating this as I do not know as to whether he

is

> > > actively reading the msg. in the forum or not.

> > >

> > > 17-9-8

> > >

> > > Re: Digest Number 138

> > > Posted by: " markkincaid@ ...<markkincaid% 40naturesastrolo

gy.com> "

> > >

> > > markkincaid@ ... <markkincaid% 40naturesastrolo gy.com>kincaidma

rk

> > > Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:23 am (PDT)

> > >

> > > Dear

> > > Sanat: Thank you very much for your warm welcome. I'd like to

> > > say a few things about my own experiences doing astrology over

> many

> > > years

> > > and especially Vedic astrology these last 22!

> > >

> > > First of all I'd

> > > like to say that astrology is very easily scientifically

> verifiable!

> > >

> > > First, within my own self, I've found all the symbolisms of

> > > especially my eastern chart, do fit me to a tee!

> > >

> > > This may be

> > > only a subjective experience but I still find it very

remarkable!

> > >

> > > #2 I'd like to say, now, after 22 years of doing Jyotish, and

> > > especially

> > > doing over 7000 people's charts, I have to say: all these people

> > > too, " THEIR CHARTS FIT THEM AS WELL! "

> > >

> > > #3 Finally, I'd

> > > like to add; One of the most powerful verifications of astrology

> is

> > > in each day's TRANSITS!

> > >

> > > Right now the Sun, Moon and planets are

> > > all transiting some where. These movements have very real and

> > > repeatable effects on everyone.

> > >

> > > However, each person

> > > experiences the transits differently! This reminds me of the

> > > weather.

> > >

> > > The weather may shine, rain or snow, but these

> > > different experiences influence each one of us differently. .

> > >

> > > I

> > > always suggest to people to watch the stars for 2 or 3 months,

> > > focusing

> > > very much upon what the Moon is doing to see how intensely do

the

> > > stars

> > > affect YOU!

> > >

> > > Right now, the Moon just finished the Full Moon

> > > time! Each month the Moon waxes and then wanes.

> > >

> > > Watch

> > > now, over the next weeks as the Moon gets smaller. See, if you

> don't

> > > find a direct correlation between how you feel, (the Moon) and

how

> > > big the

> > > Moon is.

> > >

> > > Then, in 2 weeks watch how you feel as the Moon gets

> > > bigger and bigger.

> > >

> > > Recently, we've been going through some very

> > > intense transits.

> > >

> > > About 6 weeks ago, Mars and Saturn collided

> > > or were very close in the sky together.

> > >

> > > During these times,

> > > tension between the Mars doing part of us and the Saturn resting

> part

> > > of

> > > us happened.

> > >

> > > Many people that I was aware of experienced many

> > > kinds of grief due to this natural happening of the stars!

> > >

> > > #2

> > > Then, the Sun moved through Leo where Saturn is right now, and

> also

> > > collided with it. That really was hard on a lot of people!

> > >

> > > And, finally, #3, recently many planets have been going through

> > > Virgo. This is always a trying time of the year when Sun gets

> close

> > > to Virgo, such planets as Venus and Mercury are found in Virgo.

> > >

> > > This is especially difficult because Venus is the most unhappy

in

> > > Virgo! This is because Venus represents the loving side of us.

> > > And, when in Virgo, represents a great sadness on a heart,

feeling

> > > level.

> > >

> > > All kinds of challenges come on a relationship, love,

> > > even friendship level when Venus is 'debilitated' in Virgo.

> > >

> > > What is the old ex-pression? " Love knows no reason! "

> > >

> > > And, this is why Venus is thought to be very unhappy in Virgo.

> > >

> > > Therefore, the transit of Venus through Virgo each year is a

> > > trying one!

> > >

> > > Finally, finally. Also, recently, Mars has

> > > joined Mercury and Venus in Virgo.

> > >

> > > This has brought an

> > > unusually aggressive fiery element to the Virgo mix which has

> > > represented

> > > deep anger and madness.

> > >

> > > There are all good transits.

> > >

> > > Jupiter is in Sagittarius this year, and many good things have

> > > happened as a result also!

