Test of tropical versus sidereal zodiac

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

 

Glad to join this forum.

 

Vedic astrologer Ersnt Wilhelm is conducting a statistical query to determine

which of the zodiacs - tropical or sidereal - works better. Those of you who are

interested and have an accurate time of birth are encouraged to fill out the

test. Ernst reports that test 2 is showing some quite rewarding results. So far

more than 378 people have taken the test and results are consistently aligning

with the same calculations on all three questions, which is quite exciting.

Hopefully a few hundred more people will take the test over the weekend and then

he can reveal the results to you all.

 

http://www.isjyotish.com/

 

Thanks,

Boaz

[Guest guest]

Dear Boaz,

This indeed is a good news.The result will surely be exciting.After the result please intimate about it to us all.

But one thing is certain which we must all know.Both tropical and sidereal zodiacs are necessary for the vedic astrology.The two sankrantis are to be within the same full moon zone.This is the only parameter for the coordination of the two.This is known by the experts of vedic calendar( Dharma shastris).The very word vedic means concerning dharma shastras.So no matter what the result, the only way to save vedic jyotish is by shifting all the rashis by 30 degrees by the sayan or the tropical way and apply the nirayan system for another 1500 to 2000 years.This is in accordance with the vedanga jyotish principles.This is the only traditinal way to reform.It is a foregone conclusion, if any one wants ot come to lasting solution.

regards,

Hari Malla

 

 

 

zaobnali <zaob16 Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 5:12:03 PM Test of tropical versus sidereal zodiac

 

Dear All, Glad to join this forum.Vedic astrologer Ersnt Wilhelm is conducting a statistical query to determine which of the zodiacs - tropical or sidereal - works better. Those of you who are interested and have an accurate time of birth are encouraged to fill out the test. Ernst reports that test 2 is showing some quite rewarding results. So far more than 378 people have taken the test and results are consistently aligning with the same calculations on all three questions, which is quite exciting. Hopefully a few hundred more people will take the test over the weekend and then he can reveal the results to you all. http://www.isjyotish.com/Thanks,Boaz

[Guest guest]

dear grp I know abt this reserch work of ernestwilhem but i doubt its success ,Mr >ernest ji is also memebr of our forum too All the rules available is based on a fixed zodiac ,so with the rules how he can b successful in such a mission ,instead of popularising such a event he shud hav done it in prashna first silently and then in natal chart and he himself can see the results other wise what he will call for each rasi ?? who is Lord of it .How he will take exaltation or debilation degree in new rasi ?? if Moon is showing a diffrnt nakshtra wat is his authority to use Vimshottary dasa for it ?? how he use various other pointers prescribed by rishies ,all principles based on siderial zodiac including mrityu bhaga ?? So can he make diffrnt HOra (astrological treatise ) for this new avatar No personal abuse intented here except the call for re surrection of old glory and re serch of old dictums and see it s applicablity first than going for diffrnt models ,if some body can sponsor it i am ready to offer my services along with ancient expertise ( there is still old masters available for advises in villages of kerala and india ) and books ,also hints for where many books are lying around if some one can arrnage resource for collecting it and preserving it for future generations rgrds sunil nair ________________________________> zaobnali zaob16 > Friday, May 15, 2009 5:12:03 PM> Test of tropical versus sidereal zodiac> > > > > > Dear All, > > Glad to join this forum.> > Vedic astrologer Ersnt Wilhelm is conducting a statistical query to determine which of the zodiacs - tropical or sidereal - works better. Those of you who are interested and have an accurate time of birth are encouraged to fill out the test. Ernst reports that test 2 is showing some quite rewarding results. So far more than 378 people have taken the test and results are consistently aligning with the same calculations on all three questions, which is quite exciting. Hopefully a few hundred more people will take the test over the weekend and then he can reveal the results to you all. > > http://www.isjyotish.com/> > Thanks,> Boaz>

[Guest guest]

Respected Sunil Nair,

Thanks for the befitting reply. The fixed and moving i.e. Naraina and Sayana

system both are essential for the Astrology.The Naraina system is essential for

the Jataka and Sayana system is essential for the Mundane

Regards

 

--- On Fri, 5/15/09, sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala wrote:

 

 

sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala

Re: Test of tropical versus sidereal zodiac

 

Friday, May 15, 2009, 7:47 PM

 

dear grp

 

I know abt this reserch work of ernestwilhem  but i doubt its success  ,Mr

>ernest ji is also memebr of our forum too

 

All the rules available is based on a fixed zodiac ,so with the rules how he can

b successful in such a mission ,instead of popularising such a event he shud hav

done it in prashna first silently and then in natal chart and he himself can see

the results

 

other wise what he will call for each rasi ??  who is Lord of it .How he will

take exaltation or debilation degree in new rasi ?? if Moon is showing a diffrnt

nakshtra wat is his authority to use Vimshottary dasa for it ??  how he use

various other pointers prescribed by rishies ,all principles based on siderial

zodiac  including mrityu bhaga ?? So can he make diffrnt HOra (astrological

treatise ) for this new avatar

 

No personal abuse intented here except the call for re surrection of old glory

and re serch of old dictums and see it s applicablity first than going for

diffrnt models ,if some body can sponsor it i am ready to offer my services

along with ancient expertise ( there is still old masters available for advises

in villages of kerala and india )  and books ,also hints for where many books

are lying around if some one can arrnage resource for collecting it and

preserving it for future generations

 

rgrds sunil nair

 

 

________________________________

> zaobnali zaob16

>

> Friday, May 15, 2009 5:12:03 PM

> Test of tropical versus sidereal zodiac

>

>

>

>

>

> Dear All,

>

> Glad to join this forum.

>

> Vedic astrologer Ersnt Wilhelm is conducting a statistical query to determine

which of the zodiacs - tropical or sidereal - works better. Those of you who are

interested and have an accurate time of birth are encouraged to fill out the

test. Ernst reports that test 2 is showing some quite rewarding results. So far

more than 378 people have taken the test and results are consistently aligning

with the same calculations on all three questions, which is quite exciting.

Hopefully a few hundred more people will take the test over the weekend and then

he can reveal the results to you all.

>

> http://www.isjyotish.com/

>

> Thanks,

> Boaz

>

[Guest guest]

dear Kursija ji Thanks rgrds sunil nair , "S.C. Kursija" <sckursija wrote:>> Respected Sunil Nair,> Thanks for the befitting reply. The fixed and moving i.e. Naraina and Sayana system both are essential for the Astrology.The Naraina system is essential for the Jataka and Sayana system is essential for the Mundane> Regards> > --- On Fri, 5/15/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala wrote:> > > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala Re: Test of tropical versus sidereal zodiac> > Friday, May 15, 2009, 7:47 PM> > dear grp> > I know abt this reserch work of ernestwilhem but i doubt its success ,Mr >ernest ji is also memebr of our forum too> > All the rules available is based on a fixed zodiac ,so with the rules how he can b successful in such a mission ,instead of popularising such a event he shud hav done it in prashna first silently and then in natal chart and he himself can see the results> > other wise what he will call for each rasi ?? who is Lord of it .How he will take exaltation or debilation degree in new rasi ?? if Moon is showing a diffrnt nakshtra wat is his authority to use Vimshottary dasa for it ?? how he use various other pointers prescribed by rishies ,all principles based on siderial zodiac including mrityu bhaga ?? So can he make diffrnt HOra (astrological treatise ) for this new avatar> > No personal abuse intented here except the call for re surrection of old glory and re serch of old dictums and see it s applicablity first than going for diffrnt models ,if some body can sponsor it i am ready to offer my services along with ancient expertise ( there is still old masters available for advises in villages of kerala and india ) and books ,also hints for where many books are lying around if some one can arrnage resource for collecting it and preserving it for future generations> > rgrds sunil nair> > > ________________________________> > zaobnali zaob16@> > > > Friday, May 15, 2009 5:12:03 PM> > Test of tropical versus sidereal zodiac> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear All,> >> > Glad to join this forum.> >> > Vedic astrologer Ersnt Wilhelm is conducting a statistical query to determine which of the zodiacs - tropical or sidereal - works better. Those of you who are interested and have an accurate time of birth are encouraged to fill out the test. Ernst reports that test 2 is showing some quite rewarding results. So far more than 378 people have taken the test and results are consistently aligning with the same calculations on all three questions, which is quite exciting. Hopefully a few hundred more people will take the test over the weekend and then he can reveal the results to you all.> >> > http://www.isjyotish.com/> >> > Thanks,> > Boaz> >>

[Guest guest]

Hello All,

 

Thank you for following up on this important topic. You may find it interesting

to study the material on the ayanamsha available here:

http://www.vedic astrology.net/FreeClasses/Ayanamsa-and-Rasis.asp

http://actastrology.com/viewforum.php?f=10

 

I appreciate very much Ernst's scientific approach and wish his endeavor at the

Institute of Scientific Jyotish best of luck. Myself I am a scientist by

occupation.

 

Regards,

Boaz

 

, " sunil nair "

<astro_tellerkerala wrote:

>

>

> dear Kursija ji

>

> Thanks

>

> rgrds sunil nair

> , " S.C. Kursija "

> <sckursija@> wrote:

> >

> > Respected Sunil Nair,

> > Thanks for the befitting reply. The fixed and moving i.e. Naraina and

> Sayana system both are essential for the Astrology.The Naraina system is

> essential for the Jataka and Sayana system is essential for the Mundane

> > Regards

> >

> > --- On Fri, 5/15/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:

> >

> >

> > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@

> > Re: Test of tropical versus

> sidereal zodiac

> >

> > Friday, May 15, 2009, 7:47 PM

> >

> > dear grp

> >

> > I know abt this reserch work of ernestwilhem but i doubt its success

> ,Mr >ernest ji is also memebr of our forum too

> >

> > All the rules available is based on a fixed zodiac ,so with the rules

> how he can b successful in such a mission ,instead of popularising such

> a event he shud hav done it in prashna first silently and then in natal

> chart and he himself can see the results

> >

> > other wise what he will call for each rasi ?? who is Lord of it .How

> he will take exaltation or debilation degree in new rasi ?? if Moon is

> showing a diffrnt nakshtra wat is his authority to use Vimshottary dasa

> for it ?? how he use various other pointers prescribed by rishies ,all

> principles based on siderial zodiac including mrityu bhaga ?? So can he

> make diffrnt HOra (astrological treatise ) for this new avatar

> >

> > No personal abuse intented here except the call for re surrection of

> old glory and re serch of old dictums and see it s applicablity first

> than going for diffrnt models ,if some body can sponsor it i am ready to

> offer my services along with ancient expertise ( there is still old

> masters available for advises in villages of kerala and india ) and

> books ,also hints for where many books are lying around if some one can

> arrnage resource for collecting it and preserving it for future

> generations

> >

> > rgrds sunil nair

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > > zaobnali zaob16@

> > >

> > > Friday, May 15, 2009 5:12:03 PM

> > > Test of tropical versus sidereal

> zodiac

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > >

> > > Glad to join this forum.

