Guest guest Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Hello Steven, > The bombings today just south of Baghdad that have so far left 71 dead, > come just after the ingress of Mars into Scorpio yesterday (the 18th). > Fagan ayanamsa places Mars and Uranus close to angles (Mars rising less > than 2 degrees off Asc) and Uranus at the 4th cusp (within 3 degrees.). I was wondering: do we have the date and time of the first attack of the USA in Irak? -- Regards - François -- Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.0 - Release 04-12-17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Francois Carriere wrote: > > I was wondering: do we have the date and time of the first attack of > the USA > in Irak? > Hello Francois, Yes: March 20, 2003 @ 5:30 AM Baghdad. Here is a war timeline: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0908792.html Best, Steve > > -- > Regards - François > > > > > -- > > > Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.0 - Release 04-12-17 > > > > " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- > > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > / > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Steven Stuckey wrote: >Bert, Anne and members, > >The bombings today just south of Baghdad that have so far left 71 dead, >come just after the ingress of Mars into Scorpio yesterday (the 18th). >Fagan ayanamsa places Mars and Uranus close to angles (Mars rising less >than 2 degrees off Asc) and Uranus at the 4th cusp (within 3 degrees.). > >Fagan states in his " Solunars Handbook " on this combination appearing >simultaneously on angles of a return chart: > > " When Mars and Uranus transit in the foreground in double harness, it is >a highly explosive transit, being all the more dangerous because it is >hardly possible to tell from what source the danger threatens, or its >precise nature. All we know is that it will strike with the speed of >lightening and where least expected. Attacks by human beings, animals, >reptiles, fires, explosions, shipwreck, railway accidents, earthquakes >etc cannot be ruled out. " > > >Best, > > > --\ --------------------------- Steve: Yes that is the sort of symbolism to be expected in such cases. It would be interesting to see how near or far the Mars/.Uranus fall off the angles of the ingress in Sidereal Time, (RAMC) using the other ayanamsahs. Bert Fannin > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 At 06:29 PM 12/19/04 -0800, Steve wrote: > > >Bert, Anne and members, > >The bombings today just south of Baghdad that have so far left 71 dead, >come just after the ingress of Mars into Scorpio yesterday (the 18th). >Fagan ayanamsa places Mars and Uranus close to angles (Mars rising less >than 2 degrees off Asc) and Uranus at the 4th cusp (within 3 degrees.)... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Steve, what chart are you using? The Mars ingress chart? The time of the event? If it's an ingress chart, the ayanamsa would make a difference. Otherwise the ayanamsa won't matter. Note for the confused: The only charts where the ayanamsa matters is an *ingress* chart, the entrance of the Sun or a planet into a sign of the zodiac. The planets and angles are similar for any *event* chart in any zodiac, tropical or sidereal. Please post data for the chart. (We all need to remember to post data.) Thanks--please excuse my curt replies on this list due to time constraints. (House guests = no time for anything else.) Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Bert Fannin wrote: > > - > --\ ------------------------- > > Steve: > Yes that is the sort of symbolism to be expected in such cases. It > > would be interesting to see how near or far the Mars/.Uranus fall off > > the angles of the ingress in Sidereal Time, (RAMC) using the other > ayanamsahs. Hi Bert, Thanks for the tip and link on this--I may look into this in the near future. Personally I was much more interested in this kind of thing (proving the ayanamsa) about 15 years ago but seem to have gradually lost a certain incentive in this area as the years progressed. My own experience, after looking at thousands of charts for many years, has consistently lead me to pick the 'lesser' longitude when confronted with a choice when a planet is on a 'cusp'. That is, when a planet (other than the Moon because of the parallax factor) is 29* 07' or more in Fagan, it would be at 0* 00' or higher of the next sign in all the ayanamsas except Dwal Khul (from Alice Bailey). Most of the time (and I admit this is always a very subjective call), the planetary function is better suited to the chart in the Fagan ayanamsa. Ingess charts might be more reliable, but then again not--as I've seen Fagan, Lahiri and Krishnamurti work equally well for different occasions. A couple of interesting charts to illustrate my point above: Bob Dylan, born May 24, 1941 @ 9:05 PM CST in Duluth, MN James 'Bo' Gritz born January 18, 1939 @ 8:48 AM CST in Enid, OK Bob Dylan , a poet, musician and songwriter with Mercury either in Taurus or Gemini. James Gritz, the most highly decorated Vietnam vet and commander of Special Forces with Mars in either Libra or Scorpio. The above offers many opportunites for arguing into eternity........... Perhaps many ingress charts measured in RAMC would be a more reliable model. Best, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Therese Hamilton wrote: > > Steve, what chart are you using? The Mars ingress chart? The time of > the > event? If it's an ingress chart, the ayanamsa would make a difference. > > Otherwise the ayanamsa won't matter. Hi Therese, Yes, the ingress of Mars into Scorpio 0* 00' for Baghdad. Best, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Steven Stuckey wrote: > >Therese Hamilton wrote: > > > >>Steve, what