> > >

> > > This will be in sharp contrast, when

> > > in Dec. of this year Jupiter moves into Capricorn where it too

is

> > > unhappy.

> > >

> > > These always moving stars, (Transits) show us in each

> > > moment exactly how real, predictable, and yes, scientific

> astrology

> > > truly

> > > is!

> > >

> > > Sincerely,

> > >

> > > Mark Kincaid

> > >

> > > Founder Nature's Astrology

> > > www.naturesastrolog y.com

> > > email me at:

> > > markkincaid@ ... <markkincaid% 40naturesastrolo gy.com>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > --

> > TKP Ghopal

> > 32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road,

> > I Agraharam,SALEM- 636 001

> > 93666 23444

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear AKK,

Pl. note that there was no confusion or contrasdiction when I am saying that Devine Direction and intuition are required 4 correct preditions since our anceient seers followed Nimitham and sakunam 4 devine direction and even after direction is observed it would require upasana to interpret correctly since perceptions vary and half shut is seen as half open also!

If u don.t believe in vedic then swarg or narak has no place at all 4 discussion and I dont know whether u r aware of saint Ramanuja who was prepared to go Narak when all the others who heard the secrect mantra aloud at the warning of his guru that THE Mantra should never be pronoumced aloud and if he does he will go to naerak1 Such was the sacrifice of his devine energy 4 he believed every body should be happy even he goes to narak because of his guru.s curse!

My intetion was not to provoke u but just to suggest that ALL astrologers are NOT bad and certainly few who care 4 others distress and drop a tear of sympayhy over the failings of a brother

Regards,P.B.PhanindarChartered Accountant99893 9919598662 21340--- On Mon, 9/29/08, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved wrote:

Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved Re: Predictive astrology. Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 6:24 PM

 

 

Shri P. B. Phanindarji,Namaskar!A few points from your post are very interesting:<frankly with our KP, PBP and WPT (Watch predictive Technique) I am able to guide people in resolving their distress through Divine Grace and Direction whether u believe it or not!!>If I am not mistaken, all these are recent "techniques" as compared to the hoary past of several thousand years of "traditional" astrology!Does it mean that all that astrology which Hindu jyotishis were practicing till recent past was nothing but hogwash?It also means that these "techniques" are neither Vedic nor scientific but based on the hit and trial method of some new-comers into the field!Similarly, of late there is a lot of discussion on Lal Kitab, as will be evident from several posts on this forum. That also is an entirely different technique from KP and what have you and its followers swear by

those techniques.All these plethora of techniques are really flabbergasting, if not confusing, for a layman!You have said further<Predictive astrology is possible only with divine direction and Upaasana and not definitely with our human intellegence however it is not possible to explain the intution by which alone the predictions are possible.>It means that divine direction/intuition and predictions are interdependent! In other words, divine direction cannot work properly unless predidtive techniques are there and predictive techniques cannot work either unless divine direction is there!But this is all contrary to Hindu scriptures/ethos! No shastra has advised that we should utilize divine direction for using predictive techniques to ameliorate miseries of others, if at all we can do that! Acting in such a manner puts unnecessary limitations and fetters even on

divine direction and thus negates the sort of Mahavkya that divine direction is "kartum akartum anyatha kartum samarth" i.e. "Divine will/direction is all powerful and can make impossible things possible and vice versa". It has not put any conditions that it has to be subjected to any predictive techniques! Then again, there is very little difference between intuition and confusion! Very often, when people have their "sun-downs" they have a lot of intuition--they even feel they are "all powerful almighty"! This is evident also from the innumerable discourses/interpre tations/commenta ries on Nostradamus' sayings! Having been in a stupor and confused---perhaps after having taken an over-doze of marijuana--- he made some "predictions" . His followers thought that he was having some intuition and are till date trying to interpret that confsuion in whatever way suits them---mostly to make a fast