> > >

> > > Vedic astrologer Ersnt Wilhelm is conducting a statistical query to

> determine which of the zodiacs - tropical or sidereal - works better.

> Those of you who are interested and have an accurate time of birth are

> encouraged to fill out the test. Ernst reports that test 2 is showing

> some quite rewarding results. So far more than 378 people have taken the

> test and results are consistently aligning with the same calculations on

> all three questions, which is quite exciting. Hopefully a few hundred

> more people will take the test over the weekend and then he can reveal

> the results to you all.

> > >

> > > http://www.isjyotish.com/

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Boaz

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

dear zaobnali ji It is happy to know that u r a scientist ,astrology is not a science in physical sense of science which demands 2+2 is 4 ,then u may hav to go disappointed Astrology is a sastra which has its own rules to arrive at its results ,it has nothing in common with modern science .even science agrees or not ,or if it agree tomorrow it is not our problem .if some one dont understand a ancient treatise it doesnot allow him to deviate frm what was traditionaly being practised ( he can do what ever way he feels like but no right to teach or spread a misconception as reserch or some thing ) ,even if we cannot answer u also doesnot means it does giv u authority to say that astrology which is practised by major section of india is wrong .i would like to point out 4 cities mentioned in surya sidhantha in the article by earnest ji ( he thinks it is some real places ) yamakoti ,romaka ,sidhapuri and Lanka ( to locate 4 quadrants ) did u try to locate it ?? lanka is a name still avilable ?? what was result ?? why dont u take it as a pointer ??Also do u know one thing the gypsies who still claims of indian origin in european countries they calls themself as ROMA tribe ,why ?? it says they carried lot of information to western countries ??Why dont u equate them with roma a ancient empire ??Romaka real meaning in sanskrit is hairy ( roma means hair ,so may b some grp of ppl who has long hairs as a fashion --i just suggesting a diffrnt meaning ,so now what u think this ancient romaka sidhantha is came frm rome or ppl of romaka country/group /tribe or rishi kula in india itself or a rishi who was being called as Romaka ??all this names are fictious Names used for calculating a mathematical model than anything to do with real cities/country .so u shud understand that the basic problem is understanding the reality ,there may b 1000 commentaries even the best among them also may b faulty ,where as truth will b one and one only The problem is our misundestanding to identify truth .thanks for ur time rgrds sunil nair , "zaobnali" <zaob16 wrote:>> Hello All, > > Thank you for following up on this important topic. You may find it interesting to study the material on the ayanamsha available here:> http://www.vedic astrology.net/FreeClasses/Ayanamsa-and-Rasis.asp> http://actastrology.com/viewforum.php?f=10> > I appreciate very much Ernst's scientific approach and wish his endeavor at the Institute of Scientific Jyotish best of luck. Myself I am a scientist by occupation.> > Regards,> Boaz> > , "sunil nair" astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> > > > dear Kursija ji> > > > Thanks> > > > rgrds sunil nair> > , "S.C. Kursija"> > <sckursija@> wrote:> > >> > > Respected Sunil Nair,> > > Thanks for the befitting reply. The fixed and moving i.e. Naraina and> > Sayana system both are essential for the Astrology.The Naraina system is> > essential for the Jataka and Sayana system is essential for the Mundane> > > Regards> > >> > > --- On Fri, 5/15/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@> > > Re: Test of tropical versus> > sidereal zodiac> > > > > > Friday, May 15, 2009, 7:47 PM> > >> > > dear grp> > >> > > I know abt this reserch work of ernestwilhem but i doubt its success > > ,Mr >ernest ji is also memebr of our forum too> > >> > > All the rules available is based on a fixed zodiac ,so with the rules> > how he can b successful in such a mission ,instead of popularising such> > a event he shud hav done it in prashna first silently and then in natal> > chart and he himself can see the results> > >> > > other wise what he will call for each rasi ?? who is Lord of it .How> > he will take exaltation or debilation degree in new rasi ?? if Moon is> > showing a diffrnt nakshtra wat is his authority to use Vimshottary dasa> > for it ?? how he use various other pointers prescribed by rishies ,all> > principles based on siderial zodiac including mrityu bhaga ?? So can he> > make diffrnt HOra (astrological treatise ) for this new avatar> > >> > > No personal abuse intented here except the call for re surrection of> > old glory and re serch of old dictums and see it s applicablity first> > than going for diffrnt models ,if some body can sponsor it i am ready to> > offer my services along with ancient expertise ( there is still old> > masters available for advises in villages of kerala and india ) and> > books ,also hints for where many books are lying around if some one can> > arrnage resource for collecting it and preserving it for future> > generations> > >> > > rgrds sunil nair> > >> > >> > > ________________________________> > > > zaobnali zaob16@> > > > > > > > Friday, May 15, 2009 5:12:03 PM> > > > Test of tropical versus sidereal> > zodiac> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear All,> > > >> > > > Glad to join this forum.> > > >> > > > Vedic astrologer Ersnt Wilhelm is conducting a statistical query to> > determine which of the zodiacs - tropical or sidereal - works better.> > Those of you who are interested and have an accurate time of birth are> > encouraged to fill out the test. Ernst reports that test 2 is showing> > some quite rewarding results. So far more than 378 people have taken the> > test and results are consistently aligning with the same calculations on> > all three questions, which is quite exciting. Hopefully a few hundred> > more people will take the test over the weekend and then he can reveal> > the results to you all.> > > >> > > > http://www.isjyotish.com/> > > >> > > > Thanks,> > > > Boaz> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunil,

 

Ernst's work makes sense to me. It is my understanding that the ancient

texts have not been preserved without corruption and people like Ernst

are trying to carry tests in order to validate one interpretation or

another. The fact that majority of Indian people are practicing the

sidereal zodiac does not validate it. Similarly mid age most Europeans

believed the world is flat following Church tradition and dogma. I don't

know enough about the origin of Yamakoti. Please ask Ernst for his

opinion. Thanks.

 

Best,

Boaz

 

 

, " sunil nair "

<astro_tellerkerala wrote:

>

>

> dear zaobnali ji

>

> It is happy to know that u r a scientist ,astrology is not a science

in

> physical sense of science which demands 2+2 is 4 ,then u may hav to go

> disappointed

>

> Astrology is a sastra which has its own rules to arrive at its results

> ,it has nothing in common with modern science .even science agrees or

> not ,or if it agree tomorrow it is not our problem .

>

> if some one dont understand a ancient treatise it doesnot allow him to

> deviate frm what was traditionaly being practised ( he can do what

ever

> way he feels like but no right to teach or spread a misconception as

> reserch or some thing ) ,even if we cannot answer u also doesnot

means

> it does giv u authority to say that astrology which is practised by

> major section of india is wrong .

>

> i would like to point out 4 cities mentioned in surya sidhantha in the

> article by earnest ji ( he thinks it is some real places )

>

> yamakoti ,romaka ,sidhapuri and Lanka ( to locate 4 quadrants )

>

> did u try to locate it ?? lanka is a name still avilable ?? what was

> result ?? why dont u take it as a pointer ??

> Also do u know one thing the gypsies who still claims of indian origin

> in european countries they calls themself as ROMA tribe ,why ?? it

says

> they carried lot of information to western countries ??Why dont u

equate

> them with roma a ancient empire ??Romaka real meaning in sanskrit is

> hairy ( roma means hair ,so may b some grp of ppl who has long hairs

as

> a fashion --i just suggesting a diffrnt meaning ,so now what u think

> this ancient romaka sidhantha is came frm rome or ppl of romaka

> country/group /tribe or rishi kula in india itself or a rishi who was

> being called as Romaka ??

>

> all this names are fictious Names used for calculating a mathematical

> model than anything to do with real cities/country .

> so u shud understand that the basic problem is understanding the

reality

> ,there may b 1000 commentaries even the best among them also may b

> faulty ,where as truth will b one and one only

>

> The problem is our misundestanding to identify truth .

>

> thanks for ur time

>

> rgrds sunil nair

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear malla ji alias wrestler ji i am giving a chart of my known person,a boy His chart is known to atleast a dozen ppl in this forum So i am giving u details and can u reveal any events past present or future abt this boy ??applying ur so called sayan paksha ?? can u show me any abilites or is this boy is good student or rank holder or a child prodigy ?? u r free to explain any of ur findings Natal Chart April 26, 1992Time: 10:24:00Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)Place: 76 E 55' 00", 8 N 29' 00" Trivandrum, IndiaLunar Yr-Mo: Angirasa - VaisakhaTithi: Krishna Navami (Su) (32.21% left)Vedic Weekday: Sunday (Su)Nakshatra: Poorvabhadra (Ju) (97.37% left)Yoga: Vaidhriti (Ju) (25.75% left)Karana: Garija (Ju) (64.42% left)Hora Lord: Saturn (5 min sign: Ar)Since i find u r advocating such concept in the name of protecting astrology ,so i am thinking u may b already got wonderfull results with such models i request all tropicalists also to try this chart what ever they can reveal tru neo system is welcome here using tropical chart and vedic principles rgrds sunil nair , Hari Malla <harimalla wrote:>> Dear Boaz,> This indeed is a good news.The result will surely be exciting.After the result please intimate about it to us all.> But one thing is certain which we must all know.Both tropical and sidereal zodiacs are necessary for the vedic astrology.The two sankrantis are to be within the same full moon zone.This is the only parameter for the coordination of the two.This is known by the experts of vedic calendar( Dharma shastris).The very word vedic means concerning dharma shastras.So no matter what the result, the only way to save vedic jyotish is by shifting all the rashis by 30 degrees by the sayan or the tropical way and apply the nirayan system for another 1500 to 2000 years.This is in accordance with the vedanga jyotish principles.This is the only traditinal way to reform.It is a foregone conclusion, if any one wants ot come to lasting solution.> regards,> Hari Malla

[Guest guest]

sorry i forget to mention here The nakshtra and details shown in below chart details is tru tropical zodiac , "sunil nair" <astro_tellerkerala wrote:>> > > Dear malla ji alias wrestler ji> > i am giving a chart of my known person,a boy> > His chart is known to atleast a dozen ppl in this forum> > So i am giving u details and can u reveal any events past present or> future abt this boy ??> applying ur so called sayan paksha ?? can u show me any abilites or is> this boy is good student or rank holder or a child prodigy ?? u r free> to explain any of ur findings> > > > > Natal Chart> > April 26, 1992> Time: 10:24:00> Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)> Place: 76 E 55' 00", 8 N 29' 00"> Trivandrum, India> > Lunar Yr-Mo: Angirasa - Vaisakha> Tithi: Krishna Navami (Su) (32.21% left)> Vedic Weekday: Sunday (Su)> Nakshatra: Poorvabhadra (Ju) (97.37% left)> Yoga: Vaidhriti (Ju) (25.75% left)> Karana: Garija (Ju) (64.42% left)> Hora Lord: Saturn (5 min sign: Ar)> > Since i find u r advocating such concept in the name of protecting> astrology ,so i am thinking u may b already got wonderfull results with> such models> > i request all tropicalists also to try this chart> > what ever they can reveal tru neo system is welcome here using tropical> chart and vedic principles> > rgrds sunil nair> > > > > > > , Hari Malla> harimalla@ wrote:> >> > Dear Boaz,> > This indeed is a good news.The result will surely be exciting.After> the result please intimate about it to us all.> > But one thing is certain which we must all know.Both tropical and> sidereal zodiacs are necessary for the vedic astrology.The two> sankrantis are to be within the same full moon zone.This is the only> parameter for the coordination of the two.This is known by the experts> of vedic calendar( Dharma shastris).The very word vedic means concerning> dharma shastras.So no matter what the result, the only way to save vedic> jyotish is by shifting all the rashis by 30 degrees by the sayan or the> tropical way and apply the nirayan system for another 1500 to 2000> years.This is in accordance with the vedanga jyotish principles.This is> the only traditinal way to reform.It is a foregone conclusion, if any> one wants ot come to lasting solution.> > regards,> > Hari Malla>

