[WAVES-Vedic] Secrets of the earth

[Guest guest]

Gunees,

 

This is utter nonsense you are writing -

 

" Mum,Dad, taking money for advice, go to nearest park, sniff the flowers

etc.etc. "

 

You should go to some other List. This List is for humans and not for the ones

who are expert in sniffing and known as the most faithful companions of man.

 

I told you I am not interested in exchanging mails with you since I understood

your depth of knowledge long back, so please excuse me here.

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Gunes Aksan " <gunesaksan wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar,

>

> This is the last mail that I am writing to you, I do not need any kind of

> responses from you.

>

> You requested for some proofs, i did not write some proofs yet.

> There are some good proofs but you may be sooo

> busy, in fact,

> we are not busy to read all the letters you wrote, we have time and we have

> an ''obligation''

> to read, as you think

> and we are accused to unread?

>

> I do not have time to read all your letters.

>

> You ask for one thread and you shut down shortly.

> It seems that you have already decided, before the beginning, to reject

> everything.

> Your decision, is only yours, so please keep it. May God helps you.

>

>

>

> Why not doing something for yourself? *only for you*

> Advices, you are taking money with advices, don' t you?

>

>

> 1) Shut down your computer,

> 2) Say to Mum and Daddy that you will return soon,

> oh no, really and really I will come back soon,

> 3) Go to the nearest park

> 4) Sniff the flowers and look to the big trees. Sniff them,

> you will be ok.

>

> Perhaps, on the way back home,

> you may understand that astrology is not yours.

> You may rejoice. It can be.

>

>

> Astrology is for all of us, for all of us humans.

>

>

> Please take care of yourself.

>

[Guest guest]

Why indeed Rohini<grin>

-

Rohiniranjan

Friday, April 03, 2009 12:53 AM

Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Secrets of the earth

 

 

And why stop at Astrology, or even just divination -- Marg?

 

Just a thought ...

 

RR

 

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Dear R

> Yes each tradition is worthy of study so why say one is better than another

as each have something new to teach, thank goodness, which means the ocean of

astrology is as vast as we could wish for.

> best wishes

> M

> -

> Rohiniranjan

>

> Wednesday, April 01, 2009 11:54 PM

> Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Secrets of the earth

>

>

> Marg,

>

> I think the air is getting a bit dusty on this thread :-)

> Addey was to my best belief not using harmonics as a 'spin' on the jyotish

varga system! I think he was taken more by the mathematical/musical basis of

Harmonics! That said, it is interesting that eastern and western practitioners

have tuned into, separately or jointly or sequentially (who cares?) on the basic

fact that both systems in a sense utilize the underlying theme of harmonics even

though the specifics may differ! Can no one see the 'beauty' and elegance in

that possibility?

>

> The same thing about the Vimshottari dasha! Jyotish uses the progression of

moon as the basis of dasha although it may not be described so literally!

Something that KP tuned into if one stops fighting and ponders calmly on that

simple observation!

>

> If reincarnation is the TRUTH and all believe in that, it is futile to fight

over what is Indian and what is not, because what one is today, one may not have

been in the past birth and perhaps would not be so in the next birth. Let us all

remember that and at the same time, let us remember that what we currently

attribute to an alien culture may in some birth become our own. The critical

thing is to bring the passion and zeal to then that life-plan in our own or

different culture (which will be a moot point, because in that birth time it

would become our own culture!). This ALSO implies that we should respect other

cultures and also be thankful for anything we received from that culture,

because it all comes back home, if one thinks in a long long stretched out

string of reincarnations.

>

> I realize that some religions do not believe in or have not permitted their

believers to focus too much on that which many of us believe in as a reality,

but then that represents a conceptual and communication gap! :-)

>

> RR

>

> , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Rohini

> > Thanks for telling me about Leo's interest in the divisional system, I

haven't come across that in any of the few works of his I have read.

> > I'm not sure of whether Addey did defer to the Indian system or not,

though he was an academic researcher and would have had to declare his sources

in his final works. The book I have says that Addey was keen on Pythagorean

harmonics and that he wanted to promote linear astrology so that the 'sine

waveforms' could more easily be set up and used in research.

> > best wishes

> > M

> >

> >

> >

> > -

> > Rohiniranjan

> >

> > Wednesday, April 01, 2009 12:04 AM

> > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Secrets of the earth

> >

> >

> > Dear Marg,

> >

> > While Addey may have developed the 'harmonic' concept more fully, Alan Leo

who was around before Addey was born, had been using divisions before that. I

recall reading this mentioned in one of Raman's articles or writings and also

going way way back I have the recollection that Alan Leo in this " Esoteric

Astrology " touched upon the concept. I do not clearly recall if he attributed it

to the Indian system or not. Not that it matters!

> >

> > RR

> >

> > , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Rohini

> > > There are many systems of progressions in western astrology ie primary,

secondary and tertiary progression.

> > > Ít was John Addey who first introduced the 'harmonics'or divisional

charts system into western astrology, though few have practised it.

