Fwd: Response by Prof Saraswat to the article on Vedic Astrology - the greatest fraud on the Vedas! by Avtar Krishen Kaul

June 20, 2007

WAVES-Vedic , subash razdan <subashrazdan

wrote:

Dear Subash,

Here are my comments about the article presented below......

While attending the annual conference of the Academy of

International Business in China in June, I had a fabulous two week

trip to Beijing and Shanghai with a group of ten faculty members

from Bentley. The trip gave us an opportunity to see the Great Wall

of China, about 80 miles north of Beijing. I want to tell you the

thought that came to my mind as I was standing on the wall after

climbing the uneven stairs for almost an hour. At the end of the

5th century AD, the Huns from Central Asia tried to attack China but

the Chinese army defeated them decisively at this 3,000 mile long

wall with fortifications at strategic places. Unfortunately, the

Huns turned westwards after their defeat in China and changed the

course of history by destroying two great empires of the ancient

times. One branch of the Huns ravaged Europe and destroyed the

Roman Empire and another branch turned towards India at the time

when the Gupta Empire was at its zenith. From their bases at Bamian

and Balkh, one of the Hun commanders, Toramana, defeated the Gupta

army and occupied Kashmir, Punjab, and Malwa, and his son,

Mihiragula, extended the Hun conquest to Gujarat. North India, as a

Hindu empire, never recovered from this disaster and the ground was

prepared for the Moslem conquest of India.

In the declining stages of the Gupta Empire, India was infested

with Ponga pundits, fortune tellers and astrologers of all kinds,

and the bewildering superstitions of the Purans had supplanted the

sublime wisdom of the Vedas.

Perhaps this is the ultimate truth of history: empires rise and

fall on the undulating waves of time, but the Chinese empire did a

better job of protecting itself by relying on its own efforts by

building the wall rather than waiting for some preternatural

interposition at the last moment, as you often see in Bollywood

movies.

After seeing Beijing and Shanghai I am convinced that the Chinese

are now building their infrastructure with the same enthusiasm that

they showed in building the Great Wall thousands of years ago.

I fully agree with the broad analysis of your friend Mr. Kaul. We

can disagree on some small facts here and there but I am deeply

impressed by the power of his arguments and the facts he has given

from our scriptures to support them. I have myself found no

astrological forecasts in the Rigveda, which I have been studying

for more than 15 years now. I will give you an example of what I

have found in the Rigveda about stars and galaxies. One of the

greatest rishis of the Vedas, Devaraata, looks at the stars and

with the childlike curiosity of ?Twinkle, twinkle little star?? he

says to himself, ?All these constellations shining so high in the

sky show up at night but I wonder where they go at daytime. The

laws of Varuna, the sacred spirit that controls the movement of

stars, are so inviolable that the moon comes at night and shines for

us.? Of course, Devaraata is composing the noble thought in

Sanskrit with the perfect measure and cadence of words of the ?

trishtubh?

meter:

?amii ya rixaa nihitaasa uchchaa naktaM dadRishre kuhachiddiveyuH

adabdhaani varuNasya vRtaani vichaakashachchandramaa naktameti? [1,

24, 10]

I was looking at the stars one night from my backyard while reciting

this mantra and as the intensity of the thought increased in my

mind, I had an authentic mystical experience. Suddenly I felt that

my physical body had disappeared and I was floating freely among the

stars and constellations as pure thought submerged in the spiritual

rays pouring through the transparent darkness of night. The sense

of delight was overwhelming and the entire experience was awe

inspiring but, unfortunately, it did not last for more than a

second. When I woke up from my trance, I realized that it was

nothing more than my silly imagination. But what a beautiful

imagination it was! I would like to repeat the experience every time

I look at the firmament at night. This to me is the Vedic

experience, not what the fortune tellers can tell me about my

future. I am convinced, just like Mr. Kaul, that unless we go back

to the bedrock principles of the Vedas and devote our energies to the

understanding of the fundamental forces that create, preserve, and

destroy the universe, nations, cultures and individuals, we are in

grave danger of becoming slaves again. One of the greatest

strengths of our culture has been that we have preserved our soul

intact through all the vicissitudes of history but, I am afraid, we

are now losing it gradually and willingly because we do not have the

learned sages of the Vedas to inspire us.