[Guest guest]

dear Zaobnali ji it will make sense to every one who ever dont understand what is vedic astrology principles how the laws r being formed and tested on real life charts ,atleast try on prashna which can giv results in short period of time ( i already explained in last 2 posts abt my concerns and u dont hav any answer for pointers mentioned other than it makes sense to u for such reserch,every reserch is welcome unless it is a short cut for some quick fame by deviating general public ) other wise we hav lot of theoretitions still roaming around and they r also adament to make us to accept their theoreis which they even claims it is brahma vakyas happy reserch and let us know ur results i posted a chart and u can explain me what makes sense here if u want i am reposting that chart , a boy April 26, 1992Time: 10:24:00Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)Place: 76 E 55' 00", 8 N 29' 00" Trivandrum, Indiaany reading will welcome but i need explanation tru vedic astro principles rgrds sunil nair , "zaobnali" <zaob16 wrote:>> Dear Sunil,> > Ernst's work makes sense to me. It is my understanding that the ancient> texts have not been preserved without corruption and people like Ernst> are trying to carry tests in order to validate one interpretation or> another. The fact that majority of Indian people are practicing the> sidereal zodiac does not validate it. Similarly mid age most Europeans> believed the world is flat following Church tradition and dogma. I don't> know enough about the origin of Yamakoti. Please ask Ernst for his> opinion. Thanks.> > Best,> Boaz> > > , "sunil nair"> astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> >> > dear zaobnali ji> >> > It is happy to know that u r a scientist ,astrology is not a science> in> > physical sense of science which demands 2+2 is 4 ,then u may hav to go> > disappointed> >> > Astrology is a sastra which has its own rules to arrive at its results> > ,it has nothing in common with modern science .even science agrees or> > not ,or if it agree tomorrow it is not our problem .> >> > if some one dont understand a ancient treatise it doesnot allow him to> > deviate frm what was traditionaly being practised ( he can do what> ever> > way he feels like but no right to teach or spread a misconception as> > reserch or some thing ) ,even if we cannot answer u also doesnot> means> > it does giv u authority to say that astrology which is practised by> > major section of india is wrong .> >> > i would like to point out 4 cities mentioned in surya sidhantha in the> > article by earnest ji ( he thinks it is some real places )> >> > yamakoti ,romaka ,sidhapuri and Lanka ( to locate 4 quadrants )> >> > did u try to locate it ?? lanka is a name still avilable ?? what was> > result ?? why dont u take it as a pointer ??> > Also do u know one thing the gypsies who still claims of indian origin> > in european countries they calls themself as ROMA tribe ,why ?? it> says> > they carried lot of information to western countries ??Why dont u> equate> > them with roma a ancient empire ??Romaka real meaning in sanskrit is> > hairy ( roma means hair ,so may b some grp of ppl who has long hairs> as> > a fashion --i just suggesting a diffrnt meaning ,so now what u think> > this ancient romaka sidhantha is came frm rome or ppl of romaka> > country/group /tribe or rishi kula in india itself or a rishi who was> > being called as Romaka ??> >> > all this names are fictious Names used for calculating a mathematical> > model than anything to do with real cities/country .> > so u shud understand that the basic problem is understanding the> reality> > ,there may b 1000 commentaries even the best among them also may b> > faulty ,where as truth will b one and one only> >> > The problem is our misundestanding to identify truth .> >> > thanks for ur time> >> > rgrds sunil nair> >> >>

[Guest guest]

Quote

 

The two sankrantis are to be within the same full moon zone.This is the only parameter for the coordination of the two.

 

Unquote

 

Vedic reference please?

 

-SIKB--- On Fri, 5/15/09, Hari Malla <harimalla wrote:

Hari Malla <harimallaRe: Test of tropical versus sidereal zodiac Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 5:50 AM

 

 

 

 

Dear Boaz,

This indeed is a good news.The result will surely be exciting.After the result please intimate about it to us all.

But one thing is certain which we must all know.Both tropical and sidereal zodiacs are necessary for the vedic astrology.The two sankrantis are to be within the same full moon zone.This is the only parameter for the coordination of the two.This is known by the experts of vedic calendar( Dharma shastris).The very word vedic means concerning dharma shastras.So no matter what the result, the only way to save vedic jyotish is by shifting all the rashis by 30 degrees by the sayan or the tropical way and apply the nirayan system for another 1500 to 2000 years.This is in accordance with the vedanga jyotish principles.This is the only traditinal way to reform.It is a foregone conclusion, if any one wants ot come to lasting solution.

regards,

Hari Malla

 

 

 

zaobnali <zaob16 (AT) gmail (DOT) com>ancient_indian_ astrologyFriday, May 15, 2009 5:12:03 PM[ancient_indian_ astrology] Test of tropical versus sidereal zodiac

 

Dear All, Glad to join this forum.Vedic astrologer Ersnt Wilhelm is conducting a statistical query to determine which of the zodiacs - tropical or sidereal - works better. Those of you who are interested and have an accurate time of birth are encouraged to fill out the test. Ernst reports that test 2 is showing some quite rewarding results. So far more than 378 people have taken the test and results are consistently aligning with the same calculations on all three questions, which is quite exciting. Hopefully a few hundred more people will take the test over the weekend and then he can reveal the results to you all. http://www.isjyotis h.com/Thanks,Boaz

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

 

The positions of all the nine grahas in the Tropical Zodiac are ayanamsha-corrected in the Sidereal Zodiac. So this means the a reoriented Tropical Ziodiac fits in the Sidereal Zodiac and the interaction between the grahas based on the angles relative to each other are the same in both the Zodiacs. On top of it the Sidereal Zodiac takes into account the additional effects of the Nakshatras. So in my opinion the Sidereal predictions are bound to be more precise.

 

Regards,

 

Sunl K. Bhattacharjya--- On Fri, 5/15/09, zaobnali <zaob16 wrote:

zaobnali <zaob16 Test of tropical versus sidereal zodiac Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 4:27 AM

 

 

Dear All, Glad to join this forum.Vedic astrologer Ersnt Wilhelm is conducting a statistical query to determine which of the zodiacs - tropical or sidereal - works better. Those of you who are interested and have an accurate time of birth are encouraged to fill out the test. Ernst reports that test 2 is showing some quite rewarding results. So far more than 378 people have taken the test and results are consistently aligning with the same calculations on all three questions, which is quite exciting. Hopefully a few hundred more people will take the test over the weekend and then he can reveal the results to you all. http://www.isjyotis h.com/Thanks,Boaz

[Guest guest]

Hello,

 

I think it is important to understand conceptually what the rasis mean. The

rasis, for example, have certain qualities, mobile, fixed and mutable, as well

as the four elements. These qualities 3x4 = 12 rasis. The Sun sets these

qualities in motion and the tropical zodiac is Sun based. The moveable signs

Aries, Cancer, Libra and Capricorn coincide with the solstices and equinoxes. In

addition it turns out that the ancient scripts actually seem to suggest that the

rishis used the tropical zodiac (see Ernst's article on Ayanamsha). It may be

that the sidereal zodiac will eventually be proven correct but we can not ignore

the tropical zodiac and the reasoning behind, which is why such studies are

important.

 

Thanks

Boaz

 

, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

> Dear All,

>  

> The positions of all the nine grahas in the Tropical Zodiac are

ayanamsha-corrected in the Sidereal Zodiac. So this means the a reoriented

Tropical Ziodiac fits in the Sidereal Zodiac and the interaction between the

grahas based on the angles relative to each other are the same in both the

Zodiacs. On top of it the Sidereal Zodiac takes into account the additional

effects of the Nakshatras. So in my opinion the Sidereal predictions are bound

to be more precise.

>  

> Regards,

>  

> Sunl K. Bhattacharjya

>

> --- On Fri, 5/15/09, zaobnali <zaob16 wrote:

>

>

> zaobnali <zaob16

> Test of tropical versus sidereal zodiac

>

> Friday, May 15, 2009, 4:27 AM

>

>

Dear All,

>

> Glad to join this forum.

>

> Vedic astrologer Ersnt Wilhelm is conducting a statistical query to determine

which of the zodiacs - tropical or sidereal - works better. Those of you who are

interested and have an accurate time of birth are encouraged to fill out the

test. Ernst reports that test 2 is showing some quite rewarding results. So far

more than 378 people have taken the test and results are consistently aligning

with the same calculations on all three questions, which is quite exciting.

Hopefully a few hundred more people will take the test over the weekend and then

he can reveal the results to you all.

>

> http://www.isjyotis h.com/

>

> Thanks,

> Boaz

>

[Guest guest]

Respected Sunil Nair ji,

Thanks again for the good reply. I would like to add that astrology is a science

because of it is bases on systematic study and calculations of

Astronomy.Secondly of the Cause and Effect and thirdly of replication of the

events and so on. The predation is an art. It depends on the knowledge,

experience and devotion to the art. In astrology we want to compass the ever

changing Time. The time in not stationary, always changing  Every moment is

different from the previous moment. So the tropical and Sidereal zodiac is

necessary such as Moon is moving around the Earth, Earth is moving around the

Sun. Now we want to land on Moon form moving Earth to moving Moon. A tropical

zodiac. We have done it as if Earth is stationary and Moon is stationary,

sidereal zodiac. Both are necessary We have to calculate from moving zodiac to

stationary zodiac sidereal zodiac. Other wise how can we land on the Moon on the

precised spot in precised time?

Regards

--- On Fri, 5/15/09, sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala wrote:

 

 

sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala

Re: Test of tropical versus sidereal zodiac

 

Friday, May 15, 2009, 11:33 PM

 

 

dear zaobnali ji

 

It is happy to know that u r a scientist ,astrology is not a science in physical

sense of science which demands 2+2 is 4 ,then u may hav to go disappointed

 

Astrology is a sastra which has its own rules to arrive at its results  ,it has

nothing in common with modern science .even science agrees or not ,or if it

agree tomorrow it  is not our problem .

 

if some one dont understand a ancient treatise it doesnot allow him to deviate

frm what was traditionaly being practised ( he can do what ever way he feels

like but no right  to teach or spread a misconception as reserch or some thing

)  ,even if we cannot answer u also doesnot means it does  giv u authority to

say that astrology which is practised by major section of india is wrong .