> > > However, as you say, even Ptolemy refers to subdivisions of the ecliptic

path and signs which may be what prompted Addey to research subdivisions.

> > > Again I don't use them but I do respect all traditions of astrology and

therefore make it a priority to find out about all systems to see if there is

any value or use in them, rather than dismiss them out of hand without trying

them first; otherwise I become like those who say astrology/jyotish is rubbish,

when in fact they have never studied it themselves.

> > > best wishes

> > > M

> > >

> > > -

> > > Rohiniranjan

> > >

> > > Tuesday, March 31, 2009 3:08 AM

> > > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Secrets of the earth

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Sunil jee,

> > >

> > > The western/tropical system of astrology uses a system of progressing

the natal positions. They call it 'a degree a year progression' method. They do

not CALL it dasha!

> > >

> > > Here is the interesting thing (and those who have heard this from me

many many times earlier, please hold your tongue and frustration ;-))

> > >

> > > This degree a year progression actually is what we use in vimshottari

dasha. ONLY we call it progression of natal moon by 120 degrees in 120 years!

NOT a degree a year, although someone may wish to 'average' it and come up with

a degree a year. I am not saying that the followers of western astrology as laid

out by Ptolemy did!

> > >

> > > In vimshottari (120 degree in 120 years progression) though, there are

different rates of progression. The natal MOON moves through segments at

different rates as it moves through the segments attributed to ketu, surya,

chandra, bhaum, rahu, brihaspati, shani, budh, shukra at inequal rates with

shani and rahu and budha and brihaspati slowing down janma chandra while krura,

surya, ketu and chandra himself allowing faster passage if one wants to think of

it in that way.

> > >

> > > Tropicalists have also utilized in their framework of 'harmonics'

possibly imported by Alan Leo (if BV Raman's writings be followed) into western

astrology and I believe they still use the 'DWADs' or Dwadashamshas and

novile/nonile harmonics and so on.

> > >

> > > I have no idea how they actually use these in their system though!

> > >

> > > Rohiniranjan

> > >

> > > , Sunil Bhattacharjya

<sunil_bhattacharjya@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Marg,

> > > >

> > > > Is the Marg your first name or is it an assumed name?

> > > >

> > > > You are under wrong impression. There is no mention of Dasha etc. in

western astrology. However it is open to the westerners to learn Hindu astrology

and practice the same.

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > >

> > > > S

> > > >

> > > > --- On Sun, 3/29/09, Marg <margie9@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Marg <margie9@>

> > > > Re: Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Secrets of the earth

> > > >

> > > > Sunday, March 29, 2009, 1:35 AM

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Sunil

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I don't use these systems so have no books on the subject, however if

you search for the Kepler school of astrology you will find some books there

> > > >

> > > > best wishes

> > > >

> > > > M

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > >

> > > > Sunil Bhattacharjya

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Friday, March 27, 2009 10:08 PM

> > > >

> > > > Re: Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Secrets of the earth

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear M,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Please name some books on it.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > S

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --- On Fri, 3/27/09, Marg <margie9 (AT) talktalk (DOT) net> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Marg <margie9 (AT) talktalk (DOT) net>

> > > >

> > > > Re: Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Secrets of the earth

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Friday, March 27, 2009, 1:51 AM

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Sunil

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > In fact there is a dasa system in the western system, as well as a

tithi system, both are used extensively in mainland Europe especially. Both of

these systems in the tropical school are derived from Chaldean astrology.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > best wishes

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > M

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Sunil Bhattacharjya

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > waves-vedic

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Cc: ancient_indian_ astrology ; @

. com ; IndiaArchaeology@ gropups. com ; Raman

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:53 PM

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Secrets of the earth

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Ramanji,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > You wrote

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Quote

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I have always admired your no-nonsense scholarly and informed approach

to questions pertaining to <Vedic> astrology, and your valiant efforts through

balanced and rationally derived results to replace centuries of (what I regard

as) accumumulated errors.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Unquote

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > When it suits him Kaulji quotes the Monier Williams but he has now

conveniently not seen the meaning of the word " Rashi " in that dictionary. Rashi

means a group. In Jyotish Shastra it means a group of nakshatras. To make it

easy to identify the ancient jyotishis mentally drew lines joining the

nakshatras and arrived a some shapes resembling some known forms and accordingly

these rashis were named. This is in Sidereal system. In the Tropical system

there are 12 assumed divisions but etymologically these cannot be called rashi

and has not been called so in the ancient past. Instead of castigating the

adherents of Tropical system for using the word rashi he is attacking the

Sidereal system for using rashi from the ancient times of Bhagavat purana.. Is

it justifiable?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Manu told that the astrologers, temple priests and physicians among

several categories of professionals are not to be invited to participate in the

Devakaryas and Pitrikaryas. This shows that Manu acknowledges the existence of

astrology at his time also that people engaged in several very essential and

respectable professions are not supposed to participate in these ceremonies.