Warm regards to you.

Satya Prakash

Satya Prakash Saraswat, Ph.D.

Professor of Information and Process Management

Bentley College

175 Forest Street

Waltham, MA 02452

USA

Phone: 781-891-3104

Fax: 781-891-2949

" Vedic Astrology " - the greatest fraud on the Vedas!

Submitted by jyotirved on Sat, 2006-04-22 12:54. -->Submitted by

jyotirved on Sat, 2006-04-22 12:54.

Dear Biradari Members,

Namaskar Mahara!!

Kashmiri Pandits are as addicted to Patri Melapak (Tekini milnavuni)

as anybody else! Besides, there is hardly anyone, even if he does

not know ABC of jyotish, who does not want to know as to when his ?

badsharwar? (sade?sati) will start or end etc. etc. I have gone

through all those pangs myself and made a thorough study of all the

astrological works besides a lot of astronomical books! I even

studied Western system of astrology and had become a ?famous?

astrologer, though my predictions were as correct as anybody else?s

i.e. hardly 50%. However, this is a secret that no other ?jyotishi?

shares with anybody -- that his/her predictions are hardly more

correct than fifty per cent, whatever logic or Ayanamsha he may

use! When I analyzed the reasons for such a dismal rate of

success/failure, the conclusions were startling! And I am keeping

those very conclusions before you!

I have been asked very often whether I would prefer Western system

of predictions to the Indian system or vice-versa!

To arrive at any conclusions about such a discussion, we have to

bear the following facts in our minds:

1. Whether Indian or Western, no system of predictions has any

sanction either from the Vedas or even Puranas least of all our

dharmashastras etc.

2. All our shastras admonish us from consulting ?nakshatra

jeevis? so much so that the Manusmriti calls these nakshatrajeevis

as outcastes and not fit to sit in any sabha of learned people.

3. The Manusmriti advises that ?The king must keep a watch on his

kingdom like a heron and act with prowess like a lion? --- nowhere

has he advised to consult some soothsayer before undertaking any

activity!

4. All the Ramayanas, whether Valmiki or Adhyatma or

Ramacharitamanasa etc. etc. say that before deciding about the

coronation of Bhagwan Rama, Dashratha wanted his guru Vasishtha to

find some suitable muhurtas for that function. It was on the advice

of Bhagwan Vasishtha that Dasharatha decided to anoint the Yuvraja

the very next day, as it was ?Tishya? then. It is clear that either

Vasishtha Muni did not know as to what was going to happen to

Dasharatha by declaring Bhagwan Rama as crown-prince or he kept

quiet deliberately since he did not want to interfere in the divine

dispensation!

Obviously, being the son of Brahmaji and being a highly exalted yogi

as well as jnyani, Vasishtha-muni could peep into past as well as

future. It means that even if some exalted souls can foresee as to

what is going to happen, they do not reveal our ?bhavishya? before

hand, unlike the breed of astrologers of today, who masquerade as ?

Paasharas? and ?Vamadevas? to tell us even our past and future

janmas just by glancing at our birth-charts, even if those charts

are fundamentally incorrect.

5. Almost all the jyotishis suggest one or the other remedial

measure to their clients, and mostly these are in the form of

various gems. What is surprising is that we have become so

dimwitted that we forget our entire itihasa of our past!

(i) Why was Dasharatha not suggested some ?ruby? or ?

coral? to ward off the evil Dasha that was going to kill him when

Rama would leave for the forests?

Because our Rishis were not greedy to have claimed to cheat death by

just making him buy some gems!

(ii) Bhagwan Krishna was born in a prison --- I wonder why He

could not use some ?sapphire? to take birth in a palace!

(iii)Vasudeva and Devaki---the parents of Bhagwan Krishna--- were in

chains when He was born! It is said that Lord Krishna was a

complete ? 16 kala sampoorna --- divine incarnation of Vishnu and

was thus really Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient! He could

loosen the chains of His mother as well as father while taking birth

in a prison! He could make all the guards of Kansa?s prison fall

asleep while being taken out of prison by Vasudeva! He demonstrated

His Omnipotence by making Yamuna recede while Vasudeva was carrying

Him to Gokul from Mathura! He guided Vasudeva on his way back from

Gokul to Mathura in a dark night full of torrential rains and

storms! The guards remained asleep till Vasudeva entered the prison

after bringing Yogamaya from Mathura with him! It all shows that

Krishna was really Omnipotent!

But then the moment Vasudeva was back in prison, his fetters were

again gridlocked automatically! Same was the case with Devaki! Both

Devaki and Vasudeva remained in fetters till Kansa was killed by

Krishna!

What does it demonstrate? Just the fact that if the Omniscient,

Omnipresent and Omnipotent Krishna could not ameliorate the miseries

of His own father or mother before the appointed time, how can a

ruby or a sapphire---or some Mangala or Shani yagya--- remove all

our miseries or give us a Union Minister?s seat!

Obviously, we are being taken for a ride by such Jyotishis!

Then not in the distant past, Smti Indira Gandhi would run after

astrologers for knowing her future. She had a rare and original

ekamukhi rudraksha, which only either the Maharaja of Nepal had or

she was wearing! It is said that some top-notch jyotishis had

suggested that rudraksha to her! Ironically, both the King of Nepal

as well Mrs. Indira Gandhi were assassinated ?by the people? they ?

had trusted? ekamukhi rudraksha not withstanding!

What does it prove? That we should not be hoodwinked by soothsayers!

Then again a well known Tantrik of yore---highly respected by the

then PM--- is out on bail, not by dint of his ?Tantra-Kriya? but

because of some legal loopholes in FERA!

Dhirendra Brahmachari, another high profile ?Tantrik?, met with an

accident in the plane he was flying himself! If he could not see

his own death looming large how could he forewarn others!

6. The Gita is said to be the gist of all our shastras. When Arjuna

expressed his doubt about whether Pandavas would win or lose the

battle, Bhagwan Krishna neither asked him to consult some soothsayer

nor did He tell him to wear some ruby! On the other hand, He just

advised him to fight and either get killed on the battlefield and go

to heavens or win the battle to be the ruler of the entire earth!

What does that prove? Obviously, it warns us against relying on any

soothsayers, especially if they call themselves ?Vedic Jyotishis?

since they are taking us for a ride literally.

7. Yes, Bhagwan Ram did worship Shiva at the time of going to war at

Rameshwaram but that was not to please Mangal or Shani, but to show

respect to the divine trinity -- Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh---in

this case Vishnu worshipping Shiva!

Similarly, at the time of the Mahabharata war Arjuna was asked to

worship Maha-Shakti but not to please Rahu or Ketu but to gain

strength from his own ATMA-Shakti, in the form of Divine Shakti!

The Gita is very clear ?ye yatha mam prapadyante tanstathaiva

bajameaham? --- ?I will

?worship? you in whatever way you worship Me?.

8. There is no mention of any Rishi like Vasishtha or Garga or

Brighu ever having written any works of predictive astrology

in any of the Puranas. The Vishnu Purana by Parasharis is full of

astronomical references ---and that also sayana i.e. the seasonal

year when Mesha sankranti is another name of Spring Equinox and so

on, but we do not find any mention of any Brihat Parasharis Hora

Shastra there! Obviously, it is the worst concoction that can ever

be had, and that is why it is the bible of ?Vedic astrologers?

9. In India, we have started going downhill ever since our rulers

started runningafter Jyotishis. In ancient days, during the time of

Mahabharata, it was a dharma yudha that we had to fight against our

own Duryodhanas but ever since the advent of astrology before the

invasion of Alexander the Great, and with him the ?Yavana Jatakam?

of Sphujidwaja and the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the Yavana

(mlechha!), we had to fight outsiders! The more the outsiders

invaded us the more our rulers started consulting soothsayers whom

they called Rajyajyotishis! (In those days jyotishis did not dare

to call themselves Vedic Jyotishis since the general public was not

then that illiterate about the Vedic principles as they are thee

days, thanks to Vedic Jyotishis!)