 

i would like to point out 4 cities mentioned in surya sidhantha in the article

by earnest ji ( he thinks it is some real places  )

 

yamakoti ,romaka ,sidhapuri and Lanka ( to locate 4 quadrants )

 

did u try to locate it ?? lanka is a name still avilable ??  what was result ?? 

why dont u take it as a pointer ??

Also do u know one thing the gypsies who still claims of indian origin in 

european countries they calls themself as ROMA tribe ,why ?? it says they

carried lot of information to western countries ??Why dont u equate them with

roma a ancient empire ??Romaka real meaning in sanskrit is hairy ( roma means

hair ,so may b some grp of ppl who has long hairs as a fashion --i just

suggesting a diffrnt meaning ,so now what u think this ancient romaka sidhantha

is came frm rome or ppl of romaka country/group /tribe or rishi kula  in india

itself or a rishi who was being called as Romaka ??

 

all this names are fictious Names used for calculating a mathematical model than

anything to do with real cities/country  .

so u shud understand that the basic problem is understanding the reality ,there

may b 1000 commentaries even the best among them also may b faulty ,where as

truth will b one and one only

 

The problem is our misundestanding to identify truth .

 

thanks for ur time

 

rgrds sunil nair

 

 

, " zaobnali " <zaob16 wrote:

>

> Hello All,

>

> Thank you for following up on this important topic. You may find it

interesting to study the material on the ayanamsha available here:

> http://www.vedic astrology.net/FreeClasses/Ayanamsa-and-Rasis.asp

> http://actastrology.com/viewforum.php?f=10

>

> I appreciate very much Ernst's scientific approach and wish his endeavor at

the Institute of Scientific Jyotish best of luck. Myself I am a scientist by

occupation.

>

> Regards,

> Boaz

>

> , " sunil nair "

astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:

> >

> >

> > dear Kursija ji

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> > rgrds sunil nair

> > , " S.C. Kursija "

> > <sckursija@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Respected Sunil Nair,

> > > Thanks for the befitting reply. The fixed and moving i.e. Naraina and

> > Sayana system both are essential for the Astrology.The Naraina system is

> > essential for the Jataka and Sayana system is essential for the Mundane

> > > Regards

> > >

> > > --- On Fri, 5/15/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@

> > > Re: Test of tropical versus

> > sidereal zodiac

> > >

> > > Friday, May 15, 2009, 7:47 PM

> > >

> > > dear grp

> > >

> > > I know abt this reserch work of ernestwilhem but i doubt its success

> > ,Mr >ernest ji is also memebr of our forum too

> > >

> > > All the rules available is based on a fixed zodiac ,so with the rules

> > how he can b successful in such a mission ,instead of popularising such

> > a event he shud hav done it in prashna first silently and then in natal

> > chart and he himself can see the results

> > >

> > > other wise what he will call for each rasi ?? who is Lord of it .How

> > he will take exaltation or debilation degree in new rasi ?? if Moon is

> > showing a diffrnt nakshtra wat is his authority to use Vimshottary dasa

> > for it ?? how he use various other pointers prescribed by rishies ,all

> > principles based on siderial zodiac including mrityu bhaga ?? So can he

> > make diffrnt HOra (astrological treatise ) for this new avatar

> > >

> > > No personal abuse intented here except the call for re surrection of

> > old glory and re serch of old dictums and see it s applicablity first

> > than going for diffrnt models ,if some body can sponsor it i am ready to

> > offer my services along with ancient expertise ( there is still old

> > masters available for advises in villages of kerala and india ) and

> > books ,also hints for where many books are lying around if some one can

> > arrnage resource for collecting it and preserving it for future

> > generations

> > >

> > > rgrds sunil nair

> > >

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > > > zaobnali zaob16@

> > > >

> > > > Friday, May 15, 2009 5:12:03 PM

> > > > Test of tropical versus sidereal

> > zodiac

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear All,

> > > >

> > > > Glad to join this forum.

> > > >

> > > > Vedic astrologer Ersnt Wilhelm is conducting a statistical query to

> > determine which of the zodiacs - tropical or sidereal - works better.

> > Those of you who are interested and have an accurate time of birth are

> > encouraged to fill out the test. Ernst reports that test 2 is showing

> > some quite rewarding results. So far more than 378 people have taken the

> > test and results are consistently aligning with the same calculations on

> > all three questions, which is quite exciting. Hopefully a few hundred

> > more people will take the test over the weekend and then he can reveal

> > the results to you all.

> > > >

> > > > http://www.isjyotish.com/

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > > Boaz

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear zaobnali ji U said it is importnt to know quality of rasies its attributes r not for a moving zodiac as raisies are not meant for seasons as astrological zodiac is not ritu chakra ( or seasonal one ) ,if so it cannot explain the karmic results .also u shud know that rasi chakra is not zodiac the english word it is rahu -shikhi chakra so in short rasi chakra .( i find many people r misleading or misleaded by seeing english translations ) also u forget why Nakshtra s as back ground is taken in vedic astrology just 3 prashna if u do ( in practical sense ) with both charts will resolv ur problem ,than u do this reserch unless u r in diffrnt mission ,as i already done this reserch b4 16 yrs and arrive at this results within 3 days rgrds sunil nair , "zaobnali" <zaob16 wrote:>> Hello, > > I think it is important to understand conceptually what the rasis mean. The rasis, for example, have certain qualities, mobile, fixed and mutable, as well as the four elements. These qualities 3x4 = 12 rasis. The Sun sets these qualities in motion and the tropical zodiac is Sun based. The moveable signs Aries, Cancer, Libra and Capricorn coincide with the solstices and equinoxes. In addition it turns out that the ancient scripts actually seem to suggest that the rishis used the tropical zodiac (see Ernst's article on Ayanamsha). It may be that the sidereal zodiac will eventually be proven correct but we can not ignore the tropical zodiac and the reasoning behind, which is why such studies are important. > > Thanks> Boaz > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya sunil_bhattacharjya@ wrote:> >> > Dear All,> > > > The positions of all the nine grahas in the Tropical Zodiac are ayanamsha-corrected in the Sidereal Zodiac. So this means the a reoriented Tropical Ziodiac fits in the Sidereal Zodiac and the interaction between the grahas based on the angles relative to each other are the same in both the Zodiacs. On top of it the Sidereal Zodiac takes into account the additional effects of the Nakshatras. So in my opinion the Sidereal predictions are bound to be more precise.> > > > Regards,> > > > Sunl K. Bhattacharjya> > > > --- On Fri, 5/15/09, zaobnali zaob16@ wrote:> > > > > > zaobnali zaob16@> > Test of tropical versus sidereal zodiac> > > > Friday, May 15, 2009, 4:27 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > Glad to join this forum.> > > > Vedic astrologer Ersnt Wilhelm is conducting a statistical query to determine which of the zodiacs - tropical or sidereal - works better. Those of you who are interested and have an accurate time of birth are encouraged to fill out the test. Ernst reports that test 2 is showing some quite rewarding results. So far more than 378 people have taken the test and results are consistently aligning with the same calculations on all three questions, which is quite exciting. Hopefully a few hundred more people will take the test over the weekend and then he can reveal the results to you all. > > > > http://www.isjyotis h.com/> > > > Thanks,> > Boaz> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Kursija ji Thanks for ur mail we r not against science ,astronomical mathematics and astrological mathematics is same in begining and diffrce in later part .so for astrology we cannot take tropical zodiacs It is the opinion of even our scientists who works in ISRO and VSSC ( the space institutes of india ) u shud know that our leader of chandrayan mission (shri madhavan nair ) took a muhurtha to launch a space vehicle and he is aware of astrology and astronomy and also space science too .Where as only few so called astronomers out of their inferiority complex is talking against siderial zodiac as they dont know the diffrnce too Thanks for ur mail and time rgrds sunil nair , "S.C. Kursija" <sckursija wrote:>> Respected Sunil Nair ji,> Thanks again for the good reply. I would like to add that astrology is a science because of it is bases on systematic study and calculations of Astronomy.Secondly of the Cause and Effect and thirdly of replication of the events and so on. The predation is an art. It depends on the knowledge, experience and devotion to the art. In astrology we want to compass the ever changing Time. The time in not stationary, always changing Every moment is different from the previous moment. So the tropical and Sidereal zodiac is necessary such as Moon is moving around the Earth, Earth is moving around the Sun. Now we want to land on Moon form moving Earth to moving Moon. A tropical zodiac. We have done it as if Earth is stationary and Moon is stationary, sidereal zodiac. Both are necessary We have to calculate from moving zodiac to stationary zodiac sidereal zodiac. Other wise how can we land on the Moon on the precised spot in precised time?> Regards> --- On Fri, 5/15/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala wrote:> > > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala Re: Test of tropical versus sidereal zodiac> > Friday, May 15, 2009, 11:33 PM> > > dear zaobnali ji> > It is happy to know that u r a scientist ,astrology is not a science in physical sense of science which demands 2+2 is 4 ,then u may hav to go disappointed> > Astrology is a sastra which has its own rules to arrive at its results ,it has nothing in common with modern science .even science agrees or not ,or if it agree tomorrow it is not our problem .> > if some one dont understand a ancient treatise it doesnot allow him to deviate frm what was traditionaly being practised ( he can do what ever way he feels like but no right to teach or spread a misconception as reserch or some thing ) ,even if we cannot answer u also doesnot means it does giv u authority to say that astrology which is practised by major section of india is wrong .> > i would like to point out 4 cities mentioned in surya sidhantha in the article by earnest ji ( he thinks it is some real places )> > yamakoti ,romaka ,sidhapuri and Lanka ( to locate 4 quadrants )> > did u try to locate it ?? lanka is a name still avilable ?? what was result ?? why dont u take it as a pointer ??> Also do u know one thing the gypsies who still claims of indian origin in european countries they calls themself as ROMA tribe ,why ?? it says they carried lot of information to western countries ??Why dont u equate them with roma a ancient empire ??Romaka real meaning in sanskrit is hairy ( roma means hair ,so may b some grp of ppl who has long hairs as a fashion --i just suggesting a diffrnt meaning ,so now what u think this ancient romaka sidhantha is came frm rome or ppl of romaka country/group /tribe or rishi kula in india itself or a rishi who was being called as Romaka ??> > all this names are fictious Names used for calculating a mathematical model than anything to do with real cities/country .> so u shud understand that the basic problem is understanding the reality ,there may b 1000 commentaries even the best among them also may b faulty ,where as truth will b one and one only> > The problem is our misundestanding to identify truth .> > thanks for ur time> > rgrds sunil nair> > > , "zaobnali" zaob16@ wrote:> >> > Hello All,> >> > Thank you for following up on this important topic. You may find it interesting to study the material on the ayanamsha available here:> > http://www.vedic astrology.net/FreeClasses/Ayanamsa-and-Rasis.asp> > http://actastrology.com/viewforum.php?f=10> >> > I appreciate very much Ernst's scientific approach and wish his endeavor at the Institute of Scientific Jyotish best of luck. Myself I am a scientist by occupation.> >> > Regards,> > Boaz> >> > , "sunil nair" astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > dear Kursija ji> > >> > > Thanks> > >> > > rgrds sunil nair> > > , "S.C. Kursija"> > > <sckursija@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Respected Sunil Nair,> > > > Thanks for the befitting reply. The fixed and moving i.e. Naraina and> > > Sayana system both are essential for the Astrology.The Naraina system is> > > essential for the Jataka and Sayana system is essential for the Mundane> > > > Regards> > > >> > > > --- On Fri, 5/15/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@> > > > Re: Test of tropical versus> > > sidereal zodiac> > > > > > > > Friday, May 15, 2009, 7:47 PM> > > >> > > > dear grp> > > >> > > > I know abt this reserch work of ernestwilhem but i doubt its success> > > ,Mr >ernest ji is also memebr of our forum too> > > >> > > > All the rules available is based on a fixed zodiac ,so with the rules> > > how he can b successful in such a mission ,instead of popularising such> > > a event he shud hav done it in prashna first silently and then in natal> > > chart and he himself can see the results> > > >> > > > other wise what he will call for each rasi ?? who is Lord of it .How> > > he will take exaltation or debilation degree in new rasi ?? if Moon is> > > showing a diffrnt nakshtra wat is his authority to use Vimshottary dasa> > > for it ?? how he use various other pointers prescribed by rishies ,all> > > principles based on siderial zodiac including mrityu bhaga ?? So can he> > > make diffrnt HOra (astrological treatise ) for this new avatar> > > >> > > > No personal abuse intented here except the call for re surrection of> > > old glory and re serch of old dictums and see it s applicablity first> > > than going for diffrnt models ,if some body can sponsor it i am ready to> > > offer my services along with ancient expertise ( there is still old> > > masters available for advises in villages of kerala and india ) and> > > books ,also hints for where many books are lying around if some one can> > > arrnage resource for collecting it and preserving it for future> > > generations> > > >> > > > rgrds sunil nair> > > >> > > >> > > > ________________________________> > > > > zaobnali zaob16@> > > > > > > > > > Friday, May 15, 2009 5:12:03 PM> > > > > Test of tropical versus sidereal> > > zodiac> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Dear All,> > > > >> > > > > Glad to join this forum.> > > > >> > > > > Vedic astrologer Ersnt Wilhelm is conducting a statistical query to> > > determine which of the zodiacs - tropical or sidereal - works better.> > > Those of you who are interested and have an accurate time of birth are> > > encouraged to fill out the test. Ernst reports that test 2 is showing> > > some quite rewarding results. So far more than 378 people have taken the> > > test and results are consistently aligning with the same calculations on> > > all three questions, which is quite exciting. Hopefully a few hundred> > > more people will take the test over the weekend and then he can reveal> > > the results to you all.> > > > >> > > > > http://www.isjyotish.com/> > > > >> > > > > Thanks,> > > > > Boaz> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Hello,

