Fwd: eclipse observed by Aryabhata in Kerala

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HinduCalendar , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

 

hinducivilization , " Vedaprakash "

<vedamvedaprakash@> wrote:

 

 

Saprema Namaskaram,

 

 

 

1. Under the caption, " Eclipse observed by Aryabhata in

Kerala " , Sri. R. N. Iyengar introduced, " Any one concerned about

the history of science as developed in ancient India will find the

recent research paper by Chandra Hari interesting

http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/aug102007/414.pdf

<http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/aug102007/414.pdf> . His caption of

posting and that of Hari's paper are one and the same.

 

 

 

1. He has also specifically mentioned, " Incidentally Chandra Hari

was an active member on IC-group for a long time " [RN Iyengar

(Posting no. 19232, 14-08-2007)].

 

 

 

1. So I responded, asking the following clarifications:

 

1. as I am now outside, right now, I am not able to mention a

book

brought out by one Keralite trying to show that Vararuci was

Aryabhata

and he was a native of Kerala and so on.

 

2. That the longitude passing through Hastinapura, Ujjaini, Kumari

and

Lanka cut Niraksha has been well known.

 

3. The verse that mentions " the four cities Yavakoti, Romaka,

Siddhapura

and Lanka are situated on Niraksha " is available repeatedly in

Siddhantic verses.

 

4. This shows that observations were made at those cities. So

Aryabhata

did it from where is debatable.

 

5. How " Kumari " could be equated with " Kerala " has to be proved.

 

6. What are the sources for the " legends " depended upon? The

manuscripts? The date of mss etc are required.

 

 

 

1. Now, he says, " Those who like to discuss the paper or question

the conclusions should naturally write to the editor of the Journal "

[RNI (19255, 14-08-2007)].

 

 

 

1. I do not think that he posted about it after writing to the

editor. His idea of posting had been to draw attention of the readers

and get opinion. Then, naturally, he should respond for the

clarifications asked instead of making it " official " and

" formal " . That is why in some other forums, rules for posting

have been framed.

 

 

 

1. The book I referred to has been written by one K. K.

Velukutty and

the title is " Heritages to and from Aryabhatta " published in

1997 by M/s. Sahithi, Elipara, Kozhipara, Palakad.

 

 

 

1. Claiming it as his " hypothesis " , he confesses that he has

" finalized " his hypothesis " as a continuation of the same

hypothesis " of Kesari Balakrishna Pillai (Charrithrathinde

Adiverukal, 1984). Velukutty in his methodology of " hypothesis based

on hypothesis " gives as follows:

 

 

 

Some of his conclusions on dates of events are:

 

\ Sri Rama ruled the empire only for twenty secen years in 24th

Chaduryuga (1722-1662 BC). The popular belief is he ruled the country

for ten thousand, one hundred and ten years.

 

\ Coronation of Yudhistra was in 1446 BC.

 

\ The Chera dynasty esatablished in 170 BC by Yedukulachera and

ended

in 1032 AD (Bhaskararavivarma) and so on.

 

Some of his conclusions on personalities are: Kumariklabhatta is

identified with Vararuchi of Parachipetta Panthirukulam and

Mochikiranar, Thiruvalluvar with Dharmakeerthi of Sankskrit

literature,

Haridatta, the mathematician with Ponmudiyar………

 

Some of his conclusions on incidents are:

 

V St. Thomas was assassinated by Machman, Samandan of Chera

dynasty

belonging to Polachi in 69 A. D.

 

V Arthasastra was written by Vishnugupta of Thirukazhukundram

near

Madras and so on.

 

Thus, I could find that it follows the pattern of L. D. Swamikannu

Pillai and John Bentley.

 

 

 

1. After going through, " Eclipse observed by Aryabhata in

Kerala " , I find that K. Chandra Hari has heavily depended on such

legends for his conclusions. He has to explain for his many other

surmises with dates when exactly such things could have happened –

 

" Aryabhata, being in touch with the Arabs at Ponnani, may have had

access to the Alexandrian sources of astronomy and so set out to

create

an indigenous system based on the prime meridian of Lanka " .

 

Z How Arabs came there?

 

Z The historical document to prove Aryabhata met them.

 

Z The meeting exactly taken place at Ponnani.

 

Z Of course, we need not worry about the safety-rider Aryabhata

" may have had access………. "

 

1. As for as the surmises that Aryabhata was excommunicated as he

observed the eclipses crossing sea and all are clear historical

idiosyncrasy (imposing later-day views on the past events) and

appear to

be based on the www.namboothri.com (I have not verified this).

 

 

 

1. I have also verified the sources available in our library on

the

subject-matter in the context and found that in a National Seminar on

Scientific Contributions of Aryabhata held in Thirivananthapuram from

12th to 13th June 1999, K. Chandra Hari presented a paper,

" Pre-Historic Indian Astronomy " (p.21 of the Abstract volume).

Inciidentally, " pre-historic " means not historical, that is

historically, whatever said is without any written document. So

scholars

have to be careful in using such expressions, as otherwise it would

convey wrong meaning to others. In the same seminar, K. V.

Ramakrishna

Rao has presented three papers as follows:

 

 

 

6 Traditions of Aryabhata and his school (p.8)

 

6 Significance of the year 499 CE in the Indian astronomy (p.9).

 

6 Kali Era – The Controversy among the Western Scholars (p.16).

 

 

 

I find in the first paper, under the caption " Aryabhata and his Four

Cities " , Mr. Rao starts with the verses (IV.9, 10, 13, 14) pointing

out that Arybhata made observations from Lanka situated on Niraksha,

where the meridian passing through Hastinapura, Ujjaini and Kumari

cuts

Lanka. I clarified from Mr. Rao, who is in Madras that they met each

other and exchanged their papers.

 

 

 

So here, where is the controversy of Brahmins crossing over seas /

oceans and their excommunication? Such idea is not all necessary for

Indian astronomers while they were going in boats and ships and

making

observations. Such passing remarks were made by the western /

westernized scholars to create a wedge between Brahmins and

non-Brahmins. So Indian scholars too need not have indulged in such

politics.

 

 

 

1. Again, all these scholars met at the " International Seminar

and Colloquim on 1500 years of Aryabhateeyam " held at

Thirivananthapuram from 12th to 16th January, in which many foreign

scholars attended including Dr. George G. Joseph, Dr,. Dennis

Almeda,

Dr. Dominic Wujastyk, Dr. Mohammed Bagheri. Mr. Rao told that

actually,

he sent two papers 1. Origin of " Aryabhata " and

" Aryabhata's School " and 2. A Critical Analysis about the

Externnal Influence on Aryabhatiyam and accepted. But, during the

conference, he found only the second paper had been listed. When

pointed

out he was given 5 minutes to present the first paper. Asked about

the

significance, he explained in the first paper, he refuted all the

hypotheses of making Aryabhata to native of Kusumapura, Pataliputra,

Asmaka, Kerala, Tamilnadu and located him in Lanka. So naturally,

they

did not like the paper to be presented.

 

 

 

Particularly, he refuted the Kerala-Tamilnadu hypothesis including

that

of K. K. Velukutty. In fact, A. K. Bag (1996) made such surmise

mentioning that Aryabhata hailed from a place near Madras, Salem

identifying Asmaka with it. His 15 pages paper gives all details.

Under

the captions " Aryabhata and His four cities " and " Aryabhata

of Midnight Astronomy " , he pointed out that Aryabhata made

observation from Lanka. Here also, Rao and Hari met and exchanged

their

papers.

 

 

 

1. Nowadays, the trend among the scholars has been that they do

not

mention or acknowledge the sources. The Indian tradition has been to

acknowledge source. Every poet or writer mention that he obtained the

knowledge from so and so mentioning his Guru / teacher etc. Even

Aryabhata do that. Getting data and information from many and using

it

as if one has obtained it to form an idea cannot be a right research

methodology.

 

 

 

1. Another trend has been not to mention sources, which are not

favorable to them. Of course, when the western scholars suppressed

and

destroyed such evidences, let us hope our Indian scholars have not

stooped down to such level, as otherwise, we may loose all existing

historical documents.

 

 

 

1. Finally, I would be happier to get opinion from Sri. R. N.

Iyengar, as he has been a highly resourceful scientist with in-depth

knowledge in Indian astronomy.

 

 

 

Sincerely yours,

 

VEDAPRAKASH,

 

Founder-Director,

 

Institute for the Study of Western Religions,

 

Chennai, Tamilnadu.

 

 

 

 

 

hinducivilization , " aareni " <aareni@> wrote:

>

> Those who like to discuss the paper or question the conclusions

> should naturally write to the editor of the Journal.

>

> RNI

> hinducivilization , " Vedaprakash "

> vedamvedaprakash@ wrote:

> >

> >

> > I have gone through the article, " Eclipse observed by Aryabhata

in

> > Kerala " as appearing in pdf.file (CURRENT SCIENCE, VOL. 93, NO.

3,

> > pp.414-418, 10 AUGUST 2007).

> >

> > 1. as I am now outside, right now, I am not able to mention a

book

> > brought out by one Keralite trying to show that Vararuci was

> Aryabhata

> > and he was a native of Kerala and so on.

> >

> > 2. That the longitude passing through Hastinapura, Ujjaini,

Kumari

> and

> > Lanka cut Niraksha has been well known.

> >

> > 3. The verse that mentions " the four cities Yavakoti, Romaka,

> Siddhapura

> > and Lanka are situated on Niraksha " is available repeatedly in

> > Siddhantic verses.

> >

> > 4. This shows that observations were made at those cities. So

> Aryabhata

> > did it from where is debatable.

> >

> > 5. How " Kumari " could be equated with " Kerala " has to be proved.

> >

> > 6. What are the sources for the " legends " depended upon? The

> > manuscripts? The date of mss etc are required.

> >

> >

> > hinducivilization , " aareni " <aareni@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Any one concerned about the history of science as developed in

> ancient

> > > India will find the recent research paper by Chandra Hari

> interesting.

> > >

> > > http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/aug102007/414.pdf

> > >

> > > Incidentally Chandra Hari was an active member on IC-group for

a

> long

> > > time

> > >

> > > RN Iyengar

> > >

> >

>

 

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