10. These monarchs wanted to know if at all their horoscopes

indicated whether they would win or lose and for winning the

battles, instead of making military preparations they just started

wearing rubies and diamonds to ward off evil spirits!

11. The maximum credit for creating such a fear of omens and

ghosts and ghouls and storms and even clouds goes to

Varahamihira! It appears he later reincarnated as N. C. Lahiri

since both of them had their own axes to grind -- the former wanted

to make his Brihatsamhita/Brihat Jatakam and Panchasidhantika world

famous and the latter wanted to sell the maximum copies of his

Bangla Vishudha Sidhanta Panjika and ?Lahiri?s Indian Ephemeris??.

Before venturing into the battlefield, these monarchs would ask

their soothsayer to prepare ?narpati jaya charya? and consult Brihat

Samhita etc. to see whether the ?ketuchara? was favorable at that

time or not! No wonder with such a preliminary and hopeless

knowledge of astronomical facts, we were being pushed back into dark

ages by these jyotishis!

12. Our historical records are witness to the fact that we were

vanquished in every battle whether it was with Alexander the

Great or Chengiz Khan or Muhamud of Gazni or Nadir Shah or the

Moguls or finally the East India Company, thanks to the dependence

of our monarchs on soothsayers (Rajajyotishis, huh!) instead of the

principles of war strategy and statecraft as adumbrated by Chanakya,

who chided the kings for consulting soothsayers!

12. The fate of BJP has not been any better than that of our earlier

monarchs by depending more on their ?Vedic Jyotishis? who were

responsible for getting ?Vedic Jyotisha (sic!)? prescribed in Indian

Universities! It is that very move that boomeranged on the party

and even the ?Minister of astrology? did not even win his own

parliamentary seat, let alone being the Union Minister again, lest

these ?Vedic jyotishis? continued to perpetuate Adharma in the guise

of ?Vedic Jyotisha?! Do you need any other proofs of the fact that

these ?Vedic Jyotishis? are really a scourge who will make you lose

your seat of power just by making you advance your elections?

13. If we continue to follow the trend of our ?monarchs? of having

blind faith in our soothsayers, there is no doubt that sooner than

later we will become yesteryears? Babylon, which is known as Iraq

these days!

14. It was priest class i.e. Brahmins the most respected community

with whom the secrets of predictive gimmicks were supposed to

rest! Just see the plight of the Brahmin community these days!

They age treated worse than any OBC in case of government jobs and

other quotas! Why so? Simply because they lost their dharma by

being nakshatra jeevis, caring two hoots for the admonishments of

the Manu! No wonder they ? the Brahmins are not fit for being

consulted in any sabha of scholars!

15. I must put on record that as a Kashmiri Pandit, I have more

to blame predictive gimmicks and soothsayers, including the

panchanga makers, than anything or anybody else since they never ?

forearmed? (their pet dialogue is ?forewarned is forearmed!)us about

any calamities that were going to befall us! On the other hand,

just to prove their astrological gimmicks, they just made ---and are

still making --- us celebrate all our festivals, including

Mahashivaratri on wrong days. It is these very jyotishis, whom we

had treated as our friends, philosophers and guides, who are

responsible for our downfall as Kahsmiri Pandits, since they proved

neither our friends, nor philosophers least of all our guides!

These Panchanga makers/jyotishis were the first to flee from

Kashmir --- like the king Hari Sigh at the time of Pakistani raid

in 1948 (hope he had consulted his ?rajajyotishi? to decide the

muhurtas for taking the last flight to Jammu/Mumbai)----since they

had already

made their alternate homes in safer places like Jammu and Delhi

They just proved to be Shylocks, who were only interested in their

Pound of flesh by way of Dakshinas for janmapatris and panchangas

and matching of horoscopes -- all cheating and nothing else!

16. These soothsayers have such a hypnotic grip on us that

initially even I was brain washed to believe that the Vedas had

nothing else to tell us excepting teaching us predictive astrology!

I was also so convinced that it appeared that even the principle of

Secondary Progressions must have been exported from India to Western

countries since the principle of ?A day equals a year? was mentioned

in our Vedas!

17. However, there are neither rashis like Mesha etc. nor planets

like Mangal, Shani etc.

in the Vedas, Upanishads, Brahmanas etc. etc. Similarly, Vedanga

Jyotisha, as has been made clear several times already, is an

astronomical work of 14th century BCE and tells us as to how to

calculate mean tithi, nakshatra and Uttarayana-cum-Tapah-cum Magha

etc. months. It does not list any rashis nor any planets like

Mangal, Budha etc. Same is the case with Yajur Jyotisha of about

11th century BCE and later Atharva Jyotisha of about 5th century

BCE. As such, it is really a fraud on the Vedas being played by

some charlatans to call any predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology

and hail themselves ?Vedic Jyotishis?. It is equally a crime under

Consumer Protection Act since it is a misrepresentation of facts to

a client and is thus a deficiency in service.

18.It is being said that Sir Isaac Newton believed in astrology!

That just is not possible! The astronomical ephemeredes, from

which horoscopes are made, were so incorrect that ?Horary Astrology?

by a world famous Western astrologer, William Lilly, of 17th

century, published by American Federation of Astrologers, has the

planetary positions of all the charts incorrect! He was a

contemporary of Sir Isaac Newton, and thus even if Newton had wanted

to believe in predictive astrology, he could never have done so

since the astronomical works of that period were fundamentally

incorrect as they were mostly based on Ptolemy?s Almagest!

In other words, the astronomical works of the West were hardly

better than the Surya Sidhanta or Aryabhati of India!

19.Similarly, Albert Einstein is supposed to have believed in

astrology! Dr. B. V. Raman has not said so anywhere in his ?world

famous? book ?Notable Horoscopes? while discussing the horoscope of

Einstein! Similarly, there has been no such indication in any of

the astrological magazines which normally jump on such hearsays to

encash them! It maybe mentioned here that even in the ?Notable

Horoscopes? hardly any chart even of the 20th century is correct,

leave alone the charts of Bhagwan Krishna or Gautama the Budha or

Shankaracharya! There is also a difference of heaven and earth in

the planetary longitudes of the same work in a consolidated form

given at pages 426 to 431 and the main charts given in the chart

form! Even the chart of the erstwhile editor of the Astrological

Magazine viz. Dr. B. V. Raman himself given at page No. 401 is

incorrect! And he was supposed to be the ?greatest Vedic astrologer?

of the twentieth century but surprisingly, could not calculate

even his own horoscope properly!

Same is the case with the chart No. 74, which is actually the

chart of the spouse of Dr. B. V. Raman! The planetary longitudes on

that page do not at all tally with the ones given at page 470 in the

same book!

And the delineations of all such charts are correct! In other

words, ?Vedic astrology? can make correct predictions only from

incorrect data!

20. We have demonstrated it practically through ?Mahesh? that it

is impossible for any astrological predictions to have been correct

in the past either based as they were on the data from the Surya

Sidhanta or Aryabhati or Brahma Sphuta Sidhanta or Sidhanta

Shiromani ----whether they were supposed to be so called nirayana or

so called sayana! But then may be that is the beauty of predictive

astrology -- whether ?Vedic? or ?not-so-Vedic? --- to make correct

predictions from incorrect data!

21. Predictive astrology is supposed to be a ?science?! What a

preposterous statement! When the data on which predictions were

based or are based these days are not correct, how can the results

be correct and how can we draw correct inferences when we have not

made correct observations at all!

22. It is said that stars affect us! It appears either these

astrologers have gone honkers themselves or they suppose that all

the world has really gone mad! Let us see how:

I am a tiny human being on this small planet called earth. The sun

is hundreds of thousands of times larger than the earth! And there

are other stars of our nakshatra/rashichakra that are supposed to

affect me individually as per the Dasha-Bhukti that is running in my

horoscope! However, this fantastic statement has no leg to stand

upon since the nearest star of that Rashichakra is Alpha Aquilae

which is known as Shravana in Sanskrit! And do you know its distance

from me? It is seventeen light years! And it is several times

larger than our sun! In other words, if that star wants to ?affect?

me individually, it will take it at least seventeen years to do so

even if that ?effect? travels at the speed of light! And by then,

my Rahu or Shani or whatever Dasha it may be must have been over!

Then how can such a star which is trillions of times larger than me

send its rays in a concentrated from just to haunt me at a

particular point of time! Can you imagine what type of laughing

stocks we are making of ourselves by believing in such hocus pocus!

Similarly, the next nearest star of our Rashichakra is Alpha Bootis

known as Swati in Sanskrit! It is away by 26 light years from me

and is again several times larger than our sun!!

It thus defies imagination as to how a scientist like Albert

Einstein could have made a statement like ?stars affect us?! I m

sure he could not have been cowed down by the special ?aura? or ?

halo? which these ?Jyotishis? are supposed to have since that is

only to befool simpletons like ignorant adivasis!

Secondly, by quoting Newton and Einstein, these ?Vedic Jyotishis?

are themselves proving that they have no common sense at all! If at

all these two scientists did claim to believe in astrology, they

would have believed in Western system since there was no ?Vedic

Jyotish? around those days! And these two systems are just

antitheses to one another ? they cannot be integrated at any point

of time since if my sayana moon is in Vrisha, my nirayana moon is in

Mesha and so on! Similarly, there are no Dasha bhuktis in the

Western system nor is there any Sade-Sati etc. Thus whatever

support they try to muster for their preposterous claims goes in

fact against the very grain of their own arguments!

23. It is being said that quite a few Western ?Vamadevas? and

other ?Rishis? have started believing in ?Vedic Jyotish?. We

must not forget that Westerners like their Eastern counter-parts are

interested in earning a few bucks the quickest way! Just by reading

a few books by Dr. B. V. Raman or K. N. Rao etc. etc. and the much

touted ?Brihat Parashara Hora Shastram? they can declare themselves

as qualified ?Vedic astrologers? It is immaterial if they cannot

pronounce even the words of shantipath like ?poornam adah poornam

idam? properly or correctly, leave alone understanding their

meaning, but then we have become so blind because of greed and

avarice that we just let them masquerade as ?Vamadevas? and ?

Parasharas?. This can happen only with Hindu religion, which we are

supposed to defend! Why don?t these ?Vamadevas? proclaim themselves

to be re-incarnations of Jesus Christ or St. Paul or St. John and so

on! We have already a glut of so many incarnations like Radha

and Dattatreya and so on and so forth that we hardly need imported

Vamadevas! Thus instead of preserving our cultural integrity, we are

appreciating the efforts of ?Vedic Jyotishi East India Company? to

help us disintegrate our own culture by propagating some non-sense

called ?Vedic Jyotish? in overseas countries as well as in India.

I do not know how many times I will have to repeat it that

predictive gimmicks are against the letter as well as spirit of the

Vedas, Puranas, Itihasas and Smritis and therefore, have to be

shunned at the earliest! And naturally, these imported ?Vamadevas?

are just jugglers who have no other motives but to make fools of us

and make us deviate from our cultural heritage, pretending as if

they are propagating it!

24.I have yet to receive any response to my challenge to all these

jyotishis to quote even a single reference from any of our shastras

which has advised us to marry only after matching horoscopes! Leave

alone shastras, they cannot quote anything even from their own ?

Jyotisha bibles?. What type of experts are these ?Vamadevas? and ?

Parasharas? and ?Varahamihiras? if they cannot vindicate their

statements/stands even by a single shastric text?

Do you need any other proofs to understand that you are really being

made a fool by these jyotishis?

The last nail in the coffin of astrological gimmicks is the chart

for the new lunar year! It has been proved by me already quoting

all the relevant Vedas and shastras that the current lunar New Year

started on February 28, 2006, with the topocentric New Moon for

Delhi at exactly 5hrs 0mts IST. But then all the vernacular papers,

apart from astrological magazines, are making predictions for the

new year on the basis of a lunar New Year supposed to start from

March 30, 2006, with the chart for New Moon being prepared for 15hrs

45 mts. IST on March 29, 2006. In fact that is the time of

Geocentric New Moon for an imaginary ?centre of the earth? whereas

the actual time of topocentric New Moon for Delhi on that date is

17hrs 26 mts. IST!