 

So it appears that you are not aware that Rashi is mentioned in the Vedanga

Jyotisha, which is an ancient text. Secondly it also appears that you are not

aware of the genesis and etymology of the word Rashi. Why don't you see a

Sanskrit dictionary before talking about Rashi? You will find there that Rashi

means a group. In Indian Jyotish shastra Rashis are groups of  fixed Nakshatras

and they cannot move. The Tropical Zodiac later on took the word Rashi from the

Sidereal Zodiac as they could not coin an apprprpiate word for for the 12

divisions for the moving Tropical Zodiac.

 

Sincerely,

 

Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

 

 

 

 

--- On Fri, 5/15/09, zaobnali <zaob16 wrote:

 

 

zaobnali <zaob16

Re: Test of tropical versus sidereal zodiac

 

Friday, May 15, 2009, 9:49 PM

 

Hello,

 

I think it is important to understand conceptually what the rasis mean. The

rasis, for example, have certain qualities, mobile, fixed and mutable, as well

as the four elements. These qualities 3x4 = 12 rasis. The Sun sets these

qualities in motion and the tropical zodiac is Sun based. The moveable signs

Aries, Cancer, Libra and Capricorn coincide with the solstices and equinoxes. In

addition it turns out that the ancient scripts actually seem to suggest that the

rishis used the tropical zodiac (see Ernst's article on Ayanamsha). It may be

that the sidereal zodiac will eventually be proven correct but we can not ignore

the tropical zodiac and the reasoning behind, which is why such studies are

important.

 

Thanks

Boaz

 

ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

>

> Dear All,

>  

> The positions of all the nine grahas in the Tropical Zodiac are

ayanamsha-corrected in the Sidereal Zodiac. So this means the a reoriented

Tropical Ziodiac fits in the Sidereal Zodiac and the interaction between the

grahas based on the angles relative to each other are the same in both the

Zodiacs. On top of it the Sidereal Zodiac takes into account the additional

effects of the Nakshatras. So in my opinion the Sidereal predictions are bound

to be more precise.

>  

> Regards,

>  

> Sunl K. Bhattacharjya

>

> --- On Fri, 5/15/09, zaobnali <zaob16 wrote:

>

>

> zaobnali <zaob16

> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Test of tropical versus sidereal zodiac

> ancient_indian_ astrology

> Friday, May 15, 2009, 4:27 AM

>

>

Dear All,

>

> Glad to join this forum.

>

> Vedic astrologer Ersnt Wilhelm is conducting a statistical query to determine

which of the zodiacs - tropical or sidereal - works better. Those of you who are

interested and have an accurate time of birth are encouraged to fill out the

test. Ernst reports that test 2 is showing some quite rewarding results. So far

more than 378 people have taken the test and results are consistently aligning

with the same calculations on all three questions, which is quite exciting.

Hopefully a few hundred more people will take the test over the weekend and then

he can reveal the results to you all.

>

> http://www.isjyotis h.com/

>

> Thanks,

> Boaz

>

[Guest guest]

Hello,

 

I do not believe in a subjective reality. I believe that A equals A and

that A does not equal B.

 

I do know the meaning of the word Rashi . I was referring to their

attributes. Thank you for your kind words.

 

Sri Yukteswar advocated science and the use of logic. He has also met

with tremendous opposition due to his attempt to align holidays with

objective realities and due to the face that he was not born brahmin.

 

Thank you for those of who filled the test.

 

Boaz

 

 

, sunil_bhattacharjya

wrote:

>

> Hello,

>

> So it appears that you are not aware that Rashi is mentioned in the

Vedanga Jyotisha, which is an ancient text. Secondly it also appears

that you are not aware of the genesis and etymology of the word Rashi.

Why don't you see a Sanskrit dictionary before talking about Rashi? You

will find there that Rashi means a group. In Indian Jyotish shastra

Rashis are groups of fixed Nakshatras and they cannot move. The

Tropical Zodiac later on took the word Rashi from the Sidereal Zodiac as

they could not coin an apprprpiate word for for the 12 divisions for the

moving Tropical Zodiac.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>

>

>

>

> --- On Fri, 5/15/09, zaobnali zaob16 wrote:

>

>

> zaobnali zaob16

> Re: Test of tropical versus

sidereal zodiac

>

> Friday, May 15, 2009, 9:49 PM

>

> Hello,

>

> I think it is important to understand conceptually what the rasis

mean. The rasis, for example, have certain qualities, mobile, fixed and

mutable, as well as the four elements. These qualities 3x4 = 12 rasis.

The Sun sets these qualities in motion and the tropical zodiac is Sun

based. The moveable signs Aries, Cancer, Libra and Capricorn coincide

with the solstices and equinoxes. In addition it turns out that the

ancient scripts actually seem to suggest that the rishis used the

tropical zodiac (see Ernst's article on Ayanamsha). It may be that the

sidereal zodiac will eventually be proven correct but we can not ignore

the tropical zodiac and the reasoning behind, which is why such studies

are important.

>

> Thanks

> Boaz

>

> ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil

Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> >

> > Dear All,

> >

> > The positions of all the nine grahas in the Tropical Zodiac are

ayanamsha-corrected in the Sidereal Zodiac. So this means the a

reoriented Tropical Ziodiac fits in the Sidereal Zodiac and the

interaction between the grahas based on the angles relative to each

other are the same in both the Zodiacs. On top of it the Sidereal Zodiac

takes into account the additional effects of the Nakshatras. So in my

opinion the Sidereal predictions are bound to be more precise.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Sunl K. Bhattacharjya

> >

> > --- On Fri, 5/15/09, zaobnali zaob16@ wrote:

> >

> >

> > zaobnali zaob16@

> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Test of tropical versus

sidereal zodiac

> > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > Friday, May 15, 2009, 4:27 AM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear All,

> >

> > Glad to join this forum.

> >

> > Vedic astrologer Ersnt Wilhelm is conducting a statistical query to

determine which of the zodiacs - tropical or sidereal - works better.

Those of you who are interested and have an accurate time of birth are

encouraged to fill out the test. Ernst reports that test 2 is showing

some quite rewarding results. So far more than 378 people have taken the

test and results are consistently aligning with the same calculations on

all three questions, which is quite exciting. Hopefully a few hundred

more people will take the test over the weekend and then he can reveal

the results to you all.

> >

> > http://www.isjyotis h.com/

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Boaz

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhattacharjyaji,

Namaskar! Study of vedic calender practice and the vedic calendar reform

paractice are both important for ascertaining this fact, that both the sayan and

nirayan sankrantis should be within the same fullmoon zone.Once a person knows

this for sure, calendar reform becomes a easy job.Lack of this study has

troubled the modern hindus between the unending dispute between sayan and

nirayan systems.

The vedic system is simultaneously sayan(tropical) and nirayan(sidereal).Many

people wonder how it can be both sayan and nirayan at the same time.That is to

be understood by concentration and careful analysis of our vedic soli-lunar

calendar; that is the compreheensive vedic method of calendar practice and

reform both.

We should be conversant with the simultaneity of three factors- the sayan

sankranti,the nirayan sankranti and the lunar uttrayan or vshuvat dates.The

coordination of the three was always done in the past.Only in the modern times

we are faltering on how to accomplish it.This is due to modern western influence

of solar sayan (tropical) dates, which has given rise to the two camps of

thought, sidereal and tropical.

By analysing vedanga jyotish system of how the five year yuga,the semi sidereal

lunar month of magha, the tropical lunar Tapa sukla pratipada and uttrayan can

start simutaneously for nearly 1700 years from 1400 BC to 285 AD, when the sun

and the moon were in dhanistha, we can understand our system well.This is how we

analyse.The nirayan sankranti was- sun in dhanistha all that period.The tropical

lunar Tapa sukla pratipada fluctuated from the first of makar rashi to the end

of rashi, as you well know. Magha sukla pratipada does that even today,

fluctuating during the nearly three year period cycle( form adhimas to

adhimas)over the whole month of magha from the first to the last of the

month.This was the lunar uttrayan date.

Again over that whole period, the sayan sankranti representing tropical uttrayan

travelled over 7 padas of makar rashi, from the beginning of dhanistha

nakshyatra to the beginning of makar rashi.

In short, the uttrayan lunar pratipada embraced both the sayan uttarayan and

nirayan uttarayan for that period and thus coordinating both.Thus the formula

is- the lunar uttarayan date should coordinate both the sayan sankranti and the

nirayan sankrantis.

When Barah mihir and others did calendar reform, they maintained the old vedanga

sytem of haveing both the sayan sankranti and the nirayan sankranti by the lunar

uttayan which was shifted to poush fullmoon.At present the uttarayan lunar date

being still Poush purnima, it should have coordinated both the sayan uttarayan

sankranti and the nirayan uttrayan sankranti (makar sankti) by touching both

within the three year period of the fluctuation of the adhimaas,although,it did

served this purpose for about 1100 years after 285AD till the early 15th.

century.But after that it has stopped coordinating the two sankrantis, when the

ayanamsa increased more than 15 degrees.Thus to bring about the same situation

of coordination, we have to shift the nirayan sankranti by 30 degrees, so we

maintain our present nirayan rashi system relevant in our soli-lunar system now

also.

This method keeps alive the rules of our nirayan astrology and the present

dharma shastras intact, the way it is supposed to be.We don't have to change a

single word in our shastras.We only change the ayansamsa from 24 degrees ot -6

degrees and bring our calender back to its solar and lunar seasons and dates.

Many people think we do not have to bother about the seasons.If we are not to

bother about the seasons, then why do we have the adhimas in the first place.Is

it not to actualise the lunar seasons that we have the adhimas? Is it not

because the Moslems do not have adhimas that they have no lunar seasons.Why do

we call our Dashehara festivals 'Sharad navaratra' if it should not fall in

sharad ritu. Thus if our calendar is to be vedic, how can it forget our dharma

shastra.Is veda not our dharma only?

Of ocurse astrology should also continue smoothly.But the best method seems now

to let astrology have its freedom whether to use the old rashis or the reformedd

new epochal rashis, which in my view would be more acurate.But till faith

develops in the new epochal rashis, those who want may continue with the old

rashis itsslef.But they sould not be a hindrance to the reformation of our vedic

calender. The festivals are their dharma as well .

Regards,

Hari Malla

 

 

 

 

, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

>

> Quote

>

> The two sankrantis are to be within the same full moon zone.This is the only

parameter for the coordination of the two.

>

> Unquote

>

> Vedic reference please?

>

> -SIKB

>

> --- On Fri, 5/15/09, Hari Malla <harimalla wrote:

>

>

> Hari Malla <harimalla

> Re: Test of tropical versus sidereal

zodiac

>

> Friday, May 15, 2009, 5:50 AM

>

>

>

>

Dear Boaz,

> This indeed is a good news.The result will surely be exciting.After the result

please intimate about it to us all.

> But one thing is certain which we must all know.Both tropical and sidereal

zodiacs are necessary for the vedic astrology.The two sankrantis are to be

within the same full moon zone.This is the only parameter for the coordination

of the two.This is known by the experts of vedic calendar( Dharma shastris).The

very word vedic means concerning dharma shastras.So no matter what the result,

the only way to save vedic jyotish is by shifting all the rashis by 30 degrees

by the sayan or the tropical way and apply the nirayan system for another 1500

to 2000 years.This is in accordance with the vedanga jyotish principles.This is

the only traditinal way to reform.It is a foregone conclusion, if any one wants

ot come to lasting solution.

> regards,

> Hari Malla

>

>

>

>

>

> zaobnali <zaob16 (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

> ancient_indian_ astrology

> Friday, May 15, 2009 5:12:03 PM

> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Test of tropical versus sidereal zodiac

>

>

>

> Dear All,

>

> Glad to join this forum.

>

> Vedic astrologer Ersnt Wilhelm is conducting a statistical query to determine

which of the zodiacs - tropical or sidereal - works better. Those of you who are

interested and have an accurate time of birth are encouraged to fill out the

test. Ernst reports that test 2 is showing some quite rewarding results. So far

more than 378 people have taken the test and results are consistently aligning

with the same calculations on all three questions, which is quite exciting.

Hopefully a few hundred more people will take the test over the weekend and then

he can reveal the results to you all.

>

> http://www.isjyotis h.com/

>

> Thanks,

> Boaz

>

 

 

 

, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:

>

>  

> Quote

>  

> The two sankrantis are to be within the same full moon zone.This is the only

parameter for the coordination of the two.

>  

> Unquote

>  

> Vedic reference please?

>  

> -SIKB

>

> --- On Fri, 5/15/09, Hari Malla <harimalla wrote:

>

>

> Hari Malla <harimalla

> Re: Test of tropical versus sidereal

zodiac

>

> Friday, May 15, 2009, 5:50 AM

>

>

>

>

Dear Boaz,

> This indeed is a good news.The result will surely be exciting.After the result

please intimate about it to us all.

> But one thing is certain which we must all know.Both tropical and sidereal

zodiacs are necessary for the vedic astrology.The two sankrantis are to be

within the same full moon zone.This is the only parameter for the coordination

of the two.This is known by the experts of vedic calendar( Dharma shastris).The

very word vedic means concerning dharma shastras.So no matter what the result,

the only way to save vedic jyotish is by shifting all the rashis by 30 degrees

by the sayan or the tropical way and apply the nirayan system for another 1500

to 2000 years.This is in accordance with the vedanga jyotish principles.This is

the only traditinal way to reform.It is a foregone conclusion, if any one wants

ot come to lasting solution.

> regards,

> Hari Malla

>

>

>

>

>

> zaobnali <zaob16 (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

> ancient_indian_ astrology

> Friday, May 15, 2009 5:12:03 PM

> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Test of tropical versus sidereal zodiac

>

>

>

> Dear All,

>

> Glad to join this forum.

>

> Vedic astrologer Ersnt Wilhelm is conducting a statistical query to determine

which of the zodiacs - tropical or sidereal - works better. Those of you who are

interested and have an accurate time of birth are encouraged to fill out the

test. Ernst reports that test 2 is showing some quite rewarding results. So far

more than 378 people have taken the test and results are consistently aligning

with the same calculations on all three questions, which is quite exciting.

Hopefully a few hundred more people will take the test over the weekend and then

he can reveal the results to you all.

>

> http://www.isjyotis h.com/

>

> Thanks,

> Boaz

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Zaobnali ,

 

Your comment on Shri Yukteshwar ji -

 

" He has also met> with tremendous opposition due to his attempt to

align holidays with > objective realities and due to the face that he

was not born brahmin. "

 

Can you please elaborate and authenticate the above ? Where can we get

to read the above if it is really true, which I am sure is not.

 

regards,

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " zaobnali " <zaob16

wrote:

>

> Hello,

>

> I do not believe in a subjective reality. I believe that A equals A

and

> that A does not equal B.

>

> I do know the meaning of the word Rashi . I was referring to their

> attributes. Thank you for your kind words.

>

> Sri Yukteswar advocated science and the use of logic. He has also met

> with tremendous opposition due to his attempt to align holidays with

> objective realities and due to the face that he was not born brahmin.

>

> Thank you for those of who filled the test.

>

> Boaz

>

>

> , sunil_bhattacharjya@

> wrote:

> >

> > Hello,

> >

> > So it appears that you are not aware that Rashi is mentioned in the

> Vedanga Jyotisha, which is an ancient text. Secondly it also appears

> that you are not aware of the genesis and etymology of the word Rashi.

> Why don't you see a Sanskrit dictionary before talking about Rashi?

You

> will find there that Rashi means a group. In Indian Jyotish shastra

> Rashis are groups of fixed Nakshatras and they cannot move. The

> Tropical Zodiac later on took the word Rashi from the Sidereal Zodiac

as

> they could not coin an apprprpiate word for for the 12 divisions for

the

> moving Tropical Zodiac.

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --- On Fri, 5/15/09, zaobnali zaob16@ wrote:

> >

> >

> > zaobnali zaob16@

> > Re: Test of tropical versus

> sidereal zodiac

> >

> > Friday, May 15, 2009, 9:49 PM

> >

> > Hello,

> >

> > I think it is important to understand conceptually what the rasis

> mean. The rasis, for example, have certain qualities, mobile, fixed

and

> mutable, as well as the four elements. These qualities 3x4 = 12 rasis.

> The Sun sets these qualities in motion and the tropical zodiac is Sun

> based. The moveable signs Aries, Cancer, Libra and Capricorn coincide

> with the solstices and equinoxes. In addition it turns out that the

> ancient scripts actually seem to suggest that the rishis used the

> tropical zodiac (see Ernst's article on Ayanamsha). It may be that the

> sidereal zodiac will eventually be proven correct but we can not

ignore

> the tropical zodiac and the reasoning behind, which is why such

studies

> are important.

> >

> > Thanks

> > Boaz

> >

> > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil

> Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > >

> > > The positions of all the nine grahas in the Tropical Zodiac are

> ayanamsha-corrected in the Sidereal Zodiac. So this means the a

> reoriented Tropical Ziodiac fits in the Sidereal Zodiac and the

> interaction between the grahas based on the angles relative to each

> other are the same in both the Zodiacs. On top of it the Sidereal

Zodiac

> takes into account the additional effects of the Nakshatras. So in my

> opinion the Sidereal predictions are bound to be more precise.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Sunl K. Bhattacharjya

> > >

> > > --- On Fri, 5/15/09, zaobnali zaob16@ wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > zaobnali zaob16@

> > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Test of tropical versus

> sidereal zodiac

> > > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > > Friday, May 15, 2009, 4:27 AM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > >

> > > Glad to join this forum.

> > >

> > > Vedic astrologer Ersnt Wilhelm is conducting a statistical query

to

> determine which of the zodiacs - tropical or sidereal - works better.

> Those of you who are interested and have an accurate time of birth are

> encouraged to fill out the test. Ernst reports that test 2 is showing

> some quite rewarding results. So far more than 378 people have taken

the

> test and results are consistently aligning with the same calculations

on

> all three questions, which is quite exciting. Hopefully a few hundred

> more people will take the test over the weekend and then he can reveal

> the results to you all.

> > >

> > > http://www.isjyotis h.com/

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Boaz

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskar,

 

If you are so sure then why bother?

 

regards,

 

Boaz

 

, " Bhaskar "

<bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

>

>

> Dear Zaobnali ,

>

> Your comment on Shri Yukteshwar ji -

>

> " He has also met> with tremendous opposition due to his attempt to

> align holidays with > objective realities and due to the face that he

> was not born brahmin. "

>

> Can you please elaborate and authenticate the above ? Where can we get

> to read the above if it is really true, which I am sure is not.

>

> regards,

>

> Bhaskar.

>

>

>

, " zaobnali " zaob16@

> wrote:

> >

> > Hello,

> >

> > I do not believe in a subjective reality. I believe that A equals A

> and

> > that A does not equal B.

> >

> > I do know the meaning of the word Rashi . I was referring to their

> > attributes. Thank you for your kind words.

> >

> > Sri Yukteswar advocated science and the use of logic. He has also

met

> > with tremendous opposition due to his attempt to align holidays with

> > objective realities and due to the face that he was not born

brahmin.

> >

> > Thank you for those of who filled the test.

> >

> > Boaz

> >

> >

> > ,

sunil_bhattacharjya@

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Hello,

> > >

> > > So it appears that you are not aware that Rashi is mentioned in

the

> > Vedanga Jyotisha, which is an ancient text. Secondly it also appears

> > that you are not aware of the genesis and etymology of the word

Rashi.

> > Why don't you see a Sanskrit dictionary before talking about Rashi?

> You

> > will find there that Rashi means a group. In Indian Jyotish shastra

> > Rashis are groups of fixed Nakshatras and they cannot move. The

> > Tropical Zodiac later on took the word Rashi from the Sidereal

Zodiac

> as

> > they could not coin an apprprpiate word for for the 12 divisions for

> the

> > moving Tropical Zodiac.

> > >

> > > Sincerely,

> > >

> > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --- On Fri, 5/15/09, zaobnali zaob16@ wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > zaobnali zaob16@

> > > Re: Test of tropical versus

> > sidereal zodiac

> > >

> > > Friday, May 15, 2009, 9:49 PM

> > >

> > > Hello,

> > >

> > > I think it is important to understand conceptually what the rasis

> > mean. The rasis, for example, have certain qualities, mobile, fixed

> and

> > mutable, as well as the four elements. These qualities 3x4 = 12

rasis.

> > The Sun sets these qualities in motion and the tropical zodiac is

Sun

> > based. The moveable signs Aries, Cancer, Libra and Capricorn

coincide

> > with the solstices and equinoxes. In addition it turns out that the

> > ancient scripts actually seem to suggest that the rishis used the

> > tropical zodiac (see Ernst's article on Ayanamsha). It may be that

the

> > sidereal zodiac will eventually be proven correct but we can not

> ignore

> > the tropical zodiac and the reasoning behind, which is why such

> studies

> > are important.

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > Boaz

> > >

> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil

> > Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear All,

> > > >

> > > > The positions of all the nine grahas in the Tropical Zodiac are

> > ayanamsha-corrected in the Sidereal Zodiac. So this means the a

> > reoriented Tropical Ziodiac fits in the Sidereal Zodiac and the

> > interaction between the grahas based on the angles relative to each

> > other are the same in both the Zodiacs. On top of it the Sidereal

> Zodiac

> > takes into account the additional effects of the Nakshatras. So in

my

> > opinion the Sidereal predictions are bound to be more precise.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Sunl K. Bhattacharjya

> > > >

> > > > --- On Fri, 5/15/09, zaobnali zaob16@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > zaobnali zaob16@

> > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Test of tropical versus

> > sidereal zodiac

> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > > > Friday, May 15, 2009, 4:27 AM

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear All,

> > > >

> > > > Glad to join this forum.

> > > >

> > > > Vedic astrologer Ersnt Wilhelm is conducting a statistical query

> to

> > determine which of the zodiacs - tropical or sidereal - works

better.

> > Those of you who are interested and have an accurate time of birth

are

> > encouraged to fill out the test. Ernst reports that test 2 is

showing

> > some quite rewarding results. So far more than 378 people have taken

> the

> > test and results are consistently aligning with the same

calculations

> on

> > all three questions, which is quite exciting. Hopefully a few

hundred

> > more people will take the test over the weekend and then he can

reveal

> > the results to you all.

> > > >

> > > > http://www.isjyotis h.com/

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > > Boaz

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr. Boaz,

I am in agreement with you.But my simple request is in our soli-lunar system,it

is not enough to take the solar viewpoint only.The present tropical view point

you are mentioning is purely solar season only.To this we also have to combine

the lunar seasonal viewpoint too.Thus even in astrology, we not only take the

lagan rashi, but also the chandra rashi and combine both.Thus unless there is

coordination of the lagan rashi and lunar rashi, astrology is not complete.For

this, we should have coordination of the solar and the lunar seasons.This

combination requires that the system remain nirayan for 1000 to 2000 years.Then

after that priod it is necessary to apply calender reform by shifting the

nirayan sankranti one fortnight or a whole month, so that the coordination of

the tropical, the sidereal systems including the luanr seasons occur.

Thus in our soli-lunar system the coordinated approach is abslutely

necessary.But many people, not able to understand this coordination between the

tropical, sidereal and lunar natures, think our sytem is either tropical or

sidereal only. This is their short sightedness.

In fact so few people understand it that way, that I feel, the concept of the

western tropical system and in opposition to it the indefinitely nirayan system

has cropped up.Both are in the dark concerning our comprehensive or

cooridinated system.This comprehensive system may be called as the lunar

tropical system if you like, which incudes the sidereal system for aboout 1000

to 2000 years.

I hope I have given some idea of the vedic system which is both sidereal and

tropical at the same time.

At the present time, we have to shift the rashis by 30 degreees backwards and

thus both the solar and the lunar months in a coordinated way, so that the true

spirit of the Vedas is fulfilled.This is the gist of the calendar reform

movement presently being carried out.

thanking you,I remain,

Sincerly yours,

Hari Malla

 

, " zaobnali " <zaob16 wrote:

>

> Hello,

>

> I do not believe in a subjective reality. I believe that A equals A and

> that A does not equal B.

>

> I do know the meaning of the word Rashi . I was referring to their

> attributes. Thank you for your kind words.

>

> Sri Yukteswar advocated science and the use of logic. He has also met

> with tremendous opposition due to his attempt to align holidays with

> objective realities and due to the face that he was not born brahmin.

>

> Thank you for those of who filled the test.

>

> Boaz

>

>

> , sunil_bhattacharjya@

> wrote:

> >

> > Hello,

> >

> > So it appears that you are not aware that Rashi is mentioned in the

> Vedanga Jyotisha, which is an ancient text. Secondly it also appears

> that you are not aware of the genesis and etymology of the word Rashi.

> Why don't you see a Sanskrit dictionary before talking about Rashi? You

> will find there that Rashi means a group. In Indian Jyotish shastra

> Rashis are groups of fixed Nakshatras and they cannot move. The

> Tropical Zodiac later on took the word Rashi from the Sidereal Zodiac as

> they could not coin an apprprpiate word for for the 12 divisions for the

> moving Tropical Zodiac.

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --- On Fri, 5/15/09, zaobnali zaob16@ wrote:

> >

> >

> > zaobnali zaob16@

> > Re: Test of tropical versus

> sidereal zodiac

> >

> > Friday, May 15, 2009, 9:49 PM

> >

> > Hello,

> >

> > I think it is important to understand conceptually what the rasis

> mean. The rasis, for example, have certain qualities, mobile, fixed and

> mutable, as well as the four elements. These qualities 3x4 = 12 rasis.

> The Sun sets these qualities in motion and the tropical zodiac is Sun

> based. The moveable signs Aries, Cancer, Libra and Capricorn coincide

> with the solstices and equinoxes. In addition it turns out that the

> ancient scripts actually seem to suggest that the rishis used the

> tropical zodiac (see Ernst's article on Ayanamsha). It may be that the

> sidereal zodiac will eventually be proven correct but we can not ignore

> the tropical zodiac and the reasoning behind, which is why such studies

> are important.

> >

> > Thanks

> > Boaz

> >

> > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil

> Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > >

> > > The positions of all the nine grahas in the Tropical Zodiac are

> ayanamsha-corrected in the Sidereal Zodiac. So this means the a

> reoriented Tropical Ziodiac fits in the Sidereal Zodiac and the

> interaction between the grahas based on the angles relative to each

> other are the same in both the Zodiacs. On top of it the Sidereal Zodiac

> takes into account the additional effects of the Nakshatras. So in my

> opinion the Sidereal predictions are bound to be more precise.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Sunl K. Bhattacharjya

> > >

> > > --- On Fri, 5/15/09, zaobnali zaob16@ wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > zaobnali zaob16@

> > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Test of tropical versus

> sidereal zodiac

> > > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > > Friday, May 15, 2009, 4:27 AM

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > >

> > > Glad to join this forum.

> > >

> > > Vedic astrologer Ersnt Wilhelm is conducting a statistical query to

> determine which of the zodiacs - tropical or sidereal - works better.

> Those of you who are interested and have an accurate time of birth are

> encouraged to fill out the test. Ernst reports that test 2 is showing

> some quite rewarding results. So far more than 378 people have taken the

> test and results are consistently aligning with the same calculations on

> all three questions, which is quite exciting. Hopefully a few hundred

> more people will take the test over the weekend and then he can reveal

> the results to you all.

> > >

> > > http://www.isjyotis h.com/

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Boaz

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

________________________________

" harimalla " <harimalla

 

Saturday, May 16, 2009 6:46:28 PM

Re: Test of tropical versus sidereal zodiac

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Bhattacharjyaji,

Namaskar! Study of vedic calender practice and the vedic calendar reform

paractice are both important for ascertaining this fact, that both the sayan and

nirayan sankrantis should be within the same fullmoon zone.Once a person knows

this for sure, calendar reform becomes a easy job.Lack of this study has

troubled the modern hindus between the unending dispute between sayan and

nirayan systems.

The vedic system is simultaneously sayan(tropical) and nirayan(sidereal) .Many

people wonder how it can be both sayan and nirayan at the same time.That is to

be understood by concentration and careful analysis of our vedic soli-lunar

calendar; that is the compreheensive vedic method of calendar practice and

reform both.

We should be conversant with the simultaneity of three factors- the sayan

sankranti,the nirayan sankranti and the lunar uttrayan or vshuvat dates.The

coordination of the three was always done in the past.Only in the modern times

we are faltering on how to accomplish it.This is due to modern western influence

of solar sayan (tropical) dates, which has given rise to the two camps of

thought, sidereal and tropical.

By analysing vedanga jyotish system of how the five year yuga,the semi sidereal

lunar month of magha, the tropical lunar Tapa sukla pratipada and uttrayan can

start simutaneously for nearly 1700 years from 1400 BC to 285 AD, when the sun

and the moon were in dhanistha, we can understand our system well.This is how we

analyse.The nirayan sankranti was- sun in dhanistha all that period.The tropical

lunar Tapa sukla pratipada fluctuated from the first of makar rashi to the end

of rashi, as you well know. Magha sukla pratipada does that even today,

fluctuating during the nearly three year period cycle( form adhimas to

adhimas)over the whole month of magha from the first to the last of the

month.This was the lunar uttrayan date.

Again over that whole period, the sayan sankranti representing tropical uttrayan

travelled over 7 padas of makar rashi, from the beginning of dhanistha

nakshyatra to the beginning of makar rashi.

In short, the uttrayan lunar pratipada embraced both the sayan uttarayan and

nirayan uttarayan for that period and thus coordinating both.Thus the formula

is- the lunar uttarayan date should coordinate both the sayan sankranti and the

nirayan sankrantis.