buck!Then as the saying goes, there are no free lunches! If I am powerful enough to ameliorate someone else's miseries--especiall y without any pecuniary gains---and if I do so, it certainly means that I am spending that much of "divine energy" or "divine grace" or whatever you call it! But that is what the Patanjala Yogasutra and other yogashastras are dead against! They say that we must hide our "sidhis"--if we have any---from others like treasures being kept hidden from thieves, since it will otherwise drag us towards nothing but narka!Thus whichever way we look at it, this predictive business is nothing but against dharmashastra and also logic, not to speak of science.All it has done is to have made Hindu community helpess by making it celebrate all the festivals and muhurtas on wrong days!Therefore, the earlier we shun such fads, the better.With regards,A K Kaul, Phanindar pb <pbphanindar@ ...> wrote:>Dear Sanat ji and Gopal ji> Certainly astrology is not a blind faith!!! My guru who is just 84 Predictive astrology is possible only with divine direction and Upaasana and not definitely with our human intellegence however it is not possible to explain the intution by which alone the predictions are possible.now has been practising traditional system for the past 57years which is my present age has switched over to KP system 4 d past 35 years aince it was giving him 80% perfect results!! And mind u He has never received a rupee from any of his clients and strictly enjoined me not to take any money but only help people as much as u can in rekieving their distress by indicating the positive time when they would be overcoming the

difficulties! ! > frankly with our KP, PBP and WPT (Watch predictive Technique) I am able to guide people in resolving their distress through Divine Grace and Direction whether u believe it or not!! This is true. Predictive astrology is possible only with divine direction and Upaasana and not definitely with our human intellegence however it is not possible to explain the intution by which alone the predictions are possible.> Please do not suspect all astrologers as there are many who are doing great service 2 the society in relieving the anxiety of their clients without any expectations from them except well wishing!!> Regards.> > P.B.Phanindar> Chartered Accountant> 99893 99195> 98662 21340> > --- On Sat, 9/20/08, sanat2221 <sanatkumar_ jain wrote:> > sanat2221 <sanatkumar_ jain> Subject:

Re: Predictive astrology.> > Saturday, September 20, 2008, 11:47 PM> > > > > > > > Dear Ghopal ji,> Namaskar,> Thanks for your reply. I know your job requirements hence I can > always wait for your turning up. Though I am little curious about > those active members, who may remain absent for a week or so. > Because it is also our family or you may say friend circle, where we > interact with each other. So absence of any member creates some > anxiety about his well being. OK but you must devote to your job and > take your own time for answering and reading the msgs (written during > your absence to maintain a continuity). We can wait for your valuable >

observations.> > Thanks for your encouraging note about my queries to Mr. Mark. Same > queries I have raised to Sh. Prabhakar ji, and I am waiting any reply > from both. Actually what is happening that we are just looking that > side of astrology which is being shown by these astrologers. Like a > magician where we keep our attention, where he wants. So that we miss > the actual trick. I have spent +35 years on astrology and after that > I could find as to how these astrological principles were formulated > and whether there is some science or logic. But I can now say that it > is all blind faith without any science, logic or ved etc. in view of > modern knowledge. I hope other members will also come out with their > opinion on various issues. They may be in support of astrology or > against me. I have no objection like other forum. I am actually

> inviting astrologers to oppose me.> > Regarding >>>>> What one can say atmost is, the particular time is > auspicious or not owing to the rules created by the rishis;again > whether the rishis are right since they blonged to the "earth was > flat "era.<<<<<<< I will like to say that yes, our rishis were > involved in auspicious or inauspicious time, but this was only > related for performing some Yagya, offering etc. to deities, which > they believes in the form of Sun, Moon and constellations (you can > refer any book where you will find that every constellation is > connected with a deity.). So when Moon happens to be in certain > constellation then it may be good or bad time for yagya etc. For > working out this correct time sage Lagadh wrote vedang jyotish > (Jyotish means astronomy not predictive astrology) and it

was > considered as eye because of working out the correct time for > offering etc. Even Ved Vyas ji who was son of Sage Parashar, never > supported predictive principles, which were being formulated by his > father and stated in Mahabharat like Chandal may consult an > astrologer.> > So we must know as to whether we may follow astrology and continue to > loose our money, self-confidence and creates problem (in the name of > match making or sade saati or mangali and so on) just to run the shop > of >>>> astrologers like your neighbour Pandeyji!!!! !!! >>>>>> > Regarding >>>>>where would they end up ,those who rob the native on > the name of remedies.<<< << I can only say that as we are not > bothering for a drunker, who often falls in gutter or persons who > are behind the bar, gambler