Kaulji says that astrology was not there in India in the ancient past and also

he (Kaulji) conveniently and selectively states that the practice of astrology

is not allowed by Manu. What type of scholarship is this?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Varahamihira said that even a Yavana is respected if he knows

astrology then what to speak of a Brahmin who knows astrology. Kaulji twisted

the meaning of that Sanskrit verse to say that Yavanas were respected by the

brahmins as the Yavanas knew astrology. Then he goes on to say that the Indians

learnt astrology from the Yavanas or Greeks. Firstly he does not know that

inhabitants of Pragjyotishpura (literally the earliest place of Jyotisha in the

world) were also called Yavana in Mahabharata, when Narakasura's son Bhagadatta

led the Yavanas. I also asked him if the Indians learnt astrology from the

Greeks why is it that the Dahsa, Antardasha and Pratyantardasha systems are not

there in Greek / Western astrology. In fact another scholar asked him why Tithi

and other such lunar astrolgical aspects are not there in Greek astrology. To

these he (Kaulji) has no answers.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Kaulji has been insisting that the Makar Sankranti is to be observed

on the Uttarayana day but he could not give a single scriptural reference as to

when was it celebrated in the ancient past on the Uttarayana day. Suryasiddhanta

did say that Uttarayana occurred when the Sun was in Makar rashi and as a

scientist you may be knowing that the Uttaraya occurred in Makar rashi only for

about 2200 years and it no linger occurs in the Makar rashi.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > He says that the grahas are not mentioned in the Vedas. Does he not

know that in Jyotish the Sun, the Moon, the Jupiter and the Rahu are also called

grahas and these are very much there in the Vedas. He said rashi is not there in

veda. He continues this tirade inspite of my pointing out that Vrishabha rashi

is there in the Veda.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Without knowing the facts he calls Varahamihira a Charlatan.

Fortunately for him Varahamihira is long dead otherwise he (Kaulji) would have

been hauled up in a court to prove what he says. Unfortunately I am the lone

Indian protesting against Kaulji's defaming of Varahamihira. I told him that

Varahamihira spoke of Sakendra kala or Sakanripa kala whereas Brahmagupta spoke

about Sakantakala. Kaulji does not know that these two kalas can be different

though he claims to have read all important astrological treatises, which

naturally include Varahamihira' s and Brahmagupta' s works. David Pingree made

the mistake of dating Varahamihira as he did not know the difference between

these two kalas. But now why Kaulji go on blindly repeating what Pingree says.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Manu mentioned Margashirsha, Phalguna and Chaitra as the months

suitable for war. Lord Krishna mentioned Margashirsha in Bhagavad Gita and these

are the calendrical months followed from the ancient times. The seasonal months

like Madhu and Madhava are also mentioned in Taittiriya Brahmana and these

seasonal months are to express the seasons. For example the Tapasya is best

perfomed in the Tapah month as this month is cooler and more suitable for

tapashya.. These seasonal months go on moving due to the precession of the

earth. So ceratin things will have to be observed according to the seasonal

months and certain other things will have to be observed according to the

calendical moths. This flexibility has always been there. But Kaulji wants to

derail this system by adamantly asking that the ancient calendrical months be

dropped.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > If there is any grey area that may be sorted out through dialogues but

not in the way Kaulji blindly and unjustifiably demands by mutilating facts. In

the light of the above will you kindly let us know why you made your above hasty

comment?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --- On Thu, 3/26/09, Raman <vvrsps@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Raman <vvrsps@>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Re: [WAVES-Vedic] Secrets of the earth

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com, waves-vedic

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Thursday, March 26, 2009, 7:06 AM

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Kaulji:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I have always admired your no-nonsense scholarly and informed approach

to questions pertaining to <Vedic> astrology, and your valiant efforts through

balanced and rationally derived results to replace centuries of (what I regard

as) accumumulated errors.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > While I wish you (and our culture) every success in these endeavors,

it is difficult, not to say frustrating, to argue with those who answer

objections to non-rational positions by saying that you " have not undergone the

discipline (sadhana) required to reveal certain timeless truths. "

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Recently Tariq Ramadan, a highly respected European Muslim, wrote in

the New York Times, that those who are not spiritually awakened cannot

understand the truths of the Qur'an, and that shut up a good many of the critics

of that Holy Book.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [in my own view this is also the secret of the stability and

stagnation of many cultures.]

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > There may be great metaphysical truths in such positions, and I

respect those who hold them.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Of course, the majority of the people simply quote this assertion by

some wise man because it conveniently evades difficult issues, and they seldom

speak from having practiced the sadhana themselves. Practitioners generally

don't engage in debates, whether on the internet or elsewhere; and when they do,

they rarely throw new light on old doctrines.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > In any event, for my part, I choose not to engage in debates with

people who offer this as a counter argument, because I know they are sincere and

are honestly convinced they possess higher truths which ordinary mortals are not

privy to.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Personally I don't mind being to be told that I simply don't and can't

understand because I am at a lower spiritual level than the one with whom I am

engaged in a conversation. I fully recognize that I am at a very low level in

the ladder of spiritual evolution.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > But I also feel that aside from belittling, discussions in such

contexts are really futile.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > With regards,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > V. V. Raman

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > March 26, 2009

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > __,,___

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >