Upayagers or Astrologers ?

June 7, 2009

Dear Nirmal,> In my opinion, Astrologer cannot prescribe the remedieal measure untill or unless he knows about the occurance of forthcoming event. <Very well spoken! Actually this is precisely my point as well. In order to prescribe an Upaya against a future event we need to have at least some idea about the nature of that event. Further, if no Tewa Darusthi has been made, how can the astrologer be sure this is even the chart of that person. In that case the astrologer cannot possibly know the occurance a/nature of forthcoming events, and any thought of giving remedial measures becomes an absurdity in such a case.>In my opinion, It is unnecessary for a native to know his fate,unless he has the power to alter it.<Here I beg to differ. In some cases the client may be running some bad period on his job or in his marriage and wants to know when this bad situation will change. Also sometimes it is relevant for the client to know how long time a good period will last. The client may also like to know what year would be likely and auspicious to get married, to get a child, to start a new business, to construct a new house, to take a foreign travel, to get promoted, to have unexpected expences, to gain wealth, to repay debts, have a loan in the bank and so many other thing, which is actually clearly described in Lal Kitab. The client may or may not be able to alter his fate about these everyday things, but shouldn't he at least be given an idea about the general trends regarding such things perhaps in this year and the next year? Surely it is no big deal, and we have so much relevant guidance to offer. Lal Kitab is so completely pregnant with relevant guidance and sound astrological advice which is so very useful for the clients. Actually, I normally tell my clients to ask question about what they are interested to know about, and guided by these questions a explain and guide them about the trends that I am able to see. Best wishes,Finn , Nirmal Kumar Bhardwaj <nirbhar wrote:>> Respected Finn ,//Are we becoming so arrogant against astrology that we no> longer care about giving predictions about the future? Did Pt. Roop Chand> Joshi ever say anything against giving predictions about the future? (Except> of course that predictions should be given with due caution and all the> necessary ethical consideration, etc. etc.). Are we somehow forgetting what> it means to be astrologers? Are we developing into Upayagers rather then> Astrologers?//> In my opinion, Astrologer cannot prescribe the remedieal measure untill or> unless he knows about the occurance of forthcoming event. That means He know> the probable occurance of an event Bad or Good. Now this is upto the> astrologer to tell or not , this forthcoming event to Native. Lalkitab> Forbids doing this to astrologer because this will create an unnecessary> doubts among the natives in case of wrong interpretition. That is why the> Lalkitab astrologer shirks of telling future or predictions.> > Let us see the other case also. Lalkitab astrologers do the correction of> Kundli by asking queries about timing of few past incidents. Why Teva> Durusti is required. Even If you note down the timing of birth up to nano> seconds the teva durusti is required. That means some forces are there which> can alter the timing of an event or may force the event not to occur.> Where the prediction stands?> Lal kitab iterates that there are two states of planet. Firm or doubtful.> The firm state of planet cannot be changed by an ordinary astrologer. It can> be changed by few Godly persons,but even then it will be Tit for tat or we> can say Exchange of results. Lalkitab says the Doubtful state have all the> remedial measures. means we can alter the timing of event by performing> remedial measures.> Thus the occurance of an event can be altered or ceased.> When a Child takes Birth he brings with him the Treasures of his previous> birth given to him by God(Kudrat Ke Bhejey huye Khazaney). Or we can say> that every person have some sort of Gaibi Madad(God Grace) with him. With> this grace many a times the remedial measures were got performed by the> person with this God Grace. In these cases The prediction Falls flat.> In other case also If a person performs a remedial measure at a correct> time, the bad event can be altered or ceased. In this case the prediction> also falls flat.> A Lalkitab astrologer , Though knows the future,but do not indulge himself> in future telling system. He, normaly forewarn the native about the bad> period and prescribe few remedial measure for the coming year or months.> What will astrologer gain by telling future to the native. Can native alter> his fate.> In my opinion, It is unnecessary for a native to know his fate,unless he has> the power to alter it. I dont think Lalkitab Astrologers forget the guidance> given to them by Lalkitab.> > The word 'UPAYAGERS" is a good invented word and suited for astrologers.> Regards> Nirmal> > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 2:17 AM, Finn Wandahl finn.wandahl wrote:> > >> >> > Dear Members,> >> > The discussion going on at the moment is very interesting to follow. The> > importance of Tewa Darusthi is being emphasized, which is always very good,> > since Lal Kitab is an Ascendant-based kind of astrology. I have been able to> > notice bad examples of Lal Kitab astrologers giving out Upayas to people> > without doing any kind of Tewa Darusthi. This means these ignorant> > astrologers cannot possibly be sure if the chart is correctly calculated or> > not.> >> > As a matter of fact this is not the first time a problem like this have> > been seen in India. Around the 7th century AD the great> > astronomer/astrologer Varaha Mihira wrote that *a miscalculation of an> > astrologer is as sinful as the murder of a Brahmin**. *Actually, I think> > this proves that there was astrologers who was indiscriminately using wrong> > chart even at the time of Varaha Mihira. Otherwise he would never have given> > such a strong statement.> >> > My personal opinion is that any astrologer who is using an Ascendant-based> > kind of astrology without verifying whether or not the Ascendant is correct> > is nothing but a big charlatan. However, this goes on every day and it> > surely gives a bad name to Lal Kitab, when the charlatans belong to this> > category of astrologers. Anyway, there is not so much we can do about this> > problem, except to do our very best when we, who are supposed to be the good> > guys, do the horoscopes ourselves. But are we really doing our best, or> > are some of us perhaps getting a little lazy? This is actually a very> > important question. Since - after all - no astrologer, however big or> > famous, is any better than the last horoscope he did.> >> > There is a certain critizism about Lal Kitab astrologers that I have often> > among the other kinds of Hindu astrologers and even among some few western> > astrologers as well. They say, when you consult a Lal Kitab astrologer, he> > will ask you a number of highly relevant questions about your life, which> > clearly confirms the correctness of your chart, and he would even pin-point> > at certain events going on in certain years of the past. He may even say> > thing about the present situations, being precisely correct. But when it> > comes to the future, he either can or will not give any predictions at all,> > but rather gives a large number of Upayas (remedies) to guard agains any bad> > elements in the near future, normally without even telling what malefic> > event the remedy is supposed to guard against.> >> > No doubt a lot of relevant things are being said during an Lal Kitab> > consultation. I mean say, if Saturn is malefic in the 6th in the Varshphal> > we would caution against buying new leather shoes in that year. This is in> > my opinion a good and sound piece of astrological advice. And we have a lot> > of relevant information like that to share with our clients. But given the> > knowledge about the past and present that we present to the client, isn't it> > only natural that he/she also expect something like that to be said about> > the future? And not only Upayas, however relevant they may be.> >> > I think there is some element of truth is this critizism against Lal Kitab> > astrologers. If I am right then we need to ask ourselves some questions: Are> > we becoming so arrogant against astrology that we no longer care about> > giving predictions about the future? Did Pt. Roop Chand Joshi ever say> > anything against giving predictions about the future? (Except of course that> > predictions should be given with due caution and all the necessary ethical> > consideration, etc. etc.). Are we somehow forgetting what it means to be> > astrologers? Are we developing into Upayagers rather then Astrologers?> >> > Best regards,> > Finn Wandahl> >> >> >> > > >>

June 7, 2009

Dear jitin, first step is to take the date of birth according to

indian calendar instead of georgian calendar. New year begins when sun

enters mesh rashi in (pt ji has specifically mentioned the word

TAKRABEEN) 13 April. As u know sometimes this date shifts 1-2 days

back and forth. Angrazi tarikh ke hisaab se suraj ke asar me farq aa

sakta hai. Thereafter pt ji gave a table that talks about asar ka

mahina where approximate dates are given to corelate the indian and

georgian calendar. Here too u will find word TAKREEBAN in the starting

of 3rd row of the table. Regards. Kulbir.

On 6/7/09, jitinsyal82 <jitinsyal82 wrote:

> Respected Kulbir paaji,

> It's always very nice to have a brotherly guidance, so thank you for that.

> if you can, please clarify one doubt. Pt. ji has written about months

> according to birth year i.e person born on 20th july would have his first

> month from 20 july-20 august and so on. and Pt. ji also mentioned other

> monthly system(traditional punjabi system)i.e vaisakh etc from 13th april so

> on.

>

> how are these 2 different systems to be used and when??

>

> please share your knowledge and experience.

> thanks in advance

>

> sincerely

> Jitin Syal

>

> , kulbir bance <kulbirbance wrote:

>>

>> Jitin ji, there are exceptions to this rule. 1. The planet that

>> occupies a certain house will give its result in that month

>> corressponding to the house no. Occupied by it e.g. Of mer in 2nd

>> house in varshphal is given in the book. Here the monthly chart

>> erected by moving sun will show different position of mer. But since

>> mer. is in 2 in varshphal. Mer will show its results in the 2nd month

>> predominantly. So is the case with other planets. 2ndly the current

>> year has to be divided by the house occupied by the planet. The

>> remainder shows the actual effect of that planet in that year. Plz

>> read further in the book. Then their are some specific conditions laid

>> down related to natal and varshphal placement of some planets e.g.

>> When mer of 9 will come in 11 in varshphal. Then there is dhoke ka

>> grah. Then us saal rashi no. Ke bolne wale grah Mathematical rules

>> don't help. U will have to master or atleast try the art of

>> synchoronizing all these aspects. For calculative part the software is

>> there in the files section. But synchoronizing is up to you. Regards.

>> Kulbir.

>>

>> On 6/7/09, jitinsyal82 <jitinsyal82 wrote:

>> > Respected Mr. Wandahl,

>> > Sometimes i am thick as a wall to grasp things, but you have explained

>> > this

>> > method in the most easy to understand way via an example.

>> > Your calculation or just " shifting of lagna " seems logical and easy too.

>> >

>> > Thank you once again sir and keep guiding us like this.

>> >

>> > Sincerely

>> > Jitin Syal

>> >

>> > , " Finn Wandahl " <finn.wandahl@>

>> > wrote:

>> >>

>> >> Dear Jitin,

>> >>

>> >> Quote: > However if i may can i please request you to elaborate the

>> >> monthly chart system (according to your easier calculation) <

>> >>

>> >> You must be referring to the explanation in my earlier message to

>> >> Yograj. Well, it is actually very simple. I will illustrate the method

>> >> by way of an example.

>> >>

>> >> Yesterday I made the horoscope for a young man born in India. This is

>> >> the Varshphal kundali for his 24th year. Please draw it:

>> >>

>> >> H.No. 5: Sun & Merc

>> >> H.No. 6: Ven

>> >> H. No. 7: Saturn

>> >> H.No. 8: Moon & Ketu

>> >> H.No. 10: Rahu

>> >> H.No. 11: Mars

>> >> H.No. 12: Jupiter

>> >>

>> >> Normally to find the Monthly chart you would move the Sun to the Lagna,

>> >> and move the Sun one house for each month, keeping the planets in their

>> >> respective positions with respect to the Sun.

>> >>

>> >> However, you may just as well move the Lagna to the Sun, and then move

>> >> the Lagna backwards at the rate one house for each month. The results

>> >> will be exactly the same. Except that this method is much faster and

>> >> easier, since you can read the monthly charts directly out of the

>> >> Varshphal Kundali.

>> >>

>> >> Example:

>> >>

>> >> The year begin from the young mans 24th years birthday. The Sun is in

>> >> H.No. 5, so put the Lagna in H.No. 5 and keep the planets as they are.

>> >> This will be the monthly chart of the 1st month. With a sharp eye you

>> >> have to look at the whole chart from the 5th house, and you can easily

>> >> see that Sun & Merc is in the 1st, Ven in the 2nd, Saturn in the 3rd

>> >> etc.

>> >>

>> >> To find the chart of the 2nd month you move the Lagna backwards to

>> >> H.No.

>> >> 4 and observe the whole chart from H.No. 4 in the regular order as if

>> >> H.No. 4 was the Lagna...

>> >>

>> >> To find the chart of the 3rd month you move the Lagna backwards to

>> >> H.No.

>> >> 3, for the 4th month you move Lagna to H.No. 2... etc. etc.

>> >>

>> >> Best wishes,

>> >> Finn

>> >>

>> >> , " jitinsyal82 " <jitinsyal82@>

>> >> wrote:

>> >> >

>> >> > Respected sir,

>> >> > Thanks for sharing your deep knowledge of the subject once again, it

>> >> has/will help lot of students like me.However if i may can i please

>> >> request you to elaborate the monthly chart system (according to your

>> >> easier calculation) with the help of an example as i am a very slow

>> >> learner.

>> >> >

>> >> > Sincerely

>> >> > Jitin Syal

>> >>

>> >

>>

>> --

>> Sent from my mobile device

>>

>

--

Sent from my mobile device

June 7, 2009

Dear Friends,

I have FULL respect to Pt. Roopchand ji and Lalkitab.

I first met him in 1950.He was a siddha purush.

Even more I enjoy the discussions on Lalkitab on this site.

I will always be grateful for guidance being given by experts on Lalkitab.

Before giving any prediction I always consult Lal Kitab.

These books contain dictum which were formulated even before

Parasara narrated BPHS TO MATRYEE .

Parasara clearly says in ch 3 of BPHA THAT the effects of placement of planets a) in bhava

b )in Nakshatras may be studied thoroughly in Shastras already available. I will narrate the combined

effects of planets in signs and bhavas.

Now if a planet is disposed off to give some results , it will certainly give those results but modified to the rules

of a dasa system being employed as well as effect of transits on these planets.

Lal kitab does not say that results specified their in will be not respond to other methods.

My dear friend , they do respond to other systems of dasas.Lalkitab do specify its own

powerful methodology, but do not prohibit to use and access the effects on other scales.

Even Vaids do advise their patients to consult other systems also and vice vars.Their is no harm doing so.

We should not be over possessive.

Regards, G.K.GOELPh: 09350311433Add: L-409, SARITA VIHARNEW DELHI-110 076INDIA

jitinsyal82 <jitinsyal82 Sent: Sunday, 7 June, 2009 2:28:28 PM Re: Upayagers or Astrologers ?

Respected Goel sir,Let me tell you that i am not against vedic at all.and i agree with you on the below, that scientfic research and medical science has helped us a lot but i have never seen medical science beleiving in alternative treatments or vice versa.My point was mixing 2 different methods to calculate/predict something is odd.If you think that's right,then so be it coz there are countless astrologers out there who use gochar to predict and lal kitab for remedies.I just think Pt. ji has given us enough so we don't have to rely on other sources.RespectfulyJitin SYAL, Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Sayal ji,> There was no dearth of excellent Hakims and vaids in> India ,still the population in India

was static on the level > of 200 million over 1000 years toll 1920.This had happened > in spite of fact that there were no family planning measures.> Mother were dying in child birth in large scale and there was > child mortality on large scale.Average age in India was only > 26 years till 1950> When people tried to invent new methods , now average age 62 years in India and > population had grown from 200 million to 1200 million since 1920 census.> Sages and saints had shown us the way , but we should collectively move forward.> If we shall stuck , our ancestors will be very very unhappy.> If you do not , some way, like my mail ,I beg your pardon in advance.> Regards,> G.K.GOEL> Ph: 09350311433> Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR> NEW DELHI-110 076> INDIA > > > > > ____________ _________

_________ __> jitinsyal82 <jitinsyal82@ ...>> > Saturday, 6 June, 2009 7:08:31 AM> Re: Upayagers or Astrologers ?> > > > > > Respected Goel ji,> With all due respect, i have never seen a good and kabil hakeem/vaidh asking for x-rays/blood test in order to diagnose the problem, as they rely on checking pulse and asking questions in order to conclude something. similarly i have never seen a true LK follower talking about vimsottari dasha, untill now.> > It's quite interesting, but you have the experience on your side so please keep sharing your insights.> sorry, if i said anything to hurt anyone's feelings but i am just trying to learn through your