chart are you using? The Mars ingress chart? The time of >>the event? If it's an ingress chart, the ayanamsa would make a difference. Otherwise the ayanamsa won't matter. >> >> > >Hi Therese, > >Yes, the ingress of Mars into Scorpio 0* 00' for Baghdad. > > >Best, > > > ------ > >Steve: > > Theresa is correct. When doing the Ingresses, it presupposes the return of the body to an exact same point in the sky. Therefore the Ayanamsa is critical. For simple transit or Katarch chats it is not so important. I do have my doubts about ingresses of planets other then the Sun and Moon into a Constellation. One has to ask, which one, that is when it goes direct into the constellation, when it retrogrades back to the 0 degree or both? I am not rejecting the notion all together, but rather just remaining skeptical for the above reasons. Sidereally, Bert Fannin > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Bert Fannin wrote: > > Theresa is correct. When doing the Ingresses, it > presupposes the return of the body to an exact same point in the sky. > Therefore the Ayanamsa is critical. For simple transit or Katarch > chats > it is not so important. Hi Bert, Yes, this post was put out partly in response to Anne and earlier Francois who have brought up the topic of ayanamsa. After hearing the news on the recent bombings and the closeness of Mars to 0 Scorpio, I thought I would check ayanamsas and see if one brought any expected planets to angles for the ingress. > > > I do have my doubts about ingresses of planets other then the > Sun and Moon into a Constellation. One has to ask, which one, that is > when it goes direct into the constellation, when it retrogrades back > to the 0 degree or both? I am not rejecting the notion all together, > but rather just remaining skeptical for the above reasons. Good point you raise and this naturally implies much work to prove one way or another. An interesting one to look at here would be the entrance of Mars into Sagittarius in April and again in August of 2001 for the WTC bombing. Best, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 At 10:28 AM 12/20/04 -0800, Bert wrote: >> I do have my doubts about ingresses of planets other then the Sun and Moon into a Constellation. One has to ask, which one, that is when it goes direct into the constellation, when it retrogrades back to the 0 degree or both? I am not rejecting the notion all together, but rather just remaining skeptical for the above reasons. Bert, Perhaps what really matters is when a planet retrogrades back and forth over a sensitive point such as the junction between two signs. In scanning traumatic charts there always seems to be one or two planets within 30 minutes of a sidereal sign junction, which means the junction points are critical, like turning a corner in a vehicle. All I need is the time to list these positions. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 At 12:34 PM 12/20/04 -0800, Steve wrote: >... >An interesting one to look at here would be the entrance of Mars into >Sagittarius in April and again in August of 2001 for the WTC bombing. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I'd say let's watch Pluto when it moves from Scorpio to Sagittarius. Richard Houck has documented key events when the slow moving planets changed signs. (He used his own ayanamsa, which is close to Krishnamurti.) The bombing and bloodshed in Iraq has been on-going. We probably have to look further back in time than the transit of Mars into a sign. But everything is worth researching. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Therese Hamilton wrote: >At 10:28 AM 12/20/04 -0800, Bert wrote: > >>> I do have my doubts about ingresses of planets other then the Sun and > >Moon into a Constellation. >Perhaps what really matters is when a planet retrogrades back and forth >over a sensitive point such as the junction between two signs. In scanning >traumatic charts there always seems to be one or two planets within 30 >minutes of a sidereal sign junction, which means the junction points are >critical, like turning a corner in a vehicle. All I need is the time to >list these positions. ------ Therese: That is a good point. Though I think that an ingress chart per se should be based on the Sun or Moon ingressing to the zero point of the Sidereal Constellations. I have also seen events occur where the other planets were on or near the zero juncture. It is a tip off that something is up. I look at the angularity lines for that planet closely. However, the Solar and Lunar Ingresses seem to set the framework in both space and in time. Sidereally, Bert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2004 Report Share Posted December 24, 2004 Hi Bert, I do believe planetary ingresses have great value. Steve's example of the Mars ingress of its domicile Scorpio and the fact that Michelson's American Sidereal Ephemeris has shown all of them in the middle of the page for many years. In January there are fully seven (disregarding the Moon). Of particular note is the Mars ingress of its exaltation Capricorn three days before 9/11 in the _Tropical. Pluto rises on the ascending degree for NYC opposite Saturn. Dark*Star ________________________________ Therese Hamilton wrote: > At 10:28 AM 12/20/04 -0800, Bert wrote: > > >> I do have my doubts about ingresses of planets other then the Sun and > Moon into a Constellation. One has to ask, which one, that is when it goes > direct into the constellation, when it retrogrades back to the 0 degree or > both? I am not rejecting the notion all together, but rather just remaining > skeptical for the above reasons. > > Bert, > > Perhaps what really matters is when a planet retrogrades back and forth > over a sensitive point such as the junction between two signs. In scanning > traumatic charts there always seems to be one or two planets within 30 > minutes of a sidereal sign junction, which means the junction points are > critical, like turning a corner in a vehicle. All I need is the time to > list these positions. > > Therese > > > " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- > > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > / > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2004 Report Share Posted December 24, 2004 Dark Star wrote: Dark*Star: >> I do believe planetary ingresses have great value. Steve's example of >> the Mars ingress of its domicile Scorpio and the fact that I do look at the other ingresses from time to time, especially in the case of notable events. But, I have found that the Cardinal ingresses of the Sun and the moon, and their progressions to show the time frame, and sometimes to pinpoint the event. >> Michelson's American Sidereal Ephemeris has shown all of them in the >> middle of the page for many years. In January there are fully seven >> (disregarding the Moon). Yes Michelson was smart to include such ingresses. It makes a very good research tool. My point is that the ingress is basically a cycle chart, and as such has a set term. (In the case of the Sun a year, and in the case of the Moon one lunar month. The movement of a planet into a different constellation colors its effect and of that careful note should be taken. But I do not think that it can be seen as a great harbinger of events, in the way that the Solar and Lunar ingresses can. >>Of particular note is the Mars ingress of its exaltation Capricorn >> three days before 9/11 in the _Tropical. Pluto rises on the ascending >> degree for NYC opposite Saturn. The fact that Mars/Saturn were closes for that latitude at the time of 9/11 and had an effect regardless of ingress or Zodiac. On the day of the attack, Mars and Pluto were in paran with in 1d 05' with a RAMC of 21:58:51. This paran (Mars IC/Pluto set) was not angular. One would expect something drastic during this time. Such parans do not have to be angular. That fact that they will rotate to the angles by diurnal motion makes them potent at that parallel of latitude. This is an dispute among several Siderealists. There are some, like Roscoe Hope who dispute the fact that such parans have any effect, unless plump on the angles. Others like myself and Ken Bowser have found that they are in fact effective,if close, angular or not. The debate over the nature of ingresses and the role played by parans is on going. The saga continues. :-) Bert Fannin Western Sidereal Astrologer www.ltastrology.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2004 Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 Hello You All; Just got back to work Monday, and 6AM saw CNN News on the Indian Ocean quake... Wow! special Full Moon effect! Dont know if anybody was watching History Channel as me getting Hotel perks. Apocalypse, Armageddon, Nostradomus, stuff all day Saturday, Sunday... Criticisms against psychics or Astrologers is hindsight practice of so many students... At fault? Its part of the practice. Cardinal Ingresses...?* Clearly the cats out of the bag... the Arctic & Antarctic are melting away, the climate regions changing, and if matters continue increasing in environment; we will be in an early Ice Age. That's not even considering a GeoMagnetic Pole Shift & Effects on Life. I will put an early bet that Voodoo Science is Bullshit Politics for MONEY=Profit=SMALL MINDS with GREEDY SOULS. LOVE< LUX, Sidereally yours Robert Bert Fannin <bwfannin wrote: Dark Star wrote: Dark*Star: >> I do believe planetary ingresses have great value. Steve's example of >> the Mars ingress of its domicile Scorpio and the fact that I do look at the other ingresses from time to time, especially in the case of notable events. But, I have found that the Cardinal ingresses of the Sun and the moon, and their progressions to show the time frame, and sometimes to pinpoint the event. >> Michelson's American Sidereal Ephemeris has shown all of them in the >> middle of the page for many years. In January there are fully seven >> (disregarding the Moon). Yes Michelson was smart to include such ingresses. It makes a very good research tool. My point is that the ingress is basically a cycle chart, and as such has a set term. (In the case of the Sun a year, and in the case of the Moon one lunar month. The movement of a planet into a different constellation colors its effect and of that careful note should be taken. But I do not think that it can be seen as a great harbinger of events, in the way that the Solar and Lunar ingresses can. >>Of particular note is the Mars ingress of its exaltation Capricorn >> three days before 9/11 in the _Tropical. Pluto rises on the ascending >> degree for NYC opposite Saturn. The fact that Mars/Saturn were closes for that latitude at the time of 9/11 and had an effect regardless of ingress or Zodiac. On the day of the attack, Mars and Pluto were in paran with in 1d 05' with a RAMC of 21:58:51. This paran (Mars IC/Pluto set) was not angular. One would expect something drastic during this time. Such parans do not have to be angular. That fact that they will rotate to the angles by diurnal motion makes them potent at that parallel of latitude. This is an dispute among several Siderealists. There are some, like Roscoe Hope who dispute the fact that such parans have any effect, unless plump on the angles. Others like myself and Ken Bowser have found that they are in fact effective,if close, angular or not. The debate over the nature of ingresses and the role played by parans is on going. The saga continues. :-) Bert Fannin Western Sidereal Astrologer www.ltastrology.com " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.