You can see it for yourself that not only is the very date of the

New Year chart for a wrong date ? March 29 instead of February 28,

but even the timing of erecting that chart is based on a geocentric

New Moon instead of the New Moon with parallax corrections for

Delhi, which is known as topocentric phenomenon!

But then, as usual, these jyotishis will claim to have made correct

predictions for our ?matribhoomi? i.e. Bharatavarsha since, even at

the cost of repeating a statement for the umpteenth time, these

Vedic jyotishis can make correct predictions only from fundamentally

incorrect data!

In view of the above discussion, it is clear that predictive

gimmicks have no basis either as per the shastras or modern

sciences. It is immaterial whether these predictive techniques are

of Indian system ? euphemistically known as ?Vedic Jyotisha? or

Western system. On the other hand, the so called Vedic Jyotisha has

made us celebrate all our festivals on wrong days and the earlier we

shun it the better so that we can start using a seasonal year for

deciding our fasts, fairs, festivals and muhurtas.

When are you going to do that?

With kind regards,

Avtar Krishen Kaul

PS. For complete details and a free program to calculate planetary

data from 10001 BC to 12030 AD, please log on to:

HinduCalendar

Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out.

--- End forwarded message ---

June 21, 2007

Namaskaar Friends,Below is my simple reply to Sri Avtar Kishen Kaul, who has been harping about Astrology not being Vedic. I have replied but only for the information of my Vedic Astrology friends. My reply to him is in Blue color.

1. Whether Indian or Western, no system of predictions has any

sanction either from the Vedas or even Puranas least of all our

dharmashastras etc. (BHARAT start)I see you have a wrong meaning of Vedic Astrology. Predictions isn't Vedic Astrology. Indications are. The fundamental cause and effect relationship exists and that is what is to be indicated for a said karma. Kindly read the following:

Vedanga refers to those bodies of knowledge

that are the " limbs " to the Vedas. In other words, it aids in

understanding of the Vedas.It would be important to understand

what Vedas are. The word " Veda " means knowledge. Vedas contain

aphorisms to understand the true identity of ourselves. Many people

think Vedas are part of Hindu Religion. It would correct to say that

Hindu Religion has adopted itself from the Vedas. Vedas are universal

and came before the word " Hindu " came into being.Jyotish is a

Vedanga and in its approach it follows the Vedic teaching. Jyotish

cannot go against the Vedas in its teaching or analysis.Jyotish

follows the principle of freedom of choice. It gives individuals the

right to choose in any given situation. The choices always available to

an individual in any given situation of life are:1. To react (anger, jealousy, envy, fear, fight, arrogance, likes, dislikes, etc.)2. To pro act (do one's action as required by the call of duty, without involving oneself in the above reactions).

3. Remain calm without any action (Realizing the results are given by the lord, and accepting them without any reaction)The

2nd choice has all the elements of the 3rd choice. Jyotish as a subject

never undermines these choices. With these choices, one can change

one's future. With the first choice, one can enhance the difficulties

in one's destiny and with, the second and third choice; one can enhance

the quality of destiny in happiness and success. Each time you make the

2nd or 3rd choice, you weaken the reactions within yourself. Over a

period of time, you stop reacting at all. Jyotish understands this

principle and employs it.Jyotish never promises a pre destined

life. Mother, father, brother, sister may be predestined but not your

future. Your future depends upon the choices. (BHARAT end)

2. All our shastras admonish us from consulting ?nakshatra

jeevis? so much so that the Manusmriti calls these nakshatrajeevis

as outcastes and not fit to sit in any sabha of learned people.(BHARAT start)Manu smriti also talks a lot about treatment of women, etc. I am sure you do not follow the same. (BHARAT end)

3. The Manusmriti advises that ?The king must keep a watch on his

kingdom like a heron and act with prowess like a lion? --- nowhere

has he advised to consult some soothsayer before undertaking any

activity!(BHARAT start)People do quote from books that they themselves do not follow, just to drill a point. I take it that you did the same.

(BHARAT end)