and so on. We can only advise them to > follow correct path. And our duty towards the society or family is > over. Now it is there mind, decision as to what they want to follow. > In the same we must not bother as to what will happen who are loosing > their money, self confidence etc. or who are robbing the nation, we > can only warn, teach (this is the first time i.e. after publication > of my book, where I have analyzed every principle.). So I am not > like most of the persons who straight way refuse to accept the > astrology without any reason. I am here to analyze each and every > principle with logic, science, history, religion and so on means to > say in which way an astrologer is willing to analyze. > > >>>>> Do you believe in karma? >>>>>>>Yes I am fully convinced with > Karma. I will like to draw your attention on

the word convinced, > because again it is not faith as Krishna advised so I am supporting > some religious saying. I believe that one must improve his knowledge, > improve self confidence with the help of knowledge + experience. Only > then he can solve his day to day problem in all related matter of his > life. > > I hope in due course you will spare some time to read > blog "Astrology a science or myth", some SOA______ files in file > section and of course missing msgs due to your busy schedule. > Remember only Work is worship. So continue to improve your work by > improving your knowledge, skill, experience, self confidence and let > >>>>>> your neighbour Pandeyji!!!! !!! <<<<< may also run their shop. > > >>>>>>> If karma persits what kind of step it would take against > those

who goes after remedies using Lalkitab or any other means?> <<<<<<< Because every intelligent person like astrologer or wine > shopkeeper etc has every right to extract money from fools in the era > of unemployment. As you may have seen big showroom of wines and small > vendor who is selling the fruit in streets. So it is up to a person > as to whether he is lured by big showroom of astrologer who is > selling blind faith or small vendor like me who is selling fruits of > knowledge, logic.> I can only hope that members who are convinced with my logics may > continue to teach in their circle or may ask various questions to > their astrologer instead of loosing their money and mental peace.> > Thanks.> Yours truly,> > Sanat> > PS : If silent members are reading these msgs then they may also take >

part with their views. Remember interaction is the only way to find > the way and to streamline your views. So I will like to invite every > member for interaction. They can also invite their > astrologer/internet /forum friends to this forum or they may intimate > their email to me on sanatkumar_jain@ rediffmail. com and I will > personally invite them for interaction.> > 2- I am not receiving any reply from Sh. Nathani ji since long, > though he is active on other forums. Though I have a list of active > members who have suddenly stopped their interaction. I can only > presume that they are not able to support their stand, which was > based on blind faith. I hope they may have reading the msgs. I am > waiting their reappearance.> > 3- New member Sh Binode Kriplani wrote a msg. I welcome him in our > forum and I will reply his msg. within a day

or so. As I am always > burdened with lot of msg. / mails from various sources and try my > best to reply every msg. / mail.> > , "TKP Ghopal" > <astrogopalji@ ...> wrote:> >> > Sanatji Namaste!> > I d been out on a run for bread-thank God not on the name of > Astrology.> > I couldnt find enough time to go thro your explicit details and > point by> > point queries to the astrologers.> > Also I could not find time to go thro your blog yet.> > > > As you asked Mark I could get, neither the star or satellite > (sun & moon)can> > excert any benefit to the native nor the 5 planets can identify > whether the> > guy is having a girl after marriage or not, are simply superb.> > This is quite rational.> > What one can say atmost is,

the particular time is auspicious or > not owing> > to the rules created by the rishis;again whether the rishis are > right since> > they blonged to the "earth was flat "era.> > So in all where we ve to come, is to close all astro dhukans and > get on to> > some other work.> > But ,alas! what would be the condition of astrologers like your > neighbour> > Pandeyji!!!! !!!> > > > I ve a question Sanatji....where would they end up ,those who rob > the native> > on the name of remedies.> > Do you believe in karma?> > If karma persits what kind of step it would take against those who > goes> > after remedies using Lalkitab or any other means?> > Regards> > tkp ghopal> > > > On 9/17/08, sanat2221 <sanatkumar_ jain@> wrote:> > >> >

> Resp Mark,> > > Thanks for your observation and glad to know that you are using > Vedic> > > astrology since last 22 years. >>>> doing astrology over many > years> > > and especially Vedic astrology these last 22!<<<<< Do you know > that> > > Ved has nothing to do with predictive astrology? Don't you think > that> > > you have been pushed in wrong direction by some cunning > astrologer,> > > long back, and you are only believing due to psychological affect > or> > > blind faith?> > >> > > If some thing appears to match, I repeat appears to match >>>>> > > astrology is very easily scientifically verifiable! ……..my eastern> > > chart, do fit me to a tee!<<<<<> > > with your condition then it

does not mean that it is > scientifically> > > verifiable.> > >> > > >>>>> after 22 years of doing Jyotish, and especially doing over > 7000> > > people's charts, I have to say: all these people too, "THEIR > CHARTS> > > FIT THEM AS WELL!"<<<<<< < Means you are analyzing average one> > > horoscope per day (22*365 >= 7000). Then you must definitely have> > > some good collection of predictive principle. Will you please> > > intimate at least One or more principle which in your opinion is> > > correct. But remember result must be absolute and not vague or > with> > > psychological mixing. I mean to say that you may intimate any> > > principle by which you can predict that> > >> > > 1 any horoscope belongs to Male or

Female, because sex has very > vital> > > role in the life of some one (through out the world and in all> > > religion), and it affect whole sequence of event.> > > 2 When he will be married or just have sexual relationship. Do > planet> > > knows that it is marriage and it is sexual relationship without> > > marriage?> > > 3 How many marriages. Because in India we have mostly only one> > > marriage and one partner for sexual relationship, where as Muslim> > > countries have mostly more then one marriages at a time and > western> > > countries may mostly have more then one marriage (one by one) at a> > > time but mostly have many partner for sexual relationship. So how > any> > > planet who is responsible for marriage know and affect as to who > may> > >

have to lead with one wife, who may with more wives and who may > have> > > one by one many wives.> > > 4 How many childrens (male or female) and when. How planet> > > differentiate that a tribal man or osama may have more children > then> > > most of the persons of the world.> > > 5 About his Education, profession, Finance and ofcourse about his> > > death.> > >> > > Do have any definite principle or you have a set of principles > like> > > 1- So and so time is not good or good. Now such predictions are > not> > > predictions at all. Because how a time may be bad, when your body > is> > > intact, your house is intact, your family is intact, your > education> > > is intact. But such sentence can only lead any person to magnify > his>

> > problem and may confirm that his time is bad.> > > 2- You are not getting according to your knowledge. Now every > person> > > is not satisfied with, what he has. So he may just confirm. This > is> > > only psychology.> > > Thus all I repeat all predictions are psychological or if not then> > > they are randomly correct, which has noting to do with science or > ved.> > >> > > >>>> most powerful verifications of astrology is in each day's> > > TRANSITS!<<< <<< is only a jugglery. As you may know that Moon > changes> > > his sign 12 times a month and about 150 times in a year of 365 > days.> > > Sun =12 times, Mercury = 36 times, Venus =20 times, Mars = 8 > times,> > > Jupiter = 1 time. Thus you have about 230 days with change

in sign> > > and some more changes due to retrograde motion. Thus when you have> > > about 240 changes in 360 days means 2 changes per 3 days then you > can> > > very easily link any incident with any transit. But Yes, If you > have> > > some logical transit with their affect. Then you may come forward.> > > This reply may also be link with combination of planets (like > >>>>>,> > > Mars and Saturn collided<<<< << or >>>> Sun moved through Leo where> > > Saturn is right now, and also> > > collided with it. <<<<< or >>>>> Venus and Mercury are found in> > > Virgo.<<<<<< < or >>>>>>, Mars has joined Mercury and Venus in> > > Virgo.<<<<< or >>>>