When Barah mihir and others did calendar reform, they maintained the old vedanga

sytem of haveing both the sayan sankranti and the nirayan sankranti by the lunar

uttayan which was shifted to poush fullmoon.At present the uttarayan lunar date

being still Poush purnima, it should have coordinated both the sayan uttarayan

sankranti and the nirayan uttrayan sankranti (makar sankti) by touching both

within the three year period of the fluctuation of the adhimaas,although, it did

served this purpose for about 1100 years after 285AD till the early 15th.

century.But after that it has stopped coordinating the two sankrantis, when the

ayanamsa increased more than 15 degrees.Thus to bring about the same situation

of coordination, we have to shift the nirayan sankranti by 30 degrees, so we

maintain our present nirayan rashi system relevant in our soli-lunar system now

also.

This method keeps alive the rules of our nirayan astrology and the present

dharma shastras intact, the way it is supposed to be.We don't have to change a

single word in our shastras.We only change the ayansamsa from 24 degrees ot -6

degrees and bring our calender back to its solar and lunar seasons and dates.

Many people think we do not have to bother about the seasons.If we are not to

bother about the seasons, then why do we have the adhimas in the first place.Is

it not to actualise the lunar seasons that we have the adhimas? Is it not

because the Moslems do not have adhimas that they have no lunar seasons.Why do

we call our Dashehara festivals 'Sharad navaratra' if it should not fall in

sharad ritu. Thus if our calendar is to be vedic, how can it forget our dharma

shastra.Is veda not our dharma only?

Of ocurse astrology should also continue smoothly.But the best method seems now

to let astrology have its freedom whether to use the old rashis or the reformedd

new epochal rashis, which in my view would be more acurate.But till faith

develops in the new epochal rashis, those who want may continue with the old

rashis itsslef.But they sould not be a hindrance to the reformation of our vedic

calender. The festivals are their dharma as well .

Regards,

Hari Malla

 

ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

>

>

> Quote

>

> The two sankrantis are to be within the same full moon zone.This is the only

parameter for the coordination of the two.

>

> Unquote

>

> Vedic reference please?

>

> -SIKB

>

> --- On Fri, 5/15/09, Hari Malla <harimalla@. ..> wrote:

>

>

> Hari Malla <harimalla@. ..>

> Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Test of tropical versus sidereal

zodiac

> ancient_indian_ astrology

> Friday, May 15, 2009, 5:50 AM

>

>

>

>

Dear Boaz,

> This indeed is a good news.The result will surely be exciting.After the result

please intimate about it to us all.

> But one thing is certain which we must all know.Both tropical and sidereal

zodiacs are necessary for the vedic astrology.The two sankrantis are to be

within the same full moon zone.This is the only parameter for the coordination

of the two.This is known by the experts of vedic calendar( Dharma shastris).The

very word vedic means concerning dharma shastras.So no matter what the result,

the only way to save vedic jyotish is by shifting all the rashis by 30 degrees

by the sayan or the tropical way and apply the nirayan system for another 1500

to 2000 years.This is in accordance with the vedanga jyotish principles.This is

the only traditinal way to reform.It is a foregone conclusion, if any one wants

ot come to lasting solution.

> regards,

> Hari Malla

>

>

>

>

>

> zaobnali <zaob16 (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

> ancient_indian_ astrology

> Friday, May 15, 2009 5:12:03 PM

> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Test of tropical versus sidereal zodiac

>

>

>

> Dear All,

>

> Glad to join this forum.

>

> Vedic astrologer Ersnt Wilhelm is conducting a statistical query to determine

which of the zodiacs - tropical or sidereal - works better. Those of you who are

interested and have an accurate time of birth are encouraged to fill out the

test. Ernst reports that test 2 is showing some quite rewarding results. So far

more than 378 people have taken the test and results are consistently aligning

with the same calculations on all three questions, which is quite exciting.

Hopefully a few hundred more people will take the test over the weekend and then

he can reveal the results to you all.

>

> http://www.isjyotis h.com/

>

> Thanks,

> Boaz

>

 

ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

>

>  

> Quote

>  

> The two sankrantis are to be within the same full moon zone.This is the only

parameter for the coordination of the two.

>  

> Unquote

>  

> Vedic reference please?

>  

> -SIKB

>

> --- On Fri, 5/15/09, Hari Malla <harimalla@. ..> wrote:

>

>

> Hari Malla <harimalla@. ..>

> Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Test of tropical versus sidereal

zodiac

> ancient_indian_ astrology

> Friday, May 15, 2009, 5:50 AM

>

>

>

>

Dear Boaz,

> This indeed is a good news.The result will surely be exciting.After the result

please intimate about it to us all.

> But one thing is certain which we must all know.Both tropical and sidereal

zodiacs are necessary for the vedic astrology.The two sankrantis are to be

within the same full moon zone.This is the only parameter for the coordination

of the two.This is known by the experts of vedic calendar( Dharma shastris).The

very word vedic means concerning dharma shastras.So no matter what the result,

the only way to save vedic jyotish is by shifting all the rashis by 30 degrees

by the sayan or the tropical way and apply the nirayan system for another 1500

to 2000 years.This is in accordance with the vedanga jyotish principles.This is

the only traditinal way to reform.It is a foregone conclusion, if any one wants

ot come to lasting solution.

> regards,

> Hari Malla

>

>

>

>

>

> zaobnali <zaob16 (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

> ancient_indian_ astrology

> Friday, May 15, 2009 5:12:03 PM

> [ancient_indian_ astrology] Test of tropical versus sidereal zodiac

>

>

>

> Dear All,

>

> Glad to join this forum.

>

> Vedic astrologer Ersnt Wilhelm is conducting a statistical query to determine

which of the zodiacs - tropical or sidereal - works better. Those of you who are

interested and have an accurate time of birth are encouraged to fill out the

test. Ernst reports that test 2 is showing some quite rewarding results. So far

more than 378 people have taken the test and results are consistently aligning

with the same calculations on all three questions, which is quite exciting.

Hopefully a few hundred more people will take the test over the weekend and then

he can reveal the results to you all.

>

> http://www.isjyotis h.com/

>

> Thanks,

> Boaz

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Boaz,

 

we are not small children that we can utter any nonsense and get away

with it. Either one should not speak in a public forum, or else if he

speaks then must have some weight inside him to show, when a explanation

is demanded.

 

When you speak about such great personalities like " Shri Yukteshwarji "

and add his good name to corroborate your chatter, then you must be

eligible with some quantity and quality to do so.

 

Will you not bother if your grandfathers name is used by a exponent of

some incorrible nonsense theory ? In same way I bear certain

relationship with " Shri Yukteshwar " which you need not be told about,

which makes me speak for Him. Either accept that what you have written

about him is " Not true " or else get down to collecting evidence fast.

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

, " zaobnali " <zaob16

wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar,

>

> If you are so sure then why bother?

>

> regards,

>

> Boaz

>

> , " Bhaskar "

> bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear Zaobnali ,

> >

> > Your comment on Shri Yukteshwar ji -

> >

> > " He has also met> with tremendous opposition due to his attempt to

> > align holidays with > objective realities and due to the face that

he

> > was not born brahmin. "

> >

> > Can you please elaborate and authenticate the above ? Where can we

get

> > to read the above if it is really true, which I am sure is not.

> >

> > regards,

> >

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , " zaobnali " zaob16@

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Hello,

> > >

> > > I do not believe in a subjective reality. I believe that A equals

A

> > and

> > > that A does not equal B.

> > >

> > > I do know the meaning of the word Rashi . I was referring to their

> > > attributes. Thank you for your kind words.

> > >

> > > Sri Yukteswar advocated science and the use of logic. He has also

> met

> > > with tremendous opposition due to his attempt to align holidays

with

> > > objective realities and due to the face that he was not born

> brahmin.

> > >

> > > Thank you for those of who filled the test.

> > >

> > > Boaz

> > >

> > >

> > > ,

> sunil_bhattacharjya@

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Hello,

> > > >

> > > > So it appears that you are not aware that Rashi is mentioned in

> the

> > > Vedanga Jyotisha, which is an ancient text. Secondly it also

appears

> > > that you are not aware of the genesis and etymology of the word

> Rashi.

> > > Why don't you see a Sanskrit dictionary before talking about

Rashi?

> > You

> > > will find there that Rashi means a group. In Indian Jyotish

shastra

> > > Rashis are groups of fixed Nakshatras and they cannot move. The

> > > Tropical Zodiac later on took the word Rashi from the Sidereal

> Zodiac

> > as

> > > they could not coin an apprprpiate word for for the 12 divisions

for

> > the

> > > moving Tropical Zodiac.

> > > >

> > > > Sincerely,

> > > >

> > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --- On Fri, 5/15/09, zaobnali zaob16@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > zaobnali zaob16@

> > > > Re: Test of tropical versus

> > > sidereal zodiac

> > > >

> > > > Friday, May 15, 2009, 9:49 PM

> > > >

> > > > Hello,

> > > >

> > > > I think it is important to understand conceptually what the

rasis

> > > mean. The rasis, for example, have certain qualities, mobile,

fixed

> > and

> > > mutable, as well as the four elements. These qualities 3x4 = 12

> rasis.

> > > The Sun sets these qualities in motion and the tropical zodiac is

> Sun

> > > based. The moveable signs Aries, Cancer, Libra and Capricorn

> coincide

> > > with the solstices and equinoxes. In addition it turns out that

the

> > > ancient scripts actually seem to suggest that the rishis used the

> > > tropical zodiac (see Ernst's article on Ayanamsha). It may be that

> the

> > > sidereal zodiac will eventually be proven correct but we can not

> > ignore

> > > the tropical zodiac and the reasoning behind, which is why such

> > studies

> > > are important.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > > Boaz

> > > >

> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil

> > > Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear All,

> > > > >

> > > > > The positions of all the nine grahas in the Tropical Zodiac

are

> > > ayanamsha-corrected in the Sidereal Zodiac. So this means the a

> > > reoriented Tropical Ziodiac fits in the Sidereal Zodiac and the

> > > interaction between the grahas based on the angles relative to

each

> > > other are the same in both the Zodiacs. On top of it the Sidereal

> > Zodiac

> > > takes into account the additional effects of the Nakshatras. So in

> my

> > > opinion the Sidereal predictions are bound to be more precise.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > Sunl K. Bhattacharjya

> > > > >

> > > > > --- On Fri, 5/15/09, zaobnali zaob16@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > zaobnali zaob16@

> > > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Test of tropical versus

> > > sidereal zodiac

> > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology

> > > > > Friday, May 15, 2009, 4:27 AM

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear All,

> > > > >

> > > > > Glad to join this forum.

> > > > >

> > > > > Vedic astrologer Ersnt Wilhelm is conducting a statistical

query

> > to

> > > determine which of the zodiacs - tropical or sidereal - works

> better.

> > > Those of you who are interested and have an accurate time of birth

> are

> > > encouraged to fill out the test. Ernst reports that test 2 is

> showing

> > > some quite rewarding results. So far more than 378 people have

taken

> > the

> > > test and results are consistently aligning with the same

> calculations

> > on

> > > all three questions, which is quite exciting. Hopefully a few

> hundred

> > > more people will take the test over the weekend and then he can

> reveal

> > > the results to you all.

> > > > >

> > > > > http://www.isjyotis h.com/

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > Boaz

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>