experiences.> > Yours sincerely> Jitin Syal> > , Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@ ....> wrote:> >> > Dear Kulbir ji,> > I study the chart and indications of planets in various houses > > as per rules of Lalkitab.> > These results come true in the dasas of planets as per > > Vimsottari system.> > As an example , a native is having Saturn in 4H.ACCORDING TO LALKITAB IF SUCH NATIVE > > LAYS THE FOUNDATION OF A HOUSE BEFORE THE AGE OF 35 YEARS HE WILL LOOSE THE > > FINANCIAL STATUS.> > THE NATIVE PURCHASED A FLAT AND PERFORMED THE HOUSE WARMING CEREMONY, NEXT DAY > > HE LOST JOB.THERE WERE NO PRIOR INDICATIONS. AT THAT TIME SATURN SUB-PERIOD WAS OPERATING.> > I COME ACROSS SUCH SITUATIONS FREQUENTLY.> > REGARDS,> >

G.K.GOEL> > Ph: 09350311433> > Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR> > NEW DELHI-110 076> > INDIA > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ ...>> > > > Thursday, 4 June, 2009 2:23:52 PM> > Re: Upayagers or Astrologers ?> > > > > > > > > > > > Respected Prabhakar Ji, i think Illm Qyafa needs proper> > definition/explanat ion and how to apply it properly if not perfectly.> > It shall be very kind of you if ur goodself could shed some light> > regarding this. I think it is some sort of combination in respect of> > keen observation and its application with relation to intution. But> > not clear. Kindly

guide. With regards. Kulbir.> > > > On 6/3/09, Ashok singh <y2k_aksingh@ > wrote:> > > Dear Gurujan and friends,> > >> > > I am a new learner of lal kitab. For timing of event I guess to some extend> > > we can find from lal kitab. here is the rule and please comment on it if I> > > am wrong or if it can be improved.> > >> > > 1. Consider 35 Saal Desha, Average planet life and Planet Active during 1> > > year of period.> > >> > > A- Consider Avg. Life of a planets.> > > a) Planets in house no 2 starts from Life period minus avg period.i.e Ju 59> > > to 75> > > b) Planets in House no 9 starts from the Avg life of planets i.e Ju starts> > > from 16 to 32 or Su> > > from 22 to 44 etc.> > > c) In all

other houses it starts from starting from birth i.e. Ju from birth> > > to 16 years.> > > d) Consider all the other condition i.e Su with Ra Avg life of Su is zero or> > > Moon with Ke is 11 years.> > >> > > B. 35 Years Dasha> > > a) 35 Years Dasha should be consider and created.> > >> > > C. For every year Annual planet activte period should be consider.> > > i.e Ju 32 days, Su 22 days etc> > >> > > After creating all the tables the real game starts:> > >> > > i.e Ju in House No. 1 and Sun,Moon or Mars in House No. 1,2,4> > > Result: Earning from royal court will be extremely high.> > > Analysis:> > > Now we will see what time periods this four planets are active> > > simultaneously> > > this way we can find not

only the time of event but also the life time of> > > event.> > > (How long this result will stay)> > >> > > If you read the examples given in lal kitab it is also described there.> > >> > > If I am not clear please feel free to ask me or I am open to any question.> > >> > > WAITING FOR YOUR COMMENTS> > >> > > Thanks> > > Ashok> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > --- On Tue, 6/2/09, kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ gmail.com> wrote:> > >> > >> > > kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ gmail.com>> > > Re: Upayagers or Astrologers ?> > > @

. com> > > Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 5:47 AM> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Respected Goel ji, can u share a little bit as to how u make pin point> > > predictions for future events using lalkitab. I mean event, time of> > > occurence. Rider is that the principle applied should be applicable to> > > all or similar cases. It shouldn't be applicable to a single or Very> > > Few cases. Plz take it in positive attitude. Looking forward to learn> > > something from your goodself. Regards. Kulbir.> > >> > > On 6/2/09, Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@ . co.in> wrote:> > >> Dear Gautam ji,> > >> It looks you happen to meet a person who may not be knowing> > >> abc of

Lalkitab.> > >> Regards,> > >> G.K.GOEL> > >> Ph: 09350311433> > >> Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR> > >> NEW DELHI-110 076> > >> INDIA> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> ____________ _________ _________ __> > >> Gautam.Rampal <gautam.rampal@ gmail.com>> > >> > > >> Tuesday, 2 June, 2009 2:10:34 PM> > >> Re: Upayagers or Astrologers ?> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> I usually practice KP system of astrology, I have been able to make many> > >> successful predictions> > >> both on horary and natal chart.> >

>>> > >> This year in delhi a Nakshatra exhibition was held, out of curiousity i> > >> went> > >> to a stall which> > >> was dedicated to lal kitab books, the author was present there.> > >>> > >> I too bought couple of books, i asked him how to make predictions using> > >> lal> > >> kitab he said that> > >> predictions cannot be made from lal kitab, its main use is to neutralise> > >> the> > >> bad planetary effects.> > >>> > >> Gautam.> > >>> > >>> > >> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:45 AM, kulbir bance <kulbirbance@ gmail.com>> > >> wrote:> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> Sir, to check and verify the

nature of planets corresponding to past> > >> events and present/prevailing conditions like vaastu, physique, palm,> > >> status of and with different relatives and to suggest remedies to the> > >> native to enhance positive planatary influence and minimise negative> > >> influence to take benefit of doubt is one thing. To predict future is> > >> totally different aspect. Lalkitab places a certain degree of command> > >> in native's hands which he may use either way. So how is it possible> > >> to predict future with certainity. Also e.g. In case of Combined> > >> destiny of father-son. Or like in some cases like the one discussed in> > >> the last part of 1952 edition the birth of the son brought a windfall> > >> gains in the father's life. How can u predict when the son is still> >

>> not born. Another e.g. is the case of copper mixed gold bangles which> > >> were cut and resulted in misfortune.. Lalkitab in its introduction says> > >> that the purpose of the book is to nullify hinderances in results> > >> promised by stars and provide some sort of protective gear against> > >> possible calamities. Only major events can be foretoled that too which> > >> are of the capacity to be written with INK OF BLOOD. Lalkitab emphasis> > >> that Astrology is the study of planatary TENDENCIES. when tendency is> > >> not certain how can the predictions be pin point? Regards. Kulbir.> > >>> > >>> > >> On 6/2/09, Finn Wandahl <finn.wandahl@ mail.dk> wrote:> > >>> Dear Members,> > >>>> > >>> The discussion going on at the

moment is very interesting to follow. The> > >>> importance of Tewa Darusthi is being emphasized, which is always very> > >>> good, since Lal Kitab is an Ascendant-based kind of astrology. I have> > >>> been able to notice bad examples of Lal Kitab astrologers giving out> > >>> Upayas to people without doing any kind of Tewa Darusthi.. This means> > >>> these ignorant astrologers cannot possibly be sure if the chart is> > >>> correctly calculated or not.> > >>>> > >>> As a matter of fact this is not the first time a problem like this have> > >>> been seen in India. Around the 7th century AD the great> > >>> astronomer/astrolog er Varaha Mihira wrote that a miscalculation of an> > >>> astrologer is as sinful as the murder of a Brahmin. Actually, I

think> > >>> this proves that there was astrologers who was indiscriminately using> > >>> wrong chart even at the time of Varaha Mihira. Otherwise he would never> > >>> have given such a strong statement.> > >>>> > >>> My personal opinion is that any astrologer who is using an> > >>> Ascendant-based kind of astrology without verifying whether or not the> > >>> Ascendant is correct is nothing but a big charlatan. However, this goes> > >>> on every day and it surely gives a bad name to Lal Kitab, when the> > >>> charlatans belong to this category of astrologers. Anyway, there is not> > >>> so much we can do about this problem, except to do our very best when> > >>> we, who are supposed to be the good guys, do the horoscopes ourselves.> >

>>> But are we really doing our best, or are some of us perhaps getting a> > >>> little lazy? This is actually a very important question. Since - after> > >>> all - no astrologer, however big or famous, is any better than the last> > >>> horoscope he did.> > >>>> > >>> There is a certain critizism about Lal Kitab astrologers that I have> > >>> often among the other kinds of Hindu astrologers and even among some few> > >>> western astrologers as well. They say, when you consult a Lal Kitab> > >>> astrologer, he will ask you a number of highly relevant questions about> > >>> your life, which clearly confirms the correctness of your chart, and he> > >>> would even pin-point at certain events going on in certain years of the> > >>> past. He

may even say thing about the present situations, being> > >>> precisely correct. But when it comes to the future, he either can or> > >>> will not give any predictions at all, but rather gives a large number of> > >>> Upayas (remedies) to guard agains any bad elements in the near future,> > >>> normally without even telling what malefic event the remedy is supposed> > >>> to guard against.> > >>>> > >>> No doubt a lot of relevant things are being said during an Lal Kitab> > >>> consultation. I mean say, if Saturn is malefic in the 6th in the> > >>> Varshphal we would caution against buying new leather shoes in that> > >>> year.. This is in my opinion a good and sound piece of astrological> > >>> advice. And we have a lot of relevant information like

that to share> > >>> with our clients. But given the knowledge about the past and present> > >>> that we present to the client, isn't it only natural that he/she also> > >>> expect something like that to be said about the future? And not only> > >>> Upayas, however relevant they may be.> > >>>> > >>> I think there is some element of truth is this critizism against Lal> > >>> Kitab astrologers. . If I am right then we need to ask ourselves some> > >>> questions: Are we becoming so arrogant against astrology that we no> > >>> longer care about giving predictions about the future? Did Pt. Roop> > >>> Chand Joshi ever say anything against giving predictions about the> > >>> future? (Except of course that predictions should be given with due>

> >>> caution and all the necessary ethical consideration, etc.. etc.). Are we> > >>> somehow forgetting what it means to be astrologers? Are we developing> > >>> into Upayagers rather then Astrologers?> > >>>> > >>> Best regards,> > >>> Finn Wandahl> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> --> > >> Sent from my mobile device> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> Own a website.Get an unlimited package.Pay next to nothing.*Go to> > >> http://in.business. /> > >> > > --> > > Sent from my

mobile device> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > -- > > Sent from my mobile device> > > > > > > > > > Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with India Travel http://in.travel. /> >> > > > > > Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with India Travel http://in.travel. />

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June 7, 2009

Respected Goel ji, we are really honoured to have a guide as ur

goodself who knew pt ji since 1950. But still i have reservations

regarding ur approach. Kindly refer to mercury in ekadash bhav and

navam bhav as referred in Bhattanarayanakrat : chamatkar chintamani.

And compare it with what lalkitab says about mercury in khana no. 11

and 9. U will get ur answer. Since u talk of medical every time. Let

me remind u that a person wrongly diagonosed of malaria is given

regular dose of quinine to counter it will eventually and actually

become a patient of malaria. Regards. Kulbir.

On 6/7/09, Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937 wrote:

> Dear Friends,

> I have FULL respect to Pt. Roopchand ji and Lalkitab.

> I first met him in 1950.He was a siddha purush.

> Even more I enjoy the discussions on Lalkitab on this site.

> I will always be grateful for guidance being given by experts on Lalkitab.

> Before giving any prediction I always consult Lal Kitab.

> These books contain dictum which were formulated even before

> Parasara narrated BPHS TO MATRYEE .

> Parasara clearly says in ch 3 of BPHA THAT the effects of placement of

> planets a) in bhava

> b )in Nakshatras may be studied thoroughly in Shastras already available. I

> will narrate the combined

> effects of planets in signs and bhavas.

> Now if a planet is disposed off to give some results , it will certainly

> give those results but modified to the rules

> of a dasa system being employed as well as effect of transits on these

> planets.

> Lal kitab does not say that results specified their in will be not respond

> to other methods.

> My dear friend , they do respond to other systems of dasas.Lalkitab do

> specify its own

> powerful methodology, but do not prohibit to use and access the effects on

> other scales.

>

> Even Vaids do advise their patients to consult other systems also and vice

> vars.Their is no harm doing so.

> We should not be over possessive.

> Regards,

> G.K.GOEL

> Ph: 09350311433

> Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR

> NEW DELHI-110 076

> INDIA

>