Jupiter is in Sagittarius this year,<<<< etc.> > >> > > >>>>> The weather may shine, rain or snow, but these> > > different experiences influence each one of us differently. .<<<<<<> > > You may know that weather is creation of direct affect of Sun and> > > Moon and there is no involvement of any other planet. Moon has > only> > > gravitational affect by which only Sea is affected in the form of> > > tide. Sun is responsible for creating Heat, which is directly > related> > > with weather cycle. But how there such affect can decide my> > > education, marriage, children, death and so on.> > >> > > >>>>>>>. in 2 weeks watch how you feel as the Moon gets bigger and> > > bigger.<<<<< < So

do you think that matter, which can affect,> > > increases due to it's size, which appears bigger only due to > light on> > > the Moon?> > >> > > >>>>>> All kinds of challenges come on a relationship, love, even> > > friendship level when Venus is 'debilitated' in Virgo<<<<<<< . In> > > support of your observation you have be reply as to how Ved or> > > Western countries decided that Venus is debilitated in Virgo. I > have> > > raised many questions related to formulation of basic principles > of> > > predictive astrology in my blog "Astrology a science or myth" ( > may> > > refer in file section or 1st msg of the forum). So far (since > last 5> > > years after publication of my books) I am not able to get a single> >

> answer from any astrologer from East to West. Because all > principles> > > were formulated on primitive knowledge, and detailed procedure is> > > available in my book. So you have to scientifically or logically> > > answer as to how you think that Venus or any planet is > debilitated in> > > a sign, and that concept still hold good.> > >> > > I hope you will come forward with your more pointed reply and may > not> > > take rest in silence zone. As most of the astrologers, when they > do> > > not have any logical, scientific answer, then they prefer silence > so> > > that their business may not be affected. I have created this forum> > > only with a view so that their business and their clients may not > be> > > affected and they can smoothly run

their exploiting business. But> > > when they say that astrology is science or Vedic then I have every> > > right to ask them.> > >> > > I have changed the subject for proper linking and summarizing in> > > future.> > >> > > Remember nothing is personal and it is academic discussion.> > >> > > Waiting for your comments> > >> > > Yours truly,> > > Sanat> > >> > > PS: I am not receiving any reply from Sh. Ghopal ji, Nathani ji,> > > Jagannathan ji, Vijayshankar ji since long. I hope they will come > out> > > with their comments instead of observing silence. They must > support> > > there stand logically, scientifically etc.. Otherwise there is no > use> > > of interaction and one may

continue with his own system of> > > exploitation if it is bread and butter for him. I am waiting for> > > their replies or I will presume that they have nothing to say in> > > support of their stand and astrology is not more then blind faith > for> > > them and they may silently read various msgs.> > >> > > I will like to request other silent members to take part in> > > interaction and they may join from this msg. it-self. There msg > will> > > immediately be entered in the forum without any interference from > the> > > moderator or if they have any problem even then they must come > out so> > > that their problem may be sorted out. They may also ask various> > > questions being raised in this forum from their astrologer or in> > > other forums, where they are

active to know the hollow knowledge > of> > > moderators and astrologers who are continuously advising as if > they> > > know every word of destiny.> > >> > > I will also like to request Dr. Sasikumar Ji as to > why "Department of> > > Space" (which was once explored by our sages through ved, puran > and> > > came our with some physical structure of the Universe, though it > may> > > now be not acceptable.) is not coming forward to educate our > society,> > > which is in the grip of blind faith, created by predictive> > > astrologers, through Doordarshan etc. Because it is also written > in> > > our constitution that Govt will develop scientific aptitude in the> > > society. I hope to get his reply in due course, as he may have > busy> > >

schedule. I am repeating this as I do not know as to whether he is> > > actively reading the msg. in the forum or not.> > >> > > 17-9-8> > >> > > Re: Digest Number 138> > > Posted by: "markkincaid@ ...<markkincaid% 40naturesastrolo gy.com>"> > >> > > markkincaid@ ... <markkincaid% 40naturesastrolo gy.com>kincaidma rk> > > Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:23 am (PDT)> > >> > > Dear> > > Sanat: Thank you very much for your warm welcome. I'd like to> > > say a few things about my own experiences doing astrology over > many> > > years> > > and especially Vedic astrology these last 22!> > >> > > First of all I'd> > > like to say that astrology is very easily scientifically > verifiable!> >

>> > > First, within my own self, I've found all the symbolisms of> > > especially my eastern chart, do fit me to a tee!> > >> > > This may be> > > only a subjective experience but I still find it very remarkable!> > >> > > #2 I'd like to say, now, after 22 years of doing Jyotish, and> > > especially> > > doing over 7000 people's charts, I have to say: all these people> > > too, "THEIR CHARTS FIT THEM AS WELL!"> > >> > > #3 Finally, I'd> > > like to add; One of the most powerful verifications of astrology > is> > > in each day's TRANSITS!> > >> > > Right now the Sun, Moon and planets are> > > all transiting some where. These movements have very real and> > > repeatable effects on everyone.> >

>> > > However, each person> > > experiences the transits differently! This reminds me of the> > > weather.> > >> > > The weather may shine, rain or snow, but these> > > different experiences influence each one of us differently. .> > >> > > I> > > always suggest to people to watch the stars for 2 or 3 months,> > > focusing> > > very much upon what the Moon is doing to see how intensely do the> > > stars> > > affect YOU!> > >> > > Right now, the Moon just finished the Full Moon> > > time! Each month the Moon waxes and then wanes.> > >> > > Watch> > > now, over the next weeks as the Moon gets smaller. See, if you > don't> > > find a direct correlation between how you feel, (the Moon)

and how> > > big the> > > Moon is.> > >> > > Then, in 2 weeks watch how you feel as the Moon gets> > > bigger and bigger.> > >> > > Recently, we've been going through some very> > > intense transits.> > >> > > About 6 weeks ago, Mars and Saturn collided> > > or were very close in the sky together.> > >> > > During these times,> > > tension between the Mars doing part of us and the Saturn resting > part> > > of> > > us happened.> > >> > > Many people that I was aware of experienced many> > > kinds of grief due to this natural happening of the stars!> > >> > > #2> > > Then, the Sun moved through Leo where Saturn is right now, and > also> > >

collided with it. That really was hard on a lot of people!> > >> > > And, finally, #3, recently many planets have been going through> > > Virgo. This is always a trying time of the year when Sun gets > close> > > to Virgo, such planets as Venus and Mercury are found in Virgo.> > >> > > This is especially difficult because Venus is the most unhappy in> > > Virgo! This is because Venus represents the loving side of us.> > > And, when in Virgo, represents a great sadness on a heart, feeling> > > level.> > >> > > All kinds of challenges come on a relationship, love,> > > even friendship level when Venus is 'debilitated' in Virgo.> > >> > > What is the old ex-pression? "Love knows no reason!"> > >> > > And, this is why Venus is thought to

be very unhappy in Virgo.> > >> > > Therefore, the transit of Venus through Virgo each year is a> > > trying one!> > >> > > Finally, finally. Also, recently, Mars has> > > joined Mercury and Venus in Virgo.> > >> > > This has brought an> > > unusually aggressive fiery element to the Virgo mix which has> > > represented> > > deep anger and madness.> > >> > > There are all good transits.> > >> > > Jupiter is in Sagittarius this year, and many good things have> > > happened as a result also!> > >> > > This will be in sharp contrast, when> > > in Dec. of this year Jupiter moves into Capricorn where it too is> > > unhappy.> > >> > > These always moving stars, (Transits)

show us in each> > > moment exactly how real, predictable, and yes, scientific > astrology> > > truly> > > is!> > >> > > Sincerely,> > >> > > Mark Kincaid> > >> > > Founder Nature's Astrology> > > www.naturesastrolog y.com> > > email me at:> > > markkincaid@ ... <markkincaid% 40naturesastrolo gy.com>> > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > -- > > TKP Ghopal> > 32.2/40 Rajaratnam St.,Riverside Road,> > I Agraharam,SALEM- 636 001> > 93666 23444> >>